Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[svpegasus38]

Bruce,FWIW, Not sure if Soltron it is the same as the Star brite stuff, but 
the bottles are the same. I have use Soltron for years with no issues. I change 
my filters every 2 years ( when I think about it). I see very little water or 
other stuff in my filters. I have no way to see inside my tank, so I can only 
guess the stuff works. Doug MountjoyPegasusLF38
T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network.



-- Original message--From: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List Date: Mon, Jan 
30, 2017 17:30To: C List;Cc: Bruce Whitmore;Subject:Stus-List Anyone had 
experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?
Out of an abundance of caution, given that the boat I am buying has been 
started, but not substantially run (other than for our survey) for about 5 
years, I would like to be extra-cautious about potential fuel tank 
contamination.
I think that the tank is about half-full.  At the suggestion of one of our 
contributors here, I will patch in a 12v. pump and recirculate the fuel through 
my Racor filter for a number of hours in an attempt to polish the fuel.
That said, do you think I am better off trying to burn off the old fuel as much 
as possible before putting in new (if of course the engine appears to be 
running well), or dillute the old stuff with new?
Finally, does anyone here have experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank 
Cleaner?  While its NOT cheap, I'd rather start off with as clean a fuel system 
as possible.  The reviews seem to be good (and Practical Sailor rated their 
biocide highly), but I don't believe everything I read on the 'net... :)  

Thanks in advance! Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Three responding questions...  

Does anyone know how easy or difficult it might be to get the tank out of a 
37/40+?

Is there an access port?

Is the tank baffled?

Bruce

Please forgive any typos as this was sent from my iPhone.

> On Jan 30, 2017, at 10:44 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> As I recall, most marine diesels recirculate 5-7 times consumption.  Even at 
> 1 gph usage that's not much flow back to the tank.  Not nearly enough to 
> agitate the tank.
> 
> A buddy of mine tried to motor his boat to the Gulf Coast in some rough seas. 
>  Had to return due to blinding fuel elements.  The local yard did a 
> recirculate and clean on his tank.  Next day he tried again in rough seas 
> with the same result.
> 
> If the "pro" doesn't have the right equipment, knowledge and technique, 
> you're wasting time and money.
> 
> FYI, Touche' had been idle for 10+ years when I bought it.  When I dug into 
> the fuel system, I didn't just yank the tank and clean it, I REPLACED it with 
> a new one.  After repowering with a diesel, Touche' now has an Algae-X and a 
> vacuum gauge on the Racor 500.  Fuel issues are one thing I never worry about.
> 
> Dennis C.
> 
>> On Jan 30, 2017 7:39 PM, "Josh Muckley via CnC-List"  
>> wrote:
>> Dennis,
>> 
>> I've watched for return flow from the injectors and been quite disappointed. 
>>  Hardly any and certainly not enough to suggest that it is "recirculating" 
>> the tank.
>> 
>> I hear what you're saying regarding the agitation not being sufficient.  Its 
>> always a question in my mind of just how bad is it in there?  Is nothing 
>> coming out cause its clean or cause its stuck?
>> 
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD 
>> 
>> On Jan 30, 2017 9:28 PM, "Dennis C. via CnC-List"  
>> wrote:
>> I have little faith in recirculating fuel to clean it.  IMHO, if it is not 
>> strongly agitated, sediments will remain in the corners of the tank.  The 
>> first encounter with rough seas and you will blind your fuel filter quickly.
>> 
>> The best solution is to either remove the tank and clean it.  Second best is 
>> to drainit, install a fuel compatible access port in the top and clean it 
>> manually.  Third, have a professional clean it with a high velocity wand 
>> inserted through the fuel sensor port.
>> 
>> If you can't do any of those and choose to recirculate it using the engine, 
>> install an Algae-X unit ahead of the fuel filter.
>> 
>> http://www.diesel-fuels.com/algae-x/magnetic-fuel-conditioning.php
>> 
>> Install a vacuum gauge downstream of your fuel filter to give you warning 
>> when the element is beginning to blind.  If you have a Racor 500, get the 
>> vacuum gauge that replaces the T-handle.
>> 
>> Carry lots of spare fuel filter elements.
>> 
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>> 
>> On Jan 30, 2017 6:30 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" 
>>  wrote:
>> Out of an abundance of caution, given that the boat I am buying has been 
>> started, but not substantially run (other than for our survey) for about 5 
>> years, I would like to be extra-cautious about potential fuel tank 
>> contamination.
>> 
>> I think that the tank is about half-full.  At the suggestion of one of our 
>> contributors here, I will patch in a 12v. pump and recirculate the fuel 
>> through my Racor filter for a number of hours in an attempt to polish the 
>> fuel.
>> 
>> That said, do you think I am better off trying to burn off the old fuel as 
>> much as possible before putting in new (if of course the engine appears to 
>> be running well), or dillute the old stuff with new?
>> 
>> Finally, does anyone here have experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank 
>> Cleaner?  While its NOT cheap, I'd rather start off with as clean a fuel 
>> system as possible.  The reviews seem to be good (and Practical Sailor rated 
>> their biocide highly), but I don't believe everything I read on the 'net... 
>> :)  
>> 
>> Thanks in advance!
>>  
>> Bruce Whitmore
>> 
>> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
>> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
>> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
>> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All Contributions 

Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

As I recall, most marine diesels recirculate 5-7 times consumption.  Even
at 1 gph usage that's not much flow back to the tank.  Not nearly enough to
agitate the tank.

A buddy of mine tried to motor his boat to the Gulf Coast in some rough
seas.  Had to return due to blinding fuel elements.  The local yard did a
recirculate and clean on his tank.  Next day he tried again in rough seas
with the same result.

If the "pro" doesn't have the right equipment, knowledge and technique,
you're wasting time and money.

FYI, Touche' had been idle for 10+ years when I bought it.  When I dug into
the fuel system, I didn't just yank the tank and clean it, I REPLACED it
with a new one.  After repowering with a diesel, Touche' now has an Algae-X
and a vacuum gauge on the Racor 500.  Fuel issues are one thing I never
worry about.

Dennis C.

On Jan 30, 2017 7:39 PM, "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" 
wrote:

> Dennis,
>
> I've watched for return flow from the injectors and been quite
> disappointed.  Hardly any and certainly not enough to suggest that it is
> "recirculating" the tank.
>
> I hear what you're saying regarding the agitation not being sufficient.
> Its always a question in my mind of just how bad is it in there?  Is
> nothing coming out cause its clean or cause its stuck?
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
> On Jan 30, 2017 9:28 PM, "Dennis C. via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
> I have little faith in recirculating fuel to clean it.  IMHO, if it is not
> strongly agitated, sediments will remain in the corners of the tank.  The
> first encounter with rough seas and you will blind your fuel filter quickly.
>
> The best solution is to either remove the tank and clean it.  Second best
> is to drainit, install a fuel compatible access port in the top and clean
> it manually.  Third, have a professional clean it with a high velocity wand
> inserted through the fuel sensor port.
>
> If you can't do any of those and choose to recirculate it using the
> engine, install an Algae-X unit ahead of the fuel filter.
>
> http://www.diesel-fuels.com/algae-x/magnetic-fuel-conditioning.php
>
> Install a vacuum gauge downstream of your fuel filter to give you warning
> when the element is beginning to blind.  If you have a Racor 500, get the
> vacuum gauge that replaces the T-handle.
>
> Carry lots of spare fuel filter elements.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Jan 30, 2017 6:30 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Out of an abundance of caution, given that the boat I am buying has been
> started, but not substantially run (other than for our survey) for about 5
> years, I would like to be extra-cautious about potential fuel tank
> contamination.
>
> I think that the tank is about half-full.  At the suggestion of one of our
> contributors here, I will patch in a 12v. pump and recirculate the fuel
> through my Racor filter for a number of hours in an attempt to polish the
> fuel.
>
> That said, do you think I am better off trying to burn off the old fuel as
> much as possible before putting in new (if of course the engine appears to
> be running well), or dillute the old stuff with new?
>
> Finally, does anyone here have experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel
> Tank Cleaner?  While its NOT cheap, I'd rather start off with as clean a
> fuel system as possible.  The reviews seem to be good (and Practical Sailor
> rated their biocide highly), but I don't believe everything I read on the
> 'net... :)
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Bruce Whitmore
>
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[RANDY via CnC-List]

I'd really like to thank everyone for all the responses on this. 

Went back to the boat today and carefully re-examined the core around the 
chainplate cutouts, and did a bunch of testing - percussion testing, weighting 
the area and looking for deflection, etc. Put a few pictures up at 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTcTV6UlEwMmlqZkk . 

I don't think the extent of coring warrants peeling the top skin and replacing 
core material; I think digging out some core around the edges, and filling with 
thickened epoxy, will be enough of an improvement and repair. The deck, 
especially outboard and downslope of the chainplate cutouts, doesn't sound dull 
and doesn't deflect downward. It seems solid enough. 

The chainplates themselves show no signs of corrosion or moisture damage. Only 
one bolt (lowest inboard starboard) out of 14 showed any rust, and it was 
superficial (nowhere near twisting the head off). I'm fortunate that my boat 
has had a freshwater life its entire life. 

You can see in the pictures I've got a bit more old sealant to clean away, but 
then I think a dig, fill, and re-seal job should suffice. Really appreciate 
everyone's responses. Someday I'll need to work up the courage to do a peel & 
re-core job under my starboard aft bow pulpit foot - I have a small soft spot 
there. 

Best Regards, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "Dave S via CnC-List"  
To: "C Stus List"  
Cc: "Dave S"  
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 9:43:00 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates 


FWIW, and I agree with much below. Will assume you are dealing with balsa and 
not plywood as a core. Have repaired both and will share the following, YMMV, 
etc... Probably way too much info, but: 

1) Damp balsa does not mean structurally unsound (yet) 

2) I prefer to remove more rather than less. This allows you a large enough 
area to work, makes it easy to clean/prep the surfaces, as well as being 
certain that you are not building any voids into the finished result. You can 
also use really thick glass-loaded epoxy that simply cannot be injected into a 
small hole. As with drywall/sheetrock, it is sometimes easier when doing 
repairs to give yourself space to work, and to prep the surfaces. 

3) I like the hole saw approach, cutting through one skin only. The hole saw 
also allows you the opportunity to install a structural filler piece, well 
bedded in glass-filled epoxy. Rather than just troweling in the schmutz. you 
can laminate a sheet of fibreglass into a high density layup of the appropriate 
thickness, (even tapered, or curved) then use the same hole saw to cut out a 
"puck" from that sheet and install into the hole. Bulletproof. 

4) IMO Working from below is best if you have the space/access, for a number of 
reasons, including the fact that any holes won't move. Working from above can 
be easier, though the cosmetic redemption is harder. 

5) Epoxy is available in a range of cure times. "hot in the pot" should not be 
an issue if you pick the right one. Never had that happen, but I have had it 
get a little warm and further shorten the cure time. (have had polyester resin 
get pretty hot) 

6) To make a patch that feathers on the edges, laminate progressively smaller 
pieces of cloth (alternate mat and cloth with polyester resin, I like biaxial 
stitch mat with epoxy) on a sheet of waxed paper, then lift that and stick it 
onto the wound like a bandaid, peeling off the waxed paper. Best is to do this 
(or any sequential application of epoxy) on top of the previous epoxy 
application while it is at its B stage (gelled but not cured) Not only is the 
putty still it pliable, but it will not need prep to achieve a good chemical 
bond. You can not simply epoxy over top of cured epoxy and expect a bond. 
(google "amine blush") 

7) when done, (but not cured) you can carefully lay some PE film (or waxed 
paper) over top and smooth. this can help tame any stray edges and depending on 
the repair, actually functions a bit like a vacuum bag, assisting in adhesion 
to curves. You can also shape any putty into smooth shapes or radii for a more 
professional result. 

8) Read up on fillers. If you expect to fill space, you don't want the epoxy to 
flow, you need colloidal silica, If you want it to be strong you need to load 
with glass, you want to sand it microspheres. (don't put yourself in the 
position of having to sand the structural part of a repair) 

9) make a notched trowel and use appropriate fillers for fairing/finishing. The 
notches leave little ridges in the epoxy. Sand those off and stop. 

OK, that's enough... 

Dave 


-- Forwarded message -- 
From: < cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com > 
Date: 30 January 2017 at 09:25 
Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 132, Issue 70 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 


Send CnC-List mailing list submissions 

Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[Dan Grant via CnC-List]

I drain my tank every year and put it into my home heating oil tank adding 
fresh just before recommissioning  
then new filters  
The boat sat on the hard for 6 years before this and I've never had a problem 
Dan Grant
Puffin 
1970 corvette 
Ipswich am 
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 30, 2017, at 8:29 PM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Out of an abundance of caution, given that the boat I am buying has been 
> started, but not substantially run (other than for our survey) for about 5 
> years, I would like to be extra-cautious about potential fuel tank 
> contamination.
> 
> I think that the tank is about half-full.  At the suggestion of one of our 
> contributors here, I will patch in a 12v. pump and recirculate the fuel 
> through my Racor filter for a number of hours in an attempt to polish the 
> fuel.
> 
> That said, do you think I am better off trying to burn off the old fuel as 
> much as possible before putting in new (if of course the engine appears to be 
> running well), or dillute the old stuff with new?
> 
> Finally, does anyone here have experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank 
> Cleaner?  While its NOT cheap, I'd rather start off with as clean a fuel 
> system as possible.  The reviews seem to be good (and Practical Sailor rated 
> their biocide highly), but I don't believe everything I read on the 'net... 
> :)  
> 
> Thanks in advance!
>  
> Bruce Whitmore
> 
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List]

Five year old fuel in a half-empty tank.  I concur with Dennis’ best solution.  
Nothing worse than an engine that won’t run when you need it.

From: Dennis C. via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 9:27 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank 
Cleaner?

I have little faith in recirculating fuel to clean it.  IMHO, if it is not 
strongly agitated, sediments will remain in the corners of the tank.  The first 
encounter with rough seas and you will blind your fuel filter quickly. 

The best solution is to either remove the tank and clean it.  Second best is to 
drainit, install a fuel compatible access port in the top and clean it 
manually.  Third, have a professional clean it with a high velocity wand 
inserted through the fuel sensor port.

If you can't do any of those and choose to recirculate it using the engine, 
install an Algae-X unit ahead of the fuel filter.

http://www.diesel-fuels.com/algae-x/magnetic-fuel-conditioning.php


Install a vacuum gauge downstream of your fuel filter to give you warning when 
the element is beginning to blind.  If you have a Racor 500, get the vacuum 
gauge that replaces the T-handle.

Carry lots of spare fuel filter elements.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Jan 30, 2017 6:30 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List"  
wrote:

  Out of an abundance of caution, given that the boat I am buying has been 
started, but not substantially run (other than for our survey) for about 5 
years, I would like to be extra-cautious about potential fuel tank 
contamination.

  I think that the tank is about half-full.  At the suggestion of one of our 
contributors here, I will patch in a 12v. pump and recirculate the fuel through 
my Racor filter for a number of hours in an attempt to polish the fuel.

  That said, do you think I am better off trying to burn off the old fuel as 
much as possible before putting in new (if of course the engine appears to be 
running well), or dillute the old stuff with new?

  Finally, does anyone here have experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank 
Cleaner?  While its NOT cheap, I'd rather start off with as clean a fuel system 
as possible.  The reviews seem to be good (and Practical Sailor rated their 
biocide highly), but I don't believe everything I read on the 'net... :)  


  Thanks in advance!

  Bruce Whitmore

  (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
  bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net


  ___

  This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

  All Contributions are greatly appreciated!






___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Dennis,

I've watched for return flow from the injectors and been quite
disappointed.  Hardly any and certainly not enough to suggest that it is
"recirculating" the tank.

I hear what you're saying regarding the agitation not being sufficient.
Its always a question in my mind of just how bad is it in there?  Is
nothing coming out cause its clean or cause its stuck?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Jan 30, 2017 9:28 PM, "Dennis C. via CnC-List" 
wrote:

I have little faith in recirculating fuel to clean it.  IMHO, if it is not
strongly agitated, sediments will remain in the corners of the tank.  The
first encounter with rough seas and you will blind your fuel filter quickly.

The best solution is to either remove the tank and clean it.  Second best
is to drainit, install a fuel compatible access port in the top and clean
it manually.  Third, have a professional clean it with a high velocity wand
inserted through the fuel sensor port.

If you can't do any of those and choose to recirculate it using the engine,
install an Algae-X unit ahead of the fuel filter.

http://www.diesel-fuels.com/algae-x/magnetic-fuel-conditioning.php

Install a vacuum gauge downstream of your fuel filter to give you warning
when the element is beginning to blind.  If you have a Racor 500, get the
vacuum gauge that replaces the T-handle.

Carry lots of spare fuel filter elements.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Jan 30, 2017 6:30 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Out of an abundance of caution, given that the boat I am buying has been
started, but not substantially run (other than for our survey) for about 5
years, I would like to be extra-cautious about potential fuel tank
contamination.

I think that the tank is about half-full.  At the suggestion of one of our
contributors here, I will patch in a 12v. pump and recirculate the fuel
through my Racor filter for a number of hours in an attempt to polish the
fuel.

That said, do you think I am better off trying to burn off the old fuel as
much as possible before putting in new (if of course the engine appears to
be running well), or dillute the old stuff with new?

Finally, does anyone here have experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel
Tank Cleaner?  While its NOT cheap, I'd rather start off with as clean a
fuel system as possible.  The reviews seem to be good (and Practical Sailor
rated their biocide highly), but I don't believe everything I read on the
'net... :)

Thanks in advance!

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!



___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I have little faith in recirculating fuel to clean it.  IMHO, if it is not
strongly agitated, sediments will remain in the corners of the tank.  The
first encounter with rough seas and you will blind your fuel filter quickly.

The best solution is to either remove the tank and clean it.  Second best
is to drainit, install a fuel compatible access port in the top and clean
it manually.  Third, have a professional clean it with a high velocity wand
inserted through the fuel sensor port.

If you can't do any of those and choose to recirculate it using the engine,
install an Algae-X unit ahead of the fuel filter.

http://www.diesel-fuels.com/algae-x/magnetic-fuel-conditioning.php

Install a vacuum gauge downstream of your fuel filter to give you warning
when the element is beginning to blind.  If you have a Racor 500, get the
vacuum gauge that replaces the T-handle.

Carry lots of spare fuel filter elements.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Jan 30, 2017 6:30 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

Out of an abundance of caution, given that the boat I am buying has been
started, but not substantially run (other than for our survey) for about 5
years, I would like to be extra-cautious about potential fuel tank
contamination.

I think that the tank is about half-full.  At the suggestion of one of our
contributors here, I will patch in a 12v. pump and recirculate the fuel
through my Racor filter for a number of hours in an attempt to polish the
fuel.

That said, do you think I am better off trying to burn off the old fuel as
much as possible before putting in new (if of course the engine appears to
be running well), or dillute the old stuff with new?

Finally, does anyone here have experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel
Tank Cleaner?  While its NOT cheap, I'd rather start off with as clean a
fuel system as possible.  The reviews seem to be good (and Practical Sailor
rated their biocide highly), but I don't believe everything I read on the
'net... :)

Thanks in advance!

Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

FYI that engine burns roughly 1 gallon per hour and the fuel tank capacity
is roughly 40 gallons.  So you're potentially facing a considerable amount
of run time just to get rid of the old fuel.

After recircing it for the desired time, you might just consider disposing
of the fuel.  It can usually be disposed of the same as any used motor oil.

I would be torn about wasting all that fuel and would base my decision on
how bad the results of the recirc were.  I'd also consider how well the
engine runs on the old fuel and how much you actually have.  A quarter tank
(10 gal) of fuel is at lot less to dilute out than 3/4 of a tank (30 gal).

For the delivery trip you would be well served by keeping a 5 gallon jerry
can of diesel and ~10ft of 1/4 inch fuel hose.  If something goes wrong you
you can plumb a suction from the fresh diesel can.  Just in case.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD

On Jan 30, 2017 8:30 PM, "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Out of an abundance of caution, given that the boat I am buying has been
> started, but not substantially run (other than for our survey) for about 5
> years, I would like to be extra-cautious about potential fuel tank
> contamination.
>
> I think that the tank is about half-full.  At the suggestion of one of our
> contributors here, I will patch in a 12v. pump and recirculate the fuel
> through my Racor filter for a number of hours in an attempt to polish the
> fuel.
>
> That said, do you think I am better off trying to burn off the old fuel as
> much as possible before putting in new (if of course the engine appears to
> be running well), or dillute the old stuff with new?
>
> Finally, does anyone here have experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel
> Tank Cleaner?  While its NOT cheap, I'd rather start off with as clean a
> fuel system as possible.  The reviews seem to be good (and Practical Sailor
> rated their biocide highly), but I don't believe everything I read on the
> 'net... :)
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Bruce Whitmore
>
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Anyone had experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank Cleaner?

[Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List]

Out of an abundance of caution, given that the boat I am buying has been 
started, but not substantially run (other than for our survey) for about 5 
years, I would like to be extra-cautious about potential fuel tank 
contamination.
I think that the tank is about half-full.  At the suggestion of one of our 
contributors here, I will patch in a 12v. pump and recirculate the fuel through 
my Racor filter for a number of hours in an attempt to polish the fuel.
That said, do you think I am better off trying to burn off the old fuel as much 
as possible before putting in new (if of course the engine appears to be 
running well), or dillute the old stuff with new?
Finally, does anyone here have experience with Starbrite Star Tron Fuel Tank 
Cleaner?  While its NOT cheap, I'd rather start off with as clean a fuel system 
as possible.  The reviews seem to be good (and Practical Sailor rated their 
biocide highly), but I don't believe everything I read on the 'net... :)  

Thanks in advance! Bruce Whitmore

(847) 404-5092 (mobile)
bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
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Stus-List Deck core repair

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I've done several deck "peels" and core replacement.  One was about 3' x 5' 
(yes, feet).  

Chain plate repair can be thought of as a tiny peel.  Mark the bedding plate 
then use a vibrating saw to cut the deck inside the mark. More room to work to 
remove wet core. 

You can choose to replace the core cut out or simply fill level with deck. The 
bedding plate will hide it. 

Dennis C.

Sent from my iPhone
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Stus-List Aluminum/stainless corrosion - unscientific test

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

I've had the pleasure of removing mast mounted winches that may have been
in place for 27 years.  Stainless bolts and aluminum mounting plates.

I used various combinations of PB Blaster, Kroil and vinegar, along with
heat and a prybar to loosen the bolts.

I then took 3 of the bolts and dropped them in cups of vinegar, Kroil and
PB Blaster to see what happened.  The vinegar showed immediate results
(it's clear), but after 20 minutes all three bolts were nearly clean.

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Dave S via CnC-List]

FWIW, and I agree with much below.  Will assume you are dealing with balsa and 
not plywood as a core.   Have repaired both and will share the following, YMMV, 
etc...  Probably way too much info, but:

1)   Damp balsa does not mean structurally unsound (yet)  

2)  I prefer to remove more rather than less.This allows you a large enough 
area to work, makes it easy to clean/prep the surfaces, as well as being 
certain that you are not building any voids into the finished result.   You can 
also use really thick glass-loaded epoxy that simply cannot be injected into a 
small hole.   As with drywall/sheetrock, it is sometimes easier when doing 
repairs to give yourself space to work, and to prep the surfaces.  

3)  I like the hole saw approach, cutting through one skin only.   The hole saw 
also allows you the opportunity to install a structural filler piece, well 
bedded in glass-filled epoxy.  Rather than just troweling in the schmutz. you 
can laminate a sheet of fibreglass into a high density layup of the appropriate 
thickness, (even tapered, or curved) then use the same hole saw to cut out a 
"puck" from that sheet and install into the hole.  Bulletproof.  

4)  IMO Working from below is best if you have the space/access, for a number 
of reasons, including the fact that any holes won't move.   Working from above 
can be easier, though the cosmetic redemption is harder.

5)  Epoxy is available in a range of cure times."hot in the pot" should not 
be an issue if you pick the right one.  Never had that happen, but I have had 
it get a little warm and further shorten the cure time.   (have had polyester 
resin get pretty hot)

6)   To make a patch that feathers on the edges, laminate progressively smaller 
pieces of cloth (alternate mat and cloth with polyester resin, I like biaxial 
stitch mat with epoxy) on a sheet of waxed paper, then lift that and stick it 
onto the wound like a bandaid, peeling off the waxed paper.Best is to do 
this (or any sequential application of epoxy) on top of the previous epoxy 
application while it is at its B stage (gelled but not cured)   Not only is the 
putty still it pliable, but it will not need prep to achieve a good chemical 
bond.  You can not simply epoxy over top of cured epoxy and expect a bond.  
(google "amine blush")

7)  when done,  (but not cured)  you can carefully lay some PE film (or waxed 
paper) over top and smooth.  this can help tame any stray edges and depending 
on the repair, actually functions a bit like a vacuum bag, assisting in 
adhesion to curves.  You can also shape any putty into smooth shapes or radii 
for a more professional result.  

8)  Read up on fillers. If you expect to fill space, you don't want the epoxy 
to flow, you need colloidal silica, If you want it to be strong you need to 
load with glass, you want to sand it microspheres.   (don't put yourself in the 
position of having to sand the structural part of a repair) 

9)   make a notched trowel and use appropriate fillers for fairing/finishing.   
The notches leave little ridges in the epoxy.   Sand those off and stop. 

OK, that's enough...

Dave


-- Forwarded message --
From: 
Date: 30 January 2017 at 09:25
Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 132, Issue 70
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com


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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Deck Coring Around Chainplates > Chainplates (Danny Haughey)
   2. Re:  Deck Coring Around Chainplates > Chainplates (Danny Haughey)
   3. Re:  Deck Coring Around Chainplates (Hoyt, Mike)


-- Forwarded message --
From: Danny Haughey 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: 
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2017 09:08:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates > Chainplates
Hi randy,

It seems you are definitely going in the right direction.  I had a problem like 
this on one of my old boats but, under the bow rail feet.  I traced out the 
size of the plate and oped things up a bit with a hole saw to give deeper 



>>>snip




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Re: Stus-List Pulling rod chainplate backing block on LF38

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Patrick — I wonder if the “orangey” stuff you saw is the same stuff they used 
between the headliner and the cabin top; some sort of liquid adhesive.  Sounds 
a lot like what I’ve found in the headliner of my boat.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

> On Jan 30, 2017, at 9:23 AM, Patrick Davin via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Progress! Just to follow up in case anyone's interested or for future 
> reference, I managed to get one U-Bolt out. I wrote a blog post on the 
> methods and results: 
> https://svviolethour.com/2017/01/29/rerig-part-4-stuck-navtec-u-bolt-chainplates/
>  
> 
> 
> tldr: Lots of heat plus a 24" pry bar / breaker bar. 
> 
> I found an Ericson owner who used a similar method - shroud tension plus 
> heat. He thinks shroud tension was around 1000 lbs, but he had 3/8" Navtec 
> u-bolts. Using a lever arm calculator, I calculated the upward force it took 
> on my 1/2" bolts was around 2000 lbs. 
> 
> Interesting aspects once I got it out: lots of aluminum corrosion dust from 
> the backing block, but the SS was spotless. Bedded in butyl, not silicone. 
> And the deck core here was not wood! Some kind of hard composite I don't 
> recognize - light orange / peachy in color. Very good news because the core 
> is pristine.
> 
> I doubt it's an epoxy coring from a prior owner (since A) it's doesn't look 
> like epoxy, and B) the bolts looked like they'd never been pulled). Around 
> each U-Bolt the deck has square area about 8"x8" where it's clear something 
> different was inserted between the fiberglass. I thought it was marine ply, 
> but I guess they could've used some kind of board of composite or plastic. 
> 
> The one question I haven't figured out yet is, if the U-bolts were not 
> leaking (I've never observed water from them, even in heavy rains), how did 
> the aluminum corrosion happen? I suspect small moisture over time (interior 
> cabin moisture?  Or small amounts getting in from deck while under sail when 
> the u-bolts are under flexion / tension?) contributed to it. Just need a 
> small amount of moisture to get a galvanic medium on the less noble aluminum 
> next to the SS. The material loss is insignificant however. 
> 
> -Patrick
> 1984 C LF38

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Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Hi Danny

Yes.  After three layers cloth and then the core in place I did fill the 
cavities surrounding the new core with thickened epoxy (or if using Polyester 
with thickened polyester).  I used West 406 which I believe is colida silica 
(spelling).  This has adhesive properties and I hoped was a bit stronger.  
After that was the next layers of cloth saturated with resin and the final skim 
coats I used a sandable filler such as West 407 in the epoxy.

The main difference around the chainplate area was that we needed to leave 
holes for the chainpates.  To do this I coated the chain plates with Vaseline 
as a release agent  (I think that is what I used) and put the chainplates in 
place.  The core material ended approx. one inch from the chainplates on all 
sides and I filled in the gap with epoxy thickened with filler.  Once the area 
was built up to deck devel I used a hammer and a block of wood to knock the 
chainplates out and then went on to the normal sanding procedure followed by 
painting.  It did not leak after that on either boat and with the area 
surrounded by epoxy I am confident the core could not get wet

As I said before.  This was a relatively simple job.

Mike

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Danny 
Haughey via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 11:30 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Danny Haughey
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates


mike,

you shared that link before and I never get bored going to look at it!!  That 
is a great job!

I thin one needs to get past the fear of opening up what needs to be opened on 
a project like that.  Going a little extra isn't really any more work.

What did you do for the voids around the new coring, just fill with the 
epoxy/filler?

Danny

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Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

mike,

you shared that link before and I never get bored going to look at it!!  
That is a great job!


I thin one needs to get past the fear of opening up what needs to be 
opened on a project like that.  Going a little extra isn't really any 
more work.


What did you do for the voids around the new coring, just fill with the 
epoxy/filler?


Danny


On 1/30/2017 9:25 AM, Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List wrote:


Hi Randy

The first step you should have done is to determine the extent of the 
wetness.  It is likely a lot more extensive than you would at first 
believe.  I would seek out a local resource (surveyor or boatbuilder) 
and have them map out the wet area for you.  Remember these are old 
boats and the moisture has had a long time to spread.  The second 
thing you should know is that a wet deck does not normally feel at all 
spongy. This only occurs on a severely rotted area


The good news is that this is a very simple repair and one that you 
can easily do yourself.  It is also not very expensive. I have recored 
around the chainplates on my two previous boats.  On our Niagara 26 a 
very experienced boatbuilder (who incidentally purchased and resold a 
number of C 30-1) showed me how to do this.  He routinely did this 
on boats he was reselling.  My first instinct was to just dig out 
around the chainplates but he used his moisture meter and hammer and 
mapped out the wet areas as approx. 3 ft by 1 ft on each side.  The 
repair was completed and it looked no different than the rest of the deck.


The process I used for replacing wet and rotted deck coring is 
documented on my current boat web page.  This was from our J27 “Nut 
Case”.  I also have a page that documents the chainplate area recoring 
on the same boat but that is not currently on the web site and I am 
having a bit of difficulty connecting to upload it.  I will post to 
this group with a note to you once I get it back on the web. 
Unfortunately I only have so much space allotted and cannot leave 
everything online.


The link to deck recore replacement can be found on this page 
http://users.eastlink.ca/~mhoyt/j27_index.html 
 The process for the 
chainplate area is basically the same.


Regards

Mike

Persistence

Halifax, NS

http://users.eastlink.ca/~mhoyt 

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*RANDY via CnC-List

*Sent:* Sunday, January 29, 2017 6:48 PM
*To:* cnc-list
*Cc:* RANDY
*Subject:* Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

Listers-

We're having a spate of nice weather here in Denver - supposed to be 
sunny all week and 61 degrees tomorrow (yes, in late January / early 
February).


So today I pulled the chainplates on my 1972 C 30 MK I as part of a 
planned rebedding job (I confirmed leaks down the chainplates last 
year).  Unfortunately after removing all old sealant I found some wet 
and rotten wood core material between the outer and inner deck skins 
around the chainplate cutout holes.


Now I want to solicit the list's collective wisdom on how to deal with 
this the right way.  The lazy approach would be to just reinstall the 
chainplates and inject new sealant all around, including into the void 
between deck skins where rotten core came out, butting up against 
remaining (and possibly still wet) core.


On the other hand I've read everything Don Casey has to say about 
cored deck repair.  I could consider removing core around all sides of 
the cutout, about a half-inch back from each edge, using a bent nail 
chucked into a power drill.  Then I could fill those voids with 
thickened epoxy to the edges of the cutout, and then re-bed the 
chainplates.


The extreme end of the spectrum would be to try to map out the area of 
wet core e.g. perhaps from the outboard edge of the chainplate cutout 
all the way to the toe rail, then remove and replace the damaged core. 
 However that seems like a huge and complicated job, and I don't think 
the wet area is that large.  I haven't noticed any softness or 
squishiness around the chainplates at all, but I can percussion-test 
it carefully.


In the meantime I'm letting those areas dry out by leaving the 
chainplates out and exposing those areas to the dry Colorado air.  I 
may go pour some acetone in those voids too, since Don Casey 
identifies that as a core-drying technique.


I'm leaning towards the void-filling approach.  What do you think?

Thanks,

Randy Stafford

S/V Grenadine

C 30-1 #7

Ken Caryl, CO



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Re: Stus-List Pulling rod chainplate backing block on LF38

[Patrick Davin via CnC-List]

Progress! Just to follow up in case anyone's interested or for future
reference, I managed to get one U-Bolt out. I wrote a blog post on the
methods and results:
https://svviolethour.com/2017/01/29/rerig-part-4-stuck-navtec-u-bolt-chainplates/

tldr: Lots of heat plus a 24" pry bar / breaker bar.

I found an Ericson owner who used a similar method - shroud tension plus
heat. He thinks shroud tension was around 1000 lbs, but he had 3/8" Navtec
u-bolts. Using a lever arm calculator, I calculated the upward force it
took on my 1/2" bolts was around 2000 lbs.

Interesting aspects once I got it out: lots of aluminum corrosion dust from
the backing block, but the SS was spotless. Bedded in butyl, not silicone.
And the deck core here was not wood! Some kind of hard composite I don't
recognize - light orange / peachy in color. Very good news because the core
is pristine.

I doubt it's an epoxy coring from a prior owner (since A) it's doesn't look
like epoxy, and B) the bolts looked like they'd never been pulled). Around
each U-Bolt the deck has square area about 8"x8" where it's clear something
different was inserted between the fiberglass. I thought it was marine ply,
but I guess they could've used some kind of board of composite or plastic.

The one question I haven't figured out yet is, if the U-bolts were not
leaking (I've never observed water from them, even in heavy rains), how did
the aluminum corrosion happen? I suspect small moisture over time (interior
cabin moisture?  Or small amounts getting in from deck while under sail
when the u-bolts are under flexion / tension?) contributed to it. Just need
a small amount of moisture to get a galvanic medium on the less noble
aluminum next to the SS. The material loss is insignificant however.

-Patrick
1984 C LF38

On Sun, Jan 22, 2017 at 6:44 PM, Patrick Davin  wrote:

> I haven't had any luck unfortunately. I'm probably going to give up for
> now and put it back together. It sounds like only about 2 LF38 owners on
> this list have pulled their rod U-bolts, so I guess it's a less common
> thing than I expected.
>
> I put about 6-8 hours into one U-bolt over 2 weeks, spraying the aluminum
> backing block with vinegar 5-10 times, PB Blaster 3-4 times, BoatLife
> Release 2-3 times. I hammered in a paint scraper on the 2 accessible sides,
> and then hammered in a cold chisel on one side. That opened a bit of a gap,
> but it was starting to tear into the fiberglass. I hammered upwards on the
> thrubolts too but the access isn't very good. Also heated with a heat gun
> until PB Blaster started smoking.
>
> There's no way to inject stuff from above deck because the U-bolt plate is
> completely flush with the deck - I can't even get a razor blade in. Unless
> I sanded off the deck paint perhaps.
>
> I put some pictures here: https://drive.google.
> com/drive/folders/0BxfHpwssU_6NTlRNbXUtSHAtaWc?usp=sharing
>
> I'm half way tempted to just leave the nuts loosened by 1/8 of an inch and
> go sailing in 10 knots or so on a few tacks once the rig is back. I bet
> that might loosen it up. Or maybe just tensioning to 1000-2000 lbs would do
> it.
>
> -Patrick
> 1984 C LF38
>
> On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Patrick Davin  wrote:
>
>> Thanks. I'll try the vinegar technique. I also have some BoatLife
>> Release, but was hesitant to try that because the seam will be difficult to
>> inject into, and the Release chemical is fairly toxic I believe.
>>
>> I have no leaking from above deck, so I probably won't be able to inject
>> anything from above. I'm only opening / inspecting to confirm it's not
>> leaking, and because I have the mast out now.
>>
>> I too had some white dust float down when I loosened the threaded rod.
>>
>> I'll try tapping up on the bolts too.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 9:19 AM, Bruno Lachance <
>> bruno_lacha...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick,
>>>
>>> I have faced the same kind of problem on my boat. It is not exactly the
>>> same style of chainplate, but the 33 mkII does have the same aluminum
>>> backing block, and it was not moving. I initially tried the wedge, the
>>> hammer... With no success. There was some white powder visible, sign of
>>> aluminum corrosion. I finally had success with white vinegar, injected with
>>> a syringe where I can, from the top of the deck and from below, and a
>>> soaked rag taped around the block. I repeated this procedure twice and
>>> wait... The day after, I was able to separate everything with a small tap
>>> on the bolt, clean and reassemble with good quality butyl. I was happy to
>>> find that the core was not exposed around the chainplate.
>>>
>>> Good luck.
>>>
>>> Bruno Lachance
>>> Becassine, 1987 33mkII
>>> New- Richmond, Qc.
>>>
>>>
>>> Envoyé de mon iPad
>>>
>>> Le 8 janv. 2017 à 11:45, Patrick Davin via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> a écrit :
>>>
>>> Anyone have experience pulling this style of chainplate? Photo uploaded
>>> here: 

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List]

Hi Randy

The first step you should have done is to determine the extent of the wetness.  
It is likely a lot more extensive than you would at first believe.  I would 
seek out a local resource (surveyor or boatbuilder) and have them map out the 
wet area for you.  Remember these are old boats and the moisture has had a long 
time to spread.  The second thing you should know is that a wet deck does not 
normally feel at all spongy.  This only occurs on a severely rotted area

The good news is that this is a very simple repair and one that you can easily 
do yourself.  It is also not very expensive.  I have recored around the 
chainplates on my two previous boats.  On our Niagara 26 a very experienced 
boatbuilder (who incidentally purchased and resold a number of C 30-1) showed 
me how to do this.  He routinely did this on boats he was reselling.  My first 
instinct was to just dig out around the chainplates but he used his moisture 
meter and hammer and mapped out the wet areas as approx. 3 ft by 1 ft on each 
side.  The repair was completed and it looked no different than the rest of the 
deck.

The process I used for replacing wet and rotted deck coring is documented on my 
current boat web page.  This was from our J27 “Nut Case”.  I also have a page 
that documents the chainplate area recoring on the same boat but that is not 
currently on the web site and I am having a bit of difficulty connecting to 
upload it.  I will post to this group with a note to you once I get it back on 
the web.  Unfortunately I only have so much space allotted and cannot leave 
everything online.

The link to deck recore replacement can be found on this page 
http://users.eastlink.ca/~mhoyt/j27_index.html  The process for the chainplate 
area is basically the same.

Regards

Mike
Persistence
Halifax, NS
http://users.eastlink.ca/~mhoyt


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of RANDY via 
CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 6:48 PM
To: cnc-list
Cc: RANDY
Subject: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

Listers-

We're having a spate of nice weather here in Denver - supposed to be sunny all 
week and 61 degrees tomorrow (yes, in late January / early February).

So today I pulled the chainplates on my 1972 C 30 MK I as part of a planned 
rebedding job (I confirmed leaks down the chainplates last year).  
Unfortunately after removing all old sealant I found some wet and rotten wood 
core material between the outer and inner deck skins around the chainplate 
cutout holes.

Now I want to solicit the list's collective wisdom on how to deal with this the 
right way.  The lazy approach would be to just reinstall the chainplates and 
inject new sealant all around, including into the void between deck skins where 
rotten core came out, butting up against remaining (and possibly still wet) 
core.

On the other hand I've read everything Don Casey has to say about cored deck 
repair.  I could consider removing core around all sides of the cutout, about a 
half-inch back from each edge, using a bent nail chucked into a power drill.  
Then I could fill those voids with thickened epoxy to the edges of the cutout, 
and then re-bed the chainplates.

The extreme end of the spectrum would be to try to map out the area of wet core 
e.g. perhaps from the outboard edge of the chainplate cutout all the way to the 
toe rail, then remove and replace the damaged core.  However that seems like a 
huge and complicated job, and I don't think the wet area is that large.  I 
haven't noticed any softness or squishiness around the chainplates at all, but 
I can percussion-test it carefully.

In the meantime I'm letting those areas dry out by leaving the chainplates out 
and exposing those areas to the dry Colorado air.  I may go pour some acetone 
in those voids too, since Don Casey identifies that as a core-drying technique.

I'm leaning towards the void-filling approach.  What do you think?

Thanks,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO
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Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates > Chainplates

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

oh,  and be careful with the volume of epoxy you mix up in one pot.  
larger amounts kick of pretty fast and REALLY hot!!  Ask me how I know 
that!  That same boat had wet deck round a 4" vent somebody installed by 
simply jig sawing the opening and caulking the vent down, the moisture 
got pretty deep too.  That was big void and I mixed what thought was an 
appropriate amount.  that stuff kicked off and almost burned my hands it 
was so hot I had to drop it and it melted the plastic container i was 
using for a pot.  you could mix smaller amounts in separate pots to 
avoid this issue but, it made the deck really hot too.  I think the 
amount I mixxed would have been about a 3rd or maybe a 1/2 of one of 
those plastic quart containers you get at the deli.  (we do dumb things 
sometimes... this is how we learn!!  LOL)


Danny


On 1/30/2017 8:31 AM, Nauset Beach via CnC-List wrote:


Randy,

When I rebed my chainplates 2 years ago – had to dig out the wet balsa 
and replace with epoxy using the chainplates wrapped in wax paper as 
plugs / forms – found the chainplates themselves were quite corroded 
on the back side which was against the bulkhead.  Several of the 
stainless bolts were severely rusted and the chainplates had tiny 
cracks fully through the metal at the bolt holes.  Had new chainplates 
fabricated.


As you are in fresh water it may not be as much of an issue, but if 
your boat lived much of its life in saltwater previously, there may be 
damage to the metal.  Make sure you closely examine the chainplates 
for any corrosion!


Brian

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*RANDY via CnC-List

*Sent:* Sunday, January 29, 2017 10:05 PM
*To:* cnc-list 
*Cc:* RANDY 
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

Thanks Dennis (and Gary and Sam).  Let me see where I stand on Tuesday 
- I may be ready to epoxy if I can do the bent nail and acetone thing 
tomorrow.  Let's call or text on Tuesday.


Gary - my chainplate covers are aluminum and still in good shape, just 
needed a really good cleaning (probably 44 years' worth of various 
sealant jobs built up on their undersides).


Sam - yes my chainplates bolt to fiberglass "knees" tabbed to the 
hull.  And the chainplates and knees are in good shape - no sign of 
weakening from exposure to moisture.  I just want to make sure I do a 
proper job of sealing it all up so I don't get more coring in the deck 
going forward.  Unfortunately it looks like my boat's previous owners 
didn't do a proper job (e.g. per Don Casey's prescriptions) of keeping 
this area sealed, and a little bit of coring occurred.  The starboard 
side was all gooped up with clear silicone, and the port side had an 
ineffective bead of white caulk around the edge of the cover, and both 
sides had hard-as-rock probably original white-colored sealant under 
those other sealants.


I'll be using polysulfide (Life Caulk) per Don Casey for the 
re-bedding sealant.


Cheers,

Randy



*From: *"Dennis C. via CnC-List" >

*To: *"cnc-list" >
*Cc: *"Dennis" >
*Sent: *Sunday, January 29, 2017 4:30:09 PM
*Subject: *Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

Randy,

You're on the right track.  Wish I'd known you were doing that, I 
would have stopped by and taken a peek.  I'm back up in the mountains now.


If it was me, I'd remove the wet core as far back as I could with bent 
nail, etc., dry it with acetone and/or heat gun, tape the area, inject 
some neat epoxy until it was level with the deck, use bent nail to 
agitate it then quickly suck out the epoxy. That will coat the exposed 
surfaces so the thickened epoxy will bond better.  Then I'd inject 
thickened epoxy, let it cure and re-install the chalnplates. Don't 
forget to chamfer the hole so the bedding plate doesn't sit down on a 
square edged cut.


I'm headed back down to the airport Tuesday afternoon. Got to pick up 
my ski buddies Wednesday morning. I might be able to swing by the dry 
storage on the way.


Dennis C.



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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates > Chainplates

[Danny Haughey via CnC-List]

Hi randy,

It seems you are definitely going in the right direction.  I had a 
problem like this on one of my old boats but, under the bow rail feet.  
I traced out the size of the plate and oped things up a bit with a hole 
saw to give deeper access.  This aloowed me to get a more substantial 
tool in there that the bent nail or allen key. That metod is fine if 
your water intrusion is kind enough to be in a perfect circle that 
exactly the same depth as your nail or allen key.  Otherwise, it gets 
caught, bends, twists, rips the drill out of your hands if your not 
ready for it.  It just isn't really that great in practice, at least it 
wasn't for me.  I ended up, doing the hole saw and got an old screw 
driver, I didn't mind bending, (you could also get some cheapies from 
harbor freight or the like) and started digging.  This also give you a 
better feel for the density of the wood your digging at.  You can 
actually feel the difference between soggy, moist and dry on the screw 
driver.  I then let it sit open for s few weeks.  If you have this 
luxury it would be best.  if not, heat guns and the like work pretty 
good but, I'd say the more time you can allow will be a benefit.  After 
drying, I think you have all the techique you need already offered to 
fill it all back in.


Now, Bedding, I would urge you to read this article by MaineSail from 
compass marine.


http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/rebedding_hardware

This guy is is a bit of a scientist.  he does real world experiments and 
bases his opinions on his findings.  Whenever I have to tackle a new 
project, I go to his site to see if he's done a write up first.  Lots of 
photos and insights and pros and cons to all his recommendations.  I 
have never been disappointed following his techniques.


Danny

On 1/30/2017 8:31 AM, Nauset Beach via CnC-List wrote:


Randy,

When I rebed my chainplates 2 years ago – had to dig out the wet balsa 
and replace with epoxy using the chainplates wrapped in wax paper as 
plugs / forms – found the chainplates themselves were quite corroded 
on the back side which was against the bulkhead.  Several of the 
stainless bolts were severely rusted and the chainplates had tiny 
cracks fully through the metal at the bolt holes.  Had new chainplates 
fabricated.


As you are in fresh water it may not be as much of an issue, but if 
your boat lived much of its life in saltwater previously, there may be 
damage to the metal.  Make sure you closely examine the chainplates 
for any corrosion!


Brian

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*RANDY via CnC-List

*Sent:* Sunday, January 29, 2017 10:05 PM
*To:* cnc-list 
*Cc:* RANDY 
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

Thanks Dennis (and Gary and Sam).  Let me see where I stand on Tuesday 
- I may be ready to epoxy if I can do the bent nail and acetone thing 
tomorrow.  Let's call or text on Tuesday.


Gary - my chainplate covers are aluminum and still in good shape, just 
needed a really good cleaning (probably 44 years' worth of various 
sealant jobs built up on their undersides).


Sam - yes my chainplates bolt to fiberglass "knees" tabbed to the 
hull.  And the chainplates and knees are in good shape - no sign of 
weakening from exposure to moisture.  I just want to make sure I do a 
proper job of sealing it all up so I don't get more coring in the deck 
going forward.  Unfortunately it looks like my boat's previous owners 
didn't do a proper job (e.g. per Don Casey's prescriptions) of keeping 
this area sealed, and a little bit of coring occurred.  The starboard 
side was all gooped up with clear silicone, and the port side had an 
ineffective bead of white caulk around the edge of the cover, and both 
sides had hard-as-rock probably original white-colored sealant under 
those other sealants.


I'll be using polysulfide (Life Caulk) per Don Casey for the 
re-bedding sealant.


Cheers,

Randy



*From: *"Dennis C. via CnC-List" >

*To: *"cnc-list" >
*Cc: *"Dennis" >
*Sent: *Sunday, January 29, 2017 4:30:09 PM
*Subject: *Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

Randy,

You're on the right track.  Wish I'd known you were doing that, I 
would have stopped by and taken a peek.  I'm back up in the mountains now.


If it was me, I'd remove the wet core as far back as I could with bent 
nail, etc., dry it with acetone and/or heat gun, tape the area, inject 
some neat epoxy until it was level with the deck, use bent nail to 
agitate it then quickly suck out the epoxy. That will coat the exposed 
surfaces so the thickened epoxy will bond better.  Then I'd inject 
thickened epoxy, let it cure and re-install the chalnplates. Don't 
forget to chamfer the 

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates > Chainplates

[Nauset Beach via CnC-List]

Randy,

 

When I rebed my chainplates 2 years ago – had to dig out the wet balsa and 
replace with epoxy using the chainplates wrapped in wax paper as plugs / forms 
– found the chainplates themselves were quite corroded on the back side which 
was against the bulkhead.  Several of the stainless bolts were severely rusted 
and the chainplates had tiny cracks fully through the metal at the bolt holes.  
Had new chainplates fabricated.  

 

As you are in fresh water it may not be as much of an issue, but if your boat 
lived much of its life in saltwater previously, there may be damage to the 
metal.  Make sure you closely examine the chainplates for any corrosion!  

 

Brian

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of RANDY via 
CnC-List
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 10:05 PM
To: cnc-list 
Cc: RANDY 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

 

Thanks Dennis (and Gary and Sam).  Let me see where I stand on Tuesday - I may 
be ready to epoxy if I can do the bent nail and acetone thing tomorrow.  Let's 
call or text on Tuesday.

 

Gary - my chainplate covers are aluminum and still in good shape, just needed a 
really good cleaning (probably 44 years' worth of various sealant jobs built up 
on their undersides).

 

Sam - yes my chainplates bolt to fiberglass "knees" tabbed to the hull.  And 
the chainplates and knees are in good shape - no sign of weakening from 
exposure to moisture.  I just want to make sure I do a proper job of sealing it 
all up so I don't get more coring in the deck going forward.  Unfortunately it 
looks like my boat's previous owners didn't do a proper job (e.g. per Don 
Casey's prescriptions) of keeping this area sealed, and a little bit of coring 
occurred.  The starboard side was all gooped up with clear silicone, and the 
port side had an ineffective bead of white caulk around the edge of the cover, 
and both sides had hard-as-rock probably original white-colored sealant under 
those other sealants.

 

I'll be using polysulfide (Life Caulk) per Don Casey for the re-bedding sealant.

 

Cheers,

Randy

 

  _  

From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List"  >
To: "cnc-list"  >
Cc: "Dennis"  >
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 4:30:09 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

 

Randy,

 

You're on the right track.  Wish I'd known you were doing that, I would have 
stopped by and taken a peek.  I'm back up in the mountains now.

 

If it was me, I'd remove the wet core as far back as I could with bent nail, 
etc., dry it with acetone and/or heat gun, tape the area, inject some neat 
epoxy until it was level with the deck, use bent nail to agitate it then 
quickly suck out the epoxy.  That will coat the exposed surfaces so the 
thickened epoxy will bond better.  Then I'd inject thickened epoxy, let it cure 
and re-install the chalnplates.  Don't forget to chamfer the hole so the 
bedding plate doesn't sit down on a square edged cut.

 

I'm headed back down to the airport Tuesday afternoon.  Got to pick up my ski 
buddies Wednesday morning. I might be able to swing by the dry storage on the 
way.

 

Dennis C.

 

___

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates

[John Rand via CnC-List]

Hi Randy,

I've been thinking about this myself.

I have a 35 Mk II, which came out of the egg in 1974.  It was not well
cared for.

When I examined the chain plates, everything looked OK.  But I decided to
remove them anyway, as there was some leaking, just as you have.  When I
went to remove the ss bolts, they twisted off in the wrench, completely
rusted through inside the fiberglass knees - a possible dismasting waiting
to happen!

I did follow the Don Casey prescription of digging out about a half inch of
core where the chain plate goes through the deck, filled the hole with
thickened resin and sealed the aluminum cover with 3M 4000.  This fixed the
leaks.  However, I'm not absolutely positive this was the right thing to
do.  I think what I should have done was to drill test holes around the
suspect area, and then removed the top layer of fiberglass, and replaced
the core.  I think the real problem is that once moisture gets into the
core, it has no way to get out, and will eventually travel.  I don't know
if I had thought about that at the time.  Maybe I just didn't want to think
about it!

John
C 35 MkII
Wit's End

St. Petersburg FL

On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 7:52 AM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> If you don't have a bent nail, an Allen wrench works as well.
>
> Andy
> C 40
> Peregrine
>
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI
> USA02840
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
>
> On Jan 29, 2017, at 22:05, RANDY via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> Thanks Dennis (and Gary and Sam).  Let me see where I stand on Tuesday - I
> may be ready to epoxy if I can do the bent nail and acetone thing
> tomorrow.  Let's call or text on Tuesday.
>
> Gary - my chainplate covers are aluminum and still in good shape, just
> needed a really good cleaning (probably 44 years' worth of various sealant
> jobs built up on their undersides).
>
> Sam - yes my chainplates bolt to fiberglass "knees" tabbed to the hull.
> And the chainplates and knees are in good shape - no sign of weakening from
> exposure to moisture.  I just want to make sure I do a proper job of
> sealing it all up so I don't get more coring in the deck going forward.
> Unfortunately it looks like my boat's previous owners didn't do a proper
> job (e.g. per Don Casey's prescriptions) of keeping this area sealed, and a
> little bit of coring occurred.  The starboard side was all gooped up with
> clear silicone, and the port side had an ineffective bead of white caulk
> around the edge of the cover, and both sides had hard-as-rock probably
> original white-colored sealant under those other sealants.
>
> I'll be using polysulfide (Life Caulk) per Don Casey for the re-bedding
> sealant.
>
> Cheers,
> Randy
>
> --
> *From: *"Dennis C. via CnC-List" 
> *To: *"cnc-list" 
> *Cc: *"Dennis" 
> *Sent: *Sunday, January 29, 2017 4:30:09 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates
>
> Randy,
>
> You're on the right track.  Wish I'd known you were doing that, I would
> have stopped by and taken a peek.  I'm back up in the mountains now.
>
> If it was me, I'd remove the wet core as far back as I could with bent
> nail, etc., dry it with acetone and/or heat gun, tape the area, inject some
> neat epoxy until it was level with the deck, use bent nail to agitate it
> then quickly suck out the epoxy.  That will coat the exposed surfaces so
> the thickened epoxy will bond better.  Then I'd inject thickened epoxy, let
> it cure and re-install the chalnplates.  Don't forget to chamfer the hole
> so the bedding plate doesn't sit down on a square edged cut.
>
> I'm headed back down to the airport Tuesday afternoon.  Got to pick up my
> ski buddies Wednesday morning. I might be able to swing by the dry storage
> on the way.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Jan 29, 2017 3:48 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List" 
> wrote:
>
> Listers-
>
> We're having a spate of nice weather here in Denver - supposed to be sunny
> all week and 61 degrees tomorrow (yes, in late January / early February).
>
> So today I pulled the chainplates on my 1972 C 30 MK I as part of a
> planned rebedding job (I confirmed leaks down the chainplates last year).
> Unfortunately after removing all old sealant I found some wet and rotten
> wood core material between the outer and inner deck skins around the
> chainplate cutout holes.
>
> Now I want to solicit the list's collective wisdom on how to deal with
> this the right way.  The lazy approach would be to just reinstall the
> chainplates and inject new sealant all around, including into the void
> between deck skins where rotten core came out, butting up against remaining
> (and possibly still wet) core.
>
> On the other hand I've read everything Don Casey has to say about cored
> deck repair.  I could consider removing core around all sides of the
> cutout, about