Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

To check voltage drop:
On the positive side, one lead on the + of the start battery and one lead on 
the connection of the battery cable to the starter.
On the minus side, one lead on the – of the start battery and one lead on a 
clean metal surface on the starter itself.
Start the engine and note the reading while cranking.
Joe
Coquina

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Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Good to see progress wade.   Some comments:

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 28, 2019, at 12:21 AM, Wade Glew  wrote:
> 
> So a little update re the electrical issues on Oh Boy.  
> 
> battery (Batt 2) at 12.7 V.  Each of the four Trojans in Batt1 bank measured 
> 6.41V.   

Good
> 
> adding labels to them for future reference. 

Good - are you learning to read the factory schematic diagram?  It’s a very 
useful map. 


> Except for the starter 12V battery, all connections felt tight with no 
> surface corrosion (for whatever that's worth)


> including the grounds on the engine block. 


> I then took apart the starter 12V battery connections, cleaned the terminals 
> then stripped the wires and added new connectors. 

The factory terminations are generally quite reliable, more so than typical 
hand crimped connections. .  For sure replace a problem connection but you’re 
likely ok to leave well enough alone (clean it) if it’s in good condition. 


> Used the Tef Gel (thanks for that recommendation Dennis C) and now the 
> starter battery and charging system seem to work perfectly.  

You should see over 13.5 volts when charging, 14.5 ish when the alternator is 
charging.
> 
> Curiously, I could not find a ground wire from the starter to the engine 
> ground so I

The engine and its various bits are a lump of metal and are ‘grounded’ via the 
big battery negative attached to the transmission.  All good.

Starter solenoid ground braid - 
Clean if absolutely necessary and leave it.  

> I , every since I've had the boat, pressing the starter button sometimes 
> produces a click but does not engage the starter.  Two or three tries usually 
> makes the starter engage and the engine then starts just fine.  

Keep at what you are doing and Make sure you check the connections at the 
engine control panel as well.  (Easy) This was a problem on mine, and I had to 
repair a diy termination plus I found some loose terminal screws.   It had 
created an intermittent issue with the key switch. 

> 
> After all this, the engine starts but still feels sluggish to turn over so i 
> think, as Garry suggested, there were two problems.  I arter 12V battery but 
> which of the four Trojan negative terminals would I put the Voltmeter on or 
> does it matter?  

Make sure all those connections are sound.
Which battery Doesn’t matter provided those connections are sound.  Just get a 
big alligator clip for your ‘ -‘ probe lead, clamp it to a good ground.

Your voltage at rest is one thing, voltage (and current) under load another.   
(Fred mentions this below - adequate current) Make sure your batteries are 
topped up with distilled water.  How old are they?  


> 
> .  I might try the ground behind the starter as Dave S recommended first,
  Critical termination, somewhat dissimilar metals conducting electricity,  
heat, high vibration   what could possibly go wrong?   ;-)

Have fun.

Dave   
> 
> Wade
> Oh Boy 33 MK II
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 8:32 AM Dave S  wrote:
>> Good luck with the troubleshooting.  
>> Can’t recall if I responded with this but some 33-2 electrical info and 
>> photos here
>> 
>> http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html?m=1
>> 
>> Dave 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 14, 2019, at 8:46 AM, Wade Glew  wrote:
>>> 
>>> thank you to all who responded to my email.  I wont be back to the boat for 
>>> a couple of weeks but you've all given me lots of information and 
>>> suggestions of a plan to go forwards.  Thanks again, will let you know how 
>>> it goes
>>> Wade 
>>> Oh Boy C 33 MK II
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 9:31 PM Garry Cross via CnC-List 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> My 2 cents. 
>>>> Sounds to me like two different bad connections. There is a bad 
>>>> connection, likely ground path on Batt 2, just the load of the normal 
>>>> house circuits cannot flow through it. For Batt 1 it sounds like another 
>>>> bad connection but the house circuit does not draw enough current to drop 
>>>> the voltage enough that things stop working but the start current drops 
>>>> the voltage to much. It's all about ohm's law. I = V/R or V = I*R. So with 
>>>> low amps there is less voltage drop over a bad connection. Raise the 
>>>> current and you produce more voltage drop. Push 1 amp through a 6 ohm 
>>>> resistance and your gonna drop 6V.  Put a voltmeter there with no load it 
>>>> will read 12V. 
>>>> Another way, put a voltmeter between the battery - terminal and the + at 
>>>> the starter. It likely will read 12v. If you hit the start button and the 
>>>> volta

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Wade Glew via CnC-List]

So a little update re the electrical issues on Oh Boy.

As suggested by Josh, I bought and figured out (mostly) how to use a
multimeter.  I measure (no load and rested) my starter battery (Batt 2) at
12.7 V.  Each of the four Trojans in Batt1 bank measured 6.41V.

I was a little gun shy to start taking things apart so I first spent a few
hours crawling around and mapping out the existing wiring and adding labels
to them for future reference.  Except for the starter 12V battery, all
connections felt tight with no surface corrosion (for whatever that's
worth) including the grounds on the engine block.  I then took apart the
starter 12V battery connections, cleaned the terminals then stripped the
wires and added new connectors.  Used the Tef Gel (thanks for that
recommendation Dennis C) and now the starter battery and charging system
seem to work perfectly.  Setting the Main Switch to position 2 leaves me
with all 12V systems working just fine.  Yay!

Curiously, I could not find a ground wire from the starter to the engine
ground so I wonder if it's grounded through the starter chassis?  I did
notice on the Starter that the ground wire from the Solenoid to the starter
is a bare multistranded wire that looks as if it should be cleaned up but
it's pretty short to cut and reconnect.  I didn't take that connection
apart at the solenoid as I was afraid something else might be connected to
that ground screw inside the solenoid..  Can I just take it off and clean
the wire?  I suspect this might be the reason that, every since I've had
the boat, pressing the starter button sometimes produces a click but does
not engage the starter.  Two or three tries usually makes the starter
engage and the engine then starts just fine.

After all this, the engine starts but still feels sluggish to turn over so
i think, as Garry suggested, there were two problems.  I will try this
weekend to put a Voltmeter between Batt - terminal and Starter + terminal
and look for voltage drop to see if Hot or Ground paths are contributing.
Obvious how to do that on the starter 12V battery but which of the four
Trojan negative terminals would I put the Voltmeter on or does it matter?

 I will also begin this weekend disconnecting and cleaning all the other
connections.  I might try the ground behind the starter as Dave S
recommended first, but ultimately, I'll do them all.  This has taken me
several hours to do all of this (most of it just mapping the wiring) but
I'm starting to feel a lot more confident to carry on and I do want to
thank all of you for your observations and advice.

Wade
Oh Boy 33 MK II

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 8:32 AM Dave S  wrote:

> Good luck with the troubleshooting.
> Can’t recall if I responded with this but some 33-2 electrical info and
> photos here
>
> http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html?m=1
>
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 14, 2019, at 8:46 AM, Wade Glew  wrote:
>
> thank you to all who responded to my email.  I wont be back to the boat
> for a couple of weeks but you've all given me lots of information and
> suggestions of a plan to go forwards.  Thanks again, will let you know how
> it goes
> Wade
> Oh Boy C 33 MK II
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 9:31 PM Garry Cross via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> My 2 cents.
>> Sounds to me like two different bad connections. There is a bad
>> connection, likely ground path on Batt 2, just the load of the normal house
>> circuits cannot flow through it. For Batt 1 it sounds like another bad
>> connection but the house circuit does not draw enough current to drop the
>> voltage enough that things stop working but the start current drops the
>> voltage to much. It's all about ohm's law. I = V/R or V = I*R. So with low
>> amps there is less voltage drop over a bad connection. Raise the current
>> and you produce more voltage drop. Push 1 amp through a 6 ohm resistance
>> and your gonna drop 6V.  Put a voltmeter there with no load it will read
>> 12V.
>> Another way, put a voltmeter between the battery - terminal and the + at
>> the starter. It likely will read 12v. If you hit the start button and the
>> voltage stays at 12v then the issue is in the ground path. If it drops the
>> issue is in the hot path.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------ Forwarded message --
>>> From: Jeff Helsdingen 
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Cc:
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 18:47:46 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice
>>> I would imagine it would also be prudent to check the connection of all
>>> the ring terminals on both the power and ground circuits from the battery
>>> through the battery switch and to the starter.  Since it's a "new" problem
>>> I wouldn't immed

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Also interested in where the heck you put the batteries - like Michael, I 
stopped with 2x group 31 plus a start battery.  I think I could cut out the 
existing battery shelf and maybe gain a few more amp hours with an 
incrementally larger footprint/height but that’s it.

Agreed on some of the other points for sure - battery management strategy is 
documented in the link I sent previously.

Dave 
Windstar 33-2


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 15, 2019, at 10:47 AM, Catherine & Michael . 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> We recently updated the 12V system on our 33-2 this year.  We reached out to 
> an ABYC marine electrician for advice about our plan.
> 
> I won't re-hash other thoughts in the previous emails, but my two cents:
> 
> - Connections are often an issue and the first place to look. Connections may 
> visually appear in good condition, but a loose connection can be an issue. 
> 
> - House and starter battery should never be able to see each other. A large 
> house bank at 60% charge connected to a fully charged starting battery can 
> draw a lot of current over the circuit from of the starting battery to the 
> house and make it difficult to start... Our electrician recommended we put a 
> battery management panel in place with two battery switches so the two 
> batteries remain independent and if the starter battery dies, we could adjust 
> the switch to start using the house isolating the starting battery from the 
> circuit completely.  
> 
> - Our starting battery gets charge via a Xantrex Echo Charge and all of our 
> charging inputs go directly to the house (solar, battery charger, alternator, 
> etc).  This again is to make sure the house and starting batteries are 
> isolated and the most amount of energy can be put into the largest battery 
> bank. 
> 
> One thing I would like to know is how you got the 4-Trojan's in place... We 
> looked at changing our battery arrangement and decided it was too hard so our 
> house is 2-G31 batteries with an isolated G24 starting battery.  One big plus 
> of this change is that the engine fires up on the first go where it used to 
> take 2-3 tries to get her going when cold. 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Michael Egberts 
> theegbertsfam...@gmail.com
> Big Lou - C 33-2
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 9:33 AM Dave S via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> Good luck with the troubleshooting.  
>> Can’t recall if I responded with this but some 33-2 electrical info and 
>> photos here
>> 
>> http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html?m=1
>> 
>> Dave 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 14, 2019, at 8:46 AM, Wade Glew  wrote:
>>> 
>>> thank you to all who responded to my email.  I wont be back to the boat for 
>>> a couple of weeks but you've all given me lots of information and 
>>> suggestions of a plan to go forwards.  Thanks again, will let you know how 
>>> it goes
>>> Wade 
>>> Oh Boy C 33 MK II
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 9:31 PM Garry Cross via CnC-List 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> My 2 cents. 
>>>> Sounds to me like two different bad connections. There is a bad 
>>>> connection, likely ground path on Batt 2, just the load of the normal 
>>>> house circuits cannot flow through it. For Batt 1 it sounds like another 
>>>> bad connection but the house circuit does not draw enough current to drop 
>>>> the voltage enough that things stop working but the start current drops 
>>>> the voltage to much. It's all about ohm's law. I = V/R or V = I*R. So with 
>>>> low amps there is less voltage drop over a bad connection. Raise the 
>>>> current and you produce more voltage drop. Push 1 amp through a 6 ohm 
>>>> resistance and your gonna drop 6V.  Put a voltmeter there with no load it 
>>>> will read 12V. 
>>>> Another way, put a voltmeter between the battery - terminal and the + at 
>>>> the starter. It likely will read 12v. If you hit the start button and the 
>>>> voltage stays at 12v then the issue is in the ground path. If it drops the 
>>>> issue is in the hot path. 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> -- Forwarded message --
>>>>> From: Jeff Helsdingen 
>>>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>>>> Cc: 
>>>>> Bcc: 
>>>>> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 18:47:46 -0400
>>>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice
>>>>> I would imagine it would also be prudent to check the connection of all 
>>>>> the ring terminals on both the power and ground circ

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Neil,

I forgot about things like missile contacts.  Perfect example though.  In a
similar way the 13kv, 4kv,and 480v breakers that I regularly work with all
have "stabs" that engage and disengage the bus bars.  All of them have a
lubricant applied.  I don't know anything about the chemical components in
that particular lubricant/grease but it is brownish tan, transparent, and
not sticky like tef-gel.

Josh

On Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 10:04 AM schiller via CnC-List 
wrote:

> OK guys, here is an explanation from my Missile Control days.  What the
> Tefgel is doing is acting as a "faying surface" sealant.  Big words for
> describing that the Tefgel is filling in all of the crevices between the
> actual contact points.  Remember that there is no such thing as a smooth
> surface.  The lug is contacting the post on several high points of the
> surface and the Tefgel is keeping moisture and contaminants from getting in
> between.
>
> We used faying surface sealants on most of the joints subject to corrosion
> on most of the munitions that I was involved with.  Sometimes it was
> loctite sometimes it was poly-imide epoxy primer, sometimes it was just a
> non silicone surface sealant.
>
> Neil Schiller
> 1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
> Whitehall, Michigan
> WLYC
>
> "Actually, I am a rocket scientist"
>
> On 8/15/2019 9:46 AM, Bailey White via CnC-List wrote:
>
>
> Thinking about Tef-gel and recommended practices by experienced people, I
> once coated my trailer lighting harness connector for a small boat with
> lanocote.  My thoughts were as the prior posters, that it would keep away
> future corrosion and perhaps improve connections.
>
> I tested the fitting after I applied lanocote and found the trailer lights
> no longer worked and I needed to try to replace the harness as cleaning was
> very difficult.
>
> I wonder if the pressure of a more fixed connection is the differentiator
> for connectivity with these kinds of coatings or if Tef-gel is superior?
>
> Bailey White
> C 36-1
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Catherine & Michael . via CnC-List]

We recently updated the 12V system on our 33-2 this year.  We reached out
to an ABYC marine electrician for advice about our plan.

I won't re-hash other thoughts in the previous emails, but my two cents:

- Connections are often an issue and the first place to look. Connections
may visually appear in good condition, but a loose connection can be an
issue.

- House and starter battery should never be able to see each other. A large
house bank at 60% charge connected to a fully charged starting battery can
draw a lot of current over the circuit from of the starting battery to the
house and make it difficult to start... Our electrician recommended we put
a battery management panel in place with two battery switches so the two
batteries remain independent and if the starter battery dies, we could
adjust the switch to start using the house isolating the starting battery
from the circuit completely.

- Our starting battery gets charge via a Xantrex Echo Charge and all of our
charging inputs go directly to the house (solar, battery charger,
alternator, etc).  This again is to make sure the house and starting
batteries are isolated and the most amount of energy can be put into the
largest battery bank.

One thing I would like to know is how you got the 4-Trojan's in place... We
looked at changing our battery arrangement and decided it was too hard so
our house is 2-G31 batteries with an isolated G24 starting battery.  One
big plus of this change is that the engine fires up on the first go where
it used to take 2-3 tries to get her going when cold.

Cheers,

Michael Egberts
theegbertsfam...@gmail.com
Big Lou - C 33-2


On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 9:33 AM Dave S via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Good luck with the troubleshooting.
> Can’t recall if I responded with this but some 33-2 electrical info and
> photos here
>
> http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html?m=1
>
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 14, 2019, at 8:46 AM, Wade Glew  wrote:
>
> thank you to all who responded to my email.  I wont be back to the boat
> for a couple of weeks but you've all given me lots of information and
> suggestions of a plan to go forwards.  Thanks again, will let you know how
> it goes
> Wade
> Oh Boy C 33 MK II
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 9:31 PM Garry Cross via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> My 2 cents.
>> Sounds to me like two different bad connections. There is a bad
>> connection, likely ground path on Batt 2, just the load of the normal house
>> circuits cannot flow through it. For Batt 1 it sounds like another bad
>> connection but the house circuit does not draw enough current to drop the
>> voltage enough that things stop working but the start current drops the
>> voltage to much. It's all about ohm's law. I = V/R or V = I*R. So with low
>> amps there is less voltage drop over a bad connection. Raise the current
>> and you produce more voltage drop. Push 1 amp through a 6 ohm resistance
>> and your gonna drop 6V.  Put a voltmeter there with no load it will read
>> 12V.
>> Another way, put a voltmeter between the battery - terminal and the + at
>> the starter. It likely will read 12v. If you hit the start button and the
>> voltage stays at 12v then the issue is in the ground path. If it drops the
>> issue is in the hot path.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------ Forwarded message --
>>> From: Jeff Helsdingen 
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Cc:
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 18:47:46 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice
>>> I would imagine it would also be prudent to check the connection of all
>>> the ring terminals on both the power and ground circuits from the battery
>>> through the battery switch and to the starter.  Since it's a "new" problem
>>> I wouldn't immediately think that wire sizing might be a problem as well
>>> but "original" cabling that has had lots of extra things added can suddenly
>>> become undersized quickly too.
>>>
>>> Jeff Helsdingen
>>> Caposhi
>>> C 35 mk 1 #54
>>> Port Stanley On.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:14 PM Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Agreed, sounds like a bad ground.  Voltage is one thing; but enough
>>>> current to crank is another, and definitely something that will be
>>>> adversely affected by bad ground continuity.
>>>>
>>>> — Fred
>>>>
>>>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>>>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-L

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[schiller via CnC-List]

OK guys, here is an explanation from my Missile Control days.  What the 
Tefgel is doing is acting as a "faying surface" sealant.  Big words for 
describing that the Tefgel is filling in all of the crevices between the 
actual contact points. Remember that there is no such thing as a smooth 
surface.  The lug is contacting the post on several high points of the 
surface and the Tefgel is keeping moisture and contaminants from getting 
in between.


We used faying surface sealants on most of the joints subject to 
corrosion on most of the munitions that I was involved with. Sometimes 
it was loctite sometimes it was poly-imide epoxy primer, sometimes it 
was just a non silicone surface sealant.


Neil Schiller
1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC

"Actually, I am a rocket scientist"

On 8/15/2019 9:46 AM, Bailey White via CnC-List wrote:


Thinking about Tef-gel and recommended practices by experienced 
people, I once coated my trailer lighting harness connector for a 
small boat with lanocote. My thoughts were as the prior posters, that 
it would keep away future corrosion and perhaps improve connections.


I tested the fitting after I applied lanocote and found the trailer 
lights no longer worked and I needed to try to replace the harness as 
cleaning was very difficult.


I wonder if the pressure of a more fixed connection is the 
differentiator for connectivity with these kinds of coatings or if 
Tef-gel is superior?


Bailey White
C 36-1

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Oddly enough, trailer connections are one of the "electrical plugs" which I
have mashed silicone dielectric grease into.  I never had a trailer light
problem that could be traced to the connectors.  Maybe, in your case
Bailey, it had something to do with it being lanocote?

Josh


On Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 9:47 AM Bailey White via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

>
> Thinking about Tef-gel and recommended practices by experienced people, I
> once coated my trailer lighting harness connector for a small boat with
> lanocote.  My thoughts were as the prior posters, that it would keep away
> future corrosion and perhaps improve connections.
>
> I tested the fitting after I applied lanocote and found the trailer lights
> no longer worked and I needed to try to replace the harness as cleaning was
> very difficult.
>
> I wonder if the pressure of a more fixed connection is the differentiator
> for connectivity with these kinds of coatings or if Tef-gel is superior?
>
> Bailey White
> C 36-1
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

There may be a complex, microscopic explanation. But the short answer I picked 
up as an ME and in years of being a technical trainer is that the action of 
crimping, staging, etc. to get a tight connection forces the dielectric out of 
the way and gives connectivity through metal to metal contact. The dielectric 
remains in the voids between wire and fitting (or screw and mast) and among the 
wire strands to prevent incursion of moisture and atmosphere that cause 
corrosion.

Rick Brass

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 14, 2019, at 12:52, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> This question has been asked before.  Yes, it seems counter-intuitive that a 
> Teflon or silicone coating would conduct a current.  I vaguely recall one of 
> the more technically oriented listers answering the question about 15-20 
> years ago.  Something about the interstitial spaces being coated at a 
> microscopic level and the electrons aligning in lockstep or something.  I'm 
> not being facetious, it really was something like that.  
> 
> All I know is it works.  Like you, I've measured ohms before and after 
> application of Tefgel with little change indicated. 
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 11:23 AM Josh Muckley via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Dennis, 
>> 
>> This question came up at work the other day.  I do the same as you, coat the 
>> connections then attach.  Battery manufacturers and, in my case, the PM 
>> schedule for batteries at a nuclear power plant both state scrubbing the 
>> connections, coating them, wiping clean, then making the connection.  In 
>> this case they are using silicone dielectric grease but the concept is the 
>> same.  In my own practice I really don't bother to wipe the connections 
>> clean.  The question is, if the Tef-gel and Silicone are both dielectric 
>> (non-conductive) and cover the mating surfaces then how is the electrical 
>> connection made?  Why does it not increase the resistance of the connection 
>> - or does it, but just to an insignificant extent?  My ohm meter reads zero. 
>>  I've smashed the grease into electrical connectors and even outlets for 
>> weather, water, and corrosion protection with absolutely no indication of a 
>> problem and always assumed that the metal to metal interface just punched 
>> through the dielectric and that any insignificant increase in the resistance 
>> must be dwarfed by that of the risk of corrosion.
>> 
>> Are you aware of any resistance tests being done or of devices capable of 
>> detecting if ultra-low resistance is being created?
>> 
>> Josh Muckley 
>> S/V Sea Hawk 
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 11:48 AM Dennis C. via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Superlube will NOT work.
>>> 
>>> I put TefGel on all metal to metal contact points.  That is, before I crimp 
>>> a connector on a wire, I coat the wire with TefGel.  Then I coat the ring 
>>> connector or male/female disconnect with TefGel before attaching it to a 
>>> terminal block, breaker, or whatever.
>>> 
>>> My buddy and I have about 40 years of collective experience in marine 
>>> electrical.  Neither of us has ever had a corrosion related failure on any 
>>> connection coated with TefGel.
>>> 
>>> TefGel is also a good dissimilar metal corrosion coating.  We use it, or 
>>> threadlocker, on any stainless into aluminum fastening.
>>> 
>>> Dennis C.
>>> 
 On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 10:24 AM Wade Glew via CnC-List 
  wrote:
 Dennis,
 Do you put the TefGel on the battery connecting surfaces or coat the 
 surfaces after all connections are made?  Would Superlube work the same?
 Wade 
 Oh Boy C 33 MKII 
 
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 13:47 Dennis C. via CnC-List, 
>  wrote:
> Best to disconnect all the battery cables both positive and negative, 
> clean them and reconnect them.  Get yourself some Ultra Safety Systems 
> TefGel 
> (https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=546)
>  and coat the connections with it.  Clean both ends of the cables.
> 
> Like Fred said, measuring voltage is only part of the story.  You're 
> really looking for current.  A corroded connection may show adequate 
> voltage but may be incapable of passing enough current to start your 
> engine.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 1:34 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> thanks you.
>> 
>> Ok,  I'll get a volt meter to check the batteries directly.  
>>  if I'm to check all the grounds, I take this to mean:  follow the 
>> batteries back to wherever the system grounds to the engine block to 
>> begin with.  Then each of the battery terminals and finally to where the 
>> battery banks come to the main ground bus?   I'm really a rookie with 
>> electrical stuff so be specific if you can.
>> 
>> Wade 
>> Oh Boy C 33 

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Bailey White via CnC-List]

Thinking about Tef-gel and recommended practices by experienced people, I
once coated my trailer lighting harness connector for a small boat with
lanocote.  My thoughts were as the prior posters, that it would keep away
future corrosion and perhaps improve connections.

I tested the fitting after I applied lanocote and found the trailer lights
no longer worked and I needed to try to replace the harness as cleaning was
very difficult.

I wonder if the pressure of a more fixed connection is the differentiator
for connectivity with these kinds of coatings or if Tef-gel is superior?

Bailey White
C 36-1
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

This question has been asked before.  Yes, it seems counter-intuitive that
a Teflon or silicone coating would conduct a current.  I vaguely recall one
of the more technically oriented listers answering the question about 15-20
years ago.  Something about the interstitial spaces being coated at a
microscopic level and the electrons aligning in lockstep or something.  I'm
not being facetious, it really was something like that.

All I know is it works.  Like you, I've measured ohms before and after
application of Tefgel with little change indicated.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA


On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 11:23 AM Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Dennis,
>
> This question came up at work the other day.  I do the same as you, coat
> the connections then attach.  Battery manufacturers and, in my case, the PM
> schedule for batteries at a nuclear power plant both state scrubbing the
> connections, coating them, wiping clean, then making the connection.  In
> this case they are using silicone dielectric grease but the concept is the
> same.  In my own practice I really don't bother to wipe the connections
> clean.  The question is, if the Tef-gel and Silicone are both dielectric
> (non-conductive) and cover the mating surfaces then how is the electrical
> connection made?  Why does it not increase the resistance of the connection
> - or does it, but just to an insignificant extent?  My ohm meter reads
> zero.  I've smashed the grease into electrical connectors and even outlets
> for weather, water, and corrosion protection with absolutely no indication
> of a problem and always assumed that the metal to metal interface just
> punched through the dielectric and that any insignificant increase in the
> resistance must be dwarfed by that of the risk of corrosion.
>
> Are you aware of any resistance tests being done or of devices capable of
> detecting if ultra-low resistance is being created?
>
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 11:48 AM Dennis C. via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Superlube will NOT work.
>>
>> I put TefGel on all metal to metal contact points.  That is, before I
>> crimp a connector on a wire, I coat the wire with TefGel.  Then I coat the
>> ring connector or male/female disconnect with TefGel before attaching it to
>> a terminal block, breaker, or whatever.
>>
>> My buddy and I have about 40 years of collective experience in marine
>> electrical.  Neither of us has ever had a corrosion related failure on any
>> connection coated with TefGel.
>>
>> TefGel is also a good dissimilar metal corrosion coating.  We use it, or
>> threadlocker, on any stainless into aluminum fastening.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 10:24 AM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dennis,
>>> Do you put the TefGel on the battery connecting surfaces or coat the
>>> surfaces after all connections are made?  Would Superlube work the same?
>>> Wade
>>> Oh Boy C 33 MKII
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 13:47 Dennis C. via CnC-List, <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 Best to disconnect all the battery cables both positive and negative,
 clean them and reconnect them.  Get yourself some Ultra Safety Systems
 TefGel (
 https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=546)
 and coat the connections with it.  Clean both ends of the cables.

 Like Fred said, measuring voltage is only part of the story.  You're
 really looking for current.  A corroded connection may show adequate
 voltage but may be incapable of passing enough current to start your 
 engine.

 Dennis C.
 Touche' 35-1 #83
 Mandeville, LA

 On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 1:34 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> thanks you.
>
> Ok,  I'll get a volt meter to check the batteries directly.
>  if I'm to check all the grounds, I take this to mean:  follow the
> batteries back to wherever the system grounds to the engine block to begin
> with.  Then each of the battery terminals and finally to where the battery
> banks come to the main ground bus?   I'm really a rookie with electrical
> stuff so be specific if you can.
>
> Wade
> Oh Boy C 33 MK II
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 1:14 PM Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Agreed, sounds like a bad ground.  Voltage is one thing; but enough
>> current to crank is another, and definitely something that will be
>> adversely affected by bad ground continuity.
>>
>> — Fred
>>
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>>
>> On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Clean all the ground connections.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>>
>> On 

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Dennis,

This question came up at work the other day.  I do the same as you, coat
the connections then attach.  Battery manufacturers and, in my case, the PM
schedule for batteries at a nuclear power plant both state scrubbing the
connections, coating them, wiping clean, then making the connection.  In
this case they are using silicone dielectric grease but the concept is the
same.  In my own practice I really don't bother to wipe the connections
clean.  The question is, if the Tef-gel and Silicone are both dielectric
(non-conductive) and cover the mating surfaces then how is the electrical
connection made?  Why does it not increase the resistance of the connection
- or does it, but just to an insignificant extent?  My ohm meter reads
zero.  I've smashed the grease into electrical connectors and even outlets
for weather, water, and corrosion protection with absolutely no indication
of a problem and always assumed that the metal to metal interface just
punched through the dielectric and that any insignificant increase in the
resistance must be dwarfed by that of the risk of corrosion.

Are you aware of any resistance tests being done or of devices capable of
detecting if ultra-low resistance is being created?

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD



On Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 11:48 AM Dennis C. via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Superlube will NOT work.
>
> I put TefGel on all metal to metal contact points.  That is, before I
> crimp a connector on a wire, I coat the wire with TefGel.  Then I coat the
> ring connector or male/female disconnect with TefGel before attaching it to
> a terminal block, breaker, or whatever.
>
> My buddy and I have about 40 years of collective experience in marine
> electrical.  Neither of us has ever had a corrosion related failure on any
> connection coated with TefGel.
>
> TefGel is also a good dissimilar metal corrosion coating.  We use it, or
> threadlocker, on any stainless into aluminum fastening.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 10:24 AM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Dennis,
>> Do you put the TefGel on the battery connecting surfaces or coat the
>> surfaces after all connections are made?  Would Superlube work the same?
>> Wade
>> Oh Boy C 33 MKII
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 13:47 Dennis C. via CnC-List, <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Best to disconnect all the battery cables both positive and negative,
>>> clean them and reconnect them.  Get yourself some Ultra Safety Systems
>>> TefGel (
>>> https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=546)
>>> and coat the connections with it.  Clean both ends of the cables.
>>>
>>> Like Fred said, measuring voltage is only part of the story.  You're
>>> really looking for current.  A corroded connection may show adequate
>>> voltage but may be incapable of passing enough current to start your engine.
>>>
>>> Dennis C.
>>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>>> Mandeville, LA
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 1:34 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 thanks you.

 Ok,  I'll get a volt meter to check the batteries directly.
  if I'm to check all the grounds, I take this to mean:  follow the
 batteries back to wherever the system grounds to the engine block to begin
 with.  Then each of the battery terminals and finally to where the battery
 banks come to the main ground bus?   I'm really a rookie with electrical
 stuff so be specific if you can.

 Wade
 Oh Boy C 33 MK II

 On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 1:14 PM Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Agreed, sounds like a bad ground.  Voltage is one thing; but enough
> current to crank is another, and definitely something that will be
> adversely affected by bad ground continuity.
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>
> On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Clean all the ground connections.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:26 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello listers,  I would appreciate any advice you might have on my
>> electrical issue du jour.
>>
>> Mine is a C 33 MK II and I have a Link 20 battery monitoring
>> system.  Bank 1 (house) is 4 Trojan T-105 (225 AH) 6V  deep cycles about 
>> 5
>> years old.  Bank 2 is a 12V starter battery dated 2005.  I look after my
>> batteries pretty well and the system seemed to be operating normally.  I
>> have a True Charge 40 battery charger.   One morning after several days 
>> out
>> sailing, drinking lots of cold beer from the fridge and lots of music
>> playing) and running the engine very little, the engine would not start.
>> Starter turned slow, felt like no battery power.  I had the Master 

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Superlube will NOT work.

I put TefGel on all metal to metal contact points.  That is, before I crimp
a connector on a wire, I coat the wire with TefGel.  Then I coat the ring
connector or male/female disconnect with TefGel before attaching it to a
terminal block, breaker, or whatever.

My buddy and I have about 40 years of collective experience in marine
electrical.  Neither of us has ever had a corrosion related failure on any
connection coated with TefGel.

TefGel is also a good dissimilar metal corrosion coating.  We use it, or
threadlocker, on any stainless into aluminum fastening.

Dennis C.

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 10:24 AM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Dennis,
> Do you put the TefGel on the battery connecting surfaces or coat the
> surfaces after all connections are made?  Would Superlube work the same?
> Wade
> Oh Boy C 33 MKII
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 13:47 Dennis C. via CnC-List, 
> wrote:
>
>> Best to disconnect all the battery cables both positive and negative,
>> clean them and reconnect them.  Get yourself some Ultra Safety Systems
>> TefGel (
>> https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=546)
>> and coat the connections with it.  Clean both ends of the cables.
>>
>> Like Fred said, measuring voltage is only part of the story.  You're
>> really looking for current.  A corroded connection may show adequate
>> voltage but may be incapable of passing enough current to start your engine.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 1:34 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> thanks you.
>>>
>>> Ok,  I'll get a volt meter to check the batteries directly.
>>>  if I'm to check all the grounds, I take this to mean:  follow the
>>> batteries back to wherever the system grounds to the engine block to begin
>>> with.  Then each of the battery terminals and finally to where the battery
>>> banks come to the main ground bus?   I'm really a rookie with electrical
>>> stuff so be specific if you can.
>>>
>>> Wade
>>> Oh Boy C 33 MK II
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 1:14 PM Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 Agreed, sounds like a bad ground.  Voltage is one thing; but enough
 current to crank is another, and definitely something that will be
 adversely affected by bad ground continuity.

 — Fred

 Fred Street -- Minneapolis
 S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

 On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

 Clean all the ground connections.

 Dennis C.

 On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:26 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
 cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello listers,  I would appreciate any advice you might have on my
> electrical issue du jour.
>
> Mine is a C 33 MK II and I have a Link 20 battery monitoring
> system.  Bank 1 (house) is 4 Trojan T-105 (225 AH) 6V  deep cycles about 5
> years old.  Bank 2 is a 12V starter battery dated 2005.  I look after my
> batteries pretty well and the system seemed to be operating normally.  I
> have a True Charge 40 battery charger.   One morning after several days 
> out
> sailing, drinking lots of cold beer from the fridge and lots of music
> playing) and running the engine very little, the engine would not start.
> Starter turned slow, felt like no battery power.  I had the Master Switch
> on 1 so I turned the switch to Battery 2 at which point all 12V electrical
> activity on the boat stopped working altogether.  Prior to switching to 
> Bat
> 2, the Link 20 showed my starter battery at 12.4V with estimated time on
> battery remaining at 225 hours.  I put a portable battery pack onto my
> starter battery and it read 12.4 V from the battery.  However, powering up
> the battery pack and connecting to my starter battery allowed me to start
> the engine.
>
> I went back to harbour and replaced my starter battery with a brand
> new 1000 cranking amps 12V battery.  I charged by shore power overnight
> then left for a few more days on the water.
>
> Now, the current circumstance is this.
> When connected to shore power and Main Switch set to Bat 1,  I see
> normal charging voltages to both battery banks.
> When under engine and Main Switch set to ALL, I see normal charging to
> both batteries.
> After sitting overnight on anchor, I see both Bank 1 and Bank 2 are
> resting at about 12.5 V.  Both banks show plenty of reserve on the Link
> 20.  When I try to start the engine it feels again like I have low battery
> power.  The engine barely turns when I set the Main Switch to either Bat 1
> or ALL and won't start.  If I change the switch to Bat 2, all 12V
> electrical activity on the boat instantly stops.  If I put the portable
> battery pack onto 

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Wade Glew via CnC-List]

Dennis,
Do you put the TefGel on the battery connecting surfaces or coat the
surfaces after all connections are made?  Would Superlube work the same?
Wade
Oh Boy C 33 MKII

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 13:47 Dennis C. via CnC-List, 
wrote:

> Best to disconnect all the battery cables both positive and negative,
> clean them and reconnect them.  Get yourself some Ultra Safety Systems
> TefGel (
> https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=546)
> and coat the connections with it.  Clean both ends of the cables.
>
> Like Fred said, measuring voltage is only part of the story.  You're
> really looking for current.  A corroded connection may show adequate
> voltage but may be incapable of passing enough current to start your engine.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 1:34 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> thanks you.
>>
>> Ok,  I'll get a volt meter to check the batteries directly.
>>  if I'm to check all the grounds, I take this to mean:  follow the
>> batteries back to wherever the system grounds to the engine block to begin
>> with.  Then each of the battery terminals and finally to where the battery
>> banks come to the main ground bus?   I'm really a rookie with electrical
>> stuff so be specific if you can.
>>
>> Wade
>> Oh Boy C 33 MK II
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 1:14 PM Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed, sounds like a bad ground.  Voltage is one thing; but enough
>>> current to crank is another, and definitely something that will be
>>> adversely affected by bad ground continuity.
>>>
>>> — Fred
>>>
>>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>>>
>>> On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Clean all the ground connections.
>>>
>>> Dennis C.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:26 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
 Hello listers,  I would appreciate any advice you might have on my
 electrical issue du jour.

 Mine is a C 33 MK II and I have a Link 20 battery monitoring system.
 Bank 1 (house) is 4 Trojan T-105 (225 AH) 6V  deep cycles about 5 years
 old.  Bank 2 is a 12V starter battery dated 2005.  I look after my
 batteries pretty well and the system seemed to be operating normally.  I
 have a True Charge 40 battery charger.   One morning after several days out
 sailing, drinking lots of cold beer from the fridge and lots of music
 playing) and running the engine very little, the engine would not start.
 Starter turned slow, felt like no battery power.  I had the Master Switch
 on 1 so I turned the switch to Battery 2 at which point all 12V electrical
 activity on the boat stopped working altogether.  Prior to switching to Bat
 2, the Link 20 showed my starter battery at 12.4V with estimated time on
 battery remaining at 225 hours.  I put a portable battery pack onto my
 starter battery and it read 12.4 V from the battery.  However, powering up
 the battery pack and connecting to my starter battery allowed me to start
 the engine.

 I went back to harbour and replaced my starter battery with a brand new
 1000 cranking amps 12V battery.  I charged by shore power overnight then
 left for a few more days on the water.

 Now, the current circumstance is this.
 When connected to shore power and Main Switch set to Bat 1,  I see
 normal charging voltages to both battery banks.
 When under engine and Main Switch set to ALL, I see normal charging to
 both batteries.
 After sitting overnight on anchor, I see both Bank 1 and Bank 2 are
 resting at about 12.5 V.  Both banks show plenty of reserve on the Link
 20.  When I try to start the engine it feels again like I have low battery
 power.  The engine barely turns when I set the Main Switch to either Bat 1
 or ALL and won't start.  If I change the switch to Bat 2, all 12V
 electrical activity on the boat instantly stops.  If I put the portable
 battery pack onto my starter battery with the switch in the ALL position,
 the engine will go however, it still feels like the starter is turning too
 slowly.

 I'm looking for a single cause to explain all this as up til now, the
 system has functioned well for the 10 years I've owned the boat.  I would
 appreciate any suggestions

 Wade
 Oh Boy, C 33 MK II

>>> ___
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>>
>>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every 

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Good luck with the troubleshooting.  
Can’t recall if I responded with this but some 33-2 electrical info and photos 
here

http://cncwindstar.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html?m=1

Dave 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 14, 2019, at 8:46 AM, Wade Glew  wrote:
> 
> thank you to all who responded to my email.  I wont be back to the boat for a 
> couple of weeks but you've all given me lots of information and suggestions 
> of a plan to go forwards.  Thanks again, will let you know how it goes
> Wade 
> Oh Boy C 33 MK II
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 9:31 PM Garry Cross via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> My 2 cents. 
>> Sounds to me like two different bad connections. There is a bad connection, 
>> likely ground path on Batt 2, just the load of the normal house circuits 
>> cannot flow through it. For Batt 1 it sounds like another bad connection but 
>> the house circuit does not draw enough current to drop the voltage enough 
>> that things stop working but the start current drops the voltage to much. 
>> It's all about ohm's law. I = V/R or V = I*R. So with low amps there is less 
>> voltage drop over a bad connection. Raise the current and you produce more 
>> voltage drop. Push 1 amp through a 6 ohm resistance and your gonna drop 6V.  
>> Put a voltmeter there with no load it will read 12V. 
>> Another way, put a voltmeter between the battery - terminal and the + at the 
>> starter. It likely will read 12v. If you hit the start button and the 
>> voltage stays at 12v then the issue is in the ground path. If it drops the 
>> issue is in the hot path. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> -- Forwarded message ------
>>> From: Jeff Helsdingen 
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Cc: 
>>> Bcc: 
>>> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 18:47:46 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice
>>> I would imagine it would also be prudent to check the connection of all the 
>>> ring terminals on both the power and ground circuits from the battery 
>>> through the battery switch and to the starter.  Since it's a "new" problem 
>>> I wouldn't immediately think that wire sizing might be a problem as well 
>>> but "original" cabling that has had lots of extra things added can suddenly 
>>> become undersized quickly too.
>>> 
>>> Jeff Helsdingen
>>> Caposhi
>>> C 35 mk 1 #54
>>> Port Stanley On.
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:14 PM Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> Agreed, sounds like a bad ground.  Voltage is one thing; but enough 
>>>> current to crank is another, and definitely something that will be 
>>>> adversely affected by bad ground continuity.
>>>> 
>>>> — Fred
>>>> 
>>>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>>>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Clean all the ground connections.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dennis C.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:26 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> Hello listers,  I would appreciate any advice you might have on my 
>>>>>> electrical issue du jour.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mine is a C 33 MK II and I have a Link 20 battery monitoring system.  
>>>>>> Bank 1 (house) is 4 Trojan T-105 (225 AH) 6V  deep cycles about 5 years 
>>>>>> old.  Bank 2 is a 12V starter battery dated 2005.  I look after my 
>>>>>> batteries pretty well and the system seemed to be operating normally.  I 
>>>>>> have a True Charge 40 battery charger.   One morning after several days 
>>>>>> out sailing, drinking lots of cold beer from the fridge and lots of 
>>>>>> music playing) and running the engine very little, the engine would not 
>>>>>> start.  Starter turned slow, felt like no battery power.  I had the 
>>>>>> Master Switch on 1 so I turned the switch to Battery 2 at which point 
>>>>>> all 12V electrical activity on the boat stopped working altogether.  
>>>>>> Prior to switching to Bat 2, the Link 20 showed my starter battery at 
>>>>>> 12.4V with estimated time on battery remaining at 225 hours.  I put a 
>>>>>> portable battery pack onto my starter battery and it read 12.4 V from 
>>>>>> the battery.  Howeve

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Wade Glew via CnC-List]

thank you to all who responded to my email.  I wont be back to the boat for
a couple of weeks but you've all given me lots of information and
suggestions of a plan to go forwards.  Thanks again, will let you know how
it goes
Wade
Oh Boy C 33 MK II

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 9:31 PM Garry Cross via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> My 2 cents.
> Sounds to me like two different bad connections. There is a bad
> connection, likely ground path on Batt 2, just the load of the normal house
> circuits cannot flow through it. For Batt 1 it sounds like another bad
> connection but the house circuit does not draw enough current to drop the
> voltage enough that things stop working but the start current drops the
> voltage to much. It's all about ohm's law. I = V/R or V = I*R. So with low
> amps there is less voltage drop over a bad connection. Raise the current
> and you produce more voltage drop. Push 1 amp through a 6 ohm resistance
> and your gonna drop 6V.  Put a voltmeter there with no load it will read
> 12V.
> Another way, put a voltmeter between the battery - terminal and the + at
> the starter. It likely will read 12v. If you hit the start button and the
> voltage stays at 12v then the issue is in the ground path. If it drops the
> issue is in the hot path.
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: Jeff Helsdingen 
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 18:47:46 -0400
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice
>> I would imagine it would also be prudent to check the connection of all
>> the ring terminals on both the power and ground circuits from the battery
>> through the battery switch and to the starter.  Since it's a "new" problem
>> I wouldn't immediately think that wire sizing might be a problem as well
>> but "original" cabling that has had lots of extra things added can suddenly
>> become undersized quickly too.
>>
>> Jeff Helsdingen
>> Caposhi
>> C 35 mk 1 #54
>> Port Stanley On.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:14 PM Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed, sounds like a bad ground.  Voltage is one thing; but enough
>>> current to crank is another, and definitely something that will be
>>> adversely affected by bad ground continuity.
>>>
>>> — Fred
>>>
>>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>>>
>>> On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Clean all the ground connections.
>>>
>>> Dennis C.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:26 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello listers,  I would appreciate any advice you might have on my
>>>> electrical issue du jour.
>>>>
>>>> Mine is a C 33 MK II and I have a Link 20 battery monitoring system.
>>>> Bank 1 (house) is 4 Trojan T-105 (225 AH) 6V  deep cycles about 5 years
>>>> old.  Bank 2 is a 12V starter battery dated 2005.  I look after my
>>>> batteries pretty well and the system seemed to be operating normally.  I
>>>> have a True Charge 40 battery charger.   One morning after several days out
>>>> sailing, drinking lots of cold beer from the fridge and lots of music
>>>> playing) and running the engine very little, the engine would not start.
>>>> Starter turned slow, felt like no battery power.  I had the Master Switch
>>>> on 1 so I turned the switch to Battery 2 at which point all 12V electrical
>>>> activity on the boat stopped working altogether.  Prior to switching to Bat
>>>> 2, the Link 20 showed my starter battery at 12.4V with estimated time on
>>>> battery remaining at 225 hours.  I put a portable battery pack onto my
>>>> starter battery and it read 12.4 V from the battery.  However, powering up
>>>> the battery pack and connecting to my starter battery allowed me to start
>>>> the engine.
>>>>
>>>> I went back to harbour and replaced my starter battery with a brand new
>>>> 1000 cranking amps 12V battery.  I charged by shore power overnight then
>>>> left for a few more days on the water.
>>>>
>>>> Now, the current circumstance is this.
>>>> When connected to shore power and Main Switch set to Bat 1,  I see
>>>> normal charging voltages to both battery banks.
>>>> When under engine and Main Switch 

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Garry Cross via CnC-List]

My 2 cents.
Sounds to me like two different bad connections. There is a bad connection,
likely ground path on Batt 2, just the load of the normal house circuits
cannot flow through it. For Batt 1 it sounds like another bad connection
but the house circuit does not draw enough current to drop the voltage
enough that things stop working but the start current drops the voltage to
much. It's all about ohm's law. I = V/R or V = I*R. So with low amps there
is less voltage drop over a bad connection. Raise the current and you
produce more voltage drop. Push 1 amp through a 6 ohm resistance and your
gonna drop 6V.  Put a voltmeter there with no load it will read 12V.
Another way, put a voltmeter between the battery - terminal and the + at
the starter. It likely will read 12v. If you hit the start button and the
voltage stays at 12v then the issue is in the ground path. If it drops the
issue is in the hot path.



-- Forwarded message --
> From: Jeff Helsdingen 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 18:47:46 -0400
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice
> I would imagine it would also be prudent to check the connection of all
> the ring terminals on both the power and ground circuits from the battery
> through the battery switch and to the starter.  Since it's a "new" problem
> I wouldn't immediately think that wire sizing might be a problem as well
> but "original" cabling that has had lots of extra things added can suddenly
> become undersized quickly too.
>
> Jeff Helsdingen
> Caposhi
> C 35 mk 1 #54
> Port Stanley On.
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:14 PM Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Agreed, sounds like a bad ground.  Voltage is one thing; but enough
>> current to crank is another, and definitely something that will be
>> adversely affected by bad ground continuity.
>>
>> — Fred
>>
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>>
>> On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Clean all the ground connections.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:26 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello listers,  I would appreciate any advice you might have on my
>>> electrical issue du jour.
>>>
>>> Mine is a C 33 MK II and I have a Link 20 battery monitoring system.
>>> Bank 1 (house) is 4 Trojan T-105 (225 AH) 6V  deep cycles about 5 years
>>> old.  Bank 2 is a 12V starter battery dated 2005.  I look after my
>>> batteries pretty well and the system seemed to be operating normally.  I
>>> have a True Charge 40 battery charger.   One morning after several days out
>>> sailing, drinking lots of cold beer from the fridge and lots of music
>>> playing) and running the engine very little, the engine would not start.
>>> Starter turned slow, felt like no battery power.  I had the Master Switch
>>> on 1 so I turned the switch to Battery 2 at which point all 12V electrical
>>> activity on the boat stopped working altogether.  Prior to switching to Bat
>>> 2, the Link 20 showed my starter battery at 12.4V with estimated time on
>>> battery remaining at 225 hours.  I put a portable battery pack onto my
>>> starter battery and it read 12.4 V from the battery.  However, powering up
>>> the battery pack and connecting to my starter battery allowed me to start
>>> the engine.
>>>
>>> I went back to harbour and replaced my starter battery with a brand new
>>> 1000 cranking amps 12V battery.  I charged by shore power overnight then
>>> left for a few more days on the water.
>>>
>>> Now, the current circumstance is this.
>>> When connected to shore power and Main Switch set to Bat 1,  I see
>>> normal charging voltages to both battery banks.
>>> When under engine and Main Switch set to ALL, I see normal charging to
>>> both batteries.
>>> After sitting overnight on anchor, I see both Bank 1 and Bank 2 are
>>> resting at about 12.5 V.  Both banks show plenty of reserve on the Link
>>> 20.  When I try to start the engine it feels again like I have low battery
>>> power.  The engine barely turns when I set the Main Switch to either Bat 1
>>> or ALL and won't start.  If I change the switch to Bat 2, all 12V
>>> electrical activity on the boat instantly stops.  If I put the portable
>>> battery pack onto my starter battery with the switch in the ALL position,
>>> the engine will go however, it s

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Wade Glew via CnC-List]

Thanks Jeff,
I'll do that.
This boat had had a number of upgrades electrically by the man who owned it
for 15 years before me. I've upgraded nothing in the electrical systems in
the past 10 years. Still, lots of vibration over many years
Wade

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 17:48 Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List, <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I would imagine it would also be prudent to check the connection of all
> the ring terminals on both the power and ground circuits from the battery
> through the battery switch and to the starter.  Since it's a "new" problem
> I wouldn't immediately think that wire sizing might be a problem as well
> but "original" cabling that has had lots of extra things added can suddenly
> become undersized quickly too.
>
> Jeff Helsdingen
> Caposhi
> C 35 mk 1 #54
> Port Stanley On.
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:14 PM Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Agreed, sounds like a bad ground.  Voltage is one thing; but enough
>> current to crank is another, and definitely something that will be
>> adversely affected by bad ground continuity.
>>
>> — Fred
>>
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>>
>> On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Clean all the ground connections.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:26 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello listers,  I would appreciate any advice you might have on my
>>> electrical issue du jour.
>>>
>>> Mine is a C 33 MK II and I have a Link 20 battery monitoring system.
>>> Bank 1 (house) is 4 Trojan T-105 (225 AH) 6V  deep cycles about 5 years
>>> old.  Bank 2 is a 12V starter battery dated 2005.  I look after my
>>> batteries pretty well and the system seemed to be operating normally.  I
>>> have a True Charge 40 battery charger.   One morning after several days out
>>> sailing, drinking lots of cold beer from the fridge and lots of music
>>> playing) and running the engine very little, the engine would not start.
>>> Starter turned slow, felt like no battery power.  I had the Master Switch
>>> on 1 so I turned the switch to Battery 2 at which point all 12V electrical
>>> activity on the boat stopped working altogether.  Prior to switching to Bat
>>> 2, the Link 20 showed my starter battery at 12.4V with estimated time on
>>> battery remaining at 225 hours.  I put a portable battery pack onto my
>>> starter battery and it read 12.4 V from the battery.  However, powering up
>>> the battery pack and connecting to my starter battery allowed me to start
>>> the engine.
>>>
>>> I went back to harbour and replaced my starter battery with a brand new
>>> 1000 cranking amps 12V battery.  I charged by shore power overnight then
>>> left for a few more days on the water.
>>>
>>> Now, the current circumstance is this.
>>> When connected to shore power and Main Switch set to Bat 1,  I see
>>> normal charging voltages to both battery banks.
>>> When under engine and Main Switch set to ALL, I see normal charging to
>>> both batteries.
>>> After sitting overnight on anchor, I see both Bank 1 and Bank 2 are
>>> resting at about 12.5 V.  Both banks show plenty of reserve on the Link
>>> 20.  When I try to start the engine it feels again like I have low battery
>>> power.  The engine barely turns when I set the Main Switch to either Bat 1
>>> or ALL and won't start.  If I change the switch to Bat 2, all 12V
>>> electrical activity on the boat instantly stops.  If I put the portable
>>> battery pack onto my starter battery with the switch in the ALL position,
>>> the engine will go however, it still feels like the starter is turning too
>>> slowly.
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a single cause to explain all this as up til now, the
>>> system has functioned well for the 10 years I've owned the boat.  I would
>>> appreciate any suggestions
>>>
>>> Wade
>>> Oh Boy, C 33 MK II
>>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Jeff Helsdingen via CnC-List]

I would imagine it would also be prudent to check the connection of all the
ring terminals on both the power and ground circuits from the battery
through the battery switch and to the starter.  Since it's a "new" problem
I wouldn't immediately think that wire sizing might be a problem as well
but "original" cabling that has had lots of extra things added can suddenly
become undersized quickly too.

Jeff Helsdingen
Caposhi
C 35 mk 1 #54
Port Stanley On.

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 2:14 PM Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Agreed, sounds like a bad ground.  Voltage is one thing; but enough
> current to crank is another, and definitely something that will be
> adversely affected by bad ground continuity.
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>
> On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Clean all the ground connections.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:26 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello listers,  I would appreciate any advice you might have on my
>> electrical issue du jour.
>>
>> Mine is a C 33 MK II and I have a Link 20 battery monitoring system.
>> Bank 1 (house) is 4 Trojan T-105 (225 AH) 6V  deep cycles about 5 years
>> old.  Bank 2 is a 12V starter battery dated 2005.  I look after my
>> batteries pretty well and the system seemed to be operating normally.  I
>> have a True Charge 40 battery charger.   One morning after several days out
>> sailing, drinking lots of cold beer from the fridge and lots of music
>> playing) and running the engine very little, the engine would not start.
>> Starter turned slow, felt like no battery power.  I had the Master Switch
>> on 1 so I turned the switch to Battery 2 at which point all 12V electrical
>> activity on the boat stopped working altogether.  Prior to switching to Bat
>> 2, the Link 20 showed my starter battery at 12.4V with estimated time on
>> battery remaining at 225 hours.  I put a portable battery pack onto my
>> starter battery and it read 12.4 V from the battery.  However, powering up
>> the battery pack and connecting to my starter battery allowed me to start
>> the engine.
>>
>> I went back to harbour and replaced my starter battery with a brand new
>> 1000 cranking amps 12V battery.  I charged by shore power overnight then
>> left for a few more days on the water.
>>
>> Now, the current circumstance is this.
>> When connected to shore power and Main Switch set to Bat 1,  I see normal
>> charging voltages to both battery banks.
>> When under engine and Main Switch set to ALL, I see normal charging to
>> both batteries.
>> After sitting overnight on anchor, I see both Bank 1 and Bank 2 are
>> resting at about 12.5 V.  Both banks show plenty of reserve on the Link
>> 20.  When I try to start the engine it feels again like I have low battery
>> power.  The engine barely turns when I set the Main Switch to either Bat 1
>> or ALL and won't start.  If I change the switch to Bat 2, all 12V
>> electrical activity on the boat instantly stops.  If I put the portable
>> battery pack onto my starter battery with the switch in the ALL position,
>> the engine will go however, it still feels like the starter is turning too
>> slowly.
>>
>> I'm looking for a single cause to explain all this as up til now, the
>> system has functioned well for the 10 years I've owned the boat.  I would
>> appreciate any suggestions
>>
>> Wade
>> Oh Boy, C 33 MK II
>>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Dave S via CnC-List]

Wade, 

The main and most troublesome grounding point on my 33-2 was the stud on the 
engine behind the starter motor.My suggestion (also) is to start there.   
All clean, corrosion free and solid contact.  This was my first trouble spot 
and most impactful.

Dave.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:34 PM, Wade Glew  wrote:
> 
> thanks you.
> 
> Ok,  I'll get a volt meter to check the batteries directly.  
>  if I'm to check all the grounds, I take this to mean:  follow the batteries 
> back to wherever the system grounds to the engine block to begin with.  Then 
> each of the battery terminals and finally to where the battery banks come to 
> the main ground bus?   I'm really a rookie with electrical stuff so be 
> specific if you can.
> 
> Wade 
> Oh Boy C 33 MK II
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 1:14 PM Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Agreed, sounds like a bad ground.  Voltage is one thing; but enough current 
>> to crank is another, and definitely something that will be adversely 
>> affected by bad ground continuity.
>> 
>> — Fred
>> 
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>> 
>>> On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Clean all the ground connections.
>>> 
>>> Dennis C.
>>> 
 On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:26 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List 
  wrote:
 Hello listers,  I would appreciate any advice you might have on my 
 electrical issue du jour.  
 
 Mine is a C 33 MK II and I have a Link 20 battery monitoring system.  
 Bank 1 (house) is 4 Trojan T-105 (225 AH) 6V  deep cycles about 5 years 
 old.  Bank 2 is a 12V starter battery dated 2005.  I look after my 
 batteries pretty well and the system seemed to be operating normally.  I 
 have a True Charge 40 battery charger.   One morning after several days 
 out sailing, drinking lots of cold beer from the fridge and lots of music 
 playing) and running the engine very little, the engine would not start.  
 Starter turned slow, felt like no battery power.  I had the Master Switch 
 on 1 so I turned the switch to Battery 2 at which point all 12V electrical 
 activity on the boat stopped working altogether.  Prior to switching to 
 Bat 2, the Link 20 showed my starter battery at 12.4V with estimated time 
 on battery remaining at 225 hours.  I put a portable battery pack onto my 
 starter battery and it read 12.4 V from the battery.  However, powering up 
 the battery pack and connecting to my starter battery allowed me to start 
 the engine.  
 
 I went back to harbour and replaced my starter battery with a brand new 
 1000 cranking amps 12V battery.  I charged by shore power overnight then 
 left for a few more days on the water. 
 
 Now, the current circumstance is this.  
 When connected to shore power and Main Switch set to Bat 1,  I see normal 
 charging voltages to both battery banks.  
 When under engine and Main Switch set to ALL, I see normal charging to 
 both batteries.   
 After sitting overnight on anchor, I see both Bank 1 and Bank 2 are 
 resting at about 12.5 V.  Both banks show plenty of reserve on the Link 
 20.  When I try to start the engine it feels again like I have low battery 
 power.  The engine barely turns when I set the Main Switch to either Bat 1 
 or ALL and won't start.  If I change the switch to Bat 2, all 12V 
 electrical activity on the boat instantly stops.  If I put the portable 
 battery pack onto my starter battery with the switch in the ALL position, 
 the engine will go however, it still feels like the starter is turning too 
 slowly.  
 
 I'm looking for a single cause to explain all this as up til now, the 
 system has functioned well for the 10 years I've owned the boat.  I would 
 appreciate any suggestions
 
 Wade
 Oh Boy, C 33 MK II
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Best to disconnect all the battery cables both positive and negative, clean
them and reconnect them.  Get yourself some Ultra Safety Systems TefGel (
https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=546)
and coat the connections with it.  Clean both ends of the cables.

Like Fred said, measuring voltage is only part of the story.  You're really
looking for current.  A corroded connection may show adequate voltage but
may be incapable of passing enough current to start your engine.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 1:34 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> thanks you.
>
> Ok,  I'll get a volt meter to check the batteries directly.
>  if I'm to check all the grounds, I take this to mean:  follow the
> batteries back to wherever the system grounds to the engine block to begin
> with.  Then each of the battery terminals and finally to where the battery
> banks come to the main ground bus?   I'm really a rookie with electrical
> stuff so be specific if you can.
>
> Wade
> Oh Boy C 33 MK II
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 1:14 PM Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Agreed, sounds like a bad ground.  Voltage is one thing; but enough
>> current to crank is another, and definitely something that will be
>> adversely affected by bad ground continuity.
>>
>> — Fred
>>
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>>
>> On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Clean all the ground connections.
>>
>> Dennis C.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:26 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello listers,  I would appreciate any advice you might have on my
>>> electrical issue du jour.
>>>
>>> Mine is a C 33 MK II and I have a Link 20 battery monitoring system.
>>> Bank 1 (house) is 4 Trojan T-105 (225 AH) 6V  deep cycles about 5 years
>>> old.  Bank 2 is a 12V starter battery dated 2005.  I look after my
>>> batteries pretty well and the system seemed to be operating normally.  I
>>> have a True Charge 40 battery charger.   One morning after several days out
>>> sailing, drinking lots of cold beer from the fridge and lots of music
>>> playing) and running the engine very little, the engine would not start.
>>> Starter turned slow, felt like no battery power.  I had the Master Switch
>>> on 1 so I turned the switch to Battery 2 at which point all 12V electrical
>>> activity on the boat stopped working altogether.  Prior to switching to Bat
>>> 2, the Link 20 showed my starter battery at 12.4V with estimated time on
>>> battery remaining at 225 hours.  I put a portable battery pack onto my
>>> starter battery and it read 12.4 V from the battery.  However, powering up
>>> the battery pack and connecting to my starter battery allowed me to start
>>> the engine.
>>>
>>> I went back to harbour and replaced my starter battery with a brand new
>>> 1000 cranking amps 12V battery.  I charged by shore power overnight then
>>> left for a few more days on the water.
>>>
>>> Now, the current circumstance is this.
>>> When connected to shore power and Main Switch set to Bat 1,  I see
>>> normal charging voltages to both battery banks.
>>> When under engine and Main Switch set to ALL, I see normal charging to
>>> both batteries.
>>> After sitting overnight on anchor, I see both Bank 1 and Bank 2 are
>>> resting at about 12.5 V.  Both banks show plenty of reserve on the Link
>>> 20.  When I try to start the engine it feels again like I have low battery
>>> power.  The engine barely turns when I set the Main Switch to either Bat 1
>>> or ALL and won't start.  If I change the switch to Bat 2, all 12V
>>> electrical activity on the boat instantly stops.  If I put the portable
>>> battery pack onto my starter battery with the switch in the ALL position,
>>> the engine will go however, it still feels like the starter is turning too
>>> slowly.
>>>
>>> I'm looking for a single cause to explain all this as up til now, the
>>> system has functioned well for the 10 years I've owned the boat.  I would
>>> appreciate any suggestions
>>>
>>> Wade
>>> Oh Boy, C 33 MK II
>>>
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send 

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Wade Glew via CnC-List]

thanks you.

Ok,  I'll get a volt meter to check the batteries directly.
 if I'm to check all the grounds, I take this to mean:  follow the
batteries back to wherever the system grounds to the engine block to begin
with.  Then each of the battery terminals and finally to where the battery
banks come to the main ground bus?   I'm really a rookie with electrical
stuff so be specific if you can.

Wade
Oh Boy C 33 MK II

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 1:14 PM Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Agreed, sounds like a bad ground.  Voltage is one thing; but enough
> current to crank is another, and definitely something that will be
> adversely affected by bad ground continuity.
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>
> On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Clean all the ground connections.
>
> Dennis C.
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:26 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello listers,  I would appreciate any advice you might have on my
>> electrical issue du jour.
>>
>> Mine is a C 33 MK II and I have a Link 20 battery monitoring system.
>> Bank 1 (house) is 4 Trojan T-105 (225 AH) 6V  deep cycles about 5 years
>> old.  Bank 2 is a 12V starter battery dated 2005.  I look after my
>> batteries pretty well and the system seemed to be operating normally.  I
>> have a True Charge 40 battery charger.   One morning after several days out
>> sailing, drinking lots of cold beer from the fridge and lots of music
>> playing) and running the engine very little, the engine would not start.
>> Starter turned slow, felt like no battery power.  I had the Master Switch
>> on 1 so I turned the switch to Battery 2 at which point all 12V electrical
>> activity on the boat stopped working altogether.  Prior to switching to Bat
>> 2, the Link 20 showed my starter battery at 12.4V with estimated time on
>> battery remaining at 225 hours.  I put a portable battery pack onto my
>> starter battery and it read 12.4 V from the battery.  However, powering up
>> the battery pack and connecting to my starter battery allowed me to start
>> the engine.
>>
>> I went back to harbour and replaced my starter battery with a brand new
>> 1000 cranking amps 12V battery.  I charged by shore power overnight then
>> left for a few more days on the water.
>>
>> Now, the current circumstance is this.
>> When connected to shore power and Main Switch set to Bat 1,  I see normal
>> charging voltages to both battery banks.
>> When under engine and Main Switch set to ALL, I see normal charging to
>> both batteries.
>> After sitting overnight on anchor, I see both Bank 1 and Bank 2 are
>> resting at about 12.5 V.  Both banks show plenty of reserve on the Link
>> 20.  When I try to start the engine it feels again like I have low battery
>> power.  The engine barely turns when I set the Main Switch to either Bat 1
>> or ALL and won't start.  If I change the switch to Bat 2, all 12V
>> electrical activity on the boat instantly stops.  If I put the portable
>> battery pack onto my starter battery with the switch in the ALL position,
>> the engine will go however, it still feels like the starter is turning too
>> slowly.
>>
>> I'm looking for a single cause to explain all this as up til now, the
>> system has functioned well for the 10 years I've owned the boat.  I would
>> appreciate any suggestions
>>
>> Wade
>> Oh Boy, C 33 MK II
>>
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Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Agreed, sounds like a bad ground.  Voltage is one thing; but enough current to 
crank is another, and definitely something that will be adversely affected by 
bad ground continuity.

— Fred

Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI

> On Aug 13, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Clean all the ground connections.
> 
> Dennis C.
> 
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:26 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> Hello listers,  I would appreciate any advice you might have on my electrical 
> issue du jour.  
> 
> Mine is a C 33 MK II and I have a Link 20 battery monitoring system.  Bank 
> 1 (house) is 4 Trojan T-105 (225 AH) 6V  deep cycles about 5 years old.  Bank 
> 2 is a 12V starter battery dated 2005.  I look after my batteries pretty well 
> and the system seemed to be operating normally.  I have a True Charge 40 
> battery charger.   One morning after several days out sailing, drinking lots 
> of cold beer from the fridge and lots of music playing) and running the 
> engine very little, the engine would not start.  Starter turned slow, felt 
> like no battery power.  I had the Master Switch on 1 so I turned the switch 
> to Battery 2 at which point all 12V electrical activity on the boat stopped 
> working altogether.  Prior to switching to Bat 2, the Link 20 showed my 
> starter battery at 12.4V with estimated time on battery remaining at 225 
> hours.  I put a portable battery pack onto my starter battery and it read 
> 12.4 V from the battery.  However, powering up the battery pack and 
> connecting to my starter battery allowed me to start the engine.  
> 
> I went back to harbour and replaced my starter battery with a brand new 1000 
> cranking amps 12V battery.  I charged by shore power overnight then left for 
> a few more days on the water. 
> 
> Now, the current circumstance is this.  
> When connected to shore power and Main Switch set to Bat 1,  I see normal 
> charging voltages to both battery banks.  
> When under engine and Main Switch set to ALL, I see normal charging to both 
> batteries.   
> After sitting overnight on anchor, I see both Bank 1 and Bank 2 are resting 
> at about 12.5 V.  Both banks show plenty of reserve on the Link 20.  When I 
> try to start the engine it feels again like I have low battery power.  The 
> engine barely turns when I set the Main Switch to either Bat 1 or ALL and 
> won't start.  If I change the switch to Bat 2, all 12V electrical activity on 
> the boat instantly stops.  If I put the portable battery pack onto my starter 
> battery with the switch in the ALL position, the engine will go however, it 
> still feels like the starter is turning too slowly.  
> 
> I'm looking for a single cause to explain all this as up til now, the system 
> has functioned well for the 10 years I've owned the boat.  I would appreciate 
> any suggestions
> 
> Wade
> Oh Boy, C 33 MK II
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Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Wade,

There is too little information about the interconnecting wiring of your
boat.  To get started you need a portable volt meter and reading directly
off the battery terminals.  Second, disregard the capacity readings from
the Link 20.  As discussed previously with Edd Schillay the capacity shown
by ANY capacity meter is very suspect and will absolutely not show state of
charge.  The closest/best readily available indicator of SoC is voltage.
Normal full charge 100% =12.7V NO LOAD.  Dead 0% = 10.5V NO LOAD but you
should at all costs avoid going below 50% so 11.6v under NO LOAD is your
bottom limit on TERMINAL voltage.

I did a video series on charge/discharge profiles and SoC.

Properties of Lead Acid Batteries #1 - Surface charge -
https://youtu.be/vbsFt5aaLOU
Properties of Lead Acid Batteries #2 - Discharge Amp-Hours -
https://youtu.be/wfx-i7_AKw4
Properties of Lead Acid Batteries #3 - Charging Amp-Hours -
https://youtu.be/PvT-I4WtgPU


Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD




On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 1:26 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Hello listers,  I would appreciate any advice you might have on my
> electrical issue du jour.
>
> Mine is a C 33 MK II and I have a Link 20 battery monitoring system.
> Bank 1 (house) is 4 Trojan T-105 (225 AH) 6V  deep cycles about 5 years
> old.  Bank 2 is a 12V starter battery dated 2005.  I look after my
> batteries pretty well and the system seemed to be operating normally.  I
> have a True Charge 40 battery charger.   One morning after several days out
> sailing, drinking lots of cold beer from the fridge and lots of music
> playing) and running the engine very little, the engine would not start.
> Starter turned slow, felt like no battery power.  I had the Master Switch
> on 1 so I turned the switch to Battery 2 at which point all 12V electrical
> activity on the boat stopped working altogether.  Prior to switching to Bat
> 2, the Link 20 showed my starter battery at 12.4V with estimated time on
> battery remaining at 225 hours.  I put a portable battery pack onto my
> starter battery and it read 12.4 V from the battery.  However, powering up
> the battery pack and connecting to my starter battery allowed me to start
> the engine.
>
> I went back to harbour and replaced my starter battery with a brand new
> 1000 cranking amps 12V battery.  I charged by shore power overnight then
> left for a few more days on the water.
>
> Now, the current circumstance is this.
> When connected to shore power and Main Switch set to Bat 1,  I see normal
> charging voltages to both battery banks.
> When under engine and Main Switch set to ALL, I see normal charging to
> both batteries.
> After sitting overnight on anchor, I see both Bank 1 and Bank 2 are
> resting at about 12.5 V.  Both banks show plenty of reserve on the Link
> 20.  When I try to start the engine it feels again like I have low battery
> power.  The engine barely turns when I set the Main Switch to either Bat 1
> or ALL and won't start.  If I change the switch to Bat 2, all 12V
> electrical activity on the boat instantly stops.  If I put the portable
> battery pack onto my starter battery with the switch in the ALL position,
> the engine will go however, it still feels like the starter is turning too
> slowly.
>
> I'm looking for a single cause to explain all this as up til now, the
> system has functioned well for the 10 years I've owned the boat.  I would
> appreciate any suggestions
>
> Wade
> Oh Boy, C 33 MK II
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> 
> <#m_3471274330670671026_m_-1338774584522469203_m_-2373592999341665657_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> ___
>
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> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Clean all the ground connections.

Dennis C.

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:26 PM Wade Glew via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello listers,  I would appreciate any advice you might have on my
> electrical issue du jour.
>
> Mine is a C 33 MK II and I have a Link 20 battery monitoring system.
> Bank 1 (house) is 4 Trojan T-105 (225 AH) 6V  deep cycles about 5 years
> old.  Bank 2 is a 12V starter battery dated 2005.  I look after my
> batteries pretty well and the system seemed to be operating normally.  I
> have a True Charge 40 battery charger.   One morning after several days out
> sailing, drinking lots of cold beer from the fridge and lots of music
> playing) and running the engine very little, the engine would not start.
> Starter turned slow, felt like no battery power.  I had the Master Switch
> on 1 so I turned the switch to Battery 2 at which point all 12V electrical
> activity on the boat stopped working altogether.  Prior to switching to Bat
> 2, the Link 20 showed my starter battery at 12.4V with estimated time on
> battery remaining at 225 hours.  I put a portable battery pack onto my
> starter battery and it read 12.4 V from the battery.  However, powering up
> the battery pack and connecting to my starter battery allowed me to start
> the engine.
>
> I went back to harbour and replaced my starter battery with a brand new
> 1000 cranking amps 12V battery.  I charged by shore power overnight then
> left for a few more days on the water.
>
> Now, the current circumstance is this.
> When connected to shore power and Main Switch set to Bat 1,  I see normal
> charging voltages to both battery banks.
> When under engine and Main Switch set to ALL, I see normal charging to
> both batteries.
> After sitting overnight on anchor, I see both Bank 1 and Bank 2 are
> resting at about 12.5 V.  Both banks show plenty of reserve on the Link
> 20.  When I try to start the engine it feels again like I have low battery
> power.  The engine barely turns when I set the Main Switch to either Bat 1
> or ALL and won't start.  If I change the switch to Bat 2, all 12V
> electrical activity on the boat instantly stops.  If I put the portable
> battery pack onto my starter battery with the switch in the ALL position,
> the engine will go however, it still feels like the starter is turning too
> slowly.
>
> I'm looking for a single cause to explain all this as up til now, the
> system has functioned well for the 10 years I've owned the boat.  I would
> appreciate any suggestions
>
> Wade
> Oh Boy, C 33 MK II
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> 
> <#m_9111459185063831982_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

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to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice?

[Bill Bina]

There is not a lot to a masthead light. I would suggest that you just 
bring a bulb, some solder, a butane soldering iron, some tape, an xacto 
knife, and maybe even a spare socket and a few bits of shrink tubing. 
The bulb and socket are very inexpensive items. From the deck, all you 
can really test is if you have 12 volts and a good ground at the lower 
end of the wire, and you can detect that you have either a blown bulb, a 
corroded contact or a broken wire somewhere making for an open circuit. 
Very high probability that the socket is simply corroded a little. You 
would be cleaning the contacts anyway, even if the repair is replacing 
the bulb.


I have a rig for climbing the mast myself. It's basically a home made 
version of the ATN topclimber, made with better parts. I always try to 
bring everything I can think of with me, including a camera, and 
minimize trips.


Bill Bina

On 5/15/2013 10:38 AM, Robert Abbott wrote:
After steeping the mast, I hooked up the various lights (running, bow, 
foredeck).Mast head light did not come onmy guess is a blown 
bulb or the bulb connection could be bad.


I am no electrician but I do have a digital multimeter.  Is there a 
'test' with the multimeter that can suggest that it is a blown bulb or 
a bad bulb connection?


A simple 'yes' answer will not suffice.step by step explanation 
would be helpful.


I ask this because getting the the top of my mast is a 3 person 
taskone to up, one to grind and one to tail.  If I know it is the 
bulb, I can plan for a fix accordingly.


Bob Abbott
AZURA
CC 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.




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Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice?

[Dennis C.]

Set your meter to read resistance (ohms)
Touch the red and black probes together to test the meter.  You should see 0 
ohms when touching and OL (out of limits) when not touching
Attach the common (black) probe to a ground wire (black or yellow) at the mast 
base junction

Touch the meter's red probe to the positive wires at the junction

Readings

Out of limits - open circuit, i.e. burned out bulb or bulb not making good 
contact in socket

Some ohm reading - resistance shows good bulb
0 ohms - shorted circuit

Dennis C.





 From: Robert Abbott robertabb...@eastlink.ca
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:38 AM
Subject: Stus-List Electrical Advice?
 

After steeping the mast, I hooked up the various lights (running, bow, 
foredeck).    Mast head light did not come onmy guess is a blown 
bulb or the bulb connection could be bad.

I am no electrician but I do have a digital multimeter.  Is there a 
'test' with the multimeter that can suggest that it is a blown bulb or a 
bad bulb connection?

A simple 'yes' answer will not suffice.step by step explanation 
would be helpful.

I ask this because getting the the top of my mast is a 3 person 
taskone to up, one to grind and one to tail.  If I know it is the 
bulb, I can plan for a fix accordingly.

Bob Abbott
AZURA
CC 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.




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Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice?

[Stevan Plavsa]

I don't think that a continuity check will help.
If the bulb is blown = no connectivity.
If the fixture is corroded/bad connection = no connectivity.

I might be wrong on the blown bulb but that's my take on it.
I could check with the multimeter that you are getting 12V at the base of
the mast where the lights connect. That way you at least know whether the
problem is on top of the mast (blown bulb, bad connection) or somewhere
more accessible (between your panel and the mast).

Set the multimeter to DC and put the positive and negative leads on the
appropriate wire connections wherever your mast wiring goes to .. should
read 12.something with the power on. If no reading then your problem is not
on the mast.

Steve
Suhana, CC 32
Toronto


On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 10:53 AM, Robert Abbott robertabb...@eastlink.cawrote:

 Bill Coleman wrote:

 an ohm meter check through the positive and negative wires should show
 connectivity
 if the filament is not blown. 


 O.K., so what do I look for doing an ohm meter check?   What should the
 ohm meter be reading if the bulb is not blown?


 Bob Abbott
 AZURA
 CC 32 - 84
 Halifax, NS





 On 2013/05/15 11:44 AM, Bill Coleman wrote:

 I am no electrician, but I would think that (if it is a regular bulb) an
 ohm
 meter check through the positive and negative wires should show
 connectivity
 if the filament is not blown.

 Bill Coleman
 CC 39


 -Original Message-
 From: CnC-List 
 [mailto:cnc-list-bounces@cnc-**list.comcnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
 On Behalf Of Robert
 Abbott
 Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 10:39 AM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Stus-List Electrical Advice?

 After steeping the mast, I hooked up the various lights (running, bow,
 foredeck).Mast head light did not come onmy guess is a blown
 bulb or the bulb connection could be bad.

 I am no electrician but I do have a digital multimeter.  Is there a
 'test' with the multimeter that can suggest that it is a blown bulb or a
 bad bulb connection?

 A simple 'yes' answer will not suffice.step by step explanation
 would be helpful.

 I ask this because getting the the top of my mast is a 3 person
 taskone to up, one to grind and one to tail.  If I know it is the
 bulb, I can plan for a fix accordingly.

 Bob Abbott
 AZURA
 CC 32 - 84
 Halifax, N.S.




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Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice?

[Leslie Paal]

Unfortunately there is no way to isolate the problem between a blown bulb or a 
bad connection in the socket.  Both will read as open circuit; a good bulb and 
connection should read a few Ohms of resistance. (Cold bulb less than 5)  Make 
sure you have good, clean connection at the mast base.


Leslie
Phoenix CC32



 From: Bill Coleman colt...@verizon.net
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice?
 

I am no electrician, but I would think that (if it is a regular bulb) an ohm
meter check through the positive and negative wires should show connectivity
if the filament is not blown. 

Bill Coleman
CC 39 


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Abbott
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 10:39 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Electrical Advice?

After steeping the mast, I hooked up the various lights (running, bow, 
foredeck).    Mast head light did not come onmy guess is a blown 
bulb or the bulb connection could be bad.

I am no electrician but I do have a digital multimeter.  Is there a 
'test' with the multimeter that can suggest that it is a blown bulb or a 
bad bulb connection?

A simple 'yes' answer will not suffice.step by step explanation 
would be helpful.

I ask this because getting the the top of my mast is a 3 person 
taskone to up, one to grind and one to tail.  If I know it is the 
bulb, I can plan for a fix accordingly.

Bob Abbott
AZURA
CC 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.




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Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice?

[Leslie Paal]

Make sure the battery 12V is NOT connecter to the circuit, i.e. the masthead 
light switch is not on.  You can fry your meter otherwise or at least get 
incorrect result.


Leslie



 From: Dennis C. capt...@yahoo.com
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice?
 


Set your meter to read resistance (ohms)
Touch the red and black probes together to test the meter.  You should see 0 
ohms when touching and OL (out of limits) when not touching
Attach the common (black) probe to a ground wire (black or yellow) at the mast 
base junction

Touch the meter's red probe to the positive wires at the junction

Readings

Out of limits - open circuit, i.e. burned out bulb or bulb not making good 
contact in socket

Some ohm reading - resistance shows good bulb
0 ohms - shorted circuit

Dennis C.





 From: Robert Abbott robertabb...@eastlink.ca
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:38 AM
Subject: Stus-List Electrical Advice?
 

After steeping the mast, I hooked up the various
 lights (running, bow, 
foredeck).    Mast head light did not come onmy guess is a blown 
bulb or the bulb connection could be bad.

I am no electrician but I do have a digital multimeter.  Is there a 
'test' with the multimeter that can suggest that it is a blown bulb or a 
bad bulb connection?

A simple 'yes' answer will not suffice.step by step explanation 
would be helpful.

I ask this because getting the the top of my mast is a 3 person 
taskone to up, one to grind and one to tail.  If I know it is the 
bulb, I can plan for a fix accordingly.

Bob Abbott
AZURA
CC 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.




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Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice?

[dwight veinot]

Yes...measure ohms across the wires at the base of the mast

Dwight Veinot
CC 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
 
-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Abbott
Sent: May 15, 2013 11:39 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Electrical Advice?

After steeping the mast, I hooked up the various lights (running, bow, 
foredeck).Mast head light did not come onmy guess is a blown 
bulb or the bulb connection could be bad.

I am no electrician but I do have a digital multimeter.  Is there a 
'test' with the multimeter that can suggest that it is a blown bulb or a 
bad bulb connection?

A simple 'yes' answer will not suffice.step by step explanation 
would be helpful.

I ask this because getting the the top of my mast is a 3 person 
taskone to up, one to grind and one to tail.  If I know it is the 
bulb, I can plan for a fix accordingly.

Bob Abbott
AZURA
CC 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.




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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3162/5825 - Release Date: 05/15/13


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Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice?

[dwight veinot]

12 V OFF, just test across the 2 wires leading to the light.disconnect them
at the base of the mast, a reading of zero ohms suggests a blown bulb, bad
connection for the bulb or broken wire (s).

 

Dwight Veinot

CC 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Abbott
Sent: May 15, 2013 12:32 PM
To: Dennis C.; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Electrical Advice?

 

Dennis:

Thank you for the step by step advice.   I have the meter here now and it
reads 0 ohms when I touch the red and black probes..my meter reads 1
.  when not touching.not OL (out of limits) .  I guess all meters
are not the same.

One more question.when I do this test, do I have the 12V switch for the
mast head light ON or OFF at the electrical panel?

I told you I was no electrician!

Bob Abbott
AZURA
CC 32 - 84 
Halifax, NS



On 2013/05/15 11:56 AM, Dennis C. wrote:

Set your meter to read resistance (ohms)
Touch the red and black probes together to test the meter.  You should see 0
ohms when touching and OL (out of limits) when not touching
Attach the common (black) probe to a ground wire (black or yellow) at the
mast base junction

Touch the meter's red probe to the positive wires at the junction

 

Readings

 

Out of limits - open circuit, i.e. burned out bulb or bulb not making good
contact in socket

Some ohm reading - resistance shows good bulb

0 ohms - shorted circuit

 

Dennis C.

 


  _  


From: Robert Abbott  mailto:robertabb...@eastlink.ca
robertabb...@eastlink.ca
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:38 AM
Subject: Stus-List Electrical Advice?


After steeping the mast, I hooked up the various lights (running, bow, 
foredeck).Mast head light did not come onmy guess is a blown 
bulb or the bulb connection could be bad.

I am no electrician but I do have a digital multimeter.  Is there a 
'test' with the multimeter that can suggest that it is a blown bulb or a 
bad bulb connection?

A simple 'yes' answer will not suffice.step by step explanation 
would be helpful.

I ask this because getting the the top of my mast is a 3 person 
taskone to up, one to grind and one to tail.  If I know it is the 
bulb, I can plan for a fix accordingly.

Bob Abbott
AZURA
CC 32 - 84
Halifax, N.S.




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Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice?

[Leslie Paal]

0 ohms is short, not blown bulb
OL or very high reading is open circuit, blown bulb, bad connection, etc.


Leslie



 From: dwight veinot dwightvei...@hfx.eastlink.ca
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice?
 


 
12 V OFF, just test across the 2 wires
leading to the light…disconnect them at the base of the mast, a reading
of zero ohms suggests a blown bulb, bad connection for the bulb or broken wire
(s).
 
Dwight Veinot
CC 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
 


 
From:CnC-List
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On
Behalf Of Robert Abbott
Sent: May 15, 2013 12:32 PM
To: Dennis C. ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Electrical
Advice?
 
Dennis:

Thank you for the step by step advice.   I have the meter here now
and it reads 0 ohms when I touch the red and black probes..my
meter reads 1  .  when not touching.not OL (out of limits)
.  I guess all meters are not the same.

One more question.when I do this test, do I have the 12V switch for the
mast head light ON or OFF at the electrical panel?

I told you I was no electrician!

Bob Abbott
AZURA
CC 32 - 84 
Halifax , NS



On 2013/05/15 11:56 AM, Dennis C. 
wrote:
Set your
meter to read resistance (ohms)
Touch the red and black probes together to test the meter.  You should see
0 ohms when touching and OL (out of limits) when not touching
Attach the common (black) probe to a ground wire (black or yellow) at the mast
base junction
Touch the
meter's red probe to the positive wires at the junction
 
Readings
 
Out of limits - open
circuit, i.e. burned out bulb or bulb not making good contact in socket
Some ohm reading -
resistance shows good bulb
0 ohms - shorted circuit
 
Dennis C.
 


 
From:Robert Abbott robertabb...@eastlink.ca
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:38
AM
Subject: Stus-List Electrical
Advice?

After steeping the mast, I hooked up the various lights (running, bow, 
foredeck).    Mast head light did not come onmy guess is a blown 
bulb or the bulb connection could be bad.

I am no electrician but I do have a digital multimeter.  Is there a 
'test' with the multimeter that can suggest that it is a blown bulb or a 
bad bulb connection?

A simple 'yes' answer will not suffice.step by step explanation 
would be helpful.

I ask this because getting the the top of my mast is a 3 person 
taskone to up, one to grind and one to tail.  If I know it is the 
bulb, I can plan for a fix accordingly.

Bob Abbott
AZURA
CC 32 - 84
Halifax , N.S.




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Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice?

[dwight veinot]

Leslie 

 

Yes you are correct Leslie, I must have been asleep and I hope Bob found his
problem despite my incorrect advice

 

Sorry Bob 

 

Dwight Veinot

CC 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Leslie
Paal
Sent: May 15, 2013 6:08 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice?

 

0 ohms is short, not blown bulb
OL or very high reading is open circuit, blown bulb, bad connection, etc.

Leslie

  _  

From: dwight veinot dwightvei...@hfx.eastlink.ca
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electrical Advice?

 

12 V OFF, just test across the 2 wires leading to the light.disconnect them
at the base of the mast, a reading of zero ohms suggests a blown bulb, bad
connection for the bulb or broken wire (s).

 

Dwight Veinot

CC 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Abbott
Sent: May 15, 2013 12:32 PM
To: Dennis C. ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Electrical Advice?

 

Dennis:

Thank you for the step by step advice.   I have the meter here now and it
reads 0 ohms when I touch the red and black probes..my meter reads 1
.  when not touching.not OL (out of limits) .  I guess all meters
are not the same.

One more question.when I do this test, do I have the 12V switch for the
mast head light ON or OFF at the electrical panel?

I told you I was no electrician!

Bob Abbott
AZURA
CC 32 - 84 
Halifax , NS



On 2013/05/15 11:56 AM, Dennis C. wrote:

Set your meter to read resistance (ohms)
Touch the red and black probes together to test the meter.  You should see 0
ohms when touching and OL (out of limits) when not touching
Attach the common (black) probe to a ground wire (black or yellow) at the
mast base junction

Touch the meter's red probe to the positive wires at the junction

 

Readings

 

Out of limits - open circuit, i.e. burned out bulb or bulb not making good
contact in socket

Some ohm reading - resistance shows good bulb

0 ohms - shorted circuit

 

Dennis C.

 


  _  


From: Robert Abbott  mailto:robertabb...@eastlink.ca
robertabb...@eastlink.ca
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 9:38 AM
Subject: Stus-List Electrical Advice?


After steeping the mast, I hooked up the various lights (running, bow, 
foredeck).Mast head light did not come onmy guess is a blown 
bulb or the bulb connection could be bad.

I am no electrician but I do have a digital multimeter.  Is there a 
'test' with the multimeter that can suggest that it is a blown bulb or a 
bad bulb connection?

A simple 'yes' answer will not suffice.step by step explanation 
would be helpful.

I ask this because getting the the top of my mast is a 3 person 
taskone to up, one to grind and one to tail.  If I know it is the 
bulb, I can plan for a fix accordingly.

Bob Abbott
AZURA
CC 32 - 84
Halifax , N.S.




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Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3162/5825 - Release Date: 05/15/13


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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3162/5825 - Release Date: 05/15/13

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