Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement (now RRS 50.3)
As always, check with your local handicapping authority and carefully read the sailing instructions for each race/regatta. I seem to recall specific instructions on related issues in some event documents. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement (now RRS 50.3)
The US Sailing Appeal that dealt with using your body to push out a sheet involved the crew member’s leg and foot (legal). I believe you are correct about the limitation of leaning out on a boat that has lifelines, but that is a different issue than the outrigger prohibition. I think we’re all straightened out. From: Michael Brown via CnC-List Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2018 12:00 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Michael Brown Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement (now RRS 50.3) Thanks for pointing out the case study, looks to be pretty clear on the topic. I had asked about the use of a reaching strut and was told it was an outrigger. Maybe the ISAF findings are not applicable here, no idea. I will check again and specifically point out that case. So leaning out as long as the torso is not outside of the lifelines ( RRS 48.2 ) and holding a sheet is fine. There may be an reaching strut project in my future. I didn't see your update before I emailed. I have the list set to digest mode so I get some delay in seeing everyone's emails. I don't always check them promptly either, sometimes busy or away. I do enjoy them, always informative. Or funny. Or both. Michael Brown Windburn C 30-1 Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2018 17:32:28 -0500 From: "Matthew L. Wolford" One last thing on this topic: there are two reported cases indicating that a person leaning out holding a sheet is also not an outrigger. From: Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2018 12:09 PM Cc: Matthew L. Wolford Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement (now RRS 50.3) Michael: I assume that you sent your note below about there being no exception for reaching struts before I sent my note about Case 97. I don?t know who decides cases arising under the Rules these days (I used to follow Cases and US Sailing Appeals), but it used to be the ISAF Racing Rules Committee (International Sailing Federation). I believe the organization is now called World Sailing or something. When a Case is decided, that establishes how a Rule is to be interpreted unless there is a contrary US Sailing prescription (on my side of the pond). I assume that Canada has a similar prescription process. After your note about reaching struts yesterday, I searched RacingRulesOfSailing.org to see if any cases had been decided under Rule 50.3 about reaching struts being a prohibited outrigger. I found Case 97, which interpreted the term ?outrigger? as used in Rule 50.3 to not prohibit ?jockey poles? because they redirect the guy, not a sheet or a sail. A jockey pole is the same thing as a reaching strut, so I do not understand your follow-up comment below that you ?have not found an exception.? Case 97 clearly interprets the term ?outrigger? as not applying to jockey poles (i.e., reaching struts). Am I missing something? Matt Wolford C 42 Custom From: Michael Brown via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 5:55 PM The topic of outriggers came up a while back and I asked specifically about any disclaimers for a reaching strut. I agree that it is a safety and rigging saving consideration as opposed to something that improves performance. I have not found an exception so it looks like it falls under the outrigger classification. Telling racers that they cannot lean over the lifelines and hold a jib out because outriggers are not permitted usually draws a blank stare also. Somewhat related are other clubs appointing a technical committee in observance of RRS 60.4? I am the PHRF handicapper at a Toronto club, the National Yacht Club, so took on that role also. No protests so far, I felt that gentle education of the rules was required first. We have about 200 senior members ( skippers ) and got just over 90 PHRF certificates issued this year. Experience levels range from the world champions in the Beneteau First 36.7 OD, first in IRC and LO300 to never have raced before. It makes deciding on what to enforce a bit difficult. Particularly when it doesn't make sense. Michael Brown Windburn C 30-1 ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement (now RRS 50.3)
Thanks for pointing out the case study, looks to be pretty clear on the topic. I had asked about the use of a reaching strut and was told it was an outrigger. Maybe the ISAF findings are not applicable here, no idea. I will check again and specifically point out that case. So leaning out as long as the torso is not outside of the lifelines ( RRS 48.2 ) and holding a sheet is fine. There may be an reaching strut project in my future. I didn't see your update before I emailed. I have the list set to digest mode so I get some delay in seeing everyone's emails. I don't always check them promptly either, sometimes busy or away. I do enjoy them, always informative. Or funny. Or both. Michael Brown Windburn C 30-1 Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2018 17:32:28 -0500 From: "Matthew L. Wolford" One last thing on this topic: there are two reported cases indicating that a person leaning out holding a sheet is also not an outrigger. From: Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2018 12:09 PM Cc: Matthew L. Wolford Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement (now RRS 50.3) Michael: I assume that you sent your note below about there being no exception for reaching struts before I sent my note about Case 97. I don?t know who decides cases arising under the Rules these days (I used to follow Cases and US Sailing Appeals), but it used to be the ISAF Racing Rules Committee (International Sailing Federation). I believe the organization is now called World Sailing or something. When a Case is decided, that establishes how a Rule is to be interpreted unless there is a contrary US Sailing prescription (on my side of the pond). I assume that Canada has a similar prescription process. After your note about reaching struts yesterday, I searched RacingRulesOfSailing.org to see if any cases had been decided under Rule 50.3 about reaching struts being a prohibited outrigger. I found Case 97, which interpreted the term ?outrigger? as used in Rule 50.3 to not prohibit ?jockey poles? because they redirect the guy, not a sheet or a sail. A jockey pole is the same thing as a reaching strut, so I do not understand your follow-up comment below that you ?have not found an exception.? Case 97 clearly interprets the term ?outrigger? as not applying to jockey poles (i.e., reaching struts). Am I missing something? Matt Wolford C 42 Custom From: Michael Brown via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 5:55 PM The topic of outriggers came up a while back and I asked specifically about any disclaimers for a reaching strut. I agree that it is a safety and rigging saving consideration as opposed to something that improves performance. I have not found an exception so it looks like it falls under the outrigger classification. Telling racers that they cannot lean over the lifelines and hold a jib out because outriggers are not permitted usually draws a blank stare also. Somewhat related are other clubs appointing a technical committee in observance of RRS 60.4? I am the PHRF handicapper at a Toronto club, the National Yacht Club, so took on that role also. No protests so far, I felt that gentle education of the rules was required first. We have about 200 senior members ( skippers ) and got just over 90 PHRF certificates issued this year. Experience levels range from the world champions in the Beneteau First 36.7 OD, first in IRC and LO300 to never have raced before. It makes deciding on what to enforce a bit difficult. Particularly when it doesn't make sense. Michael Brown Windburn C 30-1 ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement (now RRS 50.3)
Never thought there was any question to that. If you're using a boat-hook, that is obviously illegal, but as far as you can reach, has always been legal, at least to my recollection. ? Bill On Saturday, December 8, 2018 Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List wrote: One last thing on this topic: there are two reported cases indicating that a person leaning out holding a sheet is also not an outrigger. From: Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2018 12:09 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Matthew L. Wolford Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement (now RRS 50.3) Michael: I assume that you sent your note below about there being no exception for reaching struts before I sent my note about Case 97. I don’t know who decides cases arising under the Rules these days (I used to follow Cases and US Sailing Appeals), but it used to be the ISAF Racing Rules Committee (International Sailing Federation). I believe the organization is now called World Sailing or something. When a Case is decided, that establishes how a Rule is to be interpreted unless there is a contrary US Sailing prescription (on my side of the pond). I assume that Canada has a similar prescription process. After your note about reaching struts yesterday, I searched RacingRulesOfSailing.org to see if any cases had been decided under Rule 50.3 about reaching struts being a prohibited outrigger. I found Case 97, which interpreted the term “outrigger” as used in Rule 50.3 to not prohibit “jockey poles” because they redirect the guy, not a sheet or a sail. A jockey pole is the same thing as a reaching strut, so I do not understand your follow-up comment below that you “have not found an exception.” Case 97 clearly interprets the term “outrigger” as not applying to jockey poles (i.e., reaching struts). Am I missing something? Matt Wolford C 42 Custom From: Michael Brown via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 5:55 PMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Michael Brown Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement The topic of outriggers came up a while back and I asked specifically about any disclaimersfor a reaching strut. I agree that it is a safety and rigging saving consideration as opposed tosomething that improves performance. I have not found an exception so it looks like it fallsunder the outrigger classification. Telling racers that they cannot lean over the lifelines and hold a jib out because outriggersare not permitted usually draws a blank stare also. Somewhat related are other clubs appointing a technical committee in observance ofRRS 60.4? I am the PHRF handicapper at a Toronto club, the National Yacht Club, sotook on that role also. No protests so far, I felt that gentle education of the rules wasrequired first. We have about 200 senior members ( skippers ) and got just over 90PHRF certificates issued this year. Experience levels range from the world championsin the Beneteau First 36.7 OD, first in IRC and LO300 to never have raced before. It makes deciding on what to enforce a bit difficult. Particularly when it doesn't make sense. Michael BrownWindburnC 30-1 ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement (now RRS 50.3)
One last thing on this topic: there are two reported cases indicating that a person leaning out holding a sheet is also not an outrigger. From: Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2018 12:09 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Matthew L. Wolford Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement (now RRS 50.3) Michael: I assume that you sent your note below about there being no exception for reaching struts before I sent my note about Case 97. I don’t know who decides cases arising under the Rules these days (I used to follow Cases and US Sailing Appeals), but it used to be the ISAF Racing Rules Committee (International Sailing Federation). I believe the organization is now called World Sailing or something. When a Case is decided, that establishes how a Rule is to be interpreted unless there is a contrary US Sailing prescription (on my side of the pond). I assume that Canada has a similar prescription process. After your note about reaching struts yesterday, I searched RacingRulesOfSailing.org to see if any cases had been decided under Rule 50.3 about reaching struts being a prohibited outrigger. I found Case 97, which interpreted the term “outrigger” as used in Rule 50.3 to not prohibit “jockey poles” because they redirect the guy, not a sheet or a sail. A jockey pole is the same thing as a reaching strut, so I do not understand your follow-up comment below that you “have not found an exception.” Case 97 clearly interprets the term “outrigger” as not applying to jockey poles (i.e., reaching struts). Am I missing something? Matt Wolford C 42 Custom From: Michael Brown via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 5:55 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Michael Brown Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement The topic of outriggers came up a while back and I asked specifically about any disclaimers for a reaching strut. I agree that it is a safety and rigging saving consideration as opposed to something that improves performance. I have not found an exception so it looks like it falls under the outrigger classification. Telling racers that they cannot lean over the lifelines and hold a jib out because outriggers are not permitted usually draws a blank stare also. Somewhat related are other clubs appointing a technical committee in observance of RRS 60.4? I am the PHRF handicapper at a Toronto club, the National Yacht Club, so took on that role also. No protests so far, I felt that gentle education of the rules was required first. We have about 200 senior members ( skippers ) and got just over 90 PHRF certificates issued this year. Experience levels range from the world champions in the Beneteau First 36.7 OD, first in IRC and LO300 to never have raced before. It makes deciding on what to enforce a bit difficult. Particularly when it doesn't make sense. Michael Brown Windburn C 30-1 ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement (now RRS 50.3)
Michael: I assume that you sent your note below about there being no exception for reaching struts before I sent my note about Case 97. I don’t know who decides cases arising under the Rules these days (I used to follow Cases and US Sailing Appeals), but it used to be the ISAF Racing Rules Committee (International Sailing Federation). I believe the organization is now called World Sailing or something. When a Case is decided, that establishes how a Rule is to be interpreted unless there is a contrary US Sailing prescription (on my side of the pond). I assume that Canada has a similar prescription process. After your note about reaching struts yesterday, I searched RacingRulesOfSailing.org to see if any cases had been decided under Rule 50.3 about reaching struts being a prohibited outrigger. I found Case 97, which interpreted the term “outrigger” as used in Rule 50.3 to not prohibit “jockey poles” because they redirect the guy, not a sheet or a sail. A jockey pole is the same thing as a reaching strut, so I do not understand your follow-up comment below that you “have not found an exception.” Case 97 clearly interprets the term “outrigger” as not applying to jockey poles (i.e., reaching struts). Am I missing something? Matt Wolford C 42 Custom From: Michael Brown via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 5:55 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Michael Brown Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement The topic of outriggers came up a while back and I asked specifically about any disclaimers for a reaching strut. I agree that it is a safety and rigging saving consideration as opposed to something that improves performance. I have not found an exception so it looks like it falls under the outrigger classification. Telling racers that they cannot lean over the lifelines and hold a jib out because outriggers are not permitted usually draws a blank stare also. Somewhat related are other clubs appointing a technical committee in observance of RRS 60.4? I am the PHRF handicapper at a Toronto club, the National Yacht Club, so took on that role also. No protests so far, I felt that gentle education of the rules was required first. We have about 200 senior members ( skippers ) and got just over 90 PHRF certificates issued this year. Experience levels range from the world champions in the Beneteau First 36.7 OD, first in IRC and LO300 to never have raced before. It makes deciding on what to enforce a bit difficult. Particularly when it doesn't make sense. Michael Brown Windburn C 30-1 ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement - death roll
Forgot to mention that we still laugh about the second event as the helmsman was on his knees behind the wheel, waist deep in water, with the white of his eyes showing around his sunglasses. This after a Off Soundings race, heading from Gardner's Bay to Block Island, some ten years ago. Don Kern Fireball C Mk2 Bristol, RI On 12/7/2018 10:36 PM, Donald Kern via CnC-List wrote: Been there, done that! In the two instances was after racing, running home (both times 5 hour of sailing), crew relaxing with beers, helmsman being not that experienced. Each time dug the pole into the ocean. First time bent the pole's closing pin at the mast and bent the mast fitting, both had to be replaced. Second time we did it, the pole slammed down on the life lines to the extend that it pulled the aft pulpit out of the deck fittings on the port side, almost lost the #1 genny and the crewman lying on it overboard and also put solid water into the cockpit. For a reason I do not understand the that helmsman never sailed with us again (his choice). Don Kern Fireball C Mk2 Bristol, RI ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement - death roll
Been there, done that! In the two instances was after racing, running home (both times 5 hour of sailing), crew relaxing with beers, helmsman being not that experienced. Each time dug the pole into the ocean. First time bent the pole's closing pin at the mast and bent the mast fitting, both had to be replaced. Second time we did it, the pole slammed down on the life lines to the extend that it pulled the aft pulpit out of the deck fittings on the port side, almost lost the #1 genny and the crewman lying on it overboard and also put solid water into the cockpit. For a reason I do not understand the that helmsman never sailed with us again (his choice). Don Kern Fireball C Mk2 Bristol, RI On 12/7/2018 4:32 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: Our rule to minimize the possibility of a death roll is to NEVER, EVER let the center seam of the chute be to windward of the forestay in heavy breeze. That's on the guy trimmer. It's one of the few things one can do on Touche' where you get yelled at by me. Ease the pole forward so the center seam is 1-2 feet to leeward of the forestay. If the boat starts to heel to windward, ease the pole more and trim the chute IN, not out. Pulling the chute behind the main will lessen the chance of a death roll. Unfortunately, the natural tendency of most trimmers is to ease or release a sail in such a situation. If the chute is eased, it will swing further to windward and drag the boat down into a death roll. Bad, bad scene. For non-racers, death rolls are scary bad. They can occur when sailing dead downwind with the chute poled out. The boat can become unstable and start into a "windshield wiper" oscillation. If extreme, the boat heels well to windward and the pole enters the water. The speed of the boat can snap the pole's bridle or downhaul and the pole will pivot into the shrouds. It can bring the rig down. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement - death roll
In addition to what Don said, using the lazy guy instead of the sheet, pulls the clew down, and then you can even the clews by moving the pole down at the mast, easing the topping lift and tightening the foreguy. All of these adjustments move the center of effort down, further lessening the oscillations. Alan Bergen 35 Mk III Thirsty Rose City YC Portland, OR On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 1:33 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: > Our rule to minimize the possibility of a death roll is to NEVER, EVER let > the center seam of the chute be to windward of the forestay in heavy > breeze. That's on the guy trimmer. It's one of the few things one can do > on Touche' where you get yelled at by me. > > Ease the pole forward so the center seam is 1-2 feet to leeward of the > forestay. If the boat starts to heel to windward, ease the pole more and > trim the chute IN, not out. Pulling the chute behind the main will lessen > the chance of a death roll. Unfortunately, the natural tendency of most > trimmers is to ease or release a sail in such a situation. If the chute is > eased, it will swing further to windward and drag the boat down into a > death roll. Bad, bad scene. > > For non-racers, death rolls are scary bad. They can occur when sailing > dead downwind with the chute poled out. The boat can become unstable and > start into a "windshield wiper" oscillation. If extreme, the boat heels > well to windward and the pole enters the water. The speed of the boat can > snap the pole's bridle or downhaul and the pole will pivot into the > shrouds. It can bring the rig down. > > Dennis C. > Touche' 35-1 #83 > Mandeville, LA > > On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 3:08 PM Don Kern via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> Two other advantages with this arrangement is that with the guy led into >> the toe rail amidships it also acts as a pole downhaul and when running >> dead before the wind, in very heavy blow we choke the spinnaker with the >> lazy guy to inhibit death roles. >> Don Kern >> Fireball C MK2 >> Bristol, RI >> >> >> >> ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.paypal.me_stumurray=DwICAg=clK7kQUTWtAVEOVIgvi0NU5BOUHhpN0H8p7CSfnc_gI=9w3G7Cf8YfQnrjmtuNxwDJYr3JMv9f1pAfgAJ9xXYQQ=nQDRkg2ZKn4F9ncFM1K9PH0GIXGba2jbrRaUmVFo1I8=UIoUo6te2wCWNcRzFyGN1AbITlxtKfUyweQTtKVtWaI= > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
Jockey poles and reaching struts are the same thing, and legal. I’ll take it. From: Bill Coleman via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 5:36 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Bill Coleman Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement These are what I consider outriggers. https://www.cnn.com/videos/sports/2017/01/20/vendee-globe-armel-le-cleach-around-the-world-solo-sailing-race-world-record-mainsail-orig.cnn Does that mean you don’t want my strut? Bill Coleman C 39 Erie, PA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 5:19 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Matthew L. Wolford Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement FYI, from the RRS interpretative case law: Case 97 Rule 50.3, Setting and Sheeting Sails: Use of Outriggers A jockey pole attached to a spinnaker guy is not an outrigger. Question Is a jockey pole (a pole that exerts outward pressure on the line that controls the fore and aft position of a spinnaker pole) an outrigger? Answer No. When a spinnaker pole is set, the line that controls the fore and aft position of that pole is a guy, not a sheet. A jockey pole putting outward pressure on a guy is therefore not an outrigger, defined by rule 50.3(a) as a "fitting or device" that exerts "outward pressure on a sheet or sail". I believe what the case refers to as a “jockey pole” is the same thing as a “reaching strut.” From: Michael Brown via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 4:16 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Michael Brown Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement I had taken it from the RRS 50.3 that a reaching strut in not allowed in a race. Michael Brown Windburn C 30-1 Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 13:53:44 -0500 From: "Matthew L. Wolford" Yes, the inboard end attaches to a fitting (usually a ring) on the mast. There should be a fitting on each side, as you noted. The guy runs through the outboard end of the strut. The purpose is to improve the sheeting angle on a pole as it is let forward. (By the time the pole is near the headstay, the guy is pulling almost straight back.) An added benefit is that it prevents unwanted stress on the stanchions due to the guy pushing inward. Given the large loads on my boat, it comes in very handy. If I didn?t race the boat from time to time, it would probably stay in the storage locker. ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
The topic of outriggers came up a while back and I asked specifically about any disclaimers for a reaching strut. I agree that it is a safety and rigging saving consideration as opposed to something that improves performance. I have not found an exception so it looks like it falls under the outrigger classification. Telling racers that they cannot lean over the lifelines and hold a jib out because outriggers are not permitted usually draws a blank stare also. Somewhat related are other clubs appointing a technical committee in observance of RRS 60.4? I am the PHRF handicapper at a Toronto club, the National Yacht Club, so took on that role also. No protests so far, I felt that gentle education of the rules was required first. We have about 200 senior members ( skippers ) and got just over 90 PHRF certificates issued this year. Experience levels range from the world champions in the Beneteau First 36.7 OD, first in IRC and LO300 to never have raced before. It makes deciding on what to enforce a bit difficult. Particularly when it doesn't make sense. Michael Brown Windburn C 30-1 Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 17:05:25 -0500 From: "Matthew L. Wolford" I was unaware of this Rule, which I just reviewed. It doesn?t make sense to me to bar a reaching strut, but it sure looks like you are correct. From: Michael Brown via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 4:16 PM I had taken it from the RRS 50.3 that a reaching strut in not allowed in a race. Michael Brown Windburn C 30-1 ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
These are what I consider outriggers. https://www.cnn.com/videos/sports/2017/01/20/vendee-globe-armel-le-cleach-around-the-world-solo-sailing-race-world-record-mainsail-orig.cnn Does that mean you don’t want my strut? Bill Coleman C 39 Erie, PAanimated_favicon1 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 5:19 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Matthew L. Wolford Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement FYI, from the RRS interpretative case law: Case 97 Rule 50.3, Setting and Sheeting Sails: Use of Outriggers A jockey pole attached to a spinnaker guy is not an outrigger. Question Is a jockey pole (a pole that exerts outward pressure on the line that controls the fore and aft position of a spinnaker pole) an outrigger? Answer No. When a spinnaker pole is set, the line that controls the fore and aft position of that pole is a guy, not a sheet. A jockey pole putting outward pressure on a guy is therefore not an outrigger, defined by rule 50.3(a) as a "fitting or device" that exerts "outward pressure on a sheet or sail". I believe what the case refers to as a “jockey pole” is the same thing as a “reaching strut.” From: Michael Brown <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 4:16 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Michael Brown <mailto:m...@tkg.ca> Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement I had taken it from the RRS 50.3 that a reaching strut in not allowed in a race. Michael Brown Windburn C 30-1 Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 13:53:44 -0500 From: "Matthew L. Wolford" Yes, the inboard end attaches to a fitting (usually a ring) on the mast. There should be a fitting on each side, as you noted. The guy runs through the outboard end of the strut. The purpose is to improve the sheeting angle on a pole as it is let forward. (By the time the pole is near the headstay, the guy is pulling almost straight back.) An added benefit is that it prevents unwanted stress on the stanchions due to the guy pushing inward. Given the large loads on my boat, it comes in very handy. If I didn?t race the boat from time to time, it would probably stay in the storage locker. _ ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
FYI, from the RRS interpretative case law: Case 97 Rule 50.3, Setting and Sheeting Sails: Use of Outriggers A jockey pole attached to a spinnaker guy is not an outrigger. Question Is a jockey pole (a pole that exerts outward pressure on the line that controls the fore and aft position of a spinnaker pole) an outrigger? Answer No. When a spinnaker pole is set, the line that controls the fore and aft position of that pole is a guy, not a sheet. A jockey pole putting outward pressure on a guy is therefore not an outrigger, defined by rule 50.3(a) as a "fitting or device" that exerts "outward pressure on a sheet or sail". I believe what the case refers to as a “jockey pole” is the same thing as a “reaching strut.” From: Michael Brown via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 4:16 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Michael Brown Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement I had taken it from the RRS 50.3 that a reaching strut in not allowed in a race. Michael Brown Windburn C 30-1 Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 13:53:44 -0500 From: "Matthew L. Wolford" Yes, the inboard end attaches to a fitting (usually a ring) on the mast. There should be a fitting on each side, as you noted. The guy runs through the outboard end of the strut. The purpose is to improve the sheeting angle on a pole as it is let forward. (By the time the pole is near the headstay, the guy is pulling almost straight back.) An added benefit is that it prevents unwanted stress on the stanchions due to the guy pushing inward. Given the large loads on my boat, it comes in very handy. If I didn?t race the boat from time to time, it would probably stay in the storage locker. ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
I was unaware of this Rule, which I just reviewed. It doesn’t make sense to me to bar a reaching strut, but it sure looks like you are correct. From: Michael Brown via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 4:16 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Michael Brown Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement I had taken it from the RRS 50.3 that a reaching strut in not allowed in a race. Michael Brown Windburn C 30-1 Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 13:53:44 -0500 From: "Matthew L. Wolford" Yes, the inboard end attaches to a fitting (usually a ring) on the mast. There should be a fitting on each side, as you noted. The guy runs through the outboard end of the strut. The purpose is to improve the sheeting angle on a pole as it is let forward. (By the time the pole is near the headstay, the guy is pulling almost straight back.) An added benefit is that it prevents unwanted stress on the stanchions due to the guy pushing inward. Given the large loads on my boat, it comes in very handy. If I didn?t race the boat from time to time, it would probably stay in the storage locker. ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement - death roll
I’m getting nervous just sitting here reading about it. In my view, it’s the scariest part of racing, and C of our vintage – at least mine – get pushed around by quartering waves, making a round up more likely. From: Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 4:32 PM To: CnClist Cc: Dennis C. Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement - death roll Our rule to minimize the possibility of a death roll is to NEVER, EVER let the center seam of the chute be to windward of the forestay in heavy breeze. That's on the guy trimmer. It's one of the few things one can do on Touche' where you get yelled at by me. Ease the pole forward so the center seam is 1-2 feet to leeward of the forestay. If the boat starts to heel to windward, ease the pole more and trim the chute IN, not out. Pulling the chute behind the main will lessen the chance of a death roll. Unfortunately, the natural tendency of most trimmers is to ease or release a sail in such a situation. If the chute is eased, it will swing further to windward and drag the boat down into a death roll. Bad, bad scene. For non-racers, death rolls are scary bad. They can occur when sailing dead downwind with the chute poled out. The boat can become unstable and start into a "windshield wiper" oscillation. If extreme, the boat heels well to windward and the pole enters the water. The speed of the boat can snap the pole's bridle or downhaul and the pole will pivot into the shrouds. It can bring the rig down. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 3:08 PM Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: Two other advantages with this arrangement is that with the guy led into the toe rail amidships it also acts as a pole downhaul and when running dead before the wind, in very heavy blow we choke the spinnaker with the lazy guy to inhibit death roles. Don Kern Fireball C MK2 Bristol, RI ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
I have a reaching strut out in the pole barn from my old Redwing 35 (C 35-1). It breaks down into three pieces. Anyone that is willing to pay shipping cost, it's yours. Neil Schiller C 35-3, #028, "Grace" Whitehall, Michigan WLYC On 12/7/2018 12:03 PM, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List wrote: Listers: Different topic for the collective wisdom of the group. The reaching strut that came with my boat did not match up with the deck mounts, both in terms of the end fittings and pole length. I bought replacement deck mount fittings and was going to mount them closer together, but decided to study the issue to try to figure out why a prior owner shortened the strut (and whether a longer strut is necessary). We concluded this past summer that: a) the extra foot or so of length will definitely help protect the aft stanchions much better; and b) the prior owner probably broke the original strut and decided to rebuild it using the undamaged portion (or obtained a replacement strut from someone else). The tubing is 3 1/2”. I am only aware of Forespar selling this type/size tubing. I need about 6 1/2’ of tubing, but the shortest length Forespar sells is 12 feet, which is expensive. Shipping is also expensive, even if the pole is cut to the desired length. I really don’t want to spend $500 or so to extend the reaching strut to its original length. Suggestions? Matt Wolford C 42 Custom Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement - death roll
Our rule to minimize the possibility of a death roll is to NEVER, EVER let the center seam of the chute be to windward of the forestay in heavy breeze. That's on the guy trimmer. It's one of the few things one can do on Touche' where you get yelled at by me. Ease the pole forward so the center seam is 1-2 feet to leeward of the forestay. If the boat starts to heel to windward, ease the pole more and trim the chute IN, not out. Pulling the chute behind the main will lessen the chance of a death roll. Unfortunately, the natural tendency of most trimmers is to ease or release a sail in such a situation. If the chute is eased, it will swing further to windward and drag the boat down into a death roll. Bad, bad scene. For non-racers, death rolls are scary bad. They can occur when sailing dead downwind with the chute poled out. The boat can become unstable and start into a "windshield wiper" oscillation. If extreme, the boat heels well to windward and the pole enters the water. The speed of the boat can snap the pole's bridle or downhaul and the pole will pivot into the shrouds. It can bring the rig down. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 3:08 PM Don Kern via CnC-List wrote: > Two other advantages with this arrangement is that with the guy led into > the toe rail amidships it also acts as a pole downhaul and when running > dead before the wind, in very heavy blow we choke the spinnaker with the > lazy guy to inhibit death roles. > Don Kern > Fireball C MK2 > Bristol, RI > > > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
I had taken it from the RRS 50.3 that a reaching strut in not allowed in a race. Michael Brown Windburn C 30-1 Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 13:53:44 -0500 From: "Matthew L. Wolford" Yes, the inboard end attaches to a fitting (usually a ring) on the mast. There should be a fitting on each side, as you noted. The guy runs through the outboard end of the strut. The purpose is to improve the sheeting angle on a pole as it is let forward. (By the time the pole is near the headstay, the guy is pulling almost straight back.) An added benefit is that it prevents unwanted stress on the stanchions due to the guy pushing inward. Given the large loads on my boat, it comes in very handy. If I didn?t race the boat from time to time, it would probably stay in the storage locker. ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
I race quite a bit (more than I cruise) and I have not used the reaching strut in years, though it carried below on the shelf above the v-berth. We use both a sheet and a guy attached to each clue. The sheet is lead to a turning blocks at the aft most opening on the toe rail, the guy is lead to a snatch block on the toe rail about a foot aft of the lower-aft shroud, then inboard aft to the cockpit. In light air we will drop the guy and just go with the sheet. The shackle of the guy is normally hooked into the ring of the sheet's shackle. For spinnaker take downs we grab the lazy guy, easy since there is no tension on it, lead it over the life line down the companionway into cabin. Then let the pole go forward and blow the sheet's shackle (guy is hooked into the sheet) and haul the chute down behind the main. Two other advantages with this arrangement is that with the guy led into the toe rail amidships it also acts as a pole downhaul and when running dead before the wind, in very heavy blow we choke the spinnaker with the lazy guy to inhibit death roles. Don Kern Fireball C MK2 Bristol, RI On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:04 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote: Listers: Different topic for the collective wisdom of the group. The reaching strut that came with my boat did not match up with the deck mounts, both in terms of the end fittings and pole length. I bought replacement deck mount fittings and was going to mount them closer together, but decided to study the issue to try to figure out why a prior owner shortened the strut (and whether a longer strut is necessary). We concluded this past summer that: a) the extra foot or so of length will definitely help protect the aft stanchions much better; and b) the prior owner probably broke the original strut and decided to rebuild it using the undamaged portion (or obtained a replacement strut from someone else). The tubing is 3 1/2”. I am only aware of Forespar selling this type/size tubing. I need about 6 1/2’ of tubing, but the shortest length Forespar sells is 12 feet, which is expensive. Shipping is also expensive, even if the pole is cut to the desired length. I really don’t want to spend $500 or so to extend the reaching strut to its original length. Suggestions? Matt Wolford C 42 Custom Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray -- Sent from Gmail Mobile ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
Yes, the inboard end attaches to a fitting (usually a ring) on the mast. There should be a fitting on each side, as you noted. The guy runs through the outboard end of the strut. The purpose is to improve the sheeting angle on a pole as it is let forward. (By the time the pole is near the headstay, the guy is pulling almost straight back.) An added benefit is that it prevents unwanted stress on the stanchions due to the guy pushing inward. Given the large loads on my boat, it comes in very handy. If I didn’t race the boat from time to time, it would probably stay in the storage locker. From: dwight veinot via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 1:31 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: dwight veinot Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement I got a reaching strut with Alianna. Never used it but i thought its inboard end was supposed to attach to a ring on the mast. I have 2 rings one on either side of the mastthat seem like they were there for that purpose. Also got a blooper and also never used that. I am down to using only 2 sails nowadays my RF 135 and the mainsail if i am not to lazy to hoist it in which case just the RF 135. Many of u sail that way On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 2:23 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: No clue. You can always paint it. Dennis C. On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:34 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List wrote: That’s awesome – thanks. Do you know if it’s similar grade (thickness) and anodized? From: Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 12:27 PM To: CnClist Cc: Dennis C. Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement BTW, you can buy 7 feet of 3.5 aluminum tubing for $102 online at: https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4740=4=inches=71_cat=0 Just make sure you are buying the correct ID and OD. Dennis C. On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:04 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List wrote: Listers: Different topic for the collective wisdom of the group. The reaching strut that came with my boat did not match up with the deck mounts, both in terms of the end fittings and pole length. I bought replacement deck mount fittings and was going to mount them closer together, but decided to study the issue to try to figure out why a prior owner shortened the strut (and whether a longer strut is necessary). We concluded this past summer that: a) the extra foot or so of length will definitely help protect the aft stanchions much better; and b) the prior owner probably broke the original strut and decided to rebuild it using the undamaged portion (or obtained a replacement strut from someone else). The tubing is 3 1/2”. I am only aware of Forespar selling this type/size tubing. I need about 6 1/2’ of tubing, but the shortest length Forespar sells is 12 feet, which is expensive. Shipping is also expensive, even if the pole is cut to the desired length. I really don’t want to spend $500 or so to extend the reaching strut to its original length. Suggestions? Matt Wolford C 42 Custom Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray -- Sent from Gmail Mobile ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
I got a reaching strut with Alianna. Never used it but i thought its inboard end was supposed to attach to a ring on the mast. I have 2 rings one on either side of the mastthat seem like they were there for that purpose. Also got a blooper and also never used that. I am down to using only 2 sails nowadays my RF 135 and the mainsail if i am not to lazy to hoist it in which case just the RF 135. Many of u sail that way On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 2:23 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List wrote: > No clue. You can always paint it. > > Dennis C. > > On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:34 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> That’s awesome – thanks. Do you know if it’s similar grade (thickness) >> and anodized? >> >> *From:* Dennis C. via CnC-List >> *Sent:* Friday, December 07, 2018 12:27 PM >> *To:* CnClist >> *Cc:* Dennis C. >> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement >> >> BTW, you can buy 7 feet of 3.5 aluminum tubing for $102 online at: >> >> >> https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4740=4=inches=71_cat=0 >> >> Just make sure you are buying the correct ID and OD. >> >> Dennis C. >> >> On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:04 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List < >> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: >> >>> Listers: >>> >>> Different topic for the collective wisdom of the group. The >>> reaching strut that came with my boat did not match up with the deck >>> mounts, both in terms of the end fittings and pole length. I bought >>> replacement deck mount fittings and was going to mount them closer >>> together, but decided to study the issue to try to figure out why a prior >>> owner shortened the strut (and whether a longer strut is necessary). We >>> concluded this past summer that: a) the extra foot or so of length will >>> definitely help protect the aft stanchions much better; and b) the prior >>> owner probably broke the original strut and decided to rebuild it using the >>> undamaged portion (or obtained a replacement strut from someone else). >>> >>> The tubing is 3 1/2”. I am only aware of Forespar selling this >>> type/size tubing. I need about 6 1/2’ of tubing, but the shortest length >>> Forespar sells is 12 feet, which is expensive. Shipping is also expensive, >>> even if the pole is cut to the desired length. I really don’t want to >>> spend $500 or so to extend the reaching strut to its original length. >>> Suggestions? >>> >>> Matt Wolford >>> C 42 Custom >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each >>> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - >>> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each >>> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - >>> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >>> >>> -- >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each >> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - >> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each >> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - >> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> >> ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
No clue. You can always paint it. Dennis C. On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:34 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > That’s awesome – thanks. Do you know if it’s similar grade (thickness) > and anodized? > > *From:* Dennis C. via CnC-List > *Sent:* Friday, December 07, 2018 12:27 PM > *To:* CnClist > *Cc:* Dennis C. > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement > > BTW, you can buy 7 feet of 3.5 aluminum tubing for $102 online at: > > > https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4740=4=inches=71_cat=0 > > Just make sure you are buying the correct ID and OD. > > Dennis C. > > On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:04 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> Listers: >> >> Different topic for the collective wisdom of the group. The reaching >> strut that came with my boat did not match up with the deck mounts, both in >> terms of the end fittings and pole length. I bought replacement deck mount >> fittings and was going to mount them closer together, but decided to study >> the issue to try to figure out why a prior owner shortened the strut (and >> whether a longer strut is necessary). We concluded this past summer that: >> a) the extra foot or so of length will definitely help protect the aft >> stanchions much better; and b) the prior owner probably broke the original >> strut and decided to rebuild it using the undamaged portion (or obtained a >> replacement strut from someone else). >> >> The tubing is 3 1/2”. I am only aware of Forespar selling this >> type/size tubing. I need about 6 1/2’ of tubing, but the shortest length >> Forespar sells is 12 feet, which is expensive. Shipping is also expensive, >> even if the pole is cut to the desired length. I really don’t want to >> spend $500 or so to extend the reaching strut to its original length. >> Suggestions? >> >> Matt Wolford >> C 42 Custom >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each >> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - >> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each >> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - >> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> >> -- > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
Touche' has a very narrow stern so similar issue finding a fair lead for the guy. Touche' has a pad eye on the aft corner of the cockpit coaming where we attach a block to turn the guy to the winch. See: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ODrgzRQCFXcsabqslzNpjvXiCGEGly5C It isn't entirely fair but it works. Other choice would be the toe rail. The twing is attached to the toe rail near the widest beam. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:33 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > My boat’s pretty beamy (round) in the middle. I think if I > tweaked/twinged it would solve the stanchion issue from the tweak point > forward, but I would need to re-run the line to avoid the same problem from > the tweak point back to the winches. > > *From:* Dennis C. via CnC-List > *Sent:* Friday, December 07, 2018 12:23 PM > *To:* CnClist > *Cc:* Dennis C. > *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement > > I sold Touche's reaching strut to a fellow lister. He never used it. > > We use tweakers (twings). > > Dennis C. > Touche' 35-1 #83 > Mandeville, LA > > On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:04 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> Listers: >> >> Different topic for the collective wisdom of the group. The reaching >> strut that came with my boat did not match up with the deck mounts, both in >> terms of the end fittings and pole length. I bought replacement deck mount >> fittings and was going to mount them closer together, but decided to study >> the issue to try to figure out why a prior owner shortened the strut (and >> whether a longer strut is necessary). We concluded this past summer that: >> a) the extra foot or so of length will definitely help protect the aft >> stanchions much better; and b) the prior owner probably broke the original >> strut and decided to rebuild it using the undamaged portion (or obtained a >> replacement strut from someone else). >> >> The tubing is 3 1/2”. I am only aware of Forespar selling this >> type/size tubing. I need about 6 1/2’ of tubing, but the shortest length >> Forespar sells is 12 feet, which is expensive. Shipping is also expensive, >> even if the pole is cut to the desired length. I really don’t want to >> spend $500 or so to extend the reaching strut to its original length. >> Suggestions? >> >> Matt Wolford >> C 42 Custom >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each >> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - >> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each >> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - >> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> >> -- > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
That’s awesome – thanks. Do you know if it’s similar grade (thickness) and anodized? From: Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 12:27 PM To: CnClist Cc: Dennis C. Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement BTW, you can buy 7 feet of 3.5 aluminum tubing for $102 online at: https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4740=4=inches=71_cat=0 Just make sure you are buying the correct ID and OD. Dennis C. On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:04 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List wrote: Listers: Different topic for the collective wisdom of the group. The reaching strut that came with my boat did not match up with the deck mounts, both in terms of the end fittings and pole length. I bought replacement deck mount fittings and was going to mount them closer together, but decided to study the issue to try to figure out why a prior owner shortened the strut (and whether a longer strut is necessary). We concluded this past summer that: a) the extra foot or so of length will definitely help protect the aft stanchions much better; and b) the prior owner probably broke the original strut and decided to rebuild it using the undamaged portion (or obtained a replacement strut from someone else). The tubing is 3 1/2”. I am only aware of Forespar selling this type/size tubing. I need about 6 1/2’ of tubing, but the shortest length Forespar sells is 12 feet, which is expensive. Shipping is also expensive, even if the pole is cut to the desired length. I really don’t want to spend $500 or so to extend the reaching strut to its original length. Suggestions? Matt Wolford C 42 Custom Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
Lots of old spin poles at places like Bacon's. Cut one down, switch ends. But a new tube might be cheaper. On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 12:28 PM Dennis C. via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > BTW, you can buy 7 feet of 3.5 aluminum tubing for $102 online at: > > > https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4740=4=inches=71_cat=0 > > Just make sure you are buying the correct ID and OD. > > Dennis C. > > On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:04 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List < > cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > >> Listers: >> >> Different topic for the collective wisdom of the group. The reaching >> strut that came with my boat did not match up with the deck mounts, both in >> terms of the end fittings and pole length. I bought replacement deck mount >> fittings and was going to mount them closer together, but decided to study >> the issue to try to figure out why a prior owner shortened the strut (and >> whether a longer strut is necessary). We concluded this past summer that: >> a) the extra foot or so of length will definitely help protect the aft >> stanchions much better; and b) the prior owner probably broke the original >> strut and decided to rebuild it using the undamaged portion (or obtained a >> replacement strut from someone else). >> >> The tubing is 3 1/2”. I am only aware of Forespar selling this >> type/size tubing. I need about 6 1/2’ of tubing, but the shortest length >> Forespar sells is 12 feet, which is expensive. Shipping is also expensive, >> even if the pole is cut to the desired length. I really don’t want to >> spend $500 or so to extend the reaching strut to its original length. >> Suggestions? >> >> Matt Wolford >> C 42 Custom >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each >> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - >> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> >> ___ >> >> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each >> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - >> use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray >> >> ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
My boat’s pretty beamy (round) in the middle. I think if I tweaked/twinged it would solve the stanchion issue from the tweak point forward, but I would need to re-run the line to avoid the same problem from the tweak point back to the winches. From: Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 12:23 PM To: CnClist Cc: Dennis C. Subject: Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement I sold Touche's reaching strut to a fellow lister. He never used it. We use tweakers (twings). Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:04 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List wrote: Listers: Different topic for the collective wisdom of the group. The reaching strut that came with my boat did not match up with the deck mounts, both in terms of the end fittings and pole length. I bought replacement deck mount fittings and was going to mount them closer together, but decided to study the issue to try to figure out why a prior owner shortened the strut (and whether a longer strut is necessary). We concluded this past summer that: a) the extra foot or so of length will definitely help protect the aft stanchions much better; and b) the prior owner probably broke the original strut and decided to rebuild it using the undamaged portion (or obtained a replacement strut from someone else). The tubing is 3 1/2”. I am only aware of Forespar selling this type/size tubing. I need about 6 1/2’ of tubing, but the shortest length Forespar sells is 12 feet, which is expensive. Shipping is also expensive, even if the pole is cut to the desired length. I really don’t want to spend $500 or so to extend the reaching strut to its original length. Suggestions? Matt Wolford C 42 Custom Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
BTW, you can buy 7 feet of 3.5 aluminum tubing for $102 online at: https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4740=4=inches=71_cat=0 Just make sure you are buying the correct ID and OD. Dennis C. On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:04 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Listers: > > Different topic for the collective wisdom of the group. The reaching > strut that came with my boat did not match up with the deck mounts, both in > terms of the end fittings and pole length. I bought replacement deck mount > fittings and was going to mount them closer together, but decided to study > the issue to try to figure out why a prior owner shortened the strut (and > whether a longer strut is necessary). We concluded this past summer that: > a) the extra foot or so of length will definitely help protect the aft > stanchions much better; and b) the prior owner probably broke the original > strut and decided to rebuild it using the undamaged portion (or obtained a > replacement strut from someone else). > > The tubing is 3 1/2”. I am only aware of Forespar selling this > type/size tubing. I need about 6 1/2’ of tubing, but the shortest length > Forespar sells is 12 feet, which is expensive. Shipping is also expensive, > even if the pole is cut to the desired length. I really don’t want to > spend $500 or so to extend the reaching strut to its original length. > Suggestions? > > Matt Wolford > C 42 Custom > > > > > > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
I sold Touche's reaching strut to a fellow lister. He never used it. We use tweakers (twings). Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:04 AM Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote: > Listers: > > Different topic for the collective wisdom of the group. The reaching > strut that came with my boat did not match up with the deck mounts, both in > terms of the end fittings and pole length. I bought replacement deck mount > fittings and was going to mount them closer together, but decided to study > the issue to try to figure out why a prior owner shortened the strut (and > whether a longer strut is necessary). We concluded this past summer that: > a) the extra foot or so of length will definitely help protect the aft > stanchions much better; and b) the prior owner probably broke the original > strut and decided to rebuild it using the undamaged portion (or obtained a > replacement strut from someone else). > > The tubing is 3 1/2”. I am only aware of Forespar selling this > type/size tubing. I need about 6 1/2’ of tubing, but the shortest length > Forespar sells is 12 feet, which is expensive. Shipping is also expensive, > even if the pole is cut to the desired length. I really don’t want to > spend $500 or so to extend the reaching strut to its original length. > Suggestions? > > Matt Wolford > C 42 Custom > > > > > > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ > > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each > and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - > use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray > > ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Reaching Strut Pole replacement
Listers: Different topic for the collective wisdom of the group. The reaching strut that came with my boat did not match up with the deck mounts, both in terms of the end fittings and pole length. I bought replacement deck mount fittings and was going to mount them closer together, but decided to study the issue to try to figure out why a prior owner shortened the strut (and whether a longer strut is necessary). We concluded this past summer that: a) the extra foot or so of length will definitely help protect the aft stanchions much better; and b) the prior owner probably broke the original strut and decided to rebuild it using the undamaged portion (or obtained a replacement strut from someone else). The tubing is 3 1/2”. I am only aware of Forespar selling this type/size tubing. I need about 6 1/2’ of tubing, but the shortest length Forespar sells is 12 feet, which is expensive. Shipping is also expensive, even if the pole is cut to the desired length. I really don’t want to spend $500 or so to extend the reaching strut to its original length. Suggestions? Matt Wolford C 42 Custom Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
