Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Rule 2 would certainly cut down those pesky Swiss challenges 
Rule 5 needs to be amended to include a bottle of angustora bitters and swizzle 
sticks
Chuck Gilchrest 
S/V Half Magic

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 18, 2019, at 10:00 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Rules I want:
> 1.  The boats are crewed by natives.
> 2.  They sail from the challenging club to the site of the race.
> 3.  Boats must contain at least 1,000 pounds of teak.
> 4.  At least one person on each boat must look and sound like Thurston 
> Howell.
> 5.  Boats must carry ice, rum, pineapple juice, and a blender.
>  
>  
> Joe Della Barba
> Coquina
>  
>  
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary 
> Russell via CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 9:48 AM
> To: C List 
> Cc: Gary Russell 
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List America's Cup
>  
> I have to go with Chuck on this one.  I agree that innovation only comes from 
> racing and I wish that we required the boats to have native crews.
>  
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
> '90 C 37+
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[Don Kern via CnC-List]

The nationality rules are slowing changing.  For 2021 in New Zealand the 
rules dictate:


Twenty percent or three crew, whichever is higher, must be citizens of 
the country of the competing yacht club. The remainder of the crew can 
be made up of residents of the challenging yacht club’s country which is 
defined by being physically present in that country for a minimum of 380 
days over a two year period, between 1 September 2018 and 31 August 2020.


Don Kern
/Fireball /C 35 Mk2
Bristol, RI



On 9/18/2019 9:47 AM, Gary Russell via CnC-List wrote:
I have to go with Chuck on this one.  I agree that innovation only 
comes from racing and I wish that we required the boats to have native 
crews.


Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Also, the boat and sails had to be made from materials native to the
challenger's country.

Joel

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 11:47 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> During the early years, the NYYC could alter the defending boat based on
> the conditions of the day.  Challengers had to beat whatever boat America
> sent to the race.   Slightly biased.
>
>
> C
>
>
> On September 18, 2019 at 11:14 AM "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Rule 2 was an actual rule that gave a tremendous advantage to the Newport
> Yacht Club. Their Js and 12s could be as light as class rules allowed, they
> only had to sail about 20 miles from the dock in usually light summer
> conditions. Everyone else’s boats had to cross an ocean to get there and
> tended to be heavier.
>
>
>
> *Joe Della Barba*
>
> *Coquina*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *CHARLES
> SCHEAFFER via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 18, 2019 10:40 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List America's Cup
>
>
>
> That would be a fun regatta.
>
>
>
> On September 18, 2019 at 10:16 AM Richard Bush via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I second Joe's motion to amend the AC rules...
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> s/v Bushmark4: 19085 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584.4
>
> Richard N. Bush
>
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
>
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
>
> 502-584-7255
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
> Sent: Wed, Sep 18, 2019 10:01 am
> Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup
>
> Rules I want:
>
> 1.  The boats are crewed by natives.
>
> 2.  They sail from the challenging club to the site of the race.
>
> 3.  Boats must contain at least 1,000 pounds of teak.
>
> 4.  At least one person on each boat must look and sound like
> Thurston Howell.
>
> 5.  Boats must carry ice, rum, pineapple juice, and a blender.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Joe Della Barba*
>
> *Coquina*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and
> every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

During the early years, the NYYC could alter the defending boat based on the 
conditions of the day.  Challengers had to beat whatever boat America sent to 
the race.   Slightly biased.


C


> On September 18, 2019 at 11:14 AM "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Rule 2 was an actual rule that gave a tremendous advantage to the Newport 
> Yacht Club. Their Js and 12s could be as light as class rules allowed, they 
> only had to sail about 20 miles from the dock in usually light summer 
> conditions. Everyone else’s boats had to cross an ocean to get there and 
> tended to be heavier.
> 
>  
> 
> Joe Della Barba
> 
> Coquina
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
> CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 10:40 AM
>     To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List America's Cup
> 
>  
> 
> That would be a fun regatta.  
> 
>  
> 
> > > 
> > On September 18, 2019 at 10:16 AM Richard Bush via CnC-List 
> > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I second Joe's motion to amend the AC rules...
> > 
> > Richard
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > s/v Bushmark4: 19085 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584.4
> > 
> > Richard N. Bush
> > 
> > 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> > 
> > Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
> > 
> > 502-584-7255
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List  > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com >
> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com >
> > Cc: Della Barba, Joe  > mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov >
> > Sent: Wed, Sep 18, 2019 10:01 am
> > Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup
> > 
> > Rules I want:
> > 
> > 1.  The boats are crewed by natives.
> > 
> > 2.  They sail from the challenging club to the site of the race.
> > 
> > 3.  Boats must contain at least 1,000 pounds of teak.
> > 
> > 4.  At least one person on each boat must look and sound like 
> > Thurston Howell.
> > 
> > 5.  Boats must carry ice, rum, pineapple juice, and a blender.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Joe Della Barba
> > 
> > Coquina
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > ___
> > 
> > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. 
> > Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > 
> > > 


 

> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 


 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Rule 2 was an actual rule that gave a tremendous advantage to the Newport Yacht 
Club. Their Js and 12s could be as light as class rules allowed, they only had 
to sail about 20 miles from the dock in usually light summer conditions. 
Everyone else’s boats had to cross an ocean to get there and tended to be 
heavier.

Joe Della Barba
Coquina



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of CHARLES 
SCHEAFFER via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 10:40 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List America's Cup


That would be a fun regatta.


On September 18, 2019 at 10:16 AM Richard Bush via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

I second Joe's motion to amend the AC rules...
Richard

s/v Bushmark4: 19085 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584.4
Richard N. Bush
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
502-584-7255


-Original Message-
From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Della Barba, Joe mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>>
Sent: Wed, Sep 18, 2019 10:01 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup
Rules I want:
1.  The boats are crewed by natives.
2.  They sail from the challenging club to the site of the race.
3.  Boats must contain at least 1,000 pounds of teak.
4.  At least one person on each boat must look and sound like Thurston 
Howell.
5.  Boats must carry ice, rum, pineapple juice, and a blender.


Joe Della Barba
Coquina



___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List]

That would be a fun regatta.  


> On September 18, 2019 at 10:16 AM Richard Bush via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I second Joe's motion to amend the AC rules...
> Richard
> 
> s/v Bushmark4: 19085 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584.4
> Richard N. Bush
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
> 502-584-7255
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
> Sent: Wed, Sep 18, 2019 10:01 am
> Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup
> 
> Rules I want:
> 1.  The boats are crewed by natives.
> 2.  They sail from the challenging club to the site of the race.
> 3.  Boats must contain at least 1,000 pounds of teak.
> 4.  At least one person on each boat must look and sound like 
> Thurston Howell.
> 5.  Boats must carry ice, rum, pineapple juice, and a blender.
>  
>  
> Joe Della Barba
> Coquina
>  
>  
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[Richard Bush via CnC-List]

 
 I second Joe's motion to amend the AC rules...
Richard
 
s/v Bushmark4: 19085 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584.4
Richard N. Bush 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine 
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255 
 
-Original Message-
From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Sent: Wed, Sep 18, 2019 10:01 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup

 !-- #yiv5203815652 _filtered #yiv5203815652 {font-family:"Cambria Math"; 
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5203815652 {font-family:Calibri; 
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv5203815652 {font-family:"Rage 
Italic"; panose-1:3 7 5 2 4 5 7 7 3 4;} #yiv5203815652 #yiv5203815652 
p.yiv5203815652MsoNormal, #yiv5203815652 li.yiv5203815652MsoNormal, 
#yiv5203815652 div.yiv5203815652MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; 
font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman", serif;} #yiv5203815652 a:link, 
#yiv5203815652 span.yiv5203815652MsoHyperlink { color:blue; 
text-decoration:underline;} #yiv5203815652 a:visited, #yiv5203815652 
span.yiv5203815652MsoHyperlinkFollowed { color:purple; 
text-decoration:underline;} #yiv5203815652 p.yiv5203815652MsoListParagraph, 
#yiv5203815652 li.yiv5203815652MsoListParagraph, #yiv5203815652 
div.yiv5203815652MsoListParagraph { margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; 
margin-bottom:0in; margin-left:.5in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; 
font-family:"Times New Roman", serif;} #yiv5203815652 
span.yiv5203815652EmailStyle17 { font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif; 
color:#1F497D;} #yiv5203815652 .yiv5203815652MsoChpDefault { 
font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;} _filtered #yiv5203815652 { margin:1.0in 
1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} #yiv5203815652 div.yiv5203815652WordSection1 {} 
#yiv5203815652 _filtered #yiv5203815652 { } _filtered #yiv5203815652 { } 
_filtered #yiv5203815652 { } _filtered #yiv5203815652 { } _filtered 
#yiv5203815652 { } _filtered #yiv5203815652 { } _filtered #yiv5203815652 { } 
_filtered #yiv5203815652 { } _filtered #yiv5203815652 { } _filtered 
#yiv5203815652 { } #yiv5203815652 ol {margin-bottom:0in;} #yiv5203815652 ul 
{margin-bottom:0in;} --Rules I want: 1. The boats are crewed by 
natives. 2. They sail from the challenging club to the site of the race. 3. 
Boats must contain at least 1,000 pounds of teak. 4. At least one 
person on each boat must look and sound like Thurston Howell. 5. Boats must 
carry ice, rum, pineapple juice, and a blender.       Joe Della Barba Coquina   
   
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Rules I want:

1.  The boats are crewed by natives.

2.  They sail from the challenging club to the site of the race.

3.  Boats must contain at least 1,000 pounds of teak.

4.  At least one person on each boat must look and sound like Thurston 
Howell.

5.  Boats must carry ice, rum, pineapple juice, and a blender.



Joe Della Barba
Coquina




From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Russell 
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 9:48 AM
To: C List 
Cc: Gary Russell 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List America's Cup

I have to go with Chuck on this one.  I agree that innovation only comes from 
racing and I wish that we required the boats to have native crews.

Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[Gary Russell via CnC-List]

I have to go with Chuck on this one.  I agree that innovation only comes
from racing and I wish that we required the boats to have native crews.

Gary
S/V Kaylarah
'90 C 37+
East Greenwich, RI, USA
~~~_/)~~



On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 9:34 AM Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Neil,
>
> I’m going to have to side with Charlie on this one.  There’s no shortage
> of One Design regattas, perhaps the most relevant having been raced last
> weekend, the NYYC Resolute Cup, a Corinthian competition between amateur
> sailors from Yacht Clubs around the globe.  All sailing identical Melges
> IC37 boats.  It was very important racing for those clubs involved but
> received little interest outside of some industry related press.
>
> The America’s Cup has ALWAYS been a race that pitted crews and yacht
> designers and engineers, even from the very first competition.  When J
> Class, 12meter and ACC class boats were involved, there was always a “box
> rule” that allowed for creativity and design enhancements that would allow
> for innovation.  Without that innovation, we would never have molded sails,
> carbon fiber spars, or lightweight high modulus yacht ropes that are so
> popular with today’s racers.
>
>
>
> I’ve been a big AC fan ever since the 60’s and thought back then that
> Intrepid was the absolute pinnacle of sailboat racing design.  I would sit
> in middle school classes and try to duplicate her lines, her trim tab and
> rudder, drawing with a pencil using a French curve.  It fascinated me how
> different that boat was than all the other 12meters.  Where else but in a
> competition with virtually unlimited budgets would that sort of innovation
> be incubated and brought to fruition?  Think of how Ben Lexan’s winged keel
> threw the monkey wrench  into the world of sailboat design and it still
> finds its way into shoal draft keels on modern boats.  That would never
> happen if the Cup was strictly a one design event.
>
>
>
> My only regret is that the Cup competition no longer has a strong
> foundation with regards to home grown sailors.  The free agency of
> international talent with little regards to national representation has
> diluted the passion with which our country follows the event.  With such a
> domination of Aussie and Kiwi sailors in the cup, we appear to have lost
> the will to train local skippers and crew to reach for that gold ring of
> excellence that was once held by Dennis Connor, Bus Mosbacher, Paul Cayard,
> and even Bill Koch.  How to change that will depend on who winds up winning
> the Cup in this upcoming addition, but it is somewhat comforting that the
> US based challengers are using our country name to identify the syndicate
> rather than their corporate sponsor.
>
> Go Defiant!
>
> Chuck Gilchrest
>
> S/V Half Magic
>
> 1983 35 Landfall
>
> Padanaram, MA
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Neil
> Andersen via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 18, 2019 8:29 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Neil Andersen 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List America’s Cup
>
>
>
> Sorry, I’m with Charlie.  AC races should be about crews, not engineers.
>
>
>
> I’m all in favor of engineering breakthroughs, but the competitors should
> all be in the same boat and the race test the crew and cut of their sails.
>
>
>
> Neil
>
> 1982 C 32, FoxFire
>
> Rock Hall, MD
>
>
>
> Neil Andersen
>
> 20691 Jamieson Rd
>
> Rock Hall, MD 21661
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of CHARLES
> SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 17, 2019 10:02 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* CHARLES SCHEAFFER
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List America’s Cup
>
>
>
> Defiant looks awesome. They stated in a video that the boat foiled in her
> first 90 minutes of being on the water. The video shows her turning at
> speed and looking very steady proving they are doing many things right. I'm
> a huge fan of Americas Cup cause it pushes the possibilities of sailing,
> keeps designers and builders busy, and is very entertaining. Foiling has
> been around a while but recent developments have produced foils that work
> at low speeds like standup paddle boards and even surfboards. The other
> night I watched an hour long documentary of Larry Ellison winning the cup
> back from the Swiss several years before the foiling catamarans. I also
> watched a video of a guy in Truro, England (Poldark area) building fifty
> foot Pilot Cutters in wood and training young people to be builders. BTW,
> my boat takes her name from an Americas Cup defender of 1920, Resolute. She
> was short on the waterline with a bigger than normal sailplan and struggled
> but kept the cup. She was gaff rigged with three headsails and designed by
> Nat Herreshoff who designed and raced the first catamaran and designed the
> first fin keel w bulb. If he were alive today, I'm sure he would be testing
> all the cutting edge materials and designing foils.
>
> 

Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[John Irvin via CnC-List]

I loved the IC 37 event. Real people on real boats. Even made real mistakes we 
can identify with. Hope this concept becomes more popular.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 18, 2019, at 9:34 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Hi Neil,
I’m going to have to side with Charlie on this one.  There’s no shortage of One 
Design regattas, perhaps the most relevant having been raced last weekend, the 
NYYC Resolute Cup, a Corinthian competition between amateur sailors from Yacht 
Clubs around the globe.  All sailing identical Melges IC37 boats.  It was very 
important racing for those clubs involved but received little interest outside 
of some industry related press.
The America’s Cup has ALWAYS been a race that pitted crews and yacht designers 
and engineers, even from the very first competition.  When J Class, 12meter and 
ACC class boats were involved, there was always a “box rule” that allowed for 
creativity and design enhancements that would allow for innovation.  Without 
that innovation, we would never have molded sails, carbon fiber spars, or 
lightweight high modulus yacht ropes that are so popular with today’s racers.

I’ve been a big AC fan ever since the 60’s and thought back then that Intrepid 
was the absolute pinnacle of sailboat racing design.  I would sit in middle 
school classes and try to duplicate her lines, her trim tab and rudder, drawing 
with a pencil using a French curve.  It fascinated me how different that boat 
was than all the other 12meters.  Where else but in a competition with 
virtually unlimited budgets would that sort of innovation be incubated and 
brought to fruition?  Think of how Ben Lexan’s winged keel threw the monkey 
wrench  into the world of sailboat design and it still finds its way into shoal 
draft keels on modern boats.  That would never happen if the Cup was strictly a 
one design event.

My only regret is that the Cup competition no longer has a strong foundation 
with regards to home grown sailors.  The free agency of international talent 
with little regards to national representation has diluted the passion with 
which our country follows the event.  With such a domination of Aussie and Kiwi 
sailors in the cup, we appear to have lost the will to train local skippers and 
crew to reach for that gold ring of excellence that was once held by Dennis 
Connor, Bus Mosbacher, Paul Cayard, and even Bill Koch.  How to change that 
will depend on who winds up winning the Cup in this upcoming addition, but it 
is somewhat comforting that the US based challengers are using our country name 
to identify the syndicate rather than their corporate sponsor.
Go Defiant!
Chuck Gilchrest
S/V Half Magic
1983 35 Landfall
Padanaram, MA

From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> On Behalf 
Of Neil Andersen via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 8:29 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com; 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Neil Andersen 
mailto:neil.eric.ander...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List America’s Cup

Sorry, I’m with Charlie.  AC races should be about crews, not engineers.

I’m all in favor of engineering breakthroughs, but the competitors should all 
be in the same boat and the race test the crew and cut of their sails.

Neil
1982 C 32, FoxFire
Rock Hall, MD

Neil Andersen
20691 Jamieson Rd
Rock Hall, MD 21661


From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> on behalf 
of CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 10:02 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER
Subject: Re: Stus-List America’s Cup

Defiant looks awesome. They stated in a video that the boat foiled in her first 
90 minutes of being on the water. The video shows her turning at speed and 
looking very steady proving they are doing many things right. I'm a huge fan of 
Americas Cup cause it pushes the possibilities of sailing, keeps designers and 
builders busy, and is very entertaining. Foiling has been around a while but 
recent developments have produced foils that work at low speeds like standup 
paddle boards and even surfboards. The other night I watched an hour long 
documentary of Larry Ellison winning the cup back from the Swiss several years 
before the foiling catamarans. I also watched a video of a guy in Truro, 
England (Poldark area) building fifty foot Pilot Cutters in wood and training 
young people to be builders. BTW, my boat takes her name from an Americas Cup 
defender of 1920, Resolute. She was short on the waterline with a bigger than 
normal sailplan and struggled but kept the cup. She was gaff rigged with three 
headsails and designed by Nat Herreshoff who designed and raced the first 
catamaran and designed the first fin keel w bulb. If he were alive today, I'm 
sure he would be testing all the cutting edge materials and designing foils.

The new AC boats 

Re: Stus-List America's Cup

[Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List]

Hi Neil,

I'm going to have to side with Charlie on this one.  There's no shortage of
One Design regattas, perhaps the most relevant having been raced last
weekend, the NYYC Resolute Cup, a Corinthian competition between amateur
sailors from Yacht Clubs around the globe.  All sailing identical Melges
IC37 boats.  It was very important racing for those clubs involved but
received little interest outside of some industry related press.

The America's Cup has ALWAYS been a race that pitted crews and yacht
designers and engineers, even from the very first competition.  When J
Class, 12meter and ACC class boats were involved, there was always a "box
rule" that allowed for creativity and design enhancements that would allow
for innovation.  Without that innovation, we would never have molded sails,
carbon fiber spars, or lightweight high modulus yacht ropes that are so
popular with today's racers.

 

I've been a big AC fan ever since the 60's and thought back then that
Intrepid was the absolute pinnacle of sailboat racing design.  I would sit
in middle school classes and try to duplicate her lines, her trim tab and
rudder, drawing with a pencil using a French curve.  It fascinated me how
different that boat was than all the other 12meters.  Where else but in a
competition with virtually unlimited budgets would that sort of innovation
be incubated and brought to fruition?  Think of how Ben Lexan's winged keel
threw the monkey wrench  into the world of sailboat design and it still
finds its way into shoal draft keels on modern boats.  That would never
happen if the Cup was strictly a one design event.

 

My only regret is that the Cup competition no longer has a strong foundation
with regards to home grown sailors.  The free agency of international talent
with little regards to national representation has diluted the passion with
which our country follows the event.  With such a domination of Aussie and
Kiwi sailors in the cup, we appear to have lost the will to train local
skippers and crew to reach for that gold ring of excellence that was once
held by Dennis Connor, Bus Mosbacher, Paul Cayard, and even Bill Koch.  How
to change that will depend on who winds up winning the Cup in this upcoming
addition, but it is somewhat comforting that the US based challengers are
using our country name to identify the syndicate rather than their corporate
sponsor.

Go Defiant!

Chuck Gilchrest

S/V Half Magic

1983 35 Landfall

Padanaram, MA

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Neil Andersen
via CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 8:29 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Neil Andersen 
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup

 

Sorry, I'm with Charlie.  AC races should be about crews, not engineers.

 

I'm all in favor of engineering breakthroughs, but the competitors should
all be in the same boat and the race test the crew and cut of their sails. 

 

Neil

1982 C 32, FoxFire

Rock Hall, MD

 

Neil Andersen

20691 Jamieson Rd

Rock Hall, MD 21661

 

  _  

From: CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> > on behalf of CHARLES SCHEAFFER via
CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 10:02 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup 

 

Defiant looks awesome. They stated in a video that the boat foiled in her
first 90 minutes of being on the water. The video shows her turning at speed
and looking very steady proving they are doing many things right. I'm a huge
fan of Americas Cup cause it pushes the possibilities of sailing, keeps
designers and builders busy, and is very entertaining. Foiling has been
around a while but recent developments have produced foils that work at low
speeds like standup paddle boards and even surfboards. The other night I
watched an hour long documentary of Larry Ellison winning the cup back from
the Swiss several years before the foiling catamarans. I also watched a
video of a guy in Truro, England (Poldark area) building fifty foot Pilot
Cutters in wood and training young people to be builders. BTW, my boat takes
her name from an Americas Cup defender of 1920, Resolute. She was short on
the waterline with a bigger than normal sailplan and struggled but kept the
cup. She was gaff rigged with three headsails and designed by Nat Herreshoff
who designed and raced the first catamaran and designed the first fin keel w
bulb. If he were alive today, I'm sure he would be testing all the cutting
edge materials and designing foils. 

The new AC boats will be 75 feet long, foiling monohulls, no keel, no
centerboards, the foils are attached to arms that rotate the windward foil
up to act as a counterweight. Eleven man crews. New Zealand is defending
against America, England and Italy, so there will be four boats. The races
are in 2021 so they have two years to practice and improve the designs. 

Chuck Scheaffer, Resolute 1990 C 34R, Pasa

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Colin Kilgour]

Roger, I'm glad you pointed that out.  I was going to, but didn't want
to be the 'dinghy nerd'.

For full points though, you should have pointed out that Ainslie races
a Laser, not a Finn, and that he didn't win A gold medal, he won 4 of
them, which (imo) makes him one of the most accomplished Olympic
athletes of all time.   (I discount runners and swimmers because
they're able to run in multiple events in the same games, whereas
Ainslie's 4 golds span 4 games and 13 years.  That's a long time to be
the best in the world)

Btw - Laser's not a skiff either.

Cheers
Colin

On 9/25/13, Roger Ware w...@qed.econ.queensu.ca wrote:
 The Finn may be many things, but skiff, it is not.

 Cheers, Roger Ware, Kingston, ON



 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S
 Sent: September-24-13 4:15 PM
 To: Bev Parslow; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.



 I think the Americas Cup went through many changes thru the years.  The
 twelve meter boats saw a national pride carried thruout with crews from
 local colleges.  That chapter ran from WWII until 1983 when America lost the
 cup.  I think the national requirement was dropped after Coutts won so many
 times in a row.  Now it's all paid professionals of international fame.
 This year's American boat Oracle's skipper is Australian and the tactician
 is a Brit who won a Gold metal sailing a Finn in the Olympics, a one man
 skiff.

 But way back when the cup races first started, late 1800's until right up
 thru to WWII, the cup was contested like it is now.  The American boats were
 enormous boats owned by millionares, like JP Morgan, Rockefeller,
 Vanderbilt, skippered by professional captains and manned by Swedish steam,
 a gang of Swedes, or other nationalities.



 Chuck
 Resolute
 1990 CC 34R
 Atlantic City, NJ

   _

 From: Bev Parslow bparslo...@yahoo.ca
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:48:07 PM
 Subject: Stus-List America's Cup.

 I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used
 an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed seem to
 have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact we
 have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called the
 American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built,
 designed and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with
 sponsorship from the state.


 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com



-- 
Sent from my mobile device

___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Stus-List America's Cup - Lessons Learned

[Bob Moriarty]

I watched many of the America's Cup races live on Virtual Eye and then
often caught the actual video replays when they became available on
YouTube.
As a half-fast beercan racer I watched and analyzed with great interest,
ingesting a lot of information but not a lot of knowledge. I don't think I
learned anything that can be applied to my Wednesday night efforts.
Let's see, If I'm ahead, I should cover - unless I should split. hmm.
Though I did learn that if you have to roll the dice, just hope they come
up Yahtzee.

Bob M
Ox 33-1
Jax, FL
___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup - Lessons Learned

[Glen Eddie]

That was the best quote for the AC.

Glen Eddie
Torkin Manes LLP
Barristers and Solicitors
Tel: 416-777-5357

From: Bob Moriarty
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 6:50 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Reply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List America's Cup - Lessons Learned


I watched many of the America's Cup races live on Virtual Eye and then often 
caught the actual video replays when they became available on YouTube.
As a half-fast beercan racer I watched and analyzed with great interest, 
ingesting a lot of information but not a lot of knowledge. I don't think I 
learned anything that can be applied to my Wednesday night efforts.
Let's see, If I'm ahead, I should cover - unless I should split. hmm.
Though I did learn that if you have to roll the dice, just hope they come up 
Yahtzee.

Bob M
Ox 33-1
Jax, FL



___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Ken Heaton]

Colin, according to Wilipedia:

Ben Ainslie won silver at the 1996 Olympic
Gameshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Olympic_Games and
gold in the 2000 Summer
Olympicshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2000_Summer_Olympics
in
the Laser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_(dinghy) class. He gained
some 18 kilograms (40 lb) and moved to the larger
Finnhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finn_(dinghy) class
for the 2004 Summer
Olympicshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2004_Summer_Olympics,
where he won gold, a feat he repeated in the
2008https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2008_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Finn_class
 and 
2012https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2012_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Finn_class
 competitions. Both his gold medal winning Laser and Finn dinghies are
currently at the National Maritime Museum
Cornwallhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maritime_Museum_Cornwall
.

Ken H.


On 25 September 2013 19:49, Colin Kilgour charliekilo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Roger, I'm glad you pointed that out.  I was going to, but didn't want
 to be the 'dinghy nerd'.

 For full points though, you should have pointed out that Ainslie races
 a Laser, not a Finn, and that he didn't win A gold medal, he won 4 of
 them, which (imo) makes him one of the most accomplished Olympic
 athletes of all time.   (I discount runners and swimmers because
 they're able to run in multiple events in the same games, whereas
 Ainslie's 4 golds span 4 games and 13 years.  That's a long time to be
 the best in the world)

 Btw - Laser's not a skiff either.

 Cheers
 Colin

 On 9/25/13, Roger Ware w...@qed.econ.queensu.ca wrote:
  The Finn may be many things, but skiff, it is not.
 
  Cheers, Roger Ware, Kingston, ON
 
 
 
  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
 Chuck S
  Sent: September-24-13 4:15 PM
  To: Bev Parslow; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
 
 
 
  I think the Americas Cup went through many changes thru the years.  The
  twelve meter boats saw a national pride carried thruout with crews from
  local colleges.  That chapter ran from WWII until 1983 when America lost
 the
  cup.  I think the national requirement was dropped after Coutts won so
 many
  times in a row.  Now it's all paid professionals of international fame.
  This year's American boat Oracle's skipper is Australian and the
 tactician
  is a Brit who won a Gold metal sailing a Finn in the Olympics, a one man
  skiff.
 
  But way back when the cup races first started, late 1800's until right up
  thru to WWII, the cup was contested like it is now.  The American boats
 were
  enormous boats owned by millionares, like JP Morgan, Rockefeller,
  Vanderbilt, skippered by professional captains and manned by Swedish
 steam,
  a gang of Swedes, or other nationalities.
 
 
 
  Chuck
  Resolute
  1990 CC 34R
  Atlantic City, NJ
 
_
 
  From: Bev Parslow bparslo...@yahoo.ca
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:48:07 PM
  Subject: Stus-List America's Cup.
 
  I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I
 used
  an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed seem
 to
  have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact
 we
  have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called the
  American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built,
  designed and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with
  sponsorship from the state.
 
 
  ___
  This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 
 

 --
 Sent from my mobile device

 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Colin Kilgour]

I stand corrected.   I always thought of him as a Laser only guy.



On 9/25/13, Ken Heaton kenhea...@gmail.com wrote:
 Colin, according to Wilipedia:

 Ben Ainslie won silver at the 1996 Olympic
 Gameshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Olympic_Games and
 gold in the 2000 Summer
 Olympicshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2000_Summer_Olympics
 in
 the Laser https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_(dinghy) class. He gained
 some 18 kilograms (40 lb) and moved to the larger
 Finnhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finn_(dinghy) class
 for the 2004 Summer
 Olympicshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2004_Summer_Olympics,
 where he won gold, a feat he repeated in the
 2008https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2008_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Finn_class
  and
 2012https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_at_the_2012_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Finn_class
  competitions. Both his gold medal winning Laser and Finn dinghies are
 currently at the National Maritime Museum
 Cornwallhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maritime_Museum_Cornwall
 .

 Ken H.


 On 25 September 2013 19:49, Colin Kilgour charliekilo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Roger, I'm glad you pointed that out.  I was going to, but didn't want
 to be the 'dinghy nerd'.

 For full points though, you should have pointed out that Ainslie races
 a Laser, not a Finn, and that he didn't win A gold medal, he won 4 of
 them, which (imo) makes him one of the most accomplished Olympic
 athletes of all time.   (I discount runners and swimmers because
 they're able to run in multiple events in the same games, whereas
 Ainslie's 4 golds span 4 games and 13 years.  That's a long time to be
 the best in the world)

 Btw - Laser's not a skiff either.

 Cheers
 Colin

 On 9/25/13, Roger Ware w...@qed.econ.queensu.ca wrote:
  The Finn may be many things, but skiff, it is not.
 
  Cheers, Roger Ware, Kingston, ON
 
 
 
  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
 Chuck S
  Sent: September-24-13 4:15 PM
  To: Bev Parslow; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
 
 
 
  I think the Americas Cup went through many changes thru the years.  The
  twelve meter boats saw a national pride carried thruout with crews from
  local colleges.  That chapter ran from WWII until 1983 when America
  lost
 the
  cup.  I think the national requirement was dropped after Coutts won so
 many
  times in a row.  Now it's all paid professionals of international fame.
  This year's American boat Oracle's skipper is Australian and the
 tactician
  is a Brit who won a Gold metal sailing a Finn in the Olympics, a one
  man
  skiff.
 
  But way back when the cup races first started, late 1800's until right
  up
  thru to WWII, the cup was contested like it is now.  The American boats
 were
  enormous boats owned by millionares, like JP Morgan, Rockefeller,
  Vanderbilt, skippered by professional captains and manned by Swedish
 steam,
  a gang of Swedes, or other nationalities.
 
 
 
  Chuck
  Resolute
  1990 CC 34R
  Atlantic City, NJ
 
_
 
  From: Bev Parslow bparslo...@yahoo.ca
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:48:07 PM
  Subject: Stus-List America's Cup.
 
  I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I
 used
  an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed
  seem
 to
  have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact
 we
  have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called the
  American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built,
  designed and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with
  sponsorship from the state.
 
 
  ___
  This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 
 

 --
 Sent from my mobile device

 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com



-- 
Sent from my mobile device

___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup - Lessons Learned

[Graham Collins]

You didn't learn the most important lesson!  Get it up on the foils 
first!  I'm sure it is applicable to CCs...  Hmm...  have to look at 
adding appendages this winter...


Graham Collins
Secret Plans
CC 35-III #11

On 2013-09-25 7:50 PM, Bob Moriarty wrote:
I watched many of the America's Cup races live on Virtual Eye and 
then often caught the actual video replays when they became 
available on YouTube.
As a half-fast beercan racer I watched and analyzed with great 
interest, ingesting a lot of information but not a lot of knowledge. I 
don't think I learned anything that can be applied to my Wednesday 
night efforts.

Let's see, If I'm ahead, I should cover - unless I should split. hmm.
Though I did learn that if you have to roll the dice, just hope they 
come up Yahtzee.


Bob M
Ox 33-1
Jax, FL


___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Edd Schillay]

Bev,

The Cup racing has gone downhill to be sure -- both in the teams and 
the boats, but it is fun to watch any boat go 40 knots. 

I do believe, however, the America's Cup is not named after our 
country, but the boat America. 



All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website

On Sep 24, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Bev Parslow bparslo...@yahoo.ca wrote:

 I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used 
 an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed seem to 
 have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact we 
 have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called the 
 American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built, designed 
 and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with sponsorship 
 from the state.
 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Ken Heaton]

Considering the number of lawsuits invoked over the years for each
America's cup the America's Cup Deed of Gift is short, sweet and to the
point: http://www.a3.org/ac2000_DeedofGift.html

DEED OF GIFT FOR THE AMERICA'S CUP

This Deed of Gift, made the twenty-fourth day of October, one thousand
eight hundred and eighty-seven, between George L. Schuyler as the sole
surviving owner of the Cup won by the yacht AMERICA at Cowes, England, on
the twenty-second day of August, one thousand eight hundred and fifty-one,
of the first part, and the New York Yacht Club, of the second part, as
amended by an order of the Supreme Court of the State of New York dated
December 17, 1956 and April 5, 1985.

WITNESSETH

That the said party of the first part, for and in consideration of the
premises and of the performance of the conditions and agreements
hereinafter set forth by the party of the second part, has granted,
bargained, sold, assigned, transferred and set over, and by these present
does grant, bargain, sell, assign, transfer, and set over, unto said party
of the second part, its successors and assigns, the Cup won by the schooner
yacht AMERICA, at Cowes, England, upon the twenty-second day of August,
1851. To have and to hold the same to the said party of the second part,
its successors and assigns, IN TRUST, NEVERTHELESS, for the following uses
and purposes:

This Cup is donated upon the conditions that it shall be preserved as a
perpetual Challenge Cup for friendly competition between foreign countries.

Any organized Yacht Club of a foreign country, incorporated, patented, or
licensed by the legislature, admiralty, or other executive department,
having for its annual regatta on ocean water course on the sea, or on an
arm of the sea, or one which combines both, shall always be entitled to the
right of sailing a match for this Cup, with a yacht or vessel propelled by
sails only and constructed in the country to which the Challenging Club
belongs, against any one yacht or vessel constructed in the country of the
Club holding the Cup.

The competing yachts or vessels, if of one mast, shall be not less than
forty-four feet nor more than ninety feet on the load water-line; if of
more than one mast they shall be not less than eighty feet nor more than
one hundred and fifteen feet on the load water-line.

The Challenging Club shall give ten months' notice, in writing, naming the
days for the proposed races; but no race shall be sailed in the days
intervening between November 1st and May 1st if the races are to conducted
in the Northern Hemisphere; and no race shall be sailed in the days
intervening between May 1st and November 1st if the races are to be
conducted in the Southern Hemisphere. Accompanying the ten months' notice
of challenge there must be sent the name of the owner and a certificate of
the name, rig and following dimensions of the challenging vessel, namely,
length on load water-line; beam at load water-line and extreme beam; and
draught of water; which dimensions shall not be exceeded; and a
custom-house registry of the vessel must also be sent as soon as possible.
Center-board or sliding keel vessels shall always be allowed to compete in
any race for this Cup, and no restriction nor limitation whatever shall be
placed upon the use of such center-board or sliding keel, nor shall the
center-board or sliding keel be considered a part of the vessel for any
purposes of measurement.

The Club challenging for the Cup and the Club holding the same may, by
mutual consent, make any arrangement satisfactory to both as to the dates,
courses, number of trials, rules and sailing regulations, and any and all
other conditions of the match, in which case also the ten months' notice
may be waived.

In case the parties cannot mutually agree upon the terms of a match, then
three races shall be sailed, and the winner of two of such races shall be
entitled to the Cup. All such races shall be on ocean courses, free from
headlands, as follows: The first race, twenty nautical miles to windward
and return; the second race an equilateral triangular race of thirty-nine
nautical miles, the first side of which shall be a beat to windward; the
third race (if necessary) twenty nautical miles to windward and return; and
one week day shall intervene between the conclusion of one race and the
starting of the next race. These ocean courses shall be practicable in all
parts for vessels of twenty-two feet draught of water, and shall be
selected by the Club holding the Cup; and these races shall be sailed
subject to its rules and sailing regulations so far as the same do not
conflict with the provisions of this deed of gift, but without any times
allowances whatever. The challenged Club shall not be required to name its
representative vessel until at a time agreed upon for the start, but the
vessel when named must compete in all the races, and each of such races
must be completed within seven hours.

Should the Club holding the Cup be for any 

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Chuck S]

I think the Americas Cup went through many changes thru the years. The twelve 
meter boats saw a national pride carried thruout with crews from local 
colleges. That chapter ran from WWII until 1983 when America lost the cup. I 
think the national requirement was dropped after Coutts won so many times in a 
row. Now it's all paid professionals of international fame. This year's 
American boat Oracle's skipper is Australian and the tactician is a Brit who 
won a Gold metal sailing a Finn in the Olympics, a one man skiff. 

But way back when the cup races first started, late 1800's until right up thru 
to WWII, the cup was contested like it is now. The American boats were enormous 
boats owned by millionares, like JP Morgan, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, skippered 
by professional captains and manned by Swedish steam, a gang of Swedes, or 
other nationalities. 



Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 CC 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: Bev Parslow bparslo...@yahoo.ca 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:48:07 PM 
Subject: Stus-List America's Cup. 



I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used an 
atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed seem to have 
an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact we have only 
one American on board. If they win, it should be called the American's Cup. 
This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built, designed and made in that 
country, filled from citizens from there with sponsorship from the state. 
___ 
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album 
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com 
CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Ken Heaton]

I actually think this is the best America's cup in years.  I'm following
this one every day and I haven't done that fir years, probably since the
early 1980's.

There are others who seem to agree with me.  Have a look at this article in
the Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-caen/a-cup-of-caen-yelling-at-_b_3975975.html

Ken H.


On 24 September 2013 15:51, Edd Schillay e...@schillay.com wrote:

 Bev,

  The Cup racing has gone downhill to be sure -- both in the teams and the
 boats, but it is fun to watch any boat go 40 knots.

 I do believe, however, the America's Cup is not named after our country,
 but the boat America.


  All the best,

 Edd


 Edd M. Schillay
 Starship Enterprise
 CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
  City Island, NY
  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Websitehttp://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/

 On Sep 24, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Bev Parslow bparslo...@yahoo.ca wrote:

 I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I
 used an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed
 seem to have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in
 fact we have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called
 the American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built,
 designed and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with
 sponsorship from the state.
 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com



 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Bill Coleman]

I think it may be the best ever. 

I never could understand my friends jumping off the couch during football
games and yelling and jumping - 

Now I understand a little better. 

 

Clipped this interesting tidbit from Lirakis's Blog - 

FROM SAILING ANARCHY:

 

I cracked the books a bit and ran some numbers yesterday. I think I have a
good reason for the wind speed limit being set where it is. Wow was I wrong.
The boats ended up being faster than they predicted, i.e. the designs were
too good. :-) This put them dangerously close to putting the foils into
cavitation speeds (~50+) that could have lead to real control problems.

 

Basically they want to limit boat speed to under 50 knots to stay safely out
of foil cavitation speeds. The boats can sail over 2x wind speed and in some
ranges are close to or at 3x wind speed the TWS needed to keep them below 50
knots is in the 22-24 knot range.

 

The wind limit for safety was not a reaction to the Artemis disaster as I
assumed incorrectly. I had assumed the limit was for structural concerns not
an unforeseen design challenge.

 

If they want higher wind speed limits they have to lose the foiling to
remove the 50 knot barrier or they can lose the wing to reduce the top
speed of the boats to under 3x wind speed.

 

If they want to keep the full foiling and hard wings they are stuck with a
low wind speed limit until they solve the cavitation issue. Sort of ironic
that the faster the boat is relative to wind speed the lower the safe wind
speed becomes. If indeed the wind limit was lowered due to concerns about
foil cavitation then they got it right and the engineering math supports it.

 

It is not about being pansies, or poor design, or reaction to the Artemis
disaster. It is about unforeseen design success.

 

Stop bitching about the boats being too fragile to sail in 30+

Start celebrating that they are too fast to sail in over 25.

 

I'm surprised that none of the SA techies from AC33 had done the figures to
reach this conclusion.

 

When the races are over, assuming these boats are toast anyway,  they should
see what they would take (and do) in 25Kts + 

With water ambulances on hand, of course.

 

Bill Coleman

CC 39 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Heaton
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:37 PM
To: cnc-list
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

 

I actually think this is the best America's cup in years.  I'm following
this one every day and I haven't done that fir years, probably since the
early 1980's.

 

There are others who seem to agree with me.  Have a look at this article in
the Huffington Post:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-caen/a-cup-of-caen-yelling-at-_b_3
975975.html

 

Ken H.

 

On 24 September 2013 15:51, Edd Schillay e...@schillay.com wrote:

Bev,

 

The Cup racing has gone downhill to be sure -- both in the teams and the
boats, but it is fun to watch any boat go 40 knots. 

 

I do believe, however, the America's Cup is not named after our country, but
the boat America. 

 

All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/  Captain's Log
Website

 

On Sep 24, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Bev Parslow bparslo...@yahoo.ca wrote:

 

I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used
an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed seem to
have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in fact we
have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called the
American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built,
designed and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with
sponsorship from the state.

___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

 


___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

 

___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Andrew Burton]

did you guys see that?! this is incredible stuff!

I was the biggest naysayer around but I was wrong!



On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Chuck S cscheaf...@comcast.net wrote:

 I think the Americas Cup went through many changes thru the years.  The
 twelve meter boats saw a national pride carried thruout with crews from
 local colleges.  That chapter ran from WWII until 1983 when America lost
 the cup.  I think the national requirement was dropped after Coutts won so
 many times in a row.  Now it's all paid professionals of international
 fame.  This year's American boat Oracle's skipper is Australian and the
 tactician is a Brit who won a Gold metal sailing a Finn in the Olympics, a
 one man skiff.

 But way back when the cup races first started, late 1800's until right up
 thru to WWII, the cup was contested like it is now.  The American boats
 were enormous boats owned by millionares, like JP Morgan, Rockefeller,
 Vanderbilt, skippered by professional captains and manned by Swedish steam,
 a gang of Swedes, or other nationalities.


 Chuck
 Resolute
 1990 CC 34R
 Atlantic City, NJ
 --
 *From: *Bev Parslow bparslo...@yahoo.ca
 *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 *Sent: *Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:48:07 PM
 *Subject: *Stus-List America's Cup.


 I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I
 used an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being interviewed
 seem to have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour has it that in
 fact we have only one American on board. If they win, it should be called
 the American's Cup. This really is quite a farce. Why not a boat, built,
 designed and made in that country, filled from citizens from there with
 sponsorship from the state.

 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com

 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com




-- 
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI
USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
phone  +401 965 5260
___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Steve Thomas]

The Canadian navy once had a hydrofoil ship which would do better than 60 
knots, as did the Norwiegans. The U.S. navy had armed
and operational hydrofoil patrol vessels rated at 48 knots, just under the 50 
knot limit you mentioned. There must exist a body(s)
of engineering data on how to deal with cavitation issues. It can't all be 
classified. Can it?
Did the designers of the current AC boats just decide not to deal with the 
cavitation issue, and deliberately choose to depend on
rules limits for safety?

Steve Thomas
CC27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Bill Coleman
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:16 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.


I think it may be the best ever.

I never could understand my friends jumping off the couch during football games 
and yelling and jumping -

Now I understand a little better.



Clipped this interesting tidbit from Lirakis's Blog -

FROM SAILING ANARCHY:



I cracked the books a bit and ran some numbers yesterday. I think I have a good 
reason for the wind speed limit being set where it
is. Wow was I wrong. The boats ended up being faster than they predicted, i.e. 
the designs were too good. :-) This put them
dangerously close to putting the foils into cavitation speeds (~50+) that could 
have lead to real control problems.



Basically they want to limit boat speed to under 50 knots to stay safely out of 
foil cavitation speeds. The boats can sail over 2x
wind speed and in some ranges are close to or at 3x wind speed the TWS needed 
to keep them below 50 knots is in the 22-24 knot
range.



The wind limit for safety was not a reaction to the Artemis disaster as I 
assumed incorrectly. I had assumed the limit was for
structural concerns not an unforeseen design challenge.



If they want higher wind speed limits they have to lose the foiling to remove 
the 50 knot barrier or they can lose the wing to
reduce the top speed of the boats to under 3x wind speed.



If they want to keep the full foiling and hard wings they are stuck with a low 
wind speed limit until they solve the cavitation
issue. Sort of ironic that the faster the boat is relative to wind speed the 
lower the safe wind speed becomes. If indeed the wind
limit was lowered due to concerns about foil cavitation then they got it right 
and the engineering math supports it.



It is not about being pansies, or poor design, or reaction to the Artemis 
disaster. It is about unforeseen design success.



Stop bitching about the boats being too fragile to sail in 30+

Start celebrating that they are too fast to sail in over 25.



I'm surprised that none of the SA techies from AC33 had done the figures to 
reach this conclusion.



When the races are over, assuming these boats are toast anyway,  they should 
see what they would take (and do) in 25Kts +

With water ambulances on hand, of course.



Bill Coleman

CC 39



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken Heaton
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:37 PM
To: cnc-list
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.



I actually think this is the best America's cup in years.  I'm following this 
one every day and I haven't done that fir years,
probably since the early 1980's.



There are others who seem to agree with me.  Have a look at this article in the 
Huffington Post:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-caen/a-cup-of-caen-yelling-at-_b_3975975.html



Ken H.



On 24 September 2013 15:51, Edd Schillay e...@schillay.com wrote:

Bev,



The Cup racing has gone downhill to be sure -- both in the teams and the boats, 
but it is fun to watch any boat go 40 knots.



I do believe, however, the America's Cup is not named after our country, but 
the boat America.



All the best,



Edd





Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website



On Sep 24, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Bev Parslow bparslo...@yahoo.ca wrote:



  I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used 
an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants
being interviewed seem to have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour 
has it that in fact we have only one American on
board. If they win, it should be called the American's Cup. This really is 
quite a farce. Why not a boat, built, designed and made
in that country, filled from citizens from there with sponsorship from the 
state.

  ___
  This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com




___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Bill Coleman]

 Did the designers of the current AC boats just decide not to deal with
the cavitation issue, and deliberately choose to depend on rules limits for
safety?

 

These boats were never intended to hydrofoil! The Kiwis sawr a loophole in
the rules and put them on their boat, and because there was nothing
specifically outlawring them, the other countries had to follow suit.  I can
just imagine the feeling when they tack or jibe in 23 kts and they pop out
of the water as similar to the feeling of a jet cranking up and throwing you
back in your seat!

 

Bill Coleman

CC 39 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:45 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

 

The Canadian navy once had a hydrofoil ship which would do better than 60
knots, as did the Norwiegans. The U.S. navy had armed and operational
hydrofoil patrol vessels rated at 48 knots, just under the 50 knot limit you
mentioned. There must exist a body(s) of engineering data on how to deal
with cavitation issues. It can't all be classified. Can it? 

Did the designers of the current AC boats just decide not to deal with the
cavitation issue, and deliberately choose to depend on rules limits for
safety?

 

Steve Thomas

CC27 MKIII

 

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Bill
Coleman
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:16 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

I think it may be the best ever. 

I never could understand my friends jumping off the couch during football
games and yelling and jumping - 

Now I understand a little better. 

 

Clipped this interesting tidbit from Lirakis's Blog - 

FROM SAILING ANARCHY:

 

I cracked the books a bit and ran some numbers yesterday. I think I have a
good reason for the wind speed limit being set where it is. Wow was I wrong.
The boats ended up being faster than they predicted, i.e. the designs were
too good. :-) This put them dangerously close to putting the foils into
cavitation speeds (~50+) that could have lead to real control problems.

 

Basically they want to limit boat speed to under 50 knots to stay safely out
of foil cavitation speeds. The boats can sail over 2x wind speed and in some
ranges are close to or at 3x wind speed the TWS needed to keep them below 50
knots is in the 22-24 knot range.

 

The wind limit for safety was not a reaction to the Artemis disaster as I
assumed incorrectly. I had assumed the limit was for structural concerns not
an unforeseen design challenge.

 

If they want higher wind speed limits they have to lose the foiling to
remove the 50 knot barrier or they can lose the wing to reduce the top
speed of the boats to under 3x wind speed.

 

If they want to keep the full foiling and hard wings they are stuck with a
low wind speed limit until they solve the cavitation issue. Sort of ironic
that the faster the boat is relative to wind speed the lower the safe wind
speed becomes. If indeed the wind limit was lowered due to concerns about
foil cavitation then they got it right and the engineering math supports it.

 

It is not about being pansies, or poor design, or reaction to the Artemis
disaster. It is about unforeseen design success.

 

Stop bitching about the boats being too fragile to sail in 30+

Start celebrating that they are too fast to sail in over 25.

 

I'm surprised that none of the SA techies from AC33 had done the figures to
reach this conclusion.

 

When the races are over, assuming these boats are toast anyway,  they should
see what they would take (and do) in 25Kts + 

With water ambulances on hand, of course.

 

Bill Coleman

CC 39 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Heaton
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:37 PM
To: cnc-list
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

 

I actually think this is the best America's cup in years.  I'm following
this one every day and I haven't done that fir years, probably since the
early 1980's.

 

There are others who seem to agree with me.  Have a look at this article in
the Huffington Post:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-caen/a-cup-of-caen-yelling-at-_b_3
975975.html

 

Ken H.

 

On 24 September 2013 15:51, Edd Schillay e...@schillay.com wrote:

Bev,

 

The Cup racing has gone downhill to be sure -- both in the teams and the
boats, but it is fun to watch any boat go 40 knots. 

 

I do believe, however, the America's Cup is not named after our country, but
the boat America. 

 

All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/  Captain's Log
Website

 

On Sep 24, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Bev Parslow bparslo...@yahoo.ca wrote:

 

I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used
an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants being

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Gary Russell]

As a monohull guy, I lament the demise of the monohulls in the America's
Cup.  That beings said, I must admit that It is a hoot watch sailboats
doing 40 kts., In contrast to past Americas Cups, I must say that NBC
sports (including Gary Jobson and Ken Read) have done a fantastic job
bringing the new Americas Cup into our living rooms.

Gary
S/V Expresso
'75 CC 35 Mk II
East Greenwich, RI, USA


On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Bill Coleman colt...@verizon.net wrote:

   Did the designers of the current AC boats just decide not to deal
 with the cavitation issue, and deliberately choose to depend on rules
 limits for safety?

 ** **

 These boats were never intended to hydrofoil! The Kiwis sawr a loophole in
 the rules and put them on their boat, and because there was nothing
 specifically outlawring them, the other countries had to follow suit.  I
 can just imagine the feeling when they tack or jibe in 23 kts and they pop
 out of the water as similar to the feeling of a jet cranking up and
 throwing you back in your seat!

 ** **

 Bill Coleman

 CC 39 

 ** **

 *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve
 Thomas
 *Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:45 PM
 *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 *Subject:* Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

 ** **

 The Canadian navy once had a hydrofoil ship which would do better than 60
 knots, as did the Norwiegans. The U.S. navy had armed and
 operational hydrofoil patrol vessels rated at 48 knots, just under the 50
 knot limit you mentioned. There must exist a body(s) of engineering data on
 how to deal with cavitation issues. It can't all be classified. Can it? **
 **

 Did the designers of the current AC boats just decide not to deal with the
 cavitation issue, and deliberately choose to depend on rules limits for
 safety?

  

 Steve Thomas

 CC27 MKIII

  

 -Original Message-
 *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]*On Behalf Of *Bill
 Coleman
 *Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:16 PM
 *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 *Subject:* Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

 I think it may be the best ever. 

 I never could understand my friends jumping off the couch during football
 games and yelling and jumping – 

 Now I understand a little better. 

 ** **

 Clipped this interesting tidbit from Lirakis’s Blog – 

 FROM SAILING ANARCHY:

 ** **

 I cracked the books a bit and ran some numbers yesterday. I think I have a
 good reason for the wind speed limit being set where it is. Wow was I
 wrong. The boats ended up being faster than they predicted, i.e. the
 designs were too good. :-) This put them dangerously close to putting the
 foils into cavitation speeds (~50+) that could have lead to real control
 problems.

 ** **

 Basically they want to limit boat speed to under 50 knots to stay safely
 out of foil cavitation speeds. The boats can sail over 2x wind speed and in
 some ranges are close to or at 3x wind speed the TWS needed to keep them
 below 50 knots is in the 22-24 knot range.

 ** **

 The wind limit for safety was not a reaction to the Artemis disaster as I
 assumed incorrectly. I had assumed the limit was for structural concerns
 not an unforeseen design challenge.

 ** **

 If they want higher wind speed limits they have to lose the foiling to
 remove the “50 knot barrier” or they can lose the wing to reduce the top
 speed of the boats to under 3x wind speed.

 ** **

 If they want to keep the full foiling and hard wings they are stuck with a
 low wind speed limit until they solve the cavitation issue. Sort of ironic
 that the faster the boat is relative to wind speed the lower the safe wind
 speed becomes. If indeed the wind limit was lowered due to concerns about
 foil cavitation then they got it right and the engineering math supports it.
 

 ** **

 It is not about being pansies, or poor design, or reaction to the Artemis
 disaster. It is about unforeseen design success.

 ** **

 Stop bitching about the boats being too fragile to sail in 30+

 Start celebrating that they are too fast to sail in over 25.

 ** **

 I’m surprised that none of the SA techies from AC33 had done the figures
 to reach this conclusion.

 ** **

 When the races are over, assuming these boats are toast anyway,  they
 should see what they would take (and do) in 25Kts + 

 With water ambulances on hand, of course.

 ** **

 Bill Coleman

 CC 39 

 ** **

 *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken
 Heaton
 *Sent:* Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:37 PM
 *To:* cnc-list
 *Subject:* Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

 ** **

 I actually think this is the best America's cup in years.  I'm following
 this one every day and I haven't done that fir years, probably since the
 early 1980's.

 ** **

 There are others who seem to agree with me.  Have a look at this article
 in the Huffington Post

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Wally Bryant]

I have often thought that they should make the teams buy old 40 foot IOR 
era boats and fix them up and then race them.  *That* would put the 
Americas Cup within the reach of the common man.


(ahem...)
If I were Larry Ellison
I tell you what I'd do..
I'd go downtown
and buy a Mercury too!


Wal


Gary Russell wrote:

As a monohull guy, I lament the demise of the monohulls in the America's
Cup.



___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup. - cavitation

[Dennis C.]

Most of the research the US Navy did on cavitation had to do with nuclear 
submarine propellers.  I isn't just classified, it's HIGHLY classified.  The US 
subs have the quietest props.  You can understand a noisy propeller would not 
be a good thing on a submarine.


I was stationed at a Navy shipyard for a year.  As a Navy safety officer, I had 
access to all areas of the shipyard.  All areas EXCEPT the propeller shop when 
a nuke sub prop was being worked on.  The prop was always kept behind screens.  
There was always 1 or 2 armed Marines outside the screen.  They didn't even 
like me approaching them to chat.  They always politely asked me to move away.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA





 From: Steve Thomas sthom...@sympatico.ca
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
 


 
The 
Canadian navy once had a hydrofoil ship which would do better than 60 
knots, as did the Norwiegans. The U.S. navy had armed and 
operational hydrofoil patrol vessels rated at 48 knots, just under the 50 
knot limit you mentioned. There must exist a body(s) of engineering 
data on how to deal with cavitation issues. It can't all be classified. Can it? 
Did 
the designers of the current AC boats just decide not to deal with the 
cavitation issue, and deliberately choose to depend on rules limits for 
safety?
 
Steve 
Thomas
CC27 MKIII
 

___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Harry Hallgring]

I had lunch today with my boss Tom Rich who was crew on Liberty in 1983. He 
likens the 83 regatta to what we are watching now, a monumental comeback. 
Liberty was up 3-1 and eventually lost to Australia 4-3. Tom said Liberty went 
into the finals as fast as they were going to get the boat to go and they 
watched Australia II get better and faster every race.  Hopefully Oracle can 
pull it off tomorrow!
___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup conspiracy theory

[Chuck S]

I am a long time (50 year) fan of the Americas Cup. I doubt an NZ competitor 
would lose so many races to allow an even final race. But I wouldn't doubt 
Oracle may have carried some extra water weight to sandbag the first few races 
and force their guys to sail better. I'd love San Francisco to keep the cup but 
I have no love for Spithill or Ainsle or the non-American crew. Whoever wins 
deserves it. 

I hope the next series is longer and adds a clause,  must win by two races 
similar to tennis. Or rather a longer 8 hour long race around an island similar 
to the original race by schooner America. 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 CC 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: Indigo ind...@thethomsons.us 
To: kenhea...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:46:17 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup. 




Any conspiracy theorists out there? Are the Kiwi’s letting Oracle catch up to 
increase the excitement level so that AC 35 will be even better televised, 
followed by the non-sailing media? 



I agree that this has been one spectacular AC. I just wish I had had the 
opportunity to see them live from SF Bay! 






___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup 1983

[Andrew Burton]

There's an American John Bertrand. I suspect he's the one who sailed with 
Dennis.

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Sep 24, 2013, at 20:08, Chuck S cscheaf...@comcast.net wrote:

 Read both accounts of the 1983 race, one by Dennis Conners and one by John 
 Bertrand and it seems reading windshifts and adjusting strategy to the wind 
 was key to the race.  The winged keel was just a red herring.  
 
 Another point, the sailboat racing community is rather small.  John Bertrand 
 crewed for Conners as a trimmer on an earlier Americas Cup campaign.  
 
 
 Chuck
 Resolute
 1990 CC 34R
 Atlantic City, NJ
 From: Harry Hallgring hhallgr...@icloud.com
 To: w...@wbryant.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 7:44:56 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
 
 I had lunch today with my boss Tom Rich who was crew on Liberty in 1983. He 
 likens the 83 regatta to what we are watching now, a monumental comeback. 
 Liberty was up 3-1 and eventually lost to Australia 4-3. Tom said Liberty 
 went into the finals as fast as they were going to get the boat to go and 
 they watched Australia II get better and faster every race.  Hopefully Oracle 
 can pull it off tomorrow!
 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Stus-List America's Cup

[Tom Buscaglia]

The TV coverage is awesome.  But as a bit of a geek, I have been 
watching the TV coverage and running the virtual eye on my desktop at 
the same time! http://americascup.virtualeye.tv/ I suspect it is done 
entirely in Java!  A friend of mine is in San Francisco and told me 
that the annual Oracle conference is in town this week and it is a total zoo...


Awesome both web based and through the Americas Cup mobile tablet apps.

After the two point penalty and losing 6 of the initial 7 races, 
Oracle has certainly turned things around.  The second race today was amazing!


Tom B

Tom Buscaglia
SV Alera
CC 37+/40
Vashon Island WA
(206) 463-9200
www.sv-alera.com
___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup 1983

[Chuck S]

John Bertrand is the Australian skipper who won the cup from Dennis in 1983. I 
believe he did go to college in the US and graduated MIT, sailed with Dennis 
but later skippered Australia II and later Australian defenders and 
challengers. He also is known as the skipper of the Australian Americas Cup 
Louis Voitton challenger boat that sank in San Diego in 1995. Small world. 


Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 CC 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: Andrew Burton a.burton.sai...@gmail.com 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:36:09 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup 1983 


There's an American John Bertrand. I suspect he's the one who sailed with 
Dennis. 

Andrew Burton 
61 W Narragansett 
Newport, RI 
USA 02840 

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ 
+401 965-5260 

On Sep 24, 2013, at 20:08, Chuck S  cscheaf...@comcast.net  wrote: 





Read both accounts of the 1983 race, one by Dennis Conners and one by John 
Bertrand and it seems reading windshifts and adjusting strategy to the wind 
was key to the race. The winged keel was just a red herring. 

Another point, the sailboat racing community is rather small. John Bertrand 
crewed for Conners as a trimmer on an earlier Americas Cup campaign. 



Chuck 
Resolute 
1990 CC 34R 
Atlantic City, NJ 
- Original Message -
From: Harry Hallgring  hhallgr...@icloud.com  
To: w...@wbryant.com , cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 7:44:56 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup. 

I had lunch today with my boss Tom Rich who was crew on Liberty in 1983. He 
likens the 83 regatta to what we are watching now, a monumental comeback. 
Liberty was up 3-1 and eventually lost to Australia 4-3. Tom said Liberty went 
into the finals as fast as they were going to get the boat to go and they 
watched Australia II get better and faster every race. Hopefully Oracle can 
pull it off tomorrow! 
___ 
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album 
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com 
cnc-l...@cnc-list.co 
___ 
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album 
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com 
CnC-List@cnc-list.com 



___ 
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album 
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com 
CnC-List@cnc-list.com 
___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup conspiracy theory

[Andrew Burton]

One thing for sure, the sponsors are getting their money's worth! At least, I 
certainly hope they are. I won't complain if they do the same thing again...and 
I bet there would be more boats lined up to sail, too

Andy

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Sep 24, 2013, at 20:25, Chuck S cscheaf...@comcast.net wrote:

 I am a long time (50 year) fan of the Americas Cup.  I doubt an NZ competitor 
 would lose so many races to allow an even final race.  But I wouldn't doubt 
 Oracle may have carried some extra water weight to sandbag the first few 
 races and force their guys to sail better.  I'd love San Francisco to keep 
 the cup but I have no love for Spithill or Ainsle or the non-American crew.  
 Whoever wins deserves it.  
 
 I hope the next series is longer and adds a clause,  must win by two races 
 similar to tennis.Or rather a longer 8 hour long race around an island 
 similar to the original race by schooner America.
 
 Chuck
 Resolute
 1990 CC 34R
 Atlantic City, NJ
 From: Indigo ind...@thethomsons.us
 To: kenhea...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:46:17 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
 
 Any conspiracy theorists out there? Are the Kiwi’s letting Oracle catch up to 
 increase the excitement level so that AC 35 will be even better televised, 
 followed by the non-sailing media?
  
 I agree that this has been one spectacular AC.  I just wish I had had the 
 opportunity to see them live from SF Bay!
  
 
 
 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup conspiracy theory

[Brent Driedger]

The thought has crossed my mind considering the money at stake and the ego of 
the big push. 

Brent

Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 24, 2013, at 9:01 PM, Andrew Burton a.burton.sai...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 One thing for sure, the sponsors are getting their money's worth! At least, I 
 certainly hope they are. I won't complain if they do the same thing 
 again...and I bet there would be more boats lined up to sail, too
 
 Andy
 
 Andrew Burton
 61 W Narragansett
 Newport, RI 
 USA02840
 
 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
 +401 965-5260
 
 On Sep 24, 2013, at 20:25, Chuck S cscheaf...@comcast.net wrote:
 
 I am a long time (50 year) fan of the Americas Cup.  I doubt an NZ 
 competitor would lose so many races to allow an even final race.  But I 
 wouldn't doubt Oracle may have carried some extra water weight to sandbag 
 the first few races and force their guys to sail better.  I'd love San 
 Francisco to keep the cup but I have no love for Spithill or Ainsle or the 
 non-American crew.  Whoever wins deserves it.  
 
 I hope the next series is longer and adds a clause,  must win by two races 
 similar to tennis.Or rather a longer 8 hour long race around an island 
 similar to the original race by schooner America.
 
 Chuck
 Resolute
 1990 CC 34R
 Atlantic City, NJ
 From: Indigo ind...@thethomsons.us
 To: kenhea...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:46:17 PM
 Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.
 
 Any conspiracy theorists out there? Are the Kiwi’s letting Oracle catch up 
 to increase the excitement level so that AC 35 will be even better 
 televised, followed by the non-sailing media?
  
 I agree that this has been one spectacular AC.  I just wish I had had the 
 opportunity to see them live from SF Bay!
  
 
 
 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com
 ___
 This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
 http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
 CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the CC Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com