Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

[rjcasciato--- via CnC-List]

Thanks Rick


If I  decide to switch, I would likely do the 46 size.it just fits on the 
coaming top and should have the power for the 150..


We sailed in the ONE Regatta over the weekend and both days started out below 
8kts but built to just over 15kts by the finish..that's definitely very 
near the limit for my 150, but we only had 4 crew and changing down to the 135 
was never an option..


I'm still unsure how to select the Pontos winch type,  the "trimmer" is 
suggested as more powerful.but the "grinder" is supposed to be 
faster..we definitely needed both yesterday.


And my useage is only for Genoa work..halyards and such are no problem at 
this time.


Thanks again

Ron


Get Outlook for Android






On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 10:31 PM -0400, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:












I got the power ratio numbers from the winch performance information for the 
Grinder 40 on the Defender website.

 

I see that 1st & 2nd gears on the Trimmer are the same as 3rd & 4th on the 
Grinder.

 

14 CM  of line recovery per handle revolution in the fastest gear for the 
Trimmer. One of the metric folks on the list help me… that’s, what, 5.5 inches? 
And 1.4 CM in the lowest gear is about 6/10ths of an inch per revolution?

 

Max working load is 1870 pounds for both the Grinder & Trimmer. I wonder what 
the sheet loads are on a 155 on a 38 mk2 in 15 knots of true wind? According to 
the Harken calculator, for my 135 in 20 knots apparent (which is around 13 or 
14 true) the sheet load is 969 pounds.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Knecht 
via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 5:50 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: David Knecht <davidakne...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

 

I am not sure where Rick got his numbers.  I looked into this recently after an 
elbow injury made me consider replacing my Baronet 28s.  The Pontos Trimmer 4 
speed ($1600) has a power ratio of 113 in its maximum power gear.  If I replace 
my winches at some point, that is what I am planning to use.  Dave

 

On Aug 26, 2016, at 10:29 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
wrote:

 

Yes the Pontos 4 speed 40 is $1600. (Which, BTW is $300 more than a Lewmar 
Ocean 40 and $600 more than a Lewmar EVO 40) And it gets line in fast. And it 
shifts gears automatically at a comfortable 25 pounds on the winch handle. But…

 

The ultimate power ratio in the lowest gear is still a 40 – which means it has 
the same power as the Barient 24 that came as the halyard winch on my 38. (And 
that I have installed as primaries on my C)

 

Ron, you indicated dissatisfaction with how hard it is to grind in your 155 
with the current Barient 28’s. The current Barient 28’s have a power ratio of 
52 – the same as the Pontos 52’s that sell at Defender for $3400 each.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

Dr. David Knecht

Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology

Core Microscopy Facility Director

University of Connecticut  

91 N. Eagleville Rd.

Storrs, CT 06269

860-486-2200

 




___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

I got the power ratio numbers from the winch performance information for the 
Grinder 40 on the Defender website.

 

I see that 1st & 2nd gears on the Trimmer are the same as 3rd & 4th on the 
Grinder.

 

14 CM  of line recovery per handle revolution in the fastest gear for the 
Trimmer. One of the metric folks on the list help me… that’s, what, 5.5 inches? 
And 1.4 CM in the lowest gear is about 6/10ths of an inch per revolution?

 

Max working load is 1870 pounds for both the Grinder & Trimmer. I wonder what 
the sheet loads are on a 155 on a 38 mk2 in 15 knots of true wind? According to 
the Harken calculator, for my 135 in 20 knots apparent (which is around 13 or 
14 true) the sheet load is 969 pounds.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Knecht 
via CnC-List
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2016 5:50 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: David Knecht <davidakne...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

 

I am not sure where Rick got his numbers.  I looked into this recently after an 
elbow injury made me consider replacing my Baronet 28s.  The Pontos Trimmer 4 
speed ($1600) has a power ratio of 113 in its maximum power gear.  If I replace 
my winches at some point, that is what I am planning to use.  Dave

 

On Aug 26, 2016, at 10:29 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Yes the Pontos 4 speed 40 is $1600. (Which, BTW is $300 more than a Lewmar 
Ocean 40 and $600 more than a Lewmar EVO 40) And it gets line in fast. And it 
shifts gears automatically at a comfortable 25 pounds on the winch handle. But…

 

The ultimate power ratio in the lowest gear is still a 40 – which means it has 
the same power as the Barient 24 that came as the halyard winch on my 38. (And 
that I have installed as primaries on my C)

 

Ron, you indicated dissatisfaction with how hard it is to grind in your 155 
with the current Barient 28’s. The current Barient 28’s have a power ratio of 
52 – the same as the Pontos 52’s that sell at Defender for $3400 each.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

Dr. David Knecht

Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology

Core Microscopy Facility Director

University of Connecticut  

91 N. Eagleville Rd.

Storrs, CT 06269

860-486-2200

 

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

[David Knecht via CnC-List]

I am not sure where Rick got his numbers.  I looked into this recently after an 
elbow injury made me consider replacing my Baronet 28s.  The Pontos Trimmer 4 
speed ($1600) has a power ratio of 113 in its maximum power gear.  If I replace 
my winches at some point, that is what I am planning to use.  Dave

> On Aug 26, 2016, at 10:29 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List  > wrote:
> 
> Yes the Pontos 4 speed 40 is $1600. (Which, BTW is $300 more than a Lewmar 
> Ocean 40 and $600 more than a Lewmar EVO 40) And it gets line in fast. And it 
> shifts gears automatically at a comfortable 25 pounds on the winch handle. 
> But…
>  
> The ultimate power ratio in the lowest gear is still a 40 – which means it 
> has the same power as the Barient 24 that came as the halyard winch on my 38. 
> (And that I have installed as primaries on my C)
>  
> Ron, you indicated dissatisfaction with how hard it is to grind in your 155 
> with the current Barient 28’s. The current Barient 28’s have a power ratio of 
> 52 – the same as the Pontos 52’s that sell at Defender for $3400 each.
>  
> Rick Brass
> Washington, NC
>  
>  

Dr. David Knecht
Professor of Molecular and Cell Biology
Core Microscopy Facility Director
University of Connecticut   
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
Storrs, CT 06269
860-486-2200

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

Yes the Pontos 4 speed 40 is $1600. (Which, BTW is $300 more than a Lewmar 
Ocean 40 and $600 more than a Lewmar EVO 40) And it gets line in fast. And it 
shifts gears automatically at a comfortable 25 pounds on the winch handle. But…

 

The ultimate power ratio in the lowest gear is still a 40 – which means it has 
the same power as the Barient 24 that came as the halyard winch on my 38. (And 
that I have installed as primaries on my C)

 

Ron, you indicated dissatisfaction with how hard it is to grind in your 155 
with the current Barient 28’s. The current Barient 28’s have a power ratio of 
52 – the same as the Pontos 52’s that sell at Defender for $3400 each.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 1:25 PM
To: C List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
Cc: Josh Muckley <muckl...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

 

$1600

On Aug 26, 2016 1:21 PM, "Josh Muckley" <muckl...@gmail.com 
<mailto:muckl...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Way better priced than I thought!

http://www.defender.com/pontos.jsp

Josh

On Aug 26, 2016 1:04 PM, "Rjcasciato via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Thanks Josh…….have you seen any pricing for the 4 speeds?  Ron

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> ] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 12:41 PM
To: C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

 

Those 4 speed auto jobs shift at roughly a comfortable 25 lbs!

Josh

On Aug 26, 2016 12:35 PM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

One occasionally sees Barient 36’s on EBay for a grand or so each. The 36 has a 
power ratio of around 62, which according to the Harken formula I mentioned 
would bring the force on the end of the winch handle to about 55 pounds for my 
135. 

 

The Lewmar EVO65ST’s on Defender at a bit under $3k each would be pricey 
(though a lot less than Harkens), but would do the job you want.

 

You can buy Barient 32 non-self-tailers on EBay pretty reasonably. And get 32ST 
conversion kits from Winchmate for $650 per winch. So you might be able to put 
32ST’s in place of the 28ST’s for something like $2500 all up. The bases on my 
32s are almost the same diameter as the 28s. Move the 28s and use them for your 
spinnaker – for which they work well.

 

I have the same situation as you do with the lifelines being close to the 
winches. So I use the double grip winch handles for trimming to assist the 
grinder. Don’t do diddly for single handing. I did move my stanchions out to 
the toerail, which made for slightly more clearance, but using a long winch 
handle is still problematic.

 

Have you thought about using some of your resources to recruit a couple of 
“winch apes” from a local college, rather than spending big bucks to upgrade 
the winches? Tell them it’s cross-fit training and will get them a spot on one 
of those TV reality shows.

 

Some old information from Harken indicated that the  average male could exert a 
max of around 50 pounds in a horizontal direction, about 75-100 pulling up, and 
125-150 pulling down (IIRC, Though I’m certain of the 50 pound number). The 
information about selecting winches from the Harken site currently recommends 
keeping the force level around 35 for longer term comfort and a mixed sex crew.

 

BTW, the formula on the Harken Website is:

 

(Sail Area X 6) / Power ratio = Force or(Sail Area X 6) 
/force = power ratio

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> ] On Behalf Of rjcasciato via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 11:41 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Cc: rjcasciato <rjcasci...@comcast.net <mailto:rjcasci...@comcast.net> >
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

 

Thanks Rick and Josh...

 

To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient 28ST's.the 
width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures at 8.5" now.  The 
lower life line is about 9" from the center of the winch...

 

So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was 
sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid 
80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual process 
of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very well to her 
rating in PHRF.

These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been rebuilt at least 
once by me

 

We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batte

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

$1600
On Aug 26, 2016 1:21 PM, "Josh Muckley" <muckl...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Way better priced than I thought!
>
> http://www.defender.com/pontos.jsp
>
> Josh
> On Aug 26, 2016 1:04 PM, "Rjcasciato via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Josh…….have you seen any pricing for the 4 speeds?  Ron
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
>> Muckley via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2016 12:41 PM
>> *To:* C List
>> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII
>>
>>
>>
>> Those 4 speed auto jobs shift at roughly a comfortable 25 lbs!
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Aug 26, 2016 12:35 PM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> One occasionally sees Barient 36’s on EBay for a grand or so each. The 36
>> has a power ratio of around 62, which according to the Harken formula I
>> mentioned would bring the force on the end of the winch handle to about 55
>> pounds for my 135.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Lewmar EVO65ST’s on Defender at a bit under $3k each would be pricey
>> (though a lot less than Harkens), but would do the job you want.
>>
>>
>>
>> You can buy Barient 32 non-self-tailers on EBay pretty reasonably. And
>> get 32ST conversion kits from Winchmate for $650 per winch. So you might be
>> able to put 32ST’s in place of the 28ST’s for something like $2500 all up.
>> The bases on my 32s are almost the same diameter as the 28s. Move the 28s
>> and use them for your spinnaker – for which they work well.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have the same situation as you do with the lifelines being close to the
>> winches. So I use the double grip winch handles for trimming to assist the
>> grinder. Don’t do diddly for single handing. I did move my stanchions out
>> to the toerail, which made for slightly more clearance, but using a long
>> winch handle is still problematic.
>>
>>
>>
>> Have you thought about using some of your resources to recruit a couple
>> of “winch apes” from a local college, rather than spending big bucks to
>> upgrade the winches? Tell them it’s cross-fit training and will get them a
>> spot on one of those TV reality shows.
>>
>>
>>
>> Some old information from Harken indicated that the  average male could
>> exert a max of around 50 pounds in a horizontal direction, about 75-100
>> pulling up, and 125-150 pulling down (IIRC, Though I’m certain of the 50
>> pound number). The information about selecting winches from the Harken site
>> currently recommends keeping the force level around 35 for longer term
>> comfort and a mixed sex crew.
>>
>>
>>
>> BTW, the formula on the Harken Website is:
>>
>>
>>
>> (Sail Area X 6) / Power ratio = Force or(Sail Area X
>> 6) /force = power ratio
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick Brass
>>
>> Washington, NC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
>> *rjcasciato
>> via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2016 11:41 AM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Cc:* rjcasciato <rjcasci...@comcast.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Rick and Josh...
>>
>>
>>
>> To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient
>> 28ST's.the width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures
>> at 8.5" now.  The lower life line is about 9" from the center of the
>> winch...
>>
>>
>>
>> So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was
>> sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid
>> 80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual
>> process of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very
>> well to her rating in PHRF.
>>
>> These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been rebuilt at
>> least once by me
>>
>>
>>
>> We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .also a 135 and a
>> 110.
>>
>>
>>
>> It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts.
>>
>>
>>
>> I like the idea of longer handles but there's the i

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Way better priced than I thought!

http://www.defender.com/pontos.jsp

Josh
On Aug 26, 2016 1:04 PM, "Rjcasciato via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> Thanks Josh…….have you seen any pricing for the 4 speeds?  Ron
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2016 12:41 PM
> *To:* C List
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII
>
>
>
> Those 4 speed auto jobs shift at roughly a comfortable 25 lbs!
>
> Josh
>
> On Aug 26, 2016 12:35 PM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> wrote:
>
> One occasionally sees Barient 36’s on EBay for a grand or so each. The 36
> has a power ratio of around 62, which according to the Harken formula I
> mentioned would bring the force on the end of the winch handle to about 55
> pounds for my 135.
>
>
>
> The Lewmar EVO65ST’s on Defender at a bit under $3k each would be pricey
> (though a lot less than Harkens), but would do the job you want.
>
>
>
> You can buy Barient 32 non-self-tailers on EBay pretty reasonably. And get
> 32ST conversion kits from Winchmate for $650 per winch. So you might be
> able to put 32ST’s in place of the 28ST’s for something like $2500 all up.
> The bases on my 32s are almost the same diameter as the 28s. Move the 28s
> and use them for your spinnaker – for which they work well.
>
>
>
> I have the same situation as you do with the lifelines being close to the
> winches. So I use the double grip winch handles for trimming to assist the
> grinder. Don’t do diddly for single handing. I did move my stanchions out
> to the toerail, which made for slightly more clearance, but using a long
> winch handle is still problematic.
>
>
>
> Have you thought about using some of your resources to recruit a couple of
> “winch apes” from a local college, rather than spending big bucks to
> upgrade the winches? Tell them it’s cross-fit training and will get them a
> spot on one of those TV reality shows.
>
>
>
> Some old information from Harken indicated that the  average male could
> exert a max of around 50 pounds in a horizontal direction, about 75-100
> pulling up, and 125-150 pulling down (IIRC, Though I’m certain of the 50
> pound number). The information about selecting winches from the Harken site
> currently recommends keeping the force level around 35 for longer term
> comfort and a mixed sex crew.
>
>
>
> BTW, the formula on the Harken Website is:
>
>
>
> (Sail Area X 6) / Power ratio = Force or(Sail Area X
> 6) /force = power ratio
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
> *rjcasciato
> via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2016 11:41 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* rjcasciato <rjcasci...@comcast.net>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII
>
>
>
> Thanks Rick and Josh...
>
>
>
> To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient 28ST's.the
> width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures at 8.5" now.
> The lower life line is about 9" from the center of the winch...
>
>
>
> So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was
> sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid
> 80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual
> process of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very
> well to her rating in PHRF.
>
> These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been rebuilt at
> least once by me
>
>
>
> We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .also a 135 and a 110.
>
>
>
> It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts.
>
>
>
> I like the idea of longer handles but there's the issue of hitting the
> lifelines, etc.
>
>
>
> I just think it's time to move on to a modern winch..
>
> Harken is the obvious choice, but I thought there might be an alternative
> to their pricing..
>
> Weight is also a religion on my boat, so big heavy and chrome don't make
> it
>
>
>
> Thanks again
>
> Ron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: Rick Brass via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
>
> Date: 8/26/16 12:18 AM (GMT-05:00)
>
>

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

I was thinking $4k each but no.  I'll see what I can find.
On Aug 26, 2016 1:04 PM, "Rjcasciato via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> Thanks Josh…….have you seen any pricing for the 4 speeds?  Ron
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh
> Muckley via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2016 12:41 PM
> *To:* C List
> *Cc:* Josh Muckley
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII
>
>
>
> Those 4 speed auto jobs shift at roughly a comfortable 25 lbs!
>
> Josh
>
> On Aug 26, 2016 12:35 PM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> wrote:
>
> One occasionally sees Barient 36’s on EBay for a grand or so each. The 36
> has a power ratio of around 62, which according to the Harken formula I
> mentioned would bring the force on the end of the winch handle to about 55
> pounds for my 135.
>
>
>
> The Lewmar EVO65ST’s on Defender at a bit under $3k each would be pricey
> (though a lot less than Harkens), but would do the job you want.
>
>
>
> You can buy Barient 32 non-self-tailers on EBay pretty reasonably. And get
> 32ST conversion kits from Winchmate for $650 per winch. So you might be
> able to put 32ST’s in place of the 28ST’s for something like $2500 all up.
> The bases on my 32s are almost the same diameter as the 28s. Move the 28s
> and use them for your spinnaker – for which they work well.
>
>
>
> I have the same situation as you do with the lifelines being close to the
> winches. So I use the double grip winch handles for trimming to assist the
> grinder. Don’t do diddly for single handing. I did move my stanchions out
> to the toerail, which made for slightly more clearance, but using a long
> winch handle is still problematic.
>
>
>
> Have you thought about using some of your resources to recruit a couple of
> “winch apes” from a local college, rather than spending big bucks to
> upgrade the winches? Tell them it’s cross-fit training and will get them a
> spot on one of those TV reality shows.
>
>
>
> Some old information from Harken indicated that the  average male could
> exert a max of around 50 pounds in a horizontal direction, about 75-100
> pulling up, and 125-150 pulling down (IIRC, Though I’m certain of the 50
> pound number). The information about selecting winches from the Harken site
> currently recommends keeping the force level around 35 for longer term
> comfort and a mixed sex crew.
>
>
>
> BTW, the formula on the Harken Website is:
>
>
>
> (Sail Area X 6) / Power ratio = Force or(Sail Area X
> 6) /force = power ratio
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
> *rjcasciato
> via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2016 11:41 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* rjcasciato <rjcasci...@comcast.net>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII
>
>
>
> Thanks Rick and Josh...
>
>
>
> To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient 28ST's.the
> width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures at 8.5" now.
> The lower life line is about 9" from the center of the winch...
>
>
>
> So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was
> sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid
> 80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual
> process of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very
> well to her rating in PHRF.
>
> These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been rebuilt at
> least once by me
>
>
>
> We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .also a 135 and a 110.
>
>
>
> It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts.
>
>
>
> I like the idea of longer handles but there's the issue of hitting the
> lifelines, etc.
>
>
>
> I just think it's time to move on to a modern winch..
>
> Harken is the obvious choice, but I thought there might be an alternative
> to their pricing..
>
> Weight is also a religion on my boat, so big heavy and chrome don't make
> it
>
>
>
> Thanks again
>
> Ron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: Rick Brass via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
>
> Date: 8/26/16 12:18 AM (GMT-05:00)
>
> To: cnc-list@cnc

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

[Rjcasciato via CnC-List]

Thanks Josh...have you seen any pricing for the 4 speeds?  Ron

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh
Muckley via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 12:41 PM
To: C List
Cc: Josh Muckley
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

 

Those 4 speed auto jobs shift at roughly a comfortable 25 lbs!

Josh

On Aug 26, 2016 12:35 PM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

One occasionally sees Barient 36's on EBay for a grand or so each. The 36
has a power ratio of around 62, which according to the Harken formula I
mentioned would bring the force on the end of the winch handle to about 55
pounds for my 135. 

 

The Lewmar EVO65ST's on Defender at a bit under $3k each would be pricey
(though a lot less than Harkens), but would do the job you want.

 

You can buy Barient 32 non-self-tailers on EBay pretty reasonably. And get
32ST conversion kits from Winchmate for $650 per winch. So you might be able
to put 32ST's in place of the 28ST's for something like $2500 all up. The
bases on my 32s are almost the same diameter as the 28s. Move the 28s and
use them for your spinnaker - for which they work well.

 

I have the same situation as you do with the lifelines being close to the
winches. So I use the double grip winch handles for trimming to assist the
grinder. Don't do diddly for single handing. I did move my stanchions out to
the toerail, which made for slightly more clearance, but using a long winch
handle is still problematic.

 

Have you thought about using some of your resources to recruit a couple of
"winch apes" from a local college, rather than spending big bucks to upgrade
the winches? Tell them it's cross-fit training and will get them a spot on
one of those TV reality shows.

 

Some old information from Harken indicated that the  average male could
exert a max of around 50 pounds in a horizontal direction, about 75-100
pulling up, and 125-150 pulling down (IIRC, Though I'm certain of the 50
pound number). The information about selecting winches from the Harken site
currently recommends keeping the force level around 35 for longer term
comfort and a mixed sex crew.

 

BTW, the formula on the Harken Website is:

 

(Sail Area X 6) / Power ratio = Force or(Sail Area X 6)
/force = power ratio

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-bounces@cnc-
<mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> list.com] On Behalf Of rjcasciato via
CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 11:41 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: rjcasciato <rjcasci...@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

 

Thanks Rick and Josh...

 

To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient 28ST's.the
width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures at 8.5" now.
The lower life line is about 9" from the center of the winch...

 

So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was
sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid
80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual
process of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very
well to her rating in PHRF.

These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been rebuilt at least
once by me

 

We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .also a 135 and a 110.

 

It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts.

 

I like the idea of longer handles but there's the issue of hitting the
lifelines, etc.

 

I just think it's time to move on to a modern winch..

Harken is the obvious choice, but I thought there might be an alternative to
their pricing..

Weight is also a religion on my boat, so big heavy and chrome don't make
it

 

Thanks again 

Ron

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 Original message 

From: Rick Brass via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 

Date: 8/26/16 12:18 AM (GMT-05:00) 

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

Cc: Rick Brass <rickbr...@earthlink.net> 

Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII 

 

38ST's? Those must be huge.

 

I replaced the old Merriman 33 primaries on Imzadi with Barient 32s
(equivalent to Anderson/Lewmar/Harken 58 or 56), and I'm in the process of
upgrading to 32ST's to make single handing easier. 

 

But even with these big winches cranking in the 155 was a chore. The 135
headsail I now use is easier, but I can't imagine that I would want anything
smaller unless I was limiting the size of the headsail to 100 or 110 and not
going out in winds of 20 apparent or more. 

 

I've tried using the Barient 28 secondaries (equivalent to Harken 52s) to
trim the headsail a few times. The bigger winched are noticeably easier.

 

Harken recommends a formula based on sail area to calcu

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Those 4 speed auto jobs shift at roughly a comfortable 25 lbs!

Josh
On Aug 26, 2016 12:35 PM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
wrote:

> One occasionally sees Barient 36’s on EBay for a grand or so each. The 36
> has a power ratio of around 62, which according to the Harken formula I
> mentioned would bring the force on the end of the winch handle to about 55
> pounds for my 135.
>
>
>
> The Lewmar EVO65ST’s on Defender at a bit under $3k each would be pricey
> (though a lot less than Harkens), but would do the job you want.
>
>
>
> You can buy Barient 32 non-self-tailers on EBay pretty reasonably. And get
> 32ST conversion kits from Winchmate for $650 per winch. So you might be
> able to put 32ST’s in place of the 28ST’s for something like $2500 all up.
> The bases on my 32s are almost the same diameter as the 28s. Move the 28s
> and use them for your spinnaker – for which they work well.
>
>
>
> I have the same situation as you do with the lifelines being close to the
> winches. So I use the double grip winch handles for trimming to assist the
> grinder. Don’t do diddly for single handing. I did move my stanchions out
> to the toerail, which made for slightly more clearance, but using a long
> winch handle is still problematic.
>
>
>
> Have you thought about using some of your resources to recruit a couple of
> “winch apes” from a local college, rather than spending big bucks to
> upgrade the winches? Tell them it’s cross-fit training and will get them a
> spot on one of those TV reality shows.
>
>
>
> Some old information from Harken indicated that the  average male could
> exert a max of around 50 pounds in a horizontal direction, about 75-100
> pulling up, and 125-150 pulling down (IIRC, Though I’m certain of the 50
> pound number). The information about selecting winches from the Harken site
> currently recommends keeping the force level around 35 for longer term
> comfort and a mixed sex crew.
>
>
>
> BTW, the formula on the Harken Website is:
>
>
>
> (Sail Area X 6) / Power ratio = Force or(Sail Area X
> 6) /force = power ratio
>
>
>
>
>
> Rick Brass
>
> Washington, NC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
> *rjcasciato
> via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2016 11:41 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* rjcasciato <rjcasci...@comcast.net>
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII
>
>
>
> Thanks Rick and Josh...
>
>
>
> To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient 28ST's.the
> width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures at 8.5" now.
> The lower life line is about 9" from the center of the winch...
>
>
>
> So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was
> sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid
> 80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual
> process of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very
> well to her rating in PHRF.
>
> These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been rebuilt at
> least once by me
>
>
>
> We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .also a 135 and a 110.
>
>
>
> It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts.
>
>
>
> I like the idea of longer handles but there's the issue of hitting the
> lifelines, etc.
>
>
>
> I just think it's time to move on to a modern winch..
>
> Harken is the obvious choice, but I thought there might be an alternative
> to their pricing..
>
> Weight is also a religion on my boat, so big heavy and chrome don't make
> it
>
>
>
> Thanks again
>
> Ron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: Rick Brass via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
>
> Date: 8/26/16 12:18 AM (GMT-05:00)
>
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>
> Cc: Rick Brass <rickbr...@earthlink.net>
>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII
>
>
>
> 38ST’s? Those must be huge.
>
>
>
> I replaced the old Merriman 33 primaries on Imzadi with Barient 32s
> (equivalent to Anderson/Lewmar/Harken 58 or 56), and I’m in the process of
> upgrading to 32ST’s to make single handing easier.
>
>
>
> But even with these big winches cranking in the 155 was a chore. The 135
> headsail I now use is easier, but I can’t imagine that I would want
> anything sm

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

One occasionally sees Barient 36’s on EBay for a grand or so each. The 36 has a 
power ratio of around 62, which according to the Harken formula I mentioned 
would bring the force on the end of the winch handle to about 55 pounds for my 
135. 

 

The Lewmar EVO65ST’s on Defender at a bit under $3k each would be pricey 
(though a lot less than Harkens), but would do the job you want.

 

You can buy Barient 32 non-self-tailers on EBay pretty reasonably. And get 32ST 
conversion kits from Winchmate for $650 per winch. So you might be able to put 
32ST’s in place of the 28ST’s for something like $2500 all up. The bases on my 
32s are almost the same diameter as the 28s. Move the 28s and use them for your 
spinnaker – for which they work well.

 

I have the same situation as you do with the lifelines being close to the 
winches. So I use the double grip winch handles for trimming to assist the 
grinder. Don’t do diddly for single handing. I did move my stanchions out to 
the toerail, which made for slightly more clearance, but using a long winch 
handle is still problematic.

 

Have you thought about using some of your resources to recruit a couple of 
“winch apes” from a local college, rather than spending big bucks to upgrade 
the winches? Tell them it’s cross-fit training and will get them a spot on one 
of those TV reality shows.

 

Some old information from Harken indicated that the  average male could exert a 
max of around 50 pounds in a horizontal direction, about 75-100 pulling up, and 
125-150 pulling down (IIRC, Though I’m certain of the 50 pound number). The 
information about selecting winches from the Harken site currently recommends 
keeping the force level around 35 for longer term comfort and a mixed sex crew.

 

BTW, the formula on the Harken Website is:

 

(Sail Area X 6) / Power ratio = Force or(Sail Area X 6) 
/force = power ratio

 

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of rjcasciato 
via CnC-List
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 11:41 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: rjcasciato <rjcasci...@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

 

Thanks Rick and Josh...

 

To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient 28ST's.the 
width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures at 8.5" now.  The 
lower life line is about 9" from the center of the winch...

 

So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was 
sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid 
80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual process 
of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very well to her 
rating in PHRF.

These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been rebuilt at least 
once by me

 

We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .also a 135 and a 110.

 

It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts.

 

I like the idea of longer handles but there's the issue of hitting the 
lifelines, etc.

 

I just think it's time to move on to a modern winch..

Harken is the obvious choice, but I thought there might be an alternative to 
their pricing..

Weight is also a religion on my boat, so big heavy and chrome don't make it

 

Thanks again 

Ron

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 

 Original message 

From: Rick Brass via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > 

Date: 8/26/16 12:18 AM (GMT-05:00) 

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>  

Cc: Rick Brass <rickbr...@earthlink.net <mailto:rickbr...@earthlink.net> > 

Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII 

 

38ST’s? Those must be huge.

 

I replaced the old Merriman 33 primaries on Imzadi with Barient 32s (equivalent 
to Anderson/Lewmar/Harken 58 or 56), and I’m in the process of upgrading to 
32ST’s to make single handing easier. 

 

But even with these big winches cranking in the 155 was a chore. The 135 
headsail I now use is easier, but I can’t imagine that I would want anything 
smaller unless I was limiting the size of the headsail to 100 or 110 and not 
going out in winds of 20 apparent or more. 

 

I’ve tried using the Barient 28 secondaries (equivalent to Harken 52s) to trim 
the headsail a few times. The bigger winched are noticeably easier.

 

Harken recommends a formula based on sail area to calculate the target power 
ratio of new winches. Based on a 400 sq. ft. headsail (100% on our boats) and a 
pull of 35 pounds on the winch handle, Harken 68’s are the right size for our 
boats. My 135 is 562 sq. ft., which means the load on the end of the winch 
handle can be as high as 60 pounds with my current winches. I’d definitely 
stick with the big winches.

 

So why are you r

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

[rjcasciato via CnC-List]

Thanks Rick and Josh...
To correct my earlier post...my current winches are Barient 28ST's.the 
width of the winch coming is 9" and the winch base measures at 8.5" now.  The 
lower life line is about 9" from the center of the winch...
So the situation on by boat is.she is set up to race only.she was 
sailed by a nice old couple on the way to church once a week during the mid 
80's up to 1997.  When I bought her in 1997, I started an almost annual process 
of upgrading .the boat now not only looks great, but races very well to her 
rating in PHRF.These winches are original to the boat (1977) and have been 
rebuilt at least once by me
We sail with a Pentax 155 and a full batten main .also a 135 and a 110.
It takes a gorilla to bring the 155 in when tacking in anything over 8kts.
I like the idea of longer handles but there's the issue of hitting the 
lifelines, etc.
I just think it's time to move on to a modern winch..Harken is the obvious 
choice, but I thought there might be an alternative to their pricing..Weight is 
also a religion on my boat, so big heavy and chrome don't make it
Thanks again Ron



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Rick Brass via CnC-List 
<cnc-list@cnc-list.com> Date: 8/26/16  12:18 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Rick Brass <rickbr...@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: 
Stus-List New Subject.  Winch replacement for a C 38MKII 
38ST’s? Those must be huge. I replaced the old Merriman 33 primaries on Imzadi 
with Barient 32s (equivalent to Anderson/Lewmar/Harken 58 or 56), and I’m in 
the process of upgrading to 32ST’s to make single handing easier.  But even 
with these big winches cranking in the 155 was a chore. The 135 headsail I now 
use is easier, but I can’t imagine that I would want anything smaller unless I 
was limiting the size of the headsail to 100 or 110 and not going out in winds 
of 20 apparent or more.  I’ve tried using the Barient 28 secondaries 
(equivalent to Harken 52s) to trim the headsail a few times. The bigger winched 
are noticeably easier. Harken recommends a formula based on sail area to 
calculate the target power ratio of new winches. Based on a 400 sq. ft. 
headsail (100% on our boats) and a pull of 35 pounds on the winch handle, 
Harken 68’s are the right size for our boats. My 135 is 562 sq. ft., which 
means the load on the end of the winch handle can be as high as 60 pounds with 
my current winches. I’d definitely stick with the big winches. So why are you 
replacing your big winches? Are they worn out beyond redemption? Rick 
BrassImzadi  C 38 mk 2la Belle Aurore C 25 mk1Washington, NC  From: 
CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rjcasciato via 
CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 10:34 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Rjcasciato <rjcasci...@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII Hoping 
there is some help and advice out there among the group. I’m going to replace 
my primary winches on Impromptu over the winter.  Currently, I have a pair of 
Barient 38ST’s.  While I think it would be nice to try a 3 speed…….I’m sure 
that price is prohibitive. So given the size of the current winches.who has 
had some good experience with other manufacturers and keeping value in mind, 
any recommendations. The boat is used primarily for PHRF racing………but like most 
of , the crew is aging gracefully………..and I’d like to keep it that way. Thanks 
for your input and insight. Ron C.ImpromptuC 38MKIIC…..’77___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

I thought they looked pretty cool when Defender first started selling them. But 
my observation is that the big benefit of the 4 speeds is getting the sheet in 
quickly when you tack. The biggest power ratio available is 52 – which Defender 
sells for about the same price as a Lewmar EVO65ST. Didn’t look like a very 
good value for my boat and sailing style.

 

But then, if you get the line in fast enough, before the boat gets on the wind 
and the sail loads up, you might not need to grind the sail in under load and 
could get by with a smaller winch.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bob 
McLaughlin via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 11:08 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Bob McLaughlin <rmclaughli...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

 

The August issue of Practical Sailor has a review on winches. The new 4-speed 
winches from Pontos sound very interesting, up to 18:1 gear ratio, well more 
than twice any others.  

 

Bob McLaughlin

C 110 "Blue Devil"


On Aug 25, 2016, at 9:34 PM, Rjcasciato via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Hoping there is some help and advice out there among the group.

 

I’m going to replace my primary winches on Impromptu over the winter.  
Currently, I have a pair of Barient 38ST’s.  While I think it would be nice to 
try a 3 speed…….I’m sure that price is prohibitive.

 

So given the size of the current winches.who has had some good experience 
with other manufacturers and keeping value in mind, any recommendations.

 

The boat is used primarily for PHRF racing………but like most of , the crew is 
aging gracefully………..and I’d like to keep it that way.

 

Thanks for your input and insight.

 

Ron C.

Impromptu

C 38MKIIC…..’77

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

[Josh Muckley via CnC-List]

Some of the winches in the PS article shifted speed automatically!  How
cool!  I get the 2 speed winches and I assumed 3 speed had a button or
clutch or something. When I heard 4 speed I thought, "Well now that's just
silly.". That was until they explained the auto function!  I can't justify
new winches but boy if I could...

Are you replacing because of a problem?  Many things on a winch can be
repaired and if not ebay regularly has all manner of winches for sale.  If
you're looking to make the work easier then you might just consider longer
handles.  They are cheap by comparison.  Changing so you can have
self-tailers?  Get the winch mates.  Changing because you feel like it?
Since there is no problem with what you have nothing will be cost
effective, go all out and get the 4 speed autos.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C 37+
Solomons, MD
On Aug 25, 2016 11:09 PM, "Bob McLaughlin via CnC-List" <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> The August issue of Practical Sailor has a review on winches. The new
> 4-speed winches from Pontos sound very interesting, up to 18:1 gear ratio,
> well more than twice any others.
>
> Bob McLaughlin
> C 110 "Blue Devil"
>
>
> On Aug 25, 2016, at 9:34 PM, Rjcasciato via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Hoping there is some help and advice out there among the group.
>
>
>
> I’m going to replace my primary winches on Impromptu over the winter.
> Currently, I have a pair of Barient 38ST’s.  While I think it would be nice
> to try a 3 speed…….I’m sure that price is prohibitive.
>
>
>
> So given the size of the current winches.who has had some good
> experience with other manufacturers and keeping value in mind, any
> recommendations.
>
>
>
> The boat is used primarily for PHRF racing………but like most of , the crew
> is aging gracefully………..and I’d like to keep it that way.
>
>
>
> Thanks for your input and insight.
>
>
>
> Ron C.
>
> Impromptu
>
> C 38MKIIC…..’77
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
> ___
>
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you
> like what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All
> Contributions are greatly appreciated!
>
>
___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

[Rick Brass via CnC-List]

38ST's? Those must be huge.

 

I replaced the old Merriman 33 primaries on Imzadi with Barient 32s
(equivalent to Anderson/Lewmar/Harken 58 or 56), and I'm in the process of
upgrading to 32ST's to make single handing easier. 

 

But even with these big winches cranking in the 155 was a chore. The 135
headsail I now use is easier, but I can't imagine that I would want anything
smaller unless I was limiting the size of the headsail to 100 or 110 and not
going out in winds of 20 apparent or more. 

 

I've tried using the Barient 28 secondaries (equivalent to Harken 52s) to
trim the headsail a few times. The bigger winched are noticeably easier.

 

Harken recommends a formula based on sail area to calculate the target power
ratio of new winches. Based on a 400 sq. ft. headsail (100% on our boats)
and a pull of 35 pounds on the winch handle, Harken 68's are the right size
for our boats. My 135 is 562 sq. ft., which means the load on the end of the
winch handle can be as high as 60 pounds with my current winches. I'd
definitely stick with the big winches.

 

So why are you replacing your big winches? Are they worn out beyond
redemption?

 

Rick Brass

Imzadi  C 38 mk 2

la Belle Aurore C 25 mk1

Washington, NC

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of
Rjcasciato via CnC-List
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 10:34 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Rjcasciato <rjcasci...@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

 

Hoping there is some help and advice out there among the group.

 

I'm going to replace my primary winches on Impromptu over the winter.
Currently, I have a pair of Barient 38ST's.  While I think it would be nice
to try a 3 speed...I'm sure that price is prohibitive.

 

So given the size of the current winches.who has had some good
experience with other manufacturers and keeping value in mind, any
recommendations.

 

The boat is used primarily for PHRF racing...but like most of , the crew is
aging gracefully.and I'd like to keep it that way.

 

Thanks for your input and insight.

 

Ron C.

Impromptu

C 38MKIIC...'77

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Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

[Bob McLaughlin via CnC-List]

The August issue of Practical Sailor has a review on winches. The new 4-speed 
winches from Pontos sound very interesting, up to 18:1 gear ratio, well more 
than twice any others.  

Bob McLaughlin
C 110 "Blue Devil"


> On Aug 25, 2016, at 9:34 PM, Rjcasciato via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Hoping there is some help and advice out there among the group.
>  
> I’m going to replace my primary winches on Impromptu over the winter.  
> Currently, I have a pair of Barient 38ST’s.  While I think it would be nice 
> to try a 3 speed…….I’m sure that price is prohibitive.
>  
> So given the size of the current winches.who has had some good experience 
> with other manufacturers and keeping value in mind, any recommendations.
>  
> The boat is used primarily for PHRF racing………but like most of , the crew is 
> aging gracefully………..and I’d like to keep it that way.
>  
> Thanks for your input and insight.
>  
> Ron C.
> Impromptu
> C 38MKIIC…..’77
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List New Subject. Winch replacement for a C 38MKII

[Rjcasciato via CnC-List]

Hoping there is some help and advice out there among the group.

 

I'm going to replace my primary winches on Impromptu over the winter.
Currently, I have a pair of Barient 38ST's.  While I think it would be nice
to try a 3 speed...I'm sure that price is prohibitive.

 

So given the size of the current winches.who has had some good
experience with other manufacturers and keeping value in mind, any
recommendations.

 

The boat is used primarily for PHRF racing...but like most of , the crew is
aging gracefully.and I'd like to keep it that way.

 

Thanks for your input and insight.

 

Ron C.

Impromptu

C 38MKIIC...'77

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List New Subject 84 35 Mk3

[Jake Brodersen via CnC-List]

Jon,

 

You’ve picked a good model.  There is a lot of experience on this list that you 
can draw from. A lot of us have been there before and have the scars to prove 
it.  Don’t be afraid to ask questions.

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

C 35 Mk-III “Midnight Mistress”

Hampton VA

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of JP Mail via 
CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 11:40
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: JP Mail 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fwd: Replacing Windows - welcome

 

Me too. She's an '84 35mk3. Though not perfect, appears to be very well cared 
for and well outfitted. Has new port lights, recent rod rigging, fuel tank and 
rebuild of 3gm. Interesting thing about window refit is a ss frame around them. 
Haven't seen that in my research before. Things I need peace of mind with is 
hull integrity and hull/deck joint. There is also a bead of silicone along toe 
rail. This raises an eyebrow.  I know a 30 year old boat will have issues but 
there are issues I can deal with and others I don't have the time or energy to 
deal with.  I've done the soda blast and hull surface restore before and can do 
it again, but I don't want to face recoring. After a year search I'm settled on 
a C though. Hence joining the list.  I think the 35 mk 3 hits all the buttons 
for me. 
Jon.
Sent from my iPhone 

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Stus-List New Subject

[Stephen Thorne]

Gang, I need opinions and the wisdom of the group.  

I have a 1990 34+ and am interested in reworking the original bow pulpit so 
that it would be open at the front, versus current wrap around design.  Think 
modern J Boats.  Purpose of the upgrade would be to allow tacking an ASYM tack 
line farther forward onto anchor roller while reducing/eliminating chafe.  I am 
familiar with ATN Tacker and similar methods for keeping tack  luff away from 
bow but I dont like these methods.  Has anyone redesigned their bow pulpit or 
have any experience or second hand knowledge of someone who has done this?



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Re: Stus-List New Subject

[Russ Melody]

Hi Steve,
When I got my boat she didn't have a pulpit. The lifelines terminated 
to an inverted U shape stanchion arrangement on each side. The side 
units are not entirely uncommon, for the day and allowed the jib to 
be brought inside the lifelines nicely.
There were bases where the old pulpit was but It was probably let go 
because of the assy spinnaker.


After six years of cruising I've haven't had the desire to reinstate 
the pulpit. PM me if you want pics.


Cheers, Russ
Sweet 35 mk-1


At 01:15 PM 24/01/2014, you wrote:


Gang, I need opinions and the wisdom of the group.

I have a 1990 34+ and am interested in reworking the original bow 
pulpit so that it would be open at the front, versus current wrap 
around design.  Think modern J Boats.  Purpose of the upgrade would 
be to allow tacking an ASYM tack line farther forward onto anchor 
roller while reducing/eliminating chafe.  I am familiar with ATN 
Tacker and similar methods for keeping tack  luff away from bow but 
I dont like these methods.  Has anyone redesigned their bow pulpit 
or have any experience or second hand knowledge of someone who has done this?




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