Re: [Germany] GSM Prepaid offer from Tchibo: user2user calls free for next 24 months
Salve Ortwin! Sorry for my bad english - and missing activitiy on this list for the examens period... Ortwin Regel schrieb am Friday, den 27. July 2007 um 15:22h: Only Tchibo - Tchibo calls are free, and only for 24 months if you buy before 2007-08-09. Calls to old Tchibo sims and Sims sold after the promotion periode of 9.8.2007 will be charged with 5 Cent/Minute: Only Tchibo-promotion-SIM to Tchibo-promotion-SIM is free for the next 24 month. To benefit from this you'd have to get two or more of this offer and give one to everyone you phone often. Yes, but 5 Euro/SIM for such a solution is not much and developing/testing phone function could be nice to have two of such SIM cards. ;) To be absolutly accurate, the SIM is comming with an asset/balance of 1 Euro, valid for 12 month. I fear using this SIM longer then 12 month will make a rechage with the lowest amount of 10 Euro necessary. So this time-limted offer means for a developer: 2x5 = 10 Euro for using Tchibo-promotion-SIM to Tchibo-promotion-SIM for 12 month for month 13-24 you have to invest 2x10 Euro. SMS are relatively expensive and I wasn't able to find anything about data... Your are right, SMS are relatively expensive, my tip was not about the best tariff for all... Just about the possibility to do free calls from one to the another... And finaly, like all flat-rate tariffs, the contract Allgemeine Geschäftsbedingungen says, that stationary gatways to forward external calls are not allowed to do: 4.1 Der Kunde ist verpflichtet h) die Leistungen von O2 nur zum Aufbau selbstgewählter Verbindungen zu nutzen; ihm ist insbesondere nicht gestattet, mittels einer SIM-Karte von einem Dritten hergestellte Verbindungen Über Vermittlungs- oder Übertragungssysteme weiterzuleiten oder SIM-Karten in stationären Einrichtungen, gleich welcher Art, zu installieren oder unter Verwendung von SIM-Karten Telekommunikationsdienstleistungen anzubieten oder zu vermitteln. Ok, no stationary gatway... BTW this offer shows again that the tariffs have more and more special profiles - the one it very cheap with this - the other is very cheap with that - multiple SIM inside a phone would help to profit from A and B comfortable, without a second or third phone... It's a pity that the Neo doesn't have a second SIM card slot (and a second GSM tranceiver) so cheap GPRS connections like Medion Mobile 0,24Euro/MB needs to change the SIM or a second mobil (maybe with Bluetooth, maybe a second neo) Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[Germany] GSM Prepaid offer from Tchibo: user2user calls free for next 24 months
Salve, sorry that this is only a tip for OpenMoko people in Germany - there is a quite interesting offer since today: Prepaid SIM for 5 Euro with free calls to other SIMs (users) of this special sold offer for the next 24 month. I haven't found a limitation of minutes/month. http://www.tchibo.de :) I think there is something like fair-use so when you/I use this offer less intensive then some teenies This offer use the network of O2 and it could be that this free calls are only valid inside the O2 network in Germany. If the mobil use the D1 roaming inside Germany it could be that this calls are not for free... (I will check this) and realy cool would it be, when datacalls from Tchibo-SIM to Tchibo-SIM would be free as well. The selling this special Prepaid-cards is anounced to run until 9.8.2007. See also: http://www.teltarif.de/arch/2007/kw30/s26634.html BTW: the shops have mobils as well, I had the luck to get a Nokia 1112 with Prepaid SIM for 20 Euro. The battery BL-5CA of this mobil is Neo1973 compatible (already tested) and has a charger that could help when your are going to buy a stand alone battery charger from Nokia or third-party vendor. The FIC GTC-01/GTA-01 battery is setting the Nokia 1112 into test mode - so this 20 Euro inc Prepaid-SIM offer is not realy likly to work as Second Battery for the neo, Battery Charger and Prepaid-SIM deal But the sim itself (with a second sim of this offer) would be very interesting to use with the neo. It's a pity that the Neo doesn't have a second SIM card slot (and a second GSM tranceiver) so cheap GPRS connections like Medion Mobile 0,24Euro/MB needs to change the SIM or a second mobil (maybe with Bluetooth, maybe a second neo) Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Audio I/O questions
Salve Gabriel! Gabriel Ambuehl schrieb am Mittwoch, den 28. März 2007 um 08:38h: On Wednesday 28 March 2007 00:52:20 Robert Michel wrote: Ahh.. I can hear it with the Neo1973 headset as well, wenn I pull out the headset for 0,7mm - mybe my 2,5 mm 4 pin jack is not accurat enough. I got the reason - the jacks I bought does haven has a ring with screw thread (connected with ground) with a diameter of 7.5 mm (and the 4-pole) pin is inside). The first jack I soldernd had this ring a little bit more to the outside - also both jacks I bought does not have accurate 90 degree between pin and ring and the ring has 7.5 mm in the diameter - the official headset jack only 4.5 mm so that could be the reason for pulling out a bit more... So the second jack works fine. So comparing with 3.5 mm or 5 mm jacks the tolerances with 2,5 are quite low and when you buy a jack in a shop IMHO would worth a deep look about them. Removing the ring and the 18 mm long GND banner give an adapter like the one glued into plastic of the 90 degree angel jack of the official headset. I would not encourage to use an jack without a 90 degree angel connected to the neo inside of a pocket - this 2.5 cm long adapater would gave a to much high moment on the jack on the PCB. Not strictly what you asked, but working adapter jacks for Moto V360 (which as I understand would work) can be had on Ebay for 20cents plus shipping... Yes, they also have a angel jack... :) But they are only for headphones. Selfsolderd adapter will have the advantage to be able to use the mic in as well ;) Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Audio I/O questions
Salve! I'm very happy that the Neo1973 has - stero headphone out - mono mic in (for headset) this give us much power for having much fun with the neo. : http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware#Analog_wired_Headset Analog wired Headset There's a four-ring 2.5mm stereo jack which provides connectivity to old-fashioned wired headsets. The headsets used by Motorola smartphones (A780,A1200, ...) and the V-360 have a compatible configuration. Na this audio I/O is not only good for a headset, playing the music from a Neo1973 on the next party and more would be fun - so an adapter would be usefull - but how? I went to the electronic component shop just around my corner and bought a 2,5 mm 4 pin jack (Klinkenstecker) and 3 chinch jacks. testing the headset with a (very cheap) mulitmeter: 1-2 and 1-3 has 33-35 Ohm 1-4 1170 Ohm shows that I guessed right that the jack is used with: -+ |=#=#=#= -+1 2 3 4 1 GND 2 l audio out (tested this with alsamixer and my adapter) 3 r audio out 4 mono audio in/ mic with bias (is this correct?) So 33-35 Ohm is quite low - my headphone has 600 Ohm and the audio in of my hifi amp 60kOhm. Sorry, I'm no electrical expert but I'm very interested in how we can use the power of Neo1973's audio I/O - so excuse me when this mail raise more questions then answers... AFIK does the resistant number of the connected device matter and so the Neo1973 output should have different profiles to switch from - neo1973 headset to - headphone and line out. Would does need the support of the hardware or could we change the driver settings to get a good line output? I thought my adaper would be fine, *but*... 1 and 2 gaves a very low output of the right channel- even when headphone and pcm are on 100% 1 and 3 gaves a pulsating noise (about every 0,5s) but with the neo1973 headset it sounds fine. Hmm, does somebody have an idea? Ahh.. I can hear it with the Neo1973 headset as well, wenn I pull out the headset for 0,7mm - mybe my 2,5 mm 4 pin jack is not accurat enough. Does anybody else start to play to use the neo1973 audio for more then the official equipement? My plan was to have a good adapter to linie in of my usb audio device egosys U2A and do some recorings of the neo1973's audio I/O (and to share this recordings) and to solder an adaper to normal headphones. Greetings, rob PS: My V3 has also some noice on the left channel in depandances of the screen - alsamixer on the screen with much black gives other noise than the shell.. ogg123 playback is bucking (ruckelt) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Master Studies in Embedded systems starts in Pforzheim/Germany
Salve! Seems that this master courses are not given in English: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/87322 http://es.hs-pforzheim.de/menue/frame_ma_es.htm Is here someone on the list with good contacts to the hs-pforzheim? Do you have ideas how to make OpenMoko populare there? rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
I know why I dislike anonymous participants on mailinglists :((
Mike (or better everybody new to this project/list)! I'm in favor to welcome everybody on this list, to respect him and to help that his interest, effort and skills will be supported and answered that it is most efficent for him and the community. But as hard as I try to stay patient and friendly, I can't - I can see you only destructive here on this list - please leave this list and go shopping. So my mail is not motivated on two reasons 1. to please you to stop 2. and to replay in a way that new people comming to this project because of Seans call will not be put off because of your unspeakable noise here nor because of our reaction. But I think that Sean has found the right answer So when you are new to this project/list don't spend to much (or any) attention to the demands from anonymous Mike. On Tue, 13 Mar 2007, Mike wrote: Johnathon let me phrase it like this- I love the help of the open source community, I'm a part of it myself. Which open source community? Are you only consuming help from communities? When you would be a developer, part of another open source community, why does you need to write anonoumous with a new mailaccount? But when it comes to whether or not I spend $350 plus an officially-unknown monthly price, and likely with a two year contract, then yea, I want big official advice with a golden seal of approval on a silver platter with a company logo in a spotlight and smiling showgirls on either side. Sorry, I can't take you serious - please stop writing anonymous here on this mailinglist (or better stop write on this mailinglist in general) and do not continous to kill an important threads with your %§)§ - who is paying you for creating silly noise on this list? Who is saying that you need a two year contract for phoning? I *would* have advices like: http://www.prepaidgsm.net/en/usa.html http://www.prepaidgsm.net/en/international.html So for just 10US$ you could get an GSM SIMcard with 6US$ account for dialing - vallid for 15 days to test any GSM device in this area for voice calls: http://beyondwirelessgsm.com/coverage_map.php? (Do not think that his coverage is eaqual to GSM in USA general, nor that this orange coverage could not have areas without working network inbetween) Have you ever thought about to ask somebody of your town about GSM coverage and experiances in your region befor you bother us on this list? h? Have you ever thought to borrow a GSM device from somebody, or buying a cheap (used) GSM device and spend 10US$ to test the coverage of your town, of your room before spending more money - or singing a two year contract (that very likly is not needed)? But you do *not* worth any help - you are help--resistant Please go to the next phone shop with smiling showgirls (they are smiling because knowing that they could sell persons like you everything... ) and stop flooding this important mail thread about Wifi chips and call for GUI developers... Better leave this list, now! Thank you! rob PS: Ahh, and when your aim is to sabotage openmoko (or someone would try it in your style) your noise will not stopp anybody here who is seriously active on/with openmoko - no it will/would strengthen the community. But who like to strengthen our community don't do it in the style of Mike - there are more efficent ways to do this ;) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Creating a SIP client for the OpenMoko
Salve Chuck! On Mon, 12 Mar 2007, Chuck Pareto wrote: I was thinking about getting a Sip phone to use with the Gizmo Voip service (my friend is using it and loves it), but then thought about creating a Sip/Voip client to run on the OpenMoko. Does anyone know if this would be possible? Of course should be possible... and I expect that someone will port an existing sip client to OpenMoko and that such a client will get an integration into the dailer menue But this work is hardware independent it could be done at a later point or just by someone using the emulator¹... Which Network connection you thought to use for Sip/Voip? - GPRS to much delays/still to expensive - Wlan - you still need a battery powerd hub and a USB Wifi adapter - usb cable - also not handy - bluetooth! ;) For your home there is IMHO a more smart solution with Bluetooth: Asterisk Channel Driver to allow Bluetooth Cell/Mobile Phones to be usedas FXO devices. Wed Feb 14 15:49:56 CET 2007 http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003364.html With asteriks you could manage your incomming calls not only when you are at home (forwarding to your Neo1973), but also when you are not able to use Voip directly - switching between - forward to GSM (you are paying) - answering machine - not reachable/rejecting Using Voip on the Neo with asterisk on a 24/24h maschine allows another trick - you do not need to have Bluetooth 24/24h on for getting incomming calls - asterisk could ring you via GSM from a special account - the caller ID used of your asterik will make your Neo1973 switching Bleutooth on ;) When it is not only about doing cheap calls, Paul Wouters is working on doing encrypted calls via Jabberclient - the calls will be made via GSM data calls. What have been your ideas about using Sip/Voip with the Neo1973? Greetings, rob ¹http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_Is_there_an_emulator_available_for_OpenMoko.3F ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Asterisk Channel Driver to allow Bluetooth Cell/Mobile Phones to be used as FXO devices.
Salve! A good friend of mine told me that there is a new patch out for asterisk to use a mobile with Bluetooth for *inbound* calls ;))) chan_cellphone-- Use Bluetooth cell / mobile phones as FXO devices see: http://bugs.digium.com/view.php?id=8919 --snipp-- Asterisk Channel Driver to allow Bluetooth Cell/Mobile Phones to be used as FXO devices. Multiple cell phones can be connected. Asterisk automatically connects to each cell phone when it comes in range. Command to discover bluetooth devices. Useful for configuration Inbound calls to the cell phones are handled by Asterisk, just like inbound calls on a Zap channel. CLI passed through on inbound calls. Dial outbound on a cell phone using Dial(CELL/device/nnn) in the dialplan. Application CellStatus can be used in the dialplan to see if a cell phone is connected. Supports devicestate for dialplan hinting. --snapp-- The mobil must support the Bluetooth Handsfree Profile http://www.bluetooth.com/NR/rdonlyres/94EAD32B-3E70-4AEC-9CD5-1E3F887A15F4/917/HFPSpecVersion1_0.pdf As far as I saw on this webpage, yet supported/positiv tested phones are: Nokia Series 40 phones Nokia 6230i LG TU500 CU500 RIM Blackberry 7250 Sony Ericsson 'T''K''V' Series phones VK2020 Motorola L6 Motorola V3 For more info, read the bugtrackpage about this patch: http://bugs.digium.com/view.php?id=8919 and the cellphone.txt http://bugs.digium.com/file_download.php?file_id=12910type=bug This patch is about inbound calls, IMHO a good starting point for integrate outbound calls via Bluetooth into OpenMoko. I expect when routing calls over an asterisk server, that even hand over from GSM to Bluetooth and Bluetooth to GSM will be possible :)) Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
also people.openmoko.org Re: Wiki is open
Salve Tomasz,*! On Wed, 14 Feb 2007, Tomasz Zielinski wrote: It looks like http://wiki.openmoko.org is open to public :-) GREAT stuff there : Also under people.openmoko.org - I asked Mickey and all pictures and documents there are also for the public :)) like: http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos/GTA01v3_back_highres.jpg http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos/gta01-sd-simcard/1024_img_5095.jpg http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos/gta01-sd-simcard/1024_img_5100.jpg (sorry I was in a hurry much more there what I haven't seen) :) what a great device :) What a pitty that it haven't be anounced at the 3GSM, but with a active community activity and feedback the public will notice it, at last the ICT people ;) And the technical details on the openmoko.org webserver is absolutly great stuff! Cheers! rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
And please use a emailclients with working Reference Re: gmail users CC'ing
Salve Richard, *! I full agree with you! But dubbel mails from gmail is IMHO not the worst - it is starting new threads with every answer be not using working Referneces or In-Replay-To On Tue, 13 Feb 2007, Richard Bennett wrote: Hi, Why so many people who believe in the ideals put forward by the Neo/Openmoko project are happy to use Gmail astounds me... tzz, locking forward to have more ICT freedom with OpenMoko/Neo1973 but wasting personal freedom and privatcy by using the datacollecting monster google A nyway, aside from that minirant, is it possible when sending mail from Gmail to not CC loads of people in the meantime? The gmailers here on the list are also _rowdily_ by not using an emailclient with supporting working References :(( Maybe they are so ICT unskilled that they do not know that good emailcinets support threading for efficient and civilised communication. So either someone of the gmail guys explains the other gmail ICT-noobs how to use an emailclient for a civilised participtation on a mailinglist, or I will gooing filter all mails comming from gmail.com. (Gmail users seems to become what AOL users has been known for) Nice hints like: S: Small hint: Your Email hasn't a working References: or In-Reply-To: in its header, so no email client could put it into the right thread. Please check if you can answer with Referneces. Seems not to be understood or respected. Sorry for my hard words,* but as we known there are over 800 people on the list and a mailinglist without respecting References in the emailheader will making an unneccessary mess in our inboxes, but also on the webarchives. So when you are using gmail and you know how to use gmail civilised on a mailinglist, please explain other gmailers how to do so Which gmail user can help? Thank you :)) rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Sorry... Re: And please use a emailclients with working Reference Re: gmail users CC'ing
Salve! Excuse me, I myself was writing once here on this list about respect and to give everybody a warm welcome. The best solution for mailinglist formal things would be personal mails with explaination... Robert Michel schrieb am Dienstag, den 13. Februar 2007 um 13:57h: The gmailers here on the list are also _rowdily_ by not using an emailclient with supporting working References :(( I don't mean every gmail user - I just wanted to express that using gmail could become or already is a negative business cardm personal reference like using hotmail or aol mailaccount. I know that there are good reasons to use a separate freemailer account for a mailinglist, especialy when you don't have a own mailserver... My comment was a little to fast written, my intention was to motivate others - maybe you, with the knowledge how to use gmail in a good way to explainig it to people here on this list doesn't having this knowledge or caring about threads. Hope this apology helps to motivate people to let this mailinglist running with respect, but also with efficiency due working threads. So how can write a short explaination for gmail users in the wiki? Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Sorry... Re: And please use a emailclients with working Reference Re: gmail users CC'ing
Salve hank! Thank you for your feedback ;) On Tue, 13 Feb 2007, hank williams wrote: You are misinformed if you believe that gmail does not handle threads properly. Maybe, it would be nice when other gmail users explain gmail users how to use gmail proper, instead of that I have to inform myself about gmail. In fact I think it is the best product on the market, free or otherwise, for handling threads. The problem which you are referring to has nothing to do with gmail, but with the fact that some people mistakenly delete the re: from the mail header when responding. This is only a backup for threading mails - threading by subjects. The better way is threading with working References in the header. Q: Is gmail killing this reference line in the header when the Subject does not begin with re:? Realy? Can you test this? BTW, it seems that e.g. Ryan is using Apple Mail as MUA. (Mail user agent = email client) AFAIK Apple mail can set References in the header. So the question stil is, what make the References missing for Ryan by using gmail. Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Great ;) Re: Storage + Re: The actual release date of NEO1973
Salve Harald! Harald Welte schrieb am Sonntag, den 11. Februar 2007 um 22:21h: On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 04:05:03PM +0100, Sven Neuhaus wrote: Any news on this? I'm not holding by breath for 4GB, but has 2GB been confirmed? Sandisk 2GB SDSDQU-2048-E10M works just fine. Thank you for this good news :) I don't want be unfair by talking about more memory, I'm just intersted in the spezification of the Neo1973 - knowing about limitation of v1 does not mean that it limited the real big step OpenMoko/Neo1973 as first free GSM phone will bring into the live - it doesn't matter if we can use 2 or 4 GB cards - even with 1 GB cards or even without memory cards, OpenMoko/Neo1973 has high potential to do things - with more security - more privatcy - better - more fun... But BTW memory cards, SanDisk anounced today in Barcelona the first 4 GB microSDHC: [...] SanDisk is now sampling the new 4GB microSDHC card to OEMs such as major phone manufacturers and mobile network operators (MNOs). Engineering samples are now available for evaluation, as mobile phone makers will need to upgrade the firmware in their handsets so that memory slots can support the new card. SDHC is the new designation for any SD(TM) or SD-based card that is larger than 2GB and adheres to the new SD 2.00 specification that is required for cards and hosts to support 4GB to 32GB capacities. The specification was developed by the SD Association, an industry standards board, which also defined three speed classes for speed and performance capabilities. These cards adhere to the SD Speed Class 2 Rating specification which defines a minimum sustained transfer speed for SDHC cards. Retail release of the card is planned for later in 2007. OEM pricing has not been determined yet. [...] http://www.sandisk.com/Corporate/PressRoom/PressReleases/PressRelease.aspx?ID=3711 So microSD cards with 4GB or more are based on SDHC, and the SD standards are not so open that writing drivers would be possible to everybody - right? Wasn't it your meritoriousness, Harald, that the SD driver from TomTom becomes public? To avoid speculations and hopes, is it clear today, that phase-1-Neo1973s/phase-2-Neo1973s will have a limited of microSD cards to 2GB? Or not? Is it realy a firmware/driver only task, so that phase-1-Neos could be upgraded to use SDHC later? Best wishes! rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
You don't have to wait 8 years ; ) Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
Salve Ryan! On Mon, 12 Feb 2007, Ryan Kline wrote: So I propose that all members of the Open Moko mailing lists may have a priority on purchassing a phone for testing/troubleshooting (of course) if theire is some devices left after develpppers. :):):) I'll drink to that (when i'm 21). You will wait 8 years to do this? No I don't want to push you to drink alcohol in early years - I just want to relativise some statements like in the FOSDEM threat, the Friday Beer Event and statments like I'll buy you a beer... For community is drinking the same thing not so important, or when a community is based only on this - this community does worth nothing... So when we have talked about spending drinks each other, because we are looking forward to meet Sean, the other developer and each other... and you have someday the chance to meet someone of us active with OpenMoko - don't doubt that would include non alcoholic drinks as well - so don't wait 8 years to drink to that ;) So 10 Ideas from a Non-Developer was your first mail on this list, right? ;) http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001210.html Then is your first ideas 1. (sort of like boost mobile but,) Locate your buddies using GPS on a map system. Possibly non-neo phones too... IMHO a remakable one, because it include the wish with a good interaction of OpenMoko/Neo1973 with non OpenMoko devices - I share the importances that OpenMoko will make communications/ interaction also with non OpenMoko users more easy and that some cool ideas could impress non-OpenMoko users and motivate/convice them to choose OpenMoko/Neo1973 themself - because OpeMoko2OpenMoko communication will be even more powerfull with much more possibilities. Getting ideas and feedback from you about the zeitgeist¹ of kids of your age will be interesting and helpfull for all of us - very nice that you become active on this list ;) Cheers², rob ¹zeitgeist, a word that came from German into English: spirit of the age ² of course non alcoholic ;) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: You don't have to wait 8 years ; ) Re: [openmoko-announce] OpenMoko Challenges
Salve Ryan! Ryan Kline schrieb am Montag, den 12. Februar 2007 um 14:54h: Actually, I will wait. This is fine. ;) But I fear, you got me wrong. I think I will wait. I do understand that this community drinks, but I do not feel pressured to do the same. and [when] you have someday the chance to meet someone of us active with OpenMoko - don't doubt that would include non alcoholic drinks as well - so don't [have to] wait 8 years to drink to that ;) So even when we are writing about drinking on a meeting or just virtual together e.g. when the first phones are out - you don't have to wait to salute/drink to that for 8 years - just chooce some non-alcoholic drink and join. I also am very good with videography and would lend my services to OpenMoko if they would pay for my plane ticket :-) I hope Seans small presentation at the FOSDEM will be recorded by the FOSDEM people - good point - I should ask them, I could help them... think you was a bit kidding with the plane ticket, right? But I'm shure there are more ways that you could bring in your skills and ideas. I even tried to get a discount for being the youngest on the forum. (http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/ 003155.html) I guess that didn't work very well. But your answer about the mailinglist statistic was cool :) You have read that Sean and the others of his team are *very* busy at the moment, so when the biggest problems solved and it is clear, when the phase-1 can start it will be a better moment trying to ask for discount for being a schoolboy or student or asking about upgrade (price reduction) for buying neo1973-version2-phase1 in 2008 after already buying neo1973-version1-phase1 this year. ;) Greetings, rob PS: Small hint: Your Email hasn't a working References: or In-Reply-To: in its header, so no email client could put it into the right thread. Please check if you can answer with Referneces. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[3GSM] Feb 6, 2007: Funambol Shows Open Source Push Email, Contacts and Calendars for Everyone at 3GSM World Congress.
Source: http://www.funambol.com/press/Funambol_3GSM07_release.pdf :) --snipp-- Funambol Shows Open Source Push Email, Contacts and Calendars for Everyone at 3GSM World Congress Funambol demos mobile email portal for consumers, open source Java client for mass market devices and OpenMoko platform REDWOOD CITY, Calif., February 6, 2007 Funambol, the mobile open source software company, today announced it will preview its new mobile email portal for consumers at 3GSM World Congress in Barcelona, February 12 15, 2007. The company will also show the world's first open source Java mobile email client for mass market phones and how its software powers the email, contacts and calendars for the popular OpenMoko mobile Linux platform. Funambol is the leading provider of open source push email, contacts and calendars, and has been downloaded more than 1,000,000 times, tripling the size of its user and developer network since 3GSM World Congress a year ago. The market for consumer mobile email exceeds today's enterprise mobile email market and remains largely untapped, said Fabrizio Capobianco, CEO of Funambol. Funambol gives carriers the essential ingredient for unleashing this revenue potential open source software. Funambol mobile open source software is supported by 10,000 developers in 200 countries around the globe, delivering unprecedented device compatibility at unprecedented cost. Visitors to Funambol booth #1J46 will see the following demonstrations: Sneak Preview: Mobile Email Consumer Portal based on Open Source Platform The Funambol portal has been completely revamped as it takes advantage of the new Funambol v3 open source mobile app server. The portal makes it easy for users to setup their mobile phones for email and to manage their mobile email, contacts and calendar info. It automates Over-The-Air (OTA) configuration of mobile devices. To set up a device for email, a user just enters their mobile number into the portal. The portal sends an SMS message to the phone which the user accepts to configure it. World's First Open Source Java Mobile Email Client for Mass Market Phones For the first time, Funambol will be demonstrating its J2ME client for delivering open source mobile email, contacts and calendars on the world's most ubiquitous application platform for mobile devices. OpenMoko Communications Platform for Mobile Phones Since its November introduction as the world's first fully open Linux-based software stack for mobile phones, OpenMoko has received industry and community acclaim as the open alternative to the iPhone. Funambol allows OpenMoko-based phones to wirelessly synchronize mobile applications and content, including PIM, push email, photos, video, ringtones, music and more. About Funambol Funambol is the mobile open source company and is the leading provider of open source push email and PIM for consumers. Funambol is supported by a global network of users and developers representing more than 1,000,000 downloads and 10,000 contributors in more than 200 countries. The commercial version of Funambol's software has been deployed at wireless carriers, Fortune 100 enterprises, hardware OEMs/ODMs and ISVs including customers such as Computer Associates. Funambol is headquartered in Redwood City, California with a development center in Italy. See www.funambol.com. ### Media Contacts Jennifer Cloer Page One PR 503.547.9451 [EMAIL PROTECTED] David Rizk Page One PR 415.321.2345 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Thoughts about Bluetooth equipement - does somebody knows a Bluetooth camera?
Salve! Some thoughts about Bluetooth equipment: -Keyboard -Mouse -Headset -Carkit -PC/Laptop/Router with Bluetooth -printer -soundgateway(?) -embedded devices with Bluetooth -other bluetooth mobiles to do converence calls or when the Neo1973 v1 hasn't GPRS class A - to use GRPS while phoning *g* So what more? Are there digital cameras with Bluetooth on the market? Does some of them allows to send pictures directly via Bluetooth when pressing the release? Any inexpensive one there? Which devices did you also know with bluetooth? - barcode scanner? - sensor like thermomether - medical sensor systems, e.g. for live controling of the heartbeat. Link ideas for our wiki? http://tuxmobil.org/bluetooth_linux.html http://tuxmobil.org/bluetooth_cell_apps.html Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Thoughts about Bluetooth equipement - does somebody knows a Bluetooth camera?
Salve! It seems that http://www.bluetooth.com/ has a good overview - we could pick devices from their when they are supported with Linux. Somethink like linux-usb.org would be nice. Robert Michel schrieb am Sonntag, den 04. Februar 2007 um 15:34h: So what more? Are there digital cameras with Bluetooth on the market? Does some of them allows to send pictures directly via Bluetooth when pressing the release? Any inexpensive one there? To be more focused/precice - do you know personal a camera like that? What's your experiances with it? Greetings, from a sunny Aachen, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
enviroment friendly development for v2?
Salve! I don't know how much enviroment friendly development was criteria for the v1 - but this point would be nice to consider - at last for v2: http://www.greenpeace.org/international/campaigns/toxics/electronics/copy-of-how-the-companies-line OpenMoko will enable the user to use the phone much longer and to add the software that he wants/needs instead of the need to buy a new phone because of a new protocoll e.g. Wap. This is already a big step for beeing an environment friendly product. Don't get me wrong, I don't ask for making all better from the beginning - but on the longterm, it would be nice to promote OpenMoko/Neo1973 also with ecological criterias. Like: Beeing greener then the Greenphone ;) Supporting small companies to repair e.g. display demanges with different display types and a non-propritary battery format would help that the live-time of a Neo would be longer than the 12-24 month crap with included engineered end of live shortly after warannty. No keyboard is a good design to be able to use it for a longer time :) So avoiding using high toxical chemicals for the production it the one aspect - having a lower resources consumption with a longer livetime another. Green greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Airplain mode Re: Cellular usage
Salve Kyle! Wellcome to the openmoko community mailinglist ;) On Sun, 04 Feb 2007, Kyle wrote: I hope I am posting this properly. I was thinking about my infrequent airline trips and their dislike of cell phones. Is there any possibility to turn off the transmitter in software? Yes the hardware will allows to turn off the GSM transmitter. Inside the Neo1973 will be a GSM chip from TI. The System on a chip (SoC) will communicate with this chip with at commands via a serial connection. One of this at commands (you maybe knows them from using modems) will switch off and on the GSM transmitter. To find more about airplain mode discussion we already had on this list use our listarchive and/or google airpain mode site:openmoko.org http://www.google.de/search?q=airplain+mode+site%3Aopenmoko.org One of our ideas was to use GPS to switch the device on again - or to remind the user to do so. So your welcome to share your ideas, wishes and questions here - maybe you will find some inspiring ideas in our list archive: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/ Last official announcement from the teamleader Sean Moss-Pultz: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/ - http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/00.html Hope my mail helps you, Greetings rob (just a student, active on this list) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: enviroment friendly development for v2?
Salve Tomasz! On Sun, 04 Feb 2007, Tomasz Zielinski wrote: 2007/2/4, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Don't get me wrong, I don't ask for making all better from the beginning - but on the longterm, it would be nice to promote OpenMoko/Neo1973 also with ecological criterias. Average OpenMoko user takes a bath once a week. iPhone user takes a shower twice a day! Buy Neo1974, save the Earth! :-] Wow what a seriously answer. It seems that you haven'd used the link: http://www.greenpeace.org/international/campaigns/toxics/electronics/copy-of-how-the-companies-line Ok, when you are only interested in competing with iPhone - greenpeace is helping to seperate from Apple: http://www.greenpeace.org/raw/content/international/press/reports/greener-electronics-apple-rank-2.pdf No keyboard is a good design to be able to use it for a longer time :) You can still use phones made in 60's, are you sure touchscreen will survive 40 years too? ;-) First I was comparing mobil phones, second, because the touchscreen has no mechanical parts, I think it is possible to produce this touchscreen in a way, that 80% are usable in 40 years. And making the case strong enough to be able to use the mobile outdoor and in the rain would help using the touchscreen in 40 years as well. But you are not seriously it makes a big differance if the devices are usable due crap keys or no softwareupgrade posibilities for 2 years, or if the Neo1973 will be used for 10 years. I was not kidding with a ecologicaly view on mobil phones, we can bring OpenMoko and the Neo1973 into seriously science - influence of OpenSoftware to reduce hardware cycles - it is absolutly unsmart to produce devices only for 1-2 year use. And your kidding replay let me thing that with OpenMoko it would be possibe to go one stepp further - recycling of old smartphones 1. refurbishment and selling them with OpenMoko 2. desodering ICs and recycling of SoCs, GSM ICs, displays and condensors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tantalum I don't think there is any other consumer electronic device that is generally replaced every 12 months. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6174422.stm Visit Nokia Sustainable products: http://www.nokia.com/A4197011 And I think it is possible to find studies about the ecological footprint of mobil devices like: http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1162/108819806775545330 See: http://howgeen.blogspot.com/2006/12/mobile-phone-one-more-enemy-for-earth.html In our mind, the mobile phone's not associated yet with the environmental, social or economic problems that it leads to. However, some figures are scary: nearly 30 kg of raw materials are necessary to manufacturate a device of about 100 grams! And in the world, one estimates that a billion devices are living! [...] http://www.wwf.be/fr/index.cfm?group=newsmenu=factsheets.cfmpage=factsheets/campaign/gsm-environment.cfm PC 764m^2 mobil phone 32m^2 http://www.weeeman.org/html/impact/footprint.html BTW the ieee has an IEEE 802.3 Energy Efficient Ethernet Study Group: http://www.ieee802.org/3/eee_study/ The more I think about ecolgical points with OpenMoko/Neo1973 as more I think it could be a good promoting argument. 1. OpenMoko/Neo1973 give the user the freedom to update and install new software - independent from the hardware producer or network provider. This gives a perspective to use the Neo1973 longer then any other smartphone with a fast changing market - mostly protocolls 2. The ecological footprint of a smart phone is much smaller than that of a PC or laptop - giving full Linux power to the Neo1973 it will reduce the need for a PC/Laptop That could be combined with avoiding toxical chemicals during producing, posibilities to repair devices and recycling ideas So I would not talk about to aim a livetime of 40 years, but what about sinicicant longer livetime (5-10 years) than normal smart phones? Green greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: enviroment friendly development for v2?
Salve Joe! On Sun, 04 Feb 2007, Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Robert Michel writes: You can still use phones made in 60's, are you sure touchscreen will survive 40 years too? ;-) First I was comparing mobil phones, second, because the touchscreen has no mechanical parts, I think it is possible to produce this touchscreen in a way, that 80% are usable in 40 years. Resistive touchscreens do have the eqivalent of a mechanical part: You are right about resistive touchscreens, but will the Neo not have an optical touchscreen? Or is the v1/v2 without multitouch? Greetings rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: enviroment friendly development for v2?
Salve Oleg! Oleg L. Sverdlov schrieb am Sonntag, den 04. Februar 2007 um 23:36h: All this is good. a) how the company (FIC) is supposed to make a profit by manufacturing less phones? Who is saying that FIC should produce less phones ;) When FIC is producing phones which are usable 2-5 longer than the other phones on the market, than this is a good argument to choce a phone from FIC. Don't forget that FIC steps new into a quite closed market. b) let's say my phone will last 10 years . How can I be sure that my cellular provider will use the same technology for many years (with only software upgrades required)? You cant upgrade to UMTS, but for phoning with GSM it should be good enough. When the GSM chip would be on a small module, even network technologie would be upgradable. There are companies that create sell refurbished phones to 3rd world countries for cheap, so the situation is not grim enough. AFAIK less then 2% of the mobils are going to recycled. My 12 years old hp48 calculator is still very usefull, so I don't find any reason (from the consumer view) why a live cycle of a smartphone couldn't be 10 years as well. Not the hardware was the limiting factor on the phones of the last years - the software was it. Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AT commands (Re: But wich GSM chip? Re: AT commands document (Was: Fax modem? Fax software? Neo as T.38 gateway?))
Salve Harald! Harald Welte schrieb am Samstag, den 03. Februar 2007 um 14:49h: I put the list into the wiki - it would be fine to mark out which are not the optional ones and how to use them. So from this list, every contribution, commentation of this commands are welcome. For everything but the few TI-proprietary ones, all this is in the GSM standard. I don't think it's worth replicating that inforation. For the standard we can takeover this informations http://wiki.openezx.org/AT_commands Not now - in some weeks a list and information about the TI-proprietary ones would be fine. If the community learns something about the TI-proprietary commands, that's certainly a different thing. E.g. the network quality - nearly non of us would run around (daily) with mobil/laptop/GPS device to monitor the networkquality, but with the Neo1973 it could be an interesting thing. network quality is sent as event from GSM Modem to our gsmd, from where any process can get it over a unix domain socket. Yes, and the community could collect some first step examples to make starting the first step using the freedom on the Neo more easy :) Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
What would be a realistic but challenging level for Bryce announced trophy money for video playback on the Neo1973? Re: h.264 format is now open?
Salve Bryce,*! Some video information given by Sean in november: http://www.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000340.html On Fri, 02 Feb 2007, Bryce Leo wrote: Yeah, for management. Actual Video decoding is done by a dedicated chip, Broadcom BCM2722. Good find. I guess i should have just checked wikipedia instead of googling would have gotten me much better information. I will however still bet $50 (first taker actually gets payout) that there will be a way to play video on the phone. I think your $50 has to go to somebody of the core developer team: [EMAIL PROTECTED] play robs-video.wav ; display robs-video-animated.gif ;) Which resolution and frames/s should have the video to win your prize? In some way a low resolution should run quite soon - for full or have resultion could external hardware help, or a much memory eating pre-decryption... So let us find a realistic but challenging level for your trophy money? I thought about to join with a more symbolic amount of 10 Euro (I'm just a student) but then I thought when 100 people would join and the trophy money is a big prize, maybe the competion would disturb people of charing their first success/ideas... What do you think? Would it better instead of joining the Bryce-video-prize when everybody is looking for an own (symbolic) prize? And what about a deadline to reach it? March 11th + 3 month = June 11h? Who is geeing all the unreached prizes? The Core developer team? Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Voice over GPRS?
Salve Terrence,*! Terrence Barr - Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded schrieb am Freitag, den 02. Februar 2007 um 17:52h: VoIP calls typically require approx. 120 kbit/s *each* direction, that's 240 kbit/s for a two-way conversation. http://www.asteriskguru.com/tools/bandwidth_calculator.php [*] speex [*] iax2 Incoming Bandwidth Calls: 1 RTP: 4.69 Kbps UDP: 3.13 Kbps IP: 7.81 Kibps Protocol: IAX2 REGULAR Audio Codec: 2 Kbps *IAX2 REGULAR is not using RTP or RTCP! Outgoing Bandwidth Calls: 1 RTP: 4.69 Kbps UDP: 3.13 Kbps IP: 7.81 Kibps Protocol: IAX2 REGULAR Audio Codec: 2 Kbps *IAX2 REGULAR is not using RTP or RTCP! Incoming bandwidth: 14.5 Kbps 0.01 Mbps 1.81 KBps 0 MBps Outgoing bandwidth: 14.5 Kibps 0.01 Mbps 1.81 KBps 0 MBps Total bandwidth (incoming and outgoing): 29 Kbps 0.03 Mbps 3.63 KBps 0 MBps 29Kbps = 3.625 kByte/s VoIP over cellular is just not feasible at this point. I was not speaking about VoIP, I was talking about asyncron voice services like the buzzthingy Push to talk - but I do not whant to push - Talk to talk would be more smart - no need to press a button. Without syncron communication the overhead would be lower On 2/2/07, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Salve! Does anybody has experiances/ideas about Voice over GPRS? How long is the delay? It could maybe used for asyncron voice communication Talk2Talk (instead of pushing a button) In Germany did three Prepaid Provider published new Tariffs with 0.24Euro/MB. German pages: http://teltarif.de/arch/2007/kw05/s24754.html data cost calculator: http://teltarif.de/mobilfunk/datenrechner.html I think with this tariffs using mobil data becomes interesting ;) By using 1KB/s for audio and some overhead, let us say 2 KB/s 0.24Euro/MB = 24 Cent for 500 seconds, 60 seconds makes then about 3 cents. When both using this 6 cents. Hmm that would be interesting when the user makes often make brakes/pause in their talk. Sorry guys, I was not asking about codecs, I was just asking about delay on GPRS. ;) Should I start again with a more simple example? I will send a voicemessage of 20 seconds to my friend. My Tarrif would cost with 60/1 second counting full 16 Cent. 20 second audio with 2.150 kbit/s will create a file of 43 kbit = 5.375 kByte. 0.24Euro/MByte GPRS traffic with 10KB block will calculate 10 kByte for the message to my frind, this makes 0.0024 Euro = 0.24 Cent for me. So my question would be how much delay will bring a GPRS connection compared with normal internet connections? Greetings, rob Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Ok I should write _asyncrone_ Voice over GPRS in the subject from the beginning ... ; )
Salve Andreas! On Fri, 02 Feb 2007, Andreas Kostyrka wrote: * Paul Wouters [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070202 18:18]: On Fri, 2 Feb 2007, Terrence Barr - Evangelist, Java Mobile Embedded wrote: Also, most data plans specifically prohibit VoIP usage and may even prevent it technically. AFAIK, only T-Mobile did that, and they removed that clause a few months ago. Eplus does have that clause too. Who cares? When the communication is asyncron we could store the voice date in one file that even is encrypted... .. when we talking about asycrone Voice over GPRS - voice chat with a little delay... Cheers, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
What more to add to http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/GPRS ? Re: Voice over GPRS?
Salve Paul! Paul Wouters schrieb am Freitag, den 02. Februar 2007 um 18:13h: On Fri, 2 Feb 2007, Robert Michel wrote: Does anybody has experiances/ideas about Voice over GPRS? See: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rc277/globe02.pdf Thank you, I direcly put this good source into our wiki :) Sorry for switching now to GPRS general: For the GPRS connection in general would be more interesting: - firewall on the Neo - what is with GPRS push services? - how to count the GPRS traffic (to count equal to the provider) - a limitation of data/hour data/day data/week data/month with user warning - statistic for GPRS traffic use - for prepaid cards automaticaly checking the prepaid credit/money on account -- before and after calls -- each day/hour or each 10MB GPRS traffic And just an idea in case that the Neo has only GPRS class B: Using another old GSM mobil with GPRS and Bluetooth - so using Internet connection while phonig whith the help of the second phone. BTW do you think two low quality phone connecitons would be possible via 9600 Baud? Greetings rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Crytped calls through 9600Baud GSM-data connections?
Salve Paul! Paul Wouters schrieb am Freitag, den 02. Februar 2007 um 20:43h: On Fri, 2 Feb 2007, Robert Michel wrote: Did you discussed OTP, using less mobile device batterypower to add to the voicestream to build an encrypted connection between on users mobil and his homeserver? Nope. In general, devices these days have enough cpu power to just do AES. CPU isn't the limiting factor, latency and/or bandwith are. (for voice encryption at least) CPU isn't maybe a limiting factor, I thought about the batterypower :) And OTP would give an latency advantage as well. ;) -would piping through such a connection possible without TCP or other overhead? If you do a gsm dat call, you can of course run your own protocol like cryptophone does. My question is, would it be possibe to run 2 low quality phone calls via one GSM data connection with speex? Or when not having a second phone call, the connection could be used for data transmission. PS: I made advertisement on this list for your presentation in Berlin, and that this video is no online - but good that mention that it is online again - it worth for the most here on the list to see it. I moved some files and removed the ASF file in favour of the mp4 file, since the ASF file caused a lot of problems for people to get to play. But there are also other mirrors... see my mail and my downloadscript: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001561.html Greetins, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Other uses for the gsm/gprs hardware....
Salve Tim! On Fri, 02 Feb 2007, Tim Newsom wrote: While the phone is not on a call, can we use the gsm audio codec or other hardware/software to do useful work? For instance, decoding of some audio file or something like that. Yes but not with the GSM IC - the Neo1973 itself has a quite powerfull audio IC, to be accurate, wolfson WM8753 - see Seans mail: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-December/000737.html I know we don't have access to the bare metal of the chip, but its probably at least an arm processor with some dsp or something right? I would think it could be useful in some way other than just phone calls/data transfer. Of course ;) we had already several normal or freaky ideas what to do with it. Sorry that not every idea is in our wiki yet.. but we have our mailarchive. Just see the Neo as a mobil (embedded) computer + Linux + GSM/GPRS + AGPS + Bluetooth Have you had something special in mind to do with the audio IC? Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
2-3 flavours ; ) Re: the power of defaults Re: Any alternative ideas to fullscreen popup-messages?
Salve Bryan,Mickey,*! IMHO an important usergroup for OpenMoko/Neo1973 (in the beginning) will be *nix administrators, developers and maintainers. A comfortable ssh client will makes their smartphone to a mobile terminal - that the device is trustworthy is very important... They are used to use Linux without GUI or with spartanic GUI and they are used that the tools behave very predictable - a vim window will not be suddendy overlapped by a popup window. Mickey wrote it is still just a phone - well, for me is the mobil shell, mobil (emebedded) linux computing more important than that the Neo1973 is a phone. I like it, that i can phone with it and I also like to contribute ideas/solution to make phoning more confortable: that not everybody is bothering me in just the moment when *he* wants to talk with me, while I'm - eating - learning - paying in a shop - changing the train - I'm writing an SMS/Email And I'm not thinking to swith off the phone or just rejecting the incomming calls as alternative - I serveral cases just 2-10 seconds would be perfect to finish something that I'm would doing with my Neo as PDA or mobil computer/shell I just want the comfort when I have PDA and GSM phone as two seperate devices. And I do not care about the need to have one step more to answer a call, when I would work with a PDA I would have also 2 steps 1. get the phone into my hand 2. answer the call With OpenMoko 1. swith to telephone mode/screen (with a keystroke for the austere/Spartan lovers, one icon as compromise (LED for the future would be interesting :))) 2. answer the call While not using the Neo as PDA/mobil computer/mobil shell it will behave just like a Phone, one step to pick up the call. On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Bryan Fink wrote: On 1/31/07, Andrew Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My preference would be some system whereby I could select a list of events that are allowed to interrupt me, and to what level they're allowed to interrupt - visual: fullscreen/halfscreen/footer/none; audio: interrupt/mix over/none. This seems like too much work to setup profiles/configurations etc. Most users probably wouldn't bother. Very important to consider The Power of Defaults :) See Flickr and default Public on photos vs. private by all the other photo sites. A *very* good point. I fell into the typical developer trap of casting myself as an average user there for a minute. Hell, now that I think about it further, even I'd get tired of switching options and settle on some, probably less than optimal, default. :P So when OpenMoko have 2-3 flavors like -OpenMoko Normal (with bothering instant popups like every other smartphone) -OpenMoko austere/Spartan/Guru/Admin/Expert/ It would be ease to develope with just 2-3 different flavors. Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[moved to community mailinglist]Re: ruby in openmoko
Salve Fred! Welcome to the OpenMoko community. :) On Thu, 01 Feb 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I am new to this mailing list. I have not seen any email mentioning Ruby and Rails. Can anyone please forward old emails relating to ruby in openmoko? please use google with site:openmoko.org ruby I am a newbie to ruby. But heard that ruby is a programming language that can make life of a programmer a little bit comfortable. That's why I am starting to learn it. When somebody makes a packet for ruby, it will be possible to install ruby with OpenMoko - AFAIK is this not done yet and I can imagine that ruby will be not installed by default (But I'm just a listmember and not memeber of the core developing team). Of course ruby is a language with a great potential, but consider that the Neo1973 is still an embedded device with limited recources. So a concentration on some used languages will save recources and will make cooperation more easy. Developing and learning with OpenMoko could be more fruitfull when using languages which are used with OpenMoko regulary. That I moved with your mail to the other list is not personal, every idea or questions seems to deal with development, so on the first view you have choosen the right mailinglist. But what for what does we need then the community mailinglist? We have a second development list to make it people who are working on a concret programming project with OpenMoko more easy to start - to find informations... So a general question will be xy comming with OpenMoko is a community question ;) And don't get me wrong, on a long term (next months) it would be very fine to have the power to use ruby with OpenMoko, that people having good programs/skripts with ruby could also use them with OpenMoko. With google you will find some talk about ruby on the community mailinglist, and when the first Neos are shipped, I think some of the first users will play/use Ruby so that then it will be more to read/discuss. Maybe some other ruby interested people on this community list? (community list is older and has much more members) Beside Ruby you are also welcome to share your ideas/whishes about an open Linux Smartphone ;) Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Posibility to get status informations with the help of a LED
Salve denis! denis schrieb am Donnerstag, den 01. Februar 2007 um 11:03h: I searched the different hardware specs and archives of the mailing list but didn't find any information if LEDs will be one part of the hardware. AFAIK the Neo1973 v1 will have no LEDs (beside the screen backlight and inside the touchscreen) One of the most important things, from my point of view, talking abount a mobile phone is the possibility to get a silent alarm with the help of a LED. A binking screen should be visibel enough. So is something like this planed? We collected some ideas for the next version of the Neo and having one or more LEDs are already an idea/wish discussed here. Greetings rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
11 Lanuages :) Re: Wikipedia update
Salve Sergio! On Thu, 01 Feb 2007, Sergio Bessa wrote: OpenMoko in Portuguese http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenMoko Great! I have also seen that we have a finish version new as well! Was it your work, Janni-Matti? So that makes 11 languages now :))) Hey this is fun and shows how powerfull our community already is - 11 languages strong! [[da:OpenMoko]] [[de:OpenMoko]] [[en:OpenMoko]] [[es:OpenMoko]] [[fi:OpenMoko]] [[fr:OpenMoko]] [[it:Openmoko]] [[nl:OpenMoko]] [[pl:OpenMoko]] [[pt:OpenMoko]] [[ru:OpenMoko]] So it is easy to join and spend some minutes for translating, and when someone finds some mistakes in any languages don't blame the translator - just be productive and fix it yourself! Any ideas how to make the english article better? And that OpenMoko will be found by Wikipedia users, we can gives OpenMoko some links inside the wikipedia for every languages at pages that makes sence like: WhatLinkshere http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/OpenMoko * Symbian OS * Smartphone * Embedded Linux * Open source hardware * List of smartphones * TuxPhone * Openmoko (redirect page) * Neo1973 (redirect page) Mentioned on Symbion OS page? See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbian_OS Maby this is not a neutral way to link OpenMoko, IMHO it is better to have less links from other articles but un-disputed. BTW Whats the role of OpenEmbedded for OpenMoko? So suggestion: let us first make the linking of the english version better, and then use this linking ideas for other languages. A list which is growin as well is: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Translation :) At last the list of translated wikipedia articles could grow with (Afrikaans),Hebrew,(Japanese) and Turkish. This OpenMoko project makes much fun ;) Cheers, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
One general wish - let us make encryption as easy then possible!
Salve Sean! paranoid on Sean Moss-Pultz schrieb am Donnerstag, den 01. Februar 2007 um 19:28h: Well, you're not wrong, certainly: people use MMS even though it _is_ horribly broken (and expensive, etc.) I guess the point I'm attempting to make here is that in addition to the challenges in just getting a working phone out the door, you sign up to take on what seems, to me, anyway, to be a pretty substantial educational exercise. Agreed. But we're trying our best to discourage the common user until phase 2 of our roadmap. This will give us time to see if this educational exercise produces something better than MMS. Both fingers are crossed ;-) It doesn't matter if it is about SMS,(MMS),instant messaging (jabber?),email, phonecalls or data connections (sftp/https/ssh/freenx/...) I would like to see a good security/encryption/keyhandling/OTP support as core function in the OpenMoko design. OpenMoko/Neo1973 has so much potential to achieve both - a high level of security *and* usability. E.g. the device modus of USB allows that the Neo1973 is a virtual cryptocard that protects your private key when you are working with a workstation/server... Meeting people would a great chance to exchange public keys and sign them. Non OpenMoko users you could give a J2ME applet and 140 KB random data (SMS has 160*7 Bit = 140*8 Bit) as OTP for your next 1000 SMS For companies would it be interesting to hide even the information which employee is communicate with whom - e.g. every 15 minutes every employee upload and download a dummy packet with or without information inside. Can't understand companies trusting blackberry by giving them all their sensible communication on blackberry servers. Greetings, rob PS: It is not a question if you are paronoid, it's a question if you are paranoid enough ;) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: data encryption + Biometric security
Salve Ben! First it sounds a very smart idea to have biometric security, but sorry, when I give you some sceptical feedback. On Thu, 01 Feb 2007, Ben Burdette wrote: Here are a couple of items for the phone wish list: data encryption and biometric security. Biometric security wasn't discussed by the OpenMoko community yet, I'm no crypto expert, but I'm not convinced that biometric worth the hardware... see: http://www.ccc.de/biometrie/fingerabdruck_kopieren When somebody wants to play with biometric security the Neo1973 could be used for voiceanalysing - Print 7 random words to the screen and the user has to read them aloud ... I'd like the phone to be a secure place for me to store passwords and similar information. Are there plans to have some security features like this, that would prevent someone from extracting secure data from the phone if it was lost? A file could have an encrypted filesystem, acess is given only for a while and only while GPRS connection is on. If it is lost, use Internet or an asterisk server to unmount this file. Having a fingerprint scanner would be more of a convenience feature so I wouldn't have to enter a password whenever I want use the phone, or alternatively when I want to access encrypted data. Sounds nice, but I have doubts that a fingerscanner is given real security. I will going to play with my (Debian) Crytoflex card, but not to make access more easy - to make it more secure. So when I have to lost both - my Neo and my Cryptotoken. projectblackdog.com costs 199US$+Chiping for me to expensive. But this is just my 2cents When somebody has such a finger scanner and likes to make it running with OpenMoko would be fine - but expect also some feedback that the fingerscanner concept is not so secure as it looks like: google finger scanner site:www.schneier.com Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Wish list: Call Forwarding from Neo
Salve Mary! On Thu, 01 Feb 2007, Mary Stovel wrote: I can set up my voip service to forward calls to my cell (or any or multiple numbers). Because my home phone calls are less expensive than my cell calls...when I am at home, I would like my cell phone calls to ring over to my home phone. It would be good if the cell phone could be programed to ring first. I do not like to tell people, who call me on my cell to call me back on my home phone, or to ask them to hang up to let me call them back. At least this, until I get a Neo with voip and I use it as my ONLY phone! Asterisk PBX will help to do this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterisk When you have more than 256 Kb/s up and downstream you could have e.g. a NSLU2 at home to let asterisk running - or, I do have a Linux vserver for 3 Euro/Month. Asterisk is a telephonyserver which can work with SIP and also with ISDN cards Let me explain, what I use already: I have a Voip with a land line number with is cheap for my friends to call - just like normal land line numbers. My asterisk forward this call to my VoIP ATA (Greandstream HandyTone 286, will be replaced with a AVM Fritz Box) and my GSM mobil. When I'm at home I can pick up the call (without costs for me), when I pick up the call with my GSM mobil, I pay less then when my friends would call me from their land line... With the Neo1973 some improvements become possible 1. probably it is possible to forward the call via Bluetooth 2. via GPRS can I transmitt the caller id to the GSM 3. when I'm at my parents place I can switch asterisk to forward my incoming calls to my parents place. When a incoming call is comming an asterisk script will inform my Neo is ringing and a Infoscreen (mayby Popup :) says: Mary is calling forwarded to your Parents line So I can say before my parents phone ring - next call is for me ... and pick up the call The same when I visit my friends who use VoIP, then I can forward the call free of costs. With AGPS I can automatisated this forwarding. Asterik can play an intro when sombody picks up the call at my parents place This is a call for robert When you doing something like this with your office or somewhere else - Asterisk can ask you for a Code This is a call for Robert, please enter your code I will write more about these scenarious in about two weeks when I have more time. Consider that some of this ideas needs some development.. but the Neo1973 has a high potential to do nice things... To answer your subject in a short way: The best solution for forwarding calls would on a server, not on the Neo itself. So not forwarding *from* Neo, forwarding *to* the Neo. Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: data encryption + Biometric security
Salve Mark! On Thu, 01 Feb 2007, Heilpern, Mark wrote: Watching things like tv's MythBusters defeat fingerprint sensors is interesting and entertaining, but when you know they're using several year old, out-dated technology for the sensors they evaluate, you might suspect that there's more to the story that they're telling you. The German Chaos Computer Club ccc.de is not a TV program, that are quite good hackers - and also Bruce Schneier is. Rodolphe gave allready a good feedback that lake of information does not creats trust. E.G. the team of the GPG-crypto-card had to sign a NDA - so I do not trust this cards that - the algorithm didn't get extention - that the random generator is good enough - that this cards didn't have a backdoor - that the encryption result doesn't have hidden the private key inside. I wrote I'm no crypto expert - but that does not mean that I have my knowledge from the TV. BTW I trust several years old CPU and network chips more than modern chips. Disclaimer: I work for a fingerprint sensor manufacturer. I doe very welcome that people of fingerprint sensor manufactures are active here on this list. I'm just a normal member on this list (btw a civil engineering student with some ICT interest) I'm not speaking for more than for myself. I will not negate that finger sensors could be interesting, but security is not just a quetion of products and money you spent into - the slogan you always get what you paid for is definitve wrong for security. For secure systems it is relevant good when everybody understand how it is working - e.g. voting box and paper votings are IMHO more secure then voting PC could be... So the question is for what is the fingerprint sensor used on the phone 1.) avoiding calls on your bill 2.) secure your adressbook 3.) secure your private keys For 1. and 2. a fingerprint sensor brings more comfort and would be IMHO OK. But about 3 IMHO we are talking about a field - where simple and open solutions would be better - and security is more important then comfort. Let us assume I would become maintainer of some OpenMoko packets and my private key to sign would be on my Neo1973 - I hope it will be so trustworthy that this would not be seen as negligent/careless how could a fingerprinter enhanced the security for this private key? Don't get me wrong, there are many fields where not as much security as possible would be neccessary and a Neo1973 with build in fingerscanner could become a very interesting product, e.g. when somebody has employees which he could/will trust less then your company authentec.com So I do see a perspective for next generation Neos or Third party modificated Neos with buildin fingerscanners - so playing with external scanners to have some prototypes would help starting this market field - and I personal would like to see individuell modification of OpenMoko and the Neo1973 - train ticket device with printer - barcodescanner for logistic task - fingerscanner for... So yes this topic is interesting for some markets. I don't think that for normal skilled linux user a fingerprint sensor could be a full replacement of his password protection - I only would use it __only__ as additional feature, __not__ as password replacement (for real secure task like protecting private keys). Ok let us speak Tachels - the calculation of the iphone has become publish and the AGPS chip producer GlobalLocate had published in his presentation that when buying more than 10k chips the AGPS costs less then 5 US-$. Can you tell us more about your products and which level of security would be possible with costs of 5 US-$ or less. Again, I'm just a student interested in this project and I would like to compare the cost and benefit of additional components for further Neo modells. ;) But beside my direct question, I would like see this discussion going on, not only the next days - experiances with OpenMoko and more information about fingerprint sensors could build a basis that it will continous in weeks or month - so please stay active here ;) Ah, and what you are thinking about the potential of multitouch screen sensors, could they be used for a fingersensor? This would have the advantage that no additional sensor field must be in/on the device. Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: AT commands (Re: But wich GSM chip? Re: AT commands document (Was: Fax modem? Fax software? Neo as T.38 gateway?))
Salve Harald! Thank you for the list. On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Harald Welte wrote: On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 09:11:53AM -0800, Dimitris Kogias wrote: Isn't the AT-capable port going to be available to userland via a serial abstraction? If so, its AT command profile won't be a secret very long. there's nothing secret about that AT command profile. The chipset supports all of the mandatory ETSI GSM TS 07.07 commands (use http://pda.etsi.org/pda/queryform.asp to get it), plus some of the optional ones. I put the list into the wiki - it would be fine to mark out which are not the optional ones and how to use them. So from this list, every contribution, commentation of this commands are welcome. So I really don't understand all this fuzz. It's really very much standard compliant. The fuzz could be based on - no documention yet what the chip supports - experiances that GSM devices/chips from siemens have own solutions - that some vendors has not good support/services Or positiv written that good documentations motivates to chooce a device/project to test and hack some ideas. Maybe it was a missunderstanding when we ask about the chip, it was not about secret things, just about normal open documentation about it. Even when the Neo1973 is not shipped, this list and e.g. the information about fax could motivate some people here on the list to start playing with there eqipment and tools to be a little bit prepared ... E.g. the network quality - nearly non of us would run around (daily) with mobil/laptop/GPS device to monitor the networkquality, but with the Neo1973 it could be an interesting thing. So thank you for this list, it helps to think about the power of the Neo1973 and motivats to play with AT commands... :) Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Q: How does USB hubs work? Re: Multiple USB Devices
Salve! On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Michael Fletcher wrote: I was wondering, I have been searched the mailing list, but can't seem to find an answer. Will it be possible to connect a powered USB HUB into the 1973. So that for example the phone can charge, have a USB WiFi dongle attached and a USB mouse/keyboard all connected at the same time? yes. Brilliant! Thanks for that :-) So now the question, how does an USB hub work? Can we plug in the host on any port? The Neo1973 will have mini-USB-B normal hubs powered USB-A for the adapter and one unpowerd USB-B for the host. So to connect the Neo with a PC we have a mini-USB-B to USB-A cable. 1.) Can we plug the Neo with USB-A it into the (battery powered) hub and charge it whith it? (I think yes) 2.) Can we plug the Neo with USB-A it into the (battery powered) hub and use an USB device plugged into the hub? So reducing the USB connector and adapter mess... we could modifiy a (battery powered) hub in a way that on USB-A port will be an unpowered one (or just switchable power). Then could we deccide if we want to charge the Neo with the hub or not. (And we don't need a mini-USB-B to USB-B cable/adapeter) So how behave USB hubs? Just stupied forwarding to every port, no special host port (internaly)? Greetings rob PS: And what would happen when two hosts are connected to one hub? ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Please no crossposting! Re: Information regarding the Messaging Support in OpenMoko
Salve Suresh! I'm just a listmember, but maybe my answer will help you. The core developers are very busy at the moment so everybody has to use patience when things will be published. And also the official realease would create more feedback when they are able to publish unpublished fakts ... :) On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Suresh Kumar Sugguna wrote: Can any one of the developer inform me about the messaging (SMS or EMS or MMS) support in OpenMoko? I was searching for the specification document or web address (link) regarding the messaging support in OpenMoko software code. AFAIK when the first Neo1973 will be shipped to devleopers in February/March SMS function will be running. I don't think that EMS and MMS is limmted by hardware, so it will be a question of time when this will be running as well. Consider that full running devices for endusers will be shipped in September - so the devices now are for pleople who like to develope or testing - it should be not a mobile replacement for productive use for pleople that only want to have a working device. Kindly mail me your responses at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kindly please consider that on mailing list could be thousands, on some several ten thousands of subscriber. Crossposting is not polite - better is to choose *one* mailinglist and wait for response, and for question like this, the community mailinglist would be the right one. My formal reaction is not personl... I just try to avoid uncultivated crossposting that makes the separate developer mailingist contraproductive. community = open community dissucssion about everything, ideas, whishes, questions, documentation, translations... openmoko-devel = software design - SDK questions... And the access to the OpenMoko deleloper launch box is not restricted to openmoko-devel poster, this box is also going to community poster ;) Waiting for your express replies, Hope that my answer was quick and informative enough. And don't get me wrong - I'm happy about your interest about OpenMoko/Neo1973 and the question about EMS and MMS is a good one - but let us give the core team time until the 11th Februar - see Sean's (project leader) roadmap anouncment: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/00.html So you are very welcome on the community mailinglist to share your wishes and ideas what we could do with OpenMoko better then existing smart phone solutions. E.g. because you are interested in SMS/EMS/MMS - do you have any ideas, what we could make better? How? Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary Re: Translators needed?
Salve Engin! On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Engin Erenturk wrote: In my opinion the translations must be done professionally for such a product like this. Instead of volunteers who are not professionals, volunteers who are professionals and volunteer who can provide a professional translation must localize this product. I localized RSSOwl into Turkish, and I gathered 3 of my friends and discussed every one of the phrases translated. But in the end it is not like a professional translation. It's very important to give the same meaning of the sentence in the localized language instead of pure translation. Sometimes it is very hard to do such a thing. The best example is the Microsoft products, even I don't support or like them, they did great job in localization... They got a big book of meanings of words/phrases which are used in Microsoft products, books etc. If someone wants to do a translation for the books etc. they gave this didctionary to them to use it as reference dictionary... As I said if there are volunteers who are professionsals and who can localize it with professionals must be found... I'll try to get in touch with a professional translator who is experienced in technical translations if there is a need for Turkish localization. I would like to disagre. Open translation has the big advantage that people could give feedback about the translations - many opensource projects include the wikipedia are working without the support of professional translators. Getting in touch with professional translators would help in some rar cases of doubts/dispute. IMHO more important is that the people who translate does know what the software device do at that moment. Some meta translation - creating an own specialised dictionary for mobil communications could help to do the translations. Has anybody experiances with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary? Would it possible to join Wiktionary with having a specialised dictionary for mobil communication OpenMoko-Wiktionary? Greetings rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary Re: Translators needed?
Salve Engin! I like your motivation and your will to find a some experienced in localisation/translation. You have the experiance with the localization of RSSOwl and that the help of 3 friends seems not to be enought to reach a professional translation. On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Engin Erenturk wrote: I think you got me wrong. I'm not against open translations, I know how wikipedia works, and I really believe thats the true way for many areas. What I want to say that, this is a phone and this phone can be used anyone... so the localizations must be done very carefully, because you have to tell the user the exact meaning or explanation of an icon, a small text, or a button. You are right, whe you are publishing it, you must be carefull. I thought about to translate man pages into German, but I didn't done it, because I saw this is to complecated - I don't find the right words for 100%. So when we have an open system, a translation into German would be read by many people that I do not know - when they have a better formulation they could change it - maybe with a small comment why, maybe with a small hint where there have this expression from. This is what I'm facing at the Turkish of the devices I've got. Even some world brand devices have really bad localizations.For example I've a Sony handycam and the menu localization is terrible. I'm not saying that a pro must do this and no one can change it. I say, someone experienced in localization of this kind of devices can be very useful. Useful yes. A good friend of mine has one of his job at his company to test software of mobiles for big companies... I'm telling him about OpenMoko/Neo1973, but I do not try to get some help from him. So manybe a professional translator does have some seperation of business and freedomwork as well - I don't know. I just tried to encorage you and other to do not think my skills are not good enough, we need a professional for this.. no - OpenMoko is a training field where you can join for fun, for getting some new skills, for supporting this project and the reposablility of a good translation will not belongs to you - it will belongs to the community. When somebody take the time and did a translation as good as he could - and nobody who read this will make some improvements - then the others are reponsable for the bad localization. Having very low barrier/hurdle to support this project is very important - I hope everybody will be surprised what he could contribute and how easy it was... So I didn't want to stop you - I only tried to motivate and encourage that everybody has skills good enough to contribute - no professional skills needed :) best wishes from Aachen, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
We have alread 9 languages! :) Re: Translators needed?
Salve José! Your offer started a very fruitfull thread - thank you! On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, José Suárez wrote: Hi to everybody. I've been quite excited about the OpenMoko development and release schedule. I'm pretty sure I would like to buy one Neo1973 when they were available and became usable. I'm not a developer and don't know how to code, but I would like to contribute to the OpenMoko project to make it great. Given that the only way I think I could help at the moment is by translating some of the UI/GUI messages Your mail started a very fruitfull thread, we have no the offer of translation help for 9! languages :) Please all visit: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Translation and add your name when you like to join. As more people like to help for one languages as better, and less work for everybody ;) Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is vim included out-of-the-box or shall i port? (was: Re: Development environment
Salve Richi! On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Richi Plana wrote: On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 08:52 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speaking of vim, will vim (or another derivitive of vi) be among the included applications, or shall I try cross-compiling it right now? (I can't live w/out vim). To justify this being on the developer list and not the community list I could pretend that only developers will want vim on their Neo. Why would you want vim (or any source editor) running on your Neo? First of all, the primary interface to the Neo is still its touchscreen. Keyboards won't be available for a while. This isn't true. Battery powerd USB hubs and USB Keyboards are on the market and costs togehter less then 20Euro. And most text edior have a uniq way how they behave - so having several ediors for the users to choose that on that they used to - it will be a good solution for everybody - no need to start an editor flamewar :)) And I'm realy happy about the desin without a keyboard but a great touchscreen of the Neo. Short text input / modification with the touchscreen, writing more text = using an external normal keyboard, IMHO the perfect solution for a mobil computer. I, myself like to use vim, I use vim to write my emails - mutt is calling vim and so I would like when vi (with busybox) or vim is on the neo. Touchscreen is a point to think about that a virtual keyboard could be optimized for different editors.. e.g. is ESC often used, working with vim.. :) BTW vim is also usable with the textbrowser elinks - when editing text boxes... So I see demand and use for vim with OpenMoko. Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
2-3 parallel solution to choose by the user? Re: Any alternative ideas to fullscreen popup-messages?
Salve Mickey! I think many users could live with popups, but I would like to choose a solution that would not nag me with full or havesize popups I mean on the longterm, but as official design of Openmoko, working with every aplication. On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Let's distinguish two types of popup-dialogs: a) informative (i.e. battery low, incoming sms, sms sent) b) confirmative (Mickey calling. Answer / Ignore / Reject?, Do you want to remove all contacts?) b) I hope incomming call will not interupt me to do what I'm doing now Right now, we're leaning towards (ab)using the bottom status bar (in openmoko-language called 'footer') for informative dialogs and using half screen (480x320) popup dialogs for confirmative. - I guess a third 480x210 is to small? - could it be transparent? - will it passiv so that I can go on typing my email/chat and my external keyboard return will not activate the default of the pop up? - where will be the virtual keyboard at that moment? What do you think? I think for several application I would like to have *no* popup just a screen inverting flashing like with GNU screen and maybe a 1-3 pixel red or inverted frame around the whole screen - mabey with fast inverting flashing mayby with vibra or sound alarm... but a chance to to continous with the full screen. The user would swith with a special keystroke, or with a keyboard a spechial key combination to the open popup. With transparency The popupmessage could be in the background and a special keystrokes on the touchscreen could confirm, cancel or deny the popup e.g.: pickup - reject or ignore the call Or optional the text of the popup Incoming call Mikey is calling could be send to the speaker/headphone - this would inform me and wouldn't disturb my work. I thing 2 or 3 strong solutions could be forked and the user could choose in general of for a profil or for special aplications how the device behave. IMHO, one of the 2-3 solutions should be popup-free. When I work with my laptop and the phone rings, I can finshed what I'm doing and pickup the phone then - the same freedom would I like when computing and phone will be together in a smartphone. Could you understand my point? So in oposite to comercial products we have to chance offer 2-4 different design solutions how to work with the device. Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
I proposed to move to the community mailinglist Re: Please no crossposting! Re: Information regarding the Messaging Support in OpenMoko
Salve David! On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, David Ford wrote: p.s. the subject line is no crossposting! which list do people want this to remain on? I think it is clear that it is a general talk about SMS/MMS and not the question how to use the SDK, how to crosscompiling. Without a clear seperation of both list is having his 2 list contraproductive. The core developer and the most active people will read both list. openmoko-devel would be good to have with a focus on concrete coding issus so that programmer find information fast and good programmer will not unsubscribe because on to much general talk. community means not just a fan-club, maybe this will change with a shipping to endusers - but then I would be for a new mailingist for consumers: openmoko-users. community IMHO should be a general discussion place, and openmoko-devel when it is about coding problems or knowhow. E.g. the question about FAX modem, AT commands and GPRS class is also in a way about developing - but IMHO this topic is without any direct programming issue - so it is community. Also translation is important, also for developing software to have localisation, but the question who will could translate which language is general talk, better on community - it could also motivate people with low or no programming skill to join and support this great project. Then openmoko-devel would be stay clear that hackers/coders/programmers will find fast the information that they need. So excuse my action on this point, but without care about a clear separation, one list would be better then two. When Harald, Sean or Mickey have another idea about the use of community and openmoko-dev - please write us how to use the two list in a clear and efficient way. let us see what Harald has written: --snip-- 2) openmoko-devel at lists.openmoko.org This is a mailinglist dedicated to OpenMoko development. From developers, for developers, by developers. Please do not ask questions related product sales, availability, support, usage, wishlist items, licensing or any other topic that is not related to technical development on this list. Initially, we didn't want to start this list before 'Phase 0' (Feb. 11), i.e. when there are actually developers with the device in their hands, and when the source code has been released. However, due to the large demand, we were convinced that it was important to start this list right now. Nonetheless, keep in mind that the OpenMoko development team is extremely small. Everybody is concentrating to make the 'Phase 0' release happen on schedule. Therefore, the amount of time that we can spend to deal with
Wikipedia update :) Re: We have alread 9 languages! :) Re: Translators needed?
Salve Krzysztof! Great! Krzysztof Kajkowski schrieb am Mittwoch, den 31. Januar 2007 um 22:03h: 2007/1/31, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Please all visit: http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Translation and add your name when you like to join. Polnish seems to get a strong support :) I deceided to volunteer to do some polish translation. I translated several applications, my english is quite good (I use it all the time at work) and I think I manage ;) I also created polish wikipedia page: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenMoko Great now we do have OpenMoko in 9 languages in the wikipedia: [[da:OpenMoko]] [[de:OpenMoko]] [[en:OpenMoko]] [[es:OpenMoko]] [[fr:OpenMoko]] [[it:Openmoko]] - does this realy exist, please check... [[nl:OpenMoko]] [[pl:OpenMoko]] [[ru:OpenMoko]] I have updated the other languages links. *wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo1973 Also every language has now a Redirectto OpenMoko. #REDIRECT [[OpenMoko]]_ And to giving a litle back to FIC, we could translate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_International_Computer as well :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Charging while using USB devices possible? Re: Multiple USB Devices
Salve Michael! On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, Michael Fletcher wrote: I was wondering, I have been searched the mailing list, but can't seem to find an answer. Will it be possible to connect a powered USB HUB into the 1973. So that for example the phone can charge, have a USB WiFi dongle attached and a USB mouse/keyboard all connected at the same time? Good question, I can't answer this answer but *if* the Neo1973 hardware would support this: an external powerd (e.g. battery) USB HUB has ony one port for the host and this one is not powered by this HUB - so the user would have to hack the powered hub... Greetings rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Email Push Service :) smtp+dnotify+Asterisk+... :)
Salve, I can't understand why Blackberry and other has become so big into the market, because the server side software for a push service are normal linux admins tools. But wait - the client side need some open programmable devices - like OpenMoko and the Neo1973 :))) When GPRS is always on, than it needs just a emailclient checks regulary every n minutes for new mail - h that's innovation - didn't we used to use this fetching emails from pop, imap or mailboxes since years? (Myself since 1990) Soo I'm not keen in having an email push service, but I'm tired to hear the hype in the news about this. Again, when GPRS is always on, push service is silly buzzword, but what when GPRS is off? Than we can use 1. smtp and some filter to get only the right mails into /var/mail/rob2neo1973 2. dnotify will starts a script when a new file is in /var/mail/rob2neo1973 3. this script will copy a callfile with a seperate callerid into /var/spool/asterisk/outgoing 4. the Neo1973 gets a phonecall from this callerid, rejet this call and starts skript2 on the Neo 5. skript2 will switch on GPRS and fetch the new mail via POP or IMAP and after downloading the mail it will inform the user (depend on the dailingprofil) So did I missed something? Why is push services and the software for this such a hype? I thing this populare solution did not worth a look to see what we can copy - free imanigation will be more creative :) E.g. when having such a auto-download mechanism, it would be good, when could work with different cost and battery levels... - with hight data costs (e.g. beeing abroud) or low battery level only short information will be pushed - and wih very hight data cost or very low battery it will only show how many new mails/that new mails are in the servers box Giving different senders different priority would be fine - maye in combination of the profiles work/spare time And a way that the user cold set up it's server filter rules remotly with its Neo1973. I'm shure we will have much fun with OpenMoko/Neo1973 using standard tools on the Neo and on a server side :) Cheers, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
[moved to openmoko-community]Re: Translators needed?
Salve José! Welcome to Openmoko :) I'm just a student tring to support the community, so we do not have an official list moderator, and the official openmoko team member are very busy. Your mail was send to the wrong list... On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, José Suárez wrote: Hi to everybody. I've been quite excited about the OpenMoko development and release schedule. I'm pretty sure I would like to buy one Neo1973 when they were available and became usable. I'm not a developer The mailinglist openmoko-devel is only about programming. Your kind offer to support openmoko should be send to the openmoko-community mailinglist. I was so free to answer your mail on this other list. When you haven't subscibed it yet, please subscribe openmoko-community, now. Because the people are very busy, some better informations are missing - e.g. an automaticaly welcome message that explains the use of the list a little better this just have to wait until the first Neo1973 are ready ;) and don't know how to code, but I would like to contribute to the OpenMoko project to make it great. Given that the only way I think I could help at the moment is by translating some of the UI/GUI messages (later when the phone is out I would like to test the apps and report bugs) I want to know if there is any need for translators. If so, I would like to volunteer for the translation of whatever messages into Spanish. Translation of GUI, of help/man pages and other documentations is IMHO very important to make projects more populare. Even Debian and Ubuntu lakes whith translations and due this it has unused popularity potential. Greetings, rob PS: Just an example for english only sides, see an the pages about Debian/Ubuntu installer for Windows32: http://www.goodbye-microsoft.com/ https://wiki.ubuntu.com/install.exe ;) Thanks for the effort and time you guys are putting into OpenMoko's development. It will surely rock! ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea: second SIM card support
Salve Myk! Welcome to openmoko community :) On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, Myk Melez wrote: I live in the US but regularly travel to Hungary, and I have a second SIM card for use abroad. I know it's too late for v1, but for future versions of the phone, I'd find it useful for the phone to support a second SIM card. As longer we are active on this list as more difficult will it be for new subscriber to do not write an idea that wasn't already written on this list. About second SIM card we have several threads: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000112.html (we had some more - take a look at the archive) So it would be good when we add some more already discussed ideas to the wiki to make it new subscriber a little more easy. There a few different ways it could do this. Here are some options, in order from best/hardest to still-useful/easiest: Neo v1 will not have a slot for 2 sims, but probably you will be able to use a two sim adapter with the Neo1973 ... let us see... But I have do add an idea - when a Neo v1 or v2 support 2 ore more sims - how to get the right incomming call Some GSM provider offers a multicard (other names possible) http://shop2.o2online.de/nw/produkte/handys/services/multicard/index.html The same mobil number will be switched to several SIM cards - having a multicard in an old mobile with RS232, connected to a server... Imagine you use two sims in the same country like A=business, B=privat and you check your incomming SMS with B, that could your skript inform your Neo1973 that for A is an incomming call and the Neo will swith to A. Signalisation via GPRS would be perfect - but what when you are calling with friends during office time? Than I hope the v1 (or v2) of the Neo will have a GSM chip with class A GPRS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPRS Class A allows to use GSM phone calls and GPRS simultanious That we have already written about a second SIM is only speaking that this would be realy a good idea. So I'm quite shure, that not every idea is found and there is much more we can do with OpenMoko Neo1973, even with the version 1. Greetings rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Q: desktop software?
Salve Bryce! On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, Bryce Leo wrote: I would like to use FreeNX to use the Neo1973 from a Workstation, and to have video projctor presentation live from a Neo1973. That sounds like a fantastic idea. It should be pretty simple to get something like FreeNX up and running on the device. Then a full emulation to use the full Neo1973 power (beside the touchscreen) on a workstation as well. Other than the touchscreen what sort of power are you referring to? Primary the touchscreen and that curser and the Neo GUI should make visibel that a virtual finger has touched a button so that it is more intuitive to understand what happens. Than screenrecordings with visuable virtual fingers and spoken comments would be nice, so that beside of live presentations, people could get impression how the Neo and it's software is used. I'm probably thinking to literally as desktops are far more powerful than a handheld. Routing of Sound would be a task as well - that the sound of the Neo will transmitted with FreeNX to the workstation which is connected to the fix-room-installed PA (room sound system). So when the Neo1973 would get lost, lay at home/in the car only access to any (trustworthy) workstation would be ok to use the Neo1973. Remember for as trivial as that may be to set up for slightly more technical folks, imagine if a very non technical person (i'm thinking of my mother right now) were to have to buy a new computer and found herself locked out of her phone. Now it's simple to say that they should read the manual(s) that come with the device, however we do know that no one reads them and everyone loses them. The documentation of OpenMoko/Neo1973 should be on the Neo itself. I will say that I would love love love to see that as an option! Then do I think that client/server solution would become more important then device/desktop software one, even for normal user. I think that the client/server solution is far more powerful and flexible, however the simplicity of Hotsync the one touch backup of your palm device is what made it so popular in the first place. I can take my Treo 650 home every day, connect a cord, press one button, and It's connected, now that's convience. I feel that that's the sort of conveince and simplicty that we should shoot for. One touch backkup is a fantastic convience and a big +1 when it comes to deciding on a phone. This is a possible way but think about this - installing new software you know apt-cache search IRC, apt-cache show epic3, apt-get install epic3 so when there is a graphical solution that the very non technical person could choose directly on the device what he whants to installl... - back up because the Neo1973 has a USB host and device mode, it would be possible that the usr can define a virtual USB memory device. a Backup software on the Neo could behave like this: Backup Welcome to your OpenMoko Backup tool. Your Backup will create 54 MB big file, which you could copy from the Neo1973 to your PC when you connect them with your No1973 via [USB] [Bluetooth] [GPRS] please select. The file will be generated and you can copy from any other maschine. The Neo1973 will reconginice that you have copied the backup-file complete. The same for storing the backup back... start the Restore tool and copy back your backupfile. Ah you mean there are users can't work with a shell or a filemanager? A small application for copy c:\OpenMoko\Backup-RoberMichel-070129-15.bz2 back to the USB memory device with the name OpenMoko-RobertMichel? A small Program that creates a Internet Routing for the Neo, when it is connected to the PC? I would like to see solutions as much as possible independent of the Workstation systems and installation from the Neo1973 (maybe with autorun from USB-Stick) then from a CD-ROM. And to do this on a secure way, that you can backup/sycronice in an internet cafe with your server, your NSLU2 at home without any risks and any problems due the restiction of normal Internet Cafes. I think from smart client/server solutions will profit even non technical persons. Greetings rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Silent mode timeout
Salve Ben! Good idea ;) On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, Ben Burdette wrote: A simple feature that I'd like to see is a silent mode timeout. What always happens with my current phone is I set it to silent mode because I'm in a movie or a meeting, and then later I forget to turn the ringer back on. This leads to a lot of missed calls. You could have a default timeout for simply holding down the 'volume down' button (if there is one on this phone), and this default would initially be 'no timeout'. When you enter silent mode, the GUI could display this current timeout and allow you to adjust it then. A checkbox would allow you to make this the new default timeout. But beside of time - localisation would be also working - Leave this place +/- 50-100m and the phone will ring again. Don't ring here, now-modus But GPS system could have errors, so I would like to see an GPS controll network to warn OpenMoko/Neo1973 users when GPS is not working proper way - ok not ALARM! BEEEP ALARM! BEEEP ALARM!..non proper GPS could activate unforseen non-silent modus and maybe will trouble you ALARM! BP ALARM!... ;) So the time methode would be a more trustable one ;) Greetings rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
transparent effect to overlay two calender Re: idea: World Clock
Salve Mary,*! Nice idea :) On Mon, 29 Jan 2007, Mary Stovel wrote: The pictures of the Neo show a clock. Will this be a world clock? I would like that the normal calendar shows time of daylight - brigher background during the local day - darker background during the nigth (maybe including the influence of the moon of the nigth darkness..) gag dark background during solar eclipse :)) Some Linux desktops does have transparent windows, another idea would be charing calender informtion with partner/friends - to see when the best time would be to call them, or to arrange a date having the calender of the partner in the background. Now when the partner's calender has dark background I see when at his localisation the sun will go up/down so it wouln't be so important to compare the numbers of hours to call at the right time - the overlaping calender will make it more intuitive. Imagine a team/group of 7 people will have a (virtual) meeting and they want to find the best date for everybody - instead of big anoying discussion what is with Monday... transmitt the free times via Bluetooth or GPRS (encrypted) to the others and everybody can see his calender in front and the other layers with free times from the team members so it will be visibil (maybe inverted=show only the time when a person haven't time) for everybody when the best date would be and when there is a good date where e.g. only on person haven't time, the 6 can ask him directly if he can move his date What do you think? Will it possible to use transperent effects to have several layers on the screen? Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Hint for all webmail-user Re: Hint for gmail-users: How to mute a conversation
Salve Sencer,*! First I thought your tipp would be to avoid 100 lines of quote by using a webmailer To avoid that non gmail-users thing that mailing with gmail is more comfortable/better than with a normal emailclient my tipp: On Sun, 28 Jan 2007, Sencer wrote: Hello fellow openmoko users, For all gmail-users there is an easy way to deal with the threads that just won't die. Well when you use a normal (good) MUA (Mail user agent) it will thread your mails. When you have a filter, that all mails from this mailinglist came into jut one openmoko-community mailinglist it feels not like mail- flood anymore. So with such a - separate mailbox - MUA (mail client) that organize mail as threads I've no problem with thread that just won't die. And when you want to access the mails of this list flexible - I use the non-GUI MUA mutt, together with GNU-Tool screen and ssh on a virtual server I rent for 3 Euro/month (1GB space, 1 Domain, unlimited traffic) Feel free to ask me in PM (private mail) about this - I dislike spreading popularity of big companies services like skype, hotmail/gmail (doing money with analysing mails and personal networks) Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Hint for all webmail-user Re: Hint for gmail-users: How to mute a conversation
Salve Declan! Declan Naughton schrieb am Sonntag, den 28. Januar 2007 um 13:59h: You can also unsubscribe from the list @ https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community :) Other lists: https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/ Will this help to let the community grow? I don't know if webmailer offer threading the mails - I just concerned that many mails without the right tool, an email client with threading function, will bother the users. As more people will join this list, as more mails will be posted. Looking on an debian-user, asterisk or kernel mailinglist people (used to get 5 mails a day) will be shooked when they get a mail flood - without seeing the overview who is answering whom. So the tip of unsubscribing is not the best one to let the community grown. For somebody who don't know about to use mailfilter to get the mails automaticaly in the right mailbox, a seperate mail account like [EMAIL PROTECTED] helps. This could be also a freemailer. But viewing the mails without threading could be a big mess... so I have only the experiances with mutt and give this advice - but there are other mailclients which support threading and maybe also webmailer which do this. Sencers hint is IMHO usefull - don't take it personal that not everyone is interested in every thread. IMHO charing some skills will help that also people not experinaced with big mailinglist stay on this list ;) Also I would appreciate that people would ask on this mailinglist for help like I'm using Thunderbird for reading this mail, but this mailflood is mixing with my privat mails - what can I do? instead of unsubscribe. Having people on this list, and having as early user of OpenMoko/Neo1973 without Linux Admin skills are important - we can profit from their feedback to make OpenMoko/Neo1973 mass market ready - so in return we should let them profit by beeing here e.g. by learning how to mange mails more efficent. When they unsubscribe we would be a big loss. http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/002401.html Greetings rob PS: Don't get me wrong with my tip of a vserver... I think client server solutions will play an important role with OpenMoko/Neo1973, also how to select and filter information and mails to do not spend to much money on expensive GSM/GPRS communication. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Q: desktop software?
Salve Oleg! On Sat, 27 Jan 2007, Oleg L. Sverdlov wrote: What software is planned on desktop side? If any. I would like to use FreeNX to use the Neo1973 from a Workstation, and to have video projctor presentation live from a Neo1973. Then a full emulation to use the full Neo1973 power (beside the touchscreen) on a workstation as well. Very cool would be an emulation via web with java, (maybe with FreeNX again) without any local installation. (in this case with an own server running the emulation) So when the Neo1973 would get lost, lay at home/in the car only access to any (trustworthy) workstation would be ok to use the Neo1973. Mabye emulation including doing calls via Voip Then do I think that client/server solution would become more important then device/desktop software one, even for normal user. So before starting a seperate desktop software, my quetion is, what more then standard desktop software would be thinkable? Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
lightwight good XHTML webbrowser? Re: wap browser? any better one than wApua?
Salve Jose! Jose Manrique Lopez de la Fuente schrieb am Samstag, den 27. Januar 2007 um 03:43h: WAP 2.0 supports XHTML-Basic and XHTML-Mobile Profile, so use a XHTML browser instead... Old WML is dead! Hmm, e.G. the German Railway http://wap.bahn.de is still using wml 1.0 so what will help me an XHTML browser to use this wappage? XHTML browser wouldn't help - it would be nice that OpenMoko helps to use even Old (dead) WML. Ok the railway have also page with XHTML as well: http://mobile.bahn.de/ With apt-cache search I have only found Amaya this is a XHTML webbrowser and editor - needs several libs and 21,6 MB additional space... And I haven't found the config to disable editing pages, and maby because of WYSIWYG it has some graphicaly errors... And which XHTML browser is lightwight and good to use with OpenMoko/Neo1973? When I look into the source - I would like to see a client/server splitted XHTML browser that on a server runs the backand and only the frontend on the Neo. - pictures and same pages could be cached on the Neo - the transmission beween back-front end compressed - and long pages would be transmitted in parts (on demand) Some average using profile of XHTML e.G. for Germany - bahn.de (railway) - tagesschau.de (news) could fill the cache automaticaly when having a cheap/free internet connection Ah and saving pages as an unvariable document, the chance to beam (via Bluetooth) and printing would be something that not every phones support. At last - train/news/weather informations - our Neo1973 could become a wireless mailbox for other users, where they could download the train/news/weather informations that I had downloaded. Maybe this could create trouble with lawers, let us call this proxy and let us select some pages to publish with our proxy. So a smart XHTML editor would become interesting, as well, e.G. for changing the front page or adding some additional informations. The Bluetooth devicename could have up to 255 chars? OpenMailbox-with-News-Wether-information-free-to-login Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Position of u-SD slot?
Salve Michael! On Sat, 27 Jan 2007, Michael Dickens wrote: I'm interested in making use of the u-SD slot with a card much like the Spectec microSDIO WiFi 11g Card, but one developed in house for more general wireless networking. I assume that the u-SD slot is accessed via the back side of the device, but does anyone know if it will be behind the battery or on the side of it? Sorry, it will be behind the battery, so an USB hub with battery power and an USB WiFi Adapter will be an alternative Of course WiFi is interesting, but I see it as advantage to concentrate on Bluetooth solutions first. Bluetooth with a free hackable phone will have general wireless networking potential as well ;) Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Combine a SoC and memory on a SD card or Usb device...Re: Possibilities for commercial software?
Salve Marcin! On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote: Dnia pi?tek, 26 stycznia 2007 13:55, Robert Michel napisa?: For real paranoid sellers: Build a chip with memory and an embedded system on a microSD card or mini usb device and sell this. Use an unique encryption for every embdded system so that even hacking out the program from the embedded memory wouldn't run. If part of application will run on this external device then it will be quite good protection. I thought to let the important part or even the full application running on the external device. Such an external SoC could also boost up the power of the device, e.g. when you want to have a game or more multimedia power... Beside the Network/Webbrowser idea, it could be also FreeNX. So when it is not about protection of software, take a NSLU2, a laptop or Playstation3 (5kg) with you, plug it with 12/230V connect it with Bluetooth/USB to your Neo and use your OpenMoko/Neo1973 as terminal with FreeNX http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NX_technology *g* rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Will the OSDL/MLI have a yearly report as well? Re: LiMo foundation
Salve David! On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, David Schlesinger wrote: ACCESS is a participating member of both OSDL's Mobile Linux Initiative and of the Linux Phone Standards Forum--I'm acting chair of the MLI Steering Committee and vice-chair of LiPS' Architectural Working Group--and we've contributed to the requirements documents, API specifications, etc. for both those groups. I found this today and that the OSDL/DTL (Desktop working goup) has published it's yearly report and came to the statement that 2006 has been the year of the linux desktop: http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT3453502692.html Linux Organisation membership and organisation politics is not my business, but from the linux-user point of view it is a little confusing that OpenMoko/Neo1973 isn't mentioned here: http://old.linux-foundation.org/lab_activities/mobile_linux/mli Maybe it is not the right time to ask/talk about this, but I think that OSDL is doing good work for promoting Linux and that linking and cooperation would be a bennefit for both OSDL/MLI and OpenMoko... Or let it me say in that way, it would be nice to read about OpenMoko/Neo1973 in a yearly report of OSDL/MLI, at last in the report about year 2007. So I don't think it's accurate to paint those as four different, separate and unrelated parallel efforts. It's our plan of record that the ACCESS Linux Platform will converge with both MLI guidelines and requirements and the set of LiPS-specified applications APIs. Can you, or Sean, when it doesn't take to much time, say something about OpenMoko and OSDL/MLI? Greetings, rob PS: IMHO LiMo looks like powered by lawers and I think that this foundation is not a cooperation by their hearts - so we will have several advantages/chances to have a better, more efficent cooperation. ;) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Some thoughts about the real importanted dates for OpenMoko/Neo1973 3GSM World 2007 Barcelona this year ...Re: Developers phone also fit for early adopters?
Salve Gervais! On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Gervais Mulongoy wrote: I have to admit that I kind of agree with Marcus, especially in terms of leveraging the free marketing that will happen from an early release. But please not with a buggy hardware... But in order to do this properly, we need to better organize the OpenMoko support infrastructure. Support will be required for: * Hardware issues * Core software applications * Software stack issues Marcus, how do you propose this will be done? I think we need to first leverage the community to create a support infrastructure with at least the following minimum requirements: * a Bug/Feature tracking system per component of the software stack to track development/progress. * a Wiki which we can use to create the HOWTOs, FAQs, and other guides which we can publish in PDF (or whatever) as manuals etc. Ahh haven't your read Sean mails? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001586.html 2007-02-11 Phase 0: Developer Preview We will give away free phones to selected members of the developer community. At this point, the full source code to the OpenMoko Linux Distribution will become publicly available. We are committed to cooperating with the community in the interest of making the official developer launch a smooth experience. In the last month we've seen a huge increase of interest in OpenMoko. To be perfectly honest, we're doing this give away as a system of checks and balances. We want to get the framework right, the first time around. Also, at this time, the following community dedicated websites will be available: * http://openmoko.org/ -- for the actual development community * http://wiki.openmoko.org/ -- for an official wiki of the project * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/ -- for bug tracking * http://lists.openmoko.org/ -- for public mailing lists * http://planet.openmoko.org/ -- for an aggregated feed * http://projects.openmoko.org/ -- for user-contributed projects What do you think about that? Is it realy so hart to spend patients for 2-3 weeks? hu? Now to Marcus answer: On 1/25/07, Marcus Bauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2007-01-26 at 03:42 +0100, Robert Michel wrote: I don't think that people buy a new phone to going on holiday with the new phone - AFAIK the most phones are sold November-January. People buy phones all year round. And those that do so before their holidays will come back and make perfect mouth-to-mouth propaganda. And when November comes the others will base their buying decision on exactly that. It is perfect leverage at zero cost that you miss out. I bet that in the christmas season 2008 (not this year) you will have plenty of phones with GPS and VGA screens. And plenty of big companies throwing big marketing dollars at it. But you don't want to start selling Neo1973s to normal users with just only a dialer? [EMAIL PROTECTED] dial -now +492419968183 After the flame ware GNU Linux I fear the next flame on this list. Marcus your sound was absolutly childish, ego-based and unproductive. Not at all. The best thing that could happen is a success of OpenMoko and FIC. Waiting with the phone until after the summer season is a huge loss in free marketing. Just keep my mail and re-read it in two years. Hey guy! I was talking about your sound! And I'm quite shure that I would say again in 2 years, that it was absolutly respectless. On the long term for nobody of us is it important to start in January, or March That's not true. It is a waste of first mover advantage. Once Google comes out with a phone (unless they buy from FIC and use OpenMoko) the market gets really tight. Isn't the market already really tight and who is saying that Google will bring a OpenSource mobile? I'm absolutly shure that the team would prefer to ship the first phones directly in November, instead of February or March... And can you consider that by not beeing Google or Apple it isn't so easy to start selling mass of devices? I have mentioned the GSM World in Barcelona - even when OpenMoko/FIC is there not directly with an on stand, I think someone will goe there and it will be important that he could show a running device. Can you consider that this is more important than shipping the first devices to the developer now or in two weeks? Are you reading http://planet.openmoko.org/? Have you seen 2007-01-24 three days ago, that the stereo speaker was used the first time: http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/01/24#20070124-omoko_update So please spend respect and patient for 2-3 weeks and do not try to be more worse than economic management of normal companies stressing the developer to bring 90% finished trash to the market. Will you make Sean sorrow to start this mailinglist in November instead of February 2007? And from a marketing view, think about Rods statement: http://lists.openmoko.org
Unified message menue? pictures? Re: CallWave
Salve Jesse! On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Jesse Ross wrote: There was some mention on this list a while ago about an iPhone-style Visual Voicemail system. I wouldn't mention apple as refference for this idea - apple like to claim patents for solutions and like to sue... The following service could be a really good replacement, if your carrier supports it: Discovered via: http://www.therawfeed.com/2007/01/why-wait-for-iphone-visual-voicemail.html Looks like a Email inbox - so no need to name it I-hone-sytle... Some ongoing ideas -what about picutes with names? -what about having a SMS/Email/Voicemail=Unified message overview? -what about filter so seperate what's most important - instead of lifo (last in, first out) or fifo -voice meneu for the voice mailbox that the caller could leave an importance level and number of hours untill this messige have to be heard - different pictures or freames around the picture for the importance of the calls - from neo to neo some information could be transmitted during call, like relaxed, stressed, emergency, very sad/happy - sound analysing if the caller sounds normal or stressed... - picture of the wave form to separate the soundfiles better - voice recognition - reading is quicker than listen, it could be done externaly with commercial voice regongnition software - simple voice recognition could help to separate soundfiles better -automaticaly merge messages from the same caller when playing back -on/of switchable voice anouncment of time/date/person before playing back - quick play 1,5 speed - skipping messages and move it into the folder not so important yet marked as new... Just 3 minutes brainstorm what else would be nice with voicmail system, much much ore then just iphone... What more? :))) Don't get me wrong, I like your mail with this link, it is focusing on the core function of the phone: calling / call management ;) Cheers, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Glossary Re: Communications (was Re: Developers phone also fit for early adopters?)
Salve Richi! Good point! On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Richi Plana wrote: And with that, let me state that I think it important to use Figures of Speech as little as possible in these mailing list. For one thing, many of the members of these lists don't have English as their primary language (I know I'm one of those). Second, with so many people reading, it just increases the chances of miscommunication. To add: not usal abbreviations (write in bracket what it is standing for) E.g. when I had written FPGA (Fine Pitch BGA) it would have been clear that I meant FBGA the packed layout and not Field Programmable Gate Array GSM, GPRS, and GPS does have also abbreviations that would be unknows for most of us - a abbreviations glossary would help, just started http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Glossary increments are wellcome :) Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: CallWave
Salve Peter! On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Peter A Trotter wrote: It's clear the technology is available to make this possible without any crude hacks. We need to make friends with the carriers in so many ways to make this project fly. Why? The Neo1973 could become the voice mailbox in most of the cases. In case of an area of no GSM service a second SIM at home or an asterisk call forwarding could help that one of your devices will catch the voicmail. So to have a friendly carrier would be nice, but much of solutions would be possible even without their support. Just another idea for the voicemailbox - the system could anounce (your friends) that you hasn't heard the last message and it allowed to replace it with a new message. Hello, Peter, her is the mailbox of Robert. I haven't heard your last voice message, press 1 when you want to replace this message, or just talk after the beep when you want to add more. beep Imagine you are abroad on a conference and you are in a hurry and your friends leve a many massages (5 minutes) and the last one is sorry, forget it, John hasn't time - we will meet us regulary in two weeks - bye.. Greetings rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Why not switching automaticaly? Re: Gesture command
Salve Foucault! On Thu, 25 Jan 2007, Foucault de Bonneval wrote: I was thinking of BT profiles and of people who constantly move form home to car to office to client ... So changing BT profile must be easier that calling a number or accessing diary, phonebook. matter of personal priorities... So what do you think about having gesture recognition running to call events such as : - unlock and lock screen (move up and down) - call BT home profile (one up one right) - call BT car profile (one up one left) The PalmPilot had several hacks that allows the user to define actions like this to special key strokes - IMHO should the user be able to define what must be easier than other,,, Hmm why not switching automaticaly by using Bluetooth scans and GPS localisation? E.g. arriving home and switching of the car will swith your Bluetooth profile from car to home automaticaly. And leaving home will start scanning if your car is on. You see, OpenMoko/Neo1973 will give us much freedom for our phone. :))) Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: intelligent (system-wide) profile switching. gestures and events (Was: Re: Why not switching automaticaly? Re: Gesture command)
Salve Declan! Maybe is a general system-wide profile switching not intelligent enough? Of course it will be usefull but maybe there will be more possible. Declan Naughton schrieb am Donnerstag, den 25. Januar 2007 um 20:58h: Reading this, a potentially handy feature hit me, so I'm letting it out. We should (and we probably will/do.. my nokia 6310 or whatever it is does, like pretty much all nokias, and all phones) support multiple, Just a system-wide profile is working, but not so flexible... People you will have a date with in the next our could automaticaly become a higher importance The Screen has 480x640 pixel - good enough for how many pictures with names? So there is no need to stay on the low level of a nokia 6310. Also, events should be triggerable between/at specific times, and when the GPS system notices you've entered/are in a certain area... a 250m radius around my school, say, where I'd like to phone to stay on silent. Consider the chance of a voice menue and answering machine - when you select that your are busy your selection or your calendar can be used for a smart voice meneu Hello this is Declan, I'm busy - leave a message with informations and questions and will care about this in the next 2 hours - only if it can't wait, press 2. So there will be no binare black/white solution, more will be possible So we will play with new posibilities: - GPS - VGA coulored touchscreen - open source - big creative community - no filter of a marketing department - no filter of network provider Also the list of missed calls Rob 104 times 20:58h damm how was this counter this afternoon, 103 or 94? Did he called now one or 10 times? And much more on normal phones is unsmart. We will have much fun and I'm convinced that looking on existing phones will not give us so much creativity like looking on what will be possible withe OpenMoko/Neo1973 and what did I hate most, what did I wish... what will be smart And sharing our ideas - reading the ideas and seeing/using the solution from others will create new ideas it will outperform existing phone solutions :)) asterisk.org will be a good tool to play on the Neo1973 with new ideas how to manage calls We will have much fun, for shure! ;) Cheers, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Please no spreading flame wars about licence and free software in every thread!
Salve Dave and all others who loves to discuss about eggs from an unborn bird! I hope that this thread will not blow up like the GNU/Linux discussion, by people which hasn't consider that Harald Welte is behind OpenMoko nor Seans presentation in Amsterdam that making money with OpenMoko/Neo1973 will be possible. I'm active on this list since the beginning, as a student very interested in this project with absolutly trust in Sean and his team that it will be a very good and open project. My intention with my mails on this list was starting this mailinglist becomming active and motivate people to join - to share their ideas. To find together examples that shows how operfull OpenMoko/Neo1973 could be when mobil computer, GSM/GPRS, (indoor)GPS, GNU/Linux and good and creative people come to gether. Since last Sunday I'm disappointed about this mailinglist - I never thought that the GNU Linux thread would grow to such a flame war and including starting become personal. Huuu - hey did you forget that: - this project is about creating something new? - And that this phone is around communications power based on open software? - That is is about cooperation? So this means: - respect for the others, - patience, e.g. untill this project starts for the public - and the willingness to join compromises. Dave Crossland schrieb am Donnerstag, den 25. Januar 2007 um 22:56h: On 25/01/07, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was thinking, if the OpenMoko phone had an easy way for people to add applications like the Widgets, the average user would like it. ( I would be willing to pay the developer after a trial). I guess the most software will be free... Many free software projects accept donations, and if you are willing to pay the developers after enjoying their software, I feel it is important to donate a little. I've not this feeling about money. Free software is about 'without restrictions' not 'without paying,' like free speech instead of free beer :-) Please do not start here a general discussion here - when you will not strengthen my feeling that some people start writing on this list with the primary interest to harm OpenMoko/Neo1973. :((( You are right, I wanted to write that I expect that the most core software will be available without paying like openwrt or debian, this is something that I want to stress because I have the feeling that some people started to be interested in OpenMoko/Neo1973 without having using GNU/Linux, yet. And of course IMHO could a Neo1973 coustomer expect that the core software will be free for him and get updates, especialy security updates. ;) So my answer was just for those is unclear what we mean when talking about apt-get install software that e.g. Debian is a sytem/distribution with 15.000 precompiled packages, getting all from one source - I choose between 15.000 programs, can get them, install and use them without the need to pay 1 cent! Totaly leagal - and I get a more secure system, like with most of commercial software - much more secure then normal M$+personalfirewalls+viruscans+shareware sytems. Why do you started a new flame war here and adding the mail adress of the original poster Marry again in the header? Do you know what I thought as I wrote: It seems that we haven't scare you away with all our ideas maybe next version... It seems that we haven't scare you away with this unsake GNU Linux thread! BTW please take a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harald_Welte When you claim that everybody who is using free software is bind in honour to donate (money) to the developers, that are you fare away from the common sence of GNU/Linux. You can't publish your software under a free licence and than yammer that the users have the honour to donate. AFAIK will OpenMoko not become a shareware portal, where the users get software with the premission to test it for a while and than to have to pay the developers. When the user like the OpenMoko software instead of spending money telling others about it, helping others to start with OpenMoko, writing (positive) about OpenMoko, helping with writing the documentation could be more productive/better And short, when you do not see the sence to spend time without paiment hacking and development should be fun, and about learning new skills. Also consider, as more populare OpenMoko/Neo1973 will be, as more knowledge and reputation you have with OpenMoko as developer, as more likly is that you can get a well paid job like frome a agency which likes to have 10.000 devices with a special software solution. GNU/Linux adult and since years ready that commerial and non-commerial projects are thrive and prosper parallel and in cooperation and there are realy many strategies how a cooperation of non-commerial community and a commercial side will looks like. I do 100% trust Sean, Harald and the others that they find a strategie that is fair and fruitfull for FIC
Some thoughts about the real importanted dates for OpenMoko/Neo1973 3GSM World 2007 Barcelona this year ...Re: Developers phone also fit for early adopters?
Salve Marcus,*! On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Marcus Bauer wrote: On Fri, 2007-01-26 at 01:53 +0100, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Marcus, please watch your tone on this mailing list. It shall be. It? Respect is the absolute basic for communication and cooperation. The fact that I didn't answer to that mail doesn't mean I didn't read it. Should I now say you obviously didn't follow your own annoucements and didn't read the topic you set on IRC because you said the phone would come out in January? But the point is not to get into a fight with you. GPS on a phone is still a unique selling point, as is the vga screen. People will be adore to have GPS in summer season while travelling. Publishing it in September is missing out a whole year. I don't think that people buy a new phone to going on holyday with the new phone - AFAIK the most phones are sold November-Januar. The competitors wont sleep and there will be at least 20 phones with a vga screen and GPS next year. It's not just the hardware wich count. So it could be an advantage when thousands of people buy a Neo1973 in Juni and traval with it into their hollyday. It is the most perfect opportunity for Linux (call it GNU or not) to be the market leader. Stop talking about releasing early, just do it. All that is needed is a dialing application. Did you took a deeper look to the roadmap: 2007-02-11 Phase 0: Developer Preview Why this date? My guess: 12-14.February: http://3gsmworldcongress.com/ the most important date of the year for GSM communication. So even when 10 devices on the 2007-02-11 would be ready and running, it would be great. But just only with dialing application you would get laughter in Barcenlona. Probably the anouncment that *only* on 11. February the devices will give to some developers for free has boosted I will have some of the first on this list. On the other hand I'm shure that Barcelona is a very important date, so in the next week, we, the starting community is not (yet) so important, like some good talks in Barcelona. So even when we have a close contact to Sean, Harald, and even when there is no big marketing department or network provider dictating when the device has to be ready, I think all of this guys are under a high stress to have a smart running device ready untill 007-02-11 I head in mind that they wanted to have 100 preproduced devices, http://planet.openmoko.org/ is saying about 50. Small number production are quite expensive. After the flame ware GNU Linux I fear the next flame on this list. Marcus your sound was absolutly childish, ego-based and unproductive. We should support the core developer team now with patience. They need their full energie to bring this baby to the world so they should get our full support with _patience_ and no stress, nagging or even abuse like your mail! On the long term for nobody of us is it important to start in January, or March - let us trust into Sean and his team to do the right in general, especialy when to ship the first devices. I was the first one who became active on this list, but I wouldn't worry if I would have to wait longer then others, IMHO you should share my point/approach as well. It would be a pitty when Linux GNU/Linux flamewares (at the most wrong time) wrangling who's getting the first and who's getting one for free would poisioning the atmosphere here on this list. That would kill creativity, motivation and the enthusiasm to share and cooperate. So please everybody here on this list, while waiting for your device, could you behave in a way that you are supporting the core team, instead of dispossess them/their energie? Thank you! rob Marcus ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
sorry s/FPGA/BGA/g Re: Some thoughts: 1GB flash hack possible? Or why not shipping 1GB directly?
Salve Justyn! Justyn Butler schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 00:47h: Firstly apologies if I've misunderstood what you're saying. :) When it' my failing... But I think it is: can I use the flash chip from inside a USB memory stick to upgrade the neo1973 flash? yes Once I get my hands on one of these babies the first thing I'm going to be doing is taking it to pieces, and I can pretty much guarantee once we see the flash chip we'll be able to find a compatible replacement. But surface mount soldering/desoldering is a sensitive process and takes practice, and you do not want to be practicing on your $350 phone. oh, I will :) I many years ago I upgraded my Palm Pilot to 8MB and did some other practice - so soldering flash will be not easy, but not inpossible. It's possible to train with the usb flash device. So my answer to your question is: perhaps not from your USB memory stick, but you will be able to upgrade the flash chip if you've a little experience with surface mount hacking. But I have a more important question: why do you want to do this? Why hacking? Because it is possible and it is fun :)) I don't see the 64MB as at all limiting when there's a microsd slot to hand, and 4GB microsd cards almost available to buy. Right, me too. But Seans statment that we shouldn't do expect to much transfer speed from/to microSD gives anouther reason than just for fun. And in every town is some specialist which will be able to solder you this flash perfectly - in case for people with no experiances, to much respect or in case that they overestimate their skills and got into trouble while soldering - as long you do not swith on the power, nothing (beside of the warranty) is lost. But the important point in which model/Package Type of the flash will be used for the Neo1973 - and I speculated that it will be SLC(Small Block) and maybe even FBGA. And I guess that USB flash memory devices did not use SLC(Small Block) - or maybe this will be in *very* small devices ;) Lastly, what is meant by the comment about FPGAs? I kind of got the impression that you're suggesting the main SoC is replaced with an FPGA, no, mean FBGA instead of FPGA - because there is also the name FPBGA it is a little bit confusing for me, when I didn't use this terms often. I should use BGA (Ball Grid Array) and should avoid using abbrevations. So I know that there are some (private) hardware hackers working even with BGAs - but when the flash is soldered as BGA it is unpossible for most of us. Sorry for the confusion, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
short answer - other feedback is wellcome Re: g quastions
Salve Eugene! I'm just a student and normal member on this mailinglist, so I don't know more than it was written on this list since November. On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Eugene Kozlov wrote: Hello Can somebody explain What is about hardware licensing? Also open source? (shared pcb schematics, etc.) AFAIK is the hardware no open source. But the ICs are today so high integrated, that the pcb layout isn't the big effort compared with mobil phone design 10 years ago. If there is plans to develop more cheap one to make possibility spread this in africa, latin america, china, eastern europe. Sean and other OpenMoko developer wrote it several time, that the OpenMoko team and FIC would like to see OpenMoko running on other devices, as well. OpenMoko has been presentated as long term strategie and so the Neo1973 will be just the first stepp. Ongoing integration of ICs will make the hardware for mobils more and more smaller and cheaper. For me for example mostly interesting simple cell phone with p2p voice encryption and i no need other like multimedia features. Right, I think most of us are not only thinking about multimedia smartphones for the long term but to start a project, to jump into an old market just cheaper wouldn't work and the Neo1973 will have much power to attrac to developer, using it as smart phone = mobil computer +OpenOS(GNU/Linux) +SDK +GSM/GPRS +AGPS The Neo1973 has the power to run the PBX asterisk directly on the phone, so developing concepts of dail management (white/black lists), voice menues, answering maschine... is more easyer when the device has power like the Neo1973. Based on the Neo1973 experiances IMHO it will be possible to reduce OpenMoko for cheaper, less powerfull phones. And if there is somebody to explain on voice encryption module: architecture of processing of a voice stream, existing solution and thinks... may be some links or datasheets Does voice encryption possible on openmoko? (i have read previous posts and dont really understand this) Ok I will try it - in short: All GSM-crypto-phones (on the market yet) and hacks are using the GSM data call (or will use GPRS/UMTS data connections). There is no way (or no good way) encrypt connections based on GSM voice calls. This is because you can't do a secure encrypte before an lossy-based audio encoder like MP3,speex or GSM AFAIK: The mic is analog conected to the audio IC. The audio IC is (seriell) controlled by the SoC. The audio IC is analog connected to the GSM chip. So with the audio IC you could controll the audio level and could mix it with additional sound - e.g. you can realise an voice menue on the Neo1973 The GSM chip will do the GSM audio encryption and all GSM communication. The GSM chip is (seriell( controlled by the SoC. You can't do voice encryption with your own allgorithm with GSM phone calls (Beside every GSM connection has it own GSM encryption). So you need a Data connection like GPRS or using data calls with 9600 Baud. It isn't shure jet, if the Neo1973 will support this data calls, but it is very likly. Also I don't know if all GSM provider has the same tariffs for GSM data calls like for GSM voice calls. Ok, imagine the Neo1973 would support GSM data calls that we will have a 9600 kBit/s connection and we could run an audio codec on the SoC like GSM or speex and shoose any encryption allgorithm that we do like and what takes not to much CPU power. The phone that you call must support this encrytion as well, or it could be connected to a computer. I'll going to connect my phone I'm using now to the NSLU2 via RS232, so I can do encrytped phone calls from home to my Neo. From the NSLU2 I have a VPN to my VoIP ATA of my girl frind. She will call me via VoIP (true the VPN tunnel) and the NSLU2 will make an encrypted phone call to my Neo. I hope she and other will use OpenMoko, too, in the near future. And In short - all GSM-crypto-phones and hacks are using the GSM data call. Does voice encryption possible on openmoko? (i have read previous posts and dont really understand this) I think it will be possible but this means it has to be developed and not included in the first shipping ;) Cheers rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
hack idea: USB flash memory drive modification- +capacitor(s) +small usb jack
Salve, the Neo1973 has an unpowered small size USB port. So for beening on the road, it could be nice to be able to use a USB flash drive directly. Our first idea was to hack the Neo1973 and give some power to the port. Another idea would to solder some capacitor into the memory drive, maybe with a small swith. The capacitor(s) would be charged like the Neo, via USB power. I have one cheap USB flash drive with this http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/NANDFlash/SLC_LargeBlock/8Gbit/K9K8G08U0M/ds_k9xxg08uxm_rev10.pdf Power consumption during operating max 35 mA Stand by 100 µA Maybe with a small USB connector to avoid the need for an adapter to use with the Neo1973? What do you think? Would this be a good hack? Greetings rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: hack idea: USB flash memory drive modification- +capacitor(s) +small usb jack
Salve! Robert Michel schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 13:28h: Maybe with a small USB connector to avoid the need for an adapter to use with the Neo1973? Just putting the small USB jack on the other side and the USB memory drive becomes dual use. With small or big jack. Would this cause any (important) bad reflection problems? With another switch it will become to use this small hacked device as adapter to connect a Neo1973 with a PC. (and would help when the y-connection will have reflection problems) :) rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Car kit - some pittfalls due laws possible?
Salve Andreas! Andreas Kostyrka schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 13:48h: Robert Michel writes: Since last Dezember it is forbidden for the driver to touch a PDA/mobil Ok, I think that's a case of wrong translation. It's forbidden to pickup the phone. you are quite allowed to touch the phone, explicitly: NO, please read: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/81970 There was a court decision that it is forbidded for a driver to touch a PDA during driving, when this device just have a GSM module. It isn't counting if he is touching it for phoning or other interests like MP3 player. Touching a PDA without GSM module isn't touchted by this court decision. D: Wenn das Handy im Fahrzeug fest installiert ist und zur Bedienung D: nicht in die Hand genommen werden muss, es beispielsweise mittels D: Sprachsteuerung oder Tastendruck bedient werden kann, ist eine D: Benutzung während der Fahrt weiterhin gestattet. E: If the mobile is installed in the car, and one doesn't need to take E: into the hand to use it, e.g. voice control or button control, the E: usage while driving is allowed. Right - with voice control you don't need to touch it. This court decision from Dezember changed things a little bit. Most of the Neo1973s will not be installed in the car. Headset and freespeaker need a special e-symbol certification. OTOH, the allgemeine Betriebserlaubnis is not voided automatically despite other reports from television. As these rules, especially the EMV ones (about the e-symbol) are derived from European legal guidelines, I'd expect that they'll apply the same in the whole EU. Interestingly, the complete article from ADAC does not mention anything about external antennas being needed. I know - I haven't found a source again for this - but I've found this on a page last Dezember... Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: idea for Neo 2nd generation: Accelerometer
Salve Jose! Jose Ildefonso Camargo Tolosa schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 08:44h: For exemple, we use it only if we are in a game or if the phone is ringing... If the command were shake to phone to answer, I could accidentally answer the phone while I play with my kids! Consider that it will be possible to use a special, typical movement to answer the call - not just an uncontrolled shaking. We had already several ideas for using such a sensor on the list like this thread: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000151.html But much more would be possible - so please go on with spreading ideas :) I hope v1 will have solder points to add a sensor myself or that all our nice ideas confince Sean/FIC/OpenMoko team that the v2 must have sensors ;))) And consider that many new things become possible with sensors and software - so forget a simple shaking ;) BTW: I'd like to use a accelerometer or clinometer to look and unlook the touchscreen. Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: hack idea: USB flash memory drive modification- +battery +small usb jack
Salve! ok, foget my capacitor idea... the capacitor would not have much power after some hours - and charging it every day would be Robert Michel schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 13:28h: the Neo1973 has an unpowered small size USB port. So for beening on the road, it could be nice to be able to use a USB flash drive directly. Our first idea was to hack the Neo1973 and give some power to the port. Another idea would to solder some capacitor into the memory drive, maybe with a small swith. Small battry will fit, cost 0.50-1 Euro and will give up to 70 mA (with two) Power consumption during operating max 35 mA Wait the controller and the rest will also consume some power... the Chipsbank CBM2080 will consume up to 29,5 mA with USB 1.1 so with a battery hack the USB memory device would be usabel for reading/writing for about 1h - only neccessary on the road without an USB powered swith - so that would be enought for some weeks/month What will be the advantage to use this hack instead of using another microSD card? -you can borrow this usb memory drive to somebody who have no card reader -you can do backups of important data on the road without removing the battery (and reboot your Neo) -the hack is cheap and easy rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Car kit - some pittfalls due laws possible?
Salve Andreas! Andreas Kostyrka schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 14:49h: * Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070124 14:01]: Salve Andreas! Andreas Kostyrka schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 13:48h: Robert Michel writes: Since last Dezember it is forbidden for the driver to touch a PDA/mobil Ok, I think that's a case of wrong translation. It's forbidden to pickup the phone. you are quite allowed to touch the phone, explicitly: I'm not a lawyer, but if you read the ticker, the OLG just found that a PDA with a GSM module is to be treated as a mobile. It's not if I read the ticker, I has read the ticker and gave this link to an articel from 2006-12-04 http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/81970 Now, the Adac article claims that it's ok to use a mobile, if you don't have to pick it up. E.g. buttons and voice control are named as an example for allowed interactions. The ADAC is not the law instance in Germany and when you look into the source of the page of the ADAC: !-- Publishing Time Stamp: 02.06.2006 11:17:56-- The curt dicision from December is new and extend the older interpretation of the German Handy-law - the ADAC page is outdated in this point NO, please read: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/81970 Right - with voice control you don't need to touch it. This court decision from Dezember changed things a little bit. It talks about working with a PDA. Not touching. The court law is about not touching a PDA or phone with a GSM module. Most of the Neo1973s will not be installed in the car. But the car kit will come with a cradle. :) This is not counting as durable installed in a car I know - I haven't found a source again for this - but I've found this on a page last Dezember... Technically speaking, the ADAC also mentions that other media claims faulty that the ABE is voided. Sorry, Adac is probably one of the best source for German rules concerning cars/driving. Yes, but they doing lobbing for the car drivers - so when there is a pittfall intow today law, that the gererall aproval expires when a GSM mobil is used insinde without an external antenna - the ADAC wouldn't publish this on that page - it would harm may ADAC members when the police starts controlling this. So I just gave the hint that no external antenna is no thechnicaly problem, but it could maybe by given law becomming a pittfall. A small connector for an external antenna - or asking some real experts (not ADAC) would help. Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Ok, one point is cleard - but what is with the external antenna and the general operation lizence of the car?
Salve Andreas! Andreas Kostyrka schrieb am Mittwoch, den 24. Januar 2007 um 14:58h: * Andreas Kostyrka [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070124 14:52]: I'm not a lawyer, but if you read the ticker, the OLG just found that a PDA with a GSM module is to be treated as a mobile. Now, the Adac article claims that it's ok to use a mobile, if you don't have to pick it up. E.g. buttons and voice control are named as an example for allowed interactions. To cite the law: D: (1a) Dem Fahrzeugführer ist die Benutzung eines Mobil- oder D: Autotelefons untersagt, wenn er hierfür das Mobiltelefon oder den D: Hörer des Autotelefons aufnimmt oder hält. The driver is forbidden the usage of a mobile or car phone, if he picks up or holds the mobile or car phone ear piece. Nothing in the court finding, nor in the law talks about touching a phone. http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/81970 - http://www.olgkarlsruhe.de/servlet/PB/menu/1203495/index.html?ROOT=1180141 (This is a link to the court) Benutzung eines Palm-Organizers im Straßenverkehr verboten Datum: 04.12.2006 Kurztext: Dies hat nun das Oberlandesgericht Karlsruhe in einer Grundsatzentscheidung entschieden und damit einen mit Telefonfunktion ausgestatteten Palm-Organizer einem Mobil- und Autotelefon, deren Benutzung dem Fahrzeugführer im Straßenverkehr untersagt ist, gleichgestellt. Please translate someone this parts Using of a PDA or similar electronic devices for the driver are forbidden in Germany since this decision of the court in Karlsruhe on 4th Dez 2006. Auch die Tatsache, dass der Betroffene zum Zeitpunkt der Fahrt das von ihm in der Hand gehaltene und bediente Gerät nicht zum Telefonieren, ^ sondern bei deaktivierter Mobilfunkkarte zum Abfragen des Datenspeichers benutzt habe, führe zu keiner anderen rechtlichen Einstufung des Gerätes. Ahh holding in his hand - so when it is fixed with a cradel it is still allowed to touch it. :))) Thank you for your feedback. Greetings rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
consider to use a proxy Re: web browser
Salve! On Wed, 24 Jan 2007, Nikita V. Youshchenko wrote: Is Neo going to have more or less featurefill web browser (e.g. with javascript machine, etc)? Featurefill web browser has not so a high priority on my whishlist that having a cheap low traffic and fast webbrowsing. So a Proxy on the Neo and a Proxy on a gateway server, compression and pictures and javascript/java only on demand would help very much. I guess in most cases I will use elinks as webbrowser with OpenMoko/Neo1973 Also caching intersting (news)pages before leaving home/office/cheap-or-free-internet-connection-area will IMHO more important than to have a featurefill webbrowser. Probably there will be 2 direction on the topic webbrowser. Just my 2 cents rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Squeak for the kids! Use Linux-vserver power before giving your Neo to a kid (or someone else) Re: Idea for OpenMoko: Kid Mode
Salve Sam! On Wed, 24 Jan 2007, Sam Kome wrote: I like this thread, although I'm not giving my $350 phone to my kids! In case that I would have kids, I wouldn't either, it is because of the price, but also because it isn't rough enough. Some more stuff for kids: see my mail OpenMoko/Neo1973 is pure (r)evolution :))) - do you recognized the power of multi-touch gesture recognition http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000258.html Robert Michel schrieb am Samstag, den 25. November 2006 um 04:22h: And for inspiration, remember the video about the squeak educational software, written in Smalltalk-80 (just for inspiration - I will not propose any language/enviroment to use with OpenMoko ;) http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-7680106513348266522q=Squeak (19 Min.) Imagine to combine something like that with a multi-touch screen : And while we were looking for a Wifi chip with open driver, we got a tip to see what chip the http://www.laptop.org project is using. So for this thread, beside that the OLPC laptop has more Pixel: Resolution: 1200 (H) × 900 (V) resolution (200 dpi) I expect that some educatial stuff from OLPC will be usable for OpenMoko devices. And linux-vserver could help, that a parent give his Neo1973 to his childes in the Kid mode without the danger, that they - doing expensive calls - bother your most important client or your boss - delete all your important data or what ever... Cheers, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Conference system / poster wall for the FOSDEM Re: Need for a clusterd megaphone via Bluetooth....
Salve Sean! On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Sean Moss-Pultz wrote: On 1/23/07 1:38 AM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Michel wrote: I need some help - it is realy a pitty that Sean will not speach on a stage at the FOSDEM 2007 Are you sure? :) I'm speaking. :))) Very fine! ;))) Sorry to make some rumour to get this anouncement from you, but I think you like it to get feedback that the people realy wants to hear you ;) So OpenMoko/Neo1973 will standing on the FOSDEM shedule quite soon? ;))) I just meant that I would prefer to walk around and hang out with you guys than sit at a booth all day. Of course - IMHO no need to stay the full time at the table :) But in the background of your nice interview I saw a nice Neo1973 wall (when you have to choose - leave it at home and bring more Neos with you) but when you can arrange to bring this mobil poster wall with you it would be great (IMHO)! You don't have to stand there all day - just put a small paper on the table: be here again at 12:50h and we'll go to lunch togehter :) It would be just a good meetingpoint :) Ah and the jumping person of the poster wall could be used for designing the t-shirt (or sweet-shirts) togehter with the slogan Free your phone Conference System### How many speaker and mics does the Neo1973 will have? At the bottle opener side it would be nice to have speaker and mic - that it would be possible to carry the neo at a neck like a pendant (jewel) and have a sound system at your head, but also a free speaking system for phoning... So with this, it would be possibel to put the Neo1973 on a table and have a directed free speak system as well. Now with Bluetooth it could be used as a Conference System. 30 people with a Neo sitting around a big table. Who's pressing his neo get the speach (red light) and the other got via Bluetooth the audio signal, but also Name of the speaker and his speaking time on the display :)) In a big confernce with a moderator, could be an auditorium, the people which want to ask a question could register themself that they want to ask and type their quetion to the moderator. He will got the name (and maybe function of the questioner) and a little bit later the question topic. Then he can sort how many questions are there, group them and call the questioner one by one. The questioner will not need to got a mic, he will speak into his Neo (and see how much time he still has for his question ...) Such a system can recorde the speach and the question automaticaly on every device so the people could take it directly with them (for open discussion - some political or business discussion will not be recorded - they have a mobil ban already) and external people can join this easyly via GSM or internet and also ask questions So such a conference system would be handy also for small meetings. Greetings rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: OpenMoko-ID
Salve Richard! On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Richard Franks wrote: Will we have something like this? Do we want something like this? It could be useful for contact-sharing, authentication, I would like see a decentralized system that also works offline - when I meet a person I'd like to give him a key that allows him to contact me via - telefon - email - jabber - sftp - ssh ... so one dns adress like login.robert-michel.openmopko.org or self organized: login.robertmichel.de or login.15231251234.dyn-dns.org And I like to choose idividuall login adresses for different users so that no eveal software could grab all IDs and analyse the social network... access to services on the OpenMoko site, keeping track of gaming friends, referencing file/data resources on the users home 'or otherwise' machine etc. OpenMoko could support personal networking, but I like to see it that it is not centralized via openmoko.org - I like to see to encourage people to have full control about their personal contacts. Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Neo1973 Car kit - some pittfalls due laws possible?
Salve Joe! Joe Pfeiffer schrieb am Dienstag, den 23. Januar 2007 um 09:00h: Robert Michel writes: but I have some doubts about the Car Kit because I heard that most of cars sold the last 10 years have a gerneal aproval (Allgemeine Betriebserlaubnis) that would expires when a radio transmitter (e.g. of a GSM mobil) is used inside during driving without using an external antenna. Speaking as a bit of a car nut, it's hard for me to imagine how a cell phone could affect the car's electronics... Well, put a mobile close to a speaker or AM radio... I haven't heard about any misfunction (of an Airbag or...) due a mobil inside a car but that not the counting point. When it is true, that the cars only have a general aproval when there is no mobile phone without an external antenna used inside then there is the danger, that some day it this fact is not only sleeping in the law papers, it could used someday from some mobil producers with external antenna connectors to boost their business by lobbing that this point has to be controlled by the police. So I haven't found a right source for this, the adac.de link hasn't an official law text and isn't about the point general aproval and mobiles without external antenna - it is only about the official requirements to free speak systems. A German car driver club (BTW the association/NGO with the most members in Germany) has an overview about law pittfalls in Germany around using a mobil in a car: http://www.adac.de/Recht_und_Rat/verkehrsrecht/verkehrsvorschriften_deutschland/handyverbot/default.asp I don't speak German (in spite of my last name); is there an English translation for this? AFAIK no. I posted this topic and link to this list, that some electrical engineer (who could speak German) would start to care about this point. So again - at the moment the police react only when people phoning without a free speak unit and sometimes when the people using a PDA during driving. Since last Dezember it is forbidden for the driver to touch a PDA/mobil computer with a radio(GSM)modul during driving with his fingers: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/81970 The law which forbit using your fingers to pick up a call or dial a inumber in a mobil phone is no expand to a gernal touch forbiddance due a judgement. As a matter of safety, it turns out that the major problem with using cell phones is the distraction, not having your hands unavailable to drive (even with a manual transmission). Car kits do very, very little to help. This is a general ban we have life with - I could imagine a touch GUI on a Neo1973 which to use would be more safe than using normal car radios but there is the general ban (thanks to the unsafe GUI of normal phones.. and PDAs) But to be precice - it is still allowed in Germany to use a PDA during driving with your fingers - but not a PDA with a GSM module - even when the PDA with GSM module is used only for navigation or music entertainment. Lawyers could find out if there is a chance when OpenMoko would have the power of a vserver and a car modus that intaction with the GSM part is blocked in the car modus IMHO this doesn't worth to deal with a beside laws or not it is better to take care themself and never touch a PDA/Phone/Navigation system while driving. So halt your car befor touching the screen. Beside voice commands the Neo1973 could offer a new function via GPRS - call your partner/your office/your secretary and please her/him to change your route remotly :)) While it has become allowed to use a mobil and GSM transmitter during flying a plain I fear that the laws could be be missused When has this become allowed? About last year? News from today: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/84079 (Sorry German again) in short: The airline Emirates will allow cellular phone calls from february 2007 on. [my comment: AFAIK will these modificated plains a micro GSM cell inside and route this call to the outside - so the mobile doesn't start to swith to burst with full power to find a cell.] Ryanair will modificate 50 plains till summer 2007 Use this link: http://www.about-electronics.eu/2007/01/16/this-is-your-captain-calling-emirates-allows-cellphone/ But there isn't a gereral permission to use such systems BTW micro cell - I saw some weeks ago a finish or swedish website of a university build their own UMTS station - is that allowed with UMTS beside GSM to run their own micro station? Something for Neo1973 version UMTS? Ok, I wanted only to stress, that there are some action to use mobil phones in plains and in opposide there could be a sleeping law about mobils inside cars. what someone should check before producing and selling the Neo1973 v1. Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
No problem - connect it via USB or Bluetooth Re: keyboard, please!
Salve quixote! On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, quixote wrote: It could be relatively easy to add a keyboard if it was simply an added hinged component, i.e. you had much the same shape, but it would be twice as thick (and heavy) for those of us desperate to have keyboards, and it would open on the long side, like the LG9800 or the ROAD phone. How do other people feel about this? I'm very happy that it hasn't one because too small keyboards are useless! With keystroking you could reach spead that beats normal 1-finger searching the right key system writer. And to write quick with 10 fingers the keyboard need to be bigger than 15 cm: There are cheap and ligthwight USB keyboards that you can add when you have to write more text... and via bluetooth it will be maybe not so secure - but wireless :)) But I expect that with the multitouch screen newer and better/faster text input will be possible. Greetings, rob (vim,mutt,elinks user) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
BTW could be the protocolls propritary and with the need to pay licence fees? Re: BT Vehicle Profiles
Salve Marcin, *! On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Marcin Juszkiewicz wrote: Dnia wtorek, 23 stycznia 2007 17:41, Duncan Hudson napisa?: 1. Get any Linux powered device into car system range. 2. Run 'hcitool scan' 3. Identify line which match car system. 4. Run 'sdptool browse ADDRESS_OF_CAR_SYSTEM|grep Service Name' 5. Send us output My sony Ericsson k750i phone reports: Service Name: Dial-up Networking Service Name: Serial Port Service Name: HF Voice Gateway Service Name: HS Voice Gateway Service Name: OBEX Object Push Service Name: OBEX File Transfer Service Name: OBEX SyncML Client Service Name: OBEX IrMC Sync Server Service Name: Mouse Keyboard This sounds open and not propritrary. But does maybe there any propritry protocolls out there which would costs licence fees? Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: GPS Outage
Salve Foucault! On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Foucault de Bonneval wrote: just two points about GPS : - will the Neo have a GPS connexion for an external antenna. Because some car glass don't let signals go through and some people I know had to buy antennas for Tomtom (pare brise athermique in French) Interesting point, but AGPS is working even inside buildings the chip will make about 200.000 calculations parallel and so the AGPS (assisted GPS) will be able to work even with low signal. I can imagine that there is still enough signal in such cars. And no. AFAIK it will have no atenna connector - and I think there will be no need for it. - will the V2 carry an FM reciever to get free live traffic (RDS I think) information ? Should be added on the V2 whishlist ;) Is there already one? Thanks to all for the ideas you are suggesting !!! Adding ideas are important to - show how powerfull such an smartphone with an GNU/Linux SDK and AGPS will be - and to avoid that companies block innovation by ask for patents for ideas - publishing ideas on this list will be a priory against such patents :) So go on to write about your ideas and wishes :) Real GPS Outage - I would like to see a falling back system based on GSM cell info, but maybe also some day with digital radio mondial and accurate time broadcasts so that the device could calculate the position with the help of mw/ukw radio stations. Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Some thoughts: 1GB flash hack possible? Or why not shipping 1GB directly?
Salve, Just some question and possible answer (I'm no expert): what will be the difference beween the 64MB NAND Flash memory of the Neo and 1GB NAND Flash inside a USB memory device I have bought for 12 Euro like: http://www.priz24.de/product_info.php?products_id=1970 ? So in case there will no nice surprice and the Neo1973 will be shipped with 1GB, will it be possible to hack it ourself to 1GB and have an advice like buy this USB Flash memory? I found no hack with buying an usb flash device for upgrading a phone, a NSLU2 or a MP3 player - only this: http://www.hackaday.com/2005/03/02/howto-nonviolent-ipod-shuffle-disassembly/ The link to samsung's pdf isn't working anymore On this page they have a Product Portfolio overview http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/NANDFlash/index.htm SLC(Small Block) 256,512Mbit and 1Gbit SLC(Large Block) 1-32Gbit Hmm 1GB SLC(Small Block) has 63 pins 8.5x15mm and 1GB SLC(Large Block) has 48 pins 12x17mm Beside the different Operating Voltage, do I guess right, that with 12x17mm = 204mm^2 and 8.5x15mm =127.5 size matters and it the flash chip is a Small Block - and 1GB would be the maximum for that design that samsung could offer? So that a hack could only upgrade to 128MB flash? And that Small Block with 1GBit are not normaly in USB flash devices and that this chips are much more expensive than 12 Euro? Ergo it would worth to hack it? Ah and when the flash will be FPGA like the SoC - there will be no memory hardware hacking for most of us... So when there will be no chance for us for hardware hacking the memory, maybe the restiction has a positive effect: 1. we will concentrate on software hacking 2. due the limitation we got a motivation to do this efficient :)) Does anybody knows more? Greetings, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
IMHO more a viewer problem and not a display problem one ; ) - better pdf and webbrower Re: Idea for one of the next Neos: Projecting the display via LEDs
Salve Uwe! On Sun, 21 Jan 2007, Uwe Koch wrote: it's still always the same problem: Mobile phones' displays are to small (size or resolution) to view documents, ebooks, whatever - but they are small to carry with. On the other hand PDAs are to large to carry with but are a better solution for ebooks or reading texts - but is it large enough? Yes it is - I've read complete books on my Palm 160x160. Imagine that you can view pics or even videos, on a projected part of the wall. Isn't that the solution? I love reading crazy ideas on this list, and so I'm happy to read this idea as well, but in this point I don't think it is realistic to use it inside a mobile phone and to do it. Why? Ok reading that ebooks on a screen 160x160 wasn't that comfortable, but it was possible. Remember that the Neo1973 will have a 480x640 resolution - that will be very fine for nearly unformated text. Display developement will continous and I expect even higher resolutions that 260 dpi - so than a four-times higher resolution could be used for a 2-times more text - at some point 8x4 pixel chars will become to tinny, but with some more pixel small chars on a very high resolution stay readable... - did you understood me? Then back to encrease the display size - With thin displays it could be done by a second and maybe third display to slide out... When reading a book not much CPU power is needed, in most cases not even colour - so when you want to be able to read a full book 12-20h you don't want a high battery consumption for it: The display should be tranfelctive or pure refective. Than projetion on a wall does not work on the road, in the train, bus, car or plain. When you whant to use it, you said yourself you would need external power... When a plain offers external power, it is very likly that it offers a video input for the display in front of you as well. Beeing on a conference or in someones office it could be a cool 007-gimick to impress that person but a transfective display will need less or just the same power, then a LED projection... When you are somewhere where other computer, monitors and beamers are, two thinks will help you: 1. a FreeNX connection to use someone else device (Via USB, Bluetooth or GPRS) a Java FreeNX client could help to do this without installation on the guest display device 2. When the Neo1973 would have USB 2.0 a VGA adapter would be usable, but even now you have the freedem to carry a small NSLU2 with a Bluetooth and VGA adapter with you - put it in that office close to the Workstation with the big display or beamer and that make your show from the Neo1973 via Bluetooth and FreeNX. For video let it play on the NSLU2 and your Neo1973 is just the remote for this. At last - what is with formated documents like pdf? Even 1024x640 screens are not the best solution for pdf. The designer whish to have a very big white border around is making me crasy, even with my laptop - so I would like to see a pdf viewer with the function to cut all this stupid white spaces and have an manual/automatic optimising to see the information better on any display when **I** whant this: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000406.html (my xpdf,webbrowser ideas) Both - the better pdf viewer and also using FreeNX are ways to use the power of using free software on the Neo1973 :)) and we can do it, having better solutions, from Neo1973 v1 on ;) Greetings, rob PS: I would expect that the small size beamer will be first external devices - when they need power and a non moved and good direction to the wall. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Let us not forget to give every new one a *very* warm welcome - Let us write a welcome message to all new subscriber! HowTo search the Mailinglist archive:http://www.google.de/search?hl=deq=python+si
Salve Jose and all new or old subscriber of this list! As much as I'm happy that new people join this mailing list, please consider that some hundreds or thousands people are on this list and repeating low level question will generate noise. So again, I'm very happy that many new people find the way to the Openmoko community mailinglist - but we do have a small problem - Sean, the project leader and the official people are very busy to prepare the first hard/software shipping of Neo1973/OpenMoko. So the information for newcommers like www.openmoko.com with http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html or even Seans anouncement from Saturday: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/00.html is not the best way to inform and wellcome new people to give them the full information and support to join the community. Just to write Is google down? will not help the new ones to join, and it is contra productive it does scare/dismotivate them to become active and charing productive ideas or solutions. So we, the OpenMoko community, should write an wellcome article what information have been collected, which ideas and possibilies we have thought/find out yet... so that the newcommers will not flood our list with the same questions again and again. I am working in some pygtk projects and I would like to know if it is built-in the device? When I look on openmoko.com/org this question from Jose is absolutly understandable - the information about python and OpenMoko/Neo1973 is hidden in our mail archive. We could anser, please search like this: http://www.google.de/search?hl=deq=python+site%3Aopenmoko.org But that's still not perfect, or just use ipkg install phython would not be the best answer for him - he has experiances in pygtk, a concrete answer about what is supported, how much python is used for the shipped first core functions - call manager, adressbook and how python is supported in the SDK and documentation... A good and informative answer as wellcome to this list, would make him think: Hey great - this is an interesting device, but also a community that I like to join - I have a feeling that together with this guys it will be a fruitfull and funny cooperation So everybody who are on this list for a longer time should consider that our power will be based on a good and efficent cooperation - The OpenMoko community could fast grow up to 10.000 or more people who like to chare their ideas and solutions. Don't be afraid about 10.000 or more people and don't think 10 good hackers would be more efficent! So even when our list got be flooded, stay friendly and please take care to welcome the nee people and give them a good information and a good feeling - motivate them to join and help to do this in a efficent way. One welcome message, written by us - maybe as webpage on openmoko.org and/or welcome mail for all new subscriber of the list would be a good thing - IMHO. To give this welcome message a stronger community feeling we all could sign this welcome message - maybe with a small statment about us, ore skills or what we are focusing to do with OpenMoko/Neo1973. I don't want to start this thread to have a theoretical discussion whith tools would be the best (could be done sometimes later), when you answer, please focus on what we can do until the February 20th whith our mailinglist, the wiki http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko to give everybody new a very warm welcome to our community. Cheers, rob PS: We can also write a little more to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenMoko and translate it in much more languages ;) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Phone for the blind
Salve Warren! On Sat, 20 Jan 2007, Warren Noronha wrote: Is there a text to speech feature planned. I ask this cause a while back a friend of mine who works with the blind, was looking out for phone to for his students (who are blind) Do you know this thread: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-December/000610.html ? The Neo1973 has an handcape that it has no buttons that you can feel, maby multitouch could blind people to type in: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000417.html I think the PBX asterisk will be able to run on the Neo1973 - so much interaction can be realized with voice menues, scripts and TTS. Cheers, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Is python built-in
Salve Mikko! On Mon, 22 Jan 2007, Mikko J Rauhala wrote: On ma, 2007-01-22 at 14:10 +0100, Robert Michel wrote: On Mon, 22 Jan 2007, Tomasz Zielinski wrote: I seriously doubt it. I found python RPM and it has about 10 MB *compressed*. All default Neo1973 software (including kernel and libs) must fit in 64MB flash storage... Why? it have a mountable microSD card (1,2, maybe 4 and more GB)- the 128MB RAM is the counting limitation, not the flash ;) _Default_ software. The default stuff must fit in without a microSD. Oh I see much power with 64MB flash and I do expect a skripting language like python fit on the flash. But not every lib must be inside the flash, right? I'll probably install python too, via BT-PAN or GPRS, but I don't expect it to be in there by default. Can I ask you why not via install it via USB (Network or USB flash stick) or from a microSD card (1GB starts at 16 Euro, 2GB at 46 Euro), why via GPRS? Big flash on a PCB is quite expensive, why not live with having libs, programms and data on the micro-SD? I miss more the chance to use a second micor-SD, or more RAM instead of worry that the 64MB flash storage could be to small. Nokias 770 has 128 MB flash but only 64 RAM - when I could choose I would take a Neo with 32 MB flash when it would have 256 MB RAM ;) Ok Sean said that the mikro-SD data speed is not so fast, so I'll be happy to have 64MB flash... I pleased Sean to make selfmade RAM and Flash upgrade possible - e.g. with an additional signal line but no feedback. Also I fear a discussion about more Flash or RAM with the v1 is a little bit late, or Sean? What would rise the cost for the device with more RAM or Flash? Ok, you are right, that it makes sence to think about which version of python and which libs will be used for the default software - but some feedback form the FIC OpenMoko team could bring more clearness to this point. My point was just to stress, that it isn't realy neccessary that all fits into the flash. Happy hacking, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
As I fear - no. Re: io ports besides usb audio?
Salve Soeren! On Mon, 22 Jan 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: will the neo have some other i/o ports forwarded to the outside besides the usb port and audio jack? AFAIK unhappyly not. i'd be intersted if there is one to do spi with a microcontroller. if not, would there be one iside the case that may be used? are there some schematics for the circuit board yet? No public schematics yet - from early beginning I tried to motivate Sean and his team to make this device hardware hackable as well, to solder some sensors and other stuff ourself to the phone. But I don't now if I was succsessfull with this (for the v1). why? - i'm controlling my home via irda or 433mhz radio - music, mp3 player, lights, everything. (no, not x10 -- completely homebrew + canbus) soldering a 433mhz remote into the case would be great. no, the bluetooth is no alternative in this case, since i'd have to write a bluetooth-stack for the atmega32-16 that controls it. You are right, build in 433mhz tranceiver would be funny maby in later Neo1973 versions? But you could use a device like a NSLU2 with a bluetooth adapter and then link the IO on the NSLU2 via Bluetooth to your Neo1973 (using the flexibility of Linux) So you will not have to write a bluetooth-stack for your atmega, nor by expensive BlueTooth IC working with this controller. See what all is addable to the NSLU2: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/HowTo/AddAThirtyFourPinUniversalConnector I hope you (and other hardware hackers) are not to much disapointed and do use OpenMoko and Neo1973 for cool and interesting projects and hacks. As more is be done, as more is populare to do with OpenMoko Neo1973 as more it is likly that FIC will support more connectors and build in things in the later generations of the Neo1973. Greetings, rob PS: Also a simple audio in would be great... but I fear the Neo v1 woun't have it either. ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Some IO hack ideas...Re: As I fear - no. Re: io ports besides usb audio?
Salve soeren! [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am Montag, den 22. Januar 2007 um 17:23h: On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 05:00:52PM +0100, Robert Michel wrote: I hope you (and other hardware hackers) are not to much disapointed and do use OpenMoko and Neo1973 for cool and interesting projects and hacks. As more is be done, as more is populare to do with OpenMoko Neo1973 as more it is likly that FIC will support more connectors and build in things in the later generations of the Neo1973. Not at all -- i'll find some... if it all fails, i'll try bitbanging via the one that are used micro-sd slot ;) Hey this sounds good :))) Quick ideas: (kiddingSean and all official Neo1973 developer please stop reading here - this ideas should give you no reason to do not use the last days untill shipping to add some smart solderpoints on the circuit board that everyone who will use the SPI, uart I2C or audio-in could hack it and spend some additional jacks to the Neo1973) The external USB could be catched internaly, the SIM slot could be multiplexed - send a high on one SIM conector and you could use a small chip to switch this port: In some of earlier threads are already some ideas around switching and multiplexing SDIO of the mikroSD and SIM slot http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/60.html Swithing the SIM port: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000131.html Happy hacking ;) rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Yes, let as walk into on room and you'll hanging out with us all, with talking a bit about OpenMoko/Neo1973 :)))) - Re: Sean, do you need a table in Brussel for the FOSDEM 2007? ; ) Re: Neo1973 devi
Salve Sean! Sean Moss-Pultz schrieb am Dienstag, den 23. Januar 2007 um 00:41h: On 1/22/07 9:07 PM, Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But Sean, when you are at the FOSDEM, do you need a table in BXL? Look: http://www.fosdem.org/2007/booths Many Open... there, but OpenMoko is still missing. When it belongs to a missing table, I could bring one with me from Aachen. I'm probably just going to be walking around and hanging out with you all. But _really_ thanks for the offer! It mustn't be a perfect presentation with nice slides like in Amsterdam - at the FOSDEM you will be able to show us OpenMoko/Neo1973 live. :) Hey you've said we are comming so when you are comming to hanging out and have some fun someone else could tell some storries of your project and show what it is possible now - and talk with us what'll be possible in the futur. Because of A-GPS I nearly can't wait to walking around with a Neo1973 - which api will be usable to script some funny things with it? But beside walking around and hanging out with us (It seems the offerd beers have already made you weary and to relaxed), beleave me - at last when you be asked for the third (or 1 hundred times) in BXL - Why does it have no Wifi? or some other things that nearly everybody is interested in you will whish to go into one room with us and answer this only once for all. See: http://www.fosdem.org/2007/media/video and think that your words/presentation would be accesible for everybody - aren't you proud to show the fist Neo1973 running? Maybe with the help of freeNX very big on a wall with a beamer? Hey guys, now you see the snafu - you promised Sean the beers to early - now he fears to get drunk hardly on Friday so he will not promisee to give a presentation the days after :(( My offered cake (I alread thought to make it in the style of a Neo1973) haven't work Maby this helps: Can somebody from sweden bring a bottle like on page 29 http://www.openmoko.com/files/OpenMoko_Amsterdam.pdf to the FOSDEM to motivate Seam to give a speach¹? @Sean Speach, speach, speach... :))) rob ¹other word for presentation ;) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Need for a clusterd megaphone via Bluetooth....
Salve! I need some help - it is realy a pitty that Sean will not speach on a stage at the FOSDEM 2007 I'm probably just going to be walking around and hanging out with you all. http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001891.html But when he'll bring some or many Neo1973 with him, a software solution could help that everyone will hear his smaller and bigger stories about OpenMoko and the Neo1973: Because the Neo1973 will have - Bluetooth free radio connections, yeahaa!! - a mic - two 1 watt loud speaker - AGPS for getting the accurate time Someone could programm a clusterd megaphone - the Neo1973 at Seans neck will be the master broadcater - his mic will be on and the stream will be broadcasted via Bluetooth. All others Neo1973 will be relays and loudspeaker - the AGPS will help to syncronice the audio output Ok maybe with 1 ore more relays the delay will become to long - than the will be the audio output inside a room (with the help of AGPS) allows only direct receiving from Seans Neo. 24 Neo1973 would gave 24x2x1Watt=48 Watt cluster blaster. For the party in the night - we could syncronice our Neo1973 to play the same simultanious (on miliseconds accurate - thanks to AGPS) and to make some fun - 12 of us could be the group for right - the 12 others be the left - or ths cluster blaster would automaticaly organise the best sectioning. For corner sectioning lll l rrr rrr lll rr lll If someone from the upper right goes to the upper left his audio output would swith form r to l automaticaly. So no need to rent a PA for a party anymore, when enough people with OpenMoko/Neo1973 are invited :) Cheers, rob PS: Sean - even without a speach or Neo1973s it would be a plesure to meet you in BXL - no fear that I/we would expect to much - it is nice that you will come :) ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: Need for a clusterd megaphone via Bluetooth....
Salve Michael! On Mon, 22 Jan 2007, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer wrote: Robert Michel wrote: I need some help - it is realy a pitty that Sean will not speach on a stage at the FOSDEM 2007 Are you sure? :) Oh it was such a good opener to my idea of a clusterd megaphone - Seans talk would transmitted to every Neo1973 at the FOSDEM... at this moment is Mc'S song Connected running in my radio Here we go - If you make sure you're connected Wasn't the idea funny to broadcast all his talks? ;) Okok I missed to write a seems It seems that Sean will not speach - I was try to kidding him a little bit and would realy like to listen to him - and I think all others here as well. Or are you (or someone else) going to give a presentation with Sean? C'one the best time for a presentation about OpenMoko/Neo1973 is when it just be published. Sean: I'm probably just going to be walking around and hanging out with you all. Ahhh Have I'm be the fool and Sean was kidding me? His answer was only about the table-offer. I will be patient and will see if OpenMoko will find a way to be on this list: http://www.fosdem.org/2007/schedule/days :) Cheers, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Re: unpowered usb host idea (hack)
Salve Derek! nice idea :) On Mon, 22 Jan 2007, Derek Pressnall wrote: I realize that the reason the usb host port is unpowered is because the phone runs at something like 3.6 volt, and powered usb requires 5 volt, which would add the need for dc-dc converters. So, I've got an idea... and another, someone could play with usb flash-memory and lower the power suply of this usb device down to 3.6 volt. I could imagine, that it will still work. What about adding a power tap next to the usb port, running at the phones native voltage? So under the battery cover we could place a small switch to give 3.6 volt to the usb connector - maybe together with a small red led to warn (when warning is neccessary). Next hack - using a cheap usb flash-memory and spend this memory a mini USB connector fit into Neo1973. This should only be a matter of adding an additional connector (and possibly protection circuitry). Then, an adapter cable can be manufacured seperately that has a usb mini-A and power tap connector on one end, and a full-sized usb-A on the other, with the dc-dc circuit inbetween? This way, it leaves the potential for powered external devices without complicating the phones circuitry. Of course I realize that can't be included in the first production run, but possibly an idea for the followon product. But you could influence some hardware hackers, can't waiting untill Neo1973 v.2 ;) Happy hacking, rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
how to get the video Re: Sean interview
Salve Alexander! On Mon, 22 Jan 2007, Alexander McLeay wrote: On 1/22/07, Tomasz Zielinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRvtAAXTIlg Nothing new, but still worth watch :-) Is it available in a downloadable format for people who can't view Flash movies? (I'm running Linux on a PPC machine here, so nothing from Adobe...) hmm I found this http://www.arrakis.es/~rggi3/youtube-dl/ I can't garanty if this will harm your system: curl -RO http://www.arrakis.es/~rggi3/youtube-dl/youtube-dl chmod +ux youtube-dl apt-get install python2.4 vi youtube-de change line 1 into python2.4 comment out line 104-106 - some problem with title converting ./youtube-dl http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRvtAAXTIlg vlc jRvtAAXTIlg.flv The big qestion is - where is the original source of this video? Can we get it from there without flash? Thanks to Tomasz - I didn't now this video and it worth looking it :))) Greetings rob ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
BTW Manifesto - I found My Mobile 2.0 Manifesto from Fabrizio Capobianco (funambol) Re: Time for a community manifesto? And let us spread this good News :) Re: Free Your Phone
Salve! Robert Michel schrieb am Samstag, den 20. Januar 2007 um 16:47h: Dear OpenMoko fellows! Seans mail sounds like a manifesto, Debian has one,too, so what do you think when we community would having one as well to emphasise our effort to share knowhow, skills and solutions, and to encourage and support OpenMoko/Neo1973 users to become active with us? Such a community-manifesto would answers Seans call to become active and cooperate with FIC/OpenMoko/Neo1973 - it would be strong and convincing for the media and interested people. I searched webpages for OpenMoko Manifesto and I found this: http://www.funambol.com/blog/capo/2006/11/my-mobile-20-manifesto.html --snipp-- 2. Mobile 2.0 is all about open standards and open platforms. Same as Web 1.0. It all happens when standards get into the mainstream. Let's forget ActiveSync(¹), BlackBerry, Good and the like. Standards are here and will make this big. It is SyncML and others. They are on 800,000,000 phones today. 3. Mobile 2.0 is driven by open source. Open source is the center element of Mobile 2.0. Developers drive it. It is an unstoppable force. Look at what we are doing with OpenMoko(²) and Mobile Linux. Look at Java ME going open source today or the announcement of Motorola a couple of weeks ago. We are pushing big companies to change and move towards open source. It is an unstoppable process. --snapp-- BTW, do we need to care about a Mobile Web 2.0 hype? This manifesto from Fabrizio is still top-down determined by a CEO of a company - a community manifesto could maybe need still some time, but OpenMoko/Neo1973 will open us a door to evolve a power on a smart phone like GNU/Linux, Debian or the Wikipedia - probably stronger, but definitely more flexible then any close source project will be. To have an efficient button-up powered force, or a good cooperation of button-up and top-down projects inside the framework of OpenMoko some help would be needed to give a normal user easy access to information and knowledge - what's going on - where his skills could be used best - and allow to cooperate with a view minutes - like with the wikipedia. A manifesto written by the community could help (keep it in mind)- but also other ideas to help that the users are not an inefficent mass... Greetings, rob ¹ http://www.funambol.com/blog/capo/2006/05/activesync-syncml-and-evil-empire.html ² http://www.funambol.com/blog/capo/2006/11/openmoko-how-you-change-game-in-mobile.html ___ OpenMoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org https://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
