Re: Fun with IMEI (was testing the free calypso software)

[Michael Spacefalcon]

=?UTF-8?B?S2FpIEzDvGtl?=  wrote:

> thanks to the recent activies I also thought about IMEI yesterday
> evening and it was fun that other's also did. Setting IMEI would still
> be a nice feature.

A general purpose FFS editing kit for GTA01/02 modems, which will
include the ability to set the IMEISV to whatever you like, is coming
soon - be patient.  (Or if you are impatient, feel free to follow the
project as it happens in the Mercurial repository on Bitbucket.)

Yes, I said IMEISV, not just IMEI - if you don't know the difference,
read it up on Wikipedia etc.  Even though the file in TI's device file
system is named /pcm/IMEI (at least on older modems like Om's which
don't use the so-called "IMEI protection"), the number it actually
stores is the IMEISV.  The file is (or should be) exactly 8 bytes long,
storing the 16 digits of IMEISV, two digits per byte, and the GSM
protocol stack into which this number is fed (by way of a function
called cl_get_imeisv(), grep for it in the leo2moko source) treats the
last two digits (stored in the last byte) as the SV field, not the
Luhn check digit.

That being said, it looks like both Openmoko/FIC and Pirelli/Foxconn
set the SV field of their factory-programmed IMEISV numbers to x0,
where x is the Luhn check digit for the IMEI part, such that one can
"cheat": take the 16-digit IMEISV, drop the last digit, and treat the
remaining 15 digits as if they were the "classic" IMEI.  (Such
"cheating" is what my current leo2moko implementation of the AT+CGSN
command does - I made it match Om's functionality before I realized
that /pcm/IMEI is really IMEISV.)  A more reliable way to retrieve the
complete IMEI information on any TI-based modem is to issue an ATD*#06#
command: it will return a 17-digit number consisting of the 14 digits
of the IMEI proper, the Luhn check digit, and the 2 SV digits.

> In addition it would be interessting for me (in times of surveillance)
> whether silent sms (stealth ping) could be recognized and a report be
> dropped to the mobile phone. Also the change to non-encrypted transfer
> would be a similar event which might occure due to an IMSI catcher, so
> generating a message (SMS?) warning the user would be helpful.

Before we can implement the alerting functions you are asking for, we
need to liberate the GSM protocol stack first.  The current leo2moko
fw has this protocol stack in a bunch of binary object libraries, as
that's what TI provided in the TCS211 ("Leonardo") deliverable.  Full
source forms of closely related versions are available through the
TSM30 and LoCosto leaks though, the latter being more promising - hence
the current FC project plan is to try lifting the g23m* code layers
from the LoCosto version, and see what we get.  But there is a bunch
of other preparatory work that needs to get done before we get to that
point.

> Also: Could the gsm module be made working without a SIM, i.e. just by
> providing the necessary values like IMSI and Ki?

Sure thing, and OsmocomBB already supports such usage.  But where are
you going to get a Ki that is recognized as valid by the GSM network
you wish to use?  And what would the corresponding phone number
(MSISDN) be?

VLR,
SF

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Re: Fun with IMEI (was testing the free calypso software)

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Tuesday, February 04, 2014 a las 08:34:00PM +0100, Kai Lüke escribió:

> 
>  Also the change to non-encrypted transfer
> would be a similar event which might occure due to an IMSI catcher, so
> generating a message (SMS?) warning the user would be helpful.

For this see the thread in our mailing list with the Subject: 

Subject: FR && non encrypted calls

in July 2011. I.e. the FR knows perfectly well if the call is ciphered
or not. We only should bring this information to the GUI with a
question: Call not ciphered, should we continue yes or no?

matthias

-- 
Sent from my FreeBSD netbook

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UNIX since V7 on PDP-11, UNIX on mainframe since ESER 1055 (IBM /370)
UNIX on x86 since SVR4.2 UnixWare 2.1.2, FreeBSD since 2.2.5

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Re: Fun with IMEI (was testing the free calypso software)

[Kai Lüke]

Hello community,

thanks to the recent activies I also thought about IMEI yesterday
evening and it was fun that other's also did. Setting IMEI would still
be a nice feature.
In addition it would be interessting for me (in times of surveillance)
whether silent sms (stealth ping) could be recognized and a report be
dropped to the mobile phone. Also the change to non-encrypted transfer
would be a similar event which might occure due to an IMSI catcher, so
generating a message (SMS?) warning the user would be helpful.

Also: Could the gsm module be made working without a SIM, i.e. just by
providing the necessary values like IMSI and Ki? As far as I don't know
the issue well, it's just a question ;)

Regards,
Kai

Am 04.02.2014 01:23, schrieb Michael Spacefalcon:
> Norayr Chilingarian  wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know what will happen in a cellular network where there is
>> more than one device has the same IMEI. In other words, if we all
>> could change our IMEI numbers, and use one imaginary number, are there
>> technical reasons for network to not work.
> joerg Reisenweber  responded:
>
> : no technical but organizational. Usually that IMEI gets an instant ban, and
> : a fat bold red alarm logline in carrier's network logs.
>
> Yup, if all of us were to use the same IMEI number, it would be far
> too easy for our enemies to ban that one single number.
>
>> I mean, MAC address is used on a physical layer, so if two network
>> cards connected to the same switch have same MAC adresses, network
>> won't work. I guess switch will down both ports connected to those
>> devices.
> The analogy between IMEIs and Ethernet MAC addresses is a good one
> from a manufacturing/management perspective, but not in terms of
> network protocol usage.  Unlike MAC addresses, IMEIs are not used for
> any kind of addressing or routing anywhere in the network, only as a
> "management" identifier that is unnecessary in the strict technical
> sense.
>
> But from the perspective of a device manufacturer (which I will become
> soon, hopefully), IMEIs are just like Ethernet MAC addresses: the
> nominal requirement is that each be world-unique for all time (a rule
> that gets broken in reality with both MAC addresses and IMEIs), a
> manufacturer has to buy a range (supposedly "fresh" and unused) from a
> central registry, and then number individual produced units out of
> that range.
>
>> But I don't know how IMEI's work. Are they technically necessary so
>> that 3G/gsm network can be operational, or they are only used to
>> identify (and track) customers by devices?
> The latter.
>
> Before everyone starts changing their IMEIs just for the heck of it,
> let's analyze *rationally* how tracking works - or rather, what is the
> total set of data elements available to carriers (and their gov't
> partners etc) for tracking users, and how these data elements inter-
> relate.
>
> If you like maintaining a long-term-constant phone number at which
> your family and friends can reach you (i.e., the whole purpose for
> having a cellphone, at least for me), and you have a long-term-stable
> SIM card associated with that long-term-constant phone number, then it
> doesn't really matter if your IMEI is also constant or if you send the
> output of a PRNG (or even a TRNG) to the network as your IMEISV every
> time your phone/modem fw does the "register" operation.  The constant
> SIM card with its IMSI, as well as the associated MSISDN (phone number
> for your family and friends to call you at), is what tells the network
> that "you" are still the same "you", no matter what device you use or
> what IMEISV it transmits.  Yes, you can deregister from the network,
> then re-register with a different IMEI, making it look like you turned
> your phone off, moved your SIM card to another phone, then came back
> online with the latter - but what would be the point?
>
> Instead, there are only two scenarios I can think of in which it would
> make sense to change the IMEI of a GSM device:
>
> 1. If you really want to "disappear w/o trace", such that you discard
>your old SIM, get a new SIM (prepaid, presumably) with a different
>phone number (and deliberately make yourself unreachable at your
>old one), and you want to make it look like the user of the new SIM
>is a different person from the user of the old SIM - in this case
>the same IMEI would indeed give you away, so you might want to
>change it in this case.
>
> If the above applies to you (and it does *not* apply to me, as changing
> phone numbers constantly would defeat the whole purpose of a cellphone
> for me), then you need to be careful to change your IMEI *at exactly
> the same time* when you change your SIM - if there is any time skew
> between these two changes, such that a network sees {old IMEI, new SIM}
> or {new IMEI, old SIM} at any time, even just once, your anonymity
> effort will be instantly brought to naught!  If you want to do this, I
> would recommend pulling your old S

Fun with IMEI (was testing the free calypso software)

[Michael Spacefalcon]

Norayr Chilingarian  wrote:

> Does anyone know what will happen in a cellular network where there is
> more than one device has the same IMEI. In other words, if we all
> could change our IMEI numbers, and use one imaginary number, are there
> technical reasons for network to not work.

joerg Reisenweber  responded:

: no technical but organizational. Usually that IMEI gets an instant ban, and
: a fat bold red alarm logline in carrier's network logs.

Yup, if all of us were to use the same IMEI number, it would be far
too easy for our enemies to ban that one single number.

> I mean, MAC address is used on a physical layer, so if two network
> cards connected to the same switch have same MAC adresses, network
> won't work. I guess switch will down both ports connected to those
> devices.

The analogy between IMEIs and Ethernet MAC addresses is a good one
from a manufacturing/management perspective, but not in terms of
network protocol usage.  Unlike MAC addresses, IMEIs are not used for
any kind of addressing or routing anywhere in the network, only as a
"management" identifier that is unnecessary in the strict technical
sense.

But from the perspective of a device manufacturer (which I will become
soon, hopefully), IMEIs are just like Ethernet MAC addresses: the
nominal requirement is that each be world-unique for all time (a rule
that gets broken in reality with both MAC addresses and IMEIs), a
manufacturer has to buy a range (supposedly "fresh" and unused) from a
central registry, and then number individual produced units out of
that range.

> But I don't know how IMEI's work. Are they technically necessary so
> that 3G/gsm network can be operational, or they are only used to
> identify (and track) customers by devices?

The latter.

Before everyone starts changing their IMEIs just for the heck of it,
let's analyze *rationally* how tracking works - or rather, what is the
total set of data elements available to carriers (and their gov't
partners etc) for tracking users, and how these data elements inter-
relate.

If you like maintaining a long-term-constant phone number at which
your family and friends can reach you (i.e., the whole purpose for
having a cellphone, at least for me), and you have a long-term-stable
SIM card associated with that long-term-constant phone number, then it
doesn't really matter if your IMEI is also constant or if you send the
output of a PRNG (or even a TRNG) to the network as your IMEISV every
time your phone/modem fw does the "register" operation.  The constant
SIM card with its IMSI, as well as the associated MSISDN (phone number
for your family and friends to call you at), is what tells the network
that "you" are still the same "you", no matter what device you use or
what IMEISV it transmits.  Yes, you can deregister from the network,
then re-register with a different IMEI, making it look like you turned
your phone off, moved your SIM card to another phone, then came back
online with the latter - but what would be the point?

Instead, there are only two scenarios I can think of in which it would
make sense to change the IMEI of a GSM device:

1. If you really want to "disappear w/o trace", such that you discard
   your old SIM, get a new SIM (prepaid, presumably) with a different
   phone number (and deliberately make yourself unreachable at your
   old one), and you want to make it look like the user of the new SIM
   is a different person from the user of the old SIM - in this case
   the same IMEI would indeed give you away, so you might want to
   change it in this case.

If the above applies to you (and it does *not* apply to me, as changing
phone numbers constantly would defeat the whole purpose of a cellphone
for me), then you need to be careful to change your IMEI *at exactly
the same time* when you change your SIM - if there is any time skew
between these two changes, such that a network sees {old IMEI, new SIM}
or {new IMEI, old SIM} at any time, even just once, your anonymity
effort will be instantly brought to naught!  If you want to do this, I
would recommend pulling your old SIM out first, throwing it away, then
doing the IMEI changing operation on the SIM-less modem, and then
finally inserting your new SIM.

2. Changing one's IMEI may be necessary if your "legitimate" IMEI from
   the manufacturer of your GSM device has been wrongfully banned or
   blocked by some GSM network you wish to use, and you need to use
   some non-blocked IMEI in order to get on the network.

The wrongful ban scenario is particularly frightening when applied to
whole classes of devices, rather than individual units.  The first 8
digits of the IMEI comprise the Type Allocation Code (TAC), which is
supposed to be allocated per each device type.  Hence if all
manufacturers involved played by the rules (of which I have no
knowledge), then every IMEI beginning with 35278901 is supposed to be
a Pirelli DP-L10, every IMEI beginning with 35465101 is supposed to be
an Openmoko GTA02, and so

Re: testing the free calypso software

[joerg Reisenweber]

On Mon 03 February 2014 21:42:38 Norayr Chilingarian wrote:
> Does anyone know what will happen in a cellular network where there is
> more than one device has the same IMEI. In other words, if we all
> could change our IMEI numbers, and use one imaginary number, are there
> technical reasons for network to not work.

no technical but organizational. Usually that IMEI gets an instant ban, and a 
fat bold red alarm logline in carrier's network logs.

cheers
jOERG
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Re: testing the free calypso software

[Norayr Chilingarian]

Does anyone know what will happen in a cellular network where there is
more than one device has the same IMEI. In other words, if we all
could change our IMEI numbers, and use one imaginary number, are there
technical reasons for network to not work.

I mean, MAC address is used on a physical layer, so if two network
cards connected to the same switch have same MAC adresses, network
won't work. I guess switch will down both ports connected to those
devices.

But I don't know how IMEI's work. Are they technically necessary so
that 3G/gsm network can be operational, or they are only used to
identify (and track) customers by devices? I am just curious.

01/29/14 12:39 -ում, Michael Spacefalcon-ը գրել է:
> And yes, there is that file named /pcm/IMEI in there, with quite 
> obvious content.  Use cat -h as it's a binary file, two IMEI
> digits per byte, using the least significant nibble first - so it
> looks counter-intuitive in a hex dump.


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Re: testing the free calypso software

[David Matthews]

I've now prepared a second distro that can be used to flash the calypso with 
either of the two methods using Michael's loadtool program.

This distro uses QTmoko as a base and includes the loadtool-r2 release and both 
the leo2moko-r1 and moko11 firmware. As such, you do not need an unlock cable 
(although you can use this distro in conjunction with one) and you do not need 
to compile anything on your PC or freerunner. Like my initial offering, this 
distro runs from sdcard and boots from the NOR menu, so you do not need to 
disturb anything you have in NAND.

Full write up at

http://winterveldt.co.za/leo2moko-p2.html

My thanks to Michael for his efforts so far to free the calypso and also to 
Radek for his continued work on QTmoko. 




--
David Matthews
m...@dmatthews.org

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Re: testing the free calypso software

[Michael Spacefalcon]

Norayr Chilingarian  wrote:

> If someone has no backup of calibration data, can she use calibration
> data from other phone?
> Then we can send our data to that person. Or it won't work this way?
> I probably don't understand it well.

joerg Reisenweber  followed up:

> Not recommended and not entirely correct procedure but nevertheless should
> sort of work, yes. You might want to edit the IMEI to what yours been, before
> (or after) you flash that alien calib data.

I still have a lot of learning ahead of me in this department, but per
my current understanding, the purpose of RF calibration is to measure
those physical variations which exist from one produced unit to the
next, and to record these measurements (or some values derived from
the measurements) in per-device non-volatile memory, such that the
modem firmware can then take account of and compensate for these per-
device differences.  I'm guessing it has something to do with non-
linearity in the amplifiers, process variations in the ADCs and DACs,
temperature sensitivities etc.  This document from TI attempts to
explain some of it:

ftp://ftp.ifctf.org/pub/GSM/Calypso/rf_calibration.pdf

So my current understanding is that at least some of the calibration
values will differ from one unit to the next, and I reason that taking
the values from one unit and using them on a different unit may cause
some poor RF performance, or out-of-spec operation in terms of Tx
power levels perhaps.  I have no way of knowing just how much
difference there is between one GTA02 and the next, and hence what
would the magnitude of ill effects from a calibration transplant be.

A good experiment would be to compare the calibration values (properly
programmed at the factory, presumably) read out of different GTA02
units.  The flash dump from my GTA02 can be found here:

ftp://ftp.ifctf.org/pub/GSM/GTA02/flashdump.bin

I made that dump from my GTA02 back in 2013-04, and put it on the FTP
site in 2013-07, long before the recent project breakthroughs.  The
first 0x225594 bytes of that flash image (just under 2.25 MiB) contain
the moko10 fw image (what my FR came with); the interesting part (the
FFS) starts at offset 0x38.

Using the new tiffs/mokoffs tools I just wrote (get them from the Hg
repository on Bitbucket or wait for my coming-soon tarball release),
we can examine the content in this FFS image.  Let's start with the
basic vital stats:

$ mokoffs -f flashdump.bin blkhdr
Block   0: age , type/status AB
Block   1: age , type/status BD
Block   2: age , type/status BD
Block   3: age , type/status BD
Block   4: age , type/status BD
Block   5: age , type/status BD
Block   6: age , type/status BF
$ mokoffs -f flashdump.bin fsinfo
Active inode block (AB) is block #0
Root inode is #1
Root inode (format) name: /ffs-root

(mokoffs is a trivial wrapper around tiffs that spares the user from
 having to specify the 64x7 FFS organization argument every time, and
 -f means that one is looking at a complete flash dump, rather than
 just the FFS sectors - hence the tool needs to go to offset 0x38.)

Listing the actual content is easy too:

$ mokoffs -f flashdump.bin ls
fr4096 /.journal
d  /gsm
d  /gsm/rf
d  /gsm/rf/tx
f  512 /gsm/rf/tx/ramps.900
f  128 /gsm/rf/tx/levels.900
f  128 /gsm/rf/tx/calchan.900
f  512 /gsm/rf/tx/ramps.1800
f  128 /gsm/rf/tx/levels.1800
f  128 /gsm/rf/tx/calchan.1800
f  512 /gsm/rf/tx/ramps.850
f  128 /gsm/rf/tx/levels.850
f  128 /gsm/rf/tx/calchan.850
f  512 /gsm/rf/tx/ramps.1900
f  128 /gsm/rf/tx/levels.1900
f  128 /gsm/rf/tx/calchan.1900
d  /gsm/rf/rx
f   40 /gsm/rf/rx/calchan.900
f8 /gsm/rf/rx/agcparams.900
f   40 /gsm/rf/rx/calchan.1800
f8 /gsm/rf/rx/agcparams.1800
f   40 /gsm/rf/rx/calchan.850
f8 /gsm/rf/rx/agcparams.850
f   40 /gsm/rf/rx/calchan.1900
f8 /gsm/rf/rx/agcparams.1900
f2 /gsm/rf/afcdac
f2 /gsm/rf/stdmap
f   24 /gsm/rf/afcparams
d  /gsm/com
f   16 /gsm/com/rfcap
d  /gsm/l3
f  144 /gsm/l3/rr_white_list
f  256 /gsm/l3/rr_black_list
f   44 /gsm/l3/eplmn
d  /gsm/cops
f   16 /gsm/cops/operimsi
d  /pcm
f   12 /pcm/CGMI
f   13 /pcm/CGMM
f   14 /pcm/CGMR
f8 /pcm/IMEI
f9 /pcm/IMSI
f   23 /pcm/LRN
f   21 /pcm/LMN
f   22 /pcm/LDN
d  /sys
d  /mmi
d  /vos
d  /vos/vm
d  /vos/vrm
d  /vos/vrp
d  /var
d  /var/log
d  /var/tst
d  /var/dbg
f 3152 /var/dbg/dar
d  /Test
f4 /Test/Teststate.bin
f  196 /Test/Production.bin
d  /aud
f  164 /aud/para0.cfg

Most of the above should be self-explanatory; the numbers shown before
the pathname for files ('f' as opposed to 'd') are the lengths of each
file in bytes.  The files containing the RF calibration values we are
currently discus

Re: testing the free calypso software

[joerg Reisenweber]

On Tue 28 January 2014 18:58:19 Norayr Chilingarian wrote:
> 01/27/14 10:26 -ում, Michael Spacefalcon-ը գրել է:
> > In the absolute worst case scenario imaginable, if someone does lose
> > their RF calibration values and has no backup copy anywhere, you
> > should be able to send your FR to some lab to get it recalibrated.  I
> 
> If someone has no backup of calibration data, can she use calibration
> data from other phone?
> Then we can send our data to that person. Or it won't work this way?
> I probably don't understand it well.
> 

Not recommended and not entirely correct procedure but nevertheless should 
sort of work, yes. You might want to edit the IMEI to what yours been, before 
(or after) you flash that alien calib data.

/j
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Re: testing the free calypso software

[Norayr Chilingarian]

01/27/14 10:26 -ում, Michael Spacefalcon-ը գրել է:
> Even in the case of the FFS with the RF calibration values etc, there
> is absolutely no danger of corrupting this FFS if you issue loadtool
> commands exactly per the instructions.  Saving a backup copy of the
> FFS sectors is a precaution just in case you erase or write to the
> wrong part of the flash.  If you have this backup saved, you can
> always restore it.
> 
> In the absolute worst case scenario imaginable, if someone does lose
> their RF calibration values and has no backup copy anywhere, you
> should be able to send your FR to some lab to get it recalibrated.  I

If someone has no backup of calibration data, can she use calibration
data from other phone?
Then we can send our data to that person. Or it won't work this way?
I probably don't understand it well.

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Re: testing the free calypso software

[Patryk Benderz]

[cut]
> But I still think that it would be better for FreeCalypso to have its
> own "identity" that is separate and independent from Openmoko, i.e.,
> its own mailing list, its own website (wikified or otherwise) etc.
Hi Michael,
I keep on reading news about free firmware you are working on here, but
despite your hard work, I will not register to yet another ML just for
this. FYI.

-- 
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Linux Registered User #377521
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Re: testing the free calypso software

[Michael Spacefalcon]

joerg Reisenweber  wrote:

> That's a bold misconception. OM wiki isn't censored, it just gets cleaned of
> SPAM and obviously incorrect AND hazardous info, like e.g. somebody suggesting
> to run wear tests against NAND to verify its formatting.

But I still think that it would be better for FreeCalypso to have its
own "identity" that is separate and independent from Openmoko, i.e.,
its own mailing list, its own website (wikified or otherwise) etc.

As a result of my involvement on another mailing list (on a topic that
is totally unrelated to mobile phones), I became aware of this document
from the ISO Technical Committee on terminology:

http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/leapsecs/ISOTC37toITURA.pdf

Simply put, the authors of the above statement from ISO TC37 emphasize
the importance of using terms which have a 1:1 mapping to the concepts
they are meant to stand for, i.e., 1 concept = 1 term.

As you and others have made it perfectly clear on numerous occasions,
the term "Openmoko" was never meant to stand for the concept of "free
(or open) GSM modem"; instead this term (according to you and other
high-standing community members, which I obviously am not) stands for
a different concept, namely that of "a free application processor with
a black box modem attached as a peripheral".  And because the name
"Openmoko" rightfully belongs to you and your former boss Sean Moss-
Pultz, it is not my place to try to change its meaning.

(In fact, Dr. HNS is effectively invoking this term=concept equivalence
 of "Openmoko" = "free AP with a black box modem as a peripheral" when
 he asserts the legitimacy of his GTA04 product as a non-downgrade
 successor to Om products.)

But I am working with a completely different concept, namely that of a
free GSM device, be it a modem or a complete "dumbphone".  And because
it is an entirely different concept than that which is mapped by the
term "Openmoko", by the principles of ISO TC37 my new concept calls
for a new term for referring to it.  Hence the name FreeCalypso was
born: I came up with this name about this time last year, following
exactly the line of reasoning I've just outlined, and my first public
announcement of FreeCalypso was this one:

http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2013-February/068270.html

The FreeCalypso project is very much in need of its own web/list home
under the ifctf.org domain name, which currently features only an FTP
site.  My desire is to create a lists.ifctf.org host first, hosting
Mailman mailing lists exactly like Openmoko and almost all FOSS
projects and technical communities have nowadays - anything else would
be seen as substandard, and therefore unattractive to me.  A website
for FreeCalypso (wikified or not) can be created later, but my first
focus is on the lists host on which we can create a proper new mailing
list for FreeCalypso.

And because I already have my own physical "datacenter" on my own
physical turf, I *will not* buy hosting from someone else who would
ask me to agree to their TOS or AUP or the like - hence my only option
is to use my own physical hardware.  A SAS JBOD chassis is already on
its way to me from ebay, already paid for; the drives are next - as
soon as I gather the cash to buy 6 SAS drives of some non-laughable
capacity (I refuse to use SATA, and I desire 6 drives to start with
for a raidz2 ZFS configuration - I'll be running OpenSXCE), I will
finally have the necessary hw, and will begin the setup/configuration
work.

VLR,
SF

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Re: testing the free calypso software

[David Matthews]

Hi Giacomo

To clarify, there are two methods. The method I describe requires a cable as 
you run loadtools on your PC. The method Norayr describes does not need a cable 
as loadtools is run on the freerunner.

It was and is my intention to produce an sdcard distro that allows either 
method. The cable is not expensive though if you don't want to wait a month or 
so.

As for risk - as has been said, if the worst comes to the worst, there are the 
two methods on the wiki to fall back on. I've flashed the calypso to leo2moko, 
back to moko11 and back to leo2moko again using the cable / loadtools on PC 
method. I'm so confident about this (with wheezy on the PC) that I even 
proceeded with an attempted flash by the other method *after* seeing loadtools 
report fail with the backup routine. I'd propose that as a good indicator - if 
you can't run the backup routine successfully, don't proceed with a flash 
attempt.

It's likely my failure with the loadtools on freerunner / no cable method was 
because my sdcard distro has an ancient kernel. Obviously loadtools has not 
been widely tested yet, but I'd say there is zero risk with cable method and 
wheezy on the PC and I'd be very surprised if that does not apply to all recent 
and current versions of Gnu/Linux.
--
David Matthews
m...@dmatthews.org

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Re: testing the free calypso software

[joerg Reisenweber]

On Mon 27 January 2014 19:26:19 Michael Spacefalcon wrote:
> Giacomo 'giotti' Mariani  wrote:
> > By the way, I think that your work, with the right notes about being
> > experimental and so on of course, should also be in the official wiki.
> 
> As much as I would love to see it happen, I doubt that the powers
> controlling that wiki will ever allow it.

That's a bold misconception. OM wiki isn't censored, it just gets cleaned of 
SPAM and obviously incorrect AND hazardous info, like e.g. somebody suggesting 
to run wear tests against NAND to verify its formatting.

/j


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Re: testing the free calypso software

[Michael Spacefalcon]

Giacomo 'giotti' Mariani  wrote:

> Hi David, Michael, all,
> thanks a lot for your work, it is very emotional to see this
> "little" piece of freedom rising!

You're welcome. :-)

> I'm still not brave enough to risk my only (I mean in all my life time
> so far) mobile phone, but I will soon ;-)

There is nothing at risk really - if the leo2moko firmware doesn't
work for you for some reason, you can always revert to moko11, using
either our flashing tools or the "official" moko11 flasher.

Even in the case of the FFS with the RF calibration values etc, there
is absolutely no danger of corrupting this FFS if you issue loadtool
commands exactly per the instructions.  Saving a backup copy of the
FFS sectors is a precaution just in case you erase or write to the
wrong part of the flash.  If you have this backup saved, you can
always restore it.

In the absolute worst case scenario imaginable, if someone does lose
their RF calibration values and has no backup copy anywhere, you
should be able to send your FR to some lab to get it recalibrated.  I
don't offer such service currently because I haven't acquired the
necessary RF test equipment and process knowledge yet, but when I
start building my own Calypso phones, I will obviously need to get
them calibrated, and once we have the knowledge and the setup to do
it, Harhan Engineering Co. will also offer recalibration services to
Freerunner users.

> By the way, I think that your work, with the right notes about being
> experimental and so on of course, should also be in the official wiki.

As much as I would love to see it happen, I doubt that the powers
controlling that wiki will ever allow it.

> A small question about the procedure you describe: is the t191 cable
> only needed to backup the "vital parts of the calypso memory" or also to
> write the new firmware?

Both if you use the uSD system which David just released; neither if
you get FreeCalypso loadtools running on the Linux processor of your
FR like Norayr did.

Oh, and just to be clear as to exactly what the "vital parts of the
calypso memory" in question are: the only entity that lives in the GSM
modem's flash memory besides the firmware image (which is exactly the
same in a device as it is on the web at the official download URL) is
the flash file system, or FFS.  The FFS in Openmoko's modems takes up
exactly 448 KiB of flash space (64 KiB x 7); per TI's design it is
structured like a UNIX file system (directory tree, forward-slash-
separated pathnames, case-sensitive etc) and stores a bunch of things:

* The modem's IMEI;
* RF calibration values;
* ID strings which say that your device is a "Neo1973 GTA02" made by
  "FIC/OpenMoko" - Om's late firmwares (moko10/11) appear to not use
  these strings from FFS (fw returns hard-coded strings instead), but
  my leo2moko fw returns the strings from FFS following TI's canon;

* Some dynamic data written into the FFS (the fw always "mounts" the
  FFS with R/W access, TI's fw has no concept of a "read-only mount"
  for the FFS) during the operational lifetime of the modem: history
  of what SIM cards this modem saw, dialed/received/missed calls, and
  probably received SMS as well - I have yet to play with the latter.

Just this weekend I wrote a new utility for examining FFS images read
out of TI-based GSM devices (our beloved FR being one of them); this
new tiffs utility (with mokoffs and pirffs wrappers) supercedes my
earlier mpffs-* tools I wrote and released last summer.  The new
utility allows one to list and extract not only the "current" file
content of the FFS (i.e., what one sees when "mounting" the file
system normally), but also those files which have been logically
deleted or overwritten, but not yet reclaimed, i.e., not truly gone.
Hence the tool can be used to do forensics on Freerunner modems - I
suspect many of you probably never thought about the modem's flash
memory remembering the history of what SIM cards you had in there,
what numbers you called or received calls from, and probably your SMS
exchanges too...

The just-described utility currently lives in the freecalypso-sw tree
on Bitbucket:

http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2013-August/068850.html

Look in the ffstools directory.  Now I need to write some more
documentation and make a release tarball for the FTP site.  Stay
tuned; I'll post here when I make that release.

> By the way, yes, a distro able to flash and back-up everything without
> additional cables would be very appreciated.

Of course...  Shortage of qualified volunteer manpower is our only
limit.

VLR,
SF

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Re: testing the free calypso software

[Norayr Chilingarian]

I did not publish it in the mailing list, so here is link to my manual:

http://norayr.arnet.am/log/?p=113

If anyone who has wiki account wants to use it as reference, or even
to copy the text entirely, feel free and encouraged to do that.

01/27/14 07:17 -ում, Giacomo 'giotti' Mariani-ը գրել է:
> Hi David, Michael, all, thanks a lot for your work, it is very
> emotional to see this "little" piece of freedom rising!
> 
> I'm still not brave enough to risk my only (I mean in all my life
> time so far) mobile phone, but I will soon ;-)
> 
> By the way, I think that your work, with the right notes about
> being experimental and so on of course, should also be in the
> official wiki.
> 
> A small question about the procedure you describe: is the t191
> cable only needed to backup the "vital parts of the calypso memory"
> or also to write the new firmware?
> 
> By the way, yes, a distro able to flash and back-up everything
> without additional cables would be very appreciated.
> 
> Internationalist greetings, Giacomo
> 


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Re: testing the free calypso software

[Giacomo 'giotti' Mariani]

Hi David, Michael, all,
 thanks a lot for your work, it is very emotional to see this
"little" piece of freedom rising!

I'm still not brave enough to risk my only (I mean in all my life time
so far) mobile phone, but I will soon ;-)

By the way, I think that your work, with the right notes about being
experimental and so on of course, should also be in the official wiki.

A small question about the procedure you describe: is the t191 cable
only needed to backup the "vital parts of the calypso memory" or also to
write the new firmware?

By the way, yes, a distro able to flash and back-up everything without
additional cables would be very appreciated.

Internationalist greetings,
  Giacomo

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Re: Re: testing the free calypso software

[David Matthews]

>Note that because the uSD card distro which David just put together
>does not include loadtools internally (requires the use of the serial
>cable instead, with loadtools running on your PC), nothing in that
>distro became outdated as a result of this new loadtools release.  Just
>download the new loadtools and build them on your GNU/Linux PC.
>

Sure Michael - it's as you say. My write up and the distro are for the cable 
method only, so the new release of loadtools does not does not push it past 
sell by date. 

Thanks for the heads up though, because I'm eventually aiming to produce a 
sdcard distro that gives the option to use either method and that will need to 
have the latest loadtools installed. 


--
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m...@dmatthews.org

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Re: testing the free calypso software

[Michael Spacefalcon]

David Matthews  wrote:

> I've done a bit of work, which I hope will encourage other people to give it
> a test. There is a full write up at http://winterveldt.co.za/leo2moko.html,
> with links to a distro I've prepared for the sole purpose of flashing your
> freerunner's calypso - either with leo2moko or moko11 firmware.

Thanks, David!

And just in time, I've got a new release of loadtools out:

ftp://ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG/pub/GSM/FreeCalypso/loadtools-r2.tar.bz2

Changes from loadtools-r1 to loadtools-r2:

* A flash ID check has been implemented in fc-loadtool, invoked automatically
  before doing any erase or program operations, or explicitly at any time with
  the flash info command.  This check ensures that the type of flash chip in
  the target GSM device is the same as what loadtool thinks it is, based on the
  hardware parameters file.

* fc-xram command line syntax changed slightly in order to support immediate
  passing of the serial line to rvinterf/rvtdump.

* Miscellaneous minor polish.

Note that because the uSD card distro which David just put together
does not include loadtools internally (requires the use of the serial
cable instead, with loadtools running on your PC), nothing in that
distro became outdated as a result of this new loadtools release.  Just
download the new loadtools and build them on your GNU/Linux PC.

VLR,
SF

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Re: testing the free calypso software

[David Matthews]

^_~ whoops

>There is a full write up at http://winterveldt.co.za/leo2moko.html,with 

http://winterveldt.co.za/leo2moko.html

is correct


--
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testing the free calypso software

[David Matthews]

As the author claims, I've found his early steps towards a freeing of the 
calypso modem to work in the same way as the official moko11 release. Also the 
tools he's provided work equally well for flashing the moko11 firmware onto the 
freerunner as they do his own leo2moko-r1 offering.

I've done a bit of work, which I hope will encourage other people to give it a 
test. There is a full write up at http://winterveldt.co.za/leo2moko.html, with 
links to a distro I've prepared for the sole purpose of flashing your 
freerunner's calypso - either with leo2moko or moko11 firmware.

The distro runs from sdcard and boots from the freerunners NOR menu, so you do 
not need to disturb anything in NAND.


--
David Matthews
m...@dmatthews.org

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Re: [Community] 5th OpenPhoenux Hard&Software Workshop in Munich, Germany

[Matteo Zaffonato]

Il 11/09/2013 12:00, Lukas Märdian ha scritto:

Am 11.09.2013 17:42, schrieb Parchet Michaël:
Last year we used "Google Hangouts On Air" to provide a live stream and
video recordings:
   https://plus.google.com/117725562890824574975

It would be great if something like this could be managed this year as well.

Regards,
   Lukas

+1, it will be interesting also for marketing purpose.

Unfortunately I can't be there.

Matteo


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Re: [Community] 5th OpenPhoenux Hard&Software Workshop in Munich, Germany

[Lukas Märdian]

Am 11.09.2013 17:42, schrieb Parchet Michaël:
> Hello,
> 
> Cab you take some photos or videos of this event and post it on Internet ?

Last year we used "Google Hangouts On Air" to provide a live stream and
video recordings:
  https://plus.google.com/117725562890824574975

It would be great if something like this could be managed this year as well.

Regards,
  Lukas



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Re: [Community] 5th OpenPhoenux Hard&Software Workshop in Munich, Germany

[Parchet Michaël]

Hello,

Cab you take some photos or videos of this event and post it on Internet ?

Thanks

Best regards

mparchet

Le 11 sept. 2013 à 10:25, "Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller"  a 
écrit :

> 
> 
> Anfang der weitergeleiteten E-Mail:
> 
>> Von: "Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller" 
>> Datum: 11. September 2013 10:22:23 MESZ
>> An: OpenPhoenux Community 
>> Betreff: [Community] 5th OpenPhoenux Hard&Software Workshop in Munich, 
>> Germany
>> Antwort an: OpenPhoenux Community 
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> we are happy to invite to the 5th Open(Phoenux) Hard&Software Workshop in 
>> Munich, Germany.
>> 
>> The idea is a 2 days weekend meeting (quite informal) to discuss about many 
>> topics around open hard&software
>> like Openmoko, GTA04 and other topics. It is a mix of presentations, 
>> tutorials, workshops and we also did have
>> some soldering session.
>> 
>> Since this quite well matches with the ideas and targets of the Openphoenux 
>> community, we have renamed
>> it slightly this year to be an "OpenPhoenux Workshop".
>> 
>> For details please look at and pre-register (i.e. vote for a weekend and 
>> make proposals for topics):
>> 
>> http://www.ohsw.org/
>> 
>> There you can also find the topics, slides and some videos from previous 
>> years.
>> 
>> For this year's workhop, please suggest topics you are interested in (e.g. 
>> Neo900, future Kernel development, ...).
>> 
>> Please note that this page is in German as it is (was) a Germany centric 
>> workshop in the past, but
>> we are open to make it more international - if we have attendees from 
>> non-german speaking countries.
>> 
>> BR,
>> Nikolaus
>> 
>> ___
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>> commun...@openphoenux.org
>> http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo/community
>> http://www.openphoenux.org
> 
> 
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Fwd: [Community] 5th OpenPhoenux Hard&Software Workshop in Munich, Germany

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Anfang der weitergeleiteten E-Mail:

> Von: "Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller" 
> Datum: 11. September 2013 10:22:23 MESZ
> An: OpenPhoenux Community 
> Betreff: [Community] 5th OpenPhoenux Hard&Software Workshop in Munich, Germany
> Antwort an: OpenPhoenux Community 
> 
> Hi all,
> we are happy to invite to the 5th Open(Phoenux) Hard&Software Workshop in 
> Munich, Germany.
> 
> The idea is a 2 days weekend meeting (quite informal) to discuss about many 
> topics around open hard&software
> like Openmoko, GTA04 and other topics. It is a mix of presentations, 
> tutorials, workshops and we also did have
> some soldering session.
> 
> Since this quite well matches with the ideas and targets of the Openphoenux 
> community, we have renamed
> it slightly this year to be an "OpenPhoenux Workshop".
> 
> For details please look at and pre-register (i.e. vote for a weekend and make 
> proposals for topics):
> 
> http://www.ohsw.org/
> 
> There you can also find the topics, slides and some videos from previous 
> years.
> 
> For this year's workhop, please suggest topics you are interested in (e.g. 
> Neo900, future Kernel development, ...).
> 
> Please note that this page is in German as it is (was) a Germany centric 
> workshop in the past, but
> we are open to make it more international - if we have attendees from 
> non-german speaking countries.
> 
> BR,
> Nikolaus
> 
> ___
> Community mailing list
> commun...@openphoenux.org
> http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo/community
> http://www.openphoenux.org


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Open Hard/Software Workshop in Munich, Germany

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

As in previous years there will be an open hard- and software
development and meeting workshop (http://www.ohsw.de) in
Munich, organized by local freaks coming from Zaurus, Openmoko,
OpenPandora, GTA04, etc.

Well, this time not really *in* Munich but in the town of Garching,
which is just nearby (15km). And which is world famous for some
scientific research facilities (e.g. fastest supercomputer in Europe,
fusion energy research, gravitational wave research, ESO [1]).

Please take a look at the (preliminary) Agenda (in German):

<http://www.ohsw.de/agenda_2012.html>

If you have wishes, suggestions, changes or want to talk
about something or moderate another workshop topic, please
notify the organizers through:



And, please add yourself to the participation list if you
plan to come:

<http://www.doodle.com/d7d3fv9ivfqsytyn>

Please forward to other lists where readers may be interested.

Nikolaus

[1] European Organisation for Astronomical Research in the Southern Hemisphere
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Open Hard and Software Workshop 2012

[Lukas Märdian]

Hello,

I'd like to invite all of you to join the "Open Hard and Software
Workshop 2012". The OHSW [0] is an event  of 2-3 days for people
interested in free, libre and open source software and open hardware,
which takes place at a annualy basis in Munich, Germany. It was started
by people from the Openmoko community and still is dominated by those.

If you're interested in having a talk with like-minded people, getting
to know the latest and greatest about the GTA04 project and/or have fun
by participating in hands-on workshops (like Vala programming, etc.),
you should consider to join us for this years OHSW.

At the moment we're at the preparation stage, were we're looking for a
suitable a date in late 2012 and afterwards start to build up a schedule
for the choosen weekend. If you want to join us, please register
yourself here [1], by voting for a date.

The last years OHSWs covered the following topics:
GTA04
Openmoko
Arduino
Nanonote
OpenPandora
Freerunner Navigation Board
BeagleBoard
SHR
QtMoko
FSO
Milkymist

The primary language will be german. You can find further information at
our homepage [0].


I'm looking forward to meet some of you guys in Munich.

Regards,
  Lukas Märdian


[0] http://www.ohsw.org
[1] http://www.doodle.com/d7d3fv9ivfqsytyn



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free software (FLOSS) for reading EAGLE files

[Timo Juhani Lindfors]

Fox Mulder  writes:
> I read in a forum that it should be possible to import eagle 6.x files
> into the free designspark layout software. I didn't try it myself but
> this is maybe worth a bit more investigation.

http://www.designspark.com/pcb

seems to offer just a windows binary. Can you find source code anywhere?

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Re: [OT] HP contributes webOS software to the open source community

[urodelo]

Here's HP's full schedule for open-sourcing webOS:
January: Enyo 2.0 and Enyo source code; Apache License, Version 2.0
February: Intended project governance model; QT WebKit extensions;  
JavaScript core; UI Enyo widgets
March: Linux standard kernel; Graphics extensions EGL; LevelDB; USB  
extensions

April: Ares 2.0; Enyo 2.1; Node services
July: System manager (“Luna”); System manager bus; Core applications; Enyo  
2.2

August: Build release model; Open webOS Beta
September: Open webOS 1.0

(source:  
http://news.yahoo.com/hps-plan-open-source-webos-whats-taking-long-213125225.html)



urodelo



On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 19:17:31 +0100, Poul Kristensen   
wrote:



In my point of view it is about time HP is contributing to the
opensource community.
For several years and still do  they have only supported M$ especially
in their datacenters. HP even
call you be phone asking you to migrate from open source to "another"
platform (read M$).
Believe me I have been called!
HP uses a lot of opensource in their apps. especially Postgresql, so
it's about time!!

Poul
*Nix Sysadm.

2011/12/12 Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli :
For me SHR or QTMoko should takes the card metaphor idea. It is really  
THE

thing for me + the gesture handling, and both can be taken.



I personally would love to be able to adapt these in Enlightenment.


It's already done in elfe but requires a 24 or 32bit framebuffer.
*)enable elfe and disable illume-home
*)enable compositing
*)bind the key for switching to the card mode
*)press that key

Denis.

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Re: [OT] HP contributes webOS software to the open source community

[Poul Kristensen]

In my point of view it is about time HP is contributing to the
opensource community.
For several years and still do  they have only supported M$ especially
in their datacenters. HP even
call you be phone asking you to migrate from open source to "another"
platform (read M$).
Believe me I have been called!
HP uses a lot of opensource in their apps. especially Postgresql, so
it's about time!!

Poul
*Nix Sysadm.

2011/12/12 Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli :
>>For me SHR or QTMoko should takes the card metaphor idea. It is really THE
>>thing for me + the gesture handling, and both can be taken.
>
>>I personally would love to be able to adapt these in Enlightenment.
>
> It's already done in elfe but requires a 24 or 32bit framebuffer.
> *)enable elfe and disable illume-home
> *)enable compositing
> *)bind the key for switching to the card mode
> *)press that key
>
> Denis.
>
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Re: [OT] HP contributes webOS software to the open source community

[Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli]

>For me SHR or QTMoko should takes the card metaphor idea. It is really THE
>thing for me + the gesture handling, and both can be taken.

>I personally would love to be able to adapt these in Enlightenment.

It's already done in elfe but requires a 24 or 32bit framebuffer.
*)enable elfe and disable illume-home
*)enable compositing
*)bind the key for switching to the card mode
*)press that key

Denis.

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Re: [OT] HP contributes webOS software to the open source community

[Sylvain Paré]

As a webos user (try to help to port SHR on it) I can say it is a really
great/pleasant mobile OS
but with some bad point that could be improved if it is really open-sourced.
For me SHR or QTMoko should takes the card metaphor idea. It is really THE
thing for me + the gesture handling, and both can be taken.

I personally would love to be able to adapt these in Enlightenment.


2011/12/10 Alex Samorukov 

> On 12/10/2011 07:48 PM, urodelo wrote:
>
>> words, HP will keep the control of the development.
>> Do they think they can still get anything ($$) from webOS? If not, why
>> they didn't let everything in the hands of the community?
>> I've never used webos devices, just red articles about Palm devs,
>> comments, etc, but I believe that an open source webos could have a
>> positive impact on openmoko community too. What do you think?
>>
> I think it could be great. We alredy have one OS based on abandoned
> sources (QTMoko) and i am using it as primary OS for OpenMoko. WebOS is
> known to be commercial and stable operating system and it probably should
> work fine on onging GTA04 effort.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OT] HP contributes webOS software to the open source community

[Alex Samorukov]

On 12/10/2011 07:48 PM, urodelo wrote:

words, HP will keep the control of the development.
Do they think they can still get anything ($$) from webOS? If not, why 
they didn't let everything in the hands of the community?
I've never used webos devices, just red articles about Palm devs, 
comments, etc, but I believe that an open source webos could have a 
positive impact on openmoko community too. What do you think?
I think it could be great. We alredy have one OS based on abandoned 
sources (QTMoko) and i am using it as primary OS for OpenMoko. WebOS is 
known to be commercial and stable operating system and it probably 
should work fine on onging GTA04 effort.




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[OT] HP contributes webOS software to the open source community

[urodelo]

On the last Friday HP has announced that webOS will be released to the  
open source community:


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/HP-Contribute-webOS-Open-iw-1537835314.html;_ylt=Aod5jrA9WGrJyILWp79jGsg6cOF_;_ylu=X3oDMTFqaWd2Ymg3BG1pdANBcnRpY2xlIEJvZHkEcG9zAzIEc2VjA01lZGlhQXJ0aWNsZUJvZHlBc3NlbWJseQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTM2M2lscnYwBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDOTQ2YzY1NzktMTcxMC0zNTczLWE3Y2MtM2UzODEzZDY5NzE4BHBzdGNhdAN0ZWNofHdpcmVsZXNzBHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQR0ZXN0Aw--;_ylv=3?x=0

http://developer.palm.com/blog/2011/12/open-source/

At the moment, for what I know, it's not clear under which license the  
code will be released. It seems to me that it was the only way to let  
webOS survive to the doubtful management of HP. However, I wonder if they  
can just give it away getting almost nothing in exchange, considering  
their expensive of 1,2 billions $ for buying it from Palm (one of the  
worst business ever in the IT. for HP, of course). What makes my thinking  
right now, are sentences like "will be going open source with the  
resources of HP behind it"... In other words, HP will keep the control of  
the development.
Do they think they can still get anything ($$) from webOS? If not, why  
they didn't let everything in the hands of the community?
I've never used webos devices, just red articles about Palm devs,  
comments, etc, but I believe that an open source webos could have a  
positive impact on openmoko community too. What do you think?


urodelo
--
用斯斯！


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Re: RTK-GPS with freerunner: decimeter-level accuracy with Free Software

[RANJAN]

The raw-monitor screenshot:
http://imgur.com/Ork4o

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:54 AM, RANJAN  wrote:

> Dear Timo,
>
> This is what I wrote from you code:
>
> 1)Sets NMEA OFF and only UBX on
> 2)Enable-raw
> 3)raw-rate-monitor
>
> *import struct
> import calendar
> import os
> import gobject
> import logging
> import sys
> import socket
> import time
>
> loop = gobject.MainLoop()
>
> def callback(ty, packet):
> print("callback %s" % repr([ty, packet]))
> # setting NMEA OFF AND ONLY UBX
> if ty == "CFG-PRT":
> packet[1]["In_proto_mask"] = 1
> packet[1]["Out_proto_mask"] = 1
> t.send("CFG-PRT", 20, packet)
> elif ty == "ACK-ACK":
> loop.quit()
> return True
>
> #raw rate monitor
> def callback(ty, *args):
> global prev_t
> if ty == "RXM-RAW":
> t = time.time()
> d = t - prev_t
> print("%f %f" % (d, 1.0/d))
> prev_t = t
>
> assert len(sys.argv) == 2
> t = ubx.Parser(callback)
> t.send("CFG-PRT", 0, [])
>
> #enabling raw
>
> t = ubx.Parser(callback)
> t.send("UPD-DOWNL", 8 + 1, {"StartAddr" : 0x6c14, "Flags" : 0, "B0" : 255})
> loop.run()*
>
>
> Please advice.
> Ranjan
>
> On Thu, Nov 1
> 0, 2011 at 12:25 AM, RANJAN  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>> GPSD? You can't use gpsd here. You can just read the raw data from
>>> serial port using cat or netcat.
>>
>>
>> I do this to send NMEA data over serial by listening into the gps daemon.
>>
>> import socket
>> import sys
>> import serial
>> host, port = 'localhost', 2947
>> sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
>> sock.connect((host, port))
>> sock.send('r')
>> file = open("gpstextlog.txt","w")
>> while True:
>> reply = sock.recv(16384)
>> file.write(reply)
>>
>> What shall I do now? Shall I send the UBX data over serial without using
>> the GPS parser or should I send just RAW data after parsing it on the
>> phone? (My last mail tell you more about these doubts).
>>
>> Ranjan
>>
>>
>
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Re: RTK-GPS with freerunner: decimeter-level accuracy with Free Software

[RANJAN]

Dear Timo,

This is what I wrote from you code:

1)Sets NMEA OFF and only UBX on
2)Enable-raw
3)raw-rate-monitor

*import struct
import calendar
import os
import gobject
import logging
import sys
import socket
import time

loop = gobject.MainLoop()

def callback(ty, packet):
print("callback %s" % repr([ty, packet]))
# setting NMEA OFF AND ONLY UBX
if ty == "CFG-PRT":
packet[1]["In_proto_mask"] = 1
packet[1]["Out_proto_mask"] = 1
t.send("CFG-PRT", 20, packet)
elif ty == "ACK-ACK":
loop.quit()
return True

#raw rate monitor
def callback(ty, *args):
global prev_t
if ty == "RXM-RAW":
t = time.time()
d = t - prev_t
print("%f %f" % (d, 1.0/d))
prev_t = t

assert len(sys.argv) == 2
t = ubx.Parser(callback)
t.send("CFG-PRT", 0, [])

#enabling raw
t = ubx.Parser(callback)
t.send("UPD-DOWNL", 8 + 1, {"StartAddr" : 0x6c14, "Flags" : 0, "B0" : 255})
loop.run()*


Please advice.
Ranjan
On Thu, Nov 1
0, 2011 at 12:25 AM, RANJAN  wrote:

>
>
>> GPSD? You can't use gpsd here. You can just read the raw data from
>> serial port using cat or netcat.
>
>
> I do this to send NMEA data over serial by listening into the gps daemon.
>
> import socket
> import sys
> import serial
> host, port = 'localhost', 2947
> sock = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
> sock.connect((host, port))
> sock.send('r')
> file = open("gpstextlog.txt","w")
> while True:
> reply = sock.recv(16384)
> file.write(reply)
>
> What shall I do now? Shall I send the UBX data over serial without using
> the GPS parser or should I send just RAW data after parsing it on the
> phone? (My last mail tell you more about these doubts).
>
> Ranjan
>
>
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Re: [pandaboard] Aw: Re: Open Hard- and Software Workshop 2011 in Germany

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Hi,

Am 04.06.2011 um 19:29 schrieb mr_sven:

> Hi,
>  
> It is a very big range for location decisions. :-(

we simply don't have more options to offer. If you can propose
one and can take care of finding a conference room and
accomodation, please feel free :-)


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Open Hard- and Software Workshop 2011 in Germany

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Dear all,

since the workshops in 2009 and 2010 did find a very positive resonance,
we have started planning for the next Open Hard- and Software
Workshop 2011.

Location and Time is still to be decided and potential participants
can vote.

Details are on the new web site:

www.OHSW.de   or   www.OHSW.org

There is also an archive of the 2009 and 2010 events.

Please note that the meeting language is German so that participants
should be able to follow presentations and workshops in German language.
But presentations can also be given in English.

Topics where we look for authors and presentations are not limited to:

• Openmoko
• GTA04
• Arduino
• Nanonote
• OpenPandora
• Freerunner Navigation Board
• BeagleBoard
• PandaBoard
• SHR
• QtMoko
• FSO

Please subscribe to the mailing list so that you and we can openly discuss:

http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo/open-hard-software-event

Nikolaus
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Reminder: Open Hard&Software Event in Munich (4th/5th December) - we still have room for more topics & speakers

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

We still need some more speakers and proposals for the German Open
Hard&Software Workshop/Event that we plan for December in Munich.

Details can be found here:

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Open_HW_SW_Event/de

Please register to the specific German language mailing list to stay
up to date and discuss the agenda.

Topics are e.g. (depends on participants who organize a session or
have something to contribute):
• Openmoko
• Nanonote
• Freerunner Navigation Board v2
• BeagleBoard
• SHR
• QtMoko
• FSO
• Arduino
• OpenPandora

Note: workshop language will be German
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Re: Voicerecording software needed

[Patryk Benderz]

Dnia 2010-10-06, śro o godzinie 09:49 +0200, Patryk Benderz pisze:
> Dnia 2010-10-05, wto o godzinie 09:36 +0200, Nashvin Gangaram pisze:
> > "Voice Notes" in QtMoko works well.
> Really? Does it start recording automatically when specified phone
> number is calling? I doubt it...
I am sorry, I have somehow misinterpreted subject of this post. My
previous sentence regarded callrecording software, which is apparently
absent in functionality I need. Of course "Voice Notes" are working more
than fina as pure _voice_ recording software. Again my apologies :)

-- 
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Linux Registered User #377521
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Re: Voicerecording software needed

[Patryk Benderz]

Dnia 2010-10-05, wto o godzinie 09:36 +0200, Nashvin Gangaram pisze:
> "Voice Notes" in QtMoko works well.
Really? Does it start recording automatically when specified phone
number is calling? I doubt it...
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Re: Voicerecording software needed

[Alexander Lehner]

On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Thomas Zimmermann wrote:

> Am Dienstag 05 Oktober 2010, 12:10:19 schrieb Alexander Lehner:
>> On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Thomas Zimmermann wrote:
>>> Have you tried to install the version of dictator wich is in the SHR
>>> feed?
>>
>> I did not find it.
>
> It's in the SHR-u feed: http://build.shr-project.org/shr-
> unstable/ipk/armv4t/dictator_0.2-r3.5_armv4t.ipk

Thanks a lot - my mistake. I forgot do do an 'opkg update' after 
flashing...

A.
k

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Re: Voicerecording software needed

[Thomas Zimmermann]

Am Dienstag 05 Oktober 2010, 12:10:19 schrieb Alexander Lehner:
> On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Thomas Zimmermann wrote:
> > Have you tried to install the version of dictator wich is in the SHR
> > feed?
> 
> I did not find it.

It's in the SHR-u feed: http://build.shr-project.org/shr-
unstable/ipk/armv4t/dictator_0.2-r3.5_armv4t.ipk

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Re: Voicerecording software needed

[Alexander Lehner]

On Tue, 5 Oct 2010, Thomas Zimmermann wrote:

> Am Montag 04 Oktober 2010, 19:57:40 schrieb Alexander Lehner:
>> On Mon, 4 Oct 2010, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:
>>>  Dictator worked just fine for me a few months ago. Maybe it's a new
>>>
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> Can you try to explain how or why it doesn't work?
>>
>> I first forgot to mention that I'm using the latest SHR.
>> I installed it the way the wiki page says
>> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dictator
>>
>> My problem seems the wave support for python:
>>
>> o...@om-gta02 /media/card # opkg install -force-depends
>
> Have you tried to install the version of dictator wich is in the SHR feed?

I did not find it.


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Re: Voicerecording software needed

[Thomas Zimmermann]

Am Montag 04 Oktober 2010, 19:57:40 schrieb Alexander Lehner:
> On Mon, 4 Oct 2010, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:
> >  Dictator worked just fine for me a few months ago. Maybe it's a new
> > 
> > problem.
> > 
> > Can you try to explain how or why it doesn't work?
> 
> I first forgot to mention that I'm using the latest SHR.
> I installed it the way the wiki page says
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dictator
> 
> My problem seems the wave support for python:
> 
> o...@om-gta02 /media/card # opkg install -force-depends

Have you tried to install the version of dictator wich is in the SHR feed?

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Re: Voicerecording software needed

[Nashvin Gangaram]

"Voice Notes" in QtMoko works well.

Even though you use SHR, you may want to consider booting QtMoko, from SD
Card for example...



On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 7:57 PM, Alexander Lehner  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 4 Oct 2010, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:
>
> >  Dictator worked just fine for me a few months ago. Maybe it's a new
> > problem.
> >
> > Can you try to explain how or why it doesn't work?
>
> I first forgot to mention that I'm using the latest SHR.
> I installed it the way the wiki page says
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dictator
>
> My problem seems the wave support for python:
>
> o...@om-gta02 /media/card # opkg install -force-depends
> http://www.opkg.org/packages/dictator_0.2_armv4t.ipk
> Downloading http://www.opkg.org/packages/dictator_0.2_armv4t.ipk.
> Installing dictator (0.2) to root...
> Configuring dictator.
> Collected errors:
>  * satisfy_dependencies_for: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for
> dictator:
>  *  python-audio (>= 2.6.1) *
> r...@om-gta02 /media/card # dictator
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/dictator/diktator.py", line 22, in
> 
> import main_gui
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/dictator/main_gui.py", line 28, in
> 
> import playPage
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/dictator/playPage.py", line 25, in
> 
> import alsaaudio, wave
> ImportError: No module named wave
>
>
> Alex.
>
> >
> > Rui
> >
> > Em 04-10-2010 18:43, Alexander Lehner escreveu:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I am looking for a SW to record audio. I found some (dictator,
> voicenote,
> >> monologue), but none of them seems to work properly - the development
> >> seems to have stopped already for a while.
> >>
> >> I try to avoid writing the 1000th script using arecord etc., also it
> >> should be useable by children...
> >>
> >> Thanks for any hint -
> >>
> >> Alex.
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >>
> >
> >
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Re: Voicerecording software needed

[undrwater]

Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:
> 
>   Dictator worked just fine for me a few months ago. Maybe it's a new 
> problem.
> 
> Can you try to explain how or why it doesn't work?
> 
> Rui
> 
> 
> 

For me, saving recordings to the SD card would allow only a small percentage
of a recording (the rest being clipped off).  Tried with the settings in the
app itself, then softlinking the default directory to the SD card.  The
sound also seemed corrupted.  
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://openmoko-public-mailinglists.1958.n2.nabble.com/Voicerecording-software-needed-tp5600120p5600847.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Voicerecording software needed

[Alexander Lehner]

On Mon, 4 Oct 2010, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:

>  Dictator worked just fine for me a few months ago. Maybe it's a new
> problem.
>
> Can you try to explain how or why it doesn't work?

I first forgot to mention that I'm using the latest SHR.
I installed it the way the wiki page says
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Dictator

My problem seems the wave support for python:

o...@om-gta02 /media/card # opkg install -force-depends 
http://www.opkg.org/packages/dictator_0.2_armv4t.ipk
Downloading http://www.opkg.org/packages/dictator_0.2_armv4t.ipk.
Installing dictator (0.2) to root...
Configuring dictator.
Collected errors:
  * satisfy_dependencies_for: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for 
dictator:
  *  python-audio (>= 2.6.1) *
r...@om-gta02 /media/card # dictator
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/dictator/diktator.py", line 22, in 

 import main_gui
   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/dictator/main_gui.py", line 28, in 

 import playPage
   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/dictator/playPage.py", line 25, in 

 import alsaaudio, wave
ImportError: No module named wave


Alex.

>
> Rui
>
> Em 04-10-2010 18:43, Alexander Lehner escreveu:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am looking for a SW to record audio. I found some (dictator, voicenote,
>> monologue), but none of them seems to work properly - the development
>> seems to have stopped already for a while.
>>
>> I try to avoid writing the 1000th script using arecord etc., also it
>> should be useable by children...
>>
>> Thanks for any hint -
>>
>> Alex.
>>
>>
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Re: Voicerecording software needed

[Rui Miguel Silva Seabra]

  Dictator worked just fine for me a few months ago. Maybe it's a new 
problem.

Can you try to explain how or why it doesn't work?

Rui

Em 04-10-2010 18:43, Alexander Lehner escreveu:
> Hi all,
>
> I am looking for a SW to record audio. I found some (dictator, voicenote,
> monologue), but none of them seems to work properly - the development
> seems to have stopped already for a while.
>
> I try to avoid writing the 1000th script using arecord etc., also it
> should be useable by children...
>
> Thanks for any hint -
>
> Alex.
>
>
> ___
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Voicerecording software needed

[Alexander Lehner]

Hi all,

I am looking for a SW to record audio. I found some (dictator, voicenote, 
monologue), but none of them seems to work properly - the development 
seems to have stopped already for a while.

I try to avoid writing the 1000th script using arecord etc., also it 
should be useable by children...

Thanks for any hint -

Alex.


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Re: RTK-GPS with freerunner: decimeter-level accuracy with Free Software

[Timo Juhani Lindfors]

RANJAN  writes:
> So I have been working with this:
> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8266
>
> Can two of these chipsets or one with an FR give a decimeter accuracy? The
> chipset says it supports DGPS. Or one specifically needs a receiver with
> phase and carrier information in the raw data..

My guess is no. You need a receiver that gives you raw pseudorange and
carrier phase measurements.

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Re: RTK-GPS with freerunner: decimeter-level accuracy with Free Software

[RANJAN]

So I have been working with this:
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8266

Can two of these chipsets or one with an FR give a decimeter accuracy? The
chipset says it supports DGPS. Or one specifically needs a receiver with
phase and carrier information in the raw data..

Ranjan

On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 1:52 AM, Timo Juhani Lindfors
wrote:

> RANJAN  writes:
> > So get DGPS does one need to have some sort of subscription or license
> and a
> > suitable firmware on the GPS chipset..?
>
> Yes you need an account to some GPS reference station. If you have two
> receivers then you can just be your own reference station. Being your
> own reference station makes things a lot easier:
>
> 1) You can trust that the service will not be going away.
>
> 2) You can use very short baselines since you can place the reference
> station where you need it.
>
>
>
>
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Re: RTK-GPS with freerunner: decimeter-level accuracy with Free Software

[Timo Juhani Lindfors]

RANJAN  writes:
> So get DGPS does one need to have some sort of subscription or license and a
> suitable firmware on the GPS chipset..?

Yes you need an account to some GPS reference station. If you have two
receivers then you can just be your own reference station. Being your
own reference station makes things a lot easier:

1) You can trust that the service will not be going away.

2) You can use very short baselines since you can place the reference
station where you need it.




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Re: RTK-GPS with freerunner: decimeter-level accuracy with Free Software

[Timo Juhani Lindfors]

RANJAN  writes:
> How fast were you getting the position update using the RTK? Please let us
> know.

I can get up to 25 updates per second.

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Re: RTK-GPS with freerunner: decimeter-level accuracy with Free Software

[RANJAN]

So if I understand it correctly all you need is two freerunners for RTK-GPS
to work? Does one need to have a DGPS subscription?

Ranjan

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:24 PM, RANJAN  wrote:

> How fast were you getting the position update using the RTK? Please let us
> know.
>
> Ranjan
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 5:46 AM, Timo Juhani Lindfors <
> timo.lindf...@iki.fi> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> in Finhack 2010 I gave a presentation on how I
>>
>> 1) modified the freerunner GPS firmware to obtain raw pseudorange and
>> carrier phase measurements,
>>
>> 2) used two openmoko freerunners ("base" at a known location and
>> "rover" that is moving around) with external antennas to capture this
>> data and
>>
>> 3) used rtklib 2.4.0 to calculate RTK position solutions from this raw
>> data.
>>
>> Short summary of results:
>>
>> 1) When both receivers were at a static position it took around 1000
>> seconds from cold start to stabilize. After that the position stayed
>> inside a window of 6 cm in all directions for another 1000 seconds.
>>
>> 2) When the rover was moving I was able to easily trace the shape of
>> an aerial photography marker painted to the ground.
>>
>> For more information see my posts to the foss-gps list starting at
>>
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/foss-gps/2010-July/thread.html
>>
>> and the slides of the presentation at Finhack:
>>
>> http://finhack.org/2010/finhack2010-rtklib-lindfors.odp
>>
>> Finally, if you are still interested, read about rtklib at
>>
>> http://gpspp.sakura.ne.jp/rtklib/rtklib.htm
>>
>>
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>
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Re: RTK-GPS with freerunner: decimeter-level accuracy with Free Software

[RANJAN]

How fast were you getting the position update using the RTK? Please let us
know.

Ranjan

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 5:46 AM, Timo Juhani Lindfors
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> in Finhack 2010 I gave a presentation on how I
>
> 1) modified the freerunner GPS firmware to obtain raw pseudorange and
> carrier phase measurements,
>
> 2) used two openmoko freerunners ("base" at a known location and
> "rover" that is moving around) with external antennas to capture this
> data and
>
> 3) used rtklib 2.4.0 to calculate RTK position solutions from this raw
> data.
>
> Short summary of results:
>
> 1) When both receivers were at a static position it took around 1000
> seconds from cold start to stabilize. After that the position stayed
> inside a window of 6 cm in all directions for another 1000 seconds.
>
> 2) When the rover was moving I was able to easily trace the shape of
> an aerial photography marker painted to the ground.
>
> For more information see my posts to the foss-gps list starting at
>
> http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/foss-gps/2010-July/thread.html
>
> and the slides of the presentation at Finhack:
>
> http://finhack.org/2010/finhack2010-rtklib-lindfors.odp
>
> Finally, if you are still interested, read about rtklib at
>
> http://gpspp.sakura.ne.jp/rtklib/rtklib.htm
>
>
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RTK-GPS with freerunner: decimeter-level accuracy with Free Software

[Timo Juhani Lindfors]

Hi,

in Finhack 2010 I gave a presentation on how I

1) modified the freerunner GPS firmware to obtain raw pseudorange and
carrier phase measurements,

2) used two openmoko freerunners ("base" at a known location and
"rover" that is moving around) with external antennas to capture this
data and

3) used rtklib 2.4.0 to calculate RTK position solutions from this raw
data.

Short summary of results:

1) When both receivers were at a static position it took around 1000
seconds from cold start to stabilize. After that the position stayed
inside a window of 6 cm in all directions for another 1000 seconds.

2) When the rover was moving I was able to easily trace the shape of
an aerial photography marker painted to the ground.

For more information see my posts to the foss-gps list starting at

http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/foss-gps/2010-July/thread.html

and the slides of the presentation at Finhack:

http://finhack.org/2010/finhack2010-rtklib-lindfors.odp

Finally, if you are still interested, read about rtklib at

http://gpspp.sakura.ne.jp/rtklib/rtklib.htm


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Open Hardware/Software Event Munich, Germany in December 2010

[Dr . H . Nikolaus Schaller]

Hi all,
after we have defined the location to be in Munich,
we have received many pre-registrations through Doodle:

http://www.doodle.com/93cu86vm2s69zsxc

Thanks to all who participated!

It is now clear that the date is the 4./5. December (second
Sunday in Advent).


To improve communication between interested participants,
speakers and the organization team, we have decided to open the
mailing list 

http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo/open-hard-software-event

to the public. So if you are interested in participating and contributing,
please subscribe to this list so that we can discuss topics of interest
with you and that you get a notice if anything changes.

Please also look into the archives since topics may already
be discussed.


Currently, we need many more presentations to fill a complete
weekend,  So you can also nominate either yourself or suggest
a topic plus a speaker.

Please note that the event language is German and this mail is 
in English only to inform the many Austrian, German and Swiss
community members who are only reading this list and keep the
others informed what is happening in the world.

Therefore, please don't reply directly but subscribe
to the specific mailing list.

The current plans for the workshop are collected here:

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Open_HW_SW_Event/de

Nikolaus (on behalf of the organization committee)

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Re: Plans for Open Hard&Software Event in Germany

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

The opinion poll is done and we have got confirmation for a nice location in 
Munich.

For details (pre-registration, agenda etc.), please visit the new Wiki page 
(German language).

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Open_HW_SW_Event/de

Nikolaus

Am 07.07.2010 um 09:43 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller:

> The organizer of the opinion poll has told that there are already 27 
> responses.
> 
> Since the poll will be closed tomorrow evening, please hurry up to state your 
> preferences and wishes as described below.
> 
> Everyone from every country is welcome, but language will be German. 
> Therefore I expect the location to be somewhere in Germany, but it may as 
> well be Switzerland or Austria - depending on the outcome of the poll and 
> organization hurdles.
> 
> Results are planned to be posted here, and further planning will be done 
> through the Openmoko Wiki.
> 
> Nikolaus
> 
> Am 02.07.2010 um 10:21 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller:
> 
>> There has begun an initiative on http://freeyourphone.de to activate and 
>> bring together (German speaking) people interested in different open and 
>> independent hard- and software projects in the form of a 
>> workshop/conference/meeting to exchange ideas, knowledge, projects and make 
>> friends. It will take place somewhere in Germany.
>> 
>> Topics we think of are (not an exhaustive list):
>> 
>> * Openmoko
>> * Arduino
>> * Nanonote
>> * OpenPandora
>> * Openmoko Navigation-Board
>> * BeagleBoard
>> * SHR
>> * QtMoko
>> * FSO
>> 
>> Although it may look centered around the Openmoko, it is not limited and 
>> other good projects and topics are very welcome.
>> To give a basis for planning, an online poll has been opened where you can 
>> place your ideas, wishes and proposals:
>> 
>> https://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=KLMDNG_d1f1fd00&UID=3164427512
>> 
>> Please forward to all your friends (and different projects) who may also be 
>> interested.
>> 
>> Nikolaus
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> 
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Re: Plans for Open Hard&Software Event in Germany

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

The organizer of the opinion poll has told that there are already 27 responses.

Since the poll will be closed tomorrow evening, please hurry up to state your 
preferences and wishes as described below.

Everyone from every country is welcome, but language will be German. Therefore 
I expect the location to be somewhere in Germany, but it may as well be 
Switzerland or Austria - depending on the outcome of the poll and organization 
hurdles.

Results are planned to be posted here, and further planning will be done 
through the Openmoko Wiki.

Nikolaus

Am 02.07.2010 um 10:21 schrieb Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller:

> There has begun an initiative on http://freeyourphone.de to activate and 
> bring together (German speaking) people interested in different open and 
> independent hard- and software projects in the form of a 
> workshop/conference/meeting to exchange ideas, knowledge, projects and make 
> friends. It will take place somewhere in Germany.
> 
> Topics we think of are (not an exhaustive list):
> 
> * Openmoko
> * Arduino
> * Nanonote
> * OpenPandora
> * Openmoko Navigation-Board
> * BeagleBoard
> * SHR
> * QtMoko
> * FSO
> 
> Although it may look centered around the Openmoko, it is not limited and 
> other good projects and topics are very welcome.
> To give a basis for planning, an online poll has been opened where you can 
> place your ideas, wishes and proposals:
> 
> https://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=KLMDNG_d1f1fd00&UID=3164427512
> 
> Please forward to all your friends (and different projects) who may also be 
> interested.
> 
> Nikolaus
> ___
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> community@lists.openmoko.org
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Plans for Open Hard&Software Event in Germany

[Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller]

There has begun an initiative on http://freeyourphone.de to activate and bring 
together (German speaking) people interested in different open and independent 
hard- and software projects in the form of a workshop/conference/meeting to 
exchange ideas, knowledge, projects and make friends. It will take place 
somewhere in Germany.

Topics we think of are (not an exhaustive list):

* Openmoko
* Arduino
* Nanonote
* OpenPandora
* Openmoko Navigation-Board
* BeagleBoard
* SHR
* QtMoko
* FSO

Although it may look centered around the Openmoko, it is not limited and other 
good projects and topics are very welcome.
To give a basis for planning, an online poll has been opened where you can 
place your ideas, wishes and proposals:

https://www.kwiksurveys.com/online-survey.php?surveyID=KLMDNG_d1f1fd00&UID=3164427512

Please forward to all your friends (and different projects) who may also be 
interested.

Nikolaus
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Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation

[Stefan Monnier]

> a) the group "free software" is nothing but a combination of an adjective  
> and a substantive, the adjective qualifying the substantive

That might be the case, but in the context of distributing a piece of
software in the context of GNU/Linux, "free software" refers to
the FSF's notion.
Any other use is a misuse,


Stefan


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Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation

[Neil Jerram]

2010/1/5 Viktor Lindberg :

> I don't wish to be rude but you're not actually contradicting anything
> i'm saying afaict

Actually I think I am a bit.  You said "Not just open for anyone to
examine as is the case with Open Source", which sounds to me like you
are saying that people cannot modify or redistribute Open Source code.

But in fact they can, according to every OSI-approved license that
I've heard of.

> thought you are putting the words diffrently to
> emphasis that Open Source would have a better technical solution, i'm
> not sure that is the case, it might be true to some extent yes.

It sounds like you think that I'm supporting the Open Source point of
view.  I'm not; I was just trying to describe the philosophical
difference as clearly as possible.  As it happens, I strongly prefer
the Free Software point of view - and I completely agree with what you
write next:

> But
> when you have virtues and value ethics highly you might have to avoid
> certain methods which you consider evil to some extent.
>
> And frankly to use any GNU/Linux distribution as an example, Free
> Software is not that technically inferior. [...]

> Yes it is true that the Open Source movement likes to focus on the
> technical advantages of Open Source Software, but it's not true to say
> that good technical solution is ignored by the Free Software
> movement.

Well I certainly hope not, given that I've been working (on and off)
on a FSF project for more than 10 years now...  :-)

Best wishes,
  Neil

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Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation

[Viktor Lindberg]

On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 03:39:42PM +, Neil Jerram wrote:
> 2010/1/5 Viktor Lindberg :
> >
> > The Open Source Movement have instead choosen to abandom the ethical
> > principle of freedom and only promote the use of Open Source software
> > that might not be libre (free as in freedom), which is not the same
> > idea as the Free Software movement has. [...] Not just open for anyone to 
> > examine as is the case with Open
> > Source.
> 
> FWIW, that is not my understanding.  I believe that the practical
> requirements of Open Source and Free Software are mostly identical.
> The difference is one of philosophical emphasis: the Open Source
> movement chooses to emphasize practical and tangible benefits from
> using and working on their projects, whereas the Free Software
> movement emphasizes freedom, even if it means working in the short
> term with an inferior product.

I don't wish to be rude but you're not actually contradicting anything
i'm saying afaict thought you are putting the words diffrently to
emphasis that Open Source would have a better technical solution, i'm
not sure that is the case, it might be true to some extent yes. But
when you have virtues and value ethics highly you might have to avoid
certain methods which you consider evil to some extent.

And frankly to use any GNU/Linux distribution as an example, Free
Software is not that technically inferior. In fact most GNU/Linux
systems are have a much higher rate of free software as part of the
system then non free open source software. There are even
distributions that have strict policies agains including non free
software that works perfectly well with perhaps the small exceptions
of some few hardware drivers, in this case you can just avoid buying
hardware from vendors who completle ignores the call for free software.

Not to forget OpenBSD which is 100% Free Software and is renown for
being a really good technical solution.

Yes it is true that the Open Source movement likes to focus on the
technical advantages of Open Source Software, but it's not true to say
that good technical solution is ignored by the Free Software
movement. However the big diffrence lies as you said in the
philosophical part, that ethical apsects of software freedom, thus
somtimes the Free Software movement is sometimes happy with a
suboptimal solution for the sake of moral issues. (in my case i
consider linux a subotpimal technical solution, but it allows for me
to run a fully free OS)

> I hope that's useful to someone (and correct!) ...
> 
> Neil
> 
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Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation

[Pieter Colpaert]

Since this is a mailinglist about openmoko's «free»runner, I think it's
normal to assume everyone on this mailinglist understands the idea
behind the free philosophy.

On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 16:09 +0100, Viktor Lindberg wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 01:21:50PM +0100, arne anka wrote:
> > > the term "free software" was coined in or before 1989, when the GPLv1 was
> > > published by the free software foundation [1].
> > 
> > a) the group "free software" is nothing but a combination of an adjective  
> > and a substantive, the adjective qualifying the substantive
> > b) qualifying a substantive with "free" has been in use long before the  
> > creation of "software"
> > c) "free software" is in no way an unique term or used uniquely by the FSF  
> > -- the sentence you are quoting very clearly proves that by saying
> > ""When we speak of free software"
> > ie, the term is used in a certain sense in a certain context (the GPL) --  
> > but there's no way, the GPL is globally applicable ot the authors are in  
> > any way authorized to rule the use of those very common and widely used  
> > words in a very common grammatical construction.
> >
> 
> Qualifying a substantive with "free" is far older yes, but that is
> not a point, nor is a) a point. c) may be a point but they're really
> just bringing clearity cause the word is fuzzy.
> 
> > 
> > to conclude the discussion: sebastian  would be right _only_ if somewhere  
> > in the discussion all participants had agreed to put the software in  
> > question under the GPL or at least use the GPL's definition.
> > i can't recall, that has ever happend -- insofar any claim to use the  
> > GPL's definition as the solely applicable one is not justified!
> 
> If one is to be used then that one should be used. Ethymologically
> that is right, but also the other usage of the word isn't really
> widely spread nor accepted by many today, it also makes no sense.
> 
> > it is understandable to think in the trems of the GPL but it is not the  
> > only way to think.
> > thus, if any author claims his/her software to be "free software", he/she  
> > is entitled to it -- only if he/she accepted the GPL's definition as the  
> > binding definition of the term, his/her software has to meet the  
> > requirements laid down in the GPL.
> 
> GPL is not the only free license. Furthermore, if you by using the term
> "free software" to describe software that is not free but gratis, you
> have misused the word haven't you?
> 
> > > but arne, whilst i hugely admire your software chops and appreciate the  
> > > work you've done,
> > 
> > i don't know, what exactly you are talking about, but thanks anyway :-)
> > 
> > > i think you're wrong to insist that others join you because you think  
> > > free software means only "free as in beer".
> > 
> > i don't.
> > as i hopefully made clear, i think the meaning of "free" (or "free  
> > software") has to be defined before accusing somebody of misuse
> > and that definition was (and is) still lacking.
> > free might be as in "beer" or "speech" or "nothing to do" (and those of us  
> > coming from eg the former communist parts of europe, will remember that  
> > not only the meaning of "free" might differ but even the extend involved),  
> > but that is not clear beforehand and certainly not implicit, even if most  
> > of us tend to think in therms of the GPL.
> 
> Yes free may be interpreted as free of duties (which i belive is what
> you meant with "nothing to do") however interpreteing it as free of
> charge is still not a very good thing cause it breaks the definition
> of free.
> 
> Because free is such a fuzzy word, mainly due to misusage of the word
>  one can use the words libre or gratis to distinguish them.
> 
> Open source is however not the same as FLOSS or Free/Libre Software.
> The Open Source Movement have instead choosen to abandom the ethical
> principle of freedom and only promote the use of Open Source software
> that might not be libre (free as in freedom), which is not the same
> idea as the Free Software movement has. For the Free Software movement
> the idea of Free/Libre Software is that it should be free as in
> freedom. Not just open for anyone to examine as is the case with Open
> Source.
> 
> And mainly because there is such a large movement of Free Software
> (free as in freedom) a

Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation

[Neil Jerram]

2010/1/5 Viktor Lindberg :
>
> The Open Source Movement have instead choosen to abandom the ethical
> principle of freedom and only promote the use of Open Source software
> that might not be libre (free as in freedom), which is not the same
> idea as the Free Software movement has. [...] Not just open for anyone to 
> examine as is the case with Open
> Source.

FWIW, that is not my understanding.  I believe that the practical
requirements of Open Source and Free Software are mostly identical.
The difference is one of philosophical emphasis: the Open Source
movement chooses to emphasize practical and tangible benefits from
using and working on their projects, whereas the Free Software
movement emphasizes freedom, even if it means working in the short
term with an inferior product.

I hope that's useful to someone (and correct!) ...

Neil

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Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation

[Petr Vanek]

>/end of arrogant rant about language usage.

this is getting too long for me :)

just download the relevant packages which this thread started about
and read license in there, it might help your understanding :))

cheers

Petr


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Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation

[Viktor Lindberg]

On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 01:21:50PM +0100, arne anka wrote:
> > the term "free software" was coined in or before 1989, when the GPLv1 was
> > published by the free software foundation [1].
> 
> a) the group "free software" is nothing but a combination of an adjective  
> and a substantive, the adjective qualifying the substantive
> b) qualifying a substantive with "free" has been in use long before the  
> creation of "software"
> c) "free software" is in no way an unique term or used uniquely by the FSF  
> -- the sentence you are quoting very clearly proves that by saying
> ""When we speak of free software"
> ie, the term is used in a certain sense in a certain context (the GPL) --  
> but there's no way, the GPL is globally applicable ot the authors are in  
> any way authorized to rule the use of those very common and widely used  
> words in a very common grammatical construction.
>

Qualifying a substantive with "free" is far older yes, but that is
not a point, nor is a) a point. c) may be a point but they're really
just bringing clearity cause the word is fuzzy.

> 
> to conclude the discussion: sebastian  would be right _only_ if somewhere  
> in the discussion all participants had agreed to put the software in  
> question under the GPL or at least use the GPL's definition.
> i can't recall, that has ever happend -- insofar any claim to use the  
> GPL's definition as the solely applicable one is not justified!

If one is to be used then that one should be used. Ethymologically
that is right, but also the other usage of the word isn't really
widely spread nor accepted by many today, it also makes no sense.

> it is understandable to think in the trems of the GPL but it is not the  
> only way to think.
> thus, if any author claims his/her software to be "free software", he/she  
> is entitled to it -- only if he/she accepted the GPL's definition as the  
> binding definition of the term, his/her software has to meet the  
> requirements laid down in the GPL.

GPL is not the only free license. Furthermore, if you by using the term
"free software" to describe software that is not free but gratis, you
have misused the word haven't you?

> > but arne, whilst i hugely admire your software chops and appreciate the  
> > work you've done,
> 
> i don't know, what exactly you are talking about, but thanks anyway :-)
> 
> > i think you're wrong to insist that others join you because you think  
> > free software means only "free as in beer".
> 
> i don't.
> as i hopefully made clear, i think the meaning of "free" (or "free  
> software") has to be defined before accusing somebody of misuse
> and that definition was (and is) still lacking.
> free might be as in "beer" or "speech" or "nothing to do" (and those of us  
> coming from eg the former communist parts of europe, will remember that  
> not only the meaning of "free" might differ but even the extend involved),  
> but that is not clear beforehand and certainly not implicit, even if most  
> of us tend to think in therms of the GPL.

Yes free may be interpreted as free of duties (which i belive is what
you meant with "nothing to do") however interpreteing it as free of
charge is still not a very good thing cause it breaks the definition
of free.

Because free is such a fuzzy word, mainly due to misusage of the word
 one can use the words libre or gratis to distinguish them.

Open source is however not the same as FLOSS or Free/Libre Software.
The Open Source Movement have instead choosen to abandom the ethical
principle of freedom and only promote the use of Open Source software
that might not be libre (free as in freedom), which is not the same
idea as the Free Software movement has. For the Free Software movement
the idea of Free/Libre Software is that it should be free as in
freedom. Not just open for anyone to examine as is the case with Open
Source.

And mainly because there is such a large movement of Free Software
(free as in freedom) and the usage of free while in the discussion of
software the usage of the word free in regards to software
is in any case but the term "Freeware" analogous with libre software.

And you know what? Free as used in free of charge often can be
intepreted as you are free to do whatever you want to do with it, not
only that it is gratis. If i have a free soda pop for you, then you
can use it for whatever, even give it away to someone else.. for if i
attached criterias for why it is gratis then would it still be free?

Please clean up your own language usage to avoid things like this, it
is tedious to have to be carefull about the word free is applied only
because people do not consider their own language usage or the
consistancy in their language.

/end of arrogant rant about language usage.

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Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation

[arne anka]

> the term "free software" was coined in or before 1989, when the GPLv1 was
> published by the free software foundation [1].

a) the group "free software" is nothing but a combination of an adjective  
and a substantive, the adjective qualifying the substantive
b) qualifying a substantive with "free" has been in use long before the  
creation of "software"
c) "free software" is in no way an unique term or used uniquely by the FSF  
-- the sentence you are quoting very clearly proves that by saying
""When we speak of free software"
ie, the term is used in a certain sense in a certain context (the GPL) --  
but there's no way, the GPL is globally applicable ot the authors are in  
any way authorized to rule the use of those very common and widely used  
words in a very common grammatical construction.


to conclude the discussion: sebastian  would be right _only_ if somewhere  
in the discussion all participants had agreed to put the software in  
question under the GPL or at least use the GPL's definition.
i can't recall, that has ever happend -- insofar any claim to use the  
GPL's definition as the solely applicable one is not justified!

it is understandable to think in the trems of the GPL but it is not the  
only way to think.
thus, if any author claims his/her software to be "free software", he/she  
is entitled to it -- only if he/she accepted the GPL's definition as the  
binding definition of the term, his/her software has to meet the  
requirements laid down in the GPL.

> but arne, whilst i hugely admire your software chops and appreciate the  
> work you've done,

i don't know, what exactly you are talking about, but thanks anyway :-)

> i think you're wrong to insist that others join you because you think  
> free software means only "free as in beer".

i don't.
as i hopefully made clear, i think the meaning of "free" (or "free  
software") has to be defined before accusing somebody of misuse
and that definition was (and is) still lacking.
free might be as in "beer" or "speech" or "nothing to do" (and those of us  
coming from eg the former communist parts of europe, will remember that  
not only the meaning of "free" might differ but even the extend involved),  
but that is not clear beforehand and certainly not implicit, even if most  
of us tend to think in therms of the GPL.

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Re: freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation

[Tom Yates]

On Tue, 5 Jan 2010, arne anka wrote:

[Sebastian Krzyszkowiak wrote:]

I think you're now confusing free software with freeware. Free
software app has to be open source (but not in opposite way -
 freeware and open source apps not always are free software)


huh? since when and who made that decision? for all i know, the line 
goes between open source and free. open source has not to be free and 
free has not to be open source.


to signify what you have in mind, the term foss was coined. and just the 
need to add "f" signifies that free is not open source per se (and vice 
versa of course).



Remember, in "free software" term free means freedom, not free beer
(as in freeware) :P


that is only _one_ meaning. as human language goes, the very same word 
might have a lot of meanings -- depending on context, speaker, time or 
place.


for the sake of record keeping (and because i think it's an important 
distinction, though i accept that others disagree):


the term "free software" was coined in or before 1989, when the GPLv1 was 
published by the free software foundation [1].  it quite clearly embedded 
the definition of "free" that sebastian refers to when it said:


"When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom, not price. 
Specifically, the General Public License is designed to make sure that you 
have the freedom to give away or sell copies of free software, that you 
receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the 
software or use pieces of it in new free programs; and that you know you 
can do these things. ".


the term "free software" may well have been in use before then, but it was 
set in stone by 1989.


the term "open source" was coined in early 1998 [2], nearly a decade 
later, by a group of people who _inter alia_ objected to the ambiguous 
meaning of "free" in ordinary english.  FLOSS and FOSS were terms coined 
later, off the back of the term "open source".


it's true that english is still ambiguous in its definition of "free", but 
it's not fair to say that "free software" is an ambiguous term.  it has 
been precisely defined for over 20 years, long before the term "open 
source" was coined.  when sebastian speaks of "free software", i think 
he's right to impute the FSF's definition of freedon to it.


please by all means use the terms "open source", FOSS, FLOSS and so on if 
you find they help crystallise your thinking, but arne, whilst i hugely 
admire your software chops and appreciate the work you've done, i think 
you're wrong to insist that others join you because you think free 
software means only "free as in beer".


hopefully i'm not offending anyone by jumping in with a bit of history!


--

  Tom Yates  -  http://www.teaparty.net





[1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-1.0.txt

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source :
"The decision by some people in the free software movement to use the 
label “open source” came out of a strategy session held at Palo Alto, 
California, in reaction to Netscape's January 1998 announcement of a 
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freeware != free software??? Re: Navigation

[arne anka]

> I think you're now confusing free software with freeware. Free
> software app has to be open source (but not in opposite way -
>  freeware and open source apps not always are free software)

huh?
since when and who made that decision?
for all i know, the line goes between open source and free.
open source has not to be free and free has not to be open source.

to signify what you have in mind, the term foss was coined. and just the  
need to add "f" signifies that free is not open source per se (and vice  
versa of course).

> Remember, in "free software" term free means freedom, not free beer
> (as in freeware) :P

that is only _one_ meaning.
as human language goes, the very same word might have a lot of meanings --  
depending on context, speaker, time or place.


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Re: How to publish a piece of software in python?

[Ivo van den Maagdenberg]

2009/11/29 Joseph Reeves :
> An ipk file is just a load of files packaged together. These are
> distributed as you see fit, then opkg "installs" your application by
> extracting the relevant files to the places you want them. All very
> easy (said, literally, as an average Joe) if you use the ipkg-build
> script. More info:
>
> http://www.oesf.org/index.php?title=IPKG_Howto
>
That link truly helped. Currently I have deploy an ipkg package on my
moko, which lands things as intended in /usr/bin and
/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/. Great! Another step further into
public availability of my tinkering :)

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Re: How to publish a piece of software in python?

[Onen]

Hi,

you should have a look at Python distutils.

Then contact the people from the distributions (SHR, Debian, etc...). 
They will create the ipk, deb, etc. based on the distutils file of your 
Python application.

Onen


Ivo van den Maagdenberg wrote:
> I have a rather simple request: what is the procedure to publish a set
> of python script files, into a distributable package for releasing it
> to the opkg feeds?
> 
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain posed me some challanges. After 
> reaching
> "How to create your own project from the sample project" it seems this
> whole method is for a c-programs... this turns me down, sorry.
> 
> So, where is the simple 5-10 step procedure for average joes like me?
> 
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Re: How to publish a piece of software in python?

[Joseph Reeves]

An ipk file is just a load of files packaged together. These are
distributed as you see fit, then opkg "installs" your application by
extracting the relevant files to the places you want them. All very
easy (said, literally, as an average Joe) if you use the ipkg-build
script. More info:

http://www.oesf.org/index.php?title=IPKG_Howto

Of course, a good way to learn is to grab any ipk file, extract it,
and see what it does.

Cheers, Joseph



2009/11/29 Ivo van den Maagdenberg :
> I have a rather simple request: what is the procedure to publish a set
> of python script files, into a distributable package for releasing it
> to the opkg feeds?
>
> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain posed me some challanges. After 
> reaching
> "How to create your own project from the sample project" it seems this
> whole method is for a c-programs... this turns me down, sorry.
>
> So, where is the simple 5-10 step procedure for average joes like me?
>
> ___
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>

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How to publish a piece of software in python?

[Ivo van den Maagdenberg]

I have a rather simple request: what is the procedure to publish a set
of python script files, into a distributable package for releasing it
to the opkg feeds?

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Toolchain posed me some challanges. After reaching
"How to create your own project from the sample project" it seems this
whole method is for a c-programs... this turns me down, sorry.

So, where is the simple 5-10 step procedure for average joes like me?

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Re: [WikiReader] file system questions (was: [wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software)

[Christopher Hall]

On Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:46:57 -0700
Doug Jones  wrote:

> [snip]
> > I like this approach, just remind that as far I see the code and by
> > comments of the devs, the kernel implements the bare just enough to
> > read files, so I think directories are not implemented at all that's
> > why all is on root directory so at least basic hierarchical
> > filesystem has to be implemented before we can do this solution.
> > But directories will easy the organization of pictures too
> 
> 
> Good point.
> 
> So two important questions to be answered, before we get any further 
> into this:
> 
> (1) Has OpenMoko made the policy decision that filenames will be
> limited to 8.3?

I would prefer to keep it simple, the boot loader must run in under 7kB
of internal RAM (actually it uses overlays) so adding more code
here is not so easy.  
> 
> 
> (2) How complicated will it be to implement subdirectory support?
The version of the file system supports directory access, but there
is no support for "chdir"

we are using this:   http://elm-chan.org/fsw/ff/00index_e.html
presently at version: R0.06

so all pathnames have to be absolute, I tried a couple of quick
tests and I could create and read a file in the folder, but I am missing
"mkdir" in forth, (just need to add the interface routine)

It looks like there is a new version with "chdir" support, but
I have not investigated this yet

Hope this answers your questions 


> 
> 
> Note that only one subdirectory level is really needed to implement
> what has already been suggested.
> 
> The current implementation contains 81 files, totaling 4.2GB for the 
> English version.  Nearly all of that is in the big wiki data files 
> (pedia*).  The other files, the ones you get when you make install, 
> comprise 49 files and only 18MB, and most of that is fonts (which are 
> often different for different languages).
> 
> We could adopt a brain-swap approach:  After bootup, the user selects 
> one wiki and then the app switches to the selected subdirectory and 
> considers that to be the root until the next cold boot.  All 81 files 
> for that particular wiki and language would be in that subdirectory, 
> including the big wiki data files and the fonts and the remaining
> files (45 files, only 381KB, and this includes ALL of the
> executables!)  While the single app is running, it would not have to
> access (or even know about) anything outside its current directory,
> so no filesystem calls relating to directory navigation would be
> needed within that particular kernel.elf.  Only the initial wiki
> selection app (we would have to write one) would have to understand
> subdirectories, and only to one level deep.
> 
> 
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Re: [WikiReader] file system questions (was: [wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software)

[EdorFaus]

On Saturday 31 October 2009 02:35:42 Sean Moss-Pultz wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 3:46 AM, Doug Jones  wrote:
> > (1) Has OpenMoko made the policy decision that filenames will be limited
> > to 8.3?
>
> We're using FAT.

I have a usable grasp of how FAT works, so I figured this would be the answer 
while reading this thread, and thought I'd reply with an explanation even 
before I saw your reply. It's not just policy, there are technical reasons.

While I suppose it's really enough to accept that this is how it is, I guess 
people with less of a grasp on how FAT works might need an explanation to 
really understand why this is the only sensible choice, so here goes:

The FAT filesystem inherently supports up to 8.3 filenames, and nothing more. 
This is a limitation of the on-disk format used for directories (including the 
root directory).

Long file name (LFN) support has been implemented on top of this (aka VFAT) in 
some systems, but it is really a hack: it adds extra directory entries that 
are (iirc) marked as being deleted files, and then uses the rest of the data 
(both filename and other fields, like size) for those entries to contain 
characters representing the long filename for the following directory entry 
(the real file). Thus, implementing this is a bit complex and hacky.

This is why DOS (and the DOS mode of W9x) doesn't see the long file names (just 
foobar~1.ext), and might destroy the LFN if you do certain things with the 
files (such as moving to another dir) - they were made before LFNs existed.

Besides, even with just 8.3, that's 11 bytes that can be chosen pretty much 
arbitrarily (only a few values you can't use); for most purposes you don't 
need even that, and can put conventions into place (such as using a specific 
.ext for specific file types).

Personally, I see no reason why the wikireader should need more than 8.3 
filenames, at least for the kernel to know what app to start, or the reader app 
to find its data files.


> > (2) How complicated will it be to implement subdirectory support?
>
> Not a problem. We're going to do something like this when we support
> more languages.

That certainly seems like both the easiest and most sensible approach.


> > Note that only one subdirectory level is really needed to implement what
> > has already been suggested.

This is kind of interesting in a way. The first DOS versions (that supported 
directories at all) only supported one level. :)


> > We could adopt a brain-swap approach:  After bootup, the user selects
> > one wiki and then the app switches to the selected subdirectory and
> > considers that to be the root until the next cold boot.  All 81 files

> > kernel.elf.  Only the initial wiki selection app (we would have to write
> > one) would have to understand subdirectories, and only to one level deep.
>
> Yeah that should work.

I thought of the same, and afaik there's just one small gotcha (not really a 
problem though): subdirectories are not quite the same on-disk as the root 
directory.

The format of the data in the directories is the same, sure. But 
subdirectories are stored the same way files are - in a chain of clusters - 
while the root directory is a specific area on the disk, determined at FS 
creation time. This is why the root directory has a limited number of files it 
can hold, while subdirectories don't.

So, the code reading the directory entries from the disk still has to know if 
it's reading the root dir or a subdirectory, to know where on the disk to load 
the entries from. The code parsing those entries can be the same though.

One way to simplify this could be to *always* keep apps such as the wikireader 
in a subdirectory, never in the root directory, as then only the app selector 
needs to know how to read the root dir.

Of course, if the filesystem reading/parsing code is provided by the kernel, as 
a service to the programs, it could take care of this (rather small) difference 
under the hood, without each app having to deal with it on its own - that 
seems much more sensible to me, since it needs to know how to read FAT anyway.


That could also open up another intriguing possibility... Copying the app 
selector into a subdir that has subdirs of its own. From the POV of any app 
that doesn't understand directories, it doesn't really matter how deep it is, 
and even if it does understand them, it still doesn't matter as long as the 
current directory is considered the root and the .. directory is ignored.

Then, if the selector was implemented so that it could switch root to the .. 
directory and (re)start that app, you could even move up again in the tree...

Well, this all assumes the "root" subdir selection is done by keeping the 
cluster number or some such (as opposed to keeping the path by name).


--
Frode Austvik

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Re: [WikiReader] file system questions (was: [wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software)

[Sean Moss-Pultz]

On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 3:46 AM, Doug Jones  wrote:
> [snip]
>> I like this approach, just remind that as far I see the code and by
>> comments of the devs, the kernel implements the bare just enough to
>> read files, so I think directories are not implemented at all that's
>> why all is on root directory so at least basic hierarchical filesystem
>> has to be implemented before we can do this solution. But directories
>> will easy the organization of pictures too
>
>
> Good point.
>
> So two important questions to be answered, before we get any further
> into this:
>
> (1) Has OpenMoko made the policy decision that filenames will be limited
> to 8.3?

We're using FAT.

> (2) How complicated will it be to implement subdirectory support?

Not a problem. We're going to do something like this when we support
more languages.

> Note that only one subdirectory level is really needed to implement what
> has already been suggested.
>
> The current implementation contains 81 files, totaling 4.2GB for the
> English version.  Nearly all of that is in the big wiki data files
> (pedia*).  The other files, the ones you get when you make install,
> comprise 49 files and only 18MB, and most of that is fonts (which are
> often different for different languages).

Correct.

> We could adopt a brain-swap approach:  After bootup, the user selects
> one wiki and then the app switches to the selected subdirectory and
> considers that to be the root until the next cold boot.  All 81 files
> for that particular wiki and language would be in that subdirectory,
> including the big wiki data files and the fonts and the remaining files
> (45 files, only 381KB, and this includes ALL of the executables!)  While
> the single app is running, it would not have to access (or even know
> about) anything outside its current directory, so no filesystem calls
> relating to directory navigation would be needed within that particular
> kernel.elf.  Only the initial wiki selection app (we would have to write
> one) would have to understand subdirectories, and only to one level deep.

Yeah that should work.

  -Sean

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Re: [wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software

[David Reyes Samblas Martinez]

2009/10/30 Paul Fertser :
> David Reyes Samblas Martinez  writes:
>> 2009/10/30 Paul Fertser :
>>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez  writes:
>>>> *First and prioritary,
>>>> allow have multiple languages on same sdcard
>>>
>>> TBH i can't really understand the desire to have encyclopedic articles
>>> written in other languages.
>>
>> let me gess... your native  language is english isn't it? :P
>
> Wrong :P I learnt English a little bit at school and later at the
> University. I guess it's obvious for a native speaker judging by my
> far from ideal writing skills.
Obvously I'm not a native speaker either due my lack of criteria judging :P
>
>>> It's encyclopedia, not literature after
>>> all! Why not concentrate on correctness and volume instead of
>>> translating from one language to another equivalent (for this
>>> purposes)? It's just happened so that English became an
>>> internationally understood way of communication, what is the benefit
>>> in trying so hard to do something to alter that?
>> as arne has pointed is not just translating each wikipedia in
>> different language is a different wikipedia and local topics as
>> geography and cultural topics are more rich in the local language than
>> in a foreign one.
>
> It's true, i agree. But i tend to look for non-local topics on >90% of
> occassions. Also in my experience looking for local topics is usually
> more rewarding when i do simple googling instead of reading localized
> wikipedia.
yes bun in this in case of wikireader you have no Saint Google to pray
you are offline so the more sources you can store in the card the
better and the first easy step is to include more wikipedia.
>
>> Also you must face a fact... not everyone in a non english country
>> speaks/reads/or even have listen ever  english! yes! it's true believe
>> me , or travel a little more (outside the tourist circuits of course)
>> :)
>
> I think volunteers that write wikipedia articles do that for the
> benefit of the people who want to learn. And those who do can learn
> enough English to understand articles, it'd also have other numerous
> benefits obviously.
I don't know where you are but in Spain we are little far to
generalize this as a fact .English level is far from desiderable in a
european country, things are changing slowly, now english is learned
or at least listened in very early stages in school , my three year
daughter two teachers one of thems is an only english speaking teacher
and she is starting to understand some easy orders and sentences I
hope when this generation grow things will be different here.
>
>> Also comercial reasons the more lenguages can be integrated the more
>> maket you will arrive.
>
> Heh, commercial reasons are something i tend to overlook usually :)
more units sold more users, more resources to OM and his friends to to
still investing in more cool open&free ideas :) as companies we can't
overlook this ;)
>
> --
> Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
> mailto:fercer...@gmail.com
>


David Reyes Samblas Martinez
http://www.tuxbrain.com
Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
Openmoko, Openpandora,  Arduino
Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!

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Re: [wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software

[Paul Fertser]

David Reyes Samblas Martinez  writes:
> 2009/10/30 Paul Fertser :
>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez  writes:
>>> *First and prioritary,
>>> allow have multiple languages on same sdcard
>>
>> TBH i can't really understand the desire to have encyclopedic articles
>> written in other languages.
>
> let me gess... your native  language is english isn't it? :P

Wrong :P I learnt English a little bit at school and later at the
University. I guess it's obvious for a native speaker judging by my
far from ideal writing skills.

>> It's encyclopedia, not literature after
>> all! Why not concentrate on correctness and volume instead of
>> translating from one language to another equivalent (for this
>> purposes)? It's just happened so that English became an
>> internationally understood way of communication, what is the benefit
>> in trying so hard to do something to alter that?
> as arne has pointed is not just translating each wikipedia in
> different language is a different wikipedia and local topics as
> geography and cultural topics are more rich in the local language than
> in a foreign one.

It's true, i agree. But i tend to look for non-local topics on >90% of
occassions. Also in my experience looking for local topics is usually
more rewarding when i do simple googling instead of reading localized
wikipedia.

> Also you must face a fact... not everyone in a non english country
> speaks/reads/or even have listen ever  english! yes! it's true believe
> me , or travel a little more (outside the tourist circuits of course)
> :)

I think volunteers that write wikipedia articles do that for the
benefit of the people who want to learn. And those who do can learn
enough English to understand articles, it'd also have other numerous
benefits obviously.

> Also comercial reasons the more lenguages can be integrated the more
> maket you will arrive.

Heh, commercial reasons are something i tend to overlook usually :)

-- 
Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
mailto:fercer...@gmail.com

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Re: [wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software

[David Reyes Samblas Martinez]

2009/10/30 Paul Fertser :
> Hi,
>
> David Reyes Samblas Martinez  writes:
>> *First and prioritary,
>> allow have multiple languages on same sdcard
>
> TBH i can't really understand the desire to have encyclopedic articles
> written in other languages.
let me gess... your native  language is english isn't it? :P
>It's encyclopedia, not literature after
> all! Why not concentrate on correctness and volume instead of
> translating from one language to another equivalent (for this
> purposes)? It's just happened so that English became an
> internationally understood way of communication, what is the benefit
> in trying so hard to do something to alter that?
as arne has pointed is not just translating each wikipedia in
different language is a different wikipedia and local topics as
geography and cultural topics are more rich in the local language than
in a foreign one.
Also you must face a fact... not everyone in a non english country
speaks/reads/or even have listen ever  english! yes! it's true believe
me , or travel a little more (outside the tourist circuits of course)
:)

Also comercial reasons the more lenguages can be integrated the more
maket you will arrive.
>
> I'd prefer having a good English dictionary integrated instead.
I prefer a good Spanish one :) I gess if RAE (Royal Academy of
Spanish) has an xml to parse :P
>

David Reyes Samblas Martinez
http://www.tuxbrain.com
Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
Openmoko, Openpandora,  Arduino
Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!
> --
> Be free, use free (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html) software!
> mailto:fercer...@gmail.com
>

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Re: [wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software

[arne anka]

> purposes)? It's just happened so that English became an
> internationally understood way of communication, what is the benefit
> in trying so hard to do something to alter that?

- english wikipedia does not cover all topics
- different languages provide different quality of articles
- because there _are_ different versions of wikipedia already

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Re: [wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software

[Paul Fertser]

Hi,

David Reyes Samblas Martinez  writes:
> *First and prioritary,
> allow have multiple languages on same sdcard

TBH i can't really understand the desire to have encyclopedic articles
written in other languages. It's encyclopedia, not literature after
all! Why not concentrate on correctness and volume instead of
translating from one language to another equivalent (for this
purposes)? It's just happened so that English became an
internationally understood way of communication, what is the benefit
in trying so hard to do something to alter that?

I'd prefer having a good English dictionary integrated instead.

-- 
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Re: [WikiReader] file system questions (was: [wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software)

[David Reyes Samblas Martinez]

2009/10/30 Doug Jones :
> [snip]
>> I like this approach, just remind that as far I see the code and by
>> comments of the devs, the kernel implements the bare just enough to
>> read files, so I think directories are not implemented at all that's
>> why all is on root directory so at least basic hierarchical filesystem
>> has to be implemented before we can do this solution. But directories
>> will easy the organization of pictures too
>
>
> Good point.
>
> So two important questions to be answered, before we get any further
> into this:
>
> (1) Has OpenMoko made the policy decision that filenames will be limited
> to 8.3?
>
>
> (2) How complicated will it be to implement subdirectory support?
>
>
>
> Note that only one subdirectory level is really needed to implement what
> has already been suggested.
>
> The current implementation contains 81 files, totaling 4.2GB for the
> English version.  Nearly all of that is in the big wiki data files
> (pedia*).  The other files, the ones you get when you make install,
> comprise 49 files and only 18MB, and most of that is fonts (which are
> often different for different languages).
>
> We could adopt a brain-swap approach:  After bootup, the user selects
> one wiki and then the app switches to the selected subdirectory and
> considers that to be the root until the next cold boot.  All 81 files
> for that particular wiki and language would be in that subdirectory,
> including the big wiki data files and the fonts and the remaining files
> (45 files, only 381KB, and this includes ALL of the executables!)  While
> the single app is running, it would not have to access (or even know
> about) anything outside its current directory, so no filesystem calls
> relating to directory navigation would be needed within that particular
> kernel.elf.  Only the initial wiki selection app (we would have to write
> one) would have to understand subdirectories, and only to one level deep.

mmm this aproach will not complicate too much if after more apps than
a reader are implemented? It would not be better to have a even a one
level dir fs? nevertheless you will implement it for the starting
menu, why not do it directly in the kernel and allow other apps take
advantage of this implementation?
Again talking from the most totally inexperience.
>
>
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David Reyes Samblas Martinez
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[WikiReader] file system questions (was: [wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software)

[Doug Jones]

[snip]
> I like this approach, just remind that as far I see the code and by
> comments of the devs, the kernel implements the bare just enough to
> read files, so I think directories are not implemented at all that's
> why all is on root directory so at least basic hierarchical filesystem
> has to be implemented before we can do this solution. But directories
> will easy the organization of pictures too


Good point.

So two important questions to be answered, before we get any further 
into this:

(1) Has OpenMoko made the policy decision that filenames will be limited 
to 8.3?


(2) How complicated will it be to implement subdirectory support?



Note that only one subdirectory level is really needed to implement what 
has already been suggested.

The current implementation contains 81 files, totaling 4.2GB for the 
English version.  Nearly all of that is in the big wiki data files 
(pedia*).  The other files, the ones you get when you make install, 
comprise 49 files and only 18MB, and most of that is fonts (which are 
often different for different languages).

We could adopt a brain-swap approach:  After bootup, the user selects 
one wiki and then the app switches to the selected subdirectory and 
considers that to be the root until the next cold boot.  All 81 files 
for that particular wiki and language would be in that subdirectory, 
including the big wiki data files and the fonts and the remaining files 
(45 files, only 381KB, and this includes ALL of the executables!)  While 
the single app is running, it would not have to access (or even know 
about) anything outside its current directory, so no filesystem calls 
relating to directory navigation would be needed within that particular 
kernel.elf.  Only the initial wiki selection app (we would have to write 
one) would have to understand subdirectories, and only to one level deep.


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Re: [wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software

[Christophe M]

>
> .. but I initially expected Wikireader to have GPS
> onboard and simply tell you about your surroundings.
> There are 1000s of GPS annotated entries on
> Wikipedia ? I see all those 'W' links in Google maps.
> A perfect travelguide. WikiTravelMate.
>
>
Hi !
I'm starting a project like this next week for the freerunner ;)
Stay tuned ;)


>
> $2c,
> *-pike
>
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-- 
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http://www.qalee.org
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Re: [wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software

[David Reyes Samblas Martinez]

2009/10/30 Doug Jones :
> Doug Jones wrote:
>> David Reyes Samblas Martinez wrote:
>>> Though on how the evolution of the soft of the wikireader must be, I
>>> have oredered the sugesstions by impact on functionality/easy to
>>> implement ratio, of course under a totally  non-hardcore developer and
>>> only-one-week user criteria.
>>> *First and prioritary,
>>> allow have multiple languages on same sdcard, I think a one easy
>>> approach is to have a selection menu on boot with the available
>>> languages on the sdcard (looking at the sufix of the pedia files
>>> "pedia_es", "pedia_de", "pedia_pt". ) present a bare text menu
>>> with the items, select,  and then operate as usual.
>>> More complex things like changing of language inside a topic or
>>> include non wikipedia content to  that menu using a config file can be
>>> implemented later on.
>>
>>
>> I notice that the current implementation fits within the old 8.3 DOS
>> file naming scheme (except that both upper case and lower case is used).
>>   Is this done to avoid the FAT patent issue?
>>
>> If so, then we need to devise a naming scheme that fits within that...
>> perhaps something like
>>
>> llnn.ext
>>
>>
>> where:
>>
>>  indicates which wiki
>>
>> ll   indicates which language
>>
>> nn   indicates which alphabetical section  (I assume the articles are
>> grouped according to first letter, 00 through 26 for A-Z and other
>> characters...   or is this wrong?)
>>
>>
>> Other alphabets have different numbers of letters, so do we sometimes
>> need more than two digits?
>>
>> And some languages don't use alphabets...   has somebody already worked
>> out a general scheme for breaking up the files, and is this documented
>> somewhere?
>>
>>
>> We have to break up the data into chunks somehow.  FAT has a 4GB file
>> limit, as I recall...
>
>
> Actually it seems a bit more complicated than this.
>
> The language designations used within Wikipedia are not just limited to
> two characters  --  these aren't just country codes.
>
> Most languages there are designated by a two-letter code, but some are
> three letters, and go all the way up to "simple" for simple English and
> "cbk-zam" for Chavacano de Zamboanga.
>
> Clearly we should be aiming for a system that can accommodate all
> available versions of Wikipedia, as well as those yet to be implemented.
>
>
> The current implementation uses a flat directory structure, with no
> subdirectories.  Is there some compelling reason for this?
>
> We could put each separate wiki into its own directory.  This would make
> it much easier to fit everything within the 8.3 naming scheme (assuming
> that this scheme really is a requirement).  It would also make it easier
> for the user to copy a new wiki onto the card;  they just have to copy
> one folder, instead of keeping track of dozens of files.
>
> This would also eliminate the need for a config file at the root that
> would need to be updated as wikis are added or removed.  Instead, the
> boot code scans the root, finds all the directories, looks inside each
> one for a short metadata file that contains the description for that
> wiki (in the appropriate language of course), and then uses that data to
> build the first menu that the user sees.
>
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>
I like this approach, just remind that as far I see the code and by
comments of the devs, the kernel implements the bare just enough to
read files, so I think directories are not implemented at all that's
why all is on root directory so at least basic hierarchical filesystem
has to be implemented before we can do this solution. But directories
will easy the organization of pictures too

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Re: [wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software

[Doug Jones]

Doug Jones wrote:
> David Reyes Samblas Martinez wrote:
>> Though on how the evolution of the soft of the wikireader must be, I
>> have oredered the sugesstions by impact on functionality/easy to
>> implement ratio, of course under a totally  non-hardcore developer and
>> only-one-week user criteria.
>> *First and prioritary,
>> allow have multiple languages on same sdcard, I think a one easy
>> approach is to have a selection menu on boot with the available
>> languages on the sdcard (looking at the sufix of the pedia files
>> "pedia_es", "pedia_de", "pedia_pt". ) present a bare text menu
>> with the items, select,  and then operate as usual.
>> More complex things like changing of language inside a topic or
>> include non wikipedia content to  that menu using a config file can be
>> implemented later on.
> 
> 
> I notice that the current implementation fits within the old 8.3 DOS 
> file naming scheme (except that both upper case and lower case is used). 
>   Is this done to avoid the FAT patent issue?
> 
> If so, then we need to devise a naming scheme that fits within that... 
> perhaps something like
> 
> llnn.ext
> 
> 
> where:
> 
>  indicates which wiki
> 
> ll   indicates which language
> 
> nn   indicates which alphabetical section  (I assume the articles are 
> grouped according to first letter, 00 through 26 for A-Z and other 
> characters...   or is this wrong?)
> 
> 
> Other alphabets have different numbers of letters, so do we sometimes 
> need more than two digits?
> 
> And some languages don't use alphabets...   has somebody already worked 
> out a general scheme for breaking up the files, and is this documented 
> somewhere?
> 
> 
> We have to break up the data into chunks somehow.  FAT has a 4GB file 
> limit, as I recall...


Actually it seems a bit more complicated than this.

The language designations used within Wikipedia are not just limited to 
two characters  --  these aren't just country codes.

Most languages there are designated by a two-letter code, but some are 
three letters, and go all the way up to "simple" for simple English and 
"cbk-zam" for Chavacano de Zamboanga.

Clearly we should be aiming for a system that can accommodate all 
available versions of Wikipedia, as well as those yet to be implemented.


The current implementation uses a flat directory structure, with no 
subdirectories.  Is there some compelling reason for this?

We could put each separate wiki into its own directory.  This would make 
it much easier to fit everything within the 8.3 naming scheme (assuming 
that this scheme really is a requirement).  It would also make it easier 
for the user to copy a new wiki onto the card;  they just have to copy 
one folder, instead of keeping track of dozens of files.

This would also eliminate the need for a config file at the root that 
would need to be updated as wikis are added or removed.  Instead, the 
boot code scans the root, finds all the directories, looks inside each 
one for a short metadata file that contains the description for that 
wiki (in the appropriate language of course), and then uses that data to 
build the first menu that the user sees.

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Re: [wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software

[pike]

Hi

.. I'm not sure if it has been mentioned - didnt follow
all the buzz on the list ..

.. and it's not a software update ..

.. but I initially expected Wikireader to have GPS
onboard and simply tell you about your surroundings.
There are 1000s of GPS annotated entries on
Wikipedia ? I see all those 'W' links in Google maps.
A perfect travelguide. WikiTravelMate.


$2c,
*-pike

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Re: [wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software

[Doug Jones]

David Reyes Samblas Martinez wrote:
> Though on how the evolution of the soft of the wikireader must be, I
> have oredered the sugesstions by impact on functionality/easy to
> implement ratio, of course under a totally  non-hardcore developer and
> only-one-week user criteria.
> *First and prioritary,
> allow have multiple languages on same sdcard, I think a one easy
> approach is to have a selection menu on boot with the available
> languages on the sdcard (looking at the sufix of the pedia files
> "pedia_es", "pedia_de", "pedia_pt". ) present a bare text menu
> with the items, select,  and then operate as usual.
> More complex things like changing of language inside a topic or
> include non wikipedia content to  that menu using a config file can be
> implemented later on.


I notice that the current implementation fits within the old 8.3 DOS 
file naming scheme (except that both upper case and lower case is used). 
  Is this done to avoid the FAT patent issue?

If so, then we need to devise a naming scheme that fits within that... 
perhaps something like

llnn.ext


where:

 indicates which wiki

ll   indicates which language

nn   indicates which alphabetical section  (I assume the articles are 
grouped according to first letter, 00 through 26 for A-Z and other 
characters...   or is this wrong?)


Other alphabets have different numbers of letters, so do we sometimes 
need more than two digits?

And some languages don't use alphabets...   has somebody already worked 
out a general scheme for breaking up the files, and is this documented 
somewhere?


We have to break up the data into chunks somehow.  FAT has a 4GB file 
limit, as I recall...

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[wikireader]Suggestions for next steps on software

[David Reyes Samblas Martinez]

Though on how the evolution of the soft of the wikireader must be, I
have oredered the sugesstions by impact on functionality/easy to
implement ratio, of course under a totally  non-hardcore developer and
only-one-week user criteria.
*First and prioritary,
allow have multiple languages on same sdcard, I think a one easy
approach is to have a selection menu on boot with the available
languages on the sdcard (looking at the sufix of the pedia files
"pedia_es", "pedia_de", "pedia_pt". ) present a bare text menu
with the items, select,  and then operate as usual.
More complex things like changing of language inside a topic or
include non wikipedia content to  that menu using a config file can be
implemented later on.

*Second
adaptation of the keyboard for internationalization, I suggest ,as
quick fix, the introduction of a third keyboard screen with the
special chars like  ñ, ç, ... add here the common chars on  other
european languages, to simplify not include accentuated vocals and
consonants , when searching a word you will select the correct
accentuated one on the list. Cirilic, chinese, japanese, arabic and
other completly diferent alphabets is a full redo of the keyboard,
there are important to have in  but I don't describe his
implementation and be selectable as quickfix...

*Third
Use long press of the buttons search, and history to:
long press on search = launch other apps, present a menu (loaded from
a config file to launch apps like  the calculator(calc.elf file
included in the sdcard)and the multiple apps people will start to
develop on this platform, (note taking app will be helpful for
example)

I think change the behavior of the history short press as back is more
useful than actual one, and on long Press present a menu to
back/forward/view history/change content menu

Random is funny as it is please dont touch :)

*Forth:
Include images , I know  this will increase a lot both the space on
sdcard and cpu load of the device, but they can be implemented as
link(pic) in the main content and once clicked open them at full
screen , and pressing the history(back) button and return to content
, same aproach with formulas. zoom in/out maybe aviable from a long
press on the screen with a pop up menu, a fixed scales and max image
size has to be defined on what the device can handle. of course this
image strored in the sd are b/w bitmaps, the host is the responsable
of make the render of the original ones to this format. Maybe formulas
can be rendered on the device if they are stored in latex on the
wikipedia and the Wikireade can handle this or has to be redered as
images on the host it it can't be done.

What do you think about?



David Reyes Samblas Martinez
http://www.tuxbrain.com
Open ultraportable & embedded solutions
Openmoko, Openpandora,  Arduino
Hey, watch out!!! There's a linux in your pocket!!!

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Re: Nokia N900 (charging battery not possible with free software yet)

[Timo Juhani Lindfors]

Rui Miguel Silva Seabra  writes:
> No, it's firmware running on their chips. If it was the driver than the
> following command would result in ONE instead of ZERO :)

You can have drivers in userland too. For example I understood that
you can't charge the N900 battery with free software.

http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/BME_Protocol

describes some reverse-engineering efforts on that one.

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[android] Navit (vector-based gps navigation software) builds available

[KaZeR]

Hello community,

The first builds of navit for android are now available here :
http://download.navit-project.org/navit/android/

Comments, bug reports and suggestions are welcome, either here or via
navit's tracker : http://trac.navit-project.org

Enjoy!
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/android-Navit-vector-based-gps-navigation-software-builds-available-tp3486430p3486430.html
Sent from the Openmoko Community mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Is there any VoIP/Skype software on SHR?

[Michele Brocco]

I used to have linphone in OM2008 and it worked quite well.  On SHR-U
linphone and linphone-3 (better gui) also work. I guess u can find the
package urls in the mailing list. However, I have still troubles in
SHR with the alsa state files. voip-handset statefile does not work
correctly in linphone. I heard this is not the case for OM2009.
Haven't found a solution so far


On 8/12/09, Yogiz  wrote:
> Haven't tried it myself but I heard that linphone worked quite well.
>  Try and see if it's in the repo.
>
>
>  On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:13:35 +0800
>  "Daniel.Li"  wrote:
>
>  > On Tue, 2009-08-11 at 18:04 -0500, The Digital Pioneer wrote:
>  > > Well, I can tell you that there is no Skype software for FR. Skype
>  > > is closed source, and the protocol is closed as well, so no-one can
>  > > compile it for ARM processors and no-one can make a 3rd party
>  > > client.
>  > >
>  > > Aside from that, you can use whatever VOIP software you want, but
>  > > you'll probably have to build it for FR yourself.
>  >
>  > Is there VoIP software avaliable for SHR, which doesn't need any
>  > compile/install actions, simply opkg install ?
>
>
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Re: Is there any VoIP/Skype software on SHR?

[Yogiz]

Haven't tried it myself but I heard that linphone worked quite well.
Try and see if it's in the repo.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 07:13:35 +0800
"Daniel.Li"  wrote:

> On Tue, 2009-08-11 at 18:04 -0500, The Digital Pioneer wrote:
> > Well, I can tell you that there is no Skype software for FR. Skype
> > is closed source, and the protocol is closed as well, so no-one can
> > compile it for ARM processors and no-one can make a 3rd party
> > client.
> > 
> > Aside from that, you can use whatever VOIP software you want, but
> > you'll probably have to build it for FR yourself.
> 
> Is there VoIP software avaliable for SHR, which doesn't need any
> compile/install actions, simply opkg install ?

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Re: Is there any VoIP/Skype software on SHR?

[Daniel.Li]

On Tue, 2009-08-11 at 18:04 -0500, The Digital Pioneer wrote:
> Well, I can tell you that there is no Skype software for FR. Skype is
> closed source, and the protocol is closed as well, so no-one can
> compile it for ARM processors and no-one can make a 3rd party client.
> 
> Aside from that, you can use whatever VOIP software you want, but
> you'll probably have to build it for FR yourself.

Is there VoIP software avaliable for SHR, which doesn't need any
compile/install actions, simply opkg install ?
-- 
Daniel.Li 
PALFocus (http://palfocus.oicp.net)



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Re: Is there any VoIP/Skype software on SHR?

[The Digital Pioneer]

Well, I can tell you that there is no Skype software for FR. Skype is closed
source, and the protocol is closed as well, so no-one can compile it for ARM
processors and no-one can make a 3rd party client.

Aside from that, you can use whatever VOIP software you want, but you'll
probably have to build it for FR yourself.
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Is there any VoIP/Skype software on SHR?

[Daniel.Li]

Dear All,

Is there any VoIP/Skype software on SHR?

If there is, a link will do :)

-- 
Daniel.Li 
PALFocus (http://palfocus.oicp.net)



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Re: Re: [All?] Dictator - the most undemocratic recording and dictation software ever

[Francesco de Virgilio]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

While OSM2go isn't - today - working as expeted on FreeRunner, we have
Mumpot that, in the last version, is quite perfect. The only lack of
Mumpot, compared with OSM2go are presets (JOSM like tagging menus) and
the satellite overlay (wich, I think, for street-mapping, it isn't
useful). On the other hand, Mumpot is optimized for FreeRunner, and
the map is fullscreen.

However, I think it'll be great to have both ported perfectly on
FreeRunner, so... long life to OSM2go "porters"!

2009/5/8
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5)

iEYEARECAAYFAko96awACgkQRi2TsGSC4Fa1VwCgl6TLryXdBhAQyQWgE5yc29Un
t0EAmgLwjjUzGNh8CSt3n5TFLCQ503Yv
=BdFQ
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

>
> On May 8, 2009 8:48am, Andreas Kemnade  wrote:
> > > The only thing I notice, in our (community) work is that today we have a
> > > LOT of applications doing gpx recording (going with memory, I remember
> > > TangoGPS, BikeAtor, Navit, probably also GPS Sight and Mumpot). Some
> > > applications have a database to insert POIs (like TangoGPS), but still
> > > doesn't exists something integrating all the features we
> > > (OSMmappers/surveyors) need.
>
> OSM2go would cover most people requirements. As far as I can tell 
> (http://comiles.eu/~natanael/wordpress/tag/osm2go), it isn't quite there yet 
> on the FR.
>
> Regards
>
> Jeff

--
Francesco de Virgilio
*Ubuntu-it Member and Wiki Editor*
  mailto:frad...@ubuntu-it.org
  http://wiki.ubuntu-it.org/FrancescoDeVirgilio
*Wikimedia projects contributor*
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fradeve11
*OpenStreetMap Mapper*
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Fradeve11
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Re: Re: [All?] Dictator - the most undemocratic recording and dictation software ever

[undrwater]

Just a quick post to note that on 0.2-r2, recording from mic chops about half
of my recording.  If I record 10 seconds, about  plays back, if I record 5,
about 2.5 plays back.  You get the point. :)

Otherwise, I love this app!
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