[css-d] Image transparency overlay

[swilly]

I am having trouble having my images light up on mouseovers. I am
currently using the css3 opacity property, but I was wondering if anyone
had a more universal solution. You may view the page at:
http://www.swilly.tk/?page=videos

Thanks,
swilly

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[css-d] Image transparency overlay

[swilly]

I am having trouble having my images light up on mouseovers. I am
currently using the css3 opacity property, but I was wondering if anyone
had a more universal solution. You may view the page at:
http://www.swilly.tk/?page=videos

Thanks,
swilly

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[css-d] Image transparency overlay

[swilly]

I am having trouble getting my images to light up when you move the mouse
over them. I am currently using the opacity css3 option to achieve this,
but I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for a more universal
method. You may view the page over at: http://swilly.tk/?page=videos

swilly

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Re: [css-d] IE Mac float problem

[Roger Roelofs]

Julian,

On Feb 16, 2006, at 8:54 PM, Julian Voelcker wrote:

> In IE(mac) the main layers aren't floating properly, resulting in them
> appearing staggered on the page.
>
> The site is at:
> http://asummerhouse.tvw.net

In ie/mac floats without widths take up 100% of available width. Give a 
width to #hdrleft and things will likely work better.
-- 
Roger Roelofs
"Remember, if you’re headed in the wrong direction,
God allows U-turns!"
  ~Allison Gappa Bottke
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Re: [css-d] Please test: Mac Safari FOUC test case

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Feb 17, 2006, at 9:57 AM, Christian Montoya wrote:

> Someone reading my weblog said that they might have fixed FOUC in
> Safari 1.x. Please have a look at the test case he put together and
> let me know if it's true:
>
> http://blatella.zoic.be/nl/diensten/vogelweringen/FOUC- 
> Safari_workaround.php

On a very fast internet connection (100Mbps fiber):
there is still a very brief flash before the page is rendered on the  
no-fouc page.
It is much less obvious then on the fouc page.
Tested with the latest Safari release build (2.03) on OS X 10.4.5.

Note that the problem is not present on nightly WebKit builds.

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh





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Re: [css-d] Allow overflow for height only

[David Pratt]

Hi Neill. This helped and I've got things work out. Many thanks.

Regards,
David

Neill Harmer wrote:
> 
> Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Donec sagittis
> pede at ligula. Mauris iaculis posuere ligula. Mauris in eros ut enim
> molestie auctor. Sed vehicula tristique lacus. Etiam dictum sagittis magna.
> Aenean pellentesque. Mauris tortor. Nunc ac lorem. Maecenas interdum semper
> risus. Fusce vel risus eu mi sodales sagittis. Cras malesuada risus.
> Suspendisse eros ante, semper quis, egestas ac, pretium at, est. Vestibulum
> nec dui.
> 
> 
> That will get you the basics. The overflow: auto, will make the div scroll
> if there is more text than the height will allow. If the height of the items
> inside that container does not reach the specified height, it will not show
> scroll bars. 
> 
> Hope this helps. 
>  
> Neill Harmer
> www.neillharmer.com
>  
> "Innovation distinguishes between being a leader and a follower."
>  
>  
>  
> 
>  
>  
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Pratt
> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 2:16 PM
> To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
> Subject: [css-d] Allow overflow for height only
> 
> I want overflow to allow scroll bar to appear if content is longer but I
> want content to be clipped and no scroll bar if screen is made narrower. 
> Can someone advise on how to accomplish this. Many thanks.
> 
> David
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> 
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Re: [css-d] IE problem with rounded boxes and bottom margin...

[Holly Bergevin]

From: Thomas -Balu- Walter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>> http://www.b-a-l-u.de/PG/stuff/border_problem/

>> The problematic area is the #f00 one. Does anyone have a hint how to
>> avoid that or what causes it? 

IE6 needs "layout" [1] on the containing div. Probably the easiest thing to do, 
at least for your example, it to add {position: relative;} on the div. 

.sidebox { /* top left corner */
background: #f00 url(images/border_tl_c9d3de.gif) no-repeat left top;
margin-bottom: 20px;
position: relative; /* < */
}

If this causes problems within your overall layout, you may need some other 
method of invoking layout and hiding it from other browsers, such as the holly 
hack.

I hope that helps,

~holly 

[1] http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html 
 
   
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[css-d] IE Mac float problem

[Julian Voelcker]

Hi,

I'm battling with a design that seems to work OK in most browsers on PC 
and Mac, Except in IE.

In IE the main layers aren't floating properly, resulting in them 
appearing staggered on the page.

If you have a moment, any thoughts/ideas that might help resolve this 
would be appreciated.

The site is at:
http://asummerhouse.tvw.net

The main layout is handled by:
http://asummerhouse.tvw.net/styles/mainlayout.css

And the main styling is handled by:
http://asummerhouse.tvw.net/styles/mainstyles.css

Thanks in advance.
-- 
Cheers,

Julian Voelcker
Cirencester, United Kingdom


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Re: [css-d] identify unused CSS

[Richard Grevers]

On 2/17/06, Jursa, Jan (init) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> i wonder whether there is a tool (firefox-extension? :-) which could
> tell what CSS isn't used from a given stylesheet file.
>
ISTR that is one of Topstyle Pro's many functions
--
Richard Grevers, New Plymouth, New Zealand
Hat 1: Development Engineer, Webfarm Ltd.
Hat 2: Dramatic Design www.dramatic.co.nz
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Re: [css-d] Evil CMS generated IDs

[Nick Fitzsimons]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Is there anyway to use CMS-generated IDs with CSS? For example, 
> Weblogic gives me something like: 
> 
> wlw-select_key:{actionForm.prepaymentPenaltyTypeI} .
> 
> Unfortunately, setting the IDs myself isn't an option. Weblogic overwrites 
> them. So, short of writing a JavaScript to take all these CMS IDs and
> assigning valid ones, is there anything else I can do?
> 

The HTML 4.01 specification [1] states:

'ID and NAME tokens must begin with a letter ([A-Za-z]) and may be 
followed by any number of letters, digits ([0-9]), hyphens ("-"), 
underscores ("_"), colons (":"), and periods (".").'

Therefore, Weblogic is, for you, generating markup that breaches the W3C 
specs by including the characters "{" and "}" in id attributes.

If this is coming out of Weblogic because of the way somebody within 
your organization has set the system up then raise the matter internally 
(i.e. beat them about the head with the cluesheet, or escalate it as an 
internal bug report); if, OTOH, this is something Weblogic does of its 
own volition, castigate BEA by raising it as a bug report with them.

Given that the product page at BEA [2] states that, with Weblogic, they 
"enable enterprises to achieve faster time-to-value for critical 
business applications using *open standards*" (my emphasis), I think you 
may find the culprit in-house and, given that standards compliance may 
have been part of the business case for buying in the Weblogic system, 
you could have a solid case aginst them for having broken something your 
organisation has paid a lot of money for through their own cluelessness 
(a word which in this context is semantically equivalent to incompetence).

FWIW, I was mildly freaked out a few months ago when I first came across 
a CMS that generated IDs with colons (:) in them, until I looked at [1] 
and found they _were_ OK. The braces ({}) you are getting there are as 
wrong as wrong can be.

(I just hope people's email clients don't mistake the (bracketed) stuff 
in the previous paragraph for smileys; the images displayed could be 
horrendous...)

[1] 
[2] 


HTH,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/


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[css-d] Please test: Mac Safari FOUC test case

[Christian Montoya]

Hello Mac-Users,

Someone reading my weblog said that they might have fixed FOUC in
Safari 1.x. Please have a look at the test case he put together and
let me know if it's true:

http://blatella.zoic.be/nl/diensten/vogelweringen/FOUC-Safari_workaround.php

Thanks all.

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com
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Re: [css-d] IE problem with rounded boxes and bottom margin...

[Thomas -Balu- Walter]

No one?

Is it too simple or too complicated? :-/

On Wed, Feb 15, 2006 at 10:50:44PM +0100, Thomas -Balu- Walter wrote:
> I am having a problem with weird IE behaviour (guessed that, huh?) when
> playing with rounded corners. 
> 
> http://www.b-a-l-u.de/PG/stuff/border_problem/
>
[...]
> 
> The problematic area is the #f00 one. Does anyone have a hint how to
> avoid that or what causes it? 

Why does the IE expand the div and does not put a margin below, but
inside?

 Balu
PS: The #f00 one at the bottom of course
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Re: [css-d] fixed background image hidden on scroll

[francky]

cj wrote:

>>>assuming i rework my whole theme framework (joy) to accomodate moving
>>>backgrounds around, is there any way i can get:
>>>
>>>- a fixed globe at the bottom of the viewport (preferably above the
>>>footer if the footer is showing) without putting the globe in the
>>>footer (because other themes use the footer and i can't really change
>>>that one part)
>>>
>>>- a max width of 1,000px with a color on the outside and the globe
>>>showing inside of the content area instead of on top of or behind the
>>>outside coloring (which it's doing now at larger browser sizes).
>>>
>>>- footer sticks at the bottom (like it does now).  i know
>>>.master-form's specified height ruins some fixes for the globe, but i
>>>don't know of another way that would work for the footer.
>>>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>>>  
>>>
>[... some more communication ...]
>
>>francky:
>>... the globe isn't cut off at the right side anymore! See adapted testpage
>>.
>>
>>
>the globe does finally fit there.  :)  for some reason, when i first
>view the page in 1024x768 and then maximize to my full resolution of
>1600x1200 the footer ends at the bottom of the content, leaving a
>large white space underneath it, and the globe hides behind the footer
>and gets cut off underneath the footer.  the footer also streches
>across the entire page for me.
>
>[resized way down, so it looks really bad]
>http://sltclan.com/images/cj/globe-cut.png
>  
>
Yes, I see. That's not so good.
So I went on freakin': jigsawing new css in the testpage, learning from 
trial and error ;-) .
Now in theory the width was o.k., I could have a better look at the 
possible height-variants. Developing new versions ... for the recycle 
bin. But after all, all of a sudden, some light in darkness.
See new testpage 
.
Now the footer is real footer, everything fixed position on screen, and 
soft scrolling through the content. From 640x480 (!) to 1280x1024 
anyway, and font sizing allowed. Both validators happy. Me too.

Yippy..., eh, ho! This was only Firefox.
You guess: IE a mess...

Some more trials, errors and filling reclycling bin: found a workaround 
as in this testpage 
 
(for IE, Opera and Netscape6). - Validators still happy.

It is all rough material: inline styles, not cleaned up, and not 
combined in an universal stylesheet with appriopriate hacks and so.
Don't know if you can use some of it (because of frogs and deadlines), 
but thought you may be interested to see.
Anyway I've amused experimenting. :-)
Aha, while checking the testpages after uploading, I believe FF can 
handle the IE-version too! Minor differences as not completely showing 
the top-right image (should be some margin-padding thing), but no time 
for further investigating.

You said: "i always seem to need the impossible don't i?  :) "
Ï think a can agree: I like that. Man has to be superior to the machine!

francky

ps: the javascript was just an idea; indeed sniffing at browsers can get 
you sneezy due to all the different availWidth-definitions.
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Re: [css-d] problem w/ embedded columns in Firefox

[Seona Bellamy]

On 17/02/06, Rafael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Interesting what IE does, though I don't know why.
>

I believe it has to do with the way IE deals with floats vs the way Firefox
deals with floats. Have a read of:
http://www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html

It explains the problem really well, as well as providing a nice way of
fixing it.

Cheers,

Seona.
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Re: [css-d] problem w/ embedded columns in Firefox

[Rafael]

Interesting what IE does, though I don't know why.  Well, you can get 
the effect you're looking for in Fx by adding
   
after the last DIV with your word-definition-link, i.e.
   [last-link]

Anyway, I think this wouldn't be any good.  Since most likely what you 
want to achieve is the words/links width, you may as well try something 
a little bit simplier, and that's to change a little the HTML structure 
and the CSS such as (example: letter "B"):

 
 
 Barrel
 Blue
  
 
 

 
   .main_square A {
 float: left;
 width: 20%;
   }
   .main_square BR {
 clear: left;
   }
 

I've tried in Fx 1.5.0.1, Opera 9-prev2 & IE6 and it seems to work just 
as expected, so give it a try.

Sean Callan wrote:
> Hey guys, I'm new here so I hope I'm doing this right but here's the deal.
> 
> I'm working on a dynamic dictionary for a forum I belong to and I've
> got the CSS working in IE no problem;  In FF is another question, divs
> don't show up in the parent divs like I had planned.  Any chance you
> could have a look at it and help me figure out what I overlooked?
> 
> I suggest you look at it in IE to see what I had intended then switch to FF.
> 
> the URL is : http://www.seancallan.com/sandbox/dictionary
-- 
Atentamente,
J. Rafael Salazar Magaña
Innox - Innovación Inteligente
Tel: +52 (33) 3615 5348 ext. 205 / 01 800 2-SOFTWARE
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.innox.com.mx

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Re: [css-d] problem w/ embedded columns in Firefox

[David Dorward]

On 16/02/06, Sean Callan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm working on a dynamic dictionary for a forum I belong to and I've
> got the CSS working in IE no problem;  In FF is another question, divs
> don't show up in the parent divs like I had planned.

http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=ClearingSpace

--
David Dorward 
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[css-d] problem w/ embedded columns in Firefox

[Sean Callan]

Hey guys, I'm new here so I hope I'm doing this right but here's the deal.

I'm working on a dynamic dictionary for a forum I belong to and I've
got the CSS working in IE no problem;  In FF is another question, divs
don't show up in the parent divs like I had planned.  Any chance you
could have a look at it and help me figure out what I overlooked?

I suggest you look at it in IE to see what I had intended then switch to FF.

the URL is : http://www.seancallan.com/sandbox/dictionary

Thanks,
Sean
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Re: [css-d] IE bug - Submit and Reset

[Iorhael]

>input:focus, textarea:focus, select:focus {   background-color: #ABE2C4; 
>color: #590F81; margin: >15px; padding: 3px;  width: 5em;
>}
 
>is it?


Leyrson,

Oh geesh! I forgot the CSS code for the buttonsmy apologies :(

Here it is:

input[type=submit], input[type=reset] {
   margin: 15px;
   padding: 3px;
   width: 5em;
   text-align: center;
   border: 1px solid #000;
}

www.drkdesign.com/debscards/cards_form.php

Debbie
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[css-d] Evil CMS generated IDs

[MarcLuzietti]

Is there anyway to use CMS-generated IDs with CSS? For example, 
Weblogic gives me something like: 

wlw-select_key:{actionForm.prepaymentPenaltyTypeI} .

Unfortunately, setting the IDs myself isn't an option. Weblogic overwrites 

them. So, short of writing a JavaScript to take all these CMS IDs and
assigning valid ones, is there anything else I can do?

-- 
Marc Luzietti
Flagship Project
Bayview Financial, L.P.
(305) 341-5624
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[css-d] IE bug - Submit and Reset

[Iorhael]

When I click submit on this form, the space above the Submit and Reset buttons 
disappears in IE. It doesn't effect the function but it looks ugly. Does anyone 
know of a fix for this?

http://www.drkdesign.com/debscards/cards_form.php

Thanks!

Debbie
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[css-d] [ADMIN] Re: Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Alex Robinson]

OK, this thread should end now. It's gone on long enough and I don't 
think it's going to add anything to anyone's understanding of 
applying CSS.

If anyone has got the energy to distill what's been said and add it 
the wiki, that would be great.

But please, no more posts to the list on this subject.



Alex Robinson
css-d moderator
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Re: [css-d] Allow overflow for height only

[Neill Harmer]

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Donec sagittis
pede at ligula. Mauris iaculis posuere ligula. Mauris in eros ut enim
molestie auctor. Sed vehicula tristique lacus. Etiam dictum sagittis magna.
Aenean pellentesque. Mauris tortor. Nunc ac lorem. Maecenas interdum semper
risus. Fusce vel risus eu mi sodales sagittis. Cras malesuada risus.
Suspendisse eros ante, semper quis, egestas ac, pretium at, est. Vestibulum
nec dui.


That will get you the basics. The overflow: auto, will make the div scroll
if there is more text than the height will allow. If the height of the items
inside that container does not reach the specified height, it will not show
scroll bars. 

Hope this helps. 
 
Neill Harmer
www.neillharmer.com
 
"Innovation distinguishes between being a leader and a follower."
 
 
 

 
 
 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Pratt
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 2:16 PM
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: [css-d] Allow overflow for height only

I want overflow to allow scroll bar to appear if content is longer but I
want content to be clipped and no scroll bar if screen is made narrower. 
Can someone advise on how to accomplish this. Many thanks.

David
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[css-d] Allow overflow for height only

[David Pratt]

I want overflow to allow scroll bar to appear if content is longer but I 
want content to be clipped and no scroll bar if screen is made narrower. 
Can someone advise on how to accomplish this. Many thanks.

David
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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Phil Palmieri]

This seems to work for me in most cases

Dynamically load your CSS file with a random query string (if you are  
scripting).
It makes your browser think its a different file.

PHP Example: (sorry i don't know ASP, JSP etc.



This was an old trick from the IE4 days, how we got around people  
caching .swf movies

Phil
MacSoftReview.com



On Feb 16, 2006, at 2:02 PM, Bill Moseley wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 16, 2006 at 04:22:46PM +, James MacLeod wrote:
> Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files  
> short of
> clearing it's cache?
>>
>> As well as setting the cache preferences to 0/always refresh, I've
>> gotten into the habit of holding down Shift + Command + Alt when
>> reloading. Not official, bu seems to do the trick for CSS files, at
>> least.
>
> Unfortunately, that doesn't work on the version of IE I'm using.  No
> command combination seems to change the behavior of the way IE
> "reloads".
>
> Of course, this is a caching issue.  If the server tells the browser
> that's it's ok to cache a file for some amount of time then, well,
> it's well within its "rights" to not fetch that again until that time
> has expired.  Makes testing a pain, unless you can control those
> headers or you use something nice like Firefox where you can force it
> to reload.
>
> That was my solution -- I just set my server to send no-cache headers
> on all my files while testing.
>
>
> So, Firefox doesn't re-request a page that is cached unless you hit
> reload.  Reload in Firefox does force a reload for the page you are
> viewing, but for loaded pages (e.g. css files and images) Firefox  
> sends
> a request with the If-Modified-Since header.
>
> Here's an example for http://bumby:3000/index.html.
>
> *All* files returned by the server say it's ok to cache the file for a
> day.  So after the initial page load just going back to http:// 
> bumby:3000/index.html
> does NOT make another request to the server.  Firefox just displays
> what's in it's cache just like it should.
>
> Hitting the reload button (or shift-R or F5) results in these  
> requests:
>
> http://bumby:3000/index.html  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/common.css  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/style.css  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/banner.css  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/images/busy.gif  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/ifp_logo_sm.gif  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/input_bg.gif  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/img_navarrowblue.gif  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/div_curve.gif  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/right_arror_blue.gif  -- 304
>
> So reload always reloads the current page, but not the other pages.
> Of course, if any of those had changed then the server would return
> those instead returning the 304.
>
> But hitting the reload button while holding down the shift button
> forces reload of all files:
>
> http://bumby:3000/index.html  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/common.css  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/style.css  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/banner.css  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/images/busy.gif  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/ifp_logo_sm.gif  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/input_bg.gif  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/img_navarrowblue.gif  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/div_curve.gif  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/right_arror_blue.gif  -- 200
>
> Again, Shift-reload isn't really needed since any changes to the
> loaded files would be noticed and return 200 instead of 304.  So if
> you update a css file then reload should be fine.
>
> Note that if that index.html page was set to *not* cache (say it's
> dynamic content) then Firefox will always fetch that page when going
> to that URL, but still respects the other file's cache headers.  Just
> like you would expect.
>
>
>
> Now, so how lame is IE 5.2 on my Tiger iBook?  (As if I have to ask!)
>
> IE has a number of cache settings.  None make very much sense.
>
> With "Always" set going back to a URL makes these requests:
>
> http://bumby:3000/about.html  -- 200
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/common.css  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/style.css  -- 304
> http://bumby:3000/site/css/banner.css  -- 304
>
> So "Aways" would seem to the best bet, for at least the CSS files.
>
> With "Never" set it does this instead:
>
>  http://bumby:3000/about.html  -- 200
>
> Note that about.html is suppose to be cached:
>
> $ HEAD http://bumby:3000/about.html
> 200 OK
> Cache-Control: max-age=86400
> Connection: close
> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:26:35 GMT
> Content-Length: 7227
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
> Expires: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 18:26:35 GMT
> Last-Modified: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:41:23 GMT
> Client-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:26:35 GMT
> Client-Peer: 192.168.1.2:3000
> Client

[css-d] IE5 Windows, Content Jumping Vertically Upon Link Hover

[King's Cat]

hello everyone,

humbly i ask if someone could someone look at this page in IE5 Windows and
hover over the
'Harriburg', 'Delaware' and 'Paralegal' links at the top of the photo to
trigger the submenus

here is the testing page
http://www.law.widener.edu/beta3/menu.html

notice that the entire contents of the page continue to move vertically down
the browser window. (hey, i think i just invented an online game!)
i thought perhaps the nested floated elements under #nav were causing the
problem, but i cant seem to fix it, even when i replace

#nav li {
  float:left;
...blah}
 with
#nav li {

float:inherit;...}


Any ideas as to what is triggering this?

my css is here
http://www.law.widener.edu/beta3/css/newstyle.css

thank you very much,
cass
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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Bill Moseley]

On Thu, Feb 16, 2006 at 04:22:46PM +, James MacLeod wrote:
> >>> Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files short of
> >>> clearing it's cache?
> 
> As well as setting the cache preferences to 0/always refresh, I've
> gotten into the habit of holding down Shift + Command + Alt when
> reloading. Not official, bu seems to do the trick for CSS files, at
> least.

Unfortunately, that doesn't work on the version of IE I'm using.  No
command combination seems to change the behavior of the way IE
"reloads".

Of course, this is a caching issue.  If the server tells the browser
that's it's ok to cache a file for some amount of time then, well,
it's well within its "rights" to not fetch that again until that time
has expired.  Makes testing a pain, unless you can control those
headers or you use something nice like Firefox where you can force it
to reload.

That was my solution -- I just set my server to send no-cache headers
on all my files while testing.


So, Firefox doesn't re-request a page that is cached unless you hit
reload.  Reload in Firefox does force a reload for the page you are
viewing, but for loaded pages (e.g. css files and images) Firefox sends
a request with the If-Modified-Since header.

Here's an example for http://bumby:3000/index.html.

*All* files returned by the server say it's ok to cache the file for a
day.  So after the initial page load just going back to 
http://bumby:3000/index.html
does NOT make another request to the server.  Firefox just displays
what's in it's cache just like it should.

Hitting the reload button (or shift-R or F5) results in these requests:

http://bumby:3000/index.html  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/common.css  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/style.css  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/banner.css  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/images/busy.gif  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/ifp_logo_sm.gif  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/input_bg.gif  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/img_navarrowblue.gif  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/div_curve.gif  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/right_arror_blue.gif  -- 304

So reload always reloads the current page, but not the other pages.
Of course, if any of those had changed then the server would return
those instead returning the 304.

But hitting the reload button while holding down the shift button
forces reload of all files:

http://bumby:3000/index.html  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/common.css  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/style.css  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/banner.css  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/images/busy.gif  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/ifp_logo_sm.gif  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/input_bg.gif  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/img_navarrowblue.gif  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/div_curve.gif  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/images/right_arror_blue.gif  -- 200

Again, Shift-reload isn't really needed since any changes to the
loaded files would be noticed and return 200 instead of 304.  So if
you update a css file then reload should be fine.

Note that if that index.html page was set to *not* cache (say it's
dynamic content) then Firefox will always fetch that page when going
to that URL, but still respects the other file's cache headers.  Just
like you would expect.



Now, so how lame is IE 5.2 on my Tiger iBook?  (As if I have to ask!)

IE has a number of cache settings.  None make very much sense.

With "Always" set going back to a URL makes these requests:

http://bumby:3000/about.html  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/site/css/common.css  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/style.css  -- 304
http://bumby:3000/site/css/banner.css  -- 304

So "Aways" would seem to the best bet, for at least the CSS files.

With "Never" set it does this instead:

 http://bumby:3000/about.html  -- 200

Note that about.html is suppose to be cached:

$ HEAD http://bumby:3000/about.html
200 OK
Cache-Control: max-age=86400
Connection: close
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:26:35 GMT
Content-Length: 7227
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Expires: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 18:26:35 GMT
Last-Modified: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:41:23 GMT
Client-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:26:35 GMT
Client-Peer: 192.168.1.2:3000
Client-Response-Num: 1

So I wonder why IE is fetching that page again?

Hitting "Refresh" in "Never" mode does this:

http://bumby:3000/about.html  -- 200
http://bumby:3000/images/busy.gif  -- 304

Why only busy.gif?  It's the only image on the page that is not loaded via
css.

NO combination of shift/option/ctr keys will make IE reload the CSS
files in Never mode.

Note above that IE never checks to see if images loaded via css have
changed.  Even clicking "Empty Now" to empty the cache doesn't force
it to reload or even see if those images have changed.

Of course, anyone using IE on OS X 

Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Nick Fitzsimons]

>>When testing in that browser, I would almost always keep another window
>>open that points directly to the style sheet. Hit the reload on that,
>> then
>>switch to your page(s).
>
> That's the same thing I do.  Even cranking the cache timeout down
> to 0, as others have suggested, didn't always work for me.  It
> probably had to do with pulling the files directly off my hard drive
> instead of going through an HTTP server, but I never exerted the
> effort to find out for sure.

No, it's nothing to do with using the file protocol (which I presume is
what you mean). I always do my development using http, and I had the same
issues with IE-Mac.

For images, one trick is to use the "View image" (or whatever it says)
context menu item, then force a proper reload, then hit the back button.

Regards,

Nick.
-- 
Nick Fitzsimons
http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/

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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 12:05 AM -0800 2/16/06, Larry Israel wrote:

>>  Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files short of
>>  clearing it's cache?
>
>When testing in that browser, I would almost always keep another window
>open that points directly to the style sheet. Hit the reload on that, then
>switch to your page(s).

That's the same thing I do.  Even cranking the cache timeout down 
to 0, as others have suggested, didn't always work for me.  It 
probably had to do with pulling the files directly off my hard drive 
instead of going through an HTTP server, but I never exerted the 
effort to find out for sure.

-- 
Eric A. Meyer (http://meyerweb.com/eric/), List Chaperone
"CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously."
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[James MacLeod]

Missed the mac bit apologies. Are you needing this for your personal  
testing or is it to makes sure that the people viewing your site have  
the most up-to-date version?

James

On Feb 16, 2006, at 16:30, Mark Howells wrote:

> The force refresh on the mac is just hold the shift key. Just hold
> shift and click the refresh button or press the F5 or F6 button I
> forget which.

Would be nice if it worked properly in IE, though... it doesn't
always. Think that's where the thread started. (F5 doesn't work in
all browsers, either, it's normally Command+R.)

Regards
Mark Howells
www.permanenttourist.ch
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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Mark Howells]

> The force refresh on the mac is just hold the shift key. Just hold  
> shift and click the refresh button or press the F5 or F6 button I  
> forget which.

Would be nice if it worked properly in IE, though... it doesn't  
always. Think that's where the thread started. (F5 doesn't work in  
all browsers, either, it's normally Command+R.)

Regards
Mark Howells
www.permanenttourist.ch
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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[James MacLeod]

The force refresh on the mac is just hold the shift key. Just hold  
shift and click the refresh button or press the F5 or F6 button I  
forget which.

James
On Feb 16, 2006, at 16:11, Mark Howells wrote:

>>> Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files short of
>>> clearing it's cache?

As well as setting the cache preferences to 0/always refresh, I've
gotten into the habit of holding down Shift + Command + Alt when
reloading. Not official, bu seems to do the trick for CSS files, at
least.

Regards
Mark Howells
www.permanenttourist.ch
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Re: [css-d] Table cell borders disappearing in Firefox

[Mark Howells]

>>> maybe 1 pixel just isn't enough when transfered to print, and  
>>> maybe  you could make a print stylesheet with 2 or 3px wide borders.

>> by changing the border widths to 1pt instead of 1px, the  problem  
>> seems to be resolved.

> Important thing to remember: a pixel has no defined fixed size, its  
> size depends on the device being used to display it. A POINT equals  
> approximately 1/72", regardless of the printer being used.

I'd just never seen this problem with data tables before; having  
tested in several environments with several printers, all of them  
have calculated and displayed 1px lines accordingly. I think it may  
have been the combination of percentage-width table cells and the  
exact page width which caused the problem, which, as mentioned, has  
been resolved by using points.

Regards
Mark Howells
www.permanenttourist.ch
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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Mark Howells]

>>> Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files short of
>>> clearing it's cache?

As well as setting the cache preferences to 0/always refresh, I've  
gotten into the habit of holding down Shift + Command + Alt when  
reloading. Not official, bu seems to do the trick for CSS files, at  
least.

Regards
Mark Howells
www.permanenttourist.ch
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Re: [css-d] fixed background image hidden on scroll

[cj]

On 2/16/06, francky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >assuming i rework my whole theme framework (joy) to accomodate moving
> >backgrounds around, is there any way i can get:
> >
> >- a fixed globe at the bottom of the viewport (preferably above the
> >footer if the footer is showing) without putting the globe in the
> >footer (because other themes use the footer and i can't really change
> >that one part)
> >
> >- a max width of 1,000px with a color on the outside and the globe
> >showing inside of the content area instead of on top of or behind the
> >outside coloring (which it's doing now at larger browser sizes).
> >
> >- footer sticks at the bottom (like it does now).  i know
> >.master-form's specified height ruins some fixes for the globe, but i
> >don't know of another way that would work for the footer.
> >-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> >
> >
> Wow, it's a complicated complex, but a good challenge! We have the
> expression: "It is like a wheelbarrow full of frogs: just as you have
> put back the jumped out frog, five other ones are jumping out". =-O

that's almost exactly what i'm working with.  :)  i considered myself
almost decent with css until i tried moving this one background...


> To tackle the long line problem, perhaps an idea (don't know it is
> possible in combination with the rest of the frogs):
> - Give the .wrapper-div a width in em's, so all clientside font sizing
> is allowed, and also at big resulutions the line-length is limited.
> - Then there is no need anymore to force the .master-form in a
> min-width/max-width.

i took out some containing divs for the test page since the rest of
the content they were containing was removed, so yes i would be able
to give an inner div a fixed width.  however, the footer would stretch
clear across the page then since it's only contained by master-form.


> - And more:  ... the globe isn't cut off at the right side anymore!
> See adapted testpage
> .

the globe does finally fit there.  :)  for some reason, when i first
view the page in 1024x768 and then maximize to my full resolution of
1600x1200 the footer ends at the bottom of the content, leaving a
large white space underneath it, and the globe hides behind the footer
and gets cut off underneath the footer.  the footer also streches
across the entire page for me.

[resized way down, so it looks really bad]
http://sltclan.com/images/cj/globe-cut.png



> Is it a rock hard condition that everything should work (perfectly)
> without javascript? Otherwise it should be possible to implement an

with asp.net, if the end user doesn't have javascript they're pretty
much SOL.  having a working web site without a dependancy on JS went
out the window the first week i got here.  the whole deal with that
form around all the content is for postbacks so that asp.net can do
it's admittedly really cool stuff back on the server side.  if i could
stick my site up live...  i can't even do a site check before our
first demo monday.  :(


> AvailableWidth-sniffer, and to redirect to an appriopriate stylesheet
> for the most used resolutions; and an AvailableHeight-sniffer for the
> determination of the heights. The realist in me tells: around 90% has js
> turned on [1] ;-) , but I don't know the "asking-to-confirm" - rules in
> XP (the yellowish popup-taskbar), so that can be pretty annoying though ...

i'd prefer to stay away from width sniffers.  i've heard they don't
always work as well as you'd hope and it adds an extra complexity when
i've already got way more than enough.  :x

this might simply be a place in which if the user thinks the text is
getting too long they can shrink their window.  unfortunately i don't
have enough time to spend another day on this.  :(  i always seem to
need the impossible don't i?  :)

thanks heaps and bunches francky!
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Re: [css-d] List menu Q

[James MacLeod]

Hey,

  The only way I can think of is too apply a class to it and then  
change the font size. You can try a height but I don't think it will  
work. Here is an example:

 menu in my page. It's located in a header bar which  
height is 20px. The select menu breaks the bar because it doesn't fit  
to the 20px height. This is in Ie6 and Firefox. In Opera it's  
(almost) OK. How can I influence to the height with CSS that this  
menu requires?

Thanks

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[css-d] List menu Q

[KalleS]

Hello,
I have  menu in my page. It's located in a header bar which height is 
20px. The select menu breaks the bar because it doesn't fit to the 20px height. 
This is in Ie6 and Firefox. In Opera it's (almost) OK. How can I influence to 
the height with CSS that this menu requires? 

Thanks

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[css-d] identify unused CSS

[Jursa, Jan \(init\)]

Hi,

i wonder whether there is a tool (firefox-extension? :-) which could
tell what CSS isn't used from a given stylesheet file.

Cheers.
j.


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Re: [css-d] having real difficulties getting a css drop down to work in IE

[Ingo Chao]

> ben scott wrote:
> 
>> ... trying to get the site at
>> http://www.filmworkshop.com/newsite/content/view/15/33/

It is working now in IE6, but the menu does take a long period to turn 
on when the page is accessed for the first time. Is this related to the 
absolute paths for the @import and for the behavior? Did you try 
relative paths?

The menu does not work in IE7b2 here. According to 
http://www.xs4all.nl/~peterned/csshover.html, the script should turn off 
in IE7, but I'd expect IE7 to work with li:hover?

Ingo

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Re: [css-d] Overflow and inheritance problems with a 2-column layout

[John Latter]

Thanks for the help James - I'm just going offline but I'll look at the 
link you gave later!

John Latter

On 16/02/2006 James MacLeod wrote:
>  Right first this first the reason the menu overlaps is that your 
content div has finished so it just wraps round. What would be better is 
if you put the left column as a div i.e:
>
>  #leftClm {
> width: 33%;
> float: left;
> display: block;
> padding: .. etc.
> }
>
>  Here is a good example: 
http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/basic2_fluid.html
>
>  James MacLeod
>
>  On Feb 16, 2006, at 09:28, John Latter wrote:
>
>  Hi,
>
>  I'm new to css and would appreciate some help with the following two
>  problems I've encountered in setting up a blog which can be seen here:
>
> 
http://evomech2.blogspot.com/2006/02/re-evomech-re-peer-review-and-genetic.html
>
>
>  Its a 2 column layout and I think the relevant css code is:
>
>  div#mainClm{float:right;width:66%;padding:30px 7% 10px
>  3%;border-left:dotted 1px #E0AD12;}
>  div#sideBar{margin:20px 0px 0px
>  1em;padding:0px;text-align:left;width:100%;}
>
>  The first problem (which occurs on Firefox but not IE6) can be seen at
>  the bottom of the above page where the sidebar text overflows into main
>  content area. I have tried to fix it myself but with many other things
>  to do I'm really stumbling about in the dark.
>
>  The second problem isn't readily apparent because I've tidied the main
>  column content up:
>
>  Entries in the main column are auto-added from a yahoo group and contain
>  "tt" tags which are then carried over into the sidebar and change the
>  text font. A similar effect is caused by posters using a variety of
>  composing programs. Is there any code I can add to the end of the main
>  div to stop _anything_ being inherited by the sidebar div?

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Re: [css-d] Overflow and inheritance problems with a 2-column layout

[James MacLeod]

Right first this first the reason the menu overlaps is that your  
content div has finished so it just wraps round. What would be better  
is if you put the left column as a div i.e:

#leftClm {
width: 33%;
float: left;
display: block;
padding: .. etc.
}

Here is a good example: http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/ 
box_lesson/basic2_fluid.html

James MacLeod

On Feb 16, 2006, at 09:28, John Latter wrote:

Hi,

I'm new to css and would appreciate some help with the following two
problems I've encountered in setting up a blog which can be seen here:

http://evomech2.blogspot.com/2006/02/re-evomech-re-peer-review-and- 
genetic.html


Its a 2 column layout and I think the relevant css code is:

div#mainClm{float:right;width:66%;padding:30px 7% 10px
3%;border-left:dotted 1px #E0AD12;}
div#sideBar{margin:20px 0px 0px
1em;padding:0px;text-align:left;width:100%;}

The first problem (which occurs on Firefox but not IE6) can be seen at
the bottom of the above page where the sidebar text overflows into main
content area. I have tried to fix it myself but with many other things
to do I'm really stumbling about in the dark.

The second problem isn't readily apparent because I've tidied the main
column content up:

Entries in the main column are auto-added from a yahoo group and contain
"tt" tags which are then carried over into the sidebar and change the
text font. A similar effect is caused by posters using a variety of
composing programs. Is there any code I can add to the end of the main
div to stop _anything_ being inherited by the sidebar div?

John Latter

[NB This is a repost of the first message I sent to this list. The first
one was sent in HTML/Plain Text format and I'm not sure if it got
through - my apologies if you've received this twice!]

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Re: [css-d] fixed background image hidden on scroll

[francky]

cj wrote:

>[... quite a lot ...]
>  
>
>i knew there was a reason i had to keep that globe on body.  sigh>  as you can see i did mess it up when i moved it, though when i
>put it back on body i have no idea how i can create the fixed-width
>page at resolutions over 1024 like i currently have (though the max
>isn't 1024 in the test page).  as you probably noticed the text starts
>to get really long on large screens with the browser maximized when
>you take out the max-width.
>
>
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>assuming i rework my whole theme framework (joy) to accomodate moving
>backgrounds around, is there any way i can get:
>
>- a fixed globe at the bottom of the viewport (preferably above the
>footer if the footer is showing) without putting the globe in the
>footer (because other themes use the footer and i can't really change
>that one part)
>
>- a max width of 1,000px with a color on the outside and the globe
>showing inside of the content area instead of on top of or behind the
>outside coloring (which it's doing now at larger browser sizes).
>
>- footer sticks at the bottom (like it does now).  i know
>.master-form's specified height ruins some fixes for the globe, but i
>don't know of another way that would work for the footer.
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>  
>
Wow, it's a complicated complex, but a good challenge! We have the 
expression: "It is like a wheelbarrow full of frogs: just as you have 
put back the jumped out frog, five other ones are jumping out". =-O
To tackle the long line problem, perhaps an idea (don't know it is 
possible in combination with the rest of the frogs):
- Give the .wrapper-div a width in em's, so all clientside font sizing 
is allowed, and also at big resulutions the line-length is limited.
- Then there is no need anymore to force the .master-form in a 
min-width/max-width.
- And more:  ... the globe isn't cut off at the right side anymore!
See adapted testpage 
.

francky

ps:
Is it a rock hard condition that everything should work (perfectly) 
without javascript? Otherwise it should be possible to implement an 
AvailableWidth-sniffer, and to redirect to an appriopriate stylesheet 
for the most used resolutions; and an AvailableHeight-sniffer for the 
determination of the heights. The realist in me tells: around 90% has js 
turned on [1] ;-) , but I don't know the "asking-to-confirm" - rules in 
XP (the yellowish popup-taskbar), so that can be pretty annoying though ...

[1] thecounter.com 
:
= = = = =
JavaScript Stats, Thu Dec 1 00:03:00 2005 - Sat Dec 31 23:58:41 2005   
31.0 Days

Javascript 1.2+: 61695870 (90%)
Javascript <1.2: 105437 (0%)
Javascript false: 6442984 (9%)
= = = = =
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Re: [css-d] Out damned dots!

[Els]

Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
> On Feb 16, 2006, at 6:33 PM, Els wrote:
>
>> Bruce MacKay wrote:
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> I have a "border-bottom: 1px dotted #bbb;" style applied to
>>> my links.  I only want the style applied to text links, not
>>> image links.  My problem is: How do I get it turned off
>>> image links?
>>
>> a:link{border-bottom:1px dotted #bbb;}
>> a:link img{border-bottom:none;}
>
> That doesn't work in decent browsers. The image is a child of
> the , meaning, the dotted border stretches around the image.

Oops, sorry. That'll teach me reply without checking first ...

> a.noborder {border-bottom:none}
> 


Much better :-)

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http://locusoptimus.com/

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Re: [css-d] Out damned dots!

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Feb 16, 2006, at 6:33 PM, Els wrote:

> Bruce MacKay wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I have a "border-bottom: 1px dotted #bbb;" style applied to my
>> links.  I only want the style applied to text links, not image
>> links.  My problem is: How do I get it turned off image links?
>
> a:link{border-bottom:1px dotted #bbb;}
> a:link img{border-bottom:none;}

That doesn't work in decent browsers. The image is a child of the  
, meaning, the dotted border stretches around the image.

a.noborder {border-bottom:none}


Philippe
---
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[css-d] Out damned dots!

[Bruce MacKay]

Hi folks,

I have a "border-bottom: 1px dotted #bbb;" style applied to my 
links.  I only want the style applied to text links, not image 
links.  My problem is: How do I get it turned off image links?

The test page http://ramosus.massey.ac.nz/default.asp shows 
underlining on the stylesheet changer image links and on the image in 
the main body of the page.  The style sheet is at 
http://ramosus.massey.ac.nz/scripts/master.css

I'd really appreciate some insight towards solving this problem - the 
static sources of online CSS knowledge have not helped me in this instance.

Thanks,

Bruce


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Re: [css-d] Solution: Drop shadow effect on Text with CSS

[Christian Heilmann]

> > If you are searching for such a solution, this is one way to achieve it.
> > The psacake.com solution is another. TANSTAFLL - If you don't want
> > JavaScript, then you live with the double entry. No double entry, then
> > live with JavaScript.
>
> A quick glance at the source suggests that even with the JavaScript
> version you have a double entry - it is just duplicated with
> JavaScript rather than by hand. This has implications for screen
> readers.

Agreed. While it seems a lot cleaner to generate superfluous markup
with JavaScript what counts is the final document tree.

For bulletproof drop shadows it might be best just to rely on images
and generate those on the fly or wait till browsers support the
appropriate CSS.

--
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Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/
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[css-d] Overflow and inheritance problems with a 2-column layout

[John Latter]

Hi,

I'm new to css and would appreciate some help with the following two 
problems I've encountered in setting up a blog which can be seen here:

http://evomech2.blogspot.com/2006/02/re-evomech-re-peer-review-and-genetic.html 


Its a 2 column layout and I think the relevant css code is:

div#mainClm{float:right;width:66%;padding:30px 7% 10px 
3%;border-left:dotted 1px #E0AD12;}
div#sideBar{margin:20px 0px 0px 
1em;padding:0px;text-align:left;width:100%;}

The first problem (which occurs on Firefox but not IE6) can be seen at 
the bottom of the above page where the sidebar text overflows into main 
content area. I have tried to fix it myself but with many other things 
to do I'm really stumbling about in the dark.

The second problem isn't readily apparent because I've tidied the main 
column content up:

Entries in the main column are auto-added from a yahoo group and contain 
"tt" tags which are then carried over into the sidebar and change the 
text font. A similar effect is caused by posters using a variety of 
composing programs. Is there any code I can add to the end of the main 
div to stop _anything_ being inherited by the sidebar div?

John Latter

[NB This is a repost of the first message I sent to this list. The first 
one was sent in HTML/Plain Text format and I'm not sure if it got 
through - my apologies if you've received this twice!]

-- 

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Re: [css-d] Out damned dots!

[Els]

Bruce MacKay wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I have a "border-bottom: 1px dotted #bbb;" style applied to my
> links.  I only want the style applied to text links, not image
> links.  My problem is: How do I get it turned off image links?

a:link{border-bottom:1px dotted #bbb;}
a:link img{border-bottom:none;}

-- 
Els
http://locusmeus.com/
http://locusoptimus.com/

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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Feb 16, 2006, at 5:05 PM, Larry Israel wrote:

>> Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files short of
>> clearing it's cache?
>
> When testing in that browser, I would almost always keep another  
> window
> open that points directly to the style sheet. Hit the reload on  
> that, then
> switch to your page(s). You could do the same for one or two stubborn
> images. If you spot some images that aren't up to date, point to them
> directly and reload It's short of reloading *all* files, but I've
> found it to do what I need in many situations.

And set the cache to zero (Always update pages)
Preferences >Advanced>...

Philippe

Philippe Wittenbergh




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Re: [css-d] Solution: Drop shadow effect on Text with CSS

[David Dorward]

On 14/02/06, Peach Lynda L CTR USAF 96 CG/SCTA
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If you are searching for such a solution, this is one way to achieve it.
> The psacake.com solution is another. TANSTAFLL - If you don't want
> JavaScript, then you live with the double entry. No double entry, then
> live with JavaScript.

A quick glance at the source suggests that even with the JavaScript
version you have a double entry - it is just duplicated with
JavaScript rather than by hand. This has implications for screen
readers.

--
David Dorward 
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Re: [css-d] Any tricks to get IE:mac to refresh?

[Larry Israel]

> Is there any trick to get IE 5.2 Mac to reload *all* files short of
> clearing it's cache?

When testing in that browser, I would almost always keep another window
open that points directly to the style sheet. Hit the reload on that, then
switch to your page(s). You could do the same for one or two stubborn
images. If you spot some images that aren't up to date, point to them
directly and reload It's short of reloading *all* files, but I've
found it to do what I need in many situations.

Larry
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