[css-d] Partial percentage heights

[Moe Aboulkheir]

I'm sure this question gets asked fairly often, though I tried searching the 
archive but could find anything - probably because it's difficult to compress 
into a short summary.

If I have something like:

body
  div class=navigation.../div
  div class=content.../div
/body

How can I have content take up all of the remaining vertical slack - i.e. the 
height of the viewport minus the height of the top div?  Is there a way to do 
this that involves constraining the height of the top div?  Is there a way that 
doesn't?  If content has height: 100% (I'm testing with Firefox in 
standards-compliance mode, I also added a rule that sets the height html  body 
elements to 100%) then it assumes the height of the entire viewport (which I'm 
sure is what the specification says), it seems, so I get a vertical scrollbar, 
which is not the intended effect.

Thanks,
Moe Aboulkheir
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Re: [css-d] Div positioning

[francky]

Just for safety:

Hi readers of my last message about the right link.

* http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/81019

Maybe I didn't compose the mail clear enough.
Did you scroll down over the original message to see the rest - my 
suggestions on the questions?

And I forgot to memorize, that after repairing the .venutitle the 
following classes like .venuinfo, .vifiller and so on, have to be 
checked too of course.

Greetings,
francky
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Re: [css-d] Partial percentage heights

[Roger Roelofs]

Mike,

On Oct 24, 2006, at 3:23 AM, Moe Aboulkheir wrote:

 I'm sure this question gets asked fairly often, though I tried  
 searching the archive but could find anything - probably because  
 it's difficult to compress into a short summary.

 If I have something like:

 body
   div class=navigation.../div
   div class=content.../div
 /body

 How can I have content take up all of the remaining vertical slack

This isn't as easy as it seems like it should be, and the answer is  
very dependent on what exactly you are trying to do.  If you are  
trying to get a footer to stick to the bottom of the viewport, check  
out this page http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=FooterInfo.   
Otherwise, put up a test page and we'll try to give you a more  
concrete answer.

BTW, this design criteria often pups up early in a project, but turns  
out to be moot by the time you add all the content to the page, so  
I'd be tempted to save this problem to the end and see if it needs to  
be addressed at all.

-- 
Roger Roelofs
Remember, if you’re headed in the wrong direction,
God allows U-turns!
  ~Allison Gappa Bottke

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[css-d] Mac IE5 positioning problem

[Simon Gough]

Hi

I have a layout which works in Firefox, Safari, IE6 PC but totally breaks in
Mac IE5.  I've seen this before and can't remember what the problem is.  The
URL is:

http://www.redfront.co.uk

The URL of the stylesheet is:

http://redfrontprojects.com/redfront/index.php?css=redfronthome/site_css

Does anyone know what's happening here?  I'm sure you do, I think I'm
missing something obvious!

Simon


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Re: [css-d] @import or link href=css/buttons.css /

[Erik Visser]

Christian Heilmann wrote:
 I like @import, as it allows for modularization of CSS much more than LINKs 
 do.
 

Can you explain a little more on modularization?

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Re: [css-d] @import or link href=css/buttons.css /

[Dave Goodchild]

As an example, here is how I link to a stylesheet on one site in the header
template:

link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=main.css /

where main.css contains the following:

@import url(/css/global.css);
@import url(/css/typography.css);
@import url(/css/colours.css);
@import url(/css/filters.css);
@import url(/css/print.css) print;

in other words, I can swap out stylesheets from this file without having to
alter the link in the main header file, for instance to change colour and
design staples quickly.

On 10/24/06, Erik Visser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Christian Heilmann wrote:
  I like @import, as it allows for modularization of CSS much more than
 LINKs do.
 

 Can you explain a little more on modularization?




-- 
http://www.web-buddha.co.uk
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Re: [css-d] Div positioning

[Pete Home]

Thanks Francky,

I saw the first error and didn't look down the email for the fix!

There is no missing DIV, I ran it through the validator and got the same
error, but I do not understand why. I move the fieldset in the form and
validate down to 1 error. If I add an extra div at the end, I get different
errors. I'm not sure why this happens.

Anyway, I added a 95% width to the bg0 and bg1 (ooops, forgot the .!) which
stops the scroll h/bar but still does nothing for the background color.

Regards
Pete

-Original Message-
From: francky [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 24 October 2006 10:36
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: Re: [css-d] Div positioning

Just for safety:

Hi readers of my last message about the right link.

* http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/81019

Maybe I didn't compose the mail clear enough.
Did you scroll down over the original message to see the rest - my
suggestions on the questions?

And I forgot to memorize, that after repairing the .venutitle the
following classes like .venuinfo, .vifiller and so on, have to be
checked too of course.

Greetings,
francky

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Re: [css-d] Famous CSS/Javascript menuins system

[Ricky Zhou]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Wes Gamble wrote:
 I've been lurking on this list for a while and there is almost always 
 mention of some well known, currently fairly popular CSS (and Javascript 
 I think) dropdown menuing scheme.  It has a very catchy name, but it 
 escapes me.  Can anyone help me remember it? 
Perhaps you mean Suckerfish Dropdowns?
(http://alistapart.com/articles/dropdowns/)

Ricky
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)

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[css-d] centering block elements in IE 6.0 fails

[Daniel Kabs]

Hello there,

I've read in Eric Meyer's book that one can center nested block elements 
*horizontally* inside a parent block element by setting left and right 
margins of the nested element to auto (p. 316, 2nd. ed.). I also found 
postings in this list saying so. I take it, this should work in IE 6.0 as 
long as it is in standards-compliant mode:
 
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnie60/html/cssenhancements.asp

I tried to apply the Centering with auto-margins technique according to 
  http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CenteringBlockElement

Please see the test page at 
  http://www.mobotixserver.de/~daniel/css_center_horizontally.html

The page works on Firefox and Konqueror but not on IE 6.0 (SP2).

Did I do something wrong or why is IE failing once more?

Cheers
Daniel Kabs
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Re: [css-d] Mac IE5 positioning problem

[Roger Roelofs]

Simon,

On Oct 24, 2006, at 5:49 AM, Simon Gough wrote:

 I have a layout which works in Firefox, Safari, IE6 PC but totally  
 breaks in
 Mac IE5.  I've seen this before and can't remember what the problem  
 is.  The
 URL is:

 http://www.redfront.co.uk

The centering technique for #contentwrapper is notoriously bad for ie/ 
mac, and has problems in other browsers too when the viewport (aka  
window) is narrower than the content.  Are you avoiding a simple  
margin: 0 auto; for a particular reason?

Replacing your code with the following should work in all browsers  
and has the added benefit of having the content stop at the left edge  
and add a horizontal scroll bar for narrow viewports.

#contentwrapper {
   margin: 0 auto;
   background-color: #FF;
   width: 760px;
   position: relative;
}



Roger,
-- 
Roger Roelofs
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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[css-d] Changing z-index with :hover - screen starts flickering

[dimpie]

I need some help with the following problem.

I have a div#main - with color lightblue - which should is and should be on top 
when the webpage loads.
When I hover over it I want the div#menu - with color gold - to be on top.

At first div#main has z-index 100. When I hover over div#main (div#main:hover) 
I change the z-index to 10.

Div#menu has a z-index of 50.

The problem is that the divs start fighting (= flickering) about who should be 
on top.

This is the webpage. 

Thanks in advance.

Dimpie.
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Re: [css-d] centering block elements in IE 6.0 fails

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Daniel Kabs wrote:
 I tried to apply the Centering with auto-margins technique 
 according to 
 http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CenteringBlockElement
 
 Please see the test page at 
 http://www.mobotixserver.de/~daniel/css_center_horizontally.html
 
 The page works on Firefox and Konqueror but not on IE 6.0 (SP2).

Yes, IE6 centers block-element by auto-margins when in standard
compliant mode, but there's a flaw in IE when it is served absolute
positioned elements.

IE6 can *not* relate A:P elements to opposite sides of parent-container,
so only one of these properties is used...
   left: 0;
   right: 0;
...not both. IE ends up positioning '.center' according to 'left: 0;'
and ignores 'right: 0;'.
Result: the auto-margins becomes useless in that browser.

---

Other browsers will use both properties - which cancels them out since
the element has dimensions. Thus they end up balancing the element
horizontally so the auto-margins can act.
Result: perfect centering.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] IE and Safari issues (UPDATE) / IE7 horizontal scrollbar

[Tom Livingston]

On 10/24/06, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  This gives a huge scrollbar.
 
  Disappointing.
 
  Ingo
 

 Indeed. Now I have to figure out how else to get those links with the
 icons to work right w/o the text-indent...

 --


 Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic |
 ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com


Life with IE7 begins.

I solved my issue with conditional comments - giving IE7 it's own
sheet which adds overflow:hidden to my 100% width/100% min-height wrap
div. This oddly works w/o cropping any additional added content
vertically. Weird, huh? Anyone wanna slap my hand and show me a more
proper way?

Thanks!
-- 


Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
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[css-d] suckerfish IE problem

[Matt Plummer]

Hello everyone,
I am using the Suckerfish dropdowns as detailed in ALA, but I am having a
bit of a problem. Although the hover works and the drop downs show up in
both Firefox and IE6, there is a problem in IE6 with the dropdown menu being
overlapped by elements on the static page.

For instance the picture in the upper left hand of the page overlaps the
dropdown Musicians menu, even if the z-index for the image is set lower
than the menu. Not does the image bleed visually into the menu, but the menu
(understandably) disappears when the mouse pointer hits the image.

http://www.bostonmusicians.org/afm/
http://www.bostonmusicians.org/afm/c/gene.css

I should also mention that I am using Shaun Inman's Clearing Absolutes js,
but this still a problem when I disable that javascript.

thanks for any help you can give!
best,
Matt
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Re: [css-d] How to define a section on a page where CSS has ZERO effect?

[cj]

[i assume this was for the list, so i'm replying back on-list for the archives.]

On 10/23/06, Les Mizzell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 cj wrote:
  if i'm reading you right, you're asking how do i reset all styling
  for this p so the customer has a clean slate?.

 I have a CSS file I use for every single site that sets all attributes
 to a default starting value that I then work from, but this would be
 different - it need to set everything to a default value - basically
 making it appear as if no CSS has been applied to a HTML document.

 So, basically this:

 #noCSS A:link {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
 #noCSS H1 {font-weight:bold;font-size:26pt;}
 #noCSS H2 {font-weight:bold;font-size:20pt;}
 #noCSS H3 {font-weight:bold;font-size:14pt;}
 #noCSS H4 {font-weight:bold;font-size:12pt;}
 #noCSS H5 {font-weight:bold;font-size:10pt;}
 #noCSS H6 {font-weight:bold;font-size:8pt;}
 #noCSS B, STRONG {font-weight:bold;}
 #noCSS #noCSS I, #noCSS EM, #noCSS CITE, #noCSS DFN, #noCSS VAR
 {font-style:italic;}
 #noCSS U, #noCSS INS {text-decoration:underline;}
 #noCSS S, #noCSS STRIKE, #noCSS DEL {text-decoration:line-through;}
 #noCSS SMALL {font-size:smaller}
 #noCSS BIG {font-size:larger}
 #noCSS ADDRESS {font-style:italic}
 #noCSS PRE {font-family:courier}


 OK - but what if there's a font-size defined somewhere up in the page
 for all paragraphs. How to avoid that getting inherited into the noCSS
 div?

i can think of a couple ways, neither of them pretty.  css is meant to
cascade (hence the name!), so resetting an area of the page isn't
built in.

1. pick a browser you like and grab their css rules for the elements
that the browser styles with absolutely no code from you.  go through
that file and basically do a smart copy/paste into your css for this
area.

2.  have absolutely no css that you code yourself applies to this no
css part.  by this i mean that every other thing you want to style on
the page that could possibly overlap with the nocss part needs to be
explicitly named so that you can access it by class (or id) name in
your css file.  this might give you a lot of extra classes, but it
will keep that nocss part clear of any styling you have personally
done.

i think the second one there is better because all browsers style
elements differently, and that option allows the browsers to continue
doing so.

hth.
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[css-d] Yet another IE positioning problem

[John Lee]

Hello

I'm also having a layout problem related to IE. My page works on all
browsers but IE. Does anything here seem familiar to anyone?

dangerousmuse.blogspot.com

stylesheet url is:

http://www.cordlessstreet.com/temp_DM/temp_blog/css/stylesheet.css

I'm pretty new at this stuff so I'm sure my code is not going to be
the easiest to look through, but if anyone can help that would be
awesome.

Thanks,
John
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[css-d] Custom Font Families

[Tom Livingston]

Listers,

I am being asked for ammunition against pushing custom font families
to visitors of a Web site. Anyone have any references on this? I know
it has been discussed, but google has been fruitless as of yet.

Thanks

-- 


Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic |
ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
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[css-d] Safari Layout Problems

[Alex Foley - OnWired]

I'm having problems aligning a form search box in the header of this page:

http://www.toolcrib.com/index.aspx

The box looks fine in Firefox and IE, but not in Safari.  Am I ignoring 
a common Safari bug with alignment?  I'm using NiftyCorners to simulate 
the Javascript Corners, which is why it looks weird.

Alex Foley
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Re: [css-d] Famous CSS/Javascript menuins system

[Thierry Koblentz]

Wes Gamble wrote:
 I've been lurking on this list for a while and there is almost always
 mention of some well known, currently fairly popular CSS (and
 Javascript I think) dropdown menuing scheme.  It has a very catchy
 name, but it escapes me.  Can anyone help me remember it?

This is not the one you have in mind, but it may work for you:
http://www.tjkdesign.com/articles/keyboard_friendly_dropdown_menu/

---
Regards,
Thierry | www.TJKDesign.com
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Re: [css-d] Custom Font Families

[Gareth Rodger]

Tom,

I've never had a problem using 'custom' font-families.

I usually try to tick the following boxes;

* Make sure the family contains an OS default ( http:// 
www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html ) e.g. Verdana, Arial
* Make sure you depreciate to a generic family e.g. monospace or serif
* Dont use fancy font's with 'limited' character sets
* I don't use fonts containing all upper case or excessively  
flamboyant glyphs
* I don't generally use non-standard fonts (in-fact - I have only  
done this once for a presentation on my machine)

Regards,

Gareth Rodger

W: http://www.garethrodger.com
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


On 24 Oct 2006, at 15:13, Tom Livingston wrote:

 Listers,

 I am being asked for ammunition against pushing custom font families
 to visitors of a Web site. Anyone have any references on this? I know
 it has been discussed, but google has been fruitless as of yet.

 Thanks

 -- 


 Tom Livingston | Senior Multimedia Artist | Media Logic |
 ph: 518.456.3015x231 | fx: 518.456.4279 | mlinc.com
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[css-d] multiple menu strife

[Ian Young]

Been working on Tedd Sperling's excellent drop down menu which was difficult
to catch in IE7.
As part of the exercise made submenus different colours etc.

However, now IE6 has added some margin to the UL or UL hover and I cannot
for the life of me where I have made the error - especially as I had the
whole thing working fine last evening.

Anyone care to cast their eye over it and see what I have missed?

http://www.iyesolutions.co.uk/examples/dropdown-menu/test3.html
CSS is embedded in page for ease

Cheers

Ian
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[css-d] Grouped ID and class selectors in IE

[J. Biechele]

Hi,

first the link to the sample page with inline styles:
http://www.cadutamassi.com/test/test.html

Could anybody explain me please why in IE the background image of
Option2 does not show up, means the styles for option 2 aren't
recoginzed at all in IE? With FF this works fine.

I know the HTML Code in the test.html isn't valid because of the
duplicate ids in div id=startpageExtra ..
In my original page only one of these options is present at a time like
rotating banners. But the background image doesn't show up either in IE.

Thanks for any hint or pointing me to where I can read more to
understand this behaviour and how to solve it.
Josef


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Re: [css-d] Grouped ID and class selectors in IE

[Lars Huring]

Just do:

.option1 {
background-color: #d7e8f3;
background-image: url(bg_option1.jpg);
}

.option2 {
background-color: #c4d4e8;
background-image: url(bg_option2.jpg);
}


(or div.option1)

and it works fine in IE.


// L

J. Biechele wrote:
 Hi,
 
 first the link to the sample page with inline styles:
 http://www.cadutamassi.com/test/test.html
 
 Could anybody explain me please why in IE the background image of
 Option2 does not show up, means the styles for option 2 aren't
 recoginzed at all in IE? With FF this works fine.
 
 I know the HTML Code in the test.html isn't valid because of the
 duplicate ids in div id=startpageExtra ..
 In my original page only one of these options is present at a time like
 rotating banners. But the background image doesn't show up either in IE.
 
 Thanks for any hint or pointing me to where I can read more to
 understand this behaviour and how to solve it.
 Josef
 
 
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[css-d] Background image not showing

[ed gooddy]

With the following browsers and OSs the background image in the navbar div 
doesn´t show-why oh why?! Thanks for any pointers:
  Firefox 1.5.0 (no Flash)  + Linux Fedora Core 4
Firefox 2.0b1 (no Flash)   +Linux Fedora Core 4 
Konqueror 3.4.0-5 (no Flash) +  Linux Fedora Core 4
Mozilla 1.7.12 (no Flash)   +  Linux Fedora Core 4  
Opera 9.0 (no Flash)  +  Linux Fedora Core 4  
Firefox 1.5.0 (No Flash)   +  Windows 2000 Professional 
Firefox 2.0b1 (No Flash)   +  Windows 2000 Professional 
Mozilla 1.6 (No Flash)   +  Windows 2000 Professional
Mozilla 1.7.12 (No Flash)  +Windows 2000 Professional
Firefox 2.0rc2 (No Flash)   +   Windows Vista RC2 
Opera 9.02 (No Flash)  +Windows Vista RC2 
Opera 8.5.0 (No Flash) +Windows 2000 Professional  
Opera 9.0 (No Flash)+   Windows 2000 Professional  
Netscape 7.2 (no Flash)+   Windows 2000 Professional 
Opera 9.0 (No Flash) +  Windows XP 
Netscape 7.2 (no Flash)  +Windows XP  
Firefox 2.0b1 (No Flash)+   Windows XP
   
  Other problems with comments:
Firefox 1.5.0 (No Flash)+   Windows XP (show source code!!)
Explorer 4.0 (no Flash) +  Windows 98 (complete mess!!)
Netscape 6.2 (no Flash)+   Windows 2000 Professional (moves navbar div up 
the page)
Netscape 4.78 (no Flash)+   Windows 2000 Professional (doesn´t show the 
navbar and tabsH divs)
Netscape 6.2.3 (No Flash) +  Windows XP (moves up the  page)
Explorer 5.0 (no Flash)  + Windows 2000 Pro.(divs pushed all the way down the 
page)

 Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 
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Re: [css-d] Div positioning

[francky]

Pete Home wrote:

Thanks Francky,
I saw the first error and didn't look down the email for the fix!
  

Hi Pete,
Glad I've send the safety message!

There is no missing DIV, I ran it through the validator and got the same
error, but I do not understand why. I move the fieldset in the form and
validate down to 1 error. 

This I don't understand. The html-validator as well as html-Tidy report 
this 1 error: a missing /div. They say it is the #container which 
isn't closed, but my experience is that the diagnosis of the validators 
is not always right: it can be missing also somewhere else...
In fact, I'm pretty sure it is somewhere in the div-mountains of the 
#content part, for in my examples I commented these out, and no error is 
coming:

* http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/css-discuss/test-o-gazetteer-5.htm

So brute force: I counted the starting div ...'s and the closing 
/div's ... two times ... and the validators are right: really there 
are 99 starting div's and 98 ending div's. :-)

If I add an extra div at the end, I get different
errors. I'm not sure why this happens.
  

You said, adding a fresh /div in the end is causing fresh errors: I 
don't understand that either.
If I make a new testpage, based on your actual page, with the added #99 
ending div, it is reporting no error or warning at all, nor in the 
html-editor, nor in html-Tidy:

* 
http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/css-discuss/test-fresh-o-gazetteer.htm

Maybe it has something to do with testing the html from your local 
server, or with a residue in your cache? - Oh, correction, when I read 
this again. [1]

Anyway, I added a 95% width to the bg0 and bg1 (ooops, forgot the .!) which
stops the scroll h/bar 

Not yet in IE, which isn't good in computing %'s... Therefore I applied 
a straight 458px solution.

but still does nothing for the background color.

Regards
Pete

In IE the background color is already coming.
In FF not yet, but over there I see a small bar of the bg0 
background-color #CAD4E2 above the Atlas Gallery line. So you are 
close! :-)
I guess the color is in a containing div which is not stretching because 
of some floats inside.
Just back in a moment ...

... and see FF is cooperating:

* 
http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/css-discuss/test-fresh-o-gazetteer-color.htm

Now only the venuinfo-class has to be adapted:

* 
http://home.tiscali.nl/developerscorner/css-discuss/test-fresh-o-gazetteer-color2.htm

or an other fine tuning which you like.
O, almost forgotten: going back to IE and see what it is playing now!
- Thank you MS, indeed correcting to get rid of an IE gap is needed; but 
that's another story... [2] ;-)

Success and greetings,
francky

PS:
Adding meta http-equiv=imagetoolbar content=no in the head will 
prohibit that IE-visitors are seeing this annoying toolbar, when 
hovering over an image. Not all IE-owners do know how to find the IE 
settings to turn it off. We can help them! :-)

[1]
I first thought you mean: new html-errors  that I don't understand. But 
if you mean: errors in the design of the page, I can understand. Adding 
a /div in the end (just to make the # of div's complete) can be no 
good, as the missing div is probably somewhere in the middle of the 
multi-div content. And adding a /div in an abitrary place can have 
inpredictible effects! - So if you want to sort out the missing /div, 
some more bug hunting is needed...

[2]
The vifiller-class is the culprit: empty div without some !-- comment 
to correct IE -- inside is giving the default line-height in IE. But 
also in FF this div is making kinda double borderline above the 
Photography line.
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Re: [css-d] Background image not showing

[David Merwin]

How abotu some links to your CSS? And maybe the file itself?

David Merwin
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
541-335-1832
http://www.davemerwin.com
http://www.purebluedesign.com
http://www.betachurch.org
http://www.agiprofessional.com



On Oct 24, 2006, at 9:25 AM, ed gooddy wrote:

 With the following browsers and OSs the background image in the  
 navbar div doesn´t show-why oh why?! Thanks for any pointers:
   Firefox 1.5.0 (no Flash)  + Linux Fedora Core 4
 Firefox 2.0b1 (no Flash)   +Linux Fedora Core 4
 Konqueror 3.4.0-5 (no Flash) +  Linux Fedora Core 4
 Mozilla 1.7.12 (no Flash)   +  Linux Fedora Core 4
 Opera 9.0 (no Flash)  +  Linux Fedora Core 4
 Firefox 1.5.0 (No Flash)   +  Windows 2000 Professional
 Firefox 2.0b1 (No Flash)   +  Windows 2000 Professional
 Mozilla 1.6 (No Flash)   +  Windows 2000 Professional
 Mozilla 1.7.12 (No Flash)  +Windows 2000 Professional
 Firefox 2.0rc2 (No Flash)   +   Windows Vista RC2
 Opera 9.02 (No Flash)  +Windows Vista RC2
 Opera 8.5.0 (No Flash) +Windows 2000 Professional
 Opera 9.0 (No Flash)+   Windows 2000 Professional
 Netscape 7.2 (no Flash)+   Windows 2000 Professional
 Opera 9.0 (No Flash) +  Windows XP
 Netscape 7.2 (no Flash)  +Windows XP
 Firefox 2.0b1 (No Flash)+   Windows XP

   Other problems with comments:
 Firefox 1.5.0 (No Flash)+   Windows XP (show source code!!)
 Explorer 4.0 (no Flash) +  Windows 98 (complete mess!!)
 Netscape 6.2 (no Flash)+   Windows 2000 Professional (moves  
 navbar div up the page)
 Netscape 4.78 (no Flash)+   Windows 2000 Professional (doesn´t  
 show the navbar and tabsH divs)
 Netscape 6.2.3 (No Flash) +  Windows XP (moves up the  page)
 Explorer 5.0 (no Flash)  + Windows 2000 Pro.(divs pushed all the  
 way down the page)

  Send instant messages to your online friends http:// 
 uk.messenger.yahoo.com
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Re: [css-d] Grouped ID and class selectors in IE

[cj]

i think you're running into some ie fun (aka bugs, bugs, bugs).
here are some links to multiple class/id bugs.


http://www.quirksmode.org/bugreports/archives/2004/12/IE_CSS_rendering_bug_with_multiple_classnames.html
http://www.quirksmode.org/bugreports/archives/2005/12/All_but_last_grouped_idclass_selectors_are_ignored.html
http://www.quirksmode.org/bugreports/archives/2005/09/IE6_Multi_Class_Bug.html

i used to have links for the ie connect site dealing with these
issues, but microsoft conveniently took that site down so people
couldn't look up which bugs weren't fixed.  (yes there is high sarcasm
here)

fwiw, your page looks fine in ie7.  :)
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[css-d] Single Column Table, Reduce Vertical Gap between Content

[Michael Terry]

Hi,

I've got a table with one column and 3 cells. Each cell has one  
character in it. I want to reduce the vertical spacing between the  
characters. I thought changing the line-height would do it, but as  
it's reduced, the character rides up out of the top of the cell. How  
can I do this?

Michael Terry

html
head
style

table {
width: 275px;
text-align: center;
line-height: 150px;
}

td {
border: 1px solid green;
height: 150px;
}

tr {
height: 150px;
}

div {
border: 1px solid red;
font-size: 144px;
width: 275px;
}

#problem {
position: absolute;
top: 0;
right: 0;
bottom: 0;
left: 0;
margin: auto;
display: table;
}

#operator {
position: absolute;
top: 175px;
}

/style
/head

body

div id=problem
table
trtd2/td/tr
trtd2/td/tr
trtd4/td/tr
/table
div id=operator+/div
/div

/body
/html

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Re: [css-d] multiple menu strife

[tedd]

At 3:43 PM +0100 10/24/06, Ian Young wrote:
Been working on Tedd Sperling's excellent drop down menu which was difficult
to catch in IE7.
As part of the exercise made submenus different colours etc.

However, now IE6 has added some margin to the UL or UL hover and I cannot
for the life of me where I have made the error - especially as I had the
whole thing working fine last evening.

Anyone care to cast their eye over it and see what I have missed?

http://www.iyesolutions.co.uk/examples/dropdown-menu/test3.html
CSS is embedded in page for ease

Ian:

Thanks for the compliment.

As a habit of practice for me, when trying to get someone else's code 
to work, I find that it's usually best to set it up as is to see if 
everything works before I alter the code to my liking.

A quick look at your code shows that you have made some significant 
changes as well as not using any classes (i.e., parent and such) and 
no IE conditional statement.

hth's

tedd
-- 
---
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com
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[css-d] IE 6 and 7 on same box

[AG]

Did anybody succesfully install both of these on the same box? How?
Thanks
Ara G.

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[css-d] 100% height minus 2em

[Paul Novitski]

This is likely one of those Gordian knots of CSS:  how to combine 
percentages and ems in the same layout.

I want to style a block that fills the vertical space of the 
viewport, minus the 2ems taken up by the header.  How to express 100% 
- 2em in CSS?

Before I fall back on JavaScript (or *gasp* table markup), I'd like 
to plumb the well of CSS community knowledge.  None of the 100% 
height solutions I've found so far address this wrinkle.

Here's an illustration of the layout I'm after, but 'cheating' by 
using a percentage for the header height as well as the content block:
http://juniperwebcraft.com/test/PercentMinusEmsProblem.html

Please understand that I'm not looking for a faux layout in which the 
eye is fooled, you know, by giving the content block 100% height and 
letting the header reside inside or overlay it with absolute 
positioning.  Because my content block will contain a Flash object 
that will expand to the dimensions of its container, I need the 
container to truly begin at the bottom of the header.

Thanks,
Paul

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Re: [css-d] 100% height minus 2em

[David Merwin]

Couldn't you use padding and negative margins?

div1 {height:100%; padding:2em 0 0 0;}
div2 {height:2em; margin:-2em 0 0 0;}

div id=div1
div id=div2/div
/div


David Merwin
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
541-335-1832
http://www.davemerwin.com
http://www.purebluedesign.com
http://www.betachurch.org
http://www.agiprofessional.com



On Oct 24, 2006, at 11:55 AM, Paul Novitski wrote:

 This is likely one of those Gordian knots of CSS:  how to combine
 percentages and ems in the same layout.

 I want to style a block that fills the vertical space of the
 viewport, minus the 2ems taken up by the header.  How to express 100%
 - 2em in CSS?

 Before I fall back on JavaScript (or *gasp* table markup), I'd like
 to plumb the well of CSS community knowledge.  None of the 100%
 height solutions I've found so far address this wrinkle.

 Here's an illustration of the layout I'm after, but 'cheating' by
 using a percentage for the header height as well as the content block:
 http://juniperwebcraft.com/test/PercentMinusEmsProblem.html

 Please understand that I'm not looking for a faux layout in which the
 eye is fooled, you know, by giving the content block 100% height and
 letting the header reside inside or overlay it with absolute
 positioning.  Because my content block will contain a Flash object
 that will expand to the dimensions of its container, I need the
 container to truly begin at the bottom of the header.

 Thanks,
 Paul

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Re: [css-d] Grouped ID and class selectors in IE

[J. Biechele]

Thank you for the great info links!
And fine to know ie7 will handle that in an expected manner ;-)


 i think you're running into some ie fun (aka bugs, bugs, bugs).
 here are some links to multiple class/id bugs.



http://www.quirksmode.org/bugreports/archives/2004/12/IE_CSS_rendering_bug_with_multiple_classnames.html

http://www.quirksmode.org/bugreports/archives/2005/12/All_but_last_grouped_idclass_selectors_are_ignored.html

http://www.quirksmode.org/bugreports/archives/2005/09/IE6_Multi_Class_Bug.html

 i used to have links for the ie connect site dealing with these
 issues, but microsoft conveniently took that site down so people
 couldn't look up which bugs weren't fixed.  (yes there is high sarcasm
 here)

 fwiw, your page looks fine in ie7.  :)




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Re: [css-d] Partial percentage heights

[Moe Aboulkheir]

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 05:12:12 -0400, Roger Roelofs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This isn't as easy as it seems like it should be, and the answer is  very 
dependent on what exactly you are trying to do.  If you are  trying to get a 
footer to stick to the bottom of the viewport, check  out this page http 
://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=FooterInfo.   Otherwise, put up a test 
page and we'll try to give you a more  concrete answer.

http://divmod.org/users/moe/percentage-heights-test.html is the simplest 
approximation of my situation.  Currently it uses height: 100% for the bottom 
div, which, as i mentioned, results in an undesired vertical scrollbar
 
BTW, this design criteria often pups up early in a project, but turns  out 
to be moot by the time you add all the content to the page, so  I'd be 
tempted to save this problem to the end and see if it needs to  be addressed 
at all.

Unfortunately this isn't the case: the project that this for is relatively 
mature, and initially I used a javascript hack to gloss over this requirement, 
but it's turning out to be less than ideal.

Thanks,
Moe Aboulkheir
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Re: [css-d] 100% height minus 2em

[Paul Novitski]

At 10/24/2006 12:22 PM, David Merwin wrote:
Couldn't you use padding and negative margins?

div1 {height:100%; padding:2em 0 0 0;}
div2 {height:2em; margin:-2em 0 0 0;}

div id=div1
div id=div2/div
/div

On Oct 24, 2006, at 11:55 AM, Paul Novitski wrote:
http://juniperwebcraft.com/test/PercentMinusEmsProblem.htmlhttp://juniperwebcraft.com/test/PercentMinusEmsProblem.html

Please understand that I'm not looking for a faux layout in which the
eye is fooled, you know, by giving the content block 100% height and
letting the header reside inside or overlay it with absolute
positioning.  Because my content block will contain a Flash object
that will expand to the dimensions of its container, I need the
container to truly begin at the bottom of the header.

Thanks, David, but as I said I need a container that is 100% - 2em 
high, not a container that is 100% height and contains a 2em high 
block.  In my limited experience marking up Flash objects, Flash 
expands to fill its container without regard to any other content 
that might be there, so I really want that content box to be the 
header's sibling, not its parent.

Regards,
Paul  

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Re: [css-d] 100% height minus 2em

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Paul Novitski wrote:
 This is likely one of those Gordian knots of CSS:  how to combine 
 percentages and ems in the same layout.

It can't be done, but that doesn't mean your _problem_ can't be solved
with regular CSS.

Some browsers may be a bit weak though - IE6 being one of them.

 I want to style a block that fills the vertical space of the 
 viewport, minus the 2ems taken up by the header.  How to express 100%
  - 2em in CSS?

 http://juniperwebcraft.com/test/PercentMinusEmsProblem.html

 Because my content block will contain a Flash object that will expand
  to the dimensions of its container, I need the container to truly 
 begin at the bottom of the header.

The solution is to forget the percentage-height on #content, and focus
on the window-size - or rather its edges - instead, using absolute
positioning.
The tested solution below will give you a container that starts below
the header, and auto-adjusts to window-height in all CSS-capable browsers.

HTML:
your example-page - unchanged source-code.

CSS:

#header
{
height: 2em;
width: 70%;
margin: 0 auto;
padding: 0 1em;
background-color: #F0F;
}

#content
{
position: absolute;
width: 40em;
padding: 0 1em;
background-color: #FF0;
top: 2em;
bottom: 0;
}

Opera and Firefox do just fine.
IE6 needs help (use an expression or something), since it can't position
relative to opposite edges.
Don't know about IE7, and can't check.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] multiple menu strife

[Ian Young]

 Ian:

 Thanks for the compliment.

 As a habit of practice for me, when trying to get someone else's code
 to work, I find that it's usually best to set it up as is to see if
 everything works before I alter the code to my liking.

 A quick look at your code shows that you have made some significant
 changes as well as not using any classes (i.e., parent and such) and
 no IE conditional statement.

 hth's

 tedd
 --
Thanks Tedd

I have gone beyond using the code as is and this is one approach to the
problem. In IE7 there were two issues one where the menu was difficult to
grab and once that was sorted it displayed all of the submenus when the top
menu was hovered. Also experienced problems with IE6 not changing fonts
hence some of other changes. Decided to do it all in one script rather than
using classes.

Good code tho' and learned a lot from it.

Ian


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Re: [css-d] 100% height minus 2em

[David Merwin]

I am not getting it then. Sorry bout that. The flash object would be  
controlled by the padding of the parent div. In this case the padding  
then leaves room for the header div that is using negative top margin.

SOrry about that.

David Merwin
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
541-335-1832
http://www.davemerwin.com
http://www.purebluedesign.com
http://www.betachurch.org
http://www.agiprofessional.com



On Oct 24, 2006, at 1:28 PM, Paul Novitski wrote:

 At 10/24/2006 12:22 PM, David Merwin wrote:
 Couldn't you use padding and negative margins?

 div1 {height:100%; padding:2em 0 0 0;}
 div2 {height:2em; margin:-2em 0 0 0;}

 div id=div1
 div id=div2/div
 /div

 On Oct 24, 2006, at 11:55 AM, Paul Novitski wrote:
 http://juniperwebcraft.com/test/ 
 PercentMinusEmsProblem.htmlhttp://juniperwebcraft.com/test/ 
 PercentMinusEmsProblem.html

 Please understand that I'm not looking for a faux layout in which  
 the
 eye is fooled, you know, by giving the content block 100% height and
 letting the header reside inside or overlay it with absolute
 positioning.  Because my content block will contain a Flash object
 that will expand to the dimensions of its container, I need the
 container to truly begin at the bottom of the header.

 Thanks, David, but as I said I need a container that is 100% - 2em
 high, not a container that is 100% height and contains a 2em high
 block.  In my limited experience marking up Flash objects, Flash
 expands to fill its container without regard to any other content
 that might be there, so I really want that content box to be the
 header's sibling, not its parent.

 Regards,
 Paul

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[css-d] Interior wrapper not functioning/behaving itself

[Dan Clarkson]

Hi 

 

[While I have been a subscriber for a while to this list, this is my first
post - I hope it isn't too dumb!]

 

This has almost reduced me to tears, but I'm sure there is an easy
explanation out there.   Im simply trying to position a main content div
and a sidebar div in an interior wrapper.   The interior wrapper
immediately follows floated elements in the page header so it has got the
clear:both property in there.

 

The problem is I that I EITHER get the content and sidebar to align
correctly but without the interior wrapper enclosing the elements as
follows: http://www.funkate.co.uk/NEW/inner_page.html

 

OR I get the inner wrapper to correctly wrap around the two elements, but
then I get the dreaded drop-float: as follows:
http://www.funkate.co.uk/NEW/inner_page2.html

 

I can't seem to get BOTH the two elements floating correctly AND them
enclosed in the interior wrapper.

 

Most grateful for any assistance to relieve my frustration.. All styles are
in the head of the page for easy viewing.  

 

Dan

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[css-d] Bulleting problem in IE

[Portman]

Hi,

I am finishing up a website for someone and find that some of the 
bullets are missing in IE. The page is here: 
http://www.starqualitydesigns.com/1stchoice/services.htm. Can anyone 
tell me why one bullet in the middle is missing in the first list and 
the first bullets are missing in the second and third lists?

TIA,
Riva
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[css-d] Help with a CSS bug specific to dreamweaver...

[Matt Dawson]

Hi all -

I've already gotten so much great help from the list on this project - so
thanks to everyone.

My problem is I have this css-based layout:

http://www.southernenvironment.org/test/index2.html

that works in all browsers but IE5 and IEMac (I'm working on separate hacks
for those), but has an annoying bug in dreamweaver.

My layout is based on instructions from Dan Cederholm's Bulletproof Web
Design.  In short, I have three columns.  The main content column and the
right sidebar are situated in a wrapper div (called #main_body) that are
floated to the left.

And here's where the problem is: I've applied a tiled background image to
#main_body to make the blue main content column stretch to the footer, even
if the right sidebar is longer.  Works fine in all browsers.

BUT in dreamweaver, adding this tiled image to the background through css
causes all of my text to black out in design view - that is, it looks like
someone took a black higlighter to those two columns.

As I've mentioned in past emails, I have to use Dreamweaver, as it's the
software we've committed to as an organization.

Has anyone encountered this problem?  Is there a fix?

(Oh, and I did also ask about this on the Adobe forums.  So I apologize if
any of you already came across this question there...)

Mat
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[css-d] email this page feature

[Melissa Meyer]

Everyone,

I am setting up an email this page feature on the site I am working on and
I would like to know everyone's opinion on their favorites methods of doing
this.

I found this example:

http://www.alistapart.com/articles/sendtofriend/

But, I don't have Access to a server with ASP and CDOMail which is a
prerequisite.

The other way I could do it is with java script which I don't completely
understand.

Here is another option:

From the code:
lia href=/mailfriend/30/15414/c211e708ba/ class=emailE-mail
story/a/li

css:
ul.story_tools li a.email {
background: 
url(http://media.kansan.com/edge/img/structure/toolbar/email.gif);
}
ul.story_tools li a.email:hover {
background: 
url(http://media.kansan.com/edge/img/structure/toolbar/email_hover.gif);
}

The question I have with this is did the developer have to manually enter
the a href=/mailfriend/30/15414/c211e708ba/ ?? That would mean a lot of
extra work and attention.

If anyone has done this out there please give me your opinion on which way
is the best way to complete this task.

Thanks for your help!

Melissa

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Re: [css-d] Struggling with IE6 compatibility for Holy Grail

[Alan Chandler]

On Monday 23 October 2006 22:16, Alan Chandler wrote:
 I have tried to use a modified version of AListApart's Holy Grail article
 to line up the columns on my site (URL in my signature).  The modification
 is that

 a) I have put columns in the header and footer,
 b) Mostly I only have two columns instead of 3 - setting one of the column
 widths to 0.

 But IE doesn't display it correctly, and I can't work out what is wrong.

I have a little test harness to figure out how to get a double column 
mechanism working correctly using the instructions at 
http://www.456bereastreet.com/lab/developing_with_web_standards/csslayout/2-col/

.  Its at

http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk/testing/col.html
(with css at http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk/testing/col.css)

but I already have strange effects that don't seem to be documented anywhere 
that I have found so far.

In particular

1) The picture used as the background for the #logo div is 164 x 123 pixels.  
The #header div has a left margin of 164px, and whilst it sits close to the 
picture on both Firefox and Konqueror, IE/6 seems to show white space between 
the backgrounds of the #logo and #header divs.

2) If I add a border round the #header div the padding and a margin at the top 
of the page seem to alter in Firefox and Konqueror but not in IE/6
http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk/testing/col2.html
(with css at http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk/testing/col2.css)

Can someone explain what these effects are - so I can figure out how to fix 
them.
 


-- 
Alan Chandler
http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk
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Re: [css-d] multiple menu strife sorted

[Ian Young]

 Been working on Tedd Sperling's excellent drop down menu which
 was difficult
 to catch in IE7.
 As part of the exercise made submenus different colours etc.

 However, now IE6 has added some margin to the UL or UL hover and I cannot
 for the life of me where I have made the error - especially as I had the
 whole thing working fine last evening.

 Anyone care to cast their eye over it and see what I have missed?

 http://www.iyesolutions.co.uk/examples/dropdown-menu/test3.html
 CSS is embedded in page for ease


Sorted the problem above - all in the nav a code.
Still not 100% as there is an extra space on hover where there is another
sub-menu and in IE7 there is still the tendency for all submenus to appear.

Ian
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.11/493 - Release Date: 23/10/2006

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[css-d] CSS: one band-aid on top of another?

[Css Discuss]

Hello,

I am a PHP programmer who used to do only front end stuff in the time before
managers accepted CSS as a valid way to mark up web pages.

Now I'd really like to get up to speed on CSS but everytime I start to get
into it, it seems like, oh to make that work in that browser I'll need this
work around, or it's going to do this or that.

That sucks!!! Is there no logic here?

So is sticking to the CSS High Road like being in Mad Max and wanting to
drive a car. Yeah there're cool but there's no gas for 100 miles and if you
want parts you'll have to kill someone for them! Oh yeah and watch out for
the guy on the helicopter thing with the snakes!!!

What do YOU (plural) do?

Do you say, I'm sticking ot standards, piss on your browser if it doesn't
look good!?
Your clients will like that.

Do you make your pages simple so that there's flexability in the design, so
that browsers don't notice the difference?
(Think Google)

Do you go bonkers (or spend a ton of time) learning the work arounds so that
instead of a specialist in CSS you become a specialist in the work arounds
that hopefully will be gone in a few years?!?!

I'd really like to get good with CSS, even REALLY good, I totally intrigued
by them, as much as programming.
It just feels hiking in deep mud,.. WAY too much work. I need to earn a
living here.

I need a pep talk!

Thanks,
JJ
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Re: [css-d] email this page feature

[Cem Meric]

From the code:
lia href=/mailfriend/30/15414/c211e708ba/ class=emailE-mail
story/a/li

The question I have with this is did the developer have to manually enter
the a href=/mailfriend/30/15414/c211e708ba/ ?? That would mean a lot of
extra work and attention.




Melissa, I don't think this is CSS related. Can you explain the connection
please?


Regards,

--
Cem Meric | http://www.kalkadoon.net/
Kalkadoon Corporate Solutions Pty Ltd



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Re: [css-d] CSS: one band-aid on top of another?

[Rimantas Liubertas]

...
 What do YOU (plural) do?

 Do you say, I'm sticking ot standards, piss on your browser if it doesn't
 look good!?
 Your clients will like that.

 Do you make your pages simple so that there's flexability in the design, so
 that browsers don't notice the difference?
 (Think Google)

 Do you go bonkers (or spend a ton of time) learning the work arounds so that
 instead of a specialist in CSS you become a specialist in the work arounds
 that hopefully will be gone in a few years?!?!

Hi, first things first:
1) Forget hacks. These are the last measure. You may need some
workarounds, but hacks are much overrated. Andy Budd had a great presentation
on the subject at @media 2006 [1]. He talked about strange attitude
forming among
some web developers–whenever they encounter some CSS problem they immediately
start looking for the hack to solve it. That's bad.

2) Do not try to make design look the same pixel to pixel in different
browsers. This
is possible, but usually not worth it–regular users don't change their
browser in the middle
of the browsing, they just stick to their preferred one... unless your
site doesn't work in it.
So, no to pixel-to-pixel identity, yes to looking good and working
well in major browsers.

3) Validate your (X)HTML and CSS. This will help you to catch some
markup errors which may
interfere with CSS renedering.

4) Use decent browser as you work: Firefox, Safari, Opera. If your
design works in one, chances
are high that it will work perfectly in others without any
modifications. IE may require some extra
effort, but this way it is easier than to build for IE first and then
try to adapt for the other browsers.

5) Take your time and go through CSS specification. It is not that scary.

6) Make yourself familiar with some common IE bugs and how to deal
with them.  Position is everything [2] is a good place to start.

I am sure others will give more advices.

http://www.andybudd.com/archives/2006/06/media_2006_presentation/
http://positioniseverything.net/




Regards,
Rimantas
--
http://rimantas.com/
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Re: [css-d] Interior wrapper not functioning/behaving itself

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Dan Clarkson wrote:

 The problem is I that I EITHER get the content and sidebar to align 
 correctly but without the interior wrapper enclosing the elements as 
 follows: http://www.funkate.co.uk/NEW/inner_page.html

 OR I get the inner wrapper to correctly wrap around the two elements,
 but then I get the dreaded drop-float: as follows: 
 http://www.funkate.co.uk/NEW/inner_page2.html

 I can't seem to get BOTH the two elements floating correctly AND them
  enclosed in the interior wrapper.

Take your first example...

http://www.funkate.co.uk/NEW/inner_page.html

...and add...

#contentwrapper {
background: #789 /* just to make it visible */;
float: left /* expand to contain inner floats */;
width: 100% /* stretch to full width */;
}

...and it'll behave as you want in all browsers.

regards
Georg
-- 
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Re: [css-d] CSS: one band-aid on top of another?

[Css Discuss]

I'm a Mac user now, was Linux full time for quite a while. I keep a
laptop handy to check windows browsers. I use FF for everyday life and
doing my HTML and CSS.
It's interesting coming back to front end stuff, I wonder how many
here use Vim as their HTML/CSS editor? I'm so hooked!

I find this thread interesting, thanks for the encouragment.

- JJ

On 10/24/06, Shelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 *Exactly* what Rimantas said.  I have found that the majority of people
 who say CSS is too hard or put up arguments for not using it (like oh
 to make that work in that browser I'll need this work around, or it's
 going to do this or that LOL) are generally people who haven't really
 given it a shot.  This includes people who are new to it (which is a
 common first reaction, but they'll learn) as well as people who tried it
 once for a day or two and just gave up because they wanted to get it
 instantly (those are the *fun* ones to discuss it with!)

 Once you get CSS - it's like riding a bike.  You *get* it.  And then you
 start wanting to know and understand more.  And the more you get the
 better you get at it.  For me, it took a couple of months before the
 light bulb switched on over my head, and thanks to the past years of
 learning, reading, and soaking up whatever I could wherever I could
 (this list, too!), I usually get hired by design houses that want to go
 tableless.  Many times (especially when I see responses here from Georg
 or francky - among others, and remember who actually runs this list) I
 feel like I know nothing - until I speak with someone who's in the same
 spot I was five years ago.  I may not know as much as a lot of these
 guys, but I *do* know enough that my skills are sought after enough to
 pay for my family vacations (and electronic goodies of all sorts that
 are around the house!)

 But *exactly* what he said - the *biggest* mistake you can make is to
 design for IE and then fix the other browsers later.  The second biggest
 mistake is to wait until the site is completely finished before you
 start validating your CSS and markup (you should be doing that all along
 to save yourself a visit to the hospital from head trauma via banging
 your head on the desk)

 CSS is awesome.  It's been so long since I've used a table that I
 actually have to look up old tutorials now to see how they're done ;)
 And for the record, usually when I find myself needing to use a hack,
 it's only for IE5 on a Mac - and even then it's rare.

 ~Shelly

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Re: [css-d] Struggling with IE6 compatibility for Holy Grail

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Alan Chandler wrote:

 http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk/testing/col.html

 1) The picture used as the background for the #logo div is 164 x 123 
 pixels. The #header div has a left margin of 164px, and whilst it 
 sits close to the picture on both Firefox and Konqueror, IE/6 seems 
 to show white space between the backgrounds of the #logo and #header 
 divs.

That's the negative effect of 'hasLayout'[1] - the '3px jog' bug, where
3px is added to the left margin in IE/win.

Solution: don't declare a width on #header, or set the width to 'auto'
(which is default anyway). That way there's no 'hasLayout' trigger, and
subsequently no disturbing '3px jog'.

 2) If I add a border round the #header div the padding and a margin 
 at the top of the page seem to alter in Firefox and Konqueror but not
  in IE/6 http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk/testing/col2.html (with css
  at http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk/testing/col2.css)

That's the effect of preventing 'collapsing margins'[2], where the
margins on h1 is _contained_ within #header, instead of _escaping_ it.
You can see that there's a margin/gap above the page in your first
example-page, and that margin/gap is gone in your second example-page.
That gap is the escaped or 'collapsed' margin of h1.

IE messes with it a bit because of its 'hasLayout' bug. Once that bug is
taken care of by not triggering it (as explained for your first
question), IE will behave more like the other browsers.

The most cross-browser stable solution is to add a padding top/bottom to
#header, as that will contain h1's margins in the #header in all browsers.

 Can someone explain what these effects are - so I can figure out how 
 to fix them.

Sorry if I take the fun out of bug-hunting :-) , but the quick fix is
to add...

#header {width: auto; padding: 1px 0;}

...to solve both problems, and then add a margin-top to #wrap if you
want a gap up there above the page.

regards
Georg

[1]http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/onhavinglayout.html
[2]http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/box.html#collapsing-margins
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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[css-d] missing margin on link image

[Linda Quinn]

Please help me understand what is happening. I have a column of  
images (actually the logos of an organization's sponsors) and each  
one will link to the sponsors' web sites. To make is obvious that  
they are links, I thought I would have a border appear on hover.  
Works in FF, but not in IE6/Win or Safari/Mac.

This is the page: www.lifeonwheels.com/beta2

The image links are contained in a div with an id of sponsorimages.
The CSS includes:

#sponsorimages a:link {
color:#fff;
}

#sponsorimages a:hover {
color:#009;
}

In FF - bring the mouse over a logo and the a blue border appears -  
as it should.

In Safari/Mac - the links work, but the border never appears.

In IE6/Win - the borders are always there!

Thanks for any explanations - and better yet for a fix! LindaQ
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Re: [css-d] How to define a section on a page where CSS has ZERO effect?

[francky]

cj wrote:

[...]
i can think of a couple ways, neither of them pretty.  css is meant to
cascade (hence the name!), so resetting an area of the page isn't
built in.

1. [...]

2. [...]
  

Hi Les,
And ... maybe, maybe ... I was thinking ... escaping the cascade ... you 
need a kinda hole in the page, through which nobody can see your css or 
html ... so if the hole is an IFRAME, with a link to the client's home 
styled page?

Success and greetings,
francky

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Re: [css-d] Changing z-index with :hover - screen starts flickering

[francky]

dimpie wrote:

[...]
This is the webpage. 
[...]
  

Hi Dimpie,
I looked everywhere, but couldn't find it. Maybe you send it with an 
attachment, but the list is dropping that. Can you send a link to the 
page on a site?

Greetings,
francky
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[css-d] Horizontal List Menu Aligned right

[Micky Hulse]

Hello,

Just curious if you folks can explain to me what it takes to get a 
horizontal menu to align right without setting widths of the list 
items... I do not see to many list menus on the net that are aligned 
right where the width of the menu items is dependent upon the text/link 
and padding...

One of the best examples I have found is this one:

http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/phantom-links/inline-block_list.php

But I do not fully understand the hacks... Anyone know of a list similar 
to the above, but hack-free?

The above menu is great due to the fact that it accounts for Phantom 
links in IE 5.2/mac... (un)Fortunately, I am not concerned about that 
browser, so maybe the css could be a bit more simple?

My long-term goal is to setup a right-aligned, 2-level, tabbed 
navigation that is not fixed width (i.e. padding/text determines width 
of items).

Am I dreaming? :)

Any input/advice/links would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Micky

-- 
  Wishlist: http://snipurl.com/vrs9
Switch: http://browsehappy.com/
  BCC?: http://snipurl.com/w6f8
My: http://del.icio.us/mhulse
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Re: [css-d] Bulleting problem in IE

[francky]

Portman wrote:

Hi,

I am finishing up a website for someone and find that some of the 
bullets are missing in IE. The page is here: 
http://www.starqualitydesigns.com/1stchoice/services.htm. Can anyone 
tell me why one bullet in the middle is missing in the first list and 
the first bullets are missing in the second and third lists?

TIA,
Riva

Hi Riva,
In IE there are no missing bullets, but all squares are displayed on the 
bottom line of the list-item. If there is only 1 line, it doesn't 
strike! ;-)
How to solve?
Maybe it has to do with IE's error handling of the html: validating 
learns that you used br clear=both, which has to be: br 
style=clear: both;.

If it is not that, IE could have difficulties with the 
{list-style-position: outside;}, which you can omit with some playing 
margins and paddings.
Or is it the * html  li { height: 1%;}?

Hope this helps,
Greetings,
francky

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Re: [css-d] Bulleting problem in IE

[Portman]

Thanks Francky.

Riva

francky wrote:
 Hi Riva,
 In IE there are no missing bullets, but all squares are displayed on the 
 bottom line of the list-item. If there is only 1 line, it doesn't 
 strike! ;-)
 How to solve?
 Maybe it has to do with IE's error handling of the html: validating 
 learns that you used br clear=both, which has to be: br 
 style=clear: both;.

 If it is not that, IE could have difficulties with the 
 {list-style-position: outside;}, which you can omit with some playing 
 margins and paddings.
 Or is it the * html  li { height: 1%;}?

 Hope this helps,
 Greetings,
 francky
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Re: [css-d] Need some help with MIR image replacement and missing list-style-type:disc.

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Oct 25, 2006, at 12:48 AM, David Merwin wrote:

 I am trying to use MIR image replacement. Works great in Fireworks,
 but in IE (PC) and Safari it shows the first letters of the text that
 is being replaced. Making me crazy, can't figure out what is going on.

What is wrong with using img src=myimage.gif alt=something ?
Seriously, I have serious doubts about the assumptions behind that  
method. I think it relies to much on buggy behaviour in browsers with  
negative letter-spacing.
There are a couple of open bugs for both Gecko (Firefox) and Safari.

 ALso, I am missing the discs in my ul. I can not figure out why they
 are not showing up.

Because you set those li to display:block. What you want is  
{display: list-item}, the default display value for li.
(which doesn't work in IE Windows).

 Page in Question Here: http://orcas.purebluedesign.com/Step2/
 disk_list.php

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://emps.l-c-n.com




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Re: [css-d] Horizontal List Menu Aligned right

[Micky Hulse]

Micky Hulse wrote:
 Am I dreaming? :)

Hmm, I guess I was over-thinking this... Text-align right on the parent 
UL seems to work just fine... Phantom links happen in IE 5.2/Mac, but I 
do not need to worry about that browser for this project.

Is it really that simple?



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Re: [css-d] Horizontal List Menu Aligned right

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Oct 25, 2006, at 11:28 AM, Micky Hulse wrote:

 Just curious if you folks can explain to me what it takes to get a
 horizontal menu to align right without setting widths of the list
 items... I do not see to many list menus on the net that are aligned
 right where the width of the menu items is dependent upon the text/ 
 link
 and padding...

 One of the best examples I have found is this one:

 http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/phantom-links/inline-block_list.php

That is an *old* one I coded zillions of years ago (back in 2002 ?).  
Full of cruft to make it work, back then.

Just a bit float:left, float:right.
http://dev.l-c-n.com/_temp/inline-list2.php

Philippe
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Philippe Wittenbergh
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Re: [css-d] Horizontal List Menu Aligned right

[Micky Hulse]

Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:
 Just a bit float:left, float:right.
 http://dev.l-c-n.com/_temp/inline-list2.php

Ahh, great! You do exceptional work Philippe!

This will be a great learning resource for me, thanks for sharing. :)

I may be back with questions... In the end, I am hoping I can code a DL 
to look like tabbed navigation (right aligned) where the DD's are the 
sub-items... doing tests now, though, not sure if a DL is the best 
option for this type of setup.

Anyway, many many thanks for the example code. Very kind of you to share. :)

Have a great day/night

Cheers,
Micky


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Re: [css-d] Help with a CSS bug specific to dreamweaver...

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Oct 25, 2006, at 6:38 AM, Matt Dawson wrote:

 And here's where the problem is: I've applied a tiled background  
 image to
 #main_body to make the blue main content column stretch to the  
 footer, even
 if the right sidebar is longer.  Works fine in all browsers.

 BUT in dreamweaver, adding this tiled image to the background  
 through css
 causes all of my text to black out in design view - that is, it  
 looks like
 someone took a black higlighter to those two columns.

 As I've mentioned in past emails, I have to use Dreamweaver, as  
 it's the
 software we've committed to as an organization.

They *still* haven't fixed that bug ?
I reported that problem while beta testing Dreamweaver back in 2004.
(and I haven't used that app since those betas timed out).

The fix that worked back then is absolutely stupid.
background: url(../images/lt_blue_tile_homepage.gif) repeat-y 0px 0px;
note the addition of px to position co-ordinates: instead of 0 0 make  
it 0px 0px.

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://emps.l-c-n.com




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[css-d] No DOC TypE

[Visually Insane Genetically Modified Organism]

I know this is been covered before, however, I did not think it was important 
in the past. The W3C HTML validator is telling me there is no DOC TYPE when at 
the top of the file I have:

!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN 
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd;

Can someone please help?


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