Re: [CTRL] JFK MURDER SOLVED - The truth after 35 years . . .

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/8/99 2:37:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< Sorry but this website is either misinformed or more disinformation.  In
the
 UNEDITED version of the Zapruder film it is CLEAR who fired the second shot,
 the one that took his face off.  His name is William Harris and he was
driving
 the limo at the time.  He was a member of the Secret Service.  How does one
 expose the highest police body in the nation.  This is why this murder is
 still 'unsolved.'
  >>

Well, well, well, is that so?  Sounds like you have been listening to William
Cooper, but you should be aware of some REAL "facts" before you put your foot
in your mouth further.  The man driving the Limo at the time was not named
William Harris but William Greer.  And he did not shoot the President from the
front seat.  If you look at the new video, "Image of an assassination" which
has a very clear version of the film you can see that this is not so.  UNLESS
you want to argue alteration, etc., which some have done and continue to do.
In any case the man is not Harris but Greer.  This is not the reason (or at
least is not the only reason) that this murder is still unsolved.  The real
reason is because of the governments role in the murder and their efforts to
cloak that fact.  Additionally one might want to consider the role of secret
societies in this action as well, since a lot of the men investigating the
crime and surrounding it, and prominent after the fact are all well connected
in these societies.
Check your facts before making such sweeping statements.
Teo1000

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[CTRL] Impeachment and Clinton

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

To some it will seem a radical shift but I have changed my view on this whole
issue, at least to a certain extent.  Let me explain.  I believe that there is
sufficient evidence of wrongdoing on the part of Clinton to have him impeached
solely on the charges against him.  There certainly is a LOT more behind the
scenes that he is definitely guilty of (treason, and treachery against the US
which he swore to uphold, being the most damaging).  I am now convinced
however that this whole issue should have been dropped before it began because
I don't like the puritanical emphasis that has already been the byproduct of
the whole mess.  It is going to become more like a "legislating of morality"
issue, and I don't want anyone in my life telling me how I should live and
what I may or may not do, be it sexually or otherwise.  That would apply to
Clinton as well.  I wish the whole thing had never begun, BUT since it has I
want to see it played out to the full and that means full trial and witnesses
etc.  It is my hope that some nugget of truth will fall out of the trial and
some good will come of it.  He should be impeached and [possibly hanged along
with numerous others on both sides of the party aisle for his treason, and
that should be the issue before the Senate.  It is not and that is too bad.
Clinton is scum but now I wish that they had just let him alone from the
start.  It is too late for that so on with the show, the whole nine yards.  If
we don't have a full trial then it is garbage, I can't decide whether
witnesses may be used against me in a trial and neither should he or anyone
else.  Otherwise it makes a mockery of justice.
Let us all hope now that this will create a steamroller effect that will clear
Washington of ALL of the traitors and scum and we can start fresh, that is
really the only acceptable outcome.  Not very likely, huh?
Disgustedly
Teo1000

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Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/9/99 4:30:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< You own the list. You can do what ever you want with it. However,
 your banning Hawk from the list without even a warning or and ending to
 that particular thread is objectionable to me. Will I be next? Now I
 will have to be looking at everything I write and wonder if I will be
 cut off for writing it. I don't know if your cutting him from the list
 is because of what you stated or if it was because you did not wish to
 deal with an arguement you had firmly planted in your mind and did not
 wish to have shaken. I personally do not recall a passage in the Bible
 which condemns slavery even though my own code of ethics precludes it.
 Perhaps a deeper understanding of the moral code of 3,000 years ago and
 its relationship to that of today would be useful. I don't know. But
 apparently we aren't going to be discussing it here.

 best wishes, Howard Davis >>

I beg to differ with you here.  Kris did indeed warn him and all others about
the rhetoric, and has on several occasions made his wishes known as far as
what is acceptable and what is not on this list.  The use of the bible and
other religious material for the furtherance of ones own particular viewpoints
is off topic here and smacks of proselytizing and if you will look at the
disclaimer in every post this is clearly forbidden.  Personally I would have
done the same, but maybe would have added a few other people to the list as
well.  Kris does an admirable job here having to deal with so much garbage
makes the job that much harder.  This list is about conspiracy theory, get it?
If not, bye, bye.
Thanks
Teo1000

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Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/9/99 12:51:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<<  Political and religious 'stances'
 discussions are subjects based upon 'personal' 'beliefs' and continual
 battlement on these subjects deter our study of 'social history and the
forces
 behind the scenes. >>

They are no win arguments that just go on and on, and that is why they should
not be discussed here because they take away space that could be better served
discussing other things that can be useful to everyone on the list.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Re: [CTRL] Impeachment and Clinton

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/10/99 9:12:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< I'm confused...I thought you always supported an impeachment and trial...

  >>

I did.  However I am more concerned now that this is turning into a morality
play where the real issues of treason and, etc., are ignored.  I want the man
brought down but not by a sham that is just put up to protect others who are
doing the same thing.  My wish is now, in retrospect, that it had never
started, BUT since it is here then I insist on the whole nine yards; trial,
witnesses, etc.
My problem is with the mentality that pervades all of this and that is that
this is about sex (you and I both know that is not the issue here but Joe Blow
apparently thinks it is) and the possibility that this will turn into more
laws infringing upon my freedom to do what I want without people peering into
every area of my life.  That is the main problem I have with it all.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Impeachment and Clinton

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/10/99 9:12:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Then, Teo, you are allowing them to win...

 Not only do you let them get away with the 'wrongdoing' you admit you
 believe was done, you let them get away with the blatant blackmail they
 are conducting...

 The answer is to NOT just drop it all...do you really think they will
 stop the 'wrongdoing' if the watchdogs go away?

  >>

I am not for dropping anything, just, now, wish that the whole thing had never
begun in the first place.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Using the Bible and other things. . .

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

First it is not improper to "use the Bible" to support your theories, but this
list is about CONSPIRACY THEORY it is not about which religion to follow.  If
you have a conspiratorial contribution to make and wish to use the Bible to
make your point then feel free to do so, I don't think anyone will object.
What is strictly not allowed is utilizing the Bible to support religious
positions and attempt in that way to hit others over the head with their
"error" for not believing what you say.  There is no proselytizing here,
period.  Even religious conspiracy is okay to discuss, but never will it be
tolerated where it is used to try and belittle others beliefs, BELIEFS are not
to be questioned, WHY? Because they cannot be confirmed or denied, they are a
matter of PERSONAL FAITH and that is not an appropriate thing to be discussed
here.  It always leads to more and more arguments which take up more and more
space and in the end a lot of people are hurt and nothing is resolved.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] China still considers US a nuclear threat

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

Well, since China still considers us a threat then they must be REALLY happy
that they bribed Clinton and Gore and others for all of the fancy gadgetry
that make it easier for them to destroy us.  What a wise investment on their
part, don't you think?
Teo1000

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==
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Re: [CTRL] Impeachment and Clinton

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/12/99 9:50:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< I'm also surprised by your " this whole issue should have been dropped
before
 it began" sentiments. Before Bill was impeached everyone was saying he would
 never be impeached. Now they're saying he won't be removed from office
because
 they don't have the votes. If other evidence can be introduced from testimony
 via witnesses vis a vis the major acts of treason associated with Clinton's
 Presidency then he may be removed, and ironically, for the right reasons.
 Let's not forget that along with his litany of major and minor crimes I'm
 convinced he knew about the OKC bombing before-hand and used the murder of
168
 people, devastating the lives of hundreds more, to vilify "militia's",
 "patriot's", talk radio and anybody else who was critical of his Presidency;
 the main objective was of course to push "The Anti-Terrorism Bill" which had
 stalled in Congress. The Bill gave unprecedented powers to the President and
 law enforcement. There is no crime, no principle, no moral, no life that he
 won't sacrifice in order to further the agenda's of the people who put him
 there. That is why he has to go. Gavin. >>

Gavin, for all the peripheral reasons that you mention I am all for carrying
this through, it is just disheartening to see it turn into a big cover-up to
protect others in the government.  It is my hope that more will come out and
many more will go down but it is not likely.  My concern is that this is
turning into a morality issue, one in which the government will decide what
moral position is "acceptable" and what one is not, which is EXACTLY where we
stand now (even though those of us in the know, so to speak, know that it has
nothing to do with the real issues in this whole debate).  The government
intrudes in my life enough, WAY too much in fact, right now and I don't want
to give them any more opportunities to do so.  That is my concern.  I am
frustrated that the real issues were not brought up immediately and that be
the focus of this investigation.
Teo1000

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==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Re: [CTRL] NSA Bans Furbies

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/13/99 2:39:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< Jesus Christ people The NSA didn't ban it from the country or even stop its
 employees from owning one. It just stopped its employees from bringing them
 into the building due to the fact that classified material is discussed and
 could be repeated by the Furby.
  >>

Jesus Christ yourself, it is just a little fun.  I don't think anyone is
saying that the Furby's are an alien plot to overthrow us or anything . . .
then again maybe they are. . . Furry, Furry, Furry. . . .
Teo1000

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Re: [CTRL] Loop hole?

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/10/98 6:38:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<<  What's a few thousand dead
 soldiers as long as the liar is sexually pure?  Prudy
  >>

Once again I suppose Clinton's acts of aggression are like the Jihad, they are
sacred and any who died in them are going to heaven since all he does is
sacrosanct?
Teo1000

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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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Re: [CTRL] I'm back!

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/10/98 11:07:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Many moons ago I had to bow out from participation in CTRL because of
 other work chores in conspiracy research, namely finishing my manuscript
 on the Maury Island case. I am happy to report that I have turned that
 manuscript in to IllumiNet now and should be able to join the discussion
 again. I don't know how long this will last, since CTRL seems to have
 increased in volume of mail and a still have other tasks awaiting. But
 for now I am happy to renew CTRL acquaintances and add my share to the
 free-for-all.

 Kenn Thomas
 Steamshovel Press >>

Welcome back Kenn!!  I will be looking forward to the book on Maury Island UFO
case.  Is there anything else that you have come across recently that is
fodder for discussion here?
Is Steamshovel back in production yet?
Teo1000

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Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/10/98 12:00:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Organizations, being made up of
 people, tend to evolve over time, and I feel that it is quite possible
 that over generations that information, power and control can be lost.
 How do you know that this has not happened? >>

If I may jump in here.  There is no way to "know" such things.  I would,
however, point to the builder's of the Egyptian Pyramids.  It is my belief
that they excercised a great deal of control in their day and that they kept
their technology absolutely secret, even 'til today.  Secrecy is easy to
maintain when the members of the group are recruited for having the very same
drives and motivating forces in their lives, thus it is in thier OWN best
interests to keep it a secret.  Of course in mentioning the PoS I would ask
you, if this is true, why don't we know something SOLID about this group, who
some of the members are, etc. . . it would seem that if what you say is true
then some of it would have come out (mind you Holy Blood Holy Grail has some
info. on this BUT it is highly suspect by many).
The Kennedy assassination is a much better example.  Even you must admit that
there were many people involved in that one and we the people still have no
PROOF of anything.  We know it was a conspiracy but that is about all, why
didn't this one fall apart?  The CIA still has stuff classified in it's files
from 50 years ago, so secrecy can and is routinely kept for long periods of
time.  The secrecy itself is part of the problem, it begets itself and leads
to more secrecy which Usually leads to nefarious activity.
Teo1000

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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/10/98 12:59:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Maybe the PoS doesn't exist now except as a red herring.. (maybe).
 Maybe the Kennedy assassination hasn't been revealed because the one's
 who could do the revealing are the ones who did it.  I'm not saying that
 this isn't possible, just that we need to work towards verifiability.
 Always ask yourself.. WWMD (What would Mulder do).  There needs to be
 verifiability before any of this means anything.  To think you know
 something is not sufficient in my eyes.  I feel we need something to
 point at that is valid. >>

You certainly have a point, but the disemination of knowledge is the least of
what can be done.  When a tidbit falls down to us we should work on it.
Sometimes we can't always KNOW the facts, and simply must speculate.
Teo1000

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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/14/99 11:38:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< I don't believe this sh++ !  It is so juvenile, I don't know much about
this
 person, but no one should be badgered like this, is this acceptable on this
list
 ?  If so I suppose I could do this toowhere are you coming from...take it
 private.(the only reason my private post got sent to the list, is because I
was an
 oversight, received some bad news and my concentration was not there)

 But this is a deliberate attempt to disrupt this list, which I have been
accused
 of.

 Carlene

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>

Carlene, you need to realize something.  RoadsEnd, otherwise known as Kris
Milligan IS THE LIST OWNER and chief moderator/editor, therefore he can do
anything he wants.  Additionally do you think he is going to sit idly by while
people make ridiculous statements in support of slavery using the Bible for
justification?  Kris is merely calling the kettle black and asking him to
answer his legitimate questions.
Thank you.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/15/99 1:36:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< With name calling ??
 Oh !!! Ok...but then ...I am confusedhe did not want any talk about the
Bible,
 and name calling on the listbut there is a discussion going on...oh never
 mind.but thanks...for your information.

 Carlene >>

I thought this issue was satisfactorily addressed, why is it that you are
having a hard time with it?  Calling someone a hypocrite when they are one is
not name calling it is merely telling it like it is.  Discussion of the Bible
WHEN IT IS USED TO PROSELYTIZE, OR ARGUE BELIEFS, AND OR FAITH IS NOT
APPROPRIATE FOR THIS LIST.  Using the Bible in arguing CONSPIRACY THEORY is
acceptable, or to try and support ideas that are related to conspiracy theory.
You want to argue religious conspiracy, like how Paul, formerly known as Saul,
becomes the chief proponent of "Christianity" and an Apostle when he never met
the Lord, and worked so much evil against the nascent church, that is okay.
You want to argue how Paul's writing contradict those of Jesus on a number of
points, or perhaps how he seemed to have many friends in Rome and may not have
suffered as he would have everyone believe, that is okay too.  Arguments that
point out Paul's reliance upon the Mystery religions, such as Mithras and
Attis worship for the main forms of religious expression in "Christianity"
would also be acceptable.  These are only examples of course, and many others
would also have equal validity as things that might require the Bible to
support the position.  No proselytizing is allowed, so questions of faith and
belief are not acceptable.  The reason that Kris is going into the Bible
himself is that he is trying to illustrate the hypocrisy of Hawk in his
statements regarding slavery.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Striped Sleeves Mean Impeachment Is Military?

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

Thanks Brian!  That was a great post.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Striped Sleeves Mean Impeachment Is Military?

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/15/99 7:22:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<<  In 1994, Perrine played the
 role of the Lord Chancellor in "Iolanthe" on a night when Rehnquist was in
 the audience. Afterwards, the Chief Justice had the gold-striped Lord
 Chancellor's robe copied. Perrine also performed in "Patience" in 1986, when
 Rehnquist had a walk-on part. (Note: The Victorian Lyric Opera Company is
 performing "Princess Ida" by Gilbert and Sullivan weekdays from February 17
 through March 7. For more information, contact 301-879-0220.) (3:00)
 -- >>

Well, it doesn't say how long afterward it was copied, or whether he ever wore
it during other proceedings.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] JFK MURDER SOLVED - The truth after 35 years . . .

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/17/99 3:49:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Go ahead folks.  Bring it on.  Start with character assination and name
 calling and attempts at discrediting.  I challenge all to tell me why I
 shouldn't report this here.  Incidentally, I backed this video up and
 forwarded it enough times to witness this about forty times.  Some time ago,
 someone sent me to a website that was supposed to let me know what really
 happened in response to an allusion that the driver was complicit and a
 murderer, a political assassin.  At this site, I saw an image of the very
 situation I here describe and I saw the gun.  Apparently, the photo was not
 intended.  I reported to the webmaster that that very photo contradicted his
 take on it and now the website no longer exists.  
  >>
The idea that the Zapruder film has been tampered with is still an issue that
is brought up by researchers all the time, so it is possible that much
happened that we don't know about or can't rightly comment on.  But I just
think you are wrong.  The driver did not kill Kennedy, that is not to say that
he did no wrong for even if he did nothing more than the dramatic slow down
that many witnesses attest to (or a full stop as some researchers claim) it
was bad enough.  The new Video Kenn Thomas mentions is a great one to take a
look at, you should be able to rent it at a Blockbuster near you, "Image of an
assassination".
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Court kills suit on seized property

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

Well, this does not help matters much but of course ignores the real issue of
the unconstitutionality of the whole seizure issue.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Why Can't Cameras Show Senators?

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/17/99 11:11:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< I stand in awe of the way you weave every subject imaginable into the
 pattern of your never ending story.  Are you capable of writing about
 ANY theme without reducing it to bad Republicans and saintly Democrats?  If
 so, please have mercy on us all.

 Barb
 > >>

Thank you Barb!  You have reiterated a comment that I have made vis a vis
Prudy's remarks before.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: [BIOWAR] Foreign Affairs: U.S. 'needs' Saddam

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

Gee do we need him?  Wow, what a revelation, I guess none of us here knew
this.  Of course we need him, and when we first needed him we had good old
George Bush, first "under" Reagan then as the big cheese himself building him
up with weapons (Carter had a hand in this too) and technology to fight the
evil Iran.  We MADE him, and we NEED him, therefore he will be around as a
"thorn" in our sides for some time to come.  BTW, Glaspie's go ahead to
Sadaam, vis a vis Kuwait is a classic indicator of our true purposes and
motives, make him, build him up, war with him and knock him down, allow him to
build back up again and so on, and so on, etc.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] JFK MURDER SOLVED - The truth after 35 years . . .

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/18/99 10:37:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<<  It was a man's voice that I heard say it.  At the time I turned
 to my husband and said, "Connally was in on it.  He knew something was going
 to happen, and he was afraid he hadn't been included in quite all the plan."
 Prudy >>

Prudy, I am inclined to agree with you here.  I believe Connally was in on it,
or at least knew a LOT more than he ever let on.  With good reason perhaps
since he probably would have been killed otherwise.  Jackie did go out onto
the trunk to get a piece of skull IMO, after viewing the movie several times
it appears so.  Look at her arm movement it clearly looks like she is reaching
for something, not like she is trying to get away.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Racists . . .

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/18/99 11:03:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< Well, I guess I am gonna have to change my Declaration & Disclaimer to read
-
 nazis and racists need not apply.

 I am deleting both hawk and charlene from the list. They may go start their
 own racist list somewhere else.  I do not have to have their disruptive
 activity on this list.


 Om
 K >>

CLAP, CLAP, CLAP  Good riddance.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Racists . . .

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/18/99 1:49:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< Just the other day I got this e-mail from Hawk in regards to a theory I
 had concerning the arguement referenced below. Here it is:

 Hawk wrote:
 >
 > "Howard R. Davis III" wrote:
 >
 > > Hawk, Carlene:
 > >I just realized how this guy works. Whenever he cannot defend his
 > > possition he uses name calling and derision. Then, if responded to with
 > > more rational arguements he responds again with more name calling and
 > > derision. Eventually the person he is argueing with responds in kind and
 > > then he responds by calling that person unreasonable and disruptive
 > > using quotes from that person to prove his point.
 >
 > Howard... you are one smart dude!  You're right... of course you're right.
I kept
 > wondering why, when I'd answer his questions with a reasoned approach, he'd
come
 > right back saying "Hypocrite didn't answer my question!  He's a fraud, a
liar,"
 > etc... You're on target with your evaluation of his tactic.
 >
 > hawk


  >>
If you wish to support him feel free to go join him off the list.  He is gone,
and it does not matter why or how, further discussion is pointless.  You want
to talk with the man talk until you are blue in the face, about racism,
slavery, or whatever else you want.  Thankfully it will not be on this list so
I won't have to see it.  Furthermore this list belongs to Kris (RoadsEnd)
THEREFORE you are here at his discretion.  He is EXTREMELY TOLERANT and has
put up with a lot of shit over the life of this list and dealt with people
just like Hawk before.  NOW, if you don't like the way he runs things, TAKE A
HIKE.  He does what he does and with good reason, but even if he did it
arbitrarily, who are you to tell him that he can't do it that way, he is the
boss, so like it or lump it.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] FW: NUFOIA: Doc Barry: 1927-1999

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/18/99 2:48:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< Doc Barry is now taking that mysterious journey all of us will have to take
 at some point in the not-too-distant future. I am sure that, as soon as he
 gets acclimated to his current time/space location/level, he will be
 continuing to illuminate and SHOCK the masses over there by telling them
 What's up!

 Doc Barry enjoyed the respect of many people, including myself. In memory
 of Doc Barry I will continue to keep a link to his web site, and I am
 pleased that someone is going to be continuing to maintain that site.

 FAREWELL to a Cyber Space Friend. >>

Well, he was briefly on board here, and while I didn't always agree with what
he had to say it was good to have his point of view.  I'm sure many will miss
him.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] Pontificating Big Spooks]

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/21/99 7:38:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< But there's another factor operating in my presence on the list. It is
 precisely my background in intelligence and related matters that brings me
 here, *because I know damn well that conspiracies make the world go round.
 It's not one overarching Illuminati or Luciferian or Satanic or Jewish or
 Lutheran or any other kind of group behind the scenes; rather, it's a
 hodge-podge of all sorts of self-defined elites and wannabes, who claim--and
 maybe believe--that they really do run things... And sometimes they wind up
 cooperating, sometimes they compete, sometimes they just cancel each other
 out. And it's virtual places like CTRL that provide the best vantage points
 from which to observe and study these various conspiracies.

 I remember that years ago some friends of mine in the Catholic Resistance
came
 up, quite accidentally, with a marvelous typo: they issued a statement in
 which they spelled "conspiracy" CONSPIRICY--in other words, not those who
 breathe together, but those who share the same Spirit. I like to think of
 CTRL, on good days, as a *conspiricy.*

 Bob
  >>

Excellent comments Bob!  I'm sure that Kris would like to say that the secret
societies are more in charge than you would allow here, and I would agree with
him at least a little ;)  but there is truth in both scenarios.  I for one
believe that there IS an overarching group of controllers, if you will, that
does indeed run the show, but they are completely hidden (at least their
affiliations are, heck you may even know one of them, or be on of them for all
I know).  The other groups, or types you have identified are going about their
own agendas thinking that they are the REAL elites, but they are subtly being
manipulated by the TRUE hidden rulers.  Sometimes there are competing theses,
etc., but in the end the will of the true masters is always served.  Too much
time around for such NOT to have developed, and as for origins I look at least
as far back as ancient Egypt, the priesthood which guarded all of the
technology and information from the uninitiated.
Thanks
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Pontificating Big Spooks

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/21/99 8:59:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Also, I wasn't aware that the purpose of this list was to be a
 'contribution to Global understanding'...I thought it was devoted to
 Conspiracy Research, hence actually more EXCLUSIVE than INCLUSIVE of
 global humanity...
  >>

especially since the mainstream regards all of us as "wackos" and "crazies".
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] Pope visit

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

Apparently the Pope will be going to St. Louis and will be meeting privately
with President Clinton, but I could find nothing out about where the meeting
will take place.  The whole hangar story could very easily be a hoax.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] I'm back!

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/10/98 4:05:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< The discussion about mind control and the JFK assassination seems to be
leaving
 out what is said in the 1968 book Were We Controlled. I put together an
edition of
 that book with updated info, photos and biblio (Mind Control, Oswald and
JFK).
 There are, of course, various forms of mind control, and historical sources
 reflect that Oswald may have been connected to two, the RHIC/EDOM of Were We
 Controlled and the LSD variety. Just thought I'd throw that in to see if it
adds
 anything to this discussion about occult mind control and the assassination.
Were
 We Controlled points out that the implant mind control technology (RHIC/EDOM)
was
 already 30 years old in 1963. The Russians had been developing it since the
1930s.

 One resistance to this line of thought is that Jose DelGado, who developed
the
 technology, was only shown stopping a bull with an implant/stimoceiver
device, not
 causing it to pick up and shoot a rifle. So what if it was used to stop
Oswald? We
 have photos of someone (possibly Lansdale) walking south as the tramps are
walking
 north, with a radio control device behind his ear. There's another radio
 controller next to umbrella man by the Stemmons freeway sign. This could be
radio
 telecommunications, but it could also be stimoceiver instructions to turn off
some
 of the gunmen when the best shots had already been taken.

 (2)
  >>

Thanks Kenn.  I have, and read the book in question.  I find it eminently
plausible that there was such control in use at the time, and I do believe
that Oswald may have been the recipient of such technological wizardry.  The
other interesting angles in the case involve all of this secret society and
sacrifice stuff.  I think that there is a connection between the two (mind
control and secret societies) as the secret societies are usually after the
control of society at large, but covertly.  Sirhan Sirhan and Brehmer (not
sure if that is how his name is spelled, the guy who shot at Ford), Hinckley,
and Lennon's assassin (his name escapes me at the moment) are ALL good
examples of Mind Control at work in political assassinations (or attempts).
Personally I'd like to see more on this at some point, AND I would LOVE to see
more work done on what George Bush was doing during all of these events.  I
think he is a KEY player.  What can I say, the JFK assassination is a pet
subject of mine!
Thanks for the comments.  Any you have are most welcome.
Teo1000

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Re: [CTRL] Fw: "IT'S WHO SHOT JOHN"

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

I don't know exactly why, but this post was very disturbing to me.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] Fw: "60 Minutes" Hewitt to Personally Apologize for Airing ...

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

But they cancelled the story on the US poison gassing of our own people in
Vietnam.  How is it that they can make any decisions when they are such
idiots?
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

Kris is the one who referred people to the site in question (Nizkor)which
debunks much anti-jew propaganda particularly the holocaust revisionists.
This list is limited to 100 posts per day total, for all members.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Pope to Meet w/Clinton in Hanger to View Alien Craft?

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/22/99 12:26:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< I'm not sure if its a atual story or not, or just a theory, but I once read
 that Demons and/or Monsters faced by those in the far flung past (read:
 mythological or historical times) may have in fact been aliens and not
 Demons or Monsters. If true I don't know. If it is a [printed] story, does
 anybody know who its by & its name??

  >>
Sounds like Zecharia Sitchin and others like Van Danniken who believe that
aliens visited earth in the past and were mistaken as demons and the like, as
well as being the source of ancient technology.  A bunch of hooey, IMO.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] John Ramsey search

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

While doing a little online searching via Dogpile using the query John +
Ramsey, so I could get some info. on the companies he worked for or built and
some history of the case I got an interesting result.  The search results for
Webcrawler were numbered at 666!!  The devil must be involved!!
Strange coincidence, no?!
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Pope to Meet w/Clinton in Hanger to View Alien Craft?

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/23/99 2:35:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< sounds like you need to read the material before you form such an informed
 opinion. i have read most of his stuff abeit was a number of years ago but
 it reformed my whole worldview of the ancient world. sitchin's books are
 simply current translations of hittite clay conuiform (sp) tablets and
 many others. there are particularly engravings of  ancient space capsules.
 adam was developed by gene-splicing in the womb of astarte for 11 months
 in attempting to create a semi intelligent work beast, by splicing her
 genes with those of a chimpanze. eve was made from adams genes. i recall
 further that outside of athens there is a stone rectangular block taken
 from hundred of miles away that weighs in the area of either 1,200 or
 12,000 (i forget which, but either would be impressive even by today's
 technology) tons. it is carefully laid at an angle that would allows for
 particular kinds of take-offs from the planet. it speaks of the gods going
 hither and thither betwixt the earth and the skies on a regular basis.

 pair these with all of the relics we have of the ancient world and it is a
 little more believable than by putting it off to fanciful ancient
 imaginations.

 check the material out, you will not be disappointed.

 chris

  >>

I'll admit that I have not read the material thoroughly or completely.  But I
am familiar with it.  At least enough to comment.  You, of course would be
aware that many academics have called into question whether Sitchin is as good
a Sumerian scholar as he leads people to believe.  Contact DasGoat on this
issue since he has provided me with some interesting information regarding his
knowledge of Sumerian.  Apart from some questions regarding his level of
knowledge I still think the theory, as the one in "The Gods of Eden", and much
of what Van Danniken propose is unsupportable.  A lot of times these scholars,
because of their obvious bias refuse to look at alternative explanations for
things that they interpret a special way, which in this case is
extraterrestrial in origin, at least according to them.  Mind you, it might be
true, but there simply is no evidence to support such things.  In the absence
of evidence it is nothing but interesting speculation (something that I find
intriguing too, but cannot embrace as factual, which is my opinion on much of
the conspiracy dogma being bandied about, particularly in the conspiracy of
history area, especially when such one sided arguments are proposed i.e.; the
aliens did it all, aliens fill in the role of the "missing link" these days.)
Still thanks for your input, it is always welcome.  What is most interesting
in this whole scenario to me is the fact that the proponents of an alien
interventionist agenda, and a person who supports the ETH of UFO origin, and
those who "believe" that alien abduction is really abduction by non-human
intelligences from another place, are the MOST dogmatic in support of their
pet theory and will usually brook no truck with the opposition (such as
perfectly human origin for the phenomena).  They are the ones who are
completely unreasonable.  Mind you I'm NOT saying that your are in this group,
just pointing out something for you to consider.  Myself I don't believe in
other life elsewhere or that we have been visited by alien intelligences from
elsewhere, and that is because of lack of evidence that is convincing or
conclusive.  HOWEVER, I don not make a dogmatic and blanket denial of the
possible reality of such beings, they may, in fact, exist, but I feel more
comfortable resting on evidence rather than on speculation.  At least in this
matter!!  (Note I reserve the right to ignore this injunction if an off the
wall theory really catches my eye!  :)  )
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Pope to Meet w/Clinton in Hanger to View Alien Craft?

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/23/99 11:38:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< i am well aware of dasgoat's position on these matters and for the most
 part we agree. my position is not to believe everything and to believe
 everything. sitchin's writings provide a better explanation for what is,
 than the creationists or the evolutionists. evolution is more likely to
 have taken certain leaps than not. i believe also that the evidence is out
 there but is being concealed, along with certain ufo connected stuff. it
 is almost like this is the ultimate conspiracy because it denies us our
 celestial roots.
 maybe it is because this stuff has been with me for so long but i cannot
 even consider the possibility that it is any other way. in this belief i
 am connected to my roots. i do not know if you have had any advanced
 courses in halucinagenics but; in that realm there is no other
 explanation. that halucinagenics exist at all is a testiment to higher
 consciousness and higher beings. i could loose all of this belief at the
 next passing thought, and i allow for that possibility but for now this is
 what i think.
 my opinion about reincarnation is pretty much the same as my belief on all
 of these matters and that is that; i could be inclined to believe it and a
 lot of people say that they have a good reason to believe it but; until i
 have a solidly good reason to believe, there will always be the question.
 edgar cayce makes a very good study but not until i find it for myself.

 it is a good thing to be skeptical about everything and then only those
 things that you are not skeptical of, get you. that is relatively true in
 almost all realms of belief.

 ramblin' guy

 chris

  >>
Well, Ramblin' guy, we do not disagree on some things!  Some comments that you
make are right up my alley.  First as to higher realms, absolutely agree but
as to definition thereof that is another question entirely.  I only have
limited experience into hallucinogenics, but your reasoning is sound based on
my knowledge.  I would clarify this concept by saying that hallucinogenics
merely enable you to cast aside the illusory sheen that overlays "reality" and
allows to you to see what is "really" there.  This implies a "higher" state of
consciousness, but is not necessarily so.  The higher nature of it is just
illusory.
I could not agree with you more about the truth being out there and being
hidden.  Your speculation as too celestial origin could be true, in many less
obvious ways than alien interference even, but for now the jury is out and
that is where I stand on the issue.  My thoughts are likewise subject to
revision at a moments notice (I used to be a fundamentalist Protestant
Calvinist after all!!)  UFO's and conspiracy go hand in hand as does the
science of origins, even in the metaphysical realm, such as postulating a
celestial origin in a scenario which features "alien" life forms actively
manipulating life on earth.  I believe that science in these areas is pretty
well compromised.  When there is so much dissension even among academics about
issues that should be settled matters one has to wonder about more
problematical ones, does one not?
Knowledge is being kept from us, that is fact.  That knowledge would be
personally soul shaking and have a global effect if released.  I believe that
UFO's are real, but they are earthly craft piloted by humans, no ET's needed.
That of course is excluding UFO's of natural origin.  HOWEVER, as soon as one
piece of evidence makes itself known (or is released since in your view such
already exists) I would be the first to hail it as a major discovery and
change my view as to "aliens".  Part of the whole UFO phenomenon is one of
societal control, a mechanism, such as that described by Jacque Vallee.  It
wants to control us and manipulate our mental energies in a certain direction,
this is tied in heavily with mind control researches and experimentation.
I appreciate your thoughts on the matter as always, feel free to contact me on
these matters any time you wish I would always be willing to discuss them with
you (or others on list).
Thanks
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
===

Re: [CTRL] Pope to Meet w/Clinton in Hanger to View Alien Craft?

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/23/99 11:38:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<<  Myself I don't believe
 >in
 >other life elsewhere or that we have been visited by alien intelligences
 >from
 >elsewhere, and that is because of lack of evidence that is convincing or
 >conclusive.  HOWEVER, I don not make a dogmatic and blanket denial of the
 >possible reality of such beings, they may, in fact, exist, but I feel more
 >comfortable resting on evidence rather than on speculation. >>

I should, perhaps, clarify my position here.  I think there are other
"intelligences" that may be involved with us humans, but they are not alien in
origin, they may occupy dimensions that are "close" to ours and be seen and
experienced at times by us.  This could be the origin of folkloric creatures,
such as werewolves, vampires, ghosts, and even aliens and UFO's.  For these
"beings" to be objectively real I think they are the essence of humans who
have entered another state of being, OR they are merely illusory themselves,
created as a backdrop to reality that is part of the collective view that we
must all live within, just like rocks, trees, or gravity, with as much or as
little significance as anything else that just "is".
I hope I haven't hopelessly muddied my thoughts and the gist of what I
intended gets through.
:)
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] VINCE FOSTER FBI FILES RELEASED

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

I recently recieved from the FBI the "summary" report on the Foster death, in
which the entire thing (virtually) is redacted, most of which was done at the
request of Kenneth Starr in relation to his "ongoing investigation".  Attached
to the end of the report were a couple of memoranda which referred to possible
obstruction of justice in the matter, which might prove intriguing, if only I
knew who did what, and when, but alas all I have is big black rectangles.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] China condemns U.S. anti-missile project

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/24/99 8:25:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< BEIJING (January 24, 1999 9:18 a.m. EST http://www.nandotimes.com) - A
 U.S. proposal to deploy an anti-missile system will thwart world security by
 spreading military technology and spurring an arms race, a Chinese army
 newspaper said Sunday.
  >>

Gee, the Chinese are against our defending ourselves.  What a surprise.  Well,
what with all the technology that we gave them you'd think they have nothing
to fear by this anti-missile system.  Of course the Chinese are not our
enemies are they?  They are a Most Favored Nation and valued trading partner,
aren't they?  Yeah right.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] fw: 10 Facts in Respect to Alien Abductions:

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

My comments interspersed below.
Teo1000



In a message dated 1/24/99 7:37:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< Karla Turner's 10 Facts in Respect to Alien Abductions:

 1) We don't know with any certainty  exactly what these entities may be;
 they may be extraterrestrial, inter-dimensional, earthly or some combination
 of the above.
((Teo1000 comments:  I would say that most evidence points to earthly or
natural sources for the phenomenon, but do not discount the others presented
here as well.)

 2) At least some of the aliens lie. [Predictions, warnings, promises, and
 contradictions.]
((Teo1000:  This is where the psy-op and disinformation is it's thickest.
There is no evidence that we are dealing with intelligences from the stars,
and as is rightly pointed out they give us no superior knowledge or future
revelations.  This is just mind control plain and simple.  You may want to
contend that it is alien intelligences doing the mind control, but I would
dispute that point.))

 3)  During encounters, the human's perceptions are controlled as are the
 conscious memories of the encounters.
((Teo1000:  Absolutely agree.  But who is controlling and what is the desired
effect of the control.  If it is to hide their existence it is a miserable
failure, so that can be ruled out.  If it is to cause societal change or
effect mass consciousness, that is working perfectly.  Mass psy-op to prepare
the people for some revelation, that in MO has nothing to do with aliens from
space.))

 4) False memories can overlay and disguise the actual events of an
 encounter.
((Teo1000:  True, again though, with what purpose and goal.))

 5) Abductees report alien controlled information to the  research
 community.  While reporting their experiences honestly and sincerely,
 abductees are really reporting alien-controlled data.
((Teo1000:  There are too many controlled people in the movement and that is
why it is doomed for useful information.))

 6)  There is a serious element of human involvement in the abduction
 phenomenon, in addition to the very real alien participation.  Many
 abductees are monitored and harassed by human agents of some sort and the
 cases involving phone and mail interference, helicopter surveillance are
 only part of the story.
((Teo1000:  Human involvement, absolutely.  I have a problem with "very real
alien participation".  Psy-op and cover for illegal human experimentation with
mind control devices and classes of "less than lethal" weapons, in real world
situations, is the more probable solution.  Aliens are the bugaboo for illegal
governmental experimentation.  There may be aliens but I've seen no good proof
yet.))

 7)  The abduction agenda involves quite physical aims and procedures that
 belie the idea of a primary spiritual motivation on the aliens part, as well
 as refuting the notion that all they're doing in their agenda is
 crossbreeding. There are physical procedures and aims that have nothing to
 do with reproduction.  These include:

   various types of implants in parts of the body;
   insertion of wires and tubes into the chest, kidneys wrist and knees;
   brain operations, deliberate pain experiments (ouch!);
   abductees immersed in water, forced ingestion eating or drinking of
 unknown fluids, cloning of humans et.al.
((Teo1000:  This supports the notion of illegal experimentation.  They need
tissue samples and the like to effectively gauge the tested devices on the
human body, no mystery here.  The spiritual angle in this scenario is also a
cover for much more
mundane and sinister designs.))

 8) The agenda involves long-term mental and psychological programming of the
 abductee, it targets among other concepts: our social and personal
 relationships, our sexuality, our political ideas, and our religious and
 spiritual concerns.  These are targets of programming that begin in almost
 every instance, with the abductee in early childhood.
((Teo1000:  All can be explained by implants or remote mind control
methodologies.  They are designed to influence and catalogue behavior, and
would touch on all of these areas of our lives.  No aliens needed.  I have
always wondered why would aliens care one whit about us, especially our
beliefs, sexuality and political ideas?  Makes no sense to me.))

 9) Aliens through technology create virtual reality scenarios that are
 absolutely real to the perceptions of the targeted person.  All five senses
 are involved.
((Teo1000:  Virtual reality is used, but again, there is no need for alien
involvement here.))

 10) The aliens show an extraordinary interest in human souls and in using
 those souls.  [Soul recycling centers, black boxes, etc.]
  >>
((Teo1000:  No objective truth of this statement, just hearsay of those
involved in the phenomenon.))

Mind you I'm ready and willing to revise my opinion on alien life and
intervention on earth, just

Re: [CTRL] Free Speech Is Whatever the Government Allows

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/26/99 1:43:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< > But the FDA has
 > relied on the commercial speech doctrine for its underlying authority,
 > and proceeded in its rulemaking to only approve claims for which there
 > is "significant scientific agreement".

 What the fuck is wrong with that??? >>

Please Joshua@ you are not telling us that you believe in the FDA?!?!?  The
agency that is run by ex-corporate shills?  Please tell us it ain't so.  As to
what the fuck is wrong with that I say that my two questions posed above are
all the answer that some would need.
Teo1000

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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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[CTRL] Clinton's fascistic agenda

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

>From http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~gjackson/USReport.html

Enjoy
Teo1000

US
Report
   Telling it like it is

The New Australian
Clinton's Fascist vision for America
By James Henry
No. 104,   25- 31 January 1999
The state of American education being what it is, the vast majority of people
are totally incapable of recognising a fascist economic program, even when it
is used to slap them in the face. This is because they have not been taught
that fascism means state direction of the economy, cradle to grave 'social
security', complete control of education, government intervention in every
nook and cranny of the economy — and the belief that the individual belongs to
the state. This was Clinton's State of the Union vision, which is why those
chowder-heads that call themselves journalists loved it. People cannot grasp
that fascism is socialism because they have not been taught to distinguish
between form and substance. They do not realise that once the state controls
everyone's property that property now belongs to the state because control is
ownership, no matter who possesses the deeds. In this situation, might is
right.

Clinton's audacious plan to confiscate the earning of Americans so that
politicians like himself and Hillary (the couple that helped empty the Madison
Guaranty in Arkansas) can use them to gradually socialise the economy is a
typical statist tactic and one to be expected from the Clintons. This is no
exaggeration. Just reflect for a moment on his proposal to save social
security by investing taxpayers' money in the stock market. By controlling a
company's shares the state would come to own the company. It would not even
have to control a majority of the shares. It would then dictate where the
company would invest, in what it would invest and where it would invest. This
is precisely how Mussolini and Hitler ran their economies. The term for this
is central planning.

But America is different, or so the likes of Dan Rather and Gerald Rivero
would claim. But does anyone imagine for a moment that the likes of Bill and
Hillary would hesitate to use that power? Does anyone think that the huge
bureaucratic machinery it would give birth to would not us the power? Also
business funding for free-market publications, organisations, foundations and
think tanks would quickly dry up. Under his scheme investment would become a
function of the state, just as it was in the late Soviet Union. Politicians
and bureaucrats playing at being entrepreneurs with trillions of dollars. That
such policies have always resulted in the destruction of liberty, economic
collapses and mass poverty would not faze the Friends of Bill Club,
particularly if they figured they would get slice of the action. One only has
to think of what the Clintons did to Arkansas. No wonder Greenspan is still in
a state of shock.

That Clinton has only contempt for the mass of Americans was made clear by his
arrogant statement that "We [I love the Royal We] could give [the surpluses]
all back to you and hope you spend it right . . . But if you don't spend it
right" Social Security are shortfalls are "just 14 years away." Let us dissect
this statement. Clinton is literally telling Americans they are too dumb to
know how to spend their own money. (I guess his poll results gave him that
idea). Americans are losing nearly 50 per cent of their incomes to all levels
of government, with Washington grabbing 21 per cent, the highest in the
nation's history. And it's going to get worse. And what are the Clinton
Democrats' solutions? Massive government intervention combined with massive
increases in government spending. No wonder personal savings have collapsed.

How dare this lying hypocrite tell the American people they are too dumb to
save when his own profligate proposals would see trillions wasted on huge
government programs designed to buy a Senate acquittal and shore up the
support of the faithful. He claims Americans are irresponsible, yet his
programs would consume not only every penny of the surplus but would increase
federal spending by at least 20 percent, lead to another era of budget
deficits, large-scale government borrowings and massive tax increases. Now
politicians have a choice with surpluses: they can either spend them, which
then results in more deficits unless spending is cut, or they can return the
money to its rightful owners. Democrats have once again shown which kind they
are.

This is what Adam Smith had to say about Clinton's arrogant proposals:

"It is the highest impertinence and presumption . . . in Kings and ministers
to pretend to watch over the economy of private people . . . Let them look
well after their own expense, and they may safely trust private people with
theirs. If their own extravagance does not ruin the state, that of their
subjects never will."

"The statesman, who should a

Re: [CTRL] Choose a Leader

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/27/99 1:22:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< Candidate C: is a decorated war hero.  He's a vegetarian,
  doesn't smoke, drinks an occasional beer and hasn't had any
  illicit affairs.
  >>

Hitler was not a vegetarian.  This is mere urban legend.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Om

Re: [CTRL] [Re: [CTRL] Choose a Leader]

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/28/99 12:17:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 > Hitler was not a vegetarian.  This is mere urban legend.

 Sorry, Teo, but it's not urban legend. Hitler *was* vegetarian. He commented
 on more than one occasion, with great approval, that the largest and
strongest
 land animal, the elephant, was vegetarian. See any good biography of Hitler,
 e.g. Alan Bullock, *Hitler: A Study in Tyranny.*

 Bob >>

I thought so too, but in a recent issue of Fortean Times (I can't find the
copy right now) they dismissed the story, relying upon comments made by people
close to Hitler who commented on his meat eating.  I can't find the reference
right now but the article quoted people who were very familiar with Hitler and
they said that he liked to eat meat at least on occasion.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Test

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

Test

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/7/98 4:27:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Let me get this straight. The list directions ban any discussion about
 whether the TV/Hollywood version of the Holocaust are true and accurate,
 but the list allows members to assert the disproven contention that Zyklon
 B was used to gas people en masse during World War II. Has anyone on this
 list ever heard of the Leuchter report? This is real scientific research,
 and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the buildings being passed off
 as gas chambers at Auschwitz and several of the other camps were devoid of
 traces of any poison gas. (This is not deny that millions were abused and
 treated unjustly, and killed unjustly, during WWII by Hilter's Nazi regime.
 I always say that even one person killed unjustly is too many, especially
 if it is you.) Put for a list claiming to be involved in serious inquiry of
 history, it seems to me that you either have to ban all discussion of a
 subject, or to allow rational discussion of that subject from all sides.
 Would anyone care to further explain this list's position on that point?
  >>

I'd be less than happy to explain, since this has been brought up ad nauseum.
It would be all well and good to say that such things should be discussed
freely and let the members decide what to believe, but it is the nature of
such people (Holocaust deniers) to overtake the list and jam up all
communication on it perverting it to the exclusive discussion of their own
twisted views.  The Leuchter report has been debunked by others, and only has
as much weight as any other piece of evidence.  I think there is sufficient
evidence to indicate that Zyklon B and other gases were used against the Jews
and other undesireables to kill them.  The fact even that the so-called gas
chambers are not specifically designed for gassing is inconsequential.  It is
pretty apparent that the Germans were trying to keep things secret, they
didn't want to alert anyone that they were committing genocide and mass murder
and have even more people after them.  I believe that there is enough evidence
to indicate that they gassed, shot, used carbon monoxide from running engines,
conducted experiments on, used mobile gas chambers on, tortured, worked to
death, huge numbers of Jews and others, mostly of eastern European descent,
seen as undesireable.
NOW, having said that, if you don't like that position go find out what you
can from any of the web sites devoted to the topic, or subscribe to one of the
many lists that discuss the topic, and come to your own conclusion.  The issue
is DEAD here and is not to be discussed in the revisionist manner, therefore
whether you like it or not is irrelevant, you are welcome to unsubscribe and
go onto another list which discusses such things.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Cheapening the issues

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/20/98 5:02:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< The Democrats wish to discuss issues that impact the future lives of
 Americans.  That's because they are the party of the middle class people,
 minorities, women, and the dispossessed.  The Republicans do not wish to
 discuss meaningful issues because doing so clarifies their servitude to the
 rich and privileged. >>

Yeah, and everyone who believes this is an idiot.  Democrats are no more a
part of the middle class than any republican.  They are out to serve their own
masters and support their own agenda.  How can you fail to see that?  How can
you actually claim this as fact?  Mind you I'm NOT saying the republicans are
better than you surmise only that your view of the democrats is basically full
of shit.
Sorry for bluntness, but I'm sorry for the horse manure that has graced this
list recently.  Please try to get your head out of your ass (you and your
meant in a collective sense) and finally realize that your wonderful democrats
are just a bunch of fucking shills just as much as the republicans.  To do
otherwise is to fly in the face of reason.
Thank you.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Cheapening the issues

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/20/98 5:02:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< This is the reason the Republicans and the news media keep waving red
flags,
 to titillate the public and get people to stop thinking about the interests
of
 the nation.  Thus, we hear about OJ, Jon Benet, Princess Diana, Clinton's
 sexual activity.  It is inconvenient to base a coup on sheer willfulness,
 there has to be some pseudo issue dreamed up.  Base it on sex and when that
 effort blows up in the Republican face, go to narrow legalism.  But always
the
 issues must be obscured.
  >>

What on earth have we heard about Jon Benet?  Except the repeated mantra that
the parents are not guilty.  Why?  Because they are connected.  Tell me what
you have heard about this horrible case that I have missed, please.  They have
connections to the Defense Department, and Bush and his right wing cronies
that is why they are not mentioned as suspects, except in conspiracy circles.
I personally have heard damned little about this very important issue.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Being Watched

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/21/98 9:35:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Are we being monitered on this list by the Government???

 Richard B. >>

Ever hear of Echelon?  Of course there are a couple of .gov's and .mil's who
are subscribed I'd guess.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] God Bless You, Bill and Hillary!

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

Brian Redman, you are a better man than I, but for the sake of the Holidays, I
say that neither the President nor his illegal activities nor his wife will be
able to steal MY joy this season.  I will not bless them, because they simply
don't deserve it, but until after the holidays neither will I curse them . . .
unless they murder more innocent people in the meantime . . . there I go
again. . .
Teo1000
Merry Christmas to All

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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Re: [CTRL] Stuff sitting on my scanner

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/22/98 1:06:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< 1. There is a new issue of Steamshovel, #16 and chock full of nuggets. An
 excellent interview with the founder of THE FINDERS and many other fine
 articles on all our favorites. Go out and find. >>

Kris you have to post this interview, some of us have been absolutely DYING to
get anything on the Finders for a long time now!  I will try to find the
magazine but am not optimistic.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Will bin Laden Retaliate?

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

OH, OH!  If you see the local contingent of the BATF abandon their posts at
your city's Federal Building I would run for cover!  That naughty Bin Laden
may put 2,000, no it might be 4,000, wait it could possibly be 8,000, pounds
or more, of fuel oil and ammonium nitrate outside in a Ryder truck and blow it
up.  Then we'll have to find a way to blame the radical right wing while also
condemning Bin Laden and NOT pointing out the failure of our own security.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Trade War: US vs EU

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/22/98 7:04:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< The fight involves a six-year dispute over European restrictions on the
import
 of bananas from Latin America. >>

Gosh makes you wonder who is behind this, as if we don't know. . .
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Re: [CTRL] Stuff sitting on my scanner

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/22/98 11:39:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< This looks all the world like a conspiracy to rip off Steamshovel content.
It's a
 struggle to keep the damn thing going; please don't give away the store. $6
to POB
 23715, St. louis, MO 63121 will get you a copy.

 kt
  >>
Sorry Kenn I totally forgot myself, please forgive me!  You are right,
everyone please buy the issue instead!!!
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] Homogeny

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/23/98 9:44:41 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< US media downplays links between congressional Republicans and fascists

 Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott praised white supremacist group
  >>

The fascist infiltration of government is the real story behind the story, it
is no wonder that such is not discussed in the mainstream media.  The
republicans are in the forefront in carrying on their agenda BUT the democrats
are just as much in the bag too.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

[CTRL] Steamshovel Press

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

I would like to make one other comment on this issue, that I inadvertently
asked Kris to scan for us without thinking.  There definitely is at least one
thing that we can do to keep issues before the public eye and hopefully cause
some things to be brought into the light of day, and that is to support
magazines like Steamshovel Press by buying it and spreading the word so that
it will stay in production.  I used to subscribe to it back before the printer
problems and was greatly impressed with it's content and am sure that Kenn has
kept up the same level of writing.  I have all of my magazines still and often
refer back to them.  Kenn please post the address and subscription information
again, and tell us if any back issues are available.
PS How is the Maury Island book thing going?  Did you get any good info. on
Crissman (sp?)?  I will definitely buy the book when I see it in the store.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Capitol Punishment

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/23/98 11:13:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< > Four Republican congressmen who voted to impeach
 >  President Clinton joined with those seeking presidential censure Tuesday
by
 >  urging the Senate to consider options short of removal from office.

 I'm afraid that i have to agree with those rabid Republicans who referred to
 these 4 gentlemen as sniveling hypocrites.
  >>

Didn't Clinton say that he rejected the idea of Censure (after the house voted
to impeach)?  If so let us please give him what he wants.  No censure.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Capitol Punishment

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/23/98 11:34:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< no. they are sniveling, cover their asses, thumb-in-the-dyke politicians,
 with exposes just about to spill over into the media. the whole game in
 washington is what's going to get out about whom. with blackmail stacked
 on top of extortion stacked atop of more blackmail, atop of even more
 extortion; what we in the public get is the result of a chess game played
 by many that come down to a loser or losers who lose the game. why expose
 someone's dirty laundry when you can carry them around in your pocket.
 with whom you may twist their arms with it whenever you need to have your
 way with them. it is a dirty, stinking, filthy, nasty business but
 somebody has to do it.

 chris
  >>

Precisely!!  A game, but the real players remain unseen so far.  They should
all be shot and let God sort them out.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

[CTRL] Fwd: AP Story On Hastert Cites Wrong Numbers

[Teo1000]

In a message dated 12/23/98 2:45:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< I can't access any of the lists. Would you please send out the ALERT
 below to CTRL list re today's AP story and the wrong numbers mentioned
 in the story by Jennifer Loven (the URLS are included so that you can
 take a look). I don't have access to my other e-mail account.
 Thanks!
 -Andy

 SUBJECT: AP story Reports Speaker-in-waiting Hastert Old ACU Rating
 DATE: 12.23.98

 In the AP story "Hastert a Conservative at Heart," by JENNIFER LOVEN,
 Associated Press Writer, the ACU rated Speaker-in-waiting Hastert a
 score of 88  ["The American Conservative Union gave him an 88"].
 But at http://www.conservative.org/98ratings/IL2ME.htm , of ACU's
 website, a score of 100 was given for 1998.  The 88 score was given in
 1997, from what the chart reads. Any idea why AP wrote otherwise
 --giving last year's info seems misleading?

 You can find the AP story at
 http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WAPO/19981223/V000995-122398-idx.html

 The man isn't even Speaker yet and the media's starting already!

 __
 Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

  >>




I can't access any of the lists. Would you please send out the ALERT
below to CTRL list re today's AP story and the wrong numbers mentioned
in the story by Jennifer Loven (the URLS are included so that you can
take a look). I don't have access to my other e-mail account.
Thanks!
-Andy

SUBJECT: AP story Reports Speaker-in-waiting Hastert Old ACU Rating
DATE: 12.23.98

In the AP story "Hastert a Conservative at Heart," by JENNIFER LOVEN,
Associated Press Writer, the ACU rated Speaker-in-waiting Hastert a
score of 88  ["The American Conservative Union gave him an 88"].
But at http://www.conservative.org/98ratings/IL2ME.htm , of ACU's
website, a score of 100 was given for 1998.  The 88 score was given in
1997, from what the chart reads. Any idea why AP wrote otherwise
--giving last year's info seems misleading?

You can find the AP story at
http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WAPO/19981223/V000995-122398-idx.html

The man isn't even Speaker yet and the media's starting already!

__
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Re: [CTRL] Merry Christmas Eve to all

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/24/98 6:14:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< The Best of the Seasons to all.

 Onward to the utmost of futures.

 Amen.

 Om >>

same to you and everyone.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

[CTRL] Microwaved food, no good?

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

>From Trufax.org (Leading Edge International)
Teo1000

Court Removes Gag Order from Swiss Scientist on Microwaved Food
Hans Hertel is the first scientist to conceive of and carry out a quality
study on the effects of microwaved nutrients on the blood and physiology of
human beings. This small but well-controlled study pointed the firm finger at
a degenerative force of microwave ovens and the food produced in them. The
conclusion was clear: microwave cooking changed the nutrients so that changes
took place in the participants' blood; these were not healthy changes but were
changes that could cause deterioration in the human systems. Working with
Bernard H. Blanc of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology and the
University Institute for Biochemistry, Hertel not only conceived of the study
and carried it out, he was one of eight participants. In 1991 Hans Ulrich
Hertel and a Lausanne University professor published a research paper
indicating that food cooked in microwave ovens could pose a greater risk to
health than food cooked by conventional means.

Significant changes were discovered in the blood of the volunteers who
consumed foods cooked in the microwave oven. These changes included a decrease
in all haemoglobin values and cholesterol values, especially the HDL (good
cholesterol) and LDL (bad cholesterol) values and ratio. Lymphocytes (white
blood cells) showed a more distinct short-term decrease following the intake
of microwaved food than after the intake of all the other variants. Each of
these indicators point in a direction away from robust health and toward
degeneration. Additionally, there was a highly significant association between
the amount of microwave energy in the test foods and the luminous power of
luminescent bacteria exposed to serum from test persons who ate that food.
This led Hertel to the conclusion that such technically derived energies may,
indeed, be passed along to man inductively via consumption of microwaved food.

An article appeared in issue number 19 of the Journal Franz Weber in which it
was stated that the consumption of food cooked in microwave ovens had cancer-
type effects on the blood. The article was followed by the research paper
itself.

On 7 August 1992 the Swiss Association of Manufacturers and Suppliers of
Household Appliances brought an action against the applicant in the Canton of
Berne Commercial Court. It produced an expert report by a professor at Zürich
Federal Institute of Technology from which it appeared that the applicant’s
research was worthless and his findings untenable.

As soon as Hertel and Blanc announced their results, the hammer of authority
slammed down on them. A powerful trade organisation, the Swiss Association of
Dealers for Electroapparatuses for Households and Industry, known simply as
FEA, struck swiftly. They forced the President of the Court of Seftigen,
Kanton Bern, to issue a 'gag order' against Hertel and Blanc. The attack was
so ferocious that Blanc quickly recanted his support-but it was too late. He
had already put into writing his views on the validity of the studies where he
concurred with the opinion that microwaved food caused the blood
abnormalities. Hertel stood his ground, and today is steadfastly demanding his
rights to a trial. Preliminary hearings on the matter have been appealed to
higher courts, and it's quite obvious the powers that be do not want a 'show
trial' to erupt on this issue.

In March 1993, the court handed down this decision based upon the complaint of
the FEA: "Consideration. 1. Request from the plaintiff (FEA) to prohibit the
defendant (Dr Ing. Hans Hertel) from declaring that food prepared in the
microwave oven shall be dangerous to health and lead to changes in the blood
of consumers, giving reference to pathologic troubles as also indicative for
the beginning of a cancerous process. The defendant shall be prohibited from
repeating such a statement in publications and in public talks by punishment
laid down in the law.death in connection with microwave ovens.

However, in 1998 that decision was reversed. In a judgment delivered at
Strasbourg on 25 August 1998 in the case of Hertel v. Switzerland, the
European Court of Human Rights held that there had been a violation of
Hertel's rights in the 1993 decision . Under Article 50 of the Convention, the
Court awarded the applicant a specified sum for legal costs and expenses.

The European Court of Human Rights decided that the "gag order" issued by the
Swiss courts against the Bernese scientist prohibiting him from declaring that
microwave ovens are dangerous to health was contrary to the right to freedom
of expression. In addition, Switzerland was sentenced to pay compensation of F
40,000. This decision is to put an end to judicial censorship of persons
drawing attention to the health hazards of certain products.

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion 

Re: [CTRL] vs. socialism, vs. capitalism, what now?

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/25/98 7:38:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< This seems like a cart-before-the-horse question. The FDA is staffed with
people
 from industry. Like the other government agencies, it is a weak force
compared to
 the realities of global corporatism. Monsanto could live without it--it has
no
 impact on European or Asian markets, for instance.

 kt

 kt >>

This is an excellent observation.  The FDA is run by former business men and
the businesses (like Monsanto) frequently hire former FDA workers to work for
them.  It is a blatant conflict of interest in my opinion, especially in all
the talk about Nutrasweet and other questionable foodstuffs.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

[CTRL] Government patents?

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/26/98 1:54:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< The Government holds no copyrights!  So things developed from the space
 program and other military applications go onto the market as soon as
 possible and are able to be accessed by anyone that can figure out a way of
 using them.

 This is contrary to big business that holds back on some discoveries is they
 will take money away from other areas.

 I may not have all my facts "on target" BUT the basic idea of things being
 free use that have been developed by the "Military" is true.  I am not
 referring to money, I am referring to being able to develop these items.

 Laura
  >>
I hate to disagree.  But. . .  In principle you might be right but in truth
the government has all kinds of technology that is at it's EXCLUSIVE use and
development and industry has no knowledge of whatsoever.  What do you think
the CIA and the "secret government" use in the way of advanced technology and
so-called "alien" and mind control stuff?  Plenty that the government has that
is WAY beyond what industry is working on now.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Y2K Overhype (Re: [CTRL] OEN 12/27/98)

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

This is the whole problem with this topic.  One does not know what to believe.
That is the whole point anyway.  It seems to me that what can be accomplished
with the "use" of such a thing is great.  Consider the "apocalyptic"
maundering of the "fundies", as you say.  Then consider the stoic silence of
the programmers.  There could be panic by some, anticipating something
happening even though nothing will or does happen.  This whole thing could
just be a prepared ruse in order to effect some societal change, banking as
the "controllers" would be on the panic of the misinformed and the "fundies"
who will be looking at 2000 as though it is the end.  Do I hear the term
"martial law"?
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Bill: Thanks for the 1998 Memories

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/28/98 3:26:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< Gee, i wonder if that was because your first opponent brought us the wholly
 gratuitous invasions of Panama, Somalis, and got us permanently involved with
 Iraq.  Most of us realize that the price has been steep and, at least in the
 case of Iraq, it has just begun.

 Your second opponent was also a lying philanderer (i know, the word lying is
 redundant since all philanderers lie).  The difference was that you were
 capable and knowledgeable while Dole led by compromise, no ideas put forward
-
 just draw a line in the middle of notions the media allow to be discussed.

 Jerry
  >>

I might grant you some good points but the sycophantic support of a treasonous
traitor just turns me off to anything constructive you might have to say.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Snvel snivel was Re: Echoes from the Past

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/28/98 3:21:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< Another thing those terrible liberals of the 1960s did was help to bring a
 screeching halt to the corrupt way of life of the Jim Crow south.  The battle
 for civil rights was costly and the snivelers of today can thank those who
 paid the price to achieve the openness of today's society.  Obviously,
monster
 controversial issues are still with us in the form of poverty and
environment.
 Both involve corporate exploitation and media manipulation.

 Jerry >>

Smooth move from republicans and lying and blow jobs to sixties liberals
fighting against the dreaded "Jim Crow south."  Boy you sure can't argue with
your reasoning or you'd be labeled a right wing radical racist.  Just so we
got it straight Clinton is A number one in your book, and his treason and
traitorous activities are perfectly okay?  Right?  I just want to make sure
that that is what you are saying.  Republicans bad and evil and racist,
democrats, especially Clinton, are good wholesome and for racial equality.
Have I got it right?
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

Re: [CTRL] [prj] Incredible Newsweek cover--European Union Tower ...

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/28/98 3:40:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< >  Lloyd Responds:  Here's a good revision for you:--the Pope is the head
 >  of the Beast!

 Lloyd is a fellow member of the long, boring, bombastic, legalistic posters
 club that seems to thrive on this list.  Here he is at least brief but in
 being so he has exposed his know nothing fundamentalist philosophy with great
 clarity.

 Jerry >>

Lloyd may be somewhat long winded at times, as are many here, including
myself.  BUT, everyone who studies conspiracy in international politics and
banking owes him a debt of gratitude.  The site he manages A-Albionic.com is a
VERY large and well organized site chock full of loads of good information.
Sure there are agendas in everyone, including you Jerry, but does that negate
good work done by the person in question?  Lloyd Miller is a valuable poster
here and it is my hope that he continue to contribute.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Polls

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/28/98 4:18:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< When are you Clinton haters going to stop weaseling about Clinton's
popularity
 and face the fact that the voters have elected him twice, think he is
terrific
 for the economy and conducts foreign policy much better than his recent
 predecessors?  All your awkward rationalizing does not persuade.  Polling has
 become an important statistical discipline, the practitioners know the ins
and
 outs.  You simply don't want to know the facts but the Republicans will pay
 the price in 2000.

 Jerry >>

Well, I'm sure we will all agree that Clinton is a popular man and he was
elected to office twice, and I must say I have heard more than one person say
that they hated him because he lied but if they could they would vote him back
into office yet again because they "like" him so much and he has done so much
good for our country.  We will all agree to this if you Clinton suck up
sycophants will just admit that he is a traitor, that he has committed
treason, that he is a slime, that he is a greedy bastard who sold out his
country's national security to the Chinese for a little bit of money, that he
is or was involved in drug smuggling out of Mena, that he was in bed with Bush
at least for a while, that he sold out labor with his great support for GATT
and NAFTA, and that much of everything else that he did is just a smokescreen
for 6 years of not a lot.  Let's not forget the great respect that our foreign
policy garners around the world, Madeline Albright is such a good example of
US international expertise isn't she?  William Christopher another great
example of US foreign policy know how, right?
MIND YOU I'm NOT saying that I prefer Bush or any of his ilk either because he
is much MORE of a rat and weasel than Clinton, and was able to get away with
it all to boot, which makes me "hate" him more for it.
Your sycophantic support is just as sickening as anything you attribute to the
"horrible" republicans and their "evil" "partisan" attacks against this
"goodly" and "saintly" man who is just trying to do his best for our nation.
PLEASE GIVE US ALL A BREAK!?
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

[CTRL] Be afraid, be very afraid.. . .

[Teo1000]

In a message dated 12/28/98 11:24:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Hopes for Bush to reach White House

  
   WILLY WO-LAP LAM
A powerful faction of Beijing's foreign policy establishment hopes
Texas Governor George Bush wins the race for the White House in late 2000.
 A diplomatic source in Beijing said yesterday the leadership was convinced
Vice-President Al Gore's chances of succeeding Mr Clinton had been hurt by the
spate of scandals surrounding the incumbent administration.
 A special team reporting to the Communist Party Central Committee's Leading
Group on Foreign Affairs, which is headed by President Jiang, had been
studying possible candidates eyeing the US presidency in 2000.
 Many cadres and scholars thought Mr Bush, son of former US president George
Bush, might increase Sino-US ties if he became president.
 "Beijing was upset at Clinton's troubles because it regarded the two Sino-US
presidential summits of 1997 and this year as a huge success," a Beijing
source said.
 "However, Chinese leaders also think the young Bush will pursue policies
friendly to China because of the influence of his famous father."
 As Washington's chief of mission in Beijing before diplomatic relations were
established by president Jimmy Carter in 1979, the elder Mr Bush played a key
role in improving bilateral ties.
 Analysts said as part of Beijing's long-standing policy of striking a
balance, Chinese diplomats would concentrate on building relations with Mr
Gore and Mr Bush next year.
 Mr Bush was re-elected Texas Governor with 69 per cent of the vote last
month.
 >>




look out


http://www.scmp.com/news/template/China-
Template.idc?artid=19981228023048023&top=china&template=Default.htx&maxfieldsi
ze=1487">




SCMP Internet Edition














































  
  

















































  
  
http://www.business.scmp.com/search">





















Monday  December
28  1998







Hopes for Bush to reach White House

  





  

   WILLY WO-LAP LAM
 

A powerful faction of Beijing's foreign policy establishment hopes Texas
Governor George Bush wins the race for the White House in late 2000.
 A diplomatic source in Beijing said yesterday the leadership was convinced
Vice-President Al Gore's chances of succeeding Mr Clinton had been hurt by the
spate of scandals surrounding the incumbent administration.
 A special team reporting to the Communist Party Central Committee's Leading
Group on Foreign Affairs, which is headed by President Jiang, had been
studying possible candidates eyeing the US presidency in 2000.
 Many cadres and scholars thought Mr Bush, son of former US president George
Bush, might increase Sino-US ties if he became president.
 "Beijing was upset at Clinton's troubles because it regarded the two Sino-US
presidential summits of 1997 and this year as a huge success," a Beijing
source said.
 "However, Chinese leaders also think the young Bush will pursue policies
friendly to China because of the influence of his famous father."
 As Washington's chief of mission in Beijing before diplomatic relations were
established by president Jimmy Carter in 1979, the elder Mr Bush played a key
role in improving bilateral ties.
 Analysts said as part of Beijing's long-standing policy of striking a
balance, Chinese diplomats would concentrate on building relations with Mr
Gore and Mr Bush next year.
 Mr Bush was re-elected Texas Governor with 69 per cent of the vote last
month.

Back To Top
  

  
  






  

  


Beijing was upset at Clinton's troubles because it regarded the two
Sino-US presidential summits of 1997 and this year as a huge
success





  


  








  

  
  


  

  


 
  











































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[1997]

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[h

Re: [CTRL] Snvel snivel was Re: Echoes from the Past

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/28/98 11:52:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< you seem to be stuck on dealing with the symptoms rather than the problem.
 comparable to putting a band-aid on a car wreck. you are right but you
 could be righter. your stand seems to subtract from the greater issues and
 irregardless of where you stand on this, you should be aware of who you
 are standing next to and mindful of whose company your opinions are
 keeping with. you are mostly right but there is a more central position.

 a warier eye

 chris >>

My problem is perhaps jumping the gun too much when I see people making stupid
comments in support of someone about which they know nothing and refuse to see
the truth.  People can label me all they want, but I am not a right winger,
not racist, not any of the things mentioned above.  I don't give a crap what
people label me as.  I just can't stand stupidity and sycophantic support.  A
more central view is one that would condemn all of this activity on all sides
as I MOST DEFINITELY do.  Much of what Jerry had to say, was probably correct
in someone's viewpoint but I tend to just go after the stupidity.  I can
certainly get a handle on the idea that right wing radicals were behind the
60's "Jim Crow south", it is a fair characterization.  It would also be a fair
characterization to say that it was the "liberals" who did something to change
that sorry state of affairs.  BUT and here is the big issue for me. . .IT IS
SHEER LUNACY to automatically support and sustain people simply because of
idiotic notions of political parties and so-called social agenda BECAUSE some
liberals were racist, and some radical right wing types were not.  This is
just one example, of many I could mention.  Closer to this issue is; Why do
the supporters of Clinton continue to support him in light of all of the evil
surrounding him?  ALSO; Why do so many who want to see him hang concentrate so
much on the stupid issues of lying and sex charges and not on the real issues
(in effect toting the Republican party line)?  I am not a republican, and I
support no agenda, sometimes I just respond too quickly to ridiculous and
stupid comments from ass kissing idiots.
Republicans are no better.  Why don't we have referendum to remove all the
assholes right now?  Why aren't we pushing for in depth investigations on all
of the traitors and treasonous scum who are in office right now (of which a
majority are probably REPUBLICAN, if for no other reason than that they are
the majority in office at this time, but more probably due to the fact that
most democrats are in reality republican in philosophy, bearing in mind that
these characterizations "republican" and "democrat" are just ways of
describing a stereotypical philosophical viewpoint and in no way correspond to
reality)?  Why aren't the Hyde's and the Livingston's dragged screaming out
into the light as well?  There are agendae here that is a certainty and some
radical right wingers are definitely after Clinton.  That bothers me.  I would
like to tackle one problem at a time please.  Let us get rid of Clinton, a
person we very definitely have the goods on, THEN we can start again and go
down the list till we get rid of all the mother***kers in office.
In the end result though, nothing will happen and it will be business as
usual, and really what good will it do to have Clinon removed?  I am a big
"principle" man, but I am also growing weary of this crap too.
Does that clear things up about my position?
Teo1000

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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Kenn Thomas talk in Los Angeles (spread the word)

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/29/98 1:02:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< The author of Flying Saucers Over Los Angeles and the upcoming Maury
 Island UFO
 publisher of Steamshovel Press, the conspiracy magazine, will give a
 lecture/slide presentation on the connection between UFO lore and the
 history of covert intelligence, starting with the 1947 Maury Island UFO
 case, through Jim Garrison's investigation of the JFK assassination, to
 the Inslaw/Promis scandal of the 1990s. Learn how a closely tied group
 of covert operatives have figured into the most prominent events of
 parapoltical manipulation of the 20th century. Thomas will also be on
 hand after the talk to answer questions and dialogue on all things
 conspiratorial. Copies of his book, Flying Saucers Over Los Angeles, and

 the latest issue of Steamshovel Press will be on sale.
  >>

God I'd pay REAL money to see such a slide show and lecture!  I have always
enjoyed your work Kenn and like Steamshovel very much (it was one of the first
sites that I bookmarked on my web browser after I got on line!).  What do I
have to do to get you to come to Pittsburgh?  I am not above kidnapping and
blackmail!  BTW who was that person you were meeting in the Motel 6 on
Saturday?!?!?
Teo1000

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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Russia deploys new nuclear missiles

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

The bear is not dead after all.  Watch for more signs that the "cold war" is
not over and look for a resurgence of Russia in the news.
Teo1000

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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Y2K Overhype (Re: [CTRL] OEN 12/27/98)

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/29/98 4:57:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< So true, so true. Whether it turns out to be a bona fide catastrophe or
merely
 a pretext for martial law, I think we need to start converting our anxieties
 about it into action, and use it as an opportunity for community building,
 community agriculture to guarantee continuity of our food supply, etc. Call
me
 a kook, but I think we need to steal the ball and take it back down the
court,
 knowwaddimean?

 --Charles >>

Could not agree more Charles.  When you SIGHT the ball let me know and then we
can TRY to steal it back and then go back down the court!  :)
Teo1000

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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Russia heads for debt default

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

But they SWORE they wouldn't default!  It is not fair!
Cold War anyone?
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Secret Deals, Awkward Bargain - article

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/30/98 12:04:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< In 1989 Mayes hired retiring Air Force Lt. Gen. Perroots, who had spent
 three years as DIA director. A favorite of former CIA director William
 J. Casey, Perroots had superb intelligence connections. "Mayes told
 people, 'We got Len for his name and access,' " a former Vector
 executive said. "Len did what he was told" by Mayes, who often left
 Perroots in the dark, former employees said. >>

Wasn't Peroots involved in the Nugan Hand bank fiasco?  I'm sure he is just as
innocent this time as in that mess huh?
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/8/98 5:54:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< I'm waiting for my answer from the list manager, but I don't think this
 list is going to attract the best scholars and discussion if you allow an
 issue to be discussed, and then only allow one position to be defended. My
 recommendation would be to ban an issue altogether, or allow reasonable
 discussion of that issue. Jim Condit Jr.
  >>

It matters not what you think.  RoadsEnd (Kris Milligan) IS the list manager
and he decides what is discussed or not discussed here.  Bottom line, if you
don't like it, leave.  End of story.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] PANORAMIC PHOTO of AREA 51

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

thanks for the site!
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] hello

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/2/99 5:09:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Hi Teo, Hey did I hear you on Art Bell during the 1999 Predictions? >>

Not me, but do tell, did you here someone espousing theories or concerns that
mirror some of what I post here on CTRL?
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] hello

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/2/99 5:44:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< Hey, I was wondering the same thing.  Guess great minds think alike.
 And, p lease answer the question Teo,   inquiring minds want to know

 Lynne
  >>

I was NOT on the show, BUT am now DAMNED curious as to what was said to spark
the debate?!?!  Please tell me what was discussed!
Teo1000

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nazi's need not apply.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Operation "Urban Warrior" -- Marines Storm US Shore

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

Makes one wonder what Gorbachev, the "Prince of peace" thinks of this, he has
an office there doesn't he?  Maybe it is an assault to get rid of the Chinese?
Not likely.
Teo1000

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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] hello

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/3/99 6:47:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< On Sat, 2 Jan 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 >Hey, I was wondering the same thing.  Guess great minds think alike.

 Or they are small minds who sign up with ISPs which provide multiple IDs,
 and/or 'freebies' like Juno, Hotmail, et al, and pretend to be different
 people...   ;-)



 June
  >>
June is that REALLY you?  LOL
Teo1000

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nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] hello

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/3/99 12:59:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Teo
 FWIW, I am NOT June.  Only know her through this list.  Duh !!!  If you wish
 to hallucinate that I am her, go for it but AND A BIG BUT at that, I AM NOT
 JUNE AND WILL NEVER BE ANYONE BUT LYNNE so wake up and smell the roses Teo,
 and g et your people straight.

 Lynne M Giles  and no one else but Lynne >>

I NEVER said you were!  I merely quoted an article that was written by June
which included your name in the header so it may have appeared that I was
referring to you when I was referring to June.
Sorry for the confusion.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Re: [CTRL] hello

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/3/99 1:03:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< FWIW, all, I only sign up with one ISP and am not using any false names.
 Usually it is the ones who do the accusing of doing such a thing that are
 actually doing it.

 Now to get off my soapbox and pardon me to all get out for DARING to add a
bit
 of levity by the post I sent earlier in the day about great minds.  Guess I
 was mistaken about some minds (now if you want to continue insults, let's go
 for it)
 Lynne
  >>

Let's just take it easy here.  Don't you think you are getting carried away
here?  Someone just having a little fun, don't take it so seriously.
Teo1000

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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Re: [CTRL] hello

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/3/99 5:04:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< June
 I made a harmless comment wondering if it was Teo on the Art Bell show and I
 get a batch of hooey , comments about using multiple ISPs, wondering if I w
as
 you and all that garbage.  To me, it was an insult, There may be some people
 who pull that stuff but I am not one of them. So put it in your pipe and
smoke
 it.  I won't. So back off.  MY HUMBLE APOLOGIES for EVEN daring to p ost to
 this list.  I suggest you read Animal Farm, if you haven't already.  I guess
I
 am not equal, huh (for lack of a better word).
 At this point in time, I am seriously thinking of unseeing from this list.  I
 WAS interested in learning something from this list.  But guess I am not
 allowed to comment or anything like that.  Guess I have "learned" my lesson-I
 am not allowed to add levity or any other sort of comment to this list.

 Lynne< who is very disillusioned with this list today>
  >>

Take it easy okay.  Take a deep breath and relax, we are your friends and
don't want to hurt you so take it easy.  No one meant any harm, and BTW I
still want to know what was said to make you think it was me on the show?  It
was not me but now I'm dying to know!
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] hello

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/3/99 9:51:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< Teo,

 I hope you're happy!  If you hadn't called in to Art Bell this catfight would
 never have happened!

 Jim
  >>

I did not call him!  But now I sure as hell wish that someone would tell me
what my "evil clone" said on his show!!!  PLEASE!
LOL
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] hello (again)

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

Well, I will tell you one thing I am NEVER going to call the Art Bell show!
Because if I do then the whole list will erupt into a flame war like WWIII!
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Still Unsolved: The Brown/Goldman Murders

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

I have just finished reading the book; "Killing Time", about this very case.
The information within it causes me to look with much doubt upon the idea that
OJ committed the murders.  Interestingly it does cause me to believe that he
knows a lot more about who did it and why, but is not saying anything for some
reason, probably fear.  I think the evidence points to DRUGS, and both Nicole
and Ron were involved.  The MAFIA is probably present in some form, and where
they are the INTELLIGENCE SERVICES are not far behind.  In my mind there is a
LOT MORE to this whole issue than we are being asked to believe.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] hello

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/4/99 10:54:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Yeah, Teo, why'd you call that damn Art Bell show?

 kt >>

'Cause I knew it would cause so much disruption around here!!!  WOW!
Seriously it was NOT me calling Art Bell, but I am still waiting for someone
to tell me what was discussed and why they thought it was me who was calling.
Teo1000
FRUSTRATED

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Fwd: THE DISNEY EMAIL TRACING PROGRAM STORY (fwd)

[Teo1000]

Check it out.  The story behind the hoax e-mail.
Teo1000





Teo, I don't want to waste my limited allotment of daily posts to CTRL by
sending the following to the list myself...but in light of Robert's
Gates/Disney Email spam to the list, I thought the following might be of
interest to list members, if you want to forward it yourself...

June

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:56:38 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: TOURBUS -- 27 AUGUST 1998 -- THE DISNEY EMAIL TRACING PROGRAM STORY


 TODAY'S TOURBUS STOP(S):
THE DISNEY EMAIL TRACING PROGRAM STORY
 TODAY'S TOURBUS ADDRESSES:
http://www.tourbus.com/archive/tb121197.txt
http://www.tourbus.com/archive/tb021298.txt
http://www.microsoft.com/billgates/columns/1998Essay/3-25col.htm

Howdy, y'all!  If you are like me, your email inbox is currently
overflowing with stories about Disney's new email tracing program.
Send an email message to all of your friends and Disney will give you
either US$5000 or a free trip to Disney World.

Sounds too good to be true, doesn't it?  Well, it is.  The story is
yet another in a long string of email tracing story hoaxes that have
been floating around the Net for the past year.  Today's TOURBUS post
exposes this hoax, and gives you a look at how this hoax has
developed over the past ten months.


-
THE BILL GATES/NIKE/AND NOW DISNEY EMAIL TRACING HOAX
-

I recently found a quote that describes my feelings towards people who
create Internet hoaxes:

 "They haven't got Brains, any of them, only grey fluff that's
 blown into their heads by mistake ..."
 -- Eeyore, The House at Pooh Corner

Around the end of last year, someone thought it would be funny to
create a false story announcing that Bill Gates had "written up an e-
mail tracing program."  The story went on to say that if you forwarded
a particular email letter "to everyone you know ... everyone on the
list will receive $1000 at [Bill Gates'] expense."  I called Microsoft
shortly after I received this message in December of 1997, and George
Shaw, a spokesperson for Microsoft, told me the story is "officially
not true."  [see http://www.tourbus.com/archive/tb121197.txt]

By February of 1998, additional "fluff-brains" had rewritten the Bill
Gates email tracing program hoax/story.  The first new version said
that, in addition to US$1000, Mr. Bill was also going to send the
first thousand people who respond to his email a free copy of Windows
98 (a.k.a. "Macintosh 87").  The second version congratulated you for
being one of the first thousand people to respond to Bill's email, and
tells you that all you need to do to claim your prize is to reply
with your credit card number and expiration date so that Bill can
credit your account.  Obviously, neither of the new versions of the
Bill Gates email tracing program hoax/story was true [see
http://www.tourbus.com/archive/tb021298.txt].  Bill Gates himself even
said that the whole thing is, and I quote, "hooey" [see
http://www.microsoft.com/billgates/columns/1998Essay/3-25col.htm]

A few weeks later, another fluff-brain thought it would be funny to
change the Bill Gates email tracing program hoax/story to say that
apparel maker Nike is "offering free Nike shoes and clothing" to
people who help Nike test Microsoft's e-mail tracing program [see
http://www.tourbus.com/archive/tb022698.txt].  For the record, Nike's
response was that "reports of a Nike 'software testing' promotion are
false."

Last week, the Bill Gates/Nike email tracing program hoax/story
reappeared, this time under the Disney flag.  The new version says
that Disney is helping Microsoft test a new email tracing program and
if you forward a particular email message

 to everyone you know and if it reaches 13,000 people, 1,300 of
 the people on the list will receive $5,000, and the rest will
 receive a free trip for two to Disney World ...

The message is signed by "Walt Disney Jr., Disney, Bill Gates, & The
Microsoft Development Team."  For the record, Walt Disney did not have
any sons; he only had only daughters.  So, unless one of his daughters
recently had a little "surgery" in Sweden, there is no "Walt Disney
Jr."  In addition, a call to Disney's Corporate Relations earlier
today (26 August 1998) confirmed what we have already known for
months: the Bill Gates/Nike/Disney email tracing program hoax/story is
simply not true.

Many people who have redistributed the Bill Gates/Nike/Disney email
tracing program hoax have asked, "who could it hurt?"  Unfortunately,
the answer is *THEM*!  Procter & Gamble has recently been dealing wi

Re: [CTRL] The level of chattiness and civility are getting quite ...

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/7/99 2:33:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< Seriously , please folks, let's discuss conspiracy theory and leave the
 political debates somewhere else.

 Onwards to the utmost of futures.

 Om
 K
 - >>

Let me be just chime in here with a decided; "Right On!".  I am really getting
a little bogged down by all of the useless chatting and personal attacking
going on lately on list.  Let us please save everyone the aggravation of
having to sort through it all.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] The Bible Code

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/7/99 6:27:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Has anyone read 'The Bible Code' by Michael Drosnin??

 Richard B. >>

There was discussion on list about this book a short time ago, you might want
to check the archives for more information.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Conspiracy Theories

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/9/98 3:02:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< If this is supposedly a research oriented list, then lets all try to use
 language that actually makes sense instead of these emotional tirades.
 I know it makes conspiracies less fun, but hey, I thought that this was
 supposed to be about Truth.
  >>

Please bring on your version of truth, as much of this is relative.
Comparison's are valid when there are things in each group's ideology that are
similar.  That does not make them the same, just similar, and that is the
point of the connection.  You are right that Jews don't run (all) the
international banks.  You are alsp right that the Mason's are members of the
illuminati (necessarily) and probably right that your, or my, uUncle Joe is a
member of a world encompassing conspiracy.  This list is here for the
DISCUSSION of conspiracy, and the free exchange of ideas, as such it welcomes
comments from anyone on almost any topic (see the disclaimer for what can't be
discussed here).
It seems to me from your post that you have a hard time believing in anything
except a very small conspiracy.  Is that correct?  There are many, me
included, which would vigorously dispute that assertion.  There are GLOBAL
conspiracies, with players that work toward common goals of world hegemony and
repression of liberty for the masses.  They all are working for their own
interests (the elites probably have almost identical interests that they ALL
wish to achieve; more money and control for them and less freedom and freedom
of action for you).  Call it the Illuminati, or what you will, THEY are there.
Of course, you are free to disagree with me if you wish, and I will defend
your right to do so.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: IS PRESIDENT CLINTON ABOUT TO ANNOUNCE HIS RESIGN...

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/10/98 6:19:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< It wouldn't work.  As long as the Republicans are able to control Congress
and
 manufacture evidence and charges in any way they wish, they'll find a way to
 boot Gore just like they did Clinton.  They would never approve any one human
 as a vice president, so we would be stuck with Livingston.  He's even worse
 than Newt.  I hope Clinton hangs in forever.  He may be a shmuck, but he's
not
 a crooked, vindictive creep like some folks we know.  Prudy
  >>

Translation from Prudy:
Clinton is not crooked.  He violated no laws.  He is not vindictive, and does
not retaliate.  He is not a creep.  Only republicans qualify for these
epithets.
Gore is not a crook either, if he is removed from office it is because the
charges are made up and they have no merit.  A while back Newt was the worst
thing that could happen to America (according to Prudy) but now Livingston is
worse.
Hope that makes everyone at ease, in case you had any doubts.

Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] The Truth About Remote Viewing and Much More

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

Well, that is one perspective.  But I am more inclined to believe that Remote
Viewing is in fact an effort to utilize experimental "black" technologies
against unwitting subjects.  The viewers are led to believe, through bogus
tests, that they have psychic ability and then are set to work.  At that point
Mind Control devices are utilized (ELF, Microwave, etc.) to PROJECT the proper
image into their head.  They get the image, presto, Remote Viewing works.
This is not to say that "demons" may not be involved according to some
philosophies.  Personally I believe that humans have inherent psychic ability,
that has withered to very little over the last millennia due to the rise in
civilization and technology.  Any REAL remote viewing would be remnants of
that which we already have.
MO, of course.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] The Bible Code

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/7/99 4:21:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< If you guys want to talk about whether or not your turds are connected,
please
 do it on your own time. Let's try to steer things back on track a bit here.
 Discussion of serious issues is always needed, but the signal:noise ratio on
 this list has been getting a bit out of hand lately.

 re: the Bible Code, there's a ParaScope article that may be of interest; the
 URL is . The article is a
 bit dated, but it gives a broad overview of the "Bible Code" controversy and
 raises various points of contention regarding the "accuracy" of Drosnin's
 purported discovery.

 Peace out,
 Charles >>

Thanks for chiming in Charles.  We need to have some more meaningful
discussion of the list than the silliness that has pervaded it lately.  Now I
have one other comment to make.  Remember that silly thread that wondered
whether I called the Art Bell show or not?  I told the list that it was NOT me
and it wasn't, and I also asked what was discussed in the phone call that
caused them to think it was me and I never got any answer!  If anyone listened
to the show in question and wondered if it was me please drop me a line off
list and tell me what was discussed, as I am VERY curious.  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Vatican Faulted For Not Opening Archives (Reuters)

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/6/98 7:18:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< However, don't believe all the documents that are posted in a place like
this
 list.  Yes, i enjoy the list and some of the folks on it including you.  I
 also appreciate receiving information not otherwise available.  But when some
 of the various sources on this list feed you slander against the pope,
 "documented" all over the place, be more than a bit wary.  For one thing,
some
 members of this list are haters by their nature.  They don't really hate the
 pope or Catholics generally, or Jews, or foreigners.  By particularizing
their
 rage, these haters are able to intellectualize their venom and spin fantastic
 webs of pseudo history to make themselves appear sane.

 There are some perfectly fine people on this list and there are some ravenous
 wolves.

 Take care
 Jerry Harp >>

Here is my take on this.  Some have said that the current Pope, John Paul II
was indeed a worker in a plant that produced Zyklon B, the stuff the German's
used to kill Jews and other undesireables ( along with other more imaginative
means) before becoming a priest.  This is an allegation, and I'm unsure as to
documentation.
Now that said, I would like to point out, that Jerry has a good point.  Don't
believe everything you read here, some of it is just garbage, even some of
what I post will inevitably show itself to be trash (but it won't stop me from
posting !!).  Try to uncover as much on your own as possible to allow you to
come to a decision regarding whether something you have read is true or not.
The problem that Jerry has, if I may deduce from his post, is that he just
refuses to believe that the Pope could possibly have done such a thing.  This
is the same thing he cites, but from the opposite direction.  Don't
automatically disbelieve something on this list without doing a little
checking.  I know that to some this is one of religious significance, and
there are other topics of a similar nature brought up on this list from time
to time.  Issues such as this or those others often come down to a matter of
faith, ie; the Pope is a man of God, therefore he COULDN'T possibly have done
such a thing, many will dismiss the idea for that reason.  I caution you if
you are inclined to do so, you may be cutting off a real avenue of research.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om

Re: [CTRL] As Impeachment Looms, Clinton Seems In Denial (Reuters)

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/19/98 7:21:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<<  The other plus is that this business just might get the Democrats back
 in control of Congress.  Prudy >>

That way there won't be any more bickering and the Dem.'s can sell all the
technology to China and maybe Russia too, so that they can realm their
missiles at us with greater precision.  The Republican's are evil but at least
you KNOW it is coming Dem.'s are much more wolves in sheep's clothing 'cause
they are just as bad if not worse than the republicans [except George Bush who
IS the antichrist], but act as if they are not.  Clinton and Dem.'s are for
the "working man" and the people and "against" corporations, that is the
propaganda but nothing could be further from the truth, look at GATT, and
NAFTA and it's devastating effect on our workforce.  He is pushing MAI and the
IMF which is just monetary Mafia dictating how others should run their own
countries.
This message is for anyone who isn't a knee jerk Democratic robot, like Prudy,
who thinks that the Dem.'s are angels and the rep's devils and that Clinton is
practically god manifest and can do NO wrong but let the rep's say one word
and it is jump all over them.  This message is for people who are tired of the
same old shit in Washington.  For people who want a revolution that will take
us legally back to true representative democracy and constitutional law.  I
think Clinton should be hanged for his TREASON, selling out our national
defense for MONEY, what happened to the CIA guy who got caught doing the same
thing?  Where is he?  I don't give a rat's ass whether he had sex or lied or
committed perjury.  They won't go after him for the important things because
they will implicate themselves.  It HAS to be personal in order to get them
off the hook.  Political expediency.  So we have the situation as it is,
Clinton has committed crimes, they are sufficient for his removal so get him
the hell out, I wish we could go after more and get him for treason and all
the rest but why not take one step at a time?
Prudy and other Clinton die-hard lovers, please keep your heads firmly buried
in the sand because if you saw the reality you might think that your one sided
view is badly distorted which could cause some trauma, I don't want to be the
cause of that, thank you very much.
Teo1000
PS I know that Prudy will respond with "well why didn't we get Bush?" because
that's the only mantra she knows to ward off the evil that surrounds Clinton.
The answer is that he was TOO powerful and had TOO MUCH money.  I don't like
it and never will but let us effect change NOW before it is too late, CLINTON
is president NOW not BUSH.  Will we always dwell in the past?  Why not just
sit back like idiots and dream of the days of glory under Kennedy instead of
actually doing something?  It is stupid that is why.
PPS I have nothing against Prudy or other Clinton and democrat supporters
EXCEPT that they refuse to see the truth, It is not personal.
Have a nice day?

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] As Impeachment Looms, Clinton Seems In Denial (Reuters)

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/19/98 1:05:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, Roads End
writes:

<<  I say Mr. Bush is farther-up the puppet-master line. Clinton is more patsy
than president, MHO. The impeachment proceedings are very destructive to our
body politic/republic, that is why it is being proceeded along partisan lines.
The federal government, excepting the few mavericks, has been highly corrupt
for years and our idealism is used against us.

 Now, don't get me wrong. I do not care for Clinton, voted third party, but
this 'dumbing down' of presidential impeachment and orchestrated scandal is
downright funky and is not in the republic best interest.

 Clinton is much more captive, gee, do you think that anyone might have any
blackmailable info on Billy-boy? Let us get real , get beyond our own partisan
viewpoint and stand back to see the 'big picture'.

 Partisan impeachment is divisive on its face; Disgusting in  its wake and
destructive for our institutions.

 Om >>

Well said, and I might agree with you but it is a purely political thing
anyway, outside of our efforts to change it.  The House will vote for
impeachment and pass the ball to the Senate where everyone knows they don't
have enough votes to put him out, they are all trying to cover each other's
asses.  Now as to Bush still being ringleader, I find that completely possible
in an overarching non-direct way, but he must be out of the loop in some of
what Clinton does in order for my theories about Clinton and China to be true.
He will not be removed, so it is really a moot point.  Clinton is a patsy in
some ways but all too knowledgeable and accountable in other ways.
I disagree that a constitutional process could be bad for the republic.  Maybe
some other, better good will come of it if it indeed forces out other issues
of more immediate concern and brings down a lot of the goon republicans and
not a few other democrats in office as well.
I'm flexible, but as I say the political process is already in place to try
and save everyone's bacon so it is unlikely that this will lead anywhere.  One
point I will grant in considering this just now, if the process continues it
could lead to more needless deaths when Clinton decides to attack East
Hicksburg because they are a "security threat" to the US, in another wag the
dog scenario.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] As Impeachment Looms, Clinton Seems In Denial (Reuters)

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/19/98 1:10:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< the only difference between the republicrats and the democans is that the
 republicrats can afford to make sure that those whose silence have been
 bought, stay bought. they keep that power because they have and continue
 to rob the country blind. you are being just a little narrow, jumping on
 the 'hang clinton' bandwagon. i expected more from you teo. the whole
 damned system needs to be hanged. i, for one, would not rub elbows with
 republicrat scum, no matter what clinton did. and not that i am
 particularly for clinton either. if history does him any justice; bush
 will go down on history as one of the biggest criminal assholes to ever
 walk this planet, a free man. and there are plenty more like him. i want
 to see clinton hanged for his crimes but hang him for the real thing, not
 this made up, so-called case against him. and while we are at it, let's
 hang the whole system wherein the real criminals are not in jail but
 running and ruining, our lives from wash. dc.

 hang em all

 chris
  >>
Why expect more from me?  I agree with you wholeheartedly.  But it is unlikely
that we will get him for the big stuff so I say get him for what we can.  As
for there being plenty more of the republicans who are assholes and rich,
absolutely but nowhere do I say we should cozy up to them.  I think they are
all a bunch of assholes and I totally agree with you that it is the SYSTEM as
it operates (not as it was designed, perhaps) that needs to be changed.  Hang
them all?  Yes, absolutely!  I am NOT a republican, and DO NOT support
anything they do any more than I support anything the democrats do.  You are
right about one other thing too, when the republican fat cats pay you off you
stay bought or you die.  Simple equation.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om