Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
You're a fucking racist. If you can't understand why black and latino pride is necessary after centuries of murderous oppression, the pick up a book. Things may have been more violent in the 70's, but thats great. Some people think that revolutions don't happen by sitting behind a keyboard. MEChA is not a gang, they're an important part of helping lots of young people to be concious of their own heritage. And I respect the people who are willing to dedicate their lives to something with meaning a lot more than making more microchips for the rich. You're right about evolution though, all those women's studies and black studies programs are helping evolution along, so that racists like you can have their eyes opened more often. This is by far the most disgusting thing I've read on this list to date, and is a huge demonstration of your lilliputian mindedness. On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 11:03:25AM -0800, Tim May wrote: On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 10:28 AM, Ken Brown wrote: Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: Tyler Durden wrote: Black leadership is one potential issue here, but the other ethnic groups that do so well in the US have no identifiable leaders here. Which is precisely why those ethnic groups do so well, while U.S. blacks do not. The value of leaders is vastly overrated in American society. Same over here in London. I'm a white, English, middle-class sort of bloke. Who are my community leaders? It goes beyond just the black leaders thing--it's also about black pride. My eye-opening experience was my arrival in college (as Brits would say, at university) in 1970. UCSB, in beautiful Santa Barbara. There I found students from diverse backgrounds and cultures, mixing in the classrooms, the dorms, and the eating halls. Except for the negroes, who all sat together at one set of tables in whichever eating hall they were in. There may have been a few stragglers scattered amongst the other tables, but basically it was de facto, self-selected segregation. Much was spouted about black pride, and the negroes took to wearing huge afros with pimp-combs in their hair. They openly insulted whitey. Essentially, they aligned themselves into a gang. Many of them switched dorm rooms around, resulting in de facto creation of segregated dorm halls. White students avoided these ghettoes, for good reason. (I interviewed in 1971 for a R.A. (resident assistant) position, to help with living costs, and my negro interviewer only asked my questions about what CORE was, what SNCC was, etc. My answers were PC enough, and I was turned down. More and more of the R.A.s were negroes by 1973.) Special departments were created to handle the surge in negro students: Black Studies was the main one, with Sociology expanded to teach classes about the oppression and the marginalization of the black race, blah blah. Swahili was the language they took to meet the minimal foreign language requirements. There were no negroes in my math or physics classes. They were active, however, in student government. One of them, a woman named Judy McClellan, used to hop up on the conference tables in the student government meetings and walk up and down, ranting and screaming at the non-negro, non-Hispanic students. She once, according to reporters for the student newspaper who were in the meeting, had her negro aides stand at the doors so she could tell the council that nobody is leaving until you pass this (something about funding for her programs, etc.). The next year the President of the student council, one Robert Norris, flashed a revolver at white students who were opposing one of his resolutions. When this was reported in the campus newspaper, bails of the newspapers were thrown into the lagoon by negroes. I wrote all of this up in a letter which I sent in June of 1973 to the Regents of the University of California. I included descriptions of many of the atrocities, including the shakedown of funds from white students to go to bogus inner city youth programs (including purchase of a $2500 rare comic book about negroes, a comic book which nobody could later produce to investigators). I described the La Raza Libre Hispanic gang on campus, the MeCHA rival gang, the Black Pride contingent, the Black Students Union, etc. The Regents replied that what I had reported was known to them, but that we live in troubled times, blah blah. I did get a signed letter back from Governor Reagan's top assistant saying they were adding my report to the list of reported problems. The campus newspaper ran my letter in full, and it triggered a minor firestorm. I became sort of the right wing mascot for a few months. I got a few death threats, too, and met with the Chancellor to discuss the issues I'd raised. He agreed with all of my points, clucked about the black and Mexican gangs, but said, echoing the Regents, that we live in troubled times. It was clear to me at the time that
Digital Certificates
I was just wondering if anyone has a digital certificate issuing system I could get a few certificates issued from. Trust is not an issue since these are development-only certs, and won't be used for anything except testing purposes. The development is for an open source PKCS #11 test suite. Joe Trust Laboratories http://www.trustlaboratories.com
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 11:03 AM, Tim May wrote: Many of them switched dorm rooms around, resulting in de facto creation of segregated dorm halls. White students avoided these ghettoes, for good reason. (I interviewed in 1971 for a R.A. (resident assistant) position, to help with living costs, and my negro interviewer only asked my questions about what CORE was, what SNCC was, etc. My answers were PC enough, and I was turned down. More and more of the R.A.s were negroes by 1973.) were not PC enough, I meant to type. (My most common typing error is hearing the not in my head but not typing it.) --Tim
Re: The Train Wreck is Proceeding Nicely
Tim Wrote: I predicted the Shuttle program would never succeed. I never expected cities on either body, because there was no economic reason to have them. (I used to hear the stuff about growing ultra-pure crystals in space, but I had seen Wacker's CZ crystal pullers, and I knew that $50K/pound into orbit wasn't going to compete with crystal pullers the size of a basketball court. I knew by 1980 that the Space Shuttle and Space Station would be doing g-job effects of zero-g on ant colonies crappy science.) I think the shuttle program is a good example of why future prediction is like spontaneous symmetry breaking. Invented in the late 1960's, it could have been built anytime thereafter, or not at all. It flew in 1981. The next one could fly in a year or two, or the fleet could be junked. The space plane could be flying now, if the tanks didn't require a complete redesign from composite to aluminum. It could have gotten funded to be finished, instead of put into storage. Maybe in 10 years, someone will do it, like the shuttle. Maybe they won't. Maybe another group will do something similar. Maybe no one will care. I saw by 1978 our buildings in Santa Clara linked by lasers, and our designs being sent up to Oregon on the then-fastest modems, and I saw us leasing channels on satellites, so I knew networking would be big. It's interesting that none of the famous SF writers of the 50's saw networking in our future. Yet in retrospect, it's obvious it had to happen. I saw Stan Ovshinsky on CNN yesterday demonstrating a slew of working hydrogen power devices. Will Bush jumpstart the Hydrogen Economy? It's anyone's guess. I wouldn't try to fit when into a 20 year window. I haven't listed all of my _wrong_ predictions, as they are harder to remember than is saying what I thought about each of the issues you raised. I suppose I expected more use of ultra high level languages (some call it AI) instead of the low-level C and C++ we've seen so much of. And I suppose I expected VR to come on stronger than it has. C abstracts hardware just enough that it miminizes the total effort required to port itself plus Unux. It is free, and because it is on everything, people use it to write applications as well. PL1G could have filled the same niche easily. Again, something that could have gone either way, but once done, was cast in concrete for all eternity. Then there are the technologies that had to get jumpstarted by something other than their obvious application. Flat panel displays got jumpstarted by computers, not by television, their obvious application, because flat panel TVs could never have supported the high initial cost. Now they're cheap, and will replace CRTs for everything. Compact Flash got jumpstarted by digital cameras, and now as the price comes down, will replace floppy/floptical media in computers across the board. Other examples are numerous. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law
Re: The Train Wreck is Proceeding Nicely
On Tuesday, Feb 18, 2003, at 12:01 Europe/London, Eric Cordian wrote: The space plane could be flying now, if the tanks didn't require a complete redesign from composite to aluminum. It could have gotten funded to be finished, instead of put into storage. Maybe in 10 years, someone will do it, like the shuttle. Maybe they won't. Maybe another group will do something similar. Maybe no one will care. A prediction (so probably wrong). The US space program will continue to be underfunded since there is no competition until the Chinese manned space program really gets underway and the US get scared. Maybe history will then repeat itself almost exactly in a Space Race and the US end up on Mars. The Chinese spacecraft look a lot like the old Soviet ones only better, more modern and almost as if the old Russian engineers had done them but with more money. Also compare the annual GDP growth rate of China with that of the US. -- Steve Mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Train Wreck is Proceeding Nicely
On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 23:02:41 -0800, Tim May wrote: I'm quite happy with the way the train wreck/clusterfuck is developing. Consider some trends/outcomes: * dissatisfaction with NATO, tensions within the U.N. They just voted unanimously to send the weaponry to Turkey, just like the US wanted. * American statism revealed nakedly: an America that _starts_ a war (never again can children be taught that the U.S. never initiates wars) Really? They teach children that the Civil War was about slavery, don't they? Most people believe it. They teach that the second amendment is about duck hunting, don't they? * the possibility that a clusterfuck in Iraq will spin out of control, possibly even resulting in nukewar over and around Israel. Israel will come out smelling like roses, regardless. They have nukes, a large military, and the total protection of the US military. It would just be an excuse to sterilie once and for all Ramallah and the West Bank. * increasing anarchist sentiments They can't get organized. * rising sentiment against Total Information Awareness, Homeland Security, the Reichsprotektorate, etc. Sentiment and $1.50 will get you a cup of starbucks. I never saw this much hatred toward the U.S Government by Europeans and Middle Easterners, even during the height of the Vietnam War and then the Cold War (where European pacifists were upset at the Pershing missile deployment, military bases, etc.). Like Bush cares. No effect, unless you are still hanging on to that will of the people bullshit. (BTW, we can help to feed this hatred in various ways. I've been spreading reports on Usenet groups and European chat rooms from a pro-U.S. point of view, talking about the SIOP nuke targetting plans for Iraq and Iran, mentioning CIA plans to implement regime change in France, etc. The astute in these newsgroups may realize I am yanking their chain, but it still inflames things. Which is good, for our goals.) Wow, that will motivate maybe 16 easily delluded people. Disorder is on the rise. If a war happens, lots of opportunities. For residential BE maybe. If the war is over too quickly, or fizzles, or the U.S. backs down, much is lost. The good war will have massive scenes of Iraqi casualties, graphic images of dead babies and women, and at least a few thousand dead American soldiers. An even better war will have the conflict lasting for many months, with U.S. stormtroopers occupying Baghdad. This will inflame the Arab street. Easy to keep CNN out. And the news media is the new lapdog of the war machine. NATO will unravel (which is good, as its mission ended when the Cold War ended). The U.N. may relocate its HQ to Wien or Geneve, which is appropriate...it is absurd that a world body be located in the heart of America. (This will be good for NYC, actually, though not economically.) Who cares. Fuck NATO. Fuck the U.N. Fuck the U.S. Security State. This train wreck is going better than I thought it would. That's strange.
Re: CDR: Re: The Train Wreck is Proceeding Nicely
Neil Johnson wrote: However, for you new subscribers, I'd like to point out Tim's record for predicting the coming revolution. April 1995 Tim predicts the coming revolution as a result of the bombing of the Murrah Federal building in Oklahoma City. December 1999 Tim predicts the coming revolution due to the Y2K bug. Being a futurist is a unrewarding profession. Bright futurists don't predict the future. They look at what's possible, what's probable, and what's desirable. You have to realize that predicting the future is really about predicting human behavior. In the 1950's, futurists engaged in endless speculation about what we would do with all our leisure time in the 1990's. In reality, life today is even more of a competition between citizen-units to see who will take the least amount of money to work themselves into an early grave. I really have given up on predicting. Things happen if they are possible, and if people do them. If people don't do them, they don't happen. Far be it from me to decide what people will do, or what technology people will invent. I can predict what I will do. I can't predict what anyone else will do. Back when I harbored the delusion that I could predict things, I predicted quite a bit. I predicted that PL/I and APL would obsolete the need for all other computer languages. I looked at a development version of VisiCalc running on an Apple II, and said - I hope you guys didn't spend a lot of time on this - and predicted no one would buy a computer simulation of a ledger sheet. I predicted that someday, all computers would be Lisp Machines. I predicted Ethernet would be a failure, because collision detection seemed a really unclean way of arbitrating a communications medium. I predicted Sparc would not become a dominant architecture. I predicted the 5th Generation project under Admiral Bobby Inman would in fact produce a machine as smart as a man. I predicted we'd have cities on the moon and Mars by now. I predicted Networking would never beat the bandwidth of a 9-track tape in a Fedex pouch. I predicted only Geeks would have their own computers. Well, you get the idea. As I cruise into crotchety middle-aged engineering, mathematical, and metaphysical wizardhood, I can only say I have been completely cured of the urge to predict anything. Predicting the future is like teaching a pig to sing. You'll never do it, it's a frustrating experience, and it's not much fun for the pig either. Advice Tim and other prognosticators should take to heart. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law
State-sponsored terrorism (Chomsky): Oh.
Norman Nescio wrote... Calibrated? Sorry. Government reaction is in the form of asymmetrical threat and delivery of disproportionate force, whenever it exacts a penalty. That is the model presented for emulation. Oh. Perhaps I misunderstood your initial reaction to the word terrorism. If you meant to say that Governments are unable to perform acts of terrorism precisely because terrorism by definition is the means by which to fight a power (ie, a government) engaged in the disproportionate use of force, then I clearly misunderstood you. -TD From: Nomen Nescio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Tyler Durden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: State-sponsored terrorism (Chomsky) Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:30:04 +0100 (CET) On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:12:23 -0500, you wrote: Norman Nescio wrote... Yes they are. By definition, intimidation and violence by governments is not terrorism. The fact that the recipient is feeling terror is irrelevant. Take back the language. By what definition? State-sponsored terrorism as well as plain old state-terrorism has been covered extensively by Chomsky and many others. Check out the nifty little zinger, http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=11ItemID=2064 Here's a little taste: There could hardly be a clearer example of international terrorism as defined officially, or in scholarship: operations aimed at demonstrating through apparently indiscriminate violence that the existing regime cannot protect the people nominally under its authority, thus causing not only anxiety, but withdrawal from the relationships making up the established order of society.[10] State terror elsewhere in Central America in those years also counts as international terrorism, in the light of the decisive US role, and the goals, sometimes frankly articulated; for example, by the Army's School of the Americas, which trains Latin American military officers and takes pride in the fact that Liberation Theology...was defeated with the assistance of the U.S. Army.[11] It would seem to follow, clearly enough, that only those who support bombing of Washington in response to these international terrorist crimes -- that is, no one -- can accept the reciprocally absolute doctrine on response to terrorist atrocities or consider massive bombardment to be an appropriate and properly calibrated response to them. Calibrated? Sorry. Government reaction is in the form of asymmetrical threat and delivery of disproportionate force, whenever it exacts a penalty. That is the model presented for emulation. What goes around... _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Duct Busters
Then, get a picture of Dubbya and duct tape his mouth and hang that on your car... Of course if you don't want your back window smashed in, you might think twice --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bil/year |Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ --*--:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Harmon Seaver wrote: To remind people that the best place for ducked ape is over dubbya's mouth? Saw a neat picture of that on indymedia.
Re: Snow and Daredevil
At 08:39 PM 02/17/2003 -0800, Tim May wrote: On Monday, February 17, 2003, at 06:20 PM, Declan McCullagh wrote: Thought Tim and others here might like this: http://www.mccullagh.org/image/d30-32/k-street-building-destroyed.html Took it today after the snowstorm... One of many things I don't miss about the D.C. area is the snow. I remember four-foot snowdrifts surrounding our house in McLean during the Blizzard of '66. And one of the less attractive things about heavy snow areas is the lingering piles of dirt-encrusted snow for weeks afterward. My DC snow memories are much different - it's watching the city become totally paralyzed by half an inch of snow, because normally they don't get the stuff, the locals are basically Southerners and the foreigners are often from non-snowy countries, and the traffic barely works when it's dry, much less when it's raining or snowing.
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: Tyler Durden wrote: Black leadership is one potential issue here, but the other ethnic groups that do so well in the US have no identifiable leaders here. Which is precisely why those ethnic groups do so well, while U.S. blacks do not. The value of leaders is vastly overrated in American society. Same over here in London. I'm a white, English, middle-class sort of bloke. Who are my community leaders? The parish priest? The borough councillors? The landlord of the pub? The member of parliament? The head teacher of the local school? All of whom, apart from the publican, I helped to appoint, and none of whom I feel in the slightest way deferential to or look up to for leadership whatever that is. Who are my community leaders? It's just a silly question. No-one would ask it. Ken Brown
Re: Re: Digital Certificates
- Original Message - From: Eric Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: CDR: Re: Digital Certificates On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 01:22:21PM -0800, Joseph Ashwood wrote: I was just wondering if anyone has a digital certificate issuing system I could get a few certificates issued from. Trust is not an issue since these are development-only certs, and won't be used for anything except testing purposes. Whenever I need some test certs I use openssl to generate them. (Or an ingrian box, but not many people have one of those.) There's instructions in the openssl docs. For test purposes you don't need openca, its only needed if you want to issue a lot of certs automagically. Thank you for the input. I think I've got that working well enough to do it. The development is for an open source PKCS #11 test suite. Let me know when its done, I could use it. The next hurdle I have to overcome is getting a reference PKCS #11 module, although this shouldn't take too long if I can ever get the Gnu PKCS #11 to compile. I'll make sure I tell you when it's done. Joe
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tim May wrote: It goes beyond just the black leaders thing--it's also about black pride. My eye-opening experience was my arrival in college (as Brits would say, at university) in 1970. Well, this post explains a lot about Tim's attitude. Myself, I never ran into this kind of crap in college. I attended college 10 years later, in a conservative state (Utah). The few blacks I've encountered personally have mostly seemed to be decent people.
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tim May wrote: Swahili was the language they took to meet the minimal foreign language requirements. This sounds like the one worthwhile course in the bunch. One may learn a foreign language in order to be able to read important literary, historical, philosophical, or scientific works in other languages, in which case Latin, Greek, German, and French are good languages; in order to be able to communicate well with a wider group of people, in which case Spanish is a good language for Americans to learn; or just to broaden one's horizons, in which case I am told that Swahili is a good choice, as it is structurally so different from Indo-European languages.
Re: Digital Certificates
On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 01:22:21PM -0800, Joseph Ashwood wrote: I was just wondering if anyone has a digital certificate issuing system I could get a few certificates issued from. Trust is not an issue since these are development-only certs, and won't be used for anything except testing purposes. Whenever I need some test certs I use openssl to generate them. (Or an ingrian box, but not many people have one of those.) There's instructions in the openssl docs. For test purposes you don't need openca, its only needed if you want to issue a lot of certs automagically. The development is for an open source PKCS #11 test suite. Let me know when its done, I could use it. Eric
net down?
Is there a major dos going on or what? For the last 4 hours or so I've been unable to access a big share of it, although I can still hit some. But mail seems to be still going thru, I'm getting mail from a couple lists at least including cpunx. I've tried using a number of different dns hosts, doesn't seem to make much difference. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 04:43 PM, Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: Tim May wrote: It goes beyond just the black leaders thing--it's also about black pride. My eye-opening experience was my arrival in college (as Brits would say, at university) in 1970. Well, this post explains a lot about Tim's attitude. Myself, I never ran into this kind of crap in college. I attended college 10 years later, in a conservative state (Utah). The few blacks I've encountered personally have mostly seemed to be decent people. I know a few people who went to BYU and tell me that most of the negroes attending BYU were from African countries, part of the Mormon recruiting process (which is very successful, of course). I assume some number of other negroes at BYU are American, just as there are some negroes at Bob Jones University. These are self-selected folks, of course. I also knew some negroes in college who were from African countries, including a Sudanese guy in my relativity class. They behaved quite normally, modulo their foreign background. My attitude has also been shaped by watching this situation for the past 40 years. I used to even use the term black for negroes, before they started changing the name every few years (Afro-American, African-American, person of color) and calling anyone who used the replaced name a racist. Also, I watched what happened when I proposed a White Students Union in college. It seems negroes are give carte blanche, so to speak, to spew about honkies and hymies and whiteys and to declare everyone else racist. In fact, their most-revered ideologists have been explaining how negroes cannot be racist, no matter their language or discrimination, because racism is about the oppression and marginalization of peoples of color by the dominant whitemale paradigm. Or whatever. In the past fifteen years I have come to realize that crypto anarchy will probably change all this, as it makes for a system where only a competent elite does well. Probably fifty million marginal Americans, including nearly all of the so-called peoples of color, will, one hopes, fade away. Race warfare may be coming, as the inner city mutants have their meal tickets cancelled. This is why so many white people are buying so many guns. --Tim May
Re: net down?
gee, that was sure fast. It normally takes a lot longer to get a message back from the list. Not only that, but I've even got my favorite streaming audio station play fine. Can't get much else where with http, ftp, telnet, even if the dns works for them, some other sites can't even get dns. On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 09:53:05PM -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: Is there a major dos going on or what? For the last 4 hours or so I've been unable to access a big share of it, although I can still hit some. But mail seems to be still going thru, I'm getting mail from a couple lists at least including cpunx. I've tried using a number of different dns hosts, doesn't seem to make much difference. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: A prediction
At 03:24 PM 02/18/2003 -0800, James A. Donald wrote: But I think I have a history of making good predictions, for example I predicted the fall of the Soviet Union, so I will foolishly stick my neck out and make some predictions: Making predictions is difficult, especially about the future. The Iraq war will, as everyone knows, be launched on the 27 or 28th of february. It will be short and victorious, ending some time in april or march. You're about 12 years late. The Elder Bush's War against Iraq hasn't actually ended - we've still got US/UK troops in the area, an embargo and blockade of trade, and a no-fly zone which means the Allied Forces will shoot down Iraqi aircraft over Iraq. As to whether the US/UK forces, with or without support of the other Allies or permission from the UN, start bombing on 27/28 Feb, you might be right. But it's still the old war.
Re: Science Journal 'Self-Censorship'
At 06:58 PM 2/16/03 -0500, Pete Capelli wrote: http://abc.net.au/news/scitech/2003/02/item20030216103135_1.htm Self-governance, the editors say, is an alternative to government review of forthcoming journal articles. I don't edit any science journals, but I would expect there is no law requiring 'government review'. So what are the editors talking about? There's been a bit of discussion of this stuff in the US media, especially NPR. I think the idea is that the US government (and presumably others) want scientific publications to self-censor things that might be useful to terrorists, rogue states, and various other bad guys. Intuitively, this seems like a breathtakingly bad idea. (How does the information get out to working scientists, then? Do you create a situation where only people going to the best schools in the US and Europe get to learn the current state of the art in a bunch of fields of science? What do you do about preprints and such on the web?) But post-9/11, if three bureaucrats tell congress it's necessary to sacrifice a virgin a week in order to prevent the next terrorist attack, they'll vote unanimously to start drafting virgins and sharpening knives. *Nobody* wants to be blamed for ignoring the warnings of the next big terrorist attack. The creepier subtext here is the whole idea that there are some technologies that only the Elect (in the currently powerful nations) ought to be permitted, and that any attempt to investigate Banned Technologies just might get you arrested or invaded or bombed. This general idea seems to pop up a lot, e.g., in Bill Joy's essay Why the Future Doesn't Need Us, in Vinge's wonderful novel _The Peace War_, in Larry Niven's Known Space stories. It's hard to imagine a better recipe for massively slowing the advance of technology, protecting incumbents in every field and industry, and generally making mankind worse off in order to protect him. And yet, it's an apparently natural reaction to being frightened by the threats of new technologies. (Ironically, the nasty terror weapons we're all worried about are mostly 1940s or earlier technology. Stuff that even a third-rate starving dictatorship can cook up.) -pete --John Kelsey, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Crypto anarchy now more than ever
At 02:20 PM 2/15/03 -0800, James A. Donald wrote: ... They will be testing another missile soon. We shall see how far it goes. They would not waste a nuke on an untested missile --- which is why they test them. If their goal is to blackmail us into not invading them, I don't think they need to threaten to nuke LA or DC. We have a lot of troops in South Korea, within a few miles of the border. They can threaten them, or maybe threaten Tokyo or Seoul. No need to develop multi-billion dollar technology, when 1940s era fission bombs are all that's needed. If their goal is to extort money from us (this looks like the most likely goal), they have a somewhat different set of requirements. Then, their threat is really going to be about proliferation. They announce they have nukes, and make it clear that either we buy them, or someone else will be given the chance. The saber-rattling serves both to communicate the threat and to advertise for buyers. James A. Donald --John Kelsey, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A prediction
At 03:24 PM 2/18/03 -0800, James A. Donald wrote: -- The Iraq war will, as everyone knows, be launched on the 27 or 28th of february. I was thinking about 0400 hours (GMT+3) on the morning of the 28th (that being Sunday in Muslim countries). Sunday the 2nd is dark of the moon and an earlier attack would lead into it nicely. DCF Western Civilization didn't invent tyranny, slavery, racism, or the oppression of women. What it did do is eliminate those evils (to the extent they have been eliminated). The rest of the world should be damn grateful and if they're not we should return them to the ancient tyrannies from which we so recently rescued them. Would serve them right.
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tim May wrote... It was clear to me at the time that the focus on black pride was destructive of _real_ pride. Against my better judgement, I find myself agreeing with this statement on one level. However, it should be noted that the Black Pride movement of the late 60s and early 70s was a necessary reaction to years and years of negative messages sent towards the notion of being African American. Black Pride was probably the most valuable for nothing else than being a political movement that asserted that asserting such a thing was possible or desirable. However, this notion of Black Pride eventually on some levels reinforced an almost ghettoization of black culture, both by blacks as well as Whites. As a simple example, we still use the term African Americans to refer to 'black' folks (which seems to mean any person with even a single gene inherited from the African continent), even though the relationship between black folks and Africa is probably not any closer than black folks and Europe. (Likewise, White folks partake daily of the fruits of African culture in our lands, the most obvious example being music.) So we still maintain that there's American culture, and then there's African American culture, a dichotomy that is reflected in the equally racist notions of black and white people. The sad thing is that this marginalization/ghettoization extends even to the absolute highest arts. A couple of years ago I caught Wayne SHorter and Herbie Hancock, and their performance was as abstract, complex, and multi-hued as anything this overly cutlured NYC boy has experienced. And I don't remember seeing a single black face in the audience. So now Jazz is white, despite its profoundly African roots, while many (of course not all) black folks are willing to settle for either overproduced muzaky trash, or mindless rap (Not that all rap is mindless by the way, but less and less of it is of the caliber of Public Enemy or Grandmaster Flash.) I would presume that one reason for this has to do with the fact that real Jazz is no longer perceived by most black folks as being black, so it is largely ignored. However, that this pack mentality for many black folks exists should be no suprise, as there's strength in numbers and as my father says, Where there are two or more Americans gathered have ye a lynch mob. So its dangerous in this country to be marginalized, for to be marginalized means to be largely disempowered. It's something of a mistake, tis true, but its probably the universal human reaction to years and years of oppression and hate. I think of it as evolution in action. Of course, sometimes evolution needs to be helped along a bit. Uh, Ok whatever. I'd point out that the genetic diversity of African Americans is such that they are probably genetically superior to most whites. Don't think that being fantastic at sports is some indication that black folks are merely big, dumb graceful animals. If those same kids had the same drive to excel in mathematics or science, they'd do extremely well. In the 80s I worked in one of the toughest High Schools in the country, in Brooklyn. One of my students was brutally murdered, and throughout a semester several would be out sick due to being atacked with knives. (This was in addition to fireworks being set off regularly in the halls, gang fights, rampant vandalism and recreational fires and so on.) And yet it was quite clear to me that the intelligence level of these students was by no means much less than that of whites at good high schools (I attended a famous Science and math HS in NYC.). The sad thing was that these kids really had never been exposed to the why of education, and asked me regularly about the basic math I was teaching them: Why do we have to learn this? We'll never use this in real life. More than this, they couldn't even really conceive of a life without the ubiquitous violence and filth around them. There was no real reason to do well or get a good job. In the end, it not only felt futile to work there, it was depressing. Was this black people's fault? Nah. It's all of our fault. -TD _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless
Cardenas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MEChA is not a gang, they're an important part of helping lots of young people to be concious of their own heritage. MEChA is mostly about keeping college admission standards lower for South American-derived wannabe students[1]. This has recently gotten difficult because it is inherently unconstitutional, and increasingly recognized as such, when government funds the admitting entity. But its hard to retain your pride when you know you haven't competed fairly, isn't it? Tribals (like MEChAns) who get their pride from being in some unchosen category (like ethnicity, nationality, etc) do not understand the earning of merit. [1] Not hispanics; they don't care about Iberians
Re: CDR: Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters andminorities
On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Tyler Durden wrote: In the 80s I worked in one of the toughest High Schools in the country, in Brooklyn. During the late 60 and early seventies I briefly attended IS44 in New York City. This was one of the schools over which Al Shanker's teachers went on strike for combat pay. One of my students was brutally murdered, and throughout a semester several would be out sick due to being atacked with knives. Routine inner city school life. (This was in addition to fireworks being set off regularly in the halls, gang fights, rampant vandalism and recreational fires and so on.) Routine inner city life. And yet it was quite clear to me that the intelligence level of these students was by no means much less than that of whites at good high schools (I attended a famous Science and math HS in NYC.). Agreed. Completely. Except for the caliber of school. My Gladiator School had teachers who were just too stupid to leave - to put that another way, the smart ones left after their first rape or beating experience, leaving only the incompetents who knew less than the students they were teaching. The sad thing was that these kids really had never been exposed to the why of education, and asked me regularly about the basic math I was teaching them: Why do we have to learn this? We'll never use this in real life. The problem is that they were more correct in this than you were: most of the white folks in my classes at Gladiator School went on to real jobs, whether or not they were qualified for them. Most of the black kids went on to bottom feeder jobs, regardless of what they were actually qualified for. This could, obviously, be anything or everything from self-fulfilling prophecy to overt discrimination More than this, they couldn't even really conceive of a life without the ubiquitous violence and filth around them. Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. Every kid I went to school with dreamt of lives without the violence. There was no real reason to do well or get a good job. In the end, it not only felt futile to work there, it was depressing. Futile - mostly. Depressing, definitely, but the rest of that is apologist bullshit. We did well so we could GET OUT. I did worse than most of the friends I had who made it out, but those who did were adamant from the getgo that OUT was the goal, and no brain dead dyslexic and illiterate/innumerate teacher was going to get in the way. Apologist bullshit: chant it with me... Was this black people's fault? Nah. It's all of our fault. Whatever. -TD _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A prediction
What's nice about predictions is that they are less than worthless, so nobody gives a shit about them except their makers. More Americans will die in the homeland than in and around Iraq. Most of the military who will die in and around Iraq will be no where near combat, just dying there the way Americans are dying in the homeland. And more money will be made from war and homeland dying, some of it by investors on this forum who will give a shit about who is dying, so long as ROI is sky high. A few of the investors will be whacked for not giving a shit, for thinking nothing bad will ever happen to a predictable winner. Says the oracle angling for a five-dollar cupa.
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tim May wrote: In the past fifteen years I have come to realize that crypto anarchy will probably change all this, as it makes for a system where only a competent elite does well. Probably fifty million marginal Americans, including nearly all of the so-called peoples of color, will, one hopes, fade away. I guess I'm more optimistic about human nature than you, Tim. If and when the day of reckoning comes, this is what I expect: 1. Great wailing and gnashing of teeth. 2. Probably a good deal of violence by some who have come to view parasitism as their right. 3. But once it becomes clear that the parasitic lifestyle is no longer viable, most will do what they have to do to survive: stop whining, stop looking for handouts, and learn to stand on their own two feet and make their own fortune.
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 08:04:14PM -0600, Harmon Seaver wrote: Yeah, no kidding. Lot's of kids brought guns to school when I was in highschool. Kids that lived in the country would hunt before school, catch the schoolbus, with their rifle or shotgun in a case, of course, and put it in their locker while in class, take it out, take the bus home and hunt after school. Why not? And of course they were usually carrying a fair amount of ammo as well. And when I was in college at the UW-Madison, I regularly took my .22 target pistol down to the university indoor range and practiced. I'm not sure that college students are even allowed to have guns in the dorm now. I attend UW Madison now, although I don't live in the dorms. Not even BB guns are allowed. http://www.housing.wisc.edu/reshallshandbook/expectations.html#weapons John Bethencourt
Police state, plainclothes pigs need to die
Girl driving in car is attacked by men in car and tries to escape the attack. The men are pigs (DEA, of course) out of uniform in unmarked car. She is shot in head. Pigs will get away with this, of course. She was Mexican, lower class, in Texas, so expendable. - Teen shot by DEA agents dies in hospital SAN ANTONIO -- A teenage girl, shot and killed by federal drug agents, was a victim of excessive force from law officers who were investigating her father, relatives and friends say. ... Ashley Villarreal had been hospitalized in critical condition since being shot once in the back of the head. One of the agents at a drug stakeout in plain clothes and unmarked vehicles were watching a house on the city's west side where they believed a suspect was hiding when they saw a man get into the passenger side of a car, San Antonio police Sgt. Gabe Trevino said. A girl got into the driver's side of the vehicle, and when they started leaving without the headlights on, and at a high rate of speed, the agents felt certain that this was their suspect and he was trying to escape, Trevino said after the shooting. When agents boxed the car in and attempted to arrest the man, they said the girl who was driving the car continued toward them and slammed into their vehicle, then shifted into reverse and rammed the DEA vehicle behind her. Agents fired at least four times, and the girl was struck in the head. Trevino said the man was not the drug suspect agents were seeking, but he was booked into jail on a charge of public intoxication. snip http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/metropolitan/1775795
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Tyler Durden wrote: Was this black people's fault? Nah. It's all of our fault. Bullshit. I had nothing to do with it. Collective guilt only dilutes responsibility and ensures that pathological behavior continues. Let me suggest some specific groups of people who are responsible: - The education establishment. Their purpose from day one has been, not education, but the production of pliable citizen-serfs. Read John Taylor Gatto's _The Underground History of American Education_ for details. (Gatto taught in the New York school system for decades, and received New York City and New York State teacher of the year awards.) - The welfare-state bureaucrats who labored so long and hard to erase the stigma associated with living on the dole. As long as it made their own jobs secure and expanded their own little empires, why should they care that their system was eroding the morals, independence, and self-respect of one generation after another? - The victimology pushers and race baiters. These people have worked hard to focus minorities on the actions of other people (which they can't control) and away from their own actions (which they *can* control). They have created a culture where education, deferred gratification, all the traditional means of raising oneself up out of poverty, are reviled and disdained as the white man's way.
Re: CDR: Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Just out of curiosity, which of the following would you classify as racist: Group(s) pushing Black Pride Group(s) pushing Latino Pride Group(s) pushing White Pride Group(s) pushing to Buy Black Group(s) pushing to Buy White I submit that all of the above are blatantly, obviously, racist, although I suspect I'll get a different evaluation from you... -- Yours J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Cardenas wrote: Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:01:38 -0800 From: Cardenas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: CDR: Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities You're a fucking racist. If you can't understand why black and latino pride is necessary after centuries of murderous oppression, the pick up a book. Things may have been more violent in the 70's, but thats great. Some people think that revolutions don't happen by sitting behind a keyboard. MEChA is not a gang, they're an important part of helping lots of young people to be concious of their own heritage. And I respect the people who are willing to dedicate their lives to something with meaning a lot more than making more microchips for the rich. You're right about evolution though, all those women's studies and black studies programs are helping evolution along, so that racists like you can have their eyes opened more often. This is by far the most disgusting thing I've read on this list to date, and is a huge demonstration of your lilliputian mindedness. On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 11:03:25AM -0800, Tim May wrote: On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 10:28 AM, Ken Brown wrote: Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: Tyler Durden wrote: Black leadership is one potential issue here, but the other ethnic groups that do so well in the US have no identifiable leaders here. Which is precisely why those ethnic groups do so well, while U.S. blacks do not. The value of leaders is vastly overrated in American society. Same over here in London. I'm a white, English, middle-class sort of bloke. Who are my community leaders? It goes beyond just the black leaders thing--it's also about black pride. My eye-opening experience was my arrival in college (as Brits would say, at university) in 1970. UCSB, in beautiful Santa Barbara. There I found students from diverse backgrounds and cultures, mixing in the classrooms, the dorms, and the eating halls. Except for the negroes, who all sat together at one set of tables in whichever eating hall they were in. There may have been a few stragglers scattered amongst the other tables, but basically it was de facto, self-selected segregation. Much was spouted about black pride, and the negroes took to wearing huge afros with pimp-combs in their hair. They openly insulted whitey. Essentially, they aligned themselves into a gang. Many of them switched dorm rooms around, resulting in de facto creation of segregated dorm halls. White students avoided these ghettoes, for good reason. (I interviewed in 1971 for a R.A. (resident assistant) position, to help with living costs, and my negro interviewer only asked my questions about what CORE was, what SNCC was, etc. My answers were PC enough, and I was turned down. More and more of the R.A.s were negroes by 1973.) Special departments were created to handle the surge in negro students: Black Studies was the main one, with Sociology expanded to teach classes about the oppression and the marginalization of the black race, blah blah. Swahili was the language they took to meet the minimal foreign language requirements. There were no negroes in my math or physics classes. They were active, however, in student government. One of them, a woman named Judy McClellan, used to hop up on the conference tables in the student government meetings and walk up and down, ranting and screaming at the non-negro, non-Hispanic students. She once, according to reporters for the student newspaper who were in the meeting, had her negro aides stand at the doors so she could tell the council that nobody is leaving until you pass this (something about funding for her programs, etc.). The next year the President of the student council, one Robert Norris, flashed a revolver at white students who were opposing one of his resolutions. When this was reported in the campus newspaper, bails of the newspapers were thrown into the lagoon by negroes. I wrote all of this up in a letter which I sent in June of 1973 to the Regents of the University of California. I included descriptions of many of the atrocities, including the shakedown of funds from white students to go to bogus inner city youth programs (including purchase of a $2500 rare comic book about negroes, a comic book which nobody could later produce to investigators). I described the La Raza Libre Hispanic gang on
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
At 06:43 PM 2/18/2003 -0600, Kevin S. Van Horn wrote: Tim May wrote: It goes beyond just the black leaders thing--it's also about black pride. My eye-opening experience was my arrival in college (as Brits would say, at university) in 1970. Well, this post explains a lot about Tim's attitude. Myself, I never ran into this kind of crap in college. I attended college 10 years later, in a conservative state (Utah). The few blacks I've encountered personally have mostly seemed to be decent people. I can support some of what Tim says. Although I was born in New York and absorbed some of the street ethics there, I grew up mostly in Los Angeles. During the late '60s, in an effort to encourage voluntary integration, the city (with state and fed help) designated magnet schools which featured enriched curriculum. My school, Hamilton High, was selected as the math center (we also became, briefly, the science center due to delay in the completion of Crenshaw High) and got a brand new IBM 1130 and a several college professors for the AP math, chemistry and physics classes. A few of us were sent to IBM's customer education classes to get up quickly up to speed (some of the regular teachers also attended but they did poorly). The advanced placement level math and science classes enabled me to ace the SAT and ACT test and entrance exams and get into CalTech (something I doubt I would otherwise been able to do). Kids from all over LA were bussed to Hamilton. Most were good students, and I made a few new friends, not so some of the African Americans. Hami had always been a safe place, but almost immediately after the arrival of the busses there were stories of shakedowns in the rest rooms and on the lunch court. (like Tim, the faculty knew there were some bad apples but took no steps to identify and expel them from the program.) I had been a serious student of martial arts (Shodokan, Aikido and Hapkido) since middle school and, though I was only about 5' 2, I was well along to my black belt by the time I entered high school (this was when getting a black belt in the U.S. was still roughly equivalent to getting one in Asia). When I heard of the trouble I took to carrying concealed martial arts weapon, usually a nanchuk or tonfa (now often used by law enforcement), on my back. My first incident happened in the athletics class. As was the regimen then, the class would line up before and after activities to check attendance, then we would shower. To help the instructor the lineup order was fixed. It so happened that the student behind me was one of those being bussed in. I had not taken much notice of him until the day he decided that my back looked to be good target for his fist. His method was to punch me about every 5 seconds like clock work. It started at the first line up and continued to just before showers. (I know some of my fellow students saw him hitting me but they pretended not to and said anything.) His locker was almost opposite of mine and as the class prepared to shower he continued his ritualistic abuse. I waited until most of the others were gone and just as he was about to land a blow I quickly turned, blocked his punch, grabbed and twisted his arm to lock it and drew him into a side kick to his throat. His trachea partly collapsed and he fell to the floor choking. I calmly continued undressing and went to the shower. When I came back some students we standing around him and an instructor was giving him mouth to mouth. I heard he was taken to the hospital. No one asked me about him, I never saw him again and none of the students said a word. Several days later three of his friends tried to jump me between classes in a relatively isolated area of the campus, one had a knife I gave them a very painful lesson with my nanchuk. I never saw them again either, nor was I ever questioned about them by school administrators. Afterward, I took to walking to classes with friends, mostly other martial arts students, but no further incidents occurred. Its a good thing this happened back then. Today, I would have been shot and/or arrested. steve
gephardt for prez?
February 19, 2003 Gephardt Formally Announces Presidential Candidacy Outlines Ambitious Proposals to lift this lagging economy and build a new American prosperity. St. Louis, MO Dick Gephardt today announced his candidacy for the Presidency of the United States at the Mason Elementary School where Gephardt was educated and raised. My dad was a milk truck driver, a proud member of the Teamsters, Gephardt said. My mother was a secretary. Neither of my parents finished high school. They didnt have much money. But they saved what they could five, ten dollars a week so I could get an education and live out my dreams. I want to dedicate this day to my mother Loreen and my late father, Lou Gephardt. This campaign is for them -- and for all who seek and strive to do right by their kids. Theyre the true American heroes; theyre the people Im fighting for. An economic crossroads Ten years ago, America was at another economic crossroads. We were losing jobs. Incomes were falling. Our nation was choked with the highest deficits in history, $290 billion, enough red ink to drown the Washington Monument. As House Majority Leader, I led the fight to pass the Clinton-Gore economic plan to slash the deficit, invest in education, cut taxes for working families, and ask the wealthy to pay their fair share. Not a single Republican voted for that plan; they said it was a job-killer. Instead, it led to the single longest economic expansion in history. The highest home ownership ever. The lowest inflation in a generation. Over 22 million new jobs. Turns out we were right, and the other side was wrong. Yet President Bush has taken us right back to the broken policies of the past, the economics of debt and regret: unaffordable tax cuts for the few. Zero new jobs. Surging unemployment. Ive got to hand it to him: never has so much been done, in so little time, to help so few Thats the Bush record - a nation with zero job creation, racked with debt, unprepared for the economy of the future. A nation thats growing apart, when we should be growing together. A contest of ideas A Presidential campaign is a contest for votes. But its also a contest of ideas. Some politicians will say, give me your support now and Ill figure out the issues later. Well Im in this to fight for your jobs, not merely to win one for myself. Every proposal I am making every idea Im advancing has a single, central purpose to revive a failing economy, and give working Americans the help and the security they need to make the most of it, on their own. An unshakeable commitment to keep our defenses strong As President, Ill start with an unshakeable commitment to keep our defenses strong. Were in a new world, with manifold new dangers from global terror, to the recklessness of rogue dictators like Saddam Hussein, to international crime and drug-running that rips at the very fabric of freedom. In the face of new dangers, we need a familiar resolve. I will make sure our armed forces remain the best-equipped, best-trained, best-led fighting force in the entire world. I stand with this administrations efforts to disarm Saddam Hussein. And Im proud that I wrote the resolution that helped lead the President to make his case at the United Nations. For all our military might, there are too many threats to our security, too many global challenges for America to simply go it alone. We need the friendship and cooperation of our time-honored allies. We must lead the world, instead of merely bullying it. Ensure the security of our homeland We must do more to ensure the security of our homeland where it matters most in the places where you live and workAs President, Ill give local police and fire departments, the first responders, unprecedented tools and training, so they can be the front line in the war against terror. Ill create a brand new Homeland Security Trust Fund, so states and local communities have all the resources they need to keep your families safe and secure. Scrap the vast majority of the Bush tax cuts My economic plan begins at the beginning. We have to scrap the vast majority of the Bush tax cuts for wealthier Americans and corporations. And Ill tell you why: theyre unaffordable, unsustainable, and patently unfair. Mind you, Im all for helping wealthy Americans grow our economy. But doling out tax cuts they dont want or need is not the way to do it. Without the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, we can do more to promote innovation, the engine of growth in this ideas economy. Health care: A moral imperative Without the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, we can finish the unfinished business of providing high-quality health coverage to everyone who works in America, saving billions, and stimulating one of the biggest sectors of our private economy. To me, this is a moral imperative. Three decades
Re: Stand back or I'll jump....
At 03:21 PM 2/19/03 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: If their goal is to blackmail us into not invading them, I don't think they need to threaten to nuke LA or DC. As I said before, the obvious thing would be for North Korea to threaten to nuke itself! This should clearly be called the Blazing Saddles strategy. -TD --John Kelsey, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Steve Shear, re Rome, Architects, Shuttles, Congress
Steve, you proposed that the deskhoes (congresshits, NASA managers) take the risks that they put others into. I mentioned this to my Dad and he reminded me that parachute packers in the military were required to jump with the chutes they packed at any time. ... Hackers don't work on their own brakes for a reason: evolution.
Re: Police state, plainclothes pigs need to die
Major Variola (ret) wrote: Girl driving in car is attacked by men in car and tries to escape the attack. The men are pigs (DEA, of course) out of uniform in unmarked car. She is shot in head. Pigs will get away with this, of course. She was Mexican, lower class, in Texas, so expendable. Donald Scott was lily-white, upper-class (millionaire), and lived in Malibu. He was expendable, too. Nowadays, the uniformed thugs can get away with killing *anybody* who doesn't have good political connections. The motto of the DOJ ought to be State-sanctioned murder: it's not just for minorities anymore.
Re: Blood for Oil (was The Pig Boy was really squealing today
On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 09:20:16PM -, lcs Mixmaster Remailer wrote: On , you wrote: You are anti-Bush anti-Iraq invasion. We got it. He's just trying to convince us that he's *really* serious about it. Hey Chaka: everybody here has already formulated their own opinion on Iraq some time ago - but we're not going on on on about it. Remember when our whole 'real' reason for going into Afghanistan was all about oil too? Look how much we're getting from them nowadays. --- JLG No, the real reason was because terrorists hate freedom and democracy, That's right, or at least the state terrorists in the whitehouse do. and the US wanted Afghanistan to be free and democratic. So the US killed a lot of people there, so as to spread respect for freedom and democracy, and installed another dictator without elections, or any plan for elections. And if you will check out a little geology, you'll learn that Afghanistan doesn't have any substantial oil. No oil but lots of dope, especially lots of high grade opium and the CIA and the US scum military has been just desperate to get control of the world heroin trade again like they did in Vietnam days. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
At 03:00 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: Steve Schear and Tim May mention some interesting incidents. In Steve Schear's case, there's a mysterious absence of response: No one asked me about him, I never saw him again and none of the students said a word. Several days later three of his friends tried to jump me I never saw them again either, nor was I ever questioned about them by school administrators. Well, obviously my following points will probably be met with scepticism (to say the least), but here goes. If those same incidents had occurred in an all-white environment, most of the time there'd be hell to pay. People would freak out, and students expelled. In THESE cases, however, there's the tolerance and even expectation of bad behavior on the part of black students. While teaching in Brooklyn, I saw the same thing again and again: You can't change them, that's the way they are. Even here, officials fail to respond for fear of political reprisals, while negative behavior is expected. Of course, expectations don't FORCE a group to meet those expectations. So I'm not saying people have no responsibility for their actions. But I AM pointing out that the non-response (of which the NYC High Schools are merely a giant example) is tainted with racism, and this racism gets magnified via the projecting lens (perhaps a camera lumina?) of institutions. So it basically takes whatever's already messed up and excacerbates the problem. Not too sure. I noticed a similar lack of involvement interest when school yard fights broke out between pink students. Once word spread that some bussed in trouble makers had been dealt with the level of problems appeared to abate (at least until I graduated). It was reckless for the teachers and administrators to take no obvious actions and I probably should have been expelled. I was careful not to mention these incidents to my friends or family until I graduated. BTW, there were quite a few local brown/black students who attended Hami. I saw few if any hanging out with those bussed in. It seemed they also wished not to associate with trouble makers. steve
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Tuesday 18 February 2003 20:16, Bill wrote: At 5:53 PM -0800 2/17/03, Tyler Durden wrote: Any kid coming to school with a knife or gun gets thrown out, period. Gee, when I was in high school, I was on the high school rifle team. I still have the varsity letter with the crossed rifles on it. Our ammo was paid for by the US military, who wanted recruits who could shoot. I brought my gun to school at the beginning of the season, and took it home at the end. Teenager have the same right to self defense that adults do. Why would any sane kid want to go into one of those war zones unarmed? Why would any sane parent allow them to do so? David Neilson
Return to Sender.
As part of the campaign, the U.S. Postal Service will send out brochures to every American. Return to sender and vote against waste and fear and warmongering,leave no chad unturned! http://news.com.com/2100-1023-985170.html?tag=fd_top
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Steve Schear wrote on February 19, 2003 at 12:23: (snipped] As was the regimen then, the class would line up before and after activities to check attendance, then we would shower. To help the instructor the lineup order was fixed. It so happened that the student behind me was one of those being bussed in. I had not taken much notice of him until the day he decided that my back looked to be good target for his fist. His method was to punch me about every 5 seconds like clock work. Any idea of why the fucker started up with the punching? It started at the first line up and continued to just before showers. (I know some of my fellow students saw him hitting me but they pretended not to and said anything.) His locker was almost opposite of mine and as the class prepared to shower he continued his ritualistic abuse. I waited until most of the others were gone and just as he was about to land a blow I quickly turned, blocked his punch, grabbed and twisted his arm to lock it and drew him into a side kick to his throat. His trachea partly collapsed and he fell to the floor choking. I calmly continued undressing and went to the shower. When I came back some students we standing around him and an instructor was giving him mouth to mouth. I heard he was taken to the hospital. No one asked me about him, I never saw him again and none of the students said a word. Excellent! A shame he wasn't killed, as he deserved to be. Several days later three of his friends tried to jump me between classes in a relatively isolated area of the campus, one had a knife I gave them a very painful lesson with my nanchuk. I never saw them again either, nor was I ever questioned about them by school administrators. Afterward, I took to walking to classes with friends, mostly other martial arts students, but no further incidents occurred. Its a good thing this happened back then. Today, I would have been shot Unless you shot the fucking African-American attackers dead first. This is why I think bullied kids should carry handguns. Preferably easily concealed ones, the smallest one with the highest caliber. Bust a cap in their fucking brains. and/or arrested. Any cop who would arrest you for a clear-cut case of self-defense would need to be shot dead. -- Tom Veil
Re: School of the future
On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, Harmon Seaver wrote: The real school of the future won't have classrooms at all, and no teachers as we now know them. Instead there will be workstations with VR helmets and a number of software gurus in the machine tailoring themselves to the individual students needs and personality. The machine will never be tired or grumpy or just having a bad day or serious personality problems like human teachers. The software will have the same entrancing allure of good computer games with the addition of sounds and light patterns of our present day mind machines to adjust brain waves to optimal receptivity and retainment, and function in the well-proven pattern of learning by feeding information, testing, feeding more info or reviewing areas as needed, and just as fast, or as slow, as each student requires. There will be no inattentive students, time on the machine will be the highlight of their week, and they'll probably be able to get more actual learning done in 4-5 hours as they now do in a week. And we could have these schools in place today with today's hardware -- all we need is someone to write the software. This reminds me of the mind link hardware I suggested to Tim Leary when he came to Chicago a decade back. Let's keep the classroom, just spread it out over the net. Grumpyness isn't always a bad thing, it seems to create a lot of entertainment on this list anyway :-) Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 11:19:11PM +0100, Anonymous wrote: After scanning hyperpoem.net, we've decided to blacklist you for your far left-wing, socialist views, the quote from Ayn Rand notwithstanding. -- Tom Veil What the fuck are you talking about? Neither you nor anyone else has the authority to ban anyone here, shitforbrains. Actually the site looks pretty good, lots of anti-war, anti-dubbyascum stuff -- right on! -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Cardenas wrote on February 18, 2003 at 15:02: You're a fucking racist. I didn't see anything in his post that was indicative of an inherent belief in the superiority of any particular race. If you can't understand why black and latino pride is necessary after centuries of murderous oppression, the pick up a book. Things may have been more violent in the 70's, but thats great. Some people think that revolutions don't happen by sitting behind a keyboard. MEChA is not a gang, they're an important part of helping lots of young people to be concious of their own heritage. Apparently, helping lots of young people to be concious (sic) of their own heritage includes shakedowns, threats and theft: http://www.americanpatrol.org/MECHA/MEChAindex.html It appears that this gang is also bent on re-conquering the South- western United States. And I respect the people who are willing to dedicate their lives to something with meaning a lot more than making more microchips for the rich. Even the so-called poor minorities use and benefit from microchips a hell of a lot more than they benefit from all these consciousness of heritage idiots. I'd say that making microchips, or collecting garbage for that matter, has much more meaning than raising consciousness of ethnic heritage and other such bullshit. You're right about evolution though, all those women's studies and black studies programs are helping evolution along, so that racists like you can have their eyes opened more often. Those programs will eventually be relegated to the ash heaps of history. [snipped] -- michael cardenas | lead software engineer, lindows.com hyperpoem.net | GNU/Linux software developer people.debian.org/~mbc | encrypted email preferred After scanning hyperpoem.net, we've decided to blacklist you for your far left-wing, socialist views, the quote from Ayn Rand notwithstanding. -- Tom Veil
Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities
Steve Shear and Tim May mention some interesting incidents. In Steve Shear's case, there's a mysterious absence of response: No one asked me about him, I never saw him again and none of the students said a word. Several days later three of his friends tried to jump me I never saw them again either, nor was I ever questioned about them by school administrators. Well, obviously my following points will probably be met with scepticism (to say the least), but here goes. If those same incidents had occurred in an all-white environment, most of the time there'd be hell to pay. People would freak out, and students expelled. In THESE cases, however, there's the tolerance and even expectation of bad behavior on the part of black students. While teaching in Brooklyn, I saw the same thing again and again: You can't change them, that's the way they are. Even here, officials fail to respond for fear of political reprisals, while negative behavior is expected. Of course, expectations don't FORCE a group to meet those expectations. So I'm not saying people have no responsibility for their actions. But I AM pointing out that the non-response (of which the NYC High Schools are merely a giant example) is tainted with racism, and this racism gets magnified via the projecting lens (perhaps a camera lumina?) of institutions. So it basically takes whatever's already messed up and excacerbates the problem. As for me, as I have mentioned on this list as a kid I lost a front tooth to a black fist. So, I started taking my GoJu lessons seriously. My GoJu Sensei was (and is) himself Black (and a former student of Peter Urban), as were 50% of the other students. And suffice it to say, he gave me what was necessary to see to it I never lost another tooth! (BTW, he plays the bodygaurd for John Lone in Year of the Dragon.) -TD _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
School of the future
Teenager have the same right to self defense that adults do. Why would any sane kid want to go into one of those war zones unarmed? Why would any sane parent allow them to do so? Well, OK. But also don't expect anyone to teach 'em (at least not someone that can possibly find work elsewhere!) Or, having a bullet-proof plexiglass wall between the teacher and 'students' could work. Bullhorns would also broadcast the lesson louder than kids could shout so that those that want to learn, could. Watercannon are also positioned so that the teacher can brake up any fights. (All part of the School of the Future devised by me and some friends.) -TD From: david [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The burn-off of twenty million useless eaters and minorities Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:23:04 -0500 On Tuesday 18 February 2003 20:16, Bill wrote: At 5:53 PM -0800 2/17/03, Tyler Durden wrote: Any kid coming to school with a knife or gun gets thrown out, period. Gee, when I was in high school, I was on the high school rifle team. I still have the varsity letter with the crossed rifles on it. Our ammo was paid for by the US military, who wanted recruits who could shoot. I brought my gun to school at the beginning of the season, and took it home at the end. Teenager have the same right to self defense that adults do. Why would any sane kid want to go into one of those war zones unarmed? Why would any sane parent allow them to do so? David Neilson _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: School of the future
On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 03:28:37PM -0500, Tyler Durden wrote: Or, having a bullet-proof plexiglass wall between the teacher and 'students' could work. Bullhorns would also broadcast the lesson louder than kids could shout so that those that want to learn, could. Watercannon are also positioned so that the teacher can brake up any fights. (All part of the School of the Future devised by me and some friends.) The real school of the future won't have classrooms at all, and no teachers as we now know them. Instead there will be workstations with VR helmets and a number of software gurus in the machine tailoring themselves to the individual students needs and personality. The machine will never be tired or grumpy or just having a bad day or serious personality problems like human teachers. The software will have the same entrancing allure of good computer games with the addition of sounds and light patterns of our present day mind machines to adjust brain waves to optimal receptivity and retainment, and function in the well-proven pattern of learning by feeding information, testing, feeding more info or reviewing areas as needed, and just as fast, or as slow, as each student requires. There will be no inattentive students, time on the machine will be the highlight of their week, and they'll probably be able to get more actual learning done in 4-5 hours as they now do in a week. And we could have these schools in place today with today's hardware -- all we need is someone to write the software. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
