Aw: Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[Michael Fritze]

The "meta panel" approach is better than "single slider". With the "meta" concept no new algorithm is needed. Instead, the meta panel is linked to selected values of normal modules. If you need to dig deeper into those modules, go right there. Ideally the value selection would be configurable.

 

BR, Micha.

 

Gesendet: Freitag, 13. Juli 2018 um 09:57 Uhr
Von: "Maurizio Paglia" 
An: "Remco Viëtor" 
Cc: darktable-user@lists.darktable.org
Betreff: Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics



Lightroom 'easy sliders' are available also in Rawtherapee i.e. Rawtherapee followed the same LR approach.

DT is different (as correctly Remco said).

I started developing my raw files with DT, I feel very comfortable with it and when I was forced to use LR (during a training course) I felt disoriented because with DT I can do EXACTLY what I need, with LR I cannot...

I am not a developer but I think if we want double commands on each module, it means dt team will have to write TWO different algorithms for EACH module.

This is a huge effort for a rather small team!

You can feel uncomfortable with 'multi sliders' but you have available presets and styles that can be used as starting point and will welp to learn

 (IF you want and/or have time to learn).

A 'single slide' control can seem easy to use but I am not so sure...

 

Cheers,

Maurizio


 
2018-07-12 15:55 GMT+02:00 Remco Viëtor <remco.vie...@wanadoo.fr>:



On jeudi 12 juillet 2018 15:10:27 CEST Ben Oliver wrote:
> On 18-07-12 09:05:01, Jason Polak wrote:
> >My first point is that if this 'simple slider' function were made part
> >of dt, it should be easy to deactivate it so that it does not appear at
> >all.
> >
> >My second point is that perhaps there is also simplicity in the way
> >darktable currently does things, and from some users' perspectives,
> >having a 'simple slider' function that links to other modules might
> >actually complicate the UI. Moreover, if a bunch of new users are
> >exposed to the 'simple slider', I wonder if it might make it more
> >complicated for some and easier for others? (In that having two ways to
> >modify an option might be confusing, and there is a real chance of
> >messing up the nice system we already have).
> >
> >Jason
>
> You have verbalised my exact thoughts on this. Could not agree more.
 

Given the repeated mention of Lightroom in this thread, I wonder how many of
those that want the 'easy' slider panel have been using LR before trying DT.
After all, DT on windows isn't all that old...

And it's very common to feel disoriented when you have to change your working
habits, even when the "new" system is better. That is not to imply that DT's
gui is better (or worse) than LR's, but it is different.



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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[Maurizio Paglia]

Lightroom 'easy sliders' are available also in Rawtherapee i.e. Rawtherapee
followed the same LR approach.
DT is different (as correctly Remco said).
I started developing my raw files with DT, I feel very comfortable with it
and when I was forced to use LR (during a training course) I felt
disoriented because with DT I can do EXACTLY what I need, with LR I
cannot...
I am not a developer but I think if we want double commands on each module,
it means dt team will have to write TWO different algorithms for EACH
module.
This is a huge effort for a rather small team!
You can feel uncomfortable with 'multi sliders' but you have available
presets and styles that can be used as starting point and will welp to learn
 (IF you want and/or have time to learn).
A 'single slide' control can seem easy to use but I am not so sure...

Cheers,
Maurizio

2018-07-12 15:55 GMT+02:00 Remco Viëtor :

> On jeudi 12 juillet 2018 15:10:27 CEST Ben Oliver wrote:
> > On 18-07-12 09:05:01, Jason Polak wrote:
> > >My first point is that if this 'simple slider' function were made part
> > >of dt, it should be easy to deactivate it so that it does not appear at
> > >all.
> > >
> > >My second point is that perhaps there is also simplicity in the way
> > >darktable currently does things, and from some users' perspectives,
> > >having a 'simple slider' function that links to other modules might
> > >actually complicate the UI. Moreover, if a bunch of new users are
> > >exposed to the 'simple slider', I wonder if it might make it more
> > >complicated for some and easier for others? (In that having two ways to
> > >modify an option might be confusing, and there is a real chance of
> > >messing up the nice system we already have).
> > >
> > >Jason
> >
> > You have verbalised my exact thoughts on this. Could not agree more.
>
> Given the repeated mention of Lightroom in this thread, I wonder how many
> of
> those that want the 'easy' slider panel have been using LR before trying
> DT.
> After all, DT on windows isn't all that old...
>
> And it's very common to feel disoriented when you have to change your
> working
> habits, even when the "new" system is better. That is not to imply that
> DT's
> gui is better (or worse) than LR's, but it is different.
>
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscribe@
> lists.darktable.org
>
>


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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[Remco Viëtor]

On jeudi 12 juillet 2018 15:10:27 CEST Ben Oliver wrote:
> On 18-07-12 09:05:01, Jason Polak wrote:
> >My first point is that if this 'simple slider' function were made part
> >of dt, it should be easy to deactivate it so that it does not appear at
> >all.
> >
> >My second point is that perhaps there is also simplicity in the way
> >darktable currently does things, and from some users' perspectives,
> >having a 'simple slider' function that links to other modules might
> >actually complicate the UI. Moreover, if a bunch of new users are
> >exposed to the 'simple slider', I wonder if it might make it more
> >complicated for some and easier for others? (In that having two ways to
> >modify an option might be confusing, and there is a real chance of
> >messing up the nice system we already have).
> >
> >Jason
> 
> You have verbalised my exact thoughts on this. Could not agree more.

Given the repeated mention of Lightroom in this thread, I wonder how many of 
those that want the 'easy' slider panel have been using LR before trying DT. 
After all, DT on windows isn't all that old...

And it's very common to feel disoriented when you have to change your working 
habits, even when the "new" system is better. That is not to imply that DT's 
gui is better (or worse) than LR's, but it is different.


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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[Ben Oliver]

On 18-07-12 09:05:01, Jason Polak wrote:

My first point is that if this 'simple slider' function were made part
of dt, it should be easy to deactivate it so that it does not appear at all.

My second point is that perhaps there is also simplicity in the way
darktable currently does things, and from some users' perspectives,
having a 'simple slider' function that links to other modules might
actually complicate the UI. Moreover, if a bunch of new users are
exposed to the 'simple slider', I wonder if it might make it more
complicated for some and easier for others? (In that having two ways to
modify an option might be confusing, and there is a real chance of
messing up the nice system we already have).

Jason


You have verbalised my exact thoughts on this. Could not agree more.


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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[Jason Polak]

I would like to provide a counterpoint. I am wondering if perhaps the
quick-slider panel way of doing things actually is more natural for
people who come from lightroom or other programs, just because it exists
in those programs.

I pretty much started using darktable first, and only tried Lightroom
later. For me, after a few days of using it, using darktable became very
natural. This is true for both quick edits and complex development. The
concepts I want to use are easily mapped onto darktable functions. In
contrast, I tried Lightroom for a few days out of interest and I found
their 'quick slider' approach to be frustrating and counterintuitive,
simply because I used it after using darktable. After using Lightroom
for a while I got used to it too, but I prefer darktable's UI.

My first point is that if this 'simple slider' function were made part
of dt, it should be easy to deactivate it so that it does not appear at all.

My second point is that perhaps there is also simplicity in the way
darktable currently does things, and from some users' perspectives,
having a 'simple slider' function that links to other modules might
actually complicate the UI. Moreover, if a bunch of new users are
exposed to the 'simple slider', I wonder if it might make it more
complicated for some and easier for others? (In that having two ways to
modify an option might be confusing, and there is a real chance of
messing up the nice system we already have).

Jason

On 2018-07-12 01:35 AM, kneops wrote:
> I could present myself as an example user. I started like many others in
> the ninetees with Photoshop, part as a freelance photographer, later
> combied with my profession as a webdesigner. I worked for many years on
> Windows and Macs, now exclusively on Linux. I used many kinds of
> software, from llustrator to Flash to Gimp to all kinds of video editing
> software and raw processors. Never have I encountered a piece of
> software that gave me such troubles getting used to as DT. In the last
> couple of years I installed and removed it many many times. A few months
> ago I gave it another try and now I'm using it as my main raw processor,
> but each time hoping there would be a simpler UI.

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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[Remco Viëtor]

On jeudi 12 juillet 2018 14:00:34 CEST Ben Oliver wrote:
> On 18-07-12 07:05:18, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> >if you wish a very basic interface in an editor, there are a few that
> >exist.  you can use the automagic feature in geeqie or shotwell or
> >ShowFoto.
> 
> I think this may be the real answer to the problem. Anything on top of
> DT's current system would inadvertently add even more complexity to the
> UI, without a massive overhaul.
> 
> And for what gain? To achieve something doable in other programs?

My feelings exactly, the more as the 'favourites' panel gets quite close to 
what is proposed, without hiding the more advanced options in the modules 
(like masking...) 

> I have also had to process batches of a few hundred photos and I can't
> say I felt the current system of favourite modules and presets has
> hindered me too much.

There's also the option to copy (part of) the history stack from one image to 
one or several others, something I had occasion to use recently. I had several 
hundred images of a performance, in groups of 10-20. Presets/styles would have 
been clumsy, as basically being single-use, so editing one in each group and 
copying the history stack was just what was needed there.

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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[Ben Oliver]

On 18-07-12 07:05:18, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

if you wish a very basic interface in an editor, there are a few that
exist.  you can use the automagic feature in geeqie or shotwell or
ShowFoto.


I think this may be the real answer to the problem. Anything on top of 
DT's current system would inadvertently add even more complexity to the 
UI, without a massive overhaul.


And for what gain? To achieve something doable in other programs?

I have also had to process batches of a few hundred photos and I can't 
say I felt the current system of favourite modules and presets has 
hindered me too much.


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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[Patrick Shanahan]

* kneops  [07-12-18 01:38]:
> I understand your point of view, but not every picture needs a lot of
> darkroom editing and not every picture is an artwork.
> 
> DT already has its own presets for every slider, so those could be used in
> the first 'easy' or 'basic' panel. If needed, a user could use the basics
> panel to adjust the sliders the way he wants, then save that as a preset
> when importing new images.

why not just save your "basics" adjustments which you intend to apply to
every import or to a large group as a style and apply the style on import? 
then dev's do not have to do any work, you have accomplished your end game
w/o an additional "easy/basic" panel

> It's all about user friendliness and accessibility for (new) users imho. I'm
> absolutely sure it would attract (and keep!) much more users if DT would
> offer such a basic panel with sliders. Also, in my experience with DT, less
> editing often means better and more natural results.

anyone beginning with a "new" program must learn how the program works,
just the same a using an editor which uses a different command set than
you are accustomed, ie: vim/emacs.  you learn the basic required steps and
those additionally required when necessary, or not.

if you wish a very basic interface in an editor, there are a few that
exist.  you can use the automagic feature in geeqie or shotwell or
ShowFoto.
 
> I could present myself as an example user. I started like many others in the
> ninetees with Photoshop, part as a freelance photographer, later combied
> with my profession as a webdesigner. I worked for many years on Windows and
> Macs, now exclusively on Linux. I used many kinds of software, from
> llustrator to Flash to Gimp to all kinds of video editing software and raw
> processors. Never have I encountered a piece of software that gave me such
> troubles getting used to as DT. In the last couple of years I installed and
> removed it many many times. A few months ago I gave it another try and now
> I'm using it as my main raw processor, but each time hoping there would be a
> simpler UI.

the "grass is always greener".  but what is simpler for you is not
necessarily simpler for others.

-- 
(paka)Patrick Shanahan   Plainfield, Indiana, USA  @ptilopteri
http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri
Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net
Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo   paka @ IRCnet freenode

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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[Koos Pol]

Op 12-07-18 om 04:30 schreef David Vincent-Jones:
The 'simple slider' misses out on all of those subtle nuances that 
makes the output from dt so much different from other systems.


And that's exactly why I'd like such a simple slider, indeed to get rid 
of all the subtle nuances.


Your idea for instance in providing simple sliders for 'shadows' and 
'highlights' .. what filter would you want and what radius?


That's for DT to figure out, or for the SSD (Simple Slider Developer ;-)
Anything which is an improvement over the non-edited version is 
acceptable. And then the person behind the keyboard can select the 
improvement, or deselect it if it didn't give it sufficient improvement 
from his perspective.


... and if I wanted other filters would that be just too bad. It takes 
time and patience to appreciate the fullness of dt, 


You have no idea how often I've been annoyed by the fact that I can't 
find what I think I need, at which point DT doesn't give me any support. 
Just because of the complicated UI and the enormous amount of options. 
For the couple of times per year that I process my raw images it again 
and again takes me a few nights to get going. So yes, for the expert I 
think there is a use case to have all those options available. For the 
occasional photographer like myself DT is a dense tropical forest hard 
to find your way through. BTW, the more options available to more 
important it becomes to have a very well organized UI, whether 
professional photographer or not.



It takes time and patience to appreciate the fullness of dt,


Why do I need to appreciate te fullness of DT?

in my opinion that effort is well compensated through the creative 
capability.


That's not me you're talking about. IMO you're generalizing the DT 
population as (semi) professional photographers who can't survive 
without all the bells and whistles of DT at their disposal.


Koos



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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[kneops]

Perhaps the word /accessibility/ could be added to this. And I'm not a 
novice user :)




Op 11-07-18 om 09:02 schreef Koos Pol:



Op 10-07-18 om 23:50 schreef Coding Dave:
In reality the options darktable offers make it a nice tool for 
experts and a horrible tool for beginners. For people that did not 
start with an easy to use program like LR it is even harder because 
the learning curve is so high.


You've hit the nail on the head. I use DT much less than I'd like just 
because of the complexity of the GUI and the organisation of the 
modules. I shoot in raw and for my vacation pics, I only need the 
basics to brush them up. But I never know where to find what I need. 
And I really don't want to become a DT expert. That would be so much 
missing the point.  So what happens is that I save up  a years worth 
of pictures (perhaps one hundred) re-learn how to use DT and then 
process them in the second evening of the "DT 101 course". So yes, I 
support the Basic option with a passion :-)


Koos

 


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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[kneops]

Hi Dave, and thanks for your elaborate reply on this. This is exactly 
what I mean. It shortens the workflow tremendously. I sometimes do sport 
events or events for a university. I could copy paste the base settings 
of one image to all others, then quickly run through the rest to make 
slight adjustments where needed, export and away they are to whoever 
needs them :).


By the way, the 'Detail' slider is from the Local Contrast module.

Jack




Op 10-07-18 om 23:50 schreef Coding Dave:

Hi,

I strongly support kneops with his Idea - its similar to an Idea I had 
in mind for a longer time:


In reality the options darktable offers make it a nice tool for 
experts and a horrible tool for beginners. For people that did not 
start with an easy to use program like LR it is even harder because 
the learning curve is so high.


A power user would probably need all the options of each darktable 
module whereas an beginner needs only the most fundamental stuff. I 
see a continuum here with the expert on one side and the beginner on 
the other.
However, darktable has so many modules, options, effects, workflows, 
and a variety of combinations that the learning curve is quite hard 
for beginners. And remember the pareto principle. You could say that 
with 20% of darktable you can already get 80% of the results and for 
the last 20% you would require to use 80% more - you know what I'm 
getting at.


Lets be honest, neither you always need all the sliders nor is the 
useability from darktable extraordinary well:
Sometimes it would be better if you only have the minimum necessary. 
It would be nice to collect these and place them all in one common 
place. Im not talking about reducing darktable and removing 
possibilities. No way - darktable lives from its feature rich 
implementation although feature-rich is like contradictionary to 
ease-of-use and useability.
The only thing I suggest is to extract (link, not copy) the most 
important sliders from other modules into one meta module that lists 
them. This meta module would be a feature wise abstraction by only 
offering the most important feature of a module. This would be very 
very helpful for beginners and quick edits. Of course some poweruser 
would be required to suggest the list of sliders that is to be shown 
there by default. In a second step adding/removing sliders in the 
meta-module similar to the favourite menu would make the program even 
more flexible and user-friendly.


When we look at the modules kneops has extracted his favorite 
meta-module we can see that many options are like the critical 
features, some are compensation/adjustment values, and some are expert 
settings anyhow (like the blending - how often do you deal with that? 
If you work with 40 modules I bet you are not using 40 blend options 
as well):

= levels
- mode
- *UI diagram*
- auto, pick black, pick medium gray, pick white
- blend
= exposure
- mode
- black
- *exposure*
- clipping threshold
- blend
= white balance
- *tint*
- *temperature*
- red
- green
- blue
- preset
- finetune
= contrast brightness saturation
- *contrast*
- *brightness*
- *saturation*
- blend
= shadows and highlights
- *shadows*
- *highlights*
- white point adjustment
- soften with
- radius
- compress
- shadows color adjustment
- highlights color adjustment
- blend
= crop and rotate
- flip
- *angle* (rotate)
- keystone
- automatic cropping
- aspects
- guides
= sharpen
- radius
- *amount* (sharpen)
- threshold
- blend
= no idea where "detail" comes from

Here we have ~40 lines of options/sliders, only 11 I would rate are 
the core features, we have a selection in one module that comes from 8 
different modules from different module columns, and 5 options are 
"blend" (how often do you need that? I love that but honestly I use 
the modules mostly without blend).


Usually these feature listed above are spread over several modules and 
you have to search for them before you find them. The search alone 
across several module columns is time intensive. Having the modules 
expanded is wasting space, opening and closing them manually is time 
consuming again.


Imagine your editing procedure to start with the quick-adjustments on 
the meta-menu. Imagine you have many of your most important features 
available (linked) there and are quickly done with a rough edit. 
Imagine you realize you need more options like for example the 
compress slider of the shadows and highlights. Imagine you are opening 
the module and you see the sliders therein have the same values as 
they are on the meta module. Wouldn't that simplify your workflow and 
speeding you up without stopping you at any point?


For sure I am missing many very important features you are using 
regularly. I just try to share my vision. Imagine you can add your 
features easily and are able to customize your own copy of darktable 
to your linkings.


Kind regards
Dave

Am Di., 10. Juli 2018 um 13:01 Uhr schrieb kneops >:


I already 

Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[Koos Pol]

Op 10-07-18 om 23:50 schreef Coding Dave:
In reality the options darktable offers make it a nice tool for 
experts and a horrible tool for beginners. For people that did not 
start with an easy to use program like LR it is even harder because 
the learning curve is so high.


You've hit the nail on the head. I use DT much less than I'd like just 
because of the complexity of the GUI and the organisation of the 
modules. I shoot in raw and for my vacation pics, I only need the basics 
to brush them up. But I never know where to find what I need. And I 
really don't want to become a DT expert. That would be so much missing 
the point.  So what happens is that I save up  a years worth of pictures 
(perhaps one hundred) re-learn how to use DT and then process them in 
the second evening of the "DT 101 course". So yes, I support the Basic 
option with a passion :-)


Koos


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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[Coding Dave]

Hi,

I strongly support kneops with his Idea - its similar to an Idea I had in
mind for a longer time:

In reality the options darktable offers make it a nice tool for experts and
a horrible tool for beginners. For people that did not start with an easy
to use program like LR it is even harder because the learning curve is so
high.

A power user would probably need all the options of each darktable module
whereas an beginner needs only the most fundamental stuff. I see a
continuum here with the expert on one side and the beginner on the other.
However, darktable has so many modules, options, effects, workflows, and a
variety of combinations that the learning curve is quite hard for
beginners. And remember the pareto principle. You could say that with 20%
of darktable you can already get 80% of the results and for the last 20%
you would require to use 80% more - you know what I'm getting at.

Lets be honest, neither you always need all the sliders nor is the
useability from darktable extraordinary well:
Sometimes it would be better if you only have the minimum necessary. It
would be nice to collect these and place them all in one common place. Im
not talking about reducing darktable and removing possibilities. No way -
darktable lives from its feature rich implementation although feature-rich
is like contradictionary to ease-of-use and useability.
The only thing I suggest is to extract (link, not copy) the most important
sliders from other modules into one meta module that lists them. This meta
module would be a feature wise abstraction by only offering the most
important feature of a module. This would be very very helpful for
beginners and quick edits. Of course some poweruser would be required to
suggest the list of sliders that is to be shown there by default. In a
second step adding/removing sliders in the meta-module similar to the
favourite menu would make the program even more flexible and user-friendly.

When we look at the modules kneops has extracted his favorite meta-module
we can see that many options are like the critical features, some are
compensation/adjustment values, and some are expert settings anyhow (like
the blending - how often do you deal with that? If you work with 40 modules
I bet you are not using 40 blend options as well):
= levels
- mode
- *UI diagram*
- auto, pick black, pick medium gray, pick white
- blend
= exposure
- mode
- black
- *exposure*
- clipping threshold
- blend
= white balance
- *tint*
- *temperature*
- red
- green
- blue
- preset
- finetune
= contrast brightness saturation
- *contrast*
- *brightness*
- *saturation*
- blend
= shadows and highlights
- *shadows*
- *highlights*
- white point adjustment
- soften with
- radius
- compress
- shadows color adjustment
- highlights color adjustment
- blend
= crop and rotate
- flip
- *angle* (rotate)
- keystone
- automatic cropping
- aspects
- guides
= sharpen
- radius
- *amount* (sharpen)
- threshold
- blend
= no idea where "detail" comes from

Here we have ~40 lines of options/sliders, only 11 I would rate are the
core features, we have a selection in one module that comes from 8
different modules from different module columns, and 5 options are "blend"
(how often do you need that? I love that but honestly I use the modules
mostly without blend).

Usually these feature listed above are spread over several modules and you
have to search for them before you find them. The search alone across
several module columns is time intensive. Having the modules expanded is
wasting space, opening and closing them manually is time consuming again.

Imagine your editing procedure to start with the quick-adjustments on the
meta-menu. Imagine you have many of your most important features available
(linked) there and are quickly done with a rough edit. Imagine you realize
you need more options like for example the compress slider of the shadows
and highlights. Imagine you are opening the module and you see the sliders
therein have the same values as they are on the meta module. Wouldn't that
simplify your workflow and speeding you up without stopping you at any
point?

For sure I am missing many very important features you are using regularly.
I just try to share my vision. Imagine you can add your features easily and
are able to customize your own copy of darktable to your linkings.

Kind regards
Dave

Am Di., 10. Juli 2018 um 13:01 Uhr schrieb kneops :

> I already did :) You've seen the screenshot I put in my first mail?
>
>
>
>
> Op 10-07-18 om 12:45 schreef Anders Lund:
> > Hi,
> >
> > You could use the favourite modules feature to collect the basics :)
> >
> > Kindly,
> > Anders
> >
> > tirsdag den 10. juli 2018 10.51.57 CEST skrev kneops:
> >> After Bruce let us know he is doing some tutorials on DT and I replied
> >> that the UI is sometimes so complex that tutorials are really necessary,
> >> this is a way I think DT could be made simpler for novice users and for
> >> quick edits, especially handy for photographers who shoot 

Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[kneops]

I already did :) You've seen the screenshot I put in my first mail?




Op 10-07-18 om 12:45 schreef Anders Lund:

Hi,

You could use the favourite modules feature to collect the basics :)

Kindly,
Anders

tirsdag den 10. juli 2018 10.51.57 CEST skrev kneops:

After Bruce let us know he is doing some tutorials on DT and I replied
that the UI is sometimes so complex that tutorials are really necessary,
this is a way I think DT could be made simpler for novice users and for
quick edits, especially handy for photographers who shoot press images
and have to deliver quick (like I have to do sometimes).

At this moment these are among my favorite tools:



But now I have to open sharpness to sharpen, then open contrast to add
contrast, then open white balace for temperature, than back to contast
to add saturation etc.

Why not add a Quick Tab with only sliders like this.



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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[Anders Lund]

Hi,

You could use the favourite modules feature to collect the basics :)

Kindly,
Anders

tirsdag den 10. juli 2018 10.51.57 CEST skrev kneops:
> After Bruce let us know he is doing some tutorials on DT and I replied
> that the UI is sometimes so complex that tutorials are really necessary,
> this is a way I think DT could be made simpler for novice users and for
> quick edits, especially handy for photographers who shoot press images
> and have to deliver quick (like I have to do sometimes).
> 
> At this moment these are among my favorite tools:
> 
> 
> 
> But now I have to open sharpness to sharpen, then open contrast to add
> contrast, then open white balace for temperature, than back to contast
> to add saturation etc.
> 
> Why not add a Quick Tab with only sliders like this.
> 
> 
> 
> darktable user mailing list
> to unsubscribe send a mail to darktable-user+unsubscr...@lists.darktable.org





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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[kneops]

Yes, that is an option, but it would not give you all options in one 
view. You have to scroll a lot and within a module with lots of sliders 
find the one you need. One compact 'Easy tab' would be much nicer imho, 
and than leave all the other modules for the Pros and those that want to 
spend more time on an image to make it perfect.




Op 10-07-18 om 11:05 schreef Ben Oliver:

On 18-07-10 10:51:57, kneops wrote:
After Bruce let us know he is doing some tutorials on DT and I 
replied that the UI is sometimes so complex that tutorials are really 
necessary, this is a way I think DT could be made simpler for novice 
users and for quick edits, especially handy for photographers who 
shoot press images and have to deliver quick (like I have to do 
sometimes).


Not quite what you are asking for but it could help: in preferences -> 
GUI options you can set 'expand a single darkroom module at a time' to 
off.  That way all your sliders in favourites will show up at the same 
time.


Thanks Bruce for putting it in the video!



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Re: [darktable-user] One panel with basics

[Ben Oliver]

On 18-07-10 10:51:57, kneops wrote:
After Bruce let us know he is doing some tutorials on DT and I 
replied that the UI is sometimes so complex that tutorials are really 
necessary, this is a way I think DT could be made simpler for novice 
users and for quick edits, especially handy for photographers who 
shoot press images and have to deliver quick (like I have to do 
sometimes).


Not quite what you are asking for but it could help: in preferences -> 
GUI options you can set 'expand a single darkroom module at a time' to 
off.  That way all your sliders in favourites will show up at the same 
time.


Thanks Bruce for putting it in the video!


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