Re: [OT] bread prices and economics] [WAS] Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Celejar wrote: On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 10:35:23 -0500 John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Celejar writes: Doesn't basic economics dictate that given competition, the equilibrium price is determined by both supply and demand? Even if I'm willing to pay a great deal, if the cost to produce the item is low, competition should drive down the price. People who buy cheap white bread buy cheap white bread. They just want something to stuff in the kids' mouths. Price is almost all that matters. People who buy whole wheat bread are picky. They want bread that they believe fits their notions about nutrition and are influenced by what their friends say and by the labeling and advertising. Price is far from their sole criteria: some will deliberately avoid the cheapest brand because they believe that it must be inferior. Some will buy the most expensive brand because you get what you pay for or just so they can brag. Well, yes, much recent work on economics has apparently shown that the old assumption of economists that people behave rationally has been greatly exaggerated. Are you implying that the market is a monopoly or oligarchy? No. The generic white bread market and the whole-wheat bread market are two different markets with different elasticities. This results in different equilibrium prices even with identical costs (which they probably aren't). This is basic economics. Did you not study it at university? The bottom line is that if the cost is the same or lower (the assumption of the OP, because less processing is done), then given perfect competition, the price should be, too. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by elasticity in this context (I know a bit of economics, but I didn't study it at university). Elasticity of demand, AFAIK, means greater flexibility for the consumer to do without a product or to substitute something else for it if the price increases. I don't see how that explains a price differential not based on higher costs. Celejar Since we're now off topic and discussing the price of bread, I will point out that where I live, the cost of a loaf of whole-wheat bread is the same as a loaf of white. Why is that so? Probably because they are are equally popular. Note however, there is one type of bread, which is about the third of the price of a normal loaf. That is sold from the bottom shelf of the bread area, and targeted at I believe the less fortunate. I have tried that bread; it is not poor quality. Thus, laws of economics fail in this instance because it costs the factories roughly the same to produce the cheap bread and the normal bread, yet the normal bread is 3 times the price. I will admit however the normal bread tastes normal when thawed after being frozen for a week, but the cheap bread does not take well to freezing. Perhaps it is because the cheap bread has been previously frozen and that is why it is cheap in the first place. In any event, the economics of bread compared to the economics of computers is a poor analogy. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGDURNiXBCVWpc5J4RAvC7AJ98Mfpaig+MyfuqFYdGItZ3P9gv1wCcDSzJ dHj9iKju5uFLR72E2FKhhxM= =qHD2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bonding problems
Hi, I am configuring a bonding in linux (Debian) and I have many problems. Always Only one card it's receiving and sending packets. My config is: iface bond0 inet static address 192.168.18.210 netmask 255.255.255.0 network 192.168.18.0 broadcast 192.168.18.255 gateway 192.168.18.254 up ifenslave bond0 eth0 eth1 down ifenslave -d bond0 eth0 eth1 Other problem is when I ifdown then bonding device the OS goes to a infinite loop and I have to shutdown uncleanly, it's strange I load the module with mode=0 and mode=4 options, with miimon=100 and without miimon option... I don't know. I haven't a 803.2ad switch capable and the mode=4 fails and it's OK. The ethernet cards I'm using are a Realtek 8169 (From DLINK and KTI) .. I don't know what can be the problem ... You know ?? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: a dumb query? pls humor me
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 09:02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] The order in question is this: http://www.kron.com/global/story.asp?s=1962000ClientType=Printable Changing subject... Text of Bush's Order on Treatment of Detainees Posted: June 22, 2004 at 5:35 p.m. Text of order signed by President Bush on Feb. 7, 2002, outlining treatment of al-Qaida and Taliban detainees: 1. Our recent extensive discussions regarding the status of al-Qaida and Taliban detainees confirm that the application of Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners [snip] manner to our allies, and other countries and international organizations cooperating in the war against terrorism of global reach. (Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.) How can the AP copyright a Presidential Order? - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDU4+S9HxQb37XmcRAgLuAKDoWWF1WSs8qHaBOQdKcFB54BrXeQCguQ+m lV9H19CBXavGPprhkFay5+s= =aODX -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
Greg Folkert writes: Ratio of White flour to Wheat flour? What do you guess? 6-7 white flour train cars to 1 Wheat flour. We are talking 160,000 pounds each train car. Each car being a 100 ton car. Sounds like a plausible ratio. However, you're still talking carload quantities. The difference is not likely to make the white flour more than a few percent cheaper than the whole wheat (and the cost of the flour isn't that large a fraction of the price of the bread anyway). Of course, there was a time when white bread was the fancy, expensive stuff... -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
Paul E Condon writes: Without wishing to claim any originality for the observation, I say that whatever hardware vendors do vis-a-vis Linux is largely irrelevant to the future of Linux. Linux will not be commonplace on [desk|lap]tops until major hardware vendors ship it (not that I care all that much). It is using Debian for the foundation software of its hardware test CDs. This is a real endorsement. The people who buy desktops and laptops don't know or care about such endorsements. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 12:06, Greg Folkert wrote: On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 10:58 -0500, John Hasler wrote: Michael A. Marsh writes: In that case, it's an economy of scale. Most people want white bread, so bread companies buy a lot more white flour than whole grain. That was probably true decades ago but I think that these days the whole-wheat market is large enough that the cost differences are minimal. We have 3 bread factories and one Keebler here in town. They get the bulk flour in via train cars, then transfer it to trucks then into the factory. It takes 3 Trucks to empty and transfer a single train car. Ratio of White flour to Wheat flour? What do you guess? 6-7 white flour train cars to 1 Wheat flour. We are talking 160,000 pounds each train car. Each car being a 100 ton car. Or how about the fact that the Wonder-Bread factory in Indianapolis still only receives white flour? What about the Keebler factory here in town? Well they make cookies and bread. Hugely slants the ratio to white flour, so I don't really now. Not only that, but 1) whole wheat breads are typically more than just s/white/whole wheat/ 2) whole wheat breads spoil quicker (higher oil content) 3) consumers of whole wheat breads are typically higher-income than white bread, meaning sellers can charge more. [snip] - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDVCjS9HxQb37XmcRAvsiAJoDpeFl5+lRT+SyOeD3tcWjQ+m8bACfdfLc eBDmm8pe4DjkeTfU9PiNNk8= =o5c3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
snip Max Hyre [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Their per-hardware-unit-sold license was so much cheaper than the per-OS-copy-sold license that it made no sense to do anything else. Thus, any system sent out already had the cost of MS-DOS (later MS Windows) built into its price. Hence, remarks about the ``Microsoft Tax''. Once this happens, adding any other OS, no matter what (= 0) its price, means more effort for the manufacturer. It raises the cost of the sale, and Linux is frozen out by economics. Thats a very fine point, I totally agree! What I am wondering is when will the lost sales to consumers who want Gnu/Linux on their boxes will outway the extra cost. In other words at what cost say Gnu/linux offer = lost sales. I do think the Windows tax is a perceived cost even as you so pointed out might not be a factual one. I think that consumers, expect to see a Gnu/Linux system to be cheaper. So if I was Dell I would offer a base model about 15-30 dollars cheaper then a similar Windows box let the consumer choose the addons. I bet the increase in volume sales would make up for poor product margins. I just hope that HP will get into somewhat of a marketing war with Dell, see who can have the best Gnu/Linux offer. One good thing that I see come out of this is good Gnu/Linux hardware support. If this catches on, has some good volumes you might see Windows only hardware support decline as it would be much cheaper just to use Gnu/Linux. The cost to certify hardware for Windows might make that choice easy, when a company knows they will not sell hardware to Gnu/Linux and only have Windows they might change behavior. In fact you might see a reversal instead of having hardware support for Windows, you will have it for Gnu/Linux, then you have to add the cost of all the different versions of Windows ie 64 bit Vista, 32 bit XP on and on. Gnu_Raiz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hostname (none) after dist-upgrade
On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 12:08:48PM -0700, Jeff Dickison wrote: On Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Hans du Plooy wrote: Hi guys, I did a dist-upgrade from sarge to etch on a server and all went well, except for one thing. At console, I now see this: root@(none):~#hostname (none) root@(none):~# hostname -f hostname: Unknown host BUT: root@(none):~# cat /etc/hostname rimwards.obscured.tld root@(none):~# cat /etc/hosts 127.0.0.1 localhost 80.xxx.xxx.xxx rimwards.obscured.tld rimwards If I set the hostname manually with hostname hostname Has anyone seen this or know how to fix it? I'm chasing my tail right now. Thanks Hans Having it in /etc/hostname should do it, it's actually referenced by /etc/init.d/hostname.sh. So, you might also want to check that it is actually being called at boot. you can also set it in /etc/sysctl.conf , add: kernel.hostname=your.host.name then, sysctl -p , and you are all set. hth, Jeff DO NOT edit /etc/hostnames without editing /etc/hosts first! From what I remember reading doing so makes your system unusable, although I'm not 100% sure if that's true. Just warning you, though. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: update to latest etch caused multiple problems - can't boot, no sound
On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 02:28:20 +0800, John Lee wrote: first of all I cannot boot after update. traced and find out some strange problems: 1. sd_mod won't load. my system is running on SATA so mdadm will fail to assemble my (/home) md0. also the system will not be able to mount (/root) /dev/sda1 since all /dev/sda* were not there. 2. change grub option to use initrd.img-2.6.18-4-686.bak instead, the system boots fine, but the sound stops working. # lsmod | grep snd snd_intel8x0 30332 0 snd_ac97_codec 83104 1 snd_intel8x0 snd_ac97_bus2400 1 snd_ac97_codec snd_pcm_oss38368 0 snd_mixer_oss 15200 1 snd_pcm_oss snd_pcm68676 3 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss snd_timer 20996 1 snd_pcm snd47012 6 snd_intel8x0,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss,snd_mixer_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer soundcore 9248 1 snd snd_page_alloc 9640 2 snd_intel8x0,snd_pcm #ls /dev/snd total 0 crw-rw 1 root audio 116, 33 2007-03-30 01:31 timer # ls /dev/dsp ls: /dev/dsp: No such file or directory # cat /proc/asound/cards 0 [SI7012 ]: ICH - SiS SI7012 SiS SI7012 with ALC655 at 0xe000, irq 10 # cat /proc/asound/devices 0: [ 0] : control 16: [ 0- 0]: digital audio playback 24: [ 0- 0]: digital audio capture 25: [ 0- 1]: digital audio capture 33:: timer # amixer amixer: Mixer attach default error: No such device # amixer -c 0 Invalid card number. alsaconf won't help either. any idea will be most appreciated. thanks. My guess is that some sound(-related) module from the old initrd does not work properly with the new kernel. I would not spend time trying to get sound to work until you can create a working initrd for your current kernel. It seems that the new initrd is missing the sd_mod module (and maybe others). You can make a backup of the old .bak initrd (just in case) and then try to generate a new initrd by running dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.18-4-686 Do you get any error messages? You can also try to use the other initrd creator, i.e. mkinitrd.yaird instead of the normal mkinitrd (or vice versa, depending on what you currently use). -- Regards, Florian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 11:00, Paul E Condon wrote: [snip] I didn't follow your argument, but of course Microsoft is a monopoly. There is no monopoly in the computer hardware manufacturing business, and there isn't an oligopoly, and certainly not an In June 2005, AMD sued Intel over anti-trust violations. http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2005Jun/gee20050629031144.htm claiming that Santa Clara-based Intel has violated 7 different kinds of anti-trust laws spread across three continents involving at least 38 separate large companies, all in an attempt to marginalize AMD's ability to sell its products. [snip] Former Compaq CEO Michael Capellas claims Intel [held] a gun to his head by witholding shipments of server chips, forcing Compaq to stop using AMD chips in its products. Gateway execs say Intel beat them into guacamole in pricing after Gateway announced a line of systems based on AMD's chips. Further, the suit alleges that Dell and Toshiba were paid large sums of money specifically to not do business with AMD. Sony was also coerced with millions for exclusivity to carry nothing but Intel-based products. AMD's share of Sony sales thereafter took a nosedive from 23% to zero, and has stayed there ever since. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDVKdS9HxQb37XmcRAmVxAKC/MRoKb2UEC1ZafiPT+Lwhp5PE7QCg22oV 7J2utcmKbAtiCZGzW2a7iA8= =iMWT -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: update to latest etch caused multiple problems - can't boot, no sound
On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 20:05 +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote: My guess is that some sound(-related) module from the old initrd does not work properly with the new kernel. I would not spend time trying to get sound to work until you can create a working initrd for your current kernel. It seems that the new initrd is missing the sd_mod module (and maybe others). You can make a backup of the old .bak initrd (just in case) and then try to generate a new initrd by running dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.18-4-686 Do you get any error messages? You can also try to use the other initrd creator, i.e. mkinitrd.yaird instead of the normal mkinitrd (or vice versa, depending on what you currently use). It turned out to be that he accidentally removed himself from the Audio Group. -- greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at the playfield. -- Thane Walkup -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
Paul Walsh wrote on Friday, March 30, 2007 2:23 AM -0600: Seth Goodman wrote: Most people could not complete a Linux install without a phone call to tech support. I suspect that's one part of the reason there are so few no-OS boxes. When the install doesn't turn out right, their first call is to the people who sold them the hardware, even though that's the least likely place to have a problem. Technically sophisticated users do not tend to do this, but that's a pretty small market. But surely the people most likely to buy no-OS boxes are also most likely to be clued up when it comes to installation? Someone new to Linux (or computing in general) isn't likely to buy a box without an OS on it, just as a newly qualified driver isn't likely to buy a car without an engine in it (unless they happen to be an auto-mechanic, of course). That's true as long as the price is the same. Other posters in this thread have given credible arguments why mainstream PC vendors have a similar cost whether they install Windows or not. If PC vendors nonetheless did offer a no-OS box at a lower price, people who are not capable of Linux installation would buy them and immediately call when they can't install their personal choice of Linux distro. As far as separating hardware from software issues, the suggestion of a live CD for hardware diagnostics is a good one. Unfortunately, when an unsophisticated user calls, you still have to spend time convincing them to run the hardware diagnostic CD first, and that costs you money. Even if you can prove the hardware is working properly, very few unsophisticated users would accept the situation they are left in, having spent money and yet without a usable computer. Returning the computer sticks the PC vendor with a used machine that they have to retest before selling it at a discount, and the original customer has to pay more money for a pre-installed OS box. This is a lose-lose scenario, so you can't fault PC vendors for trying to avoid it. -- Seth Goodman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] How much open is OpenSolaris?
From time to time I grab a diferent OS to install and try my hands at it. This time was OpenSolaris. The thing is, at some point in the install, OpenSolaris throws a license at my face that doesn't seem open at all. I can run the software, but I can't redistribute, copy, etc. I am no law expert, but that license doesn't seem really open or free. You did confuse terms. I don't know what you did install (most likely Solaris 10 or Solaris Express - the latter is the Solaris 11 betas) You did not install OpenSolaris, you simply can't as you cannot install Linux. You did rather install a Solaris distribution. If it shows something like: #uname -a SunOS opt 5.11 snv_xx i86pc i386 i86pc then the Solaris distribution you did install was OpenSolaris _based_. OpenSolaris is (in contrary to Linux) a complete OS like e.g. FreeBSD, it is however not a distribution that may be installed. You need to add a few things even to make a simple installable OS distribution. Sun Solaris is free but not as free as free beer as you need to pesonally aggree on the license (which is needed because Sun still needs to pay for some of the added software). Sun still gives you more freedom than e.g. Intel as Sun allows you to compile software you like to sell using the Sun Studio Compiler, Intel does not ;-) The Sun Studio compiler will be OpenSource in the near future, the Intel compiler most likely not. There are other OpenSolaris based distributions (e.g. SchilliX) that add different code in order to make an installable distribution. For this reason SchilliX is free software _and_ completely freely redistributable. Although you are not allowed to redistribute Sun Solaris, you still may do anything you like with Sun Solaris, you may even use it for commercial purposes. As far as I could tell, at least grub and (a javified version of) gnome are free, and OpenSolaris is using it. OpenSolaris uses an enhanced version of grub (Linux boots from the Solaris grub, but Solaris does not boot from the unmodified grub found on Linux distriibutions). OpenSolaris does not include gnome, Sun Solaris does. Sun is the biggest contributor for the gnome project, do you see a problem? are free, and OpenSolaris is using it. Maybe it uses other free software. So, doesn't that license conflicts with the gpl? The Debian distribution uses a lot of free software from Sun. In fact, 28% of the Debian distribution is from Sun (3x more than RedHat contributed and 5x more than IBM contributed). Do you see a licence conflict in Debian? Its not to flame Sun, I know the company has contributed a lot with the community, and many folks respects them. Just trying to get things clearer. If it helps, OpenSolaris is a really free project. Sun did follow my advise from November 2004 and we now have a OpenSolaris constitution as well as a OpenSolaris Government Board. OpenSolaris is not controlled by Sun but by the OGB. This makes OpenSolaris easier to deal with than the Linux Kernel that depends on a single person that controls what goes in and what not. The CDDL (used by OpenSolaris) is a license that is accepted as doubtlessly free by the OSS community. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 10:35, John Hasler wrote: Celejar writes: Doesn't basic economics dictate that given competition, the equilibrium price is determined by both supply and demand? Even if I'm willing to pay a great deal, if the cost to produce the item is low, competition should drive down the price. People who buy cheap white bread buy cheap white bread. They just want something to stuff in the kids' mouths. Price is almost all that matters. People who buy whole wheat bread are picky. They want bread that they believe fits their notions about nutrition and are influenced by what their friends say and by the labeling and advertising. Or, besides being better for you, it *tastes better* than that gummy white stuff. Oroweat 100% Whole Wheat is my family's standard bread. Price is far from their sole criteria: some will deliberately avoid the cheapest brand because they believe that it must be inferior. We buy the cheapest *whole* wheat bread at the local store that doesn't taste like crumbly cardboard. Some will buy the most expensive brand because you get what you pay for or just so they can brag. Are you implying that the market is a monopoly or oligarchy? No. The generic white bread market and the whole-wheat bread market are two different markets with different elasticities. This results in different equilibrium prices even with identical costs (which they probably aren't). This is basic economics. Did you not study it at university? Look at the ingredients list of white bread and whole wheat bread. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDVVYS9HxQb37XmcRAoKbAJ9X3k7Cg/DgxO+xeGiGkPHOvtw7vwCaAzRN EIYmUPEjQa6U5Ryf05iAeWQ= =hJEl -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 12:41 -0500, John Hasler wrote: Greg Folkert writes: Ratio of White flour to Wheat flour? What do you guess? 6-7 white flour train cars to 1 Wheat flour. We are talking 160,000 pounds each train car. Each car being a 100 ton car. Sounds like a plausible ratio. However, you're still talking carload quantities. The difference is not likely to make the white flour more than a few percent cheaper than the whole wheat (and the cost of the flour isn't that large a fraction of the price of the bread anyway). In actuality, white flour in those quantities is actually more expensive. There is more storage costs, processing costs[0], extra pre-cautions for contamination. Wheat has those as well, but fewer of them in less scale quantities. I though maybe you (or anyone) would have caught on to where I was going with this. Of course, there was a time when white bread was the fancy, expensive stuff... Which is exactly why the US (in general) has a preference for it. [0] == Think for instance, trying to get the evidence of a ground mouse or rat out of the white flour? Yes, it is gross to think about. There are FDA regulations about it. Same for hot-dogs and other ground meat. -- greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at the playfield. -- Thane Walkup -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 11:44, Joe Hart wrote: [snip] Needless to say, we are indeed in the midst of a flamewar, regardless This a flame war? whether one things that google has become a monopoly or not. But I see you're trying to pour gas on the fire. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDVZrS9HxQb37XmcRAvJbAJ4lEN6X9DW/PzFxYxeVIRx/r8MXwACgmtBR x3eCiVdz6tZ3PHePoq30gSw= =KTlp -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 01:10:37PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 11:00, Paul E Condon wrote: [snip] I didn't follow your argument, but of course Microsoft is a monopoly. There is no monopoly in the computer hardware manufacturing business, and there isn't an oligopoly, and certainly not an In June 2005, AMD sued Intel over anti-trust violations. http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2005Jun/gee20050629031144.htm claiming that Santa Clara-based Intel has violated 7 different kinds of anti-trust laws spread across three continents involving at least 38 separate large companies, all in an attempt to marginalize AMD's ability to sell its products. [snip] Former Compaq CEO Michael Capellas claims Intel [held] a gun to his head by witholding shipments of server chips, forcing Compaq to stop using AMD chips in its products. Gateway execs say Intel beat them into guacamole in pricing after Gateway announced a line of systems based on AMD's chips. Further, the suit alleges that Dell and Toshiba were paid large sums of money specifically to not do business with AMD. Sony was also coerced with millions for exclusivity to carry nothing but Intel-based products. AMD's share of Sony sales thereafter took a nosedive from 23% to zero, and has stayed there ever since. Yes, the chip makers also beat up on the computer box guys. The box guys don't have much opportunity to twist arms, do they? Beholden to the chip makers, beholden to the retailers, beholden to M$ -- not a happy condition. -- Paul E Condon [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 John Hasler wrote: Linux will not be commonplace on [desk|lap]tops until major hardware vendors ship it (not that I care all that much). Maybe you should care a little more :-) The way I see it, making Linux more popular is a two-edged sword. Currently, authors of various malware concentrate on MS Windows because it's the best bang for the buck. If and when the balance shifts away from Windows, we may see an upswing in the number of attacks against Linux. Linux may be a much more robust and secure system than Windows, but there are probably still security holes lurking that nobody (at least, no honest person) has yet discovered and patched. Even so, the balance may well have to shift significantly before malware authors start taking an interest. But I believe the danger is there, nonetheless. - -- Jim Hyslop Dreampossible: Better software. Simply. http://www.dreampossible.ca Consulting * Mentoring * Training in C/C++ * OOD * SW Development Practices * Version Management -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGDVgfLdDyDwyJw+MRAmiMAJ9EZh0xvlMUZhdktxvWxYYA5d3yPwCfdEUw A9Ai7nkhn435m2BAWaFNKR8= =q/Aq -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Gnu_Raiz wrote: What I am wondering is when will the lost sales to consumers who want Gnu/Linux on their boxes will outway the extra cost. In other words at what cost say Gnu/linux offer = lost sales. It seems to me the way to go, if you're willing to risk not having a warranty, is to demand the refund from the manufacturers. If enough people demand it, then Dell, HP et al will start getting tired of paying twice - once to MS and once to the consumer. - -- Jim Hyslop Dreampossible: Better software. Simply. http://www.dreampossible.ca Consulting * Mentoring * Training in C/C++ * OOD * SW Development Practices * Version Management -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGDVsBLdDyDwyJw+MRAmEhAKDYlyA8LP/ayGL/7WnFtrl5PU353QCffVkL EfiBJdO1vN4GKJaaINvFLP8= =Pv03 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: sponge burning!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 11:10, dave wrote: on Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 08:50:55AM -0500 Ron Johnson wrote: So you shoot the possibly-wounded Iraqi? If he's in the way, and others are shooting at you. I can already hear Arnt's squeal of righteous indignation starting to build. What about the live grenade he might be lying on? Turn him over later, carefully. Too bad meat hooks are too heavy to carry into battle. That doesn't seem to be the case with the US military. True, and the US military, along with a few others, are unique in that respect. It's a soft spot that opponents have exploited to advantage. The body bomb on the 8 year old kid comes to mind. In the suck, the mind changes. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDVupS9HxQb37XmcRAqNVAKCQ/nnO1VcSqMoJk/9t4m0WqzwtlgCgjab0 vgnRKFr09+8HOyyqu10HVFw= =HH+U -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ron Johnson wrote: There's [...] no need for Symantec anti-virus products. I'm curious why you say that. I'm fairly new to Linux, but I understand it is more robust and secure than MS Windows. Still, it's not totally secure - nothing made by humans could be. So, do you mean that there's no need for Symantec because of the freely available alternatives, or because Linux just doesn't need anti-virus protection, or something else altogether? - -- Jim Hyslop Dreampossible: Better software. Simply. http://www.dreampossible.ca Consulting * Mentoring * Training in C/C++ * OOD * SW Development Practices * Version Management -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGDVwwLdDyDwyJw+MRAgL8AJ9iNZ3kzMmviHiPN8i/SS+b+1tPGwCfRcpL 4scl3PjAge9QgRHJbPgp2u0= =qJFV -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 14:34 -0400, Jim Hyslop wrote: John Hasler wrote: Linux will not be commonplace on [desk|lap]tops until major hardware vendors ship it (not that I care all that much). Maybe you should care a little more :-) The way I see it, making Linux more popular is a two-edged sword. Currently, authors of various malware concentrate on MS Windows because it's the best bang for the buck. If and when the balance shifts away from Windows, we may see an upswing in the number of attacks against Linux. Linux may be a much more robust and secure system than Windows, but there are probably still security holes lurking that nobody (at least, no honest person) has yet discovered and patched. Let us look at the speed with which monolithic companies like Microsoft and Apple respond to problems of these kinds. Then let us look at the speed with which most of the popular alternative OSes respond to similar problems. Microsoft still has some exceptionally serious exploits open and not fixed for 2 years, regarding the integration of ActiveX with the OS and the Browser. Apple, had to be bombed into reacting for some 6+ month problems that lead to many issues on the users data and other files. Still not having any real issues with the core of the OS though. The core OS problems recently stomped on to get people to notice are issues Linux and most other *NIX based OSes have. Linux, since I really pay attention to Debian, I see since ~ October 2006, that most problems have been dealt with in a few-days to a couple of weeks, mainly due to back-porting trouble for Sarge contributing to the delay. With other distros not solely concerned about API and ABI consistency (RedHat for one giant example) they were able to issue a bump in the program days after a CVE was issued. Most open source project/programs that are not stagnant or abandoned, respond *VERY* quickly to proven exploits or overflows or logic flaws leading to memory leaks and local or remote exploits. Sometimes within minutes or hours of contact. Even so, the balance may well have to shift significantly before malware authors start taking an interest. But I believe the danger is there, nonetheless. Of course the danger is there. If you drive GM or Ford or Chyrsler, do you stand a larger risk of having an accident, than say... you driving a Daewoo or Hyundai or Saab? -- greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at the playfield. -- Thane Walkup -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bonding problems
On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 07:39:05PM +0200, Listas Locatel wrote: Hi, I am configuring a bonding in linux (Debian) and I have many problems. Always Only one card it's receiving and sending packets. My config is: iface bond0 inet static address 192.168.18.210 netmask 255.255.255.0 network 192.168.18.0 broadcast 192.168.18.255 gateway 192.168.18.254 up ifenslave bond0 eth0 eth1 down ifenslave -d bond0 eth0 eth1 Here is my configuration : http://smhteam.info/wiki/index.linux.php5?wiki=ChannelBonding The link is in french but you should be able to find what you need and compare your configuration to mine. If you want more informations, let me know. Other problem is when I ifdown then bonding device the OS goes to a infinite loop and I have to shutdown uncleanly, it's strange I load the module with mode=0 and mode=4 options, with miimon=100 and without miimon option... I don't know. I haven't a 803.2ad switch capable and the mode=4 fails and it's OK. The ethernet cards I'm using are a Realtek 8169 (From DLINK and KTI) .. I don't know what can be the problem ... You know ?? Yes. I had the same problem using Realtek 8169, too. But as a matter fact, I get out of this mess by using two other cards. So, you are not alone 8)! -- Franck Joncourt http://www.debian.org http://smhteam.info/wiki/ GPG server : pgpkeys.mit.edu Fingerprint : C10E D1D0 EF70 0A2A CACF 9A3C C490 534E 75C0 89FE signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 13:25, Greg Folkert wrote: On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 12:41 -0500, John Hasler wrote: Greg Folkert writes: Ratio of White flour to Wheat flour? What do you guess? 6-7 white flour train cars to 1 Wheat flour. We are talking 160,000 pounds each train car. Each car being a 100 ton car. Sounds like a plausible ratio. However, you're still talking carload quantities. The difference is not likely to make the white flour more than a few percent cheaper than the whole wheat (and the cost of the flour isn't that large a fraction of the price of the bread anyway). In actuality, white flour in those quantities is actually more expensive. There is more storage costs, Huh? Two issues: 1) White four is used in so many products that it's got to be shipped out very soon after it's ground. 2) Large warehouses are, per square meter, cheaper than smaller warehouses. processing costs[0], extra pre-cautions for contamination. Why extra? Do mice eat white flour more than whole wheat flour? Wheat has those as well, but fewer of them in less scale quantities. I though maybe you (or anyone) would have caught on to where I was going with this. Of course, there was a time when white bread was the fancy, expensive stuff... Which is exactly why the US (in general) has a preference for it. [0] == Think for instance, trying to get the evidence of a ground mouse or rat out of the white flour? Yes, it is gross to think about. There are FDA regulations about it. Same for hot-dogs and other ground meat. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDV1zS9HxQb37XmcRAh5cAKDiqQJKJHo7GXpv3DKQ8fWxvEZ6DgCeMuZU VRgY1DUT8ODqkxaykuVRYzM= =BFRC -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
Seth Goodman writes: As far as separating hardware from software issues, the suggestion of a live CD for hardware diagnostics is a good one. Unfortunately, when an unsophisticated user calls, you still have to spend time convincing them to run the hardware diagnostic CD first, and that costs you money. I think that would be cheaper than walking them through hardware tests using the possibly broken Microsoft Windows installation. Manufacturers complain that they don't want to ship machines with no OS because they couldn't support them with no known software for their support people to work with the user with. They also say they don't want to ship multiple OSs because they would have to train their support people on all of them. A test CD addresses both of these problems. If the test CD is based on a Linux live CD, it could also be a Linux install CD. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
xen, raid and initramfs failure
Hi guys, I've encountered a problem with my xen/raid setup.
My etch box has / on raid 1. When booting either 2.6.18-3 or -4 I get
an error when /scripts/local-top/mdadm runs: (paraphrasing)
Failure: failed to load Module 0 no such module
Failure: failed to load Module 1 no such module
Failure: failed to load Module 5 no such module
Waiting for root filesytem...
and that's it.
I dug into the script in question and here are the offending lines:
/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/mdadm
MD_DEVS=all
MD_MODULES='linear multipath raid0 raid1 raid456 raid5 raid6 raid10'
[ -s /conf/md.conf ] . /conf/md.conf
verbose log_begin_msg Loading MD modules
for module in ${MD_MODULES:-}; do
if modprobe --syslog $module; then
verbose log_success_msg loaded module ${module}.
else
log_failure_msg failed to load module ${module}.
fi
done
log_end_msg
looks like it should just interate through the list and load the
modules. I have confirmed that it works the way I expect in bash, but
it doesn't work properly when booting. for some reason the module
names seem to get replaced with just hte numbers 0 1 and 5.
I have hacked the script and rebuilt my initrds by commenting out the
above section and just putting in a bunch of modprobes and it
works. But clearly something wacky is going on here.
3 questions
1. Has anyone else seen this and have any insight?
2. How do I unpack my initrd to actually look at the script that is in
the initrd (maybe it gets changed somehow?) so I can check that out
directly.
3. is this a bug?
thanks
A
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Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
Greg Folkert writes: Which is exactly why the US (in general) has a preference for [white bread]. When my wife was living in Paris forty years ago and expressed an interest in dark bread her French roommates were appalled that she would want to eat peasant food. Think for instance, trying to get the evidence of a ground mouse or rat out of the white flour? Yes, it is gross to think about. There are FDA regulations about it. Same for hot-dogs and other ground meat. You have no hope of grossing me out. I'm a livestock farmer who has worked in the medical industry. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
Ron Johnson wrote on Friday, March 30, 2007 9:06 AM -0500: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 08:32, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am forwarding previous answers and adding that I do not want to pop these mails since I suscribed lots of ML, not only debian ones, and it is more convenient for me to readwrite from gmail than poping 3 times (work - home - laptop) thousands of mails. Complain to Google that their MUA is lacking an important feature. It's only important to the Debian mailing lists and a small number of others. It's not important to the majority of other mailing lists, and that's probably why Google and many others don't bother supporting that function. -- Seth Goodman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ron Johnson wrote: On 03/30/07 11:44, Joe Hart wrote: [snip] Needless to say, we are indeed in the midst of a flamewar, regardless This a flame war? whether one things that google has become a monopoly or not. But I see you're trying to pour gas on the fire. Am I? Because I don't like Dell? All I said was my opinion. I've seen several people here do the same, and I don't see any problem with it. Why don't I like Dell? Mainly because they trick people with their advertising. The cheap computers are exactly that. They do make good computers, but the prices of those computers are not less expensive than the competition, but they lure business in by offering inferior products at dirt cheap prices. There are other companies that do the same, and I like them just as little. I really don't see how most of this thread has anything to do with Debian, we've moved off into bread and economics lessons. Perhaps it isn't a flame war, it's just a discussion of varying viewpoints. A misuse of wording on my part in the former messages for which I apologize making. As for throwing flames on a fire, I just comment on the issues with my point of view, and I was right about this being a hot-topic. This is one of the most active at the moment. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGDWDTiXBCVWpc5J4RAgT0AKCRpG/Q9eHwVlwUVhk9072ryZyUxwCePRXG o9XNJXb/fWzyX15gh7vMNrs= =mvY/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: update to latest etch caused multiple problems - can't boot, no sound
On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 14:13:12 -0400, Greg Folkert wrote: On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 20:05 +0200, Florian Kulzer wrote: My guess is that some sound(-related) module from the old initrd does not work properly with the new kernel. I would not spend time trying to get sound to work until you can create a working initrd for your current kernel. It seems that the new initrd is missing the sd_mod module (and maybe others). You can make a backup of the old .bak initrd (just in case) and then try to generate a new initrd by running dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.18-4-686 Do you get any error messages? You can also try to use the other initrd creator, i.e. mkinitrd.yaird instead of the normal mkinitrd (or vice versa, depending on what you currently use). It turned out to be that he accidentally removed himself from the Audio Group. Did I react to a stray email from an old thread, or how do you know this? The only other message by John Lee in this month's archive seems to be a duplicate of the one to which I replied. -- Regards, Florian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: sponge burning!
On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 01:49:13PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 03/30/07 11:10, dave wrote: on Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 08:50:55AM -0500 Ron Johnson wrote: So you shoot the possibly-wounded Iraqi? If he's in the way, and others are shooting at you. I can already hear Arnt's squeal of righteous indignation starting to build. Wow. That gave me a really good laugh. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
Ron Johnson writes: We buy the cheapest *whole* wheat bread at the local store that doesn't taste like crumbly cardboard. See? You're picky. Cathy Consumer buys the cheapest white bread, full stop. Look at the ingredients list of white bread and whole wheat bread. Just did (though we don't have any cheap generic white bread: the closest I can come is some English muffin bread). I see no differences that would account for a significant difference in price, especially considering that ingredient costs are not going to come to a large fraction of the price. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
Jim Hyslop writes: It seems to me the way to go, if you're willing to risk not having a warranty, is to demand the refund from the manufacturers. If enough people demand it, then Dell, HP et al will start getting tired of paying twice - once to MS and once to the consumer. As far as I can tell they can comply with the terms of the contract by offering to allow you to return the machine for a full refund. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
Joe Hart wrote on Friday, March 30, 2007 11:53 AM -0500: All you are doing is rehashing an argument that has taken place over and over. You don't like the list, then unsubscribe. Simple. The OP could have presented his request differently, but I don't think a binary answer in the spirit of love it or leave it is particularly helpful. The method of handling Reply-To: in this mailing list is in the minority, and even if people believe it to be better, that puts the burden of explanation on us. Having the question come up over and over again, followed by a generally unsuccessful attempt to convince the questioner that everyone else does it wrong, is the price of doing things this way. -- Seth Goodman
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 13:51, Jim Hyslop wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: There's [...] no need for Symantec anti-virus products. I'm curious why you say that. I'm fairly new to Linux, but I understand it is more robust and secure than MS Windows. Still, it's not totally secure - nothing made by humans could be. So, do you mean that there's no need for Symantec because of the freely available alternatives, or because Linux just doesn't need anti-virus protection, or something else altogether? Linux systems directly open to the Intarweb are vulnerable to worms and rootkits. Typically, this means web/database/mail/dns servers running Apache, php, etc. Desktop systems should sit behind a firewall (either external or software). Having a friend run nmap against your system will show any open ports that you can either block (using the firewall) or disable (by killing the program that's listening to said port). Internet servers, of course, *need* to expose themselves to The Net (cue the reference to Sandra Bullock!). However, these techniques and practices should keep you safe: (1) keeping the server minimal, (2) keeping up with security patches, (3) running a rootkit scanner, (4) implementing memory randomization, (5) using stack guards like the NX bit and religiously scanning log files. (I'm sure that I'm missing something.) The only slight worry I have is Firefox/Iceweasel being vulnerable to malicious web sites, but the NoScript plugin and functional brain cells limits those worries. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDWRoS9HxQb37XmcRAgYjAKCj6E5ErX0VRP+/kjGaNaXuwsOzmwCfV0Im LsdlYntHifYLu2hW0lcskTk= =GdIi -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: post Header update probs with KDE apps
On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 07:34:28 +0100, andy wrote: Hiya The software update installed new headers, etc. today and instructed me to reboot in order to load up new modules, even though the header was the same as my existing header (I'm sorry this is not clearer - I'd just stumbled out of bed). When I did so I found that KSCD and KMail - which ordinarily both sit in the system tray in Gnome - didn't load into the system tray and KMail kept reporting an error starting pop3 processes. However, it would still successfully retrieve e-mails. Not sure what all this was so rebooted into the previous kernel image (which is the current situation) and all is fine. Ergo, it must be something with the new header files and image that was downloaded. On this basis, should I remove the update (and if so, which is the safest way to do so) or does anyone know of a way to use the new image/headers and work around these other issues? Thanks for any help May I suggest that you first get yourself a big cup of coffee? Then you should post the exact error messages and the versions of the two kernel images. It should be safe to remove the new kernel image if you have booted into the old one, but it would be better to figure out the cause of your problem so that we can file a bug report (and, hopefully, fix it). -- Regards, Florian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 02:21:34PM -0500, Seth Goodman wrote: The OP could have presented his request differently, but I don't think a binary answer in the spirit of love it or leave it is particularly helpful. The method of handling Reply-To: in this mailing list is in the minority, and even if people believe it to be better, that puts the burden of explanation on us. Having the question come up over and over again, followed by a generally unsuccessful attempt to convince the questioner that everyone else does it wrong, is the price of doing things this way. Actually, no, the burden is not on us. It is really quite simple. When you join a group, you adapt to *its* norms and conventions. If you don't like, then you are free to leave. Now, asking (politely) for an explanation is usually not a problem. However, starting off with this is broken, it needs to change is not usually welcomed unless you happen to carry a great deal of influence in the group. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 13:49, John Hasler wrote: Greg Folkert writes: Which is exactly why the US (in general) has a preference for [white bread]. When my wife was living in Paris forty years ago and expressed an interest in dark bread her French roommates were appalled that she would want to eat peasant food. Every time I see a Cajun Cuisine restaurant, I laugh at how stupid people are. Cajun food is (ok, *was*) about as poor-folks as you can get. Think for instance, trying to get the evidence of a ground mouse or rat out of the white flour? Yes, it is gross to think about. There are FDA regulations about it. Same for hot-dogs and other ground meat. You have no hope of grossing me out. I'm a livestock farmer who has worked in the medical industry. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDWemS9HxQb37XmcRAjTNAJ40jAPkUvdm2Cxeu8detN0QDKBNAACfQKPJ jBMM2Hl34PRo3lbtLpMlK1s= =IcWQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bread (was: Woohooo! Dell + Linux)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 John Hasler wrote: When my wife was living in Paris forty years ago and expressed an interest in dark bread her French roommates were appalled that she would want to eat peasant food. Interesting. A friend's father served in the German army during WWII. He (the father, not the friend :-) was captured and brought to Canada. The POWs were served white bread, which none of them had seen before. After some discussion, they decided that it must be cake, and so they figured they were being treated very well! :-) - -- Jim Hyslop Dreampossible: Better software. Simply. http://www.dreampossible.ca Consulting * Mentoring * Training in C/C++ * OOD * SW Development Practices * Version Management -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGDWgvLdDyDwyJw+MRAuvfAKDrfK1IUtnvDi9fQoN6E2vq15Zi+wCgidKp ekkGPL8xDhm3DHmSxur156I= =dj4z -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Seth Goodman wrote: Joe Hart wrote on Friday, March 30, 2007 11:53 AM -0500: All you are doing is rehashing an argument that has taken place over and over. You don't like the list, then unsubscribe. Simple. The OP could have presented his request differently, but I don't think a binary answer in the spirit of love it or leave it is particularly helpful. The method of handling Reply-To: in this mailing list is in the minority, and even if people believe it to be better, that puts the burden of explanation on us. Having the question come up over and over again, followed by a generally unsuccessful attempt to convince the questioner that everyone else does it wrong, is the price of doing things this way. I didn't say what I said on his first rant, it was his second. I pointed him to to rules of conduct and told him to abide them or to leave if he didn't like it. I stand by my post. I adapted my way of using e-mail for this list, he can do the same. Look back through the thread and you'll see that I offered a suggestion that he use a decent client, just like a few other people did. When he came back telling us what to do, well Do you think it's appropriate for someone to come on this list and bash Debian for not being what they want instead of asking Debian users how to achieve what they want? It's just as bad as people moving into a country and then telling the natives to modify their culture to suit them. It should be the other way around. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGDWhniXBCVWpc5J4RAhJEAKDBcHoPtgzY76/AHT4AiDYotLvnBQCfQyrI OHreNIFEXcHYgkCey111Aa8= =Nijl -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Debian Exim SPF howto?
Mihamina (R12y) Rakotomandimby wrote on Friday, March 30, 2007 2:21 AM -0500: Hi, Would you know any SPF+Debian+Exim tutorial? Exim has native support for SPF starting with version 4.52, but the Debian version has removed it. I believe that was based on a library that was written before the current experimental RFC4408 was submitted, so I don't know its current state of compliance. There are two reference implementations of SPF that are compliant with RFC4408, both on http://www.openspf.org/Implementations. One is Python, the other is PERL. I hear that patches for several MTA's based on these implementations are in the works. -- Seth Goodman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 13:59, John Hasler wrote: Ron Johnson writes: We buy the cheapest *whole* wheat bread at the local store that doesn't taste like crumbly cardboard. See? You're picky. Taste pickiness != snob pickiness. (Although snobs like to pretend it is.) Cathy Consumer buys the cheapest white bread, full stop. Not true unless you're on a very tight budget. Ask your wife whether she'd spend an extra 30 cents on bread from a brand she trusts. Look at the ingredients list of white bread and whole wheat bread. Just did (though we don't have any cheap generic white bread: the closest I can come is some English muffin bread). I see no differences that would account for a significant difference in price, especially considering that ingredient costs are not going to come to a large fraction of the price. Not being that far up the food industry, I can't make that determination. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDWkXS9HxQb37XmcRAv8VAKCkrXMN1fL9QFcDHNVPNDcUl/DRSwCfcqlk h9raZ/E3Wg8sUvfLjJF2rsQ= =a5Yt -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 14:11, Joe Hart wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: On 03/30/07 11:44, Joe Hart wrote: [snip] Needless to say, we are indeed in the midst of a flamewar, regardless This a flame war? whether one things that google has become a monopoly or not. But I see you're trying to pour gas on the fire. Am I? Because I don't like Dell? All I said was my opinion. I've seen several people here do the same, and I don't see any problem with it. Oh, sorry. I thought you were trying to steer the thread towards Man, Evil Google. Why don't I like Dell? Mainly because they trick people with their advertising. The cheap computers are exactly that. They do make good computers, but the prices of those computers are not less expensive than the competition, but they lure business in by offering inferior products at dirt cheap prices. There are other companies that do the same, and I like them just as little. Loss leaders are as old as commerce itself. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDWswS9HxQb37XmcRAm3CAJ0X2AZaomYvPaj74q4AelMlUyBn0gCglaea 2Zt/jeimGhzhB8f7bI9fNC0= =Uf9p -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Roberto � wrote: On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 02:21:34PM -0500, Seth Goodman wrote: The OP could have presented his request differently, but I don't think a binary answer in the spirit of love it or leave it is particularly helpful. The method of handling Reply-To: in this mailing list is in the minority, and even if people believe it to be better, that puts the burden of explanation on us. Having the question come up over and over again, followed by a generally unsuccessful attempt to convince the questioner that everyone else does it wrong, is the price of doing things this way. Actually, no, the burden is not on us. It is really quite simple. When you join a group, you adapt to *its* norms and conventions. If you don't like, then you are free to leave. Now, asking (politely) for an explanation is usually not a problem. However, starting off with this is broken, it needs to change is not usually welcomed unless you happen to carry a great deal of influence in the group. Regards, -Roberto Thank you Roberto. - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGDWuoiXBCVWpc5J4RAhcwAKCac+bQagQI3oKKsV1inLlaNsPErACgxvGQ xLDbUrwOBYJON/CPoGU6MHE= =OBrI -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 14:46 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 13:59, John Hasler wrote: Ron Johnson writes: We buy the cheapest *whole* wheat bread at the local store that doesn't taste like crumbly cardboard. See? You're picky. Taste pickiness != snob pickiness. (Although snobs like to pretend it is.) Cathy Consumer buys the cheapest white bread, full stop. Not true unless you're on a very tight budget. Ask your wife whether she'd spend an extra 30 cents on bread from a brand she trusts. We buy Bread at Aldi. $0.45 a loaf or $0.15 a loaf when trying to sell off before tomorrow's shipment. Seem pretty much everything is that way at Aldi. The white bread is very good for tasteless bread. Wheat is $0.50, $0.15 respectively, I like the wheat better than most branded kind. -- greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at the playfield. -- Thane Walkup -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 14:43, Joe Hart wrote: [snip] It's just as bad as people moving into a country and then telling the natives to modify their culture to suit them. It should be the other way around. Now that's an invitation to a 10 week OT thread-from-hell if I ever saw one... - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDW2NS9HxQb37XmcRAqVYAKCTh2JNQ7SkIPrrtsn3ZVbLUsSECQCePjK2 Z9ceqiHpkHU3xgSHNWDG8fU= =88D9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 14:09, Seth Goodman wrote: Ron Johnson wrote on Friday, March 30, 2007 9:06 AM -0500: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 08:32, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am forwarding previous answers and adding that I do not want to pop these mails since I suscribed lots of ML, not only debian ones, and it is more convenient for me to readwrite from gmail than poping 3 times (work - home - laptop) thousands of mails. Complain to Google that their MUA is lacking an important feature. It's only important to the Debian mailing lists and a small number of others. It's not important to the majority of other mailing lists, and that's probably why Google and many others don't bother supporting that function. It's like using MSFT. If all you've ever known is a buggy malware- filled OS, and you've been conditioned to grab your ankles, crying Thank you Mr Gates, may I have another! then you don't know any better. We, however, know that just because Joe User doesn't know any better, it doesn't mean that there is nothing better. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDW58S9HxQb37XmcRAhJ2AKChsd5BY6phUXlyBid3iIKqCPlOXwCfW7pL eusbprzbslq4P7SHtTHaeBQ= =2vQv -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ron Johnson wrote: On 03/30/07 14:43, Joe Hart wrote: [snip] It's just as bad as people moving into a country and then telling the natives to modify their culture to suit them. It should be the other way around. Now that's an invitation to a 10 week OT thread-from-hell if I ever saw one... It's just an analogy. I'll leave it at that. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGDXAuiXBCVWpc5J4RAlKNAKC4Rl/aqxXqeOgEgI8weXMlZdopKwCeNwBD ZW7nHTnGUPFsKJ/ZjHlf+ME= =BkX7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bread (was Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Greg Folkert wrote: On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 14:46 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 13:59, John Hasler wrote: Ron Johnson writes: We buy the cheapest *whole* wheat bread at the local store that doesn't taste like crumbly cardboard. See? You're picky. Taste pickiness != snob pickiness. (Although snobs like to pretend it is.) Cathy Consumer buys the cheapest white bread, full stop. Not true unless you're on a very tight budget. Ask your wife whether she'd spend an extra 30 cents on bread from a brand she trusts. We buy Bread at Aldi. $0.45 a loaf or $0.15 a loaf when trying to sell off before tomorrow's shipment. Seem pretty much everything is that way at Aldi. The white bread is very good for tasteless bread. Wheat is $0.50, $0.15 respectively, I like the wheat better than most branded kind. Which country is this? Here, Aldi doesn't ever sell bread that cheap. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGDXDliXBCVWpc5J4RAkCrAKCHHX/FOzDyql/2p2RHuznG6KEjjQCggV7l pIaERvhAGsbY37WOiWOVUus= =bJj3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
On 03/30/07 08:32, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am forwarding previous answers and adding that I do not want to pop these mails since I suscribed lots of ML, not only debian ones, and it is more convenient for me to readwrite from gmail than poping 3 times (work - home - laptop) thousands of mails. Ron Johnson wrote on Friday, March 30, 2007 9:06 AM -0500: Complain to Google that their MUA is lacking an important feature. On 30.03.07 14:09, Seth Goodman wrote: It's only important to the Debian mailing lists and a small number of others. It's not important to the majority of other mailing lists, and that's probably why Google and many others don't bother supporting that function. It's important nearly WHEREVER mailing lists are. Mailing list headers are defined in RFC2369 and are made to give users flexibility. Telling tkat someone does not need them is silly as person with bad sight telling (s)he doesn't need eye-glasses because (s)he doesn't know what it is. The whole fact that majority of other mailing lists and their users does not know about this does not mean it's useless. -- Matus UHLAR - fantomas, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; http://www.fantomas.sk/ Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address. Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu. Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
Ron Johnson writes: We buy the cheapest *whole* wheat bread at the local store that doesn't taste like crumbly cardboard. I wrote: See? You're picky. Ron Johnson writes: Taste pickiness != snob pickiness. (Although snobs like to pretend it is.) Didn't say it was. However, if the cheapest bread you are willing to eat went up 1% in price, how likely would you be to switch to a cheaper brand? That's elasticity. Not true unless you're on a very tight budget. As many are. Ask your wife whether she'd spend an extra 30 cents on bread from a brand she trusts. My wife buys the cheapest whole-wheat bread she can find (but she's exceptional). I prefer pumpernickel from Bohemian Ovens and french bread from LaBrea or The Creamery (can't afford either very often, though). -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
Greg Folkert writes: We buy Bread at Aldi. $0.45 a loaf or $0.15 a loaf when trying to sell off before tomorrow's shipment. Seem pretty much everything is that way at Aldi. My wife shops at Aldi's. It's an interesting company. Most retailers are terrified of WalMart but Aldi's deliberately opens stores across the street from them. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 15:14, John Hasler wrote: Ron Johnson writes: We buy the cheapest *whole* wheat bread at the local store that doesn't taste like crumbly cardboard. I wrote: See? You're picky. Ron Johnson writes: Taste pickiness != snob pickiness. (Although snobs like to pretend it is.) Didn't say it was. However, if the cheapest bread you are willing to eat went up 1% in price, how likely would you be to switch to a cheaper brand? That's elasticity. O% if it's still the cheapest brand that the store sells. Remember that driving to another store takes time and gasoline, so you only go to a 2nd store if it's *really* worth your while. Not true unless you're on a very tight budget. As many are. Ask your wife whether she'd spend an extra 30 cents on bread from a brand she trusts. My wife buys the cheapest whole-wheat bread she can find (but she's exceptional). My wife buys the 2nd cheapest, because the cheapest is dry and crumbly, and I don't like dry crumbly bread. I prefer pumpernickel from Bohemian Ovens and french bread from LaBrea or The Creamery (can't afford either very often, though). - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDXX7S9HxQb37XmcRAutDAKCqPeGHJ3n3qyeh1WWeMmcCiD+hlQCgvzA+ JXQ3uPXNL+C8t3Kuu/dIdjE= =Eu+P -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bread (was Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux)
On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 22:19 +0200, Joe Hart wrote: Greg Folkert wrote: On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 14:46 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 03/30/07 13:59, John Hasler wrote: Ron Johnson writes: We buy the cheapest *whole* wheat bread at the local store that doesn't taste like crumbly cardboard. See? You're picky. Taste pickiness != snob pickiness. (Although snobs like to pretend it is.) Cathy Consumer buys the cheapest white bread, full stop. Not true unless you're on a very tight budget. Ask your wife whether she'd spend an extra 30 cents on bread from a brand she trusts. We buy Bread at Aldi. $0.45 a loaf or $0.15 a loaf when trying to sell off before tomorrow's shipment. Seem pretty much everything is that way at Aldi. The white bread is very good for tasteless bread. Wheat is $0.50, $0.15 respectively, I like the wheat better than most branded kind. Which country is this? Here, Aldi doesn't ever sell bread that cheap. The good ole US of 'Murica. Specifically in Grand Rapids, MI. And to be honest, the only thing I don't like about Aldi bread, is that it isn't always the tradition loaf shape. Sometimes a bit deformed. I'll go out on a short limb and say that more than 95% of the stuff Aldi carries that has direct brand-name equivalents, is better tasting... or SUCH a great value, that the taste doesn't matter at that point. Most fall in the first category. Cereal, Milk, Bread, Ground Beef, Pork Chops, frozen burritos, Fish Sticks, Fired Potatoes, Potatoe Chips, Juice (cranberry, Apple, Sunny D knock off orange, etc) drinks, Soda pop, Vegetable oil(different kinds), shampoo, hand soap, Paper Towels, Tissue, Frozen seafood, fresh vegetables, beef Steak cuts, brats, sausage, yogurt, pre-made pudding, boxed stuffing, mac and cheese ($0.29 each box and significantly better tasting than Kraft equivalent) and many other products in similar shape and form. One product that falls into the second category: Manwich costs $1.99 in most stores(plus or minus $0.20) Aldi equivalent $0.29. It isn't quite as flavorful, but it still tastes a might good better in comparison to plain ground beef and really is only slight less tasty than Manwich I mean, since the price difference is so HUGE and the quality is mostly as good or even better, why Aldi is not deluged by people from open to close, I'll never know. -- greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at the playfield. -- Thane Walkup -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 15:09 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 03/30/07 14:09, Seth Goodman wrote: Ron Johnson wrote on Friday, March 30, 2007 9:06 AM -0500: On 03/30/07 08:32, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am forwarding previous answers and adding that I do not want to pop these mails since I suscribed lots of ML, not only debian ones, and it is more convenient for me to readwrite from gmail than poping 3 times (work - home - laptop) thousands of mails. Complain to Google that their MUA is lacking an important feature. It's only important to the Debian mailing lists and a small number of others. It's not important to the majority of other mailing lists, and that's probably why Google and many others don't bother supporting that function. It's like using MSFT. If all you've ever known is a buggy malware- filled OS, and you've been conditioned to grab your ankles, crying Thank you Mr Gates, may I have another! then you don't know any better. We, however, know that just because Joe User doesn't know any better, it doesn't mean that there is nothing better. Ayyaha, men, brother! \o/ \o/ \o/ I always akin it to: If all you ever have eaten all your life is dog-poo, how do you know any better? You get the drift? -- greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at the playfield. -- Thane Walkup -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] How much open is OpenSolaris?
Joerg Schilling wrote: From time to time I grab a diferent OS to install and try my hands at it. This time was OpenSolaris. The thing is, at some point in the install, OpenSolaris throws a license at my face that doesn't seem open at all. I can run the software, but I can't redistribute, copy, etc. I am no law expert, but that license doesn't seem really open or free. You did confuse terms. I don't know what you did install (most likely Solaris 10 or Solaris Express - the latter is the Solaris 11 betas) You did not install OpenSolaris, you simply can't as you cannot install Linux. You did rather install a Solaris distribution. If it shows something like: #uname -a SunOS opt 5.11 snv_xx i86pc i386 i86pc then the Solaris distribution you did install was OpenSolaris _based_. OpenSolaris is (in contrary to Linux) a complete OS like e.g. FreeBSD, it is however not a distribution that may be installed. You need to add a few things even to make a simple installable OS distribution. Sun Solaris is free but not as free as free beer as you need to pesonally aggree on the license (which is needed because Sun still needs to pay for some of the added software). Sun still gives you more freedom than e.g. Intel as Sun allows you to compile software you like to sell using the Sun Studio Compiler, Intel does not ;-) The Sun Studio compiler will be OpenSource in the near future, the Intel compiler most likely not. There are other OpenSolaris based distributions (e.g. SchilliX) that add different code in order to make an installable distribution. For this reason SchilliX is free software _and_ completely freely redistributable. Although you are not allowed to redistribute Sun Solaris, you still may do anything you like with Sun Solaris, you may even use it for commercial purposes. As far as I could tell, at least grub and (a javified version of) gnome are free, and OpenSolaris is using it. OpenSolaris uses an enhanced version of grub (Linux boots from the Solaris grub, but Solaris does not boot from the unmodified grub found on Linux distriibutions). OpenSolaris does not include gnome, Sun Solaris does. Sun is the biggest contributor for the gnome project, do you see a problem? are free, and OpenSolaris is using it. Maybe it uses other free software. So, doesn't that license conflicts with the gpl? The Debian distribution uses a lot of free software from Sun. In fact, 28% of the Debian distribution is from Sun (3x more than RedHat contributed and 5x more than IBM contributed). Do you see a licence conflict in Debian? Its not to flame Sun, I know the company has contributed a lot with the community, and many folks respects them. Just trying to get things clearer. If it helps, OpenSolaris is a really free project. Sun did follow my advise from November 2004 and we now have a OpenSolaris constitution as well as a OpenSolaris Government Board. OpenSolaris is not controlled by Sun but by the OGB. This makes OpenSolaris easier to deal with than the Linux Kernel that depends on a single person that controls what goes in and what not. The CDDL (used by OpenSolaris) is a license that is accepted as doubtlessly free by the OSS community. Jörg Jorg and others, It does help very much, thanks. I checked and what I have here is Sun Solaris, not OpenSolaris. So, my apologies to the project. I didn't see there was a difference between Solaris released freely (with some restrictions) by Sun and OpenSolaris. I thought they were the same thing. That said, my doubt is about Sun or any other company (doesn't really matter which one) releasing gpl'ed software with additional restrictions. Isn't that the 'viral' aspect of the gpl? That you cannot impose additional restrictions when redistributing the software? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bread (was Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux)
I mean, since the price difference is so HUGE and the quality is mostly as good or even better, why Aldi is not deluged by people from open to close, I'll never know. For the same reason people want SUVs. For the same reason women like gold and diamond. For the same reason people want brand clothes. I sometimes imagine how would I explain the human society to an alien ET: Why do people kill each other and go to wars over this diamond substance? What is it for? Me: Well, aside from its industrial applications, people want it for the precise reason that it is hard to get. If its abundance increased, people would cease using it. ET: WTF!?
Re: a dumb query? pls humor me
On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 10:02:49AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 29 Mar, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: On Thu, Mar 29, 2007 at 03:36:58PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He's probably referring to the executive order signed on 7 Feb, 2002. In it, W claims the authority to set aside the Geneva conventions for Taliban and al-Quaeda prisoners, thereby allowing them to be tortured and/or mistreated in other ways. The legal justification for this order is somewhat dubious. Interesting. The only executive order signed on 7 Feb 2002 is this one: Executive Order: Amendment to Executive Order 13227, President's Commission on Excellence in Special Education Regards, -Roberto The order in question is this: http://www.kron.com/global/story.asp?s=1962000ClientType=Printable It is signed by President Bush on February 7, 2002. Although described in the media as an executive order, it doesn't appear to be listed as one, even though it was signed by the president. Interesting. sarcasmIs this where he advocates torture?/sarcasm: Of course, our values as a nation, values that we share with many nations in the world, call for us to treat detainees humanely, including those who are not legally entitled to such treatment. Our nation has been and will continue to be a strong supporter of Geneva and its principles. As a matter of policy, the United States Armed Forces shall continue to treat detainees humanely and, to the extent appropriate and consistent with military necessity, in a manner consistent with the principles of Geneva. So, it is the stated policy of the US gonvernment, that even though the Taliban and al-Qaeda detainees are *not legally entitled* to protection under the GCs, they still be *accorded the protection*! It seems like the GCs don't apply quote was taken out of context quite badly. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 02:40:22PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: Every time I see a Cajun Cuisine restaurant, I laugh at how stupid people are. Cajun food is (ok, *was*) about as poor-folks as you can get. The same can be said of barbacoa (originally a Mexican peasant food), paella (originally a Spanish peasant food), and another Brazilian food a friend told me about (which name escapes me at the moment). Of course, potatoes were long seen as a peasant food until Louis (IIRC, though I forget which Louis it was) planted a royal garden with potatoes and set guards around it. Then it became high class food staple. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bread
Joe Hart writes: Which country is this? Here, Aldi doesn't ever sell bread that cheap. I'm in the US. I suspect that we are talking about a different company. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bread (was Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux)
On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 05:52:14PM -0300, Jorge Peixoto de Morais Neto wrote: ET: Why do people kill each other and go to wars over this diamond substance? What is it for? Me: Well, aside from its industrial applications, people want it for the precise reason that it is hard to get. If its abundance increased, people ^ would cease using it. ET: WTF!? Diamond is *perceived* to be hard to get. In fact, diamond is a very abundant stone. It is so abundant that if DeBeers did not have a stranglehold on the world's diamond production, it would probably be considered only semi-precious. There was an interesting article in IEEE Spectrum (or maybe another IEEE magazine, though not a journal or scholarly pub) a couple of years ago about two different guys developing different methods for lab production of diamonds. In both cases the diamonds were *indistinguishable* from natural diamonds. This scared the crap out of DeBeers. One was pressured to sell out to DeBeers. The other had more than one attempt on his life. (Take a guess at who was probably behind that?) Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 15:41:31 -0500 Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 15:14, John Hasler wrote: Ron Johnson writes: We buy the cheapest *whole* wheat bread at the local store that doesn't taste like crumbly cardboard. I wrote: See? You're picky. Ron Johnson writes: Taste pickiness != snob pickiness. (Although snobs like to pretend it is.) Didn't say it was. However, if the cheapest bread you are willing to eat went up 1% in price, how likely would you be to switch to a cheaper brand? That's elasticity. O% if it's still the cheapest brand that the store sells. Remember that driving to another store takes time and gasoline, so you only go to a 2nd store if it's *really* worth your while. Not true unless you're on a very tight budget. As many are. Ask your wife whether she'd spend an extra 30 cents on bread from a brand she trusts. My wife buys the cheapest whole-wheat bread she can find (but she's exceptional). My wife buys the 2nd cheapest, because the cheapest is dry and crumbly, and I don't like dry crumbly bread. I prefer pumpernickel from Bohemian Ovens and french bread from LaBrea or The Creamery (can't afford either very often, though). Butting in here and I've only seen the last few posts but I'm on home ground as far as bread is concerned, more so than Debian (what happened to THAT thread?) I've been making my own bread for the last 15 years and, despite what you may think, it is not time consuming, it is easy and you do not need a breadmaking machine. The big advantage is that you know exactly what goes into the bread. Most of the bread you buy in shops has an excess of fat and sugar as these give it a longer shelf life. Making it yourself you can add extras as you feel like pumpkin seeds, sun-dried tomatoes, cheese and onion, or mix the amount of white and wholemeal flour. It really is no trouble to come home from work and make a loaf for the next day. Total time actually expending energy about 30 minutes; the rest waiting for the dough to rise. Also it can be very therapeutic kneading dough and imagining you are knocking the hell out of your boss or whoever. Regards, John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bread (was Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 15:52, Jorge Peixoto de Morais Neto wrote: I mean, since the price difference is so HUGE and the quality is mostly as good or even better, why Aldi is not deluged by people from open to close, I'll never know. For the same reason people want SUVs. For the same reason women like gold and diamond. For the same reason people want brand clothes. I sometimes imagine how would I explain the human society to an alien ET: Why do people kill each other and go to wars over this diamond substance? What is it for? Me: Well, aside from its industrial applications, people want it for the precise reason that it is hard to get. If its abundance increased, people would cease using it. And sparkly. Very, very sparkly. Analogous is gold. Very very shiny. Which is why women like gold more than they like platinum. ET: WTF!? - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDX9KS9HxQb37XmcRAgFOAKDAIW24SMGu8tBGzUWhMOjLopul7gCdGWo7 kuX/u5vrIfMdFtM2g09q92A= =EEFk -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bread (was Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux)
On Friday 30 March 2007 22:43, Greg Folkert wrote: On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 22:19 +0200, Joe Hart wrote: Greg Folkert wrote: On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 14:46 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: On 03/30/07 13:59, John Hasler wrote: Ron Johnson writes: We buy the cheapest *whole* wheat bread at the local store that doesn't taste like crumbly cardboard. See? You're picky. Taste pickiness != snob pickiness. (Although snobs like to pretend it is.) Cathy Consumer buys the cheapest white bread, full stop. Not true unless you're on a very tight budget. Ask your wife whether she'd spend an extra 30 cents on bread from a brand she trusts. We buy Bread at Aldi. $0.45 a loaf or $0.15 a loaf when trying to sell off before tomorrow's shipment. Seem pretty much everything is that way at Aldi. The white bread is very good for tasteless bread. Wheat is $0.50, $0.15 respectively, I like the wheat better than most branded kind. Which country is this? Here, Aldi doesn't ever sell bread that cheap. The good ole US of 'Murica. Specifically in Grand Rapids, MI. And to be honest, the only thing I don't like about Aldi bread, is that it isn't always the tradition loaf shape. Sometimes a bit deformed. I'll go out on a short limb and say that more than 95% of the stuff Aldi carries that has direct brand-name equivalents, is better tasting... or SUCH a great value, that the taste doesn't matter at that point. Most fall in the first category. Cereal, Milk, Bread, Ground Beef, Pork Chops, frozen burritos, Fish Sticks, Fired Potatoes, Potatoe Chips, Juice (cranberry, Apple, Sunny D knock off orange, etc) drinks, Soda pop, Vegetable oil(different kinds), shampoo, hand soap, Paper Towels, Tissue, Frozen seafood, fresh vegetables, beef Steak cuts, brats, sausage, yogurt, pre-made pudding, boxed stuffing, mac and cheese ($0.29 each box and significantly better tasting than Kraft equivalent) and many other products in similar shape and form. One product that falls into the second category: Manwich costs $1.99 in most stores(plus or minus $0.20) Aldi equivalent $0.29. It isn't quite as flavorful, but it still tastes a might good better in comparison to plain ground beef and really is only slight less tasty than Manwich I mean, since the price difference is so HUGE and the quality is mostly as good or even better, why Aldi is not deluged by people from open to close, I'll never know. -- greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Recently bought a webcam from Aldi. Reduced from 25 to 5€. It works fine using the ov511 driver. They had some more there at the same price, so I bought 2 more. Nothing like having a couple of spares. And the breads ok too. You don't find the usual brand names, but I have no problem with the stuff they provide. It tastes ok, and all I'm trying to do is stay alive. Nigel.
RE: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote on Friday, March 30, 2007 3:31 PM -0500: The whole fact that majority of other mailing lists and their users does not know about this does not mean it's useless. You mean it _could_ be useful if most others went along, which they haven't. There are a lot of things about normal SMTP practice that violate recent RFC's and I personally don't like. For something that doesn't affect mail transport, but is a matter of how MUA's interpret trace headers, most people feel they have bigger fish to fry. To fix this problem, you need to convince not only the makers of numerous MTA's to change, but the maintainers of mailing list packages and a large number of mailing list administrators. That's a large enough hurdle that I think it safe to say the horse has left the barn on this one a long time ago. Continuing to insist that things _should_ have been different, long past the point where that is feasible, only makes us look foolish. In that, we have been successful. -- Seth Goodman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 15:46, Greg Folkert wrote: On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 15:09 -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: [snip] It's like using MSFT. If all you've ever known is a buggy malware- filled OS, and you've been conditioned to grab your ankles, crying Thank you Mr Gates, may I have another! then you don't know any better. We, however, know that just because Joe User doesn't know any better, it doesn't mean that there is nothing better. Ayyaha, men, brother! \o/ \o/ \o/ I always akin it to: If all you ever have eaten all your life is dog-poo, how do you know any better? You get the drift? Or drunk (Anheuser-Busch) Budweiser. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDYIsS9HxQb37XmcRAqoaAJ92RjMmm0J0cd/eX+C+ocTk6/6jHwCggJvS +3sVHV4NTUTF2GrnvguerJw= =ILXX -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bread
Greg Folkert writes: I'll go out on a short limb and say that more than 95% of the stuff Aldi carries that has direct brand-name equivalents, is better tasting... We've found quite a few things at Aldi's that are not of acceptable quality. Canned mushroom soup comes to mind. If we could afford it we'd shop only at Marketplace, but that isn't going to happen. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 16:33, Seth Goodman wrote: Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote on Friday, March 30, 2007 3:31 PM -0500: The whole fact that majority of other mailing lists and their users does not know about this does not mean it's useless. You mean it _could_ be useful if most others went along, which they haven't. There are a lot of things about normal SMTP practice that violate recent RFC's and I personally don't like. For something that doesn't affect mail transport, but is a matter of how MUA's interpret trace headers, most people feel they have bigger fish to fry. To fix this problem, you need to convince not only the makers of numerous MTA's to change, but the maintainers of mailing list packages and a large number of mailing list administrators. That's a large enough hurdle that I think it safe to say the horse has left the barn on this one a long time ago. Continuing to insist that things _should_ have been different, long past the point where that is feasible, only makes us look foolish. In that, we have been successful. By very similar reasoning, we should all dump Linux and go with the OS that has 95% usage. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDYQYS9HxQb37XmcRAp3oAKCVLT+m8wBiu7xp9NXDFh/j1R6mMACfTmbr zcgJnzUnhNW7IPKImbrYApI= =Z1jV -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] bread prices and economics
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 30 March 2007 14:05, Celejar [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: The bottom line is that if the cost is the same or lower (the assumption of the OP, because less processing is done), then given perfect competition, the price should be, too. Except that perfect competition does not exist. It is one of the primary flaws of Keynesian economics. Platonic Competition, By George Reisman http://www.mises.org/story/1988 The macroeconomic result was called perfect competition... http://www.mises.org/journals/qjae/pdf/qjae7_4_1.pdf The Misesian Case against Keynes http://www.mises.org/story/2492 - -- September 11th, 2001 The proudest day for gun control and central planning advocates in American history -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iQEUAwUBRg2Bhy9Y35yItIgBAQJ1jAf4/EdIJpcrcNrugXgp3vk4wqFHCDGDEMSz L1R8XS4WVh4mow+Dnsb5TuVPVKiv69+03R4UhVcm+GpYLb+5rlUH/dH0HSmOele+ +PWG+yVW7JCWvVCaDgzJYAT3eskfWgBVVeDtQ1j14faUjhiCVnr7YfdUZKoF1TrK ALPZKXy4nnkgOQWBxGW9N8Lzku68a99havxhcn5GMvUkffypf/1gfj3hFXgBSTiv ONVD6yJhC5WbzPsF0+94sjSaZyNQFvpde7FZ/jbtcysDLwq+ZATdbjA78or6vtJd 8OAi0eaPPx5eMPSVNzI88NzOC5fdqpS+9xA3a7jPG5HC/IDSBZIJ =Xujv -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bread (was Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux)
I'll go out on a short limb and say that more than 95% of the stuff Aldi carries that has direct brand-name equivalents, is better tasting... This reminds me of restaurants. I like the small, family food ones 10 times better than the expensive ones. I prefer tasty food over fancy food that tastes like crap. This also reminds me of when I tried to convince my friend that there are good digital cameras outside Sony. Nothing could change his mind. Not the fact that there are a lot of famous digital camera brands besides Sony. Not my observations that Sony does not even have a good quality record, such as keeping their products from exploding. Not the fact that everithing in a Sony produt is non-standard* and the Sony parts cost you an arm and a leg. . He (and many other friends of mine) would only accept Sony. * Once I bought a pair of rechargeable batteries from a friend of mine. They wouldn't work. At first I thought it was the recharger (which was low quality), and I tried again. Then with a better recharger. I eventually gave up and put the batteries away. One year later, I looked at the batteries and realized why they did not work. They were Sony batteries. Of course they couldn't make a standard battery and actually compete on price/quality. So the battery voltage was 1.2v, even though the battery looked exactly like a standard AA battery. W. T. F. -- Software is like sex: it is better when it is free.
RE: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
Ron Johnson wrote on Friday, March 30, 2007 4:42 PM -0500: On 03/30/07 16:33, Seth Goodman wrote: That's a large enough hurdle that I think it safe to say the horse has left the barn on this one a long time ago. Continuing to insist that things _should_ have been different, long past the point where that is feasible, only makes us look foolish. In that, we have been successful. By very similar reasoning, we should all dump Linux and go with the OS that has 95% usage. Not at all. Unix predated Windows and has had a large following all along. This is different from the preferred usage of mailing list trace headers, which only a small number of implementations ever took seriously. -- Seth Goodman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bread
On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 15:51 -0500, John Hasler wrote: Joe Hart writes: Which country is this? Here, Aldi doesn't ever sell bread that cheap. I'm in the US. I suspect that we are talking about a different company. Aldi is from Northern Europe, which country exactly escapes me at the moment. It's the same company I believe. Their target markets may be different here in the US than in Europe, but it is the same company AFAIK. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bread (was Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux)
On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 06:49:35PM -0300, Jorge Peixoto de Morais Neto wrote: quality), and I tried again. Then with a better recharger. I eventually gave up and put the batteries away. One year later, I looked at the batteries and realized why they did not work. They were Sony batteries. Of course they couldn't make a standard battery and actually compete on price/quality. So the battery voltage was 1.2v, even though the battery looked exactly like a standard AA battery. W. T. F. All* rechargable AA batteries are 1.2v whilst normal AA batteries are 1.5v. Also see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechargeable_battery -- To the extent that we overreact, we proffer the terrorists the greatest tribute. - High Court Judge Michael Kirby -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 01:13:44AM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote: On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 02:38:04PM +1000, CaT wrote: On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 12:19:39AM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote: The sensible way to handle hardware support independent of any installed software would be to ship each pc with a bootable CD with custom Dell test software. Linux would make a convenient base for such a CD. This is something I have mentioned in other places: bios updates, hardware testing and other issues. You need a linux-based or similar test cd so that if have a hardware issue or need a bios update that the tech support folks stop saying 'but you need to use windows for us to diagnose the problem before we can authorizes this' or similar. FWIW, the diagnostics, etc CD that Dell ships with servers is Linux based. As I mentioned, I found a cd for servers for management but nothing about diagnostics. Do you have a url or more info so that I google better? No, sorry. I've just got the actual CDs that I've poked around. -- To the extent that we overreact, we proffer the terrorists the greatest tribute. - High Court Judge Michael Kirby -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 01:11:06AM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote: tech support folks stop saying 'but you need to use windows for us to diagnose the problem before we can authorizes this' or similar. FWIW, the diagnostics, etc CD that Dell ships with servers is Linux based. I found this: http://linux.dell.com/monitoring.shtml which points to info about the include omsa -- open manage server administrator for linux-- which is on a cd included with a server. and further down it mentions about a user made centos live cd with this omsa. This is great new for server customers. although what do laptop users do when dell level 1 support asks about using windows to help them with your problems. That day is when 'desktop linux' will arrive. If I were them? 'Please insert the diagnostics CD that came with your laptop/computer.' and take it from there. Unless you get software support with your pc/laptop and that's something they seem to offer seperately. -- To the extent that we overreact, we proffer the terrorists the greatest tribute. - High Court Judge Michael Kirby -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sarge + dist-upgrade = ?
Fernando Cacciola wrote: Hi All I just installed Debian Sarge from a 1-year old netinst CD on a HP Pavillion 1125LA notebook. Then I run apt-get dist-upgrade. What do I have now then? Still Sarge? 3.0, 3.1? The third field in /etc/apt/sources.list will tell you which distribution you are running. If you want to upgrade from Sarge to Etch, please read the release notes, (print it out) and then follow the instructions there. http://www.debian.org/releases/testing/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html hth raju -- Kamaraju S Kusumanchi http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/ http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
Paul Walsh wrote: Passed to me by a colleague: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6506027.stm *grin* That is awesome news! Thanks for sharing it. Now I just hope that the Dell systems come pre-installed with Debian! raju -- Kamaraju S Kusumanchi http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/ http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bread (was Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux)
All* rechargable AA batteries are 1.2v whilst normal AA batteries are 1.5v. How embarrassing. I guess the battery was just broken then. There are a lot of other arguments against Sony still. -- Software is like sex: it is better when it is free.
Re: Bread
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 16:55, Andrew J. Barr wrote: On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 15:51 -0500, John Hasler wrote: Joe Hart writes: Which country is this? Here, Aldi doesn't ever sell bread that cheap. I'm in the US. I suspect that we are talking about a different company. Aldi is from Northern Europe, which country exactly escapes me at the moment. It's the same company I believe. Their target markets may be different here in the US than in Europe, but it is the same company AFAIK. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldi There are two: Aldi Nord and Aldi Sud. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDZOVS9HxQb37XmcRAuTvAKDlvYE0k+9YtleDH7Squcoc3qfUjwCgx2QS l+1hbs6OYZQG3siaTZ2NlLo= =G9Md -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 16:50, Seth Goodman wrote: Ron Johnson wrote on Friday, March 30, 2007 4:42 PM -0500: On 03/30/07 16:33, Seth Goodman wrote: That's a large enough hurdle that I think it safe to say the horse has left the barn on this one a long time ago. Continuing to insist that things _should_ have been different, long past the point where that is feasible, only makes us look foolish. In that, we have been successful. By very similar reasoning, we should all dump Linux and go with the OS that has 95% usage. Not at all. Unix predated Windows and has had a large following all along. This is different from the preferred usage of mailing list trace headers, which only a small number of implementations ever took seriously. And the counter argument would be that not-munging-Reply-To has always been popular amongst people who know what they are doing. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDZQdS9HxQb37XmcRAslyAJ9EGTLGWZT72wgsjDycx1/zIQLFZgCePpn+ urpQsQvPQKc2ReYjtUnl5Us= =SyQg -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
Okay guys, so, just to calm down, I never told you what to do. I just faced twice the problem of answering to the wrong addressee, and I saw that it happens sometimes to others. I listened to your proposal of using a MUA, then argued that it was not suiting my needs. (I don't think just about me, of course I really know you don't care about my personal issues, but I am talking about general ones in order to adapt to the most needs). As I said in the beginning, I doubt if I were the first guy to ask you for that. Celejar gave me a link that may explain why reply-to usage is bad, and I -verry sorry for that- gave my point of view, but please note that I did not tell you what you have to do. Thanks for your attention. Gal'
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
CaT writes: FWIW, the diagnostics, etc CD that Dell ships with servers is Linux based. ... I've just got the actual CDs that I've poked around. Does it include source? If not did you receive a written offer to provide it? -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
Ron Johnson wrote on Friday, March 30, 2007 5:50 PM -0500: And the counter argument would be that not-munging-Reply-To has always been popular amongst people who know what they are doing. Most people who know what they're doing don't insist that the rest of the world changes its behavior on something that is not important. Besides, you rejected popularity as an argument. -- Seth Goodman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
Jim Hyslop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm curious why you say that. I'm fairly new to Linux, but I understand it is more robust and secure than MS Windows. Still, it's definitely ;) not totally secure - nothing made by humans could be. So, do you mean unfortunately :( that there's no need for Symantec because of the freely available alternatives, or because Linux just doesn't need anti-virus protection, or something else altogether? Windows viruses just don't work under Linux, the same as Windows programs don't work under Linux. There are very few Linux viruses (mostly lab experiments) and they are unlikely to spread due to the better design of Linux. There are threats to Linux computers (as Ron explained in more detail), but Symantec AFAIK does not provide software to deal with them. Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 04:01:41AM EST, Max Hyre wrote: Dear Debianistas: John Hasler wrote: The manufacturer may be paying Microsoft a fixed fee for every machine he ships rather than for every copy of Microsoft Windows he ships. This makes sense when nearly every machine has Microsoft Windows installed. Precisely. But the sense is inverted. Nearly every machine has a copy of MS Windows installed because the manufacturer pays a fixed fee for every machine shipped. When this whole thing started to snowball (as in when MS had gotten a solid foothold by selling MS-DOS for lots less than the P-system or CP/M-86) MS made an offer no one in her right mind could refuse. Their per-hardware-unit-sold license was so much cheaper than the per-OS-copy-sold license that it made no sense to do anything else. Thus, any system sent out already had the cost of MS-DOS (later MS Windows) built into its price. Hence, remarks about the ``Microsoft Tax''. without representation .. So when's our Boston Tea Party? Thanks, cga -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ML ISSUE] reply-to field ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 18:05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay guys, so, just to calm down, I never told you what to do. I just faced twice the problem of answering to the wrong addressee, and I saw that it happens sometimes to others. I listened to your proposal of using a MUA, then argued that it was not suiting my needs. (I don't think just about me, of course I really know you don't care about my personal issues, but I am talking about general ones in order to adapt to the most needs). As I said in the beginning, I doubt if I were the first guy to ask you for that. Celejar gave me a link that may explain why reply-to usage is bad, and I -verry sorry for that- gave my point of view, but please note that I did not tell you what you have to do. Thanks for your attention. Noobie stomps in, uses HTML mail (which you are *still* doing, and still breaking the Code Of Conduct) and tells us not to follow an internet standard, because no one else does it. That's not appreciated. - -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Hit him with a fish, and he goes away for good! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGDaiQS9HxQb37XmcRAt3BAKCS85+zl9OAUvJPNEpq/5/IyV5DrQCg0Rz7 rGzA+zEErSPCoUoWblUDE3U= =UgJs -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 04:00:48PM EST, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 02:40:22PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote: Every time I see a Cajun Cuisine restaurant, I laugh at how stupid people are. Cajun food is (ok, *was*) about as poor-folks as you can get. Tells you how low we have sunk doesn't it .. ? The same can be said of barbacoa (originally a Mexican peasant food), paella (originally a Spanish peasant food), and another Brazilian food a friend told me about (which name escapes me at the moment). That would be the feijoada Of course, potatoes were long seen as a peasant food until Louis (IIRC, though I forget which Louis it was) planted a royal garden with potatoes and set guards around it. Then it became high class food staple. Probably Louis XV or possibly .. Louis XVI .. ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine-Augustin_Parmentier Enjoy the hash (hachis) .. :-) Thanks, cga
Re: I do consider Ubuntu to be Debian , Ian Murdock
anoop aryal wrote: On Thursday 29 March 2007 14:55, Steve Lamb wrote: anoop aryal wrote: i'll take etch when it's good and ready and not a day before. i'd rather have a working OS, free of bugs, late than a half baked, bug-ridden POS, on time. Then you'll be waiting forever because even Debian does not ship stable releases free of bugs. touche. but my main argument is that i value debian prioratizing bug-squashing over meeting release dates. and that if debian is guilty of being cavalier about missing release dates, others are guilty of being cavalier about releasing bug-riddled software (knowingly). i switched from windows to redhat (around '96), then from redhat to fedora, then from fedora to debian. now that i'm here, i don't see myself switching to anything else. and that's *because* debian hasn't given in to the temptation of always having the latest and the greatest software and *because* when the new stable is out, i know there'll be minimum surprises. and that's because debian hasn't given in to meeting artificial release dates. as a software dev who does sysadmin only to setup an environment to run the software we develop, i really value the slow/steady releases because otherwise, we'll be on a hamster wheel of upgrades and have to constantly fix our apps to work with the newer system the whole time and not have the time to develop anything new. debian gives us a nice stable target to hit. i do use testing/unstable on my personal machines where i don't mind the occasional breakage - i see that as a chance to send in the occasional bug report to help out. and as a way to prepare for what may be coming down the pipe in the next release. but debian - the way it is - is exactly why i'm using it on servers. so, yeah, given everything else stays the same, i'd take a firmer release date. but not at the expense of getting software that has critical bugs that could be fixed if the release date was moved. after all, if i was really itching for the newer software, all i'd have to do is 'sed -i s/sarge/etch/g /etc/apt/sources.list'. not like debian is stopping me from getting the software before it's magical release date. just wanted to make sure that the powers that be also hear from people who appriciate the way things are done in debian. I agree. I would much rather have Debian released when it is ready to be released, than released when an arbitrary time line has passed. I'll take stability and quality over latest and greatest every time in a server OS. I run Sid on my laptop and desktop, but not on any servers I install. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
Jim Hyslop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 John Hasler wrote: Linux will not be commonplace on [desk|lap]tops until major hardware vendors ship it (not that I care all that much). attacks against Linux. Linux may be a much more robust and secure system than Windows, but there are probably still security holes lurking that nobody (at least, no honest person) has yet discovered and patched. This is Microsoft FUD. Think about Apache, (by far) the most widely used web server, but its resistance to attacks has not decreased. In fact, having a large userbase can help find the problems faster. The willingness to fix them and actually applying the patch (which is in the hands of the users) is what really counts. Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
Zbigniew Wiech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Dell's price) Doesn't basic economics dictate that given competition, the equilibrium price is determined by both supply and demand? Even if I'm willing to pay a great deal, if the cost to produce the item is low, competition should drive down the price. Are you implying that the market is a monopoly or oligarchy ? Definitely yes. Show me a worker, a farmer, a biology teacher, a bank employee etc willing to buy MS Windows separately and install it themselves on their new desktop. Let's skip some level of piracy here. Even worse. In Romania most (if not all) home computers are bought without Windows preinstalled (at least not officially), but they still end up with Windows on them. The level of piracy is somewhere around 90%. An interesting trend is that some small businesses who can't afford to run pirated software, but also don't want/can't afford to pay for MS Office are using OpenOffice. Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That is awesome news! Thanks for sharing it. Now I just hope that the Dell systems come pre-installed with Debian! As much as I like Debian, but wouldn't Ubuntu make a better option? Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Looking for password manager
On Sat, Mar 24, 2007 at 11:56:18AM -0500, Dennis G. Wicks wrote: Greetings; I am in the process of moving from Win 2k to Linux. On Win I have a great little program named RoboForm that manages my passwords for IE and FireFox and also fills in forms with my personal information when needed. Does anyone know of a similar program for Linux? It will be nearly like losing a good friend not having RoboForm! Never having used 'doze, I don't know RoboForm. However, both IceDove and Konquorer will do this: fill out a form once, it will ask if you want to save the information for the next time it sees the form. Ditto passwords. Firefox is now IceWeasel (Mozilla is IceDove)... YMMV Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] How much open is OpenSolaris?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joerg Schilling) wrote: The CDDL (used by OpenSolaris) is a license that is accepted as doubtlessly free by the OSS community. ... but GPL incompatible: From http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/index_html Common Development and Distribution License (CDDL) This is a free software license which is not a strong copyleft; it has some complex restrictions that make it incompatible with the GNU GPL. It requires that all attribution notices be maintained, while the GPL only requires certain types of notices. Also, it terminates in retaliation for certain aggressive uses of patents. So, a module covered by the GPL and a module covered by the CDDL cannot legally be linked together. We urge you not to use the CDDL for this reason. Also unfortunate in the CDDL is its use of the term intellectual property. Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein)
Re: deleting content of /tmp
On Sat, Mar 24, 2007 at 06:40:01PM +, andy wrote: Can someone advise me on the pros and cons of deleting the contents of /tmp/ as part of general security conscious non-paranoia. I was thinking that it would be an okay thing to do periodically (or at logout, etc.) using a overwriting/shredding program. But, before I committed myself, decided it was prudent to ask. Here's how I do it: 1. /tmp is on tmpfs so it automatically is gone on reboot. Yes the boot-up init-script also cleans out /tmp 2. swap (which then contains /tmp) is encrypted, on LVM, on raid1, and is large (twice my 1 GB ram) since disk space is cheap. 3. I use the libpam-tmpdir so that each user has their own tmp directory under /tmp/user 4. Each user has a symlink from /home/$USER/tmp to their actual temp dir, so that they can easily browse to their tmpdir. Also helpfull for some apps where you get a dialog to choose a cache directory and you can't directly enter a path but must browse to it. 5. TMP and TMPDIR are both set. I think this takes care of the users' tmp files. If they want to garbage-collect from their own $TMPDIR, let them. For non-user stuff, I just trust the debian team to make apps/packages that take care of this on their own. Do you find any specific files or file types in /tmp that worry you? YMMV. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
``Microsoft Tax''. without representation .. So when's our Boston Tea Party? It's in progress courtesy of Richard Stallman. Free Software Foundation (FSF) *Boston Mass* :-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: update to latest etch caused multiple problems - can't boot, no sound
Thanks for your help, Florian. Actually the system dropped me to the ash because it cannot mount root. I tried it for quite a while before I used the old initrd.img-2.6.18-4-686.bak and I'm pretty sure all the modules are still there (I did modprobe sd_mod). The linux-image is not updated this time and the old initrd is using exactly the same kernel. After my last post I checked the aptitude log and found out that the only thing related to the boot procedure that got updated this time is udev 0.105-3 - 0.105-4 Since my boot and sound problems are all related to udev, I rolled back to udev 0.105-3. Now everything is back to normal. :-) -- John On Mar 31, 2:10 am, Florian Kulzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 02:28:20 +0800, John Lee wrote: My guess is that some sound(-related) module from the old initrd does not work properly with the new kernel. I would not spend time trying to get sound to work until you can create a working initrd for your current kernel. It seems that the new initrd is missing the sd_mod module (and maybe others). You can make a backup of the old .bak initrd (just in case) and then try to generate a new initrd by running dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.18-4-686 Do you get any error messages? You can also try to use the other initrd creator, i.e. mkinitrd.yaird instead of the normal mkinitrd (or vice versa, depending on what you currently use). -- Regards, Florian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 09:51:16AM EST, Celejar wrote: On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 08:57:02 -0500 Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 03/30/07 08:23, Celejar wrote: On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:45:13 -0500 John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul Walsh writes: [snip] Then again, why is it that wholemeal bread with nowt taken out (thus presumably requiring less in the production process) costs more than white bread? Because you are willing to pay more for it. -- John Hasler Doesn't basic economics dictate that given competition, the equilibrium price is determined by both supply and demand? Even if I'm willing to pay a great deal, if the cost to produce the item is low, competition should drive down the price. Are you implying that the market is a monopoly or oligarchy? Asking if MSFT is a monopoly? How long have you been around Linux? As I wrote to Paul, my comments were about whole grain bread, not Microsoft. First, you buy a few cartloads of white flour .. Add to it bran, chaff, sawdust .. whatever .. in adequate quantities. Spend a few bucks on marketing and designers .. come up with the right kind of ads .. labels .. slogans .. etc. Send out your sales force to a few major distributors. Sell them the stuff twice three times the price of the base component. Naturally, my comments are about whole grain, not Microsoft. Thanks, cga -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woohooo! Dell + Linux
Ron Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Every time I see a Cajun Cuisine restaurant, I laugh at how stupid people are. Cajun food is (ok, *was*) about as poor-folks as you can get. Economics notwithstanding, the food is still double-danged delicious! That's what counts to me. I like 'soul' food, too! Cybe R. Wizard -- The only intuitive interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned. Bruce Ediger -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I do consider Ubuntu to be Debian , Ian Murdock
On Thu, 2007-03-29 at 13:45 -0600, Paul E Condon wrote: It can take a while for a newish Debian user to get used to the Debian way. My preference is to stay somewhat 'behind the curve', but yours appears to be to stay somewhat 'ahead of the curve'. Yes, somewhat, though I tend to think of it more like in the middle of the curve. Testing, up until it gets frozen, is actually pretty up-to-date for most desktop-type packages. Once in a while, something or other will lag a bit, but usually for very good reason. I thought it sufficiently up-to-date without being bleeding edge, which was fine by me. For me, I run stable until I hear rumblings that testing is about to be frozen in preparation for becoming the new stable. Then, when I know that I have some free time to deal with computer glitches, I change my sources.list to mention the testing version by its code name, and do a dist-upgrade, and enjoy all the stuff that is new-to-me. With etch mentioned by name in sources.list the coming release of etch will be a non-event for me. You can use a different strategy: If you are not already running testing, dist-upgrade to it now, and use the word 'testing' in your sources.list. When etch is released, do nothing to your sources.list. There will be a hiatus in testing as all the packages that have been held back because of the freeze are released from Sid. Live thru that as best you can. It will, in effect, bring your system into reasonable sync with Sid. Then when you start hearing about a freeze of the next testing (Lenny?), do a dist-upgrade to Sid, and stay there. If you were to stay with testing, you would experience the same unhappiness that you express now, when Lenny gets frozen for many months. Actually, my plan is to stick with Etch until after it is released, then install a second instance of it and upgrade that to Lenny, and migrate my data over. I would like to have Etch as my back-up, in case something goes wrong with Lenny. It's unnecessarily cautious perhaps, but I'd rather set aside a few gigs for an OS I know will boot and function properly than be stuck with odds ends that aren't working. It's just that lately I've been thinking maybe I should try another distro, instead of using Lenny. I would still keep Etch no matter what. But I expected to be doing this by the new year, and here it is almost April, and still no Lenny. And you're right, it doesn't look like Debian is ever going to speed up the lag between freeze and release, so that just means another long freeze down the road. All the more reason to look about for an acceptable alternative, if there's one out there. Sid is too unstable and fast-moving for me. I tried it for a while before I settled on Etch. -- Michael M. ++ Portland, OR ++ USA No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream. --S. Jackson -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
javaldx failed.
mozilla openoffice wont start. netinst of Etch worked perfectly with all hardware working, internet accessible from console, xorg.conf ok, gdm and icewm ok, but mozilla start from default fails, openoffice start fails with internal error message. The .xsesseion-error file ends with message [Java framework] Error in function createUserSettingsDocument (elements.cxx).javaldx failed! Initially there were some permission problems and I could not open a console in the icewm window but I resolved this for the console window but possibly not for the Java error. Any suggestions as what to fix or where to look for guidance? Tom George -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
