Re: Q: User access to hardware peripherals - preferred method?
On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, James Mastros wrote: On Wed, Apr 07, 1999 at 08:19:47PM -0400, Michael Stutz wrote: This works for the CD-ROM drive after doing chgroup audio /dev/cdrom; chgroup audio /dev/hdc as root (should I have done that?) but doing mount /dev/fd0 /floppy as a user still gets mount: only root can do that: $ mount /dev/fd0 /floppy/ mount: only root can do that $ ls -l /dev/fd0 brw-rw 1 root floppy 2, 0 May 27 1997 /dev/fd0 $ groups m dialout floppy audio dip Is /floppy listed in /etc/fstab with the user flag (IE /dev/fd0 /3.5 auto defaults,noauto,user 0 0)? /floppy isn't listed in /etc/fstab at all. So should I add an entry in /etc/fstab for /floppy? Another question, then -- is this something that should be put in /etc/fstab when the e2fsprogs package is first installed? I tried this on three Debian 2.1 machines and all three had the same problem -- first, I do this as root: # addgroup foo floppy # addgroup foo dip # addgroup foo audio Then when user foo next logs in, foo can do pon and poff with no problem, but foo still can't mount the floppy or mount the cd-rom drive (or play cd audio). Only after doing chgroup audio /dev/cdrom; chgroup audio /dev/hdc as root can user foo then play audio cds, but non-root users still can't use the floppy drive. I'd like to do this the right (preferred Debian) way, though. Is chgrouping /dev/cdrom and what it points to the right way to do it for the CD-ROM? What about the floppy -- is the right way to do it to add a line in /etc/fstab for the floppy?
Q: User access to hardware peripherals - preferred method?
What is the One True Debian way to allow users access to special devices such as floppies, CD-ROM drives and modems (ie., ppp, efax and minicom)? The Debian FAQ has this to say on the subject: 12.2 How can I provide access to hardware peripherals, without compromising security? Many device files in the /dev directory belong to some predefined groups. For example, /dev/fd0 belongs to the floppy gruop, and /dev/dsp belongs to the audio group. If you want a certain user to have access to one of these devices, just add the user to the group the device belongs to. This way you have not to chmod the device file. But simply doing the following for user foo does not work (at least on my 2.1 system): # addgroup foo floppy # addgroup foo audio # addgroup foo dip Is there something else to it? Or a better method? There's several Optional packages for managing permissions (sudo, super, suidmanager) and a number of other, unlegant ways to do this involving /etc/fstab edits and chmoding device files; I was hoping to avoid this.
Re: Q: User access to hardware peripherals - preferred method?
On Wed, 7 Apr 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is the One True Debian way to allow users access to special devices such as floppies, CD-ROM drives and modems (ie., ppp, efax and minicom)? But simply doing the following for user foo does not work (at least on my 2.1 system): # addgroup foo floppy # addgroup foo audio # addgroup foo dip That SHOULD work. The user must logout and back in. do a 'groups' as the user to make sure they are in the group. This works for the CD-ROM drive after doing chgroup audio /dev/cdrom; chgroup audio /dev/hdc as root (should I have done that?) but doing mount /dev/fd0 /floppy as a user still gets mount: only root can do that: $ mount /dev/fd0 /floppy/ mount: only root can do that $ ls -l /dev/fd0 brw-rw 1 root floppy 2, 0 May 27 1997 /dev/fd0 $ groups m dialout floppy audio dip
dpkg trouble...
My dpkg is broken: # dpkg -S /usr/bin/brec dpkg: fgets gave an empty null-terminated string from `/var/lib/dpkg/info/kernel-source-2.0.30.list' # It first started the other day, when I tried to unintall Netscape 4 and then install Netscape 3; it happened when during the install of netscape3_3.04-3.deb (although I had the same error when trying to remove or install any other package). Nothing in the info, man or /usr/doc files allude to this error. And I haven't touched these kernel-source packages in a long time. As a temporary workaround, I moved kernel-source-2.0.30* from /var/lib/dpkg/info to a different directory. I want to fix this. What's going on?
navigator 3 binary?
Anyone know where to get a copy of the Netscape Navigator 3.x binary? They took it off their ftp sites; archive.netscape.com does not allow anon ftp logins. I downloaded and installed 4.0x but find it to be terrible -- it crashes roughly 4x as much as 3.x for me (ie., twice a day instead of three times a week), the way it handles bookmarks is botched, the keybindings are screwed, the smartkey completion feature is taken away, etc. ... (Alternately, if someone could recommend a good free browser that handled tables, forms, frames and the rest of the basics --- Emacs' w3-mode would be perfect if it could do images and had better support for color fonts...)
dpkg: fgets gave null string?
When I tried to install a package today, dpkg gave me a weird error about a different package. This came out of the blue -- the package in question had not been installed or played with in quite some time. The error message was, fgets gave an empty null-terminated string from /var/lib/dpkg/info/kernel-source-2.0.30.list and it happened when I was trying to install netscape3_3.04-3.deb (although I had the same error when trying to remove or install any other package): Updating package status cache...done Checking system integrity...ok The following NEW packages will be installed: netscape3 0 packages upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 0b/23.2k of archives. After unpacking 74.0k will be used. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] (Reading database ... dpkg: error processing netscape3_3.04-3.deb (--unpack): fgets gave an empty null-terminated string from /var/lib/dpkg/info/kernel-source-2.0.30.list' Errors were encountered while processing: netscape3_3.04-3.deb Processing was halted because there were too many errors. E: Sub-process returned an error code Some errors occured while unpacking. I'm going to configure the packages that were installed. This may result in duplicate errors or errors caused by missing dependencies. This is OK, only the errors above this message are important. Please fix them and run [I]nstall again Press enter to contiune. My workaround? Temporarily mv kernel-source-2.0.30* to a different directory, install the netscape3, and then mv the kernel-source* files back. It worked, although dpkg reported that a serious problem was found. Is there a better solution to the problem -- and can anyone tell me why this happpened in the first place? As always -- thanks.
Re: navigator 3 binary?
On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Raymond A. Ingles wrote: On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Michael Stutz wrote: Anyone know where to get a copy of the Netscape Navigator 3.x binary? They took it off their ftp sites; archive.netscape.com does not allow anon ftp logins. Is there a reason why you can't use anonynous login? I have no idea: franz# ftp archive.netscape.com Connected to psd1.netscape.com. 220 psd1 FTP server (Version wu-2.4(3) Tue Dec 27 17:53:56 PST 1994) ready. Name (archive.netscape.com:m): anonymous 530 User anonymous unknown. Login failed. Remote system type is UNIX. Using binary mode to transfer files. ftp But Tony Mollica pointed out on the list yesterday that username archive password oldies works: ftp://archive:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/archive/index.html#3.04 (I grabbed the binary last night, no need to send me a copy but thanks for the offer.) (Still can't wait for the day when Emacs w3-mode handles images and fonts. And is faster. It's otherwise very nice.)
Re: xterm-debian
On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, M.C. Vernon wrote: On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Michael Stutz wrote: Check out /usr/doc/xbase/README.Debian for the scoop. I've just read it, and it doesn't say anything about xterm-debian. * The default keymappings for xterm are different than they are upstream, to comply with the Debian Keyboard Policy and make xterm's behavior more consistent with the Linux virtual console. There are three terminal types (manipulated by the $TERM shell variable) recognized by terminfo, though the same xterm binary is used in all cases: 1) xterm (this is the traditional X11R6.3 xterm and is consistent with standard X11R6 xterms found on most other Unix machines) 2) xterm-xfree86 (this is XFree86's terminfo description for xterm) 3) xterm-debian (this is the Debian Project's terminfo description for xterm, based on the current XFree86 description but containing our modifications) There is a long list of technical reasons for the above (admittedly complicated) setup, which...
Re: viewing ansi graphics
On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Matt Garman wrote: Does anyone know of a way (or a utility) to view ansi graphics under Linux? cat will do this after changing the console font to a font that will properly display all of the extended ASCII characters. alt-8x16 is one such font, but there may be many more (check /usr/share/consolefonts/ for a lit). $ setfont alt-8x16 $ cat bbsfile.ans
Re: xterm-debian
On Sat, 26 Sep 1998, Shao Ying Zhang wrote: But, is this the formal way or proper way to do it?? What is xterm-debian?? Any additional features?? Check out /usr/doc/xbase/README.Debian for the scoop. I put this line in my .bash_profile: alias p=export TERM=xterm; pine Then type p to run pine.
Yikes: gimprc turned into a setuid fifo
I recently upgraded to hamm and added the gimp package, version 1.0.0-1. Today, the third time I ran it, GIMP reported that there was an error in reading the .gimprc file, so I took a look at it. It's gone: pr-S-wx--x 6425 6425 64250 May 6 1983 .gimp What's going on here? Is this a bug in GIMP or is my hard drive about to die? (Before this I used a .99x copy of gimp that I'd downloaded off gimp.org, and although I deleted the binary, some of it might still be sitting around in /usr/local/.)
Re: printer advice
On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Greg Norris wrote: Of course, any suggestions for alternate laser-printers which work well under Linux would also be greatly appreciated. The HP LaserJet 4M+ is a good printer with a lot of features. With magicfilter installed, it works like a charm. It's an older model, but you might be able to find someone who sell them. (Corporate Raider and A Matter of Fax are two companies that sell them; they advertise in _Computer Shopper_. I bought mine as new from Corporate Raider a few years ago for around $600.)
HELP! Seriously messed up bo - hamm
Please help -- I really messed up my 1.3 system today trying to upgrade to 2.0 using the 2-cd set from LSL. I'd like to be able to find a way out of this mess and be able to upgrade properly rather than having to save my /usr/local and /etc and then reinstall new... This is what happened: * The autoup.sh on the cd-rom didn't run as listed in the documentation (not executable); * So I decided to try the apt method, since it'd worked so nicely on another machine I had. I installed apt, and then changed /etc/apt/sources.list to point to the cd-rom. * I ran apt-get update. This is where the trouble started: Get file:/cdrom/debian/ stable/main Packages 0% [Packages ' 0] Updating package file cache...done Updating package status cache...done Checking system integrity...dependency error You might want to run apt-get -f install' to correct these. Sorry, but the following packages are broken - this means they have unmet dependencies: wget: Depends:libc6 wine: Depends:libc6 Depends:libwine0.0.971116 Depends:xlib6g Depends:xpm4g /cdrom/upgrade # * So then I went ahead with apt-get -f dist-upgrade anyway: /cdrom/upgrade # apt-get updat^H^H^H^H^H-f dis^Gt^G^G-upgrade Updating package status cache...done Checking system integrity...dependency error Correcting dependencies...ok The following packages will be REMOVED: wine xpdf 9fonts gv apache-modules gs-aladdin getty tk42-dev playmidi ncurses3.0-dev splay libg++27-dev tcl76-dev imgstar xdaliclock pstoedit xsnow svgalib1-dev ghostview libnet 9wm xloadimage xcolorsel 9menu tetex-extra libc5-dev libreadline2-dev libpthread0 libdb1-dev tetex-bin libgdbm1-dev tgif xfig The following NEW packages will be installed: libmime-base64-perl libpng2 xpm4g libpaperg svgalibg1 netpbm1 freetype1 libdb2 liblockfile0 libnet-perl libstdc++2.8 whiptail zlib1g dpkg-perl perl-base sgml-base libhdf4g libgdbmg1 tcl8.0 tcl7.6 libg++272 libpng0g libtiff3g newt0.21 data-dumper libgpmg1 libmpeg1 libc6 gawk ncurses3.4 cdrecord libjpegg6a libreadlineg2 slang0.99.38 The following packages have been kept back xaos wily fvwm2 xext xserver-vga16 xbase rxvt floatbg swisswatch rgrep afterstep xcdroast xfnt75 xfntbase transfig mctools-lite tk42 xfntbig xcontrib xserver-s3 fvwm-common imagemagick xfnt100 xcolors xlockmore xfntscl xfntcyr xspread xfntpex 9term jed xbooks xpaint tix41 tetex-dev 173 packages upgraded, 34 newly installed, 33 to remove and 35 not upgraded. 3 packages not fully installed or removed. Need to get 0b/56.1M of archives. After unpacking 3017k will be used. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y (Reading database ... 27573 files and directories currently installed.) Removing ghostview ... Update-menus: waiting for dpkg to finish (forking to background) Update-menus: (checking /var/lib/dpkg/lock) Removing wine ... Removing libgdbm1-dev ... install-info: No dir file specified; try --help for more information. dpkg: error processing libgdbm1-dev (--remove): subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 1 install-info: unrecognized option --description=The GNU Database Routines' Try install-info --help' for a complete list of options. dpkg: error while cleaning up: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1 Removing libdb1-dev ... Removing tk42-dev ... Removing tcl76-dev ... Removing libg++27-dev ... [...] So now, every time I run apt, I get this error: Updating package status cache...done Checking system integrity...dependency error You might want to run apt-get -f install' to correct these. Sorry, but the following packages are broken - this means they have unmet dependencies: wget: Depends:libc6 libg++27-dev: Depends:libc5-dev libgdbm1-dev: Depends:libc5-dev Running dselect doesn't help, either. dpkg is broken -- every time I run it I get something like: (Reading database ... 23523 files and directories currently installed.) Removing wget ... install-info: No dir file specified; try --help for more information. dpkg: error processing wget (--remove): subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 1 Update-menus: waiting for dpkg to finish (forking to background) Update-menus: (checking /var/lib/dpkg/lock) Errors were encountered while processing: wget And a lot of packages have been removed from my system -- it's not useable as it is right nowI downloaded the new autoup.sh on debian.org, and that one worked -- but I still get the above errors. I really need help -- what should I do? Thanks. m
Re: HELP! Seriously messed up bo - hamm
On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Jean Pierre LeJacq wrote: I'd first resolve the dependency problems by removing the packages with dpkg dpkg --remove wget If the prerm or postrm scripts fail, edit them to remove the problems. They're located in /var/lib/dpkg/info. Thanks, it's working now -- dpkg -r wget did nothing, but after checking the prerm and postrm scripts in /var/lib/dpkg/info I just nuked them completely, since the actual package was not on the system. This worked just fine, and then I was able to upgrade to 2.0 in minutes using the apt-get method. Now to just solve that patch manager problem...
sound module died in hamm upgrade
I just did an upgrade from 1.3 to 2.0; everything works except for sound; I'm using the Linux Ultrasound Project's gus driver, compiled as a module. I didn't change or make any updates to the kernel or to the sound package, which has been working fine for a long time on this system. Anyone see this one? Will downgrading my modutils and/or modconf packages fix this problem, or is there something else I should do? Thanks. This is what happens at boottime: Sound: IRQ15 already in use GUS MAX support was not compiled in!!! Invalid minor device 255 Sound: IRQ15 already in use GUS MAX support was not compiled in!!! Patch manager interface is currently broken. Sorry Patch manager interface is currently broken. Sorry gus: unable to get major device number 14 Sound: IRQ15 already in use GUS MAX support was not compiled in!!! Invalid minor device 255 Sound: IRQ15 already in use GUS MAX support was not compiled in!!! Patch manager interface is currently broken. Sorry Patch manager interface is currently broken. Sorry gus: unable to get major device number 14 Patch manager interface is currently broken. Sorry Patch manager interface is currently broken. Sorry
Re: sound module died in hamm upgrade
On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Michael Stutz wrote: I just did an upgrade from 1.3 to 2.0; everything works except for sound; I'm using the Linux Ultrasound Project's gus driver, compiled as a module. I didn't change or make any updates to the kernel or to the sound package, which has been working fine for a long time on this system. ... Patch manager interface is currently broken. Sorry Fixed. Explanation, for the search engines: what happened is that I must've compiled an oss sound module a while back for the gus and it was laying around in /lib/modules -- I deleted it, and now everything's fine. I must say, you can feel the work that was put into hamm -- the improvements are tremendous. I also appreciate the increased number of packages available -- I can clear out a lot of stuff from /usr/local/ now. I'll also second the remark someone made that it feels more like a system than bo or earlier, and future versions are only going to get better. I love Debian. If only cars and houses were engineered the way Debian is...
laptop install help
I'm installing 1.3.1 from floppy to a Toshiba Satellite Pro 400CS, and am having some trouble. The actual install went fine, up until the end where you get dropped in dselect. I installed the dpkg-ftp package (and all its dependencies, like Perl), but can't get my modem to work. (Since the machine has no cd-rom or ethernet card, I plan on installing the rest of the system via modem, so getting this to work is essential). I've got a Megahertz PCMCIA 14.4 fax/modem card that was recognized as com2 by the win311 software that came with the laptop. There were no cua? devices in /dev so I made cua0 and cua1 using the MAKEDEV script, made a /dev/modem symlink from cua1, but the pon command still dies on me. I copied minicom off another machine and tried it, and haven't gotten it to recognize the modem, so I figure there must be something else to it - do I also have to install some PCMCIA software, maybe a module? Thanks for any and all help, m -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: laptop install help
I've got a Megahertz PCMCIA 14.4 fax/modem card that was recognized as com2 by the win311 software that came with the laptop. There were no cua? devices in /dev so I made cua0 and cua1 using the MAKEDEV script, made a /dev/modem symlink from cua1, but the pon command still dies on me. I copied minicom off another machine and tried it, and haven't gotten it to recognize the modem, so I figure there must be something else to it - do I also have to install some PCMCIA software, maybe a module? PCMCIA comes in the form of a module. It's generally best to get the source package and use that to recompile and install them whenever you recomile a kernel. The easiest way to get it set up to begin with is to use the hamm install disks and install the pcmcia modules as you install debian. Otherwise, you'll need to put them on a floppy and copy them over and install them. They're in teh pcmcia-cs package. Ok, I did this, but now at boot time it complains that it can't find any modules in /lib/modules/2.0.32/pcmcia/ (and its right, that directory doesn't exist). I seem to be missing something -- loaded up the rescue disk again and did not find any module option for pcmcia devices. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
pcmcia install help
Now I am thoroughly confused. I installed pcmcia-cs_2.9.6-2.deb, which I found on my Debian 1.3.1 CD, and it complained that the actual modules were missing. The only pcmcia module package I could find on the CD were pcmcia-modules-2.0.29_2.9.5-2.deb and pcmcia-modules-2.0.30_2.9.5-3.deb; I tried installing both of them and it didn't work; both requires a difference pcmcia-cs pagackage (2.9.5-2, while the one I have is 3.0.0-5). There is also the question of whether or not it will work on this kernel, which is 2.0.32. So I went to www.debian.org and downloaded pcmcia-modules-2.0.32_3.0.0-5k5.deb. Well, that package is dependent on pcmcia-cs_3.0.0-5.deb, so I downloaded that, and then I got the error that it needed libc6. Now, I have no idea what I should do to get Debian working. I'm ready to conclude that you cannot install Debian on a laptop that uses a pcmcia modem as its primary interface to the world. I would really love it if somebody proved me wrong. On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Obi wrote: I copied minicom off another machine and tried it, and haven't gotten it to recognize the modem, so I figure there must be something else to it - do I also have to install some PCMCIA software, maybe a module? You need to install some pcmcia package. If I remember correctly one is pcmcia-cs (it contains the daemon and related stuff) and the second one is pcmcia-modules (are the modules compiled against the version of the kernel you have: check it out when you downlod it). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: pcmcia install help
On 21 Apr 1998, Mike Miller wrote: There is also the question of whether or not it will work on this kernel, which is 2.0.32. So I went to www.debian.org and downloaded pcmcia-modules-2.0.32_3.0.0-5k5.deb. How did you get a 2.0.32 kernel while installing Debian 1.3.1? That's what I'm trying to figure out! When I first boot my rescue disk, it identifies itself as a 2.0.29 kernel, but when I copied the kernel and base files to my notbook and rebooted, a uname -a revealed that I have 2.0.32 installed -- so the pcmcia-cs and pcmcia-modules that come on the disc (cheapbytes debian 1.3.1 cd) don't work. Once I had the pcmcia packages, I installed them with dpkg: dpkg --install pcmcia-csversion.deb dpkg --install pcmcia-modulesversion.deb That's all it took. I hope that using the 2.9.6-3 version of pcmcia-cs solves your troubles. When I do this, I get an error at boot time about the versions not being the same and then Card Services exits... P.S. I'm curious - is this a test to see if you can do this installation with a modem? Or is there some reason that you can't install directly from your cd? The cd is on another box. My laptop doesn't have a cd-rom drive or network card, so I have to get it up and going via floppy and then install everything else via dpkg-ftp with the modem. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: pcmcia install help
On 21 Apr 1998, Mike Miller wrote: Michael == Michael Stutz stutz@dsl.org writes: I'm ready to conclude that you cannot install Debian on a laptop that uses a pcmcia modem as its primary interface to the world. I would really love it if somebody proved me wrong. There is also the question of whether or not it will work on this kernel, which is 2.0.32. So I went to www.debian.org and downloaded pcmcia-modules-2.0.32_3.0.0-5k5.deb. How did you get a 2.0.32 kernel while installing Debian 1.3.1? By using the disks that were under current, or 1997-10-13. I just reinstalled the system using new disks I made from the 1997-08-01 directory, and now have a 2.0.29 kernel installed. I then attempted to install pcmcia-modules-2.0.29_2.9.5-2.deb, but it requires pcmcia-cd_2.9.5x.deb, and not the pcmcia-cs_2.9.6-2.deb that's on my cd or the pcmcia-cs_2.9.6-2.deb that's currently available from the debian archives. Where do old packages go when they die? Is there a place where I can get this older pcmcia-cs_2.9.5.x.deb file? Browsing the package directories off www.debian.org, I couldn't find it, and the search package directories cgi appears to be broken (as of late last night, it returns a directory listing instead of a list of packages). Further weirdness: during my reinstall process, I rebooted the machine and was then brought to the prompt where you enter a password for the root user. Then I was caught in an infinite loop -- I'd add a password, confirm it, and then it started this all over again, asking me to pick a password for the root account! So I rebooted, and now all reboots end with you being dumped into a root shell. This does not look good. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: laptop install help
On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Jens B. Jorgensen wrote: In addition to the pcmcia-cs package you also need the pcmcia-modules-2.0.?? .deb package which matches your kernel version. 'uname --release' will tell you which one you've got. You'll have to ftp this package from the debian archive, put in on a floppy, then install it on your laptop with 'dpkg --install pcmcia-.deb'. Reboot and hopefully your pcmcia hardware isn't too new for the version of pcmcia support debian provides in the stable release. You should see messages when your laptop boots telling you that the pcmcia card manager found and identified a serial port (your modem). It will also tell you which device it's assigned as. If it says 'tty02' then the correct modem device for you is /dev/ttyS2. Try this and let us know. After installing pcmcia-modules-2.0.29x.deb and pcmcia-cs-2.9.6-3.deb on a 2.0.29 system as described in my last post, Card Services does start at bootup, but complains about unresolved errors in my modules/pcmcia directory and then cardmgr dies, saying that there's no pcmcia in /proc/devices ... My guess is that I will have to find (from where, I don't know) the older pcmcia-cs that works with this version of pcmcia-modules and install that. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: pcmcia install help
On 21 Apr 1998, Mike Miller wrote: First, I installed base system with floppies. Then I copied the pcmcia-cs and pcmcia-modules packages from the debian archive to a different linux machine and put them on a floppy. Since you've got a cd, you might not need to do that. On the other hand, since you've had problems with pcmcia-cs_2.9.6-2.deb and the pcmcia-modules packages on your cd, I suggest you get the current versions from the stable directory at your-favorite-debian-ftp-site. The versions that are there now are pcmcia-cs_2.9.6-3.deb, pcmcia-modules-2.0.29-7 and pcmcia-modules-2.0.30-7. Hey, it worked! I not only had to use the latest pcmcia-cs, but pcmcia-modules-2.0.29-7 was necessary (instead of the pcmcia-modules-2.0.29.2x that came with my disc). Thanks to everyone for your help. (Now can someone tell me why it's dumping me directly into a root shell after bootup? The other virtual consoles have login gettys running as normal.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: pcmcia install help
On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Michael Stutz wrote: (Now can someone tell me why it's dumping me directly into a root shell after bootup? The other virtual consoles have login gettys running as normal.) Replace /etc/inittab with /etc/inittab.real. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: any debianized CAD programs?
On Sun, 15 Feb 1998, David Stern wrote: Are there any debianized CAD programs? I'm running hamm, and I don't see any. Are there any *linux* CAD programs? (That are open source and not proprietary. Haven't found much in this area...) -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: faxing using linux?
On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Chris Keathley Keathley wrote: I am new to linux and learning a lot very fast. I am doing good learning on my own and reading many linux and unix books. But , my wife needs to fax something and I don't have any clue on how to go about it. Check the efax package. It's the easiest fax system I've seen so far (Linux or otherwise). Michael Stutz . http://dsl.org/m/ . copyright disclaimer etc stutz@dsl.org : finger for pgp : http://dsl.org/copyleft/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: Announce: Simple End-User Linux (SEUL) Project
On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, George Bonser wrote: I think it might be a better idea to concentrate resources on the one currently available completely free Linux distribution and improve it rather than further fragment the community with yet another distribution. One thing I've never been convinced of is the idea in some distribution projects that stripping down the number of available packages to only a relatively few essential applications is a good thing for new, home or office users. With a $2 Debian CD from CheapBytes, one has access to hundreds of packages -- why restrict that access? Could the project goals of SEUL be met by Debian somehow? It already is a stable, robust distribution, and is not going to go away. It also has gotten easier to install and maintain with recent releases. What if improvements were made to Debian's install and upgrade facilities to make it even easier, and/or more documentation was created in the form of useful tutorials for common procedures -- would this meet SEUL's goals? If so, it would save a lot of work both for the SEUL team (who would be creating a new distribution from scratch, which realistically would probably never be as robust as Debian), and for the Debian project (who would gain the assistance of the SEUL folks in making Debian easier to install and maintain). Michael Stutz . http://dsl.org/m/ . copyright disclaimer etc stutz@dsl.org : finger for pgp : http://dsl.org/copyleft/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: SVGA Web Browser?
On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Tim Thomson wrote: Such a beast would be great. Alas, I don't think one exists. Perhaps if Mnemonic ever gets into beta, we'll see one. What is Mnemonic? A project to build a graphical, GPLed, buzzword-compliant Web browser: http://www.mnemonic.org http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/3907.html http://mnemonic.browser.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: The Debian Gnu logo?
On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Michael [badpixel/bad sector] wrote: Is there a site, where I can get the Debian logo in different sizes/formats? _Is_ there an official Debian logo yet? Michael Stutz . http://dsl.org/m/ . copyright disclaimer etc stutz@dsl.org : finger for pgp : http://dsl.org/copyleft/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: SVGA Web Browser?
On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Tim Thomson wrote: Has anyone heard of a Web browser that uses the svgalibs (or some other method), rather than X-Win? I have a 100meg hard drive, and have about 10meg free, so I don't really want to install X-win, plus I only have a 386SX, so X-win is rather slow. Such a beast would be great. Alas, I don't think one exists. Perhaps if Mnemonic ever gets into beta, we'll see one. There is one for DOS called Arachne (Caldera sells it as WebSpyder32). Unfortunately, no source code -- though I've heard of Linux users running it somewhere (maybe they got it to work under DOSEMU, but that doesn't solve your problem either). While I am a GNU/Linux and free software advocate, and enjoy turning very low-end hardware into useable free software systems, I've been thinking lately that it's more practical to run Caldera's OpenDOS/WebSpyder32 on a machine like yours than run Linux, especially if using the Web is a priority. I don't even know if you _could_ install X on that system -- it would just be impossible to use. Good luck, m Michael Stutz . http://dsl.org/m/ . copyright disclaimer etc stutz@dsl.org : finger for pgp : http://dsl.org/copyleft/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
TCL Treelink program on Debian?
Has anyone ever gotten the TCL program treelink to run on their Debian system? I'm having problems. (Treelink creates PostScript-output hypergraphs of Web sites: http://aorta.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de/~gaier/treelink/. It requires Tcl7.x/TclX7.x/Tk3.x.) I downloaded the source and tried it on several machines, getting the same errors: $ wishx -f treelink-1.1.tcl.html Starting up TreeLink 1.1 by K. Gaier unknown option -foreground while executing scrollbar .y_scroll -orient vertical -command $w_canv yview -background $treeli_priv(canv_bg) -foreground $treeli_priv(canv_bg) -activeforeground ... invoked from within set scr [scrollbar .y_scroll -orient vertical -command $w_canv yview -background $treeli_priv(canv_bg) -foreground $treeli_priv(canv_bg) -activef ... (procedure display_tree line 54) invoked from within display_tree (file treelink-1.1.tcl.html line 1048) Michael Stutz . http://dsl.org/m/ . copyright disclaimer etc stutz@dsl.org : finger for pgp : http://dsl.org/copyleft/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Best way to save fvwm2 desktop
Is there a Debian-centric approach to dealing with the fvwm2 config files? What I want to do is save my desktop so that every time I start X again I can get the applications I want to load in exactly the same place; using the FvwmSave command I get the .fvwm2desk file, but that doesn't include positions for all of the apps that are running -- only xterms and xclock appear. Worse, inserting those commands into the stock .xinitrc file will get them to start with some of the same attributes, but they all load in the first virtual window. Can someone instruct me how to do it the Right Way? Thanks. m -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: WordProcessor + SoundCard + ZIP PRINTING
On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Àlex Maneu wrote: Do you know if there is any good word processor for Linux? (I mean like WordPerfect, or, at least, like windoze WordPad). If so, where can I find it? You can buy a WordPerfect version for Linux. Applixware is a WYSIWYG word processor that you can also buy (I don't know where to get either, maybe try linuxmall.com or cheapbytes.com). If you are looking to produce a typeset document, you might want to look into the LyX frontend for LaTeX. This will generally produce better results than word processors. Or if you are writing something that does _not_ need to be typeset, you might want to keep it text: look into text editors, such as Emacs and vi. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: What does 'bo' stand for?
On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, Martin Schulze wrote: On Mon, Dec 29, 1997 at 02:33:50AM +0100, Pancho Horrillo wrote: Hi! I have a silly question: What does 'bo' stand for in Debian distribution tree? Binary Something? Bo is a character from the film 'Toy Story'. And what about hamm? Didn't see explanations for either in the FAQ -- would that be a good addition? Michael Stutz . http://dsl.org/m/ . copyright disclaimer etc stutz@dsl.org : finger for pgp : http://dsl.org/copyleft/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: UPS
On Thu, 25 Dec 1997, David Stern wrote: Is a UPS good protection or is it fluff? It's well worth it. My UPS has saved my system at least four times in the past year. Are there any Linux UPS resources out there other than the HOWTO ? I'd like to find out which models have intelligent UPS features working with Linux, and which models ship with prefabricated RS-232 cables for Linux. I recommend Best Power's products (I use their intelligent Fortress model on my single-user sytem), see a recent copy of the UPS HOWTO. They are a little more expensive than, say, APC, but my impression is that the hardware is superior; better yet, they openly support GNU/Linux, and include the source to the accompanying software (which is easy to install). And a cable is included. m Michael Stutz . http://dsl.org/m/ . copyright disclaimer etc stutz@dsl.org : finger for pgp : http://dsl.org/copyleft/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
xcdroast and generic scsi
I'm having a problem getting xcdroast to start -- I get this message: Error: Some or all Generic-SCSI-Devices are missing. Please create first the devices. Run ./MAKEDEV.sg in the xcdroast-0.95c directory. Trouble is, there _is_ no xcdroast-0.95c directory. The MAKEDEV.sg script is not on my system. I read the xcdroast README and it said to run the file ./syscheck for troubleshooting; that file too doesn't seem to exist. I've burned CDs before -- I have a working HP SureStore 6020i and have successfully used cdwrite etc. in the past. My cdwriter is on /dev/sr0; the README said that both sr0 and sr1 should exist, so I made a symlink from /dev/scd1 to /dev/sr1. I also have the devices sg[0-7] and sgb; I ran ./MAKEDEV sg in the /dev directory, which didn't do anything but then I ran ./MAKEDEV sg[a-g] which seemed to create the device files that xcdroast thinks I need. Still no go. Does anyone know what I should do next? Thanks. m Michael Stutz . http://dsl.org/m/ . copyright disclaimer etc stutz@dsl.org : finger for pgp : http://dsl.org/copyleft/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
some dselect questions
Hey all-- Got several dselect questions that have been bugging me lately. One thing I don't like about dselect is with the searching -- is there a way to search through the text descriptions as well as the package names? Also, I'm not crazy about \ as the repeat search key -- is there a reason why an empty / search couldn't repeat the last search? Is it possible to view unstable packages with dselect? The Packages file never seems to be available. This leads to a question I have about libraries. My intent was to install Wine, and after not finding it in dselect's selection menu after updating my package lists, I thought there didn't exist a Debian package for it. I thought this was kinda odd, so after searching debian.org found it in unstable. Among the dependencies listed was xlib6g and a few other unstable packages that didn't appear in dselect. The idea of replacing the libraries on my main box with unstable libc6, xlib6g and xpm4g scared me, and so I decided not to install it. Would this have broken my system? Furthermore, are these libs at all close to being moved over to stable? Finally, what's the status of diety? thanks m Michael Stutz . http://dsl.org/m/ . copyright disclaimer etc stutz@dsl.org : finger for pgp : http://dsl.org/copyleft/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
apropos broken in 1.3?
Hello-- It seems my apropos doesn't work; I've got Debian 1.3.1 and -- according to apropos -- nothing is ever appropriate. So I did an apropos -d a and got this: found mandatory man directory /usr/man found mandatory man directory /usr/X11R6/man found mandatory man directory /usr/local/man found manpath map /bin -- /usr/man found manpath map /usr/bin -- /usr/man found manpath map /sbin -- /usr/man found manpath map /usr/sbin -- /usr/man found manpath map /usr/local/bin -- /usr/local/man found manpath map /usr/local/sbin -- /usr/local/man found manpath map /usr/X11R6/bin -- /usr/X11R6/man found manpath map /usr/games -- /usr/man found global mandir /usr/man/de_DE mapped to catdir /var/catman/de_DE found global mandir /usr/man/it_IT mapped to catdir /var/catman/it_IT found global mandir /usr/man mapped to catdir /var/catman found global mandir /usr/local/man mapped to catdir /var/catman/local found global mandir /usr/X11R6/man mapped to catdir /var/catman/X11R6 path directory /usr/local/bin is in the config file adding /usr/local/man to manpath path directory /usr/bin is in the config file adding /usr/man to manpath path directory /bin is in the config file /usr/man is already in the manpath path directory /usr/bin/X11 is not in the config file and doesn't have man or MAN subdirectories path directory /usr/games is in the config file /usr/man is already in the manpath path directory . is not in the config file and doesn't have man or MAN subdirectories adding mandatory man directories /usr/man is already in the manpath adding /usr/X11R6/man to manpath /usr/local/man is already in the manpath adding /usr/local/man to manpathlist adding /usr/man to manpathlist adding /usr/X11R6/man to manpathlist lower(a) = a path=/usr/local/man apropos: warning: can't read the fallback whatis text database. apropos: /usr/local/man/whatis: No such file or directory path=/usr/man apropos: warning: can't read the fallback whatis text database. apropos: /usr/man/whatis: No such file or directory path=/usr/X11R6/man apropos: warning: can't read the fallback whatis text database. apropos: /usr/X11R6/man/whatis: No such file or directory a: nothing appropriate. close_catalogue() What is up? email stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997 Michael Stutz; this information is http://dsl.org/m/ free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and as long as this sentence remains; it comes with absolutely NO WARRANTY; for details see http://dsl.org/copyleft/. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: apropos broken in 1.3?
On Wed, 13 Aug 1997, Oliver Elphick wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], writes: Hello-- It seems my apropos doesn't work; I've got Debian 1.3.1 and -- according to apropos -- nothing is ever appropriate. So I did an apropos -d a and got Perhaps you need to run mandb to create the manual page index. Yup, that did it. Shouldn't the man package automagically do this once installed or via the dselect [C]onfigure option? email stutz@dsl.org Copyright (c) 1997 Michael Stutz; this information is http://dsl.org/m/ free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and as long as this sentence remains; it comes with absolutely NO WARRANTY; for details see http://dsl.org/copyleft/. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Running GIMP as a user
Certain X apps like GIMP only seem to like being run as root (in this case I can run GIMP as a user but I cannot open any files, nor can I perform editing tasks on a new one). What is the reasoning behind this? Also, is there a way to change this so that I can run this software as a user? Thanks. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
A few general Debian questions.
1. What's the current status of deity, the replacement for Debian's dselect? Are there any documents available that I can find out more on it? I haven't seen anything on debian.org about it. 2. Does anyone know at this point what the upgrade to 2.0 will be like -- like, will it require a complete reinstall or will there be an easy means to upgrade your existing Debian system? 3. The debian-user mailing list is gated to Usenet as linux.debian.user, but will subscribers see messages that are posted to that newsgroup? Furthermore, should there be some mention of linux.debian.user in the Debian faq? (I tried posting to the ng several times and failed; either my local news setup is screwey, or posting to the newsgroup don't go to subscribers. Either way, I think the faq should make mention of this so as not to confuse future users.) Thanks... http://dsl.org/m/ Copyright (c) 1997 Michael Stutz; this information is email stutz@dsl.org free and may be reproduced under GNU GPL, and as long as this sentence remains; it comes with absolutely NO WARRANTY; for details see http://dsl.org/copyleft/. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: The CD Issue
On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, Brian C. White wrote: Debian is committed to making a high-quality Linux distribution. It's not commited to public charity. Even the GPL says you can charge anything you want for the software. You just can't restrict further distribution of that code. As they say, the free in free software refers to freedom, not price... -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some thoughts for Debian.
On Sun, 19 Jan 1997, Jaldhar H. Vyas wrote: Maybe that would be a good idea. What if experienced (or just opinionated :-) debian users put up web pages, perhaps at some central location like www.debian.org detailing their own mini-distributions. This is a good idea. Like you said, Debian was made to be extensible and allow for anyone to create their own distribution based on Debian; imho this is what makes it so strong, because different people use it for vastly different things. Michael Stutz | DESIGN SCIENCE LABS http://dsl.org/m | Hypermedia, Internet, Linux/GNU bumper stickers,indie rock,rants | Linux: http://dsl.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Some thoughts for Debian.
On Mon, 20 Jan 1997, John Goerzen wrote: While I understand and applaud the basic concepts behind Debian, it's success will depend on what the commercial community does with it. I disagree. Debian is free software. If enough people at home use it, that will be fine. Or if it penetrates into Computer Science, Engineering, etc... Finally, a voice of reason. What made me try Debian in the first place was its supposed commitment to free software and the free software community, and now the talk has turned into something more like marketing the next Microsoft product. Complete with brainstorming on how to destroy the competition (Red Hat and Slackware). Can't Debian exist with its brothers and sisters, or is this a fight to win? I believe that its success will depend on what Debian (and non-Debian) Linux/GNU has always depended on: individuals, and what this community of individuals will do with it. 3) revamp the web pages. its the first place a user might check for info on debian and they look really bad right now. ( i know this has already been discussed ) Now this I agree with! It is especially bad to see some parts of this may not be working... at the top. Delete links to those that don't work or fix them. Who's in charge of them, and how can one get involved with this? Michael Stutz | DESIGN SCIENCE LABS http://dsl.org/m | Hypermedia, Internet, Linux/GNU bumper stickers,indie rock,rants | Linux: http://dsl.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Latex (Debian and Tetex). Was: Fax programs! help please. (fwd)
On Sat, 18 Jan 1997, Johann Spies wrote: On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Paul Rightley wrote: Also, how do you go about getting/installing TeTeX in Debian? Anyone know of any plans to make a debian package out of this? I use TeTeX on a Slackware system and am very impressed with it. -- This message was delayed because the list mail delivery agent was down.
Re: New install
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Fundamental wrote: I sat down today to do what i have done many times before, setup a debian box. I started the boot process, got to the partition a hard disk section and got the error that debian could not detect a hard disk. The machine has a scsi disk with an adaptec controller. Yes, I had that same problem. You probably bought the machine with some form of windows on it. Hit ctrl-a during bootup when the adaptec message comes up and turn SCAM off. Then turn off the DOS 1m option, give your hard disk a low-level format, power down your system and manually set the scsi id and termination jumpers on all your scsi equipment. Make sure that the booting harddisk is scsi id 0 and all your equipment comes after it in numeric order (except the adaptec itself, which is always id 7). and make sure that the last device in your scsi chain has the termination jumper set. Then power back up and it should work fine. Michael Stutz | DESIGN SCIENCE LABS http://dsl.org/m | Hypermedia, Internet, Linux/GNU bumper stickers,indie rock,rants | Linux: http://dsl.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New install
On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Daniel Stringfield wrote: I'm assuming a Adaptec 2940, right? I don't think the normal boot disk kernel works with the 2940, only the 2740, 2840's, even though it says so. Yeah, the normal boot disk does work with 2940s... Michael Stutz | DESIGN SCIENCE LABS http://dsl.org/m | Hypermedia, Internet, Linux/GNU bumper stickers,indie rock,rants | Linux: http://dsl.org -- This message was delayed because the list mail delivery agent was down.
Re: Fax programs! help please. (fwd)
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have felt for some time that a lot of people are getting the wrong idea about Linux. I don't think linux is intended to be a suitable replacement OS for computer illiterates and other people who want to put no work into their system, and I hope linux developers are not trying to make it that. I want to add some comments to this. First, you have some very good points. To try and make this OS usable for computer illiterates (which is, face it, a polite term for moron) to install and self-maintain will not work. No matter how easy it ever gets to install and/or upgrade Linux, I think there is one basic requisite all users must have: the desire to learn. Not that I think it's too terribly difficult, but learning to be a sysadmin takes time and is definitely out of the scope of casual computer users. This casual computer user doesn't want to have to think while using a computer -- they want the software to be so transparent that its use is immediately second nature. (Quick aside: isn't is wonderful how far the free software movement has come in the past 5 or so years where now we're actually discussing these kind of issues?) It's these kind of users who install Win95 without question (the mis people who worship it should know better, but alas). Not that I think Win95 and its ilk are easy. They give the illusion of ease of use, but they're inefficient, unstable, etc etc. And I've seen more than one computer newbie struggling to use it. It's time for a new interface -- X is nice but it's not the be-all end-all, either. One program that's a new interface in itself is Wily. But we could use a completely new interface for general computing that would pass Ted Nelson's ten minutes to learn test (his _Dream Machines_ has some great ideas in this regard) and not be another regurgitation of the window paradigm. But anyway, no matter what the tool, it takes time to master. Or to just use with mediocrity, even. I do believe that great opportunities are being opened up for free software consultants who can provide and install these systems to small business. A Linux/GNU system can be a powerful tool for a small business, providing great software that would normally be out of their price range. But in most cases they will still need someone else to come in (dial in?) to administer the system. Again, an opportunity for consultants. Michael Stutz | DESIGN SCIENCE LABS http://dsl.org/m | Hypermedia, Internet, Linux/GNU bumper stickers,indie rock,rants | Linux: http://dsl.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Best Debian CD?
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Nick Busigin wrote: Actually, I prefer a gold CD with black marker written on it. It's more likely to be up to date than one of the more commercial offerings from a more established CD vendor. Yeah, it's this homegrown/grassroots approach that's made free software a success in the first place. I think what has to go is the belief that if it's done by a community of individuals, rather than corporations, it's somehow bad or sub-par. Culturally speaking, corporate disenfranchisement is going on all across the board, and has been for several years. Spending time and resources creating the illusion of a corporate product with its gloss and style over substance is wasteful and imho the wrong direction. Not that I oppose appropriate design or attractiveness -- not at all. But a thing can look nice while retaining its heritage -- in this case, a cooperative global youth community of individuals. m Michael Stutz | DESIGN SCIENCE LABS http://dsl.org/m | Hypermedia, Internet, Linux/GNU bumper stickers,indie rock,rants | Linux: http://dsl.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Morons and illiterates [was Re: Fax programs! help please.]
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Rick Macdonald wrote: And I certainly don't know how I can flush the toilet and it manages to go _uphill_ to get out of my neighborhood. No, but it probably took you a while to get potty-trained. Same with learning to drive a car -- anything worth doing will require effort. You don't have to know its internals, but it will require effort of you to use any given tool. That was my point. Even if the car has an automatic transmission, power everything and cute little icons on all the controls -- nothing will replace practice, patience and persistance. Although two people say above that Linux won't work for people who can't build their own system, I'm sure lots of people want to prove you wrong. I didn't say that. I encourage people to learn and use Linux. In fact, I am building a distribution based on Debian for writers and artists without much computer experience. But people who can't _administer_ a system will need someone who can. Is Caldera or any other group working on a product that will make system administration unnecessary? If so, I would like to know about it. An idea here is remote dial-in. To call non-nerd computer users morons, illiterate or even casual is ludicrous. This is becoming an issue of semantics. There is a difference between the terms illiterate and computer illiterate. Maybe it is ludicrous to call a non-nerd computer user a moron, but it is fact that many people, when using the term computer illiterate, really _mean_ moron. Personally, I vote for a simple, fool-proof, don't-have-to-read more than a couple-of-pages base installation, hopefully including X (tough, I know) base installation. This wins over a large base of Linux users. Definitely. Michael Stutz | DESIGN SCIENCE LABS http://dsl.org/m | Hypermedia, Internet, Linux/GNU bumper stickers,indie rock,rants | Linux: http://dsl.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fax programs! help please. (fwd)
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997, Ami Ganguli wrote: What will the user do in 3 months when something goes wrong (as things do inevitably happen)? He or she might not even know where to begin looking let alone be able to fix the problem. The same thing the user would do with Win95. Call somebody who does know the answer and if necessary pay them to fix it. Hey! This could be the answer! So simple. As long as they knew who to call -- maybe including the Linux Consultants-HOWTO with the base install (and letting the user know it was there). Michael Stutz | DESIGN SCIENCE LABS http://dsl.org/m | Hypermedia, Internet, Linux/GNU bumper stickers,indie rock,rants | Linux: http://dsl.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Debian For The People
Okay, since this is getting to be a hot topic. A self-explanatory Debian GNU/Linux system for non-administrators does not now exist. These are, I think, the main obstacles to be overcome in order for such a system to be possible: 1. Installation. dselect has sure come a long way. But installation and package maintenance is still not so easy, especially for the novice or Linux newbie. The keystrokes are sometimes confusing, as are some of the messages (especially when a package is listed as broken but appears to work fine). Having done a Debian installation just last week, I'm impressed at how far the installation process has come. It is really excellent. But for someone who can't edit a printcap file -- let alone know what one is -- it's clearly not enough. 2. Comprehensive documentation and best practices. There is plenty of excellent Linux documentation out there and more being written right now, but where does one start? It would probably be a function of the distribution to provide pointers to helpful documentation. For us, the Linux Documentation Project and netnews are sufficient, but what about the newbie who has no interest in administration, which is what we're talking about here? I think it would be a combination of paper and digital documentation, perhaps with some kind of interactive online resource, like a special default shell for beginners (trash -- training shell?) that is restrictive but has some kind of self-paced tutorial built into it. Also, would a document of best practices be useful for newbies? This might be necessary because the Linux/GNU world is different from what a newbie is probably used to. The idea of small tools who do their job well and can interact with each other to form a larger whole, a staple bit of UNIX philosophy, is foreign to them. They're used to a few monolithic special-case applications with names like word processor, spreadsheet, desktop publishing. So when the new user is sitting there looking at her X console, how does she, say, compose a letter and print it out? Use TeX? How? How to maintain a database of names and addresses and print them to labels for a mass mailing? Or create a simple flyer with a clip-art image and a few fonts? Not difficult tasks for someone familiar with Linux/GNU, but how would a new user utilize all the powerful software her system is now running? Like the development of Linux itself, I think the answer to this lies in using the net -- be it some kind of web site/search engine with a new interface or whatever, we need some way of compiling all our best practices/techniques and whatnot and making it easily accessible. Not just searching through a huge database but there needs to be some kind of categorization to the mess. 3. Administration. Maybe the answer is as easy as someone suggested--a user simply seeks out those who can do the work, and pays them for the service, when the time comes. So the question is how do these users know where to go? We have to make sure that resource (a listing of consultants and their rates) is readily available and easily accessible. 4. Awareness. When the time comes, the users will have to know that Linux is out there in order to use it! Word-of-mouth and the net have done wonders for Linux and I expect that to continue. Along with advertising from companies such as Red Hat, Caldera, etc. And another resource, one that I think should not be understated, is local users groups. Michael Stutz | DESIGN SCIENCE LABS http://dsl.org/m | Hypermedia, Internet, Linux/GNU bumper stickers,indie rock,rants | Linux: http://dsl.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Troubleshooting (was Re: DEBIAN 1.2 DISKETTE PROBLEMS UPDATE)
On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Daniel S. Barclay wrote: From: Mark W. Blunier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Maybe we should start a new mailing list, debian-dumb-questions. It would cut my traffic down from debian-user. Should there be a debian-newbie? Maybe debian-setup? debian-help? What's happening on debian-talk? Michael Stutz | DESIGN SCIENCE LABS http://dsl.org/m | Hypermedia, Internet, Linux/GNU bumper stickers,indie rock,rants | Linux: http://dsl.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Gravis Ultrasound PnP sound card, How to make work with debian ?
On Thu, 9 Jan 1997, Stan Brown wrote: I asked around a little, and decided to buy a Gravis Ultrasound card for my debian machine. It turns out to be a PnP device. I don't think there's a Debian package for this yet, but there is a Linux Gravis Ultrasound Project with their own loadable driver as a replacement for the standard USS sound support. Check ftp://ftp.pf.jcu.cz/pub/perex/ultra/. It is still in development but already is an excellent driver. Included with the distribution is isapnptools, which will allow you to configure your Plug'n'Pray device. m Michael Stutz | DESIGN SCIENCE LABS http://dsl.org/m | Hypermedia, Internet, Linux/GNU bumper stickers,indie rock,rants | Linux: http://dsl.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian for regular folk (was: A proposal to improve dselect)
On Wed, 8 Jan 1997, Ami Ganguli wrote: Michael Stutz wrote: I am starting a project now that I've been thinking about for some time: making a custom Debian distribution geared toward writers, artists and other creative types who don't have much knowledge of Linux to start with. I think this is a fantastic idea! But I'm not sure about the particular audience you mention (except maybe for 'Net access). You need to identify user groups that would be well served by what's available (HAM operators?). Yes, that's mentioned in 15.3 in the FAQ. As for writers, I believe that anything on the market for wintel cannot compare to the tools I have available with Debian/GNU Linux (emacs, TeX, rcs, ispell, bash, perl, etc). Not only can I do serious text editing, but I can produce _typeset_ copy. Yes, there is TeX for windows but it's the combination of tools I have that's so powerful. Graphics is the same, with The GIMP, pbmplus, ghostview, xpaint, etc. And of course net access. And even all the tools a small business or art/craft venture needs (sc, bc, xcalc, xfig, etc). So I would think that a custom distribution and the appropriate manuals could be excellent for others with these interests, except it would be minus the initial work of pulling it all together, getting everything to work, figuring out best practices, etc. I like the 'sponsor' idea a lot - but the system should be developed to a point where the administration is virtually non-existent (by current standards) or this could be hellish. The role of the sponsor should be limited to answering questions except in extreme cases. Yeah, this is definitely 'idea stage' material here. But I do believe that we're at that point (with Linux) that if we can concieve of something, we can make it happen. m Michael Stutz | DESIGN SCIENCE LABS http://dsl.org/m | Hypermedia, Internet, Linux/GNU bumper stickers,indie rock,rants | Linux: http://dsl.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A proposal to improve dselect
On Tue, 7 Jan 1997 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree that dselect has some problems for users who are new to it. I too have seen people who where experienced with unix and who were mystified by dselect at first. In concept, dselect is great. It's an attempt to create a user interface that's not based on the window/pulldown menu interface that (I believe) is highly overrated. It's nice because for whatever use a window system has, it's not the only way to do things. I do not believe that it is gui (windows) vs. command line. Those are only two ways. dselect is different and I like that. The problem with dselect, I think, is that the user quickly gets lost in the context. Think of using a computer program as watching a movie: there's a certain sequence to it and it will make sense. It's like dselect skips a sequence somewhere, gets too much into its own terminology too quickly, and the user's lost. Bottom line is I think dselect's a good thing but something has to be changed. Maybe dselect doesn't go far _enough_ in it's direction, I don't know. But Debian can be difficult to install and to do package maintenance, and that has to change. Michael Stutz | DESIGN SCIENCE LABS http://dsl.org/m | Hypermedia, Internet, Linux/GNU bumper stickers,indie rock,rants | Linux: http://dsl.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: A proposal to improve dselect
This is getting a little bit off topic, but is there a working group for making Debian easier to install? Not just dselect, but the documentation, the layout and organization of www.debian.org, the whole works? If there is, I want to get involved with it because I am starting a project now that I've been thinking about for some time: making a custom Debian distribution geared toward writers, artists and other creative types who don't have much knowledge of Linux to start with. I think we're reaching the time where such a thing is possible, what with the quality and scope of the software that's out there. What has to be done now is ease of installation and the whole package maintenance thing, more tutorials (both paper and digital, including interactive, like a training shell perhaps). I know this is a large undertaking -- in the extreme sense, where a Linux/UNIX total beginner buys one of these machines with Linux installed, they're going to need help with administration. Actually, they're going to need someone _else_ to administer it. So I wonder about the feasability of some volunteer Linux administration network, where the end-user has their machine connected to the net via a dialup line and this volunteer network has an admin account on the machine where they can go in and perform routine tasks that need to get done. Or volunteer members get sponsor users who are geographically near them, and only that volunteer has admin access to the machine. Maybe this could be tied in with all the Linux user groups that are sprouting up everwhere, I don't know -- just some open thoughts for debate. m Michael Stutz | DESIGN SCIENCE LABS http://dsl.org/m | Hypermedia, Internet, Linux/GNU bumper stickers,indie rock,rants | Linux: http://dsl.org -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Problem installing with Adaptec 2940 SCSI (fwd)
Hello everyone-- I'm attempting a Debian installation at work on a brand-new machine. It's a Gateway 2000 Pentium Pro with, among other things, an Adaptec AHA-2940 Ultra Wide SCSI controller, two 4GB Seagate Ultra Wide harddisks, an 8x SCSI CD-ROM and a 3com 100mbit Ethernet card. It came with WindowsNT preloaded. The Debian install disks don't seem to have the necessary driver to detect my hard drives. I tried searching this list's archives as well as searching Usenet but I didn't find any answers. Someone suggested I turn off the Dos 1GB partitioning (which I did), and I tried the linux aic7xxx=ultra at the boot prompt. I did notice a few references to the special boot disks in a few Usenet posts, but the Debian ftp site revealed nothing, nor did I find a mention of this in the Install docs. Am I doing something wrong, or is there another bootdisk I could pick up somewhere that could support this? I'm wondering if my Ethernet card will present more problems, too. Would an easier solution be to pop in an old IDE hard drive and 10mbit Ethernet card just to get the system up and running, and then recomile a custom kernel? Thanks, m -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
