Re: difference Debian, solaris, freebsd

2013-08-30 Thread Brad Alexander
Solaris is not open source, it was created by Sun Microsystems, and it is
now owned by Oracle...And all the implied baggage that entails. Oracle is
not terribly friendly to open source or free software, hence their stance
on OpenOffice.org, and mysql. They allowed OOO to languish to the point of
driving developers away from it, which is why it was forked into
LibreOffice. They finally washed their hands of it and gave it to the
Apache foundation. They have gone out of their way to obfuscate security
patches in mysql, and their first action with Solaris was to eliminate the
free versions, causing another fork. There are, as someone stated, projects
like Illumos, which are forks of the last free version of Solaris.

In operation, Solaris has always been slower than Linux, even on native
Sparc hardware. Many things in the OS are either crufty non-GNU tools, such
as tar, which lacks many of the options that GNU tar has (though there are
sites like sunfreeware.com), or they are different for the sake of being
different. Like other commercial unixes, they had to do things differently
to make them unique, so patching is much more painful than a Debian or
RedHat or FreeBSD box.

FreeBSD has, arguably, a better package system in the ports tree. Ports
is/can be configured to do source-based installs of applications. It also
has ZFS, which is arguably the best filesystem available, as long as you
have tons of memory. I don't have a lot of experience with FreeBSD, though
I am starting to experiment with it. FreeBSD is also open source, though
not GPL. It uses the BSD license, which basically states that you can do
anything you want to with the software.

Personally, I would either stick with Linux or try FreeBSD.

And I managed to do this entire email without calling it Slowaris :)


On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 9:15 PM, Rob Owens row...@ptd.net wrote:

 On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 06:15:32PM +0500, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
  what are the major differences btw the three OS.
  Debian, Solaris, Freebsd
  i know some command change and stuff. but architecture wise.
  like unix is propitiatory, and freebst is not not blah blah.
 
  but why one should choose Debian or freebsd over others?
  i am a big fan of debian and i have been using it for years, i have no
  doubt about its stability and performance it is rock solid.
  then what is the reason people might willing to use debian over freebsd
 and
  vise versa
  because both are free.
  stalle. (freebsd unix type)
   all major server applications like samba,postfix etc are available in
 both.
 
 I can't really compare Debian to Solaris or Freebsd because I don't have
 much experience with them.  But one reason I chose Debian over other
 Linux distributions is because of the number of packages available,
 which means I don't have to compile much software, if any.  I suspect
 Debian has more packages available that Solaris or Freebsd do, but I'm
 not sure.

 -Rob



Re: difference Debian, solaris, freebsd

2013-08-30 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Fri, 2013-08-30 at 08:01 -0400, Brad Alexander wrote:
 FreeBSD has, arguably, a better package system in the ports tree.
 Ports is/can be configured to do source-based installs of
 applications.
 
 Personally, I would either stick with Linux or try FreeBSD. 

For Linux, the distro Arch Linux does provide something comparable to
FreeBSD ports.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Build_System

I've got both installed, FreeBSD and Arch Linux, for my needs Linux is
the better choice. What Linux disto the right choice is IMO depends to
the usage. For e.g. CNC or music productions and perhaps many other
things are special Linux distros available. For FreeBSD is also a
pre-build install available, called PC BSD, but the PC BSD community
seems to be very small, so I would test FreeBSD and not PC BSD. Take a
look at the FreeBSD and PC BSD mailing lists.



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Re: difference Debian, solaris, freebsd

2013-08-30 Thread berenger . morel



Le 29.08.2013 19:09, Ralf Mardorf a écrit :

On Thu, 2013-08-29 at 19:00 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
PS: I wouldn't install Debian's FreeBSD, test the real FreeBSD 
first.


PPS: The reason for this is, that there's a FreeBSD community and I
guess there is not a huge Debian GNU/kFreeBSD community, but I might 
be

mistaken.

http://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/


Is not that list including that community? After all, KFreeBSD is now 
an official part of Debian, I think ;)



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difference Debian, solaris, freebsd

2013-08-29 Thread Muhammad Yousuf Khan
what are the major differences btw the three OS.
Debian, Solaris, Freebsd
i know some command change and stuff. but architecture wise.
like unix is propitiatory, and freebst is not not blah blah.

but why one should choose Debian or freebsd over others?
i am a big fan of debian and i have been using it for years, i have no
doubt about its stability and performance it is rock solid.
then what is the reason people might willing to use debian over freebsd and
vise versa
because both are free.
stalle. (freebsd unix type)
 all major server applications like samba,postfix etc are available in both.




Thanks,

myk


Re: difference Debian, solaris, freebsd

2013-08-29 Thread Lars Noodén
On 29.08.2013 16:15, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
 what are the major differences btw the three OS.
 Debian, Solaris, Freebsd
[snip]

Well the most obvious difference is package management.  Aside from that
you can always add GNU utilities to Solaris and FreeBSD so that the
differences from a user perspective can be quite small.

Regards,
/Lars


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Re: difference Debian, solaris, freebsd

2013-08-29 Thread Muhammad Yousuf Khan

 Well the most obvious difference is package management.  Aside from that
 you can always add GNU utilities to Solaris and FreeBSD so that the
 differences from a user perspective can be quite small.


thanks for your response, but i am asking in server perspective. not GUI.
in my opinion Ubuntu/Debian are the best in GUI's however i am more
interested to know about server side think,
for example. samba, postfix, storage stuff, ftp,ssh,http,smb,nfs, etc and
all other things can be achieved in both freebsd and Debian and even in
solaris.
ok lets forget about solaris due to proprietary in nature. lets talk about
opensolaris (illumos) openindiana, omniOS they are also very very stable.
then what is the difference.

Thanks

Myk


Re: difference Debian, solaris, freebsd

2013-08-29 Thread Lars Noodén
On 29.08.2013 17:20, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:

 Well the most obvious difference is package management.  Aside from that
 you can always add GNU utilities to Solaris and FreeBSD so that the
 differences from a user perspective can be quite small.


 thanks for your response, but i am asking in server perspective. not GUI.
 in my opinion Ubuntu/Debian are the best in GUI's however i am more
 interested to know about server side think,

I'm not talking about GUI.  Even without the GUI the underlying package
management systems are different, though they are less different than
they used to be.  Debian uses APT, which I like better.

Regards,
/Lars


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Re: difference Debian, solaris, freebsd

2013-08-29 Thread Georgi Naplatanov

On 08/29/2013 04:15 PM, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:

what are the major differences btw the three OS.
Debian, Solaris, Freebsd
i know some command change and stuff. but architecture wise.
like unix is propitiatory, and freebst is not not blah blah.

but why one should choose Debian or freebsd over others?
i am a big fan of debian and i have been using it for years, i have no
doubt about its stability and performance it is rock solid.
then what is the reason people might willing to use debian over freebsd
and vise versa
because both are free.
stalle. (freebsd unix type)
�all major server applications like samba,postfix etc are available in both.




Thanks,

myk


As you know the big difference is kernel (kernel (parameters) tunning, 
firewall, device file/names, supported file systems and devices etc.)


Other differences are release cycles, community spirit, security 
patches, policy etc.


Best regards
Georgi


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Re: difference Debian, solaris, freebsd

2013-08-29 Thread Zenaan Harkness
On 8/29/13, Muhammad Yousuf Khan sir...@gmail.com wrote:
 what are the major differences btw the three OS.
 Debian, Solaris, Freebsd

I might consider Illumos/community-solaris, for using ZFS (eg for a
SAN) as backing for some other servers or desktops. btrfs and xfs are
catching up though still may be couple years away for some ZFS
features.

Possibly for extra security (if you have the time/personnel), then
OpenBSD (or possibly FreeBSD), could provide a bit more security in
your intranet - also a bit of diversity in OSes (if you have
competency in them) can mean that a targetted attack using a specific
0-day exploit, will not take down all your boxen.

Other than that, Debian is the best, Debian is the greatest, Debian
lives forever, rah rah rah :)

And for the religiously inclined:
N0n3 b3tt3r than D3b14n!! A77 E7s3 Sh477 R0t In H3777!

:)


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Re: difference Debian, solaris, freebsd

2013-08-29 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Thu, 2013-08-29 at 16:30 +0300, Lars Noodén wrote:
 On 29.08.2013 16:15, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
  what are the major differences btw the three OS.
  Debian, Solaris, Freebsd
 [snip]
 
 Well the most obvious difference is package management.  Aside from that
 you can always add GNU utilities to Solaris and FreeBSD so that the
 differences from a user perspective can be quite small.

Yesno :) I've got a FreeBSD install and the kernel is different, e.g. no
ALSA + userspace compared to Linux is outdated. IOW you can not simply
compile something from Linuxworld for FreeBSD installs. While for
FreeBSD there are binary packages available too, the common way is to
use the ports and compile everything yourself, at least I did it and it
takes days to compile everything :). I do not have the time to maintain
FreeBSD, even understanding how to update is beyond my scope, I never
booted FreeBSD within the last month, but I'm unable to delete the
install, since FreeBSD has got a nice philosophy and I'm still
subscribed to FreeBSD lists and read.

I like FreeBSD, what I hate is the filesystem. You need a primary
partition to install it and I never managed to access the filesystem
from Linux.

Catchwords for the file system are partition and slices.

Even a multiboot isn't without issues. Use Linux GRUB2 and then ...

menuentry FreeBSD{
set root=(hd0,msdos1)
chainloader +1
}

... chainload it.

FreeBSD has a good documentation.


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Re: difference Debian, solaris, freebsd

2013-08-29 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Thu, 2013-08-29 at 17:26 +0300, Lars Noodén wrote:
 On 29.08.2013 17:20, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
 
  Well the most obvious difference is package management.  Aside from that
  you can always add GNU utilities to Solaris and FreeBSD so that the
  differences from a user perspective can be quite small.
 
 
  thanks for your response, but i am asking in server perspective. not GUI.
  in my opinion Ubuntu/Debian are the best in GUI's however i am more
  interested to know about server side think,
 
 I'm not talking about GUI.  Even without the GUI the underlying package
 management systems are different, though they are less different than
 they used to be.  Debian uses APT, which I like better.

Another catchword is jails, a kind of chroot.


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Re: difference Debian, solaris, freebsd

2013-08-29 Thread Ralf Mardorf
PS: I wouldn't install Debian's FreeBSD, test the real FreeBSD first.


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Re: difference Debian, solaris, freebsd

2013-08-29 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Thu, 2013-08-29 at 19:00 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 PS: I wouldn't install Debian's FreeBSD, test the real FreeBSD first.

PPS: The reason for this is, that there's a FreeBSD community and I
guess there is not a huge Debian GNU/kFreeBSD community, but I might be
mistaken.

http://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/



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Re: difference Debian, solaris, freebsd

2013-08-29 Thread Miles Fidelman

Zenaan Harkness wrote:

On 8/29/13, Muhammad Yousuf Khan sir...@gmail.com wrote:

what are the major differences btw the three OS.
Debian, Solaris, Freebsd

I might consider Illumos/community-solaris, for using ZFS (eg for a
SAN) as backing for some other servers or desktops. btrfs and xfs are
catching up though still may be couple years away for some ZFS
features.



A lot of people seem to swear by dtrace (Solaris) for low-level 
performance tuning.


Miles Fidelman

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


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Re: difference Debian, solaris, freebsd

2013-08-29 Thread Rob Owens
On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 06:15:32PM +0500, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
 what are the major differences btw the three OS.
 Debian, Solaris, Freebsd
 i know some command change and stuff. but architecture wise.
 like unix is propitiatory, and freebst is not not blah blah.
 
 but why one should choose Debian or freebsd over others?
 i am a big fan of debian and i have been using it for years, i have no
 doubt about its stability and performance it is rock solid.
 then what is the reason people might willing to use debian over freebsd and
 vise versa
 because both are free.
 stalle. (freebsd unix type)
  all major server applications like samba,postfix etc are available in both.
 
I can't really compare Debian to Solaris or Freebsd because I don't have
much experience with them.  But one reason I chose Debian over other
Linux distributions is because of the number of packages available,
which means I don't have to compile much software, if any.  I suspect
Debian has more packages available that Solaris or Freebsd do, but I'm
not sure.

-Rob


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Re: Debian and Freebsd; booloader behaviour

2005-11-20 Thread Andreas Rippl
On Fri, Nov 18, 2005 at 09:04:30AM +0100, Marco Calviani wrote:
 Hi list,
 i would like to install Freebsd 6.0 in a separate partition within my HD in
 which Debian Sid is perfectly running.
 Does anyone had some advice on how to setup the freebsd bootloader during
 installation to enable GRUB (of my Debian box) to recognize the freebsd
 partition?
 Or in a second place how to setup again GRUB after having deleted it for the
 BSD bootloader, if the first one is not possible?
 
 Thanks in advance,
 MC

Hi Marco,

I am using lilo (a 'don't fix what isn't broken' thing), so for that
configuration I'm using 

 other=/dev/hdb3
table=/dev/hdb
label=FreeBSD-5.3

in /etc/lilo.conf, but I found an old entry for grub in
/boot/grub/menu.lst as well:

title FreeBSD 4.9
root (hd0,1,a)
kernel /boot/loader

which you would install with something like 'grub-install /dev/hda' or
some other partition. As far as I remember, when installing FreeBSD, you
can opt for not doing any changes to the boot process. After the
installation you just have to do the changes to your Linux boot manager.

Hth,
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 Key-ID: 0x81073379


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Debian and Freebsd; booloader behaviour

2005-11-18 Thread Marco Calviani
Hi list,
 i would like to install Freebsd 6.0 in a separate partition within my HD in which Debian Sid is perfectly running. 
Does anyone had some advice on how to setup the freebsd bootloader
during installation to enable GRUB (of my Debian box) to recognize the
freebsd partition? 
Or in a second place how to setup again GRUB after having deleted it for the BSD bootloader, if the first one is not possible?

Thanks in advance,
MC


Re: SWAP + Debian i FreeBSD

2003-06-18 Thread Marcin Juszkiewicz
Dnia śro 18. czerwca 2003 03:27, |K a C z Y| napisał:

 Debian raczej nie zajrzy do slices FreeBSD wiec to Debian musi
 udostepnic swap.

Wystarczy przekompilować kernel z opcją BSD partition slices support i 
zobaczy je (o ile będą w BSD FFS).

--
APT: deb http://www.hrw.one.pl/apt/ sid/



Re: SWAP + Debian i FreeBSD

2003-06-18 Thread |K a C z Y|
Marcin Juszkiewicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2003-06-18 10:32]:
  Debian raczej nie zajrzy do slices FreeBSD wiec to Debian musi
  udostepnic swap.
 
 Wystarczy przekompilować kernel z opcją BSD partition slices support i 
 zobaczy je (o ile będą w BSD FFS).

tak to prawda zobaczy je, ale czy będzie mógł skorzystac ze swap'u 
która jest w slices ?

założmy:

/dev/hda1 win
/dev/hda2 debian 
/dev/hda3 FreeBSD
  |- / 
  |- swap
  |- /tmp
  |- /var
  |- /usr

# swapon /dev/hda


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 When you just can't take it anymore, rm -rf /



Re: SWAP + Debian i FreeBSD

2003-06-18 Thread Marcin Juszkiewicz
Dnia śro 18. czerwca 2003 11:25, |K a C z Y| napisał:
 Marcin Juszkiewicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2003-06-18 10:32]:
   Debian raczej nie zajrzy do slices FreeBSD wiec to Debian musi
   udostepnic swap.

  Wystarczy przekompilować kernel z opcją BSD partition slices support i
  zobaczy je (o ile będą w BSD FFS).

 tak to prawda zobaczy je, ale czy będzie mógł skorzystac ze swap'u
 która jest w slices ?

 /dev/hda3 FreeBSD
   |- swap

 # swapon /dev/hda

Jak zabootuje z takiego kernela to będzie widział jakie 'subpartycje' się 
pojawiły i wybierze tą właściwą. I uwierz mi, że to działa - sprawdzałem 
swego czasu czy Linuksa nie da się postawić na BSD slice - niestety kernel ma 
problemy z widzeniem slice-ów niesformatowanych w BSD FFS (UFS) - nie wiem 
jak z BSD swap sobie radzi.

Jednakże swap postawiłbym na normalnej partycji a nie na slice.

--
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Re: SWAP + Debian i FreeBSD

2003-06-17 Thread Marcin Owsiany
On Mon, Jun 16, 2003 at 08:37:47PM +0200, test wrote:
 Mam nietypowe pytanko.
 Używam Debiana oraz zaczołem bawić się z FreeBSD. Nietety dysk dla 
 FreeBSD jest troszkę mały i dla zwiększenia pojemności chciałbym zrobić 
 sobie system plików SWAP na oddzielnym dysku.

Swap to nie system plików :-)

 Czy tego SWAP'a którego utworzę na innym dysku ( 600 MB ) mógłbym używać 
 również dla Debiana? ( Debian jest zainstalowany na innym dysku ) czy 
 Debian również będzie mi obsługiwał dysk ze SWAP'em od FreeBSD no i na 
 odwrót.

Możesz używać tej samej partycji, ale na 99% format obszaru wymiany nie
będzie zgodny, więc będziesz musiał przy ładowaniu systemu (ze skryptów
startowych) inicjalizować swap dla właściwego systemu. Było to kiedyś
opisane w jednym HOWTO, choć dotyczyło współdzielenia obszaru wymiany
między linuksem a windows.

powodzenia

Marcin
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Re: SWAP + Debian i FreeBSD

2003-06-17 Thread Galimedes
wiec tak z moich doswiadczen jesli swamp nie jest na partycji rozszerzonej
to bedzie dzialac na freeBSD jak i na debianie nie zale¿nie od iloci dyskow 

---Original Message---

Witam

Mam nietypowe pytanko.
U¿ywam Debiana oraz zaczo³em bawiæ siê z FreeBSD. Nietety dysk dla
FreeBSD jest troszkê ma³y i dla zwiêkszenia pojemno¶ci chcia³bym zrobiæ
sobie system plików SWAP na oddzielnym dysku.
Teraz pytanie:
Czy tego SWAP'a którego utworzê na innym dysku ( 600 MB ) móg³bym u¿ywaæ
równie¿ dla Debiana? ( Debian jest zainstalowany na innym dysku ) czy
Debian równie¿ bêdzie mi obs³ugiwa³ dysk ze SWAP'em od FreeBSD no i na
odwrót.
Pozdrawiam
Ma³y
P.S. Zaznaczam, ¿e systemy nie bêd± chodzi³y obydwa naraz tylko raz tego
bêdê u¿ywa³ a kolejny raz drugiego




Re: SWAP + Debian i FreeBSD

2003-06-17 Thread Mirek Grochowski
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, test wrote:

 Witam

 Mam nietypowe pytanko.
 Używam Debiana oraz zaczołem bawić się z FreeBSD. Nietety dysk dla
 FreeBSD jest troszkę mały i dla zwiększenia pojemności chciałbym zrobić
 sobie system plików SWAP na oddzielnym dysku.
 Teraz pytanie:
 Czy tego SWAP'a którego utworzę na innym dysku ( 600 MB ) mógłbym używać
 również dla Debiana? ( Debian jest zainstalowany na innym dysku ) czy
 Debian również będzie mi obsługiwał dysk ze SWAP'em od FreeBSD no i na
 odwrót.
Powinno sie dac. Na tldp.org znajdziesz howtoo odnosnie takiej operacji z
win+linux, mysle, ze powinno wystarczyc.

 Pozdrawiam
 Mały
 P.S. Zaznaczam, że systemy nie będą chodziły obydwa naraz tylko raz tego
   będę używał a kolejny raz drugiego.

Powaznie? A ja myslalem, ze obydwa na raz odpalisz :-
A moze ten oddzielny dysk jest w innej maszynie, to by zminilo postac
rzeczy.

Pozdrawiam
-- 
mirek



Re: SWAP + Debian i FreeBSD

2003-06-17 Thread |K a C z Y|
test [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2003-06-18 02:22]:
 Czy tego SWAP'a którego utworzę na innym dysku ( 600 MB ) 

spory swap 

 mógłbym używać również dla Debiana ? 

no 

# swapon /dev/ad0s6 (linux /dev/hda6)
# swapinfo

automatyczna aktywacja to oczywiscie edycja pliku /etc/fstab

obojetnie czy swap bedzie na partycji rozszerzonej czy primary 
FreeBSD powinien być w stanie do niej sięgnać.

 Debian również będzie mi obsługiwał dysk ze SWAP'em od FreeBSD no i na 
 odwrót.

Debian raczej nie zajrzy do slices FreeBSD wiec to Debian musi
udostepnic swap.


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   Don't let anybody else use it and get a new one every six months.



Re: port de debian para FreeBSD

2003-05-05 Thread Matias
El Mon, 5 May 2003 01:54:16 +0200
Hue-Bond [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:

 begin  Matias  meditation, on [EMAIL PROTECTED]:56:28(-0300):
 
  Visita http://www.debian.org/ports/freebsd/
 No sé si fue en relación a freebsd o netbsd, pero leí que los
 desarrolladores estaban tan ocupados que no tenían tiempo de mantener la
 página al día. Que sin embargo el proyecto seguía adelante.
 
 De todas formas, en ports/netbsd también hay cosas de freebsd: algunos
 enlaces que funcionan (comprobado ;^)) y también la dirección de la lista de
 correo donde seguramente te darán información más al día.
 

Gracias por el dato, en efecto todo Debian *BSD se está tratando en 
netbsd (más
especificamente en la lista de correo que figura en /ports/netbsd).










-- 
Atentamente, yo Matías
Nunca hay libertad en una invación.



Re: port de debian para FreeBSD

2003-05-04 Thread Hue-Bond
begin  Matias  meditation, on [EMAIL PROTECTED]:56:28(-0300):

 Visita http://www.debian.org/ports/freebsd/

   He pasado varias veces en estos últimos meses, pero la última noticia 
 es de
abril del año pasado. Aparte, el enlace que ponen para que te bajes los
paquetes, es un hermoso 404.

No sé si fue en relación a freebsd o netbsd, pero leí que los
desarrolladores estaban tan ocupados que no tenían tiempo de mantener la
página al día. Que sin embargo el proyecto seguía adelante.

De todas formas, en ports/netbsd también hay cosas de freebsd: algunos
enlaces que funcionan (comprobado ;^)) y también la dirección de la lista de
correo donde seguramente te darán información más al día.


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Re: port de debian para FreeBSD

2003-05-03 Thread Hue-Bond
begin  Matías nnss  meditation, on [EMAIL PROTECTED]:16:02(-0300):

   ?Alguien tiene alguna idea en que esta el port de Debian para FreeBSD?

¿A qué te refieres con en que esta?  :^?

Visita http://www.debian.org/ports/freebsd/


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port de debian para FreeBSD

2003-05-02 Thread Matías nnss
Hola:
?Alguien tiene alguna idea en que esta el port de Debian para FreeBSD?







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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-18 Thread georges mariano
On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:46:38 +0200
Rénald CASAGRAUDE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On mercredi, juillet 17, 2002, at 12:23 , Alain Tesio wrote:

  release, rien ! Des liens ? S'il y a du boulot il doit il y
  avoir des traces ?
 
 Demande aux principaux intéressés :
 Theo de Raadt http://www.theos.com/deraadt/
 
 Ou pose la question à une ML OpenBSD... non ?

Ça ne prouvera rien. s'il existe une tâche de ce type les infos
doivent être évidemment facilement accessibles.

Alain a raison (au moins de faire la remarque). J'ai participé à une
réunion (plutôt sérieuse) où la même question a été posée à un
développeur OpenBSD et la réponse a été aussi ... floue.

 Il n'y aurait pas des changelogs ? le fait de syncroniser
 les sources de la ditribution, ne te donne pas une idée des
 modifs' ?

Globalement, rien de plus que le développement usuel open-source
(iteratif, par plusieurs personnes avec des outils de synchro)

C'est en fait un simplement glissement de communication, tout le
monde fait de l'audit de code (oui, oui, comme Mr Jourdain). Le
problème c'est que ce mot peut être interprété de manière faible (un
site de rapport de bug fait l'affaire) ou de manière forte (et il faut
ce qu'Alain recherche). Le plus simple c'est encore de ne pas dire
audit ;-).

Pour répondre à la question, suffit juste de donner un pointeur.
Tout autre réponse est du noyage de poisson.

A+
 
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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-18 Thread Rénald CASAGRAUDE

On jeudi, juillet 18, 2002, at 11:22 , georges mariano wrote:


Demande aux principaux intéressés :
Theo de Raadt http://www.theos.com/deraadt/

Ou pose la question à une ML OpenBSD... non ?


Ça ne prouvera rien. s'il existe une tâche de ce type les infos
doivent être évidemment facilement accessibles.


Je sais bien qu'il faut plus que des parôles pour en être
convaincu ! Justement, il faudrait demander aux principaux
interressés de justifier les termes avec lesquelles ils
qualifient leur distribution, se serait plus simple non ?

R.


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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-18 Thread georges mariano
On Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:35:50 +0200
Rénald CASAGRAUDE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Ça ne prouvera rien. s'il existe une tâche de ce type les infos
  doivent être évidemment facilement accessibles.
 
 Je sais bien qu'il faut plus que des parôles pour en être
 convaincu ! Justement, il faudrait demander aux principaux
 interressés de justifier les termes avec lesquelles ils
 qualifient leur distribution, se serait plus simple non ?

Ben c'est ce que je voulais dire ... ;-)

Surtout qu'après avoir utilisé le mot ronflant d'audit de code, une
fois la présentation terminée, l'assitance se dit ben pas de quoi en
faire un plat, ils font comme tout le monde... 
Et chacun repart de son côté en se disant que chez OpenBSD ils sont
fortiche côté vocabulaire, mais bon.

C'est dommage.

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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-18 Thread Sylvain Sauvage
Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:44:47 +0100, Yves Rutschle a écrit :
 On Wed, Jul 17, 2002 at 08:48:34AM +0200, Patrice Karatchentzeff wrote:
  La cathédrale et le bazar, cela ne te rappelle rien ?
 
 La dernière fois que j'ai entendu parler de  construction de
 cathédrale, c'était Notre Dame de Paris. La construction a
 duré 1 siècle environ, ce qui implique 4 générations
 d'artisans, et combien d'architectes, dont les idées
 différentes se sont trouvée accolées et mélangées?
 
 Dans la mesure où la plupart des cathédrales européennes
 sont dans le même cas, je ne pense pas que la métaphore de
 la cathédrale et du bazaar tienne debout.
 
 /Y - Je sais, tout le monde s'en fout.

troll léger
  Vous avez déjà vu la cathédrale de Bauvais ?
  Elle avait tendance à s'effondrer, alors ils ont rajouté des piliers et
  mis des poutres en bois -- sans trop savoir si ça servirait : personne
  n'a jamais osé enlevé les poutres « temporaires ».

  La métaphore devient dangereuse pour la communication...
/troll léger

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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-17 Thread Patrice Karatchentzeff
Le Wed, 17 Jul 2002 00:23:24 +0200
[EMAIL PROTECTED] écrivait :

[...]

 Il y a un truc qui m'énerve que openbsd, c'est que j'entends toujours
 parler d'audit de code, mais que je n'ai jamais trouvé un document
 (pas de lien à partir du paragraphe security sur leur site) qui
 explique qui est responsable de quel code, qui a fait quoi, quel code
 a été audité, au moins un état d'avancement et des parties pas encore
 auditée suiteà une release, rien ! Des liens ? S'il y a du boulot il
 doit il y avoir des traces ?

chuuutt Les BSD ont un développement fermé : il faut faire partie du
sérail pour savoir ;-)

La cathédrale et le bazar, cela ne te rappelle rien ?

PK

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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-17 Thread Yves Rutschle
On Wed, Jul 17, 2002 at 08:48:34AM +0200, Patrice Karatchentzeff wrote:
 La cathédrale et le bazar, cela ne te rappelle rien ?

La dernière fois que j'ai entendu parler de  construction de
cathédrale, c'était Notre Dame de Paris. La construction a
duré 1 siècle environ, ce qui implique 4 générations
d'artisans, et combien d'architectes, dont les idées
différentes se sont trouvée accolées et mélangées?

Dans la mesure où la plupart des cathédrales européennes
sont dans le même cas, je ne pense pas que la métaphore de
la cathédrale et du bazaar tienne debout.

/Y - Je sais, tout le monde s'en fout.


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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-17 Thread Rénald CASAGRAUDE

On mercredi, juillet 17, 2002, at 12:23 , Alain Tesio wrote:


Il y a un truc qui m'énerve que openbsd, c'est que j'entends
toujours parler d'audit de code, mais que je n'ai jamais trouvé
un document (pas de lien à partir du paragraphe security sur
leur site) qui explique qui est responsable de quel code, qui
a fait quoi, quel code a été audité, au moins un état
d'avancement et des parties pas encore auditée suite à une
release, rien ! Des liens ? S'il y a du boulot il doit il y
avoir des traces ?


Demande aux principaux intéressés :
Theo de Raadt http://www.theos.com/deraadt/

Ou pose la question à une ML OpenBSD... non ?

Il n'y aurait pas des changelogs ? le fait de syncroniser
les sources de la ditribution, ne te donne pas une idée des
modifs' ?

R.


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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Patrice Karatchentzeff
Le Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:28:22 +0200
[EMAIL PROTECTED] écrivait :

[...]

 D'apres ce que j'ai lu, FreeBSD semble etre reputée pour sa stabilité,
 

ouiais... tente de décharger le module son quand tu écoutes un morceau
de musique et tu verras comment c'est stable...

Il semble que le côté stabilité soit plus de la légende urbaine qu'autre
chose : les études qui t'affirment le contraire sont toutes de vieilles
études avec de vieux noyaux Linux. Les nouveaux n'ont pas à rougir... au
contraire.

Donc, si ton seul soucis est la stabilité, tu peux très largement garder
Debian : tu auras un serveur stable et facilement maintenable.

[...]

 Je m'imagine bien qu'en posant la question ici, la reponse sera 
 pro-debian, mais si qqun a un avis sur la question l'utilisateur sans 
 grande experience que je suis lui sera reconnaissant ;-)


Mon expérience en la matière se résume seulement à la fréquentation de
fcold...

PK

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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Erwan David
Le Tue 16/07/2002, Patrice Karatchentzeff disait
 Le Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:28:22 +0200
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] écrivait :
 
 [...]
 
  D'apres ce que j'ai lu, FreeBSD semble etre reputée pour sa stabilité,
  
 
 ouiais... tente de décharger le module son quand tu écoutes un morceau
 de musique et tu verras comment c'est stable...

Sous Unix root a tous les droits y compris celuid e se tirer dans le
pied. Après...


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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Yves Rutschle
On Tue, Jul 16, 2002 at 09:08:22AM +0200, Erwan David wrote:
  ouiais... tente de décharger le module son quand tu écoutes un morceau
  de musique et tu verras comment c'est stable...
 
 Sous Unix root a tous les droits y compris celuid e se tirer dans le
 pied. Après...

Non non, Linux fait également baby-sitter: tu peux pas
retirer un module en utilisation, même si tu es root. C'est
pour ça que Linux est distribué avec Unix pour les nuls,
sans doute ;)

/Y


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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Nicolas Kowalski
Patrice Karatchentzeff [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 ouiais... tente de décharger le module son quand tu écoutes un morceau
 de musique et tu verras comment c'est stable...

Tu écoutes souvent de la musique sur un routeur/firewall :-) ?


 Il semble que le côté stabilité soit plus de la légende urbaine qu'autre
 chose : les études qui t'affirment le contraire sont toutes de vieilles
 études avec de vieux noyaux Linux. Les nouveaux n'ont pas à rougir... au
 contraire.

Tout dépend de ce que fait ce serveur. Pour un routeur, je pense que
GNU/Linux ou FreeBSD, c'est un peu kifkif, même si je n'ai
malheureusement pas beaucoup d'expérience dans ce domaine.  Pour
d'autres choses (comme NFS), c'est discutable.

Nicolas.


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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Charles Goyard
Ainsi parlait Stephane ISNARD :
 
 D'apres ce que j'ai lu, FreeBSD semble etre reputée pour sa stabilité, 

Il me semble que la pile tcp/ip de FreeBSD est plus performante que
celle de Linux (du moins la dernière fois que j'ai lu un comparatif). De
plus, le support d'IPv6 est moins bordélique. Ce qui pour un routeur
peut-être important.

-- 
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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Fabien Penso

Charles a écrit : 

  D'apres ce que j'ai lu, FreeBSD semble etre reputée pour sa stabilité, 

  Il me semble que la pile tcp/ip de FreeBSD est plus performante que
  celle de Linux (du moins la dernière fois que j'ai lu un comparatif). De
  plus, le support d'IPv6 est moins bordélique. Ce qui pour un routeur
  peut-être important.

Ce n'est pas l'avis de Harald Welte avec qui j'ai passé du temps aux lsm
(développeur de netfilter), d'après lui celle de Linux est bien plus
performante. Bon je vais pas faire un roman de ce qu'il m'a dit, mais
c'était juste pour indiquer que les goûts et les couleurs... :-)

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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread frederic massot
Fabien Penso wrote:
 
 Charles a écrit :
 
   D'apres ce que j'ai lu, FreeBSD semble etre reputée pour sa stabilité,
 
   Il me semble que la pile tcp/ip de FreeBSD est plus performante que
   celle de Linux (du moins la dernière fois que j'ai lu un comparatif). De
   plus, le support d'IPv6 est moins bordélique. Ce qui pour un routeur
   peut-être important.
 
 Ce n'est pas l'avis de Harald Welte avec qui j'ai passé du temps aux lsm
 (développeur de netfilter), d'après lui celle de Linux est bien plus
 performante. Bon je vais pas faire un roman de ce qu'il m'a dit, mais
 c'était juste pour indiquer que les goûts et les couleurs... :-)
 

C'est pas la pile de FreeBSD qui est zéro copie, et qui sature un brin
giga ethernet ?

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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Xavier Venient
Le mardi 16 juillet, Fabien Penso a tapoté :
   Il me semble que la pile tcp/ip de FreeBSD est plus performante que
   celle de Linux (du moins la dernière fois que j'ai lu un comparatif). De
   plus, le support d'IPv6 est moins bordélique. Ce qui pour un routeur
   peut-être important.
 
 Ce n'est pas l'avis de Harald Welte avec qui j'ai passé du temps aux lsm
 (développeur de netfilter), d'après lui celle de Linux est bien plus
 performante. Bon je vais pas faire un roman de ce qu'il m'a dit, mais
 c'était juste pour indiquer que les goûts et les couleurs... :-)

Oui, un développeur OpenBSD me disait la même chose...

Bon en gros chacun prèche pour sa chapelle, donc aucun intérêt.
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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Yves Rutschle
 C'est pas la pile de FreeBSD qui est zéro copie, et qui sature un brin
 giga ethernet ?

Zero copie == DMA en userland?

Linux ne supporte pas encore ça, je pensais pas que
quelqu'un d'autre le supportait?

/Y


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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Benoit . Lucazeau
 Bon en gros chacun prèche pour sa chapelle, donc aucun intérêt.

certainement mais pour avoir joué avec un freeBSD chez moi pendant quelques 
temps, il me faut reconnaitre que le systeme de packaging est tres performant 
et avec les ports on a vite les dernieres versions.

Apres de mon point de vue de petit scarabée, c'est plus ma compétence qui joue 
sur la stabilité de l'OS que ses défauts.

Benoit


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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Erwan David
Le Tue 16/07/2002, Fabien Penso disait
 
 Charles a écrit : 
 
   D'apres ce que j'ai lu, FreeBSD semble etre reputée pour sa stabilité, 
 
   Il me semble que la pile tcp/ip de FreeBSD est plus performante que
   celle de Linux (du moins la dernière fois que j'ai lu un comparatif). De
   plus, le support d'IPv6 est moins bordélique. Ce qui pour un routeur
   peut-être important.
 
 Ce n'est pas l'avis de Harald Welte avec qui j'ai passé du temps aux lsm
 (développeur de netfilter), d'après lui celle de Linux est bien plus
 performante. Bon je vais pas faire un roman de ce qu'il m'a dit, mais
 c'était juste pour indiquer que les goûts et les couleurs... :-)

Justement la syntaxe ipf est compréhensible contraiement à iptables...



-- 
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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Laurent Mazet
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:07:39 +0200 (MEST)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Bon en gros chacun prèche pour sa chapelle, donc aucun intérêt.
 
 certainement mais pour avoir joué avec un freeBSD chez moi pendant quelques 
 temps, il me faut reconnaitre que le systeme de packaging est tres performant 
 et avec les ports on a vite les dernieres versions.
 

Le seul probleme, c'est qu'il y a deux systemes de packages :
 - les pre-compiles : la mise a jour viens avec la release
 - les ports : un bel arbre CVS qu'il est possible de synchroniser. Seul bemol, 
tu dois recompiler le package (les makefiles sont tres bien faits et ca 
s'installe tout seul).

J'ai actuellement un P90 sous FreeBSD et, avec si peu de puissance, les ports 
ne sont pas tres agreables.

Sinon, au niveau de l'OS :
 - la parametrisation du kernel est extremement claire (un  fichier texte 
facilement lisible pour configurer le kernel)
 - j'ai eu l'impression d'avoir une machine un peu plus reactive que sous Linux 
(c'est quand meme tres subjectif).

Laurent
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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Jacques Foury
En réponse à Stephane ISNARD [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Bonjour,
 
 Bon, je sens que je vasi me faire allumer quand je vais poser la 
 question, mais je me lance:
 
 j'utilise Debian depuis qq temps et je dois que je l'apprecie pas mal du
 tout, meme si finalement je me dis que je n'ai jamais autant pratiqué 
 d'autres distributions ...
 Pour des raisons diverses, je dois monter un routeur et un firewall, et
 le technicien auquel je fais, en general, référence me dis que le mieux
 et que je monte une machine avec ... FreeBSD !

mon expérience avec OpenBSD m'a montré que cet OS est d'une stabilité
remarquable, et il est vraiment très blindé.

Mais il est parfaitement possible que FreeBSD soit aussi bien.

Il est de notoriété dans le milieu que les *BSD sont mieux pour les
utilisations comme boîtes réseau, leurs couches étant soit disant mieux faites
dans ce domaine.

Maintenant, le mieux est d'utiliser ce qu'on maîtrise le mieux, en termes de
sécurité. Si tu mets FreeBSD mais que tu ne sais pas le tenir à jour, laisse
tomber, mets une debian !

My 2 €uro-centimes.

---
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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Fabien Penso

Erwan a écrit : 

   D'apres ce que j'ai lu, FreeBSD semble etre reputée pour sa stabilité, 
  
   Il me semble que la pile tcp/ip de FreeBSD est plus performante que
   celle de Linux (du moins la dernière fois que j'ai lu un comparatif). De
   plus, le support d'IPv6 est moins bordélique. Ce qui pour un routeur
   peut-être important.
  
  Ce n'est pas l'avis de Harald Welte avec qui j'ai passé du temps aux lsm
  (développeur de netfilter), d'après lui celle de Linux est bien plus
  performante. Bon je vais pas faire un roman de ce qu'il m'a dit, mais
  c'était juste pour indiquer que les goûts et les couleurs... :-)

  Justement la syntaxe ipf est compréhensible contraiement à iptables...

Je trouve celle d'iptables très bien, mais bon chacun voit midi à sa
porte. En tout cas lors d'une conférence sur ipf aux lsm, le
conférencier a je crois été légèrement remis en place par harald
lorsqu'il répétait des rumeurs sur netfilter comme quoi il faisait pas
ci ou ca alors qu'il le fait depuis bien longtemps.

J'ai regardé la conférence de 2h sur netfilter, on se rend compte alors
de la puissance du truc, à voir si vous pouvez (il en fera une à
http://www.linux-kongress.org/).

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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Lucas Nussbaum
On Mon, Jul 15, 2002 at 11:28:22PM +0200, Stephane ISNARD [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 j'utilise Debian depuis qq temps et je dois que je l'apprecie pas mal du 
 tout, meme si finalement je me dis que je n'ai jamais autant pratiqué 
 d'autres distributions ...
 Pour des raisons diverses, je dois monter un routeur et un firewall, et 
 le technicien auquel je fais, en general, référence me dis que le mieux 
 et que je monte une machine avec ... FreeBSD !

J'ai utilisé FreeBSD pendant 2 ans sur mon PC (utilisation avec X et
tout). Je suis passé à Debian il y a 2 mois, et j'avoue ne pas regretter
du tout. Le système de ports (ou de packages, cela revient au même) gère
très mal les dépendances, et on se retrouve au bout de quelques mois
avec un système complètement pourri.

Maintenant, si ton but est de configurer une machine minimaliste qui ne
sert que de routeur/firewall, pourquoi ne pas essayer OpenBSD ? Je
l'utilise sur ma passerelle, et la syntaxe de PF est un vrai plaisir 
(attention, pas d'IPFilter dans OpenBSD, mais un Packet Filter fait
maison suite à des problemes de licence d'IPF qui est réputé bien plus
rapide).

Si en plus tu ne connais pas cet OS, ca te permettra de découvrir
qqchose de très différent de GNU/Linux. Concernant les mises à jour,
elles se font facilement, soit en réinstallant les .tgz du systeme à
chaque nouvelle version (ca va tres vite), soit en recompilant à partir
des sources que tu récupères via CVS (il est qd meme conseillé de les
avoir puisqu'il faut svt pouvoir patcher un ptit truc).

Et point de vue sécurité, One remote hole in the default install, in
nearly 6 years!, c'est tout de même pas dramatique.

lucas


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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Xavier Venient
Le mardi 16 juillet, Fabien Penso a tapoté :
 Erwan a écrit : 
   Justement la syntaxe ipf est compréhensible contraiement à iptables...
 
 Je trouve celle d'iptables très bien, mais bon chacun voit midi à sa
 porte. En tout cas lors d'une conférence sur ipf aux lsm, le
 conférencier a je crois été légèrement remis en place par harald
 lorsqu'il répétait des rumeurs sur netfilter comme quoi il faisait pas
 ci ou ca alors qu'il le fait depuis bien longtemps.

Faux. La personne (dont j'ai oublié le nom) parlait d'OpenBSD.
Ce qu'il présentait était un infamme troll, qui n'était pas accés sur le
filtrage de paquets mais sur les deux systèmes (un beau troll, mais
*vraiment* trop gros).
Et le gars de netfilter a simplement dit qu'il ne voulait pas de
polémiques, donc il ne répondait pas.


 J'ai regardé la conférence de 2h sur netfilter, on se rend compte alors
 de la puissance du truc, à voir si vous pouvez (il en fera une à
 http://www.linux-kongress.org/).

Dix minutes sur pf, et on se rend compte de ce qui rulez /troll
-- 
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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Erwan David
Le Tue 16/07/2002, Fabien Penso disait

 Je trouve celle d'iptables très bien, mais bon chacun voit midi à sa
 porte. En tout cas lors d'une conférence sur ipf aux lsm, le
 conférencier a je crois été légèrement remis en place par harald
 lorsqu'il répétait des rumeurs sur netfilter comme quoi il faisait pas
 ci ou ca alors qu'il le fait depuis bien longtemps.

Appeler une commande par règle,avec obliagation d'appeler dans le bon
ordre pour avoir le bon oprdre de règle plutôt qu'avoir un fichier de
configuration me semble une aberration anti-ergonomique, à peu près
aussi grosse que la métaphore du bureau. Il est vrai que celle-ci a
aussi beaucoup de succès...

-- 
Erwan


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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-16 Thread Alain Tesio
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:34:17 +0200 (MEST)
Jacques Foury [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Il est de notoriété dans le milieu que les

Ben voyons, c'est du niveau de comparaison des marques de voiture ou
des équipes de foot.

 leurs couches étant soit disant mieux faites dans ce domaine.

Ca commence à dater un peu comme argument ca

Kurt Seifried n'a même pas osé en parler dans son comparatif
why linux will never be as secure as openbsd (et vice-versa)

Il y a un truc qui m'énerve que openbsd, c'est que j'entends toujours
parler d'audit de code, mais que je n'ai jamais trouvé un document
(pas de lien à partir du paragraphe security sur leur site) qui explique
qui est responsable de quel code, qui a fait quoi, quel code a été audité,
au moins un état d'avancement et des parties pas encore auditée suite
à une release, rien ! Des liens ? S'il y a du boulot il doit il y avoir des 
traces ?

Alain


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Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-15 Thread Stephane ISNARD

Bonjour,

Bon, je sens que je vasi me faire allumer quand je vais poser la 
question, mais je me lance:


j'utilise Debian depuis qq temps et je dois que je l'apprecie pas mal du 
tout, meme si finalement je me dis que je n'ai jamais autant pratiqué 
d'autres distributions ...
Pour des raisons diverses, je dois monter un routeur et un firewall, et 
le technicien auquel je fais, en general, référence me dis que le mieux 
et que je monte une machine avec ... FreeBSD !


D'apres ce que j'ai lu, FreeBSD semble etre reputée pour sa stabilité, 
mais voila, j'ai besoin de qqch qui se met a jour facilement (en cas que 
mon remplacant soit aps un adepte de Linux ...), et en plus je me dis 
que au niveau de la sécurité, l'apt-get est qd meme sacrement pratique ...


Je m'imagine bien qu'en posant la question ici, la reponse sera 
pro-debian, mais si qqun a un avis sur la question l'utilisateur sans 
grande experience que je suis lui sera reconnaissant ;-)


merci d'avance

stéphane
utilisateur concquis (faite pas gaffe à l'ortograffe ! ;-)  )


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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-15 Thread Thomas Nemeth
Le 15.07.02, Stephane ISNARD a tapoté :

| Bonjour,

'soir.


| Pour des raisons diverses, je dois monter un routeur et un firewall, et
| le technicien auquel je fais, en general, référence me dis que le mieux
| et que je monte une machine avec ... FreeBSD !

Hum. Tu peux installer la Debian/FreeBSD si tu y tiens ;-) Les
travaux sont en cours.


| merci d'avance

Avec plaisir :)


Thomas
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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-15 Thread Philippe Coulonges
Le Lundi 15 Juillet 2002 23:35, Thomas Nemeth a écrit :
 Le 15.07.02, Stephane ISNARD a tapoté :

 | Pour des raisons diverses, je dois monter un routeur et un firewall, et
 | le technicien auquel je fais, en general, référence me dis que le mieux
 | et que je monte une machine avec ... FreeBSD !

   Hum. Tu peux installer la Debian/FreeBSD si tu y tiens ;-) Les
   travaux sont en cours.

Tu peux aussi installer Debian/Hurd, personne ne l'a jamais craquée ;-).

A+
CPHIL

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serez heureux et si vous tombez sur une mauvaise, vous deviendrez philosophe, 
ce qui est excellent pour l'homme.
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Re: Debian vs FreeBSD

2002-07-15 Thread Thomas Nemeth
Le 15.07.02, Philippe Coulonges a tapoté :

| Le Lundi 15 Juillet 2002 23:35, Thomas Nemeth a écrit :
|  Le 15.07.02, Stephane ISNARD a tapoté :
| 
|  | Pour des raisons diverses, je dois monter un routeur et un firewall, et
|  | le technicien auquel je fais, en general, référence me dis que le mieux
|  | et que je monte une machine avec ... FreeBSD !
| 
|  Hum. Tu peux installer la Debian/FreeBSD si tu y tiens ;-) Les
|  travaux sont en cours.
|
| Tu peux aussi installer Debian/Hurd, personne ne l'a jamais craquée ;-).

JCD m'a affirmé que chez lui, ça marche ®©(tm) :)


Thomas
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Re: Debian and FreeBSD - RESOLVED

2001-06-07 Thread burningclown

Thanks to -ALL- who offered help with this problem. I successfully used a
bootdisk of GNU parted to resize my /dev/hda3 to make room for FreeBSD,
then created a /dev/hda4. I re-ran lilo as parted suggested, rebooted,
then used fdisk to change the type on /dev/hda4 to BSD/386.

It all went without a hitch. All my data is intact, etc, etc. and I'm
ready to install FreeBSD.

Fun!

Glenn Becker

++
http://www.burningclown.com
Everyone's Portal to Nothing At All
++



Re: Debian and FreeBSD

2001-06-04 Thread Dragos Delcea
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 All,
 
 This is a return to an oldie I started some time ago.
 
 Now I have FreeBSD on hand, I'd like to install it 'next to' Linux.
 There's a FreeBSD + Linux HOWTO, and it answers some questions, but:
 
 I'm exploring GNU parted for partition resizing of my 30G hard drive. I
 can it seems resize my current /dev/hda3 partition (my main Linux
 partition) and create a new /dev/hda4 partition to hold FreeBSD, however
 parted doesn't -seem- to be able to create partitions of type BSD/386,
 which is what is needed for FreeBSD.
 
 The filesystem types which parted is able to create are: ext2, FAT, hfs,
 linux-swap, ntfs, reiserfs, hp-ufs, sun-ufs. I have read (in the Linux +
 FreeBSD mini-HOWTO and elsewhere) that FreeBSD is type UFS (the BSD/386
 label being more ... specific? would that be accurate?). But ... which
 type? And how do I get from one of the UFSs that parted allows me to
 create to the BSD/386 partition that I need?
 
 Am I missing something obvious? Sorry, it's late and I'm tired. Would be
 interested to hear from anyone who has done this.
 
 Thanks,
 
 Glenn Becker

I did that (Linux + FreeBSD), but I was using fdisk.
Hope this helps.

Regards

Dragos
Bucharest, Romania



Debian and FreeBSD

2001-06-03 Thread burningclown

All,

This is a return to an oldie I started some time ago.

Now I have FreeBSD on hand, I'd like to install it 'next to' Linux.
There's a FreeBSD + Linux HOWTO, and it answers some questions, but:

I'm exploring GNU parted for partition resizing of my 30G hard drive. I
can it seems resize my current /dev/hda3 partition (my main Linux
partition) and create a new /dev/hda4 partition to hold FreeBSD, however
parted doesn't -seem- to be able to create partitions of type BSD/386,
which is what is needed for FreeBSD.

The filesystem types which parted is able to create are: ext2, FAT, hfs,
linux-swap, ntfs, reiserfs, hp-ufs, sun-ufs. I have read (in the Linux +
FreeBSD mini-HOWTO and elsewhere) that FreeBSD is type UFS (the BSD/386
label being more ... specific? would that be accurate?). But ... which
type? And how do I get from one of the UFSs that parted allows me to
create to the BSD/386 partition that I need?

Am I missing something obvious? Sorry, it's late and I'm tired. Would be
interested to hear from anyone who has done this.

Thanks,

Glenn Becker

++
http://www.burningclown.com
Everyone's Portal to Nothing At All
++





Re: can't install debian after freebsd?

2001-05-06 Thread Osamu Aoki
On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 09:16:59PM +0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 normal   debian installing program
 /dev/hda1 --/dev/hda1
 /dev/hda2(freebsd)--??
 /dev/hda3
 /dev/hda5-/dev/hda8
 /dev/hda6-/dev/hda9
Yep.  I think I saw similar thing at one point.  That made me zap my
FreeBSD and installed another Linux :-)

I thought Linus fdisk and kernel numbered these extended partitions/BSD
slice in different order, if I remember correct.  I do not even remember
that was RH or debian.

By the way, tool to hide free BSD partition?  I think fdisk on Debian
boot/root disk should be the one.  If you use IDEPCI disk set, it
requires 2 disks to boot Linus. (This is not interesting.)

Well that is not real solution.  Some boot loader has hiding feature for
stupid DOS/WIN.  They may be able to use it or hacked for this end.

GRUB may do this. (After all GNU official swiss army booter)

GAG had some self configuration but I forgot all. (Cute graphical boot
manager, self contained in boot sector only)

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+  My debian quick-reference, http://www.aokiconsulting.com/quick/+



Re: Re[2]: can't install debian after freebsd?

2001-05-06 Thread Dehui Peng
Hi,

I had the same problem before. cfdisk does have some
problems. you might want to install debian without
swap and then create/configure swap manually. I
installed win2k/freebsd 4.2/debian-kernel-2.4 in my
own machine successfully.

Dehui

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Hello Carel,
 
Device BootStart   EndBlocks   Id 
 System
 /dev/hda1   * 1   382   3068383+   b 
 Win95 FAT32
 /dev/hda3   702  1020   2562367+  a5 
 BSD/386
 /dev/hda4  1021  4437  27447052+   5 
 Extended
 /dev/hda5  1021  1275   20482566 
 FAT16
 /dev/hda6  1276  1785   4096543+   b 
 Win95 FAT32
 /dev/hda7  1786  2231   3582463+   b 
 Win95 FAT32
 /dev/hda8  2232  2613   3068383+   b 
 Win95 FAT32
 /dev/hda9  2614  2630136521   82 
 Linux swap
 /dev/hda10 2631  2995   2931831   83 
 Linux
 /dev/hda11 2996  3314   2562336   83 
 Linux
 /dev/hda12 3315  3557   1951866   83 
 Linux
 /dev/hda13 3558  3876   2562336   83 
 Linux
 /dev/hda14 3877  4194   2554303+  83 
 Linux
 /dev/hda15 4195  4437   1951866   83 
 Linux
 
 I mean debian *installing* program mistake my
 partiotion table.
 When I install debian from scratch,debian installing
 program will
 mistake /dev/hda9 for /dev/hda14(maybe /dev/hda15,i
 dont remember
 clearly)
 mistake /dev/hda10 for /dev/hda15
 /dev/hda11 for /dev/hda16
 .
 If I delete freebsd partition,/dev/hda3,this mistake
 disappear.
 freebsd has it's partition,/dev/hda3=wd0s2,it's a
 primary partiotion
 absolutly.
 In /dev/hda3,or wd0s2,
   wd0s2a /root
   wd0s2b /swap
   wd0s2e  /usr
   wd0s2f  /var
 I suspect debian's installing program mistake
 wd0s2a,wd0s2b...as
 extended partion.
 In fact they are all freebsd's own partition.
 Sunday, May 06, 2001, 2:16:22 AM, you wrote:
 
 CF I'm no partition guru, but...
 
 CF On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 09:16:59PM +0800,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  hi,
 I cannot reinstall debian because debian
 cann't recognize my
  partitions correctly.
 
 CF I doubt this, it recognizes them allright, but
 differently from what
 CF you expected:)
 
 I have installed freebsd in /dev/hda2
  (including its own partition
 wd0s1a,dawd0s1b,wd0s1e,wd0s1f).
 
 CF What do you mean `incl its *own* part.'?
 bsd-partitions are partitions
 CF too:)  I guess that hda2 is an extended
 partition, that is a partition
 CF containing sub partitions. If so I would expect
 linux to count those
 CF partitions as well. Or is hda2 a bsd specific
 extended partition that
 CF linux doesn't how to interpreted, like the
 linux-extended partition
 CF fully hides its content to Microsoft products? 
 I guess not.
 
 CF To frase it differently: there are 4 primary
 partitions, each of which
 CF can be an extended partition and each extended
 partition can hold at
 CF most one real partition and one extended
 partition. The primary
 CF partitions are always numbered 1 to 4. The real
 partitions found in
 CF those extended partitions are numbered from 5 up
 as long as the OS
 CF knows how to deal with those extended
 partitions.  One very often
 CF talks about logical partitions when refering to
 the real partitions
 CF in extended partitions.
 
 
 CF So in your case:
 CF /dev/hda2: extended partition, can't hold a file
 system
 CF /dev/hda5: same as wd0s1a (I guess, as I don't
 know bsd's part. naming scheme)
 CF /dev/hda6: same as wd0s1b
 CF /dev/hda7: same as wd0s1e (where are c and d?)
 CF /dev/hda8: same as wd0s1f
 
 CF which would put your next linux partition at:
 CF /dev/hda3: second extended primary partition.
 CFI guess you've used more then one
 extended (primary) partition
 CFwhich holds the next real partiton...
 CF /dev/hda9: ...your linux partition
 
 If I plan to install debain in /dev/hda5,the
 installing program
  will mistake /dev/hda5 for /dev/hda8
 
 CF strange, I would expect /dev/hda9.
 
 CF For better help, post your partition table, i.e.
 the output of:
 
 CF   # fdisk -l /dev/hda
 CF   # cfdisk -Pt /dev/hda
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Best regards,
  fg   
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
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Re: can't install debian after freebsd?

2001-05-06 Thread Carel Fellinger
[[ please put your remarks *below* the quoted text,
   preserves context and makes replying soo much more fun ]]

On Wed, May 09, 2001 at 03:34:48AM +0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Device BootStart   EndBlocks   Id  System
..snipped normal looking output of fdisk

 I mean debian *installing* program mistake my partiotion table.

Yep, and what part of the install program suite?  The part were you get to
partition your hard disk?  If so that would be cfdisk.  So it would be
interesting to compare the output of *both* fdisk and cfdisk:

   # cfdisk -Pt /dev/hda
   # fdisk -l /dev/hda

 freebsd has it's partition,/dev/hda3=wd0s2,it's a primary partiotion
 absolutly.

Yep your definitely right here,
checked in on the web in FreeBSD excelent online docs.

 I suspect debian's installing program mistake wd0s2a,wd0s2b...as
 extended partion.

I find this a bit worrying, if fdisk and cfdisk treat BSD partitions
differently, who knows how the kernel will treat them!  So, let's have
a look:)

Ah, I see a CONFIG_BSD_DISKLABEL flag in the config help, and setting
this would indeed bring life into that special bsd-primary-partition.
[[ had your running kernel that flag on when compiled?
   the default debian kernels seem to have it on. ]]

Looking further into the source I think this bsd-primary-partition is
delt with *after* all normal (linux/dos/windows) extended partitions
are traversed, so bsd partitions will be numbered last.  At least in
the kernel.

 CF For better help, post your partition table, i.e. the output of:
 
 CF   # fdisk -l /dev/hda
 CF   # cfdisk -Pt /dev/hda

-- 
groetjes, carel



can't install debian after freebsd?

2001-05-05 Thread fg007
hi,
   I cannot reinstall debian because debian cann't recognize my
partitions correctly.
   I have installed freebsd in /dev/hda2
(including its own partition wd0s1a,dawd0s1b,wd0s1e,wd0s1f).
   If I plan to install debain in /dev/hda5,the installing program
will mistake /dev/hda5 for /dev/hda8
   To install debian correctly I have to install debian firstly and
install freebsd secondly.
   The problem can be slovled by hiding the freebsd partition,too.
   However I can  not find a proper tool to hide the freebsd partiotion.
   Is this a known bug?

maybe i not express the problem clearly

normal   debian installing program
/dev/hda1 --/dev/hda1
/dev/hda2(freebsd)--??
/dev/hda3
/dev/hda5-/dev/hda8
/dev/hda6-/dev/hda9
...




-- 
Best regards,
 fgmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Re: can't install debian after freebsd?

2001-05-05 Thread Carel Fellinger
I'm no partition guru, but...

On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 09:16:59PM +0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 hi,
I cannot reinstall debian because debian cann't recognize my
 partitions correctly.

I doubt this, it recognizes them allright, but differently from what
you expected:)

I have installed freebsd in /dev/hda2
 (including its own partition wd0s1a,dawd0s1b,wd0s1e,wd0s1f).

What do you mean `incl its *own* part.'? bsd-partitions are partitions
too:)  I guess that hda2 is an extended partition, that is a partition
containing sub partitions. If so I would expect linux to count those
partitions as well. Or is hda2 a bsd specific extended partition that
linux doesn't how to interpreted, like the linux-extended partition
fully hides its content to Microsoft products?  I guess not.

To frase it differently: there are 4 primary partitions, each of which
can be an extended partition and each extended partition can hold at
most one real partition and one extended partition. The primary
partitions are always numbered 1 to 4. The real partitions found in
those extended partitions are numbered from 5 up as long as the OS
knows how to deal with those extended partitions.  One very often
talks about logical partitions when refering to the real partitions
in extended partitions.


So in your case:
/dev/hda2: extended partition, can't hold a file system
/dev/hda5: same as wd0s1a (I guess, as I don't know bsd's part. naming scheme)
/dev/hda6: same as wd0s1b
/dev/hda7: same as wd0s1e (where are c and d?)
/dev/hda8: same as wd0s1f

which would put your next linux partition at:
/dev/hda3: second extended primary partition.
   I guess you've used more then one extended (primary) partition
   which holds the next real partiton...
/dev/hda9: ...your linux partition

If I plan to install debain in /dev/hda5,the installing program
 will mistake /dev/hda5 for /dev/hda8

strange, I would expect /dev/hda9.

For better help, post your partition table, i.e. the output of:

  # fdisk -l /dev/hda
  # cfdisk -Pt /dev/hda

-- 
groetjes, carel



Re[2]: can't install debian after freebsd?

2001-05-05 Thread fg007

Hello Carel,

   Device BootStart   EndBlocks   Id  System
/dev/hda1   * 1   382   3068383+   b  Win95 FAT32
/dev/hda3   702  1020   2562367+  a5  BSD/386
/dev/hda4  1021  4437  27447052+   5  Extended
/dev/hda5  1021  1275   20482566  FAT16
/dev/hda6  1276  1785   4096543+   b  Win95 FAT32
/dev/hda7  1786  2231   3582463+   b  Win95 FAT32
/dev/hda8  2232  2613   3068383+   b  Win95 FAT32
/dev/hda9  2614  2630136521   82  Linux swap
/dev/hda10 2631  2995   2931831   83  Linux
/dev/hda11 2996  3314   2562336   83  Linux
/dev/hda12 3315  3557   1951866   83  Linux
/dev/hda13 3558  3876   2562336   83  Linux
/dev/hda14 3877  4194   2554303+  83  Linux
/dev/hda15 4195  4437   1951866   83  Linux

I mean debian *installing* program mistake my partiotion table.
When I install debian from scratch,debian installing program will
mistake /dev/hda9 for /dev/hda14(maybe /dev/hda15,i dont remember
clearly)
mistake /dev/hda10 for /dev/hda15
/dev/hda11 for /dev/hda16
.
If I delete freebsd partition,/dev/hda3,this mistake disappear.
freebsd has it's partition,/dev/hda3=wd0s2,it's a primary partiotion
absolutly.
In /dev/hda3,or wd0s2,
  wd0s2a /root
  wd0s2b /swap
  wd0s2e  /usr
  wd0s2f  /var
I suspect debian's installing program mistake wd0s2a,wd0s2b...as
extended partion.
In fact they are all freebsd's own partition.
Sunday, May 06, 2001, 2:16:22 AM, you wrote:

CF I'm no partition guru, but...

CF On Tue, May 08, 2001 at 09:16:59PM +0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 hi,
I cannot reinstall debian because debian cann't recognize my
 partitions correctly.

CF I doubt this, it recognizes them allright, but differently from what
CF you expected:)

I have installed freebsd in /dev/hda2
 (including its own partition wd0s1a,dawd0s1b,wd0s1e,wd0s1f).

CF What do you mean `incl its *own* part.'? bsd-partitions are partitions
CF too:)  I guess that hda2 is an extended partition, that is a partition
CF containing sub partitions. If so I would expect linux to count those
CF partitions as well. Or is hda2 a bsd specific extended partition that
CF linux doesn't how to interpreted, like the linux-extended partition
CF fully hides its content to Microsoft products?  I guess not.

CF To frase it differently: there are 4 primary partitions, each of which
CF can be an extended partition and each extended partition can hold at
CF most one real partition and one extended partition. The primary
CF partitions are always numbered 1 to 4. The real partitions found in
CF those extended partitions are numbered from 5 up as long as the OS
CF knows how to deal with those extended partitions.  One very often
CF talks about logical partitions when refering to the real partitions
CF in extended partitions.


CF So in your case:
CF /dev/hda2: extended partition, can't hold a file system
CF /dev/hda5: same as wd0s1a (I guess, as I don't know bsd's part. naming 
scheme)
CF /dev/hda6: same as wd0s1b
CF /dev/hda7: same as wd0s1e (where are c and d?)
CF /dev/hda8: same as wd0s1f

CF which would put your next linux partition at:
CF /dev/hda3: second extended primary partition.
CFI guess you've used more then one extended (primary) partition
CFwhich holds the next real partiton...
CF /dev/hda9: ...your linux partition

If I plan to install debain in /dev/hda5,the installing program
 will mistake /dev/hda5 for /dev/hda8

CF strange, I would expect /dev/hda9.

CF For better help, post your partition table, i.e. the output of:

CF   # fdisk -l /dev/hda
CF   # cfdisk -Pt /dev/hda




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Debian+Vmware+FreeBSD

2001-04-23 Thread Carlos López
Buenas lista.

Tal como digo en el subject, ¿alguien ha probado el
vmware 2.0.3 (demo) dentro de Debian usando como
sistema operativo guest al FreeBSD ??

He estado mirando la home de vmware y en ella se dice
que sí, pero no lo tengo muy claro ...

Alguien ha echo pruebas con esto ???

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Re: Debian+Vmware+FreeBSD

2001-04-23 Thread Jaume Sabater
No lo he probao, pero creo que te tienes que pasar lor la web de freeBSD para 
pillar unas tools que necesitarás. Eso me lo contaron en el canal #freebsd 
del irc-hispano.org

A Dilluns 23 Abril 2001 11:02, Carlos López va escriure:
 Buenas lista.

 Tal como digo en el subject, ¿alguien ha probado el
 vmware 2.0.3 (demo) dentro de Debian usando como
 sistema operativo guest al FreeBSD ??

 He estado mirando la home de vmware y en ella se dice
 que sí, pero no lo tengo muy claro ...

 Alguien ha echo pruebas con esto ???

 _
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Re: Debian+Vmware+FreeBSD

2001-04-23 Thread A . Ramos
Funciona perfectamente, las tools que mencionas solo son para las X
window, no necesarias si no las instalas, vienen en el propio vmware

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Existen dos productos importantes que salieron de Berkeley: 
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Re: Debian+Vmware+FreeBSD

2001-04-23 Thread Carlos López
Esas tools no son las del website de vmware ???

--- Jaume Sabater [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:  No lo
he probao, pero creo que te tienes que pasar
 lor la web de freeBSD para 
 pillar unas tools que necesitarás. Eso me lo
 contaron en el canal #freebsd 
 del irc-hispano.org
 
 A Dilluns 23 Abril 2001 11:02, Carlos López va
 escriure:
  Buenas lista.
 
  Tal como digo en el subject, ¿alguien ha probado
 el
  vmware 2.0.3 (demo) dentro de Debian usando como
  sistema operativo guest al FreeBSD ??
 
  He estado mirando la home de vmware y en ella se
 dice
  que sí, pero no lo tengo muy claro ...
 
  Alguien ha echo pruebas con esto ???
 
 

_
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  Obtenga su dirección de correo-e gratis @yahoo.com
  en http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com
 
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Re: Debian+Vmware+FreeBSD

2001-04-23 Thread Jaume Sabater
Diria que si, pero no te lo sabria asegurar... Todavia no me he oinstalado el 
freeBSD en el vmware.

A Dilluns 23 Abril 2001 13:16, Carlos López va escriure:
 Esas tools no son las del website de vmware ???

 --- Jaume Sabater [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:  No lo
 he probao, pero creo que te tienes que pasar

  lor la web de freeBSD para
  pillar unas tools que necesitarás. Eso me lo
  contaron en el canal #freebsd
  del irc-hispano.org
 
  A Dilluns 23 Abril 2001 11:02, Carlos López va
 
  escriure:
   Buenas lista.
  
   Tal como digo en el subject, ¿alguien ha probado
 
  el
 
   vmware 2.0.3 (demo) dentro de Debian usando como
   sistema operativo guest al FreeBSD ??
  
   He estado mirando la home de vmware y en ella se
 
  dice
 
   que sí, pero no lo tengo muy claro ...
  
   Alguien ha echo pruebas con esto ???

 _

   Do You Yahoo!?
   Obtenga su dirección de correo-e gratis @yahoo.com
   en http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com
 
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 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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 www.argus.es
 
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 BARCELONA:
 Avgda. Marquès de Comillas, s/n
 (Recinte Poble Espanyol) - 08038 Barcelona
 
 Tel: 93 292 41 00
 Fax: 93 292 42 25
 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Debian and FreeBSD

2001-01-27 Thread Glenn Becker

OK - please pardon me if this is a basic/duh-type question (I searched on
DebianHELP but no luck):

I want to resize my main Debian/Linux partition to make room for a new
partition to hold FreeBSD. I have a 30G hd so I doubt it will be a
problem, but ... I don't know how to check how much of the main Deb
partition is occupied! This is, I guess, a basic admin task I should know
how to do, but ... I don't.

Once I know, I assume I can use GNU Parted (or fdisk) to take care of the
rest ...

But I'm also a bit cloudy re: how to get FreeBSD to the right place once I
download it ... thanks for yr patience as I think out loud. :-)

glenn
_
 |
// G l e n n  B e c k e r|
 | 
// I don't wanna kill my china pig.  |
//  -- Captain Beefheart |  
 | 
// [EMAIL PROTECTED]   | 
_|

At 6:39pm on 26 Jan 2001, Shell Hung wrote:

 ;; All,
 ;; 
 ;; Just for yoks (and because I have a nice DSL connection wch allows me to
 ;; do such things) I was thinking I'd like to download FreeBSD and intall it
 ;; next to my present Debian install.
 ;; 
 ;; If anyone knows some good documentation re: how to do this via ftp/how to
 ;; do it w/o screwin' up my Debian installation, + how to configure LILO, 
 ;; please point me to it.
 ;; 
 ;; Am just thinking it might be good (career-wise, eventually) to be familiar
 ;; with another flavor -- apologies for the sortof non-Debian content.
 I think you may read about FreeBSD + Linux HOWTO, the document
 can be found on linuxdoc.org..
 
 
 - Shell
 
 Hostname : shellhung.org
 Mailing List : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 OpenBSD AnonCVS : [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs
 
 
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Re: Debian and FreeBSD

2001-01-27 Thread staf wagemakers
On Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 06:08:38PM -0500, Glenn Becker wrote:
 
 OK - please pardon me if this is a basic/duh-type question (I searched on
 DebianHELP but no luck):
 
 I want to resize my main Debian/Linux partition to make room for a new
 partition to hold FreeBSD. 

Take a look at GNU parted, I never used it so don't ask me howto use it :)

 I have a 30G hd so I doubt it will be a
 problem, but ... I don't know how to check how much of the main Deb
 partition is occupied! This is, I guess, a basic admin task I should know
 how to do, but ... I don't.

man df...

regards,

-- 
Staf Wagemakers

email  : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
homepage   : http://staf.digibel.org



Re: Debian and FreeBSD

2001-01-27 Thread Tudor Oprea
On Sat, 27 Jan 2001, Glenn Becker wrote:

 problem, but ... I don't know how to check how much of the main Deb
 partition is occupied! This is, I guess, a basic admin task I should know
 how to do, but ... I don't.

use df, optionally with the -h(uman-readable) switch.

oasis:~$ df -h
FilesystemSize  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda1 554M   28M  497M   5% /
/dev/sdb1 463M   12M  428M   3% /home
/dev/sdb2 927M  831M   48M  95% /usr
/dev/sdb3 555M  5.0M  521M   1% /var


Cheers,

Tudor



Debian and FreeBSD

2001-01-26 Thread Glenn Becker

All,

Just for yoks (and because I have a nice DSL connection wch allows me to
do such things) I was thinking I'd like to download FreeBSD and intall it
next to my present Debian install.

If anyone knows some good documentation re: how to do this via ftp/how to
do it w/o screwin' up my Debian installation, + how to configure LILO, 
please point me to it.

Am just thinking it might be good (career-wise, eventually) to be familiar
with another flavor -- apologies for the sortof non-Debian content.

Thanks,

Glenn

_
 |
// G l e n n  B e c k e r|
 | 
// I don't wanna kill my china pig.  |
//  -- Captain Beefheart |  
 | 
// [EMAIL PROTECTED]   | 
_|



Re: Debian and FreeBSD

2001-01-26 Thread Shell Hung
;; All,
;; 
;; Just for yoks (and because I have a nice DSL connection wch allows me to
;; do such things) I was thinking I'd like to download FreeBSD and intall it
;; next to my present Debian install.
;; 
;; If anyone knows some good documentation re: how to do this via ftp/how to
;; do it w/o screwin' up my Debian installation, + how to configure LILO, 
;; please point me to it.
;; 
;; Am just thinking it might be good (career-wise, eventually) to be familiar
;; with another flavor -- apologies for the sortof non-Debian content.
I think you may read about FreeBSD + Linux HOWTO, the document
can be found on linuxdoc.org..


- Shell

Hostname : shellhung.org
Mailing List : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OpenBSD AnonCVS : [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs



Re: Debian vs. FreeBSD

1998-03-06 Thread Daniel Mashao
On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Y.A.Uvarov wrote:
 Could somebody compare Debian with FreeBSD.
 I currently work on FreeBSD and I want to
 know if there are any reasons to try Debian.
 
Not starting religious wars - it really depends. FreeBSD is solid and most
people who use it in my experience needs it for web-servers and the kind.
I do not recall anyone who uses it as a personal workstation like me. I
like trying new applications and throwing them out as soon as I think I
know what they do and it they do not satisfy my needs - Yep.

If I wanted to learn about the UNIX I probably use FreeBSD, but now I want
to have apps that do some work and that I can experiment with.
/---/
Daniel J. Mashao
Electrical Engineering[EMAIL PROTECTED]
University of Cape Town http://www.ee.uct.ac.za/~daniel 
Rondebosch, 7700, S. Africa(w) 27+21+650 2816   (h) 27+21+705 1233
/---/


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Debian vs. FreeBSD

1998-03-05 Thread Y.A.Uvarov
Hi!

Could somebody compare Debian with FreeBSD.
I currently work on FreeBSD and I want to
know if there are any reasons to try Debian.

Thanks in advance,
Yury.


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Re: Debian vs. FreeBSD

1998-03-05 Thread Carroll Kong
I have both FreeBSD and Debian installed.  I will use Debian and Linux
interchangably... from what I hear and so far I already begin to feel (i haven't
used freebsd nearly as much as linux), that FreeBSD is a more structured OS.
From what I hear from other admins, ex-Linux admins, freebsd is easier to
maintain, more secure, and more stable than Linux.  

Linux is more fun and I guess the more 'in' thing with a LOT more
hardware support and generally more software support.  (there is the freebsd
linux binary emulator)   Just for the record, I run Linux as my main personal
os. :)  


Carroll Kong

On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, Y.A.Uvarov wrote:

 Hi!
 
 Could somebody compare Debian with FreeBSD.
 I currently work on FreeBSD and I want to
 know if there are any reasons to try Debian.
 
 Thanks in advance,
 Yury.
 
 
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Re: Debian vs. FreeBSD

1998-03-05 Thread Hamish Moffatt
On Thu, Mar 05, 1998 at 12:39:22PM -0500, Carroll Kong wrote:
   I have both FreeBSD and Debian installed.  I will use Debian and Linux
 interchangably... from what I hear and so far I already begin to feel (i 
 haven't
 used freebsd nearly as much as linux), that FreeBSD is a more structured OS.
 From what I hear from other admins, ex-Linux admins, freebsd is easier to
 maintain, more secure, and more stable than Linux.  

I too have both FreeBSD and Linux installed, although I have only recently
installed FreeBSD myself. While FreeBSD may have a more structured kernel
(I do not know) I feel that the file system layout on Debian is more 
structured. FreeBSD installs significant parts of the system during initial
install into /usr/local; my local expert tells me that's because that's
the way traditional Unix does it. On Debian, I think we do things right,
which can mean different to the traditional unix way if necessary.

FreeBSD seems to have the base system, and packages, and ports.
Packages are like ours, installed with the package manager. However
there are not nearly as many packages for FreeBSD as there are for
Debian (or not in 2.2.5 anyway). But FreeBSD has the ports collection,
which is another significant collection of software. But this software
must be fetch  compiled when you need it; the port just provides
the patches to make it compile. And while this might seem to be
better than a precompiled package, it still seems to be upstream-version
specific.

   Linux is more fun and I guess the more 'in' thing with a LOT more
 hardware support and generally more software support.  (there is the freebsd
 linux binary emulator)   Just for the record, I run Linux as my main personal
 os. :)  

I have certainly had a lot more luck with hardware. I have not been able
to get my PnP SB16 nor my parallel ZIP drive working with FreeBSD 2.2.5
yet, although I have both compiled into the kernel.

The traditional advantages of FreeBSD are networking and stability.
I am yet to see any advantage over Linux though, but I am not running
huge servers. I have had Linux machines with 180+ day uptime (which ended
due to power cycle) and I am happy enough with that.


Hamish
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CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome.   http://hamish.home.ml.org


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