Re: Ok so Now which backup should I use
On Thu, 18 May 2023 15:13:46 +0800 Jeremy Ardley wrote: ... > This may not be an issue for entry level Debian users, but anyone who does > anything serious will want to compile from package source. They will? -- Celejar
Re: Ok so Now which backup should I use
On 17/5/23 15:36, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: Not many. An "apt-file search /usr/local" turns up exactly three packages. And I'd venture the guess that those three are doing this by mistake. I did a very brief search and many well known packages default to /usr/local. It's just the packagers at Debian who change this to /etc Defaulting to /usr/local include: nginx http://nginx.org/en/docs/configure.html kamailio https://github.com/kamailio/kamailio/blob/master/INSTALL postfix https://www.postfix.org/INSTALL.html dovecot https://doc.dovecot.org/installation_guide/dovecot_community_repositories/compiling_source/ I'm pretty confident most well known packages don't use /etc and instead use the /usr/local tree. This may not be an issue for entry level Debian users, but anyone who does anything serious will want to compile from package source. Back on topic. Backing up /usr/local should be SOP irrespective of distribution and level of user competence. -- Jeremy (Lists)
Re: Ok so Now which backup should I use
On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 02:56:32PM +0300, Anssi Saari wrote: > writes: > > > On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 09:53:36AM +0300, Anssi Saari wrote: > > >> It's an odd claim. I typically don't have anything in /usr/local except > >> what I put there myself [...] > > > Not many. An "apt-file search /usr/local" turns up exactly three packages. > > And I'd venture the guess that those three are doing this by mistake. > > Not many what? Not many packages. > Are you really responding by not quoting the part you're > commenting on? Why? [...] > It seems to me you're using the wrong tool to reach a wrong conclusion > with very little knowledge of the topic, that being Debian > packaging. Why do you think apt-file is the correct tool? Because it tells me what any Debian package would put in /usr/local, > I'd appreciate a little restraint when contradicting what I said. You > don't have to vomit all of your half baked thoughts to the list. And > definitely don't automatically assume people don't know what they're > talking about. Sigh. Here's a full quote: You wrote: > Celejar writes: > > > On Tue, 16 May 2023 09:52:07 +0800 > > Jeremy Ardley wrote: > > > >> > >> On 16/5/23 09:11, pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > >> > I'd suggest backing up /etc, since that's where your system settings > >> > are. I also back up /var, since that's typically where your logs and > >> > mail are. > >> > >> There is a lot relevant of stuff in /usr/local > >> > >> For instance some programs use /usr/local/etc rather than /etc > > > > They do? I see that my /usr/local/etc is empty. What programs use this > > directory > > It's an odd claim. I typically don't have anything in /usr/local except > what I put there myself. Some Debian packages do create a directory in > /usr/local/share but leave it empty. I repeat: "Some Debian packages..." ...to which I replied "Not many" (three, it seems). Can we now declare this tempest in a teapot closed? Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Ok so Now which backup should I use
writes: > On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 09:53:36AM +0300, Anssi Saari wrote: >> It's an odd claim. I typically don't have anything in /usr/local except >> what I put there myself [...] > Not many. An "apt-file search /usr/local" turns up exactly three packages. > And I'd venture the guess that those three are doing this by mistake. Not many what? Are you really responding by not quoting the part you're commenting on? Why? It seems to me you're using the wrong tool to reach a wrong conclusion with very little knowledge of the topic, that being Debian packaging. Why do you think apt-file is the correct tool? I'd appreciate a little restraint when contradicting what I said. You don't have to vomit all of your half baked thoughts to the list. And definitely don't automatically assume people don't know what they're talking about.
Re: Ok so Now which backup should I use
On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 09:53:36AM +0300, Anssi Saari wrote: > Celejar writes: > > > On Tue, 16 May 2023 09:52:07 +0800 > > Jeremy Ardley wrote: > > > >> > >> On 16/5/23 09:11, pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > >> > I'd suggest backing up /etc, since that's where your system settings > >> > are. I also back up /var, since that's typically where your logs and > >> > mail are. > >> > >> There is a lot relevant of stuff in /usr/local > >> > >> For instance some programs use /usr/local/etc rather than /etc > > > > They do? I see that my /usr/local/etc is empty. What programs use this > > directory > > It's an odd claim. I typically don't have anything in /usr/local except > what I put there myself [...] Not many. An "apt-file search /usr/local" turns up exactly three packages. And I'd venture the guess that those three are doing this by mistake. /usr/local is for the "local installation" (well, duh), not for the distro. That's FHS, and Debian packaging rhymes pretty well with FHS. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Ok so Now which backup should I use
On 17/5/23 14:53, Anssi Saari wrote: It's an odd claim. I typically don't have anything in /usr/local except what I put there myself. Some Debian packages do create a directory in /usr/local/share but leave it empty. So what goes in /usr/local is mostly software I've compiled myself and maybe some little scripts. Basically stuff I might use both as both root and normal user. If it's just for my non-privileged user account then it typically goes in $HOME/bin or the more modern $HOME/.local/bin. Programs compiled from source rather than as part of a distro package may use /usr/local as a default. For example kamailio defaults configuration to /usr/local/etc and homebrew defaults packages to /usr/local -- Jeremy (Lists)
Re: Ok so Now which backup should I use
Celejar writes: > On Tue, 16 May 2023 09:52:07 +0800 > Jeremy Ardley wrote: > >> >> On 16/5/23 09:11, pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: >> > I'd suggest backing up /etc, since that's where your system settings >> > are. I also back up /var, since that's typically where your logs and >> > mail are. >> >> There is a lot relevant of stuff in /usr/local >> >> For instance some programs use /usr/local/etc rather than /etc > > They do? I see that my /usr/local/etc is empty. What programs use this > directory It's an odd claim. I typically don't have anything in /usr/local except what I put there myself. Some Debian packages do create a directory in /usr/local/share but leave it empty. So what goes in /usr/local is mostly software I've compiled myself and maybe some little scripts. Basically stuff I might use both as both root and normal user. If it's just for my non-privileged user account then it typically goes in $HOME/bin or the more modern $HOME/.local/bin. So for me, /usr/local is useful to back up but typically it amounts to very little data. My Debian router has all of 812 kB in there, for example.
Re: Ok so Now which backup should I use
Am 16.05.2023 um 02:17 schrieb Maureen L Thomas: > I have everything I need including a third HDD. There are so many > backup programs I have to wonder which one will work for my needs. I > just need to make a backup of my home directory so if I do something > stupid like play with /var and have no idea how to fix it. Is there > something else I need to back up besides /home? I appreciate your help. > > Moe > TBH, I have always preferred to use my own hand-scripted backup using standard tools, bacause i am willing to tailor it to special use cases i might encounter. And a basic backup has to offer the feature to restore in any way, i want. But, just recently, i decided to create a backup for my neighbor on their laptop, and did not wwant to write everything from scratch. After searching a bit, i opted for fsarchiver, a simple tool, that is already on some ubuntu live cd. Learning its commandline is not so difficult, the biggest problem AFAICT is, that there is only one (french) developer and thus the tool has not seen a huge amount of public testing. But i pucked it anyway, had several backups and - who would have thought: several restore operations carried out since. And i am happy with the choice. You might take a look as well: https://www.fsarchiver.org/ just my 2 cents, DdB
Re: Ok so Now which backup should I use
On Tue, 16 May 2023 09:52:07 +0800 Jeremy Ardley wrote: > > On 16/5/23 09:11, pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: > > I'd suggest backing up /etc, since that's where your system settings > > are. I also back up /var, since that's typically where your logs and > > mail are. > > There is a lot relevant of stuff in /usr/local > > For instance some programs use /usr/local/etc rather than /etc They do? I see that my /usr/local/etc is empty. What programs use this directory -- Celejar
Re: Ok so Now which backup should I use
Maureen L Thomas writes: > I have everything I need including a third HDD. There are so many backup > programs I have to wonder which one will work for my needs. I > just need to make a backup of my home directory so if I do something stupid > like play with /var and have no idea how to fix it. Is there > something else I need to back up besides /home? I appreciate your help. I use bup. It's a fairly simple command line tool. It can generate error correction data for my backups too which I thought is great but as you say, there are many I back up /boot /etc /home /root usr/local /var/lib/dpkg /var/lib/apt/extended_states on my main desktop. Probably different directories on my other computers. I can't remember why /var/lib/dpkg and /var/lib/apt/extended_states though. /boot is a little suspect too but I do have a custom Grub theme in there but that's the only thing worth backing up in /boot. I also save partition tables with sfdisk and Debian package selections with dpkg --get-selections "*", just in case. My desktop especially has a fair number of partitions on the boot drive with three operating system. So, good to keep a copy of that.
Re: Ok so Now which backup should I use
On 5/15/23 17:17, Maureen L Thomas wrote: I have everything I need including a third HDD. There are so many backup programs I have to wonder which one will work for my needs. I just need to make a backup of my home directory so if I do something stupid like play with /var and have no idea how to fix it. Is there something else I need to back up besides /home? I appreciate your help. Moe I will assume that you have one desktop computer with one internal drive, that you have two USB HDD's for backups, that you will connect one USB HDD at a time, and that you will rotate the USB HDD's periodically. Start keeping records of your system administration activities. The simplest approach is to use a USB flash drive. Create a log.txt file and type your notes into that. Copy and paste console sessions into the log.txt. Copy files you create, modify, or delete to the USB flash drive. This information will be invaluable for future reference and trouble shooting. Keep using Brasero to burn optical discs containing the data that you want to keep indefinitely (archives). If your system drive is an SSD, emptying the trash and running fstrim(8) prior to taking an image will reduce the image file size. I would start by using Clonezilla to save a compressed full image of the internal drive to a file on a USB HDD: https://clonezilla.org/ Clonezilla is non-trivial. If you get stuck, try the clonezilla-live mailing list archives (or subscribing and posting): https://sourceforge.net/p/clonezilla/mailman/ Once you have an image, do a full backup onto the USB HDD (see below). Then immediately rotate the USB HDD's, take a compressed full image, do a full backup, and move the first USB HDD off-site. After a period of time, or when the current USB HDD is nearly full, fetch the off-site USB HDD, rotate disks, take a compressed full image, do a full backup, and move the previous USB HDD off-site. Repeat periodically. As the USB HDD's fill up, delete the oldest images and backups to make room for new images and backups. As for a Debian backup package: https://wiki.debian.org/BackupAndRecovery I have been using rsync(1) over ssh(1) for backups for many years. If you are comfortable with a terminal, command-line interface, configuration files, rsync(1), ssh(1), crontab(1), etc., I suggest rsnapshot(1): https://manpages.debian.org/bullseye-backports/rsnapshot/rsnapshot.1.en.html If you want a simpler, single-user, GUI desktop backup application, I suggest backintime(1): https://manpages.debian.org/buster/backintime-common/backintime.1.en.html Evaluate the backup solution by using a test directory with some small test files under your home directory. Verify that you can backup. Then modify or delete a test file and verify that you can restore it. If you like the backup tool, reconfigure it to backup your home directory and any data directories you have created. Backing up /etc would be nice, if you can figure that out. Restoring a Clonezilla image is more involved. You will need a blank drive of exactly the same size as your current system drive, plus a drive case and tools for removing and installing drives (including an anti-static wrist strap). After taking a full image, remove the system drive, install the blank drive, restore the image, boot the computer, and test. If all is well, put the previous drive in the case. If not, zero the new drive and try again. If you cannot get the new drive working, remove it, reinstall the previous drive, and put the new drive in the case until you are ready to try again. David
Re: Ok so Now which backup should I use
When you have things going your way, why not just image the whole disc and sleep well. I have used this for years. It is proprietary yes, and runs on an old version of Linux. https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image-for-linux/ I have no interest in these people, I don't get a commission for advertising them. If you duel boot you can also make an image of that other OS too, keep them both on a single disc using their respective file systems on two partitions named for the purpose. GParted working from a bootable disc or stick, works well for setting that up. IFL you put on something that can be booted first in case things are really screwed. It is pretty straight forward with no surprises. An image before a large dist-upgrade especially with the word nvidia in the list of packages, I would do without hesitation. -- salve debian invictum
Re: Ok so Now which backup should I use
On 16/5/23 09:11, pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: I'd suggest backing up /etc, since that's where your system settings are. I also back up /var, since that's typically where your logs and mail are. There is a lot relevant of stuff in /usr/local For instance some programs use /usr/local/etc rather than /etc and your custom installed fonts amongst lots of other stuff are in /usr/local/share -- Jeremy (Lists)
Re: Ok so Now which backup should I use
On Mon, 15 May 2023 20:17:48 -0400 Maureen L Thomas wrote: > I have everything I need including a third HDD. There are so many > backup programs I have to wonder which one will work for my needs. I > just need to make a backup of my home directory so if I do something > stupid like play with /var and have no idea how to fix it. Is there > something else I need to back up besides /home? I appreciate your > help. > > Moe I'd suggest backing up /etc, since that's where your system settings are. I also back up /var, since that's typically where your logs and mail are. Which backup program you use depends on features, like whether you want it to fire off at the same time every day. Like whether you want a GUI or terminal program. Etc. Personally, I wrote my own backup script using rsync, which fires off each day at about 7:38. Paul -- Paul M. Foster Personal Blog: http://noferblatz.com Company Site: http://quillandmouse.com Software Projects: https://gitlab.com/paulmfoster
Ok so Now which backup should I use
I have everything I need including a third HDD. There are so many backup programs I have to wonder which one will work for my needs. I just need to make a backup of my home directory so if I do something stupid like play with /var and have no idea how to fix it. Is there something else I need to back up besides /home? I appreciate your help. Moe
