Re: Install Debian offline

[Brian]

On Mon 22 Aug 2016 at 12:40:08 +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Nicolas George wrote:
> > According to some people on this list, you should be quartered for CCing
> > someone who did not ask for it
> 
> Wasn't it "hanged, drawn, and quartered" ?
> 
> 
> > this clause does not work
> 
> One has to act like a good field officer: Know when you shall not obey
> your orders.
> (Aphorism attributed to Friedrich II, King of Prussia.)
> 
> I avoid Cc-ing people whom i assume to be subscribed.
> 
> 
> Brian wrote:
> > The lack of LDOSUBSCRIBER in a header does not indicate
> > the poster is unable to receive responses
> 
> Sure, that's why i waited for a reply pattern from Vitalij before i pointed
> to the probable situation.

I'd like to make clear that I am entirely unconcerned about whether a
user sends a CC when replying to a list mail and do not wish to argue
the merits or otherwise of doing so. It is the tecknical aspect of
deducing a subscription to the list from mail headers which interests
me. There isn't a way of doing this. The headers of someone's mails
are not intended to reveal what the subscription address is. Which is
not to say it isn't there; but that is the user's choice.

Re: Install Debian offline

[Brian]

On Mon 22 Aug 2016 at 12:12:22 +0200, Nicolas George wrote:

> Le sextidi 6 fructidor, an CCXXIV, Thomas Schmitt a écrit :
> > The assumption that Vitalij is not subscribed is further supported by
> > the fact that he only replied to my mails which are Cc'ed to him.
> 
> According to some people on this list, you should be quartered for CCing
> someone who did not ask for it because it contradicts a clause in the list's
> code of conduct. The fact that this clause does not work because it leads to
> precisely this kind of situation and there are technical solutions that
> yield a better result is lost on these people. As for myself, I have decided
> to ignore that clause and set locally the reply-to header that the list
> manager should be adding.

There is no "situation". A user posts to debian-user with a query.
Replies go to the list (L in mutt). The user reads the reply.

Ah, you say, the user might not be subscribed to the list and has
not made any other arrangement to view the list or get a reply via
a CC. Tough luck; it is not my place or responsibilty to make
assumptions (technical or social) on what the user does or does not
do.

Re: Install Debian offline

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Nicolas George wrote:
> According to some people on this list, you should be quartered for CCing
> someone who did not ask for it

Wasn't it "hanged, drawn, and quartered" ?


> this clause does not work

One has to act like a good field officer: Know when you shall not obey
your orders.
(Aphorism attributed to Friedrich II, King of Prussia.)

I avoid Cc-ing people whom i assume to be subscribed.


Brian wrote:
> The lack of LDOSUBSCRIBER in a header does not indicate
> the poster is unable to receive responses

Sure, that's why i waited for a reply pattern from Vitalij before i pointed
to the probable situation.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Install Debian offline

[Brian]

On Mon 22 Aug 2016 at 12:06:00 +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Brian wrote:
> > There is no way of telling from his mails whether he is subscribed or
> > not.
> 
> There is a strong correlation of mail header "X-Spam-Status:" content
> and the reply activity on this list. (I assume Mutt 1.5.23 offers a way
> to see all headers.)

It does. It is a competent MUA. :)

> People who reply to list-only posts very often have
> 
>   X-Spam-Status: ...,LDOSUBSCRIBER,...
> 
> while people who first show up as posters of questions often do not
> have this text snippet in their X-Spam-Status.

Sending mail to -user and receiving mail from it are different
processes. The lack of LDOSUBSCRIBER in a header does not indicate
the poster is unable to receive responses to a posted mail. He
could be subscribed under another address.

> The assumption that Vitalij is not subscribed is further supported by
> the fact that he only replied to my mails which are Cc'ed to him.

I made the assumptions he was receiving mails through another route
and did not want to reply to anyone else.

Re: Install Debian offline

[Nicolas George]

Le sextidi 6 fructidor, an CCXXIV, Thomas Schmitt a écrit :
> The assumption that Vitalij is not subscribed is further supported by
> the fact that he only replied to my mails which are Cc'ed to him.

According to some people on this list, you should be quartered for CCing
someone who did not ask for it because it contradicts a clause in the list's
code of conduct. The fact that this clause does not work because it leads to
precisely this kind of situation and there are technical solutions that
yield a better result is lost on these people. As for myself, I have decided
to ignore that clause and set locally the reply-to header that the list
manager should be adding.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Install Debian offline

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Brian wrote:
> There is no way of telling from his mails whether he is subscribed or
> not.

There is a strong correlation of mail header "X-Spam-Status:" content
and the reply activity on this list. (I assume Mutt 1.5.23 offers a way
to see all headers.)

People who reply to list-only posts very often have

  X-Spam-Status: ...,LDOSUBSCRIBER,...

while people who first show up as posters of questions often do not
have this text snippet in their X-Spam-Status.

The assumption that Vitalij is not subscribed is further supported by
the fact that he only replied to my mails which are Cc'ed to him.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Install Debian offline

[Brian]

On Mon 22 Aug 2016 at 11:43:11 +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> is the list aware that Vitalij (Виталий ) is
> probably not subscribed and does not see answers which are not
> Cc'ed to him ?

There is no way of telling from his mails whether he is subscribed or
not. "Probably subscribed" is as valid a conclusion as "probably not
subscribed"

Re: Install Debian offline

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

is the list aware that Vitalij (Виталий ) is
probably not subscribed and does not see answers which are not
Cc'ed to him ?

The full thread can be seen at

  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2016/08/thrd2.html


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Install Debian offline

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Виталий wrote:
> The problem is that the bootable USB flash drive needs to be done in
> Windows.

The FAQ
  https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb
mentions
  http://sourceforge.net/projects/win32diskimager/
and adds
  "win32diskimager will apparently only list input files named *.img
   by default, while the Debian images are named *.iso. Change the filter
   to *.* if you use this tool."


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Install Debian offline

[Brian]

On Mon 22 Aug 2016 at 10:10:34 +0200, Francesco Ariis wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 10:38:34AM +0300, Виталий wrote:
> > The problem is that the bootable USB flash drive needs to be done in 
> > Windows.
> > Linux is not installed to main system. There are only a feeble laptop with 
> > ArhLinux - Cinnamon+gdm, but a without internet.
> 
> You might be interested in Linux Live USB
> 
> http://www.linuxliveusb.com/
> 
> It works with 'custom' .img files too.
> 
> Suggesting cat to a user who might or might not be technically
> is an awful idea.

You could have a point, cp might be better.

  cp  /dev/sdX

Re: Install Debian offline

[Francesco Ariis]

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 10:38:34AM +0300, Виталий wrote:
> The problem is that the bootable USB flash drive needs to be done in Windows.
> Linux is not installed to main system. There are only a feeble laptop with 
> ArhLinux - Cinnamon+gdm, but a without internet.

You might be interested in Linux Live USB

http://www.linuxliveusb.com/

It works with 'custom' .img files too.

Suggesting cat to a user who might or might not be technically
is an awful idea.

Re: Install Debian offline

[Brian]

On Mon 22 Aug 2016 at 10:38:34 +0300, Виталий wrote:

> The problem is that the bootable USB flash drive needs to be done in
> Windows.  Linux is not installed to main system. There are only a
> feeble laptop with ArhLinux - Cinnamon+gdm, but a without internet.

Use the cat or dd command on the Arch machine.

Re: Install Debian offline

[Виталий]

The problem is that the bootable USB flash drive needs to be done in Windows.
Linux is not installed to main system. There are only a feeble laptop with 
ArhLinux - Cinnamon+gdm, but a without internet.

21.08.2016, 22:44, "Thomas Schmitt" :
> Hi,
>
> Виталий wrote:
>>  Where do I get the image of one file? To write to a USB flash drive
>>  to 32GB. To install without the Internet?
>
> Consider the first BD image for amd64:
>   
> http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.5.0/amd64/jigdo-bd/debian-8.5.0-amd64-BD-1.jigdo
> or for 32 bit i386
>   
> http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.5.0/i386/jigdo-bd/debian-8.5.0-i386-BD-1.jigdo
> Together with their files
>   
> http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.5.0/amd64/jigdo-bd/debian-8.5.0-*-BD-1.template
> they describe the content of large ISO 9660 images for 25 GB media.
> For download instructions see
>
>   https://www.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/#how
>
> The resulting ISO image may then be put on the stick by copying it
> to its base device file (i.e. /dev/sdc not /dev/sdc1):
>
>   dd if=debian-8.5.0-amd64-BD-1.iso bs=1M of=/dev/sdc
>
> PC-BIOS and EFI should be willing to boot the stick.
> Partition editors should afterwards report "DOS" style partitions.
> Do not change them. At most add new "DOS" style partitions.
>
> Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas

Re: Install Debian offline

[Виталий]

Ок I will try

21.08.2016, 22:44, "Thomas Schmitt" :
> Hi,
>
> Виталий wrote:
>>  Where do I get the image of one file? To write to a USB flash drive
>>  to 32GB. To install without the Internet?
>
> Consider the first BD image for amd64:
>   
> http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.5.0/amd64/jigdo-bd/debian-8.5.0-amd64-BD-1.jigdo
> or for 32 bit i386
>   
> http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.5.0/i386/jigdo-bd/debian-8.5.0-i386-BD-1.jigdo
> Together with their files
>   
> http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.5.0/amd64/jigdo-bd/debian-8.5.0-*-BD-1.template
> they describe the content of large ISO 9660 images for 25 GB media.
> For download instructions see
>
>   https://www.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/#how
>
> The resulting ISO image may then be put on the stick by copying it
> to its base device file (i.e. /dev/sdc not /dev/sdc1):
>
>   dd if=debian-8.5.0-amd64-BD-1.iso bs=1M of=/dev/sdc
>
> PC-BIOS and EFI should be willing to boot the stick.
> Partition editors should afterwards report "DOS" style partitions.
> Do not change them. At most add new "DOS" style partitions.
>
> Have a nice day :)
>
> Thomas

Re: Install Debian offline

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Виталий wrote:
> Where do I get the image of one file? To write to a USB flash drive
> to 32GB. To install without the Internet?

Consider the first BD image for amd64:
  
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.5.0/amd64/jigdo-bd/debian-8.5.0-amd64-BD-1.jigdo
or for 32 bit i386
  
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.5.0/i386/jigdo-bd/debian-8.5.0-i386-BD-1.jigdo
Together with their files
  
http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/8.5.0/amd64/jigdo-bd/debian-8.5.0-*-BD-1.template
they describe the content of large ISO 9660 images for 25 GB media.
For download instructions see

  https://www.debian.org/CD/jigdo-cd/#how

The resulting ISO image may then be put on the stick by copying it
to its base device file (i.e. /dev/sdc not /dev/sdc1):

  dd if=debian-8.5.0-amd64-BD-1.iso bs=1M of=/dev/sdc

PC-BIOS and EFI should be willing to boot the stick.
Partition editors should afterwards report "DOS" style partitions.
Do not change them. At most add new "DOS" style partitions.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Install Debian offline

[Brian]

On Sun 21 Aug 2016 at 21:37:20 +0300, Виталий wrote:

> Hello. Where do I get the image of one file? To write to a USB flash drive to 
> 32GB. To install without the Internet?
> 
> 
> I do not know how to combine the 5 DVDs that are already downloaded

You have 5 DVDs.

Only the first one can be used to to install Debian.

If you have a Linux machine You write the first DVD to a USB flash drive
with the command

  cat whatever_its_name_is > /dev/sdX

(You will ask what this means if you do not understand. If you only have
Windows you will also ask. You will also read the Installation Manual).