subject:"Re\: Kde 3.5 ..."

Freeman wrote:

 On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 10:40:51PM -0700, evenso wrote:
 On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 02:43:32AM +0200, deloptes wrote:
 
  . . .
 
  
  when is squeeze becoming stable??
  
 
 According to officialdom, approximately when the number of R-C bugs hits
 300. That is the green line here:
 http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ . Process trumps schedules.
 
 
 OK, started looking around and found a better answer. :-)
 
 http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2010/05/msg0.html
 

Thank a lot really useful.

I did install yesterday sid 4.4  it's a headache ... so I'll wait until
it works at least half the way.
I'll try squeeze (kde4.3) but I think it was told that it's not pretty food
yet.

So to me it looks like we can safely use kde3 the next 2-3 years.

regards


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

Dotan Cohen wrote:

Hi, Dotan.
I'm not sure what makes you work for KDE but I hope that you can bring our
word to them. I have really a problem talking to programmers and software
people (in most of the cases), because they already think in routines ...
so the logic behind there thinking is not a human rationality but a 0 || 1

 On 8 May 2010 15:32, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote:
 the windows are absolutely useless, i can not
 use many, they have all kind of useless information;
 
 What useless information? I'd like to fix that if you will be more
 specific.

Useless is all the bullsh*t that makes kde4 nice but useless.
Why one would develop eyecandies or tons of absolutely stupid games, but
don't focus on improving basic functionality and also debian people ...

I want to ask you how I can let my notebook configure and mount network
shares (nfs) before I login ... I've tried to discuss this but all I was
preached was networkmanager is good. It's not as it works user-level

 
 
 the menu, needs 3
 times more clicks than 3.5;
 
 Can you be more specific? Are you referring to Kmenu?

i.e. konsole-kde3.5 you click down left on the icon and you have a context
menu to open a new session.

What do I need akonadi or nepomuk or whatever else.
All the crap _must_ be disabled and let the people enable it themselves.

 
 
 the time to be ready to use is 5
 times than 3.5;
 
 Do you mean the load time of the desktop? I do agree that it takes a
 long time (and the starting Akonaki takes even longer!), but I do not
 remember KDE 3 starting so fast either. The new Gnome starts in
 seconds!

It's not the freedom anymore from kde3.5. Why kde team does not work on
compatibility with 3.5 at least in the functional perspective ... no they
program any kind of stupid and useless sh*t.

I really like kde but I'm very disappointed from the mentalilty they show in
kde4 and how they've pushed it and also that people agreed and accepted
this.

 
 
 In my case, kde 4.x indicate me when is time to change Desktop, i am
 going to stay with 3.5 still support finish, and then to test others
 desktops which follow the kiss principle. Jo, Jo, Jo.

 
 When you do that, please mail me (privately or on list with CC to me
 privately) to let me know what features other desktops have that you
 like. I'd like to incorporate them into KDE. Thanks. I highly
 recommend testing Gnome Shell, which will be Gnome 3. A lot of people
 are very happy with it. Ion and Enlightenment are popular too, each
 for their own reasons. XFCE and the boxen might be a little lacking if
 you are used to KDE 3.
 

Dotan, please, be nice. KDE should stay simple to use and to look at.
Possible solution is to enable default profiles somewhere and to focus on
really important things.

I'll get a list of things that I have problem with by the end of the week.

I've installed it using debootstrap sid yesterday. I then pulled the kde4 by
doing kde-all and deselecting all the things I don't want to have. I could
send you a package list if you like.
It hung few times while installing with dselect (specifically when
installing policy-kit and bluez/kdebluetooth) so I removed them to complete
installation

1) after logging in it complains about some ConsoleKit missing.
2) I started organizer and went in 20 minutes to bed. In the morning it was
already running  wow if I knew I would run it with time  to see how
long it takes to start
3) I've installed kweather ... but no applet available. where is it. Why
should kde do this ugly thing with the widgets from the panel  I'm
sending you a screenshot of my toolbar and I'm not moving to anything else
until I have those apps in the new version.

Many other questions to follow - I hope you have patience and talk to kde
guys, because I couldn't stand their young undeveloped developers brains

regards




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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

deloptes wrote:

screenshot - I need at least those app/lets working to even start thinking
of using kde

- teatime
- weather
- moon
- clock/calendar 
- wireless manager
- skype
- korganizer
- kwallet
- cpu monitor
- infrared control
- powermanagement
- keyboard
- screen management (xrandr interface)
- krypt 

I forgot to mention that the keyboard froze after pressing ALT+F2 and
switching language settings

A HUGE trouble I see is with the keyboard layout for my mother
language bulgarian
Who the hell have change the default keyboard layout for the phonetic setup?
I've been using this for years now hen I press W I get seomthing
different ..
_THIS_ _IS_ _REALLY_ _ODD_ - _STUPID_ _MONKEYS_!

regards
attachment: testing47.png

Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-11 Thread Teemu Likonen

* 2010-05-11 12:37 (+0200), delop...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Dotan, please, be nice.

 I hope you have patience and talk to kde guys, because I couldn't
 stand their young undeveloped developers brains

Yes, being nice is really nice.


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Re: Kde 3.5 ...

Teemu Likonen wrote:

 * 2010-05-11 12:37 (+0200), delop...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 Dotan, please, be nice.
 
 I hope you have patience and talk to kde guys, because I couldn't
 stand their young undeveloped developers brains
 
 Yes, being nice is really nice.
 
 

yes, it's said in a quite polite way.

I still can't believe that kde is doing this for real. If it was a
commercial company it would have lost a lot.

So the major think I dislike in KDE4.4 at the moment is that they have put
something called new phonetic layout for the keyboard ... but the old one
is gone ... well I've been typing this way for the past 15years. Which
idiot did decide to drop the old one?
and I'm not sorry for using this word because it's really idiotic or they
are smoking something strong, I just don't want to know. IT looks like they
really don't care about the people using kde.

Said in a nice way, Dotan could you put this on your list and pass it to kde
developers. I'm missing for sure the old bulgarian phonetic layout where
w=в and v=ж and this is a showstopper for me.

regards



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Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-11 Thread Brad Rogers

On Tue, 11 May 2010 12:19:22 +0200
steef debian.li...@home.nl wrote:

Hello steef,

 this seems the answer where i was waiting for.

Not exactly what you wanted, but I'm sure it'll suffice.
 
 thanx agaian,

You're welcome.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent

Well I don't want you to think I'm being obscene
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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On 10 May 2010 23:41, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote:
 2010/5/9 Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com:
 On 8 May 2010 22:35, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote:
 2010/5/8 Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com:
 What useless information? I'd like to fix that if you will be more 
 specific.

 Who are you figuring out you are, man?

 A KDE contributor who is trying to help make KDE suitable for you. If
 you do not appreciate that then I can just buzz right off, no hard
 feelings.

 I did not ask you for help, the message was for other person, and it
 was a comment; then you are not helping; you are an intruder, and a
 troll, of course.


I'll not bother you again, then.


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http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On 11 May 2010 13:37, deloptes delop...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Dotan Cohen wrote:

 Hi, Dotan.
 I'm not sure what makes you work for KDE but I hope that you can bring our
 word to them. I have really a problem talking to programmers and software
 people (in most of the cases), because they already think in routines ...
 so the logic behind there thinking is not a human rationality but a 0 || 1


Nobody makes me, I do it for fun.


 On 8 May 2010 15:32, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote:
 the windows are absolutely useless, i can not
 use many, they have all kind of useless information;

 What useless information? I'd like to fix that if you will be more
 specific.

 Useless is all the bullsh*t that makes kde4 nice but useless.
 Why one would develop eyecandies or tons of absolutely stupid games, but
 don't focus on improving basic functionality and also debian people ...


If you please tell me what basic functionality is missing in KDE 4.4
then I will do my best to fix that. But I can only work with specific
examples, for me KDE 4.4 and even 4.3 had all the basic functionality
that I need. What, specifically, is missing for you?


 I want to ask you how I can let my notebook configure and mount network
 shares (nfs) before I login ... I've tried to discuss this but all I was
 preached was networkmanager is good. It's not as it works user-level


The KDE networkmanager is really not that good, I use wicd myself. In
any case, back to the question, that would be Debian-specific and not
a KDE issue. I'm not evading, it's simply not my field.


 the menu, needs 3
 times more clicks than 3.5;

 Can you be more specific? Are you referring to Kmenu?

 i.e. konsole-kde3.5 you click down left on the icon and you have a context
 menu to open a new session.


Which Icon? The New Tab icon?

You might also be interested in this, regarding Konsole sessions:
http://saschpe.wordpress.com/2010/05/06/konsoles-user-interface-changes/


 What do I need akonadi or nepomuk or whatever else.
 All the crap _must_ be disabled and let the people enable it themselves.


You might be interested in this as well:
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2010/05/i-dont-need-no-stinking-nepomuk-right.html

Note that Akonadi is _not_ enabled by default, and that Nepomuk uses
only 2 MB of memory in KDE trunk, which will be KDE 4.5. As much
problems as those two have given us, it's finally solved!


 Do you mean the load time of the desktop? I do agree that it takes a
 long time (and the starting Akonaki takes even longer!), but I do not
 remember KDE 3 starting so fast either. The new Gnome starts in
 seconds!

 It's not the freedom anymore from kde3.5. Why kde team does not work on
 compatibility with 3.5 at least in the functional perspective ... no they
 program any kind of stupid and useless sh*t.


Compatibility in what sense? Please, without a specific example I
cannot even begin to answer the question.


 I really like kde but I'm very disappointed from the mentalilty they show in
 kde4 and how they've pushed it and also that people agreed and accepted
 this.


I know, KDE 3 was simply abandoned. The devs were very arrogant. One
even went so far as to say that KDE doesn't need users. Thankfully,
that bit is almost two years behind us now, though.


 When you do that, please mail me (privately or on list with CC to me
 privately) to let me know what features other desktops have that you
 like. I'd like to incorporate them into KDE. Thanks. I highly
 recommend testing Gnome Shell, which will be Gnome 3. A lot of people
 are very happy with it. Ion and Enlightenment are popular too, each
 for their own reasons. XFCE and the boxen might be a little lacking if
 you are used to KDE 3.


 Dotan, please, be nice. KDE should stay simple to use and to look at.
 Possible solution is to enable default profiles somewhere and to focus on
 really important things.


Default Konsole profiles?

And please, what are the really important things for you? For me all
the really important things have long since been taken care of.


 I'll get a list of things that I have problem with by the end of the week.


Thanks! I'll be here!


 I've installed it using debootstrap sid yesterday. I then pulled the kde4 by
 doing kde-all and deselecting all the things I don't want to have. I could
 send you a package list if you like.

Actually, I'd rather that - if your intention is to help me fix issues
- that you'd simply install the whole default setup. That was the bugs
that you do find will be KDE bugs and not custom-setup bugs. If you
are installing for daily usage, of course, then install just what
suits you.


 It hung few times while installing with dselect (specifically when
 installing policy-kit and bluez/kdebluetooth) so I removed them to complete
 installation

 1) after logging in it complains about some ConsoleKit missing.
 2) I started organizer and went in 20 minutes to bed. In the morning it was
 already running  wow if I knew I would run it with time  to

Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On 11 May 2010 13:50, deloptes delop...@yahoo.com wrote:
 deloptes wrote:

 screenshot - I need at least those app/lets working to even start thinking
 of using kde

 - teatime

p   kteatime   -
KDE 4 utility for making a fine cup of tea

 - weather

http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/yaWP+%28Yet+Another+Weather+Plasmoid%29?content=94106


 - moon

Check!


 - clock/calendar

Check!


 - wireless manager

Knetworkmanager works, but I prefer wicd, which has integration in
KDE's System Settings. It's in the system tray, not on the panel. You
can configure it to always show, though.


 - skype

Integrated into Kopete!


 - korganizer

Check!


 - kwallet

Check!


 - cpu monitor

Check, but you might want to comment here:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172312
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=191341
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=191342


 - infrared control

How did you do this in KDE 3?


 - powermanagement

Check!


 - keyboard

i   plasma-widget-kbstate  - A
plasma widget that shows the state of the modifier keys


 - screen management (xrandr interface)

Yes, built into System Settings.


 - krypt


http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Krypt?content=80641


 I forgot to mention that the keyboard froze after pressing ALT+F2 and
 switching language settings


Please, please comment on this bug:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205369


 A HUGE trouble I see is with the keyboard layout for my mother
 language bulgarian
 Who the hell have change the default keyboard layout for the phonetic setup?
 I've been using this for years now hen I press W I get seomthing
 different ..
 _THIS_ _IS_ _REALLY_ _ODD_ - _STUPID_ _MONKEYS_!


I don't speak Bulgarian, so I cannot reproduce. Please file a bug!


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: Kde 3.5 ...

 Said in a nice way, Dotan could you put this on your list and pass it to kde
 developers. I'm missing for sure the old bulgarian phonetic layout where
 w=в and v=ж and this is a showstopper for me.


I can't, as I am not Bulgarian and I cannot triage. It might even be a
Debian issue, not a KDE issue. If your Debian install has the proper
layout installed and KDE is not finding it, then please file the issue
here:
https://bugs.kde.org/wizard.cgi

-- 
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http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-11 Thread Andrei Popescu

On Tue,11.May.10, 20:58:33, Dotan Cohen wrote:
  Said in a nice way, Dotan could you put this on your list and pass it to kde
  developers. I'm missing for sure the old bulgarian phonetic layout where
  w=в and v=ж and this is a showstopper for me.
 
 
 I can't, as I am not Bulgarian and I cannot triage. It might even be a
 Debian issue, not a KDE issue. If your Debian install has the proper
 layout installed and KDE is not finding it, then please file the issue
 here:
 https://bugs.kde.org/wizard.cgi
 

I'd rather think it's an Xorg issue (specifically the package xkb-data, 
which contains all keyboard maps).

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: Kde 3.5 ...

Andrei Popescu wrote:

 I'd rather think it's an Xorg issue (specifically the package xkb-data,
 which contains all keyboard maps).
 
 Regards,
 Andrei

I'm not quite sure about it. I'll check. AFAIK it's kde mapping (at least it
was in kde3).

cheers


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

Dotan Cohen wrote:

I'm going to write a list and post it here. ATM I can not start korganizer.
I have some time, so I would like to test 4.4.
Thanks for pointing me to known bugs. I really don't have the patience to
search.

p kteatime -
KDE 4 utility for making a fine cup of tea

yes, I can not live without a good cup of tea :-)

- weather

http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/yaWP+%28Yet+Another+Weather+Plasmoid%29?content=94106

This was not working in 4.3 and I couldn't start it in 4.4.

- moon

Check!

agreed

- clock/calendar

Check!

agreed

- wireless manager

Knetworkmanager works, but I prefer wicd, which has integration in
KDE's System Settings. It's in the system tray, not on the panel. You
can configure it to always show, though.

I think I've seen this already, I'll test. thanks.

- skype

Integrated into Kopete!

- korganizer

Check!

it took at least 10min to start

- kwallet

Check!

- cpu monitor

Check, but you might want to comment here:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172312
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=191341
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=191342

I'll check, thanks

- infrared control

How did you do this in KDE 3?

with klirc and lircd and modifying the kernel key map for my cinergy xxs
dvbt card ;-)

a big challenge was to setup the kde keys ... it's not very developed, but
the basic functionality works

- powermanagement

Check!

- keyboard

i plasma-widget-kbstate - A
plasma widget that shows the state of the modifier keys

In kde3 the idiots didn't think of us poor people not using latin and
associated per default ALT+K to switch the keymap. Now if you switch from
english to rushian/bulgarian or whatever ALT+K gives a completely different
keycode ... So I had to always change this.

- screen management (xrandr interface)

Yes, built into System Settings.

yes but not working for me and everybody running i915 vga card. this is also
related to X-Server and the a**holes from intel. (don't judge me the
notebook was given to me from the company I'm working for :-( )

- krypt

http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Krypt?content=80641

the question is if it is compiling in kde4? and also if it is working well

I forgot to mention that the keyboard froze after pressing ALT+F2 and
switching language settings

Please, please comment on this bug:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205369

The problem is that it was not iresponsive for just 10secs but forever.

A HUGE trouble I see is with the keyboard layout for my mother
language bulgarian
Who the hell have change the default keyboard layout for the phonetic
setup? I've been using this for years now hen I press W I get seomthing
different ..
_THIS_ _IS_ _REALLY_ _ODD_ - _STUPID_ _MONKEYS_!

I don't speak Bulgarian, so I cannot reproduce. Please file a bug!

I'll look to get a complete list. We'll have to discuss also the stuff we
don't need too.

this was my first impression. the conclusion is that it will stay unusable
for quite a long time yet.

your commitment is motivating me to do some testing ... may be it's time to
have some closer look at upcoming testing debian.

I'm still not that motivated as I would love to be, as I'm primary focused
on debian stable.

regards

Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-11 Thread Richard Hartmann

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 22:02, deloptes delop...@yahoo.com wrote:

 In kde3 the idiots didn't think of us poor people not using latin and
 associated per default ALT+K to switch the keymap. Now if you switch from
 english to rushian/bulgarian or whatever ALT+K gives a completely different
 keycode ... So I had to always change this.

Maybe I don't understand what you mean, but I switch between English and
German layout with ctrl-alt-k and have been doing so since early KDE 3 or
late KDE 2.

Richard


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

Richard Hartmann wrote:

 On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 22:02, deloptes delop...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
 In kde3 the idiots didn't think of us poor people not using latin and
 associated per default ALT+K to switch the keymap. Now if you switch from
 english to rushian/bulgarian or whatever ALT+K gives a completely
 different keycode ... So I had to always change this.
 
 Maybe I don't understand what you mean, but I switch between English and
 German layout with ctrl-alt-k and have been doing so since early KDE 3 or
 late KDE 2.
 
 Richard

yes, exactly that's what I mean. the latin k has no equivalent in other
languages (in terms of key code). Windows is doing this wisely since the
beginning by setting the switch to ALT+SHIFT, which is language
independent. I like the abbility to change things in kde, so I preffer to
set it to ALT+CTRL+(richt arrow).
In your case german k is equivalent to english k thus switch is working,
for all people using latin. I don't know if it's working for greek or
hebrew. If someone can report it would be interesting to know.

regards




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Re: Kde 3.5 ... (SOLVED)

Dotan Cohen wrote:

 Said in a nice way, Dotan could you put this on your list and pass it to
 kde developers. I'm missing for sure the old bulgarian phonetic layout
 where w=в and v=ж and this is a showstopper for me.

 
 I can't, as I am not Bulgarian and I cannot triage. It might even be a
 Debian issue, not a KDE issue. If your Debian install has the proper
 layout installed and KDE is not finding it, then please file the issue
 here:
 https://bugs.kde.org/wizard.cgi
 

somehow the option appeared after I installed additional cyrillic fonts and
also the console-cyrillic package. may be one of those brought the
definitions back in it could be for real that the issuenot it's not kde
issue.




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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

deloptes wrote:

 I also think the 4.4 version is pretty usable and as soon as all
 applications that I need are usable I will move to kde4.
 

Second impression is pretty good. For sure there are many small things to do
but it looks and feels ok.

I'll look forward to test and file bugs on it and try to get the environment
I'm using now prepared for the move.

What I was thinking of is that it would be better to test upgrades from
lenny to squeeze and then to sid, because it's not only kde that's
changing. I'll have to rebuild and retest the environment.

Did someone know about a german festival version? I have some sources and
it's always a pain to compile.

regards



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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On 11 May 2010 23:02, deloptes delop...@yahoo.com wrote:
- weather

http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/yaWP+%28Yet+Another+Weather+Plasmoid%29?content=94106

This was not working in 4.3 and I couldn't start it in 4.4.

Interesting, it works on the Ubuntu box I test KDE on.

- korganizer

Check!

it took at least 10min to start

Wow. Any console output?

- infrared control

How did you do this in KDE 3?

with klirc and lircd and modifying the kernel key map for my cinergy xxs
dvbt card ;-)

a big challenge was to setup the kde keys ... it's not very developed, but
the basic functionality works

Please, your input is needed here:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=197885

i plasma-widget-kbstate - A
plasma widget that shows the state of the modifier keys

In kde3 the idiots didn't think of us poor people not using latin and
associated per default ALT+K to switch the keymap. Now if you switch from
english to rushian/bulgarian or whatever ALT+K gives a completely different
keycode ... So I had to always change this.

I switch between languages with the Capslock key.
עובד גם בעברית!‏
Работает тоже по Русский!

- screen management (xrandr interface)

Yes, built into System Settings.

yes but not working for me and everybody running i915 vga card. this is also
related to X-Server and the a**holes from intel. (don't judge me the
notebook was given to me from the company I'm working for :-( )

I don't think that's a KDE issue, though.

http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Krypt?content=80641

the question is if it is compiling in kde4? and also if it is working well

It's not a core or even supported app, I think. It's a third-party
app. I really can't help with that.

I forgot to mention that the keyboard froze after pressing ALT+F2 and
switching language settings

Please, please comment on this bug:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=205369

The problem is that it was not iresponsive for just 10secs but forever.

I see. Does that happen often, or only that once?

I'll look to get a complete list. We'll have to discuss also the stuff we
don't need too.

this was my first impression. the conclusion is that it will stay unusable
for quite a long time yet.

your commitment is motivating me to do some testing ... may be it's time to
have some closer look at upcoming testing debian.

I'm still not that motivated as I would love to be, as I'm primary focused
on debian stable.

Thanks. It will stay unusable for you until you tell us what you need
to use it! That's what I'm here for.

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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On 12 May 2010 02:26, deloptes delop...@yahoo.com wrote:
 yes, exactly that's what I mean. the latin k has no equivalent in other
 languages (in terms of key code). Windows is doing this wisely since the
 beginning by setting the switch to ALT+SHIFT, which is language
 independent. I like the abbility to change things in kde, so I preffer to
 set it to ALT+CTRL+(richt arrow).
 In your case german k is equivalent to english k thus switch is working,
 for all people using latin. I don't know if it's working for greek or
 hebrew. If someone can report it would be interesting to know.


In Hebrew it's also problematic, that's why I switch to Capslock.


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On 8 May 2010 22:35, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote:
 2010/5/8 Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com:
 On 8 May 2010 15:32, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote:
 the windows are absolutely useless, i can not
 use many, they have all kind of useless information;

 What useless information? I'd like to fix that if you will be more specific.

 Who are you figuring out you are, man?


A KDE contributor who is trying to help make KDE suitable for you. If
you do not appreciate that then I can just buzz right off, no hard
feelings.


 the menu, needs 3
 times more clicks than 3.5;

 Can you be more specific? Are you referring to Kmenu?

 If this were a kde list, i could take you seriously, but it is not!


The go ahead and post to k...@mail.kde.org or
debian-...@lists.debian.org, I'm subscribed to both.


 the time to be ready to use is 5
 times than 3.5;

 Do you mean the load time of the desktop? I do agree that it takes a
 long time (and the starting Akonaki takes even longer!), but I do not
 remember KDE 3 starting so fast either. The new Gnome starts in
 seconds!

 As i said before! This is a Debian list!

Wow, sorry for trying to help.


 In my case, kde 4.x indicate me when is time to change Desktop, i am
 going to stay with 3.5 still support finish, and then to test others
 desktops which follow the kiss principle. Jo, Jo, Jo.

 When you do that, please mail me (privately or on list with CC to me
 privately) to let me know what features other desktops have that you
 like. I'd like to incorporate them into KDE. Thanks. I highly
 recommend testing Gnome Shell, which will be Gnome 3. A lot of people
 are very happy with it. Ion and Enlightenment are popular too, each
 for their own reasons. XFCE and the boxen might be a little lacking if
 you are used to KDE 3.

 --
 Dotan Cohen

 Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your 
 orders?


Orders? I asked what problems you have, so that I can fix them. You
don't even have to file a bug, I was willing to do that for you. Go
look at the bugs that I've posted in reply to other peoples' issues.
Go look at who is filing them. Oh, sorry, you might take that as an
order and get offended.


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

 :-)  Well said!  And is there not a list rule that replies should go only to
 the list unless a copy is specifically requested?  I find having these
 commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance.  I
 filter for a reason!


Sorry for CCing to you messages that are meant for you, Lisi. If you
haven't noticed the mailing list headers are broken and Reply sends
messages off list. Therefore I use Reply All and oh nos, you get CCed.
I apologize for sending to you commands in your personal folder to
tell me what is wrong with KDE 4 for you so that I might fix it. Fell
free to just plonk me away, I take no offence.


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

 where is the copy-files option in 'edit', dolphin in kde4.x (in 3.5 edit
 copy files in konqueror) or did my old eyes look not sharp enough?


In KDE 4.4.2 I have Edit - Copy in both Dolphin and in Konqueror. Can
you send to me a screenshot of your Edit menu? What KDE version?

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Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread Mihamina Rakotomandimby

 Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com :
 I do not have to give him reasons for my dislike. 

Your mind really suites proprietary softwares.

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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On 9 May 2010 17:00, Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:
 I do *not* ask otherwise and Dotan has been sending long, rude, unpleasant
 emails direct to me.

What long, rude, unpleasant emails have I sent to you? Go ahead,
post everything that I've ever sent to you here. I've sent mails only
as long as the demands of your comments have warranted, filled only
with questions about what is broken for you in KDE 4 and links to bugs
on those very subjects. Rude or unpleasant? I think that you have me
mistaken. I'll give to you the benefit of the doubt, publish something
that you think I wrote to you which is rude or unpleasant.


 That is what I am complaining about.  As I said above,
 *I* have been getting them from Dotan, as you correctly state:  *Lisi*
 shreef . *I* have been getting them.  According to list policy I should
 not be getting them.  In addition, the last one was sent to the KDE list (to
 which I do not subscribe) and not to this, which is the list with the thread.

 Perhaps you should read Dotan's last two emails to me (especially the last
 one) before complaining about my complaint.


Which messages exactly? last two is hard to identify given the
dynamic nature of this list.


 And my crime??  For which you too clearly feel that I should be subjected to
 the unpleasant bullying in emails direct to me?  I use KDE 3, but do not
 intend to use KDE 4.


All I did was ask about what issues you have with KDE 4 so that I
might fix them. You don't have to appreciate that, but I do not expect
you to turn it around and call that rude and unpleasant. Maybe you
don't like KDE contributors taking an interest in your problems with
the software. Many other people do.


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On 9 May 2010 18:02, Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have already forwarded them to the list and would gladly send them on to you
 if you were to ask me to do so.  But list policy is to stay on list unless
 requested to do otherwise. ;-)

 The last one in particular was personal, rude and unpleasant.  He is not
 simply
 quote
 collecting issues with KDE4 and filing the
 to the devs./quote

 He is doing that, but in addition he is bullying people most unpleasantly if
 they do not do his bidding.  I do not use KDE 4 and have no wish to do so.


Please quote where I bullied you.


 The only thing I could have done differently (other than not send that very
 short and mild complaint) is bow down to Dotan and agree that I have no right
 to dislike KDE 4, because he does not find my reasons valid.  I tried to end
 this by simply not replying, but even that did not rescue me - he sent
 another email, to which I again did not reply.  What more could I do, other
 than be very rude myself, to make him go away?


I expect you to dislike KDE 4, as it does not suit your needs! That is
quite why I ask what your problems are, so that I might fix them. I
have never disputed your reasons, rather, I agree that your reasons
are valid and are cause for concern. The only thing that I disagreed
with you was on default settings of composting, and even in that
context I offered to personally design a KDE default configuration for
you that you could have composting disabled  before loading KDE for
the first time. Rude? Unpleasant? I bend over backwards to help you.


 I do not have to give him reasons for my dislike.  I dislike KDE 4 and do not
 use it.  That is surely my right?  I dislike fennel.  No-one tries to
 force-feed me with it!


I clearly stated that my intention is not to try to convince you to
use KDE 4, rather, that my intention is to learn about the problems
that you have with KDE 4 so that I might fix them. You don't have to
help me fix KDE 4, but it is only to your own benefit to do so.
Contributors of what other software have asked you personally about
your problems with the software?


 And surely I have no duty to help Dotan in his single minded ambition to
 impose KDE 4 on all the world?  Many of us do not use it.  Several people
 have been very helpful in sending me comments (_on_ list) on other
 possibilities.

 If he is truly doing what he is doing from altruistic motives, then surely he
 must only help (help) those who want his help, not bully those who
 don't.


No problem, I won't help you any more. You never expressed your desire
that I might not communicate with you, other than complaining that I
do. I get the point, don't worry, I won't ask you about KDE 4 any
more.


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread Lisi

On Monday 10 May 2010 07:25:42 Dotan Cohen wrote:
  :-)  Well said!  And is there not a list rule that replies should go only
  : to
 
  the list unless a copy is specifically requested?  I find having these
  commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance.
   I filter for a reason!

 Sorry for CCing to you messages that are meant for you, Lisi. If you
 haven't noticed the mailing list headers are broken and Reply sends
 messages off list. Therefore I use Reply All and oh nos, you get CCed.
 I apologize for sending to you commands in your personal folder to
 tell me what is wrong with KDE 4 for you so that I might fix it. Fell
 free to just plonk me away, I take no offence.

So how come that your most offensive email was _not_ sent to this list, but to 
the KDE list?  You clearly have some control over the behaviour of your email 
client.


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On 9 May 2010 19:06, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote:
 On Sun May 9 2010 06:18:27 Sjoerd Hardeman wrote:
 It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In
 this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem.

 That is factually incorrect.  Dotan has replied to me+list
 on several occasions without permission.

I did not know that I needed your permission to reply to you.


 From the comments
 here I believe he annoys others similarly.


I apologize for annoying you with questions about what does not work
for you in KDE. Feel free to file your own bugs, to live with the
problems, or to find a suitable replacement. I mean that sincerely, no
hard feelings. There are lots of good DEs around, we are in a golden
era of Linux desktop development.


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On 10 May 2010 09:46, Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:
 Sorry for CCing to you messages that are meant for you, Lisi. If you
 haven't noticed the mailing list headers are broken and Reply sends
 messages off list. Therefore I use Reply All and oh nos, you get CCed.
 I apologize for sending to you commands in your personal folder to
 tell me what is wrong with KDE 4 for you so that I might fix it. Fell
 free to just plonk me away, I take no offence.

 So how come that your most offensive email was _not_ sent to this list, but to
 the KDE list?  You clearly have some control over the behaviour of your email
 client.



I usually simply hit Reply All, as that ensures that the message will
at a minimum go to the list no matter which list I'm posting on. If I
know to which letter you were referring, I might be able to answer you
with more detail. As I don't know to which letter you refer, then we
can assume that the Reply-To headers of the message had that list.
Only now am I delibertely changing the CC of the message, as you
requested not to CC you. Otherwise, my choices are Reply (only to
lisi.re...@~) or to Reply All (to lisi.re...@~ and to debian-u...@~)
so you see that I _cannot_ reply to the list without replying to you
if I do not manually edit the CC list.

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Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread Mihamina Rakotomandimby

 Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com :
 I expect you to dislike KDE 4, as it does not suit your needs! That is
 quite why I ask what your problems are, so that I might fix them.

If that is your task, I tink you'd better skip those non-contructive
comments.
There is a lot of constructive ones, that you can care about.

Anyway, I dont know what are your obligations, but in a community
driven project, I would behave that way.

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Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On 10 May 2010 09:55, Mihamina Rakotomandimby miham...@gulfsat.mg wrote:
 If that is your task, I tink you'd better skip those non-contructive
 comments.
 There is a lot of constructive ones, that you can care about.


You are right, and I should know better than to feed the trolls.
However, when the trolls accuse me then for some reason I feel the
need to defend myself.


 Anyway, I dont know what are your obligations, but in a community
 driven project, I would behave that way.


No obligations! I work on KDE because I like it.


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread Andrei Popescu

On Mon,10.May.10, 09:25:42, Dotan Cohen wrote:
 
 Sorry for CCing to you messages that are meant for you, Lisi. If you
 haven't noticed the mailing list headers are broken and Reply sends
 messages off list. Therefore I use Reply All and oh nos, you get CCed.

http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
http://woozle.org/~neale/papers/reply-to-still-harmful.html

(no, I don't want to start *that* discussion yet again; interested 
people can just search the archives)

I can't tell what mailer you are using, but most of the FLOSS mailers 
have reply-to-list.

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread deloptes

Dotan Cohen wrote:

 On 8 May 2010 22:35, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote:
 2010/5/8 Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com:
 On 8 May 2010 15:32, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote:
 the windows are absolutely useless, i can not
 use many, they have all kind of useless information;

 What useless information? I'd like to fix that if you will be more
 specific.

 Who are you figuring out you are, man?

 
 A KDE contributor who is trying to help make KDE suitable for you. If
 you do not appreciate that then I can just buzz right off, no hard
 feelings.
 
 

Hi, this was the most useless part of this thread that I have ever read.
2-3 mails are ok but about 30 is too much.

I also think that KDE team maid a mistake in dropping support on the 3 line.
Still I'm sure all of us would be able to use it for the next 4-5 years
(probably with backporting).
Unfortunately as it has been stated, we can not stop the time and there are
just few options to take.
Either prepare for using backported kde3 or look forward to get KDE4 behave
like kde3 did or similarly. Definitely Dotans way is the better from my
point of view and I believe that kde4.5 will be as usable as kde3.5 is.

There was a discussion right after they brought the 4.0 out and everybody
was criticizing it. then there was a public campaign (may be still in
youtube) where kde spokesman explained the motivation behind and as kde is
for free I completely understood it.

If someone does not like what kde is doing then he/she is not understanding
how opensource is moving in the future.

I didn't have time to try it yet this weekend ... may be I'll go for a live
cd to check first or finish my usb drive setup.

I also think the 4.4 version is pretty usable and as soon as all
applications that I need are usable I will move to kde4.

kind regards


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread Chris Bannister

On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 03:18:27PM +0200, Sjoerd Hardeman wrote:
 Op 08-05-10 23:42, Lisi schreef:
  On Saturday 08 May 2010 20:35:47 consul tores wrote:
  Dotan Cohen
 
  Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your
  orders?
  
  :-)  Well said!  And is there not a list rule that replies should go only 
  to 
  the list unless a copy is specifically requested?  I find having these 
  commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance.  I 
  filter for a reason!
 It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In
 this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem.
 Please, folks, manners!

And even talking about it is against the code:

 If you want to complain to someone who sent you a carbon copy when you
  did not ask for it, do it privately.

-- 
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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread Chris Bannister

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 09:46:59AM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
 On 9 May 2010 19:06, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote:
  That is factually incorrect.  Dotan has replied to me+list
  on several occasions without permission.
 
 I did not know that I needed your permission to reply to you.
 
  From the comments
  here I believe he annoys others similarly.
 
 I apologize for annoying you with questions about what does not work
 for you in KDE. 

No no no, Mike is referring to the CC'ing annoying others
NOT the message content being annoying.

Is there a few people trying to give up smoking? People seem a bit more
touchy than usual. ... hmmm.

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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread steef


Dotan Cohen schreef:

where is the copy-files option in 'edit', dolphin in kde4.x (in 3.5 edit
copy files in konqueror) or did my old eyes look not sharp enough?

 

In KDE 4.4.2 I have Edit -  Copy in both Dolphin and in Konqueror. Can
you send to me a screenshot of your Edit menu? What KDE version?

   


hi dotan:

that is not exactly what i mean: i was not clear enough: so another time:

i mean in kde 3.5 in the same row as 'copy' under 'edit' the 'copy 
files' possibility that i cannot find back in kde4.x.x
i'll look at exact the version of kde 4.x.x later. this version of kde 
4.x.x is on another (non-production) machine with os debian_sid, up to date.


thanks for your answer,

kind regards,

steef


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On 10 May 2010 14:37, steef debian.li...@home.nl wrote:
 Dotan Cohen schreef:

 where is the copy-files option in 'edit', dolphin in kde4.x (in 3.5 edit
 copy files in konqueror) or did my old eyes look not sharp enough?



 In KDE 4.4.2 I have Edit -  Copy in both Dolphin and in Konqueror. Can
 you send to me a screenshot of your Edit menu? What KDE version?



 hi dotan:

 that is not exactly what i mean: i was not clear enough: so another time:

 i mean in kde 3.5 in the same row as 'copy' under 'edit' the 'copy files'
 possibility that i cannot find back in kde4.x.x
 i'll look at exact the version of kde 4.x.x later. this version of kde 4.x.x
 is on another (non-production) machine with os debian_sid, up to date.

 thanks for your answer,

 kind regards,

 steef


What does copy files do then? Describe to me what it does and I will
see if Dolphin can do that, or if it is reasonable I will file a
feature request.

Thanks.

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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread Mike Bird

On Mon May 10 2010 05:48:37 Dotan Cohen wrote:
 What does copy files do then? Describe to me what it does and I will
 see if Dolphin can do that, or if it is reasonable I will file a
 feature request.

Did you not know KDE has a builtin help system?  Or are you trolling?

Edit-Copy Files (F7)
Copy the selected item(s) to another folder.

--Mike Bird


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread Sjoerd Hardeman


Dotan Cohen schreef:

On 10 May 2010 14:37, steef debian.li...@home.nl wrote:

Dotan Cohen schreef:

where is the copy-files option in 'edit', dolphin in kde4.x (in 3.5 edit
copy files in konqueror) or did my old eyes look not sharp enough?



In KDE 4.4.2 I have Edit -  Copy in both Dolphin and in Konqueror. Can
you send to me a screenshot of your Edit menu? What KDE version?



hi dotan:

that is not exactly what i mean: i was not clear enough: so another time:

i mean in kde 3.5 in the same row as 'copy' under 'edit' the 'copy files'
possibility that i cannot find back in kde4.x.x
i'll look at exact the version of kde 4.x.x later. this version of kde 4.x.x
is on another (non-production) machine with os debian_sid, up to date.

thanks for your answer,

kind regards,

steef



What does copy files do then? Describe to me what it does and I will
see if Dolphin can do that, or if it is reasonable I will file a
feature request.

See http://www.lorentz.leidenuniv.nl/~sjoerd/files/schermafdruk.png.
Translation of the popup-box: copy selected files in /home/sjoerd to:

Cheers!
Sjoerd



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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread steef


Sjoerd Hardeman schreef:

Dotan Cohen schreef:

On 10 May 2010 14:37, steef debian.li...@home.nl wrote:

Dotan Cohen schreef:
where is the copy-files option in 'edit', dolphin in kde4.x (in 
3.5 edit

copy files in konqueror) or did my old eyes look not sharp enough?


In KDE 4.4.2 I have Edit -  Copy in both Dolphin and in Konqueror. 
Can

you send to me a screenshot of your Edit menu? What KDE version?



hi dotan:

that is not exactly what i mean: i was not clear enough: so another 
time:


i mean in kde 3.5 in the same row as 'copy' under 'edit' the 'copy 
files'

possibility that i cannot find back in kde4.x.x
i'll look at exact the version of kde 4.x.x later. this version of 
kde 4.x.x

is on another (non-production) machine with os debian_sid, up to date.

thanks for your answer,

kind regards,

steef



What does copy files do then? Describe to me what it does and I will
see if Dolphin can do that, or if it is reasonable I will file a
feature request.

See http://www.lorentz.leidenuniv.nl/~sjoerd/files/schermafdruk.png.
Translation of the popup-box: copy selected files in /home/sjoerd to:

Cheers!
Sjoerd



thanks sjoerd,

steef


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread steef


Dotan Cohen schreef:

On 10 May 2010 14:37, steefdebian.li...@home.nl  wrote:
   

Dotan Cohen schreef:
 

where is the copy-files option in 'edit', dolphin in kde4.x (in 3.5 edit
copy files in konqueror) or did my old eyes look not sharp enough?


 

In KDE 4.4.2 I have Edit -Copy in both Dolphin and in Konqueror. Can
you send to me a screenshot of your Edit menu? What KDE version?


   

hi dotan:

that is not exactly what i mean: i was not clear enough: so another time:

i mean in kde 3.5 in the same row as 'copy' under 'edit' the 'copy files'
possibility that i cannot find back in kde4.x.x
i'll look at exact the version of kde 4.x.x later. this version of kde 4.x.x
is on another (non-production) machine with os debian_sid, up to date.

thanks for your answer,

kind regards,

steef

 

What does copy files do then? Describe to me what it does and I will
see if Dolphin can do that, or if it is reasonable I will file a
feature request.

Thanks.

   

look at (in my files) the next mail from sjoerd hardeman
[un. of leiden (netherlands)]

thank you,

steef


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On 10 May 2010 16:08, Mike Bird mgb-deb...@yosemite.net wrote:
 On Mon May 10 2010 05:48:37 Dotan Cohen wrote:
 What does copy files do then? Describe to me what it does and I will
 see if Dolphin can do that, or if it is reasonable I will file a
 feature request.

 Did you not know KDE has a builtin help system?

From the fine manual that you refer to:
The Edit Menu
Edit-Undo (Ctrl+Z)
Undoes the last action performed by Dolphin.
Edit-Cut (Ctrl+X)
Cuts the currently selected item(s).
Edit-Copy (Ctrl+C)
Copies the currently selected item(s).
Edit-Paste Clipboard Contents... (Ctrl+V)
Pastes the currently copied/cut items to the current folder. If the
clipboard does not contain files or folders, the clipboard contents
(such as text or image data) will be pasted into a new file.
Edit-Select All (Ctrl+A)
Selects all files and folders in the current folder.
Edit-Invert Selection (Ctrl+Shift+A)
 Selects all unselected items and deselects all selected items in the
current folder.

 Or are you trolling?


You keep using that word. I don't think that it means what you think it means.


 Edit-Copy Files (F7)
 Copy the selected item(s) to another folder.


I can only assume that came from the KDE 3 manual, which I don't have
installed locally as I've stated that I am running KDE 4. Sure, I
could have stfw for it or installed KDE 3, but so could the parent
poster install KDE 4 and file his own bugs. I'm trying to help him, if
you haven't noticed, and your interference is not appreciated. I have
no problem with you looking for opportunities to attack me, but please
don't do that at Steef's expense.


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

 See http://www.lorentz.leidenuniv.nl/~sjoerd/files/schermafdruk.png.
 Translation of the popup-box: copy selected files in /home/sjoerd to:


Here one would type the names of files that he wishes to copy? Does he
then perform a normal paste operation in the destination folder?

One _work_around_ if this is a critical feature would be to press F4
to open a terminal pane in Dolphin, then use the cp command as need.
They let the user type out the name of the files to be copied,
assuming that is the critical feature here. As a bonus you also have
tab-completion and mv!

If I'm missing the gist of the feature then please tell me what I'm
missing. It certainly doesn't look like a killer feature from what I
understand, but of course that is subjective. If it provides something
important I'll file a bug report.


-- 
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http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread Eduardo M KALINOWSKI


On Seg, 10 Mai 2010, Dotan Cohen wrote:

See http://www.lorentz.leidenuniv.nl/~sjoerd/files/schermafdruk.png.
Translation of the popup-box: copy selected files in /home/sjoerd to:



Here one would type the names of files that he wishes to copy? Does he
then perform a normal paste operation in the destination folder?

One _work_around_ if this is a critical feature would be to press F4
to open a terminal pane in Dolphin, then use the cp command as need.
They let the user type out the name of the files to be copied,
assuming that is the critical feature here. As a bonus you also have
tab-completion and mv!

If I'm missing the gist of the feature then please tell me what I'm
missing. It certainly doesn't look like a killer feature from what I
understand, but of course that is subjective. If it provides something
important I'll file a bug report.


I never used the feature (I generally do all my file management with  
cp, mv, etc.), but I believe it worked like this: the user selecs some  
files, activates that option, and provides a folder in the dialog. The  
selected files are then copied to the specified folder.


Nothing that can't be done in other ways inside the same file mangaer;  
it's a convenience feature.




--
Coming together is a beginning;
keeping together is progress;
working together is success.

Eduardo M KALINOWSKI
edua...@kalinowski.com.br


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Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread Mihira Fernando

On Mon, 10 May 2010 17:20:26 +0300
Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com wrote:

  See http://www.lorentz.leidenuniv.nl/~sjoerd/files/schermafdruk.png.
  Translation of the popup-box: copy selected files in /home/sjoerd
  to:
 
 
 Here one would type the names of files that he wishes to copy? Does he
 then perform a normal paste operation in the destination folder?
 
 One _work_around_ if this is a critical feature would be to press F4
 to open a terminal pane in Dolphin, then use the cp command as need.
 They let the user type out the name of the files to be copied,
 assuming that is the critical feature here. As a bonus you also have
 tab-completion and mv!
 
 If I'm missing the gist of the feature then please tell me what I'm
 missing. It certainly doesn't look like a killer feature from what I
 understand, but of course that is subjective. If it provides something
 important I'll file a bug report.
 
 

Its the COPY TO.. Menu option that he's talking about there. Its in the
konqueror's edit menu. 
The user can copy and paste files in one go with that option as it
opens a dialog box asking for the destination. Also I believe it keeps
a list of most used locations as part of the option so that you can
just select from the list.



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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

 I never used the feature (I generally do all my file management with cp, mv,
 etc.), but I believe it worked like this: the user selecs some files,
 activates that option, and provides a folder in the dialog. The selected
 files are then copied to the specified folder.

 Nothing that can't be done in other ways inside the same file mangaer; it's
 a convenience feature.


I see now. Here, comment on this bug:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=237115


Thanks!

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On 10 May 2010 17:34, Mihira Fernando mihirathe...@gmail.com wrote:
 Also I believe it keeps
 a list of most used locations as part of the option so that you can
 just select from the list.



Thanks, you might want to suggest that the Places menu be available in
that dialogue, then, as that is the KDE 4 way of doing it:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=237115

Actually, if it were to use the standard File Chooser dialogue, then
it would have Places. You might want to comment on this bug as well,
which asks that recent locations be added to the File Chooser
dialogue:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104501

-- 
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http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.

On Monday 10 May 2010 01:53:05 Dotan Cohen wrote:
 [M]y choices are Reply (only to
 lisi.re...@~) or to Reply All (to lisi.re...@~ and to debian-u...@~)
 so you see that I _cannot_ reply to the list without replying to you
 if I do not manually edit the CC list.

You should get a better client.  Irrespective of your choice of client, it is 
*your* responsibility to follow the Code of Conduct.  This includes only 
sending CC's to posters the request it.
-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.   ,= ,-_-. =.
b...@iguanasuicide.net  ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread Freeman

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 07:46:37AM +0100, Lisi wrote:
 On Monday 10 May 2010 07:25:42 Dotan Cohen wrote:
   :-)  Well said!  And is there not a list rule that replies should go only
   : to
  
   the list unless a copy is specifically requested?  I find having these
   commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance.
    I filter for a reason!
 
  Sorry for CCing to you messages that are meant for you, Lisi. If you
  haven't noticed the mailing list headers are broken and Reply sends
  messages off list. Therefore I use Reply All and oh nos, you get CCed.
  I apologize for sending to you commands in your personal folder to
  tell me what is wrong with KDE 4 for you so that I might fix it. Fell
  free to just plonk me away, I take no offence.
 
 So how come that your most offensive email was _not_ sent to this list, but 
 to 
 the KDE list?  You clearly have some control over the behaviour of your email 
 client.
 

Dejavu.

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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread Mike Bird

On Mon May 10 2010 07:14:32 Dotan Cohen wrote:
 I can only assume that came from the KDE 3 manual, which I don't have
 installed locally as I've stated that I am running KDE 4.  Sure, I 
 could have stfw for it or installed KDE 3, but so could the parent
 poster install KDE 4 and file his own bugs.

If you want to compare KDE 3.5 and KDE 4 then please install both.

If you want to discuss KDE 4 please do so in a KDE 4 thread.

 I'm trying to help him, if you haven't noticed, and your interference
 is not appreciated. I have no problem with you looking for opportunities
 to attack me, but please don't do that at Steef's expense.

I sent you the help text you asked for.  That is not interfering.

And for the n+1'th time please stop CC'ing me when replying to list.

--Mike Bird


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Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread Brad Rogers

On Mon, 10 May 2010 15:11:45 +0200
Sjoerd Hardeman sjo...@lorentz.leidenuniv.nl wrote:

Hello Sjoerd,

 See http://www.lorentz.leidenuniv.nl/~sjoerd/files/schermafdruk.png.
 Translation of the popup-box: copy selected files in /home/sjoerd to:

Not really needed;

In Dolphin's 'Settings Menu' choose 'Configure Dolphin', and 'General'
then select the Context Menu tab, and make sure the Show 'Copy To' and
'Move To' commands item is ticked.

-- 
 Regards  _
 / )   The blindingly obvious is
/ _)radnever immediately apparent

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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On 10 May 2010 19:56, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. b...@iguanasuicide.net wrote:
 You should get a better client.  Irrespective of your choice of client, it is
 *your* responsibility to follow the Code of Conduct.  This includes only
 sending CC's to posters the request it.

I'll make an effort to edit the CC list, but I'll lapse when I get
lazy! Thanks, Boyd.



-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread consul tores

2010/5/9 Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com:
 On 8 May 2010 22:35, consul tores consultor...@gmail.com wrote:
 2010/5/8 Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com:
 What useless information? I'd like to fix that if you will be more specific.

 Who are you figuring out you are, man?

 A KDE contributor who is trying to help make KDE suitable for you. If
 you do not appreciate that then I can just buzz right off, no hard
 feelings.

I did not ask you for help, the message was for other person, and it
was a comment; then you are not helping; you are an intruder, and a
troll, of course.

 Can you be more specific? Are you referring to Kmenu?

 If this were a kde list, i could take you seriously, but it is not!

 The go ahead and post to k...@mail.kde.org or
 debian-...@lists.debian.org, I'm subscribed to both.

Do you ask for orders? this is one, your speech is well known at
wrongly named developed countries, where people eat people, and many
like you used to use the peace flag to create wars!

 the time to be ready to use is 5
 times than 3.5;

 Do you mean the load time of the desktop? I do agree that it takes a
 long time (and the starting Akonaki takes even longer!), but I do not
 remember KDE 3 starting so fast either. The new Gnome starts in
 seconds!

 As i said before! This is a Debian list!

 Wow, sorry for trying to help.

As i said before, i did not ask you for help; then you are an intruder!

 In my case, kde 4.x indicate me when is time to change Desktop, i am
 going to stay with 3.5 still support finish, and then to test others
 desktops which follow the kiss principle. Jo, Jo, Jo.

 When you do that, please mail me (privately or on list with CC to me
 privately) to let me know what features other desktops have that you
 like. I'd like to incorporate them into KDE. Thanks. I highly
 recommend testing Gnome Shell, which will be Gnome 3. A lot of people
 are very happy with it. Ion and Enlightenment are popular too, each
 for their own reasons. XFCE and the boxen might be a little lacking if
 you are used to KDE 3.

You can see it again, more orders, because i did not ask for your
help, and one easily can distinguish that your speech is absolutely
untruthful and obscure; it is not a plain language. Classic capitalist
language, where you can not be sane. Where you are sorry if you do not
have power in your hands, specialy if you are from an oldest lineage.
It is enough to see how you mix post to appear as a suffered helper,
come on be a man. Accept that you are insane!

 --
 Dotan Cohen

 Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your 
 orders?


 Orders? I asked what problems you have, so that I can fix them. You
 don't even have to file a bug, I was willing to do that for you. Go
 look at the bugs that I've posted in reply to other peoples' issues.
 Go look at who is filing them. Oh, sorry, you might take that as an
 order and get offended.

Again, why do you think that you have the right to help me, if i did
not ask for help? it could be better if you say the true, you want to
look as an important person in the world, that is all.

 --
 Dotan Cohen

if you have some more manipulating speech or something more to say,
please send it to my private email address, i never read them, and we
stop trolling.

francisco

-- 
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Administracion, Produccion, Capacitacion.


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread deloptes


squeeze seem to have 4.3 inside. Did you mean sid to test future
functionality that will probably go into 4.5?? 



kdebase-runtime-data 4:4.3.4-2 etc.

I'll check sid next.

when is squeeze becoming stable??

regards


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread Freeman

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 02:43:32AM +0200, deloptes wrote:

 . . .

 
 when is squeeze becoming stable??
 
 regards
 
 
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According to officialdom, approximately when the number of R-C bugs hits 300. 
That is the green line
here: http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ . Process trumps schedules.

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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-10 Thread Freeman

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 10:40:51PM -0700, evenso wrote:
 On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 02:43:32AM +0200, deloptes wrote:
 
  . . .
 
  
  when is squeeze becoming stable??
  
 
 According to officialdom, approximately when the number of R-C bugs hits 300. 
 That is the green line
 here: http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ . Process trumps schedules.
 

OK, started looking around and found a better answer. :-)

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2010/05/msg0.html

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Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

I seem  not to have forwarded this, although I forwarded the others.  And 
Dotan seems to have circulated it, but not to here.  So, for completeness in 
the thread, herewith:

--  Forwarded Message  --

Subject: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Date: Friday 07 May 2010
From: Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com
To: Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com, debian-...@lists.debian.org

On 7 May 2010 19:54, Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:
 That boils down to it's on by default. Just go turn them off.

 But I have to _look_ at them to turn them off. In KDE 3 I do not. I can turn
 them off without ever having to see them.

Yes, you do have to look at them once.

 And

 the defaults do not have wobbly windows, wavy effects, or anything

 shimmering. Nothing spins either, but the Alt-tab dialogue does slide.

 There is plenty of transparency, though, and I hate that too. So I

 turn it off.

 My mother suffers from what she calls vertigo and the effects do not

 upset her. Nor do they upset the autistics that I volunteer with. They

 are merely an annoyance to those annoyed by them, nothing wild.

 Bully for your mother and your autistics. They make me feel sick and trigger
 a bad headache.

The effects do make you feel sick? The only effects you will see to
get to the System Settings is the transparency. I have a lot of
experience in environmentally-induced reactions (my mother, autistics,
and by the way I am a trained medic though I currently do not work in
the field), and I simply do not believe that transparency will cause a
reaction. Nothing flashes or spins, which are the two established and
recognized visual triggers.

 It works that way in KDE 4 as well, so long as you have opened them

 from Krunner in the past. That is how I open all my applications.

 They do not. They are much more complicated than in KDE 3 and you have to
 type more to be offered anything.

You are right, you must type the first three letters in KDE 4.

  4. Alt+F1 does not bring up the menu.

 It's Alt-F5 for the Kmenu. Has been since KDE 3 I think.

 No, it's alt+F1 in KDE 3.5.x. Alt+F5, which I also like and use a lot,
 brings up a list of running windows.

Thanks, I'm a good year removed from KDE 3. In any case, you can set
Alt-F1 as the Kmenu shortcut.

  5. Kcontrol no longer exists.

 It's called System Settings, and with the Tree menu it's very similar.

 It is being reworked for KDE 4.5, so if you have any suggestions then

 now is the time to make them!

 But I don't _like_ KDE 4 and I do, very much, like KDE 3. I like Kcontrol
 better than those work-arounds.

That's why I'm here. I'm not trying to push you into using KDE 4. I'm
trying to learn what you dislike about KDE 4 so that I can file issues
and get things fixed. But I won't do that on trivial things, such as
non-essential default settings.

  etc etc.

 Tell me more!

 Why? You will only tell me that I have not got your petrmission to
 dislike/miss whatever it is.

No, if you tell me about usability issues, regressions, or just plain
bugs in KDE 4 I will work to resolve them. I have filed or triages
over 1300 bugs in KDE, most for users and not for myself.

 I have not evaded the question. I have pointed out that I prefer things that
 are functional to things that are showy.

You did not point out what is not functional. I am here to fix KDE 4.
I am not here for philosophy.

 As I stated at the beginning. As
 someone else has pointed out, KDE 4 has had 2 years to become half way
 bearable and has signally failed. I mourn the passing of KDE 3.5.x, which I
 regard as the pinnacle of DE's. In other words, we have come full circle and
 are back at the beginning. You have to learn to accept that not everyone
 agrees with you.

I don't want you to agree with me. I want you to point out the
problems so that I can fix them.

 And, I fear that the lengths you are going to to try and persuade me that I
 am wrong, even to the extent of telling me that I am only allowed to be made
 ill by something that also makes your mother ill, do not strike me as
 helping me.

I am not trying to persuade you to do anything other than share your
KDE problems with me, so that I might get them resolved. KDE 3
holdouts are holding out because they are sensitive to the little
usability issues that make a great desktop environment. I need that
input so that I might get KDE 4 as great as KDE 3. I want to know what
is not intuitive, and what doesn't work.

-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com

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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-09 Thread Sjoerd Hardeman

Op 08-05-10 23:42, Lisi schreef:
 On Saturday 08 May 2010 20:35:47 consul tores wrote:
 Dotan Cohen

 Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your
 orders?
 
 :-)  Well said!  And is there not a list rule that replies should go only to 
 the list unless a copy is specifically requested?  I find having these 
 commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance.  I 
 filter for a reason!
It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In
this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem.
Please, folks, manners!

Sjoerd




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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-09 Thread steef





sjoerd: completely agreed!

steef van duin


Sjoerd Hardeman schreef:

Op 08-05-10 23:42, Lisi schreef:
   

On Saturday 08 May 2010 20:35:47 consul tores wrote:
 

Dotan Cohen
 

Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your
orders?
   

:-)  Well said!  And is there not a list rule that replies should go only to
the list unless a copy is specifically requested?  I find having these
commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance.  I
filter for a reason!
 

It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In
this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem.
Please, folks, manners!

Sjoerd


   



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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-09 Thread steef


Dotan Cohen schreef:

No - that is the problem!!  I loved KDE 3.5.x and have become quite slick with
it.  KDE 4 is different.  I don't like it.  If I have to, in effect, change
DE, and go through the learning curve again, there is no reason why it would
have to be to KDE 4.
 

This is a very valid point that seems to be lost on some devs. Other
than the logo, not much is the same between KDE 3 and 4. I will
contend that moving to KDE 4 would be no different that moving to any
other DE. You will notice that I've never pressured you to move to KDE
4, I have only pressured you to tell me what is problematic in KDE 4.
I do that for the simple reason that I help improve KDE 4, and to
bring it up to par with KDE 3. I do not think that any other desktop
has the ambition to be what KDE 3 was.


   

  When the time comes that I cannot sensibly go on using
KDE 3, I shall chose where I go next on the basis of what the options are
looking like at the time.
 

That is wise, and you might enjoy Gnome Shell, that will become Gnome
3. It is very different from KDE 3, but a lot of people really love
it.


   

  I can see little liklihood that that choice will
be KDE 4.  I may even switch to a window manager without a DE, and chose
other ways of working, if that is the only way that I can avoid the glitz
that is now all the rage.

 

You will have to better define glitz. Assuming that you mean
composting, then if your intention is to avoid the glitz, you can do
that in KDE 4. In fact, I think that even XFCE comes with composting
support and integration.


   

How things look is very important to me.  I have problems with my eyes, and
how a thing looks can influence whether I can work on a thing for one minute,
ten minutes or an hour.

 

Then you will have to adjust the default settings of any DE, KDE is
not exception here.


   

I have no problem with other people liking and wanting to use KDE 4.  I have a
problem with their, in some cases, not allowing me the freedom _not_ to use
it.  And I personally shall mourn the passing of KDE 3.

 

Like I said, I am not pressuring you to use KDE 4. I just want to know
what doesn't work for you. And now I know, or I think that I do: you
don't like composting. Would you like me to send to you a KDE config
with composting disabled, that you can enable via CLI before logging
in the first time?


   
where is the copy-files option in 'edit', dolphin in kde4.x (in 3.5 
edit copy files in konqueror) or did my old eyes look not sharp enough?


regards,

steef


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On Sunday 09 May 2010 14:18:27 Sjoerd Hardeman wrote:
 Op 08-05-10 23:42, Lisi schreef:

  On Saturday 08 May 2010 20:35:47 consul tores wrote:
  Dotan Cohen
 
  Who are you in reality? Do you really think that i am going to obey your
  orders?
 
  :-)  Well said!  And is there not a list rule that replies should go only
  : to
 
  the list unless a copy is specifically requested? 

  I find having these 
  commands arriving in my personal (as opposed to list) folder a nuisance. 
  I filter for a reason!
^^^

 It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In
 this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem.

I do *not* ask otherwise and Dotan has been sending long, rude, unpleasant 
emails direct to me.  That is what I am complaining about.  As I said above, 
*I* have been getting them from Dotan, as you correctly state:  *Lisi* 
shreef . *I* have been getting them.  According to list policy I should 
not be getting them.  In addition, the last one was sent to the KDE list (to 
which I do not subscribe) and not to this, which is the list with the thread.

Perhaps you should read Dotan's last two emails to me (especially the last 
one) before complaining about my complaint.

And my crime??  For which you too clearly feel that I should be subjected to 
the unpleasant bullying in emails direct to me?  I use KDE 3, but do not 
intend to use KDE 4.

Lisi


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-09 Thread Sjoerd Hardeman

Op 09-05-10 16:00, Lisi schreef:
 It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In
 this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem.
 
 I do *not* ask otherwise and Dotan has been sending long, rude, unpleasant 
 emails direct to me.  That is what I am complaining about.  As I said above, 
 *I* have been getting them from Dotan, as you correctly state:  *Lisi* 
 shreef . *I* have been getting them.  According to list policy I should 
 not be getting them.  In addition, the last one was sent to the KDE list (to 
 which I do not subscribe) and not to this, which is the list with the thread.
There you have a point.
 
 Perhaps you should read Dotan's last two emails to me (especially the last 
 one) before complaining about my complaint.
Well, that's kind of hard since they are sent to you. Unless you want me
to hack your mailbox ;)
 
 And my crime??  For which you too clearly feel that I should be subjected to 
 the unpleasant bullying in emails direct to me?  I use KDE 3, but do not 
 intend to use KDE 4.
As far as I have seen the mails of Dotan on this list (the one I'm
following), he is currently collecting issues with KDE4 and filing the
to the devs. That in principle is something good, I suppose.
What I have seen is that Dotan might be a bit persistent in getting the
bugs of of you and others. What I have seen from you is that you also
weren't completely friendly all the time. That's why I thought that a
'manners' mail would be appropriate. I am not going to judge who has
begun and who is to blame. I'm just observing that a valid discussion
(what's different in KDE4 and how can it be improved) is getting out of
hand. And it's also up to you to fix that.
Anyway, what's the crime of using KDE3.5? Nothing, except that it's not
supported anymore.

Sjoerd



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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On Sunday 09 May 2010 15:30:35 Sjoerd Hardeman wrote:
  Perhaps you should read Dotan's last two emails to me (especially the
  last one) before complaining about my complaint.

 Well, that's kind of hard since they are sent to you. Unless you want me
 to hack your mailbox ;)

  And my crime??  For which you too clearly feel that I should be subjected
  to the unpleasant bullying in emails direct to me?  I use KDE 3, but do
  not intend to use KDE 4.

 As far as I have seen the mails of Dotan on this list (the one I'm
 following), he is currently collecting issues with KDE4 and filing the
 to the devs.

I have already forwarded them to the list and would gladly send them on to you 
if you were to ask me to do so.  But list policy is to stay on list unless 
requested to do otherwise. ;-)

The last one in particular was personal, rude and unpleasant.  He is not 
simply 
quote
 collecting issues with KDE4 and filing the
 to the devs./quote

He is doing that, but in addition he is bullying people most unpleasantly if 
they do not do his bidding.  I do not use KDE 4 and have no wish to do so. 

The only thing I could have done differently (other than not send that very 
short and mild complaint) is bow down to Dotan and agree that I have no right 
to dislike KDE 4, because he does not find my reasons valid.  I tried to end 
this by simply not replying, but even that did not rescue me - he sent 
another email, to which I again did not reply.  What more could I do, other 
than be very rude myself, to make him go away?

I do not have to give him reasons for my dislike.  I dislike KDE 4 and do not 
use it.  That is surely my right?  I dislike fennel.  No-one tries to 
force-feed me with it!

And surely I have no duty to help Dotan in his single minded ambition to 
impose KDE 4 on all the world?  Many of us do not use it.  Several people 
have been very helpful in sending me comments (_on_ list) on other 
possibilities.  

If he is truly doing what he is doing from altruistic motives, then surely he 
must only help (help) those who want his help, not bully those who 
don't.

Lisi


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-09 Thread Sjoerd Hardeman

Op 09-05-10 17:02, Lisi schreef:
 On Sunday 09 May 2010 15:30:35 Sjoerd Hardeman wrote:
 Perhaps you should read Dotan's last two emails to me (especially the
 last one) before complaining about my complaint.

 Well, that's kind of hard since they are sent to you. Unless you want me
 to hack your mailbox ;)

 And my crime??  For which you too clearly feel that I should be subjected
 to the unpleasant bullying in emails direct to me?  I use KDE 3, but do
 not intend to use KDE 4.

 As far as I have seen the mails of Dotan on this list (the one I'm
 following), he is currently collecting issues with KDE4 and filing the
 to the devs.
 
 I have already forwarded them to the list and would gladly send them on to 
 you 
 if you were to ask me to do so.  But list policy is to stay on list unless 
 requested to do otherwise. ;-)
Then I have seen them. Yes, he's a bit persistent, that's for sure. But
really bullying? Anyway, it is not for me to judge if you feel bullied.
And as I hopefully made clear, the manners comment was surely not just
for you. It's just an attempt to keep the discussion on KDE instead of a
flame war or something similarly unpleasant.
 
 He is doing that, but in addition he is bullying people most unpleasantly if 
 they do not do his bidding.  I do not use KDE 4 and have no wish to do so. 
That's surely your right.
 
 The only thing I could have done differently (other than not send that very 
 short and mild complaint) is bow down to Dotan and agree that I have no right 
 to dislike KDE 4, because he does not find my reasons valid.  I tried to end 
 this by simply not replying, but even that did not rescue me - he sent 
 another email, to which I again did not reply.  What more could I do, other 
 than be very rude myself, to make him go away?
Well, some of your reasons weren't valid. There were several this
doesn't work-claims which just work, at least on my testing install.
Which does not mean that there are no reasons why kde4 is good for you.
The problem I had with some of the comments were that they were unfair.
That something doesn't do as it did somewhere else is not necessarily a
bad thing.
Anyway, let's close this discussion here. I surely agree that KDE4 has
is strengths and weaknesses, and based on your daily routine and
preferences this can be a problem. As with any other DE. I don't like
gnome, which doesn't mean that gnome is bad. It's just bad for me.

Sjoerd



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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-09 Thread Florian Kulzer

On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 15:00:31 +0100, Lisi wrote:

[...]

 I do *not* ask otherwise and Dotan has been sending long, rude, unpleasant 
 emails direct to me.  That is what I am complaining about.

On-list complaints about unsolicited CC'ing are also against the code of
conduct, so you are at least as rude as Dotan is, and you are
bullying all of us to read what should be a private complaint. Pot,
meet kettle.


 As I said above, 
 *I* have been getting them from Dotan, as you correctly state:  *Lisi* 
 shreef . *I* have been getting them.  According to list policy I should 
 not be getting them.  In addition, the last one was sent to the KDE list (to 
 which I do not subscribe) and not to this, which is the list with the thread.

People sometimes make mistakes about CC'ing, especially when they are
having what is essentially the same discussion on two different mailing
lists. There is a reason why the rule to stop public complaints about
CC'ing has been added to the code of conduct; Joey Hess has posted an
informative commentary:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2010/03/msg01846.html

 Perhaps you should read Dotan's last two emails to me (especially the last 
 one) before complaining about my complaint.

I do not see what is so rude about these emails; I have the impression
that Dotan is genuinely interested, if maybe a bit overeager, to make
sure at all possible usability issues of KDE4 are addressed or at least
documented on the upstream BTS. 

If you first complain about the usability of KDE4 and then you are
offended when people who want to improve the usability of KDE4 ask you
about details, then maybe you should not have complained publicly in the
first place. What did you hope to achieve with your complaints if you
are not willing to work constructively on the resolution of the problems
that you experience? 

 And my crime??  For which you too clearly feel that I should be subjected to 
 the unpleasant bullying in emails direct to me?  I use KDE 3, but do not 
 intend to use KDE 4.

That is fine, of course, but why do you bother the list with your
grievances if your mind is already made up and you are not willing to
work with the people who care about making KDE4 better? Do you just want
to use the list as your personal agony aunt?

-- 
Regards,|
  Florian   |


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-09 Thread Mike Bird

On Sun May 9 2010 06:18:27 Sjoerd Hardeman wrote:
 It is a list rule to reply only to list *unless asked otherwise*. In
 this case, Dotan asks otherwise, so what's the problem.

That is factually incorrect.  Dotan has replied to me+list
on several occasions without permission.  From the comments
here I believe he annoys others similarly.

--Mike Bird


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-09 Thread Mike Bird

On Sun May 9 2010 08:20:40 Florian Kulzer wrote:
(snip)
 That is fine, of course, but why do you bother the list with your
 grievances if your mind is already made up and you are not willing to
 work with the people who care about making KDE4 better? Do you just want
 to use the list as your personal agony aunt?

This is a Debian list, not a KDE list.  A lot of people care about
not making Debian worse, and are thereafter taking the time and
making the effort to present the case for not deleting KDE 3.5
from Debian.

While the KDE devs have gone on to new and sillier pastures, KDE 3.5
is apparently maintained at least by the Trinity project and it is
possible that either Trinity or other solutions may yet be developed
that will avoid the planned harm to Debian.

This is a worthwhile discussion for a Debian list.  I would suggest,
however, that follow ups if any be directed to the more focused forum
of debian-kde, to which I have cross-posted this message.

--Mike Bird


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-09 Thread Florian Kulzer

On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 09:18:05 -0700, Mike Bird wrote:
 On Sun May 9 2010 08:20:40 Florian Kulzer wrote:
 (snip)
  That is fine, of course, but why do you bother the list with your
  grievances if your mind is already made up and you are not willing to
  work with the people who care about making KDE4 better? Do you just want
  to use the list as your personal agony aunt?
 
 This is a Debian list, not a KDE list.

That is certainly true, but it seems to me that this argument cuts both
ways, and can be applied just as well to the initial complaints.

 A lot of people care about
 not making Debian worse, and are thereafter taking the time and
 making the effort to present the case for not deleting KDE 3.5
 from Debian.

Probably true, but I do not see what that has to do with the specific
remarks about one particular poster's behavior that you quoted from my
last message. (I think it is clear from my complete message that the
you quoted above is second person singular, not plural.)

 While the KDE devs have gone on to new and sillier pastures, KDE 3.5
 is apparently maintained at least by the Trinity project and it is
 possible that either Trinity or other solutions may yet be developed
 that will avoid the planned harm to Debian.

We will see. I have the feeling that the majority of people who cannot
stand KDE4 will simply switch to one of the other fine DEs (or to Gnome)
in the long run, so it may be difficult to maintain a big enough
community of developers and users to keep the KDE3 projects alive.

 This is a worthwhile discussion for a Debian list.

I never said that it was not. I was expressing my bewilderment with
people who seem to get offended when someone offers to submit upstream
bugs on their behalf if only they would tell him the details of their
problems, just because he may have made a mistake with the CCs. Why not
take him up on his offer, you have to do very little, he will do all the
work? If that leads to some of your problems with KDE 4 being fixed then
you may have one more acceptable alternative available in case the KDE3
zombie turns out to be unmaintainable after all.

-- 
Regards,|
  Florian   |


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

On Sunday 09 May 2010 20:35:00 Florian Kulzer wrote:
 I never said that it was not. I was expressing my bewilderment with
 people who seem to get offended when someone offers to submit upstream
 bugs on their behalf if only they would tell him the details of their
 problems, just because he may have made a mistake with the CCs. Why not
 take him up on his offer, you have to do very little, he will do all the
 work? If that leads to some of your problems with KDE 4 being fixed then
 you may have one more acceptable alternative available in case the KDE3
 zombie turns out to be unmaintainable after all.

It was the tone of his letters that upset me.  I will send you the bits that 
offended me most off-list.

But he _was_ demanding that I should do what from my point of view was 
considerable work, while claiming that he was helping me.  He also refused to 
accept the reasons  I gave as valid.  Why do I need to give him any reasons at 
all for my decisions?

   That is fine, of course, but why do you bother the list with your
   grievances if your mind is already made up and you are not willing to
   work with the people who care about making KDE4 better? Do you just
   want to use the list as your personal agony aunt?

I did not bother the list with my grievances nor use the list as (my) 
personal agony aunt.  I said (and I quote including the text to which I was 
replying):

quote
  Maybe use dummy packages, or rename the packages so that KDE 3.5 could
  remain installed, and not be forced to upgrade to Kde4.

 No, there is not sane way and there is nobody interested on it.

I would be.  And do we not mean Squeeze?  Lenny has KDE 3.5.10.

  I really feel sorry that KDE 3 series is no more being developed, and
  when the day cames that I no longer will be able to use KDE 3, I will
  switch to Apple or even Windows, but NEVER to kde4 or Gnome!
  (and I feel many users out there think like me!!!)

 You still have gnustep, xfce, lxde, no using any or simply never upgrade.

I have looked at all those, in addition to KDE 4 and Gnome.  None appeals to 
me.  Each has something that I strongly dislike or does not have something 
that I like and use a lot.  I would love to be able to upgrade to Squeeze if 
new(er) hardware dictates, but keep KDE 3.5.  But I am not even almost 
tempted to go over to the dark side!

I am, however, very sad that KDE 3.5, which I regard as the pinnacle of DE's, 
is being laid to rest.
/quote

I see no list of grievances.  I said that I am sad that an option I like is no 
longer available.

That is all, and Dotan landed on top of me.  I have also said that I do not 
like various other WMs/DEs.  I am not being forced to justify myself for not 
liking those others.

All I did after that was insist that the discussion be carried on on-list, not 
off.  I was clearly wrong to reply to Dotan at all, and I have learnt my 
lesson.  Next time I will simply ignore him!

But this time, even ignoring him did not make him go away.

Some people on this list have been helpful and made suggestions as to what I 
might like to try.  I am very grateful for it.  It is a pity that you and one 
or two others did not check your facts. 

It is Dotan's right to work to improve KDE 4 if he so wishes, it is not my duty.

Lisi

Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-09 Thread Alan Ianson

On Sun May 9 2010 02:35:02 pm Lisi wrote:

 I am, however, very sad that KDE 3.5, which I regard as the pinnacle of
 DE's, is being laid to rest.

We are in agreement here Lisi. It's not that I don't like kde4 it's just that 
I'd like to keep what I have since it does just what I want/need it to do and 
kde4 is such a big change.

We I'm running lenny like now I use kde3 and am so very happy with it. When 
I'm running squeeze or sid I run Gnome. I like Gnome but it's just not the 
same. I wish I could upgrade to squeeze without losing kde3, or that 
upgrading to kde4 wasn't such a radical change.

I don't know for sure what to to when squeeze is released, I'll probably hang 
on to lenny for as long as it's feasible.


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Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-08 Thread Lisi

Sorry, list - sent to me privately again, and messing up my email client!
--  Forwarded Message  --

Subject: Re: Kde 3.5 ...
Date: Friday 07 May 2010
From: Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com
To: Dotan Cohen dotanco...@gmail.com

On Friday 07 May 2010 17:17:52 you wrote:
 On 7 May 2010 11:56, Lisi lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Thursday 06 May 2010 18:22:18 you wrote:
   You still have gnustep, xfce, lxde, no using any or simply never
   upgrade.

   I have looked at all those, in addition to KDE 4 and Gnome.  None
   appeals to me.  Each has something that I strongly dislike or does not
   have something that I like and use a lot.

  Please tell me what KDE 4.4 is missing, or what it has that you
  dislike. I can help address those issues.

  I doubt it, because I think that the problem is the basic philosophy.
   They have sacrificed funtionality in favour of glitz.

  E.g.
  1. You cannot turn off all those horrible, and to me actually physically
  painful (I have problems with my eyes) special effects _before_ being
  subjected to them.  (All that horrible wobbly, wavy, shimmery, spinning
  transparent glitz.)

 That boils down to it's on by default. Just go turn them off.

But I have to _look_ at them to turn them off.  In KDE 3 I do not.  I can turn 
them off without ever having to see them.

 And
 the defaults do not have wobbly windows, wavy effects, or anything
 shimmering. Nothing spins either, but the Alt-tab dialogue does slide.
 There is plenty of transparency, though, and I hate that too. So I
 turn it off.

 My mother suffers from what she calls vertigo and the effects do not
 upset her. Nor do they upset the autistics that I volunteer with. They
 are merely an annoyance to those annoyed by them, nothing wild.

Bully for your mother and your autistics.  They make me feel sick and trigger 
a bad headache.

  2. ctrl+tab does not move to the next window.

 Do you mean between tabs? Fixed:
 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=231541

  3. alt+F2 is cumbersome and unhelpful.  (In KDE 3.5.x I can type e.g. k
  and be presented with a list of all the applications that I have
  previously used beginning with k.)

 It works that way in KDE 4 as well, so long as you have opened them
 from Krunner in the past. That is how I open all my applications.

They do not.  They are much more complicated than in KDE 3 and you have to 
type more to be offered anything.

  4. Alt+F1 does not bring up the menu.

 It's Alt-F5 for the Kmenu. Has been since KDE 3 I think.

No, it's alt+F1 in KDE 3.5.x.  Alt+F5, which I also like and use a lot, brings 
up a list of running windows.

  5. Kcontrol no longer exists.

 It's called System Settings, and with the Tree menu it's very similar.
 It is being reworked for KDE 4.5, so if you have any suggestions then
 now is the time to make them!

But I don't _like_ KDE 4 and I do, very much, like KDE 3.  I like Kcontrol 
better than those work-arounds.

  etc etc.

 Tell me more!

Why?  You will only tell me that I have not got your petrmission to 
dislike/miss whatever it is.

   I am, however, very sad that KDE 3.5, which I regard as the pinnacle
   of DE's, is being laid to rest.

  Then help me shape it's successor. What is not suitable about KDE 4?

  Why would I rather have a Toyota hatchback (especially a hybrid one) than
  a two seater sports car?

 You evaded the question. I cannot help when you evade the question.

I have not evaded the question.  I have pointed out that I prefer things that 
are functional to things that are showy.  As I stated at the beginning.  As 
someone else has pointed out, KDE 4 has had 2 years to become half way 
bearable and has signally failed.  I mourn the passing of KDE 3.5.x, which I 
regard as the pinnacle of DE's.  In other words, we have come full circle and 
are back at the beginning.  You have to learn to accept that not everyone 
agrees with you.

And, I fear that the lengths you are going to to try and persuade me that I am 
wrong, even to the extent of telling me that I am only allowed to be made ill 
by something that also makes your mother ill, do not strike me as helping me.

Lisi

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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-08 Thread consul tores

2010/5/7 godo go...@dobosevic.com:

 Please do not judge KDE4 by not being a copy of KDE 3.5. If that was the
 case, there would be no point in making a new version anyway. The
 important question is whether KDE lacks functionality that should be
 there (this includes, but is not limited to, functionality present in
 KDE 4) and if that's the case, file a bug report. But of course, don't
 be bothered if the functionality *looks* different. Again, if all the
 functionality would look the same, there would be no point creating a
 new version.

 Sjoerd

 I'm sorry, maybe I'm to new to all this stuff and to old fashioned but isn't
 the point in new version make her free of bugs, faster, lighter etc.? Whats
 happened to KISS?

Yes, it is exact; kde 4.x is the most pathetic and useless that i have
seen in my entire life; the windows are absolutely useless, i can not
use many, they have all kind of useless information; the menu, needs 3
times more clicks than 3.5; the gadgets are absolutely useless, i
prefer using sensors at command line; the time to be ready to use is 5
times than 3.5;  the only one useful change that i have found is that
konqueror works better in kde 4.x; only one single thing, bah. I could
continue using kde 3.5 plus iceweasel!


 When I was on Windows I hate so much when in every new version everything
 was different and I was losing days to find old options.

 There are to much things that are useful in KDE 3 and now are gone.
 What was wrong with system:// in Konqueror, different background for
 different desktop, Quanta, less usage of ram, look and feel.
 All that stuff people love and use in everyday life. Is it cubic desktop
 switching useful? No it's just eye candy.

 I really can't see why is KDE 4 better. If anybody can please explain me
 because I really don't see even one reason.

In my case, kde 4.x indicate me when is time to change Desktop, i am
going to stay with 3.5 still support finish, and then to test others
desktops which follow the kiss principle. Jo, Jo, Jo.


 One more thing, I don't wont offend anybody. That vas just my thought and
 thought of ather people that I see on the net since the KDE 4 came out.
 I know that this mail will not change the thought of developers and this is
 not reason why I was writhing it.
 --
 Bye,
 Goran Dobosevic
 Hrvatski: www.dobosevic.com
  English: www.dobosevic.com/en/
 Registered Linux User #503414

-- 
   Consultores Agropecuarios.
Administracion, Produccion, Capacitacion.


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

2010-05-08 Thread Chris Bannister

On Sat, May 08, 2010 at 08:58:59AM +0100, Lisi wrote:
 I have not evaded the question.  I have pointed out that I prefer things that 
 are functional to things that are showy. 

In that case you might want to consider fvwm?

-- 
Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.
   -- Napoleon Bonaparte


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

 No - that is the problem!!  I loved KDE 3.5.x and have become quite slick with
 it.  KDE 4 is different.  I don't like it.  If I have to, in effect, change
 DE, and go through the learning curve again, there is no reason why it would
 have to be to KDE 4.

This is a very valid point that seems to be lost on some devs. Other
than the logo, not much is the same between KDE 3 and 4. I will
contend that moving to KDE 4 would be no different that moving to any
other DE. You will notice that I've never pressured you to move to KDE
4, I have only pressured you to tell me what is problematic in KDE 4.
I do that for the simple reason that I help improve KDE 4, and to
bring it up to par with KDE 3. I do not think that any other desktop
has the ambition to be what KDE 3 was.


 When the time comes that I cannot sensibly go on using
 KDE 3, I shall chose where I go next on the basis of what the options are
 looking like at the time.

That is wise, and you might enjoy Gnome Shell, that will become Gnome
3. It is very different from KDE 3, but a lot of people really love
it.


 I can see little liklihood that that choice will
 be KDE 4.  I may even switch to a window manager without a DE, and chose
 other ways of working, if that is the only way that I can avoid the glitz
 that is now all the rage.


You will have to better define glitz. Assuming that you mean
composting, then if your intention is to avoid the glitz, you can do
that in KDE 4. In fact, I think that even XFCE comes with composting
support and integration.


 How things look is very important to me.  I have problems with my eyes, and
 how a thing looks can influence whether I can work on a thing for one minute,
 ten minutes or an hour.


Then you will have to adjust the default settings of any DE, KDE is
not exception here.


 I have no problem with other people liking and wanting to use KDE 4.  I have a
 problem with their, in some cases, not allowing me the freedom _not_ to use
 it.  And I personally shall mourn the passing of KDE 3.


Like I said, I am not pressuring you to use KDE 4. I just want to know
what doesn't work for you. And now I know, or I think that I do: you
don't like composting. Would you like me to send to you a KDE config
with composting disabled, that you can enable via CLI before logging
in the first time?


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

 The unexpected forced downgrade from KDE 3.5 to 4 in Sid actually
 ended up being a good thing for me. (the loss of the ability to have a
 different background for each desktop was a KDE showstopper.  So the
 forced downgrade prompted me to actually take a serious look at other
 desktop environments.   And had that not happened, I would not be
 using Enlightenment on all my Linux boxes today.  I have become quite
 enamored with Enlightenment, and now see no need whatsoever to go back
 to KDE or switch to Gnome.

 Granted, I will happily use various KDE and Gnome based tools if
 needed.  That is no big deal.  But E (with the Steampunk theme)  is
 now my environment of choice.  :)  Only drawback so far I have
 encountered is the inability to change the background color on the
 desktop if the wallpaper image does not fill the entire screen.  It
 can be a bit hard on the eyes with that harsh white background, but I
 think I can get used to it.


I understand that Enlightenment has a tiling feature. I would really
like to hear more about that, there is effort to get tiling into KDE:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165933


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...

 I'm sorry, maybe I'm to new to all this stuff and to old fashioned but isn't
 the point in new version make her free of bugs, faster, lighter etc.? Whats
 happened to KISS?

 When I was on Windows I hate so much when in every new version everything
 was different and I was losing days to find old options.

 There are to much things that are useful in KDE 3 and now are gone.

Please tell me what is missing for you. I will address those that you
mention below, and I would appreciate if you mention others that you
think of. Thanks.


 What was wrong with system:// in Konqueror,

What did the system kioslave do? I don't have KDE 3 here to test.


 different background for
 different desktop,

Fixed in KDE 4.4 or 4.5.


 Quanta,

Being ported, and not a core KDE app in any case.


 less usage of ram,

So long as you are not loading Qt3 libraries in addition to the Qt4
libraries, KDE 4 is lighter on RAM than KDE 3. You can really feel it,
too.


 look and feel.

It is subjective. You can generally configure KDE 4 to look like KDE 3.


 All that stuff people love and use in everyday life.

You're not married, are you? :) That stuff never stops changing!


 Is it cubic desktop
 switching useful? No it's just eye candy.


Actually, spatial organization is very useful as it is most natural
for humans. Users who have shied away from multiple desktops love it.


 I really can't see why is KDE 4 better. If anybody can please explain me
 because I really don't see even one reason.


Okular was my reason for switching, and that's saying a lot as KPDF
was great. Kate is as it was for the most part, other that the new
search-replace dialogue (that I don't like) and VIM mode (that I
love). Kopete has Skype integration (needs Skype installed, though). I
really like having different folders shown on the desktop.

Nothing really compelling, but then again KDE 3 did not have any one
really compelling feature. It's the sum of the parts.


 One more thing, I don't wont offend anybody. That vas just my thought and
 thought of ather people that I see on the net since the KDE 4 came out.
 I know that this mail will not change the thought of developers and this is
 not reason why I was writhing it.


Your thoughts are appreciated, and they are valuable. I _want_ to know
what keeps you on KDE 3, so that I can get it fixed in KDE 4.


-- 
Dotan Cohen

http://bido.com
http://what-is-what.com


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Re: Fwd: Re: Kde 3.5 ...