Re: mail tags in kmail?

[Anssi Saari]

Hans  writes:

> Dear list,
>
> does anyone know, where kmail is storing its tags for mails? The tags I mean 
> are those like "already read".

I've never done that but maybe this helps, from
https://docs.kde.org/stable5/en/kmail/kmail2/faq.html#transfer-mail-and-settings:

6.10. How do I transfer my mail and settings to another computer (or to
another user account on the same machine)?

Use Tools -> Import/Export KMail Data... to import and export settings
and data. Please see PIM Setting Exporter for details.

Re: mail --> mutt

[Alex Muntada]

Hola, Ernest:

> El fet que l'MTA tingui una cua interna de missatges (a
> diferència d'un MUA), no veig que sigui gaire rellevant,
> ja que l'únic que fa l'MTA local és connectar-se a l'MTA
> extern (és l'escenari que estavem discutint).

Quan aquesta connexió al MTA extern falla, et pot interessar
tenir una cua local per no perdre missatges. Potser en el cas
d'una persona no perquè el MUA ja li dirà que ha fallat la
connexió, és clar. Però si hi ha d'altres casos en què conviuen
una persona i algun procés que envia correu al MTA extern,
aquí podria tenir sentit un MTA local amb una cua perquè, si
falla la connexió, el procés no podrà enviar el correu (què se'n
farà depèn del MUA del procés, és clar).

> Per altra banda, quin MTA extern penseu utilitzar?

Qualsevol que ja et doni servei al MUA o un de corporatiu,
si el correu s'envia des de dins d'una organització que ho
permet.

Per exemple, si el meu correu està a Gandi i m'hi connecto amb
Mutt normalment via SMTP, podria configurar el meu MTA local per
enviar el correu sortint via Gandi utilitzant les mateixes
credencials d'usuari. Jo no tinc configurat el meu MTA local així
perquè no tinc processos que enviïn correus cap a fora dels meus
equips de treball, però hi ha gent que ho fa i així pot utilitzar
qualsevol MUA local per enviar correu.

A la xarxa interna de la UPC tenim un MTA al que podem enviar
missatges que vagin a qualsevol lloc sense autenticar-nos. Així,
qualsevol servidor el pot utilitzar per enviar correu fàcilment.

Espero haver-me explicat millor.

Salut,
Alex

--
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Re: mail --> mutt

[Alex Muntada]

Hola, Eloi:

> Ho dic perquè hi ha una opció més potent fent servir sieve

Jo només he vist Sieve en servidors IMAP (cyrus, dovecot, etc.) i
no sabia que també es podia utilitzar en local (gràcies!).

Altres eines per a filtrar que he conec són procmail i mailfilter.

Salut,
Alex

--
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Re: mail --> mutt

[Ernest Adrogué]

2023-07- 8, 07:20 (+0200); Xavier Drudis Ferran escriu:
> El Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 01:39:30PM +, Ernest Adrogué deia:
> > 2023-07- 7, 09:59 (+0200); Narcis Garcia escriu:
> > > Em sembla que l'Alex es referia a aquest recorregut per a «smarthost»:
> > > MUA (Mutt) -> MTA local -> MTA públic
> > > 
> > > Amb això, el servidor públic de correu-e és el què ha d'acreditar-se a
> > > Internet com a fiable per als filtres anti-brossa.
> > 
> > En aquest cas ho trobo una complicació innecessària.
> > 
> > L'MUA es pot connectar directament a l'MTA públic, sense necessitat de
> > passar per l'MTA local, que no aporta res, o pràcticament res.
> > 
> 
> Si ho tens clar ja ho tens clar.
> 
> Però un MTA local pot aportar cues (esperar a poder enviar) i
> lliurament a adreces locals que no existeixen al MTA públic.
> 
> Segur que li pòts buscar més coses, però aquestes són les principals
> que em passen pel cap. Crec que l'Alex ja anava per aquí.

En el meu missatge recomano utilitzar un MTA local per permetre
l'enviament de correu a adreces locals.  Per tant, no estic recomanant
no utilizar MTAs locals, en general.  Només recomano no utilitzar-los
per enviar correu a adreces externes (a no ser que siguis una
organització que tingui la infrastructura necessària).

El fet que l'MTA tingui una cua interna de missatges (a diferència d'un
MUA), no veig que sigui gaire rellevant, ja que l'únic que fa l'MTA
local és connectar-se a l'MTA extern (és l'escenari que estavem
discutint).  En aquest escenari, qui gestiona la cua de missatges és
l'MTA extern.

Per altra banda, quin MTA extern penseu utilitzar?  No hi ha gaires
alternatives.  Gmail?  Penseu que és bona idea forçar tot el correu que
s'origina localment a través de l'MTA de Gmail?  Jo crec que no, jo crec
que és una idea terrible.  La decisió de quin MTA extern utilitzar és
millor deixar-la en mans de l'usuari.

Un altre problema, si no recordo malament, és que alguns MUAs afegeixen
una advertència quan l'adreça que s'autentica a l'MTA extern no
coincideix amb l'adreça del destinatari.  El destinatari veu dos
remitents, i un text que diu que el missatge l'envia un remitent per
compte de l'altre.  Pot generar confusió, i a més revela informació que
potser és millor no revelar.


> Si això no et convé, o no et compensa, no tens perquè tenir MTA local,
> com menys coses millor, només és una idea que t'han donat.

Exacte, només és una idea, i com qualsevol idea té arguments a favor i
arguments en contra, i això és el que estem debatent.


Salutacions.

Re: mail --> mutt

[Xavier Drudis Ferran]

El Fri, Jul 07, 2023 at 01:39:30PM +, Ernest Adrogué deia:
> 2023-07- 7, 09:59 (+0200); Narcis Garcia escriu:
> > Em sembla que l'Alex es referia a aquest recorregut per a «smarthost»:
> > MUA (Mutt) -> MTA local -> MTA públic
> > 
> > Amb això, el servidor públic de correu-e és el què ha d'acreditar-se a
> > Internet com a fiable per als filtres anti-brossa.
> 
> En aquest cas ho trobo una complicació innecessària.
> 
> L'MUA es pot connectar directament a l'MTA públic, sense necessitat de
> passar per l'MTA local, que no aporta res, o pràcticament res.
> 

Si ho tens clar ja ho tens clar.

Però un MTA local pot aportar cues (esperar a poder enviar) i
lliurament a adreces locals que no existeixen al MTA públic.

Segur que li pòts buscar més coses, però aquestes són les principals
que em passen pel cap. Crec que l'Alex ja anava per aquí.

Si això no et convé, o no et compensa, no tens perquè tenir MTA local,
com menys coses millor, només és una idea que t'han donat.

Re: mail --> mutt

[Ernest Adrogué]

2023-07- 7, 09:59 (+0200); Narcis Garcia escriu:
> Em sembla que l'Alex es referia a aquest recorregut per a «smarthost»:
> MUA (Mutt) -> MTA local -> MTA públic
> 
> Amb això, el servidor públic de correu-e és el què ha d'acreditar-se a
> Internet com a fiable per als filtres anti-brossa.

En aquest cas ho trobo una complicació innecessària.

L'MUA es pot connectar directament a l'MTA públic, sense necessitat de
passar per l'MTA local, que no aporta res, o pràcticament res.

Salutacions.

Re: mail --> mutt

[Narcis Garcia]

El 7/7/23 a les 9:39, Ernest Adrogué ha escrit:

2023-07- 5, 21:51 (+0200); Alex Muntada escriu:

Hola, Ernest:


No és recomanable utilitzar postfix per enviar correu a
internet. El més pràctic és utilitzar el postfix (o un altre
MTA) per enviar correu localment al mateix ordinador, i si els
usuaris volen enviar correu a internet que utilitzin un client
de correu (com el mutt) que permeti enviar correu a través d'un
servidor de correu remot (com Gmail).


M'havia quedant pendent de respondre aquest tema: això depèn de
les necessitats particulars. En concret, és molt habitual tenir
un MTA configurat amb un smarthost per processar tot el correu
que no és local, sobretot als servidors.

Per exemple, si enlloc de deixar en local els missatges que
t'envia el cron, els vols rebre a una altra bústia remota, el
MTA local ho pot fer perfectament via smarthost.

Tenir un MTA local, a més a més, pot ser útil per encuar els
missatges de sortida quan no tens connexió a internet. Potser
alguns MUA ho reintentaran, però d'altres no (per exemple, Mutt
ha començat a reintentar connexions des de fa poc) i el MTA local
fa de coixí.


Tinc entès que les mesures anti-spam fan que aquest sistema no sigui
viable a la pràctica.  Per exemple: l'MTA local pot enviar correu sense
problemes quan el domini de l'adreça del remitent no coincideix amb el
domini de l'MTA, o en aquests casos l'MTA del destinatari tendeix a
rebutjar el correu?

Salutacions.



Em sembla que l'Alex es referia a aquest recorregut per a «smarthost»:
MUA (Mutt) -> MTA local -> MTA públic

Amb això, el servidor públic de correu-e és el què ha d'acreditar-se a 
Internet com a fiable per als filtres anti-brossa.


--

Narcis Garcia

__
I'm using this dedicated address because personal addresses aren't 
masked enough at this mail public archive. Public archive administrator 
should fix this against automated addresses collectors.

Re: mail --> mutt

[Ernest Adrogué]

2023-07- 5, 21:51 (+0200); Alex Muntada escriu:
> Hola, Ernest:
> 
> > No és recomanable utilitzar postfix per enviar correu a
> > internet. El més pràctic és utilitzar el postfix (o un altre
> > MTA) per enviar correu localment al mateix ordinador, i si els
> > usuaris volen enviar correu a internet que utilitzin un client
> > de correu (com el mutt) que permeti enviar correu a través d'un
> > servidor de correu remot (com Gmail).
> 
> M'havia quedant pendent de respondre aquest tema: això depèn de
> les necessitats particulars. En concret, és molt habitual tenir
> un MTA configurat amb un smarthost per processar tot el correu
> que no és local, sobretot als servidors.
> 
> Per exemple, si enlloc de deixar en local els missatges que
> t'envia el cron, els vols rebre a una altra bústia remota, el
> MTA local ho pot fer perfectament via smarthost.
> 
> Tenir un MTA local, a més a més, pot ser útil per encuar els
> missatges de sortida quan no tens connexió a internet. Potser
> alguns MUA ho reintentaran, però d'altres no (per exemple, Mutt
> ha començat a reintentar connexions des de fa poc) i el MTA local
> fa de coixí.

Tinc entès que les mesures anti-spam fan que aquest sistema no sigui
viable a la pràctica.  Per exemple: l'MTA local pot enviar correu sense
problemes quan el domini de l'adreça del remitent no coincideix amb el
domini de l'MTA, o en aquests casos l'MTA del destinatari tendeix a
rebutjar el correu?

Salutacions.

Re: mail --> mutt

[Eloi]

El 16/6/23 a les 21:26, Jordi ha escrit:

[...]


2023-06-15, 10:29 (+0200); Jordi escriu:

Ja fa un temps vaig voler configurar postfix i alguna altra cosa
i no
me'n vaig sortir, el que tinc ara son aplicacions que envien
notificacions o redirigeixo la sortida a mail o a mutt segons si
vull
local o remotament.


Entenc que filtres el correu segons qui el genera. Ho dic perquè hi ha 
una opció més potent fent servir sieve (el que uso jo està al paquet del 
GNU mailutils). En la configuració que tinc a la feina (la consulto quan 
hi arribi, ho vaig muntar fa temps) redirigeixo correus locals del cron 
d'un mateix usuari segons criteris tal com l'assumpte o una paraula clau 
del cos a diferents bústies locals, de tal forma que em resulta molt més 
fàcil anar a cercar quelcom si ho necessito, puix en alguns casos tinc 
correus cada cinc minuts.


En el meu cas faig redireccions a bústies locals, però el llenguatge de 
sieve permet moltes més possibilitats, entre elles el reenviament de 
correus. Clar que, per això, necessites que el teu agent de correu local 
pugui fer entrega remota, el que ens porta a la segona part.



Exacte, algunes notificacions amb mail i altres més importants amb mutt
perquè arribin a l'ordinador de casa via el servidor de correu que
utilitzo (runbox). És així per evitar que al final, i com ha passat
alguna vegada, per algun error s'han enviat massa notificacions i al
final van a la carpeta spam o bé em passo de quota.

La meva primera opció era enviar totes les notificacions directament a
l'ordinador de casa, però ho vaig descartar perquè no tenia forma de
veure si era prou segur, i tampoc vull deixar un sucós servidor smtp
mal configurat.


Una cosa que podries provar és si l'enviament directe de correu des del 
servidor que el genera a la teva bústia funciona. Això depèn de bastants 
factors i pot ser que avui funcioni i demà ja no: és una opció que no 
recomano si els correus són importants i/o el muntatge ha de durar en el 
temps. Ajuda bastant que el servidor que l'enviï tingui IP fixa.


Alternativament, també si el remitent té IP fixa, podries arribar a 
configurar un SMTP d'entrada local a destinació però limitant-lo, tant a 
configuració del propi MTA (exim4 ho permet) com a nivell de tallafoc 
per acceptar connexions únicament des de la direcció IP que t'interessa, 
i en cap cas permetent el relay de correu.

Re: mail --> mutt

[Alex Muntada]

Hola, Ernest:

> No és recomanable utilitzar postfix per enviar correu a
> internet. El més pràctic és utilitzar el postfix (o un altre
> MTA) per enviar correu localment al mateix ordinador, i si els
> usuaris volen enviar correu a internet que utilitzin un client
> de correu (com el mutt) que permeti enviar correu a través d'un
> servidor de correu remot (com Gmail).

M'havia quedant pendent de respondre aquest tema: això depèn de
les necessitats particulars. En concret, és molt habitual tenir
un MTA configurat amb un smarthost per processar tot el correu
que no és local, sobretot als servidors.

Per exemple, si enlloc de deixar en local els missatges que
t'envia el cron, els vols rebre a una altra bústia remota, el
MTA local ho pot fer perfectament via smarthost.

Tenir un MTA local, a més a més, pot ser útil per encuar els
missatges de sortida quan no tens connexió a internet. Potser
alguns MUA ho reintentaran, però d'altres no (per exemple, Mutt
ha començat a reintentar connexions des de fa poc) i el MTA local
fa de coixí.

Ara bé, em sembla intuir que la teva recomanació va en la línia
de no tenir un MTA públic, és a dir, tenir un servidor propi de
correu per enviar i rebre missatges de tot Internet. Si és això,
totalment d'acord amb tu. Si algú està interessat en les raons,
podem obrir un fil a part.

Salut!
Alex

--
  ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
  ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁   Alex Muntada 
  ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋   Debian Developer  log.alexm.org
  ⠈⠳⣄



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Re: mail --> mutt

[Jordi]

Gracies per les respostes i perdoneu que trigui a contestar, però a la
feina no puc mirar el correu (per falta de temps)

El dj. 15 de 06 de 2023 a les 20:57 +0200, en/na Narcis Garcia va
escriure:
> El 15/6/23 a les 18:05, Ernest Adrogué ha escrit:
> > 2023-06-15, 10:29 (+0200); Jordi escriu:
> > > Ja fa un temps vaig voler configurar postfix i alguna altra cosa
> > > i no
> > > me'n vaig sortir, el que tinc ara son aplicacions que envien
> > > notificacions o redirigeixo la sortida a mail o a mutt segons si
> > > vull
> > > local o remotament.
> > 
> > Vols dir que amb el mail envies correu a adreces locals i amb el
> > mutt a
> > adreces d'internet?
> 
> Suposo que no es referia en ordre respectiu.

Exacte, algunes notificacions amb mail i altres més importants amb mutt
perquè arribin a l'ordinador de casa via el servidor de correu que
utilitzo (runbox). És així per evitar que al final, i com ha passat
alguna vegada, per algun error s'han enviat massa notificacions i al
final van a la carpeta spam o bé em passo de quota.

La meva primera opció era enviar totes les notificacions directament a
l'ordinador de casa, però ho vaig descartar perquè no tenia forma de
veure si era prou segur, i tampoc vull deixar un sucós servidor smtp
mal configurat. 

A part de l'ordinador de casa tinc dues Raspberry PI situades a
diferents punts geogràfics i volia estalviar-me el mosh que faig a
diari, enviant totes les notificacions via internet.

De moment ho deixaré com ho tinc

Gracies

Jordi
> 
> > > Amb això, segons les configuracions de les aplicacions si fico
> > > que
> > > enviïn el correu per exemple a jomat...@correumeu.cat simplement
> > > no
> > > envien res.
> > > 
> > > Mai he aconseguit configurar correctament postfix perquè enviï el
> > > correu al mateix ordinador, la mateixa xarxa o internet segons
> > > les
> > > meves necessitats. Tampoc vull deixar un servidor de smtp
> > > accessible
> > > des d'internet.
> > 
> > No és recomanable utilitzar postfix per enviar correu a internet. 
> > El
> > més pràctic és utilitzar el postfix (o un altre MTA) per enviar
> > correu
> > localment al mateix ordinador, i si els usuaris volen enviar correu
> > a
> > internet que utilitzin un client de correu (com el mutt) que
> > permeti
> > enviar correu a través d'un servidor de correu remot (com Gmail).
> 
> Postfix, igual com EXIM i Sendmail, és un «agent de transport de
> correu» 
> (MTA) i, com a tal, està ben orientat a l'admissió i transmissió de 
> cartes via SMTP, és a dir amb Internet.
> Com que està pensat per als serveis massius i ben exposats als
> elements, 
> convé configurar-lo adequadament, i val la pena si es tracten
> múltiples 
> comptes i que són utilitzables des d'Internet.
> 
> Però m'ha sembla que en Jordi tracta aquests enviaments de correu-e 
> només per a notificacions molt personalitzades.
> 
> > Llavors, per llegir el correu jo el que tinc és un servidor IMAP
> > local
> > (dovecot) i d'aquesta manera puc utilitzar qualsevol client de
> > correu
> > que em vingui de gust.  Les bústies locals estan sincronitzades amb
> > les
> > bústies remotes allotjades al meu proveïdor de correu mitjançant un
> > programa que es diu offlineimap.
> 
> Dovecot, igual com el Courier-IMAP, és principalment un «agent
> d'entrega 
> de correu» (MDA) i, com a tal, està ben orientat a dipositar i
> processar 
> cartes a bústies, i fer les bústies mitjançant comptes POP i/o IMAP.
> També pot fer d'intermediari d'altres MDA, tal com el Postfix pot fer
> d'intermediari d'altres MTA.
> 
> > D'aquesta manera està tot integrat.  Tant el correu local com el
> > d'internet va a parar a les mateixes bústies, i puc treballar
> > indistintament amb les bústies locals com amb les remotes (per
> > exemple,
> > amb webmail) ja que totes tenen el mateix correu.
> 
> M.Thunderbird, K-9 Mail, Roundcube i Mutt són «agents d'usuari de 
> correu» (MUA) que, com a tals, estan orientats a utilitzar els
> serveis 
> de MTA i MDA per a enviar, llegir i organitzar cartes de correu 
> electrònic. Són la interfície aparent del concepte de correu
> electrònic.
> 
> Val la pena esmentar la comanda «mail» del sistema operatiu GNU, que 
> està pensada per a enviar instantàniament un correu a través del MTA
> que 
> ja tinguis funcionant al mateix host, o el «swaks» que fa el mateix
> amb 
> el servei SMTP que li indiquis.
> i també val la pena esmentar plataformes web com NextCloud o Citadel,
> que inclouen MUA entre moltes coses.
> 
> Per a fer solament notificacions, jo faig servir sovint el «mail» o
> el 
> «swaks», un o altre en funció de si l'ordinador té o no té funcionant
> un 
> MTA propi.

Re: mail --> mutt

[Narcis Garcia]

El 15/6/23 a les 18:05, Ernest Adrogué ha escrit:

2023-06-15, 10:29 (+0200); Jordi escriu:

Ja fa un temps vaig voler configurar postfix i alguna altra cosa i no
me'n vaig sortir, el que tinc ara son aplicacions que envien
notificacions o redirigeixo la sortida a mail o a mutt segons si vull
local o remotament.


Vols dir que amb el mail envies correu a adreces locals i amb el mutt a
adreces d'internet?


Suposo que no es referia en ordre respectiu.


Amb això, segons les configuracions de les aplicacions si fico que
enviïn el correu per exemple a jomat...@correumeu.cat simplement no
envien res.

Mai he aconseguit configurar correctament postfix perquè enviï el
correu al mateix ordinador, la mateixa xarxa o internet segons les
meves necessitats. Tampoc vull deixar un servidor de smtp accessible
des d'internet.


No és recomanable utilitzar postfix per enviar correu a internet.  El
més pràctic és utilitzar el postfix (o un altre MTA) per enviar correu
localment al mateix ordinador, i si els usuaris volen enviar correu a
internet que utilitzin un client de correu (com el mutt) que permeti
enviar correu a través d'un servidor de correu remot (com Gmail).


Postfix, igual com EXIM i Sendmail, és un «agent de transport de correu» 
(MTA) i, com a tal, està ben orientat a l'admissió i transmissió de 
cartes via SMTP, és a dir amb Internet.
Com que està pensat per als serveis massius i ben exposats als elements, 
convé configurar-lo adequadament, i val la pena si es tracten múltiples 
comptes i que són utilitzables des d'Internet.


Però m'ha sembla que en Jordi tracta aquests enviaments de correu-e 
només per a notificacions molt personalitzades.



Llavors, per llegir el correu jo el que tinc és un servidor IMAP local
(dovecot) i d'aquesta manera puc utilitzar qualsevol client de correu
que em vingui de gust.  Les bústies locals estan sincronitzades amb les
bústies remotes allotjades al meu proveïdor de correu mitjançant un
programa que es diu offlineimap.


Dovecot, igual com el Courier-IMAP, és principalment un «agent d'entrega 
de correu» (MDA) i, com a tal, està ben orientat a dipositar i processar 
cartes a bústies, i fer les bústies mitjançant comptes POP i/o IMAP.
També pot fer d'intermediari d'altres MDA, tal com el Postfix pot fer 
d'intermediari d'altres MTA.



D'aquesta manera està tot integrat.  Tant el correu local com el
d'internet va a parar a les mateixes bústies, i puc treballar
indistintament amb les bústies locals com amb les remotes (per exemple,
amb webmail) ja que totes tenen el mateix correu.


M.Thunderbird, K-9 Mail, Roundcube i Mutt són «agents d'usuari de 
correu» (MUA) que, com a tals, estan orientats a utilitzar els serveis 
de MTA i MDA per a enviar, llegir i organitzar cartes de correu 
electrònic. Són la interfície aparent del concepte de correu electrònic.


Val la pena esmentar la comanda «mail» del sistema operatiu GNU, que 
està pensada per a enviar instantàniament un correu a través del MTA que 
ja tinguis funcionant al mateix host, o el «swaks» que fa el mateix amb 
el servei SMTP que li indiquis.
i també val la pena esmentar plataformes web com NextCloud o Citadel, 
que inclouen MUA entre moltes coses.


Per a fer solament notificacions, jo faig servir sovint el «mail» o el 
«swaks», un o altre en funció de si l'ordinador té o no té funcionant un 
MTA propi.

--

Narcis Garcia

__
I'm using this dedicated address because personal addresses aren't 
masked enough at this mail public archive. Public archive administrator 
should fix this against automated addresses collectors.

Re: mail --> mutt

[Ernest Adrogué]

2023-06-15, 10:29 (+0200); Jordi escriu:
> Ja fa un temps vaig voler configurar postfix i alguna altra cosa i no
> me'n vaig sortir, el que tinc ara son aplicacions que envien
> notificacions o redirigeixo la sortida a mail o a mutt segons si vull
> local o remotament.

Vols dir que amb el mail envies correu a adreces locals i amb el mutt a
adreces d'internet?

> Amb això, segons les configuracions de les aplicacions si fico que
> enviïn el correu per exemple a jomat...@correumeu.cat simplement no
> envien res.
> 
> Mai he aconseguit configurar correctament postfix perquè enviï el
> correu al mateix ordinador, la mateixa xarxa o internet segons les
> meves necessitats. Tampoc vull deixar un servidor de smtp accessible
> des d'internet.

No és recomanable utilitzar postfix per enviar correu a internet.  El
més pràctic és utilitzar el postfix (o un altre MTA) per enviar correu
localment al mateix ordinador, i si els usuaris volen enviar correu a
internet que utilitzin un client de correu (com el mutt) que permeti
enviar correu a través d'un servidor de correu remot (com Gmail).

Llavors, per llegir el correu jo el que tinc és un servidor IMAP local
(dovecot) i d'aquesta manera puc utilitzar qualsevol client de correu
que em vingui de gust.  Les bústies locals estan sincronitzades amb les
bústies remotes allotjades al meu proveïdor de correu mitjançant un
programa que es diu offlineimap.

D'aquesta manera està tot integrat.  Tant el correu local com el
d'internet va a parar a les mateixes bústies, i puc treballar
indistintament amb les bústies locals com amb les remotes (per exemple,
amb webmail) ja que totes tenen el mateix correu.


Salutacions.

Re: mail --> mutt

[Jordi]

El dc. 14 de 06 de 2023 a les 16:32 +, en/na Ernest Adrogué va
escriure:
> 2023-06-14, 11:02 (+0200); Jordi escriu:
> > Bon dia, ja sé que em donareu altres opcions però voldria redirigir
> > determinats correus locals a mutt de forma automàtica.
> > 
> > És a dir correu llegit amb mail que compleixi determinades
> > condicions,
> > redirigir-lo a mutt. Em podeu orientar ??
> 
> No em queda clar què vols aconseguir.
> 
> mutt és un programa client de correu, que obté el correu de bústies
> locals, o d'un servidor.
> 
> No és possible "redirigir el correu a mutt", perquè mutt no és una
> bústia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Salutacions.
> 

Ja fa un temps vaig voler configurar postfix i alguna altra cosa i no
me'n vaig sortir, el que tinc ara son aplicacions que envien
notificacions o redirigeixo la sortida a mail o a mutt segons si vull
local o remotament.

Amb això, segons les configuracions de les aplicacions si fico que
enviïn el correu per exemple a jomat...@correumeu.cat simplement no
envien res.

Mai he aconseguit configurar correctament postfix perquè enviï el
correu al mateix ordinador, la mateixa xarxa o internet segons les
meves necessitats. Tampoc vull deixar un servidor de smtp accessible
des d'internet.

Salutacions

Jordi

Re: mail --> mutt

[Ernest Adrogué]

2023-06-14, 11:02 (+0200); Jordi escriu:
> Bon dia, ja sé que em donareu altres opcions però voldria redirigir
> determinats correus locals a mutt de forma automàtica.
> 
> És a dir correu llegit amb mail que compleixi determinades condicions,
> redirigir-lo a mutt. Em podeu orientar ??

No em queda clar què vols aconseguir.

mutt és un programa client de correu, que obté el correu de bústies
locals, o d'un servidor.

No és possible "redirigir el correu a mutt", perquè mutt no és una bústia.




Salutacions.

Re: mail --> mutt

[Antoni Villalonga]

Hola,

On Wed, Jun 14, 2023 at 11:49:18AM +0200, Xavier Drudis Ferran wrote:
> El Wed, Jun 14, 2023 at 11:02:36AM +0200, Jordi deia:
> > Bon dia, ja sé que em donareu altres opcions però voldria redirigir
> > determinats correus locals a mutt de forma automàtica.
> > 
> > És a dir correu llegit amb mail que compleixi determinades condicions,
> > redirigir-lo a mutt. Em podeu orientar ??
> > 
> > 
> > Salutaciosn 
> > 
> > Jordi. 
> > 
> 
> No t'entenc ? Vols procmail o alguna cosa així ?

Com a alternativa al procmail: maildrop

Vaig migrar fa uns anys ja no recordo per quina limitació i n'estic prou
content.

Salut!

-- 
Antoni Villalonga
https://friki.cat/

Re: mail --> mutt

[Xavier Drudis Ferran]

El Wed, Jun 14, 2023 at 11:02:36AM +0200, Jordi deia:
> Bon dia, ja sé que em donareu altres opcions però voldria redirigir
> determinats correus locals a mutt de forma automàtica.
> 
> És a dir correu llegit amb mail que compleixi determinades condicions,
> redirigir-lo a mutt. Em podeu orientar ??
> 
> 
> Salutaciosn 
> 
> Jordi. 
> 

No t'entenc ? Vols procmail o alguna cosa així ?
Vols moure correus de carpeta ? O enviar-los per smtp ? O ... ?

Re: mail headers not set (cf question re tar)

[Max Nikulin]

On 24/09/2022 02:37, jr wrote:

On Thursday, 22 September 2022 at 16:30:05 UTC+1, Max Nikulin wrote:

...
Debian mail list archive has a rare mhonarc configuration that adds
reply to list action (usually only reply to sender is available) and
these mailto: links contain proper In-Reply-To value
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/09/msg00584.html

Even groups.google.com is unable to render proper discussion tree, its
representation is a list.

Mail user agents may intentionally suppress threads based on heuristics
to avoid combining unrelated discussions having subjects like "question"
or "problem".


thanking all for the observations + information.  I have had a look in
settings of Gmail, my "mua", and cannot find an obvious (any!) place
where headers could be set (and haven't the knowledge, anyhow).  so, I
won't try and start any more threads for now (for which sorry) and
hope that someone can/will supply Gmail specific instructions "how
to"; to that end please write an email with 'mail headers' in the
subject, thank you.


Sorry, I rarely use gmail web UI, in my case "mailto:; links are handled 
by thunderbird. If the browser app is the only mail user agent available 
on your chromebook and it can not handle In-Reply-To link parameter then 
it is sour. Since you mentioned groups.google.com, does it set proper 
headers when reply to particular message is sent using this service? 
However it looks like a kind vendor lock to their own mail list archive 
due to unsatisfactory support of primary external archives.

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[David Christensen]

On 8/20/22 23:36, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

 Hi,
 I'm having problem with my actuel email provider (the one that goes 
with  my web hosting plan) ...

... would you have any suggestion for a service ?




On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, David Christensen wrote:


I have had a domain host plan (DNS, WWW, mail, shell) with Hurricane 
Electric for 20 years or so, and am pleased with their service:


he.net



On 8/21/22 09:26, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> David,
> I am sure you  are respecting security, but can we have a way to
> research hurricane  electrics mail shell options?
> Thanks,


Yes, you can -- browse Hurricane Electric's web site and/or contact sales.


David

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[rhkramer]

On Sunday, August 21, 2022 01:09:09 PM Karen Lewellen wrote:
> Well, if we are going to plug services, shellworld is fantastic!
> Even under new management service remains profoundly wonderful.
> My personal site is hosted here too, with my paying $60 for both
> accounts.

Is that shellworld.net?  I don't find anything at shellworld.com, and what I 
get on the homepage of shellworld.net is not very helpful -- doesn't seem to 
lead me to any list of features or way to sign up.


-- 
rhk

If you reply: snip, snip, and snip again; leave attributions; avoid HTML; 
avoid top posting; and keep it "on list".  (Oxford comma included at no 
charge.)  If you change topics, change the Subject: line. 

Writing is often meant for others to read (legal agreements excepted?) -- make 
it easier for your reader by various means, including liberal use of 
whitespace.

If someone else has already responded to a question, decide whether any 
response you add will be helpful or not ...

A picture is worth a thousand words -- divide by 10 for each minute of video 
(or audio) or create a transcript and edit it to 10% of the original.

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[Karen Lewellen]

suppose that applies to Jude as well.



On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, john doe wrote:


On 8/21/2022 8:30 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Can you stop hijacking this thread and stop promoting your own interest.

--
John Doe

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[john doe]

On 8/21/2022 8:30 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

Can you stop hijacking this thread and stop promoting your own interest.

--
John Doe

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[Karen Lewellen]

Wow, that is profoundly unfortunate.
Did you ever investigate via the admin at the time?
Have been with shellworld  more than 20 years now.  makes me wonder if 
that was back in the   block an address suspected,  even with no reason, 
days?
Microsoft did that to me to hotmail, and the admin at the time for 
shellworld worked with me to fix that issue.

Karen



On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Jude DaShiell wrote:


After I got blacklisted on shellworld.net I moved on to panix.com with
much dislocation some of which took me a couple years to correct.  The
blacklisting wasn't done by shellworld.net either.  I found out about the
blacklisting by looking my shellworld.net address up with google and the
one that posted this information did so on gmane.


Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Karen Lewellen wrote:


Well, if we are going to plug services, shellworld is fantastic!
Even under new management service remains profoundly wonderful.
My personal site is hosted here too, with my paying $60 for both accounts.
Not to cast a cloud on Jude's suggestion below, but my personal efforts to
explore Panix were quite  reprehensible, hinting that perhaps new clients,
depending on circumstances,  may not enjoy comparative service.
Karen



On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Jude DaShiell wrote:


I have had a telnet account with panix.com I think for 8 years and service
has been excellent.  Webmail is also available for those that want it.
Telnet accounts here cost $100 per year.  I chose telnet since I do better
with cli than gui.


Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, David Christensen wrote:


On 8/20/22 23:36, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

Hi,
I'm having problem with my actuel email provider (the one that goes with
my web hosting plan). It deals badly with mailing list and now has
started to having delivery problem to email hosted by outlook.com . I
believe their email server (SMTP) are being badly flagged.

As many of you are long term server and TI operator, would you have any
suggestion for a service ?

I don't want to pay a huge fee as I don't send much email. Maybe 10-20
per day at most.

I was looking on Postmark because it seems to have a good delivery
ranking.

I'd like a good email provider, as I ain't sure this (Postmark) will fix
all my delivery problem. Would it be better to get a paying plain with
Protonmail, who do offer a plan with IMAP/SMTP ?

Thanks



I have had a domain host plan (DNS, WWW, mail, shell) with Hurricane
Electric
for 20 years or so, and am pleased with their service:

he.net


David

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[Jude DaShiell]

After I got blacklisted on shellworld.net I moved on to panix.com with
much dislocation some of which took me a couple years to correct.  The
blacklisting wasn't done by shellworld.net either.  I found out about the
blacklisting by looking my shellworld.net address up with google and the
one that posted this information did so on gmane.


Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Karen Lewellen wrote:

> Well, if we are going to plug services, shellworld is fantastic!
> Even under new management service remains profoundly wonderful.
> My personal site is hosted here too, with my paying $60 for both accounts.
> Not to cast a cloud on Jude's suggestion below, but my personal efforts to
> explore Panix were quite  reprehensible, hinting that perhaps new clients,
> depending on circumstances,  may not enjoy comparative service.
> Karen
>
>
>
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Jude DaShiell wrote:
>
> > I have had a telnet account with panix.com I think for 8 years and service
> > has been excellent.  Webmail is also available for those that want it.
> > Telnet accounts here cost $100 per year.  I chose telnet since I do better
> > with cli than gui.
> >
> >
> > Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
> > defense of liberty:
> > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
> >
> > .
> >
> > On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, David Christensen wrote:
> >
> >> On 8/20/22 23:36, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>> I'm having problem with my actuel email provider (the one that goes with
> >>> my web hosting plan). It deals badly with mailing list and now has
> >>> started to having delivery problem to email hosted by outlook.com . I
> >>> believe their email server (SMTP) are being badly flagged.
> >>>
> >>> As many of you are long term server and TI operator, would you have any
> >>> suggestion for a service ?
> >>>
> >>> I don't want to pay a huge fee as I don't send much email. Maybe 10-20
> >>> per day at most.
> >>>
> >>> I was looking on Postmark because it seems to have a good delivery
> >>> ranking.
> >>>
> >>> I'd like a good email provider, as I ain't sure this (Postmark) will fix
> >>> all my delivery problem. Would it be better to get a paying plain with
> >>> Protonmail, who do offer a plan with IMAP/SMTP ?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >> I have had a domain host plan (DNS, WWW, mail, shell) with Hurricane
> >> Electric
> >> for 20 years or so, and am pleased with their service:
> >>
> >> he.net
> >>
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 12:39:18PM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> I have had a telnet account with panix.com I think for 8 years and service
> has been excellent.  Webmail is also available for those that want it.
> Telnet accounts here cost $100 per year.  I chose telnet since I do better
> with cli than gui.

Please tell me that "telnet account" is a historical term, and that you
actually use ssh to access it.

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[Karen Lewellen]

Well, if we are going to plug services, shellworld is fantastic!
Even under new management service remains profoundly wonderful.
My personal site is hosted here too, with my paying $60 for both 
accounts.
Not to cast a cloud on Jude's suggestion below, but my personal efforts to 
explore Panix were quite  reprehensible, hinting that perhaps new clients, 
depending on circumstances,  may not enjoy comparative service.

Karen



On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, Jude DaShiell wrote:


I have had a telnet account with panix.com I think for 8 years and service
has been excellent.  Webmail is also available for those that want it.
Telnet accounts here cost $100 per year.  I chose telnet since I do better
with cli than gui.


Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, David Christensen wrote:


On 8/20/22 23:36, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

Hi,
I'm having problem with my actuel email provider (the one that goes with
my web hosting plan). It deals badly with mailing list and now has
started to having delivery problem to email hosted by outlook.com . I
believe their email server (SMTP) are being badly flagged.

As many of you are long term server and TI operator, would you have any
suggestion for a service ?

I don't want to pay a huge fee as I don't send much email. Maybe 10-20
per day at most.

I was looking on Postmark because it seems to have a good delivery ranking.

I'd like a good email provider, as I ain't sure this (Postmark) will fix
all my delivery problem. Would it be better to get a paying plain with
Protonmail, who do offer a plan with IMAP/SMTP ?

Thanks



I have had a domain host plan (DNS, WWW, mail, shell) with Hurricane Electric
for 20 years or so, and am pleased with their service:

he.net


David

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[Jude DaShiell]

I have had a telnet account with panix.com I think for 8 years and service
has been excellent.  Webmail is also available for those that want it.
Telnet accounts here cost $100 per year.  I chose telnet since I do better
with cli than gui.


Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, David Christensen wrote:

> On 8/20/22 23:36, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I'm having problem with my actuel email provider (the one that goes with
> > my web hosting plan). It deals badly with mailing list and now has
> > started to having delivery problem to email hosted by outlook.com . I
> > believe their email server (SMTP) are being badly flagged.
> >
> > As many of you are long term server and TI operator, would you have any
> > suggestion for a service ?
> >
> > I don't want to pay a huge fee as I don't send much email. Maybe 10-20
> > per day at most.
> >
> > I was looking on Postmark because it seems to have a good delivery ranking.
> >
> > I'd like a good email provider, as I ain't sure this (Postmark) will fix
> > all my delivery problem. Would it be better to get a paying plain with
> > Protonmail, who do offer a plan with IMAP/SMTP ?
> >
> > Thanks
>
>
> I have had a domain host plan (DNS, WWW, mail, shell) with Hurricane Electric
> for 20 years or so, and am pleased with their service:
>
> he.net
>
>
> David
>
>
>

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[Karen Lewellen]

David,
I am sure you  are respecting security, but can we have a way to research 
hurricane  electrics mail shell options?

Thanks,



On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, David Christensen wrote:


On 8/20/22 23:36, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

 Hi,
 I'm having problem with my actuel email provider (the one that goes with
 my web hosting plan). It deals badly with mailing list and now has
 started to having delivery problem to email hosted by outlook.com . I
 believe their email server (SMTP) are being badly flagged.

 As many of you are long term server and TI operator, would you have any
 suggestion for a service ?

 I don't want to pay a huge fee as I don't send much email. Maybe 10-20
 per day at most.

 I was looking on Postmark because it seems to have a good delivery
 ranking.

 I'd like a good email provider, as I ain't sure this (Postmark) will fix
 all my delivery problem. Would it be better to get a paying plain with
 Protonmail, who do offer a plan with IMAP/SMTP ?

 Thanks



I have had a domain host plan (DNS, WWW, mail, shell) with Hurricane Electric 
for 20 years or so, and am pleased with their service:


he.net


David

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[David Christensen]

On 8/20/22 23:36, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

Hi,
I'm having problem with my actuel email provider (the one that goes with
my web hosting plan). It deals badly with mailing list and now has
started to having delivery problem to email hosted by outlook.com . I
believe their email server (SMTP) are being badly flagged.

As many of you are long term server and TI operator, would you have any
suggestion for a service ?

I don't want to pay a huge fee as I don't send much email. Maybe 10-20
per day at most.

I was looking on Postmark because it seems to have a good delivery ranking.

I'd like a good email provider, as I ain't sure this (Postmark) will fix
all my delivery problem. Would it be better to get a paying plain with
Protonmail, who do offer a plan with IMAP/SMTP ?

Thanks



I have had a domain host plan (DNS, WWW, mail, shell) with Hurricane 
Electric for 20 years or so, and am pleased with their service:


he.net


David

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[Will Mengarini]

Eskimo.com is $7/month for mail + Linux shell access
(multiple servers, various distributions including Debian).

* Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
  [22-08/21=Su 02:36 -0400]:
> Hi,
> I'm having problem with my actuel email provider (the one that goes with
> my web hosting plan). It deals badly with mailing list and now has
> started to having delivery problem to email hosted by outlook.com . I
> believe their email server (SMTP) are being badly flagged.
>
> As many of you are long term server and TI operator, would you have any
> suggestion for a service ?
>
> I don't want to pay a huge fee as I don't send much email. Maybe 10-20
> per day at most.
>
> I was looking on Postmark because it seems to have a good delivery ranking.
>
> I'd like a good email provider, as I ain't sure this (Postmark) will fix
> all my delivery problem. Would it be better to get a paying plain with
> Protonmail, who do offer a plan with IMAP/SMTP ?
>
> Thanks
> -- 
> Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
> -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[John Hasler]

Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> I'd like a good email provider, as I ain't sure this (Postmark) will
> fix all my delivery problem. Would it be better to get a paying plain
> with Protonmail, who do offer a plan with IMAP/SMTP ?

It's always better to get a paid plan.  I've been using Pobox for a year
or so and I'm quite pleased with the service.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[fxkl47BF]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022, mick.crane wrote:

> On 2022-08-21 07:36, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>
>> I'd like a good email provider, as I ain't sure this (Postmark) will
>> fix
>> all my delivery problem. Would it be better to get a paying plain with
>> Protonmail, who do offer a plan with IMAP/SMTP ?
>
> People have recommended posteo.de
> They seem reliable and painless.
> mick
>

I used posteo.de for a year.
Dropped it in favor of protonmail.
Been using them for about 2 years and very happy.

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[Gregor Zattler]

Hi Polyna-Maude,
* Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  [2022-08-21; 02:36]:
> I'm having problem with my actuel email provider (the one that goes with
> my web hosting plan). It deals badly with mailing list and now has
> started to having delivery problem to email hosted by outlook.com . I
> believe their email server (SMTP) are being badly flagged.
>
> As many of you are long term server and TI operator, would you have any
> suggestion for a service ?
>
> I don't want to pay a huge fee as I don't send much email. Maybe 10-20
> per day at most.
>
> I was looking on Postmark because it seems to have a good delivery ranking.
>
> I'd like a good email provider, as I ain't sure this (Postmark) will fix
> all my delivery problem. Would it be better to get a paying plain with
> Protonmail, who do offer a plan with IMAP/SMTP ?

Thomas already mentioned mailbox.org.

If you want to send email with an email address in the From:
header which is your own (your own domain after the @ sign),
as I think you do now, then that is possible with
mailbox.org, but only with their "Standard" plan (3,- EUR /
month) or above:

https://kb.mailbox.org/en/business/e-mail-article/using-e-mail-addresses-of-your-domain

In order for mailbox.org to know that you own your domain
you have to set txt records for your domain.  Later for the
system to work you have to (at least) set spf records for
your domain.

At my job I use this service of theirs and so far it works
great.


Ciao; Gregor
--
 -... --- .-. . -.. ..--.. ...-.-

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[mick.crane]

On 2022-08-21 07:36, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

I'd like a good email provider, as I ain't sure this (Postmark) will 
fix

all my delivery problem. Would it be better to get a paying plain with
Protonmail, who do offer a plan with IMAP/SMTP ?


People have recommended posteo.de
They seem reliable and painless.
mick

Re: Mail Transfer Agent

[tomas]

On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 02:36:15AM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm having problem with my actuel email provider (the one that goes with
> my web hosting plan). It deals badly with mailing list and now has
> started to having delivery problem to email hosted by outlook.com . I
> believe their email server (SMTP) are being badly flagged.

FWIW, every normal person has issues delivering to the Microsofties
(outlook.com, hotmail.com). They are like that [0].

> As many of you are long term server and TI operator, would you have any
> suggestion for a service ?

I usually recommend posteo.de [1]. Not affiliated in any way, but I know
quite a few happy users. Also mailbox.org [2].

Cheers

[0] A friend of mine works as admin for an academic site. The name
   and IP addresses come from academic resources. Outlook was bouncing
   their mails until he started bouncing Outlook's mails: when the
   people on the other side complained, he directed them to complain
   to their provider, Outlook. That worked.
[1] https://posteo.de/en
[2] https://mailbox.org/en/

-- 
t


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Re: mail monitoring

[Philipp Ewald]

Hi,

i mean Server's sending all messages to our main mail account - like script 
outputs, general errors from services, kern.log and so on.

we do already use mailfilter to direct same mails into same directory.
my goal is it to read less mails -> only mails with (unkown) errors

But spamassassin maybe is a good idea -> so i can filter mails i know there are 
good or maybe bayes will help

thanks

Am 22.06.22 um 13:35 schrieb Dan Ritter:

Philipp Ewald wrote:

Hello guys,


our server sending all message to our main Mail Account.
Thats good we don't wanna change that. All Server sending all messages to this 
address, mostly its not important.


I want to define "good" messages (with regex?) that can be filtered. Is there a 
software that already can do this?



Are you looking for software that:

- runs on the mail server, rejecting mail as it comes in?
SpamAssassin.

- runs on the mail server, filtering mail as it is delivered to
users?
Sieve or mailfilter or procmail (don't use procmail)

- runs on a recipient's computer, filtering mail after it is
pulled via IMAP?
Look for tools built in to your mail client, or use imapsync to
retrieve the mail and mailfilter to sort it.

-dsr-



--
Philipp Ewald
Administrator

Re: mail monitoring

[Dan Ritter]

Philipp Ewald wrote: 
> Hello guys,
> 
> 
> our server sending all message to our main Mail Account.
> Thats good we don't wanna change that. All Server sending all messages to 
> this address, mostly its not important.
> 
> 
> I want to define "good" messages (with regex?) that can be filtered. Is there 
> a software that already can do this?


Are you looking for software that:

- runs on the mail server, rejecting mail as it comes in?
SpamAssassin.

- runs on the mail server, filtering mail as it is delivered to
users? 
Sieve or mailfilter or procmail (don't use procmail)

- runs on a recipient's computer, filtering mail after it is
pulled via IMAP?
Look for tools built in to your mail client, or use imapsync to
retrieve the mail and mailfilter to sort it.

-dsr-

Re: mail service

[황병희]

deloptes  writes:

> fxkl47BF wrote:
>
>> no offense taken
>> i use expect_mkpasswd to generate passwords
>> decades ago i got tired of trying to come up with user names
>> i just use expect_mkpasswd to make a short unique name
>> today everyone is trying to glean all of the personal info they can
>> i try not give out any more than is necessary
>
> but we are still human and at least I prefer seeing a human like name and
> not some scribles, but ofcourse it is your choice how you appear in the
> public.

+1;

Sincerely, Byung-Hee from South Korea

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: mail service

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 10 oct 21, 10:31:58, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > In general, the circumstances which would require one to use a tool like
> > protonmail are not commonly observed in connection with a list like
> > debian-user.
> 
> While protonmail might be used for such situations, in my experience
> most protonmail users I've seen are just people that are sufficiently
> technically aware to know that they should stay away from gmail and
> friends and look for a quality email provider (posteo being another
> popular provider in that space).
> 
> So, my own bias would rather tend to expect good behavior (good
> questions and good answers) from participants posting from
> protonmail ;-)

To add to this, usually the contents of the message are much more 
revealing, e.g. use of punctuation and capitalisation ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: mail service

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 10 oct 21, 17:18:13, fxkl47BF wrote:
> just one more thing
> 
> posteo was mentioned as an alternative
> i have a posteo account i will drop in a few months
> their spam policy is to bounce it back to the sender
> the account own has no say
> 
> i also have a mailfence account i will drop
> a while back i stopped getting mail from my bank
> i investigated and found the bank mail was generating a false positive virus
> i informed mailfence and they agreed it was probably the cause of my trouble
> but they didn't bother to fix it
> several months later they started passing mail from my bank

With ProtonMail I've only had trouble receiving automatic stuff like 
notifications[1].

Those are often similar enough to spam to be difficult to distinguish 
from actual spam.

For one particular (in)famous social network I solved it by activating 
encrypted notifications[2].

[1] That I know of, of course. ;)
[2] Was positively surprised to learn they offer this.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: mail service

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Du, 10 oct 21, 13:41:33, fxkl47BF wrote:
> 
> once again i totally agree and disagree
> gmail, yahoo, gmx, etc. state that they scan mail going through their service

They are free to scan all my postings to a publicly archived list, same 
as the rest of the internet ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: mail service

[deloptes]

fxkl47BF wrote:

> no offense taken
> i use expect_mkpasswd to generate passwords
> decades ago i got tired of trying to come up with user names
> i just use expect_mkpasswd to make a short unique name
> today everyone is trying to glean all of the personal info they can
> i try not give out any more than is necessary

but we are still human and at least I prefer seeing a human like name and
not some scribles, but ofcourse it is your choice how you appear in the
public.

-- 
FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: mail service

[Brian]

On Sun 10 Oct 2021 at 19:46:39 +, fxkl47BF wrote:

[Mangled quoted text deleted]

> > You have a link to a statement of this policy?
> >
> > -
> >
> > Brian.
> 
> i do not
> only a personal email from supp...@posteo.de

I tend to take such mails from an ISP's front-line support with a pinch
of salt and not as gospel.

-- 
Brian.

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: mail service

[fxkl47BF]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Sunday, October 10th, 2021 at 1:46 PM, Brian  wrote:

> On Sun 10 Oct 2021 at 17:18:13 +, fxkl47BF wrote:
>
> > just one more thing
> >
> > posteo was mentioned as an alternative
> >
> > i have a posteo account i will drop in a few months
> >
> > their spam policy is to bounce it back to the sender
> >
> > the account own has no say
>
> You have a link to a statement of this policy?
>
> -
>
> Brian.

i do not
only a personal email from supp...@posteo.de

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: mail service

[Brian]

On Sun 10 Oct 2021 at 17:18:13 +, fxkl47BF wrote:

> just one more thing
> 
> posteo was mentioned as an alternative
> i have a posteo account i will drop in a few months
> their spam policy is to bounce it back to the sender
> the account own has no say

You have a link to a statement of this policy?

-- 
Brian.

[OFFTOPIC] Re: mail service

[Stefan Monnier]

> In general, the circumstances which would require one to use a tool like
> protonmail are not commonly observed in connection with a list like
> debian-user.

While protonmail might be used for such situations, in my experience
most protonmail users I've seen are just people that are sufficiently
technically aware to know that they should stay away from gmail and
friends and look for a quality email provider (posteo being another
popular provider in that space).

So, my own bias would rather tend to expect good behavior (good
questions and good answers) from participants posting from
protonmail ;-)


Stefan

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: mail service

[fxkl47BF]

just one more thing

posteo was mentioned as an alternative
i have a posteo account i will drop in a few months
their spam policy is to bounce it back to the sender
the account own has no say

i also have a mailfence account i will drop
a while back i stopped getting mail from my bank
i investigated and found the bank mail was generating a false positive virus
i informed mailfence and they agreed it was probably the cause of my trouble
but they didn't bother to fix it
several months later they started passing mail from my bank

some times you have to kiss a lot of frogs

Re: [OFFTOPIC] Re: mail service

[fxkl47BF]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Sunday, October 10th, 2021 at 9:31 AM, Stefan Monnier 
 wrote:

> > In general, the circumstances which would require one to use a tool like
> >
> > protonmail are not commonly observed in connection with a list like
> >
> > debian-user.
>
> While protonmail might be used for such situations, in my experience
>
> most protonmail users I've seen are just people that are sufficiently
>
> technically aware to know that they should stay away from gmail and
>
> friends and look for a quality email provider (posteo being another
>
> popular provider in that space).
>
> So, my own bias would rather tend to expect good behavior (good
>
> questions and good answers) from participants posting from
>
> protonmail ;-)
>
> Stefan

well put
you're a much better wordsmith than i

Re: mail service

[fxkl47BF]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Sunday, October 10th, 2021 at 9:30 AM, Reco  wrote:

> Hi.
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 01:44:50PM +, fxkl47BF wrote:
>
> > but on another mailing list i used this same address
> >
> > i was banned
> >
> > the admin apologized and explained later my address looked suspicious
>
> Here they do not ban users based on e-mail domain alone.
>
> You have to do something worthy of the ban first :)
>
> Although you could've chosen more pronouceable alias. I mean, your
>
> current one looks like you've swapped your username and password. No
>
> offence meant, just in case.
>
> Reco

no offense taken
i use expect_mkpasswd to generate passwords
decades ago i got tired of trying to come up with user names
i just use expect_mkpasswd to make a short unique name
today everyone is trying to glean all of the personal info they can
i try not give out any more than is necessary

Re: mail service

[Reco]

Hi.

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 01:44:50PM +, fxkl47BF wrote:
> but on another mailing list i used this same address
> i was banned
> the admin apologized and explained later my address looked suspicious

Here they do not ban users based on e-mail domain alone.
You have to do something worthy of the ban first :)

Although you could've chosen more pronouceable alias. I mean, your
current one looks like you've swapped your username and password. No
offence meant, just in case.

Reco

Re: mail service

[fxkl47BF]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Sunday, October 10th, 2021 at 8:23 AM, Greg Wooledge  
wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 09:32:55AM +, fxkl47BF wrote:
>
> > in a different mailing list it was implied that if a person uses protonmail 
> > they must be up to no good
> >
> > i've used protonmail for about 6 months now and been satisfied
> >
> > what am i missing
>
> I suspect I know which mailing list you're talking about. If I'm right,
>
> the abuse to which you're referring is being caused by one person, who
>
> has switched email addresses and identities repeatedly over the course
>
> of a year. Their latest attempt at hiding their identity has been to use
>
> a series of different protonmail addresses.
>
> For those of us on the receiving end of that person's abuse, the fact that
>
> any message from a new person has protonmail in its message ID is just
>
> one indicator that the message may be from the abuser. We have to
>
> look at other things too, like the actual content of the message.
>
> As long as you're posting in good faith, nobody (as far as I know) is
>
> going to reject your messages only because of your email provider.

that is what a person would hope
but on another mailing list i used this same address
i was banned
the admin apologized and explained later my address looked suspicious

Re: mail service

[fxkl47BF]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Sunday, October 10th, 2021 at 8:16 AM, Roberto C. Sánchez 
 wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 01:09:03PM +, fxkl47BF wrote:
>
> > i understand and respect what you are saying
> >
> > i also reject it
> >
> > we have no way of knowing you are roberto
> >
> > following what you say it would make people feel warm and fuzzy if i called 
> > myself george washinton
> >
> > it's just judging a book by it's cover
> >
> > what kind of person does that
>
> Perception is reality.
>
> You are right that in general there does not exist a reliable means of
>
> verifying online identities. However, to appear in an online forum
>
> taking a form that appears substantially different from the bulkd of
>
> other participants in the forum will attract attention.
>
> To that end, depending on the threat model you are trying to address,
>
> appearing through a provider like protonmail has a different set of
>
> trade-offs from using a more well-known provider, not associated with
>
> total anonimity (like Gmail, Yahoo, etc.) and a pseudonym that more
>
> closely resembles a real name.
>
> If your goal is absolute and total anonimity while minimizing the
>
> likelihood that your true location/identity/etc. can be discovered, then
>
> protonmail is likely the way to go. However, that makes you "stick out"
>
> in a place like debian-user. If you wish to have a degree of anonimity
>
> while blending into the background, then a Gmail account using a
>
> pseudonym would probably attract far less notice.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Roberto
>
> -
>
> Roberto C. Sánchez

once again i totally agree and disagree
gmail, yahoo, gmx, etc. state that they scan mail going through their service
today personal information is gold
and for anonymity, the safest place to hide a tree is in a forest
years ago i saw a show where the character said

spies make the best neighbors
they keep their lawns cut and always take in the trash cans
they do everything the perfect average person should do

Re: mail service

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 09:32:55AM +, fxkl47BF wrote:
> 
> in a different mailing list it was implied that if a person uses protonmail 
> they must be up to no good
> i've used protonmail for about 6 months now and been satisfied
> what am i missing

I suspect I know which mailing list you're talking about.  If I'm right,
the abuse to which you're referring is being caused by one person, who
has switched email addresses and identities repeatedly over the course
of a year.  Their latest attempt at hiding their identity has been to use
a series of different protonmail addresses.

For those of us on the receiving end of that person's abuse, the fact that
any message from a new person has protonmail in its message ID is just
*one* indicator that the message may be from the abuser.  We have to
look at other things too, like the actual content of the message.

As long as you're posting in good faith, nobody (as far as I know) is
going to reject your messages *only* because of your email provider.

Re: mail service

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 01:09:03PM +, fxkl47BF wrote:
> 
> i understand and respect what you are saying
> i also reject it
> we have no way of knowing you are roberto
> following what you say it would make people feel warm and fuzzy if i called 
> myself george washinton
> it's just judging a book by it's cover
> what kind of person does that
> 
Perception is reality.

You are right that in general there does not exist a reliable means of
verifying online identities.  However, to appear in an online forum
taking a form that appears substantially different from the bulkd of
other participants in the forum will attract attention.

To that end, depending on the threat model you are trying to address,
appearing through a provider like protonmail has a different set of
trade-offs from using a more well-known provider, not associated with
total anonimity (like Gmail, Yahoo, etc.) and a pseudonym that more
closely resembles a real name.

If your goal is absolute and total anonimity while minimizing the
likelihood that your true location/identity/etc. can be discovered, then
protonmail is likely the way to go.  However, that makes you "stick out"
in a place like debian-user.  If you wish to have a degree of anonimity
while blending into the background, then a Gmail account using a
pseudonym would probably attract far less notice.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: mail service

[fxkl47BF]

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Sunday, October 10th, 2021 at 7:17 AM, Roberto C. Sánchez 
 wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 09:32:55AM +, fxkl47BF wrote:
>
> > in a different mailing list it was implied that if a person uses protonmail 
> > they must be up to no good
> >
> > i've used protonmail for about 6 months now and been satisfied
> >
> > what am i missing
>
> Services like protonmail have an important role in allowing
>
> communication from, to, and between persons who are under threat of
>
> persecution for some reason or another. E.g., political dissidents,
>
> whistleblowers, journalists, religious workers in certain countries,
>
> etc.
>
> In general, the circumstances which would require one to use a tool like
>
> protonmail are not commonly observed in connection with a list like
>
> debian-user. Since the history of the Internet is one of openness and
>
> collaboration (especially when it comes to newsgroups, from which lists
>
> like debian-user derive a heritage), to appear in a collaborative space
>
> without any way for the other participants to identify you is viewed
>
> with suspicion. Whether that is a fair or unfair bias is debatable.
>
> There is also ample evidence that very often, those who appear in
>
> technical fora under a cloak of anonimity do so for the purpose of
>
> disrupting, attacking, and so on, without risk to their real reputation.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Roberto
>
> 
>
> Roberto C. Sánchez

i understand and respect what you are saying
i also reject it
we have no way of knowing you are roberto
following what you say it would make people feel warm and fuzzy if i called 
myself george washinton
it's just judging a book by it's cover
what kind of person does that

Re: mail service

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 09:32:55AM +, fxkl47BF wrote:
> 
> in a different mailing list it was implied that if a person uses protonmail 
> they must be up to no good
> i've used protonmail for about 6 months now and been satisfied
> what am i missing
> 

Services like protonmail have an important role in allowing
communication from, to, and between persons who are under threat of
persecution for some reason or another.  E.g., political dissidents,
whistleblowers, journalists, religious workers in certain countries,
etc.

In general, the circumstances which would require one to use a tool like
protonmail are not commonly observed in connection with a list like
debian-user.  Since the history of the Internet is one of openness and
collaboration (especially when it comes to newsgroups, from which lists
like debian-user derive a heritage), to appear in a collaborative space
without any way for the other participants to identify you is viewed
with suspicion.  Whether that is a fair or unfair bias is debatable.

There is also ample evidence that very often, those who appear in
technical fora under a cloak of anonimity do so for the purpose of
disrupting, attacking, and so on, without risk to their real reputation.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: Mail Reader

[Francesco Florian]

On Fr, 09 Jul 2021, Teemu Likonen wrote:
> Excellent Emacs mail clients which I know: Notmuch Emacs and Gnus. Both
> can render HTML mail in text format using a variable width font.

Actually both can feed the html to a (customizable) renderer and display the 
result.

Best
-- 
Francesco Florian


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Re: Mail Reader

[John Hasler]

Andrei writes:
> Did you mean maildrop here?

I meant mailagent.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Mail Reader

[Teemu Likonen]

* 2021-07-09 10:09:38+0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> One thing I forgot to mention about (neo)mutt is the level of automation 
> that can be achieved in day-to-day tasks.

> Probably the only other clients that can match (and possibly surpass
> this) are those based on Emacs, though the learning curve might be
> steeper.

"Possibly surpass?" :-) An Emacs fan's boasting follows:

In Emacs we users can do everything that the original mail client
authors can do. We configure and program our mail clients in real time
in the very same language that the mail client was implemented (Emacs
Lisp). Usually Emacs package authors add a lot of easy customization
variables and hooks but everything is possible anyway.

Excellent Emacs mail clients which I know: Notmuch Emacs and Gnus. Both
can render HTML mail in text format using a variable width font. Gnus
can also read (Usenet) newsgroups.

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen - .-.. https://www.iki.fi/tlikonen/
// OpenPGP: 4E1055DC84E9DFF613D78557719D69D324539450


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Re: Mail Reader

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 08 iul 21, 19:38:36, Dan Ritter wrote:
> Andrei POPESCU wrote: 
> > 
> > I can only recommend things I have reasonably recent experience with.
> 
> Mutt's awesome. I use it many times a day.

[...]
 
> Only mutt can handle 500,000 pieces of mail in an archive in a
> way that is both performant and reasonable for something other
> than "search and destroy".

One thing I forgot to mention about (neo)mutt is the level of automation 
that can be achieved in day-to-day tasks.

Sure, advanced clients typically have some built-in pre-processing 
(sorting/filtering) or it can be plugged in before delivery (maildrop, 
imapfilter, etc.) and possibly have some support for custom macros.

However, with (neo)mutts patterns, hooks and macros it's possible to 
automate just about everything one does with mail *afterwards* (move to 
specific folder after reading, reply in particular way, etc.), 
everything based on specific folders and/or patterns.

Probably the only other clients that can match (and possibly surpass 
this) are those based on Emacs, though the learning curve might be 
steeper.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Mail Reader

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 08 iul 21, 18:14:22, John Hasler wrote:
> Gene writes:
> > As do those of us who use fetchmail to feed procmail, and procmail with 
> > some spamassassin for deaths and diversions to feed the TDE version of 
> > kmail-1.9, all totally background processes. So it is all automatic...
> 
> Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside writes:
> > This sound like the solution I want...  It can probably also be used
> > with mutt, I mean you can access your mail folder with both software
> > if they are in compatible format ?
> 
> It can be used with Mutt, Gnus, or any other MUA.

Though mbox format should be avoided.
 
> I suggest that you consider Mailman as an alternative to procmail.

Did you mean maildrop here?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Mail Reader

[Dan Ritter]

Andrei POPESCU wrote: 
> On Jo, 08 iul 21, 12:26:14, Curt wrote:
> > On 2021-07-08, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > I understand that the use of terminal software may be some advantage but
> > 
> > The use of terminal software can be fatal.
> > 
> > I use alpine myself, but the core members of the group---who sometimes
> > remind me of the dinosaurs in the back row of AA meetings (see *Infinite
> > Jest* if you're interested)---swear by Mutt (repeatedly swear by it
> > without noticeable fatigue, every time this self-same question is posed,
> > which is about once a week, but then I exaggerate, of course, for
> > effect). The thing is, though, 99% of the people asking this question
> > are looking for a GUI app, so the Mutt responses are nearly always *à
> > côté de la plaque*. This doesn't bother these recidivists, because they
> > don't really concern themselves with the question asked. All they
> > really care about is the answer given: *Their* answer. 
> 
> I can only recommend things I have reasonably recent experience with.

Mutt's awesome. I use it many times a day.

I also use a phone client -- K9-mail -- because it's better on
my phone's hardware than mutt (via ssh) is.

I also, less regularly, use rainloop, a web client.

All of them are swell.

Only mutt can handle 500,000 pieces of mail in an archive in a
way that is both performant and reasonable for something other
than "search and destroy".

-dsr-

Re: Mail Reader

[John Hasler]

Gene writes:
> As do those of us who use fetchmail to feed procmail, and procmail with 
> some spamassassin for deaths and diversions to feed the TDE version of 
> kmail-1.9, all totally background processes. So it is all automatic...

Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside writes:
> This sound like the solution I want...  It can probably also be used
> with mutt, I mean you can access your mail folder with both software
> if they are in compatible format ?

It can be used with Mutt, Gnus, or any other MUA.

I suggest that you consider Mailman as an alternative to procmail.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Mail Reader

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,


On 2021-07-08 9:53 a.m., Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 08 July 2021 08:34:26 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Jul 08, 2021 at 12:26:14PM -, Curt wrote:
>>> On 2021-07-08, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
>  wrote:
 I understand that the use of terminal software may be some
 advantage but
>>>
>>> The use of terminal software can be fatal.
>>
>> Definitely. It may get... addictive.
>>
>>> I use alpine myself [...]
>>> remind me of the dinosaurs in the back row of AA meetings (see
>>> *Infinite Jest* if you're interested)---swear by Mutt (repeatedly
>>> swear by it without noticeable fatigue, every time this self-same
>>> question is posed,
>>
>> They *just* might have a point, then ;-D
> 
> As do those of us who use fetchmail to feed procmail, and procmail with 
> some spamassassin for deaths and diversions to feed the TDE version of 
> kmail-1.9, all totally background processes. So it is all automatic with
This sound like the solution I want...
It can probably also be used with mutt, I mean you can access your mail
folder with both software if they are in compatible format ?

> my only interaction being a mouse click to goto the next unread msg, a 
> mouseclick to answer it if I can help, and a mouseclick or ctl+return to 
> send when I'm done typing. Of course fetchmail is built from the latest 
> tarball. kmail is a TDE R14 fork of kde at version 3.5 with hundreds of 
> bugs fixed. My kmail is in maildir format, and the corpus of email 
> totals around 12GB. And it all Just Works. And my mailbox at my ISP is
12GB is lot of mail when you talk about "normal" mail. It's not much if
you consider everything that goes on in the alt.binaries.xxx newsgroup
(to they still exists?) but that's another story ! And not my use case.

> left empty every 2 minutes since fetchmail, using imap protocol, can 
> delete fetched messages.  Whats not to like? But I've been 4 ISP's and 
I don't know what not to like.
So the solution is not one but at least 4...
And I'll give mutt a try because I love terminal software and probably
that I'll get more efficient as soon I get use to it.
It is also easier to login remotely if needed ;-)
> 20 years making it Just Work. ;-)
Too often people think they'll get good after 30 minutes of watching
some YouTube video, but that's far from true.
I've been working with computer, as what I'd call a power user for the
last 25 years and a bit more. I still have so much to learn.

One day a friend of mine called me over because he said "The power
outage and lightning strike broke my computer".
I came in, and it was simply the BIOS asking for the new date.
I typed in and it all work.
I told him that it was fixed.
It ended up in a huge arguments because he didn't believe I could repair
it so fast
It wasn't the lightning strike or power outage. It was a faulty BIOS
battery that made the real time clock go bad. This made the computer ask
for a date before continuing the boot process. Simple !
You know these when you have dealt with hundreds or thousand... Or you
simply had a computer that had a faulty BIOS battery or no battery for
RTC at all (Think it was my PC/XT)
>>> -:)
>>
>> <:*)
>>
>> Cheers
>>  - t
> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Mail Reader (updated)

[Francesco Florian]

On Do, 08 Jul 2021, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> and Offlineiap3 didn't work either.
Interesting, I didn't experience this, it seems that it is less stable than I 
thought.

> mbsync has worked reliably as an offlineimap replacement
> IMHO: DON'T USE OFFLINEIMAP[3] any more :)
I won't replace it until it breaks in my setup ;)
But thanks for the information, it may not be a good idea to suggest it to 
others, if mbsync is more reliable.

Best
-- 
Francesco Florian


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Re: Mail Reader

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 08 iul 21, 12:26:14, Curt wrote:
> On 2021-07-08, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  wrote:
> 
> > I understand that the use of terminal software may be some advantage but
> 
> The use of terminal software can be fatal.
> 
> I use alpine myself, but the core members of the group---who sometimes
> remind me of the dinosaurs in the back row of AA meetings (see *Infinite
> Jest* if you're interested)---swear by Mutt (repeatedly swear by it
> without noticeable fatigue, every time this self-same question is posed,
> which is about once a week, but then I exaggerate, of course, for
> effect). The thing is, though, 99% of the people asking this question
> are looking for a GUI app, so the Mutt responses are nearly always *à
> côté de la plaque*. This doesn't bother these recidivists, because they
> don't really concern themselves with the question asked. All they
> really care about is the answer given: *Their* answer. 

I can only recommend things I have reasonably recent experience with.

As far as I recall, when I used it Claws Mail was very good, but had 
poor support for Maildir (unmaintained plugin) and I really wanted to 
have my getmail -> maildrop -> MUA -> MTA -> smart host setup.

Once I got reasonably proficient with mutt (and vim) I just never felt 
the need to go back, even though my current setup (provider IMAP/SMTP 
server only, sorted with imapfilter) doesn't really require it anymore.

The daily horror of using Outlook at work probably doesn't help either.

And then there's the equivalent of https://xkcd.com/1782/


Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Mail Reader

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 08 July 2021 08:34:26 to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 08, 2021 at 12:26:14PM -, Curt wrote:
> > On 2021-07-08, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside 
 wrote:
> > > I understand that the use of terminal software may be some
> > > advantage but
> >
> > The use of terminal software can be fatal.
>
> Definitely. It may get... addictive.
>
> > I use alpine myself [...]
> > remind me of the dinosaurs in the back row of AA meetings (see
> > *Infinite Jest* if you're interested)---swear by Mutt (repeatedly
> > swear by it without noticeable fatigue, every time this self-same
> > question is posed,
>
> They *just* might have a point, then ;-D

As do those of us who use fetchmail to feed procmail, and procmail with 
some spamassassin for deaths and diversions to feed the TDE version of 
kmail-1.9, all totally background processes. So it is all automatic with 
my only interaction being a mouse click to goto the next unread msg, a 
mouseclick to answer it if I can help, and a mouseclick or ctl+return to 
send when I'm done typing. Of course fetchmail is built from the latest 
tarball. kmail is a TDE R14 fork of kde at version 3.5 with hundreds of 
bugs fixed. My kmail is in maildir format, and the corpus of email 
totals around 12GB. And it all Just Works. And my mailbox at my ISP is 
left empty every 2 minutes since fetchmail, using imap protocol, can 
delete fetched messages.  Whats not to like? But I've been 4 ISP's and 
20 years making it Just Work. ;-)
> > -:)
>
> <:*)
>
> Cheers
>  - t


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Mail Reader

[tomas]

On Thu, Jul 08, 2021 at 12:26:14PM -, Curt wrote:
> On 2021-07-08, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  wrote:
> 
> > I understand that the use of terminal software may be some advantage but
> 
> The use of terminal software can be fatal.

Definitely. It may get... addictive.

> I use alpine myself [...]
> remind me of the dinosaurs in the back row of AA meetings (see *Infinite
> Jest* if you're interested)---swear by Mutt (repeatedly swear by it
> without noticeable fatigue, every time this self-same question is posed,

They *just* might have a point, then ;-D

> -:)

<:*)

Cheers
 - t


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Re: Mail Reader (updated)

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Thu, Jul 08, 2021 at 11:24:35AM +0200, Francesco Florian wrote:
> Hi,
> I use a combination of three things; I don't think it's the setup you want, 
> but some of them can be replaced with others.
> 1. offlineimap to fetch the emails from the mail server and store them in 
> Maildir format. As the name suggests, the server only needs to support IMAP.
> It is available as offilneimap3 in the main debian testing repository, it 
> might also be in stable. It is also possible that stable has only offlineimap 
> (no '3'), written in python 2, I didn't check.

Your mileage may vary: on Bullseye here. Offlineimap was dependent on Python
2.x Offlineimap3 doesn't work for me and segfaults.

Notably, moving to Bullseye broke offlineimap horribly because no Python2
and Offlineiap3 didn't work either.

mbsync has worked reliably as an offlineimap replacement
IMHO: DON'T USE OFFLINEIMAP[3] any more :)

> 
> Best
> -- 
> Francesco Florian

All best, as ever,

Andy Cater

Re: Mail Reader

[Curt]

On 2021-07-08, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside  wrote:

> I understand that the use of terminal software may be some advantage but

The use of terminal software can be fatal.

I use alpine myself, but the core members of the group---who sometimes
remind me of the dinosaurs in the back row of AA meetings (see *Infinite
Jest* if you're interested)---swear by Mutt (repeatedly swear by it
without noticeable fatigue, every time this self-same question is posed,
which is about once a week, but then I exaggerate, of course, for
effect). The thing is, though, 99% of the people asking this question
are looking for a GUI app, so the Mutt responses are nearly always *à
côté de la plaque*. This doesn't bother these recidivists, because they
don't really concern themselves with the question asked. All they
really care about is the answer given: *Their* answer. 

So please, do yourself a favor, in the future, tailor your questions to
the answers, rather than expecting the reverse.

-:)

Re: Mail Reader (updated)

[Hans]

Am Donnerstag, 8. Juli 2021, 10:17:25 CEST schrieb Polyna-Maude Racicot-
Summerside:

Hi, 

maybe you might want to take a look at clawsmail. 

Personally I am very happy with kmail, but if you do not want to run plasma, 
then it might be the wrong choice. However, you can run kmail in LXDE, as LXDE 
also is based on qtlibs.

Personally I am using kmail at home and on the road, where I am using a slow 
EEEPC I am using LXDE as windowmanager and clawsmail as mailclient (very 
fast).

Hope this helps.

Best regards

Hans

> Hi,
> 
> On 2021-07-07 11:41 p.m., Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> > Hi guys (and possibly girls),
> > 
> > I am currently using Thunderbird as a mail reader.
> > It did a good job until now.
> > I am also using the PGP plugin.
> > 
> > But I am feeling the limits, it also gets somewhat pretty slow (even
> > with a powerful enough computer) if I need for example delete 100
> > messages on my mailing list inbox.
> > 
> > I was planning at first to create different folder and copy messages to
> > each of them, so I have a local archive of my conversation on the Debian
> > mailing list.
> > 
> > But I've changed my mind as Thunderbird is somewhat slow.
> > 
> > What would any of you suggest as a mail reading software ?
> > I could use claws-mail
> > I could use other mail client
> > I could also install a web based mail client on another server and
> > possibly create some local folders (don't know if this is possible).
> > I get my mail for a IMAP server and use SMTP for sending, so this is
> > pretty much a standard installation.
> 
> I'd like the following :
> 1. It can be TUI or GUI but if it's TUI then I'll need both.
> 2. It need to support PGP.
> 3. It would be nice to have some scripting possibility or exhaustive
> sorting.
> 4. Would be nice to have a good control over my SPAM rules, that I'd
> control it's interaction with SpamAssassin or the other tools available.
> 5. Would need to have it speedy.
> 6. Need to be possible to easily backup and restore my email without
> syncing with the server. That is, I could make a backup and restore with
> rsync or something similar.
> 7. If there's no calendar option (as a good software only does one
> thing) then I'd like some suggestion regarding what type of calendar
> software has a Google Calendar connector.
> 8. Could also be a solution that I build with Roundcubemail another
> server that I have free at home. I was thinking about the data center
> one but I step back because it will have some delay and won't be
> available offline.
> 9. Got mutt as suggestion, is this the most exhaustive (or configurable
> thru different outside tools and software) TUI based mail client ?
> 
> 10. My email account on my IMAP server are not related to the local user
> account on the computer I use in any way. So a software used for sending
> mail as "unix mail" is not the case. But maybe I could learn how to make
> such setup and this would be good learning !
> 
> Outside question...
> Is it possible to use a MTA on my computer that will follow the mail to
> my shared hosting IMAP server ? Probably ?
> 
> > As I have a unused server in a data center, I wouldn't mind to use it as
> > a remote mail client. But this is a 2nd choice, I would rather have a
> > local copy of my messages. This way I can easily do some search, even if
> > I'm having problem with Internet or copy it onto my laptop, having
> > access where I don't have access to 3G/4G internet.
> > 
> > Thanks for all the opinions you may give.
> 
> Thanks for all the nice user who help out.

Re: Mail Reader

[tomas]

On Thu, Jul 08, 2021 at 01:08:03PM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Jo, 08 iul 21, 10:53:09, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 08, 2021 at 11:39:42AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > > Any folder with more than a few hundred messages should probably be 
> > > converted to Maildir, unless it's used as an archive and rarely (if 
> > > ever) changed. (neo)mutt can deal with different formats per folder.
> > 
> > Not my experience. As I said, my main mail folder is roughly 38k
> > messages (corresponding to 1.1G) and mutt deals extremely well
> > with that [...]

> I'll defer to your experience. When I switched away from mbox it was 
> mainly to avoid problems due to different software accessing the storage 
> at the same time.

That'd be a strong reason, perhaps the only one pulling me off mbox.
>
> Searching is likely to be faster with mbox because it's only one file 
> per mailbox, but I doubt it's noticeable compared to Maildir and for 
> huge archives notmuch is probably a good idea anyway.

Mutt dealt so-far so well with my huge mboxes that I just was too
lazy to explore alternatives. Every couple of years I split off
the older part of my main mbox to an archive (high traffic mailing
lists get their own mboxes) and that's it.

From time to time "ideas" crop up about changing my setup, but up
to now, not one has come with enough impulse to surmount the
activation energy :)

Cheers
 - t


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Re: Mail Reader

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 08 iul 21, 10:53:09, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 08, 2021 at 11:39:42AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Any folder with more than a few hundred messages should probably be 
> > converted to Maildir, unless it's used as an archive and rarely (if 
> > ever) changed. (neo)mutt can deal with different formats per folder.
> 
> Not my experience. As I said, my main mail folder is roughly 38k
> messages (corresponding to 1.1G) and mutt deals extremely well
> with that. Moving/deleting messages (which I do regularly) rarely
> takes more than a couple of seconds, even searching through all
> the mail bodies for a regexp is reasonable (tens of secs). And
> this on a machine which ain't a beast: a virtual slice with 1G
> RAM reporting one (virtual) proc at 6385.49 bogomips.

I'll defer to your experience. When I switched away from mbox it was 
mainly to avoid problems due to different software accessing the storage 
at the same time.
 
Searching is likely to be faster with mbox because it's only one file 
per mailbox, but I doubt it's noticeable compared to Maildir and for 
huge archives notmuch is probably a good idea anyway.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Mail Reader (updated)

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 08 iul 21, 04:17:25, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 2021-07-07 11:41 p.m., Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> > Hi guys (and possibly girls),
> > 
> > I am currently using Thunderbird as a mail reader.
> > It did a good job until now.
> > I am also using the PGP plugin.
> > 
> > But I am feeling the limits, it also gets somewhat pretty slow (even
> > with a powerful enough computer) if I need for example delete 100
> > messages on my mailing list inbox.
> > 
> > I was planning at first to create different folder and copy messages to
> > each of them, so I have a local archive of my conversation on the Debian
> > mailing list.
> > 
> > But I've changed my mind as Thunderbird is somewhat slow.
> > 
> > What would any of you suggest as a mail reading software ?
> > I could use claws-mail
> > I could use other mail client
> > I could also install a web based mail client on another server and
> > possibly create some local folders (don't know if this is possible).
> > I get my mail for a IMAP server and use SMTP for sending, so this is
> > pretty much a standard installation.
> > 
> I'd like the following :
> 1. It can be TUI or GUI but if it's TUI then I'll need both.

As already stated, (neo)mutt is surprisingly flexible and I'm saying 
this as someone who's first contact with e-mail was through GUI clients. 

Unless you rely on some very specific GUI-only functionality (e.g. 
drag-and-drop attachments between applications or something like that) 
you might find out that (neo)mutt can fulfill most (if not all) of your 
needs.

> 2. It need to support PGP.
> 3. It would be nice to have some scripting possibility or exhaustive
> sorting.
> 4. Would be nice to have a good control over my SPAM rules, that I'd
> control it's interaction with SpamAssassin or the other tools available.
> 5. Would need to have it speedy.
> 6. Need to be possible to easily backup and restore my email without
> syncing with the server. That is, I could make a backup and restore with
> rsync or something similar.
> 7. If there's no calendar option (as a good software only does one
> thing) then I'd like some suggestion regarding what type of calendar
> software has a Google Calendar connector.
> 8. Could also be a solution that I build with Roundcubemail another
> server that I have free at home. I was thinking about the data center
> one but I step back because it will have some delay and won't be
> available offline.
> 9. Got mutt as suggestion, is this the most exhaustive (or configurable
> thru different outside tools and software) TUI based mail client ?
 
With appropriate configuration (neo)mutt can do all of the above mail 
handling and more (don't know about the calendar, though I wouldn't be 
surprised if it could somehow deal with that as well).

> 10. My email account on my IMAP server are not related to the local user
> account on the computer I use in any way. So a software used for sending
> mail as "unix mail" is not the case. But maybe I could learn how to make
> such setup and this would be good learning !

Mind the difference between SMTP and IMAP because you seem to conflate 
the two.

If sending mail is slow and/or unreliable (slow SMTP server, unreliable 
internet connection, etc.) it can be helpful to use a local MTA to 
forward messages to your provider's SMTP server.

There are lots of choices here, depending on your needs. If going this 
route I'd choose something that can also receive messages from cron, 
etc., so dma at a minimum (opensmtpd is my current preference, postfix 
and exim are overkill in most cases).
 
> Outside question...
> Is it possible to use a MTA on my computer that will follow the mail to
> my shared hosting IMAP server ? Probably ?

If I'm reading your question correctly you mean a local IMAP server that 
is synchronized to the one from your provider (two-way synchronization). 

This is a quite complex setup and I would recommend avoiding it unless 
you have a very specific need for a local IMAP server (if so please 
provide more details). A local IMAP server is not necessary if all you 
need is a local copy/archive/whatever of the mails on the provider's 
IMAP server.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Mail Reader (updated)

[Francesco Florian]

Hi,
I use a combination of three things; I don't think it's the setup you want, but 
some of them can be replaced with others.
1. offlineimap to fetch the emails from the mail server and store them in 
Maildir format. As the name suggests, the server only needs to support IMAP.
It is available as offilneimap3 in the main debian testing repository, it might 
also be in stable. It is also possible that stable has only offlineimap (no 
'3'), written in python 2, I didn't check.
2. mu, which provides mail indexing and searching. It's also available in the 
debian main repository as maildir-utils.
3. mu4e, which is an emacs package that provides the actual email client.

On Do, 08 Jul 2021, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> I'd like the following :
> 1. It can be TUI or GUI but if it's TUI then I'll need both.
The "feel" of mu4e is that of a TUI, but if using a GUI version of emacs (like 
emacs-gtk for debian) it is able to display images and html messages.

> 2. It need to support PGP.
I think that some configuration is needed in mu4e, but it is quite 
straightforward.

> 3. It would be nice to have some scripting possibility or exhaustive
> sorting.
For offlineimap, there is an ini-like configuration file, and some items can 
(but don't have to) be customized using external python code.
For mu4e, you have the full power of emacs lisp at your disposal, although that 
might be more complicated than you would like.

> 4. Would be nice to have a good control over my SPAM rules, that I'd
> control it's interaction with SpamAssassin or the other tools available.
I never tried, but it should be possible.

> 5. Would need to have it speedy.
About that, it's the best I found so far. The only inconvenient is that 
offlineimap is run by cron, so if a website says "copy the code you just 
received via email" at 11:00:01  you need to wait one minute or run it manually.

> 6. Need to be possible to easily backup and restore my email without
> syncing with the server. That is, I could make a backup and restore with
> rsync or something similar.
I'm not sure I understand that, but your emails will sit on your computer, so a 
full disk backup (or just copying the directory) should work.

> 7. If there's no calendar option (as a good software only does one
> thing) then I'd like some suggestion regarding what type of calendar
> software has a Google Calendar connector.
I know that emacs can do that, but it's fairly complicated and I gave up; but I 
actually didn't try it recently (that is, since I installed a free calendar app 
on my phone).

> 10. My email account on my IMAP server are not related to the local user
> account on the computer I use in any way. So a software used for sending
> mail as "unix mail" is not the case
mu4e should be able to directly send emails via SMTP through a remote 
mailserver.

About the dependencies:
- mu4e depends on mu plus some knowledge of emacs.
- mu only depends on a Maildir folder (so offlineimap can probably be 
substituted with dovecot or other similar utils);
it seems to also offer a gui (mug), which I never tried, so I don't know if it 
has some email client functionality.
It can probably be useful with other email clients (mutt is cited on the 
official page).
- offlineimap will only work if you can set it up as a cron job (there some 
daemon like functionality, but it seems to be the cause of most reported bugs, 
so I didn't activate it).
That said, it will copy your emails in a Maildir folder, and most email clients 
should understand it.

Best
-- 
Francesco Florian


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Re: Mail Reader

[mick crane]

On 2021-07-08 04:41, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:


What would any of you suggest as a mail reading software ?
I could use claws-mail
I could use other mail client
I could also install a web based mail client on another server and
possibly create some local folders (don't know if this is possible).
I get my mail for a IMAP server and use SMTP for sending, so this is
pretty much a standard installation.


I'm happy with local dovecot, dovecot-sieve, roundcube and getmail.
mick
--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: Mail Reader

[tomas]

On Thu, Jul 08, 2021 at 11:39:42AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

[...]

> Any folder with more than a few hundred messages should probably be 
> converted to Maildir, unless it's used as an archive and rarely (if 
> ever) changed. (neo)mutt can deal with different formats per folder.

Not my experience. As I said, my main mail folder is roughly 38k
messages (corresponding to 1.1G) and mutt deals extremely well
with that. Moving/deleting messages (which I do regularly) rarely
takes more than a couple of seconds, even searching through all
the mail bodies for a regexp is reasonable (tens of secs). And
this on a machine which ain't a beast: a virtual slice with 1G
RAM reporting one (virtual) proc at 6385.49 bogomips.

Not talking against maildir (I'd like to avoid /that/ flame war ;)
just saying that mutt copes excellently with big mboxes.

Cheers
 - t


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Re: Mail Reader

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 08 iul 21, 04:09:48, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> On Jo, 08 iul 21, 09:24:32, didier gaumet wrote:
> 
> > By default Thunderbird manages an mbox file for each folder you
> > creates, which contains all the messages of the folder. So potentially
> > these mbox files can be big and their processing can be slow. 
> > 
> > There are others forms of messages storage which create a file per
> > message: Maildir, MH, etc..
> > 
> Okay, but I have doubt about any type of benefits relating to having
> either more file or a different storage format.
> This won't help much when we talk about problem searching thru my mail
> and resources hungry (for Thunderbird) actions.

Except for the network interface the storage is the slowest component in 
a typical computer and the mbox format is notoriously difficult to 
change.

The "delete 100 messages on my mailing list inbox" you mentioned is 
barely noticeable with (neo)mutt using Maildir (probably with MH as 
well).

Even doing this over IMAP could be faster because the server does the 
actual work.

(in any case, enabling the header cache is a must)

If you care about a (big) local searchable archive you might want to 
look at neomutt and it's notmuch integration.

Any folder with more than a few hundred messages should probably be 
converted to Maildir, unless it's used as an archive and rarely (if 
ever) changed. (neo)mutt can deal with different formats per folder.

They do however require more configuration / customization out of the 
box. The (neo)muttrc manpage is very useful and there is plenty of other 
documentation on the web to get you started.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Mail Reader (updated)

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-07 11:41 p.m., Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Hi guys (and possibly girls),
> 
> I am currently using Thunderbird as a mail reader.
> It did a good job until now.
> I am also using the PGP plugin.
> 
> But I am feeling the limits, it also gets somewhat pretty slow (even
> with a powerful enough computer) if I need for example delete 100
> messages on my mailing list inbox.
> 
> I was planning at first to create different folder and copy messages to
> each of them, so I have a local archive of my conversation on the Debian
> mailing list.
> 
> But I've changed my mind as Thunderbird is somewhat slow.
> 
> What would any of you suggest as a mail reading software ?
> I could use claws-mail
> I could use other mail client
> I could also install a web based mail client on another server and
> possibly create some local folders (don't know if this is possible).
> I get my mail for a IMAP server and use SMTP for sending, so this is
> pretty much a standard installation.
> 
I'd like the following :
1. It can be TUI or GUI but if it's TUI then I'll need both.
2. It need to support PGP.
3. It would be nice to have some scripting possibility or exhaustive
sorting.
4. Would be nice to have a good control over my SPAM rules, that I'd
control it's interaction with SpamAssassin or the other tools available.
5. Would need to have it speedy.
6. Need to be possible to easily backup and restore my email without
syncing with the server. That is, I could make a backup and restore with
rsync or something similar.
7. If there's no calendar option (as a good software only does one
thing) then I'd like some suggestion regarding what type of calendar
software has a Google Calendar connector.
8. Could also be a solution that I build with Roundcubemail another
server that I have free at home. I was thinking about the data center
one but I step back because it will have some delay and won't be
available offline.
9. Got mutt as suggestion, is this the most exhaustive (or configurable
thru different outside tools and software) TUI based mail client ?

10. My email account on my IMAP server are not related to the local user
account on the computer I use in any way. So a software used for sending
mail as "unix mail" is not the case. But maybe I could learn how to make
such setup and this would be good learning !

Outside question...
Is it possible to use a MTA on my computer that will follow the mail to
my shared hosting IMAP server ? Probably ?

> As I have a unused server in a data center, I wouldn't mind to use it as
> a remote mail client. But this is a 2nd choice, I would rather have a
> local copy of my messages. This way I can easily do some search, even if
> I'm having problem with Internet or copy it onto my laptop, having
> access where I don't have access to 3G/4G internet.
> 
> Thanks for all the opinions you may give.
> 
> 

Thanks for all the nice user who help out.
-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Mail Reader

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,
> have created a pgp key with Thunderbird 78, you will need to export it
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/openpgp-thunderbird-howto-and-faq
Thanks but I don't create my keys in Thunderbird. I have some script
that reminds me when it's time to regenerate keys that have expired and
will ask me for a new password for the new ones.


> By default Thunderbird manages an mbox file for each folder you
> creates, which contains all the messages of the folder. So potentially
> these mbox files can be big and their processing can be slow. 
> 
> There are others forms of messages storage which create a file per
> message: Maildir, MH, etc..
> 
Okay, but I have doubt about any type of benefits relating to having
either more file or a different storage format.
This won't help much when we talk about problem searching thru my mail
and resources hungry (for Thunderbird) actions.

> Thunderbird can be set up to use a quasi-Maildir storage:
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Maildir
> it does not seem yet to be 100% production ready (but it this
> documentation really up-to-date?), but it might be of interest to you
> 
I'd rather use something that is old than doing some bug testing on
software that I depend on for work.
Sorry, if it ain't production ready and being used for some time, that's
a "no go".

I truly understand the need for people to use software for developers to
find bugs and bring them production ready. But I've chosen Linux really
early on so I didn't get bugs that Windows user would feel so often.

Some people have a huge pleasure of using latest feature available and
all the bells and whistles.

For myself, I prefer to have something older and stable.
This is also why I prefer Debian over all the other distribution.
Yes sometime it takes time for software to be updated but there's so
many test done and enforcement of conflict resolution, compatibility on
platform and everything else that it makes the best distribution for me.

> Another solution would be to switch to an email client that does not
> store your emails in mbox format:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_email_clients#Database,_folders_and_customization
> 
Again, this doesn't help me much.
What would it bring me "not to use the mbox format" ?
> In Debian there are GUI MUAs that store emails in MH format (Claws,
> Sylpheed), Evolution by default stores in Maildir format and I think
> KMail can be set up to use Maildir also.
Yes, this is exactly what I said in my original message. That I was
looking for one of the mail reader like Claws and other. But still, this
is the list but I don't know more which one is mature and has PGP
options, mail sorting...
I'll add some specification to my original message.
> 
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Mail Reader

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-07-08 2:40 a.m., john doe wrote:
> On 7/8/2021 5:41 AM, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>> Hi guys (and possibly girls),
>>
>> I am currently using Thunderbird as a mail reader.
>> It did a good job until now.
>> I am also using the PGP plugin.
>>
>> But I am feeling the limits, it also gets somewhat pretty slow (even
>> with a powerful enough computer) if I need for example delete 100
>> messages on my mailing list inbox.
>>
>> I was planning at first to create different folder and copy messages to
>> each of them, so I have a local archive of my conversation on the Debian
>> mailing list.
>>
>> But I've changed my mind as Thunderbird is somewhat slow.
>>
>> What would any of you suggest as a mail reading software ?
>> I could use claws-mail
>> I could use other mail client
>> I could also install a web based mail client on another server and
>> possibly create some local folders (don't know if this is possible).
>> I get my mail for a IMAP server and use SMTP for sending, so this is
>> pretty much a standard installation.
>>
>> As I have a unused server in a data center, I wouldn't mind to use it as
>> a remote mail client. But this is a 2nd choice, I would rather have a
>> local copy of my messages. This way I can easily do some search, even if
>> I'm having problem with Internet or copy it onto my laptop, having
>> access where I don't have access to 3G/4G internet.
>>
>> Thanks for all the opinions you may give.
> 
> LMH/Mutt might fit the bill if you are willing to use the terminal.
> 
I understand that the use of terminal software may be some advantage but
I doubt it would increase my productivity. I'd need one mail reader for
the mailing list and another one for my other job related activity.
Not so easy looking at pictures over a terminal window !
And as a photograph and equipment buyer/seller/repair, I often send
pictures to my customer and coworker. So it's not as easy when using the
terminal.
Would have been easier if I didn't get use to graphic environment mail
software in the mid 2000s.

But I keep in mind, maybe the best solution is not one but two software...
> -- 
> John Doe
> 

-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



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Re: Mail Reader

[tomas]

On Wed, Jul 07, 2021 at 11:41:25PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Hi guys (and possibly girls),
> 
> I am currently using Thunderbird as a mail reader.
> It did a good job until now.
> I am also using the PGP plugin.
> 
> But I am feeling the limits, it also gets somewhat pretty slow (even
> with a powerful enough computer) if I need for example delete 100
> messages on my mailing list inbox.

If speed's your limit and if you don't mind terminal (curses), I can vouch
for mutt (as john doe). In my case: 38k mails in one mailbox and I don't
hesitate to search through the mail *bodies* if necessary -- it works
reasonably fast. Bulk marking and copying to other "folders" etc is speedy.

There are some variations (Debian has a neomutt one) with some more eye
candy.

Cheers
 - t


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Re: Mail Reader

[didier gaumet]

Le mercredi 07 juillet 2021 à 23:41 -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-
Summerside a écrit :
> Hi guys (and possibly girls),
> 
> I am currently using Thunderbird as a mail reader.
> It did a good job until now.
> I am also using the PGP plugin.


Hello,


Enigmail, the Thunderbird PGP plugin, is deprecated. So what you are
using is the new PGP stuff integrated in Thunderbird. Why do I mention
it? Because the plugin used the standard gnupg directories, the new
integrated stuff does not and if you migrate to a new email client and
have created a pgp key with Thunderbird 78, you will need to export it
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/openpgp-thunderbird-howto-and-faq

> But I am feeling the limits, it also gets somewhat pretty slow (even
> with a powerful enough computer) if I need for example delete 100
> messages on my mailing list inbox.
[...]
>  What would any of you suggest as a mail reading software ?
> I could use claws-mail
> I could use other mail client
[...]

By default Thunderbird manages an mbox file for each folder you
creates, which contains all the messages of the folder. So potentially
these mbox files can be big and their processing can be slow. 

There are others forms of messages storage which create a file per
message: Maildir, MH, etc..

Thunderbird can be set up to use a quasi-Maildir storage:
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Thunderbird/Maildir
it does not seem yet to be 100% production ready (but it this
documentation really up-to-date?), but it might be of interest to you

Another solution would be to switch to an email client that does not
store your emails in mbox format:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_email_clients#Database,_folders_and_customization

In Debian there are GUI MUAs that store emails in MH format (Claws,
Sylpheed), Evolution by default stores in Maildir format and I think
KMail can be set up to use Maildir also.

Re: Mail Reader

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Jul 07, 2021 at 11:41:25PM -0400, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Hi guys (and possibly girls),
> 
> I am currently using Thunderbird as a mail reader.
> It did a good job until now.
> I am also using the PGP plugin.
> 
> But I am feeling the limits, it also gets somewhat pretty slow (even
> with a powerful enough computer) if I need for example delete 100
> messages on my mailing list inbox.
> 
> I was planning at first to create different folder and copy messages to
> each of them, so I have a local archive of my conversation on the Debian
> mailing list.
> 
> But I've changed my mind as Thunderbird is somewhat slow.
> 
> What would any of you suggest as a mail reading software ?
> I could use claws-mail
> I could use other mail client
> I could also install a web based mail client on another server and
> possibly create some local folders (don't know if this is possible).
> I get my mail for a IMAP server and use SMTP for sending, so this is
> pretty much a standard installation.
> 
> As I have a unused server in a data center, I wouldn't mind to use it as
> a remote mail client. But this is a 2nd choice, I would rather have a
> local copy of my messages. This way I can easily do some search, even if
> I'm having problem with Internet or copy it onto my laptop, having
> access where I don't have access to 3G/4G internet.
> 
> Thanks for all the opinions you may give.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
> -Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development
> 

Mutt is incredibly versatile and is a really good reader for non-HTML email.

mbsync seems to work for me (after some tweaking) to pull down mail quickly
and accurately to the local machine.

I did cheat in that I have someone else who has a working email server and
Debian colleagues who were willing to share some setup.

As ever - it depends on whether the feature set is right for _you_ :)

All the best,

Andy Cater

Re: Mail Reader

[john doe]

On 7/8/2021 5:41 AM, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:

Hi guys (and possibly girls),

I am currently using Thunderbird as a mail reader.
It did a good job until now.
I am also using the PGP plugin.

But I am feeling the limits, it also gets somewhat pretty slow (even
with a powerful enough computer) if I need for example delete 100
messages on my mailing list inbox.

I was planning at first to create different folder and copy messages to
each of them, so I have a local archive of my conversation on the Debian
mailing list.

But I've changed my mind as Thunderbird is somewhat slow.

What would any of you suggest as a mail reading software ?
I could use claws-mail
I could use other mail client
I could also install a web based mail client on another server and
possibly create some local folders (don't know if this is possible).
I get my mail for a IMAP server and use SMTP for sending, so this is
pretty much a standard installation.

As I have a unused server in a data center, I wouldn't mind to use it as
a remote mail client. But this is a 2nd choice, I would rather have a
local copy of my messages. This way I can easily do some search, even if
I'm having problem with Internet or copy it onto my laptop, having
access where I don't have access to 3G/4G internet.

Thanks for all the opinions you may give.


LMH/Mutt might fit the bill if you are willing to use the terminal.

--
John Doe

Re: Mail transfer agent (debian-user-digest Digest V2020 #932)

[Brian]

On Wed 30 Sep 2020 at 23:26:20 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> On Sat 26 Sep 2020 at 10:50:11 (+0300), Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > > 
> > > It ought to—I have no idea whether mutt can even use it, though
> > > I suppose it's possible—but AIUI the file belongs to exim4-config.
> > > It "needs" a dot to prevent your being nagged about its lack, and
> > > having an @ in it could screw up any use exim makes of it.
> > > (I use it to set exim's HELO.) So I thought it best to mention it.
> > 
> > As far as I recall[1] /etc/mailname is Debian specific[2], to be used by 
> > all softwares (typically MTAs and some MUAs like mutt) that need a 
> > domain part to construct a full e-mail address, when one isn't provided.
> > 
> > [1] too lazy to check where it's documented, quite likely in Debian Policy
> > [2] as in Debian specific patches to support it
> 
> Your ¹ is correct. Specifically, from
> 
> file:///usr/share/doc/debian-policy/policy.html/ch-customized-programs.html#mail-transport-delivery-and-user-agents
> 
> If your package needs to know what hostname to use on (for
> example) outgoing news and mail messages which are generated
> locally, you should use the file /etc/mailname. It will contain
> the portion after the username and @ (at) sign for email addresses
> of users on the machine (followed by a newline).
> 
> Such a package should check for the existence of this file when it
> is being configured. If it exists, it should be used without
> comment, although an MTA’s configuration script may wish to prompt
> the user even if it finds that this file exists. If the file does
> not exist, the package should prompt the user for the value
> (preferably using debconf) and store it in /etc/mailname as well
> as using it in the package’s configuration. The prompt should make
> it clear that the name will not just be used by that package. For
> example, in this situation the inn package could say something
> like:
> 
>   Please enter the "mail name" of your system. This is the
>   hostname portion of the address to be shown on outgoing news and
>   mail messages. The default is syshostname, your system's host name.
> 
>   Mail name ["syshostname"]:
> 
> where syshostname is the output of hostname --fqdn.

exim4 says:

  The 'mail name' is the domain name used to 'qualify' mail addresses
  without a domain name.

Sending to brian or cc'ing or bcc'ing brian would go to br...@axis.corp.
I interpret the above to apply to email addresses *only*. EHLO (HELO)
would not be involved.

> So on this system, its value is axis.corp, which you can see in the
> header of this email. It certainly shouldn't be an email address,
> containing a local part and @.

Correct. Users do do that; most of the time it hasn't any consequence
because they do not send to or cc brian. The complete address is used.
> 
> I wasn't aware that there is a (somewhat old) wiki page which is
> supposed to list all the MTAs (which I understand as including
> programs which submit mail using SMTP) and how they interpret
> /etc/mailname. For some reason, mutt is treated under the heading
> for exim4. Half a dozen headings have no information listed, and
> I don't know whether there are packages/programs missing altogether.

I've always been aware of that page. The exim4 documentation is more
useful, however.

> There are at least three or four important fields that involve various
> interpretations of "from-ness": EHLO, envelope (MAIL_FROM), From:
> and Sender:. (That's ignoring Resent* and so on.) How these relate
> to each other is not straightforward, particularly for home users'
> machines, and their values can be an important factor in whether
> their emails make it into the Internet and on to their destination.
> What works for one person may not for another. (That's also
> ignoring intranet emails.)

exim4 gets the EHLO from /etc/hosts, not /etc/mailname.

-- 
Brian. 

Re: Mail transfer agent (debian-user-digest Digest V2020 #932)

[David Wright]

On Sat 26 Sep 2020 at 10:50:11 (+0300), Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > 
> > It ought to—I have no idea whether mutt can even use it, though
> > I suppose it's possible—but AIUI the file belongs to exim4-config.
> > It "needs" a dot to prevent your being nagged about its lack, and
> > having an @ in it could screw up any use exim makes of it.
> > (I use it to set exim's HELO.) So I thought it best to mention it.
> 
> As far as I recall[1] /etc/mailname is Debian specific[2], to be used by 
> all softwares (typically MTAs and some MUAs like mutt) that need a 
> domain part to construct a full e-mail address, when one isn't provided.
> 
> [1] too lazy to check where it's documented, quite likely in Debian Policy
> [2] as in Debian specific patches to support it

Your ¹ is correct. Specifically, from

file:///usr/share/doc/debian-policy/policy.html/ch-customized-programs.html#mail-transport-delivery-and-user-agents

If your package needs to know what hostname to use on (for
example) outgoing news and mail messages which are generated
locally, you should use the file /etc/mailname. It will contain
the portion after the username and @ (at) sign for email addresses
of users on the machine (followed by a newline).

Such a package should check for the existence of this file when it
is being configured. If it exists, it should be used without
comment, although an MTA’s configuration script may wish to prompt
the user even if it finds that this file exists. If the file does
not exist, the package should prompt the user for the value
(preferably using debconf) and store it in /etc/mailname as well
as using it in the package’s configuration. The prompt should make
it clear that the name will not just be used by that package. For
example, in this situation the inn package could say something
like:

  Please enter the "mail name" of your system. This is the
  hostname portion of the address to be shown on outgoing news and
  mail messages. The default is syshostname, your system's host name.

  Mail name ["syshostname"]:

where syshostname is the output of hostname --fqdn.

So on this system, its value is axis.corp, which you can see in the
header of this email. It certainly shouldn't be an email address,
containing a local part and @.

I wasn't aware that there is a (somewhat old) wiki page which is
supposed to list all the MTAs (which I understand as including
programs which submit mail using SMTP) and how they interpret
/etc/mailname. For some reason, mutt is treated under the heading
for exim4. Half a dozen headings have no information listed, and
I don't know whether there are packages/programs missing altogether.

There are at least three or four important fields that involve various
interpretations of "from-ness": EHLO, envelope (MAIL_FROM), From:
and Sender:. (That's ignoring Resent* and so on.) How these relate
to each other is not straightforward, particularly for home users'
machines, and their values can be an important factor in whether
their emails make it into the Internet and on to their destination.
What works for one person may not for another. (That's also
ignoring intranet emails.)

Having decided on their values, it's also non-trivial to work out
how to set each one: the documentation is widely scattered and
sometimes missing. It would be a help to have a wiki page that
consolidated that information.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Mail transfer agent (debian-user-digest Digest V2020 #932)

[Andrei POPESCU]

> 
> It ought to—I have no idea whether mutt can even use it, though
> I suppose it's possible—but AIUI the file belongs to exim4-config.
> It "needs" a dot to prevent your being nagged about its lack, and
> having an @ in it could screw up any use exim makes of it.
> (I use it to set exim's HELO.) So I thought it best to mention it.

As far as I recall[1] /etc/mailname is Debian specific[2], to be used by 
all softwares (typically MTAs and some MUAs like mutt) that need a 
domain part to construct a full e-mail address, when one isn't provided.

[1] too lazy to check where it's documented, quite likely in Debian 
Policy
[2] as in Debian specific patches to support it

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Mail transfer agent (debian-user-digest Digest V2020 #932)

[David Wright]

On Fri 25 Sep 2020 at 13:26:54 (+0300), Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Vi, 25 sep 20, 00:38:25, David Wright wrote:
> > On Fri 25 Sep 2020 at 03:40:16 (+), mike.junk...@att.net wrote:
> > 
> > > Trying to get mutt to send mail I've got this in .muttrc:
> > > 
> > > set smtp_pass="myPasswd"
> > > # set smtp_url="smtp[s]://[user[:pass]@]host[:port]"
> > > # set smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclain46:mypas...@suddenlink.net:587"
> > > set smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclain46:mypas...@suddenlink.net:587/"
> > 
> > I don't know the effect of specifying your password in both places.
> > (I believe the idea behind smtp_pass is so that it can be placed in
> > a separate, protected file.)
> > 
> > I would expect the loginname (user above) to include a domain,
> > ie it's usually an email address. (Mine always have been.)
> 
> Not necessarily, just very common. However, suddenlink seems to require 
> the full e-mail address as well.
> 
> https://help.suddenlink.com/knowledge/microsoft-outlook-set-your-suddenlink-email

AIUI there are many services that might be using, say, foobar.net
for home users and foobar.com for businesses, with the possibility
of identical local parts in each domain, all submitting through the
one host.

> > I don't think suddenlink.net accepts mail; smtp.suddenlink.net does.
> > 
> > I omit the port number 587 as it's the default.
> 
> Can't find any mention of this in neomuttrc(5), care to provide a 
> source?

Memory fart: as Reco points out, that's not so, and in fact my
original reply included the 587, because I copied/pasted/edited¹
my own ordinary parameters. In this later thread, by chance, I used
my extraordinary ISP parameters² where I hadn't included the port.

I followed the link above, and they recommend 465, which I think uses
implicit TLS encryption. They obviously support TLS on 587 (and who
knows about 25), but I would recommend that the OP includes the setting

set  ssl_force_tls

in their muttrc so that they can't send any unencrypted emails by accident.

> > So I would have either:
> > 
> > set smtp_pass="myPasswd"
> > set smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclai...@suddenlink.net@smtp.suddenlink.net/"

and adding :465

> > or:
> > 
> > set 
> > smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclai...@suddenlink.net:mypas...@smtp.suddenlink.net/"

ditto.

> The trailing '/' is not needed ;)

Maybe—I tend to just follow the documentation, and the mutt examples
include it, so in it goes.

> > > # set smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclain46:mypas...@suddenlink.net:465/"
> > > # set smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclain46:mypas...@suddenlink.net:465"
> > > #smtp.suddenlink.net::587
> > > #smtp_url="smtp://loginn...@smtp.server.net:587/"
> > > set smtp_authenticators="plain"
> 
> The default behaviour when not setting $smtp_authenticators at all works 
> just fine to me with Gmail and GMX.

Sure. Ironically, suddenlink.net ask you to specify plain if requested.
For convenience, I keep a ready-encoded copy in /etc/exim4/passwd.client
as a comment after the actual password line.

> > > /etc/mailname says this:
> > > mikemcclain...@suddenlink.net
> > 
> > /etc/mailname should only contain a domainname, not an address.
> > Mine has just axis.corp in it, as I send mail from this machine.
> 
> As far as I can tell mutt's SMTP support should work just fine without 
> setting any domain in /etc/mailname as it's used only for setting the 
> domain on local email and Message-Id headers.

It ought to—I have no idea whether mutt can even use it, though
I suppose it's possible—but AIUI the file belongs to exim4-config.
It "needs" a dot to prevent your being nagged about its lack, and
having an @ in it could screw up any use exim makes of it.
(I use it to set exim's HELO.) So I thought it best to mention it.

¹ Apologies for the extraneous dots and dollars when I pasted
  from a ?lisp emacs buffer.

² Currently I can't post here through my regular smarthost, so
  I submit posts directly from mutt through my ISP's own one.
  They demand both authentication and authorisation, so I set
  it all up by hand-typing the commands for a one line test email.

  When I copied the parameters from the test into my muttrc,
  I forgot the port because it only appears in the connection
  command, not the conversation. When I checked muttrc today,
  I realised I've been submitting through port 25, a port that
  they'd blocked for years. Perhaps there were technical reasons
  why they didn't use it for both ordinary smtp connections
  and email submission in the past.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Mail transfer agent (debian-user-digest Digest V2020 #932)

[Reco]

Hi.

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020 at 01:26:54PM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> Not necessarily, just very common. However, suddenlink seems to require 
> the full e-mail address as well.
> 
> https://help.suddenlink.com/knowledge/microsoft-outlook-set-your-suddenlink-email
>  
> > I don't think suddenlink.net accepts mail; smtp.suddenlink.net does.
> > 
> > I omit the port number 587 as it's the default.
> 
> Can't find any mention of this in neomuttrc(5), care to provide a 
> source?

There won't be any, because in both mutt and neomutt tcp:25 is the
default for smtp.
Specifically, smtp_fill_account() at smtp.c shows this:

  if (!account->port)
  {
if (account->flags & MUTT_ACCT_SSL)
  account->port = SMTPS_PORT;
else
{
  static unsigned short SmtpPort = 0;
  if (!SmtpPort)
  {
struct servent *service = getservbyname("smtp", "tcp");
if (service)
  SmtpPort = ntohs(service->s_port);
else
  SmtpPort = SMTP_PORT;
mutt_debug(3, "Using default SMTP port %d\n", SmtpPort);
  }
  account->port = SmtpPort;
}
  }

And getservbyname(3) will return port 25 for smtp, because it's the port
designated for smtp in /etc/services.
Of course, they *could* use "submission" (which is tcp:587) at that code
instead of "smtp", but they did not.

Reco

Re: Mail transfer agent (debian-user-digest Digest V2020 #932)

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Vi, 25 sep 20, 00:38:25, David Wright wrote:
> On Fri 25 Sep 2020 at 03:40:16 (+), mike.junk...@att.net wrote:
> 
> > Trying to get mutt to send mail I've got this in .muttrc:
> > 
> > set smtp_pass="myPasswd"
> > # set smtp_url="smtp[s]://[user[:pass]@]host[:port]"
> > # set smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclain46:mypas...@suddenlink.net:587"
> > set smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclain46:mypas...@suddenlink.net:587/"
> 
> I don't know the effect of specifying your password in both places.
> (I believe the idea behind smtp_pass is so that it can be placed in
> a separate, protected file.)
> 
> I would expect the loginname (user above) to include a domain,
> ie it's usually an email address. (Mine always have been.)

Not necessarily, just very common. However, suddenlink seems to require 
the full e-mail address as well.

https://help.suddenlink.com/knowledge/microsoft-outlook-set-your-suddenlink-email
 
> I don't think suddenlink.net accepts mail; smtp.suddenlink.net does.
> 
> I omit the port number 587 as it's the default.

Can't find any mention of this in neomuttrc(5), care to provide a 
source?

> So I would have either:
> 
> set smtp_pass="myPasswd"
> set smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclai...@suddenlink.net@smtp.suddenlink.net/"
> 
> or:
> 
> set 
> smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclai...@suddenlink.net:mypas...@smtp.suddenlink.net/"

The trailing '/' is not needed ;)

> > # set smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclain46:mypas...@suddenlink.net:465/"
> > # set smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclain46:mypas...@suddenlink.net:465"
> > #smtp.suddenlink.net::587
> > #smtp_url="smtp://loginn...@smtp.server.net:587/"
> > set smtp_authenticators="plain"

The default behaviour when not setting $smtp_authenticators at all works 
just fine to me with Gmail and GMX.

> > /etc/mailname says this:
> > mikemcclain...@suddenlink.net
> 
> /etc/mailname should only contain a domainname, not an address.
> Mine has just axis.corp in it, as I send mail from this machine.

As far as I can tell mutt's SMTP support should work just fine without 
setting any domain in /etc/mailname as it's used only for setting the 
domain on local email and Message-Id headers.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Mail transfer agent

[mick crane]

On 2020-09-25 08:56, Joe wrote:


If you haven't done anything yourself, it will be exim4-light.


thanks

--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: Mail transfer agent

[Joe]

On Thu, 24 Sep 2020 22:29:32 +0100
mick crane  wrote:

> On 2020-09-24 18:19, Brian wrote:
> > On Thu 24 Sep 2020 at 13:35:17 +, mike.junk...@att.net wrote:
> >   
> >> 
> >> On Wednesday, September 23, 2020, 09:14:42 PM CDT, Dan Ritter 
> >>  wrote:
> >>  mutt is an MUA, not an MTA. 
> >> 
> >> What tasks do you want your mail server to perform? Please be
> >> specific. We will have better advice for you once we know
> >> exactly what you want to have happen.
> >> -dsr-
> >> Thanks, Dan,All I need from an MTA is:1) take mail from fetchmail
> >> and put it in a mailbox for mutt to display,2) take mail from mutt
> >> and send it to my ISP via smtp3) take messages from the system,
> >> eg: cron and deliver them to that same mailbox4) take a simple
> >> message on the CL such as:    echo 'blah' | mail -s 'oops'
> >> no...@example.com
> >> 
> >> I've been using exim for years and it works well but is overkill
> >> for my needs.  
> > 
> > I too have been using exim for years in a similar way to the way you
> > describe. It does the job very well and I just let it get on with
> > it. I don't really understand what you mean by "overkill" and think
> > you are fussing over nothing.  
> 
> I know how I get mail.
> I've been using roundcube for a few years. I know I put in the SMTP 
> server, account and password for being allowed in the configuration
> but I actually have no idea what is used for the sending. I probably
> should.
> 

If you haven't done anything yourself, it will be exim4-light. If it's
not taking raw mail straight from the Net, it doesn't need much in the
way of care and feeding. 

Mine is quite aggressively anti-spam, and it only gets a few minor
tweaks a year. I can't remember when I last modified its main
configuration file.

-- 
Joe

Re: Mail transfer agent (debian-user-digest Digest V2020 #932)

[David Wright]

On Fri 25 Sep 2020 at 03:40:16 (+), mike.junk...@att.net wrote:

> Trying to get mutt to send mail I've got this in .muttrc:
> 
> set smtp_pass="myPasswd"
> # set smtp_url="smtp[s]://[user[:pass]@]host[:port]"
> # set smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclain46:mypas...@suddenlink.net:587"
> set smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclain46:mypas...@suddenlink.net:587/"

I don't know the effect of specifying your password in both places.
(I believe the idea behind smtp_pass is so that it can be placed in
a separate, protected file.)

I would expect the loginname (user above) to include a domain,
ie it's usually an email address. (Mine always have been.)

I don't think suddenlink.net accepts mail; smtp.suddenlink.net does.

I omit the port number 587 as it's the default.

So I would have either:

set smtp_pass="myPasswd"
set smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclai...@suddenlink.net@smtp.suddenlink.net/"

or:

set smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclai...@suddenlink.net:mypas...@smtp.suddenlink.net/"

> # set smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclain46:mypas...@suddenlink.net:465/"
> # set smtp_url="smtp://mikemcclain46:mypas...@suddenlink.net:465"
> #smtp.suddenlink.net::587
> #smtp_url="smtp://loginn...@smtp.server.net:587/"
> set smtp_authenticators="plain"

Seems ok from 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN below.

> # set smtp_authenticators=
> set envelope_from_address="mikemcclai...@suddenlink.net"
> set use_envelope_from
> 
> The commented lines above are things I tried that didn't work.
> 
> This is a line from /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf that worked when I had 
> exim4 installed:
> dc_smarthost='smtp.suddenlink.net::587'

That looks ok. I get the response (using port 587):

250 STARTTLS
ehlo axis.corp
250-omta04.suddenlink.net
250-HELP
250-XREMOTEQUEUE
250-ETRN
250-AUTH=LOGIN PLAIN
250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
250-PIPELINING
250-DSN
250-8BITMIME
250 SIZE 52428800

> /etc/mailname says this:
> mikemcclain...@suddenlink.net

/etc/mailname should only contain a domainname, not an address.
Mine has just axis.corp in it, as I send mail from this machine.

> trying to send mail via mutt:
>     Could not connect to suddenlink.net (Interrupted system call).
> 
> Thinking postfix might be messing things up I deleted it.
> That made no difference so I installed dma, still no outgoing mail, deleted.
> 
> What am I missing?

Cheers,
David.

Re: Mail transfer agent

[mick crane]

On 2020-09-24 18:19, Brian wrote:

On Thu 24 Sep 2020 at 13:35:17 +, mike.junk...@att.net wrote:



On Wednesday, September 23, 2020, 09:14:42 PM CDT, Dan Ritter 
 wrote:

 mutt is an MUA, not an MTA. 

What tasks do you want your mail server to perform? Please be
specific. We will have better advice for you once we know
exactly what you want to have happen.
-dsr-
Thanks, Dan,All I need from an MTA is:1) take mail from fetchmail and
put it in a mailbox for mutt to display,2) take mail from mutt and
send it to my ISP via smtp3) take messages from the system, eg: cron
and deliver them to that same mailbox4) take a simple message on the
CL such as:    echo 'blah' | mail -s 'oops' no...@example.com

I've been using exim for years and it works well but is overkill for
my needs.


I too have been using exim for years in a similar way to the way you
describe. It does the job very well and I just let it get on with it.
I don't really understand what you mean by "overkill" and think you are
fussing over nothing.


I know how I get mail.
I've been using roundcube for a few years. I know I put in the SMTP 
server, account and password for being allowed in the configuration but 
I actually have no idea what is used for the sending. I probably should.


mick



--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: Mail transfer agent

[Brian]

On Thu 24 Sep 2020 at 13:35:17 +, mike.junk...@att.net wrote:

>  
> On Wednesday, September 23, 2020, 09:14:42 PM CDT, Dan Ritter 
>  wrote:  
>  mutt is an MUA, not an MTA. 
> 
> What tasks do you want your mail server to perform? Please be
> specific. We will have better advice for you once we know
> exactly what you want to have happen.
> -dsr-
> Thanks, Dan,All I need from an MTA is:1) take mail from fetchmail and
> put it in a mailbox for mutt to display,2) take mail from mutt and
> send it to my ISP via smtp3) take messages from the system, eg: cron
> and deliver them to that same mailbox4) take a simple message on the
> CL such as:    echo 'blah' | mail -s 'oops' no...@example.com
> 
> I've been using exim for years and it works well but is overkill for
> my needs.

I too have been using exim for years in a similar way to the way you
describe. It does the job very well and I just let it get on with it.
I don't really understand what you mean by "overkill" and think you are
fussing over nothing.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Mail transfer agent

[David Wright]

On Thu 24 Sep 2020 at 13:35:17 (+), mike.junk...@att.net wrote:
> On Wednesday, September 23, 2020, 09:14:42 PM CDT, Dan Ritter 
>  wrote:  
>  mutt is an MUA, not an MTA. 
> 
> What tasks do you want your mail server to perform? Please be
> specific. We will have better advice for you once we know
> exactly what you want to have happen.
> -dsr-
> Thanks, Dan,All I need from an MTA is:
> 1) take mail from fetchmail and put it in a mailbox for mutt to display,

I thought that's what fetchmail did, and what mutt can do,
the difference being that fetchmail would put them onto your
system while you slept, whereas mutt would fetch them on demand.

> 2) take mail from mutt and send it to my ISP via smtp

I covered that in my previous post.

> 3) take messages from the system, eg: cron and deliver them to that same 
> mailbox

dma might be enough for doing that.

> 4) take a simple message on the CL such as:    echo 'blah' | mail -s 'oops' 
> no...@example.com

I use mailx (in mailutils), but mutt can also do it.

> I've been using exim for years and it works well but is overkill for my needs.

Size or complexity? The size of the binary is comparable with mutt.
Granted, there's more documentation, but one barely need touch it
for the above.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Mail transfer agent

[mike.junk...@att.net]

 
On Wednesday, September 23, 2020, 09:14:42 PM CDT, Dan Ritter 
 wrote:  
 mutt is an MUA, not an MTA. 

What tasks do you want your mail server to perform? Please be
specific. We will have better advice for you once we know
exactly what you want to have happen.
-dsr-
Thanks, Dan,All I need from an MTA is:1) take mail from fetchmail and put it in 
a mailbox for mutt to display,2) take mail from mutt and send it to my ISP via 
smtp3) take messages from the system, eg: cron and deliver them to that same 
mailbox4) take a simple message on the CL such as:    echo 'blah' | mail -s 
'oops' no...@example.com

I've been using exim for years and it works well but is overkill for my needs.
Thanks,Mike
  

Re: Mail transfer agent

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Jo, 24 sep 20, 01:24:13, mike.junk...@att.net wrote:
> When I installed a minimal system on my Raspberry PI no mta was 
> installed.Though mutt claims to be a mta it seems it only will fetch 
> mail not send it.Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

This mail is sent using (neo)mutt's SMTP support.

At a minimum you must set 'smtp_url' in your muttrc. If you don't 
specify username and password mutt will ask for it interactively.

See 'man muttrc' for more details.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Mail transfer agent

[David Wright]

On Thu 24 Sep 2020 at 01:24:13 (+), mike.junk...@att.net wrote:
> When I installed a minimal system on my Raspberry PI no mta was installed.
> Though mutt claims to be a mta it seems it only will fetch mail not send it.
> Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

It's an MUA, so you can send emails via your ISP's smarthost
submission port. You need to set lines like the following in
your muttrc:

set·smtp_url="smtp://loginn...@smtp.server.net:587/"$
set·smtp_pass="accountpassword"$
set·smtp_authenticators="plain"$
set·envelope_from_address="usern...@domainname.tld"$
set·use_envelope_from$

where:

loginname and accountpassword are the authentication pair for the
smarthost,

smtp.server.net:587 is the smarthost and port number,

plain assumes you're using TLS encryption on the connection, so the
password is sent in plaintext,

usern...@domainname.tld is an routeable email address (ie a real one)
that the smarthost will accept for authorisation (ie for MAIL FROM:).

You may need to read-protect the file as there's a password in it.

> After struggling with postfix for several days without being able
> to send or receive mail, except like now via webmail, I'm about
> ready to go back to exim4 even though it's overkill for a single
> user on a single computer. Is there a light weight mta appropriate
> for a single user that's easy to configure?

Actually I use exim for all my emails except this list, where I use
mutt itself.

Cheers,
David.