Re: [SOLVED] Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[gene heskett]

On 5/18/23 01:29, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 07:01:30PM +0100, Joe wrote:


Oh dear, oh dear...

Very sorry for the wasted time.

When I tried the wired mouse I did not actually unplug the wireless
mouse receiver, so it was still generating scroll events every 200ms


\o/

No wasted time. Everyone got to sharpen their debugging tools.

The nicest part is, this person (it was Kent West, I think) who
suggested electromagnetic interference wasn't that off the mark
(I was one of those saying "nah, not the hardware..." :-)

Thanks for resolving the suspense.

Cheers


And Kent was probably right, the mouse battery died, the receiver upped 
the gain, and something in the environment was making enough noise it 
was being interpreted as a wheel related signal.

As a broadcast engineer I can easily visualize that.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: [SOLVED] Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[tomas]

On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 07:01:30PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> 
> Oh dear, oh dear...
> 
> Very sorry for the wasted time.
> 
> When I tried the wired mouse I did not actually unplug the wireless
> mouse receiver, so it was still generating scroll events every 200ms

\o/

No wasted time. Everyone got to sharpen their debugging tools.

The nicest part is, this person (it was Kent West, I think) who
suggested electromagnetic interference wasn't that off the mark
(I was one of those saying "nah, not the hardware..." :-)

Thanks for resolving the suspense.

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: [SOLVED] Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Charles Curley]

On Wed, 17 May 2023 19:01:30 +0100
Joe  wrote:

> Quick removal and replacement of mouse battery and problem solved.

Interesting. Usually when my rodent batteries fail, it simply stops
working.

XFCE's power monitor also see the batteries for my keyboards and
rodents. Logitech k330 and m215, respectively. You may need to install
it.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: [SOLVED] Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Christoph Brinkhaus]

Am Wed, May 17, 2023 at 07:01:30PM +0100 schrieb Joe:

Hello Joe,
> 
> Oh dear, oh dear...
> 
> Very sorry for the wasted time.
This has been no wasted time. You have found an additional root cause
for some unexpected behaviour all of us will be aware of from now on.
> 
> When I tried the wired mouse I did not actually unplug the wireless
> mouse receiver, so it was still generating scroll events every 200ms
> while over a window (presumably being ignored by the kernel when it was
> over unscrollable things like the background and panels.
> 
> Quick removal and replacement of mouse battery and problem solved.
And again we can blame the hardware :-).
> 
> As partial reparation, could I recommend evemu-tools to anyone who
> doesn't know about it? Cleans up that nasty raw output from cat
> /dev/input/mouseX and adds times. Problem solved immediately with its
> help.
This is good to know.
> 
> OK, I can't explain why Knoppix didn't also do it, the mouse was still
> generating masses of scroll events. That really messed up the
> troubleshooting. Knoppix doesn't have evemu-tools, but the raw mouse
> events were enough by that time.
It can be that the xinput of Knoppix is configured to do more
de-bouncing of scroll events than the Debian system. You reported that
Knoppix has been very slow. It could also be that Knoppix could not
handle all the mouse events and did the de-bouncing by unintended
throttling :-).

Thank you for reporting about the fix and for the recommendation!

Kind regards,
Christoph
-- 
Ist die Katze gesund
schmeckt sie dem Hund.


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Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Joe]

On Wed, 17 May 2023 12:18:17 +0200
Christoph Brinkhaus  wrote:

> Am Tue, May 16, 2023 at 07:26:41PM +0100 schrieb Joe:
> 
> Hello Joe,
> 
> > On Tue, 16 May 2023 12:29:02 +0200
> > Christoph Brinkhaus  wrote:
> >   
> > > Am Tue, May 16, 2023 at 11:02:50AM +0100 schrieb Joe:
> > > 
> > > Hello Joe,
> > > 
> > > [...deleted a lot...]  
> > > > On Tue, 16 May 2023 10:44:03 +0100
> > > > Joe  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > > One idea is to try a minimalistic window manager as twm to
> > > > > > find out if the issue is related to xfce.  
> > > > > 
> > > > > OK, tried twm and fvvm. Both unusable, as a left-click brings
> > > > > up a menu for a fraction of a second. Couldn't log out of
> > > > > either, had to switch to console and uninstall them. But they
> > > > > confirm the mouse problem. It's obviously fairly fundamental.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Just tried previous kernel, but also bad. I can assume by now
> > > > > that nobody else has seen this problem.
> > > > 
> > > > Just as a sanity check, I booted Knoppix, and of course there's
> > > > no problem, it's just an order of magnitude too slow from USB
> > > > to do anything useful.
> > > 
> > > Now it seems as if the issue is related to X or the driver stuff.
> > > I have three ideas.
> > > 
> > > 1. Do you have any xorg.conf things in /etc or the related
> > > directories? Nowadays X is not so bad in guessing the hardware
> > > which makes xorg.conf and such obsolete. If there are X config
> > > files it might be worth to move them to a safe place and to try
> > > without them.  
> > 
> > I can't find anything. This is a relatively new sid (installed on
> > new hardware, opportunity to get rid of some junk) and I have never
> > needed to mess about with X.  
> > > 
> > > 2. It is unlikely, but it might be that some of the xinput related
> > > programs or libraries have been corrupted. It might help to
> > > reinstall them.  
> > 
> > I have nothing in the apt cache, so I'll need to locate debs. I
> > eventually gave up and copied out the (possibly) offending upgrade
> > log and added newlines so it was actually readable. What jumped out
> > then were three xserver packages (from a total of 118). I located
> > previous versions in the cache, installed them, rebooted and
> > confirmed they were now running, and... just the same.   
> 
> My only remaining idea is that packages have been corrupted during
> download. This is not likely but can have multiple root causes.
> 
> I do not know if apt or dpkg check the integrity of the packages
> before installation. I also do not know by heart how to check them
> manually.
> 
> If this does not help I am running out of ideas.

Me too.

> I do not think that it is a hardware issue because Knoppix works.
> I do not think that it is a general issue of sid because then the same
> issue would have been seen by other users.
> It should be related to "something" on your machine.

Yes, to all of that. I'm getting closer to reinstalling, which is an
admission of defeat.

Thank you for your time and efforts, and everyone else who responded.
If I do have any success I'll report back. As well as the bug report...

Joe

Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Christoph Brinkhaus]

Am Tue, May 16, 2023 at 07:26:41PM +0100 schrieb Joe:

Hello Joe,

> On Tue, 16 May 2023 12:29:02 +0200
> Christoph Brinkhaus  wrote:
> 
> > Am Tue, May 16, 2023 at 11:02:50AM +0100 schrieb Joe:
> > 
> > Hello Joe,
> > 
> > [...deleted a lot...]
> > > On Tue, 16 May 2023 10:44:03 +0100
> > > Joe  wrote:
> > >   
> > > > > One idea is to try a minimalistic window manager as twm to find
> > > > > out if the issue is related to xfce.
> > > > 
> > > > OK, tried twm and fvvm. Both unusable, as a left-click brings up a
> > > > menu for a fraction of a second. Couldn't log out of either, had
> > > > to switch to console and uninstall them. But they confirm the
> > > > mouse problem. It's obviously fairly fundamental.
> > > > 
> > > > Just tried previous kernel, but also bad. I can assume by now that
> > > > nobody else has seen this problem.  
> > > 
> > > Just as a sanity check, I booted Knoppix, and of course there's no
> > > problem, it's just an order of magnitude too slow from USB to do
> > > anything useful.  
> > 
> > Now it seems as if the issue is related to X or the driver stuff.
> > I have three ideas.
> > 
> > 1. Do you have any xorg.conf things in /etc or the related
> > directories? Nowadays X is not so bad in guessing the hardware which
> > makes xorg.conf and such obsolete. If there are X config files it
> > might be worth to move them to a safe place and to try without them.
> 
> I can't find anything. This is a relatively new sid (installed on new
> hardware, opportunity to get rid of some junk) and I have never needed
> to mess about with X.
> > 
> > 2. It is unlikely, but it might be that some of the xinput related
> > programs or libraries have been corrupted. It might help to reinstall
> > them.
> 
> I have nothing in the apt cache, so I'll need to locate debs. I
> eventually gave up and copied out the (possibly) offending upgrade log
> and added newlines so it was actually readable. What jumped out then
> were three xserver packages (from a total of 118). I located previous
> versions in the cache, installed them, rebooted and confirmed they were
> now running, and... just the same. 

My only remaining idea is that packages have been corrupted during
download. This is not likely but can have multiple root causes.

I do not know if apt or dpkg check the integrity of the packages
before installation. I also do not know by heart how to check them
manually.

If this does not help I am running out of ideas.
I do not think that it is a hardware issue because Knoppix works.
I do not think that it is a general issue of sid because then the same
issue would have been seen by other users.
It should be related to "something" on your machine.

> > 
> > 3. The comparison of Xorg.log of Debian and Knoppix may give some
> > indication.
> 
> They look broadly similar, although it is easy to miss things among
> that much output.

I wish you will find the issue. In case I will have new ideas or so
I will chime in again.

Kind regards,
Christoph
-- 
Ist die Katze gesund
schmeckt sie dem Hund.


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Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Joe]

On Wed, 17 May 2023 10:07:42 +0100
Joe  wrote:


> > 
> > If you are able to get a terminal running under your
> > crippled X11 [1], then it'd be interesting to compare
> > the output of "xinput --list --long" between a working
> > and a non-working config.  
> 
> OK, done for sid, I'll boot into Knoppix when I have a moment.
> > 

There's only one difference, repeated in three places:

Sid version:

⎜   ↳ MOSART Semi. 2.4G Wireless Mouse  id=9
[slave  pointer  (2)] Reporting 7 classes:
Class originated from: 9. Type: XIButtonClass
Buttons supported: 9
Button labels: "Button Left" "Button Middle" "Button
Right" "Button Wheel Up" "Button Wheel Down" "Button Horiz Wheel Left"
"Button Horiz Wheel Right" "Button Side" "Button Extra" Button state:
Class originated from: 9. Type: XIValuatorClass Detail for Valuator 0:
  Label: Rel X
  Range: -1.00 - -1.00
  Resolution: 0 units/m
  Mode: relative
Class originated from: 9. Type: XIValuatorClass
Detail for Valuator 1:
  Label: Rel Y
  Range: -1.00 - -1.00
  Resolution: 0 units/m
  Mode: relative
Class originated from: 9. Type: XIValuatorClass
Detail for Valuator 2:
  Label: Rel Horiz Scroll
  Range: -1.00 - -1.00
  Resolution: 0 units/m
  Mode: relative
Class originated from: 9. Type: XIValuatorClass
Detail for Valuator 3:
  Label: Rel Vert Scroll
  Range: -1.00 - -1.00
  Resolution: 0 units/m
  Mode: relative
Class originated from: 9. Type: XIScrollClass
Scroll info for Valuator 2
  type: 2 (horizontal)
  increment: 120.00
  flags: 0x0
Class originated from: 9. Type: XIScrollClass
Scroll info for Valuator 3
  type: 1 (vertical)
  increment: 120.00
  flags: 0x0


34c34
< increment: 120.00
---
> increment: 15.00

I don't know how significant this is. The scroll wheel in both distros
seems to work normally, and it's the interpretation of a mouseover as a
click or scroll which is the problem.

-- 
Joe

Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Joe]

On Wed, 17 May 2023 06:35:54 +0200
 wrote:

> On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 08:07:51PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> > On Tue, 16 May 2023 13:43:26 -0500
> > Kent West  wrote:
> >   
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Just for kicks, unplug the keyboard and see if the mouse starts
> > > behaving.  
> > 
> > 
> > No, no change.  
> 
> No surprise. People still barking up the hardware tree,
> while all evidence is pointing up the software tree :)

I think so.
> 
>  - change came with an upgrade

Probably, nothing else was changed or installed around that time. I
have rolled back the kernel and the three xserver packages to no effect,
and there seem to be no other possible suspects. But there were 118
packages, including several libraries.

>  - change from wireless mouse to wired: no effect
>  - other distro: mouse works
> 
> If you are able to get a terminal running under your
> crippled X11 [1], then it'd be interesting to compare
> the output of "xinput --list --long" between a working
> and a non-working config.

OK, done for sid, I'll boot into Knoppix when I have a moment.
> 
> My hunch would be that something's rotten in the state
> of Sid.

Definitely. I'm hoping to avoid reinstalling, at least partly because I
may well just reinstall the problem, but GIMP and.some other things are
unusable at the moment. 
> 
>
Thanks for your help.

Joe

Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[tomas]

On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 06:35:54AM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> [1] Never tried it, but "setxkbmap -option keypad:pointerkeys"

Forgot the relevant link:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_keys

Cheers
-- 
t


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Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[tomas]

On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 08:07:51PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> On Tue, 16 May 2023 13:43:26 -0500
> Kent West  wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Just for kicks, unplug the keyboard and see if the mouse starts
> > behaving.
> 
> 
> No, no change.

No surprise. People still barking up the hardware tree,
while all evidence is pointing up the software tree :)

 - change came with an upgrade
 - change from wireless mouse to wired: no effect
 - other distro: mouse works

If you are able to get a terminal running under your
crippled X11 [1], then it'd be interesting to compare
the output of "xinput --list --long" between a working
and a non-working config.

My hunch would be that something's rotten in the state
of Sid.

Cheers

[1] Never tried it, but "setxkbmap -option keypad:pointerkeys"
   reportedly gives you a keyboard mouse:
   setxkbmap -option keypad:pointerkeys.
   Alternatively, you can always log into a Linux terminal
   and talk to your X like so:
   DISPLAY=:0 xinput --list --long
   (or whatever your DISPLAY var under X is).

-- 
tomás


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Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Kent West]

Just for kicks, unplug the keyboard and see if the mouse starts behaving.

>
>

-- 
Kent West<")))><
IT Support / Client Support
Abilene Christian University
Westing Peacefully - http://kentwest.blogspot.com

Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Joe]

On Tue, 16 May 2023 12:29:02 +0200
Christoph Brinkhaus  wrote:

> Am Tue, May 16, 2023 at 11:02:50AM +0100 schrieb Joe:
> 
> Hello Joe,
> 
> [...deleted a lot...]
> > On Tue, 16 May 2023 10:44:03 +0100
> > Joe  wrote:
> >   
> > > > One idea is to try a minimalistic window manager as twm to find
> > > > out if the issue is related to xfce.
> > > 
> > > OK, tried twm and fvvm. Both unusable, as a left-click brings up a
> > > menu for a fraction of a second. Couldn't log out of either, had
> > > to switch to console and uninstall them. But they confirm the
> > > mouse problem. It's obviously fairly fundamental.
> > > 
> > > Just tried previous kernel, but also bad. I can assume by now that
> > > nobody else has seen this problem.  
> > 
> > Just as a sanity check, I booted Knoppix, and of course there's no
> > problem, it's just an order of magnitude too slow from USB to do
> > anything useful.  
> 
> Now it seems as if the issue is related to X or the driver stuff.
> I have three ideas.
> 
> 1. Do you have any xorg.conf things in /etc or the related
> directories? Nowadays X is not so bad in guessing the hardware which
> makes xorg.conf and such obsolete. If there are X config files it
> might be worth to move them to a safe place and to try without them.

I can't find anything. This is a relatively new sid (installed on new
hardware, opportunity to get rid of some junk) and I have never needed
to mess about with X.
> 
> 2. It is unlikely, but it might be that some of the xinput related
> programs or libraries have been corrupted. It might help to reinstall
> them.

I have nothing in the apt cache, so I'll need to locate debs. I
eventually gave up and copied out the (possibly) offending upgrade log
and added newlines so it was actually readable. What jumped out then
were three xserver packages (from a total of 118). I located previous
versions in the cache, installed them, rebooted and confirmed they were
now running, and... just the same. 
> 
> 3. The comparison of Xorg.log of Debian and Knoppix may give some
> indication.

They look broadly similar, although it is easy to miss things among
that much output.

-- 
Joe

Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Christoph Brinkhaus]

Am Tue, May 16, 2023 at 11:02:50AM +0100 schrieb Joe:

Hello Joe,

[...deleted a lot...]
> On Tue, 16 May 2023 10:44:03 +0100
> Joe  wrote:
> 
> > > One idea is to try a minimalistic window manager as twm to find out
> > > if the issue is related to xfce.  
> > 
> > OK, tried twm and fvvm. Both unusable, as a left-click brings up a
> > menu for a fraction of a second. Couldn't log out of either, had to
> > switch to console and uninstall them. But they confirm the mouse
> > problem. It's obviously fairly fundamental.
> > 
> > Just tried previous kernel, but also bad. I can assume by now that
> > nobody else has seen this problem.
> 
> Just as a sanity check, I booted Knoppix, and of course there's no
> problem, it's just an order of magnitude too slow from USB to do
> anything useful.

Now it seems as if the issue is related to X or the driver stuff.
I have three ideas.

1. Do you have any xorg.conf things in /etc or the related
directories? Nowadays X is not so bad in guessing the hardware which
makes xorg.conf and such obsolete. If there are X config files it
might be worth to move them to a safe place and to try without them.

2. It is unlikely, but it might be that some of the xinput related
programs or libraries have been corrupted. It might help to reinstall
them.

3. The comparison of Xorg.log of Debian and Knoppix may give some
indication.

Kind regards,
Christoph
-- 
Ist die Katze gesund
schmeckt sie dem Hund.


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Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Joe]

On Tue, 16 May 2023 10:44:03 +0100
Joe  wrote:

> On Mon, 15 May 2023 22:18:12 +0200
> Christoph Brinkhaus  wrote:
> 
> > Am Mon, May 15, 2023 at 08:57:38PM +0100 schrieb Joe:
> > 
> > Hello Joe,
> >   
> > > On Mon, 15 May 2023 19:35:23 +
> > > "Andrew M.A. Cater"  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 08:15:42PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, 15 May 2023 13:26:06 -0500
> > > > > Kent West  wrote:
> > > > >   
> > > > > > On 5/15/23 11:57, Joe wrote:  
> > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > >  
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Then go from there.
> > > > > >   
> > > > > Not much to go on so far. Thanks for your suggestions. This
> > > > > looks like a bug in an upgrade, but I can't see evidence of
> > > > > anyone else seeing it.
> > > > > 
> > > > > This is the real problem with running sid: not that things
> > > > > break, but that they only break for me.
> > > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > If you run sid, you are absolutely expected to be able to
> > > > resolve any problems you encounter. If it breaks, you get to
> > > > keep both pieces. That's the contract with sid, more than with
> > > > the other tranches of Debian (which comes with no overall
> > > > warranty).
> > > > 
> > > > If you want increased stability and less shiny new stuff, you
> > > > run stable or, if you feel able to help debug and develop it,
> > > > testing.
> > > > 
> > > > Them's the breaks: and, as ever, DontBreakDebian by mixing
> > > > different suites.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Yes, I know all that, I've been running sid since sarge was
> > > stable, and only had to reinstall twice in that time.
> > 
> > One idea is to try a minimalistic window manager as twm to find out
> > if the issue is related to xfce.  
> 
> OK, tried twm and fvvm. Both unusable, as a left-click brings up a
> menu for a fraction of a second. Couldn't log out of either, had to
> switch to console and uninstall them. But they confirm the mouse
> problem. It's obviously fairly fundamental.
> 
> Just tried previous kernel, but also bad. I can assume by now that
> nobody else has seen this problem.

Just as a sanity check, I booted Knoppix, and of course there's no
problem, it's just an order of magnitude too slow from USB to do
anything useful.

-- 
Joe

Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Joe]

On Mon, 15 May 2023 22:18:12 +0200
Christoph Brinkhaus  wrote:

> Am Mon, May 15, 2023 at 08:57:38PM +0100 schrieb Joe:
> 
> Hello Joe,
> 
> > On Mon, 15 May 2023 19:35:23 +
> > "Andrew M.A. Cater"  wrote:
> >   
> > > On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 08:15:42PM +0100, Joe wrote:  
> > > > On Mon, 15 May 2023 13:26:06 -0500
> > > > Kent West  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On 5/15/23 11:57, Joe wrote:
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > Then go from there.
> > > > > 
> > > > Not much to go on so far. Thanks for your suggestions. This
> > > > looks like a bug in an upgrade, but I can't see evidence of
> > > > anyone else seeing it.
> > > > 
> > > > This is the real problem with running sid: not that things
> > > > break, but that they only break for me.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > If you run sid, you are absolutely expected to be able to resolve
> > > any problems you encounter. If it breaks, you get to keep both
> > > pieces. That's the contract with sid, more than with the other
> > > tranches of Debian (which comes with no overall warranty).
> > > 
> > > If you want increased stability and less shiny new stuff, you run
> > > stable or, if you feel able to help debug and develop it, testing.
> > > 
> > > Them's the breaks: and, as ever, DontBreakDebian by mixing
> > > different suites.
> > >   
> > 
> > Yes, I know all that, I've been running sid since sarge was stable,
> > and only had to reinstall twice in that time.  
> 
> One idea is to try a minimalistic window manager as twm to find out if
> the issue is related to xfce.

OK, tried twm and fvvm. Both unusable, as a left-click brings up a menu
for a fraction of a second. Couldn't log out of either, had to switch
to console and uninstall them. But they confirm the mouse problem. It's
obviously fairly fundamental.

Just tried previous kernel, but also bad. I can assume by now that
nobody else has seen this problem.

Thanks for your help,
Joe

Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Joe]

On Mon, 15 May 2023 22:18:12 +0200
Christoph Brinkhaus  wrote:

> Am Mon, May 15, 2023 at 08:57:38PM +0100 schrieb Joe:
> 
> Hello Joe,
> 
> > On Mon, 15 May 2023 19:35:23 +
> > "Andrew M.A. Cater"  wrote:
> >   
> > > On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 08:15:42PM +0100, Joe wrote:  
> > > > On Mon, 15 May 2023 13:26:06 -0500
> > > > Kent West  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On 5/15/23 11:57, Joe wrote:
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > Then go from there.
> > > > > 
> > > > Not much to go on so far. Thanks for your suggestions. This
> > > > looks like a bug in an upgrade, but I can't see evidence of
> > > > anyone else seeing it.
> > > > 
> > > > This is the real problem with running sid: not that things
> > > > break, but that they only break for me.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > If you run sid, you are absolutely expected to be able to resolve
> > > any problems you encounter. If it breaks, you get to keep both
> > > pieces. That's the contract with sid, more than with the other
> > > tranches of Debian (which comes with no overall warranty).
> > > 
> > > If you want increased stability and less shiny new stuff, you run
> > > stable or, if you feel able to help debug and develop it, testing.
> > > 
> > > Them's the breaks: and, as ever, DontBreakDebian by mixing
> > > different suites.
> > >   
> > 
> > Yes, I know all that, I've been running sid since sarge was stable,
> > and only had to reinstall twice in that time.  
> 
> One idea is to try a minimalistic window manager as twm to find out if
> the issue is related to xfce.

OK, thank you, busy now, will try later.
> 
> The second idea could be to run apt-get autoremove - but I am not sure
> if this is a good idea for a non standard Debian installation. For the
> standard installations it is recommended to get rid of outdated
> libraries. But since you seem to be a long time Debian user I do not
> tell you anything new.
> 

I did that after the big update, as a kernel was involved and
significant space could be recovered.

Thanks.

-- 
Joe

Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Kent West]

On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 2:16 PM Joe  wrote:

> On Mon, 15 May 2023 13:26:06 -0500
> Kent West  wrote:
>
> > On 5/15/23 11:57, Joe wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Upgraded sid two days ago for the first time for a week or so. Today
> > > have serious mouse problems. Xfce on AMD. First thing tried of
> > > course was another mouse, just the same.
> > >
> > > The computer is barely usable in this state. There were too many
> > > packages upgraded, including the kernel, to be able to narrow down
> > > the culprit or attempt a rollback, well over 100. Google tells me
> > > various things about making the mouse do things, but they all seem
> > > to involve some extra mouse tweak package, none of which I have
> > > installed.
> >
> >
> > I would boot into the CMOS/BIOS/System Setup, and make sure the mouse
> > works properly there (assuming your hardware has such a setup).
>
> No mouse pointer there.
> >
> > I would try a different (new) user.
>
> Exactly the same.
> >
> > I would try in console-mode only (may have to install 'gpm').
>
> Yes, mouse pointer present in console with gpm running, but I can't
> tell if there's any misbehaviour, it doesn't actually do much. It
> selects in mc, but not in aptitude.
> >
> > Then go from there.
> >
> Not much to go on so far. Thanks for your suggestions. This looks like
> a bug in an upgrade, but I can't see evidence of anyone else seeing it.
>
> This is the real problem with running sid: not that things break, but
> that they only break for me.
>
> --
> Joe
>
>
Do you have a new lamp on your computer desk that's putting out EM?

Is your mouse wireless or wired? Try a different USB port?

-- 
Kent West<")))><
IT Support / Client Support
Abilene Christian University
Westing Peacefully - http://kentwest.blogspot.com

Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Kent West]

On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 2:16 PM Joe  wrote:

> On Mon, 15 May 2023 13:26:06 -0500
> Kent West  wrote:
>
> > On 5/15/23 11:57, Joe wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Upgraded sid two days ago for the first time for a week or so. Today
> > > have serious mouse problems. Xfce on AMD. First thing tried of
> > > course was another mouse, just the same.
> > >
> > > The computer is barely usable in this state. There were too many
> > > packages upgraded, including the kernel, to be able to narrow down
> > > the culprit or attempt a rollback, well over 100. Google tells me
> > > various things about making the mouse do things, but they all seem
> > > to involve some extra mouse tweak package, none of which I have
> > > installed.
> >
> >
> > I would boot into the CMOS/BIOS/System Setup, and make sure the mouse
> > works properly there (assuming your hardware has such a setup).
>
> No mouse pointer there.
> >
> > I would try a different (new) user.
>
> Exactly the same.
> >
> > I would try in console-mode only (may have to install 'gpm').
>
> Yes, mouse pointer present in console with gpm running, but I can't
> tell if there's any misbehaviour, it doesn't actually do much. It
> selects in mc, but not in aptitude.
> >
> > Then go from there.
> >
> Not much to go on so far. Thanks for your suggestions. This looks like
> a bug in an upgrade, but I can't see evidence of anyone else seeing it.
>
> This is the real problem with running sid: not that things break, but
> that they only break for me.
>
> --
> Joe
>
>
I should have also suggested a different window manager:

# taskselect

Another console-based app in which the mouse should function is links2.

-- 
Kent West<")))><
IT Support / Client Support
Abilene Christian University
Westing Peacefully - http://kentwest.blogspot.com

Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Stefan Monnier]

> It's just the problems I get don't seem to happen to anyone else. But
> then I suppose, like Land Rovers, there's no two identical sid
> installations anywhere.

That's indeed a downside of Debian's package management where the set of
packages (and their versions) installed just before an upgrade can have
a vast impact on the set of packages you end up with.

In systems like Guix/Nix the set of packages you end up with is uniquely
determined by the "specification" of your system.  In such a system,
upgrading just computes the new set of packages that should be present
(regardless of those currently installed) and then figures out how to
change the current system to get there.


Stefan

Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Christoph Brinkhaus]

Am Mon, May 15, 2023 at 08:57:38PM +0100 schrieb Joe:

Hello Joe,

> On Mon, 15 May 2023 19:35:23 +
> "Andrew M.A. Cater"  wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 08:15:42PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> > > On Mon, 15 May 2023 13:26:06 -0500
> > > Kent West  wrote:
> > >   
> > > > On 5/15/23 11:57, Joe wrote:  
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > Then go from there.
> > > >   
> > > Not much to go on so far. Thanks for your suggestions. This looks
> > > like a bug in an upgrade, but I can't see evidence of anyone else
> > > seeing it.
> > > 
> > > This is the real problem with running sid: not that things break,
> > > but that they only break for me.
> > >   
> > 
> > If you run sid, you are absolutely expected to be able to resolve any
> > problems you encounter. If it breaks, you get to keep both pieces.
> > That's the contract with sid, more than with the other tranches of
> > Debian (which comes with no overall warranty).
> > 
> > If you want increased stability and less shiny new stuff, you run
> > stable or, if you feel able to help debug and develop it, testing.
> > 
> > Them's the breaks: and, as ever, DontBreakDebian by mixing different
> > suites.
> > 
> 
> Yes, I know all that, I've been running sid since sarge was stable, and
> only had to reinstall twice in that time.

One idea is to try a minimalistic window manager as twm to find out if
the issue is related to xfce.

The second idea could be to run apt-get autoremove - but I am not sure
if this is a good idea for a non standard Debian installation. For the
standard installations it is recommended to get rid of outdated
libraries. But since you seem to be a long time Debian user I do not
tell you anything new.

> It's just the problems I get don't seem to happen to anyone else. But
> then I suppose, like Land Rovers, there's no two identical sid
> installations anywhere.

I like that image.
Land Rovers are the world best car for their purpose!
They are legends forever.

Kind regards,
Christoph
-- 
Ist die Katze gesund
schmeckt sie dem Hund.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Mon, May 15, 2023 at 08:15:42PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> On Mon, 15 May 2023 13:26:06 -0500
> Kent West  wrote:
> 
> > On 5/15/23 11:57, Joe wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > 
> > Then go from there.
> > 
> Not much to go on so far. Thanks for your suggestions. This looks like
> a bug in an upgrade, but I can't see evidence of anyone else seeing it.
> 
> This is the real problem with running sid: not that things break, but
> that they only break for me.
> 

If you run sid, you are absolutely expected to be able to resolve any
problems you encounter. If it breaks, you get to keep both pieces.
That's the contract with sid, more than with the other tranches of
Debian (which comes with no overall warranty).

If you want increased stability and less shiny new stuff, you run stable
or, if you feel able to help debug and develop it, testing.

Them's the breaks: and, as ever, DontBreakDebian by mixing different suites.

Andy Cater

> -- 
> Joe
> 

Re: Mouse trouble on sid

[Kent West]

On 5/15/23 11:57, Joe wrote:

Hi,

Upgraded sid two days ago for the first time for a week or so. Today
have serious mouse problems. Xfce on AMD. First thing tried of course
was another mouse, just the same.

The computer is barely usable in this state. There were too many
packages upgraded, including the kernel, to be able to narrow down the
culprit or attempt a rollback, well over 100. Google tells me various
things about making the mouse do things, but they all seem to involve
some extra mouse tweak package, none of which I have installed.



I would boot into the CMOS/BIOS/System Setup, and make sure the mouse 
works properly there (assuming your hardware has such a setup).


I would try a different (new) user.

I would try in console-mode only (may have to install 'gpm').

Then go from there.

--

Kent