Re: Old Computers
On 06/03/2015 04:48 PM, John Hasler wrote: Renaud writes: Which certainly taught you the hard way to draw one (or several) diagonal pencil or ink lines across the top of your card deck... Or to number your cards so that you could simply run a scrambled deck through the card sorter. That's cheatingyou have to hand sort those things!! -- JM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5570c666.2070...@gmail.com
Re: Old Computers
On 06/03/2015 09:55 AM, Mike McClain wrote: On Tue, Jun 02, 2015 at 07:04:13PM -0500, Jose Martinez wrote: And I will probably not use these system(s) on line much if any at all. So most of the security issues will fixed or not will not really be a problem in this situation. I see I've sparked a pretty good discussion on the list. I sure appreciate all the advice/information it will come in very handy when I actually have the systems in hand. -- JM If you need linux on a 386 that's where I started with DosLinux. I still have a copy if you're interested. As I recall no Xwindows just command line. Mike -- Why fit in when you can stand out? - Dr. Seuss I may take you up on that, depending on what I end up with. Hopefully, I'll have at least one motherboard with a pentium class chipset. But, still, it might be interesting to get even the older ones up, just for laughs. -- JM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5570c6c8.8020...@gmail.com
Re: Old Computers
On 06/04/2015 05:44 PM, Jose Martinez wrote: On 06/03/2015 09:55 AM, Mike McClain wrote: On Tue, Jun 02, 2015 at 07:04:13PM -0500, Jose Martinez wrote: And I will probably not use these system(s) on line much if any at all. So most of the security issues will fixed or not will not really be a problem in this situation. I see I've sparked a pretty good discussion on the list. I sure appreciate all the advice/information it will come in very handy when I actually have the systems in hand. -- JM If you need linux on a 386 that's where I started with DosLinux. I still have a copy if you're interested. As I recall no Xwindows just command line. Mike -- Why fit in when you can stand out? - Dr. Seuss I may take you up on that, depending on what I end up with. Hopefully, I'll have at least one motherboard with a pentium class chipset. But, still, it might be interesting to get even the older ones up, just for laughs. Just for ducks I installed Caldera to an older machine. It was pitiful to watch Netscape Navigator try to update itself. :( Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5570ca65.6080...@gmail.com
Re: Old Computers
On 06/03/2015 05:30 AM, Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Tue, 2015-06-02 at 19:04 -0500, Jose Martinez wrote: I see I've sparked a pretty good discussion on the list. I sure appreciate all the advice/information it will come in very handy when I actually have the systems in hand. You could always try mining Bitcoin: http://www.righto.com/2015/05/bitcoin-mining-on-55-year-old-ibm-1401.html But I guess none of your systems are quite as old? ;) Oh, Man, Holerith (It's been so long I'm not sure how to spell it anymore)...I learned to type on an IBM keypunch machine punching 80 column cards full of data for some statistical analysis (wrote the analysis proceedures in SPSS, too). Those were the days:-D -- JM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/556f5aa9.60...@gmail.com
Re: Old Computers
0C7 and 0CB compile errors anyone ? Cheers, Ron. -- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they come to fight you, and then you win. -- Gandhi -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150603170919.0286c...@ron.cerrocora.org
RE: Old Computers
-Original Message- From: Jose Martinez [mailto:jomartinez...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 12:51 PM To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Old Computers On 06/03/2015 05:30 AM, Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Tue, 2015-06-02 at 19:04 -0500, Jose Martinez wrote: I see I've sparked a pretty good discussion on the list. I sure appreciate all the advice/information it will come in very handy when I actually have the systems in hand. You could always try mining Bitcoin: http://www.righto.com/2015/05/bitcoin-mining-on-55-year-old-ibm-1401.h tml But I guess none of your systems are quite as old? ;) Oh, Man, Holerith (It's been so long I'm not sure how to spell it anymore)...I learned to type on an IBM keypunch machine punching 80 column cards full of data for some statistical analysis (wrote the analysis proceedures in SPSS, too). Those were the days:-D And do you remember carrying your punched card deck from the keypunch room to the data center--and have someone bump into you and spill the cards on the floor? Larry -- JM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/556f5aa9.60...@gmail.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/000f01d09e39$18b69dd0$4a23d970$@netptc.net
Re: Old Computers
Jose Martinez wrote: Marc Shapiro wrote: Jose Martinez wrote: Yeah, there's nothing like making an antique useful. I remember the days of the PDP-11 running *nixWhat I wouldn't give to come up with one of those old things!! My first programming class, back in 1976 was on a PDP-11. Those were the days. Bootstrap with physical toggle switches on the box to enter the binary code. Boy do I remember those toggle switches!!! A few years back, I built a Z-80 based toy, and that was one of things I wanted t have...Toggle switches and lights on the front panel! Made it work too. Put that PDP 11 experience to work! Here is a recent job posting for a PDP 11 Software Designer for a nuclear power plant. Some things never go out of style! Especially when working at a nuclear power plant. Hope they will have 500 years worth of spare parts. https://ca.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/28135735 January 20, 2015 Job description Design of new PDP-11 assembly level software as well as the extension of existing automated control systems to accommodate new functionality. ... Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Old Computers
On 06/02/2015 11:45 PM, Marc Shapiro wrote: On 06/02/2015 08:11 PM, Jose Martinez wrote: On 06/02/2015 10:08 PM, Celejar wrote: On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:46:17 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday 02 June 2015 16:28:30 lostson wrote: On Tue, 2015-06-02 at 16:07 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Tuesday 02 June 2015 14:55:51 Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Mon, 2015-06-01 at 21:14 -0500, Jose Martinez wrote: Hmm, that is a little disappointing. But, I can probably run Squeeze. Nothing like stone knives and bear skins!:-) I think even squeeze would be a challenge (maybe a fun one though!) when it comes to ram and disk space. But there's always vintage operating systems for vintage computers :) I thought of DSL. But it needs an i486. :-( http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall Lisi How about Tiny Core Linux http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/faq.html#req Needs i486. :-( Ah, nostalgia. I learned linux using BasicLinux, which is still around, and will apparently run on a 386: http://distro.ibiblio.org/baslinux/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BasicLinux I still remember that incredible feeling, some many years ago, when I put the floppy into a Windows box, rebooted, insmod'd the relevant ethernet driver module, brought the network up, and had an actual working networked *nix terminal ;) Yeah, there's nothing like making an antique useful. I remember the days of the PDP-11 running *nixWhat I wouldn't give to come up with one of those old things!! Lisi Celejar My first programming class, back in 1976 was on a PDP-11. Those were the days. Bootstrap with physical toggle switches on the box to enter the binary code. Marc Boy do I remember those toggle switches!!! A few years back, I built a Z-80 based toy, and that was one of things I wanted t have...Toggle switches and lights on the front panel! Made it work too. -- JM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/556f59d1.2070...@gmail.com
Re: Old Computers
On Wed, 3 Jun 2015 13:08:44 -0700 Larry Owens ow...@netptc.net wrote: And do you remember carrying your punched card deck from the keypunch room to the data center--and have someone bump into you and spill the cards on the floor? Which certainly taught you the hard way to draw one (or several) diagonal pencil or ink lines across the top of your card deck... Cheers, Ron. -- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they come to fight you, and then you win. -- Gandhi -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150603170841.033e8...@ron.cerrocora.org
Re: Old Computers
On Tue, Jun 02, 2015 at 07:04:13PM -0500, Jose Martinez wrote: And I will probably not use these system(s) on line much if any at all. So most of the security issues will fixed or not will not really be a problem in this situation. I see I've sparked a pretty good discussion on the list. I sure appreciate all the advice/information it will come in very handy when I actually have the systems in hand. -- JM If you need linux on a 386 that's where I started with DosLinux. I still have a copy if you're interested. As I recall no Xwindows just command line. Mike -- Why fit in when you can stand out? - Dr. Seuss -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150603145539.GA19315@playground
Re: Old Computers
Renaud writes: Which certainly taught you the hard way to draw one (or several) diagonal pencil or ink lines across the top of your card deck... Or to number your cards so that you could simply run a scrambled deck through the card sorter. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/874mmotqd6@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: Old Computers
On Tue, 2015-06-02 at 19:04 -0500, Jose Martinez wrote: I see I've sparked a pretty good discussion on the list. I sure appreciate all the advice/information it will come in very handy when I actually have the systems in hand. You could always try mining Bitcoin: http://www.righto.com/2015/05/bitcoin-mining-on-55-year-old-ibm-1401.html But I guess none of your systems are quite as old? ;) -- Cheers, Sven Arvidsson http://www.whiz.se PGP Key ID 6FAB5CD5 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Old Computers
On Jun 1, 2015, at 5:56 PM, Jose Martinez jomartinez...@gmail.com wrote: Hey guys, I'm about to be blessed with several old PC computers. By old I mean that some of them will not even have CDROM drives on them. I will probably tear them all down, mix-and-match parts and make the best system(s) I can from those parts. This is something I've done before, so the technical aspects are not a problem. I expect to use the resulting system(s) solely for play purposes to experiment with and delve into the depths of the system programming primarily for educational purposes. If any of you remember Scotty from the original Star Trek series and how he spent his off/vacation time pouring over tech manuals and playing with gadgets, well that's me! The question is, will jessie install and run on these old systems? If not, can I still get a debian distro that will? I expect that the processors on at least one of them will be at least i386 or better, so I also expect that jessie will install and run, but that my main problem will be with drivers for the legacy peripherals. I just can't find it within me to throw out what is, other than being old, a good usable computer system. I appreciate any information y'all can send my way. Welcome to the club, Jose! I do the same sort of thing for old Macintosh PowerPC machines. It’s actually kind of fun… (for certain definitions of “fun” -: ) You may find a distro targeted at so called “embedded” computers that will run on your hardware. Do a Google search for “debian linux embedded x86”. That seems to have some useful pointers. Top of the list is “emdebian”. The Emdebian page says: Embedded_Debian Change of status As of July 2014, Emdebian Grip stopped receiving updates to the unstable-grip distribution. Updates to the jessie-grip suite stopped some months before that. The last stable release of Emdebian Grip was 3.1 based on Debian GNU/Linux 7.1 Wheezy. There will be no further updates of Emdebian Grip. This information is retained for historical purposes but can be removed when wheezy is finally removed from the Debian mirrors (which will happen at some point before the next stable release after Debian Jessie 8.0). So you can at least get a version of Wheezy that might work on your hardware. Jessie looks to be not in the cards. I guess porting Systemd to minimal hardware was just too hard… )-: A little further down the list is Voyage Linux, which is a Debian derivative. I’ve used Voyage. Some of the things they do to make it fit in a very small footprint are quite creative! I learned a lot when I was doing that work. Good luck, and have lots of fun! Rick -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/a0dfe854-b601-438e-b297-beea11a9e...@pobox.com
Re: Old Computers
I'm about to be blessed with several old PC computers. By old I mean that some of them will not even have CDROM drives on them. Dont throw them away before considering that some may be given a second life, as dedicated firewall boxes, using the IPCop or IPFire distributions. Cheers, Ron. -- Toute institution qui ne suppose pas le peuple bon, et le magistrat corruptible, est vicieuse. -- Maximilien Robespierre -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150602044317.28395...@ron.cerrocora.org
Re: Old Computers
On 06/02/2015 02:01 PM, Ric Moore wrote: On 06/02/2015 11:07 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Tuesday 02 June 2015 14:55:51 Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Mon, 2015-06-01 at 21:14 -0500, Jose Martinez wrote: Hmm, that is a little disappointing. But, I can probably run Squeeze. Nothing like stone knives and bear skins!:-) I think even squeeze would be a challenge (maybe a fun one though!) when it comes to ram and disk space. But there's always vintage operating systems for vintage computers :) I thought of DSL. But it needs an i486. :-( http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall Geoworks!! It ought to fly on a 486! Ric Apparently you have to have DOS to run GeoWorks. I see instructions for installing on DosBox, but that implies that you have a running Linux!Also, something I read on one of the sites I just looked up indicates that the video is going to be kinda crude. I will be interested in seeing if anyone follows up on this! --doug -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/556df5a2.1010...@optonline.net
Re: Old Computers
On 06/02/2015 11:07 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Tuesday 02 June 2015 14:55:51 Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Mon, 2015-06-01 at 21:14 -0500, Jose Martinez wrote: Hmm, that is a little disappointing. But, I can probably run Squeeze. Nothing like stone knives and bear skins!:-) I think even squeeze would be a challenge (maybe a fun one though!) when it comes to ram and disk space. But there's always vintage operating systems for vintage computers :) I thought of DSL. But it needs an i486. :-( http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall Geoworks!! It ought to fly on a 486! Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome. R.I.P. Dad. http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/556def69.8050...@gmail.com
Re: Old Computers
On 06/02/2015 12:41 PM, Gary Dale wrote: On 02/06/15 12:49 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Tuesday 02 June 2015 17:37:01 Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Tue, 2015-06-02 at 16:07 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: But there's always vintage operating systems for vintage computers :) I thought of DSL. But it needs an i486. :-( http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall I was thinking more along the lines of really old Debian releases, something that would be contemporary with the hardware. In view of the kernel problem, you are obviously right. But in general, I would rather use something that is security updated. So I was trying to think of other possibilities. Lisi On the other hand, the old releases were updated for all the security problems known at the time. They may well be immune to newer issues introduced after the release became unsupported and there may be few people trying attacks that haven't worked on atypical computers in over a decade. And I will probably not use these system(s) on line much if any at all. So most of the security issues will fixed or not will not really be a problem in this situation. I see I've sparked a pretty good discussion on the list. I sure appreciate all the advice/information it will come in very handy when I actually have the systems in hand. -- JM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/556e447d.9050...@gmail.com
Re: Old Computers
On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:46:17 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday 02 June 2015 16:28:30 lostson wrote: On Tue, 2015-06-02 at 16:07 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Tuesday 02 June 2015 14:55:51 Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Mon, 2015-06-01 at 21:14 -0500, Jose Martinez wrote: Hmm, that is a little disappointing. But, I can probably run Squeeze. Nothing like stone knives and bear skins!:-) I think even squeeze would be a challenge (maybe a fun one though!) when it comes to ram and disk space. But there's always vintage operating systems for vintage computers :) I thought of DSL. But it needs an i486. :-( http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall Lisi How about Tiny Core Linux http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/faq.html#req Needs i486. :-( Ah, nostalgia. I learned linux using BasicLinux, which is still around, and will apparently run on a 386: http://distro.ibiblio.org/baslinux/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BasicLinux I still remember that incredible feeling, some many years ago, when I put the floppy into a Windows box, rebooted, insmod'd the relevant ethernet driver module, brought the network up, and had an actual working networked *nix terminal ;) Lisi Celejar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150602230819.a2a119d760b48c95dfa9f...@gmail.com
Re: Old Computers
On 06/02/2015 10:08 PM, Celejar wrote: On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:46:17 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday 02 June 2015 16:28:30 lostson wrote: On Tue, 2015-06-02 at 16:07 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Tuesday 02 June 2015 14:55:51 Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Mon, 2015-06-01 at 21:14 -0500, Jose Martinez wrote: Hmm, that is a little disappointing. But, I can probably run Squeeze. Nothing like stone knives and bear skins!:-) I think even squeeze would be a challenge (maybe a fun one though!) when it comes to ram and disk space. But there's always vintage operating systems for vintage computers :) I thought of DSL. But it needs an i486. :-( http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall Lisi How about Tiny Core Linux http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/faq.html#req Needs i486. :-( Ah, nostalgia. I learned linux using BasicLinux, which is still around, and will apparently run on a 386: http://distro.ibiblio.org/baslinux/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BasicLinux I still remember that incredible feeling, some many years ago, when I put the floppy into a Windows box, rebooted, insmod'd the relevant ethernet driver module, brought the network up, and had an actual working networked *nix terminal ;) Yeah, there's nothing like making an antique useful. I remember the days of the PDP-11 running *nixWhat I wouldn't give to come up with one of those old things!! Lisi Celejar -- JM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/556e7054.2030...@gmail.com
Re: Old Computers
On 06/02/2015 08:11 PM, Jose Martinez wrote: On 06/02/2015 10:08 PM, Celejar wrote: On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:46:17 +0100 Lisi Reisz lisi.re...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday 02 June 2015 16:28:30 lostson wrote: On Tue, 2015-06-02 at 16:07 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Tuesday 02 June 2015 14:55:51 Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Mon, 2015-06-01 at 21:14 -0500, Jose Martinez wrote: Hmm, that is a little disappointing. But, I can probably run Squeeze. Nothing like stone knives and bear skins!:-) I think even squeeze would be a challenge (maybe a fun one though!) when it comes to ram and disk space. But there's always vintage operating systems for vintage computers :) I thought of DSL. But it needs an i486. :-( http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall Lisi How about Tiny Core Linux http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/faq.html#req Needs i486. :-( Ah, nostalgia. I learned linux using BasicLinux, which is still around, and will apparently run on a 386: http://distro.ibiblio.org/baslinux/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BasicLinux I still remember that incredible feeling, some many years ago, when I put the floppy into a Windows box, rebooted, insmod'd the relevant ethernet driver module, brought the network up, and had an actual working networked *nix terminal ;) Yeah, there's nothing like making an antique useful. I remember the days of the PDP-11 running *nixWhat I wouldn't give to come up with one of those old things!! Lisi Celejar My first programming class, back in 1976 was on a PDP-11. Those were the days. Bootstrap with physical toggle switches on the box to enter the binary code. Marc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/556e8687.7090...@gmail.com
Re: Old Computers
On Mon, 2015-06-01 at 21:14 -0500, Jose Martinez wrote: Hmm, that is a little disappointing. But, I can probably run Squeeze. Nothing like stone knives and bear skins!:-) I think even squeeze would be a challenge (maybe a fun one though!) when it comes to ram and disk space. But there's always vintage operating systems for vintage computers :) -- Cheers, Sven Arvidsson http://www.whiz.se PGP Key ID 6FAB5CD5 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Old Computers
On Tue, Jun 02, 2015 at 08:32:01AM +0200, Petter Adsen wrote: ... Look around and see if you can find a copy of fvwm 1.24r - I ran that for years on a 386 with little RAM without any problems. Version 2 is a little heavier, but you can compile it yourself and leave out options you don't need, like pixmap support for the titlebars etc. Petter I still use icewm as my favorite window manager (no gnome). (Though I installed xfce4, too, I hardly ever use that WM, since I don't like those tiring mouse operations as xfce4 offers but limited key handling.) Install: packages: icewm, icewm-common Drawback: you have to edit the config files in /etc/icewm/* to your taste: menu preferences programs toolbar (After this is done, your individual configuration will hardly need another touch, if you saved your altered files for system updates.) To start icewm, have /etc/xinit/xinitrc execute two commands: exec /etc/profile exec icewm-session To limit boot to text mode, disable any display manager files: xdm, gdm .. in /etc/init.d, start X via startx -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150602100248.ga5...@fok02.laje.edewe.de
Re: Old Computers
On Tuesday 02 June 2015 14:55:51 Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Mon, 2015-06-01 at 21:14 -0500, Jose Martinez wrote: Hmm, that is a little disappointing. But, I can probably run Squeeze. Nothing like stone knives and bear skins!:-) I think even squeeze would be a challenge (maybe a fun one though!) when it comes to ram and disk space. But there's always vintage operating systems for vintage computers :) I thought of DSL. But it needs an i486. :-( http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201506021607.21462.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Old Computers
On Tue, 2015-06-02 at 16:07 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Tuesday 02 June 2015 14:55:51 Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Mon, 2015-06-01 at 21:14 -0500, Jose Martinez wrote: Hmm, that is a little disappointing. But, I can probably run Squeeze. Nothing like stone knives and bear skins!:-) I think even squeeze would be a challenge (maybe a fun one though!) when it comes to ram and disk space. But there's always vintage operating systems for vintage computers :) I thought of DSL. But it needs an i486. :-( http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall Lisi How about Tiny Core Linux http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/faq.html#req LostSon signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Old Computers
On Tuesday 02 June 2015 16:28:30 lostson wrote: On Tue, 2015-06-02 at 16:07 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Tuesday 02 June 2015 14:55:51 Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Mon, 2015-06-01 at 21:14 -0500, Jose Martinez wrote: Hmm, that is a little disappointing. But, I can probably run Squeeze. Nothing like stone knives and bear skins!:-) I think even squeeze would be a challenge (maybe a fun one though!) when it comes to ram and disk space. But there's always vintage operating systems for vintage computers :) I thought of DSL. But it needs an i486. :-( http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall Lisi How about Tiny Core Linux http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/faq.html#req Needs i486. :-( Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201506021646.17481.lisi.re...@gmail.com
RE: Old Computers
From: lisi.re...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 16:46:17 +0100 On Tuesday 02 June 2015 16:28:30 lostson wrote: On Tue, 2015-06-02 at 16:07 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Tuesday 02 June 2015 14:55:51 Sven Arvidsson wrote: I thought of DSL. But it needs an i486. :-( http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall Lisi How about Tiny Core Linux http://distro.ibiblio.org/tinycorelinux/faq.html#req Needs i486. :-( The Linux kernel itself requires 486, it doesn't build for 386 anymore. IIRC it's because it uses the CMPXCHG instruction to implement locking, and that instruction isn't available on 80386. Regards, Arno
Re: Old Computers
On Tue, 2015-06-02 at 16:07 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: But there's always vintage operating systems for vintage computers :) I thought of DSL. But it needs an i486. :-( http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall I was thinking more along the lines of really old Debian releases, something that would be contemporary with the hardware. -- Cheers, Sven Arvidsson http://www.whiz.se PGP Key ID 6FAB5CD5 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Old Computers
On Tuesday 02 June 2015 17:37:01 Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Tue, 2015-06-02 at 16:07 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: But there's always vintage operating systems for vintage computers :) I thought of DSL. But it needs an i486. :-( http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall I was thinking more along the lines of really old Debian releases, something that would be contemporary with the hardware. In view of the kernel problem, you are obviously right. But in general, I would rather use something that is security updated. So I was trying to think of other possibilities. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201506021749.43875.lisi.re...@gmail.com
Re: Old Computers
On 02/06/15 12:49 PM, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Tuesday 02 June 2015 17:37:01 Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Tue, 2015-06-02 at 16:07 +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: But there's always vintage operating systems for vintage computers :) I thought of DSL. But it needs an i486. :-( http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=damnsmall I was thinking more along the lines of really old Debian releases, something that would be contemporary with the hardware. In view of the kernel problem, you are obviously right. But in general, I would rather use something that is security updated. So I was trying to think of other possibilities. Lisi On the other hand, the old releases were updated for all the security problems known at the time. They may well be immune to newer issues introduced after the release became unsupported and there may be few people trying attacks that haven't worked on atypical computers in over a decade. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/556dead2.4090...@torfree.net
Re: Old Computers
On Mon, 01 Jun 2015 23:39:15 -0400 Gary Dale garyd...@torfree.net wrote: On 01/06/15 10:10 PM, Martin Read wrote: On 02/06/15 01:56, Jose Martinez wrote: The question is, will jessie install and run on these old systems? If not, can I still get a debian distro that will? I expect that the processors on at least one of them will be at least i386 or better, so I also expect that jessie will install and run, but that my main problem will be with drivers for the legacy peripherals. https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch02s01.html.en says: However, Debian GNU/Linux jessie will not run on 486 or earlier processors. Despite the architecture name i386, support for actual 80386 and 80486 processors (and their clones) was dropped with the Sarge (r3.1) and Squeeze (r6.0) releases of Debian, respectively. The Intel Pentium and clones, including those without an FPU (Floating-Point Unit or math coprocessor), are supported. The Intel Quark is not supported, due to hardware errata. Where you will also find problems is with various distros that supposedly support Pentiums but that require PAE, which is missing from a lot of them. Another huge issue is finding a windowing system that will be lightweight enough to run in the memory older Pentium-based computers are likely to support. Look around and see if you can find a copy of fvwm 1.24r - I ran that for years on a 386 with little RAM without any problems. Version 2 is a little heavier, but you can compile it yourself and leave out options you don't need, like pixmap support for the titlebars etc. Petter -- I'm ionized Are you sure? I'm positive. pgp2FPl92cVKe.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Old Computers
On 06/01/2015 09:10 PM, Martin Read wrote: On 02/06/15 01:56, Jose Martinez wrote: The question is, will jessie install and run on these old systems? If not, can I still get a debian distro that will? I expect that the processors on at least one of them will be at least i386 or better, so I also expect that jessie will install and run, but that my main problem will be with drivers for the legacy peripherals. https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch02s01.html.en says: However, Debian GNU/Linux jessie will not run on 486 or earlier processors. Despite the architecture name i386, support for actual 80386 and 80486 processors (and their clones) was dropped with the Sarge (r3.1) and Squeeze (r6.0) releases of Debian, respectively. The Intel Pentium and clones, including those without an FPU (Floating-Point Unit or math coprocessor), are supported. The Intel Quark is not supported, due to hardware errata. Hmm, that is a little disappointing. But, I can probably run Squeeze. Nothing like stone knives and bear skins!:-) -- JM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/556d117e.7010...@gmail.com
Re: Old Computers
On 01/06/15 10:10 PM, Martin Read wrote: On 02/06/15 01:56, Jose Martinez wrote: The question is, will jessie install and run on these old systems? If not, can I still get a debian distro that will? I expect that the processors on at least one of them will be at least i386 or better, so I also expect that jessie will install and run, but that my main problem will be with drivers for the legacy peripherals. https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch02s01.html.en says: However, Debian GNU/Linux jessie will not run on 486 or earlier processors. Despite the architecture name i386, support for actual 80386 and 80486 processors (and their clones) was dropped with the Sarge (r3.1) and Squeeze (r6.0) releases of Debian, respectively. The Intel Pentium and clones, including those without an FPU (Floating-Point Unit or math coprocessor), are supported. The Intel Quark is not supported, due to hardware errata. Where you will also find problems is with various distros that supposedly support Pentiums but that require PAE, which is missing from a lot of them. Another huge issue is finding a windowing system that will be lightweight enough to run in the memory older Pentium-based computers are likely to support. Debian is good starting point but you may want to start with as minimal an install as possible and only add things as you need them. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/556d2563.5000...@torfree.net
Re: Old Computers
On 02/06/15 01:56, Jose Martinez wrote: The question is, will jessie install and run on these old systems? If not, can I still get a debian distro that will? I expect that the processors on at least one of them will be at least i386 or better, so I also expect that jessie will install and run, but that my main problem will be with drivers for the legacy peripherals. https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch02s01.html.en says: However, Debian GNU/Linux jessie will not run on 486 or earlier processors. Despite the architecture name i386, support for actual 80386 and 80486 processors (and their clones) was dropped with the Sarge (r3.1) and Squeeze (r6.0) releases of Debian, respectively. The Intel Pentium and clones, including those without an FPU (Floating-Point Unit or math coprocessor), are supported. The Intel Quark is not supported, due to hardware errata. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/556d10a9.1000...@zen.co.uk
