[Declude.JunkMail] D T Files
Messages coming into the server show up in file pairs, one starting with D and other starting with T. When the file has completely arrived, the T file turns into a Q files and the message gets delivered (somewhere in the middle, Declude works its magic). As I add more and more domains, I'm starting to notice more and more orphans. According to the Imail web site, these indicate a message was not completely uploaded. I've seen enough to corroborate this information, but this leads to a question: What do I do with all the orphans? Most are not spam, many have attachments, and the sender may or may not send another copy. I'm new to Imail, what do other email servers do when the rest of the message doesn't make it? What do etiquette (and liability) concerns dictate? Thanks Dan --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] D T Files
Every few days I sort the spool directory by date, and delete logs older than five days, and other stray files older than two or three days. Sometimes there arematching T and D files, sometimes only a D file. I alsoregularly clear the \spool\web folder of stray files, which sometimes requires stop/restart of WebMail service to remove a lock. Glenn Z. - Original Message - From: Dan Patnode To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 4:54 PM Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] D T Files Messages coming into the server show up in file pairs, one starting with D and other starting with T. When the file has completely arrived, the T file turns into a Q files and the message gets delivered (somewhere in the middle, Declude works its magic). As I add more and more domains, I'm starting to notice more and more orphans. According to the Imail web site, these indicate a message was not completely uploaded. I've seen enough to corroborate this information, but this leads to a question:What do I do with all the orphans? Most are not spam, many have attachments, and the sender may or may not send another copy. I'm new to Imail, what do other email servers do when the rest of the message doesn't make it? What do etiquette (and liability) concerns dictate?ThanksDan---[This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)]---This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. Tounsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], andtype "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be foundat http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] D T Files
Messages coming into the server show up in file pairs, one starting with D and other starting with T. When the file has completely arrived, the T file turns into a Q files and the message gets delivered (somewhere in the middle, Declude works its magic). As I add more and more domains, I'm starting to notice more and more orphans. According to the Imail web site, these indicate a message was not completely uploaded. Orphan D files or orphan T files? Orphaned T files should be quite rare (as IMail should delete them if the SMTP transaction never completes). Orphaned D files will occur occasionally as double bounces (for example, I send out an E-mail but have the wrong return address; the E-mail bounces, but IMail can't bounce the E-mail because of the invalid return address). What do I do with all the orphans? Most are not spam, many have attachments, and the sender may or may not send another copy. If they are D*.SMD files, they should be E-mails that couldn't be delivered for some reason. If they are T*.SMD files, something went wrong -- in this case, the computer that connected to IMail should have received an error response of some sort, and they should either re-try or receive a bounce message. -Scott --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] D T Files
Scott, They are nearly always is pairs: D48b89c5e1280b6c3 T48b89c5e1280b6c3 Is there an Imail setting I should check, that controls T files being deleted. I went in today and found file pairs as old as two days. Double bounces show up as file pairs with shorter names ending in .GSE. These are always spam and, and while also not self deleting, don't bother me. Thanks Dan On Wednesday, February 26, 2003 15:07, R. Scott Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Messages coming into the server show up in file pairs, one starting with D and other starting with T. When the file has completely arrived, the T file turns into a Q files and the message gets delivered (somewhere in the middle, Declude works its magic). As I add more and more domains, I'm starting to notice more and more orphans. According to the Imail web site, these indicate a message was not completely uploaded. Orphan D files or orphan T files? Orphaned T files should be quite rare (as IMail should delete them if the SMTP transaction never completes). Orphaned D files will occur occasionally as double bounces (for example, I send out an E-mail but have the wrong return address; the E-mail bounces, but IMail can't bounce the E-mail because of the invalid return address). What do I do with all the orphans? Most are not spam, many have attachments, and the sender may or may not send another copy. If they are D*.SMD files, they should be E-mails that couldn't be delivered for some reason. If they are T*.SMD files, something went wrong -- in this case, the computer that connected to IMail should have received an error response of some sort, and they should either re-try or receive a bounce message. -Scott --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] D T Files
Wednesday, February 26, 2003 you wrote: RSP If they are T*.SMD files, something went wrong -- in this case, RSP the computer that connected to IMail should have received an RSP error response of some sort, and they should either re-try or RSP receive a bounce message. you also see a lot of T files for dictionary attacks where the sender does many rcpt to's but never sends a message. Just delete em. Terry Fritts --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
[Declude.JunkMail] A Question of Ethics
I realize this is two questions in one day, but its a slow list day, so: Rather than deleting spam, I forward it tagged or to a shared mailbox, clients choice. I just found out that within a week of starting my my anti spam service (delivery choice 2), a company fired an employee for receiving tons of porn via email. They also have web monitoring in place so this was the last piece to their puzzle, but... How does everyone feel about our role playing Big Brother against employees? Dan --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] A Question of Ethics
1. We are providing the data as a necessary service - the decisions about how that data is applied are out of our hands. I would hope that they would be used in an enlightened way, and in our shop we do that - however the discretion and the definition of enlightened is up to the ultimate owner (see 2) of those facilities. 2. In corporate and similar environments, the facilities provided to employees are entirely under the domain of the owners (== those paying the bills) and therefore they are entitled to monitor anything about those facilities and how they are used. My $0.02 _M ]-Original Message- ]From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dan Patnode ]Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:20 PM ]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] A Question of Ethics ] ] ]I realize this is two questions in one day, but its a slow list day, so: ] ]Rather than deleting spam, I forward it tagged or to a shared ]mailbox, clients choice. I just found out that within a week of ]starting my my anti spam service (delivery choice 2), a company ]fired an employee for receiving tons of porn via email. They also ]have web monitoring in place so this was the last piece to their ]puzzle, but... ] ]How does everyone feel about our role playing Big Brother against ]employees? ] ] ]Dan ] ] ]--- ][This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] A Question of Ethics
Dan, Wednesday, February 26, 2003 you wrote: DP I just found out that within a week of starting my my anti spam DP service (delivery choice 2), a company fired an employee for DP receiving tons of porn via email. I suppose somehow they knew he subscribed to it. Otherwise someone just receiving a lot of porn wouldn't be much reason for dismissal. I bet more than 50% of our spam is porn - and if anything I'd say it was growing. I'd say if they fired him for just receiving porn then they better be prepared for a lawsuit. I bet he wishes you had had been deleting it - whether he was innocent or not. DP How does everyone feel about our role playing Big Brother against DP employees? However, firing someone for subscribing to porn and spending company time viewing porn on line seems pretty reasonable to me. After all, theft of time is still theft - might even be worse than stealing money. If I had something to do with getting rid of some sorry so and so that was doing stuff like that to his employer I'd feel pretty good about it. Terry Fritts --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re[2]: [Declude.JunkMail] A Question of Ethics
I'd say if they fired him for just receiving porn then they better be prepared for a lawsuit. If I had something to do with getting rid of some sorry so and so that was doing stuff like that to his employer I'd feel pretty good about it. My thoughts are completely in line with Terry's. There is no question of your complicity in the gentleman's firing if you are comfortable that the employer *knew* the offending messages to *not* be spam, and thus out of your purvue completely. If, however, you feel that, acting as a spam expert, you did not adequately represent the extremely high likelihood that pornographic e-mail is unsolicited, or, even worse, gave the reverse impression (i.e., that your filtering service--impossibly!--only allows through porn that was desired by the end user, deleting everything else on arrival), you should try to remedy this misunderstanding immediately. As an immediate band-aid, you may wish to release an updated end user agreement that highlights this area, without revealing your direct motivation. I would feel horrible knowing I'd inadvertently helped to frame someone, whether due to ignorance or corruption on the part of their boss; in fact, I would ready myself to defend the individual in court, and lose the client. You have to go deeper on this: it's a question of why/whether this has anything to do with you positively or negatively, since you provide anti-spam software--not employee monitoring/spyware, which is in a sense its direct opposite. -Sandy Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist Broadleaf Systems, a division of Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
DSN:Re: Re[2]: [Declude.JunkMail] A Question of Ethics
I seldom comment on this list, but this is something I know a little about. We have published security software since 1990 and our most popular product, CYBERsitter, since 1996. With over 2.5m users, we have seen it all. Because it records all browsing activity, there are many cases where we have been called upon to interpret the activity. I personally know of several dozen cases where divorces were contemplated, employee terminations took place, even people who were sent back to prison for parole violations due directly to our software. Of course that isn't even the tip of the iceberg compared to all the kids who have been grounded for doing nasty things they shouldn't ;) We have had more than our share of controversy. Our policy regarding our responsibility has remained the same throughout and has proven to be the appropriate one I believe. Our software is a tool. The user purchases this tool to perform a specific function. We try to provide as much information as we can about how to use the tool. Once the user installs our software, what they do with the data is up to them. All we can do is to provide the tool by which to gather the data, and to present it in a readable, factual way. It has been my experience, that when a drastic measure is contemplated, a wife divorcing her husband for a porn problem, an employer terminating an employee, or whatever, the software is generally used to confirm and/or validate something they already know. Our policy is to make ourselves available to help people analyze the data we provide, and to give them an honest interpretation of what we feel is taking place. I have personally confirmed peoples suspicions, and also was able to explain suspected activity as accidental or unsolicited. I was contacted one time by a district attorney from Pittsburg. An employee of a company was arrested and in jail for uploading a propriatory customer database to some other location. They faxed me 20 pages of logs, and after analyzing them I discovered that the logs had been altered. It turned out the employer had insured his data for $400,000 and had set the employee up. The employee was released later that day and the employer (our customer) was arrested. Personally, I feel that the ethics question here is whose ethics will we use. Just the fact that this question is being discussed here is proof positive to me that we as a group do care about how the data we provide our users is used. The best we can do is to make it as accurate as possible, and be available to help those who need a professional opinion. Contrast this to companies that provide no rationale whatsoever for their judgements like some RBL providers, or companies that provide spam/porn protection but aren't there to spend the time with you when you have a question. To many companies ethics is spelled ethic$. Hopefully we as a group are not among them. I am willing to bet that the employee in question was not fired solely based on information provided by an anti-spam program. They employer probably had complaints, suspicions, or other reasons that were taken in to account. It is quite possible he just needed the evidence. On 02/26/03 10:14pm you wrote... I'd say if they fired him for just receiving porn then they better be prepared for a lawsuit. If I had something to do with getting rid of some sorry so and so that was doing stuff like that to his employer I'd feel pretty good about it. My thoughts are completely in line with Terry's. There is no question of your complicity in the gentleman's firing if you are comfortable that the employer *knew* the offending messages to *not* be spam, and thus out of your purvue completely. If, however, you feel that, acting as a spam expert, you did not adequately represent the extremely high likelihood that pornographic e-mail is unsolicited, or, even worse, gave the reverse impression (i.e., that your filtering service--impossibly!--only allows through porn that was desired by the end user, deleting everything else on arrival), you should try to remedy this misunderstanding immediately. As an immediate band-aid, you may wish to release an updated end user agreement that highlights this area, without revealing your direct motivation. I would feel horrible knowing I'd inadvertently helped to frame someone, whether due to ignorance or corruption on the part of their boss; in fact, I would ready myself to defend the individual in court, and lose the client. You have to go deeper on this: it's a question of why/whether this has anything to do with you positively or negatively, since you provide anti-spam software--not employee monitoring/spyware, which is in a sense its direct opposite. -Sandy Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist Broadleaf Systems, a division of Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- [This
Re[2]: DSN:Re: Re[2]: [Declude.JunkMail] A Question of Ethics
This is incorrect. We do not make spyware. That is not the purpose and never has been. We make content management software. It can log activity or not. The vast majority of our customers do not maintain logs at all. I'll trust you on that, and apologize for the roundhouse classification. Yet in your several dozen cases where divorces were contemplated, employee terminations took place, even people who were sent back to prison and kids who have been grounded examples, clearly your tool was used as spyware. And these are the cases which you brought under discussion. Declude by design, is a TOOL. The user can make it behave any way they want to. I do not agree. No matter how hard you try, you cannot make Declude alone distinguish between unsolicited porn and solicited porn. Yes, you can *not care* about which is which, but you cannot tell for sure. Who said they had to be suspected spam? Who said? Dan said! His very concern is that held spam is being used to incriminate a user. Our question is how/why/whether Declude is being used as an agent in his dismissal. We have received hundreds on inquiries about blocking adult material whether it is spam or not. Whether it is spam or not is not a reasonable foundation for employee termination, which is, again, the topic under discussion--not the ways and means of blocking porn in general. This is a hot segment of the market right now. A lot of spam is tolerated. Porn is not. Porn pix, movies, and e-mail can each create grounds for sexual harrassment lawsuits, whether viewed/downloaded purposely or accidentally, so of course this market remains hot. Incoming porn e-mail does not itself constitute purpose. I believe the best medicine for avoiding both employee time-wasting and a hostile workplace is preventative technology, as CyberSitter or other content filtering tools provide, combined with people management, including both frank discussion of company policies and the creation of a stress-aware workplace in which people make human contact, take breaks, start new projects, whatever, instead of relying on their prurient interests to get them through the day. Suddenly dismissing an employee to deflect attention from your previous lack of filtering and person-to-person management skills is disingenuous; termination without warning may itself be questionable in court. What they may be evidence of is violation of company policies. Information that may or may not be evidentiary...is not. They may be unsolicited, may be not. Doesn't matter whether the guy has a porn habit or not. If he is receiving inappropriate material, and if the employer has good reason that some of it is not unsolicited as you claim it all must be... An employee at will can be fired without cause, which is often the safe way out that employers take. But if an employer goes on the record as saying that a termination occured because of a violation of a company policy, this claim must be backed not with suspicion, but with legally valid evidence. In this case, like I said, if the employer's good reason comes from hard monitoring and red-handed evidence, then that evidence is all you need; incoming e-mail is essentially a red herring. the employer is perfectly within his rights, and possibility even obligated to fire the guy. The employer is only within his rights if his evidence is solid, and trapped spam is not solid. Fire away, and then get ready to settle the lawsuit. The question remains: are they actually going to cite porn spam, even a seeming ton, as evidence in court, or have they followed this guy's tracks enough elsewhere to not worry about that easily challenged tactic? Hey, maybe this guy was really a baddie. We don't know. I do know that there are plenty of protected executives who surf porn all day and don't get canned, while people lower on the totem pole at the same companies can get warned for a single infraction. I've personally known an employee fired for being overweight (framed as a productivity issue: lawsuit settled out of court) and one for not putting her hair in a ponytail (framed as insubordination, though without any company policy whatsoever: also settled out of court). After much wrangling, I convinced a client not to terminate the Internet access of an employee who demonstrated to me that an otherwise legit CAD/CAM tutorial site was supporting itself through soft-core popup ads (think auto mechanics' calendars). So I'm likely to keep my mind open to the employer's need to have a defensible case. -Sandy Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist Broadleaf Systems, a division of Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
