Re: [OT] Mac OS X and Java development
On May 9, 2008, at 05:35, Joerg Heinicke wrote: On 08.05.2008 05:39, Lally Singh wrote: What missing Java sources? They are in /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/1.5.0/Home/ src.jar Hmm, not for me. Directory exists, but no src.jar inside. So where to get it from? Came preinstalled on my mac. Did you install the dev tools? No dev tools. Are they only available for Leopard? No ...I also had them on Tiger. I'm still on Tiger - and would rather switch to Linux than spending money for Leopard ;) Oh boy. Just the time searching and fiddling around with alternative approaches may be more expensive. But whatever rocks your boat. Huh, I didn't realize people still run such older versions of MacOS. Tiger? Leopard is only out since 1/2 year, so what ... And I'm not willing to pay for it. Java 6 is the first time apple's drug their feet for any real amt of time like this. Java 5 was a few weeks after the general release, but nothing like this. Why a completely separated version after all? I can see the point of a native lookfeel, but beyond that ... With all due respect guys ...this getting way beyond OT for this list. It's really that simple. If you think about java6 on OSX... ...shell out the 100 bucks for leopard (if you got a 64-bit Intel machine) ...use the freebsd port if you don't need a UI ...stay on java5 ...or install linux It's really that simple. cheers -- Torsten
Re: [OT] Mac OS X and Java development
Just chiming in. Came preinstalled on my mac. Did you install the dev tools? No dev tools. Are they only available for Leopard? I'm still on Tiger - and would rather switch to Linux than spending money for Leopard ;) All versions of Mac OS X (at least from Panther or Tiger) come with dev tools on the installation CD/DVD. Just pop in the installation disk and select the developer tools. That's probably personal taste. I can do lots of stuff faster with just the keyboard. LOL the ability to do much more with just the keyboard is one of the strong arguments for me to switch to OS X. ;-) But not in Eclipse ;) Anyways, I don't want to get started with letters for cursor navigation. Eclipse, jEdit and many other developer tools are more or less platform independent and therefore by definition not mac-native. Using Windows you're used to having a diversion in keybindings and GUI-interface layout, but Mac apps are much more consistent, so the exception to the rule stands out more prominently. The reason Mac apps are more consistent is the fact that a larger part of the underlying frameworks are available to the developers. This also results in applications that are much smaller. Huh, I didn't realize people still run such older versions of MacOS. Tiger? Leopard is only out since 1/2 year, so what ... And I'm not willing to pay for it. I agree. 'Older versions' should refer to pre-Tiger versions. I truly think some people are on those, but the majority has moved to Tiger or Leopard by now. From what I read Tiger is considered a very stable, very mature version, while Leopard seems to be a kind of 'infant of the new generation'. It does provide new and interesting functionality, but it also introduces problems that will probably be solved in the next updates/versions. Why a completely separated version after all? I can see the point of a native lookfeel, but beyond that ... It's not a completely separated version. AFAIK it's repackaged to fit in Apple's idea of how to layout the frameworks. At least it's set up in a way that changing versions is really simple. And yes, sometimes it would be better if Apple didn't force their ideas on the users so much. Bye, Helma
Re: [OT] Mac OS X and Java development
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Joerg Heinicke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Actually the consistency is what I love the most:
Emacs keybindings (Ctrl-{A,E,P,N,K,Y, etc}) work *everywhere*, even
the single-line textfields like the search box in web browsers.
But not in Eclipse ;) Anyways, I don't want to get started with letters for
cursor navigation.
You do know that there's an EMACs plugin for Eclipse?
--
Peter Hunsberger
Re: [OT] Mac OS X and Java development
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 1:10 AM, Joerg Heinicke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Whenever I start this I get annoyed very fast. The missing Java sources
are only the tip of the iceberg.
What missing Java sources? They are in
/System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/1.5.0/Home/src.jar
Hmm, not for me. Directory exists, but no src.jar inside. So where to get
it from?
Came preinstalled on my mac. Did you install the dev tools?
Every tree representation in Eclipse just sucks.
What sucks? The missing vertical lines? It means a bit more indentation,
but less visual clutter. And my Mighty Mouse's scroll ball does magic to
navigate in all directions :-)
I have a Logitech MX Revolution, so sidewards scrolling isn't a problem.
But try keyboard navigation. You are on the 100th child and hit left key. I
now expect to jump to the parent and on the next hit on left to close the
parent.
VX Revo here. There's no way in hell I'm traversing a tree with a
keyboard. I have a mouse, a good one, and it does everything I want
faster than any keyboard.
I dumped eclipse a while back for being too broken/buggy for my
tastes. But, when I was using it, I just abbreviated the names in
package explorer. No problems after that.
Frankly the Mighty Mouse drives me crazy. Tried it once, almost threw
it against the wall.
Keyboard navigation in Mac OS X is completely inconsistent, especially
with Java programs.
Uh? What is consistency besides the usual cut/copy/paste?
What about Ctrl/Alt/Shift + Left/Right/Up/Down/Page Up/Page Down/Home/End?
I use these key combinations very heavily in Windows - and try to use
similar cominations in Mac OS X, but pretty much every program has its own
combinations. Notebook keyboard with fn seems to complicate it even more.
Especially annoying in Eclipse fn+Left (which should be Home) jumps to first
position in file.
Actually the consistency is what I love the most:
Emacs keybindings (Ctrl-{A,E,P,N,K,Y, etc}) work *everywhere*, even
the single-line textfields like the search box in web browsers.
Command-left,right,up,down move to the beginning end of the line
or document. Same global consistency.
Option left-right move between words. Option up/down goes up/down a
page. Again, consistent.
These are the same in almost every program I've used so far. Every
*other* platform drives me crazy now.
The only time I ever hit the Fn keys are for page up/down in some
programs that don't do Option-* (e.g. bash, which traps those keys,
but can't use them properly), and if I want to use the function keys.
Most mac apps bind menu options to the command key and a letter,
making the function keys useful only for UI functions (e.g. exposé,
spaces) or apps ported from other platforms.
Sorry it's not identical to windows, which was copied by linux, but it
*is* better.
There seems to be no serious SVN command line client (or at least the
CollabNet download page is just self-linking at the moment:
http://downloads.open.collab.net/binaries.html).
Install macports and just run sudo port install subversion
Found http://www.wikihow.com/Install-Subversion-on-Mac-OS-X and from there
http://www.codingmonkeys.de/mbo/. So at least one problem solved.
Huh, I didn't realize people still run such older versions of MacOS.
Leopard has tools like svn, ant, mvn, ruby, python, etc installed by
default with the devtools. Only reason I got macports last time was
to install wireshark.
And so on ... Windows has also bunch of annoying issues but there is at
least consistency and usually there is a solution for everything. Do you
guys all switch to Linux when it comes to Java development? :)
Nh. I'm very happy with my Mac :-)
If I could just say the same ;)
Java 6 is the first time apple's drug their feet for any real amt of
time like this. Java 5 was a few weeks after the general release, but
nothing like this. Looks like they're strained for devs between Mac
OS X and the iPhone.
Again, did you install the dev tools off the Leopard DVD?
--
H. Lally Singh
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer Science
Virginia Tech
Re: [OT] Mac OS X and Java development
On 08.05.2008 05:39, Lally Singh wrote:
What missing Java sources? They are in
/System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/1.5.0/Home/src.jar
Hmm, not for me. Directory exists, but no src.jar inside. So where to get
it from?
Came preinstalled on my mac. Did you install the dev tools?
No dev tools. Are they only available for Leopard? I'm still on Tiger -
and would rather switch to Linux than spending money for Leopard ;)
There's no way in hell I'm traversing a tree with a
keyboard. I have a mouse, a good one, and it does everything I want
faster than any keyboard.
That's probably personal taste. I can do lots of stuff faster with just
the keyboard.
Keyboard navigation in Mac OS X is completely inconsistent, especially
with Java programs.
Uh? What is consistency besides the usual cut/copy/paste?
What about Ctrl/Alt/Shift + Left/Right/Up/Down/Page Up/Page Down/Home/End?
I use these key combinations very heavily in Windows - and try to use
similar cominations in Mac OS X, but pretty much every program has its own
combinations. Notebook keyboard with fn seems to complicate it even more.
Especially annoying in Eclipse fn+Left (which should be Home) jumps to first
position in file.
Actually the consistency is what I love the most:
Emacs keybindings (Ctrl-{A,E,P,N,K,Y, etc}) work *everywhere*, even
the single-line textfields like the search box in web browsers.
But not in Eclipse ;) Anyways, I don't want to get started with letters
for cursor navigation.
Command-left,right,up,down move to the beginning end of the line
or document. Same global consistency.
Not in jEdit. Also fn+left jumps to beginning of document - with cursor
in Eclipse, without moving cursor (just scrolling) in SeaMonkey.
Option left-right move between words. Option up/down goes up/down a
page. Again, consistent.
Not at all in jEdit. Option+up/down moves lines in Eclipse.
Sorry it's not identical to windows, which was copied by linux, but it
*is* better.
Can't agree.
Huh, I didn't realize people still run such older versions of MacOS.
Tiger? Leopard is only out since 1/2 year, so what ... And I'm not
willing to pay for it.
Java 6 is the first time apple's drug their feet for any real amt of
time like this. Java 5 was a few weeks after the general release, but
nothing like this.
Why a completely separated version after all? I can see the point of a
native lookfeel, but beyond that ...
Joerg
Re: [OT] Mac OS X and Java development
On 04.04.2008 11:33, Sylvain Wallez wrote: With Mac OS X I also have no access to the source code of the JDK. Which makes me wonder again how to do serious Java development with Mac OS X. I know a few of you guys are using Mac OS X. How do you do it? Er... without any problem, and I nothing would make me swith back to Windoze :-) Whenever I start this I get annoyed very fast. The missing Java sources are only the tip of the iceberg. What missing Java sources? They are in /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/1.5.0/Home/src.jar Hmm, not for me. Directory exists, but no src.jar inside. So where to get it from? Every tree representation in Eclipse just sucks. What sucks? The missing vertical lines? It means a bit more indentation, but less visual clutter. And my Mighty Mouse's scroll ball does magic to navigate in all directions :-) I have a Logitech MX Revolution, so sidewards scrolling isn't a problem. But try keyboard navigation. You are on the 100th child and hit left key. I now expect to jump to the parent and on the next hit on left to close the parent. Keyboard navigation in Mac OS X is completely inconsistent, especially with Java programs. Uh? What is consistency besides the usual cut/copy/paste? What about Ctrl/Alt/Shift + Left/Right/Up/Down/Page Up/Page Down/Home/End? I use these key combinations very heavily in Windows - and try to use similar cominations in Mac OS X, but pretty much every program has its own combinations. Notebook keyboard with fn seems to complicate it even more. Especially annoying in Eclipse fn+Left (which should be Home) jumps to first position in file. There seems to be no serious SVN command line client (or at least the CollabNet download page is just self-linking at the moment: http://downloads.open.collab.net/binaries.html). Install macports and just run sudo port install subversion Found http://www.wikihow.com/Install-Subversion-on-Mac-OS-X and from there http://www.codingmonkeys.de/mbo/. So at least one problem solved. And so on ... Windows has also bunch of annoying issues but there is at least consistency and usually there is a solution for everything. Do you guys all switch to Linux when it comes to Java development? :) Nh. I'm very happy with my Mac :-) If I could just say the same ;) Joerg
Re: [OT] Mac OS X and Java development
On Apr 4, 2008, at 11:33 AM, Sylvain Wallez wrote: Joerg Heinicke wrote: On 03.04.2008 23:33, Jörg Heinicke (JIRA) wrote: Every tree representation in Eclipse just sucks. Shrug. Never was much of a fun of Eclipse myself... There seems to be no serious SVN command line client (or at least the CollabNet download page is just self-linking at the moment: http://downloads.open.collab.net/binaries.html) . Install macports and just run sudo port install subversion Starting from Leopard there is no need... ~ $ which svn /usr/bin/svn ~ $ svn --version svn, version 1.4.4 (r25188) compiled Sep 23 2007, 22:32:34 Vadim
Re: [OT] Mac OS X and Java development
Joerg Heinicke escribió: Do you guys all switch to Linux when it comes to Java development? :) Yup! :) Best Regards, Antonio Gallardo
Re: [OT] Mac OS X and Java development
Joerg Heinicke schrieb: On 03.04.2008 23:33, Jörg Heinicke (JIRA) wrote: With Mac OS X I also have no access to the source code of the JDK. Which makes me wonder again how to do serious Java development with Mac OS X. I know a few of you guys are using Mac OS X. How do you do it? Today I have faced the first real barrier: I had to convert a PKCS12 keystore to JKS, which is only possible with JDK 6 (AFAIK), so I had to use a Windows machine for this task :( -- Andreas Whenever I start this I get annoyed very fast. The missing Java sources are only the tip of the iceberg. Every tree representation in Eclipse just sucks. Keyboard navigation in Mac OS X is completely inconsistent, especially with Java programs. There seems to be no serious SVN command line client (or at least the CollabNet download page is just self-linking at the moment: http://downloads.open.collab.net/binaries.html). And so on ... Windows has also bunch of annoying issues but there is at least consistency and usually there is a solution for everything. Do you guys all switch to Linux when it comes to Java development? :) Joerg -- Andreas Hartmann, CTO BeCompany GmbH http://www.becompany.ch Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
Re: [OT] Mac OS X and Java development
hi, with a jetty-class i did it don't know - i'm sure there are better solutions java -version java version 1.5.0_13 Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.5.0_13- b05-237) Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.5.0_13-119, mixed mode, sharing) (on a mac) openssl pkcs12 -export -in my.crt -inkey my.key -out my.p12 keytool -storetype pkcs12 -list -v -keystore my.p12 -storepass pass openssl pkcs12 -info -in my.p12 java -classpath /local/mvn/repo/org/mortbay/jetty/jetty/6.1.4/ jetty-6.1.4.jar org.mortbay.jetty.security.PKCS12Import my.p12 my.jks keytool -list -v -keystore my.jks -storepass pass On Apr 8, 2008, at 24:54 , Andreas Hartmann wrote: Joerg Heinicke schrieb: On 03.04.2008 23:33, Jörg Heinicke (JIRA) wrote: With Mac OS X I also have no access to the source code of the JDK. Which makes me wonder again how to do serious Java development with Mac OS X. I know a few of you guys are using Mac OS X. How do you do it? Today I have faced the first real barrier: I had to convert a PKCS12 keystore to JKS, which is only possible with JDK 6 (AFAIK), so I had to use a Windows machine for this task :( -- Andreas Whenever I start this I get annoyed very fast. The missing Java sources are only the tip of the iceberg. Every tree representation in Eclipse just sucks. Keyboard navigation in Mac OS X is completely inconsistent, especially with Java programs. There seems to be no serious SVN command line client (or at least the CollabNet download page is just self-linking at the moment: http://downloads.open.collab.net/binaries.html) . And so on ... Windows has also bunch of annoying issues but there is at least consistency and usually there is a solution for everything. Do you guys all switch to Linux when it comes to Java development? :) Joerg -- Andreas Hartmann, CTO BeCompany GmbH http://www.becompany.ch Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01 smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
Re: [OT] Mac OS X and Java development
Have you tried Java 6 at http://developer.apple.com/java/ On 7-Apr-08, at 4:05 PM, Tom Wagner wrote: hi, with a jetty-class i did it don't know - i'm sure there are better solutions java -version java version 1.5.0_13 Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.5.0_13- b05-237) Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.5.0_13-119, mixed mode, sharing) (on a mac) openssl pkcs12 -export -in my.crt -inkey my.key -out my.p12 keytool -storetype pkcs12 -list -v -keystore my.p12 -storepass pass openssl pkcs12 -info -in my.p12 java -classpath /local/mvn/repo/org/mortbay/jetty/jetty/6.1.4/ jetty-6.1.4.jar org.mortbay.jetty.security.PKCS12Import my.p12 my.jks keytool -list -v -keystore my.jks -storepass pass On Apr 8, 2008, at 24:54 , Andreas Hartmann wrote: Joerg Heinicke schrieb: On 03.04.2008 23:33, Jörg Heinicke (JIRA) wrote: With Mac OS X I also have no access to the source code of the JDK. Which makes me wonder again how to do serious Java development with Mac OS X. I know a few of you guys are using Mac OS X. How do you do it? Today I have faced the first real barrier: I had to convert a PKCS12 keystore to JKS, which is only possible with JDK 6 (AFAIK), so I had to use a Windows machine for this task :( -- Andreas Whenever I start this I get annoyed very fast. The missing Java sources are only the tip of the iceberg. Every tree representation in Eclipse just sucks. Keyboard navigation in Mac OS X is completely inconsistent, especially with Java programs. There seems to be no serious SVN command line client (or at least the CollabNet download page is just self-linking at the moment: http://downloads.open.collab.net/binaries.html) . And so on ... Windows has also bunch of annoying issues but there is at least consistency and usually there is a solution for everything. Do you guys all switch to Linux when it comes to Java development? :) Joerg -- Andreas Hartmann, CTO BeCompany GmbH http://www.becompany.ch Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
Re: [OT] Mac OS X and Java development (was: Re: [jira] Updated: (COCOON-2063))
Hey, 2008/4/4 Joerg Heinicke [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Which makes me wonder again how to do serious Java development with Mac OS X. I know a few of you guys are using Mac OS X. How do you do it? Whenever I start this I get annoyed very fast. The missing Java sources are only the tip of the iceberg. Every tree representation in Eclipse just sucks. Keyboard navigation in Mac OS X is completely inconsistent, especially with Java programs. There seems to be no serious SVN command line client (or at least the CollabNet download page is just self-linking at the moment: http://downloads.open.collab.net/binaries.html). And so on ... Windows has also bunch of annoying issues but there is at least consistency and usually there is a solution for everything. Do you guys all switch to Linux when it comes to Java development? :) Nah, we all run windows on our macs, of course ;-) Seriously though, you get used to the inconsistencies of keyboard bindings. In fairness, eclipse on mac goes some way toward Mac-ness (try Apple-, for preferences). SVN ships with OS X and I've never had a problem with it (though a mature GUI svn client like tortoisesvn would be nice sometimes). Andrew.
Re: [OT] Mac OS X and Java development
Joerg Heinicke schrieb: On 03.04.2008 23:33, Jörg Heinicke (JIRA) wrote: With Mac OS X I also have no access to the source code of the JDK. Which makes me wonder again how to do serious Java development with Mac OS X. I know a few of you guys are using Mac OS X. How do you do it? I switched from Windows to Mac 4 years ago, and the only things I'm missing are Half-Life and Strikeforce :) The time I used to spend on installing ZoneAlarm Co. is now happily spent on keyboard shortcut configuration in Eclipse. Whenever I start this I get annoyed very fast. The missing Java sources are only the tip of the iceberg. Every tree representation in Eclipse just sucks. The indentation is a bit wide, and the horizontal scrolling is annoying, but maybe that's why Apple has invented the mighty mouse (which I, alas, do not possess) :) Keyboard navigation in Mac OS X is completely inconsistent, especially with Java programs. There seems to be no serious SVN command line client (or at least the CollabNet download page is just self-linking at the moment: http://downloads.open.collab.net/binaries.html). I use the Metissian subversion client, and I didn't notice any problems yet. Speaking of which: Windows doesn't have a serious command-line at all, or has this changed with Vista? cygwin doesn't come close to a native Unix IMO. And so on ... Windows has also bunch of annoying issues but there is at least consistency and usually there is a solution for everything. Do you guys all switch to Linux when it comes to Java development? :) IMO the situation with Java is quite acceptable. Porting shell scripts from a Linux environment is a PITA, though. -- Andreas -- Andreas Hartmann, CTO BeCompany GmbH http://www.becompany.ch Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
Re: [OT] Mac OS X and Java development
Joerg Heinicke wrote: On 03.04.2008 23:33, Jörg Heinicke (JIRA) wrote: With Mac OS X I also have no access to the source code of the JDK. Which makes me wonder again how to do serious Java development with Mac OS X. I know a few of you guys are using Mac OS X. How do you do it? Er... without any problem, and I nothing would make me swith back to Windoze :-) Whenever I start this I get annoyed very fast. The missing Java sources are only the tip of the iceberg. What missing Java sources? They are in /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions/1.5.0/Home/src.jar Every tree representation in Eclipse just sucks. What sucks? The missing vertical lines? It means a bit more indentation, but less visual clutter. And my Mighty Mouse's scroll ball does magic to navigate in all directions :-) Keyboard navigation in Mac OS X is completely inconsistent, especially with Java programs. Uh? What is consistency besides the usual cut/copy/paste? Note that I don't use anything else than a Mac, so maybe I'm just used to the Mac's own consistency :-) There seems to be no serious SVN command line client (or at least the CollabNet download page is just self-linking at the moment: http://downloads.open.collab.net/binaries.html). Install macports and just run sudo port install subversion And so on ... Windows has also bunch of annoying issues but there is at least consistency and usually there is a solution for everything. Do you guys all switch to Linux when it comes to Java development? :) Nh. I'm very happy with my Mac :-) Sylvain -- Sylvain Wallez - http://bluxte.net
[OT] Mac OS X and Java development (was: Re: [jira] Updated: (COCOON-2063))
On 03.04.2008 23:33, Jörg Heinicke (JIRA) wrote: With Mac OS X I also have no access to the source code of the JDK. Which makes me wonder again how to do serious Java development with Mac OS X. I know a few of you guys are using Mac OS X. How do you do it? Whenever I start this I get annoyed very fast. The missing Java sources are only the tip of the iceberg. Every tree representation in Eclipse just sucks. Keyboard navigation in Mac OS X is completely inconsistent, especially with Java programs. There seems to be no serious SVN command line client (or at least the CollabNet download page is just self-linking at the moment: http://downloads.open.collab.net/binaries.html). And so on ... Windows has also bunch of annoying issues but there is at least consistency and usually there is a solution for everything. Do you guys all switch to Linux when it comes to Java development? :) Joerg
