[dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community (an about to be orphaned wiki page)
Doesn't: Category:Distribution-Specific_Build_Instructions need to be be referenced from Development/OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building_on_Linux (or from where that page gets moved to). It points to Ubuntu 8.10 info so can not be too ancient. Terrence - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community (an about to be orphaned wiki page)
Hi Terrenace, Terrence Miller skrev: Doesn't: Category:Distribution-Specific_Build_Instructions need to be be referenced from Development/OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building_on_Linux You are right, these should be referenced. Some contain a fairly good amount of information, so I wouldn't include this content in the build instructions. If you wish, please go ahead and make these changes. Per - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi Per, On Wednesday, 2009-07-15 17:54:12 +0200, Per Eriksson wrote: I have created the guide here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Development/OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide Great initiative! And these are the page created so far: OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Introduction OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Getting the source OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Basic Concepts OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Build Requirements OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Windows Build Requirements OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Mac OS X Build Requirements OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Linux Build Requirements OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Solaris Build Requirements May I suggest to remove the OpenOffice.org_ part from the subpage path? Everyone reading a page knows that it's about building OOo, and we already have openoffice.org in the domain part of the URL. I would further suggest to strip the Development hierarchy and make Building_Guide the top level hierarchy, so that would be http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_Guide that IMHO makes it much nicer to read and remember. Btw, I'm not a native English speaker, but something tells me it should be Build_Guide instead, or am I wrong on that? http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_Guide and we shortened URL by 30 characters :-) Eike -- OOo/SO Calc core developer. Number formatter stricken i18n transpositionizer. SunSign 0x87F8D412 : 2F58 5236 DB02 F335 8304 7D6C 65C9 F9B5 87F8 D412 OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS Please don't send personal mail to the e...@sun.com account, which I use for mailing lists only and don't read from outside Sun. Use er...@sun.com Thanks. pgpUdt0WrqVMx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Christian Lohmaier skrev: Hi Marcin, *, 2009/7/16 Marcin Miłkowski milek...@o2.pl: Christian Lohmaier pisze: I still disagree. Basically /all/ of the questions asken on IRC about building OOo were because people are unable to read configure or because they don't use vanilla build system. Most of those didn't bother to read any instructions, didn't look for instructions. I could reply that probably using IRC is eating their brains ;) as most questions asked at dev seem to be quite different. Those questions will not be answered by a building OOo for newbies guide. The one I remember fall into the not using vanilla OOo/not taking advice given category. /../ To get this straight: I'm /not/ against consolidating the pages, au contraire, I support getting rid of old pages. But: I am against yet another place (instead of reusing the existing pages) I am against the structure as it appears now I doubt that the new documentation will cause less questions. I'm speaking for myself only, and of course don't tell anybody to stop with the efforts. This documentation will replace the current wiki pages, including the build guides at tools. So you will find a less number of pages than before. Per - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
[dev] Re: [documentation-dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi Per, IMO this is a great and valuable job. A very big + from my side :-) Cor Per Eriksson wrote (15-7-2009 11:09) Hello, I am cross-posting this to dev and documentation, but think that best would be if discussions run on dev, as many of the details probably will be discussed there. As a part of the Simplifying entry for new developers [1] effort I have the idea of collecting all the wiki pages about building the software into a building guide, as the developer guide [2]. I have discussed with several people about including it into the developer guide, but the answer was always that the developer guide would get too big. I therefore see building as an own process or part. Having a building guide would simplify and make it easier for new developers to find articles and getting to the right pages faster by providing the navigation as in the developer guide. This work would be done by sorting, consolidating and editing the various wiki pages into a guide with a structure. In this work various negative comments about building OpenOffice.org being impossible in the articles will be replaced by constructive tips for the developer. If you think this is a good idea, I will start a new small effort for this in the wiki. [1] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Development/Simplifying_entry_for_new_developers#Building_the_software [2] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/DevGuide/OpenOffice.org_Developers_Guide Per -- Cor Nouws - nl.OpenOffice.org marketing contact Ontwikkelaar? Join! http://council.openoffice.org/developers.html Gevoel niet vrij te zijn? Zie www.nieuwsteversie.nl - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hello Regina, Regina Henschel skrev: Hi Per, Per Eriksson schrieb: I have created the guide here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Development/OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide And these are the page created so far: OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Introduction OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Getting the source OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Basic Concepts OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Build Requirements OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Windows Build Requirements OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Mac OS X Build Requirements OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Linux Build Requirements OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Solaris Build Requirements Now to the articles that describe the building for the various platforms. I have read through the existing documentation, and come up with the following headlines. Do anyone feel it should look differently? OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Windows with Cygwin OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Windows with Visual Studio OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Mac OS X OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Linux OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Solaris I would like it more, to have the Requirements in the same chapter as Building. That means main chapters for the OS and then subchapters as needed. Otherwise I would again have to collect the information that are relevant for my OS. On the other hand, I do not know whether a subchapter Requirements is really needed. During the guide [1] you are told, which things are needed and -more important- what you have to consider when installing it or copying to the right place. You're right that they cause too many pages, we don't want to have the situation we have today. I plan to move the requirements for each specific platform soon. You have the two chapters Windows with Cygwin and Windows with Visual Studio. Is there a way to build OOo with Visual Studio without Cygwin? I don't know. I have looked through the various documents for the Windows platform, and you're right that they use both Visual Studio and Cygwin. It will thus be only one document for Windows. For Windows with Cygwin link to [1] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_OOo_with_Cygwin_on_Windows I'll move this page into this guide, to maintain the history if this is alright. When content comes from html pages though I have to copy it though. The guide is very good. With that guide I was able to get my first build :) Then this is the document all new developers should read. ;-) Thank you Regina. Per - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi Christian, i really don't understand what your problem is. Maybe you missed the goal of Per's work, it is simply the consolidation of several different pages into one new place, put some structure on it and extend or improve it where necessary. From my point of view structure is always good and the documentation project did a good job here. So why not using the same technique in other places. Call it guide, book or whatever. In the end you don't have to read it all, you will be guide to the pages you need. And i think you look on it with the wrong glasses. You are very familiar with all this stuff and it's clear for you as well as for others. Great you can read configure but many others not. But they maybe want to build OOo on their own because they can C++. And they are maybe able to fix some issues, are able to create patches (with the right instruction), etc. etc. The work Per is doing is not for the developers we already have it is probably more for new ones. We should support this effort with the knowledge we have and make it a valuable resource for new developers. The only place we have to maintain for future changes, improvements in this area. Juergen Christian Lohmaier wrote: Hi Marcin, *, 2009/7/16 Marcin Miłkowski milek...@o2.pl: Christian Lohmaier pisze: I still disagree. Basically /all/ of the questions asken on IRC about building OOo were because people are unable to read configure or because they don't use vanilla build system. Most of those didn't bother to read any instructions, didn't look for instructions. I could reply that probably using IRC is eating their brains ;) as most questions asked at dev seem to be quite different. Those questions will not be answered by a building OOo for newbies guide. The one I remember fall into the not using vanilla OOo/not taking advice given category. The other ones were build breakers are introduced (already built successfully in the past, newer milestone breaks). System components change in a incompatible way. Nothing that could be covered in a simple guide. (but rather are bugs in the code) [...] Linux build was strangely broken). Those even less. To get this straight: I'm /not/ against consolidating the pages, au contraire, I support getting rid of old pages. But: I am against yet another place (instead of reusing the existing pages) I am against the structure as it appears now I doubt that the new documentation will cause less questions. I'm speaking for myself only, and of course don't tell anybody to stop with the efforts. ciao Christian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi Christian, *, Christian Lohmaier pisze: Hi Marcin, *, 2009/7/16 Marcin Miłkowski milek...@o2.pl: Christian Lohmaier pisze: I still disagree. Basically /all/ of the questions asken on IRC about building OOo were because people are unable to read configure or because they don't use vanilla build system. Most of those didn't bother to read any instructions, didn't look for instructions. I could reply that probably using IRC is eating their brains ;) as most questions asked at dev seem to be quite different. Those questions will not be answered by a building OOo for newbies guide. The one I remember fall into the not using vanilla OOo/not taking advice given category. Actually, people were asking quite frequently about details regarding Windows build because they found one page about it but not another one in the wiki (there were several pages that were not linked to each other and it was really hard to find them). This is exactly what will be fixed by Per. The other ones were build breakers are introduced (already built successfully in the past, newer milestone breaks). System components change in a incompatible way. Nothing that could be covered in a simple guide. (but rather are bugs in the code) This is true but if you're a new developer, you might be unaware of the fact that you can easily query IZ and find the patch already submitted by pjanik or others for such build problems. I doubt that the new documentation will cause less questions. Maybe there will be more questions because less people will be intimidated to build OOo and try their own patches. And one more thing: OOo is mainly C++ but sometimes you might want to fix a small snippet of Java inside it, and for that you don't really have to know how to develop in C++. So there are cases when you don't have to be familiar with the usual C++ configuring stuff to submit a patch of some value. Regards Marcin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hello, Marcin Miłkowski skrev: I doubt that the new documentation will cause less questions. Maybe there will be more questions because less people will be intimidated to build OOo and try their own patches. Yes Marcin, you are right and I really hope so. It would be great. Because it would lead to more fixes, more programmers, more contributors and more new features to the market. And one more thing: OOo is mainly C++ but sometimes you might want to fix a small snippet of Java inside it, and for that you don't really have to know how to develop in C++. So there are cases when you don't have to be familiar with the usual C++ configuring stuff to submit a patch of some value. Per - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hello, Here is how far I've come so far. Several pages' content have now been moved to these 7 pages: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Development/OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide They originate from various places (which can be hard to find), including: http://tools.openoffice.org/background.html http://tools.openoffice.org/dev_docs/build_linux.html http://tools.openoffice.org/dev_docs/build_solaris.html http://tools.openoffice.org/dev_docs/build_windows_tcsh.html http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_OpenOffice.org http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Windows http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_OOo_with_Cygwin_on_Windows http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_Requirements http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_Linux_Requirements http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_Windows_Requirements http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_Solaris_Requirements We are currently *saving* 4 pages, and it will surely increase to more. Some wiki pages already redirect to this new content. The plan is to redirect all the pages, including the tools html pages, each to the corresponding new documents. It will surely be easier for us to update the pages when they are placed more together. It will also be easier to spot irragularities as the instructions are closer to eachother. I have not moved any content for Mac, and I will not do. What I need help with: ** Go through the Windows pages and do any updating that might be needed to the new document. We want all the correct information to be in the new document. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_OOo_with_Cygwin_on_Windows http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_OpenOffice.org http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Windows http://tools.openoffice.org/dev_docs/build_windows_tcsh.html E.g. the section about getting the source is already covered by this topic in the guide. ** Design fixes to the new documents, there are still some structure stuff to improve. Per Juergen Schmidt skrev: Hi Christian, i really don't understand what your problem is. Maybe you missed the goal of Per's work, it is simply the consolidation of several different pages into one new place, put some structure on it and extend or improve it where necessary. From my point of view structure is always good and the documentation project did a good job here. So why not using the same technique in other places. Call it guide, book or whatever. In the end you don't have to read it all, you will be guide to the pages you need. And i think you look on it with the wrong glasses. You are very familiar with all this stuff and it's clear for you as well as for others. Great you can read configure but many others not. But they maybe want to build OOo on their own because they can C++. And they are maybe able to fix some issues, are able to create patches (with the right instruction), etc. etc. The work Per is doing is not for the developers we already have it is probably more for new ones. We should support this effort with the knowledge we have and make it a valuable resource for new developers. The only place we have to maintain for future changes, improvements in this area. Juergen Christian Lohmaier wrote: Hi Marcin, *, 2009/7/16 Marcin Miłkowski milek...@o2.pl: Christian Lohmaier pisze: I still disagree. Basically /all/ of the questions asken on IRC about building OOo were because people are unable to read configure or because they don't use vanilla build system. Most of those didn't bother to read any instructions, didn't look for instructions. I could reply that probably using IRC is eating their brains ;) as most questions asked at dev seem to be quite different. Those questions will not be answered by a building OOo for newbies guide. The one I remember fall into the not using vanilla OOo/not taking advice given category. The other ones were build breakers are introduced (already built successfully in the past, newer milestone breaks). System components change in a incompatible way. Nothing that could be covered in a simple guide. (but rather are bugs in the code) [...] Linux build was strangely broken). Those even less. To get this straight: I'm /not/ against consolidating the pages, au contraire, I support getting rid of old pages. But: I am against yet another place (instead of reusing the existing pages) I am against the structure as it appears now I doubt that the new documentation will cause less questions. I'm speaking for myself only, and of course don't tell anybody to stop with the efforts. ciao Christian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands,
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi Jürgen, *, On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Juergen Schmidtjuergen.schm...@sun.com wrote: i really don't understand what your problem is. My problem is that everyone is eager to start new projects, new efforts instead of improviing what is there already. My problem is that if you really feel the need of simplifying the build, then don't do it by adding instructions, but by actually making the build itself simpler. Maybe you missed the goal of Per's work, it is simply the consolidation of several different pages into one new place, Seems like my points didn't come through either. I'm all for removing duplication in the build instructions. I was against duplication in the past already. So full support on that item from my side. [...] And i think you look on it with the wrong glasses. You are very familiar with all this stuff and it's clear for you as well as for others. No. I did compile OOo myself for the first time in the past as well. At that time, I just did read the instructions and off it went. I did look for info. I didn't assume I know already. Great you can read configure but many others not. I didn't speak about reading configure itself, but reading the output of configure, i.e. what configure tells you to do when you run it. That's a big difference. If configure prints get file from URL or use mingw and people still complain about not being able to tell where to get file, that sepaks for itself. [...] The work Per is doing is not for the developers we already have it is probably more for new ones. Probably that's another part of the problem I have. This makes it sound like there wouldn't be any documenation for new builders at all. That's just not the case. ciao Christian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi Christian, Christian Lohmaier skrev: Hi Jürgen, *, On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Juergen Schmidtjuergen.schm...@sun.com wrote: i really don't understand what your problem is. My problem is that everyone is eager to start new projects, new efforts instead of improviing what is there already. My problem is that if you really feel the need of simplifying the build, then don't do it by adding instructions, but by actually making the build itself simpler. Maybe there are several meanings of the word consolidation. For me it means to move and merge documents together to create fewer documents. The goal has always been to cut the number of documents in half, and provide better linking. Please take a look at the current draft and say what you think. Per - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi Christian, *, [...] The work Per is doing is not for the developers we already have it is probably more for new ones. Probably that's another part of the problem I have. This makes it sound like there wouldn't be any documenation for new builders at all. That's just not the case. There's additional value in what Per was doing: removing obsolete instruction concerning CVS etc. Note: I was unable to find a good page about SVN just two months ago in OOo wiki, and I've seen that most of the build instructions were really outdated as they didn't point to real sources. If you think that having instruction which is completely off the mark is OK, then you probably don't understand the point of having documentation. Note: documentation is just what it is, it documents the current processes. It cannot simplify them. Maybe OOo should move to more standard build tools: this comes up in conversation quite a lot, and maybe standard autoconfigure tools would work. But migrating to a complete new set of build tools is a major project for many people, and probably not worth the effort. Idiots will of course stay idiots and will ask stupid questions. But there is one thing you do in such a case: you create a FAQ and put the link to the FAQ instead of answering all that stupid questions. Regards Marcin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi, Christian skrev: Probably that's another part of the problem I have. This makes it sound like there wouldn't be any documenation for new builders at all. That's just not the case. The problem which this effort is working with [1], has got a lot to do with problems with linking on our website. We know where the new developers arrive, at development and contributing. Yet these pages points you to other pages than the beginner documents. This intends to be fixed. The wiki page is currently identifying several issues and suggesting several solutions to them. An extremely simple and constructive way of working. Several project leads are also informed what we are trying to do and think it's a well needed effort. 1. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Development/Simplifying_entry_for_new_developers Per - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
[dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hello, I am cross-posting this to dev and documentation, but think that best would be if discussions run on dev, as many of the details probably will be discussed there. As a part of the Simplifying entry for new developers [1] effort I have the idea of collecting all the wiki pages about building the software into a building guide, as the developer guide [2]. I have discussed with several people about including it into the developer guide, but the answer was always that the developer guide would get too big. I therefore see building as an own process or part. Having a building guide would simplify and make it easier for new developers to find articles and getting to the right pages faster by providing the navigation as in the developer guide. This work would be done by sorting, consolidating and editing the various wiki pages into a guide with a structure. In this work various negative comments about building OpenOffice.org being impossible in the articles will be replaced by constructive tips for the developer. If you think this is a good idea, I will start a new small effort for this in the wiki. [1] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Development/Simplifying_entry_for_new_developers#Building_the_software [2] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/DevGuide/OpenOffice.org_Developers_Guide Per - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi Per, i think it is a very good idea to consolidate the different resources (webpages, wiki pages) in one place. It definitely make sense to put some organization in it or at least reorganize the stuff we have to make it easier to start and to find the correct things. The question is where to put the stuff. A new well structured section under http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Development/Building_the_software/... or http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_the_software/... or should it start even shorter http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_the_software/... I expect some hierarchical structure similar to the DevGuide with sections for the different platforms etc. Anyway i really appreciate your work and that you bring it up and what's even more important, you started your work already ;-) I will try to support you where i can! Juergen Per Eriksson wrote: Hello, I am cross-posting this to dev and documentation, but think that best would be if discussions run on dev, as many of the details probably will be discussed there. As a part of the Simplifying entry for new developers [1] effort I have the idea of collecting all the wiki pages about building the software into a building guide, as the developer guide [2]. I have discussed with several people about including it into the developer guide, but the answer was always that the developer guide would get too big. I therefore see building as an own process or part. Having a building guide would simplify and make it easier for new developers to find articles and getting to the right pages faster by providing the navigation as in the developer guide. This work would be done by sorting, consolidating and editing the various wiki pages into a guide with a structure. In this work various negative comments about building OpenOffice.org being impossible in the articles will be replaced by constructive tips for the developer. If you think this is a good idea, I will start a new small effort for this in the wiki. [1] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Development/Simplifying_entry_for_new_developers#Building_the_software [2] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/DevGuide/OpenOffice.org_Developers_Guide Per - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hello Juergen, Juergen Schmidt skrev: Hi Per, i think it is a very good idea to consolidate the different resources (webpages, wiki pages) in one place. It definitely make sense to put some organization in it or at least reorganize the stuff we have to make it easier to start and to find the correct things. The question is where to put the stuff. A new well structured section under http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Development/Building_the_software/... or http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_the_software/... or should it start even shorter http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_the_software/... I expect some hierarchical structure similar to the DevGuide with sections for the different platforms etc. Anyway i really appreciate your work and that you bring it up and what's even more important, you started your work already ;-) Thanks for all the kind words. I have created the guide here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Development/OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide And these are the page created so far: OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Introduction OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Getting the source OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Basic Concepts OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Build Requirements OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Windows Build Requirements OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Mac OS X Build Requirements OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Linux Build Requirements OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Solaris Build Requirements Now to the articles that describe the building for the various platforms. I have read through the existing documentation, and come up with the following headlines. Do anyone feel it should look differently? OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Windows with Cygwin OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Windows with Visual Studio OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Mac OS X OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Linux OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Solaris Per - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi Per,
Per Eriksson a écrit :
[...]
Thanks for all the kind words.
I have created the guide here:
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Development/OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide
And these are the page created so far:
OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide
OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Introduction
OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Getting the source
OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Basic Concepts
OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Build Requirements
OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Windows Build Requirements
OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Mac OS X Build Requirements
OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Linux Build Requirements
OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Solaris Build Requirements
Now to the articles that describe the building for the various platforms.
I have read through the existing documentation, and come up with the
following headlines. Do anyone feel it should look differently?
OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Windows with Cygwin
OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Windows with Visual Studio
OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Mac OS X
OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Linux
OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Solaris
thanks a lot for your work on this guide. Could you add the PDL licence
on the pages so that we can help where we can? The template we use is
{{PDL1}}. Thanks in advance.
Kind regards
Sophie
-
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Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi Sophie, Sgauti skrev: Hi Per, thanks a lot for your work on this guide. Could you add the PDL licence on the pages so that we can help where we can? Fixed - thanks for mentioning this. ;-) per - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi Per, Per Eriksson schrieb: I have created the guide here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Development/OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide And these are the page created so far: OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Introduction OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Getting the source OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Basic Concepts OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Build Requirements OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Windows Build Requirements OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Mac OS X Build Requirements OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Linux Build Requirements OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Solaris Build Requirements Now to the articles that describe the building for the various platforms. I have read through the existing documentation, and come up with the following headlines. Do anyone feel it should look differently? OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Windows with Cygwin OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Windows with Visual Studio OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Mac OS X OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Linux OpenOffice.org_Building_Guide/Building on Solaris I would like it more, to have the Requirements in the same chapter as Building. That means main chapters for the OS and then subchapters as needed. Otherwise I would again have to collect the information that are relevant for my OS. On the other hand, I do not know whether a subchapter Requirements is really needed. During the guide [1] you are told, which things are needed and -more important- what you have to consider when installing it or copying to the right place. You have the two chapters Windows with Cygwin and Windows with Visual Studio. Is there a way to build OOo with Visual Studio without Cygwin? I don't know. For Windows with Cygwin link to [1] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_OOo_with_Cygwin_on_Windows The guide is very good. With that guide I was able to get my first build :) kind regards Regina - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi Per, *, On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Per Erikssonpereriks...@openoffice.org wrote: Having a building guide would simplify and make it easier for new developers to find articles and getting to the right pages faster by providing the navigation as in the developer guide. I beg to differ. You don't need a guide. The people who try to build OOo and fail are those who don't bother to read instructions. Even a step-by-step instruction explicitly written to match their system wouldn't help in that case. But that's another story. This work would be done by sorting, consolidating and editing the various wiki pages into a guide with a structure. I dislike the idea to have a huge guide. In this work various negative comments about building OpenOffice.org being impossible in the articles will be replaced by constructive tips for the developer. It never was complicated to build OOo on linux. Since aqua version is default, it is no longer complicated to build OOo on Mac OSX. The only problematic systems are Windows and other ports. The problem only arises because people are too lazy to read, always know better, don't even use the OOo build system / ignore warnings issued by configure / don't try a default build but in a I do fancy tricks with the buildsystem stuff way. The only noteworthy parts is * installing build requirements. (and there we're back at people being unable to read / unwilling to read configure output. See the many why does the build want mingw type of question. Configure states: Either get the prebuilt one from url or build using mingw. But people are unable to read and thus ask stupid questions on the IRC-channel. Or they disable the packaging component and then wonder why they don't get installable packages, but only files spread around in a directory. For linux (and also for the actual building part on Mac), the http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Building_OpenOffice.org IMHO is more than enough. (I dislike some of the recent edits though, like the swext Hint - that is more suitable for a What if something goes wrong page. In the build guide it just adds noise. Similar to other edits). So the new guide should focus on the OS-Specific parts. On Mac OSX that would be: Getting/installing XCode (and svn on 10.4), Where to obtain ccache. And: What do do if one doesn't want to use the prebuilt mozilla-zips, but build from scratch (the only case where one really needs to install third-party libs/packages) On Windows that would be: What compiler-version is suitable, and what to do when using the Personal edition, how to get cygwin running, what packages to install with cygwin, what other tools are needed. On Linux: Well, as mentioned above: The only thing you need are the (rather few) build-dependencies. Everyone who is attempting to build OOo should have at least compiled some other software anytime before. So they should be able to read configure output (i.e. tell from install cups devel package - don't nail me on the wording - that they need to install the corresponding packages their distribution provides libcups-devel cups-devel or whatever naming scheme the distro uses). There really aren't that many. The real guide then only is * run confiugre with appropriate options (with the suggestion to use --with-use-shell=bash) * point out prebuilt-mozilla/unowinreg.dll * source the environment file configure creates (again configure tells the user to do so, but users cannot read) * run dmake or build --all from instsetoo_native The rest is: How to make a parallel build How to reduce build time What do the configure options actually do (so what is the real effect of using that option on a high-level view) Getting the source-code and explanation of MWS/CWS probably should be on a seperate page so you can explain it in more detail without clobbering the build-instructions Probly this whole post can be summarized with: KISS ciao Christian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi Christian, Christian Lohmaier skrev: Hi Per, *, On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Per Erikssonpereriks...@openoffice.org wrote: Having a building guide would simplify and make it easier for new developers to find articles and getting to the right pages faster by providing the navigation as in the developer guide. I beg to differ. You don't need a guide. The people who try to build OOo and fail are those who don't bother to read instructions. Even a step-by-step instruction explicitly written to match their system wouldn't help in that case. But that's another story. I have another view there, which is why founded this initiative. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Development/Simplifying_entry_for_new_developers It is based on my own experience when I first started to get interested in OpenOffice.org. If a developer cannot find the building information it is probably because there they can't find the information, or that there are too many documents, including documents with wrong information. New documents are written because they cannot edit the CVS documents etc. Of course this initiative includes: - Updating links to the new content - Provide redirects - Promoting this guide on all the places where content is currently placed. This work would be done by sorting, consolidating and editing the various wiki pages into a guide with a structure. I dislike the idea to have a huge guide. Actually after this work is done, the content will be much smaller than what we have today, it will provide better navigation etc. Plus please see above. What I have identified is that we have an enormous amount of documents on too many places. In this work various negative comments about building OpenOffice.org being impossible in the articles will be replaced by constructive tips for the developer. It never was complicated to build OOo on linux. Since aqua version is default, it is no longer complicated to build OOo on Mac OSX. The only problematic systems are Windows and other ports. What I am referring to is actually problems in the current documents, where building is referred to as: Complicated Impossible Ooo-build is much easier These are all things that will be removed in this initiative. The problem only arises because people are too lazy to read, always know better, don't even use the OOo build system / ignore warnings issued by configure / don't try a default build but in a I do fancy tricks with the buildsystem stuff way. No. The problem is that we have: - Documents for building the software everywhere - Tutorials which complete eacher instead of being one document - Hard to as a new developer get a good overview of the process. /../ I will only accept to question my own designs of my pages. I will never question the new developer. We need them too much. Per - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi, Le 15 juil. 09 à 22:43, Per Eriksson a écrit : I have another view there, which is why founded this initiative. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Development/ Simplifying_entry_for_new_developers FYI, one of the goals of the Education Project, is to welcome newcomers (mainly students), and simplify the entry for new developers. Are you aware ? Eric Bachard -- qɔᴉɹə
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi Per, *, On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 10:43 PM, Per Erikssonpereriks...@openoffice.org wrote: Christian Lohmaier skrev: On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Per Erikssonpereriks...@openoffice.org wrote: If a developer cannot find the building information it is probably because there they can't find the information, I still disagree. Basically /all/ of the questions asken on IRC about building OOo were because people are unable to read configure or because they don't use vanilla build system. Most of those didn't bother to read any instructions, didn't look for instructions. If you cannot find the Building OpenOffice.org wiki page, then I have no words to say. Those surely will not be able to find another wiki page. or that there are too many documents, including documents with wrong information. New documents are written because they cannot edit the CVS documents etc. And please, please don't base your argumentation pro/agains a new guide on the situation as it was three or four years ago. The Building OpenOffice.org page exists in the wiki since 2006. Of course this initiative includes: - Updating links to the new content - Provide redirects - Promoting this guide on all the places where content is currently placed. For this, you don't need to write a new book [...] What I have identified is that we have an enormous amount of documents on too many places. Yes. And now you're adding yet another place. In this work various negative comments about building OpenOffice.org being impossible in the articles will be replaced by constructive tips for the developer. It never was complicated to build OOo on linux. Since aqua version is default, it is no longer complicated to build OOo on Mac OSX. The only problematic systems are Windows and other ports. What I am referring to is actually problems in the current documents, where building is referred to as: Complicated Impossible Ooo-build is much easier Yes, go-oo is freer, faster, better.. Sure thing. Of course go-oo folks write such propaganda. And probably all those complains are not about building OOo itself, but getting the right sources. What makes OOo slighly more complicated is its development structure. While still in cvs, you needed to use the OpenOffice2 alias (or OpenOffice2 and Extensions). THAT was chaos and complicated. People with problems didn't bother to checkout a milestone, but tried trunk, or did use the wrong alias and were getting incomplete/wrong sources. And of course then the complaint is ah, this is all so complicated: But only complicated because the user didn't look for info before trying to build. Now with svn it is little easier, no aliases anymore, however still the Milestones. [...] ciao Christian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hello, Christian Lohmaier skrev: Hi Per, *, On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 10:43 PM, Per Erikssonpereriks...@openoffice.org wrote: Christian Lohmaier skrev: On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Per Erikssonpereriks...@openoffice.org wrote: If a developer cannot find the building information it is probably because there they can't find the information, I still disagree. Basically /all/ of the questions asken on IRC about building OOo were because people are unable to read configure or because they don't use vanilla build system. Most of those didn't bother to read any instructions, didn't look for instructions. If you cannot find the Building OpenOffice.org wiki page, then I have no words to say. Those surely will not be able to find another wiki page. I refuse to mention the developer's lazyness in the discussion. Only my own layout, linking and planning of the documents. or that there are too many documents, including documents with wrong information. New documents are written because they cannot edit the CVS documents etc. And please, please don't base your argumentation pro/agains a new guide on the situation as it was three or four years ago. The Building OpenOffice.org page exists in the wiki since 2006. Of course this initiative includes: - Updating links to the new content - Provide redirects - Promoting this guide on all the places where content is currently placed. For this, you don't need to write a new book It will be the relevant documents put close together, with a navigation on the right hand side. :-) Yes. And now you're adding yet another place. No the old documents will be redirecting after this work. There will only be the 15 pages in this place, easily updatable for everyone, as these are things that change from time to time it's easier to update them in the wiki. Your comments about which documents are interesting to keep is very valuable. Yes, go-oo is freer, faster, better.. Sure thing. Of course go-oo folks write such propaganda. And I intend to fix it. Per - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hello Eric, eric b skrev: FYI, one of the goals of the Education Project, is to welcome newcomers (mainly students), and simplify the entry for new developers. Yes. I am working with the existing contributing and development pages that many new developers come to with their first visit. Per - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi Christian, Christian Lohmaier pisze: I still disagree. Basically /all/ of the questions asken on IRC about building OOo were because people are unable to read configure or because they don't use vanilla build system. Most of those didn't bother to read any instructions, didn't look for instructions. I could reply that probably using IRC is eating their brains ;) as most questions asked at dev seem to be quite different. Building OOo requires some extra care, especially on Windows but on Linux it can also break easily (actually I succeeded in building OOo quite a few times with my patches on a Windows machine but my Linux build was strangely broken). So even if you read instructions you might fail. What Per is doing is just great, I remember searching the wiki, googling it, and trying to find all pieces of info I needed. Regards Marcin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Hi Marcin, *, 2009/7/16 Marcin Miłkowski milek...@o2.pl: Christian Lohmaier pisze: I still disagree. Basically /all/ of the questions asken on IRC about building OOo were because people are unable to read configure or because they don't use vanilla build system. Most of those didn't bother to read any instructions, didn't look for instructions. I could reply that probably using IRC is eating their brains ;) as most questions asked at dev seem to be quite different. Those questions will not be answered by a building OOo for newbies guide. The one I remember fall into the not using vanilla OOo/not taking advice given category. The other ones were build breakers are introduced (already built successfully in the past, newer milestone breaks). System components change in a incompatible way. Nothing that could be covered in a simple guide. (but rather are bugs in the code) [...] Linux build was strangely broken). Those even less. To get this straight: I'm /not/ against consolidating the pages, au contraire, I support getting rid of old pages. But: I am against yet another place (instead of reusing the existing pages) I am against the structure as it appears now I doubt that the new documentation will cause less questions. I'm speaking for myself only, and of course don't tell anybody to stop with the efforts. ciao Christian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Consolidating build instructions for the community
Christian, from your own post :- ...I doubt that the new documentation will cause less questions Oh really? what will cause less questions is turning off people with less familiarity and experience with this material by branding them lazy and stupid - to the detriment of of the OOo community at large. -- Mike Moller Lallybroch Alpacas New Zealand www.lallybroch.co.nz 2009/7/16 Christian Lohmaier cl...@openoffice.org Hi Marcin, *, 2009/7/16 Marcin Miłkowski milek...@o2.pl: Christian Lohmaier pisze: I still disagree. Basically /all/ of the questions asken on IRC about building OOo were because people are unable to read configure or because they don't use vanilla build system. Most of those didn't bother to read any instructions, didn't look for instructions. I could reply that probably using IRC is eating their brains ;) as most questions asked at dev seem to be quite different. Those questions will not be answered by a building OOo for newbies guide. The one I remember fall into the not using vanilla OOo/not taking advice given category. The other ones were build breakers are introduced (already built successfully in the past, newer milestone breaks). System components change in a incompatible way. Nothing that could be covered in a simple guide. (but rather are bugs in the code) [...] Linux build was strangely broken). Those even less. To get this straight: I'm /not/ against consolidating the pages, au contraire, I support getting rid of old pages. But: I am against yet another place (instead of reusing the existing pages) I am against the structure as it appears now I doubt that the new documentation will cause less questions. I'm speaking for myself only, and of course don't tell anybody to stop with the efforts. ciao Christian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
