Re: OFW sad face doesn't say why
On Jul 19, 2008, at 9:36 PM, John Gilmore wrote: But a certain former security wizard at OLPC removed that recommendation from the Wiki page, thus leading to your current troubles. This is untrue; please support your claims with diffs. As per: http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Activation_and_developer_keysdiff=90142oldid=89333 I removed the line 23 suggestion for one to immediately _get_ their devkey, nothing else. -- Ivan Krstić [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://radian.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
joyride builds failing due to insufficient space
Hi, sugar - 0.81.6-4.20080715git8137d5c37f.fc9.i386: Insufficient space in download directory /home/cscott/public_html/xo-1/streams/joyride/build2187-20080720_2235/devel_jffs2/install_root/var/cache/yum/olpc_development/packages to download Regards, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: PlayGo Patches/Commit access
Hi Andrés! I'm also a Go player and I'd really love to see this activity improve. Is it already possible to share this activity so that children can play together from two different XOs? I was unable to get this working when I last tried. If this is not possible yet, I think this should be a top priority, more than making it possible to play against GnuGo. As for requests about getting commit access, I thought each activity had a maintainer with its email well advertized, but this is not the case. The maintainer's email could appear either on the activity wiki page and/or in the git repository. Sadly enough, there is no such contact information neither on http://wiki.laptop.org/go/PlayGo nor in the git repo: http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/PlayGo;a=summary (there is only Gerard J. Cerchio as a name...) Another good place to find the name of the maintainer would be http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities In other git repos, the Owner is often an email, which makes it straightforward for anyone to jump into a project. See for example http://repo.or.cz/ In gitorious.org or github.com, you can send messages to the owner: http://gitorious.org/projects/basecms http://github.com/agnathan/odf2logos/tree/master Looking forward to kibbitzing with people around here... -- Bastien ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OFW sad face doesn't say why
On 21.07.2008 11:53, Ivan Krstić wrote: On Jul 19, 2008, at 9:36 PM, John Gilmore wrote: But a certain former security wizard at OLPC removed that recommendation from the Wiki page, thus leading to your current troubles. This is untrue; please support your claims with diffs. As per: http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Activation_and_developer_keysdiff=90142oldid=89333 I removed the line 23 suggestion for one to immediately _get_ their devkey, nothing else. Sorry, but that's untrue, unless your definition of nothing else is political stuff. That very changeset made by you also had political edits. I would have fallen for your claim if you had not linked to the changeset which disproves it. If there was any other context attached to nothing else, you failed to make that clear. (And as a security guru, leaving ambiguities is not exactly good practice.) Regards, Carl-Daniel -- http://www.hailfinger.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OFW sad face doesn't say why
On Jul 21, 2008, at 8:38 AM, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote: Sorry, but that's untrue, unless your definition of nothing else is political stuff. My definition of nothing else is nothing else relevant to the claim the poster was making. John was quite aware of the changes to the political stuff, we discussed them, I stand behind them, and I clearly wasn't trying to hide anything from anyone given that I linked to the URL. -- Ivan Krstić [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://radian.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Report on `switching between activities and the journal'
Hi, Problem: switching between activities and the journal is slow Test-case: the test consist of starting Write and switching between it and the journal for a sensible amount of time. All tests were run on a xo; the journal had 50 entries. Switching was automated by calling shell.activate_next_activity() every ~730ms (as the minimum value at which both activities could get completely redrawn). Real transition timings differ from the timer's period value of 730ms. The `switch' journal - write takes an average of 735ms while the transition write - journal takes values from 1 to 2 seconds. During the test, activate_next_activity() in Shell.py was called 695 times. cpu usage data gathered with Picker (pid 2564 is the Write activity): tot% ps% cmdline --- 34.6 python /usr/bin/sugar-activity journalactivity ... 57.1 22.6 python /usr/sbin/rainbow-daemon --daemon ... [Write] 77.9 20.8 python /usr/bin/datastore-service 85.0 7.2 python /usr/bin/sugar-shell 91.5 6.5 /usr/bin/X :0 -fp built-ins -wr -auth ... 97.1 5.6 picker (http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/ActivitiesSwitching/journal-write/picker.stats) http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/ActivitiesSwitching/journal-write/picker.stats.svg They were obtained by running: $ picker $ grapher -c6 -r cpu The 22.6% took by Write is due to the activity saving and loading its state (taking screnshots, reading/writing files..) regardless it change or not (http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-July/016722.html). The shell is taking the 7% of cpu-time; isn't it too much for this task? cProfile statistics (KCacheGrind format) for the journal: http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/ActivitiesSwitching/journal-write/cProfile-journalactivity The journal spends 69.4% of it's time in __refresh_idle_cb in listview.py. Ordering by function self-time: 29.7 : send_message_with_reply_and_block of dbus 15.7 : gtk.main() 10.9 : __init__ in activities/Journal.activity/palettes.py (2211 calls) 3.7 : cairo.Context.paint() 3.3 : __init__ sugar/graphics/palette.py Asynchronous dbus calls ? Perhaps icons and palettes could be cached ? cProfile statistics (KCacheGrind format) for Write: http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/ActivitiesSwitching/journal-write/cProfile-write Similar results were already commented at http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-July/016722.html for a similar task. cProfile statistics (KCacheGrind format) for the datastore-service aren't much interesting this time (a separate test case should be designed for it): http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/ActivitiesSwitching/journal-write/cProfile-datastore cProfile statistics (KCacheGrind format) for sugar-shell: http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/ActivitiesSwitching/journal-write/cProfile-shell 51.3% of time in the shell is going to send_message_with_reply_and_block of dbus. I guess this is because of the calls to the activities's services; maybe some of them can be made asynchronous ? Other functions showing particularly up by self-time are: 20.8 : gtk.main() 4.1 : __init_ in sugar/graphics/icon.py (1509 calls) 2.9 : wnck.Window.activate() 2.1 : __init_ in sugar/graphics/palette.py (859 calls) Perhaps icons and palettes could be cached ? sysprof statistics: http://dev.laptop.org/~rlucchese/ActivitiesSwitching/journal-write/sysprof.data Similar results were already commented at http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-July/016722.html for a similar task. Only one more thing I note particularly: 1. Python is spending a lot of time in the kernel. Too much reading/writing to the nand ? thanks, riccardo ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Fwd: Announcing the Fedora OLPC Special Interest Group
Greg rocks! ---BeginMessage--- I've already sent this note to a bunch of lists, but this is the list that really counts. You folks are the ones who will make or break this effort. Much of the work that lies before us is exactly the kind of work that all of you have been doing for years now. So please, join up. We could really use the help. Those of you whom I know personally, I will be begging for your help off-list in a somewhat less dignified manner. ;) * * * The engineers at OLPC are busy building an educational experience for the kids of the world. They are basing their excellent work on Fedora. Their time is stretched perilously thin. Every hour an overworked OLPC engineer spends doing Fedora work is an hour they could be spending doing something else. We in the Fedora community can therefore have a huge, direct, and immediate impact on the success of the OLPC project. Thus, I am proud to announce the formation of the Fedora OLPC Special Interest Group. Our mission: to provide the OLPC project with a strong, sustainable, scalable, community-driven base platform for innovation. Immediate Goals: 1. To identify and take responsible ownership of as many OLPC base packages as possible. 2. To maintain an excellent Sugar environment for Fedora, including a dedicated Sugar spin. 3. To identify useful opportunities for collaboration (infrastructure, localization, etc.) We should convene our first meeting as soon as possible. If you are interested in participating, please join the Fedora OLPC mailing list here and introduce yourself: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-olpc-list --g -- fedora-devel-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list ---End Message--- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Fwd: Announcing the Fedora OLPC Special Interest Group
Forwarding again without the annoying attachment style Forwarded Message From: Greg Dekoenigsberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Development discussions related to Fedora [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Announcing the Fedora OLPC Special Interest Group Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:36:08 -0400 (EDT) I've already sent this note to a bunch of lists, but this is the list that really counts. You folks are the ones who will make or break this effort. Much of the work that lies before us is exactly the kind of work that all of you have been doing for years now. So please, join up. We could really use the help. Those of you whom I know personally, I will be begging for your help off-list in a somewhat less dignified manner. ;) * * * The engineers at OLPC are busy building an educational experience for the kids of the world. They are basing their excellent work on Fedora. Their time is stretched perilously thin. Every hour an overworked OLPC engineer spends doing Fedora work is an hour they could be spending doing something else. We in the Fedora community can therefore have a huge, direct, and immediate impact on the success of the OLPC project. Thus, I am proud to announce the formation of the Fedora OLPC Special Interest Group. Our mission: to provide the OLPC project with a strong, sustainable, scalable, community-driven base platform for innovation. Immediate Goals: 1. To identify and take responsible ownership of as many OLPC base packages as possible. 2. To maintain an excellent Sugar environment for Fedora, including a dedicated Sugar spin. 3. To identify useful opportunities for collaboration (infrastructure, localization, etc.) We should convene our first meeting as soon as possible. If you are interested in participating, please join the Fedora OLPC mailing list here and introduce yourself: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-olpc-list --g ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Autosave in 8.2.0?
Am 20.07.2008 um 12:27 schrieb Tomeu Vizoso: On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Bert Freudenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am 17.07.2008 um 07:37 schrieb Bert Freudenberg: Am 17.07.2008 um 00:10 schrieb Tomeu Vizoso: Marco has added a session manager to Sugar (in 8.2.0) that takes care of telling activities to save their work because the system is being shut down. Haven't verified if this is complete and working. Have you, Marco? If so, this would also take care of the case where kids shut down before closing all running activities first. How does this work from an activity's pov? - Bert - Thanks for not answering, and not updating the API doc, and me having to dig through Sugar patches to find out how this works. Bert, you should know better than others how things are here. We cannot manage to do the things we know that must be done, much less we can do those properly. If I was in any regular job, I would limit myself to do what I can, and do it right. Here we just cannot behave like that. You are right to be frustrated by this situation, but please don't ask us to do more than what is in our hands. If you know anyone who would like to join us in this craziness, please point them to http://www.laptop.org/en/jobs.shtml . I apologize, I was particularly frustrated when I sent this. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Autosave in 8.2.0?
Am 20.07.2008 um 08:59 schrieb Marco Pesenti Gritti: On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Bert Freudenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for not answering, Hmm? Both Tomeu and me answered. http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-July/016914.html http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-July/016951.html I see. Thanks - I have to check my email setup :/ and not updating the API doc, The time I can devote to OLPC is *very* limited these days and I had no time until today to even check this API was working properly... I just finished up the python Activity bits and I have a patch up for review. I will try to update the doc on monday. and me having to dig through Sugar patches to find out how this works. I updated the doc: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Low-level_Activity_API#D-Bus_Methods === org.laptop.Activity.SyncData() Called when the laptop is about to shutdown, reboot, or suspend. The activity must save its state in the datastore. === Apparently this does not send a reason for having to sync - IMHO suspend is not as severe a reason as impending shutdown/reboot so an activity might want to choose to not save on suspend if suspends are as frequent as we anticipate. This code never went in actually... See the mails I referenced. Okay. Thanks and apologies. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
I think this is a huge problem. Here in Uruguay they are seeing a flood of machines with this problem, and it will only get worse over time (and we will encounter this in every other deployment soon.) They desperately need a fix... wad On Jul 21, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Greg Smith wrote: Hi All, I found http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7125 which looks like a good place to track this problem. I marked it blocker for 8.2.0. Here's what I think we need: - Sugar GUI always starts, no matter how much space is free on the NAND. - If Sugar starts and you are low on space (exact size tbd) then we should alert the user to start clearing space in the journal. I think Eben will work on the second part. Can someone solve the first part? Suggested steps would be to propose a solution, get buy in, code it and check it in. I shouldn't have mentioned partitioning :-( All I meant was that we cannot solve this on upgrade by whacking all user data. Thanks, Greg S Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:39:04 -0400 From: Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: NAND out of space crash (was Display warnings in sugar (Emiliano Pastorino)) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: devel@lists.laptop.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 11:47:21AM -0400, Greg Smith wrote: Hi All, Emiliano has an elegant workaround but crashing the XO on NAND full (to un-recoverable state?) is a heinous bug that affects essentially all users. If someone has the bug ID handy can you send it out and mark it a blocker for 8.2.0 (priority = blocker and keyword includes blocks: 8.2.0)? Can I get a design proposal (no re-partitioning please!), scoping and lead engineer on it ASAP? If you have to stop working on something else to do this, let me know what will drop and I'll help weigh the consequences. My impression is that the long-term benefits of partitioning mean that it's worthwhile to devote effort to it. Are we not going to work on partitioning in the future? In addition to a more solid solution to the NAND fillup issue, we get the opportunity to improve system performance and upgrade procedures. Partitioning will allow us to test out LZO data compression for the XO's filesystems (excluding /boot and /security). We would expect a significant i/o performance boost from the use of LZO. Additionally, partitioning would improve OFW-level system updates (e.g. copy- nand) by making it far simpler for the update procedure to leave user data intact. That said there are obviously a lot of troubles with partitioning. Updating an existing system to a partitioned one without mashing user data is a major issue. Erik ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
There are two issues here that we should be sure to not intertwingle: 1) whatever behavior Sugar may have when low/out of space, during operation, or at boot time. 2) JFFS2's behavior when the file system is almost full. When it gets almost full, it can spend all its time trying to garbage collect, and you can lose completely (the system sort of gets the slows, and grinds to a halt). As to 2), there are patches done by Nokia (deployed on the N800 and similar devices) that reserve some extra space and report out of space before the system gets the slows. These are in Dave's incoming queue to merge into JFFS2 the last I heard. I don't know if he's merged them. - Jim On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 13:45 -0300, John Watlington wrote: I think this is a huge problem. Here in Uruguay they are seeing a flood of machines with this problem, and it will only get worse over time (and we will encounter this in every other deployment soon.) They desperately need a fix... wad On Jul 21, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Greg Smith wrote: Hi All, I found http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7125 which looks like a good place to track this problem. I marked it blocker for 8.2.0. Here's what I think we need: - Sugar GUI always starts, no matter how much space is free on the NAND. - If Sugar starts and you are low on space (exact size tbd) then we should alert the user to start clearing space in the journal. I think Eben will work on the second part. Can someone solve the first part? Suggested steps would be to propose a solution, get buy in, code it and check it in. I shouldn't have mentioned partitioning :-( All I meant was that we cannot solve this on upgrade by whacking all user data. Thanks, Greg S Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:39:04 -0400 From: Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: NAND out of space crash (was Display warnings in sugar (Emiliano Pastorino)) To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: devel@lists.laptop.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 11:47:21AM -0400, Greg Smith wrote: Hi All, Emiliano has an elegant workaround but crashing the XO on NAND full (to un-recoverable state?) is a heinous bug that affects essentially all users. If someone has the bug ID handy can you send it out and mark it a blocker for 8.2.0 (priority = blocker and keyword includes blocks: 8.2.0)? Can I get a design proposal (no re-partitioning please!), scoping and lead engineer on it ASAP? If you have to stop working on something else to do this, let me know what will drop and I'll help weigh the consequences. My impression is that the long-term benefits of partitioning mean that it's worthwhile to devote effort to it. Are we not going to work on partitioning in the future? In addition to a more solid solution to the NAND fillup issue, we get the opportunity to improve system performance and upgrade procedures. Partitioning will allow us to test out LZO data compression for the XO's filesystems (excluding /boot and /security). We would expect a significant i/o performance boost from the use of LZO. Additionally, partitioning would improve OFW-level system updates (e.g. copy- nand) by making it far simpler for the update procedure to leave user data intact. That said there are obviously a lot of troubles with partitioning. Updating an existing system to a partitioned one without mashing user data is a major issue. Erik ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Jim Gettys [EMAIL PROTECTED] One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus
On Wed, 2008-07-16 at 19:54 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: In update.1 we shipped the DBus version of gnome-vfs2 (Nokia patches) which didn't bring ORBit in. I'm not sure if that's still the case in joyride. I looked at the OLPC-2 gnome-vfs2 spec file and I don't see what you mean here. The only obvious difference is that we changed the GConf requires to GConf2-dbus. Did you mean GConf here? I guess GConf2-dbus provides an equivalent interface to the GConf2 package and hence is a drop-in replacement. Do we want do to the same for 8.2? ORBit2 is shipped in update1 and 8.2 as well. Switching to GConf2-dbus won't cause it to go away since it is needed by gnome-python2-gnomevfs. Thanks, Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus
On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 19:00 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: I guess GConf2-dbus provides an equivalent interface to the GConf2 package and hence is a drop-in replacement. Oh ok, that make sense and I guess it's the case here... So do we want to use GConf2-dbus like we did for update1, or are we ok to stick with plain old GConf2 in 8.2? ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:03 PM, Daniel Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 19:00 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: I guess GConf2-dbus provides an equivalent interface to the GConf2 package and hence is a drop-in replacement. Oh ok, that make sense and I guess it's the case here... So do we want to use GConf2-dbus like we did for update1, or are we ok to stick with plain old GConf2 in 8.2? I'm not sure. The reason people didn't want plain GConf in the build was the ORBit dependency. Now I'm not sure if the problem there was disk space, memory or what else. I guess we should measure... Or we can ask Jim, I think he was one of the ORBit haters :) Marco ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OFW sad face doesn't say why
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 9:36 PM, John Gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: security wizard at OLPC removed that recommendation from the Wiki page, thus leading to your current troubles. If Mikus had followed your suggestion, we would not have found this (legitimate) bug. Thank you, Mikus. It's sad watching a good team continue idiotic wrestling with how much cost, trouble, fragility and end-user hassle they can insert into a system that's required by its software licenses and its own philosophy to be wide open to alteration by its users. John, I always appreciate your loyal opposition, but I wish you would be a little more understanding that OLPC's country clients *insist* on having a theft-deterrence system in place. We are doing our best to provide this while maintaining an open system. Constructive advice toward this end is always welcome. I went to the olpc-sf physical meeting today, and tried to help a woman update her XO to something later than the G1G1 650 that she received in January. Someone had showed her yum update but that didn't actually improve anything in the UI or activities. She was at the level that's having trouble remembering to put the space in between su and -l. I absolutely failed to upgrade her -- I couldn't use any automated means like olpc-update, because it required the (%*$[EMAIL PROTECTED](@ USB-only activity upgrade, and it isn't documented what release number you can safely feed the damn thing if you don't have an Activity upgrade pack handy. I followed all the instructions on the Activity upgrade pack, and it failed on me (the un-debuggable secure update script failed to mount my USB stick and panicked, even though in a normal boot, the Journal mounts the same stick as /dev/sda1. Hasn't the author heard of the Python try statement?). Result: She's still running 650, and we'll chat again in a month at the next olpc-sf meeting. olpc-update 656. That does not require upgraded activities. The forthcoming 8.2 release will provide for automatic upgrade of activities to match; that was a feature left out of 8.1 due to time constraints, and I sympathize. I'd appreciate more details on your failure to upgrade. Both Michael and I know of the try statement, but it's not clear which of our codes failed you. Maybe it was OFW, and in that case I assure you that forth has its own equivalent of the try statement, and that Mitch uses it. The 'secure' update script (whichever one you are referring to, it's not clear) is, in fact, debuggable. Mitch, Michael, and I do so regularly. Again, with a little more information on your troubles I'd be happy to help you figure out what's going on. Morals: don't assume that your Wiki readers know anything more than the English language (or their native language). And don't make five different ways to upgrade your *(%*%^$ product, each of which only does a third of the job and either depends upon or wipes out what the other ones do. I try to use olpc-update for everything, but unfortunately our users have many different use cases, and one tool does not seem sufficient for all uses. The one thing olpc-update doesn't do is one touch upgrades; if someone can give me a good design, I'd be willing to address that. But there will likely always be at least two upgrade mechanisms: olpc-update if you've got a functioning system to start with, and in bad situtations OFW for a 'clean start' that depends on as little else as possible. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Jim Gettys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are two issues here that we should be sure to not intertwingle: 1) whatever behavior Sugar may have when low/out of space, during operation, or at boot time. A number of independent issues here: a) the initscripts should be sure to unfreeze the dcon if/when X fails to start. This ensures that the system is obviously recoverable (you can recover by rebooting with the check key held down, but this is not obvious!). b) sugar should, ideally, start even if flash is full. It is currently failing when writing to ~olpc/.boot_time or some such, and crashing. c) once sugar starts, there should be a message indicating that the NAND is critically full. d) trying to save new content to the journal should also give an obvious message that the NAND is full. e) removing content from the journal should work even if NAND is full. I think (a), (b), and (e) are critical for 8.2. (c) is being handled independently by Uruguay, and (c) and (d) should be targets for 9.1. 2) JFFS2's behavior when the file system is almost full. When it gets almost full, it can spend all its time trying to garbage collect, and you can lose completely (the system sort of gets the slows, and grinds to a halt). As to 2), there are patches done by Nokia (deployed on the N800 and similar devices) that reserve some extra space and report out of space before the system gets the slows. These are in Dave's incoming queue to merge into JFFS2 the last I heard. I don't know if he's merged them. These are less critical, IMO. I have filled up NAND, and the slows are not debilitating. The issues above are. We should encourage Dave to fix this issue and the other known JFFS2 bugs (trac #6480, for instance) -- or get dsaxena to do so -- for 9.1. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
On Jul 21 2008, at 13:39, C. Scott Ananian was caught saying: 2) JFFS2's behavior when the file system is almost full. When it gets almost full, it can spend all its time trying to garbage collect, and you can lose completely (the system sort of gets the slows, and grinds to a halt). As to 2), there are patches done by Nokia (deployed on the N800 and similar devices) that reserve some extra space and report out of space before the system gets the slows. These are in Dave's incoming queue to merge into JFFS2 the last I heard. I don't know if he's merged them. These are less critical, IMO. I have filled up NAND, and the slows are not debilitating. The issues above are. We should encourage Dave to fix this issue and the other known JFFS2 bugs (trac #6480, for instance) -- or get dsaxena to do so -- for 9.1. #6480 is fixed as of yesterday, should be in next joyride. I'll be re-doing Nokia's patches so that they go upstream if we still want them after 8.2 is out; however, I don't think the approach used by them actually helps us. We already have a very limited amount of storage space and reserving space for the root user just reduces what the end user can actually use. I think analyzing performance of non-JFFS2 file systems and picking a replacement should be a high-priority item for 9.1 update. ~Deepak -- Deepak Saxena [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 09:51 -0700, Deepak Saxena wrote: On Jul 21 2008, at 13:39, C. Scott Ananian was caught saying: 2) JFFS2's behavior when the file system is almost full. When it gets almost full, it can spend all its time trying to garbage collect, and you can lose completely (the system sort of gets the slows, and grinds to a halt). As to 2), there are patches done by Nokia (deployed on the N800 and similar devices) that reserve some extra space and report out of space before the system gets the slows. These are in Dave's incoming queue to merge into JFFS2 the last I heard. I don't know if he's merged them. These are less critical, IMO. I have filled up NAND, and the slows are not debilitating. The issues above are. We should encourage Dave to fix this issue and the other known JFFS2 bugs (trac #6480, for instance) -- or get dsaxena to do so -- for 9.1. #6480 is fixed as of yesterday, should be in next joyride. I'll be re-doing Nokia's patches so that they go upstream if we still want them after 8.2 is out; however, I don't think the approach used by them actually helps us. We already have a very limited amount of storage space and reserving space for the root user just reduces what the end user can actually use. IIRC, the issue is the GC runs more and more often the closer to full you run. By reserving some space, you avoid the performance cliff. Since we expect to be running nearly full most of the time, it would seem to me avoiding this cliff is important. I think analyzing performance of non-JFFS2 file systems and picking a replacement should be a high-priority item for 9.1 update. No argument here - Jim ~Deepak -- Jim Gettys [EMAIL PROTECTED] One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
Hi, agreed on the action items, not so sure about the roadmap. On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:39 PM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: d) trying to save new content to the journal should also give an obvious message that the NAND is full. Should the DS also reserve some free space? Regards, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 09:51 -0700, Deepak Saxena wrote: On Jul 21 2008, at 13:39, C. Scott Ananian was caught saying: 2) JFFS2's behavior when the file system is almost full. When it gets almost full, it can spend all its time trying to garbage collect, and you can lose completely (the system sort of gets the slows, and grinds to a halt). As to 2), there are patches done by Nokia (deployed on the N800 and similar devices) that reserve some extra space and report out of space before the system gets the slows. These are in Dave's incoming queue to merge into JFFS2 the last I heard. I don't know if he's merged them. These are less critical, IMO. I have filled up NAND, and the slows are not debilitating. The issues above are. We should encourage Dave to fix this issue and the other known JFFS2 bugs (trac #6480, for instance) -- or get dsaxena to do so -- for 9.1. #6480 is fixed as of yesterday, should be in next joyride. Yeah. Since it was purely cosmetic I figured it might as well just wait to come through 'naturally'. I'll be re-doing Nokia's patches so that they go upstream if we still want them after 8.2 is out; however, I don't think the approach used by them actually helps us. We already have a very limited amount of storage space and reserving space for the root user just reduces what the end user can actually use. I think analyzing performance of non-JFFS2 file systems and picking a replacement should be a high-priority item for 9.1 update. I'm looking at making btrfs work on pure flash. It looks fairly sane in that respect. Using a 'standard' file system will have benefits... -- dwmw2 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Joyride and microphone
Robert Myers wrote: Is this a software issue or did my mic die? Things were working before I upgraded to Joyride. Anything I can do to check? You stated that it work in the ofw selftest so your hardware appears good. If this is a software issue are there libraries or versions I need to change? Run alsamixer from the command like and take a look at what the various settings are. Make sure the mic is unmuted and that the record levels are set properly and the v_refout is enabled (unmuted) and DC Mode disabled. When using alsamixer make sure you switch to the capture settings with the tab key to see the mic record level. In playback the mic control is not the microphone record control its the analog mixer control which is the level of mic input thats routed back the the speaker output. Muted and zero is the proper setting for that control. -- Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: PlayGo Patches/Commit access
On Sunday 20 July 2008 01:14:48 Edward Cherlin wrote: 2008/7/19 Andrés Ambrois [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello all! I've recently started learning python and sugar programming and, while trying to be useful in the meantime, have been tinkering around with the PlayGo activity. Thanks. I wrote to the American Go Association when we started this project, and they wrote back, We can't tell you how excited we are. They put a note in their e-mail newsletter about us. When we can take our software to one of their events, we can talk about getting assorted game records and go literature into a library content bundle. I was a 6-kyu player in my youth, according to the teachers in my school in Korea, where I was a Peace Corps Volunteer. I learned at a chess club when I was eleven. If I had had access to the literature available now, I am sure I would have made amateur dan. I am delighted to see children getting opportunities I didn't have back then, and being able to help get even more opportunities to way more children. I can read the Korean and Japanese go literature a little, and I can provide pointers to a lot of on-line resources. The Hip-Hop Chess Federation is also interested in our work, as is International Chess Master Josh Waitzkin, author of The Art of Learning. Walter Bender started discussions with his book and chess tutorial software publishers about Free licenses on versions of the book and software. I have literature and contacts for a great many more games. We aren't going to run out of programming exercises for a very long time. Very cool! Thanks for your support, and count on me bugging you when/if I get a chance to start working on the finer details :). I have a few patches that add basic scorekeeping, Do you mean scoring at the very end of a game, or scoring games in matches, or what? Can your code estimate who is ahead in a game? I added another text box on the bottom of the board that reads: Whites: X - Blacks: Y during the game. No end results yet. I haven't even added a Pass button XD. error messages (like: There already is a stone there!), and small code cleanup. Is there a ko rule implemented? Can we get all of the different rule sets as options (Japan, China, Korea, Ing)? Yup, I implemented basic Ko, and it works on single player. Sharing works, but it bypasses most of the rule-enforcing code, so it's not very nice, so I'll have to spend some time fixing that. -- -Andrés signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus
On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 13:28 -0400, Jim Gettys wrote: The bonobo-activation-server likes to chew up 40mb (of RAM), for doing almost nothing. ORBit doesn't appear to depend on any bonobo components. And we've successfully kicked bonobo out of the build. Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 1:55 PM, David Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: #6480 is fixed as of yesterday, should be in next joyride. Yeah. Since it was purely cosmetic I figured it might as well just wait to come through 'naturally'. It's not purely cosmetic: in my testing the bogus accounting affects the output of 'df', so that sugar thinks there is space available, even though writes will all fail due to insufficient space. I should have noted this more clearly in the bug. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:59 PM, Daniel Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 13:28 -0400, Jim Gettys wrote: The bonobo-activation-server likes to chew up 40mb (of RAM), for doing almost nothing. ORBit doesn't appear to depend on any bonobo components. And we've successfully kicked bonobo out of the build. It's bonobo that depends on ORBit, I guess the fear here is that, as bonobo, GConf might use a lot of memory because of ORBit. It should not be hard to measure. Marco ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 1:39 PM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A number of independent issues here: I have edited http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7125 to clarify the pieces of this bug and to make the component tasks (including #5317) more obvious. I have *not* attempted to set milestones or priorities; that's up to Greg/Michael/the component authors. Clearly some of these items are more critical that others; I agree with Deepak and dwmw2 in that it might be easier/better to fix the root allocation issue in 9.1 by simply moving to a better filesystem, since the slows are not the critical item for this bug. Anyway, please continue the discussion in trac for #7125 and its children. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus
In general, gnome is moving away from Bonobo/Orbit toward dbus based messaging. - Jim On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 20:09 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:59 PM, Daniel Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 13:28 -0400, Jim Gettys wrote: The bonobo-activation-server likes to chew up 40mb (of RAM), for doing almost nothing. ORBit doesn't appear to depend on any bonobo components. And we've successfully kicked bonobo out of the build. It's bonobo that depends on ORBit, I guess the fear here is that, as bonobo, GConf might use a lot of memory because of ORBit. It should not be hard to measure. Marco -- Jim Gettys [EMAIL PROTECTED] One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: PlayGo Patches/Commit access
On Monday 21 July 2008 08:50:53 Bastien wrote: Hi Andr�s! I'm also a Go player and I'd really love to see this activity improve. Is it already possible to share this activity so that children can play together from two different XOs? I was unable to get this working when I last tried. If this is not possible yet, I think this should be a top priority, more than making it possible to play against GnuGo. Yes, I don't own an XO, but I've tried running two sugar-jhbuild instances, and it works fine. Well, there's no turn enforcement (you can play anywhere anytime, even if it's the other guys turn), and you can't really tell if anyone connected until they place a stone. So its very rough around the edges. I also agree on the GnuGo priority. KISS first :). As for requests about getting commit access, I thought each activity had a maintainer with its email well advertized, but this is not the case. The maintainer's email could appear either on the activity wiki page and/or in the git repository. Sadly enough, there is no such contact information neither on http://wiki.laptop.org/go/PlayGo nor in the git repo: http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/PlayGo;a=summary (there is only Gerard J. Cerchio as a name...) Another good place to find the name of the maintainer would be http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities In other git repos, the Owner is often an email, which makes it straightforward for anyone to jump into a project. See for example http://repo.or.cz/ In gitorious.org or github.com, you can send messages to the owner: http://gitorious.org/projects/basecms http://github.com/agnathan/odf2logos/tree/master Looking forward to kibbitzing with people around here... The only mention I could find is on http://blog.circlesoft.com/ But if there ever was a maintainer, it's clear that the project is completely orphaned. -- -Andrés signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Jim Gettys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In general, gnome is moving away from Bonobo/Orbit toward dbus based messaging. Yeah, there is no plan yet (that I know of) to replace GConf with something dbus based though :( Marco ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [laptop.org #16813] joyride builds failing due to insufficient space
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 6:03 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sugar - 0.81.6-4.20080715git8137d5c37f.fc9.i386: Insufficient space in download directory /home/cscott/public_html/xo-1/streams/joyride/build2187-20080720_2235/devel_jffs2/install_root/var/cache/yum/olpc_development/packages to download It looks like xs-dev.laptop.org has plenty of space in the specified directory. After cleaning up the incomplete builds, it seems like the new problem is related to abiword-plugins: http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/xo-1/streams/joyride/build2188/devel_jffs2/build.log Transaction Check Error: file /usr/lib/abiword-2.6/plugins/libAbiCollab.so conflicts between attempted installs of libabiword-2.6.4-2.olpc3 and libabiword-plugins-2.6.0.svn20071127-2 file /usr/lib/abiword-2.6/plugins/libAbiOpenDocument.so conflicts between attempted installs of libabiword-2.6.4-2.olpc3 and libabiword-plugins-2.6.0.svn20071127-2 file /usr/lib/abiword-2.6/plugins/libLoadBindings.so conflicts between attempted installs of libabiword-2.6.4-2.olpc3 and libabiword-plugins-2.6.0.svn20071127-2 file /usr/share/abiword-2.6/glade/ap_UnixDialog_CollaborationJoin.glade conflicts between attempted installs of libabiword-2.6.4-2.olpc3 and libabiword-plugins-2.6.0.svn20071127-2 It looks like we branched libabiword for olpc3 but didn't branch libabiword-plugins? Does anyone on devel@ know who did that, and who can fix it? Thanks. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
On Jul 21 2008, at 13:55, Jim Gettys was caught saying: #6480 is fixed as of yesterday, should be in next joyride. I'll be re-doing Nokia's patches so that they go upstream if we still want them after 8.2 is out; however, I don't think the approach used by them actually helps us. We already have a very limited amount of storage space and reserving space for the root user just reduces what the end user can actually use. IIRC, the issue is the GC runs more and more often the closer to full you run. By reserving some space, you avoid the performance cliff. Since we expect to be running nearly full most of the time, it would seem to me avoiding this cliff is important. I can go ahead and apply the existing Nokia patch into the 8.2 kernel as a short-term measure but don't want to arbitrarilly choose a reservation size. Dave, do you have a suggestion as to what percentage should be reserved to keep the GC from going out of control? If not, we'll need to run some performance tests to find the sweet spot. ~Deepak -- Deepak Saxena [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 01:39:25PM -0400, C. Scott Ananian wrote: On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Jim Gettys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are two issues here that we should be sure to not intertwingle: 1) whatever behavior Sugar may have when low/out of space, during operation, or at boot time. A number of independent issues here: ... b) sugar should, ideally, start even if flash is full. It is currently failing when writing to ~olpc/.boot_time or some such, and crashing. In olpc-utils: usr/bin/olpc-session. This was done for performance testing work, and I am unaware of other references to the file. We can either comment out this stanza or remove it. I have attached patches to do either. Erik From 3527ba05f79f2a6543baa004a8b6fbf613dcd735 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:25:23 -0400 Subject: [PATCH] Stop writing ~/.boot_time at startup so we can improve our chances in NAND-fillup land. --- usr/bin/olpc-session |7 --- 1 files changed, 4 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) diff --git a/usr/bin/olpc-session b/usr/bin/olpc-session index c50b5f1..a38bd4b 100755 --- a/usr/bin/olpc-session +++ b/usr/bin/olpc-session @@ -60,9 +60,10 @@ xset -r 9 -r 220 -r 67 -r 68 -r 69 -r 70 -r 71 -r 72 -r 73 -r 74 -r 79 -r \ # source custom user session, if present [ -f $HOME/.xsession ] . $HOME/.xsession -# useful for performance work -mv $HOME/.boot_time $HOME/.boot_time.prev 2/dev/null -cat /proc/uptime $HOME/.boot_time +# Uncomment the following lines to save a record of our startup time. +# This is useful for performance work. +# mv $HOME/.boot_time $HOME/.boot_time.prev 2/dev/null +# cat /proc/uptime $HOME/.boot_time # finally, run sugar exec /usr/bin/ck-xinit-session /usr/bin/sugar -- 1.5.4.3 From 66cbebe1338dd9167d49b69cb71b4911676bb013 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:21:06 -0400 Subject: [PATCH] Stop writing ~/.boot_time at startup so we can improve our chances in NAND-fillup land. --- usr/bin/olpc-session |4 1 files changed, 0 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-) diff --git a/usr/bin/olpc-session b/usr/bin/olpc-session index c50b5f1..4a82845 100755 --- a/usr/bin/olpc-session +++ b/usr/bin/olpc-session @@ -60,9 +60,5 @@ xset -r 9 -r 220 -r 67 -r 68 -r 69 -r 70 -r 71 -r 72 -r 73 -r 74 -r 79 -r \ # source custom user session, if present [ -f $HOME/.xsession ] . $HOME/.xsession -# useful for performance work -mv $HOME/.boot_time $HOME/.boot_time.prev 2/dev/null -cat /proc/uptime $HOME/.boot_time - # finally, run sugar exec /usr/bin/ck-xinit-session /usr/bin/sugar -- 1.5.4.3 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: gnome-vfs2 / GConf2 / dbus
On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 20:25 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Jim Gettys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In general, gnome is moving away from Bonobo/Orbit toward dbus based messaging. Yeah, there is no plan yet (that I know of) to replace GConf with something dbus based though :( Dunno current plans... There does seem to be code http://developer.imendio.com/projects/misc/gconf-dbus - Jim Marco -- Jim Gettys [EMAIL PROTECTED] One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: b) sugar should, ideally, start even if flash is full. It is currently failing when writing to ~olpc/.boot_time or some such, and crashing. In olpc-utils: usr/bin/olpc-session. This was done for performance testing work, and I am unaware of other references to the file. We can either comment out this stanza or remove it. I have attached patches to do either. Erik, would you mind claiming #7586 and/or #7587? I don't think we need to remove the boot time code; we just need to make sure that the shell script doesn't exit if it fails. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Reminder: Tuesday Release Wednesday Software Meetings -- 2:00 PM in #olpc-meeting on irc.freenode.org
Dear world, We should meet tomorrow to discuss release questions and on Wednesday to discuss tickets. I will arrive fifteen minutes early for each of these meetings to finalize the agenda for each; however, here are some tentative items: - For TUESDAY: * General impressions * Resourcing issues * Miscellanea For WEDNESDAY: A review of blockers; present and proposed. - Finally, please reply with other items that you'd like to discuss or join me early at each of our meetings. As before, we'll record the minutes and the agenda in Gobby. Thanks, Michael ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: State of 8.2.0, July 21, 2008
On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 15:36 -0400, Michael Stone wrote: 7319 DBG jcardonaMulticast rx broken in joyride \ No wireless team members present; we'll need to get a separate update. I'll have fixed this before I leave tonight. Looks like a number of libertas patches were applied to stable but not testing. 7095 BLD dsd Installation of xol bundles from Journal 7523 PKG dsd Library index regeneration fails due to no XDG_DATA_DIRS 7532 PKG dsd Can't access installed content bundles \ Blocker for Peru's use case according to Wad + SJ. These are just awaiting new sugar packages and joyride builds 7294 COD erikb Camera not working \ work-around is already in joyride; Record-55 works; \ some regressions in Record are left. Not sure how high to prioritise this. 7353 DBG dgilmoreF-9 Bloat (currently 46M over target) \ had a nice discussion w/ abadger1999 (Toshio) suggestions: we need to be much more aggressive about filing bugs in bz.rh.c we need to include references to all bz.rh.c and all upstream bug reports in our tracking bugs. major goals: merge dsd's changes, kill Perl, and then re-evaluate. My changes from the last 2 weeks are now in joyride, leaving us 2mb over target. I slimmed down 2 more packages today (pam and xorg-x11-utils) which should bring us to the target. We also need to get these package forks into Fedora. I filed a load of RH bugzilla bugs about them today. Hopefully Dennis can find time to give them a quick glance, then I can find another Fedora dev to do the merging and committing. 6673,7466 ??? dsd?tamtam broken. \ i think TamTam+joyride is going to be a headache --- why? \ csound is broken, i just commented on the ticket \ need to speak w/ the tamtam folks: Jean Piche'. (ask jg for others) I have got TamTam working but audio performance is bad - stuttering etc. Something (one of the ALSA components?) has regressed quite majorly since F7. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
It sounds like you are working on the root causes. Tday I'm hanging out with the logistics/repair team, and the problem is worse than I thought this morning. They are being innundated with new problems caused by full disk (but weren't really aware that was the cause.) Since fixes in 8.2 won't help them for months, they need the short term fix (c). I will talk to Fiorella and her team about progress on that tmw. They also need a way of repairing these in the field. Mailing them back to LATU for reflashing is costing a fortune. Over 55% of their returns for repair are fixed by reflashing/reactivating. The problem with a teacher reflashing them are two: 1) The teachers don't have activation keys for the machines, and Uruguay doesn't want to start giving them out. 2) Currently, there is no monolithic image for Uruguay (I was unaware of this, but they say that first they reflash, then they activate, then they install the Uruguay specific scripts.) It seems like we should be able to produce a upgrade and customize key that does this in one step, and preserves the activation key for the laptop. Thoughts ? wad On Jul 21, 2008, at 2:39 PM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:52 PM, Jim Gettys [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are two issues here that we should be sure to not intertwingle: 1) whatever behavior Sugar may have when low/out of space, during operation, or at boot time. A number of independent issues here: a) the initscripts should be sure to unfreeze the dcon if/when X fails to start. This ensures that the system is obviously recoverable (you can recover by rebooting with the check key held down, but this is not obvious!). b) sugar should, ideally, start even if flash is full. It is currently failing when writing to ~olpc/.boot_time or some such, and crashing. c) once sugar starts, there should be a message indicating that the NAND is critically full. d) trying to save new content to the journal should also give an obvious message that the NAND is full. e) removing content from the journal should work even if NAND is full. I think (a), (b), and (e) are critical for 8.2. (c) is being handled independently by Uruguay, and (c) and (d) should be targets for 9.1. 2) JFFS2's behavior when the file system is almost full. When it gets almost full, it can spend all its time trying to garbage collect, and you can lose completely (the system sort of gets the slows, and grinds to a halt). As to 2), there are patches done by Nokia (deployed on the N800 and similar devices) that reserve some extra space and report out of space before the system gets the slows. These are in Dave's incoming queue to merge into JFFS2 the last I heard. I don't know if he's merged them. These are less critical, IMO. I have filled up NAND, and the slows are not debilitating. The issues above are. We should encourage Dave to fix this issue and the other known JFFS2 bugs (trac #6480, for instance) -- or get dsaxena to do so -- for 9.1. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 3:57 PM, John Watlington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems like we should be able to produce a upgrade and customize key that does this in one step, and preserves the activation key for the laptop. Yes. The issues in the past have just been coordination-related. I believe Emiliano is capable of generating a build image with the Uruguay scripts installed, which is the first half of the problem. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Project name : Conozco Uruguay is set up
Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:45:51 -0300, Gabriel Eirea [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Project name : Conozco Uruguay Done. Your tree is here: git+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/git/activities/conozco-uruguay Please follow instructions here for importing your project: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Importing_your_project Let us know if you have any problems with your tree. Happy hacking. Sayamindu will please assist in setting up the pootle translation, thanks! Cheers, -- Henry Edward Hardy [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: State of 8.2.0, July 21, 2008
My changes from the last 2 weeks are now in joyride, leaving us 2mb over target. I slimmed down 2 more packages today (pam and xorg-x11-utils) which should bring us to the target. We also need to get these package forks into Fedora. I filed a load of RH bugzilla bugs about them today. Hopefully Dennis can find time to give them a quick glance, then I can find another Fedora dev to do the merging and committing. remove mesa-libGL* and mesa-dri* stuff and similar. mesa does not work since GLX is not compiled into X, at least on 2181. (it does work if I compile it independently and gives me 3 FPS) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: PlayGo Patches/Commit access
Andr�s Ambrois [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, I don't own an XO, but I've tried running two sugar-jhbuild instances, and it works fine. Well, there's no turn enforcement (you can play anywhere anytime, even if it's the other guys turn), and you can't really tell if anyone connected until they place a stone. So its very rough around the edges. Ok, good to know things are there and only need improvement. I'm in the process of learning Python, so maybe I can help at some point. Looking forward to kibbitzing with people around here... The only mention I could find is on http://blog.circlesoft.com/ But if there ever was a maintainer, it's clear that the project is completely orphaned. That is a pity, but even more problematic is the fact that one has to spend time in order to discover it! Really, I'd love to see the emails of the maintainers on the git projects webpage. -- Bastien ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Java and Watch-Listen nonfree
Hi, I am looking for the right rpms to install for the Java plugin java-1.6.0-openjdk-plugin For a G1G1 XO-1 build 703, previously advertised method did not work; Also trying to locate watch-listen-nonfree-14.xo The wiki says download it from Helix site, it's not there, the Hleix Community mailing list did not reply David Leeming Honiara, Solomon Islands -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tomeu Vizoso Sent: Friday, 18 July 2008 7:23 a.m. To: David Leeming Subject: Re: Java On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:00 PM, David Leeming [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, No I am using G1G1 XO-1s with build 703 update 1, ready for deployments in the Pacific Islands region. I am just setting up server and 75 laptops for 3 school trials here and it would be great to have java working! Oops, sorry, then that's F7 based and won't be so easy. We need to find the right rpms to install, can you ask in the mailing list? Haven't tried that myself. Tomorrow can try a bit more if you still need it. Good luck, Tomeu As mentioned, the installation procedure I tried to follow did not work. I also tried it on 2 B4s (with 703) but no different - java did not install. The Yum installation reported no package available, nothing to do. If I knew exactly which rpm to download and where to get it from, I could try an offline install using a flash drive. Can you advise? David Leeming OLPC Coordinator, SPC and Technical Advisor, People First Network Honiara, Solomon Islands -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tomeu Vizoso Sent: Thursday, 17 July 2008 8:34 p.m. To: David Leeming Subject: Re: Java On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:45 PM, David Leeming [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi again Sorry I am a bit slow, only a beginner with Linux really. I am more into the whole project deployment side. Can you explain how you did what you did in easy steps for a beginner? What I did was take an XO with an Internet connection and use the command below yum install java-1.6.0-openjdk-plugin I just did that. I was assuming you are on joyride, you aren't? If not, which build version do you plan to deploy? Regards, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: PlayGo Patches/Commit access
Hi Andrés! I'm also a Go player and I'd really love to see this activity improve. Is it already possible to share this activity so that children can play together from two different XOs? I was unable to get this working when I last tried. If this is not possible yet, I think this should be a top priority, more than making it possible to play against GnuGo. As for requests about getting commit access, I thought each activity had a maintainer with its email well advertized, but this is not the case. The maintainer's email could appear either on the activity wiki page and/or in the git repository. Sadly enough, there is no such contact information neither on http://wiki.laptop.org/go/PlayGo nor in the git repo: http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/PlayGo;a=summary (there is only Gerard J. Cerchio as a name...) Another good place to find the name of the maintainer would be http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities In other git repos, the Owner is often an email, which makes it straightforward for anyone to jump into a project. See for example http://repo.or.cz/ In gitorious.org or github.com, you can send messages to the owner: http://gitorious.org/projects/basecms http://github.com/agnathan/odf2logos/tree/master Looking forward to kibbitzing with people around here! -- Bastien ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: running speech-dispatcher as non-root using setuid on XO and accompanying security issues
HG == Hemant Goyal [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: HG Hi, What is the need for speech-dispatcher to run as root? Is it HG possible to run it as non-root? We need to modify the HG speechd.conf files from a non-root program and as such run the HG speech-dispatcher daemon with non-root privileges. Sure. SD can runs as root or as any other user which has access on audio. Every user has own configuration in .speech-dispatcher directory or if there no, then it search in /etc/speech-dispatcher -- Jan Buchal Tel: (00420) 24 24 86 008 Mob: (00420) 608023021 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
They are being innundated with new problems caused by full disk (but weren't really aware that was the cause.) Since fixes in 8.2 won't help them for months, they need the short term fix (c). Mitch added Forth words to delete files from the NAND flash, after we had similar troubles after Christmas (bug #5744, #5719, #5317): Changed 7 months ago by [EMAIL PROTECTED] OFW q2d07c and later have the ability to delete files from the JFFS2 filesystem, so long as there is at least one empty page for storing the deletion node. ok dir n:\home\olpc\.sugar\default\data\ ok rm n:\home\olpc\.sugar\default\data\XXX where XXX is the name of the file you want to delete. [I don't know how often there will be no empty page for the deletion node - I suspect we'll find out.] I suggest that OLPC figure out a short list of reasonably large files that we supply on NAND, but which aren't actually needed by most students (perhaps a language translation for a language they don't use; or an activity binary that they can easily reinstall later). Include that list along with instructions on how to remove one or more of these files when they get into this jam. Of course, getting to Forth requires a normal computer (i.e. a developer key, which every child is entitled to, but apparently no children actually get). You can get developer keys, even from a crashed XO that won't boot NAND, using a collector key, web access, and a lot of patience. Somebody who had the sooper secret OLPC script-signing key could write a Forth script that field teachers could run on crashed lockdown XO's, which would put them into Forth and let them type. (Perhaps if you believe deeply in making security expensive, it can check to see if the NAND is more than 95% full, and only let them type if so. Or it can provide a menu of files for deletion. Or it can limit itself in any number of ways, making it less useful but more quote-unquote safe) John ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
I should've said that just removing a couple of useless or easily replaced files -- rather than reflashing -- means that the kids don't lose all their work when the NAND fills up. John ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: NAND out of space crash
On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 10:29 -0700, Deepak Saxena wrote: I can go ahead and apply the existing Nokia patch into the 8.2 kernel as a short-term measure but don't want to arbitrarilly choose a reservation size. Dave, do you have a suggestion as to what percentage should be reserved to keep the GC from going out of control? If not, we'll need to run some performance tests to find the sweet spot. I don't have a suggestion. But I'd prefer not to apply the overly complex patch from Artem -- just add a 'root only' threshold and hard-code it for now (we should really expose _all_ the thresholds in sysfs). -- dwmw2 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
For review: NAND out of space patch.
Hi,
Here's a small Python script that acts as a final fail-safe in the event
that the datastore is full and we can't boot because of it, by deleting
datastore files largest-first until we cross a threshold of how much
free space is enough. It could be incorporated into the Python init
process. (See #7591 for more detail.)
Caveats:
* Deleting a file from the datastore doesn't delete its entry in the
index. Resuming a Journal entry with no corresponding file usually
produces a blank document in the activity being resumed.
* This doesn't try anything outside of the datastore, such as the
excellent suggestion of identifying unnecessary large files in the
build that could be deleted. We should of course try that first.
Please review.
- Chris.
#!/usr/bin/env python
#
# failsafe.py: If the NAND doesn't have enough free space, delete datastore
objects
# until it does. This doesn't modify the datastore's index.
# Author: Chris Ball [EMAIL PROTECTED]
import os, sys, statvfs, subprocess
THRESHOLD = 1024 * 50 # 50MB
PATH = /home/olpc/.sugar/default/datastore/store/*-*
def main():
# First, check to see whether we have enough free space.
if find_freespace() THRESHOLD:
print Not enough disk space.
lines = os.popen(du -s %s % PATH).readlines()
filesizes = [line.split('\t') for line in lines]
for file in filesizes:
file[0] = int(file[0]) # size
file[1] = file[1].rstrip() # path
filesizes.sort()
filelist = [file[1] for file in filesizes]
while find_freespace() THRESHOLD and len(filelist) 0:
delete_file(filelist.pop())
def find_freespace():
# Determine free space on /.
stat = os.statvfs(/)
freebytes = stat[statvfs.F_BSIZE] * stat[statvfs.F_BAVAIL]
freekbytes = freebytes / 1024
return freekbytes
def delete_file(file):
# Delete a single file.
print Deleting + file
try:
os.remove(file)
except os.error:
print Couldn't delete + file
def reboot():
os.popen(reboot)
main()
reboot()
--
Chris Ball [EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
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Re: For review: NAND out of space patch.
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008, Chris Ball wrote: Hi, Here's a small Python script that acts as a final fail-safe in the event that the datastore is full and we can't boot because of it, by deleting datastore files largest-first until we cross a threshold of how much free space is enough. It could be incorporated into the Python init process. (See #7591 for more detail.) Caveats: * Deleting a file from the datastore doesn't delete its entry in the index. Resuming a Journal entry with no corresponding file usually produces a blank document in the activity being resumed. * This doesn't try anything outside of the datastore, such as the excellent suggestion of identifying unnecessary large files in the build that could be deleted. We should of course try that first. Please review. I'll go on record repeating the comments made earlier. deleting the students largest file is probably deleting their most important work. deleting anything the student made should be a last resort (and should probably give the student the option of what to delete in the process). think how devestating it will be to kids to have the term paper they've worked on for weeks/months disappear on thembecouse they took one to many snapshots, or they played one to many games and triggered the largest object getting deleted with no warning. there are probably things in the journal that can be nuked, becouse they can either be re-created (any cached web pages), or are just a record of what was done (terminal activities for example), but don't delete anything of the students without getting confirmation of what to delete first. David Lang ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: For review: NAND out of space patch.
Hi, I'll go on record repeating the comments made earlier. deleting the students largest file is probably deleting their most important work. Of course, it should be only a last resort; I tried to make that clear. I hope that in 8.2 we'll fix the problem in general, in a way that prompts for which files to delete. This patch would be an interim workaround for deployments to ameliorate the current problem of non-booting laptops, and a failsafe for any edgecases we miss in 8.2. there are probably things in the journal that can be nuked, becouse they can either be re-created (any cached web pages), or are just a record of what was done (terminal activities for example), but don't delete anything of the students without getting confirmation of what to delete first. As long as Sugar fails to boot with disk full, I don't know how I can search the datastore in that way. We don't have the full query interface available from the initrd. - Chris. -- Chris Ball [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] Missing XOs in neighbourhood view using XS
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 10:37 AM, David Leeming [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Trying out the school server for the first time at a training session in a Solomon Islands deployment. With 23 trainee teachers, using G1G1 XO-1 laptops with build 703 (update 1). All registered successfully and all able to connect to and access the server. Are you using an active antenna (AA) or an access point (AP) there? Ah, I see below it is an AA. If you have an AP, can I suggest you try that? It seemed to be working 100% but then we started noticing that it was not unusual to be missing some XOs on the neighbourhood view. This was apparent with an exercise where people in groups of 4-5 tried to locate each other and make friends, in order to manage sharing in smaller groups. Almost all of the groups could not locate all of the other members of their group. It would be interesting to hear what the missing laptops were reporting from the olpc-netstatus command. So (a) should I expect all the other laptops to be visible? And (b) what is the maximum number of XOs per server? With AAs and laptops in a dense setup (meaning close together) we are seeing some trouble somewhere in the 10-20 machines range unfortunately.On the other hand, if the machines that appeared to be missing still could access the internet, then something else is afoot. Of course, this is stuff we are working on. m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
