Re: [SailfishDevel] Is support for commercial apps a TABOO subject?
Be happy it did not happen; there is now a chance to be the first in line when the gates open and sail onwards with the first flood ;-) On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 5:52 PM, Bernd Wachter wrote: > Mikael Hermansson writes: > > > For example more libs should be allowed. > > We've been working on that the whole time, and we're getting closer to > being able to allow more libs. What's currently missing (and what's > being worked on) is a way to identify applications using new libraries, > and hide them from devices running older versions of the operating > system. > > Once that is in place it'll be a lot easier and faster for us to add new > libraries (given they have a reasonably stable API) to the platform. > > > But about payment how to avoid pirate copying? Would Jolla be > responsible if > > your work is pirated since SailfishOS has no copy protection because of > its > > nature of "open platform". Would endusers stop use Jolla if they start > > implement copyprotection or similar silly solutions? > > "Open platform" and "copy protection" are not mutually exclusive. What > you can't do on an open platform is locking the whole thing down and > trying to avoid piracy by just not giving the users any rights. You > still can do per application copy protection, though. As a side note, > for many applications device copyprotection becomes more and more > irrelevant, due to the move to in-app purchases and serverside > verification. > > Bernd > > ___ > SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list > ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] Is support for commercial apps a TABOO subject?
Mikael Hermansson writes: > For example more libs should be allowed. We've been working on that the whole time, and we're getting closer to being able to allow more libs. What's currently missing (and what's being worked on) is a way to identify applications using new libraries, and hide them from devices running older versions of the operating system. Once that is in place it'll be a lot easier and faster for us to add new libraries (given they have a reasonably stable API) to the platform. > But about payment how to avoid pirate copying? Would Jolla be responsible if > your work is pirated since SailfishOS has no copy protection because of its > nature of "open platform". Would endusers stop use Jolla if they start > implement copyprotection or similar silly solutions? "Open platform" and "copy protection" are not mutually exclusive. What you can't do on an open platform is locking the whole thing down and trying to avoid piracy by just not giving the users any rights. You still can do per application copy protection, though. As a side note, for many applications device copyprotection becomes more and more irrelevant, due to the move to in-app purchases and serverside verification. Bernd ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
[SailfishDevel] [hotfix] MMS changes for Paarlampi (1.0.5.19)
Hi all, we are releasing a hotfix to eliminate some of the MMS issues seen in 1.0.5.16 today. The issues fixed include changes to decoding of some MMS fields, enhancing interoperability with certain providers, better input validation of user provided settings and updates to the built-in provider database. For comments, please go to together, as usual: https://together.jolla.com/question/40658/hotfix-mms-changes-for-paarlampi-10519/ More detailed changelog for technically interested: - [mms_codec] Fixed decoding of the From field - [mms_codec] Fixed decoding of address fields - [mms_codec] Replaced Content-Disposition:Inline with Attachment - [mms-lib] Changed default User-Agent to "Mozilla/5.0 (Sailfish; Jolla)" - [mms-ofono] Remove leaving and trailing spaces from the URLs - [mbpi] Cleaned up MMS settings for Orange France - [mbpi] MMS settings for Drei (Austria) - [mbpi] MMS settings for Etisalat (UAE) - [mbpi] Updated MMS settings for MTel (Bulgaria) - [mbpi] Remove spaces from URLs Bernd ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] Is support for commercial apps a TABOO subject?
As an indie developer who does this for hobby and not as my main income I want to be able to sell my work and not give it for free. At the same time I don't want to be paid directly, I do not want to get involved with taxes. Different countries have different VAT percentages, also if I want to handle the so called IRS (the name depends on the country) there is a lot of trouble at least here in Greece. Even before I started developing for various mobile platforms I visited personally all the local IRS departments in my city to ask how to handle the VAT and I had with me the contracts you sign with each company (RIM, Google, HP for webOS, Samsung for badaOS etc) and they couldn't give me an answer. Then I called the Ministry of Finance and had sent them the contracts and it took them more than a year before giving me an answer. Even now almost 4 years later they still send me amendments with asterisks that they aren't certain if some aspects of them are valid or not. So for indie developers like me at least here in Greece direct payment is nightmare. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] Is support for commercial apps a TABOO subject?
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 09:33:22AM +0200, tw_bolek wrote: [...] > So my question is: is this some kind of taboo subject, or something of as > little importance that for over 4 months now no Jollan has said A WORD about > it despite numerous requests? > > A couple of my friends already gave up after waiting so long for even just > any information, and I must say that I'm slowly losing hope, too. We all > understand and are aware of the enormous job Jolla has been doing, so we're > asking for just INFORMATION about the progress, even just if AT ALL there are > any plans to do it in a foreseeable future, and if so then knowing even just > as little as if it will take a month or half a year would be all we need... There will be support for commercial apps and those will have copy protection. This was mentioned bt Rainisto long ago already. I cannot give more info nor can I give an ETA for that though :/ Cheers, ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] Is support for commercial apps a TABOO subject?
Hi, 2014-04-24 13:05 GMT+02:00, Mikael Hermansson : > But about payment how to avoid pirate copying? Would Jolla be responsible if > > your work is pirated since SailfishOS has no copy protection because of its > > nature of "open platform". Would endusers stop use Jolla if they start > implement copyprotection or similar silly solutions? this is a valid point, and you basically answered the question yourself already. The bits and pieces for payment support are not there yet. But for the time being, I suppose no one would stop you from going the shareware way with unlocking features via a paid registration key directly from the author (cryptographically tied to the IMEI, for example). Martin ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] Is support for commercial apps a TABOO subject?
what are you talking about? payment support will be added to harbour when ready. there are no "avoid plans" 24.04.2014 17:05, Mikael Hermansson пишет: I think it would be very wrong strategy to "avoid" payment apps. But there probadly is more important stuff in the pipe from Jolla side to fix before implement payment. For example more libs should be allowed. But about payment how to avoid pirate copying? Would Jolla be responsible if your work is pirated since SailfishOS has no copy protection because of its nature of "open platform". Would endusers stop use Jolla if they start implement copyprotection or similar silly solutions? I personally dislike install any app that is not open sourced or "copy protected" or even SPAM applications... It is just plain wrong. But I still willing pay for good open apps. But there must be simple way for payment. But it's probadly very hard setup generic payment solution since so many different options how to pay. I personally dislike paypal but some may prefer that. Most of us dislike pay with Cards. And some wants bitcoins and so on. Not a simple task. A better solution would be to just add some way to pay the direcly to develop and then the developer decide what he prefer for payment options. On Thursday, April 24, 2014 09:33:22 tw_bolek wrote: On April 4 Duncan Waugh wrote: " [...] support commercial applications. Is there any news on when this is planned for integration?" No answer. On April 17 Marcin M. wrote: "Is there any estimated time when paid apps will be allowed to Harbour?" No answer. There are also a number of such topics on together.jolla com (and some of them very popular, within the top 30-40 most voted for topics) requesting any information about plans to introduce support for paid applications in the Jolla store. None of them ever replied or commented on by anyone from Jolla. So my question is: is this some kind of taboo subject, or something of as little importance that for over 4 months now no Jollan has said A WORD about it despite numerous requests? A couple of my friends already gave up after waiting so long for even just any information, and I must say that I'm slowly losing hope, too. We all understand and are aware of the enormous job Jolla has been doing, so we're asking for just INFORMATION about the progress, even just if AT ALL there are any plans to do it in a foreseeable future, and if so then knowing even just as little as if it will take a month or half a year would be all we need... Bolek ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] Is support for commercial apps a TABOO subject?
I think it would be very wrong strategy to "avoid" payment apps. But there probadly is more important stuff in the pipe from Jolla side to fix before implement payment. For example more libs should be allowed. But about payment how to avoid pirate copying? Would Jolla be responsible if your work is pirated since SailfishOS has no copy protection because of its nature of "open platform". Would endusers stop use Jolla if they start implement copyprotection or similar silly solutions? I personally dislike install any app that is not open sourced or "copy protected" or even SPAM applications... It is just plain wrong. But I still willing pay for good open apps. But there must be simple way for payment. But it's probadly very hard setup generic payment solution since so many different options how to pay. I personally dislike paypal but some may prefer that. Most of us dislike pay with Cards. And some wants bitcoins and so on. Not a simple task. A better solution would be to just add some way to pay the direcly to develop and then the developer decide what he prefer for payment options. On Thursday, April 24, 2014 09:33:22 tw_bolek wrote: > On April 4 Duncan Waugh wrote: > > " [...] support commercial applications. Is there any news on when this is > planned for integration?" > > No answer. > > On April 17 Marcin M. wrote: > > "Is there any estimated time when paid apps will be allowed to Harbour?" > > No answer. > > There are also a number of such topics on together.jolla com (and some of > them very popular, within the top 30-40 most voted for topics) requesting > any information about plans to introduce support for paid applications in > the Jolla store. > > None of them ever replied or commented on by anyone from Jolla. > > > So my question is: is this some kind of taboo subject, or something of as > little importance that for over 4 months now no Jollan has said A WORD > about it despite numerous requests? > > A couple of my friends already gave up after waiting so long for even just > any information, and I must say that I'm slowly losing hope, too. We all > understand and are aware of the enormous job Jolla has been doing, so we're > asking for just INFORMATION about the progress, even just if AT ALL there > are any plans to do it in a foreseeable future, and if so then knowing even > just as little as if it will take a month or half a year would be all we > need... > > Bolek > ___ > SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list -- I am Software engineer and Open Source geek: Professional experience in Qt/QML, C++, C, Python, GIT, Linux on embedded. Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/mikecomputing Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mikael-hermansson/30/95b/204 Diaspora: https://diasp.eu/u/mike7b4 Phone: +46732546542 ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] Path to main qml in resource file - not found whatever I try
Thomas Perl wrote: > Why do you want to use Qt Resources instead of deploying the files to > the filesystem? To hide SOME code from those who like to just copy&paste rather than ask for permission or credit the source. Not from everyone, just from those "copy&pasters". Some time ago I had my entire QML application copied this way and released in Nokia store with just some minor things changed, and since then I've been using resources. I know that it's a poor protection as it is just compression so it can be easily decompressed and extracted, but I guess it is enough for those who copy stuff like this, as it's usually people who can't code too much themselves (or else they wouldn't need to copy simple stuff), so it is doubtful that they'd know how to decompress and extract from the binary. And even if they know, at least it takes some more effort than Ctrl+C / Ctrl+V - I mean if they don't bother to contact the author and ask, at least they'll need to spend time on extracting it from resource, which for me is a sufficient trade off ;-) I know that better protection solutions exist, but I do not have time (nor actually the need) to use them And, like you mentioned, I'm not sure if I'd like the idea of people being able to modify the app on the fly while it still shows my name as an author... B. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] Path to main qml in resource file - not found whatever I try
Thomas Perl wrote: > Why do you want to use Qt Resources instead of deploying the files to > the filesystem? To "hide" some of QML code away from prying eyes. Of course, I know that it's a very poor protection as it is just compression so everything can be easily extracted, but that's actually all I need. I do not intend to protect the code from anyone, just from those "copy&pasters" who take whole portions of other people's projects (or even whole applications) and use as their own without crediting the source or contacting the author and just asking. Some time ago I had my entire QML app copied this way and released in Nokia store (with just some colors changed) and since then I use resources. People who copy others' work this way usually can't code too much themselves (and that's why they copy) so they usually don't know how to extract from the resource, either. And even if they know, at least it takes some effort (surely more than just copying a .qml file) - I mean if they don't have time to contact the author and just ask for permission then at least they'll spend that t ime on extracting and decompressing from the resource :-) That's my goal - to force such people to make some more effort than Ctrl+C / Ctrl+V ;-) It enhances their skills, so it's quite an educational attempt - maybe one day they'll start writing apps themselves. That's why I use Qt resource rather than some more sophisticated protection - for the type of persons I want to protect it against it is quite sufficient, and from other types of people I do not need to protect it, nor do I have time to do it. B. ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] Is support for commercial apps a TABOO subject?
:-) verry happy to hear this I'll start porting my games, verify they work on my device and try to wait patiently :-) On 24 April 2014 10:47, Thomas Perl wrote: > On 2014-04-24 09:38, Iosif Hamlatzis wrote: > >> May I request also that the SDL2 family libraries be allowed? >> >> VERY VERY useful for games >> >> pleaseee! >> > > Yes this is coming (as well as Python 3 QML Plugin support): > https://github.com/sailfish-sdk/sdk-harbour-rpmvalidator/pull/21 > https://github.com/sailfish-sdk/sdk-harbour-rpmvalidator/pull/20 > > It "only" needs some changes on the server side to basically not show > SDL2-using apps to clients with older OS versions (as those OS versions > don't contain a good enough version of SDL2 - otherwise your app would > appear as downloadable there and not work, and users would be unhappy). > > This is being worked on at the moment, but might still take a little time. > > Once the server side changes are done, SDL2 and Python 3 (and some other > APIs once they are stabilized) will be allowed. > > > HTH :) > Thomas > > ___ > SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list > ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] Is support for commercial apps a TABOO subject?
On 2014-04-24 09:38, Iosif Hamlatzis wrote: May I request also that the SDL2 family libraries be allowed? VERY VERY useful for games pleaseee! Yes this is coming (as well as Python 3 QML Plugin support): https://github.com/sailfish-sdk/sdk-harbour-rpmvalidator/pull/21 https://github.com/sailfish-sdk/sdk-harbour-rpmvalidator/pull/20 It "only" needs some changes on the server side to basically not show SDL2-using apps to clients with older OS versions (as those OS versions don't contain a good enough version of SDL2 - otherwise your app would appear as downloadable there and not work, and users would be unhappy). This is being worked on at the moment, but might still take a little time. Once the server side changes are done, SDL2 and Python 3 (and some other APIs once they are stabilized) will be allowed. HTH :) Thomas ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] Is support for commercial apps a TABOO subject?
May I request also that the SDL2 family libraries be allowed? VERY VERY useful for games pleaseee! ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] rcc -threshold option doesn't work?
> I believe the problem may be that the Makefile is recreated every time > you press build because of limitations in the qt creator / virtual > machine integration. You could try adding QMAKE_RESOURCE_FLAGS to your > "spec" file in a suitable place. > > QMAKE_RESOURCE_FLAGS += -threshold 0 -compress 9 Hi Juha, thank you for your reply. Makefile is no longer recreated after I disabled "Always build before deploying" in QtCreator's settings. I have other manual modifications in Makefile (e.g. install_qml commented out to prevent the inclusion of qml folder in rpm) and they all remain intact (and affect the build) and so the threshold option also stays there, just doesn't seem to have any effect whatsoever. I will try your .spec file modification then BR, Bolek ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] Is support for commercial apps a TABOO subject?
AFAIK all upcoming harbour features are ASAP and to ETA in roadmap. 24.04.2014 13:33, tw_bolek пишет: On April 4 Duncan Waugh wrote: " [...] support commercial applications. Is there any news on when this is planned for integration?" No answer. On April 17 Marcin M. wrote: "Is there any estimated time when paid apps will be allowed to Harbour?" No answer. There are also a number of such topics on together.jolla com (and some of them very popular, within the top 30-40 most voted for topics) requesting any information about plans to introduce support for paid applications in the Jolla store. None of them ever replied or commented on by anyone from Jolla. So my question is: is this some kind of taboo subject, or something of as little importance that for over 4 months now no Jollan has said A WORD about it despite numerous requests? A couple of my friends already gave up after waiting so long for even just any information, and I must say that I'm slowly losing hope, too. We all understand and are aware of the enormous job Jolla has been doing, so we're asking for just INFORMATION about the progress, even just if AT ALL there are any plans to do it in a foreseeable future, and if so then knowing even just as little as if it will take a month or half a year would be all we need... Bolek ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
[SailfishDevel] Is support for commercial apps a TABOO subject?
On April 4 Duncan Waugh wrote: " [...] support commercial applications. Is there any news on when this is planned for integration?" No answer. On April 17 Marcin M. wrote: "Is there any estimated time when paid apps will be allowed to Harbour?" No answer. There are also a number of such topics on together.jolla com (and some of them very popular, within the top 30-40 most voted for topics) requesting any information about plans to introduce support for paid applications in the Jolla store. None of them ever replied or commented on by anyone from Jolla. So my question is: is this some kind of taboo subject, or something of as little importance that for over 4 months now no Jollan has said A WORD about it despite numerous requests? A couple of my friends already gave up after waiting so long for even just any information, and I must say that I'm slowly losing hope, too. We all understand and are aware of the enormous job Jolla has been doing, so we're asking for just INFORMATION about the progress, even just if AT ALL there are any plans to do it in a foreseeable future, and if so then knowing even just as little as if it will take a month or half a year would be all we need... Bolek ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
Re: [SailfishDevel] rcc -threshold option doesn't work?
On 24.04.2014 07:48, tw_bolek wrote: Hello guys, Has anyone managed to get the -threshold option of rcc (resource compiler) to work? By default the threshold is quite high and leaves many files uncompressed in the resource, so I usually change it to much lower threshold. It used to work fine on Symbian and Harmattan, it does work on BB10, but on Sailfish OS adding e.g. -threshold 2 to rcc command in Makefile (to get threshold level of 2%) doesn't seem to have any result whatsoever - all the files remain uncompressed while with such a very low threshold everything should be compressed... Also tried other values, e.g. 10, to no avail. I believe the problem may be that the Makefile is recreated every time you press build because of limitations in the qt creator / virtual machine integration. You could try adding QMAKE_RESOURCE_FLAGS to your "spec" file in a suitable place. QMAKE_RESOURCE_FLAGS += -threshold 0 -compress 9 That example is from [1]. [1] http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5/qmake-variable-reference.html Best regards, Juha ___ SailfishOS.org Devel mailing list
