Re: New version soon?
Fra: Hans Breuer [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 22:21 01.05.01 +0200, Claus Sørensen - ProjectHouse wrote: From: Hans Breuer [EMAIL PROTECTED] One of the main engines in Open Source/Free Softeware projects is release often so you don't have these huge gaps between releases. Wow, what a deep insight. I've always thought the main engine in Free Software projects are motivated developers. Why should one do something for free if he could as well earn money with it ? I said one of... And I said *THE* ... For _some_ developers seeing the benefit from their work in releases is a motivating factor. An encourage them to develop more because they can see users using it. Actually I am one of those users and I like version 0.86 (you have all done a great job) but I wanted more so I looked for a new version and found none but saw that many of the features I would like was already there - in the CVS-tree which I downloaded but couldn't compile using the guidelines. I thought that I was not the only one and asked the list for road map for the next release without any answers. Then I suggest some things to be done to reach the next release in a short time. IMO you can't tell, what's fun for me ... Of course not. I know my limitations - and I am not a very skilled programmer (I can read some C and shell scripts), so I'm trying to guide you so the time for 0.87 will not be too far away. Thanks, that's defenetly *not* required, at least for me. If you want to tell other people what they should do, I suggest: Pay them or improve your authority otherwise. Guide was not the right word more making suggestions. So it is not about what they should do but could do. And then I hope for baby steps in the future. It is easier to make small changes and bugfixes, and then release again than mayor steps. Maybe Dia should use two tracks like Linux: - developer track where all the new features are tested - stable track where all the stable features Maybe you should first read the mailing list archives before repeating discussions ... Why didn't you tell the same to Fernando Lozano? Do I really have to read more than 2400 postings before I can say anything on this list? Why don't you point me to the discussion (give me the subject) because I couldn't find any discussion concerning two tracks. There is no FAQ for the list so I can see what is already been asked about and answered. Actually the short description for the list say: If you want to help out with Dia or discuss it's development I'm not (only) complaining - I'm trying to help. Thanks, but no thanks. If you want to help: report bugs, write documentation, answers FAQs on the mailing list, but IMO never ever try to lead free (as in free bear, which you drink and someone else has to pay:) source developers. I am not trying to leading at all - I just make some suggestions. But the maintainer have some level of leader authority. And if you don't like his leadership you can find another project, find another leader, drop free developing or fork. Then reason we aren't seeing a release is that our maintainer, James Henstridge, seems to have slunk away somewhere. goto start_of_mail; I read is as you are the new maintainer - or am I wrong. You are, but it isn't surprising, is it? Ok - then I don't understand what you answer on why James is slunk away is. I am maintainer of the win32 port of Dia and actually I'm the coder as well :) Great - keep up the good work - I have some of my friend trying it out and they are quite happy about it. The most enjoyable greetings Claus Sorensen K L I D Chairman --Mobile: +45 20 94 62 34 Noddelunden 110 Commercial Linux Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DK-2765 Smorum Association of Denmark Web:www.klid.dk
Re: New version soon?
Can't this argument go offline now? -- Karim Nassar On Thu, 3 May 2001, Claus [UNKNOWN] Sørensen - Chairman of KLID wrote: Fra: Hans Breuer [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 22:21 01.05.01 +0200, Claus Sørensen - ProjectHouse wrote: From: Hans Breuer [EMAIL PROTECTED] One of the main engines in Open Source/Free Softeware projects is release often so you don't have these huge gaps between releases. Wow, what a deep insight. I've always thought the main engine in Free Software projects are motivated developers. Why should one do something for free if he could as well earn money with it ? I said one of... And I said *THE* ... For _some_ developers seeing the benefit from their work in releases is a motivating factor. An encourage them to develop more because they can see users using it. Actually I am one of those users and I like version 0.86 (you have all done a great job) but I wanted more so I looked for a new version and found none but saw that many of the features I would like was already there - in the CVS-tree which I downloaded but couldn't compile using the guidelines. I thought that I was not the only one and asked the list for road map for the next release without any answers. Then I suggest some things to be done to reach the next release in a short time. IMO you can't tell, what's fun for me ... Of course not. I know my limitations - and I am not a very skilled programmer (I can read some C and shell scripts), so I'm trying to guide you so the time for 0.87 will not be too far away. Thanks, that's defenetly *not* required, at least for me. If you want to tell other people what they should do, I suggest: Pay them or improve your authority otherwise. Guide was not the right word more making suggestions. So it is not about what they should do but could do. And then I hope for baby steps in the future. It is easier to make small changes and bugfixes, and then release again than mayor steps. Maybe Dia should use two tracks like Linux: - developer track where all the new features are tested - stable track where all the stable features Maybe you should first read the mailing list archives before repeating discussions ... Why didn't you tell the same to Fernando Lozano? Do I really have to read more than 2400 postings before I can say anything on this list? Why don't you point me to the discussion (give me the subject) because I couldn't find any discussion concerning two tracks. There is no FAQ for the list so I can see what is already been asked about and answered. Actually the short description for the list say: If you want to help out with Dia or discuss it's development I'm not (only) complaining - I'm trying to help. Thanks, but no thanks. If you want to help: report bugs, write documentation, answers FAQs on the mailing list, but IMO never ever try to lead free (as in free bear, which you drink and someone else has to pay:) source developers. I am not trying to leading at all - I just make some suggestions. But the maintainer have some level of leader authority. And if you don't like his leadership you can find another project, find another leader, drop free developing or fork. Then reason we aren't seeing a release is that our maintainer, James Henstridge, seems to have slunk away somewhere. goto start_of_mail; I read is as you are the new maintainer - or am I wrong. You are, but it isn't surprising, is it? Ok - then I don't understand what you answer on why James is slunk away is. I am maintainer of the win32 port of Dia and actually I'm the coder as well :) Great - keep up the good work - I have some of my friend trying it out and they are quite happy about it. The most enjoyable greetings Claus Sorensen K L I D Chairman --Mobile: +45 20 94 62 34 Noddelunden 110 Commercial Linux Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DK-2765 Smorum Association of Denmark Web:www.klid.dk
Re: New version soon? and Logic shapes
Thanks for the help. I had figured this out just today :) This should be documented with the shapes doc soon. -- Karim Nassar On Wed, 2 May 2001, Michael Inggs wrote: Hi I am running the .86 version which is standard with the Mandrake 7.2 release. I needed the logic shapes. I did get them to work with some brute force hacking i.e. change all the .png icons to .xpm (I used xv to do this). You also have to change the urls during the xml definitions at the start to be the same as specified in the .shape files which come with your distribution of dia. In particular, for the 'and' shape, I changed
Re: New version soon?
Lars Clausen wrote: There will be a new version soon, even if we have to go to Australia ourselves and hunt down James:) Now, now. No *hunting*, please! Let one good deed go unpunished. Remember all that stuff about setting your love free? He'll come back when he's ready, or he was never really ours, right? Forgive my ignorance, but what is the protocol? How does an internet project route around a maintainer who's not available when the code nears the end of its gestation? And what should be done with a guy who uses two metaphors in one question? Not that I think a 4-week absence is cause for mutiny and of course meaning no disrespect to James, not at all. I just wonder what happens if there's rough consensus and working code, and someone prepared to do the work, but no communication from the project's maintainer. I also don't know what specifically goes into releasing a version, and I'm hoping to learn something here. I would think it's just calling for any last-minute patches, tidying up what in the CVS, summarizing the incorporated changes in the release notes, building the various binaries, posting the (source and binary) tarballs, and making the announcement. Anything else? --jkl
Re: New version soon?
Hans and list, Just droping my 2 cents on the isse of making a new release: I am the kind of user who can get CVS builds and compile them. But most users cannot, and this impacts me as a consultant, because my customers cannot get from cvs and compile themselves. If someone makes software and releases it on the internet, that's not just for fun, bu because he likes having happy users. I could make my release of dia and package as an RPM, but it would be my release. Even if I´d tried to manage my release, the developers should agree on what's release X.Y. If the developers are too busy or do not like to thake the hard job of producing a release, that's fine, I guess someone whould offer to take this job, but the developers should at least freese features for a release and branch on CVS (so this release can have bigfixes independent of new development. []s, Fernando Lozano
Re: New version soon?
At 22:21 01.05.01 +0200, Claus Sørensen - ProjectHouse wrote:
Fra: Hans Breuer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
One of the main engines in Open Source/Free
Softeware projects is release often so you don't
have these huge gaps between releases.
Wow, what a deep insight. I've always thought the main engine
in Free Software projects are motivated developers. Why
should one do something for free if he could as well earn
money with it ?
I said one of...
And I said *THE* ...
Maybe because of fun, challenge, glory, or simply because
he wants to use the program himself ...
But it is always more fun if the project evolves and
you can see the fruits of your development - happy
users.
IMO you can't tell, what's fun for me ...
I know my limitations - and I am not a very skilled
programmer (I can read some C and shell scripts),
so I'm trying to guide you so the time for 0.87 will
not be too far away.
Thanks, that's defenetly *not* required, at least for me.
If you want to tell other people what they should do, I
suggest: Pay them or improve your authority otherwise.
And then I hope for baby steps in the future. It is easier
to make small changes and bugfixes, and then release
again than mayor steps.
Maybe Dia should use two tracks like Linux:
- developer track where all the new features are tested
- stable track where all the stable features
Maybe you should first read the mailing list archives before
repeating discussions ...
Maybe *not* because of continous complaining.
I'm not (only) complaining - I'm trying to help.
Thanks, but no thanks. If you want to help: report bugs,
write documentation, answers FAQs on the mailing list,
but IMO never ever try to lead free (as in free bear, which
you drink and someone else has to pay:) source developers.
[...]
Then reason we aren't seeing a release is that our maintainer, James
Henstridge, seems to have slunk away somewhere.
goto start_of_mail;
I read is as you are the new maintainer -
or am I wrong.
You are, but it isn't surprising, is it?
I am maintainer of the win32 port of Dia and actually
I'm the coder as well :)
Hans
Hans at Breuer dot Org ---
Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to
get along without it.-- Dilbert
Re: New version soon?
At 22:26 01.05.01 +0200, Dag Wieers wrote: On Tue, 1 May 2001, Hans Breuer wrote: Let's see if all the developers/users can agree on this ? Dia 0.87 should: - work on all major platforms, (Does this include Gnome 1.4; anyone using Gnome 1.4 out there ?) Yes, and the packages on my website are build against Ximian Gnome 1.4. It would be nice if an official release could get some more testing before releasing. And from my experience the best way to test is simply using it. Maybe *not* because of continous complaining. It may not be intended. I had the same feeling, but e-mail is just bad to express feelings. His intention was to help the project, and it well may have worked. ;) I think my comment on his mail is enough :) I'm not a developer, what can I do ? Get used to bugzilla.gnome.org. I can't believe that there are only two open bugs with Dia 0.86 as may recent request did show. I would like to have the improved SPEC file in the new release and (if everyone thinks it is useful) my set of shapes. The CVS version looks good, no more problems here. I don't thinks. See my recent commits. Hans Hans at Breuer dot Org --- Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it.-- Dilbert
Re: New version soon?
At 15:11 02.05.01 -0300, Fernando Lozano wrote: Hans and list, Just droping my 2 cents on the isse of making a new release: I am the kind of user who can get CVS builds and compile them. But most users cannot, and this impacts me as a consultant, because my customers cannot get from cvs and compile themselves. If someone makes software and releases it on the internet, that's not just for fun, bu because he likes having happy users. Just another one who knows why I'm doing free work. Let me tell you, the happy users from my daytime work are enough for me :-) And, the whole discussion wasn't about why making releases, but about why *not* making releases ... I could make my release of dia and package as an RPM, but it would be my release. Even if I´d tried to manage my release, the developers should agree on what's release X.Y. If the developers are too busy or do not like to thake the hard job of producing a release, that's fine, I guess someone whould offer to take this job, but the developers should at least freese features for a release and branch on CVS (so this release can have bigfixes independent of new development. Thanks for the offer. I totally agree to the first part but I think that there are neither enough active developers at the moment to make the stable/unstable separation nor the differnces between the two branches would justify the extra work. Obviously the release - if it ever comes - shoulf be labeled in cvs. And again a link into the mailing list archives: The thread Target Gtk+2.0 (was Re: plug-ins/renderer.inc) had some discussion about creating a branch (if i recall correctly) but finally there wasn't an agreement ... Hans []s, Fernando Lozano Hans at Breuer dot Org --- Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it.-- Dilbert
Re: New version soon?
At 08:56 30.04.01 -0500, Lars Clausen wrote: On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Claus Sørensen wrote: What is the roadmap for the next version? Let's see if all the developers/users can agree on this ? Dia 0.87 should: - work on all major platforms, (Does this include Gnome 1.4; anyone using Gnome 1.4 out there ?) - make available all the bugfixes since the last official version (Dia 0.86 has had some serious problems with some menu actions, see: Objects/Align/Equal Distance thread. Are there any *users* out there ?) - contain less bugs/more features than the previous release - silence complaining about bugs, which got fixed month ago - be localized properly ? Is there a feature freeze? Interesting question. Lars, what do you think about this one ? One of the main engines in Open Source/Free Softeware projects is release often so you don't have these huge gaps between releases. Wow, what a deep insight. I've always thought the main engine in Free Software projects are motivated developers. Why should one do something for free if he could as well earn money with it ? Maybe because of fun, challenge, glory, or simply because he wants to use the program himself ... Maybe *not* because of continous complaining. Couldn't you release more often so more of us can benefit for the work you have been doing since last release. IHMO the key question here is: Is the benefit on both sides ? Doing an official release does require some extra work which almost never falls into the fun category. Part of this work can be done by the users, who are willing to build from cvs. Do you want bugs to be eliminated, than tell about! Then reason we aren't seeing a release is that our maintainer, James Henstridge, seems to have slunk away somewhere. goto start_of_mail; Hans Hans at Breuer dot Org --- Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it.-- Dilbert
Re: New version soon?
On Tue, 1 May 2001, Hans Breuer wrote: - work on all major platforms, (Does this include Gnome 1.4; anyone using Gnome 1.4 out there ?) - make available all the bugfixes since the last official version (Dia 0.86 has had some serious problems with some menu actions, see: Objects/Align/Equal Distance thread. Are there any *users* out there ?) - contain less bugs/more features than the previous release - silence complaining about bugs, which got fixed month ago - be localized properly ? I think one of the biggest features would be increasing extensibility or providing more and easier to find documentation on extending dia, be it plugins or tools that work along side Dia. but thats just me because I never want to use Visio again, actually I never want to use any diagram prgram again I want it all to work magically thru perl scripts and xml and mind reading, but one step at a time :) as for releasing early and often - thats what CVS is for amongst the other good points hans makes. One of the things that makes a software project more dynamic is having making it more accesable through plugins and api's and documentation that mean people can pick it up and start hacking. I'd love to hack dia but my C isn't too hot, hence me doing automagic with Dia's XML using perl, having an API or a way to do perl plugins would make a huge difference. finally thanks to the Dia developers and maintainers for doing things the right way - the XML file format is really useful - I am using it to create UML class diagrams in perl and now I'm parsing the xml into text/html documentation as well. I know of a bunch of other projects that taking the xml and doing cool stuff with it like dia2sql. Anyone got any thoughts on Graphviz - it does automagic layout, don't know how much use or interest it would be to the Dia developers? I am planning to make my code work with both Dia and Graphviz. regards, A. spam ps - anybody need a decent perl developer in london, uk?(email me offlist) pps - automagic xml goodness : http://droogs.org/autodial/ (ditto) /spam
Re: New version soon?
Fra: Hans Breuer [EMAIL PROTECTED] One of the main engines in Open Source/Free Softeware projects is release often so you don't have these huge gaps between releases. Wow, what a deep insight. I've always thought the main engine in Free Software projects are motivated developers. Why should one do something for free if he could as well earn money with it ? I said one of... Maybe because of fun, challenge, glory, or simply because he wants to use the program himself ... But it is always more fun if the project evolves and you can see the fruits of your development - happy users. And most of the users trying Dia 0.86 stops because it is not as finish as they hoped. Some of them looking for new versions but don't find any (because CVS and compiling is not as easy as deps and rpms). I know my limitations - and I am not a very skilled programmer (I can read some C and shell scripts), so I'm trying to guide you so the time for 0.87 will not be too far away. And then I hope for baby steps in the future. It is easier to make small changes and bugfixes, and then release again than mayor steps. Maybe Dia should use two tracks like Linux: - developer track where all the new features are tested - stable track where all the stable features Maybe *not* because of continous complaining. I'm not (only) complaining - I'm trying to help. Couldn't you release more often so more of us can benefit for the work you have been doing since last release. IHMO the key question here is: Is the benefit on both sides ? I could write about all the errors I discover but I don't know if they are already fixed because I use the 0.86 version and not a CSV-build. If I was a developer I will get tired of all the old bug-reports that was fixed months ago. And who want to look through hundreds of kilobytes of change logs to see if the error you discovered was fixed. Doing an official release does require some extra work which almost never falls into the fun category. Part of this work can be done by the users, who are willing to build from cvs. Sorry - but I don't have a system I can test on but I will help by writing about Dia in the Danish documentation project Linux - Friheden til at vælge. And I will send bugreports of the new 0.87 release so the 0.88 can be released very quickly. Do you want bugs to be eliminated, than tell about! I have... Then reason we aren't seeing a release is that our maintainer, James Henstridge, seems to have slunk away somewhere. goto start_of_mail; I read is as you are the new maintainer - or am I wrong. The most enjoyable greetings Claus Sorensen K L I D Chairman --Mobile: +45 20 94 62 34 Noddelunden 110 Commercial Linux Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DK-2765 Smorum Association of Denmark Web:www.klid.dk
Re: New version soon?
On Tue, 1 May 2001, Hans Breuer wrote: Let's see if all the developers/users can agree on this ? Dia 0.87 should: - work on all major platforms, (Does this include Gnome 1.4; anyone using Gnome 1.4 out there ?) Yes, and the packages on my website are build against Ximian Gnome 1.4. Maybe *not* because of continous complaining. It may not be intended. I had the same feeling, but e-mail is just bad to express feelings. His intention was to help the project, and it well may have worked. ;) I'm not a developer, what can I do ? I would like to have the improved SPEC file in the new release and (if everyone thinks it is useful) my set of shapes. The CVS version looks good, no more problems here. -- dag wieers, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://dag.wieers.com/ -- «Onder voorbehoud van hetgeen niet uitdrukkelijk wordt erkend.»
Re: New version soon?
On Tue, 1 May 2001, Aaron Trevena wrote: On Tue, 1 May 2001, Hans Breuer wrote: - work on all major platforms, (Does this include Gnome 1.4; anyone using Gnome 1.4 out there ?) - make available all the bugfixes since the last official version (Dia 0.86 has had some serious problems with some menu actions, see: Objects/Align/Equal Distance thread. Are there any *users* out there ?) - contain less bugs/more features than the previous release - silence complaining about bugs, which got fixed month ago - be localized properly ? I think one of the biggest features would be increasing extensibility or providing more and easier to find documentation on extending dia, be it plugins or tools that work along side Dia. Yes, better organization of sheets and stuff would be neat-o. but thats just me because I never want to use Visio again, actually I never want to use any diagram prgram again I want it all to work magically thru perl scripts and xml and mind reading, but one step at a time :) I almost got my coworker here to write the mind-reading plugin:) as for releasing early and often - thats what CVS is for amongst the other good points hans makes. No, CVS is for the developers. Having to point non-developers at the CVS version is IMHO a sign of lack of frequent enough releases. Most importantly, distributions and the like should never pick from CVS (see what happened to RedHat and gcc), but should be able to include a recent version. One of the things that makes a software project more dynamic is having making it more accesable through plugins and api's and documentation that mean people can pick it up and start hacking. I'd love to hack dia but my C isn't too hot, hence me doing automagic with Dia's XML using perl, having an API or a way to do perl plugins would make a huge difference. Let me put it this way: What do you want to be able to do from perl? Just create more objects, or more than that? finally thanks to the Dia developers and maintainers for doing things the right way - the XML file format is really useful - I am using it to create UML class diagrams in perl and now I'm parsing the xml into text/html documentation as well. I know of a bunch of other projects that taking the xml and doing cool stuff with it like dia2sql. Thanks for that go to Alex -- he did a very cool design right from the start, including the split between app, lib and objects. Anyone got any thoughts on Graphviz - it does automagic layout, don't know how much use or interest it would be to the Dia developers? I am planning to make my code work with both Dia and Graphviz. I believe the Graphviz stuff is under a rather more restrictive license. -Lars -- Lars Clausen (http://shasta.cs.uiuc.edu/~lrclause) | Hårdgrim of Numenor I do not agree with a word that you say, but I| Retainer of Sir Kegg will defend to the death your right to say it.| of Westfield --Evelyn Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire | Chaos Berserker of Khorne
Re: New version soon?
On Tue, 01 May 2001, Hans Breuer wrote: At 08:56 30.04.01 -0500, Lars Clausen wrote: On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Claus Sørensen wrote: What is the roadmap for the next version? Let's see if all the developers/users can agree on this ? Dia 0.87 should: - work on all major platforms, (Does this include Gnome 1.4; anyone using Gnome 1.4 out there ?) - make available all the bugfixes since the last official version (Dia 0.86 has had some serious problems with some menu actions, see: Objects/Align/Equal Distance thread. Are there any *users* out there ?) Yes, I use it for a variety of stuff (from DTP-like setup through scenarios and flowcharts for games to actual diagrams for articles). - contain less bugs/more features than the previous release I believe we do. We haven't removed any features that I know of, and I put in the feature that it shows the object name in the properties dialog:) - silence complaining about bugs, which got fixed month ago - be localized properly ? That's a toughie -- translating all the sheets require knowledge not only of the language, but of the specific terms. I've been bugging various LUGs to get translators, but no luck yet. Is there a feature freeze? Interesting question. Lars, what do you think about this one ? Yes, I've had the feeling we've had feature freeze for a while. I even think it was mentioned on the list once. Couldn't you release more often so more of us can benefit for the work you have been doing since last release. IHMO the key question here is: Is the benefit on both sides ? Doing an official release does require some extra work which almost never falls into the fun category. Part of this work can be done by the users, who are willing to build from cvs. Doing an official release should also relieve us from a) having to point users at CVS for bugs that got fixed months ago, and thus b) having to help non-developers with getting the CVS version to compile. There will be a new version soon, even if we have to go to Australia ourselves and hunt down James:) -Lars -- Lars Clausen (http://shasta.cs.uiuc.edu/~lrclause) | Hårdgrim of Numenor I do not agree with a word that you say, but I| Retainer of Sir Kegg will defend to the death your right to say it.| of Westfield --Evelyn Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire | Chaos Berserker of Khorne
Re: New version soon?
- work on all major platforms, (Does this include Gnome 1.4; anyone using Gnome 1.4 out there ?) - make available all the bugfixes since the last official version (Dia 0.86 has had some serious problems with some menu actions, see: Objects/Align/Equal Distance thread. Are there any *users* out there ?) - contain less bugs/more features than the previous release - silence complaining about bugs, which got fixed month ago - be localized properly ? I think one of the biggest features would be increasing extensibility or providing more and easier to find documentation on extending dia, be it plugins or tools that work along side Dia. I would like to vote for a shapes catalog/plugin scheme. I have tried to insert the Logic shapes into my (.86) install, and it does not work. I have sent this out to the list but recieved no correct answer. It seems that there are others of you that have created shapes and even shape libraries. Maybe a central repository for them? If someone can help me get Logic shapes working, I will help maintain this aspect (provided others agree it is a good idea) :) --Karim Nassar
Re: New version soon?
On Tue, 01 May 2001, Karim A. Nassar wrote: - work on all major platforms, (Does this include Gnome 1.4; anyone using Gnome 1.4 out there ?) - make available all the bugfixes since the last official version (Dia 0.86 has had some serious problems with some menu actions, see: Objects/Align/Equal Distance thread. Are there any *users* out there ?) - contain less bugs/more features than the previous release - silence complaining about bugs, which got fixed month ago - be localized properly ? I think one of the biggest features would be increasing extensibility or providing more and easier to find documentation on extending dia, be it plugins or tools that work along side Dia. I would like to vote for a shapes catalog/plugin scheme. I have tried to insert the Logic shapes into my (.86) install, and it does not work. I have sent this out to the list but recieved no correct answer. It seems that there are others of you that have created shapes and even shape libraries. Maybe a central repository for them? There will definitely be some point where it doesn't make sense to distribute all sheets with Dia, simply because the scroll-down list becomes too long and start-up too slow. We will have to come up with a scheme to handle this. The first step will be to just have a repository with pre-packaged sheets and descriptions as tar-balls. Next would be having Dia be able to connect to there and download them itself. If someone can help me get Logic shapes working, I will help maintain this aspect (provided others agree it is a good idea) :) Let's look at this off-line, and see if we can get it to work. -Lars -- Lars Clausen (http://shasta.cs.uiuc.edu/~lrclause) | Hårdgrim of Numenor I do not agree with a word that you say, but I| Retainer of Sir Kegg will defend to the death your right to say it.| of Westfield --Evelyn Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire | Chaos Berserker of Khorne
Re: New version soon?
On Tue, 1 May 2001, Karim A Nassar wrote: If someone can help me get Logic shapes working, I will help maintain this aspect (provided others agree it is a good idea) :) If you're willing to send the files, I'll look at it. But tell again what you wanted to do and what fails with your (?) version. I learned a lot by switching between de 0.86 and a CVS-version ;) -- dag wieers, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://dag.wieers.com/ -- «Onder voorbehoud van hetgeen niet uitdrukkelijk wordt erkend.»
Re: New version soon?
On Tue, 1 May 2001, Dag Wieers wrote: On Tue, 1 May 2001, Karim A Nassar wrote: If someone can help me get Logic shapes working, I will help maintain this aspect (provided others agree it is a good idea) :) If you're willing to send the files, I'll look at it. But tell again what you wanted to do and what fails with your (?) version. I learned a lot by switching between de 0.86 and a CVS-version ;) Well, here we see another reason to release more often: There are many incremental differences between 0.86 and CVS, and we can't easily tell if the Logic shapes depend on some of those. I can't even tell if the version I have installed locally is a pure 0.86 or later. -Lars -- Lars Clausen (http://shasta.cs.uiuc.edu/~lrclause) | Hårdgrim of Numenor I do not agree with a word that you say, but I| Retainer of Sir Kegg will defend to the death your right to say it.| of Westfield --Evelyn Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire | Chaos Berserker of Khorne
Re: New version soon? and Logic shapes
Hi I am running the .86 version which is standard with the Mandrake 7.2 release. I needed the logic shapes. I did get them to work with some brute force hacking i.e. change all the .png icons to .xpm (I used xv to do this). You also have to change the urls during the xml definitions at the start to be the same as specified in the .shape files which come with your distribution of dia. In particular, for the 'and' shape, I changed ?xml version=1.0? shape xmlns=http://www.daa.com.au/~james/dia-shape-ns; xmlns:svg=http://www.w3.org/2000/svg; nameLogic - And/name iconand.png/icon connections point x=6 y=4/ point x=6 y=9/ point x=5 y=9/ point x=7 y=9/ /connections aspectratio type=fixed/ svg:svg svg:path style=fill: #ff d=M 6 4 C 8,4 8,7 8,9 C 7,9 5,9 4,9 C 4,7 4,4 6,4z/ svg:path style=stroke-width: 0.1; stroke: #00 d=M 6 4 C 8,4 8,7 8,9 C 7,9 5,9 4,9 C 4,7 4,4 6,4/ /svg:svg /shape --- to the following: note the url change, and the .png to .xpm - ?xml version=1.0? shape xmlns=http://www.daa.com.au/~james/dia-shape-ns; xmlns:svg=http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/03/WD-SVG-2303/DTD/svg-2303-stylable.dtd; nameLogic - And/name iconand.xpm/icon connections point x=6 y=4/ point x=6 y=9/ point x=5 y=9/ point x=7 y=9/ /connections aspectratio type=fixed/ svg:svg svg:path style=fill: #ff d=M 6 4 C 8,4 8,7 8,9 C 7,9 5,9 4,9 C 4,7 4,4 6,4z/ svg:path style=stroke-width: 0.1; stroke: #00 d=M 6 4 C 8,4 8,7 8,9 C 7,9 5,9 4,9 C 4,7 4,4 6,4/ /svg:svg /shape --- I have not tried to understand .svg etc., so cannot comment on why one works and the other does not! I would understand the .png as being something to do with the release of dia, but it does seem that all .86 are not equal. Regards Mike Inggs Karim A Nassar wrote: - work on all major platforms, (Does this include Gnome 1.4; anyone using Gnome 1.4 out there ?) - make available all the bugfixes since the last official version (Dia 0.86 has had some serious problems with some menu actions, see: Objects/Align/Equal Distance thread. Are there any *users* out there ?) - contain less bugs/more features than the previous release - silence complaining about bugs, which got fixed month ago - be localized properly ? I think one of the biggest features would be increasing extensibility or providing more and easier to find documentation on extending dia, be it plugins or tools that work along side Dia. I would like to vote for a shapes catalog/plugin scheme. I have tried to insert the Logic shapes into my (.86) install, and it does not work. I have sent this out to the list but recieved no correct answer. It seems that there are others of you that have created shapes and even shape libraries. Maybe a central repository for them? If someone can help me get Logic shapes working, I will help maintain this aspect (provided others agree it is a good idea) :) --Karim Nassar -- Michael Inggs Dept. Electrical Engineering, University of Cape Town Private Bag, Rondebosch 7701, South Africa Tel: +27 21 650 2799Fax: +27 21 650 3465 http://rrsg.ee.uct.ac.za http://rrsg.ee.uct.ac.za/URSI
Re: New version soon?
From: Dag Wieers [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Claus Sørensen - Chairman of KLID wrote: Couldn't you release more often so more of us can benefit for the work you have been doing since last release. You can always extract a version from CVS. The current CVS version is rock-solid. Why don't you then make a tar.gz file of it and call it beta-something? CVS is not for ordinary users. And the last time I got a lot of errors even that I followed the installation guide (README). Or even better make rpm's and dep's for the different distributions. Although I'm in favor of a new stable release (RH7.1 and Gnome 1.4 already missed ;))) Why not just release more often so there is always a new stable release that new distros could use (and not just Red Hat)? The most enjoyable greetings Claus Sorensen K L I D Chairman --Mobile: +45 20 94 62 34 Noddelunden 110 Commercial Linux Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DK-2765 Smorum Association of Denmark Web:www.klid.dk
Re: New version soon?
On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Claus Sørensen - Chairman of KLID wrote: Why don't you then make a tar.gz file of it and call it beta-something? I do. Or even better make rpm's and dep's for the different distributions. I can send you RPM's if you like. BTW CVS is for normal users too, check out http://www.lysator.liu.se/~alla/dia/ Just do something like: export CVSROOT=':pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs/gnome' cvs -z3 checkout dia mv dia dia-0.86 tar -cvzf dia-0.86.tar.gz dia-0.86 rpm -ta dia-0.86.tar.gz And you will have a tarball, a source package and a binary package. And I only typed 5 commands ;) Good luck. -- dag wieers, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://dag.wieers.com/ -- «Onder voorbehoud van hetgeen niet uitdrukkelijk wordt erkend.»
Re: New version soon?
I completely agree with you. Why don't you make a source tarball, let's say once a week ??? It would be easier for all of us to D/L the source tree, cause CVS pserver isn't allowed for everyone (like me)... Cyril Claus Sørensen - Chairman of KLID a écrit : From: Dag Wieers [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Claus Sørensen - Chairman of KLID wrote: Couldn't you release more often so more of us can benefit for the work you have been doing since last release. You can always extract a version from CVS. The current CVS version is rock-solid. Why don't you then make a tar.gz file of it and call it beta-something? CVS is not for ordinary users. And the last time I got a lot of errors even that I followed the installation guide (README). Or even better make rpm's and dep's for the different distributions. Although I'm in favor of a new stable release (RH7.1 and Gnome 1.4 already missed ;))) Why not just release more often so there is always a new stable release that new distros could use (and not just Red Hat)? The most enjoyable greetings Claus Sorensen K L I D Chairman --Mobile: +45 20 94 62 34 Noddelunden 110 Commercial Linux Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DK-2765 Smorum Association of Denmark Web:www.klid.dk
Re: New version soon?
Dag Wieers a écrit : On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Claus Sørensen - Chairman of KLID wrote: Why don't you then make a tar.gz file of it and call it beta-something? I do. Or even better make rpm's and dep's for the different distributions. I can send you RPM's if you like. BTW CVS is for normal users too, check out http://www.lysator.liu.se/~alla/dia/ Just do something like: export CVSROOT=':pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs/gnome' cvs -z3 checkout dia mv dia dia-0.86 tar -cvzf dia-0.86.tar.gz dia-0.86 rpm -ta dia-0.86.tar.gz Don't forget cvs login And as I said earlier, I've got this error message from CVS : cvs [login aborted]: connect to anoncvs.gnome.org:2401 failed: Connection timed out Idem for cvs -z3 ... So I voted for the source tarball ;-) (cos' I need the new shape feature eagerly ;) Cyril
Re: New version soon?
On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Cyril ZEKSER wrote: I completely agree with you. Why don't you make a source tarball, let's say once a week ??? It would be easier for all of us to D/L the source tree, cause CVS pserver isn't allowed for everyone (like me)... Hey, I'm not a developer ;) And I don't have access to the Dia website. But specially for you I have put a recent tarball on: http://dag.wieers.com/home-made/ I was planning do to this, but not specifically for Dia and certainly not now. -- dag wieers, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://dag.wieers.com/ -- «Onder voorbehoud van hetgeen niet uitdrukkelijk wordt erkend.»
Re: New version soon?
On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Cyril ZEKSER wrote: Don't forget cvs login Why do you need that ? I did the steps that I described and without problems. And as I said earlier, I've got this error message from CVS : cvs [login aborted]: connect to anoncvs.gnome.org:2401 failed: Connection timed out 1. Your message was sent after mine was written (and wasn't a reply to yours). 2. Check with your Network administrator (would any windows-program say after a certain time-out). And that's what I would advice you too ;) -- dag wieers, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://dag.wieers.com/ -- «Onder voorbehoud van hetgeen niet uitdrukkelijk wordt erkend.»
Re: New version soon?
Dag Wieers a crit : On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Cyril ZEKSER wrote: > Don't forget > cvs login Why do you need that ? I did the steps that I described and without problems. In the Developer section you can read : //- Getting the latest sources from CVS You can always get the latest development version from the gnome cvs tree in the 'dia' module. If you want to help out with the development of Dia, please use this version. You can check out a copy of the sources by typing export CVSROOT=':pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs/gnome' if you run bash or setenv CVSROOT ':pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs/gnome' if you use csh. If this is your first checkout from the GNOME CVS tree, type cvs login. When prompted for a password, just press enter (you only need to do this once). Then type cvs -z3 checkout dia. After you have done this you can always update your sources by typing cvs -z3 update -PAd when standing in the directory where the dia sources reside. You can always browse the latest sources with bonsai or lxr. In the ChangeLog you can see all the recent developments. //- So that's why I old you to login, but maybe the FAQ isn't up to date > And as I said earlier, I've got this error message from CVS : > cvs [login aborted]: connect to anoncvs.gnome.org:2401 failed: Connection timed out 1. Your message was sent after mine was written (and wasn't a reply to yours). 2. Check with your Network administrator (would any windows-program say after a certain time-out). And that's what I would advice you too ;) I will but I need to be sure the port is 2401 (that's only the default mapping on my computer) cyril
Re: New version soon?
From: Dag Wieers [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Cyril ZEKSER wrote: I completely agree with you. Why don't you make a source tarball, let's say once a week ??? It would be easier for all of us to D/L the source tree, cause CVS pserver isn't allowed for everyone (like me)... I'm not a developer ;) And I don't have access to the Dia website. But specially for you I have put a recent tarball on: http://dag.wieers.com/home-made/ Thanks a lot. I hope someone with access to the website will make some sort of files available for download more often. The most enjoyable greetings Claus SorensenD K U U G Boardmember - Phone: +45 20 94 62 34 Noddelunden 110 Danish Unix Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DK-2765 SmorumSystem User Group Web: www.dkuug.dk
Re: New version soon?
On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Claus Sørensen wrote: What is the roadmap for the next version? Is there a feature freeze? One of the main engines in Open Source/Free Softeware projects is release often so you don't have these huge gaps between releases. Couldn't you release more often so more of us can benefit for the work you have been doing since last release. Then reason we aren't seeing a release is that our maintainer, James Henstridge, seems to have slunk away somewhere. -Lars -- Lars Clausen (http://shasta.cs.uiuc.edu/~lrclause) | Hårdgrim of Numenor I do not agree with a word that you say, but I| Retainer of Sir Kegg will defend to the death your right to say it.| of Westfield --Evelyn Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire | Chaos Berserker of Khorne
Re: New version soon?
From: Lars Clausen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Then reason we aren't seeing a release is that our maintainer, James Henstridge, seems to have slunk away somewhere. How long have he been away? If you are talking about months then it is time for the rest of the developing team to find another maintainer. But first try to reach for him and hear what is going on. Open Source projects some times lost their maintainers so it is not an unknown situation. The reasons can be many: New job, girl/boyfriend/spouse, lost interest, ill, dead, new religion, travelling around the world, found a more interesting OS-project... Let's hope it some of the more happy reasons but that shouldn't stop the project. Happy hacking. The most enjoyable greeting Claus Sorensen K L I D Chairman --Mobile: +45 20 94 62 34 Noddelunden 110 Commercial Linux Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DK-2765 Smorum Association of Denmark Web:www.klid.dk
Re: New version soon?
On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Dag Wieers wrote: Just do something like: export CVSROOT=':pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs/gnome' cvs -z3 checkout dia mv dia dia-0.86 tar -cvzf dia-0.86.tar.gz dia-0.86 rpm -ta dia-0.86.tar.gz And you will have a tarball, a source package and a binary package. And I only typed 5 commands ;) Yes, and which will not build on a RedHat 6.2 system (undefined macros in configure.in). Is this expected? Any workarounds? Steve -- Steven N. Hirsch tie-line: 446-6557 ext: 802-769-6557 Staff Engineer Methodology Integration Team ASIC Product Development IBM Microelectronics
Re: New version soon?
On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Steven N. Hirsch wrote: On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Dag Wieers wrote: Just do something like: export CVSROOT=':pserver:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/cvs/gnome' cvs -z3 checkout dia mv dia dia-0.86 tar -cvzf dia-0.86.tar.gz dia-0.86 rpm -ta dia-0.86.tar.gz And you will have a tarball, a source package and a binary package. And I only typed 5 commands ;) Yes, and which will not build on a RedHat 6.2 system (undefined macros in configure.in). Is this expected? Any workarounds? Even after upgrading to the latest and greatest automake, autoconf and libtool packages, it complains about AM_HEADER_INIT being an undefined macro. Where is this found? Steve -- Steven N. Hirsch tie-line: 446-6557 ext: 802-769-6557 Staff Engineer Methodology Integration Team ASIC Product Development IBM Microelectronics
Re: New version soon?
Le lun, avr 30, 2001, à 12:55:15 -0400, Steven N. Hirsch a écrit: Even after upgrading to the latest and greatest automake, autoconf and libtool packages, it complains about AM_HEADER_INIT being an undefined macro. try to run aclocal, and retry automake autoconf (or just ./autogen.sh, paying close attention to the output) Also, which are the latest versions, as installed on your system ? FWIW, I've got this on my system: gettext 0.10.36 automake 1.4 autoconf 2.13 m4 1.4 libtool 1.3.5 -- Cyrille -- Grumpf.
Re: New version soon?
On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Cyrille Chepelov wrote: Le lun, avr 30, 2001, à 12:55:15 -0400, Steven N. Hirsch a écrit: Even after upgrading to the latest and greatest automake, autoconf and libtool packages, it complains about AM_HEADER_INIT being an undefined macro. try to run aclocal, and retry automake autoconf (or just ./autogen.sh, paying close attention to the output) Still no luck. This happens when I run aclocal: aclocal: configure.in: 163: macro `AM_PATH_GDK_PIXBUF' not found in library I have imlib-1.9.7 and libxml-1.8.6 installed. Also, which are the latest versions, as installed on your system ? FWIW, I've got this on my system: gettext 0.10.36 automake 1.4 autoconf 2.13 m4 1.4 libtool 1.3.5 That's what I have here, except my gettext is 0.10.35 g. When I run autogen.sh, this is what occurs: I am going to run ./configure with no arguments - if you wish to pass any to it, please specify them on the ./autogen.sh command line. Running gettextize... Ignore non-fatal messages. intl/ subdirectory exists: use option -f if you really want to delete it. Running libtoolize aclocal: configure.in: 163: macro `AM_PATH_GDK_PIXBUF' not found in library automake: configure.in: installing `./install-sh' automake: configure.in: installing `./mkinstalldirs' automake: configure.in: installing `./missing' automake: Makefile.am: installing `./COPYING' configure.in: 213: required file `./ABOUT-NLS' not found objects/standard/Makefile.am:3: library used but `LIBTOOL' not defined in `configure.in' app/Makefile.am:143: variable `GTK_LIBS' not defined app/Makefile.am:143: variable `INTLLIBS' not defined app/Makefile.am:143: variable `LIBART_LIBS' not defined app/Makefile.am:143: variable `GDK_PIXBUF_LIBS' not defined app/Makefile.am:156: variable `LIBART_LIBS' not defined app/Makefile.am:156: variable `GDK_PIXBUF_LIBS' not defined app/Makefile.am:156: variable `INTLLIBS' not defined autoconf: Undefined macros: configure.in:127:AC_DEFINE(HAVE_UNICODE,, Unicode support library available) configure.in:146:AC_CHECK_LIB(popt, poptSetOtherOptionHelp, [AC_DEFINE(HAVE_LIBPOPT) configure.in:156: AC_DEFINE(HAVE_LIBART)], configure.in:181:AC_DEFINE(HAVE_LIBPNG) configure.in:34: AC_DEFINE(USE_XIM) configure.in:62: AC_DEFINE(GNOME) configure.in:67:AC_DEFINE(GNOME_PRINT) creating cache ./config.cache ./configure: syntax error near unexpected token `AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE(dia,' ./configure: ./configure: line 547: `AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE(dia, 0.86)' Now type 'make' to compile dia. Hope this helps to get to the bottom of the problem. Steve -- Steven N. Hirsch tie-line: 446-6557 ext: 802-769-6557 Staff Engineer Methodology Integration Team ASIC Product Development IBM Microelectronics
Re: New version soon?
Le lun, avr 30, 2001, à 03:47:32 -0400, Steven N. Hirsch a écrit: being an undefined macro. try to run aclocal, and retry automake autoconf (or just ./autogen.sh, paying close attention to the output) Still no luck. This happens when I run aclocal: aclocal: configure.in: 163: macro `AM_PATH_GDK_PIXBUF' not found in library I have imlib-1.9.7 and libxml-1.8.6 installed. Have you installed libgdk-pixbuf-dev (or libgdk-pixbuf-gnome-dev, or the equivalent packages for your distributions) ? That's what I have here, except my gettext is 0.10.35 g. should be fine. configure.in:127:AC_DEFINE(HAVE_UNICODE,, Unicode support library available) configure.in:146:AC_CHECK_LIB(popt, poptSetOtherOptionHelp, [AC_DEFINE(HAVE_LIBPOPT) configure.in:156: AC_DEFINE(HAVE_LIBART)], configure.in:181:AC_DEFINE(HAVE_LIBPNG) configure.in:34: AC_DEFINE(USE_XIM) configure.in:62: AC_DEFINE(GNOME) configure.in:67:AC_DEFINE(GNOME_PRINT) Hmmm... I don't know what happens here. Might be related to aclocal's troubles. creating cache ./config.cache ./configure: syntax error near unexpected token `AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE(dia,' ./configure: ./configure: line 547: `AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE(dia, 0.86)' Yes. This is related to aclocal's failure. Good luck. -- Cyrille -- Grumpf.
Re: New version soon?
On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Cyrille Chepelov wrote: I have imlib-1.9.7 and libxml-1.8.6 installed. Have you installed libgdk-pixbuf-dev (or libgdk-pixbuf-gnome-dev, or the equivalent packages for your distributions) ? I would have, had they been listed as requirements in INSTALL g. Now that I've grabbed libgdk-pixbuf-* and installed them, it seems to nominally build and run. Thanks for the help, and hopefully this will motivate the maintainers to update the documents (hint, hint). Steve -- Steven N. Hirsch tie-line: 446-6557 ext: 802-769-6557 Staff Engineer Methodology Integration Team ASIC Product Development IBM Microelectronics
Re: New version soon?
On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Claus Sørensen wrote: From: Lars Clausen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Then reason we aren't seeing a release is that our maintainer, James Henstridge, seems to have slunk away somewhere. How long have he been away? The last message from him was 4 weeks ago today. Given the amount of activity we're seen recently, one would think he'd be more around. If you are talking about months then it is time for the rest of the developing team to find another maintainer. But first try to reach for him and hear what is going on. I mailed him directly about a week ago (in case his dia-list mail goes somewhere else), but no reply yet. Open Source projects some times lost their maintainers so it is not an unknown situation. The reasons can be many: New job, girl/boyfriend/spouse, lost interest, ill, dead, new religion, travelling around the world, found a more interesting OS-project... Let's hope it some of the more happy reasons but that shouldn't stop the project. Very true. Let's get the standard properties into the rest of the applicable places, and wrap up any other bug we can find. Claus Sorensen K L I D Chairman --Mobile: +45 20 94 62 34 Noddelunden 110 Commercial Linux Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DK-2765 Smorum Association of Denmark Web:www.klid.dk Claus, jeg har prøvet at finde frivillige til at oversætte resten af Dia til dansk, specielt de mere specialiserede sheets. Jeg har klaret ca. halvdelen, tror du du kan finde nogen der kender de korrekte fagtermer på dansk? Det er kun ganske lidt arbejde det drejer sig om. -Lars -- Lars Clausen (http://shasta.cs.uiuc.edu/~lrclause) | Hårdgrim of Numenor I do not agree with a word that you say, but I| Retainer of Sir Kegg will defend to the death your right to say it.| of Westfield --Evelyn Beatrice Hall paraphrasing Voltaire | Chaos Berserker of Khorne
