Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 20/06/15 12:37, Martin Nowak wrote: Which also comes with the usual e-mail benefit, people think a lot more before hitting send. You talk like someone who's never seen a flame war. Shachar
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 21 Jun 2015 08:55, Shachar Shemesh via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 20/06/15 12:37, Martin Nowak wrote: Which also comes with the usual e-mail benefit, people think a lot more before hitting send. You talk like someone who's never seen a flame war. Shachar My preferred tactic is to start writing a heated email in response to some comment, or some commit, or some pull request. But instead of hitting send, I stop, print it out, then discard the draft.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Sunday, 21 June 2015 at 09:14:26 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote: On 21 Jun 2015 08:55, Shachar Shemesh via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 20/06/15 12:37, Martin Nowak wrote: Which also comes with the usual e-mail benefit, people think a lot more before hitting send. You talk like someone who's never seen a flame war. Shachar My preferred tactic is to start writing a heated email in response to some comment, or some commit, or some pull request. But instead of hitting send, I stop, print it out, then discard the draft. Excellent tactic and you are in good company with that strategy: http://tommykiedis.com/the-letter-lincoln-never-sent/
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 06/19/2015 06:26 PM, Joakim wrote: The impression I get is that everyone in the core team is too busy with their real jobs, other than Walter, to make meetings easy to coordinate. Not sure of a ready solution for that. Being to busy is no excuse for important things like this, b/c we're wasting lots of time on this. Meetings are easy, due to the different timezones synchronous meetings will hardly work, but an asynchronous meeting on a mailing list does. Which also comes with the usual e-mail benefit, people think a lot more before hitting send. Basically a biweekly sprint meeting to plan our trello board and discuss other stuff would suffice. http://forum.dlang.org/post/55586d5b.8020...@dawg.eu
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 19:27:09 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On 06/19/2015 02:41 PM, Jacques =?UTF-8?B?TcO8bGxlciI=?= jacques.muel...@gmx.de wrote: You could use a teamchat like Slack, HipChat, ChatGrape or even Let's Chat. Or irq. With IRC you could miss a conversation. Teamchats allow to browse and even search the entire chat history. Also they include integrations to github and others. It's just more comfortable.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 6/20/15 2:37 AM, Martin Nowak wrote: Basically a biweekly sprint meeting to plan our trello board and discuss other stuff would suffice. http://forum.dlang.org/post/55586d5b.8020...@dawg.eu A biweekly meeting would be great. -- Andrei
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 16:02:19 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: What happened to the one I contributed last year? If there's bitrot or other issues that needs addressing, then by all means, either ping me @ GitHub or email me at nick1 @ my domain name in this message's header. Both are set up to go straight to my phone. We still use that as the basis, but as you see people way too little about those tools. https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/installer/tree/master/create_dmd_release
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 21:00:27 UTC, Brad Anderson wrote: On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 19:27:09 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On 06/19/2015 02:41 PM, Jacques =?UTF-8?B?TcO8bGxlciI=?= jacques.muel...@gmx.de wrote: You could use a teamchat like Slack, HipChat, ChatGrape or even Let's Chat. Or irq. IRC, I hope, is what you mean. Chatting by interrupts sounds horrible. Andrei comes in IRC occasionally (less lately, he used to be in there daily). It's a shame we don't have more core devs in there. It's a fairly active channel with a couple hundred people at any given time. That's #d on freenode, I should say (even though freenode is kind of the obvious place for open source projects these days).
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 19:27:09 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On 06/19/2015 02:41 PM, Jacques =?UTF-8?B?TcO8bGxlciI=?= jacques.muel...@gmx.de wrote: You could use a teamchat like Slack, HipChat, ChatGrape or even Let's Chat. Or irq. IRC, I hope, is what you mean. Chatting by interrupts sounds horrible. Andrei comes in IRC occasionally (less lately, he used to be in there daily). It's a shame we don't have more core devs in there. It's a fairly active channel with a couple hundred people at any given time.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 06/19/2015 05:25 PM, David Gileadi wrote: On 6/19/15 2:00 PM, Brad Anderson wrote: IRC, I hope, is what you mean. Chatting by interrupts sounds hor- It sure does! :) Hah, I see what you did there... :)
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 06/19/2015 05:00 PM, Brad Anderson wrote: On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 19:27:09 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On 06/19/2015 02:41 PM, Jacques =?UTF-8?B?TcO8bGxlciI=?= jacques.muel...@gmx.de wrote: You could use a teamchat like Slack, HipChat, ChatGrape or even Let's Chat. Or irq. IRC, I hope, is what you mean. Chatting by interrupts sounds horrible. Erm...that's right, chat doesn't start with q :)
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 20/06/2015 9:03 a.m., Brad Anderson wrote: On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 21:00:27 UTC, Brad Anderson wrote: On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 19:27:09 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On 06/19/2015 02:41 PM, Jacques =?UTF-8?B?TcO8bGxlciI=?= jacques.muel...@gmx.de wrote: You could use a teamchat like Slack, HipChat, ChatGrape or even Let's Chat. Or irq. IRC, I hope, is what you mean. Chatting by interrupts sounds horrible. Andrei comes in IRC occasionally (less lately, he used to be in there daily). It's a shame we don't have more core devs in there. It's a fairly active channel with a couple hundred people at any given time. That's #d on freenode, I should say (even though freenode is kind of the obvious place for open source projects these days). We even have a channel on OFTC! Again #d.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 06/17/2015 08:35 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: You wouldn't just not go to work for two weeks and then show up at your desk as if nothing happened. This kind of stuff needs some level of planning, barring exceptional events. Yeah that didn't work too well, sorry for the trouble. I was extremely busy before dconf (that's part of why I missed my flight) and didn't spend much thought on the release. Probably didn't take it that serious, given how infrequently we handled it before. I was also under the impression that people were informed. http://forum.dlang.org/post/5554d763.1080...@dawg.eu Interestingly this links back to our missing communication infrastructure. We should have regular (semi-public) meetings involving all core contributors to plan development, releases, and everything D. Private (irregular) email discussion don't cut it, b/c they leave most people uninformed. The newsgroup doesn't work either, b/c it's too busy with daily news. We pay a lot for the lack of communication (it's key in a more hierarchical structure), b/c noone but Walter and you can push something on the development agenda without a screaming rant on the newsgroup. This is a main reason why so much work gets stuck/killed in the pull request stage (who could have discussed it before), and also the main reason why we rarely collaborate on topics. -Martin
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 16:02:34 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote: On 06/17/2015 08:35 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: You wouldn't just not go to work for two weeks and then show up at your desk as if nothing happened. This kind of stuff needs some level of planning, barring exceptional events. Yeah that didn't work too well, sorry for the trouble. I was extremely busy before dconf (that's part of why I missed my flight) and didn't spend much thought on the release. Probably didn't take it that serious, given how infrequently we handled it before. I was also under the impression that people were informed. http://forum.dlang.org/post/5554d763.1080...@dawg.eu That post says you'd be back on June 7th, whereas Andrei posted that he couldn't find you on June 17th. Typo? Interestingly this links back to our missing communication infrastructure. We should have regular (semi-public) meetings involving all core contributors to plan development, releases, and everything D. Private (irregular) email discussion don't cut it, b/c they leave most people uninformed. The newsgroup doesn't work either, b/c it's too busy with daily news. We pay a lot for the lack of communication (it's key in a more hierarchical structure), b/c noone but Walter and you can push something on the development agenda without a screaming rant on the newsgroup. This is a main reason why so much work gets stuck/killed in the pull request stage (who could have discussed it before), and also the main reason why we rarely collaborate on topics. All these and your suggestions in the linked thread seem like worthwhile improvements. The impression I get is that everyone in the core team is too busy with their real jobs, other than Walter, to make meetings easy to coordinate. Not sure of a ready solution for that.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 06/19/2015 02:41 PM, Jacques =?UTF-8?B?TcO8bGxlciI=?= jacques.muel...@gmx.de wrote: You could use a teamchat like Slack, HipChat, ChatGrape or even Let's Chat. Or irq.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Friday, 19 June 2015 at 16:02:34 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote: Interestingly this links back to our missing communication infrastructure. We should have regular (semi-public) meetings involving all core contributors to plan development, releases, and everything D. Private (irregular) email discussion don't cut it, b/c they leave most people uninformed. The newsgroup doesn't work either, b/c it's too busy with daily news. We pay a lot for the lack of communication (it's key in a more hierarchical structure), b/c noone but Walter and you can push something on the development agenda without a screaming rant on the newsgroup. This is a main reason why so much work gets stuck/killed in the pull request stage (who could have discussed it before), and also the main reason why we rarely collaborate on topics. -Martin You could use a teamchat like Slack, HipChat, ChatGrape or even Let's Chat.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 07:22:51 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: Yes - one gets so used to being able to reach people in the modern world, that a short period of disconnect leads to all kinds of concerns and doubts. Yes, it is interesting that new media creates new spaces and new types of perceived presence. In one way it is cute that people can worry about lack of presence (in the loving way) and if people feel they worried for no reason it is easy to get upset. I think everybody has experienced that one way or another. On the other hand it basically means that if you don't pick up your cellphone you end up having to explain what you were doing at the time. So you have to fight more for your privacy. I personally find that intrusive. So it might generally be difficult to get the _best_ person in a group to volunteer if you need high availability. It would be better to have a plan with milestones. Then you know which week participation is critical at least a month ahead. And really, for a compiler consistent quality is critically important, so getting more of the few best skilled people to volunteer is a lot more important than getting many lesser skilled to volunteer. The price is to make it enjoyable for skilled people to volunteer. Whatever it takes.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 10:09:45 UTC, Joakim wrote: Martin probably made a mistake by not making clear that he would be away from contact for a while, but I wonder if it was I don't think it matters if Martin did or did not make a mistake. Everybody make mistakes and talk past each other. Period. That's to be expected and can be addressed in an enjoyable manner, but is harder to do in written media (finding a path where the humour in the situation overtakes over the perceived seriousness). So we need to be conscious about finding those paths to the more loose non-formal atmosphere. What matters is that the community needs to pay the price of having skilled people volunteer. And the only payment to available is to make the task enjoyable. Most people find the more loose non-formal atmosphere enjoyable, I think.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:22:13 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? Merge dmd, druntime, phobos repos.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 10:09:44 +, Joakim wrote: basically nobody wants to do, as it has responsibilities but basically no compensating reward, and by removing Martin from the role, you might actually have made his life easier! It doesn't sound like a punishment to me. exactly. being free of that work is a blessing. especially if we consider the absense of working non-abstract roadmap (and even if there will be one, how can people be forced to work on it instead of working on what they want to?). Andrei is passionate, but little too harsh. at least that's how i see it. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 09:05:27 UTC, Marc Schütz wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github access will remain the same for the time being. I'm speechless. +1 On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 11:14:25 UTC, ketmar wrote: On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 04:21:10 +, IgorStepanov wrote: This is international forum and we may allow only one kind of intolerance: we may hate programmers, which doesn't use D yet. we shouldn't hate them. they are poor people that simply can't see The Light yet. but even php coder can become a programmer. and programmer can become D programmer. Well said!
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 04:21:10 +, IgorStepanov wrote: This is international forum and we may allow only one kind of intolerance: we may hate programmers, which doesn't use D yet. we shouldn't hate them. they are poor people that simply can't see The Light yet. but even php coder can become a programmer. and programmer can become D programmer. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 6/17/15 5:38 AM, IgorStepanov wrote: He returned back to github and posted some messages. End alarm:) Glad to hear that. However, the need for two other release managers is still there. The role of Release Manager and This Week In D are the two ones somewhat special in the community: they're closest to an actual job, in the sense that regularity and professionalism are crucial. You need to show up and do it. If This Week in D is not there on Sunday evening, it's not a weekly. If we have no release manager and no contingency plan, we can't release. In the future we'll have folks depending on this and planning ahead for it. You wouldn't just not go to work for two weeks and then show up at your desk as if nothing happened. This kind of stuff needs some level of planning, barring exceptional events. For example, Adam could tell his readership I'll be on vacation next week, so no issue on August 9. Which is totally fine. I'm very happy Martin is doing well but I am disappointed about this unprofessional behavior. In fact I could only assume the worst because he seemed one of the most serious people I've dealt with, so this came as quite a major breakage of trust. With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github access will remain the same for the time being. Until a replacement is found I will fumble with the release process myself, and I could use all the help I can get. In fact it would be a nice gesture of Martin to help with the transition. I'll be also counting on help from the more process-oriented members of the community. One note - 2.068 will be delayed because I have a house move to deal with for the time being, not to mention being busy with std.allocator and std.collection. Thanks, Andrei As others have said this seems a bit harsh. I presume that by 'we' you mean that yourself and Walter arrived at this decision together? If you really felt the need to remove Martin from this position, the appropriate way would have been to discuss this matter with him privately, rather than effectively firing him on a public forum. That also comes across as somewhat unprofessional. Based on the the discussion on the forum it appears that the manner in which this decision has been executed has effectively alienated pretty every good candidate who might have been a replacement ... in addition to almost starting an OT religious holy war.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 02:00:41 +, Etienne wrote: On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 20:58:38 UTC, ketmar wrote: On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:45:26 +, Etienne wrote: My point is, we need to be able to extend it to build and link an application with a custom druntime/phobos/dmd version from source. exactly what you can do with Reggae. now Reggae needs a good package manager, which dub isn't. I'm not sure how you put 2 and 2 together to come up with Reggae. It seems to be an executable generator with a build configuration. It leaves it up to the user to come up with D code to figure out the build. I'm talking about cloning phobos/druntime/dmd github repositories and automatically building them. No messing around with environment variables and such. ah, that's easy: simply include Reggae build script into the package. even half-assed package managers can include custom install/build scripts into packages and execute them. so is dub is package manager... signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 20:58:38 UTC, ketmar wrote: On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:45:26 +, Etienne wrote: My point is, we need to be able to extend it to build and link an application with a custom druntime/phobos/dmd version from source. exactly what you can do with Reggae. now Reggae needs a good package manager, which dub isn't. I'm not sure how you put 2 and 2 together to come up with Reggae. It seems to be an executable generator with a build configuration. It leaves it up to the user to come up with D code to figure out the build. I'm talking about cloning phobos/druntime/dmd github repositories and automatically building them. No messing around with environment variables and such.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:14:28 +, Etienne wrote: Not every package manager has to provide binaries. We simply build the packages through dub. dub+dmd is a good source package manager in itself, we need to write a dub.json for dmd/druntime/phobos and make it possible to compile them through dub, then all is good i never talked about binaries. what i'm talking about is that dub is not a package manager at all. how can i get a list of available packages? how can i search by package name or in package descriptions? using web site is not an option, that functionality should be built-in. how can i get compilation flags and dependencies from dub without parsing json, so i can use dub in my build system? (luckily, that seems to be fixed in recent versions, at least i've seen PRs for that) so i prefer to think about dub and it's packages as dependency downloader, but package manager. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 13:40:43 UTC, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: As others have said this seems a bit harsh. I presume that by 'we' you mean that yourself and Walter arrived at this decision together? If you really felt the need to remove Martin from this position, the appropriate way would have been to discuss this matter with him privately, rather than effectively firing him on a public forum. That also comes across as somewhat unprofessional. Exactly. One reason why people may decide to contribute to D, is because they'd like to add it to their resume (a small piece of compensation for their time). However, these forums can and do show up in Google searches and publicly outing somebody using their full name, is unprofessional in this context. Now the one small benefit he may have gotten from contributing, is potentially squashed due to carelessness on the leadership of this community. As a potential contributor, seeing this, is a non-starter. Based on the the discussion on the forum it appears that the manner in which this decision has been executed has effectively alienated pretty every good candidate who might have been a replacement ... in addition to almost starting an OT religious holy war. This entire thread has reflected poorly on the D community. Perhaps the leadership here should take some tips from the Rust guys and look to improve their handling with the VOLUNTEERS. If I was Andrei, I'd publicly apologize to Martin for handling this so damn poorly and thank him for his work as volunteer (as many have stated the guy seems to do good work for this community). If I was Martin, I would not continue on as the release guy, but this kind of gesture might give some hope to those out there in the community. Part of being a professional is understanding the context you are in and behaving appropriately. This is not a corporation paying employees. This is an opensource project utilizing volunteers who get very little in return.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 13:51:05 +, Etienne wrote: On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 12:37:15 UTC, Dragos Carp wrote: On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:22:13 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? Merge dmd, druntime, phobos repos. If I was release Czar, even DMD would just be a dub package. Let them be managed packages that can be selected by version, with many options! That, my friends, is the way. but there is still no package manager, though. dub is not a package manager. and it's impossible to write one without scraping code.dlang.org too, as there is no API to get package list, or packages that was updated since the date. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 16:41:51 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I definitely am sorry for not handling this better. What I should have done in retrospect is to resume efforts to reach Martin privately after evidence came about that he's alive and well, then discuss reasonable communication expectations with him, and only after that resume the public search for more release czars. I apologize to Martin and the community for not taking that course of action. We definitely need to move forward to having more release czars, which reduces the demands on each. I'll do my best to learn the ropes and document the process. Andrei Amen.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 06/18/2015 12:41 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I definitely am sorry for not handling this better. What I should have done in retrospect is to resume efforts to reach Martin privately after evidence came about that he's alive and well, then discuss reasonable communication expectations with him, and only after that resume the public search for more release czars. I apologize to Martin and the community for not taking that course of action. We definitely need to move forward to having more release czars, which reduces the demands on each. I'll do my best to learn the ropes and document the process. I'm not sure I can commit to any guarantees, at least not on the level of a primary release czar anyway, but I'd be willing to pitch in when needed as a secondary or backup or such. I'd just need a better idea of what exactly the role entails. If you can document the process as you suggest here, that would be a big help.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 18:55:52 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On 06/18/2015 12:41 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: [...] I'm not sure I can commit to any guarantees, at least not on the level of a primary release czar anyway, but I'd be willing to pitch in when needed as a secondary or backup or such. I'd just need a better idea of what exactly the role entails. If you can document the process as you suggest here, that would be a big help. this, I'd be happy to help with smaller tasks. Maybe expecting one or two people to do the entire process is too much.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 06/18/2015 07:14 AM, ketmar wrote: On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 04:21:10 +, IgorStepanov wrote: This is international forum and we may allow only one kind of intolerance: we may hate programmers, which doesn't use D yet. we shouldn't hate them. they are poor people that simply can't see The Light yet. but even php coder can become a programmer. and programmer can become D programmer. It was a joke.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:30:59 UTC, ketmar wrote: On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:14:28 +, Etienne wrote: [...] i never talked about binaries. what i'm talking about is that dub is not a package manager at all. how can i get a list of available packages? how can i search by package name or in package descriptions? using web site is not an option, that functionality should be built-in. how can i get compilation flags and dependencies from dub without parsing json, so i can use dub in my build system? (luckily, that seems to be fixed in recent versions, at least i've seen PRs for that) so i prefer to think about dub and it's packages as dependency downloader, but package manager. dub is a build tool with an automatic dependency solver, it really shouldn't be called a package manager.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 06/18/2015 10:30 AM, ketmar wrote: i never talked about binaries. what i'm talking about is that dub is not a package manager at all. how can i get a list of available packages? how can i search by package name or in package descriptions? using web site is not an option, that functionality should be built-in. Those sound like excellent ideas for new pull requests. https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dub/compare
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:43:15 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: To wit, I wrote this to Martin and Walter on May 31st: Today is May 31st, so we're entering the last month of H1. I'd like to get an early start on updating the vision document, and before creating yet another rambling thread on the forum I thought we should start between the three of us. What do you guys think would be the main points to attack in H2? Martin, it's particularly important to hear from you. I hope it's clearer that it was quite unsettling to not hear back about that or anything else. Regarding the volunteer vs. paid employee aspect - clearly that's a problem. All I can do now is work on the foundation and hope to find sponsors that would allow us to pay the release manager, the keeper of This Week in D and others. About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated fruitless attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, privately, is of course the right way and the one I've tried through all channels I could think of. So you can't get a hold of him by email for a few weeks, thus you feel justified in publicly outing him on a forum? This could have still been done far more discretely with a conscious attempt to avoid addressing him directly in any negative overtones. Your inability to recognize this mistake illustrates a fundamental disconnect I think you are having. Building the process is a difficult and very important job. It stands to reason, then, that we need several folks who can do it and cover contingencies. Martin and I are in talks about building this release together; it would be great if we could get a broader participation. You are very lucky that Martin has decided to *continue* to help you out. Again, a good sign that your characterization of the guy was malformed.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:37:08 UTC, ketmar wrote: dub is a build tool with an automatic dependency solver, it really shouldn't be called a package manager. and it's not a build tool too. or, it's a build tool in the sense of bash is a build tool -- it can call external commands. Reggae is a build toold. dub is not a build tool. It doesn't matter. Even if everything is locked into code.dlang.org or if you're using a custom shell in the dub.json to clone a git and use that path in the options, or if you're programming shell scripts for every OS. Any interface works as long as it does what it's supposed to do for the said package. My point is, we need to be able to extend it to build and link an application with a custom druntime/phobos/dmd version from source. These libraries are the backbone of every application.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
Thanks all for the feedback; a follow up is in order seeing as there are a few misunderstandings of the situation. First off, framing this matter as impinging on someone's vacation is a misinterpretation. Taking time off has nothing to do with it - anyone should. Just Walter, myself, the This Week in D author, and the release manager please let us know so things can be planned accordingly. To thrive, we need to expand the inner circle of folks who are closely involved with D to the extent the community knows why they're missing when they're missing. Currently that circle includes only Walter and myself; if either of us would go dark for weeks without the other (and others) knowing, that'd be worrisome. To wit, I wrote this to Martin and Walter on May 31st: Today is May 31st, so we're entering the last month of H1. I'd like to get an early start on updating the vision document, and before creating yet another rambling thread on the forum I thought we should start between the three of us. What do you guys think would be the main points to attack in H2? Martin, it's particularly important to hear from you. I hope it's clearer that it was quite unsettling to not hear back about that or anything else. Regarding the volunteer vs. paid employee aspect - clearly that's a problem. All I can do now is work on the foundation and hope to find sponsors that would allow us to pay the release manager, the keeper of This Week in D and others. About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated fruitless attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, privately, is of course the right way and the one I've tried through all channels I could think of. Building the process is a difficult and very important job. It stands to reason, then, that we need several folks who can do it and cover contingencies. Martin and I are in talks about building this release together; it would be great if we could get a broader participation. There's one more note of interest: This is off-putting for me as someone who is getting steadily more involved in D, what other implicit contracts do you think we've all signed? None, of course. Far as I can tell the dynamics are as follows: * Walter and I can be counted on being around barring announced absences or exceptional circumstances. * Adam D. Ruppe, Walter, and I discussed that there will be consistency of This Week in D. Announced outages are fine, I'll do it when/if I get to it is not. * The release managers should be counted on for planning and reliably carrying the release. I am now sorry I wasn't clearer about that. * There are a few folks with particularly important roles: Iain (GDC), Kai (LDC), Brad (autotester), and Vladimir (forum and a variety of tools). If any of these would suddenly leave, the community would be in difficulty. They work independently and I wish we found ways to pay them and coordinate better with them, but there is no implied or express expectation. * There are a number of heavy-hitting contributors (such as Daniel, Kenji, and about a dozen others) who have a strong positive impact. Again there is no expectation they're around. * Up-and-coming contributors are always welcome and we should improve our tooling to make it easy for anyone to contribute. Probably the best action item is this: I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? I know nightly builds have been discussed for years, and it would be great to take advantage of the multi-platform infrastructure of the current autotester for it, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. Yah, ideally the autotester would just build the release as well for each platform on the same machines it's using. Sadly Brad wouldn't want to take that task. One thing I'll be trying to work on with Martin is a directory under tools/ that contains reasonably stable release building scripts for all platforms. Andrei
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:43:15 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Thanks all for the feedback; a follow up is in order seeing as there are a few misunderstandings of the situation. [...] clip Yah, ideally the autotester would just build the release as well for each platform on the same machines it's using. Sadly Brad wouldn't want to take that task. [...] Since I was one of those to criticize, let me be the one of the first to say thanks to Andrei for posting this response. Glad to hear Martin will still be involved in the release process. Hope you enjoyed your holiday Martin :o)
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 6/18/15 9:19 AM, Timon Gehr wrote: On 06/18/2015 04:43 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated fruitless attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, privately, is of course the right way and the one I've tried through all channels I could think of. I think the first post was more adequate than the second one. Basically, a more eloquent version of the following would have sufficed: Glad to hear that. However, the need for two other release managers is still there. The role of Release Manager and This Week In D are the two somewhat special in the community: regularity is crucial. If we have no release manager and no contingency plan, we can't release. I definitely am sorry for not handling this better. What I should have done in retrospect is to resume efforts to reach Martin privately after evidence came about that he's alive and well, then discuss reasonable communication expectations with him, and only after that resume the public search for more release czars. I apologize to Martin and the community for not taking that course of action. We definitely need to move forward to having more release czars, which reduces the demands on each. I'll do my best to learn the ropes and document the process. Andrei
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:32:12 +, weaselcat wrote: On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:30:59 UTC, ketmar wrote: On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:14:28 +, Etienne wrote: [...] i never talked about binaries. what i'm talking about is that dub is not a package manager at all. how can i get a list of available packages? how can i search by package name or in package descriptions? using web site is not an option, that functionality should be built-in. how can i get compilation flags and dependencies from dub without parsing json, so i can use dub in my build system? (luckily, that seems to be fixed in recent versions, at least i've seen PRs for that) so i prefer to think about dub and it's packages as dependency downloader, but package manager. dub is a build tool with an automatic dependency solver, it really shouldn't be called a package manager. and it's not a build tool too. or, it's a build tool in the sense of bash is a build tool -- it can call external commands. Reggae is a build toold. dub is not a build tool. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 16:41:51 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 6/18/15 9:19 AM, Timon Gehr wrote: On 06/18/2015 04:43 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated fruitless attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, privately, is of course the right way and the one I've tried through all channels I could think of. I think the first post was more adequate than the second one. Basically, a more eloquent version of the following would have sufficed: Glad to hear that. However, the need for two other release managers is still there. The role of Release Manager and This Week In D are the two somewhat special in the community: regularity is crucial. If we have no release manager and no contingency plan, we can't release. I definitely am sorry for not handling this better. What I should have done in retrospect is to resume efforts to reach Martin privately after evidence came about that he's alive and well, then discuss reasonable communication expectations with him, and only after that resume the public search for more release czars. I apologize to Martin and the community for not taking that course of action. We definitely need to move forward to having more release czars, which reduces the demands on each. I'll do my best to learn the ropes and document the process. Andrei Respect - both for having high standards, and for this message. Laeeth.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 06/18/2015 10:43 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: One thing I'll be trying to work on with Martin is a directory under tools/ that contains reasonably stable release building scripts for all platforms. What happened to the one I contributed last year? If there's bitrot or other issues that needs addressing, then by all means, either ping me @ GitHub or email me at nick1 @ my domain name in this message's header. Both are set up to go straight to my phone.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:08:31 UTC, ketmar wrote: On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 13:51:05 +, Etienne wrote: On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 12:37:15 UTC, Dragos Carp wrote: On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:22:13 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? Merge dmd, druntime, phobos repos. If I was release Czar, even DMD would just be a dub package. Let them be managed packages that can be selected by version, with many options! That, my friends, is the way. but there is still no package manager, though. dub is not a package manager. and it's impossible to write one without scraping code.dlang.org too, as there is no API to get package list, or packages that was updated since the date. Not every package manager has to provide binaries. We simply build the packages through dub. dub+dmd is a good source package manager in itself, we need to write a dub.json for dmd/druntime/phobos and make it possible to compile them through dub, then all is good
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:43:15 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: [...] Yes, D need more people, more sponsors, the most... Unfortunately, the development of language is carried out slowly enough bug fixes too slowly. I learn more D six months and I have to admit that whatever you do, it all looks very slowly and slightly. We need more people, but no one knows where to look for them :) And, yes, you definitely need a second release czar! More people for the development of D. We need to look for them promptly, otherwise the development will go is still very slow.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 18 June 2015 at 16:43, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Thanks all for the feedback; a follow up is in order seeing as there are a few misunderstandings of the situation. First off, framing this matter as impinging on someone's vacation is a misinterpretation. Taking time off has nothing to do with it - anyone should. Just Walter, myself, the This Week in D author, and the release manager please let us know so things can be planned accordingly. To thrive, we need to expand the inner circle of folks who are closely involved with D to the extent the community knows why they're missing when they're missing. Currently that circle includes only Walter and myself; if either of us would go dark for weeks without the other (and others) knowing, that'd be worrisome. To wit, I wrote this to Martin and Walter on May 31st: Today is May 31st, so we're entering the last month of H1. I'd like to get an early start on updating the vision document, and before creating yet another rambling thread on the forum I thought we should start between the three of us. What do you guys think would be the main points to attack in H2? Martin, it's particularly important to hear from you. I hope it's clearer that it was quite unsettling to not hear back about that or anything else. Regarding the volunteer vs. paid employee aspect - clearly that's a problem. All I can do now is work on the foundation and hope to find sponsors that would allow us to pay the release manager, the keeper of This Week in D and others. About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated fruitless attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, privately, is of course the right way and the one I've tried through all channels I could think of. Building the process is a difficult and very important job. It stands to reason, then, that we need several folks who can do it and cover contingencies. Martin and I are in talks about building this release together; it would be great if we could get a broader participation. There's one more note of interest: This is off-putting for me as someone who is getting steadily more involved in D, what other implicit contracts do you think we've all signed? None, of course. Far as I can tell the dynamics are as follows: * Walter and I can be counted on being around barring announced absences or exceptional circumstances. * Adam D. Ruppe, Walter, and I discussed that there will be consistency of This Week in D. Announced outages are fine, I'll do it when/if I get to it is not. * The release managers should be counted on for planning and reliably carrying the release. I am now sorry I wasn't clearer about that. * There are a few folks with particularly important roles: Iain (GDC), Kai (LDC), Brad (autotester), and Vladimir (forum and a variety of tools). If any of these would suddenly leave, the community would be in difficulty. They work independently and I wish we found ways to pay them and coordinate better with them, but there is no implied or express expectation. Not just GDC, but the whole GNU toolchain support for D too. Iain
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 12:37:15 UTC, Dragos Carp wrote: On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:22:13 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? Merge dmd, druntime, phobos repos. If I was release Czar, even DMD would just be a dub package. Let them be managed packages that can be selected by version, with many options! That, my friends, is the way.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 14:43:15 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Thanks all for the feedback; a follow up is in order seeing as there are a few misunderstandings of the situation. First off, framing this matter as impinging on someone's vacation is a misinterpretation. Taking time off has nothing to do with it - anyone should. Just Walter, myself, the This Week in D author, and the release manager please let us know so things can be planned accordingly. To thrive, we need to expand the inner circle of folks who are closely involved with D to the extent the community knows why they're missing when they're missing. Currently that circle includes only Walter and myself; if either of us would go dark for weeks without the other (and others) knowing, that'd be worrisome. To wit, I wrote this to Martin and Walter on May 31st: Today is May 31st, so we're entering the last month of H1. I'd like to get an early start on updating the vision document, and before creating yet another rambling thread on the forum I thought we should start between the three of us. What do you guys think would be the main points to attack in H2? Martin, it's particularly important to hear from you. I hope it's clearer that it was quite unsettling to not hear back about that or anything else. Regarding the volunteer vs. paid employee aspect - clearly that's a problem. All I can do now is work on the foundation and hope to find sponsors that would allow us to pay the release manager, the keeper of This Week in D and others. About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated fruitless attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, privately, is of course the right way and the one I've tried through all channels I could think of. Building the process is a difficult and very important job. It stands to reason, then, that we need several folks who can do it and cover contingencies. Martin and I are in talks about building this release together; it would be great if we could get a broader participation. There's one more note of interest: This is off-putting for me as someone who is getting steadily more involved in D, what other implicit contracts do you think we've all signed? None, of course. Far as I can tell the dynamics are as follows: * Walter and I can be counted on being around barring announced absences or exceptional circumstances. * Adam D. Ruppe, Walter, and I discussed that there will be consistency of This Week in D. Announced outages are fine, I'll do it when/if I get to it is not. * The release managers should be counted on for planning and reliably carrying the release. I am now sorry I wasn't clearer about that. * There are a few folks with particularly important roles: Iain (GDC), Kai (LDC), Brad (autotester), and Vladimir (forum and a variety of tools). If any of these would suddenly leave, the community would be in difficulty. They work independently and I wish we found ways to pay them and coordinate better with them, but there is no implied or express expectation. * There are a number of heavy-hitting contributors (such as Daniel, Kenji, and about a dozen others) who have a strong positive impact. Again there is no expectation they're around. * Up-and-coming contributors are always welcome and we should improve our tooling to make it easy for anyone to contribute. Probably the best action item is this: I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? I know nightly builds have been discussed for years, and it would be great to take advantage of the multi-platform infrastructure of the current autotester for it, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. Yah, ideally the autotester would just build the release as well for each platform on the same machines it's using. Sadly Brad wouldn't want to take that task. One thing I'll be trying to work on with Martin is a directory under tools/ that contains reasonably stable release building scripts for all platforms. Andrei It sounds to me like you are legitimately doing everything you can, that is great Without people like you, things don't get done. Just remember, some people need a break from things, get upset over stupid immature stuff or misunderstandings. Remember, some people are more emotionally equipped, or less, depending on your perspective, to deal with things(life, arguments, etc). My gut reaction was that you simply overreacted thinking either he jumped the boat or got hit by one. Chances are neither happened since those are the extremes(of course, you were hoping for one or the other so your disappointment would be unfounded). I would simply say, relax! ;) Solve the problem and move on! Don't get caught up in it all. Find another *whatever* his job was, someone to help him with the work load, or talk to him about whatever got his panties in a
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 06/18/2015 04:43 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: About the privacy aspect - the forum post came after repeated fruitless attempts of private contact. Addressing matters in person, privately, is of course the right way and the one I've tried through all channels I could think of. I think the first post was more adequate than the second one. Basically, a more eloquent version of the following would have sufficed: Glad to hear that. However, the need for two other release managers is still there. The role of Release Manager and This Week In D are the two somewhat special in the community: regularity is crucial. If we have no release manager and no contingency plan, we can't release.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 16:41:51 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I definitely am sorry for not handling this better. What I should have done in retrospect is to resume efforts to reach Martin privately after evidence came about that he's alive and well, then discuss reasonable communication expectations with him, and only after that resume the public search for more release czars. I apologize to Martin and the community for not taking that course of action. Now you are talking! Thanks for being humble enough, I was a bit scared for your second post, but now I think everything is fine! :) Matheus.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 06/18/2015 09:40 AM, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: Based on the the discussion on the forum it appears that the manner in which this decision has been executed has [...] ... in addition to almost starting an OT religious holy war. That was just an unrelated drive-by-spamming by a random troll with a rather weak attempt to make his (their? ;) ) trolling *appear* somehow, kind-of, related to the message he replied to.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 14:45:26 +, Etienne wrote: My point is, we need to be able to extend it to build and link an application with a custom druntime/phobos/dmd version from source. exactly what you can do with Reggae. now Reggae needs a good package manager, which dub isn't. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:40:21 -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On 06/18/2015 10:30 AM, ketmar wrote: i never talked about binaries. what i'm talking about is that dub is not a package manager at all. how can i get a list of available packages? how can i search by package name or in package descriptions? using web site is not an option, that functionality should be built-in. Those sound like excellent ideas for new pull requests. https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dub/compare sadly, i can't PR on web API, as i don't have mongodb, and i know nothing about it (except i don't want to know more about it ;-). so the only real thing i can do is to be irritatingly vocal about that features, in the hope that someone will write 'em. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:34:43 -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On 06/18/2015 07:14 AM, ketmar wrote: On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 04:21:10 +, IgorStepanov wrote: This is international forum and we may allow only one kind of intolerance: we may hate programmers, which doesn't use D yet. we shouldn't hate them. they are poor people that simply can't see The Light yet. but even php coder can become a programmer. and programmer can become D programmer. It was a joke. i was joking too. ah, the constant problem with my jokes: nobody gets 'em. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 06/18/2015 05:13 PM, ketmar wrote: On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:34:43 -0400, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On 06/18/2015 07:14 AM, ketmar wrote: On Thu, 18 Jun 2015 04:21:10 +, IgorStepanov wrote: This is international forum and we may allow only one kind of intolerance: we may hate programmers, which doesn't use D yet. we shouldn't hate them. they are poor people that simply can't see The Light yet. but even php coder can become a programmer. and programmer can become D programmer. It was a joke. i was joking too. ah, the constant problem with my jokes: nobody gets 'em. The joke's on me. :) Didn't read it closely enough!
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 04:05:55 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote: On 18/06/2015 3:48 p.m., dnewbie wrote: I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for release, and it yielded actual results. Indeed. +1 and I do not do so/say so lightly. Everything could probably have been avoided if only all key personel had shared phone numbers, mobile inet is often prohibitly expensive while abroad, but sms remains acceptable...
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 23:47:26 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: [...] There is a very important difference with an actual job: an actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level of commitment from a volunteer than an employee. I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for release, and it yielded actual results. +1
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: You wouldn't just not go to work for two weeks and then show up at your desk as if nothing happened. This kind of stuff needs some level of planning, barring exceptional events. For example, Adam could tell his readership I'll be on vacation next week, so no issue on August 9. Which is totally fine. I'm very happy Martin is doing well but I am disappointed about this unprofessional behavior. In fact I could only assume the worst because he seemed one of the most serious people I've dealt with, so this came as quite a major breakage of trust. With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github access will remain the same for the time being. Until a replacement is found I will fumble with the release process myself, and I could use all the help I can get. In fact it would be a nice gesture of Martin to help with the transition. I'll be also counting on help from the more process-oriented members of the community. One note - 2.068 will be delayed because I have a house move to deal with for the time being, not to mention being busy with std.allocator and std.collection. As most others here have noted, this seems too harsh, particularly for a volunteer position. The truth is that release manager is a role that basically nobody wants to do, as it has responsibilities but basically no compensating reward, and by removing Martin from the role, you might actually have made his life easier! It doesn't sound like a punishment to me. As I recall, our last release manager also disappeared for awhile, likely because he had a real job to do. Martin probably made a mistake by not making clear that he would be away from contact for a while, but I wonder if it was ever made clear to him that a head's up was expected, particularly if a release wasn't imminent. I understand that you would like for us to evolve from a tribe to an organization, but I always thought that was unrealistic for a volunteer community with essentially no money coming in. The fact is nobody is paying Martin to show up at a release manager desk every day. Unless and until companies using D, like Facebook, Sociomantic, EMSI, and whoever else is using the work of this community to make money for themselves, deign to invest back some money behind functions like these- release manager could probably be done as a half-time position- they will not be done to the standards of a commercial entity. Which is likely fine with the rest of this volunteer community, as we can't ask for what we're not willing to chip into providing either.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 06:54:53 UTC, Daniel N wrote: On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 04:05:55 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote: On 18/06/2015 3:48 p.m., dnewbie wrote: I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for release, and it yielded actual results. Indeed. +1 and I do not do so/say so lightly. Everything could probably have been avoided if only all key personel had shared phone numbers, mobile inet is often prohibitly expensive while abroad, but sms remains acceptable... Yes - one gets so used to being able to reach people in the modern world, that a short period of disconnect leads to all kinds of concerns and doubts. There is a fine balance to be struck between wanting to maintain an admirably high standard of professionalism and excellence, and being excessively harsh in enforcing such a standard - particularly in a public forum. The problem is also the medium doesn't lend itself to nuance, and modern people don't tend to think that way either.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 23:47:26 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: [...] There is a very important difference with an actual job: an actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level of commitment from a volunteer than an employee. I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for release, and it yielded actual results. +1 D wouldn't have anyone doing any work at all, professional or not, without goodwill and enthusiasm.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github access will remain the same for the time being. Thanks, Andrei https://sonnekfit.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/anchorman.jpg
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 6/17/2015 4:29 AM, berlin wrote: [...] This is out of place here. Please stop.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I'm very happy Martin is doing well but I am disappointed about this unprofessional behavior. In fact I could only assume the worst because he seemed one of the most serious people I've dealt with, so this came as quite a major breakage of trust. With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github access will remain the same for the time being. We have limited resources. Don't squeeze them out by ruling with an iron fist on laws only you were aware of. I'm pretty sure if Martin knew that you saw it as unacceptable to be away for a brief period he would have made preparations. This is off-putting for me as someone who is getting steadily more involved in D, what other implicit contracts do you think we've all signed?
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 08:35:12 UTC, John Colvin wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 23:47:26 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: [...] There is a very important difference with an actual job: an actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level of commitment from a volunteer than an employee. I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for release, and it yielded actual results. +1 D wouldn't have anyone doing any work at all, professional or not, without goodwill and enthusiasm. I'm a bit of a nobody here, but for an outsiders point of view looking at this forum this looks very bad. A small community that can't even get along. Very harsh decision I feel.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 09:05:27 UTC, Marc Schütz wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github access will remain the same for the time being. I'm speechless. +1
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github access will remain the same for the time being. I'm speechless.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
angry - yes after getting stabbed on my way home from work with an allahu akbar. hate - no. i despise the muslim religion for its pedophile men (and prophet) marrying 9 yr. old girls, beheading people because they are no muslims, raping themselves through the middle east and thinking of christians, jews and women as creatures lesser than dogs. i don't want to learn anything from muslims - believe it or not, i watch the news and would have to degenerate a couple of hundred years to think like a muslim. maybe you should take a look at these links and learn a little bit about your religion, since the links content illustrate the sad truth. well this was my last post, sorry if i offended someone. On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:28:52 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:16:09 UTC, berlin wrote: well, read something to your world situation. take it from an old kufr that dos not want to live under islamic law: http://www.jihadwatch.org/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ http://www.barenakedislam.com/ http://schnellmann.org/Understanding_Muhammad_Contents.html you might also want to take a closer look at taqiyya - that is why nobody can trust a muslim. It's your anger and hate you need to take a hard look at, it's taking you to a dark place. Whatever it is that's really eating you, I doubt it's the muslims that caused it. BTW if you want to learn about Islam, learn it from a muslim and not hate propagation sites.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 6/17/15 5:38 AM, IgorStepanov wrote: He returned back to github and posted some messages. End alarm:) Glad to hear that. However, the need for two other release managers is still there. The role of Release Manager and This Week In D are the two ones somewhat special in the community: they're closest to an actual job, in the sense that regularity and professionalism are crucial. You need to show up and do it. If This Week in D is not there on Sunday evening, it's not a weekly. If we have no release manager and no contingency plan, we can't release. In the future we'll have folks depending on this and planning ahead for it. You wouldn't just not go to work for two weeks and then show up at your desk as if nothing happened. This kind of stuff needs some level of planning, barring exceptional events. For example, Adam could tell his readership I'll be on vacation next week, so no issue on August 9. Which is totally fine. I'm very happy Martin is doing well but I am disappointed about this unprofessional behavior. In fact I could only assume the worst because he seemed one of the most serious people I've dealt with, so this came as quite a major breakage of trust. With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github access will remain the same for the time being. Until a replacement is found I will fumble with the release process myself, and I could use all the help I can get. In fact it would be a nice gesture of Martin to help with the transition. I'll be also counting on help from the more process-oriented members of the community. One note - 2.068 will be delayed because I have a house move to deal with for the time being, not to mention being busy with std.allocator and std.collection. Thanks, Andrei
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: The role of Release Manager and This Week In D are the two ones somewhat special in the community: they're closest to an actual job, in the sense that regularity and professionalism are crucial. You need to show up and do it. If This Week in D is not there on Sunday evening, it's not a weekly. If we have no release manager and no contingency plan, we can't release. In the future we'll have folks depending on this and planning ahead for it. There is a very important difference with an actual job: an actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level of commitment from a volunteer than an employee. I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for release, and it yielded actual results.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 14:35:47 -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote: With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github access will remain the same for the time being. Shame! http://i.imgur.com/OyLhxfc.gif Bit
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 23:47:26 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: [...] There is a very important difference with an actual job: an actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level of commitment from a volunteer than an employee. I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for release, and it yielded actual results. Someone paid $100,000/yr gets 1 mo of vacation. At $35,000/yr you get 2 weeks of vacation. $10/h gets 1 week of vacation. See where I'm getting at? ^^
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 23:47:26 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: The role of Release Manager and This Week In D are the two ones somewhat special in the community: they're closest to an actual job, in the sense that regularity and professionalism are crucial. You need to show up and do it. If This Week in D is not there on Sunday evening, it's not a weekly. If we have no release manager and no contingency plan, we can't release. In the future we'll have folks depending on this and planning ahead for it. There is a very important difference with an actual job: an actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level of commitment from a volunteer than an employee. I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for release, and it yielded actual results. With an official position in the dlang organization with certain responsibilities, I don't think that it's necessarily unreasonable to expect certain things from the person who's in that position (like being able to contact them within a certain period of time unless they've communicated ahead of time that they won't be available). However, that level of commitment needs to be understood by those involved, whereas it seems like it was just assumed by Andrei. And normally, Martin _is_ contactable within a fairly short period of time. It's just that he went on vacation first without communicating that. He probably should have been more contactable than he was, but sometimes that happens when you're on vacation. So, if we want to place certain requirements of contactability or punctuality or whatnot on volunteers in certain positions of responsibility, then I don't see a problem with that, but that needs to be clear up front, and I don't think that it was. So, this definitely seems like an overreaction to me on Andrei's part, especially when you consider how on top of things Martin usually is. That being said, I think that this does highlight how we need to have multiple people involved in the release process so that having one person go on vacation doesn't bring things to a halt, and for official responsibilities that are time-sensitive, we probably do need to have those involved communicating ahead of time when they're not going to be available for a week or more. - Jonathan M Davis
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Tue, 16 Jun 2015 22:16:37 -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote: We are therefore looking for a new release czar. On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 22:53:59 -0400, Morbid.Obesity morbid.obes...@mail.com wrote: Of course, then we'll be all sick from having no immunity from all the bugs that have learned to eat us. I don't think digression quite covers this.. I vote we coin a new term. Bit
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 01:01:09 UTC, Lost Indian wrote: BTW if you want to learn about Islam, learn it from a muslim and not hate propagation sites. Do that at your own risk. Many in Europe did that and ended up converting to this cult. There is a tenet of Islam called Taqiyya that one should be aware of before going to a Muslim and asking him for Islamic teachings. Search for Taqiyya on Google and be fearless. - A Lost Indian I didn't expect to see this kind of hate on a programming forum... I know lots of Muslims. Even married a Muslim (atheist myself). Most great people. In general, very modest, hard working, and loving. Sure I've met some bad seeds, but I've met some pretty bad seeds in every demographic. There's over a billion Muslims and growing. And just as in any religion the way it is practiced is very diverse and often influenced by culture. If you go to southern and central Africa, you will see very similar behavior as in the mid-east, but in a more Christian society. But even in these cultures there are great people. Their voices just get spoken over by the louder more extreme individuals. I recommend getting outside of your bubble to gain a much larger perspective.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 6/17/15 5:38 AM, IgorStepanov wrote: You wouldn't just not go to work for two weeks and then show up at your desk as if nothing happened. This kind of stuff needs some level of planning, barring exceptional events. For example, Adam could tell his readership I'll be on vacation next week, so no issue on August 9. Which is totally fine. I'm very happy Martin is doing well but I am disappointed about this unprofessional behavior. WTF? The guy went on vacation. He's doing what you describe as good work for free. This isn't just strange, it's unrealistic on your part. In fact I could only assume the worst because he seemed one of the most serious people I've dealt with, so this came as quite a major breakage of trust. Again WTF? He went on vacation. With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github access will remain the same for the time being. Oh, yay, you will allow him to work for free still... Until a replacement is found I will fumble with the release process myself, and I could use all the help I can get. In fact it would be a nice gesture of Martin to help with the transition. Diminish a guy as unprofessional, demote him, and then ask for his help? This is not the way to encourage people to get involved in this community. In fact, as an outsider, I was looking to contribute to an opensource language (with D being the one I was really considering), but this just turned me completely off from participating here. The guy went on vacation for gosh sakes. I'll be also counting on help from the more process-oriented members of the community. One note - 2.068 will be delayed because I have a house move to deal with for the time being, not to mention being busy with std.allocator and std.collection. Release positions are not exactly and enticing role. So good luck with this having this particular attitude
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github access will remain the same for the time being. I think that was unnecessarily harsh and unilateral, not to mention demotivating (to both Martin and any people who considered the role). What do you mean by for the time being exactly? We are therefore looking for a new release czar. I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? I know nightly builds have been discussed for years, and it would be great to take advantage of the multi-platform infrastructure of the current autotester for it, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for release, and it yielded actual results. Indeed.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:28:52 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote: It's your anger and hate you need to take a hard look at, it's taking you to a dark place. Whatever it is that's really eating you, I doubt it's the muslims that caused it. I do not know about the other parts of the world, but where I live, Muslims invaded a thousand year back without any provocation and with the same ferocity that they now exhibit in Iraq and Syria. So much so that from Mecca to the boundaries of present day India (and that includes Iran Iraq Afgan and Pakistan) all were converted by sword. There is story of Banda Bahadur (an Indian warrior) who was captured along with his 4 year old son and asked to convert. On refusal, his son of 4 years was butchered in front of his eyes and his heart was taken out and forces fed into Banda's mouth. No I am not making up these stories, these are part of registered history written by Muslim historians. All this happened in the court of the then Islamic ruler named Aurangzeb. So at least I am not amused by what is happening in Iraq and Syria today. BTW if you want to learn about Islam, learn it from a muslim and not hate propagation sites. Do that at your own risk. Many in Europe did that and ended up converting to this cult. There is a tenet of Islam called Taqiyya that one should be aware of before going to a Muslim and asking him for Islamic teachings. Search for Taqiyya on Google and be fearless. - A Lost Indian
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 01:01:09 UTC, Lost Indian wrote: There is story of Banda Bahadur (an Indian warrior) who was captured along with his 4 year old son and asked to convert. On refusal, his son of 4 years was butchered in front of his eyes To be fair it does sound like he was asking for it. I wouldn't provoke an armed man who's holding my 4 yr old captive. I mean, the young ones have been butchered in War since before mankind. War is Hell. This stuff has happened recently, I haven't finished holding my breath over reading about Nanking Massacre on Wikipedia the other day.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I'm very happy Martin is doing well but I am disappointed about this unprofessional behavior. In fact I could only assume the worst […] You thought he was dead? O_o I can virtually picture thousands of volunteers lining up now…
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 18/06/2015 3:48 p.m., dnewbie wrote: I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for release, and it yielded actual results. Indeed. +1 and I do not do so/say so lightly.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:54:00 UTC, Morbid.Obesity wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:16:09 UTC, berlin wrote: well, read something to your world situation. take it from an old kufr that dos not want to live under islamic law: http://www.jihadwatch.org/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ http://www.barenakedislam.com/ http://schnellmann.org/Understanding_Muhammad_Contents.html BTW, I think, our troll just advertised his resources. It was the main his goal.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 04:25:07 UTC, IgorStepanov wrote: On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:54:00 UTC, Morbid.Obesity wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:16:09 UTC, berlin wrote: well, read something to your world situation. take it from an old kufr that dos not want to live under islamic law: http://www.jihadwatch.org/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ http://www.barenakedislam.com/ http://schnellmann.org/Understanding_Muhammad_Contents.html BTW, I think, our troll just advertised his resources. It was the main his goal. A couple of them said they're done, no need to kick the beehive again.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 23:47:26 UTC, deadalnix wrote: There is a very important difference with an actual job: an actual job with a salary. You just can't expect the same level of commitment from a volunteer than an employee. I understand the feeling, but that seems unnecessarily harsh to demote Martin, since he is the one that have done the most for release, and it yielded actual results. Yeah, this seems very dramatic. The release process is in much better shape than it's ever been thanks in large part to his efforts and nobody knows it better than him. It's not like anyone else is eager to jump in and fill the role that Martin volunteered for. I'm not saying the unannounced MIA isn't a problem, it is. It's just that demoting the one person who is best equipped to do it seems a bit over the top for an all volunteer community project. Can someone fill in until we figure out what is going on? is perhaps a more appropriate response than a public rebuke.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 01:01:09 UTC, Lost Indian wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:28:52 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote: [...] I do not know about the other parts of the world, but where I live, Muslims invaded a thousand year back without any provocation and with the same ferocity that they now exhibit in Iraq and Syria. So much so that from Mecca to the boundaries of present day India (and that includes Iran Iraq Afgan and Pakistan) all were converted by sword. [...] Discussions this dumb belong on Hacker News. I took a long break from this site and upon my return I saw this.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 01:34:32 UTC, Etienne wrote: To be fair it does sound like he was asking for it. I wouldn't provoke an armed man who's holding my 4 yr old captive. I mean, the young ones have been butchered in War since before mankind. War is Hell. This stuff has happened recently, I haven't finished holding my breath over reading about Nanking Massacre on Wikipedia the other day. Before he took up arms, Banda was a saint. He took up arms only to protect religious freedom of fellow Indians. So in a way he asked for it. But had he (and many others) not done that, much of India would have been like Iraq and Syria of today. A few decades before Banda's sacrifice is the sacrifice of Bhai Matidas and Bhai Satidas (just for example -- there are innumerable more). They were not even warriors. But since they refused conversion, in full public view, one was enveloped in cotton and put to fire, and the other framed in wooden planks and sawed vertically thus splitting his body in two. An estimate says that India lost 90 million lives in the last 1000 years fighting this insane idea of religious superiority that many followers of this cult carry. This is my last post on this forum on this topic. I am sorry to have breached the sanctity of a technical forum in this way.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 02:22:13 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 18:35:48 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: With this we revoke Martin's role as release czar. His github access will remain the same for the time being. I think that was unnecessarily harsh and unilateral, not to mention demotivating (to both Martin and any people who considered the role). What do you mean by for the time being exactly? We are therefore looking for a new release czar. I would like to ask, what can we improve in our tooling and infrastructure to lessen the burden on release czars? I know nightly builds have been discussed for years, and it would be great to take advantage of the multi-platform infrastructure of the current autotester for it, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. Sorry for this post but... Is it possible to remove disscusiion about relligions, nationalities and relations of them? This is international forum and we may allow only one kind of intolerance: we may hate programmers, which doesn't use D yet. I am surprised that disscussion, started by one troll passersby, doesn't stopped now. Camrades, do not answer to troll posts. Just ignore it. I do not understand how something can be to try to answer such posts dripping fat as that from which it started.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:16:09 UTC, berlin wrote: well, read something to your world situation. take it from an old kufr that dos not want to live under islamic law: http://www.jihadwatch.org/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ http://www.barenakedislam.com/ http://schnellmann.org/Understanding_Muhammad_Contents.html you might also want to take a closer look at taqiyya - that is why nobody can trust a muslim. Hi, I am new to this concept, Off wiki: There is a consensus that whomsoever is forced into apostasy and chooses death has a greater reward than a person who takes the license [to deny one's faith under duress], but if a person is being forced to eat pork or drink wine, then they should do that [instead of choosing death]. Then, can one not logically deduce that if anyone tries to kill muslims, such as the US invading them that they should, if they are not willing to fight and die, they should do **whatever** is forced upon them(until that time which they are willing to die)? e.g., the U.S. could force 99% of Muslims to do X and they will do it(by the above logic), e.g., the statement uses pork and whine but they are just examples, it is open ended. Now why did the U.S. not do that when we invaded a Muslim country the first 10 times? Is it ignorance(I got the power of that belief 1 min after opening the wiki page, surely there are many smarter people working in the U.S. government than me?) or intentional? You know how politicians are extremely good at conning the public and wiggling there fingers in to every crevice? How they start off easy, like a sheep, then the next thing you know, you've just been bitten in to? Surely that skill could have been used on the Muslim wars? Start off with making them teach English and Mathematics in their schools. Force them to submit to such basic things. Once your in, your in if you really cared to be in, in the first place. There are many more Americans benefiting from the continuation of wars than there are that are not. The dead soldiers do not count, nor do their families and friends because only the rich and powerful matter. I'm curious to what percentage of men who are rich by birth join the front lines versus those that are poor? War is just the governments way of spring cleaning. If we really cared about solving the problem we would just assassinate and bomb the crap out of them. Force the fearing Muslims to turn in the non-fearing ones... kill the non-fearing ones. Problem solved... well, again, unless you don't see a problem with the status quo. I personal opinion is that most muslims as most africans are a bit further back in the development cycle... But since we all came from the same monkey queen I think diversity is good as it helps keep us one step ahead of all the stuff trying to kill us. It would be nice if we could all just get over this I'm better than you bullshit that doesn't solve anything. Your mother sucks balls, but do you put her down for it? Yes, many blacks(percentage wise) are quantitatively retarded when measured again the whole, but what good does that do. I guess a better thing for humanity is simply require everyone to marry outside their race... after a few generations we can move on to real problems that face humanity rather than bickering about who as the biggest dicks. (since everyone will have the biggest dicks and smallest dicks simultaneously, since all will have nearly identical genetic material. Of course, those who masturbate more might have bigger or smaller dicks depending on which scientific publications you read) Of course, then we'll be all sick from having no immunity from all the bugs that have learned to eat us.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 06/17/2015 08:35 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: The role of Release Manager and This Week In D are the two ones somewhat special in the community: they're closest to an actual job, in the sense that regularity and professionalism are crucial. You need to show up and do it. If This Week in D is not there on Sunday evening, it's not a weekly. If we have no release manager and no contingency plan, we can't release. In the future we'll have folks depending on this and planning ahead for it. You wouldn't just not go to work for two weeks and then show up at your desk as if nothing happened. This kind of stuff needs some level of planning, barring exceptional events. For example, Adam could tell his readership I'll be on vacation next week, so no issue on August 9. Which is totally fine. Well, I've been on vacation and prolonged that spontaneously for another week or so. I'm very happy Martin is doing well but I am disappointed about this unprofessional behavior. In fact I could only assume the worst because he seemed one of the most serious people I've dealt with, so this came as quite a major breakage of trust. I tried to convince people for 2 years to plan development (remember http://wiki.dlang.org/Agenda) and never got anyone to cooperate. It's very difficult to plan a release when people develop random stuff on master, hopefully this will improve with the more regular releases. -Martin
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 02:16:37 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hello, Martin has not replied to any communication for more than two weeks now, and I'm starting to fear something might have happened to him. If anyone in Berlin could get in touch with him and let me/us know he's alright, I'd appreciate it. It's okay if he's bothered about missing his flight to DConf or anything related, but the perspective of a more serious problem is worrisome. We are therefore looking for a new release czar. Two would be even better to avoid similar problems in the future. Please let everybody know if interested. Thanks, Andrei maybe one of the brain surgeons from africa (comming by boat) or some muslim (turkish, arabic or otherwise) got him at after 16:00? did he have more then 1 dollar and a smartphone? did he visit kreutzberg, neukoelln, schoeneberg, gesundbrunnen, center, spandau or steglitz. all that is enough for a decent knifing in the german capital or getting your head smashed. so better be insured for your next d-meetup. i hope nothing happened to him, but in berlin you never know.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
maybe one of the brain surgeons from africa (comming by boat) or some muslim (turkish, arabic or otherwise) got him at after 16:00? I know, don't feed the trolls, but: Your primary problem is not the immigrants.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 11:51:30 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote: maybe one of the brain surgeons from africa (comming by boat) or some muslim (turkish, arabic or otherwise) got him at after 16:00? I know, don't feed the trolls, but: Your primary problem is not the immigrants. it the muslim immigrants with knives. not a troll, but a berliner experiences of multi-kulti knives.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 17 Jun 2015 04:20, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Hello, Martin has not replied to any communication for more than two weeks now, and I'm starting to fear something might have happened to him. If anyone in Berlin could get in touch with him and let me/us know he's alright, I'd appreciate it. It's okay if he's bothered about missing his flight to DConf or anything related, but the perspective of a more serious problem is worrisome. We are therefore looking for a new release czar. Two would be even better to avoid similar problems in the future. Please let everybody know if interested. There's a meetup this Friday. Assuming he attends I'll refer him on.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 02:16:37 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hello, Martin has not replied to any communication for more than two weeks now, and I'm starting to fear something might have happened to him. If anyone in Berlin could get in touch with him and let me/us know he's alright, I'd appreciate it. It's okay if he's bothered about missing his flight to DConf or anything related, but the perspective of a more serious problem is worrisome. We are therefore looking for a new release czar. Two would be even better to avoid similar problems in the future. Please let everybody know if interested. Thanks, Andrei He returned back to github and posted some messages. End alarm:)
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 12:14:05 UTC, berlin wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 11:51:30 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote: maybe one of the brain surgeons from africa (comming by boat) or some muslim (turkish, arabic or otherwise) got him at after 16:00? I know, don't feed the trolls, but: Your primary problem is not the immigrants. it the muslim immigrants with knives. not a troll, but a berliner experiences of multi-kulti knives. The likely explanation for people being out of touch for a few days is not muderous muslim immigrants. When you start to think that it is, you need look at the state of your mind, not the immigrants.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 12:57:51 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 12:14:05 UTC, berlin wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 11:51:30 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote: maybe one of the brain surgeons from africa (comming by boat) or some muslim (turkish, arabic or otherwise) got him at after 16:00? I know, don't feed the trolls, but: Your primary problem is not the immigrants. it the muslim immigrants with knives. not a troll, but a berliner experiences of multi-kulti knives. The likely explanation for people being out of touch for a few days is not muderous muslim immigrants. When you start to think that it is, you need look at the state of your mind, not the immigrants. Was he even serious? Sounded ironic to me, people who think like that around here in Canada are laughed at because we all immigrated 200-300 years ago :)
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 13:26:57 UTC, Etienne wrote: The likely explanation for people being out of touch for a few days is not muderous muslim immigrants. When you start to think that it is, you need look at the state of your mind, not the immigrants. Was he even serious? Sounded ironic to me, people who think like that around here in Canada are laughed at because we all immigrated 200-300 years ago :) It was a throwaway comment, no doubt, but the situation is too dangerous to let silly comments slide by without a mention - these things snowball. I'm sure there are plenty of problems with immigrants but blaming them for everything leads to an exaggerated xenophobia and the real problems are pushed to one side.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 13:55:14 UTC, Etienne wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 13:48:50 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 13:26:57 UTC, Etienne wrote: The likely explanation for people being out of touch for a few days is not muderous muslim immigrants. When you start to think that it is, you need look at the state of your mind, not the immigrants. Was he even serious? Sounded ironic to me, people who think like that around here in Canada are laughed at because we all immigrated 200-300 years ago :) It was a throwaway comment, no doubt, but the situation is too dangerous to let silly comments slide by without a mention - these things snowball. I'm sure there are plenty of problems with immigrants but blaming them for everything leads to an exaggerated xenophobia and the real problems are pushed to one side. Maybe one day Muslims will have their Martin Luther King, although I doubt the situation is so dire I don't think you understand the worldwide situation but this forum is not the place to discuss it. I will say that I doubt that MLK could have saved Grozny, Baghdad or Aleppo for instance.
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 13:48:50 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote: On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 13:26:57 UTC, Etienne wrote: The likely explanation for people being out of touch for a few days is not muderous muslim immigrants. When you start to think that it is, you need look at the state of your mind, not the immigrants. Was he even serious? Sounded ironic to me, people who think like that around here in Canada are laughed at because we all immigrated 200-300 years ago :) It was a throwaway comment, no doubt, but the situation is too dangerous to let silly comments slide by without a mention - these things snowball. I'm sure there are plenty of problems with immigrants but blaming them for everything leads to an exaggerated xenophobia and the real problems are pushed to one side. Maybe one day Muslims will have their Martin Luther King, although I doubt the situation is so dire
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On 06/17/2015 09:26 AM, Etienne wrote: Was he even serious? Sounded ironic to me, people who think like that around here in Canada are laughed at because we all immigrated 200-300 years ago :) That's pretty cool of Canada really. That historical fact is just as true for the US, but down here the whole thing gets taken seriously. Related: http://memegenerator.net/instance/10432272 https://xkcd.com/84/
Re: Martin Nowak is officially MIA
On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 at 16:16:09 UTC, berlin wrote: well, read something to your world situation. take it from an old kufr that dos not want to live under islamic law: http://www.jihadwatch.org/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ http://www.barenakedislam.com/ http://schnellmann.org/Understanding_Muhammad_Contents.html you might also want to take a closer look at taqiyya - that is why nobody can trust a muslim. I know all about that. It's a little hard to assimilate people though. I'm from a french city of 700,000 (Quebec) surrounded by 300 million english men over 300 years, and we're not english (yet)
