[digitalradio] ALE400 and CCW w/LotW and eQSL?

[Jeremy Cowgar]

Hello,

I just made my first ALE400 and CCW QSO today but when I went to sync 
with both LotW and eQSL I received errors about unknown modes. I logged 
them as ALE400 and CCW.

Any thoughts on how to properly log and report these QSOs?

Thanks,

Jeremy
KB8LFA

[digitalradio] ALE400 Experiment-Development of Standard Calling Mode: NAN NETWORK

[Patrick Lindecker]

Hello Andy and all,

For about the Split mode. There is an option in the Trancseiver window.

About Multipsk and ALE refer to the Tony's paper, below.

73

Patrick


Multipsk ALE-400 ARQ FAE

A Quick Start Guide 

by Anthony Bombardiere, K2MO 



Patrick Lindecker, F6CTE is the author of the digital mode software Multipsk. 
His program includes a variety standard sound card modes as well as a few that 
he created himself. One that stands out from the crowd is called ALE400 ARQ 
FAE. As the name implies, it was developed for Automatic Link Establishment; a 
mode which is used to automatically select the best link between two stations 
by scanning and signaling specific channels within the HF spectrum. 

Although intended for Automatic Link Establishment, a small group of us started 
experimenting with Patrick's ALE-400 ARQ FAE using it as a stand-alone keyboard 
chat-mode. What we found was a robust mode with good sensitivity, combined with 
a specialized ARQ that allows it to run error-free. 

So how does it work? 

With conventional keyboard modes such as RTTY or PSK31, the receiving station 
must wait until the other station un-keys before he or she gets a chance to 
respond. In the interim, the band can change causing a loss of data during a 
lengthy key-down. The sending station would have no idea since there's no way 
to know, but with ALE-400 ARQ, there's a second text window that monitors 
outgoing throughput letting the sending station know if the message is getting 
through. 

The ALE-400 ARQ FAE mode operates more like a "pseudo full-duplex" system where 
each station types at the same time while the mode automatically exchanges data 
in 6-to-7 second intervals. The data is sent at approximately 80 
words-per-minute during a bilateral exchange and 60 words-per-minute one-way. 

The advantages over conentional chat-modes are pretty obvious; one is that 
there is no need to wait for the other station to un-key in order to change the 
subject or inject a quick comment since the change-over happens in a matter of 
few seonds. The other advantage is that because the exchange takes place so 
often, it gives the ARQ a chance to check for errors that may occur as the band 
changes. The ARQ is responsible for keeping the text error-free. 

The Soft ARQ Memory developed by Patrick works to reduce the number of repeats 
and improve throughput. The FAE or Fast Acknowledgement Exchange allows the 
process to happen quickly. 

Patrick explains how this Soft ARQ Memory works: 

"Soft ARQ memory is used to limit the number of retries due to noise (each 
erroneous frame is used to determine the original frame). This ARQ memory 
begins to work only in case of two received erroneous frames. The general 
principle of ARQ memory is to average erroneous frames which leads to 
increasing the S/N ratio. Consequently, the averaged frame is better than each 
of both received frames. For example, if both of the erroneous frames has one 
error, averaging two frames will lead to a gain of 3 dB in S/N ratio and, with 
a great probability, will have an averaged frame without error. In general, it 
is sufficient to average two and, more rarely three frames."

Patrick, Lindecker, F6CTE

Another unique feature about ALE-400 is the ability to send mail to the 
Multipsk Mailbox while in chat mode with another station. The station sending 
the mail message will still be able to see incoming text from the other party 
so one-way keyboarding is still possible during the mail transfer; two-way 
keyboarding resumes once the message transfer is completed. 

Patrick's ALE-400 ARQ FAE has all the features of the standard ALE (Automatic 
Link Establishment) software including sounding, messaging and link quality 
analysis. At approximately 400Hz bandwidth, ALE-400 is also spectrum-friendly 
running 50 baud with a carrier spacing of 50Hz. 

A word about RSID 

One of the most useful features for digital mode operation is the RSID or Reed 
Solomon Identifier. Developed by Patrick Lindecker, this short MFSK identifier 
is sent automatically before the start of a digital mode transmission and is 
then decoded by other stations letting them know which mode is in use. 

Multipsk will automatically switch to the correct mode once the RSID 
transmission is detected within the receivers pass band. What RSID does is take 
the guess work out of trying to figure out which mode is being transmitted. 
Many sound very much alike so they are not easily identified by sight and 
sound. 

In addition to a long list of familiar sound card modes, Multipsk includes some 
not-so-familiar like PAX, PSK10 and a narrow-band MFSK mode called VOICE named 
for it's ability to vocalize or spell-out incoming text through the sound cards 
speakers 

I've complied a Quick Start Guide that should hopefully get you up and running 
with Multipsk and the ALE-400 FAE-ARQ chat-mode. Special thanks to Patrick 
Lindecker (F6CTE). 

73, Tony -K2MO 



__

[digitalradio] ALE400 Experiment-Development of Standard Calling Mode: NAN NETWORK

[Andy obrien]

Further to our earlier conversation about using many of the concepts
in ALE networks for establishing digital mode QSOs, this weekend I
will be using ALE technology to scan the following frequencies

USB VFO frequencies plus standard ALE center frequency of 1625Hz.
3583
10143
14073
18103
24923
28123

(please check the band plan in your area to make sure the above are allowed)


Using ALE 400 (NOT standard ALE).

This mode is supported in free versions of Multipsk.
AlLE 400 is 50 bauds instead of 125 bauds in "standard ALE "  and in a
400 Hz bandwidth instead of 2000 Hz. Therefor it fits with most
region's digital band plans for "narrow" modes"


The idea is this, anyone looking for a QSO in a digital mode other
than PSK31, RTTY, or JT65A uses ALE400.  Sound or "CQ" in ALE400 and
stations scanning will hear your.  If a station that hears you wants
to work you, they will call you back in ALE400 and then the 2 of you
can negotiate where to stay in ALE400 or move to another mode better
suited to the conditions.  To facilitate  easier choices, the
suggested  alternatives are.

path between to ALE400 stations is VERY good -move to PSK 63 or 125

path between to ALE400 stations is  "OK"   stay with ALE 400

path between to ALE400 stations is  poor/marginal move to Olivia 500/16

General principles:

1.  Listen first, always make sure frequency is not in use
2.  No unattended transmissions/soundings.
3.  Use narrow digital modes wherever possible
4. Use 30 second soundings/CQs so that people scanning multiple
frequencies can hear you
5.  When scanning, make sure your scans are less than 30 seconds in duration
6.  If QSYing once a contact is made (that  is optional) please avoid
standard WSPR/JT65A/QTSs  frequencies
 "down 500 hz" may be sufficient.
7.  Use ALE MAIL on above standard frequencies, if desired.



It may seem "odd" to start a campaign for a standard calling mode via
use of a mode that only exists in one software package (multipsk).  I
agree,  However, using other modes with ALE-type concepts seemed even
more "odd: when a narrow ALE already existed.  Hopefully other
applications like DM780 or FLdigo will incorporate ALE400 in the
future.

Meanwhile, if you have Multipsk and are looking for a none-PSK63
non-RTTY, non-HT, QSO, join the "NAN"  (Narrow ALE  Network ) on 3583
10143 14073 18103, 24923, 28123

[digitalradio] ALE400 20M

[John Bradley]

at 1700Z calling CQ on 14074 very strong European stations on 20M 

 

John

VE5MU

[digitalradio] ALE400

[John Bradley]

On 14093 as of 0400UTC , here until 1500 or later. please try a connect

 

John

VE5MU

[digitalradio] ALE400

[John Bradley]

Back on 14093.0 currently very weak ALE400 sigs on there. 

 

John

VE5MU

[digitalradio] ALE400

[John Bradley]

Listening on 10141.5, leave a message if I am not around

 

last night had a weak connect with CO2JA, Jose, and this morning, right at
Grey line, Steinar , LA5VNA connected with what sounded like a good signal,

but was too slow to get to the radio room.

 

ALE400 weak signal performance is greatly improved. great work Patrick,
thanks from all of us

 

John

VE5MU

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400-ARQ-FAE

[Tony]

> Hi all, I am monitoring 14.093 Try to connect and leave a message if I am not 
> with my radio.
> 73 de LA5VNA Steinar

Hello Dear Steinar, 

I sent you several mail messages this afternoon running Multipsk ALE400. All 
went through just fine even with QSB / QRM - no repeats - 100 word Pangram took 
just 2 minutes. ALE-400 is a remarkable mode. 

See below for Link Quality Analisys. 

Thanks Steinar, 

Tony -K2MO

 
[End of TX] AMD message "THIS IS" to LA5VNA
[Call] [from LA5VNA ] [to K2MO ] [my BER=30 + SINAD=16] (his BER=30 + SINAD=08) 
[End of TX] (call) acknowledgment to LA5VNA

[digitalradio] ALE400-ARQ-FAE

[Steinar Aanesland]

Hi all,

I am monitoring 14.093

Try to connect and leave a message if I am not with my radio.

73 de LA5VNA Steinar

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing

[Tony]

John,

OK John - hope to see you there - thanks.

Tony -K2MO


- Original Message - 
From: "John Bradley" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:49 PM
Subject: RE: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing


> moved up and just before I left saw u on 14106.
>
>
>
> Will stay on 14106 until further notice..will be around tomorrow afternoon
> for QSO. May be over doing some work on EOC
>
>
>
> John
>
> VE5MU
>
>
>
> From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] 
> On
> Behalf Of Tony
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:24 PM
> To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing
>
>
>
>
>
> John,
>
>
>
>> VE5MU on 14078.0 running ALE400. Please try a connect
>
>
>
> Easy connect / mail transfer John - left you a message. Are you available
> this evening for a 20 meter ALE400 chat?
>
>
>
> Tony -K2MO
>
>
>
> 

RE: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing

[John Bradley]

moved up and just before I left saw u on 14106.

 

Will stay on 14106 until further notice..will be around tomorrow afternoon
for QSO. May be over doing some work on EOC

 

John

VE5MU

 

From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Tony
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 6:24 PM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing

 

  

John, 

 

> VE5MU on 14078.0 running ALE400. Please try a connect 

 

Easy connect / mail transfer John - left you a message. Are you available
this evening for a 20 meter ALE400 chat? 

 

Tony -K2MO

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing

[Tony]

John, 

> VE5MU on 14078.0 running ALE400. Please try a connect 

Easy connect / mail transfer John - left you a message. Are you available this 
evening for a 20 meter ALE400 chat? 

Tony -K2MO

RE: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing

[John Bradley]

ROFLMAO !  good one!! amazing what a typo can do

 

73's

 

John

VE5MU

 

From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of mikea
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 1:09 PM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing

 

  

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 01:04:01PM -0600, John Bradley wrote:
> using the selective call function under Auxillary Functions, enter my call
> (VE5MU) on your station list, and sue selective call to connect.

Wow! I hadn't realized that Canada was so litigious. 

Thanks, John. I learned something about the program function from your
note.

-- 
Mike Andrews, W5EGO
mi...@mikea.ath.cx <mailto:mikea%40mikea.ath.cx> 
Tired old sysadmin 

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing

[mikea]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 01:04:01PM -0600, John Bradley wrote:
> using the selective call function under Auxillary Functions, enter my call
> (VE5MU) on your station list, and sue selective call to connect.

Wow! I hadn't realized that Canada was so litigious. 

Thanks, John. I learned something about the program function from your
note.

-- 
Mike Andrews, W5EGO
mi...@mikea.ath.cx
Tired old sysadmin 

RE: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing

[John Bradley]

using the selective call function under Auxillary Functions, enter my call
(VE5MU) on your station list, and sue selective call to connect.

 

Nobody needs to be at the other end to do this ARQ connect, send small text
files, etc. There are some instructions on ALE400 on Patricks website, and
possibly Andy has info up as well

 

John

VE5MU

 

 

 

From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Stan Grigaliunas
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 10:34 AM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 testing

 

  

Hi,

I am on 14.078 calling cq on ALE400

Stan
K8SRB


John Bradley wrote: 

  

at 1600UTC, VE5EOC on 10141.5. VE5MU on 14078.0 , both running ALE400 1625hz
center

 

please try a connect or three

 

john

VE5MU

 



  _  



 
 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.113/2400 - Release Date: 09/28/09
05:51:00
 
  

[digitalradio] ALE400 testing

[John Bradley]

at 1600UTC, VE5EOC on 10141.5. VE5MU on 14078.0 , both running ALE400 1625hz
center

 

please try a connect or three

 

john

VE5MU

[digitalradio] ALE400 quick guide - Last Multipsk test version

[Patrick Lindecker]

Hello Tony and all,

Thanks Tony for the nice quick guide.

For information, the last Multipsk test version (best to use for ALE400) is:
http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_24_09_2009.ZIP

73
Patrick

- Original Message - 
From: "obrienaj" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:51 AM
Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Saturday/Sunday WINMOR-ALE-FLARQ Experiment


> --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Tony  wrote:
>>
>> Andy,
>>
>> I'll be QRV ALE-400 starting this evening (Friday) and the rest of the 
>> weekend on 20 meters. I've tested mail transfers with the mode many 
>> times; it will run 200 bytes / minute with moderate signals. A 100 word 
>> text message will usually run 2 minutes; start to finish.
>>
>
> Thanks for the ALE400 quick guide, I needed it.
>
> Andy K3UK
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at
> http://www.obriensweb.com/sked
>
> Recommended digital mode software:  Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk
> Logging Software:  DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> 

[digitalradio] ALE400 - 14MHz today 9/23.

[rich3x]

Auto-Scanning 14074 & 14094 in ALE400 mode.Set to respond to callsign or 
group calls.

de Rich/N2JR  FM18  

RE: [digitalradio] ALE400

[John Bradley]

QSY to 14074 @ 2300utc

 

John

VE5MU

 

From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Tony
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 4:51 PM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Cc: John Bradley
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

 

  

John, 

See you on 14074.0 for quick test? 

Tony -K2MO

- Original Message - 
From: "John Bradley" mailto:jbradley%40sasktel.net> >
To: mailto:multipsk%40yahoogroups.com> >;
mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:48 PM
Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400

> testing latest version (19 Sept) on 7082USB both VE5MU and VE5EOC
> 
> 
> 
> John
> 
> VE5MU
> 
>

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Tony]

John, 

See you on 14074.0 for quick test? 

Tony -K2MO


- Original Message - 
From: "John Bradley" 
To: ; 
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:48 PM
Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400


> testing latest version (19 Sept) on 7082USB both VE5MU and VE5EOC
> 
> 
> 
> John
> 
> VE5MU
> 
>

[digitalradio] ALE400

[John Bradley]

testing latest version (19 Sept) on 7082USB both VE5MU and VE5EOC

 

John

VE5MU

[digitalradio] ALE400 Beta Version

[John Bradley]

 Moved to 10141.5 , 1625hz center for further testing. Feel free to connect
(1800UTC 17Sept)

 

have been good signals from Europe on 30M recently

 

John

VE5MU

[digitalradio] ALE400 testing 20M

[John Bradley]

Tony, K2MO and myself had a good test session with ALE 400 most recent beta
test version (http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_15_09_2009.ZIP)

yesterday. Thanks to Tony, we found the  following results

 

Couple of points:

 

. Stations are 1600miles or 2700km apart

. K2MO runs a yagi, VE5MU a Zepp.

. Both stations were able to reduce power to  400mw (K2MO) and 5
watts (MU) and still able to transfer data, even though at times either
station could not be audibly heard. test messages were getting through with
repeats.

. Some collisions occurred but were immediately corrected by either
station sending RSID. Difficult to induce collisions, even at low power.
Software did what it was supposed to.

. Both stations running 500hz filters

. W1AW then came up with the evening RTTY/PSK bulletin broadcast.
The low side of the RTTY broadcast was less than 100hz from the ALE400
signal. K2MO could hear W1AW even though the station is about 100 miles from
his QTH. (ground wave) Without the filter, W1AW was 40db over S9 at VE5MU
location.

. K2MO and VE5MU will still able to transfer data, at 100Watts,
despite extreme QRM from W1AW. Eventually moved up 1Khz and carried on.

 

Conclusions

 

. ALE400 in the latest form works well to avoid and correct
collisions.

. The software allows working into the noise much better than
earlier versions

 

VE5MU and VE5EOC are still listening on 14093.0 and are available for a
connect

 

John

VE5MU

[digitalradio] ALE400 software

[csm1096]

What program are you guys using to run ALE400? 

I may give this mode a shot.

Bob - K3MQ

[digitalradio] ALE400 Beacon

[John Bradley]

beaconing 2 minute intervals on 14093.0 dial until Z Sept14

 

john

VE5MU

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 on 14.074 now

[Steinar Aanesland]

Hi all,

I am calling cq in ale400 arq mode on 14.074 now.
Try to connect to me:)

73 de LA5VNA Steinar

[digitalradio] ALE400 30M

[John Bradley]

On 10145.5 for the next 14 hours. Please try a connect, @3.30Z Sept 11

 

John

VE5MU

[digitalradio] ALE400 and 30M

[John Bradley]

I am not familiar with the US band plan , but want to set up on 30M with an
ALE400 station and leave it parked there for awhile for testing.

Any suggestions for a frequency? 

 

Propagation on 30M has bee good over the past while, judging by the results
on WSPR

 

John

VE5MU/VE5EOC

[digitalradio] ALE400 on 14.074 now

[Steinar Aanesland]

Hi all,

I am calling cq in ale400 arq mode on 14.074 now.
Try to connect to me:)

73 de LA5VNA Steinar

[digitalradio] ALE400 - frequencies

[Patrick Lindecker]

Hello Matt,

If you click on the "QRGs" button, you have all the suggested frequencies for 
all the Multipsk modes. For example, for ALE400:

ALE400 (USB)
Below is a non exhaustive list of the ALE400 frequencies: 
1837.0, 3589.0, 7037.5, 10141.5, 14074.0, 14094.0, 18104.5, 21094.0, 24926.0, 
28146.0, 50162.5, 144162.5 (AF at 1625 Hz).
The complete list of frequencies is on http://hflink.com/ale400. 

73
Patrick 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Matt Gregory 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:06 PM
  Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400




Hi
Iam intrested in playing with ale 400 using multipsk and was wondering 
what are the calling freq?
Matt
kc2pua 




  

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Tony]

Matt,

> Iam intrested in playing with ale 400 using multipsk and was wondering 
> what are the
> calling freq? Matt kc2pua

There are a handful of stations currently active on 14074.0 USB. The 
bandwidth is approximately 400Hz. Let us know if you need any tips on 
working ALE-400.

Tony -K2MO





- Original Message - 
From: "Matt Gregory" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 4:06 PM
Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400


> Hi
>
>
> 

[digitalradio] ALE400

[Matt Gregory]

Hi
Iam intrested in playing with ale 400 using multipsk and was wondering what are 
the calling freq?
Matt
kc2pua


  

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC

[DANNY DOUGLAS]

Exactly what we need.  Either would do well with Spotcollector, but I dont know 
about those who use other spotting sofware at their own station (such as MIXW, 
etc.)  I am just now getting into using MultiPSK and it works in conjunction 
with the DXLab stuff, so a lot of potential customers there, as well as those 
who use WnWarbler.  
Danny Douglas
N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB

All 2 years or more (except Novice)
Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for 
those who do.  

Moderator
DXandTALK
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
dxandt...@yahoogroups.com

Moderator 
Digital_modes
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159

  - Original Message - 
  From: Andrew O'Brien 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC


I ran such a cluster for a few years , before I opened the "sked
  page". I was running WinCluster. I do have the bandwidth to run a
  cluster again but want to avoid the cost of some of the better cluster
  software. It would need to be a digital cluster that does not
  propagate spots to other clusters. Either that or have something
  like Hamspots' present cluster/pskreporter page configurable via
  Telnet to Spotcollector. That way, digital mode enthusiasts could
  take full advantage of Spotcollector's filters and collect from
  Hamspots PLUS the general DX Cluster world

  Andy K3UK

  On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:30 PM, DANNY DOUGLAS wrote:
  >
  >
  > That me be true, but I have seen several  stateside MFSK and many PSK spots
  > on the clusters.  The next thought is a "digital cluster" which could be
  > used with spot collector?  Those that then wanted "any" digital modes/states
  > or otherwise, could load that one up and see the spots, and they would not
  > particular leak out to other clusters.  I simply do not have room on the
  > screen for even more windows.
  >
  >
  >
  >  Danny Douglas
  > N7DC
  > ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
  > SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
  >
  > All 2 years or more (except Novice)
  > Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
  > I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
  > those who do.
  >
  > Moderator
  > DXandTALK
  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
  > dxandt...@yahoogroups.com
  >
  > Moderator
  > Digital_modes
  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159
  >
  > Danny Douglas
  > N7DC
  > ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
  > SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
  >
  > All 2 years or more (except Novice)
  > Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
  > I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
  > those who do.
  >
  > Moderator
  > DXandTALK
  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
  > dxandt...@yahoogroups.com
  >
  > Moderator
  > Digital_modes
  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159
  >
  > - Original Message -
  > From: Andrew O'Brien
  > To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
  > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 7:25 PM
  > Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC
  >
  >
  > Danny, I think they are not being posted/spotted. I have always
  > assumed, perhaps wrongly, that "serious DXers" and cluster owners
  > frown on something like K3UK spotting N7DC because you are not really
  > "DX". Thus even though you might be using an interesting digital mode
  > , I would not spot you on a real DX cluster. If you were ET2US I
  > would spot you, not N7DC. If we all started spotting routine
  > callsigns and their digital modes on a regular cluster, Spotcollector
  > would indeed be the best tool.
  >
  > Andy
  >
  > On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:16 PM, DANNY DOUGLAS wrote:
  >>
  >>
  >> Where is "there" Tony?  HI.
  >> And I have, on average, 3 sites gathering spots here, and using
  >> SpotCollector which has almost every mode known to man, listed, so its not
  >> like they just disappear on this end.  Looks like the special digital
  >> modes
  >> simply are not being passed thru the network.
  >>
  >> Danny Douglas
  >> N7DC
  >> ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
  >> SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
  >>
  >> All 2 years or more (except Novice)
  >> Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
  >> I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
  >> those who do.
  >>
  >> Moderator
  >> DXandTALK
  >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
  >> dxandt...@yahoogroups.com
  >>
  >> Moderator
  >> Digital_modes
  >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dig

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC

[Andrew O'Brien]

I ran such a cluster for a few years , before I opened the "sked
page".  I was running WinCluster.  I do have the bandwidth to run a
cluster again but want to avoid the cost of some of the better cluster
software.  It would need to be a digital cluster that does not
propagate spots to other clusters.   Either that or have something
like Hamspots' present cluster/pskreporter page configurable via
Telnet to Spotcollector.  That way, digital mode enthusiasts could
take full advantage of Spotcollector's filters and collect from
Hamspots PLUS the general DX Cluster world

Andy K3UK


On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:30 PM, DANNY DOUGLAS wrote:
>
>
> That me be true, but I have seen several  stateside MFSK and many PSK spots
> on the clusters.  The next thought is a "digital cluster" which could be
> used with spot collector?  Those that then wanted "any" digital modes/states
> or otherwise, could load that one up and see the spots, and they would not
> particular leak out to other clusters.  I simply do not have room on the
> screen for even more windows.
>
>
>
>  Danny Douglas
> N7DC
> ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
> SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
>
> All 2 years or more (except Novice)
> Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
> I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
> those who do.
>
> Moderator
> DXandTALK
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
> dxandt...@yahoogroups.com
>
> Moderator
> Digital_modes
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159
>
> Danny Douglas
> N7DC
> ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
> SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
>
> All 2 years or more (except Novice)
> Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
> I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
> those who do.
>
> Moderator
> DXandTALK
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
> dxandt...@yahoogroups.com
>
> Moderator
> Digital_modes
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Andrew O'Brien
> To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 7:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC
>
>
> Danny, I think they are not being posted/spotted. I have always
> assumed, perhaps wrongly, that "serious DXers" and cluster owners
> frown on something like K3UK spotting N7DC because you are not really
> "DX". Thus even though you might be using an interesting digital mode
> , I would not spot you on a real DX cluster. If you were ET2US I
> would spot you, not N7DC. If we all started spotting routine
> callsigns and their digital modes on a regular cluster, Spotcollector
> would indeed be the best tool.
>
> Andy
>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:16 PM, DANNY DOUGLAS wrote:
>>
>>
>> Where is "there" Tony?  HI.
>> And I have, on average, 3 sites gathering spots here, and using
>> SpotCollector which has almost every mode known to man, listed, so its not
>> like they just disappear on this end.  Looks like the special digital
>> modes
>> simply are not being passed thru the network.
>>
>> Danny Douglas
>> N7DC
>> ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
>> SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
>>
>> All 2 years or more (except Novice)
>> Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
>> I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
>> those who do.
>>
>> Moderator
>> DXandTALK
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
>> dxandt...@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> Moderator
>> Digital_modes
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Tony
>> To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC
>>
>>
>> Danny,
>>
>>> What I dont understand, with all the reported contacts here on this
>>> group,
>>> why I am not seeing > ANY of them on the spot network?  I would gladly
>>> give
>>> some of them a listen, if they showed up
>>> Danny Douglas N7DC
>>
>> That's a good question...
>>
>> I've noticed 'exotic mode' cluster spots on occasion and I've sent some
>> over
>> the years with Mixw's DX Cluster feature. The response is usually less
>> than
>> stellar.
>>
>> I use this reflector on occasion to spot QRV notes (with Andy's
>> permission)
>> for the purpose of testing less familiar modes like ALE-400. The audience
>> is
>> much smaller than the clusters, but it's members are of course, geared
>> toward digital.
>>
>> Andy's sked page is perfect for digital mode skeds / QRV posts, but it
>> sees
>> little use. I can't figure out why that is with the number of members we
>> have. http://www.obriensweb.com/sked
>>
>> I'm there now at 2250z if you'd like to sked. I'll be on for a few hours.
>>
>> Tony -K2MO
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Andy
>
> 



-- 
Andy

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC

[DANNY DOUGLAS]

That me be true, but I have seen several  stateside MFSK and many PSK spots on 
the clusters.  The next thought is a "digital cluster" which could be used with 
spot collector?  Those that then wanted "any" digital modes/states or 
otherwise, could load that one up and see the spots, and they would not 
particular leak out to other clusters.  I simply do not have room on the screen 
for even more windows.



 Danny Douglas
N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB

All 2 years or more (except Novice)
Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for 
those who do.  

Moderator
DXandTALK
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
dxandt...@yahoogroups.com

Moderator 
Digital_modes
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159
 
Danny Douglas
N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB

All 2 years or more (except Novice)
Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for 
those who do.  

Moderator
DXandTALK
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
dxandt...@yahoogroups.com

Moderator 
Digital_modes
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159

  - Original Message - 
  From: Andrew O'Brien 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 7:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC


Danny, I think they are not being posted/spotted. I have always
  assumed, perhaps wrongly, that "serious DXers" and cluster owners
  frown on something like K3UK spotting N7DC because you are not really
  "DX". Thus even though you might be using an interesting digital mode
  , I would not spot you on a real DX cluster. If you were ET2US I
  would spot you, not N7DC. If we all started spotting routine
  callsigns and their digital modes on a regular cluster, Spotcollector
  would indeed be the best tool.

  Andy

  On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:16 PM, DANNY DOUGLAS wrote:
  >
  >
  > Where is "there" Tony?  HI.
  > And I have, on average, 3 sites gathering spots here, and using
  > SpotCollector which has almost every mode known to man, listed, so its not
  > like they just disappear on this end.  Looks like the special digital modes
  > simply are not being passed thru the network.
  >
  > Danny Douglas
  > N7DC
  > ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
  > SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
  >
  > All 2 years or more (except Novice)
  > Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
  > I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
  > those who do.
  >
  > Moderator
  > DXandTALK
  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
  > dxandt...@yahoogroups.com
  >
  > Moderator
  > Digital_modes
  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159
  >
  > - Original Message -----
  > From: Tony
  > To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
  > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:52 PM
  > Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC
  >
  >
  > Danny,
  >
  >> What I dont understand, with all the reported contacts here on this group,
  >> why I am not seeing > ANY of them on the spot network?  I would gladly give
  >> some of them a listen, if they showed up
  >> Danny Douglas N7DC
  >
  > That's a good question...
  >
  > I've noticed 'exotic mode' cluster spots on occasion and I've sent some over
  > the years with Mixw's DX Cluster feature. The response is usually less than
  > stellar.
  >
  > I use this reflector on occasion to spot QRV notes (with Andy's permission)
  > for the purpose of testing less familiar modes like ALE-400. The audience is
  > much smaller than the clusters, but it's members are of course, geared
  > toward digital.
  >
  > Andy's sked page is perfect for digital mode skeds / QRV posts, but it sees
  > little use. I can't figure out why that is with the number of members we
  > have. http://www.obriensweb.com/sked
  >
  > I'm there now at 2250z if you'd like to sked. I'll be on for a few hours.
  >
  > Tony -K2MO
  >
  >
  > 

  -- 
  Andy


  

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC

[Andrew O'Brien]

Danny, I think they are not being posted/spotted.  I have always
assumed, perhaps wrongly, that  "serious DXers" and cluster owners
frown on  something like K3UK spotting N7DC because you are not really
"DX".  Thus even though you might be using an interesting digital mode
, I would not spot you on a real DX cluster.  If you were ET2US I
would spot you, not N7DC.  If we all started spotting routine
callsigns and their digital modes on a regular cluster, Spotcollector
would indeed be the best tool.

Andy


On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 7:16 PM, DANNY DOUGLAS wrote:
>
>
> Where is "there" Tony?  HI.
> And I have, on average, 3 sites gathering spots here, and using
> SpotCollector which has almost every mode known to man, listed, so its not
> like they just disappear on this end.  Looks like the special digital modes
> simply are not being passed thru the network.
>
> Danny Douglas
> N7DC
> ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
> SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB
>
> All 2 years or more (except Novice)
> Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
> I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for
> those who do.
>
> Moderator
> DXandTALK
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
> dxandt...@yahoogroups.com
>
> Moderator
> Digital_modes
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Tony
> To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC
>
>
> Danny,
>
>> What I dont understand, with all the reported contacts here on this group,
>> why I am not seeing > ANY of them on the spot network?  I would gladly give
>> some of them a listen, if they showed up
>> Danny Douglas N7DC
>
> That's a good question...
>
> I've noticed 'exotic mode' cluster spots on occasion and I've sent some over
> the years with Mixw's DX Cluster feature. The response is usually less than
> stellar.
>
> I use this reflector on occasion to spot QRV notes (with Andy's permission)
> for the purpose of testing less familiar modes like ALE-400. The audience is
> much smaller than the clusters, but it's members are of course, geared
> toward digital.
>
> Andy's sked page is perfect for digital mode skeds / QRV posts, but it sees
> little use. I can't figure out why that is with the number of members we
> have. http://www.obriensweb.com/sked
>
> I'm there now at 2250z if you'd like to sked. I'll be on for a few hours.
>
> Tony -K2MO
>
>
> 



-- 
Andy

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC

[DANNY DOUGLAS]

Where is "there" Tony?  HI.
And I have, on average, 3 sites gathering spots here, and using SpotCollector 
which has almost every mode known to man, listed, so its not like they just 
disappear on this end.  Looks like the special digital modes simply are not 
being passed thru the network.
   
Danny Douglas
N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB

All 2 years or more (except Novice)
Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for 
those who do.  

Moderator
DXandTALK
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
dxandt...@yahoogroups.com

Moderator 
Digital_modes
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159

  - Original Message - 
  From: Tony 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:52 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC



  Danny,

  > What I dont understand, with all the reported contacts here on this group, 
why I am not seeing > ANY of them on the spot network?  I would gladly give 
some of them a listen, if they showed up 
  > Danny Douglas N7DC

  That's a good question... 

  I've noticed 'exotic mode' cluster spots on occasion and I've sent some over 
the years with Mixw's DX Cluster feature. The response is usually less than 
stellar.

  I use this reflector on occasion to spot QRV notes (with Andy's permission) 
for the purpose of testing less familiar modes like ALE-400. The audience is 
much smaller than the clusters, but it's members are of course, geared toward 
digital. 

  Andy's sked page is perfect for digital mode skeds / QRV posts, but it sees 
little use. I can't figure out why that is with the number of members we have. 
http://www.obriensweb.com/sked

  I'm there now at 2250z if you'd like to sked. I'll be on for a few hours. 

  Tony -K2MO


  

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 N7DC

[Tony]

Danny,

> What I dont understand, with all the reported contacts here on this group, 
> why I am not seeing > ANY of them on the spot network?  I would gladly give 
> some of them a listen, if they showed up 
> Danny Douglas N7DC

That's a good question... 

I've noticed 'exotic mode' cluster spots on occasion and I've sent some over 
the years with Mixw's DX Cluster feature. The response is usually less than 
stellar.

I use this reflector on occasion to spot QRV notes (with Andy's permission) for 
the purpose of testing less familiar modes like ALE-400. The audience is much 
smaller than the clusters, but it's members are of course, geared toward 
digital. 

Andy's sked page is perfect for digital mode skeds / QRV posts, but it sees 
little use. I can't figure out why that is with the number of members we have. 
http://www.obriensweb.com/sked

I'm there now at 2250z if you'd like to sked. I'll be on for a few hours. 

Tony -K2MO

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Tony]

> Only if they are ...well...forget it

Cat got your tongue Trip?

Tony -K2MO



> "I think most would interpret"
>
> Only if they are ...well...forget it
>
> On 8/31/09, Tony  wrote:
>> Trip,
>>
>>>>> Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue
>>>>> is not just a
>>>>> one time thing... and not just on QRP.
>>>>> Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major
>>>>> issue.
>>>>> When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.)
>>>>> ..then tell me its not major.
>>
>> I think most would interpret "when you have it occur 40-50 times with 20
>> over signal" as the number of out-of-sync collisions that occurred during
>> just one of your ALE-400 contacts and not the number of times overall.
>>
>> Understand if you'd rather not discuss it further. Hope you're able to 
>> get
>> it working; let us know what you find.
>>
>> Tony -K2MO
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
>>
>>
>>> ***"If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major 
>>> problem
>>> that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both
>>> ways"***
>>>
>>> 40 to 50 times during a QSO!!..WOW... Damn..I think If it occured 
>>> that
>>> many times during 1 QSO..I would give up..
>>> Dont ya think
>>>
>>> Look guys...Its MUST me something I'm doing wrong or my equipment..I
>>> mean...I have only been using this mode
>>> from the time it came out... and on no less than 3 or 4 diff. radios,
>>> bands and puters..
>>> With no less than 10-15 other users.
>>>
>>> I have ONLY been on HF digi for JUST a few days ...Got my ticket from 
>>> that
>>> "Cracker Jack Box"
>>> Its me, its not really happining..
>>>
>>> I mean.. the hundreds of other users surely would have found this
>>> problemRight??
>>>
>>> Just let it go...I have.
>>>
>>> End of thread.
>>>
>>> 73 de Trip - KT4WO
>>>
>>>
>>>  - Original Message -
>>>  From: Tony
>>>  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
>>>  Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:11 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  Trip,
>>>
>>>  > Its not a unique problem. KT4WO
>>>
>>>  Well it does seem to be unique problem because we haven't heard from
>>> anyone else with major sync issues (yet). Your comments will hopefully,
>>> bring them out of the woodwork. In my experience and in the experience 
>>> of
>>> others, ALE-400 sync issues happen occasionally and are almost always
>>> associated with weak signals.
>>>
>>>  As the band fades, the mode dips below it's useful threshold and loses
>>> sync. At that point, it's time to quit or switch bands. Trying to 
>>> continue
>>> after that results in a high number of collisions / sync issues because
>>> signals are just too weak.
>>>
>>>  If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem
>>> that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both 
>>> ways.
>>> That certainly seems like a unique situation, but without knowing the
>>> circumstances at the time, it's hard to tell what's really going on.
>>>
>>>  We would certainly appreciate a more detailed description of the band
>>> conditions when the mode lost sync that excessive number of times. For
>>> example; was there heavy QSB, QRM, QRN? Does it ever happen on a clear
>>> channel?  Does it happen on one band more than others? Does it happen on
>>> one PC more than another.
>>>
>>>  You're welcome to sked with me anytime Trip. I'm always on in the
>>> evenings starting around 2300z. I run a 5 element 20 meter mono-band 
>>> Yagi
>>> @ 60ft. I'm sure we could work providing the propagation Gods cooperate.
>>>
>>>  Thanks,
>>>
>>>  Tony -K2MO
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  > Its not a unique problem.
>>>  > KT4WO
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  &g

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Thomas Carswell Jr.]

"I think most would interpret"

Only if they are ...well...forget it

On 8/31/09, Tony  wrote:
> Trip,
>
>>>> Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue
>>>> is not just a
>>>> one time thing... and not just on QRP.
>>>> Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major
>>>> issue.
>>>> When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.)
>>>> ..then tell me its not major.
>
> I think most would interpret "when you have it occur 40-50 times with 20
> over signal" as the number of out-of-sync collisions that occurred during
> just one of your ALE-400 contacts and not the number of times overall.
>
> Understand if you'd rather not discuss it further. Hope you're able to get
> it working; let us know what you find.
>
> Tony -K2MO
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
>
>
>> ***"If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem
>> that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both
>> ways"***
>>
>> 40 to 50 times during a QSO!!..WOW... Damn..I think If it occured that
>> many times during 1 QSO..I would give up..
>> Dont ya think
>>
>> Look guys...Its MUST me something I'm doing wrong or my equipment..I
>> mean...I have only been using this mode
>> from the time it came out... and on no less than 3 or 4 diff. radios,
>> bands and puters..
>> With no less than 10-15 other users.
>>
>> I have ONLY been on HF digi for JUST a few days ...Got my ticket from that
>> "Cracker Jack Box"
>> Its me, its not really happining..
>>
>> I mean.. the hundreds of other users surely would have found this
>> problemRight??
>>
>> Just let it go...I have.
>>
>> End of thread.
>>
>> 73 de Trip - KT4WO
>>
>>
>>  - Original Message -
>>  From: Tony
>>  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
>>  Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:11 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Trip,
>>
>>  > Its not a unique problem. KT4WO
>>
>>  Well it does seem to be unique problem because we haven't heard from
>> anyone else with major sync issues (yet). Your comments will hopefully,
>> bring them out of the woodwork. In my experience and in the experience of
>> others, ALE-400 sync issues happen occasionally and are almost always
>> associated with weak signals.
>>
>>  As the band fades, the mode dips below it's useful threshold and loses
>> sync. At that point, it's time to quit or switch bands. Trying to continue
>> after that results in a high number of collisions / sync issues because
>> signals are just too weak.
>>
>>  If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem
>> that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways.
>> That certainly seems like a unique situation, but without knowing the
>> circumstances at the time, it's hard to tell what's really going on.
>>
>>  We would certainly appreciate a more detailed description of the band
>> conditions when the mode lost sync that excessive number of times. For
>> example; was there heavy QSB, QRM, QRN? Does it ever happen on a clear
>> channel?  Does it happen on one band more than others? Does it happen on
>> one PC more than another.
>>
>>  You're welcome to sked with me anytime Trip. I'm always on in the
>> evenings starting around 2300z. I run a 5 element 20 meter mono-band Yagi
>> @ 60ft. I'm sure we could work providing the propagation Gods cooperate.
>>
>>  Thanks,
>>
>>  Tony -K2MO
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  > Its not a unique problem.
>>  > KT4WO
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > On 8/31/09, Tony  wrote:
>>  >> Trip,
>>  >>
>>  >> Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out
>> what
>>  >> it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you.
>>  >>
>>  >> Tony -K2MO
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >> - Original Message -
>>  >> From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
>>  >> To: 
>>  >> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
>>  >> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
>>  >>
>>  >&

[digitalradio] ALE400 - repetitive disconnexion

[Patrick Lindecker]

Hello Thomas,

> When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.) ..then tell me 
> its not major.
As this frequency (40-50 times) is not normal, I think there is another 
problem.

Hypothesis: I suppose that you want to do a QSO, have clicked on "ARQ FAE" 
and "CQ" and a Ham has done the connection with your station.

Note: if you are the "Master" (the one who initiates the QSO), it is better 
to check "Master" in the "Mode" box, this to come back to your initial AF 
frequency and to avoid a drift in frequency.

 I list below the possible problems:
* sound card sampling frequency not adjusted...solution:  menu, 
click on ,
* AF level too low (<10 %) as displayed in a caption to the left of the Mode 
panel: you must target about 30 to 50 % (not critical) using the mixer. 
Possibly , you can sample in 16 bits (you will win about 2 or 3 bits in fact 
due to noise):  menu, click on . However, the most 
robust, CPU economic and simple is to work on 8 bits.
 * your computer must be fast (>1000 MHz) not to introduce big CPU delays,
 * to switch XCVR, prefer direct control or CAT system. With VOX, the 
introduced delay (VOX+XCVR) must be checked (above 130 ms there is a problem 
for ALE400),
 * of course, the AF level to the XCVR must be adjusted (not to overload the 
XCVR or not to be close to the noise), but it is not  different from any 
other mode.
 * Possibly, unclick the "AFC" (in case of big QRM (RTTY for example) on 
your frequency).

For procedures, refer to:
http://f6cte.free.fr/ALE_and_ALE400_easy_with_Multipsk.doc
http://f6cte.free.fr/The_ARQ_FAE_beacon_easy_with_Multipsk.doc

I hope this helps a bit.
Note: about this problem, it would be better to continue on the Multipsk 
Yahoo group.

73
Patrick


- Original Message - 
From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400


> Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue
> is not just a
> one time thing... and not just on QRP.
> Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg)...BUT It IS a major issue.
> When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.)
> ..then tell me its not major.
> I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops.
> BTW..the new "PSK-Packet" has the same problem.
> KT4WO
>
>
> On 8/30/09, John Bradley  wrote:
>>
>>
>> "> I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a
>>> "slottime" or some random timer...
>>> I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400.
>>> Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become "mainstream"
>>> I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out.
>>> So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck
>> getting
>>> him to address this.??!!??! !??
>>> Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave "sees" this is a problem,
>>> Patrick
>>> will fix it???
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This is not a MAJOR issue.. Tony , K2M) and I were testing this and found
>> that while we could get ALE400 out of sync under very weak
>>
>> signals . we both had to go QRP, by not typing anything into the buffer 
>> for
>> a moment got the signal back without further collisions.
>>
>> Seemed to work well for us.
>>
>>
>>
>> Both using the latest (13th) test version of multipsk, not sure if that 
>> has
>> any effect,  found at 
>> <http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_13_08_2009.ZIP>
>> http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_13_08_2009.ZIP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> john
>>
>> VE5MU
>>
>>
>
>
> 
>
> Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at
> http://www.obriensweb.com/sked
>
> Recommended digital mode software:  Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk
> Logging Software:  DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 on 14074

[Tony]

John (VE5MU) 

> great conditions, 3 of us on now and looking for more at 0200Z

Nice to meet Terry (VE5TLW) on ALE-400. Thank you both for the nice contacts 
and good luck with VE5EOC.  

Tony -K2MO


- Original Message - 
From: "John Bradley" 
To: ; 
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:05 PM
Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400 on 14074


> great conditions, 3 of us on now and looking for more at 0200Z
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John
> 
> Ve5mu
> 
>

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Tony]

Trip, 

>>> Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue
>>> is not just a
>>> one time thing... and not just on QRP.
>>> Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major issue.
>>> When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.)
>>> ..then tell me its not major.

I think most would interpret "when you have it occur 40-50 times with 20 over 
signal" as the number of out-of-sync collisions that occurred during just one 
of your ALE-400 contacts and not the number of times overall. 

Understand if you'd rather not discuss it further. Hope you're able to get it 
working; let us know what you find. 

Tony -K2MO

  
- Original Message - 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400


> ***"If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem 
> that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways"***
> 
> 40 to 50 times during a QSO!!..WOW... Damn..I think If it occured that 
> many times during 1 QSO..I would give up..
> Dont ya think
> 
> Look guys...Its MUST me something I'm doing wrong or my equipment..I mean...I 
> have only been using this mode
> from the time it came out... and on no less than 3 or 4 diff. radios, bands 
> and puters..
> With no less than 10-15 other users.
> 
> I have ONLY been on HF digi for JUST a few days ...Got my ticket from that 
> "Cracker Jack Box"
> Its me, its not really happining..
> 
> I mean.. the hundreds of other users surely would have found this 
> problemRight??
> 
> Just let it go...I have.
> 
> End of thread.
> 
> 73 de Trip - KT4WO
> 
> 
>  - Original Message - 
>  From: Tony 
>  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
>  Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:11 PM
>  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Trip, 
> 
>  > Its not a unique problem. KT4WO
> 
>  Well it does seem to be unique problem because we haven't heard from anyone 
> else with major sync issues (yet). Your comments will hopefully, bring them 
> out of the woodwork. In my experience and in the experience of others, 
> ALE-400 sync issues happen occasionally and are almost always associated with 
> weak signals. 
> 
>  As the band fades, the mode dips below it's useful threshold and loses sync. 
> At that point, it's time to quit or switch bands. Trying to continue after 
> that results in a high number of collisions / sync issues because signals are 
> just too weak. 
> 
>  If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that 
> happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways. That 
> certainly seems like a unique situation, but without knowing the 
> circumstances at the time, it's hard to tell what's really going on.  
> 
>  We would certainly appreciate a more detailed description of the band 
> conditions when the mode lost sync that excessive number of times. For 
> example; was there heavy QSB, QRM, QRN? Does it ever happen on a clear 
> channel?  Does it happen on one band more than others? Does it happen on one 
> PC more than another. 
> 
>  You're welcome to sked with me anytime Trip. I'm always on in the evenings 
> starting around 2300z. I run a 5 element 20 meter mono-band Yagi @ 60ft. I'm 
> sure we could work providing the propagation Gods cooperate.  
> 
>  Thanks, 
> 
>  Tony -K2MO 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  > Its not a unique problem.
>  > KT4WO
>  > 
>  > 
>  > On 8/31/09, Tony  wrote:
>  >> Trip,
>  >>
>  >> Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out what
>  >> it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you.
>  >>
>  >> Tony -K2MO
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> - Original Message -
>  >> From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
>  >> To: 
>  >> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
>  >> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>> w4pgh
>  >>> k3gau
>  >>> n4wi
>  >>> wa9hcz
>  >>> ni9y
>  >>> n9fdf
>  >>> k9vu
>  >>> wb8rol
>  >>> ai4cm
>  >>>
>  >>> Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work)
>  >>> Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot
>  >>> more(k3gau,w4pgh)
>  >>>
>  >>> No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost
>  >>> 100 bucks on.

[digitalradio] ALE400 on 14074

[John Bradley]

great conditions, 3 of us on now and looking for more at 0200Z

 

 

John

Ve5mu

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[kt4wo67]

EVERmy bad

  - Original Message - 
  From: DANNY DOUGLAS 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400





  What I dont understand, with all the reported contacts here on this group, 
why I am not seeing ANY of them on the spot network?  I would gladly give some 
of them a listen, if they showed up there, but they are not.  I have only 
recently downloaded Multipsk, though am very experienced with some of the 
modes, thru working with other single and multi mode programs such as MIXW, and 
have used PSK31-63, Packet, SSTV, HELL,THROB, MFSK, DOMINO, RTTY.  I have three 
different spot sources playing thru SpotCollector, and seldom, if ever, see 
anything beyond PSK or RTTY, out of all the digital modes.  So guys - if you 
are on, or copying someone, please use spots to so indicate. By the way, I 
sometimes see the group emials, but usually way too late to do anything about 
them.
  Danny Douglas
  N7DC
  ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
  SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB

  All 2 years or more (except Novice)
  Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
  I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for 
  those who do.  

  Moderator
  DXandTALK
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
  dxandt...@yahoogroups.com

  Moderator 
  Digital_modes
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159

- Original Message - 
From: kt4w...@gmail.com 
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400


  

***"If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem 
that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways"***

40 to 50 times during a QSO!!..WOW... Damn..I think If it occured that 
many times during 1 QSO..I would give up..
Dont ya think

Look guys...Its MUST me something I'm doing wrong or my equipment..I 
mean...I have only been using this mode
from the time it came out... and on no less than 3 or 4 diff. radios, bands 
and puters..
With no less than 10-15 other users.

I have ONLY been on HF digi for JUST a few days ...Got my ticket from that 
"Cracker Jack Box"
Its me, its not really happining..

I mean.. the hundreds of other users surely would have found this 
problemRight??

Just let it go...I have.

End of thread.

73 de Trip - KT4WO


  - Original Message - 
  From: Tony 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:11 PM
      Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400


  Trip, 

  > Its not a unique problem. KT4WO

  Well it does seem to be unique problem because we haven't heard from 
anyone else with major sync issues (yet). Your comments will hopefully, bring 
them out of the woodwork. In my experience and in the experience of others, 
ALE-400 sync issues happen occasionally and are almost always associated with 
weak signals. 

  As the band fades, the mode dips below it's useful threshold and loses 
sync. At that point, it's time to quit or switch bands. Trying to continue 
after that results in a high number of collisions / sync issues because signals 
are just too weak. 

  If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem 
that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways. That 
certainly seems like a unique situation, but without knowing the circumstances 
at the time, it's hard to tell what's really going on.  

  We would certainly appreciate a more detailed description of the band 
conditions when the mode lost sync that excessive number of times. For example; 
was there heavy QSB, QRM, QRN? Does it ever happen on a clear channel?  Does it 
happen on one band more than others? Does it happen on one PC more than 
another. 

  You're welcome to sked with me anytime Trip. I'm always on in the 
evenings starting around 2300z. I run a 5 element 20 meter mono-band Yagi @ 
60ft. I'm sure we could work providing the propagation Gods cooperate.  

  Thanks, 

  Tony -K2MO 





  > Its not a unique problem.
  > KT4WO
  > 
  > 
  > On 8/31/09, Tony  wrote:
  >> Trip,
  >>
  >> Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out 
what
  >> it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you.
  >>
  >> Tony -K2MO
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> - Original Message -
  >> From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
  >> To: 
  >> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
  >> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
  >>
  >>
  >>> w4pgh
  >>> k3gau
  >>> n4wi
  &

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[kt4wo67]

Didnt you know Danny,,, There are hundreds of users on ALE400...
Making thousands of QSO's every day.
AND... none of them EVERY have a problem :)

Enjoy
Trip - KT4WO


  - Original Message - 
  From: DANNY DOUGLAS 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400





  What I dont understand, with all the reported contacts here on this group, 
why I am not seeing ANY of them on the spot network?  I would gladly give some 
of them a listen, if they showed up there, but they are not.  I have only 
recently downloaded Multipsk, though am very experienced with some of the 
modes, thru working with other single and multi mode programs such as MIXW, and 
have used PSK31-63, Packet, SSTV, HELL,THROB, MFSK, DOMINO, RTTY.  I have three 
different spot sources playing thru SpotCollector, and seldom, if ever, see 
anything beyond PSK or RTTY, out of all the digital modes.  So guys - if you 
are on, or copying someone, please use spots to so indicate. By the way, I 
sometimes see the group emials, but usually way too late to do anything about 
them.
  Danny Douglas
  N7DC
  ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
  SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB

  All 2 years or more (except Novice)
  Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
  I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for 
  those who do.  

  Moderator
  DXandTALK
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
  dxandt...@yahoogroups.com

  Moderator 
  Digital_modes
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159

- Original Message - 
From: kt4w...@gmail.com 
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400


  

***"If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem 
that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways"***

40 to 50 times during a QSO!!..WOW... Damn..I think If it occured that 
many times during 1 QSO..I would give up..
Dont ya think

Look guys...Its MUST me something I'm doing wrong or my equipment..I 
mean...I have only been using this mode
from the time it came out... and on no less than 3 or 4 diff. radios, bands 
and puters..
With no less than 10-15 other users.

I have ONLY been on HF digi for JUST a few days ...Got my ticket from that 
"Cracker Jack Box"
Its me, its not really happining..

I mean.. the hundreds of other users surely would have found this 
problemRight??

Just let it go...I have.

End of thread.

73 de Trip - KT4WO


  - Original Message - 
  From: Tony 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:11 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400


  Trip, 

  > Its not a unique problem. KT4WO

  Well it does seem to be unique problem because we haven't heard from 
anyone else with major sync issues (yet). Your comments will hopefully, bring 
them out of the woodwork. In my experience and in the experience of others, 
ALE-400 sync issues happen occasionally and are almost always associated with 
weak signals. 

  As the band fades, the mode dips below it's useful threshold and loses 
sync. At that point, it's time to quit or switch bands. Trying to continue 
after that results in a high number of collisions / sync issues because signals 
are just too weak. 

  If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem 
that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways. That 
certainly seems like a unique situation, but without knowing the circumstances 
at the time, it's hard to tell what's really going on.  

  We would certainly appreciate a more detailed description of the band 
conditions when the mode lost sync that excessive number of times. For example; 
was there heavy QSB, QRM, QRN? Does it ever happen on a clear channel?  Does it 
happen on one band more than others? Does it happen on one PC more than 
another. 

  You're welcome to sked with me anytime Trip. I'm always on in the 
evenings starting around 2300z. I run a 5 element 20 meter mono-band Yagi @ 
60ft. I'm sure we could work providing the propagation Gods cooperate.  

  Thanks, 

  Tony -K2MO 





  > Its not a unique problem.
  > KT4WO
  > 
  > 
  > On 8/31/09, Tony  wrote:
  >> Trip,
  >>
  >> Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out 
what
  >> it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you.
  >>
  >> Tony -K2MO
  >>
  >>
  >>
      >> ----- Original Message -
  >> From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
  >> To: 
  >> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
  >>

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[DANNY DOUGLAS]

What I dont understand, with all the reported contacts here on this group, why 
I am not seeing ANY of them on the spot network?  I would gladly give some of 
them a listen, if they showed up there, but they are not.  I have only recently 
downloaded Multipsk, though am very experienced with some of the modes, thru 
working with other single and multi mode programs such as MIXW, and have used 
PSK31-63, Packet, SSTV, HELL,THROB, MFSK, DOMINO, RTTY.  I have three different 
spot sources playing thru SpotCollector, and seldom, if ever, see anything 
beyond PSK or RTTY, out of all the digital modes.  So guys - if you are on, or 
copying someone, please use spots to so indicate. By the way, I sometimes see 
the group emials, but usually way too late to do anything about them.
Danny Douglas
N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB

All 2 years or more (except Novice)
Pls QSL direct, buro, or LOTW preferred,
I Do not use, but as a courtesy do upload to eQSL for 
those who do.  

Moderator
DXandTALK
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DXandTalk
dxandt...@yahoogroups.com

Moderator 
Digital_modes
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digital_modes/?yguid=341090159

  - Original Message - 
  From: kt4w...@gmail.com 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400



  ***"If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem 
that happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways"***

  40 to 50 times during a QSO!!..WOW... Damn..I think If it occured that 
many times during 1 QSO..I would give up..
  Dont ya think

  Look guys...Its MUST me something I'm doing wrong or my equipment..I mean...I 
have only been using this mode
  from the time it came out... and on no less than 3 or 4 diff. radios, bands 
and puters..
  With no less than 10-15 other users.

  I have ONLY been on HF digi for JUST a few days ...Got my ticket from that 
"Cracker Jack Box"
  Its me, its not really happining..

  I mean.. the hundreds of other users surely would have found this 
problemRight??

  Just let it go...I have.

  End of thread.

  73 de Trip - KT4WO


- Original Message - 
From: Tony 
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:11 PM
    Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400


Trip, 

> Its not a unique problem. KT4WO

Well it does seem to be unique problem because we haven't heard from anyone 
else with major sync issues (yet). Your comments will hopefully, bring them out 
of the woodwork. In my experience and in the experience of others, ALE-400 sync 
issues happen occasionally and are almost always associated with weak signals. 

As the band fades, the mode dips below it's useful threshold and loses 
sync. At that point, it's time to quit or switch bands. Trying to continue 
after that results in a high number of collisions / sync issues because signals 
are just too weak. 

If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that 
happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways. That 
certainly seems like a unique situation, but without knowing the circumstances 
at the time, it's hard to tell what's really going on.  

We would certainly appreciate a more detailed description of the band 
conditions when the mode lost sync that excessive number of times. For example; 
was there heavy QSB, QRM, QRN? Does it ever happen on a clear channel?  Does it 
happen on one band more than others? Does it happen on one PC more than 
another. 

You're welcome to sked with me anytime Trip. I'm always on in the evenings 
starting around 2300z. I run a 5 element 20 meter mono-band Yagi @ 60ft. I'm 
sure we could work providing the propagation Gods cooperate.  

Thanks, 

Tony -K2MO 





> Its not a unique problem.
> KT4WO
> 
> 
> On 8/31/09, Tony  wrote:
>> Trip,
>>
>> Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out 
what
>> it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you.
>>
>> Tony -K2MO
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
>>
>>
>>> w4pgh
>>> k3gau
>>> n4wi
>>> wa9hcz
>>> ni9y
>>> n9fdf
>>> k9vu
>>> wb8rol
>>> ai4cm
>>>
>>> Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work)
>>> Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot
>>> more(k3gau,w4pgh)
>>>

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[kt4wo67]

***"If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that 
happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways"***

40 to 50 times during a QSO!!..WOW... Damn..I think If it occured that many 
times during 1 QSO..I would give up..
Dont ya think

Look guys...Its MUST me something I'm doing wrong or my equipment..I mean...I 
have only been using this mode
from the time it came out... and on no less than 3 or 4 diff. radios, bands and 
puters..
With no less than 10-15 other users.

I have ONLY been on HF digi for JUST a few days ...Got my ticket from that 
"Cracker Jack Box"
Its me, its not really happining..
 
I mean.. the hundreds of other users surely would have found this 
problemRight??

Just let it go...I have.

End of thread.

73 de Trip - KT4WO


  - Original Message - 
  From: Tony 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:11 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400





  Trip, 

  > Its not a unique problem. KT4WO

  Well it does seem to be unique problem because we haven't heard from anyone 
else with major sync issues (yet). Your comments will hopefully, bring them out 
of the woodwork. In my experience and in the experience of others, ALE-400 sync 
issues happen occasionally and are almost always associated with weak signals. 

  As the band fades, the mode dips below it's useful threshold and loses sync. 
At that point, it's time to quit or switch bands. Trying to continue after that 
results in a high number of collisions / sync issues because signals are just 
too weak. 

  If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that 
happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways. That 
certainly seems like a unique situation, but without knowing the circumstances 
at the time, it's hard to tell what's really going on.  

  We would certainly appreciate a more detailed description of the band 
conditions when the mode lost sync that excessive number of times. For example; 
was there heavy QSB, QRM, QRN? Does it ever happen on a clear channel?  Does it 
happen on one band more than others? Does it happen on one PC more than 
another. 

  You're welcome to sked with me anytime Trip. I'm always on in the evenings 
starting around 2300z. I run a 5 element 20 meter mono-band Yagi @ 60ft. I'm 
sure we could work providing the propagation Gods cooperate.  

  Thanks, 

  Tony -K2MO 





  > Its not a unique problem.
  > KT4WO
  > 
  > 
  > On 8/31/09, Tony  wrote:
  >> Trip,
  >>
  >> Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out what
  >> it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you.
  >>
  >> Tony -K2MO
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> - Original Message -
  >> From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
  >> To: 
  >> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
  >> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
  >>
  >>
  >>> w4pgh
  >>> k3gau
  >>> n4wi
  >>> wa9hcz
  >>> ni9y
  >>> n9fdf
  >>> k9vu
  >>> wb8rol
  >>> ai4cm
  >>>
  >>> Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work)
  >>> Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot
  >>> more(k3gau,w4pgh)
  >>>
  >>> No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost
  >>> 100 bucks on...lol
  >>>
  >>> AgainI love MultiPSK...I almost never run any other
  >>> digi-ware...well...FLDigi when I run Puppy.  MultiPSK is the ONLY digi
  >>> software I have paid for...and that says alot for me...
  >>> Im cheap!!...LOL
  >>>
  >>> If it just had a delay kick in when it losses sync...then it could
  >>> re-sync.  One gud static crash and it can lose sync.
  >>>
  >>> Look...Im not trin' to be a prick... but we have tried
  >>> everything..."been there, done that" kinda
  >>> thing... Me and Bill gave up on it and now use Olivia or
  >>> DominoEXmost of the time(75%) it works fine... but that 25% was
  >>> just too much...  and I didnt keep records..it may not be 25%..but it
  >>> was enuff to frustrate(sp?) us
  >>>
  >>> I think if that ONE issue was solved..ALE/FAE400 would be the BEST
  >>> error free soundcard mode out there!!
  >>>
  >>> KT4WO
  >>>
  >>>
  >>> On 8/30/09, Tony  wrote:
  >>>> Thomas,
  >>>>
  >>>>> W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months
  >>>>
  >>>> Just a thought here...
  >>>>

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Tony]

Trip, 

> Its not a unique problem. KT4WO

Well it does seem to be unique problem because we haven't heard from anyone 
else with major sync issues (yet). Your comments will hopefully, bring them out 
of the woodwork. In my experience and in the experience of others, ALE-400 sync 
issues happen occasionally and are almost always associated with weak signals. 

As the band fades, the mode dips below it's useful threshold and loses sync. At 
that point, it's time to quit or switch bands. Trying to continue after that 
results in a high number of collisions / sync issues because signals are just 
too weak. 

If I'm not mistaken, you referred to the sync issue as a major problem that 
happens 40-to-50 times during a QSO with S-9 plus signals both ways. That 
certainly seems like a unique situation, but without knowing the circumstances 
at the time, it's hard to tell what's really going on.  

We would certainly appreciate a more detailed description of the band 
conditions when the mode lost sync that excessive number of times. For example; 
was there heavy QSB, QRM, QRN? Does it ever happen on a clear channel?  Does it 
happen on one band more than others? Does it happen on one PC more than 
another. 

You're welcome to sked with me anytime Trip. I'm always on in the evenings 
starting around 2300z. I run a 5 element 20 meter mono-band Yagi @ 60ft. I'm 
sure we could work providing the propagation Gods cooperate.  

Thanks, 

Tony -K2MO 





> Its not a unique problem.
> KT4WO
> 
> 
> On 8/31/09, Tony  wrote:
>> Trip,
>>
>> Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out what
>> it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you.
>>
>> Tony -K2MO
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
>>
>>
>>> w4pgh
>>> k3gau
>>> n4wi
>>> wa9hcz
>>> ni9y
>>> n9fdf
>>> k9vu
>>> wb8rol
>>> ai4cm
>>>
>>> Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work)
>>> Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot
>>> more(k3gau,w4pgh)
>>>
>>> No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost
>>> 100 bucks on...lol
>>>
>>> AgainI love MultiPSK...I almost never run any other
>>> digi-ware...well...FLDigi when I run Puppy.  MultiPSK is the ONLY digi
>>> software I have paid for...and that says alot for me...
>>> Im cheap!!...LOL
>>>
>>> If it just had a delay kick in when it losses sync...then it could
>>> re-sync.  One gud static crash and it can lose sync.
>>>
>>> Look...Im not trin' to be a prick... but we have tried
>>> everything..."been there, done that" kinda
>>> thing... Me and Bill gave up on it and now use Olivia or
>>> DominoEXmost of the time(75%) it works fine... but that 25% was
>>> just too much...  and I didnt keep records..it may not be 25%..but it
>>> was enuff to frustrate(sp?) us
>>>
>>> I think if that ONE issue was solved..ALE/FAE400 would be the BEST
>>> error free soundcard mode out there!!
>>>
>>> KT4WO
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/30/09, Tony  wrote:
>>>> Thomas,
>>>>
>>>>> W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months
>>>>
>>>> Just a thought here...
>>>>
>>>> Your station setup sounds ok, but could it be that W4PGH has a VOX delay
>>>> on
>>>> or some other issue? Have you worked anyone else on ALE-400?
>>>>
>>>> Tony -K2MO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Original Message -
>>>> From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
>>>> To: 
>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:54 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I have also used ALE/FAE400 since it was developed ... and no VOX
>>>>> 2.4 pent 4 with gig of ram...or 1 gig pent3 with 512 ram or 800mhz
>>>>> pent 3 with 512 or 1.5 gig ATOM w/1gig ram.4 diff. homebrew
>>>>> interfaces some with xformers..some notIcom IC-718 or Kenwood
>>>>> TS-50 or Kenwood TS450SAT or Kenwood TS-180SHalf-Wave
>>>>> dipoles...160-80-40-30...1/4wave Vert on 30
>>>>>
>>>>> Over 6,000 digital(HF) QSO's logged in the last 14 years... from the
>>>

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Patrick Lindecker]

John,

Yes, in the big majority of QSOs, it is rare to find a long period of deep QSB. 
However...

But to leave a message to an ARQ FAE beacon 
(connection->transmission->disconnection), this problem does not appear, except 
if the message carries a relatively big file, which will take much time to be 
transmitted.

73
Patrick
  - Original Message - 
  From: John Bradley 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; multi...@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 5:54 PM
  Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400





   

  "> I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a 
  > "slottime" or some random timer...
  > I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400.
  > Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become "mainstream"
  > I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out.
  > So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck getting
  > him to address this.??!!??! !??
  > Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave "sees" this is a problem, 
  > Patrick
  > will fix it???



   

  This is not a MAJOR issue.. Tony , K2M) and I were testing this and found 
that while we could get ALE400 out of sync under very weak

  signals . we both had to go QRP, by not typing anything into the buffer for a 
moment got the signal back without further collisions. 

  Seemed to work well for us.

   

  Both using the latest (13th) test version of multipsk, not sure if that has 
any effect,  found at http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_13_08_2009.ZIP



   

  john

  VE5MU




  

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Thomas Carswell Jr.]

Its not a unique problem.
KT4WO


On 8/31/09, Tony  wrote:
> Trip,
>
> Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out what
> it is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you.
>
> Tony -K2MO
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
>
>
>> w4pgh
>> k3gau
>> n4wi
>> wa9hcz
>> ni9y
>> n9fdf
>> k9vu
>> wb8rol
>> ai4cm
>>
>> Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work)
>> Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot
>> more(k3gau,w4pgh)
>>
>> No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost
>> 100 bucks on...lol
>>
>> AgainI love MultiPSK...I almost never run any other
>> digi-ware...well...FLDigi when I run Puppy.  MultiPSK is the ONLY digi
>> software I have paid for...and that says alot for me...
>> Im cheap!!...LOL
>>
>> If it just had a delay kick in when it losses sync...then it could
>> re-sync.  One gud static crash and it can lose sync.
>>
>> Look...Im not trin' to be a prick... but we have tried
>> everything..."been there, done that" kinda
>> thing... Me and Bill gave up on it and now use Olivia or
>> DominoEXmost of the time(75%) it works fine... but that 25% was
>> just too much...  and I didnt keep records..it may not be 25%..but it
>> was enuff to frustrate(sp?) us
>>
>> I think if that ONE issue was solved..ALE/FAE400 would be the BEST
>> error free soundcard mode out there!!
>>
>> KT4WO
>>
>>
>> On 8/30/09, Tony  wrote:
>>> Thomas,
>>>
>>>> W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months
>>>
>>> Just a thought here...
>>>
>>> Your station setup sounds ok, but could it be that W4PGH has a VOX delay
>>> on
>>> or some other issue? Have you worked anyone else on ALE-400?
>>>
>>> Tony -K2MO
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:54 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
>>>
>>>
>>>>I have also used ALE/FAE400 since it was developed ... and no VOX
>>>> 2.4 pent 4 with gig of ram...or 1 gig pent3 with 512 ram or 800mhz
>>>> pent 3 with 512 or 1.5 gig ATOM w/1gig ram.4 diff. homebrew
>>>> interfaces some with xformers..some notIcom IC-718 or Kenwood
>>>> TS-50 or Kenwood TS450SAT or Kenwood TS-180SHalf-Wave
>>>> dipoles...160-80-40-30...1/4wave Vert on 30
>>>>
>>>> Over 6,000 digital(HF) QSO's logged in the last 14 years... from the
>>>> old HAL RTTY interface to the new soundcard modes...
>>>>
>>>> Im not a NCPNG that just got on HF/DigiModes last year...LOL... I have
>>>> been on some type of "digi mode" for the last 18 years.
>>>>
>>>> What I see as a "major" problem.. you may not...thats cool... but
>>>> W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months on
>>>> 80 and 160.he is 40 miles from me.
>>>> The sync issue..is just that. Its not my radio, interface, antenna,
>>>> computer...or me..LOL
>>>>
>>>> Its great ya'll are not having the "issue" too offten.  But ...When
>>>> hams try it out for the first time and it loses sync a few
>>>> times...they will just switch modes and not look back.
>>>>
>>>> KT4WO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/30/09, Sholto Fisher  wrote:
>>>>> Trip,
>>>>>
>>>>> You're not by any chance using a VOX interface (like the Signalink)
>>>>> with
>>>>> the delay button pressed in are you? That would really screw up the
>>>>> timing of FAE400.
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't experienced the collision problem other than when sigs are
>>>>> really buried in noise.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have also used FAE400 since it was developed and am sure I would have
>>>>> noticed a major issue like this from the outset.
>>>>>
>>>>> One other thing to consider: What speed of PC are you running it on?
>>>>>
>>>>> 73
>>>>>
>>>>> 

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Tony]

Trip, 

Sounds like you have a unique problem with ALE-400. Hope you find out what it 
is and please let us know when you do. Sorry we couldn't help you. 

Tony -K2MO


 
- Original Message - 
From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400


> w4pgh
> k3gau
> n4wi
> wa9hcz
> ni9y
> n9fdf
> k9vu
> wb8rol
> ai4cm
> 
> Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work)
> Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot more(k3gau,w4pgh)
> 
> No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost
> 100 bucks on...lol
> 
> AgainI love MultiPSK...I almost never run any other
> digi-ware...well...FLDigi when I run Puppy.  MultiPSK is the ONLY digi
> software I have paid for...and that says alot for me...
> Im cheap!!...LOL
> 
> If it just had a delay kick in when it losses sync...then it could
> re-sync.  One gud static crash and it can lose sync.
> 
> Look...Im not trin' to be a prick... but we have tried
> everything..."been there, done that" kinda
> thing... Me and Bill gave up on it and now use Olivia or
> DominoEXmost of the time(75%) it works fine... but that 25% was
> just too much...  and I didnt keep records..it may not be 25%..but it
> was enuff to frustrate(sp?) us
> 
> I think if that ONE issue was solved..ALE/FAE400 would be the BEST
> error free soundcard mode out there!!
> 
> KT4WO
> 
> 
> On 8/30/09, Tony  wrote:
>> Thomas,
>>
>>> W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months
>>
>> Just a thought here...
>>
>> Your station setup sounds ok, but could it be that W4PGH has a VOX delay on
>> or some other issue? Have you worked anyone else on ALE-400?
>>
>> Tony -K2MO
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
>>
>>
>>>I have also used ALE/FAE400 since it was developed ... and no VOX
>>> 2.4 pent 4 with gig of ram...or 1 gig pent3 with 512 ram or 800mhz
>>> pent 3 with 512 or 1.5 gig ATOM w/1gig ram.4 diff. homebrew
>>> interfaces some with xformers..some notIcom IC-718 or Kenwood
>>> TS-50 or Kenwood TS450SAT or Kenwood TS-180SHalf-Wave
>>> dipoles...160-80-40-30...1/4wave Vert on 30
>>>
>>> Over 6,000 digital(HF) QSO's logged in the last 14 years... from the
>>> old HAL RTTY interface to the new soundcard modes...
>>>
>>> Im not a NCPNG that just got on HF/DigiModes last year...LOL... I have
>>> been on some type of "digi mode" for the last 18 years.
>>>
>>> What I see as a "major" problem.. you may not...thats cool... but
>>> W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months on
>>> 80 and 160.he is 40 miles from me.
>>> The sync issue..is just that. Its not my radio, interface, antenna,
>>> computer...or me..LOL
>>>
>>> Its great ya'll are not having the "issue" too offten.  But ...When
>>> hams try it out for the first time and it loses sync a few
>>> times...they will just switch modes and not look back.
>>>
>>> KT4WO
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/30/09, Sholto Fisher  wrote:
>>>> Trip,
>>>>
>>>> You're not by any chance using a VOX interface (like the Signalink) with
>>>> the delay button pressed in are you? That would really screw up the
>>>> timing of FAE400.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't experienced the collision problem other than when sigs are
>>>> really buried in noise.
>>>>
>>>> I have also used FAE400 since it was developed and am sure I would have
>>>> noticed a major issue like this from the outset.
>>>>
>>>> One other thing to consider: What speed of PC are you running it on?
>>>>
>>>> 73
>>>>
>>>> Sholto
>>>> K7TMG
>>>>
>>>> Thomas Carswell Jr. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue
>>>>> is not just a
>>>>> one time thing... and not just on QRP.
>>>>> Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major
>>>>> issue.
>>>>> When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.)
>>>>> ..then tell me its not major.
&g

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Thomas Carswell Jr.]

BTW...its not Thomas... name is Trip...Thomas is my dad..lol

Trip - KT4WO



On 8/30/09, Thomas Carswell Jr.  wrote:
> w4pgh
> k3gau
> n4wi
> wa9hcz
> ni9y
> n9fdf
> k9vu
> wb8rol
> ai4cm
>
> Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work)
> Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot
> more(k3gau,w4pgh)
>
> No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost
> 100 bucks on...lol
>
> AgainI love MultiPSK...I almost never run any other
> digi-ware...well...FLDigi when I run Puppy.  MultiPSK is the ONLY digi
> software I have paid for...and that says alot for me...
> Im cheap!!...LOL
>
> If it just had a delay kick in when it losses sync...then it could
> re-sync.  One gud static crash and it can lose sync.
>
> Look...Im not trin' to be a prick... but we have tried
> everything..."been there, done that" kinda
> thing... Me and Bill gave up on it and now use Olivia or
> DominoEXmost of the time(75%) it works fine... but that 25% was
> just too much...  and I didnt keep records..it may not be 25%..but it
> was enuff to frustrate(sp?) us
>
> I think if that ONE issue was solved..ALE/FAE400 would be the BEST
> error free soundcard mode out there!!
>
> KT4WO
>
>
> On 8/30/09, Tony  wrote:
>> Thomas,
>>
>>> W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months
>>
>> Just a thought here...
>>
>> Your station setup sounds ok, but could it be that W4PGH has a VOX delay
>> on
>> or some other issue? Have you worked anyone else on ALE-400?
>>
>> Tony -K2MO
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
>>
>>
>>>I have also used ALE/FAE400 since it was developed ... and no VOX
>>> 2.4 pent 4 with gig of ram...or 1 gig pent3 with 512 ram or 800mhz
>>> pent 3 with 512 or 1.5 gig ATOM w/1gig ram.4 diff. homebrew
>>> interfaces some with xformers..some notIcom IC-718 or Kenwood
>>> TS-50 or Kenwood TS450SAT or Kenwood TS-180SHalf-Wave
>>> dipoles...160-80-40-30...1/4wave Vert on 30
>>>
>>> Over 6,000 digital(HF) QSO's logged in the last 14 years... from the
>>> old HAL RTTY interface to the new soundcard modes...
>>>
>>> Im not a NCPNG that just got on HF/DigiModes last year...LOL... I have
>>> been on some type of "digi mode" for the last 18 years.
>>>
>>> What I see as a "major" problem.. you may not...thats cool... but
>>> W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months on
>>> 80 and 160.he is 40 miles from me.
>>> The sync issue..is just that. Its not my radio, interface, antenna,
>>> computer...or me..LOL
>>>
>>> Its great ya'll are not having the "issue" too offten.  But ...When
>>> hams try it out for the first time and it loses sync a few
>>> times...they will just switch modes and not look back.
>>>
>>> KT4WO
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/30/09, Sholto Fisher  wrote:
>>>> Trip,
>>>>
>>>> You're not by any chance using a VOX interface (like the Signalink)
>>>> with
>>>> the delay button pressed in are you? That would really screw up the
>>>> timing of FAE400.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't experienced the collision problem other than when sigs are
>>>> really buried in noise.
>>>>
>>>> I have also used FAE400 since it was developed and am sure I would have
>>>> noticed a major issue like this from the outset.
>>>>
>>>> One other thing to consider: What speed of PC are you running it on?
>>>>
>>>> 73
>>>>
>>>> Sholto
>>>> K7TMG
>>>>
>>>> Thomas Carswell Jr. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue
>>>>> is not just a
>>>>> one time thing... and not just on QRP.
>>>>> Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major
>>>>> issue.
>>>>> When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.)
>>>>> ..then tell me its not major.
>>>>> I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops.
>>>>> BTW..the new "PSK-Packet" has the same problem.
>>>>

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Thomas Carswell Jr.]

w4pgh
k3gau
n4wi
wa9hcz
ni9y
n9fdf
k9vu
wb8rol
ai4cm

Thats just the ones in my log on laptop(im at work)
Most of those I have worked at least 3-5 times, somealot more(k3gau,w4pgh)

No less than 8 diff. soundcards..from onboard to one I spent almost
100 bucks on...lol

AgainI love MultiPSK...I almost never run any other
digi-ware...well...FLDigi when I run Puppy.  MultiPSK is the ONLY digi
software I have paid for...and that says alot for me...
Im cheap!!...LOL

If it just had a delay kick in when it losses sync...then it could
re-sync.  One gud static crash and it can lose sync.

Look...Im not trin' to be a prick... but we have tried
everything..."been there, done that" kinda
thing... Me and Bill gave up on it and now use Olivia or
DominoEXmost of the time(75%) it works fine... but that 25% was
just too much...  and I didnt keep records..it may not be 25%..but it
was enuff to frustrate(sp?) us

I think if that ONE issue was solved..ALE/FAE400 would be the BEST
error free soundcard mode out there!!

KT4WO


On 8/30/09, Tony  wrote:
> Thomas,
>
>> W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months
>
> Just a thought here...
>
> Your station setup sounds ok, but could it be that W4PGH has a VOX delay on
> or some other issue? Have you worked anyone else on ALE-400?
>
> Tony -K2MO
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
>
>
>>I have also used ALE/FAE400 since it was developed ... and no VOX
>> 2.4 pent 4 with gig of ram...or 1 gig pent3 with 512 ram or 800mhz
>> pent 3 with 512 or 1.5 gig ATOM w/1gig ram.4 diff. homebrew
>> interfaces some with xformers..some notIcom IC-718 or Kenwood
>> TS-50 or Kenwood TS450SAT or Kenwood TS-180SHalf-Wave
>> dipoles...160-80-40-30...1/4wave Vert on 30
>>
>> Over 6,000 digital(HF) QSO's logged in the last 14 years... from the
>> old HAL RTTY interface to the new soundcard modes...
>>
>> Im not a NCPNG that just got on HF/DigiModes last year...LOL... I have
>> been on some type of "digi mode" for the last 18 years.
>>
>> What I see as a "major" problem.. you may not...thats cool... but
>> W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months on
>> 80 and 160.he is 40 miles from me.
>> The sync issue..is just that. Its not my radio, interface, antenna,
>> computer...or me..LOL
>>
>> Its great ya'll are not having the "issue" too offten.  But ...When
>> hams try it out for the first time and it loses sync a few
>> times...they will just switch modes and not look back.
>>
>> KT4WO
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/30/09, Sholto Fisher  wrote:
>>> Trip,
>>>
>>> You're not by any chance using a VOX interface (like the Signalink) with
>>> the delay button pressed in are you? That would really screw up the
>>> timing of FAE400.
>>>
>>> I haven't experienced the collision problem other than when sigs are
>>> really buried in noise.
>>>
>>> I have also used FAE400 since it was developed and am sure I would have
>>> noticed a major issue like this from the outset.
>>>
>>> One other thing to consider: What speed of PC are you running it on?
>>>
>>> 73
>>>
>>> Sholto
>>> K7TMG
>>>
>>> Thomas Carswell Jr. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue
>>>> is not just a
>>>> one time thing... and not just on QRP.
>>>> Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major
>>>> issue.
>>>> When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.)
>>>> ..then tell me its not major.
>>>> I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops.
>>>> BTW..the new "PSK-Packet" has the same problem.
>>>> KT4WO
>>>>
>>>> On 8/30/09, John Bradley >>> <mailto:jbradley%40sasktel.net>> wrote:
>>>>  >
>>>>  >
>>>>  > "> I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a
>>>>  >> "slottime" or some random timer...
>>>>  >> I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with
>>>> ALE400.
>>>>  >> Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become "mainstream"
>>>>  >> I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out.
>>>>  >> So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck
>>>>  > getting
>>>>  >> him to address this.??!!??! !??
>>>>  >> Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave "sees" this is a
>>>> problem,
>>>>  >> Patrick
>>>>  >> will fix it???
>>>>  >
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at
>>> http://www.obriensweb.com/sked
>>>
>>> Recommended digital mode software:  Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or
>>> Multipsk
>>> Logging Software:  DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Tony]

Thomas, 

> W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months 

Just a thought here... 

Your station setup sounds ok, but could it be that W4PGH has a VOX delay on or 
some other issue? Have you worked anyone else on ALE-400? 

Tony -K2MO


- Original Message - 
From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400


>I have also used ALE/FAE400 since it was developed ... and no VOX
> 2.4 pent 4 with gig of ram...or 1 gig pent3 with 512 ram or 800mhz
> pent 3 with 512 or 1.5 gig ATOM w/1gig ram.4 diff. homebrew
> interfaces some with xformers..some notIcom IC-718 or Kenwood
> TS-50 or Kenwood TS450SAT or Kenwood TS-180SHalf-Wave
> dipoles...160-80-40-30...1/4wave Vert on 30
> 
> Over 6,000 digital(HF) QSO's logged in the last 14 years... from the
> old HAL RTTY interface to the new soundcard modes...
> 
> Im not a NCPNG that just got on HF/DigiModes last year...LOL... I have
> been on some type of "digi mode" for the last 18 years.
> 
> What I see as a "major" problem.. you may not...thats cool... but
> W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months on
> 80 and 160.he is 40 miles from me.
> The sync issue..is just that. Its not my radio, interface, antenna,
> computer...or me..LOL
> 
> Its great ya'll are not having the "issue" too offten.  But ...When
> hams try it out for the first time and it loses sync a few
> times...they will just switch modes and not look back.
> 
> KT4WO
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/30/09, Sholto Fisher  wrote:
>> Trip,
>>
>> You're not by any chance using a VOX interface (like the Signalink) with
>> the delay button pressed in are you? That would really screw up the
>> timing of FAE400.
>>
>> I haven't experienced the collision problem other than when sigs are
>> really buried in noise.
>>
>> I have also used FAE400 since it was developed and am sure I would have
>> noticed a major issue like this from the outset.
>>
>> One other thing to consider: What speed of PC are you running it on?
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Sholto
>> K7TMG
>>
>> Thomas Carswell Jr. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue
>>> is not just a
>>> one time thing... and not just on QRP.
>>> Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major issue.
>>> When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.)
>>> ..then tell me its not major.
>>> I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops.
>>> BTW..the new "PSK-Packet" has the same problem.
>>> KT4WO
>>>
>>> On 8/30/09, John Bradley >> <mailto:jbradley%40sasktel.net>> wrote:
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > "> I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a
>>>  >> "slottime" or some random timer...
>>>  >> I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with
>>> ALE400.
>>>  >> Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become "mainstream"
>>>  >> I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out.
>>>  >> So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck
>>>  > getting
>>>  >> him to address this.??!!??! !??
>>>  >> Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave "sees" this is a
>>> problem,
>>>  >> Patrick
>>>  >> will fix it???
>>>  >
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at
>> http://www.obriensweb.com/sked
>>
>> Recommended digital mode software:  Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk
>> Logging Software:  DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Tony]

> Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg)...BUT It IS a major issue.
> When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.)
> ..then tell me its not major.

That is excessive Thomas. I've had many lengthy ALE-400 QSO's without any sync 
problems. In fact, John (VE5MU) and I recently tried to force the mode 
out-of-sync without success. 

I think you may have a problem with your setup and the first place I'd look is 
VOX delay. The TX/RX turn around time with ALE-400 is probably less than 1/2 
second so if the VOX delay is long enough, it will cut-off a portion of the 
incoming signal causing repeats and sync issues.  

What kind of rig / interface are you using? 

Tony -K2MO 





- Original Message - 
From: "Thomas Carswell Jr." 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400


> Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue
> is not just a
> one time thing... and not just on QRP.
> Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg)...BUT It IS a major issue.
> When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.)
> ..then tell me its not major.
> I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops.
> BTW..the new "PSK-Packet" has the same problem.
> KT4WO
> 
> 
> On 8/30/09, John Bradley  wrote:
>>
>>
>> "> I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a
>>> "slottime" or some random timer...
>>> I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400.
>>> Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become "mainstream"
>>> I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out.
>>> So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck
>> getting
>>> him to address this.??!!??! !??
>>> Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave "sees" this is a problem,
>>> Patrick
>>> will fix it???
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This is not a MAJOR issue.. Tony , K2M) and I were testing this and found
>> that while we could get ALE400 out of sync under very weak
>>
>> signals . we both had to go QRP, by not typing anything into the buffer for
>> a moment got the signal back without further collisions.
>>
>> Seemed to work well for us.
>>
>>
>>
>> Both using the latest (13th) test version of multipsk, not sure if that has
>> any effect,  found at  <http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_13_08_2009.ZIP>
>> http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_13_08_2009.ZIP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> john
>>
>> VE5MU
>>
>>
>

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Thomas Carswell Jr.]

I have also used ALE/FAE400 since it was developed ... and no VOX
2.4 pent 4 with gig of ram...or 1 gig pent3 with 512 ram or 800mhz
pent 3 with 512 or 1.5 gig ATOM w/1gig ram.4 diff. homebrew
interfaces some with xformers..some notIcom IC-718 or Kenwood
TS-50 or Kenwood TS450SAT or Kenwood TS-180SHalf-Wave
dipoles...160-80-40-30...1/4wave Vert on 30

Over 6,000 digital(HF) QSO's logged in the last 14 years... from the
old HAL RTTY interface to the new soundcard modes...

Im not a NCPNG that just got on HF/DigiModes last year...LOL... I have
been on some type of "digi mode" for the last 18 years.

What I see as a "major" problem.. you may not...thats cool... but
W4PGH and myself ran this mode 3 to 5 days a week for over 6 months on
80 and 160.he is 40 miles from me.
The sync issue..is just that. Its not my radio, interface, antenna,
computer...or me..LOL

Its great ya'll are not having the "issue" too offten.  But ...When
hams try it out for the first time and it loses sync a few
times...they will just switch modes and not look back.

KT4WO



On 8/30/09, Sholto Fisher  wrote:
> Trip,
>
> You're not by any chance using a VOX interface (like the Signalink) with
> the delay button pressed in are you? That would really screw up the
> timing of FAE400.
>
> I haven't experienced the collision problem other than when sigs are
> really buried in noise.
>
> I have also used FAE400 since it was developed and am sure I would have
> noticed a major issue like this from the outset.
>
> One other thing to consider: What speed of PC are you running it on?
>
> 73
>
> Sholto
> K7TMG
>
> Thomas Carswell Jr. wrote:
>>
>>
>> Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue
>> is not just a
>> one time thing... and not just on QRP.
>> Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major issue.
>> When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.)
>> ..then tell me its not major.
>> I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops.
>> BTW..the new "PSK-Packet" has the same problem.
>> KT4WO
>>
>> On 8/30/09, John Bradley > > wrote:
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > "> I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a
>>  >> "slottime" or some random timer...
>>  >> I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with
>> ALE400.
>>  >> Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become "mainstream"
>>  >> I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out.
>>  >> So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck
>>  > getting
>>  >> him to address this.??!!??! !??
>>  >> Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave "sees" this is a
>> problem,
>>  >> Patrick
>>  >> will fix it???
>>  >
>
>
> 
>
> Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Pages at
> http://www.obriensweb.com/sked
>
> Recommended digital mode software:  Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or Multipsk
> Logging Software:  DXKeeper or Ham Radio Deluxe.
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Sholto Fisher]

Trip,

You're not by any chance using a VOX interface (like the Signalink) with 
the delay button pressed in are you? That would really screw up the 
timing of FAE400.

I haven't experienced the collision problem other than when sigs are 
really buried in noise.

I have also used FAE400 since it was developed and am sure I would have 
noticed a major issue like this from the outset.

One other thing to consider: What speed of PC are you running it on?

73

Sholto
K7TMG

Thomas Carswell Jr. wrote:
>  
> 
> Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue
> is not just a
> one time thing... and not just on QRP.
> Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg) ...BUT,,, , It IS a major issue.
> When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.)
> ..then tell me its not major.
> I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops.
> BTW..the new "PSK-Packet" has the same problem.
> KT4WO
> 
> On 8/30/09, John Bradley  > wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  > "> I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a
>  >> "slottime" or some random timer...
>  >> I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400.
>  >> Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become "mainstream"
>  >> I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out.
>  >> So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck
>  > getting
>  >> him to address this.??!!??! !??
>  >> Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave "sees" this is a problem,
>  >> Patrick
>  >> will fix it???
>  >

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Thomas Carswell Jr.]

Trust me pal... been using ALE400 from the start...the outa-sync issue
is not just a
one time thing... and not just on QRP.
Im a big fan of ALE400 and MultiPSK(reg)...BUT It IS a major issue.
When you have had it occur 40-50 times(with 20 over sig.)
..then tell me its not major.
I have had 100+ QSO's in this modewith 10-12 diff. ops.
BTW..the new "PSK-Packet" has the same problem.
KT4WO


On 8/30/09, John Bradley  wrote:
>
>
> "> I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a
>> "slottime" or some random timer...
>> I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400.
>> Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become "mainstream"
>> I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out.
>> So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck
> getting
>> him to address this.??!!??! !??
>> Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave "sees" this is a problem,
>> Patrick
>> will fix it???
>
>
>
>
>
> This is not a MAJOR issue.. Tony , K2M) and I were testing this and found
> that while we could get ALE400 out of sync under very weak
>
> signals . we both had to go QRP, by not typing anything into the buffer for
> a moment got the signal back without further collisions.
>
> Seemed to work well for us.
>
>
>
> Both using the latest (13th) test version of multipsk, not sure if that has
> any effect,  found at  
> http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_13_08_2009.ZIP
>
>
>
>
>
> john
>
> VE5MU
>
>

[digitalradio] ALE400

[John Bradley]

 

"> I have brought this up to Patrick a few timesI asked for a 
> "slottime" or some random timer...
> I think this would solve the problem. This is a MAJOR ISSUE with ALE400.
> Until this is fixed...ALE400 will never become "mainstream"
> I have been fighting this issuse sense ALE400 came out.
> So far...he has not worked on that..maybe you will have better luck
getting
> him to address this.??!!??! !??
> Maybe now that someone other than me and Dave "sees" this is a problem, 
> Patrick
> will fix it???



 

This is not a MAJOR issue.. Tony , K2M) and I were testing this and found
that while we could get ALE400 out of sync under very weak

signals . we both had to go QRP, by not typing anything into the buffer for
a moment got the signal back without further collisions. 

Seemed to work well for us.

 

Both using the latest (13th) test version of multipsk, not sure if that has
any effect,  found at  
http://f6cte.free.fr/MULTIPSK_TEST_13_08_2009.ZIP



 

john

VE5MU

[digitalradio] ALE400 testing

[John Bradley]

Both VE5EOC and VE5MU are currently listening on 14074, ALE400. Both
stations are in DO70QK, about 2km apart. 

 

Both stations are available for connect, and both stations will respond to
ARES as a group call (enter ARES on the call list, push call button)

Please send mail.

 

Open to suggestions as to a frequency on 80m or 40m for one of the above
stations. 

 

VE5EOC will operate 24/7 over the next few days, with a power of 50watts.
VE5MU will be monitoring when the operator is not chasing other modes

 

John

VE5MU

 

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Rick W]

I am probably too close to John on 20 meters as I never have any luck 
connecting. I am calling CQ and monitoring 14.074 with FAE400 right now 
(2115Z) and will try and have it on for a few hours when I am not 
experimenting with PSKmail_server.

73,

Rick, KV9U


John Bradley wrote:
>
>
> now that the dah-dee-dah –dee dee dah dah’s have all gone away, am 
> listening on 14074 dial @ 1625 hz .
>
> copied N9DSJ and K3MO last night…… you can connect to me even if I am 
> not in front of the rig, also will respond to an ARES net call. Give
>
> it a try.
>
> Am on now (2100Z ) to probably 0400Z or later since I tend to leave 
> the rig on ready for response.
>
> John
>
> VE5MU
>
>
>





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[digitalradio] ALE400

[John Bradley]

 

now that the dah-dee-dah -dee dee dah dah's have all gone away, am
listening on 14074 dial @ 1625 hz . 

 

copied N9DSJ and K3MO last night.. you can connect to me even if I am not in
front of the rig, also will respond to an ARES net call. Give

it  a try. 

 

Am on now (2100Z ) to probably 0400Z or later since I tend to leave the rig
on ready for response.

 

John

VE5MU

[digitalradio] ALE400

[John Bradley]

This mode used as ALE is much superior to PC-ALE since you can determine if
the path is there by sounding, and then do a connect to pass

traffic using the same software.  The other station can be unattended in
this process.

 

ALE141 also works well in exactly the same manner, no difference in
operation, just a little faster throughput, and a little less sensitivity
than ALE400

 

John

VE5MU

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a messaging

[Jose A. Amador]

Alan Barrow wrote:

> Yes, I understand "it works". FBB works OK on HF because once you are
> logged in, it's not that interactive. But you still have 2-3 turnarounds
> before you send the initial message, etc.

FBB protocol has a feature I find very valuable: the Z-modem style 
resume. JNOS had not achieved that until 1.11g or so... about the last I 
used seriously.

> Buried inside the P3 WL2K pactor transfers is a basic F6FBB chat &
> login. 

Yes, I have been able to login to WL2K from FBB using P2 or P3.

> Typically 5-10 seconds to link, get logged in, and sync prior to
> really transferring the messages.  Again, it works, lot's of messaging
> sent this way. But a bit wasteful. Why are you logging in when the
> system already knows who is sending it via your callsign? And you just
> sent the password in the clear on hf, so why bother? Login's are
> wasteful on HF. Lot's of analysis & discussion in this area as well.

That is interesting. I had (and lost) an archive collection of the early 
decisions in packet and BBS's. I learned a lot from that (and have 
forgotten many fine details as well).

> Real answer is a public/private key system. Anything else is wasted time
> & bandwidth. Adds no security, and reduces reliability.

I used the JNOS MD5 challenge/response logins. Otherwise, it was false 
security with clear passwords flying on the air.

I am not too familiar with the public/private key systems.

> SMTP over HF is much less efficient & reliable because it has many, many
> turnarounds. 

It is true. But JNOS LZW compressed SMTP fared fairly well in comparison.

> It's designed for a lan with infinite signal to noise
> ratio. :-) short packets, many turnarounds. With more overhead in the
> TCP/IP header than in the data sent.
> 
> So in the commercial & military systems, you see TCP/IP spoofing. Eat,
> then recreate the IP headers on the opposite end. Same for SMTP. 

I have never seen that in the ham world. Sounds interesting.

> (just like the trailblazer modems did with UUCP in the old unix days)

I lived that...

> So how do you deal with this using the tools you have? With BBSLink we
> use an FBB command structure, but compress the initiation of sending the
> message into a single file transfer. IE: the command, user ID, etc is
> prepended to the message and processed by bbslink. So no login chat over
> the air, retries, etc.
> 
> With HF, you only get so many seconds of decent S/N at times. You don't
> want to waste half of your window getting logged in using a system
> oriented for interactive users.

Certainly. But there is a catch. I have *SUFFERED* receiving a queue 
where the most important mail is not the one I get first. A tricky 
condition that may prove nasty in an emergency. Perhaps it could be 
handy to be offered a set of headers/message sizes to choose. Routinely, 
it should not be necessary, but could be invoked if needed. Something to 
think about. I am not too familiar with WL2K beyond being a user.

> If the message is short enough, it's a single send, then ack back from
> the receiving system. Longer messages do have an ack before the next
> frame is sent, etc. DBM is not perfect, but works, and is a true WW
> standard. (for as much as that means... F6FBB is also a defacto standard
> but there are very many implementation differences in login specifics,
> etc when talking to them programatically.) We'd like to see other
> protocols like FAE, etc leveragable as well.
> 
> So could you make JNOS/MSYS work over HF with a kiss modem? Most likely.
> Is that the best way? I think we can do better if we apply ourselves &
> work together. JNOS is certainly a useful tool in the mix. 

I have had a good experience with FBB and JNOS and feel that the 
networking part worked in a fairly decent way. I used MSYS very little 
and liked FBB a lot, I felt it led the race in the early 90's.

I am aware that the limit was not the networking part, but some 
sublayers in layer 1. I did quite a bit of FBB forwarding using my 
PTC-II and it worked wonderfully, with the same radio and using a lot 
less power. At least 10 times better on the average, thruput-wise.

Maybe there is some room for improvement left, but nevertheless, I don't 
feel that the wheel has to be reinvented. Maybe just use "more suitable 
tires", or "better roller bearings", but reusing what has been proven to 
work.

If the best known is not affordable, don't quit, and use another 
acceptable alternative. The worst is havin no comms at all.

I dared to answer John because if networking and HF are an important 
terms in "the equation" I would rather use what I know that somehow 
works and not wait until a "perfect solution" shows up. It will 
eventually show up. Fortunately for us, there are people that strive to 
find better solutions for working systems.

The best is, as far as I know, a SCS pactor controller. But slow packet 
or PAX could be workable solutions for HF.

Would other modes capable of passing a full ASCII alp

RE: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a messaging

[John Bradley]

You are right in that the likely solution would be SCS and Pactor3.

 

The only other thing that we have tried is RFSM8000, developed by Dimitri ,
which has a email gateway built into it, is ARQ and runs on soundcard

 

Nobody in the US is using this on the ham bands at least since it does not
conform to FCC rules as far as speed etc. I don't know if he is still
actively developing the software but what we had worked well but required a
pretty strong signal to work, since the bandwidth is about 3Khz I am sending
a copy of this to Dimitri  to see if he is around still. 

 

I make no apologies for dissing 1 line messages... sure I use SMS myself
regularly for quick questions among family members and friends, but to
pretend that this is a meaningful solution for emergency comms is just plain
crazy. It's fun to use but not much beyond that. If I were sending this
message from an area in Canada out of range of any internet access short of
Sat phone, I couldn't get past the first line.

 

I don't know about the USA, but a number of emergency agencies in other
countries are revisiting HF backup systems for point to point data, since
recent infrastructure failures have proven that our everyday systems are
very vulnerable.  Those involved with health and bioterrorism are
particularly interested.. a number of health agencies and Canada's version
of the Center for Disease Control have HF abilities already.  In fact CDC in
Atlanta has HF 

ALE has a place in all this to establish links and determine the most
useable frequencies, But software like 141A or ALE400 are far more useful
for passing data than the one-liners in PCALE. Now if it had a better
interface to the internet other than a "copy and paste" routine, so much the
better.

 

I get very frustrated with those who still regard ARES contribution to
emergency comms as tactical voice on VHF or HF. We have that role.am
currently writing an exercise which would use hams as back-up in ambulances
and EMS dispatch over a wide area of rural hospitals and small town EMS
units. I also am frustrated since slowly but surely we are being forced into
Pactor 3 as the only viable and expensive option for what we need .

 

John

VE5MU

 

 

 

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Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a messaging

[Alan Barrow]

Jose A. Amador wrote:
> Based on what I know, for SMTP, JNOS may be an option at less than 300 
> baud, i.e., 100-110 baud or PAX, using MultiPSK as "soundcard modem".
>
> I have not tested any of it yet. I have had no time and possibilities to 
> test it so far.
>
> JNOS can use FBB compression or LZW compressed SMTP on any of its radio 
> ports using KISS protocol to connect to a TNC.
>
> I ran both FBB and JNOS simultaneously for several years sharing the 
> same TNC under MSDOS and Linux, and HF mail using compressed FBB 
> protocol or LZW compressed SMTP worked, even when painfully slow, at 300 
> baud on a shared forwarding frequency. Even FTP worked (I do not 
> remember if it could be compressed as well) on HF.
>
> It is not theoretical. JNOS networking works on HF with the known 300 
> baud weaknesses. How well does it work really matters when nothing else 
> is available? Certainly, that may be an option in an unconnected scenario.
>   
Yes, I understand "it works". FBB works OK on HF because once you are
logged in, it's not that interactive. But you still have 2-3 turnarounds
before you send the initial message, etc.

Buried inside the P3 WL2K pactor transfers is a basic F6FBB chat &
login. Typically 5-10 seconds to link, get logged in, and sync prior to
really transferring the messages.  Again, it works, lot's of messaging
sent this way. But a bit wasteful. Why are you logging in when the
system already knows who is sending it via your callsign? And you just
sent the password in the clear on hf, so why bother? Login's are
wasteful on HF. Lot's of analysis & discussion in this area as well.
Real answer is a public/private key system. Anything else is wasted time
& bandwidth. Adds no security, and reduces reliability.

SMTP over HF is much less efficient & reliable because it has many, many
turnarounds. It's designed for a lan with infinite signal to noise
ratio. :-) short packets, many turnarounds. With more overhead in the
TCP/IP header than in the data sent.

So in the commercial & military systems, you see TCP/IP spoofing. Eat,
then recreate the IP headers on the opposite end. Same for SMTP. (just
like the trailblazer modems did with UUCP in the old unix days)

So how do you deal with this using the tools you have? With BBSLink we
use an FBB command structure, but compress the initiation of sending the
message into a single file transfer. IE: the command, user ID, etc is
prepended to the message and processed by bbslink. So no login chat over
the air, retries, etc.

With HF, you only get so many seconds of decent S/N at times. You don't
want to waste half of your window getting logged in using a system
oriented for interactive users.

If the message is short enough, it's a single send, then ack back from
the receiving system. Longer messages do have an ack before the next
frame is sent, etc. DBM is not perfect, but works, and is a true WW
standard. (for as much as that means... F6FBB is also a defacto standard
but there are very many implementation differences in login specifics,
etc when talking to them programatically.) We'd like to see other
protocols like FAE, etc leveragable as well.

So could you make JNOS/MSYS work over HF with a kiss modem? Most likely.
Is that the best way? I think we can do better if we apply ourselves &
work together. JNOS is certainly a useful tool in the mix. I know of
unix systems still using JNOS as transport. :-) If we scratched deep
enough we'd find some in use on corporate routers.

Have fun!

Alan
km4ba

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a messaging

[Alan Barrow]

John Bradley wrote:
> "ARES has responded with a command unit which has HF data capability. This
> could include a WIFI router so that laptops could be included from the local
> EOC. This command unit would work back into an EOC with data and internet
> connections. ARES would be tasked with passing text messages, destined both
> for the EOC and to other outside agencies and base hospitals. WL2K is an
> option , other SMTP sound card modes. at higher speeds would also work,
> such as RFSM8000.
>
> What would be our non VHF options? "
>   
Several answers:

1) It's going to sound like Heresy, but paclink, airmail, and WL2K is
specifically designed for your scenario, works now, and with an SCS P3
modem (expensive & proprietary as it is) is very hard to beat.
Essentially an off the shelf solution.

Laptops, wireless, auto gateway to HF, and to the target recipient over
the HF Horizon.

But there are many who cannot or don't want to play SCS P3 modem. Which
leads to:

2) Your command unit HF control operator (you have one, don't you) takes
the traffic aggregated by the jnos or linux box, and initiates into the 
HFLink system using ALE. Can send direct to an SMTP address, or into the
WL2K system.

Yep, it's a manual cut & paste right now into pc-ale on the sending end,
but it works. And there are some who say all traffic should be hand
entered. (I'm not one of them). PC-ALE has hooks for drop box type
operation, and we have had plans for similar in marsale.

I'm sure this won't satisfy you, but having an HF drop box (in any)
program does not address the local (command unit) end of the handoff.
HFLink.net already delivers message traffic via HF from multiple HW
radios + the ALE variants. Not perfect, I have a nasty bug to chase down
which impacts some multi-line DBM messages, but we are headed there.

3) So you want to bridge two sites not using the internet? Same deal.
There is no restriction that bbslink has to run on the Internet. You can
run it on the local lan in your two command vans. SMTP is SMTP. Your
JNOS instance coresident with bbslink does the handoff/gateway to your
laptops.


4) You dis single line messages quite frequently, but there is lot's of
traffic flying around on APRS. Same concept with ALE AMD's, and we look
to allow interoperation between the two.  AMD's get through when other
stuff does not. Nope, it won't be the proverbial "my served agency wants
to send a 600k powerpoint, nothing else is acceptable" solution, but
about a zillion 170 character SMS messages are sent in the cellular
system each month. Yep, 90% are kids, but it's a useful medium even with
restrictions.


Nothing in your scenario justifies creating (yet another) ham focused
messaging layer. Between existing JNOS/FBB/WL2K systems plus native SMTP
handoff, ALE/BBSLink can pass traffic in pretty much any scenario.
Again, PC-ALE has rudimentary  message box buried in it, but we've
focused our efforts in other directions.

Taking ownership of a message for future delivery is a serious
commitment. Tools like JNOS, and linux postfix type systems are far
better at implementing  the rules, retries, etc. HF should just be
transport.

What I have spent some design time on is how you could have marsale be
an outbound transport to a sendmail/postfix system. (And possibly JNOS)
But it would still be transport only, a plugin used instead of SMTP
based on rules in the mail system config. It succeeds, or fails. No
in-between. No store & forward on the ALE/bbslink side.

JNOS is an old friend. I was compiling, tweaking, and using Phil Karn's
KA9Q, and then later,  NOS back in the early 80's, and used it as a 56k
packet gateway from my pc & workstation lan starting in '85. There might
even be some of my code/comments buried in there, I'd have to look. It's
the swiss army knife of amateur messaging.

If I were to try to implement an auto forward outbound gateway into the
ALE BBSLink system I'd probably leverage JNOS to aggregate & hand off.

But I have been down the path of trying to make transparent TNC
replacement plug-in using KISS. Lot's of session/link decisions would
have to be made, each with tradeoffs. It's not just connect the dots.
Not impossible, just analysis & design.

If winmor goes into production that may be another alternative. But you
still have to do the session stuff. KISS just sends bytes, initiates
connects, and detects connections. So whether f6fbb, winlink, or
whatever, that has to be addressed.

Have fun,

Alan
km4ba

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a messaging

[Jose A. Amador]

Based on what I know, for SMTP, JNOS may be an option at less than 300 
baud, i.e., 100-110 baud or PAX, using MultiPSK as "soundcard modem".

I have not tested any of it yet. I have had no time and possibilities to 
test it so far.

JNOS can use FBB compression or LZW compressed SMTP on any of its radio 
ports using KISS protocol to connect to a TNC.

I ran both FBB and JNOS simultaneously for several years sharing the 
same TNC under MSDOS and Linux, and HF mail using compressed FBB 
protocol or LZW compressed SMTP worked, even when painfully slow, at 300 
baud on a shared forwarding frequency. Even FTP worked (I do not 
remember if it could be compressed as well) on HF.

It is not theoretical. JNOS networking works on HF with the known 300 
baud weaknesses. How well does it work really matters when nothing else 
is available? Certainly, that may be an option in an unconnected scenario.

I have also read some papers (which are not recent ones) mentioning the 
possibility of using JNOS for armed forces communications.

I believe it should be tried out. Configuring JNOS is not easy, it is 
command line oriented and learning its options is a steep process not 
suited for the faint of heart, because along its history, it has been 
developed and maintained by people familiar with Unix, networking and 
text mode consoles in a spartan command line environment.

Working options may be saved in a configuration file that it reads at 
the start up.

One almost miraculous option it has is the maxwait parameter. It limits 
the usual TCPIP exponential backoff to a value of your choice (not 
arbitrary, it basically depends on the signalling speed and channel 
reliability or congestion), indispensable when running TCPIP on a radio 
link and not on a high speed, less noisy, wired environment.

Other TCPIP implementations fail without this "kludge", particularly, on 
HF radio. Even Linux with its native TCPIP stack is subject to fail as 
well. JNOS packet stack is better crafted than the Linux AX.25 support.

Alan is right, maybe a kludge between an AX.25 stack and other modes 
could be devised, but it is not simple.

If other sound card modes work at the same speed, why wouldn't PAX or 
slow packet work? APRS has been tested so far with slower than 300 baud 
speeds and has worked, even with the nowadays prevalent bad HF propagation.

Frugality in message content is *INDISPENSABLE*. Compression is your 
friend. In a bandwidth limited radio channel, concise, short, text 
messages are preferable to more voluminous file formats (.doc, .xls, 
.bmp, etc). If that is not acceptable, then, who needs that should 
procure a wideband VSAT link.

73,

Jose, CO2JA

---

John Bradley wrote:

> What would be our non VHF options? 
> 
> John
> VE5MU

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[digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a messaging

[John Bradley]

" For several reasons we did not emulate the full forwarding syntax of the
BBS world, as it really starts to increase the scope as you get into "store
& forward".  Once you accept a message, you own it, including communicating
failure back to the initiating session. Big responsibility. So by design
bbslink is stateless. The message handoff either succeeds immediately, or it
fails. And the initiating station knows either way. It's the only safe way,
as there is no guarantee that you will ever be able to reach the sending
station again if the message fails, etc.

We also chose not to duplicate existing messaging infrastructure.
Instead, we decided to focus on leveraging the 3 most common messaging
gateways encountered in the ham world. (SMTP, WL2K, F6FBB/W0RLI) Doing so
bridges networks, rather than fragmenting the amateur community further.
Common message systems are a big win, separate ones slowly die.
(Genie, AOL, Compuserve, Prodigy, teletext, etc)"

I am not technically gifted in any way, shape or form. I am heavily involved
in the art of emergency planning and communications plans. 

Let me paint a little scenario for you:

A small community (<3000) 100 miles from the nearest major center has been
sideswiped by a twister, and has lost communications with the rest of the
world VHF down, cell towers down and telephone exchange damaged. Fire
EMS and Police have responded, using tactical voice comms systems still
working , or supported by ARES on a wide area 2M repeater
The local hospital, which also house the community ECC (Emergency
Co-ordination Center) has numerous casualties. all responding agencies
require additional materials, and as recovery phase starts, Salvation Army
and Red Cross need to pass health and welfare traffic. 

Tactical voice comms are at 100% capacity by the responding agencies, and
will be close to 100% over the next few operational periods. Other working
systems in the area (ie utilities)are also running close to 100%.

ARES has responded with a command unit which has HF data capability. This
could include a WIFI router so that laptops could be included from the local
EOC. This command unit would work back into an EOC with data and internet
connections. ARES would be tasked with passing text messages, destined both
for the EOC and to other outside agencies and base hospitals. WL2K is an
option , other SMTP sound card modes. at higher speeds would also work,
such as RFSM8000.

What would be our non VHF options? 

John
VE5MU

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a

[Alan Barrow]

Jose A. Amador wrote:
> I almost always used JNOS with KISS interfaces, it is a natural way of 
> using it. TNC's under MSDOS, and also thru pipes under Linux with 
> net2kiss (I would have to go back to the manual to remember a few 
> details). It could be interfaced with the BPQ switch, so FBB, JNOS, the 
> BPQ switch could share the same KISS TNC.
>   

Lot's of discussion, planning, and work has gone on in this area in the
ALE space.

The short version is with AX.25 packet, the session & link layers are
already taken care of. KISS is just a way to communicate with the TNC
and assumes the existence of AX.25 type link layers.

With other HF protocols those layers sometimes have equivalents, but not
defined as such and never in a form that can be directly leveraged in JNOS.

Even devices like the SCS P3 modems have had to bridge this gap with
supplementary commands, etc.

So you can't just implement a KISS interface and magically have a new
mode working with JNOS.

I still think KISS is the right approach for portability, but there is
lot's of design work needed to add the additional layers.

Same for "we'll just use TCP/IP" way too much overhead in the
protocol, and it does not respond well to HF reality. Timing and retries
just will not work on HF. lot's of mil/gov research in this area. SMTP
is very "chatty", with almost a dozen back & forth exchanges to send a
message. There are some HF tuned SMTP equivalents, but they really do
not add any value over some of the approaches currently in use in the
ham world. Which brings us to..

Regarding FBB interface, Patrick is right, it's the defacto standard,
well understood, and even implemented inside the WL2K systems. It's also
the model we used for BBSLink & ALE.

The challenge on HF is that interactive bbs type chat's are extremely
inefficient, especially with low bandwidth protocols. To the point that
many HF BBS's now discourage interactive sessions.

So for BBSLink we went with a very compressed approach. Same general
command set as FBB, but in a form that you can initiate a message with
subject line in a single line of text, followed by the body of the
message in subsequent lines if it's a multi-line message. BBSLink then
translates to the session "chat" needed with the gateway system, be it
FBB, MSYS, WL2k, or SMTP.

This allows us to interface with pretty much any of the major bbs/email
gateways. Right now most of the work is with WL2K & SMTP message
domains, but there is no reason the SMTP host could not be a NOS session
coresident on the same box. Or an MSYS style FBB box.

If you examine bbslink commands, you'll see the exact FBB commands: SP
(send private), RM, LM, etc

For several reasons we did not emulate the full forwarding syntax of the
BBS world, as it really starts to increase the scope as you get into
"store & forward".  Once you accept a message, you own it, including
communicating failure back to the initiating session. Big
responsibility. So by design bbslink is stateless. The message handoff
either succeeds immediately, or it fails. And the initiating station
knows either way. It's the only safe way, as there is no guarantee that
you will ever be able to reach the sending station again if the message
fails, etc.

We also chose not to duplicate existing messaging infrastructure.
Instead, we decided to focus on leveraging the 3 most common messaging
gateways encountered in the ham world. (SMTP, WL2K, F6FBB/W0RLI) Doing
so bridges networks, rather than fragmenting the amateur community
further. Common message systems are a big win, separate ones slowly die.
(Genie, AOL, Compuserve, Prodigy, teletext, etc)

So if you want compatibility with NOS/MSYS, etc, that is already working
in the ALE world. You don't need KISS, it's done at the session layer
using TCP/IP and direct socket based transfers.

SMTP is the most prevalent, whether the "big I" Internet or entered into
a ham/mars packet system via NOS SMTP gateway. Or even MSYS. You could
argue that SMTP is the defacto standard in messaging gateways as pretty
much all systems support it in some form.

I still owe Patrick documentation on how to interact with bbslink (or
emulate entirely) which should help bridge the networks further. The
external bbslink interface is documented. I just need to write up the
internal interface so multi-psk can be used as transport as well.

All of this is good dialog, and worth exploring. It's just sometimes
harder to make play than just picking protocols.

Have fun,

Alan
km4ba



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Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a

[Rick W]

When I used to be on another digital group (I think it may have been one 
of the TAPR lists?), Maiko was able to get certain hardware/firmware to 
work with his development of JNOS2.

Although JNOS is very theoretical to me, I wonder if it could it be set 
up with the mode of your choice (within limits) that will work well with 
sound cards?

Considering the tremendous effort that has gone into some of these 
technologies, and the little use they seem to have gotten, it suggests 
to me that they do not meet the needs of a target user. Developing for 
proprietary hardware/firmware does not seem like the direction to take, 
but developing for sound card applications does seem like the most 
practical way to create something that may reach critical mass with 
enough users.

I have believed for some time that we need a framework that would allow 
"bolting on" of different sound card modes for low cost and accurate 
data transfer between stations and even into the internet on an ad hoc 
basis so that you can set it up whenever you have the need and wherever 
an internet connection might be available for public service/emergency 
traffic.

By itself, the old MIL-STD-188-141A protocol is a fairly old technology 
(1970's), and would not normally be something that we would 
intentionally use anymore. The FAE modified form has proven itself to me 
and several of us who have been experimenting with it, since it is more 
robust and yet reasonably fast with the slower baud rate and narrower 
bandwidth of FAE400.

Are any developers looking at the Winmor specifications and its approach 
to not only error free data transfer, but having adaptive modes that can 
work under varying conditions?

73,

Rick, KV9U


Jose A. Amador wrote:
> I almost always used JNOS with KISS interfaces, it is a natural way of 
> using it. TNC's under MSDOS, and also thru pipes under Linux with 
> net2kiss (I would have to go back to the manual to remember a few 
> details). It could be interfaced with the BPQ switch, so FBB, JNOS, the 
> BPQ switch could share the same KISS TNC.
>
> I was not succesful to interface JNOS to MultiPSK using TCPIP, and have 
> not tried yet using the KISS interface, but I see that others have had 
> quite a bit of success with it.
>
> Could that be extended to ALE? Right now I don't really know, but looks 
> interesting to find out.
>
> I am not up to date with all that Maiko has added to JNOS 2.0
>
> 73,
>
> Jose, CO2JA
>
> ---
>
> John Bradley wrote:
>   
>> So how would we go about using FBB or JNOS? JNOS has appeal since it can
>> gateway to the internet, a desirable feature
>> for emergency comms
>>
>> John
>> VE5MU
>>
>>
>> I believe that the simplest is not reinventing the wheel, and using MultiPSK
>> as a modem, using traditional BBS programs as the mail application.
>> Does anyone find this to be wrong?
>>
>> The store and forward part could mean a *LOT* of work to be done, or
>> actually, re-done...
>>
>> For traditional ham mail, I find FBB is very good. And for e-mail, JNOS.
>>
>> Would it be possible to extend the KISS mode interface to other modes and
>> not only packet? I don't know right now, but sounds tempting.
>>
>> I feel that a lot of the old packet legacy programs have a lot to offer if
>> the classic TNC is replaced for a better modem.
>>
>> Maybe it would be interesting to identify other interfacing software, i.e.,
>> KISS-WA8DED, 6PACK-KISS, etc
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Jose, CO2JA
>> 

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a

[Jose A. Amador]

I almost always used JNOS with KISS interfaces, it is a natural way of 
using it. TNC's under MSDOS, and also thru pipes under Linux with 
net2kiss (I would have to go back to the manual to remember a few 
details). It could be interfaced with the BPQ switch, so FBB, JNOS, the 
BPQ switch could share the same KISS TNC.

I was not succesful to interface JNOS to MultiPSK using TCPIP, and have 
not tried yet using the KISS interface, but I see that others have had 
quite a bit of success with it.

Could that be extended to ALE? Right now I don't really know, but looks 
interesting to find out.

I am not up to date with all that Maiko has added to JNOS 2.0

73,

Jose, CO2JA

---

John Bradley wrote:
> So how would we go about using FBB or JNOS? JNOS has appeal since it can
> gateway to the internet, a desirable feature
> for emergency comms
> 
> John
> VE5MU
> 
> 
> I believe that the simplest is not reinventing the wheel, and using MultiPSK
> as a modem, using traditional BBS programs as the mail application.
> Does anyone find this to be wrong?
> 
> The store and forward part could mean a *LOT* of work to be done, or
> actually, re-done...
> 
> For traditional ham mail, I find FBB is very good. And for e-mail, JNOS.
> 
> Would it be possible to extend the KISS mode interface to other modes and
> not only packet? I don't know right now, but sounds tempting.
> 
> I feel that a lot of the old packet legacy programs have a lot to offer if
> the classic TNC is replaced for a better modem.
> 
> Maybe it would be interesting to identify other interfacing software, i.e.,
> KISS-WA8DED, 6PACK-KISS, etc
> 
> 73,
> 
> Jose, CO2JA
> 
> ---
> 
> John Bradley escribió:
>> Maybe we can convince Patrick to look at possible “store and forward” 
>> functions as well
>>
>> John
>>
>> VE5MU
>>


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[digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a

[Patrick Lindecker]

Hello to all,

> has compression which can greatly increase speed
The compressed alphabet derives from the "IZ8BLY MFSK Varicode". The main 
modifications are a priority given to accented small characters (much used 
in French, Spanish...).
The gain is about 50 % in English.

- first sound card ARQ mode with the full ASCII character set:
So as to be able to transmit accented characters and also non-latin 
characters (Cyrillic ones for example),

- first sound card mode employing memory ARQ
It's really indispensable for an ARQ protocol because it permits to 
drastically decrease the number of retries (each new frame retry is 
equivalent to an increase of 3 dB on the minimum S/N with a limit which is 
the impossibility to detect the header).

> Maybe we can convince Patrick to look at possible "store and forward" 
> functions as well
I have added to my wishes list the possibility to add an ARQ FAE repeater. I 
will see if it is possible (I'm not sure as it is quite complex).

>Would it be possible to extend the KISS mode interface to other modes
>and not only packet? I don't know right now, but sounds tempting.
Seems also difficult (due to the translation of protocols), but another 
solution would be to use the TCP/IP link (RX/TX) and add a new protocol 
layer (not simple either). I could extend the functions from the TCP/IP 
control.

73
Patrick


- Original Message - 
From: "Rick W" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a


> Hi John,
>
> At the time I was listening to the frequency there were RTTY stations on
> either side and very close, so did not attempt a connection.
>
> Were you using ALE400 or FAE400? My understanding is that FAE is faster
> than the ALE with plain text due to compression which I don't think is
> available in ALE400. I have never quite understood the purpose of the
> ALE modes unless perhaps it was used for a group (non ARQ) transmission.
> But in such a case wouldn't you want to use a better mode than ALE which
> is an older technology from the 1970's and developed before the advent
> of sound card modes and computer access.
>
> When I have tried the wide 141A (ALE/FAE 2000) modes, they have not been
> as practical to use for the conditions you normally find on the lower
> bands. FAE2000 might work reasonably well on higher bands with low
> ISI/Doppler. The speed is several times faster, but the bandwidth is
> about 5 times wider and less robust.
>
> The reasons that I am so impressed with FAE400:
>
> - relatively narrow (keeping under 500 Hz) to meet the IARU band plan
> bandwidths designated for the RTTY/Data portion of 80 meters
>
> - has compression which can greatly increase speed
>
> - first sound card ARQ mode with the full ASCII character set
>
> - first sound card mode employing memory ARQ
>
> The only other mode that may have some of these characteristics is
> Winmor, but that has not been released yet.
>
> What has been surprising to me is that few hams have any interest in
> using these connected modes, especially for public service/emergency use.
>
> 73,
>
> Rick, KV9U
>
>
>
> John Bradley wrote:
>>
>> After an evening of limited testing, VE6OG and I found ALE400 much
>> better on a file transfer tonight, given the band conditions and
>>
>> QRM.
>>
>>
>>
>> Both stations remain on for the rest of the night and early morning .
>>
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>> VE5MU
>>
>>
>
>
> 
>
> Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at
> http://www.obriensweb.com/sked
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> 

RE: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a

[John Bradley]

So how would we go about using FBB or JNOS? JNOS has appeal since it can
gateway to the internet, a desirable feature
for emergency comms

John
VE5MU


I believe that the simplest is not reinventing the wheel, and using MultiPSK
as a modem, using traditional BBS programs as the mail application.
Does anyone find this to be wrong?

The store and forward part could mean a *LOT* of work to be done, or
actually, re-done...

For traditional ham mail, I find FBB is very good. And for e-mail, JNOS.

Would it be possible to extend the KISS mode interface to other modes and
not only packet? I don't know right now, but sounds tempting.

I feel that a lot of the old packet legacy programs have a lot to offer if
the classic TNC is replaced for a better modem.

Maybe it would be interesting to identify other interfacing software, i.e.,
KISS-WA8DED, 6PACK-KISS, etc

73,

Jose, CO2JA

---

John Bradley escribió:
>
> Maybe we can convince Patrick to look at possible “store and forward” 
> functions as well
>
> John
>
> VE5MU
>


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Educación Energética
9 - 12 de Junio 2009, Palacio de las Convenciones ...Por una cultura
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Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a

[José A. Amador]

I believe that the simplest is not reinventing the wheel, and using 
MultiPSK as a modem, using traditional BBS programs as the mail 
application.
Does anyone find this to be wrong?

The store and forward part could mean a *LOT* of work to be done, or 
actually, re-done...

For traditional ham mail, I find FBB is very good. And for e-mail, JNOS.

Would it be possible to extend the KISS mode interface to other modes 
and not only packet? I don't know right now, but sounds tempting.

I feel that a lot of the old packet legacy programs have a lot to offer 
if the classic TNC is replaced for a better modem.

Maybe it would be interesting to identify other interfacing software, 
i.e., KISS-WA8DED, 6PACK-KISS, etc

73,

Jose, CO2JA

---

John Bradley escribió:
>
> Maybe we can convince Patrick to look at possible “store and forward” 
> functions as well
>
> John
>
> VE5MU
>


VI Conferencia Internacional de Energía Renovable, Ahorro de Energía y 
Educación Energética
9 - 12 de Junio 2009, Palacio de las Convenciones
...Por una cultura energética sustentable
www.ciercuba.com 



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RE: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a

[John Bradley]

 

technically we were using FAE400 mode and FAE2000 modes, in ARQ as opposed
to general broadcast (unproto) mode.

 

I agree with you on the 400ARQ mode, and the feature I appreciate most is
the ability to send mail to an unattended station, having determined that
the unattended station can hear you, using QRZ,HFN or a user defined net
call. This is about the only time that the ALE function is useful is doing
what it was meant to do: establish a link.  More than a few hams have taken
the approach that ALE is a legitimate mode for passing traffic. Unless
traffic is limited to a one line message, there doesn't seem to be much
point.

 

What I would like to propose is that we pick an 80M frequency (not 3596,
since it seems to be the main frequency for RTTY broadcasts and activity)
and try

to pass a few messages around the country, using 400. Maybe we can convince
Patrick to look at possible "store and forward" functions as well

 

John

VE5MU

Hi John,

At the time I was listening to the frequency there were RTTY stations on 
either side and very close, so did not attempt a connection.

Were you using ALE400 or FAE400? My understanding is that FAE is faster 
than the ALE with plain text due to compression which I don't think is 
available in ALE400. I have never quite understood the purpose of the 
ALE modes unless perhaps it was used for a group (non ARQ) transmission. 
But in such a case wouldn't you want to use a better mode than ALE which 
is an older technology from the 1970's and developed before the advent 
of sound card modes and computer access.

When I have tried the wide 141A (ALE/FAE 2000) modes, they have not been 
as practical to use for the conditions you normally find on the lower 
bands. FAE2000 might work reasonably well on higher bands with low 
ISI/Doppler. The speed is several times faster, but the bandwidth is 
about 5 times wider and less robust.

The reasons that I am so impressed with FAE400:

- relatively narrow (keeping under 500 Hz) to meet the IARU band plan 
bandwidths designated for the RTTY/Data portion of 80 meters

- has compression which can greatly increase speed

- first sound card ARQ mode with the full ASCII character set

- first sound card mode employing memory ARQ

The only other mode that may have some of these characteristics is 
Winmor, but that has not been released yet.

What has been surprising to me is that few hams have any interest in 
using these connected modes, especially for public service/emergency use.

73,

Rick, KV9U

John Bradley wrote:
>
> After an evening of limited testing, VE6OG and I found ALE400 much 
> better on a file transfer tonight, given the band conditions and
>
> QRM.
>
> 
>
> Both stations remain on for the rest of the night and early morning .
>
> 
>
> John
>
> VE5MU
>
> 

 

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a

[Rick W]

Hi John,

At the time I was listening to the frequency there were RTTY stations on 
either side and very close, so did not attempt a connection.

Were you using ALE400 or FAE400? My understanding is that FAE is faster 
than the ALE with plain text due to compression which I don't think is 
available in ALE400. I have never quite understood the purpose of the 
ALE modes unless perhaps it was used for a group (non ARQ) transmission. 
But in such a case wouldn't you want to use a better mode than ALE which 
is an older technology from the 1970's and developed before the advent 
of sound card modes and computer access.

When I have tried the wide 141A (ALE/FAE 2000) modes, they have not been 
as practical to use for the conditions you normally find on the lower 
bands. FAE2000 might work reasonably well on higher bands with low 
ISI/Doppler. The speed is several times faster, but the bandwidth is 
about 5 times wider and less robust.

The reasons that I am so impressed with FAE400:

- relatively narrow (keeping under 500 Hz) to meet the IARU band plan 
bandwidths designated for the RTTY/Data portion of 80 meters

- has compression which can greatly increase speed

- first sound card ARQ mode with the full ASCII character set

- first sound card mode employing memory ARQ

The only other mode that may have some of these characteristics is 
Winmor, but that has not been released yet.

What has been surprising to me is that few hams have any interest in 
using these connected modes, especially for public service/emergency use.

73,

Rick, KV9U



John Bradley wrote:
>
> After an evening of limited testing, VE6OG and I found ALE400 much 
> better on a file transfer tonight, given the band conditions and
>
> QRM.
>
>  
>
> Both stations remain on for the rest of the night and early morning .
>
>  
>
> John
>
> VE5MU
>
> 

[digitalradio] ALE400 and 141a

[John Bradley]

After an evening of limited testing, VE6OG and I found ALE400 much better on
a file transfer tonight, given the band conditions and

QRM.

 

Both stations remain on for the rest of the night and early morning .

 

John

VE5MU

[digitalradio] ALE400 and 141A

[John Bradley]

As of Z , VE5MU and VE5GPM are on 3596USB dial , MU running ALE400, GPM
running 141A. Stations will be operating until 0700 or later

 

Both have QRZ and HFN enabled, try a connect or sounding . Or try sending a
small text file (1K or so).

 

reception reports would be appreciated

 

John

VE5MU

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141A

[Alan Barrow]

John Bradley wrote:
>
>  
>
> · Have given up on the PCALE and HFlink bunch, since there
> seems to be no interest in doing anything other than sending 1 line
> messages to each other , or simply sounding. The MARS version of PCALE
> might work, but the author is not allowing use of this software
> outside of the MARS side… why is anyone’s guess. As far as I can see
> no progress has been made to get some sort of practical message
> handling system in place, using ALE to establish contacts.
>

Hello John,

I'm not sure I understand your comments about one line messaging, as
many of us have been using dbm & dtm multi-line messaging via pc-ale,
mars-ale, and of late multi-psk.

It's not perfect, but it works, is a true international & mil standard,
and is soundcard based. Right now I'm probably the biggest hold up to
more DBM based multi-lined messaging. It's not from lack of interest,
it's just time & tech issues. Even as is it works well for shorter
message, we have some bugs I need to chase & resolve for long (1k+
messages). Routes out to smtp or into the winlink system. Reads back
messages, you can delete messages, etc. Approaching packet BBS
functionality, which has been my model for basic functionality.

We are working on other messaging concepts which will increase the
functionality further.

Regarding mars-ale vs pc-ale, Steve N2CKH has been slowly converging the
two. First the modem core moved, then radio support libraries, and
lately the capability to communicate with other programs via telnet has
as well.

Right now, the current pc-ale beta has the majority of US ham legal
content of marsale.

Between pc-ale & multi-psk there are some very good tools available.

>  
>
> · From our point of view have thrown in the towel and will
> likely go with SCS Modems using Pactor 3 for some of the longer haul
> stuff we do, and our served agencies seem ready to purchase the
> necessary gear. Still interested in a sound card messaging mode which
> could link to the internet when required.
>
>  
>
P3 has it's uses and can be effective if you can obtain the modems. But
tech like P3 would be far more powerful if leveraged with an ALE
approach to find the highest S/N path and leverage the bands more
effectively. Or connect to a specific station on demand.
>
> · Am going to send Patrick a separate email about doing a
> striped down version of multipsk for emergency comms, something that
> would do PSK,MFSK,Olivia and the ALE modes, and nothing else…….AND
> with a message gateway……… that’s all I want for next Christmas , hee hee.
>
This would be a neat thing. Ever give any thought to working on
something like this? Several of us have, would be great to have some
other folks coding. I know Patrick has exposed an "API" to multi-psk.

Have fun,

Alan
km4ba

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and 141A

[Rick W]

I tried to connect again today (this afternoon) as I saw your request 
for connecting via FAE400 on 14.111 and 7.103. I tried both stations 
callsigns as it almost seemed as if the frequencies were reversed from 
the other day with the regular MIL-STD-188-141A mode, but maybe I 
misread that, HI. I was sure that I would be able to connect today, but 
maybe I am not understanding the times you are going off air? I even 
tried using increased power with my amplifier to 100+ watts and still 
nothing. I also tried QRZ as well as the callsigns, but not sure if you 
would key into that.

Based on their odd behavior, PCALE and HFLink appear to have some very 
disturbed people. Not all, of course as some really went out of their 
way to help, but enough to lose credibility with most hams. I have 
received comments from others, surprisingly, even on the air contacts, 
where individuals expressed similar views, and I have been personally 
attacked as apparently not being pure enough in how I used their system. 
It is hard to understand, since I really tried hard to figure out how to 
make the system work as best as I could, even going so far as to have 
Patrick make some changes for me to try with Multipsk but we never could 
get it to work properly. I know they were most upset that I pointed out 
that contrary to their claims, I was one of the only hams world wide 
that actually tried using their system for practical messaging. And it 
was rather obvious after monitoring their web site which shows all world 
wide activity that was not happening. Their solution was to actually 
block my IP from accessing their site so I can no longer report on the 
minimal use. Needless to say, anyone who would do such a thing, is very 
dangerous in terms of providing serious, public service/emergency 
communications that you can count on. It might not be there, or could be 
blocked during an emergency. Either way, they have certainly damaged 
their cause beyond repair with many hams and it was completely 
unnecessary. My rule of thumb is to just be honest and don't try and 
make false claims because sooner or later it will catch up with you.

On a more positive note, it would be very interesting to see is a 
software like Sigmira that could not only decode MIL-STD-188-110A 
protocols, but could also transmit them. I have been able to decode some 
open ID's of stations from France that must be ildling and ready to 
transmit data. But as mentioned, we U.S. hams would have to use it on 
VHF and up. Most of these stations tend to use the 300 and 600 bps data 
rates, but the software supports all the way down to the 75 bps speed 
which is necessary to handle the severe conditions on HF.

In the meantime, I have great expectations for Winmor. And if the 
specifications are open, it is very possible that some of our amazing 
programmers could make a peer to peer version of Winmor. As I always 
say, it only takes one person who has the knowledge and interest to do 
it. This technology could be set up with a multiband/multimode rig with 
a sound card interface and be used from HF through UHF with minimal 
changes in operating technique. But if you need something today, then 
SCS is probably the best commercial route to take.

It was interesting to show my wife the choices we have available now for 
ARQ modes, but except for RFSM2400, the others were intimidating. This 
assumes that the user can work out the other 99 steps you need to take 
to get a rig interfaced to a computer with the software properly 
configured, etc., etc. I take it for granted (most of the time) but even 
I sometimes have something become non operational due to some glitch. In 
fact, just had an odd thing happen during the ARRL VHF Contest when I 
was trying out N1MM Logger. It appears to force a switch from mike input 
to auxiliary input (which I don't use) and you have to know to go back 
into the sound card software to switch it back when you want to use a 
digital sound card program. Maybe there is a fix for that?

It was surprising how many hams we had locally participate in the VHF 
contest. I have personally asked some of them, plus sent out some e-mail 
promoting what we can do with digital modes on HF and VHF and even on 
VHF FM and whether they would give some consideration to doing some 
public service stuff but the answer is either ... not interested, or too 
busy with other things to try something new like that. I don't see many 
of my ham students from my entry level (and even General) classes do 
much more than 2 meter FM and then move to HF SSB but not a lot more. 
But I keep trying to promote digital modes on HF and VHF and up.

Keep us posted on any more attempts to connect with you or GPM

73,

Rick, KV9U



John Bradley wrote:
>
> In answer to your questions…….
>
> · did not have any luck with a connect from anyone other than local 
> hams on both 141A and ALE400 , but the bands were in particularly bad 
> shape over the weekend . Am in the process 

[digitalradio] ALE400 and 141A

[John Bradley]

In answer to your questions...

 

. did not have any luck with a connect from anyone other than local
hams on both 141A and ALE400 , but the bands were in particularly bad shape
over the weekend . Am in the process of installing a 800watt solid state amp
at VE5GPM, so will try that later this week , probably running 300 W on both
ALE400 and 141A.. will let you know where/when. GPM is located at an EOC and
I have remote control abilities on that station.

Very interested in seeing how this works for text messaging up to 3K in
size.

 

. Have given up on the PCALE and HFlink bunch, since there seems to
be no interest in doing anything other than sending 1 line messages to each
other , or simply sounding. The MARS version of PCALE might work, but the
author is not allowing use of this software outside of the MARS side. why is
anyone's guess. As far as I can see no progress has been made to get some
sort of practical message handling system in place, using ALE to establish
contacts.

 

. Have not talked to Dmitri for some time so have no idea where he
is at with RFSM8000 . It is a great piece of software, requires fairly
strong signal to operate at any speed. Still play with it from time to time.

 

. From our point of view have thrown in the towel and will likely go
with SCS Modems using Pactor 3 for some of the longer haul stuff we do, and
our served agencies seem ready to purchase the necessary gear. Still
interested in a sound card messaging mode which could link to the internet
when required.

 

. Am going to send Patrick a separate email about doing a striped
down version of multipsk for emergency comms, something that would do
PSK,MFSK,Olivia and the ALE modes, and nothing else...AND with a message
gateway... that's all I want for next Christmas , hee hee.

 

. Am anxious to get a few folks experimenting with modes suitable
for emergency comms, up and using them somewhere

 

 

John

VE5MU

 

 

 

 

Hi John,

Did you have any luck with either station getting a connect? I tried 
both frequencies last night but no luck. The 141A mode is not very 
sensitive compared to the more modern modes developed in the past 
decade. Have you considered the FAE400 mode for this purpose? I am not 
sure if it has the capability to do what you want in terms of 
networking, but it works very much deeper into the noise. Can the FAE 
modes do what the 141A type of mode can do? I have only used FAE400 for 
ARQ chatting, which I really liked, but almost no one else did:(

I can hear some 141A transmissions on 14.109 this morning but not able 
to decode them. Tried calling QRZ but no luck either. Based on their 
signal strength, they would decode very well with most of the sound card 
modes.

Can you update us on how things are going with the RFSM8000 product? My 
wife and I have been testing digital modes, particularly the ARQ 
messaging modes, and if nothing else, the RFSM2400 software seems to be 
the easiest messaging software available. Even though we can not use 
this on MF/HF (except maybe for image, but who knows, as the FCC won't 
even respond to requests for clarification here in the U.S.), it is 
certainly legal to use on 6 meters and up and might be a workable 
solution for some public service oriented hams.

Isn't it ironic that after all these years we still do not have any HF 
sound card messaging system that can even approach what we had with 
packet BBS systems? There is at least one HF packet group in my state 
which appears to be a casual group with similar interests, however the 
baud rate makes it difficult to get messages through and when I have 
monitored, there are mostly retry after retry. If they went to say, the 
110 baud speed, it would work a lot better. But then again, the hardware 
probably makes that impossible.

73,

Rick, KV9U

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 Testing 3584kc USB

[Patrick Lindecker]

Hello to all,

To leave a mail to John, start the "Aux. fonctions" window and add "VE5MU" to 
your callsign list:
- Write "VE5MU" in the edit label where it is written "Call"
- click on the button"Add this call to the list"
- click on the button "Lits up-to-date"

Select VE5MU in the addressee list (combobox),
Write a message in the "ARQ FAE mail to send".
Click on the button "Send mail (+ file) and let the program send automatically 
the mail to John (abandon after one minute in case of poor propagation).

There is a Word document which goal is to show from Multipsk snapshots how to 
do the basic operations in ALE and ALE400. This document (1.1 Mo) is available 
from my site site "
http://f6cte.free.fr/ALE_and_ALE400_easy_with_Multipsk.doc"; (copy and paste 
this adress in Internet Explorer (or equivalent) Net adress field). 

73
Patrick

  - Original Message - 
  From: John Bradley 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 5:23 PM
  Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400 Testing 3584kc USB



  from 1600Z Friday to Z Sunday, VE5MU will be on 3584 USB running ALE 400. 
1500 hz center .QRZ and HFN enabled for soundings



  please connect using the Mail function, leave your name ,address and signal 
report, and I will forward you a genuine VE5MU QSL 

  card directly. These might be collector's items. someday



  john

  VE5MU








   

[digitalradio] ALE400 Testing 3584kc USB

[John Bradley]

from 1600Z Friday to Z Sunday, VE5MU will be on 3584 USB running ALE
400. 1500 hz center .QRZ and HFN enabled for soundings

 

please connect using the Mail function, leave your name ,address and signal
report, and I will forward you a genuine VE5MU QSL 

card directly. These might be collector's items. someday

 

john

VE5MU

 

 

 

[digitalradio] ALE400 frequencies

[John Bradley]

 

Expeditionradio said:

 

"This narrow auto sub-band is time-shared with 
many different automatic/semi-automatic 
nets and stations, including various packet 
and pactor modes. The segment is only 4kHz wide, 
so if one is using a standard 3kHz SSB filter, 
it almost covers the whole segment. It is 
important, as ALE400 operators, for us to 
co-operate with the other nets and modes we 
share this narrow segment of the band with. 
We will never achieve a "worldwide clear frequency" 
specific to ALE400 in this narrow sub-band, 
so we must accept some non-ALE400 interference, 
as the reality of operating in this part of 20 meters. 
If the frequency is already in use, this means 
that we sometimes may need to wait a few minutes 
to make an ALE400 call. "

 

The HF link folks are NOT an official body, rather a small group of ALE
enthusiasts who actively support PCALE software.

They do not support multipsk.

 

In my opinion PCALE is inferior to MultiPSK and is unable to do many of the
things that MPSK is capable of , including working down into the noise, and
the ease of an ARQ QSO , or passing files. 

 

The HFlink folks would relegate ALE400 to frequencies which would be
undesirable, with birdies, and packet interference. Why?  

 

It is up to ALE400 users to pick a frequency, more particularly, it is up to
US users to pick frequencies which conform to the US band plan , which the
rest of us don't understand. There is no reason why ALE400 could not share
14109.5 with regular ALE stations, of which there appears to be relatively
few active.  Maybe an adjacent frequency such as 14108.5 would be
satisfactory.

 

The point is as ALE400 users, we don't have to take Bonnie and the HFlink's
suggestions as gospel. We can, and should find our own way with a frequency
that is relatively clear and useable.

 

John

VE5MU

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 Beacon and testing

[Bob Ackman]

OK John, well as I said I dumped MultiPSK but may get it back as nothing but 
problems with MixW and it should serve as a good backup program anyway even if 
it does look like a dogs breakfast LOL.
Cheers

  - Original Message - 
  From: John Bradley 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:13 AM
  Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400 Beacon and testing



  VE5GPM beaconing on 14109.5 , 5 minute intervals until 20:00UTC , beam 
pointed south east



  VE5MU listening 14109.5, ready for connect until 20:00 utc



  John

  VE5MU


   

[digitalradio] ALE400 Beacon and testing

[John Bradley]

VE5GPM beaconing on 14109.5 , 5 minute intervals until 20:00UTC , beam
pointed south east

 

VE5MU listening 14109.5, ready for connect until 20:00 utc

 

John

VE5MU

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400 and FAE

[Rick]

Hi John,

I don't personally have any need for soundings as I mostly prefer to 
call CQ and see if I can communicate with someone. But as we increase 
the number of modes and sub modes, the chance of actually finding 
someone with the same protocol is greatly diminished, even if you have 
the same frequency.

I have asked a number of times, and still no one has really explained 
when to use ALE 400 and when to use FAE 400. Personally, I would rather 
only use FAE 400 because it is faster, works much deeper into the noise, 
and doesn't have some of the baggage of ALE such as the long transmit 
time in a call and what apparently must be another burst even after you 
have decided not to continue calling, perhaps some kind of disconnect 
(even if you are not connected?).

The FAE 400 mode just transmits short bursts that you can quickly 
discontinue if you find that you have transmitted on what you thought 
was a clear frequency.

If you make a call on ALE 400, whether individual or group, or some kind 
of CQ (but I am not sure about how you call CQ other than maybe a QRZ 
selection?), and the other person is monitoring FAE 400, my 
understanding is that they will not decode your transmissions. The same 
thing happens the other way too. If they are monitoring on ALE 400 mode 
and you send a CQ on FAE 400, there would not be a connection. Is this 
correct? And if so, shouldn't we standardize on one mode or the other?

Even standardizing on one calling mode, I suspect that it will be very, 
very rare to work another station on these modes. As we increase the 
number of modes, with about the same number of operators, there are 
fewer and fewer on a given mode at a given time (with the majority still 
staying on PSK31).

73,

Rick, KV9U



John Bradley wrote:
>
> Unlike the regular wide ALE mode, ALE400 has been mostly used for 
> QSO’s , and less for soundings. It is fairly robust and works well in 
> FAE down into the weeds quite nicely.
>
> I mostly use ALE400 FAE mode to call CQ, or specific stations that are 
> known to sit on frequency. When the connect is made then do a keyboard 
> to keyboard QSO.
>
> When I hear a station respond during a sounding (either hfn or qrz) , 
> I’ll try a connect, and , if the operator is absent usually 
> disconnect, compose mail and then reconnect and send a short note or a 
> small .doc file to his mailbox with a disconnect coming automatically 
> at the end of the data transfer.
>
> This is a very sociable mode, especially for rag-chewers like myself, 
> where the intent is to communicate, and sounding function is a useful 
> side benefit to see who is around and what the propagation is like.
>
> By the way, 30 M opened up around 2200Z on the 29^th , copying RTTY 
> stations form JA, South America, Europe, etc. I am becoming a believer 
> in this band hi hi
>
> Happy New Year to all from the great white north
>
> John
>
> VE5MU
>
> 
> 
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.12/1203 - Release Date: 12/30/2007 
> 11:27 AM
>   



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[digitalradio] ALE400 and FAE

[John Bradley]

Unlike the regular wide ALE mode, ALE400 has been mostly used for QSO's ,
and less for soundings. It is fairly robust and works well in FAE down into
the weeds quite nicely.

 

I mostly use ALE400 FAE mode to call CQ, or specific stations that are known
to sit on frequency.  When the connect is made then do a keyboard to
keyboard QSO.  

 

When I hear a station respond during a sounding (either hfn or qrz) , I'll
try a connect, and , if the operator is absent usually disconnect, compose
mail and then reconnect and send a short note or a  small .doc file to his
mailbox with a disconnect coming automatically at the end of the data
transfer. 

 

This is a very sociable mode, especially for rag-chewers like myself, where
the intent is to communicate, and sounding function is a useful side benefit
to see who is around and what the propagation is like.

 

By the way, 30 M opened up around 2200Z on the 29th, copying RTTY stations
form JA, South America, Europe, etc. I am becoming a believer in this band
hi hi

 

Happy New Year to all from the great white north

 

John

VE5MU

[digitalradio] ALE400/FAE400 modes

[Rick]

Is anyone using the HFLink ALE 400 frequencies?  I have not had any luck 
in contacting anyone on these frequencies using the narrow ALE and FAE 
modes.

Also, if you are using these modes, when do you find it best to use 
ALE400 vis a vis FAE400?

My personal preference is to call CQ with FAE400 since it sends out a 
series of calls every few seconds, rather than long transmission as you 
find in ALE modes. If it turns out that the frequency is in use, 
(digital modes don't tend to have a method to QRL), you can immediately 
stop transmissions.

Examples of frequencies I call on here in Region 2:

3589
7065
10136.5
10141.5 (this frequency seems to compete with Pactor in my area so maybe 
10136.5 is better?)
14094 (this frequency is very close to an FBB packet activity but may be 
far enough to be OK)

73,

Rick, KV9U

[digitalradio] ALE400 on 3.590 > QRT

[Steinar Aanesland]

>
> 73 de LA5VNA Steinar
>

[digitalradio] ALE400 on 3.590

[Steinar Aanesland]

Hi all

I am calling on 3.590 in ale400 now

73 de LA5VNA Steinar

[digitalradio] ALE400 on 14.074

[Steinar Aanesland]

Hi all

Calling on 14.074 in ale400

73 de LA5VNA Steinar

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Hisami Dejima]

Hi Patrick

Many thanks
Next week will become ALE400 week for me. 
This week is a meteor scatter week :-)

73, Hisami 7L4IOU



>Hello Hisami,
>
>>Can I find the MultiPSK ALE tutorial in the Internet?
>
>There is a Word document which goal is to show from Multipsk snapshots how to 
>do the basic operations in ALE and ALE400. This document (1.1 Mo) is 
>available from my site site "http://f6cte.free.fr/
>ALE_and_ALE400_easy_with_Multipsk.doc" (copy and paste this adress in 
>Internet Explorer (or equivalent) Net adress field). Look also at "http://
>hflink.com/ale400/" which is a specific page for ALE400, with a lot of 
>information.
>
>73
>
>Patrick
>
>
>
>  - Original Message - 
>  From: Hisami Dejima 
>  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
>  Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 6:38 AM
>  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400
>
>
>  Hi Patrik
>
>  I found ALE400 by RSID, but QSO was not completed. 
>  Can I find the MultiPSK ALE tutorial in the Internet?
>
>  73, Hisami 7L4IOU
>
>  >Hello John,
>  >
>  >>Where on the bands can this mode be found?
>  >For this first question look at the mail hereafter, sent in the Multipsk 
>  >group.
>  >
>  >>And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ?
>  >Pactor 1 and Amtor are FSK modes (two frequencies). ALE and ALE400 are 
>MFSK 
>  >modes (as MFSK16 for example). 
>  >So ALE400 sounds much more MFSK16, but more rapid. Just set the "RS ID 
>  >detection" ON, so as to detect and auto-tune automatically, on reception 
>of 
>  >an ALE400 transmission.
>  >
>  >73
>  >Patrick 
>  >
>  >
>  >Click on the button "QRGs" for all the frequencies.
>  >
>  >Here is for ALE400:
>  >ALE400 (USB)
>  >Here after is a non exhaustive list of the ALE400 frequencies: 
>  >
>  >1837.0, 3589.0, 7037.5, 10141.5, 14074.0, 14094.0, 18104.5, 21094.0, 24926.
>0, 
>  >28146.0, 50162.5, 144162.5 (AF at 1625 Hz).
>  >The complete list of frequencies is on "http://hflink.com/ale400";. 
>  >
>  >For digital spots and skeds, here are two good Internet addresses:
>  >
>  >The Sholto (KE7HPV) digital spotting page for 30m
>  >http://www.projectsandparts.com/30m/
>  >
>  >The Andy (K3UK) digitalradio Interactive Sked Page 
>  >For arranging QSOs and experimenting in all digital modes . 
>  >Digital Mode Calling Frequencies 18102 kHz USB 14077 kHz USB, 10139 kHz 
>USB, 
>  >7034 kHz USB International , 7065 kHz USB , 3577 kHz USB
>  >http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php
>  >
>  >
>  > - Original Message - 
>  > From: "John Becker, W0JAB" 
>  > To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
>  > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:34 PM
>  > Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400
>  >
>  >
>  > Where on the bands can this mode be found?
>  > And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ?
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > 
>  >
>  >---html-part included links---
>  >
>  >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  >mailto:digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
>  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/database
>  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join;_ylc=
>  >X3oDMTJmMGJvNHVwBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMT
>A4B
>  >HNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExOTc0OTU5Njg-
>  >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery: Digest
>  >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery 
>  >Format: Fully Featured
>  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio;_ylc=
>  >X3oDMTJkcWNvczl0BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMT
>A4B
>  >HNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTk3NDk1OTY4
>  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>  >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>   
>
>---html-part included links---
>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>mailto:digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
>http://www.projectsandparts.com/30m/
>http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php
>mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com
>mailto:w0jab%40big-river.net
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/database
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join;_ylc=
>mailto:digitalradio-digest%40yahoogroups.com
>mailto:digitalradio-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio;_ylc=
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>mailto:digitalradio-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join;_ylc=
>X3oDMTJmazAyYmIxBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMTA4B
>HNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExOTc1NzM0NzI-
>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery: Digest
>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery 
>Format: Fully Featured
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio;_ylc=
>X3oDMTJkcWFibGtvBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMTA4B
>HNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTk3NTczNDcy
>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Patrick Lindecker]

Hello Hisami,

>Can I find the MultiPSK ALE tutorial in the Internet?

There is a Word document which goal is to show from Multipsk snapshots how to 
do the basic operations in ALE and ALE400. This document (1.1 Mo) is available 
from my site site "http://f6cte.free.fr/ALE_and_ALE400_easy_with_Multipsk.doc"; 
(copy and paste this adress in Internet Explorer (or equivalent) Net adress 
field). Look also at "http://hflink.com/ale400/"; which is a specific page for 
ALE400, with a lot of information.

73

Patrick



  - Original Message - 
  From: Hisami Dejima 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 6:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] ALE400


  Hi Patrik

  I found ALE400 by RSID, but QSO was not completed. 
  Can I find the MultiPSK ALE tutorial in the Internet?

  73, Hisami 7L4IOU

  >Hello John,
  >
  >>Where on the bands can this mode be found?
  >For this first question look at the mail hereafter, sent in the Multipsk 
  >group.
  >
  >>And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ?
  >Pactor 1 and Amtor are FSK modes (two frequencies). ALE and ALE400 are MFSK 
  >modes (as MFSK16 for example). 
  >So ALE400 sounds much more MFSK16, but more rapid. Just set the "RS ID 
  >detection" ON, so as to detect and auto-tune automatically, on reception of 
  >an ALE400 transmission.
  >
  >73
  >Patrick 
  >
  >
  >Click on the button "QRGs" for all the frequencies.
  >
  >Here is for ALE400:
  >ALE400 (USB)
  >Here after is a non exhaustive list of the ALE400 frequencies: 
  >
  >1837.0, 3589.0, 7037.5, 10141.5, 14074.0, 14094.0, 18104.5, 21094.0, 
24926.0, 
  >28146.0, 50162.5, 144162.5 (AF at 1625 Hz).
  >The complete list of frequencies is on "http://hflink.com/ale400";. 
  >
  >For digital spots and skeds, here are two good Internet addresses:
  >
  >The Sholto (KE7HPV) digital spotting page for 30m
  >http://www.projectsandparts.com/30m/
  >
  >The Andy (K3UK) digitalradio Interactive Sked Page 
  >For arranging QSOs and experimenting in all digital modes . 
  >Digital Mode Calling Frequencies 18102 kHz USB 14077 kHz USB, 10139 kHz USB, 
  >7034 kHz USB International , 7065 kHz USB , 3577 kHz USB
  >http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php
  >
  >
  > - Original Message - 
  > From: "John Becker, WØJAB" 
  > To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:34 PM
  > Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400
  >
  >
  > Where on the bands can this mode be found?
  > And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ?
  >
  >
  >
  > 
  >
  >---html-part included links---
  >
  >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  >mailto:digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/database
  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join;_ylc=
  >X3oDMTJmMGJvNHVwBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMTA4B
  >HNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExOTc0OTU5Njg-
  >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery: Digest
  >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery 
  >Format: Fully Featured
  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio;_ylc=
  >X3oDMTJkcWNvczl0BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMTA4B
  >HNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTk3NDk1OTY4
  >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


   

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Hisami Dejima]

Hi Patrik

I found ALE400 by RSID, but QSO was not completed. 
Can I find the MultiPSK ALE tutorial in the Internet?

73, Hisami 7L4IOU


>Hello John,
>
>>Where on the bands can this mode be found?
>For this first question look at the mail hereafter, sent in the Multipsk 
>group.
>
>>And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ?
>Pactor 1 and Amtor are FSK modes (two frequencies). ALE and ALE400 are MFSK 
>modes (as MFSK16 for example). 
>So ALE400 sounds much more MFSK16, but more rapid. Just set the "RS ID 
>detection" ON, so as to detect and auto-tune automatically, on reception of 
>an ALE400 transmission.
>
>73
>Patrick 
>
>
>Click on the button "QRGs" for all the frequencies.
>
>Here is for ALE400:
>ALE400 (USB)
>Here after is a non exhaustive list of the ALE400 frequencies: 
>
>1837.0, 3589.0, 7037.5, 10141.5, 14074.0, 14094.0, 18104.5, 21094.0, 24926.0, 
>28146.0, 50162.5, 144162.5 (AF at 1625 Hz).
>The complete list of frequencies is on "http://hflink.com/ale400";. 
>
>For digital spots and skeds, here are two good Internet addresses:
>
>The Sholto (KE7HPV) digital spotting page for 30m
>http://www.projectsandparts.com/30m/
>
>The Andy (K3UK) digitalradio Interactive Sked Page 
>For arranging QSOs and experimenting in all digital modes . 
>Digital Mode Calling Frequencies 18102 kHz USB 14077 kHz USB, 10139 kHz USB, 
>7034 kHz USB International , 7065 kHz USB , 3577 kHz USB
>http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php
>
>
>  - Original Message - 
>  From: "John Becker, WØJAB" 
>  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
>  Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:34 PM
>  Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400
>
>
>  Where on the bands can this mode be found?
>  And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ?
>
>
>
>   
>
>---html-part included links---
>
>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>mailto:digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/database
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join;_ylc=
>X3oDMTJmMGJvNHVwBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMTA4B
>HNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExOTc0OTU5Njg-
>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery: Digest
>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery 
>Format: Fully Featured
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio;_ylc=
>X3oDMTJkcWNvczl0BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzE4NzExODMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYzMTA4B
>HNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTk3NDk1OTY4
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[John Becker, WØJAB]

At 03:47 PM 12/12/2007, you wrote:

>Pactor 1 and Amtor are FSK modes (two frequencies). ALE and ALE400 are MFSK 
>modes (as MFSK16 for example). 

Thanks Patrick.
I knew that but was asking if it sounds like Pactor or Amtor ARQ.
The fast on off. 

I have no clue what  "RS ID detection"  is .

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Patrick Lindecker]

Hello John,

>Where on the bands can this mode be found?
For this first question look at the mail hereafter, sent in the Multipsk group.

>And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ?
Pactor 1 and Amtor are FSK modes (two frequencies). ALE and ALE400 are MFSK 
modes (as MFSK16 for example). 
So ALE400 sounds much more MFSK16, but more rapid. Just set the "RS ID 
detection" ON, so as to detect and auto-tune automatically, on reception of an 
ALE400 transmission.

73
Patrick 


Click on the button "QRGs" for all the frequencies.

Here is for ALE400:
ALE400 (USB)
Here after is a non exhaustive list of the ALE400 frequencies: 

1837.0, 3589.0, 7037.5, 10141.5, 14074.0, 14094.0, 18104.5, 21094.0, 24926.0, 
28146.0, 50162.5, 144162.5 (AF at 1625 Hz).
The complete list of frequencies is on "http://hflink.com/ale400";. 

For digital spots and skeds, here are two good Internet addresses:

The Sholto (KE7HPV) digital spotting page for 30m
http://www.projectsandparts.com/30m/

The Andy (K3UK) digitalradio Interactive Sked Page 
For arranging QSOs and experimenting in all digital modes . 
Digital Mode Calling Frequencies 18102 kHz USB 14077 kHz USB, 10139 kHz USB, 
7034 kHz USB International , 7065 kHz USB , 3577 kHz USB
http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php


  - Original Message - 
  From: "John Becker, WØJAB" 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 11:34 PM
  Subject: [digitalradio] ALE400


  Where on the bands can this mode be found?
  And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ?



   

Re: [digitalradio] ALE400

[Rick]

Hi John,

We don't have any specific places we have been operating, although I 
made a suggestion on the HFDEC yahoogroup (Hams for Disaster and 
Emergency Communications), that perhaps we could operate up a ways from 
the typical PSK31 watering holes. My suggestion, and it is only a 
suggestion, is up 5 kHz, so 3585, 7075, 10145, and 14075? Or perhaps 
some other frequencies if these interfere with something.

The sound is not like regular 141A ALE since it is 2.5 time slower. Even 
though it is not as fast as 141A ALE, since it is much more robust, it 
gets through when 141A can not. Generally speaking, 141A ALE is fairly 
old technology now, and can only work a few dB below the noise. FAE 400 
is even more robust than ALE 400 (apparently due to memory ARQ as 
implemented in Pactor) and seems to work as well as, or even better than 
PSK31. And while the bandwidth is much wider than PSK31 (about 400 Hz vs 
only 60 Hz) you get solid error free copy with no hits.

The feel of the modes is amazingly similar to Clover II. It uses an 
asynchronous ARQ, so there is no constant back and forth transmission, 
even when nothing is being sent. It sends only when there is something 
to send, or when it needs to retry. I have always found it really neat 
how fast the other station can automatically respond to a burst of data. 
Very much the same thing as when we tested the high speed (~ 1000 wpm) 
SCAMP mode a few years ago.

73,

Rick, KV9U


John Becker, WØJAB wrote:
> Where on the bands can this mode be found?
> And does it sound like Pactor / Amtor ARQ ?
>
>
>