date:20101010


Le 2010-10-10 18:03, Paul A Norman a écrit :

HI,

I am becoming a little confused over where Document Foundation stuff
lives - and communications take place, and the relationships between
different channels.

Is there a central list any where of where the 'main' stuff takes place please?

Paul



Hi Paul:

As you can tell even by your message, the DocumentFoundation is at the 
very start of organizing itself and many people are in the process of 
raising forums, wikis, mailing lists etc ... It just takes time to 
organize. Keep coming back to this list to contribute any of your 
opinions to discussion threads as well as for any anouncements.


We are told that all of these will appear very soon. Our patience will 
be richly rewarded.


Marc


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[tdf-discuss] Forums, Wikis, mailing lists

2010-10-10 Thread Paul A Norman

HI,

I am becoming a little confused over where Document Foundation stuff
lives - and communications take place, and the relationships between
different channels.

Is there a central list any where of where the 'main' stuff takes place please?

Paul

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Survey|Opinion - LibreOffice Install and Update

2010-10-10 Thread Paul A Norman

On 10 October 2010 10:23, Scott Furry  wrote:
>  LibreOffice Community,
>
> As suggested, this post is intended to get the opinion of the community
> about how best to deliver LibreOffice to its users.
>
> Given that LibreOffice is an important and viable alternative to paid-for
> office productivity software, and we all feel strongly and passionately
> about the direction of LibreOffice, input about the community members'
> expectations/needs/users is needed.
>
> From what we have heard on this topic so far:
>
> - Mac users have commented that they do not have an issue with the current
> installer available on the Mac platform.
>
> - Window users indicated that an update mechanism would be great. Some
> commented that the current Windows installer leaves artifacts behind. The
> Windows Installer does not detect/remove previous installations properly.
>

With all due repsects to the vast numbers of potential new M$ users of
LiBO - everything needs to be done for them. That will probably never
change. There are millions and millions of them who are not going to
be in a *nix system - sometimes beyond their control.

People have ended up with over a gigs worth of OOO stuff over time,
and only about a quarter or less of it, actually in use.

In fact in previous installs of OOO people have commented to me that
they have felt that OOO needs all its install files to keep running
properly, and so they can't delete them after the installs!
(There, to my knowledge, has never been a message telling them to
delete install files at the end of the install - and it really should
be done for them any way).

> - Linux users have discussed vast amounts opinions on packaging in Linux.
> Some have questioned if distributing packages is a good thing.
>
> ---
>
> This survey is to gauge the views of the LibreOffice community on the
> install/update method of LibreOffice. Please voice your opinion so that
> these considerations may be taken into account when the LibreOffice method
> of install/update is studied by the developer team. Please *bottom-post*
> your opinions.
>

I am trying to answer all this also as I *know* other friends and
users would like an office suite to operate, who have avoided/not been
happy with OOO and like things in the past.

> How do you expect LibreOffice to be updated?
>

Behind the scenes and uttlery automatically, with prompts only if new
options are available.

> How do you Install/Update LibreOffice?
>

XP - Download directly.
Ubuntu - presently - package manager (please see note below)

> What do you expect when Installing/Updating LibreOffice?
>

It will handle all dependencies, keep track of what it has done -
clean up after itself, only trouble me with real issues during setup,
updates just to be done and only trouble me if necessary.

> Other programs have separate updating programs (iTunes being an example), if
> it was technically feasible, would having a separate install program for
> LibreOffice (with updating features) be useful to you?
>

Absolutley.

> Would having a download and update site, as well as a Unix|Linux package
> repository site, be of value to you?
>

I beleive so,

I may differ with some, but I believe that with the plethra of *nix
distributions now in varying degrees of maintanence, that actually
having a direct install to get the best availbele version of LiBO
installed is better, let us  risk a little (some times temporary)
bloat, and have isolated (used by LiBO only and so does not interfer
with the OS distro) more uptodate modules of dependanceis that the OS
is not uptodate on itself.  Have LiBO auto checking on each LiBO
update and if the OS distro has caught up, have LiBO delete its own
now unneeded module(s) and use the OS distro's updated shared
libraries instead.

> ---
>
> Please note that I am not affiliated with DocumentFoundation. I am like you,
> a community member who wants to see LibreOffice be very successful.
>
> So let's hear what you think folks?
>
> Regards,
> Scott Furry
>
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] QA Infrastructure

2010-10-10 Thread Caio Tiago Oliveira


Florian Effenberger, 10-10-2010 16:06:

Hi,

Caio Tiago Oliveira wrote on 2010-10-10 21.01:

Could someone contact them to know whether they will actually cooperate?


Per is currently working on a QATrack for TDF/LibO. :-) Will be
available soon.


Nice, thanks.


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Re: [tdf-discuss] QA Infrastructure

2010-10-10 Thread Florian Effenberger


Hi,

Caio Tiago Oliveira wrote on 2010-10-10 21.01:

Could someone contact them to know whether they will actually cooperate?


Per is currently working on a QATrack for TDF/LibO. :-) Will be 
available soon.


Florian

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Re: [tdf-discuss] QA Infrastructure

2010-10-10 Thread Caio Tiago Oliveira


Andrea Pescetti, 09-10-2010 04:48:

Caio Tiago Oliveira wrote:

Per Eriksson, what do you need on the server to run QATrack?


I don'tspeak for Per, but until I maintained it QATrack was a rather
standard LAMP application and, as far as I could see,this is still the
case. But Andre' already clarified that qatrack.services.openoffice.org,
the current instance of QATrack, is on community-run servers and that a
fresh installation wouldn't be problematic.


Could someone contact them to know whether they will actually cooperate?



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Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

2010-10-10 Thread Charles Marcus

On 2010-10-09 9:14 PM, Larry Gusaas wrote:
> It is important that people who prefer to use Gmane instead of
> receiving emails be able to do so simply.

It is important to those people, yes... but you seem to be refusing to
grasp the simple fact that there are a very limited number of people
working on a monumentally huge task, and they *must* prioritize things.

No offense, but you remind me of my spoiled brat nephew who wants what
he wants when he wants and to hell with everyone else. Maybe you didn't
intend to come across this way, but you did - go back and re-read your
posts, especially how many times you complained loudly about having to
get email to be able to post through gmane even after you had been told
multiple times about the nomail subscription option, although you
obviously finally got the message.

I understand frustration, and am myself very vocal and generous in
criticism when I feel it is warranted, however The Document Foundation
effort is still extremely new, and I believe they deserve a lot of
respect for the monumental task they are undertaking. What they don't
deserve is a bunch of us all yelling at the same time about our own pet
peeves as if ours were the only ones that mattered.

> I originally subscribed to the email list. When Gmane became
> available, I started using it and unsubscribed to the list. When I
> couldn't post through Gmane I re-subscribed to the list. Later I
> unsubscribed again and then subscribed to the nomail list.

So now you have what you want... "don't worry, be happy" now. :)

> There is no indication on your webpage or on Gmane to indicate that
> you have to subscribe to the mailing list to post through Gmane, as I
> stated before. Indeed there should be no need to do so.

So maybe you could be constructive and write up some appropriate changes
and submit them to Florian so he could update the website.

> Having to jump through hoops like this and getting responses like
> yours lowers my desire to have any thing to do with Document
> Foundation

Responses - like - politely informing you of a very simple workaround
and explaining in detail the hows and whys of the situation right now,
and that things will be dealt with when time allows?

Personally I think you have been very demanding and unreasonable during
this entire thread, Larry, and owe an apology to Florian and the others
doing the heavy lifting.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

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Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

2010-10-10 Thread Larry Gusaas

On 2010/10/10 5:23 AM Bernhard Dippold wrote:

Hi Larry,

Larry Gusaas schrieb:

What would you be giving away?

Maintenance and control over the content of the archives. Will Gnome
store them for tenths of years? at the same place?

According to your website you have your archives set up.The question of how long Gmane will
store posts is irrelevant. You have control of your own archives

As for the past, I do not know what you mean.

In this case it is not easy to discuss this topic with you, because you
don't know about the necessities for our mailing lists either.

The OpenOffice.org lists have been hosted by CollabNet, that had
restrictions in list management (language dependent information mails
just to mention one point). We asked them several times for
improvements, but changes have been very hard to achieve (if at all).

I know that. It is also irrelevant to the question of posting through Gmane. You have control
of your lists and archives. They have nothing to do with Gmane.

Gmane is the simplest way to follow OOo groups and would be the
simplest way to follow this and other LibreOffice lists without
having to deal with a ton of emails every day.

Please consider, that this position is your own personal opinion.
Many other people think differently. I need to download the mails, because I have to work
offline some time. Others have very limited and unreliable online connections.

Gmane is probably not the simplest way to manage mailing list even if you consider it to be
the best way for you to read them.

Who said anything about managing mailing lists? Gmane provides a way to read and post to a
mailing list through a newsreader. It is not managing any mail lists.

So I don't understand why you insist on this point instead of just unsubscribing and
re-subscribing with the nomail-option that allows you to send to the list (via Gmane or
directly) without receiving *any* of the list mails.

Obviously I have done this since I am posting through Gmane (see the header
'X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/').

My reason for continuing this issue is so anyone new to this project who sees the option on
your webpage of using Gmane to read and post to the mailing lists will be able to do so. There
is no indication that they have to subscribe to the list twice, once at Gmane and again to the
mailing list itself. There is no need to do so. Subscribing through Gmane would be sufficient.

Why do you insist on the necessity of unsubscribed postings through Gmane?

They are subscribed at Gmane. It is redundant to have to subscribe twice.

Indeed there should be no need to do so.

I could imagine that we will be able to change this once we stopped fighting the much more
important topics at the beginning of the Foundation's existence.

I am only trying to clear up some apparent misunderstandings about Gmane and make it easier for
people to participate in the project.

--
-

Larry I. Gusaas
Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan Canada
Website: http://larry-gusaas.com
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs." -
Edgard Varese

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Re: LibO Install/Update ( was [tdf-discuss] Automatic Updates)

2010-10-10 Thread Charles Marcus

On 2010-10-09 5:23 PM, Scott Furry wrote:
> As you suggest, there is the core software,  and is also a host of
> software applications (some even have their own QA/Testing programs -
> Mozilla being a prominent example).
> 
> If that's what openSUSE does, great! But users of other distributions
> have different needs and level of knowledge. They have chosen their
> distribution/platform. Should LibO not respect that user decision?

Pretty much every distro I know of has extra/additional repositories
that include up to date versions of user applications, it just requires
the user to enable access to them.

There are many reasons to stay with the distros package management
system, and many ways to do so but still get access to 'the latest' (or
maybe just a minor version point or two behind)...

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Survey|Opinion - LibreOffice Install and Update

2010-10-10 Thread Erich Christian

Hi Marc,

Am 10.10.2010 14:36, schrieb Marc Paré:
> Le 2010-10-10 06:22, Erich Christian a écrit :
>> Maybe a new thread for the survey would be helpful to get attention from
>> those not following the "install" thread.
> This is a new thread exactly for that reason.

Thx, guess my Thunderbird sorted wrong... was looking in vain for
further replies including mine in the old thread...  ;-)

Erich

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[tdf-discuss] libreoffice3.3-redhat-menus-3.3-9526.noarch.rpm package error

2010-10-10 Thread Cleiton

Hello. I found a bug in the package
libreoffice3.3-redhat-menus-3.3-9526.noarch.rpm, wich put the LibreOffice
entries in menus on Fedora. The entry try to call "libreoffice", but in the
/usr/bin, the correct name is "libreoffice3". The entries don't work well
with the "%U", a message say "libreoffice can't found %U" is presented.

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[tdf-discuss] tdf-wiki: tasks

Hi,

because there are a lot of discussions and a lot of emails on the 
tdf-/libreOffice-
lists, open tasks, that need some volunteers, disappear relatively fast due to 
the 
other stuff that are heavily debated on the lists. Because we get our own wiki 
now, 
we should use this to write down every task that needs a volunteer. I created a 
"torso" page where everybody is invite to collect such tasks. Then we can point 
volunteers to this site.

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Tasks

Because it's a wiki, everybody is invited to enhance the site ;-)

Regards,
Andreas

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Database and accounting program

2010-10-10 Thread Drew Jensen

On Sun, 2010-10-10 at 09:40 -0500, Matthew Copple wrote:
> LO does have a database component called Base. Furthermore, it is

> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 6:40 AM, Miguel Mayol Tur  wrote:
> > There are no database program in Oo, Lo mut have a ProgrestSQL interface
> >

Hi,

Have created a page on the new wiki for the Base application.

You can find the English version at

http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/EN/Base

Thanks

Drew


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Re: [tdf-discuss] Database and accounting program

2010-10-10 Thread Matthew Copple

LO does have a database component called Base. Furthermore, it is
relatively easy to use LO Base as a front end to PostGRESql, MySQL, or
for that matter, just about any other RDBMS backend. Just google
"postgresql openoffice base" and you will find plenty of references
and how-tos.

Matthew Copple
mcop...@kcopensource.org

On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 6:40 AM, Miguel Mayol Tur  wrote:
> There are no database program in Oo, Lo mut have a ProgrestSQL interface
>
> and installer with a good Access importer, and a new accounting program
>
> based in this database, perhaps starting from other projects as KEME, wi
> th
> international accounts numbers created for it allowing consolidation for
>
> multinational business.
>
> A billing programa that would allow from SOHO to multinationals ERP, fro
> m
> a simple bar or restaurant, to a several bar/restaurant company for a
> beginning with a lot of targets at this sector.
>
> Making specific modules for billing at each sector
>
> billing / accounting programs would make a lot of maney for the company
>
> with, for example, prepaid calls for tech support and small anual fees f
> or
> tech suport over IP calls.
>
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Re: [tdf-discuss] PDF forms and edit

Hi Marc, Bernhard, *,

Am Sonntag, 10. Oktober 2010, 14:41:56 schrieb Marc Paré:
> Le 2010-10-10 08:39, Bernhard Dippold a écrit :
(...)
> > I can open PDF files using just the "open file" command without the need
> > for any extension.
> >
> > Has this extension already been integrated in the sources?
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Bernhard
>
> I think so. I think the LibO is using the Go-OO version and not the
> OpenOffice version.

if you have a look inside tools - Extension Manager you will find out that
the import
extension is already there.

Regards,
Andreas
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Re: [tdf-discuss] PDF forms and edit


Le 2010-10-10 08:28, Simos Xenitellis a écrit :


What we need to do here is to prepare the technical details so that the Lib
O
marketing team can push this important feature.

At least for now it is easier to reuse the platform PDF viewer instead of
adding such functionality in LibO.
That is, we suggest for each platform which PDF readers have the ability to
save the completed PDF forms.
Then talk that LibO can create and manage those documents that produce the
PDF forms.

Simos




Hi Simos

I don't think the marketing team needs to do this. The marketing team 
should highlight LibO's great form creating abilities to the public and 
the documentation team should make sure that the documentation for the 
"form" creation options be well documented along with many examples for 
public download.


Marc


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Re: [tdf-discuss] PDF forms and edit


Le 2010-10-10 08:39, Bernhard Dippold a écrit :

Hi Andreas,

Andreas Mantke schrieb:

Hi Marc, *,

Am Sonntag, 10. Oktober 2010, 14:07:39 schrieb Marc Paré: (...)

[...] you can use the PDF-Import-Extension. You can create with
that extension hybrid files, that opens with the programm module,
that was used to create the file, or with a pdf-reader.


I can open PDF files using just the "open file" command without the need
for any extension.

Has this extension already been integrated in the sources?

Best regards

Bernhard



I think so. I think the LibO is using the Go-OO version and not the 
OpenOffice version.


Marc


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Re: [tdf-discuss] PDF forms and edit


Thanks for the tech info.

I did not know that, and i am using Staroffice, after Oo since it became


Open source.

I only have one thing to say MAKE IT EASIER

As I have just say I do think Interfaces must be think for lammers,

complete lammers.
And there must be advanced options for advanced users.

Why not an easy FORM module, that can publish a form to send in a web pa
ge

by any lammer.
Where this web form send a PDF result and a database result to the form


maker.
And also an easy way to do it by mail.

If it is really easy and for lammers - only question of interface after


your response -
Would it become a de facto standard? wouldn't it?

There are an excellent open source migration process in a Generalitat

Valenciana deaprtment with the creation of a new Open Source program nam
ed

gvSIG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GvSIG and others and they say they ar
e

working in CAD and in FORMS to complete the migration to opensource

depending of Autodesk and Adobe. This open office form must not complete


what they want. But perhaps if there where a new angle - new easy

interface - would make them and others to installa full Libre Office onl
y

for this function.

Note I observe in lammers to use proprietary products because Oo, and in
a

near future Lo do not give rhem any value add. Even if MSO cost the

company money and Oo not.

If Lo begins with it first non beta edition DOING OTHER THINGS that are


necesasry for an office, this Value add would make it worth to be

installed.

And FORMS, Integrated easy scanning tools, E-FAX, PDF edition, Billing,


Accounting, ERP, VoIP, as modules with the same and easy interface would


be a great new tool to install not a fork that does the same than Open

office or MS Office.




En Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:25:37 +0200, Andreas Mantke  escrib
ió:


Hi Marc, *,

Am Sonntag, 10. Oktober 2010, 14:07:39 schrieb Marc Paré:
(...)


Actually, LibO (OpenOffice) has very powerful "form" creating tools a

nd

it follows a recognized ISO document standard
(http://www.iso.org/iso/fr/pressrelease.htm?refid=Ref1004). It woul

d

make sense, to me, to try to advertise this fact and to encourage the



use and posting of forms made with with LibO.



I know that feature and used it to create forms that could be filled o

ut


wi
th a pdf-
reader.


Then if people wanted to modify the forms, they would just have to
modify the forms, it would just be a question of re-working the LibO




file.

IMHO, this is what we should be encouraging.

LibO also does a great job at creating forms and then exporting these

to

.pdf format (.pdf is also an ISO document standard
(http://www.iso.org/iso/pressrelease.htm?refid=Ref1141). If, for ex

ample

you are creating a form for a group, you can send them both the .pdf
form (there is no real way to modify this form in whole) and the LibO



file that you used to create the form. The LibO file could then be us

ed

to modify the form is the group wanted.


If you want to get both, you can use the PDF-Import-Extension. You can




crea
te with
that extension hybrid files, that opens with the programm module, that




was
used to
create the file, or with a pdf-reader.

Regards,
Andreas
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Re: [tdf-discuss] Survey|Opinion - LibreOffice Install and Update


Le 2010-10-10 06:22, Erich Christian a écrit :

Am 09.10.2010 23:23, schrieb Scott Furry:

As suggested, this post is intended to get the opinion of the community
about how best to deliver LibreOffice to its users.


Maybe a new thread for the survey would be helpful to get attention from
those not following the "install" thread.


Erich




Hi Erich

This is a new thread exactly for that reason.

Marc


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Re: [tdf-discuss] PDF forms and edit

2010-10-10 Thread Bernhard Dippold


Hi Andreas,

Andreas Mantke schrieb:

Hi Marc, *,

Am Sonntag, 10. Oktober 2010, 14:07:39 schrieb Marc Paré: (...)

[...] you can use the PDF-Import-Extension. You can create with
that extension hybrid files, that opens with the programm module,
that was used to create the file, or with a pdf-reader.


I can open PDF files using just the "open file" command without the need 
for any extension.


Has this extension already been integrated in the sources?

Best regards

Bernhard

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Re: [tdf-discuss] PDF forms and edit





If you want to get both, you can use the PDF-Import-Extension. You can crea
te with
that extension hybrid files, that opens with the programm module, that was
used to
create the file, or with a pdf-reader.

Regards,
Andreas


Hi Andreas

I have tried and used the hybrid. Although, I found that the combination 
of the LibO forms file export to .pdf method to be more efficient. I 
then send the groups both files, in case they wish to modify the forms. 
The .pdf form fillable is the form they use for public use. Most groups 
are now aware of the OpenOffice.org suite (LIbO) and either have it or 
have not problem downloading it if it is going to make their lives easier.


Marc


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Re: [tdf-discuss] PDF forms and edit

2010-10-10 Thread Simos Xenitellis

On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 3:07 PM, Marc Paré  wrote:

> Le 2010-10-10 07:49, Andreas Mantke a écrit :
>
>  Hi,
>>
>> Am Sonntag, 10. Oktober 2010, 13:29:28 schrieb Miguel Mayol Tur:
>>
>>> As PDF is a open standard, there would be a good idea not to depend of
>>>
>>> propietary software to make and fill PDFs forms and edit PDF documents.
>>>
>>>
>>> And LIBRE OFFICE SHOULD do that.
>>>
>>
>> there are a lot of not proprietary pdf reading programms available, that
>> ca
>> n do this
>> work., i.e. Okular on Linux.
>> In my opinion there is currently no need to develop such a function insi
de
>> LO.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andreas
>>
>
> Actually, LibO (OpenOffice) has very powerful "form" creating tools and i
t
> follows a recognized ISO document standard (
> http://www.iso.org/iso/fr/pressrelease.htm?refid=Ref1004). It would mak
e
> sense, to me, to try to advertise this fact and to encourage the use and
> posting of forms made with with LibO.
>
> Then if people wanted to modify the forms, they would just have to modify
> the forms, it would just be a question of re-working the LibO file.
>
> IMHO, this is what we should be encouraging.
>
> LibO also does a great job at creating forms and then exporting these to
> .pdf format (.pdf is also an ISO document standard (
> http://www.iso.org/iso/pressrelease.htm?refid=Ref1141). If, for example
> you are creating a form for a group, you can send them both the .pdf form
> (there is no real way to modify this form in whole) and the LibO file tha
t
> you used to create the form. The LibO file could then be used to modify t
he
> form is the group wanted.
>
>
What we need to do here is to prepare the technical details so that the Lib
O
marketing team can push this important feature.

At least for now it is easier to reuse the platform PDF viewer instead of
adding such functionality in LibO.
That is, we suggest for each platform which PDF readers have the ability to
save the completed PDF forms.
Then talk that LibO can create and manage those documents that produce the
PDF forms.

Simos


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Re: [tdf-discuss] PDF forms and edit

Hi Marc, *,

Am Sonntag, 10. Oktober 2010, 14:07:39 schrieb Marc Paré:
(...)
>
> Actually, LibO (OpenOffice) has very powerful "form" creating tools and
> it follows a recognized ISO document standard
> (http://www.iso.org/iso/fr/pressrelease.htm?refid=Ref1004). It would
> make sense, to me, to try to advertise this fact and to encourage the
> use and posting of forms made with with LibO.
>

I know that feature and used it to create forms that could be filled out wi
th a pdf-
reader.

> Then if people wanted to modify the forms, they would just have to
> modify the forms, it would just be a question of re-working the LibO file.
>
> IMHO, this is what we should be encouraging.
>
> LibO also does a great job at creating forms and then exporting these to
> .pdf format (.pdf is also an ISO document standard
> (http://www.iso.org/iso/pressrelease.htm?refid=Ref1141). If, for example
> you are creating a form for a group, you can send them both the .pdf
> form (there is no real way to modify this form in whole) and the LibO
> file that you used to create the form. The LibO file could then be used
> to modify the form is the group wanted.

If you want to get both, you can use the PDF-Import-Extension. You can crea
te with
that extension hybrid files, that opens with the programm module, that was
used to
create the file, or with a pdf-reader.

Regards,
Andreas
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Re: [tdf-discuss] PDF forms and edit


You are right in not to work in what is done. But ...

I do not ask for new programs, for example add Okular to the suite.

I'm economist and I also studied Tech Eng in Systems Computer Science, b
ut

not finished.

I always think in the 40% of lammer using computers.

You must give them a very easy interface without letting advanced option
s

out, but separated.

I do think this Libre Office must have more programs to be a real Office


provider. -The same for Oo and MSO-

lammer hate to install a lot of programs, they wish is all around one.

Even copying CDs. Enterprises are all full of computers lammer.

That is why i think Libre office must complete the office with other ope
n

programs that rules as modules for given a more complete solution than M
S

Office or even Open office.

If it where my decision, database (frontned for Progrest SQL), Accountin
g

KEME or any other, any openERP, Okular and others as an E-FAX program

would be modules, and I would make 2 packages LibreOffice main and

Extended.

In order to give this selection of Open Source Office programs that are


not wordprocessing, presentations and Spreadsheets.

And of course I would work looking for MAC programs easy of use

(usability) with advanced options and some different templates for the

interfaces that should be also open where you can choose for example an
MS

Office XP look and feel as you can do actually with Gnome and MS WOS XP
if

you want for example.



En Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:49:23 +0200, Andreas Mantke  escrib
ió:


Hi,

Am Sonntag, 10. Oktober 2010, 13:29:28 schrieb Miguel Mayol Tur:

As PDF is a open standard, there would be a good idea not to depend o

f


propietary software to make and fill PDFs forms and edit PDF document

s.



And LIBRE OFFICE SHOULD do that.


there are a lot of not proprietary pdf reading programms available, th

at


ca
n do this
work., i.e. Okular on Linux.
In my opinion there is currently no need to develop such a function



inside
LO.

Regards,
Andreas
--
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## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows, Solaris
## http://de.openoffice.org
## OpenOffice.org Portable: http://oooportable.org
## OOoPDFConverter: http://ooopdfconverter.sourceforge.net
## Meine Seite: http://www.amantke.de

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http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/




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Re: [tdf-discuss] Survey|Opinion - LibreOffice Install and Update


Le 2010-10-09 17:23, Scott Furry a écrit :

LibreOffice Community,

As suggested, this post is intended to get the opinion of the community
about how best to deliver LibreOffice to its users.

Given that LibreOffice is an important and viable alternative to
paid-for office productivity software, and we all feel strongly and
passionately about the direction of LibreOffice, input about the
community members' expectations/needs/users is needed.

 From what we have heard on this topic so far:

- Mac users have commented that they do not have an issue with the
current installer available on the Mac platform.

- Window users indicated that an update mechanism would be great. Some
commented that the current Windows installer leaves artifacts behind.
The Windows Installer does not detect/remove previous installations
properly.

- Linux users have discussed vast amounts opinions on packaging in
Linux. Some have questioned if distributing packages is a good thing.

---

This survey is to gauge the views of the LibreOffice community on the
install/update method of LibreOffice. Please voice your opinion so that
these considerations may be taken into account when the LibreOffice
method of install/update is studied by the developer team. Please
*bottom-post* your opinions.

How do you expect LibreOffice to be updated?


I would favour an incremental update for the suite rather than a full 
download.




How do you Install/Update LibreOffice?


In installed from the LibO "downloads" .rpm's. OpenOffice, through my 
distro's packaging system (Mandriva). I also, from time to time, 
downloaded the "most recent" version of OpenOffice from the 
OpenOffice.org site because I didn't want to wait for my distro's next 
update. Sometimes the packager would take too long, or they would offer 
the next upgraded version of OpenOffice at the next Mandriva distro upgrade.




What do you expect when Installing/Updating LibreOffice?


No residual files leftovers.



Other programs have separate updating programs (iTunes being an
example), if it was technically feasible, would having a separate
install program for LibreOffice (with updating features) be useful to you?


I would prefer this method. Incremental of course.



Would having a download and update site, as well as a Unix|Linux package
repository site, be of value to you?


I would prefer an official LibO repo that where I could point my package 
manager. I my linux distro wanted to rework the LibO suite for a more 
integrated look (theme), this could be at their option.


I this were possible, the various Linux distro's could be made aware of 
this and would just code their packaging systems (for users) to point to 
the LibO repo. There would have to be a way for LibO to find a way to 
"play nice" with dependencies so that it would not break the Linux 
distro installations.




---

Please note that I am not affiliated with DocumentFoundation. I am like
you, a community member who wants to see LibreOffice be very successful.

So let's hear what you think folks?

Regards,
Scott Furry




Marc


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Re: [tdf-discuss] just a greeting from ja and qa project lead

2010-10-10 Thread Charles-H. Schulz

Le Sun, 10 Oct 2010 10:21:54 +0200,
Sophie Gautier  a écrit :

> Hi Maho
>
> 2010/10/10 André Schnabel :
> > Hi Maho,
> >
> > Am 10.10.2010 03:41, schrieb Maho NAKATA:
> >>
> >> Hi Folks,
> >>
> >> I'll do the best.
> >
> > It's great to have you here - warm welcome from my side. :)
>
> I join André and his welcome, it's great to have you here :)

Maho, welcome to you and the Japanese Native-Language Project
(and to all the other languages that I haven't greeted yet) :-)
Maho, please subscribe to l...@libreoffice.org

Best,
Charles.


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Re: [tdf-discuss] PDF forms and edit


Le 2010-10-10 07:49, Andreas Mantke a écrit :

Hi,

Am Sonntag, 10. Oktober 2010, 13:29:28 schrieb Miguel Mayol Tur:

As PDF is a open standard, there would be a good idea not to depend of

propietary software to make and fill PDFs forms and edit PDF documents.


And LIBRE OFFICE SHOULD do that.


there are a lot of not proprietary pdf reading programms available, that ca
n do this
work., i.e. Okular on Linux.
In my opinion there is currently no need to develop such a function inside
LO.

Regards,
Andreas


Actually, LibO (OpenOffice) has very powerful "form" creating tools and 
it follows a recognized ISO document standard 
(http://www.iso.org/iso/fr/pressrelease.htm?refid=Ref1004). It would 
make sense, to me, to try to advertise this fact and to encourage the 
use and posting of forms made with with LibO.


Then if people wanted to modify the forms, they would just have to 
modify the forms, it would just be a question of re-working the LibO file.


IMHO, this is what we should be encouraging.

LibO also does a great job at creating forms and then exporting these to 
.pdf format (.pdf is also an ISO document standard 
(http://www.iso.org/iso/pressrelease.htm?refid=Ref1141). If, for example 
you are creating a form for a group, you can send them both the .pdf 
form (there is no real way to modify this form in whole) and the LibO 
file that you used to create the form. The LibO file could then be used 
to modify the form is the group wanted.


Marc




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[tdf-discuss] PDF E-fax



Most of the users want it easy.

A simple e-fax program that prints/scans in PDF and send it to other e-f
ax

program or to FAX machines would simplify a lot their work.

Even from/to smartphones / Tablets.

IP to FAX with some VoIP free software and cheap companies, or even as

income to Lo would be a great solution for this kind of customers. Unabl
e

to scan in pdf and attach it to send to an e-mail, trust me they are

almost more than 40%.

This alternative to FAX and e-mail at the beginning would has less junk


mail (FAX) you would be able to block unknown senders, block spammers, a
nd

keep it for your customers and providers on your booklist.

And as the traffic should be documents, bills, pro forms, and so one, no
t

comunications - that is for e-mail - it would be a great part of the

suite. Better if is the first in make it standard. because you can do it


now, but is not for lammers.

This must be a multiplattform app from desktops to Phones and Tablets,

that would make the customers say "SEND ME A FAX TO MY E-FAX, AT MY MOBI
LE

NUMBER" (- FROM NORMAL FAX : MY PHONE NUMBER - FROM E-FAX PROGRAM TO MY


NUMBER WITH THE INTERNATIONAL CODE -)

And of course use phone cameras to make PDFs, and some plegable hardware


products to fit an A4/Letter in a table and make several pictures from

this fix hardware to make a good resolution scan from documents. I think


in a plegable zigurat - a truncated piramid - where to put the A4 or

Letter in the base and the scanning device - mobile or tablet - in the t
op

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Re: [tdf-discuss] List available at GMANE

2010-10-10 Thread Bernhard Dippold


Hi Larry,

Larry Gusaas schrieb:


On 2010/10/09 3:47 PM Bernhard Dippold wrote:

Larry Gusaas schrieb:

Then why did you set up Gmane in the first place? Why not do it
properly in the first place?


Because it's an external resource. Mailing lists are the center of
our community's activity, so we can't give away it's maintenance
again (we saw what happened in the past).


What would you be giving away?


Maintenance and control over the content of the archives. Will Gnome
store them for tenths of years? at the same place?


As for the past, I do not know what you mean.


In this case it is not easy to discuss this topic with you, because you
don't know about the necessities for our mailing lists either.

The OpenOffice.org lists have been hosted by CollabNet, that had
restrictions in list management (language dependent information mails
just to mention one point). We asked them several times for
improvements, but changes have been very hard to achieve (if at all).


Gmane is the simplest way to follow OOo groups and would be the
simplest way to follow this and other LibreOffice lists without
having to deal with a ton of emails every day.


Please consider, that this position is your own personal opinion.
Many other people think differently. I need to download the mails, 
because I have to work offline some time. Others have very limited and 
unreliable online connections.


Gmane is probably not the simplest way to manage mailing list even if 
you consider it to be the best way for you to read them.


So I don't understand why you insist on this point instead of just 
unsubscribing and re-subscribing with the nomail-option that allows you 
to send to the list (via Gmane or directly) without receiving *any* of 
the list mails.


Are you referring to the problem of unsubscribed posters on OOo?


No

[...]



So please tell them or change the information, if you can do it on
your own.


I have no authority to do anything for Document Foundation.


You don't need to have any authority to ask Gmane to add a phrase to the 
list information.


You are part of the community and you are not only allowed to discuss 
your thoughts on our lists, but to help the community to grow and work 
on their main directive: To create the best and most used free office 
suite in the world.


This doesn't mean that you have the right to tell anybody that your 
opinion is the official position of the Document Foundation.


But you have the right to talk inside and outside of the community about 
the Document Foundation and LibreOffice.


You are very well allowed to inform Gmane, that (at least at the moment) 
it is necessary to subscribe to the mailing lists if you want to send 
messages. But you should add, that this is very easy, because if people 
subscribe via discuss+subscribe-nom...@documentfoundation.org they will 
not receive any mail from the list.



I did
send Gmane an email, according to the following instructions on
http://gmane.org/post.php:

If, however, the group is neither read-only nor non-public, Gmane
will forward the message to the mailing list (after going through
the authorization process described above). The message still might
not be accepted by the mailing list. This is usually because the list
 really is non-public,


In our case this is assumption is wrong: It just needs a subscription on 
it's own.



[...]


I don't have the time to do so and it seems to be much more
important to you.


It is important that people who prefer to use Gmane instead of
receiving emails be able to do so simply. I originally subscribed to
the email list. When Gmane became available, I started using it and
unsubscribed to the list. When I couldn't post through Gmane I
re-subscribed to the list. Later I unsubscribed again and then
subscribed to the nomail list.


So you already have got what you want: Reading through Gmane, posting to 
the list and not getting any mail from the list.


Why do you insist on the necessity of unsubscribed postings through Gmane?

The following point is the only one I think should be worked on in short 
time:


There is no indication on your webpage or on Gmane to indicate that
you have to subscribe to the mailing list to post through Gmane, as
I stated before.


So we need to put this information there. I'll try to reach one of the 
website managers to add this line and I asked you to do so at the Gmane 
side.



Indeed there should be no need to do so.


I could imagine that we will be able to change this once we stopped 
fighting the much more important topics at the beginning of the 
Foundation's existence.


If you don't know by now: All the activities in the foundation have to 
be done by volunteers in their spare time. So please bare with us, if we 
can't do everything at the same time.


Having to jump through hoops like this and getting responses like
yours lowers my desire to have any thing to do with Document
Foundation


I'm sorry to hear that, because I took much more of my time t

[tdf-discuss] Re: Installing single components [was: LibO Install/Update ...]

2010-10-10 Thread Bernhard Dippold


Hi Todd, all,

todd rme schrieb:

[... removed citation of different topic ...]



There is another, somewhat independent issue that has occurred to me.


So this should have been posted in a new thread ;-)


What about how the components are split up?


As far as I know this doesn't have any major positive effects: Most of 
the components share their sources, so you won't spare much disk space.


But we should involve developers already at the beginning: Discussing 
such topics without knowledge about the benefits and necessary resources 
could mean to spend too much time that could be used differently.


Just my 2 cent

Bernhard

> [...]

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Re: [tdf-discuss] Survey|Opinion - LibreOffice Install and Update

2010-10-10 Thread Andrea Pescetti


Scott Furry wrote:
Given that LibreOffice is an important and viable alternative to 
paid-for office productivity software


You seem to imply here that LibreOffice will be distributed for free. 
Note that, as far as I know, the Document Foundation never issued public 
statements about this (although I would be very surprised if LibreOffice 
stable versions are not made available for free), and that under the 
licensing terms anybody can redistribute LibreOffice and ask a fee for it.


I hoped that the questionable naming of LibreOffice would at least have 
the good effect of clarifying the "free/libre" issue...


Regards,
  Andrea Pescetti.


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Re: [tdf-discuss] PDF forms and edit

Hi,

Am Sonntag, 10. Oktober 2010, 13:29:28 schrieb Miguel Mayol Tur:
> As PDF is a open standard, there would be a good idea not to depend of
>
> propietary software to make and fill PDFs forms and edit PDF documents.
>
>
> And LIBRE OFFICE SHOULD do that.

there are a lot of not proprietary pdf reading programms available, that ca
n do this
work., i.e. Okular on Linux.
In my opinion there is currently no need to develop such a function inside
LO.

Regards,
Andreas
--
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## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows, Solaris
## http://de.openoffice.org
## OpenOffice.org Portable: http://oooportable.org
## OOoPDFConverter: http://ooopdfconverter.sourceforge.net
## Meine Seite: http://www.amantke.de

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[tdf-discuss] Database and accounting program


There are no database program in Oo, Lo mut have a ProgrestSQL interface


and installer with a good Access importer, and a new accounting program


based in this database, perhaps starting from other projects as KEME, wi
th

international accounts numbers created for it allowing consolidation for


multinational business.

A billing programa that would allow from SOHO to multinationals ERP, fro
m

a simple bar or restaurant, to a several bar/restaurant company for a

beginning with a lot of targets at this sector.

Making specific modules for billing at each sector

billing / accounting programs would make a lot of maney for the company


with, for example, prepaid calls for tech support and small anual fees f
or

tech suport over IP calls.

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[tdf-discuss] PDF forms and edit