Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Þann mið 20.okt 2010 07:24, skrifaði Sebastian Spaeth: On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 17:07:47 -0500, Barbara Dupreyb...@onr.com wrote: If you would like to monitor what is happening here in the future you may want a web interface to the mailing lists - I will be leaving this page up http://oucv.org/tdf.html Drew, your page is a very neat tie-in to the Nabble version of the list, and should provide everything somebody needs to follow (and continue contributing to) their own thread without necessarily subscribing to the list. This is wonderful! I vote for it to be part of the official support mechanism. +1 +1 -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
As nearly nobody can read all the mails here thoroughly, I just repeat what I read: Charles Marcus schrieb: On 2010-10-19 8:11 AM, Xi Embalsado wrote: WOW! I could never fit a size 50 to a size 2! Well at least don't go to the Microsoft Office size (600MB) Better make things in separate languages. Sorry for some big comments there... What would make more sense to me is to make one installer with maybe 3 or 4 of the most popular languages included, then allow the install process to connect to the internet to download the desired language pack if a different language is selected. Inclusion of that many language packs was necessary because of our distribution system: Even if we have quite a number of mirrors being able to allow downloads from all over the world, the space on our main server is limited. There is not enough room for all the localized versions to be uploaded. Once there will be enough space, the package will become smaller again. Best regards Bernhard -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On 2010-10-18 6:13 PM, Andy Brown wrote: Not trying to put words in your mouth, so to speak, but I think you intended without instead of with. Which I agree with. There should have been better planing on several levels. This isn't productive... how about making suggestions for how to improve things going forward and stop complaining about what is already done? -- Best regards, Charles -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Sorry for typing that (I was too excited for the RTM version). I have a question... Why is the Beta 2 twice as big as Beta 1? -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Hi, 2010/10/19 Xi Embalsado newecrea...@hotmail.com: Sorry for typing that (I was too excited for the RTM version). I have a question... Why is the Beta 2 twice as big as Beta 1? It contains about fifty languages for the UI. Regards Volker -- ++ Volker Merschmann - ODF-Software Contributor -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 07:49 -0400, Charles Marcus wrote: ... how about making suggestions for how to improve things going forward and stop complaining about what is already done? IIRC, several people have suggested some small changes to the current website that would make a significant improvement in the experience for ordinary users while waiting for the improved website. I am not complaining here about those changes not being done (the people who could were asleep during most of the conversation), but my point is people HAVE been making suggestions. --Jean -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
RE: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Sorry... I'm new here and my inbox is getting to be 700 messages filled up. -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On 2010-10-19 8:11 AM, Xi Embalsado wrote: WOW! I could never fit a size 50 to a size 2! Well at least don't go to the Microsoft Office size (600MB) Better make things in separate languages. Sorry for some big comments there... What would make more sense to me is to make one installer with maybe 3 or 4 of the most popular languages included, then allow the install process to connect to the internet to download the desired language pack if a different language is selected. -- Best regards, Charles -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On 2010-10-19 8:12 AM, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 07:49 -0400, Charles Marcus wrote: ... how about making suggestions for how to improve things going forward and stop complaining about what is already done? IIRC, several people have suggested some small changes to the current website that would make a significant improvement in the experience for ordinary users while waiting for the improved website. I am not complaining here about those changes not being done (the people who could were asleep during most of the conversation), but my point is people HAVE been making suggestions. U... I know that (I'm one of them - we really, really *really* need a proper 'Support' page where the lists etc reside)? My comment was directed at the two individuals who were complaining loudly and repeatedly. -- Best regards, Charles -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On Oct 19, 2010, at 13:49 , Charles Marcus wrote: ... This isn't productive... how about making suggestions for how to improve things going forward and stop complaining about what is already done? (from the original post) Action point 1: redirect TDF to LibO and not vice versa or have TDF as a 'corporate' site. On reflection leave this as is, but make it clearer on Action point 2: Rename 'Supporters' to 'Admirers of what we're doing'. Action point 3: Rename 'Contribute' to 'Support'. Move Users to the top of the lists list. But see below. Action point 4: Put a redirect on the libreoffice.org site to libreofficeforum.org. Or better yet, sink libreofficeforum.org altogether, and use forum.libreoffice.org. Action point 5: Let the list system fade out, or at least move it down the priorities for user support. I know there are people in here who live in the Unix world - I did myself once - and use text-only email readers, and who therefore prefer mailing lists, but ordinary users don't like them. So keep and monitor the lists, but plug the forum. -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On Oct 19, 2010, at 13:49 , Charles Marcus wrote: ... This isn't productive... how about making suggestions for how to improve things going forward and stop complaining about what is already done? Better still, kill the conversation in here, as has been suggested twice now, and continue it - if it hasn't been done to death already - in website, where the web jockeys hang out who can do something about it. //James -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On 10/18/2010 11:38 PM, Drew Jensen wrote: On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 17:09 +1300, Paul A Norman wrote: Yep I've had two confirmtatoin that I have left the list and still the emails come rolling Does this constitute nuisnace email now? Paul Sure - you click on reply to the confirmation emails - because that is what it is doing, confirming that you wanted to leave - after you reply to that you get one that says Good-bye from ... Just tried unsubscribing my account here and it quit sending emails - after I replied to the confirmation request, as I said above. If you would like to monitor what is happening here in the future you may want a web interface to the mailing lists - I will be leaving this page up http://oucv.org/tdf.html Sincerely, Drew Drew, your page is a very neat tie-in to the Nabble version of the list, and should provide everything somebody needs to follow (and continue contributing to) their own thread without necessarily subscribing to the list. This is wonderful! I vote for it to be part of the official support mechanism. -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Hi, James Wilde schrieb: There is also a forum. How I'm going to find that there is a libreofficeforum.org I don't know. Maybe it's referenced somewhere. I think there was a link on the Contribute page, alongside the link to 'some lists'. However, the forum address should be forum.libreoffice.org, so that one can get there from libreoffice.org, via a link at the top, saying Forum. Well, there have been doubts, if it makes sense to open yet another forum, since the existing forums are all community driven and support OOo and all of its derivates as well. Stefan -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On 10/18/2010 03:23 AM, Stefan Weigel wrote: Hi, James Wilde schrieb: There is also a forum. How I'm going to find that there is a libreofficeforum.org I don't know. Maybe it's referenced somewhere. I think there was a link on the Contribute page, alongside the link to 'some lists'. However, the forum address should be forum.libreoffice.org, so that one can get there from libreoffice.org, via a link at the top, saying Forum. Well, there have been doubts, if it makes sense to open yet another forum, since the existing forums are all community driven and support OOo and all of its derivates as well. Stefan In this case, shouldn't there be links to these other forums? Chris Carpenter P.S. Might try having this discussion in the website mailing list -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Hi, Chris Carpenter schrieb: Well, there have been doubts, if it makes sense to open yet another forum, since the existing forums are all community driven and support OOo and all of its derivates as well. In this case, shouldn't there be links to these other forums? Sure. But I think, this is work in progress, as it is for linking to documentation and any other form of user support. Generally, I assume the whole website thing is a temporary solution and some people are working intensively on a CMS solution. Stefan -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Please, James is right - it is very very difficult as just a User to find your way around - I've said it a couple of times, and it is really really true. Paul On 18 October 2010 22:34, Stefan Weigel stefan.wei...@bildungskreis.org wrote: Hi, Chris Carpenter schrieb: Well, there have been doubts, if it makes sense to open yet another forum, since the existing forums are all community driven and support OOo and all of its derivates as well. In this case, shouldn't there be links to these other forums? Sure. But I think, this is work in progress, as it is for linking to documentation and any other form of user support. Generally, I assume the whole website thing is a temporary solution and some people are working intensively on a CMS solution. Stefan -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Hi, Paul A Norman schrieb: Please, James is right I didn´t say he´s wrong. Stefan -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Hi, 2010/10/18 Charles Marcus cmar...@media-brokers.com: On 2010-10-18 3:38 AM, James Wilde wrote: Action point 5: Let the list system fade out, or at least move it down the priorities for user support. I know there are people in here who live in the Unix world - I did myself once - and use text-only email readers, and who therefore prefer mailing lists, but ordinary users don't like them. So keep and monitor the lists, but plug the forum. Best would be to find some way to integrate a decent forum platform with a decent mail list manager... I believe that Mailman3 will support such a beast, but I haven't had much luck finding anything other than a lot of threads about custom plugins and such... yes, indeed, Mailman does support something like a mailinglist-forum-bridge. I am also involved in the new Mageia distribution and one of the participants there has for test purposes created such a forum-mailinglist gateway. You can read his introduction to the forum and the link to it in this email: http://www.mail-archive.com/mageia-disc...@mageia.org/msg01602.html I'm sure he would be willing to help out a bit - if asked nicely. ;) Sigrid -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On 2010-10-18 10:07 AM, Sigrid Carrera wrote: yes, indeed, Mailman does support something like a mailinglist-forum-bridge. I am also involved in the new Mageia distribution and one of the participants there has for test purposes created such a forum-mailinglist gateway. You can read his introduction to the forum and the link to it in this email: http://www.mail-archive.com/mageia-disc...@mageia.org/msg01602.html I'm sure he would be willing to help out a bit - if asked nicely. ;) Looks interesting, thanks Sigrid... :) -- Best regards, Charles -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
All of you folks that are running this show had better start thinking about what the USERS need's are, or pretty soon you are going to turn around and find that most of your users have left. I have been using OOo for almost as long as it has been available and have told many people about it. But right now I am TOTALLY CONFUSED ABOUT JUST EXACTLY WHAT, WHERE, WHY, WHEN, AND HOW of anything about OOo versus LibreOffice, or whatever the hell it is. All concerns seem to be around the foundation, not the software and its users The TDF exists for the development of the software, AND the users of the software, and it really appears to me the folks running the TDF have completely lost sight of that!!! Practically everything on the TDF web page is about people; hardly anything there about the software and what is taking place as OOo moves to LibreOffice - I guess that is what is happening??? I am what I think would be referred to as a typical user - someone who found an excellent Microsoft Office replacement and enjoys using it. And has been thankful for the assistance, fixes, and upgrades that have been available along the way. But, as I said, I am sitting here, out in the country outside a small town in Texas, and am totally confused about just where everything is You folks need to get all your Aggies in a row, and get back to supporting your users!!! Roxy Robinson - a totally confused 68 year old user Please, James is right - it is very very difficult as just a User to find your way around - I've said it a couple of times, and it is really really true. Paul On 18 October 2010 22:34, Stefan Weigel stefan.wei...@bildungskreis.org wrote: Hi, Chris Carpenter schrieb: Well, there have been doubts, if it makes sense to open yet another forum, since the existing forums are all community driven and support OOo and all of its derivates as well. In this case, shouldn't there be links to these other forums? Sure. But I think, this is work in progress, as it is for linking to documentation and any other form of user support. Generally, I assume the whole website thing is a temporary solution and some people are working intensively on a CMS solution. Stefan -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Hi Þann mán 18.okt 2010 15:08, skrifaði Roxy Robinson: All of you folks that are running this show had better start thinking about what the USERS need's are, or pretty soon you are going to turn around and find that most of your users have left. I have been using OOo for almost as long as it has been available and have told many people about it. But right now I am TOTALLY CONFUSED ABOUT JUST EXACTLY WHAT, WHERE, WHY, WHEN, AND HOW of anything about OOo versus LibreOffice, or whatever the hell it is. Please don't shout, we get the message. Technically there are not yet any normal LibreOffice users; there's not yet any official release, only a beta. But I totally agree with the concerns about future layout of user-services and feedback. These should be addressed quickly and be in place before the official release, but it's critical to organise those efforts to avoid duplicate work and loss of focus. I think there should be a dedicated LO-team for implementing and organising help for users, working closely with other teams like the documentation- and web/wiki-teams. Maybe a sort of user-ombudsmen which would be in charge of scrutinising things like web-navigation, UI-navigation, helpcontent etc. - for the benefit of their clients; plain users. (maybe too dramatic here - sorry) All concerns seem to be around the foundation, not the software and its users The TDF exists for the development of the software, AND the users of the software, and it really appears to me the folks running the TDF have completely lost sight of that!!! Practically everything on the TDF web page is about people; hardly anything there about the software and what is taking place as OOo moves to LibreOffice - I guess that is what is happening??? I am what I think would be referred to as a typical user - someone who found an excellent Microsoft Office replacement and enjoys using it. And has been thankful for the assistance, fixes, and upgrades that have been available along the way. But, as I said, I am sitting here, out in the country outside a small town in Texas, and am totally confused about just where everything is You folks need to get all your Aggies in a row, and get back to supporting your users!!! Roxy Robinson - a totally confused 68 year old user You just made it from being a totally confused 68 year old user to being a participant in the project - thank you ;-) Please, James is right - it is very very difficult as just a User to find your way around - I've said it a couple of times, and it is really really true. I think that it would be beneficial to launch a new thread on user-services, navigation and user-feedback in order to find a good structure and basic organisation. Even if things like wikis have for nature to auto-organise themselves, a good basic structure can speed up creation of their content. Just some thoughts, Sveinn í Felli Paul On 18 October 2010 22:34, Stefan Weigelstefan.wei...@bildungskreis.org wrote: Hi, Chris Carpenter schrieb: Well, there have been doubts, if it makes sense to open yet another forum, since the existing forums are all community driven and support OOo and all of its derivates as well. In this case, shouldn't there be links to these other forums? Sure. But I think, this is work in progress, as it is for linking to documentation and any other form of user support. Generally, I assume the whole website thing is a temporary solution and some people are working intensively on a CMS solution. Stefan -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Le 2010-10-18 10:07, Sigrid Carrera a écrit : Hi, 2010/10/18 Charles Marcuscmar...@media-brokers.com: On 2010-10-18 3:38 AM, James Wilde wrote: Action point 5: Let the list system fade out, or at least move it down the priorities for user support. I know there are people in here who live in the Unix world - I did myself once - and use text-only email readers, and who therefore prefer mailing lists, but ordinary users don't like them. So keep and monitor the lists, but plug the forum. Best would be to find some way to integrate a decent forum platform with a decent mail list manager... I believe that Mailman3 will support such a beast, but I haven't had much luck finding anything other than a lot of threads about custom plugins and such... yes, indeed, Mailman does support something like a mailinglist-forum-bridge. I am also involved in the new Mageia distribution and one of the participants there has for test purposes created such a forum-mailinglist gateway. You can read his introduction to the forum and the link to it in this email: http://www.mail-archive.com/mageia-disc...@mageia.org/msg01602.html I'm sure he would be willing to help out a bit - if asked nicely. ;) Sigrid Thanks Sigrid, I was exactly going to recommend the same thing. I am also part of the Mageia marketing team and a lot of the mailist/forums problems are similar for both groups. It may be a good idea to team up with the Mageia people who are in charge and compare notes just for the sake of expediency. Marc -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Please don't shout, we get the message. If I had been shouting the entire message would have been all caps. I was using all caps for EMPHASIS! Technically there are not yet any normal LibreOffice users; there's not yet any official release, only a beta. Is this not hoped to be a move of all the current OOo users to become users of LO? If so, then there is already millions of normal users. But I totally agree with the concerns about future layout of user-services and feedback. Rather than having an opening web page that seems to be mostly concerned with introducing people and their qualifications, missions and goals, there should be more information about what has taken place in regard to the WHAT, WHERE, WHY, WHEN, AND HOW of this move from OOo to LO. Are both continuing? It sounds that way in some of the discussions, with some members on both groups. There also needs to be more and better installation instructions. Does LO go over OOo? Do they install separately? Does the installation of LO create a directory within its installation called program_old, like my last upgrade installation of OOo did? I believe the cart is out there, not before the horse, but completely without a horse! You just made it from being a totally confused 68 year old user to being a participant in the project - thank you ;-) I have participated in the project, off and on, every since the day I started using OOo about 9 years ago. But I AM still a totally confused 68 year old user. Roxy Robinson -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:25:52 -0400, Charles Marcus cmar...@media-brokers.com wrote: Best would be to find some way to integrate a decent forum platform with a decent mail list manager... The nabble forums are rather easy to integrate in a website and provide seamless integration with a mailinglist. TDF mail archives are for example here: http://unofficial-document-foundation-mail-archive.969070.n3.nabble.com/ Sebastian -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On Mon, 2010-10-18 at 21:15 +0200, Sebastian Spaeth wrote: On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:25:52 -0400, Charles Marcus cmar...@media-brokers.com wrote: Best would be to find some way to integrate a decent forum platform with a decent mail list manager... The nabble forums are rather easy to integrate in a website and provide seamless integration with a mailinglist. TDF mail archives are for example here: http://unofficial-document-foundation-mail-archive.969070.n3.nabble.com/ I have a bit of a mashup page started with the nabbel archives embedded and google custom search box for the main site, the wiki and the mails - just putting in a final search feature for the extended oo.o forums The work in progress is found at http://oucv.org/tdf.html Sebastian -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On 2010-10-18 3:15 PM, Sebastian Spaeth wrote: On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 09:25:52 -0400, Charles Marcus cmar...@media-brokers.com wrote: Best would be to find some way to integrate a decent forum platform with a decent mail list manager... The nabble forums are rather easy to integrate in a website and provide seamless integration with a mailinglist. TDF mail archives are for example here: http://unofficial-document-foundation-mail-archive.969070.n3.nabble.com/ Interesting... Maybe this, along with some decent search capability - including some pre-filters that the user could select, ie, 'Writer', 'Calc', etc, to help them narrow their search, and lastly with some kind of automated feedback mechanism for non-subscriber postings similar to how the nntp gateway works (you post, you get an email confirmation, once you confirm, you're allowed to post from that email address for a limited time) would be the way to go... Wish I could help with the heavy lifting, but sadly ianap... -- Best regards, Charles -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 04:12:35PM +, Sveinn � Felli wrote: .humongous snip.. I think that it would be beneficial to launch a new thread on user-services, navigation and user-feedback in order to find a good structure and basic organisation. Even if things like wikis have for nature to auto-organise themselves, a good basic structure can speed up creation of their content. I thought there was a users list. -- Bob Holtzman Key ID: 8D549279 If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
I believe if it had been me: establish the main steering committee, while at the same time get the website set up. Then, before ever issuing - especially a BETA VERSION - software, I would use the website to introduce the WHAT, WHERE, WHY, WHEN, AND HOW of the new organization. Why it exists, what brought it on, etc. I had fears that when Oracle completed their take over that would be the end of OOo, and maybe it still will be. But you folks know most of those things and there should be a central location where I can go to come to a fuller understanding of what is going on. And then, the final step would be to release the new, finished version of LO! With all the introductions, instructions, etc, that all of us out here need to know - what to expect. Is it a replacement of OOo? Does it run side by side? What do I need to do to get it installed correctly? But, come on, release a BETA VERSION, and we don't even know what the hell is going on yet! Roxy Robinson Hi Roxy, all! Am Montag, den 18.10.2010, 10:08 -0500 schrieb Roxy Robinson: All concerns seem to be around the foundation, not the software and its users Short answer: Yes. And no. Long answer ... The concerns are the foundation, the software and its users. But how to satisfy user needs without software. How to develop software on a broader basis without the new organizational model? One fundamental issue of each project is limited resources - so you have to focus, independent of the size of your team. One solution is to do things step by step. Our current aim is to create and to promote a solid platform for product development as fast as possible. Without forgetting the other parties. Like you :-) Having everything in place, e.g. the new CMS based website, we can easily share responsibility with those who want to develop a user oriented structure of the website. And I'm part of that team, for sure. Then, we'll be able to provide optimized web content for e.g. libreoffice.org (that still shows the same content like documentfoundation.org). Until we have reached the corresponding sub-goal, we really rely on your (user) support and your experience. Please guide users on mailing lists, point them to blogs, or even slightly adapt the current website (please announce it in advance). Cheers, Christoph PS: I agree, that the current front page of the website is a mess :-) -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On 10/18/2010 01:58 PM, Roxy Robinson wrote: I believe if it had been me: establish the main steering committee, while at the same time get the website set up. Then, before ever issuing - especially a BETA VERSION - software, I would use the website to introduce the WHAT, WHERE, WHY, WHEN, AND HOW of the new organization. Why it exists, what brought it on, etc. I had fears that when Oracle completed their take over that would be the end of OOo, and maybe it still will be. But you folks know most of those things and there should be a central location where I can go to come to a fuller understanding of what is going on. And then, the final step would be to release the new, finished version of LO! I disagree -- I think the steering committee has shown good prioritization. To establish immediate technical credibility of the new TDF, it's much more important to release a quality beta product than to set up the legalities of the foundation, its website, or the interface to the users. This shows that TDF means business, and has the backing of developers to make this happen. Without the beta, all you have is a bunch of hot air on a website. I think we can exercise some patience in waiting for the mechanics of the foundation to be set up, determine how membership is granted, decide how donations will be handled, establish the relationship to OOo, etc. In the meantime, since we have the beta out there, the developer's list can (and has) catch on fire with people submitting patches against the beta. We are really hitting the ground running! Jon -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Well, you can think what you want to think and I, as just a common every day, 9 year user of OOo, will think what I want to think. Your thoughts went way beyond what I said needed to be done, anyway. To release any software, beta or otherwise, with the support/instruction function in place, is stupid! IMHO!!! Roxy Robinson On 10/18/2010 01:58 PM, Roxy Robinson wrote: I believe if it had been me: establish the main steering committee, while at the same time get the website set up. Then, before ever issuing - especially a BETA VERSION - software, I would use the website to introduce the WHAT, WHERE, WHY, WHEN, AND HOW of the new organization. Why it exists, what brought it on, etc. I had fears that when Oracle completed their take over that would be the end of OOo, and maybe it still will be. But you folks know most of those things and there should be a central location where I can go to come to a fuller understanding of what is going on. And then, the final step would be to release the new, finished version of LO! I disagree -- I think the steering committee has shown good prioritization. To establish immediate technical credibility of the new TDF, it's much more important to release a quality beta product than to set up the legalities of the foundation, its website, or the interface to the users. This shows that TDF means business, and has the backing of developers to make this happen. Without the beta, all you have is a bunch of hot air on a website. I think we can exercise some patience in waiting for the mechanics of the foundation to be set up, determine how membership is granted, decide how donations will be handled, establish the relationship to OOo, etc. In the meantime, since we have the beta out there, the developer's list can (and has) catch on fire with people submitting patches against the beta. We are really hitting the ground running! Jon -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On Mon Oct 18 2010 15:00:59 GMT-0700 (PDT) Roxy Robinson wrote: Well, you can think what you want to think and I, as just a common every day, 9 year user of OOo, will think what I want to think. Your thoughts went way beyond what I said needed to be done, anyway. To release any software, beta or otherwise, with the support/instruction function in place, is stupid! IMHO!!! Roxy Robinson Not trying to put words in your mouth, so to speak, but I think you intended without instead of with. Which I agree with. There should have been better planing on several levels. Andy -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Thanks, Andy, I did mean without, of course. I do that quite often, because I think ahead of what I type. Too often, too far ahead. Roxy On Mon Oct 18 2010 15:00:59 GMT-0700 (PDT) Roxy Robinson wrote: Well, you can think what you want to think and I, as just a common every day, 9 year user of OOo, will think what I want to think. Your thoughts went way beyond what I said needed to be done, anyway. To release any software, beta or otherwise, with the support/instruction function in place, is stupid! IMHO!!! Roxy Robinson Not trying to put words in your mouth, so to speak, but I think you intended without instead of with. Which I agree with. There should have been better planing on several levels. Andy -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On 10/18/2010 03:00 PM, Roxy Robinson wrote: Well, you can think what you want to think and I, as just a common every day, 9 year user of OOo, will think what I want to think. Your thoughts went way beyond what I said needed to be done, anyway. To release any software, beta or otherwise, [without] the support/instruction function in place, is stupid! IMHO!!! (Roxy, please quote properly, so people won't get confused about who said what. Thanks.) Well, you have a pretty strong opinion for it being humble. I don't think anyone here is stupid, least of all the organizers and developers of TDF. That's just rude. They are doing an awesome job. I guess we'll agree to disagree. Also, it seems you are attempting to establish reputation by touting 9 years usage, or perhaps I am misunderstanding your reason for mentioning it? Does this matter? I don't think it does, but if you want to have that contest please realize that I have been using StarOffice/OOo for a few years longer than you -- I forget when StarDivision starting making it available free for personal use, 1998, I think. It's beta software, so there should be no expectation that a common user would be installing it -- there is a warning on the site that says it's not for production use. The point I think is to send a message that LibO is going to make the rubber hit the road, right out of the gate. Considering all of the vaporware out there, I think that LibO is off to an awesome start. And, it worked -- it got the community going. The beta was downloaded 80 000 times in the first week, and the developer list is going gang-busters on patches. I consider this a wild success so far. Jon -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
p.s. The Swiss have, through the centuries, developed a real sense of checks and balances in participatory decession making porocesses that really efficently get things done in a way that they feel satisfied their goals and aims are being met. I'll rest on this now - I hope that it helps any one who is contemplating these issues. Paul On 19 October 2010 12:16, Paul A Norman paul.a.nor...@gmail.com wrote: I personally realsie and appreciate that a lot of focuus has been on the divorce from Oracle. But there is an old saying that the seed that is sown in the ground is the seed that grows. Turn things around from leaving Oracle - getting the community together and refocuss in short order on why you have seperated from Oracle - to be in a position to be able to do a better job. And now focuss on what that better job is. You have highly talkanted developers amongst you - that hardly needs to be a better job it is very well done already - itds the overall product if I may use that word, and servicing your clientelle. That is the future. But if that is not at heart now, then the seed that will be growing into a onster tree is a movement about not being under an awful ogre (any number of corporations). The new community is by any definition a corporation (a body corporate) jsut not a private profit making one The questoin is what sort of corpoation will it become, and what does it exist for? Just some thoughts. 1. Quality customer service 2. Decission making porocesses that really utilise client feedback 3. UI development that really takes User experience and concerns to the heart of decission making 4. Feature devlopment and external process integration that leads the field and pre-empts clients' needs 5. Care for its own members professional and skill cultivation to meet these sorts of aims. 6. Unashamedly adopt policies, mandates, and leadership structures and review processes that facilitate the development and implementaton of the various component parts of the project(s) 7. Elect leaders for fixed terms (what ever) find a mechanism to move forward with out having to have a refunrendum on every single point great and small 8 Recognise and Give real places to people in needed expertese areas who are not dvelopers as such! Paul On 19 October 2010 11:45, Jon Hamkins hamk...@alumni.caltech.edu wrote: On 10/18/2010 03:00 PM, Roxy Robinson wrote: Well, you can think what you want to think and I, as just a common every day, 9 year user of OOo, will think what I want to think. Your thoughts went way beyond what I said needed to be done, anyway. To release any software, beta or otherwise, [without] the support/instruction function in place, is stupid! IMHO!!! (Roxy, please quote properly, so people won't get confused about who said what. Thanks.) Well, you have a pretty strong opinion for it being humble. I don't think anyone here is stupid, least of all the organizers and developers of TDF. That's just rude. They are doing an awesome job. I guess we'll agree to disagree. Also, it seems you are attempting to establish reputation by touting 9 years usage, or perhaps I am misunderstanding your reason for mentioning it? Does this matter? I don't think it does, but if you want to have that contest please realize that I have been using StarOffice/OOo for a few years longer than you -- I forget when StarDivision starting making it available free for personal use, 1998, I think. It's beta software, so there should be no expectation that a common user would be installing it -- there is a warning on the site that says it's not for production use. The point I think is to send a message that LibO is going to make the rubber hit the road, right out of the gate. Considering all of the vaporware out there, I think that LibO is off to an awesome start. And, it worked -- it got the community going. The beta was downloaded 80 000 times in the first week, and the developer list is going gang-busters on patches. I consider this a wild success so far. Jon -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
I was saying I have been using OOo 9 years - and actually when I start counting its probably a year or 2 longer - only because I have used it exclusively as my office program. I'm not trying to establish a reputation for anything except for being a bit dissatisfied with the way things are going right now. Are these the same, or different folks, that are supposed to be bringing forth an OOo 3.3? If not, what happened to it? As I said previously, I already knew of the Oracle takeover of Sun through one of the several computer related newsletters I subscribe to. When I heard that it bothered me a little in regard to whether OOo would continue to be available or not. And then out of the blue I get an email announcing LibreOffice, and that the first beta is available for download. Yeah, it says it shouldn't be considered to be ready for production. My first thought is what the heck happened to the next release of OOo that they had been talking about. Is this a replacement product with another name? Go to the website for the download and there is really no information there explaining what the heck is going on. So I go ahead and download LO while I am there. Only later to find out - no this isn't an upgrade to OOo; its another product. But I guess, similar to OOo? And, I will guarantee you there are a ton of other folks out here with the same questions I had/have!!! I know all the folks tha t I've introduced to OOo over the years have them. And TDF may be doing an outstanding job - but I don't see it They sent me the link to the download, but I'm certainly not a beta tester. So I'm still pretty much in the dark on what to expect. And, yes, I do have a fairly strong opinion about that, but that does not mean it is not an humble one! Roxy Robinson On 10/18/2010 03:00 PM, Roxy Robinson wrote: Well, you can think what you want to think and I, as just a common every day, 9 year user of OOo, will think what I want to think. Your thoughts went way beyond what I said needed to be done, anyway. To release any software, beta or otherwise, [without] the support/instruction function in place, is stupid! IMHO!!! (Roxy, please quote properly, so people won't get confused about who said what. Thanks.) Well, you have a pretty strong opinion for it being humble. I don't think anyone here is stupid, least of all the organizers and developers of TDF. That's just rude. They are doing an awesome job. I guess we'll agree to disagree. Also, it seems you are attempting to establish reputation by touting 9 years usage, or perhaps I am misunderstanding your reason for mentioning it? Does this matter? I don't think it does, but if you want to have that contest please realize that I have been using StarOffice/OOo for a few years longer than you -- I forget when StarDivision starting making it available free for personal use, 1998, I think. It's beta software, so there should be no expectation that a common user would be installing it -- there is a warning on the site that says it's not for production use. The point I think is to send a message that LibO is going to make the rubber hit the road, right out of the gate. Considering all of the vaporware out there, I think that LibO is off to an awesome start. And, it worked -- it got the community going. The beta was downloaded 80 000 times in the first week, and the developer list is going gang-busters on patches. I consider this a wild success so far. Jon -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On 10/18/2010 07:27 PM, Roxy Robinson wrote: You just don't get it - the web page is the problem. There is nothing there to learn. Is there something you are trying to find out? I am willing to help you learn the answers. Jon -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Thanks Roxy, Yes that it what I got too and used to try and unsubscribe but still the emails keep rolling in. I used the approriate thing for the other hidden list I was herded onto abruptely as well. One of the ones that you could not find by yourself, it was after all only the Users' Help list - who needed to find that any way? Paul On 19 October 2010 15:45, Roxy Robinson rocma...@ranchwireless.com wrote: Paul, Here is what I was sent when I subscribed. Welcome! You have been subscribed to the discuss@documentfoundation.org mailinglist. To unsubscribe send a message to: discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Roxy Dear Roxy, I've given up, and have delisted from all LiBO stuff for now, and have taken LiBO off and I am putting Oracle's OOO on again for now until if/there is a change of heart on how LiBO is run. I had some real issues with the Writer/Web html format and functionality, and I can't believe how my postings were handled on help+user list. I was even asked why I was using LiBO for making web forms and not some other FOSS, yet the person coiuld not name to me another WYSIWYG html designer for Xp. Al I was doing was what LiBO says it will do, and I wanted to help them debug the Beta where it was not saving things properly. I've been in unsalaried community work for nearly 30 years now and know that even though you do things for free, you still have to have a service attitude in your heart. I think that seems to be misisng somewhere with some of the LiBO carry on. This message won't even be on the list as I de-listed. Paul On 19 October 2010 14:45, Roxy Robinson rocma...@ranchwireless.com wrote: I was saying I have been using OOo 9 years - and actually when I start counting its probably a year or 2 longer - only because I have used it exclusively as my office program. I'm not trying to establish a reputation for anything except for being a bit dissatisfied with the way things are going right now. Are these the same, or different folks, that are supposed to be bringing forth an OOo 3.3? If not, what happened to it? As I said previously, I already knew of the Oracle takeover of Sun through one of the several computer related newsletters I subscribe to. When I heard that it bothered me a little in regard to whether OOo would continue to be available or not. And then out of the blue I get an email announcing LibreOffice, and that the first beta is available for download. Yeah, it says it shouldn't be considered to be ready for production. My first thought is what the heck happened to the next release of OOo that they had been talking about. Is this a replacement product with another name? Go to the website for the download and there is really no information there explaining what the heck is going on. So I go ahead and download LO while I am there. Only later to find out - no this isn't an upgrade to OOo; its another product. But I guess, similar to OOo? And, I will guarantee you there are a ton of other folks out here with the same questions I had/have!!! I know all the folks tha t I've introduced to OOo over the years have them. And TDF may be doing an outstanding job - but I don't see it They sent me the link to the download, but I'm certainly not a beta tester. So I'm still pretty much in the dark on what to expect. And, yes, I do have a fairly strong opinion about that, but that does not mean it is not an humble one! Roxy Robinson On 10/18/2010 03:00 PM, Roxy Robinson wrote: Well, you can think what you want to think and I, as just a common every day, 9 year user of OOo, will think what I want to think. Your thoughts went way beyond what I said needed to be done, anyway. To release any software, beta or otherwise, [without] the support/instruction function in place, is stupid! IMHO!!! (Roxy, please quote properly, so people won't get confused about who said what. Thanks.) Well, you have a pretty strong opinion for it being humble. I don't think anyone here is stupid, least of all the organizers and developers of TDF. That's just rude. They are doing an awesome job. I guess we'll agree to disagree. Also, it seems you are attempting to establish reputation by touting 9 years usage, or perhaps I am misunderstanding your reason for mentioning it? Does this matter? I don't think it does, but if you want to have that contest please realize that I have been using StarOffice/OOo for a few years longer than you -- I forget when StarDivision starting making it available free for personal use, 1998, I think. It's beta software, so there should be no expectation that a common user would be installing it -- there is a warning on the site that says it's not for production use. The point I think is to send a message that LibO is going to make the rubber hit the road, right out of the gate. Considering all of the vaporware out there, I think that LibO is off to an awesome start.
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On 10/18/2010 08:07 PM, Roxy Robinson wrote: I have been learning most of the answers through this email list, which is, of course, the reason I joined it in the first place. Because there wasn't anything to learn on the web page. But now my inbox is inundated with mail, and I shouldn't have had to subscribe to this crazy list to find out what is going on between OOo and LO. The amount of mail on this list would be overwhelming to a lot of users looking for answers. Which would probably turn them off to LO right off the bat. I know it has me, at least for now. Maybe by the time there is an actual product called LibreOffice, y'all will have figured out that I'm not the only one that would like to know a little about what all is going on with Oracle/OOo/LO. And it would be better to learn about all that just by reading it from a web page rather than having a mailbox running over. Like someone else has already said in one of the emails about all that there is on the web page is a lot of self praising, back patting, and a tt a boys. I understand you are disappointed by the website, but you started by saying, I will guarantee you there are a ton of other folks out here with the same questions I had/have!! I'm glad that at least the mailing list is answering them. That's one good thing, right? Eventually, the website will be improved -- and substantially so, before the first official stable release of LibO. Please be patient -- we are very early in this process! Jon -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On 10/18/2010 08:11 PM, Paul A Norman wrote: Hidden under Contribute on their current front paghe they ahve weay down some where some lists - who knows there might even be a more appropriate list. I was told off for trying to report a fault in the beta 2 here and told to go to the User's Help list as if I could have found that by myself from their front page? Yes, click on contribute from the front page of the TDF website, and all the mailing lists are listed there, including the users list. (Perhaps it didn't used to be so, when you last looked.) Jon -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Still getting email even though I've had two confirmed unsubscribed(s) Jon, I really liek you trying to help - but please is it worth defending the indefensible? For a memeber of the public would they ever guess that Contriubte means Help Availabel Here Don't defend community actions when they are wrong, or you will all end up in a dead end. Paul On 19 October 2010 16:26, Jon Hamkins hamk...@alumni.caltech.edu wrote: On 10/18/2010 08:11 PM, Paul A Norman wrote: Hidden under Contribute on their current front paghe they ahve weay down some where some lists - who knows there might even be a more appropriate list. I was told off for trying to report a fault in the beta 2 here and told to go to the User's Help list as if I could have found that by myself from their front page? Yes, click on contribute from the front page of the TDF website, and all the mailing lists are listed there, including the users list. (Perhaps it didn't used to be so, when you last looked.) Jon -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Thanks Jean, I really appreciate that you probably did not realise how frustrated quite a few Users are when being told you should be on a list that should actually have been all too obvious to you - but you could never find on the web page. A list that is supposed to guide you to help and you can;t ewven find it, then some one tells you that you are on the wrong list and should be on that other one you always wanted to have found any way? Can you all yet see it form the point of view of the potential millions of people who might like to use LiBO on day? I hope so. Paul On 19 October 2010 16:58, Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 16:11 +1300, Paul A Norman wrote: Hidden under Contribute on their current front paghe they ahve weay down some where some lists - who knows there might even be a more appropriate list. I was told off for trying to report a fault in the beta 2 here and told to go to the User's Help list as if I could have found that by myself from their front page? Excuse me, you were not told off -- I believe I was the first person to suggest the other list as it is usually more appropriate for solving users' problems. I am sorry if you misunderstood my comment, or if others have been rude to you. I agree with you that the ways of directing users to appropriate support and bug-reporting places need serious improvement. --Jean -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
As I said previously, if I am hollering I will have an entire sentence/thought/paragraph in all caps. And since not all email programs will accept text that is bold, underlined, colored, or italicized I will continue to use all caps for emphasis, especially since that only includes a word or 2. But you need not worry about having to read any more all caps words from me as I'm (trying) to leave the list! Roxy Robinson g'day Roxy - from one 68 year old to another similar - This limited technology that we use to communicate through provides no means for indicating when upper case text is shouting and when it's emphasing - Sadly one doesn't have to follow threads like this one for very long to realise that many/most posts are cases of people talking past each other rather than speaking to each other. In the hope that you read this rather than being something being sent past you then how about avoiding capitalising stuff in future to avoid the possibility of being interpretted as shouting? cheers Mike Moller Lallybroch Alpacas New Zealand www.lallybroch.co.nz On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Roxy Robinson rocma...@ranchwireless.comwrote: Please don't shout, we get the message. If I had been shouting the entire message would have been all caps. I was using all caps for EMPHASIS! Technically there are not yet any normal LibreOffice users; there's not yet any official release, only a beta. Is this not hoped to be a move of all the current OOo users to become users of LO? If so, then there is already millions of normal users. But I totally agree with the concerns about future layout of user-services and feedback. Rather than having an opening web page that seems to be mostly concerned with introducing people and their qualifications, missions and goals, there should be more information about what has taken place in regard to the WHAT, WHERE, WHY, WHEN, AND HOW of this move from OOo to LO. Are both continuing? It sounds that way in some of the discussions, with some members on both groups. There also needs to be more and better installation instructions. Does LO go over OOo? Do they install separately? Does the installation of LO create a directory within its installation called program_old, like my last upgrade installation of OOo did? I believe the cart is out there, not before the horse, but completely without a horse! You just made it from being a totally confused 68 year old user to being a participant in the project - thank you ;-) I have participated in the project, off and on, every since the day I started using OOo about 9 years ago. But I AM still a totally confused 68 year old user. Roxy Robinson -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.orgfor instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
Yep I've had two confirmtatoin that I have left the list and still the emails come rolling Does this constitute nuisnace email now? Paul On 19 October 2010 17:06, Roxy Robinson rocma...@ranchwireless.com wrote: As I said previously, if I am hollering I will have an entire sentence/thought/paragraph in all caps. And since not all email programs will accept text that is bold, underlined, colored, or italicized I will continue to use all caps for emphasis, especially since that only includes a word or 2. But you need not worry about having to read any more all caps words from me as I'm (trying) to leave the list! Roxy Robinson g'day Roxy - from one 68 year old to another similar - This limited technology that we use to communicate through provides no means for indicating when upper case text is shouting and when it's emphasing - Sadly one doesn't have to follow threads like this one for very long to realise that many/most posts are cases of people talking past each other rather than speaking to each other. In the hope that you read this rather than being something being sent past you then how about avoiding capitalising stuff in future to avoid the possibility of being interpretted as shouting? cheers Mike Moller Lallybroch Alpacas New Zealand www.lallybroch.co.nz On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 6:29 AM, Roxy Robinson rocma...@ranchwireless.comwrote: Please don't shout, we get the message. If I had been shouting the entire message would have been all caps. I was using all caps for EMPHASIS! Technically there are not yet any normal LibreOffice users; there's not yet any official release, only a beta. Is this not hoped to be a move of all the current OOo users to become users of LO? If so, then there is already millions of normal users. But I totally agree with the concerns about future layout of user-services and feedback. Rather than having an opening web page that seems to be mostly concerned with introducing people and their qualifications, missions and goals, there should be more information about what has taken place in regard to the WHAT, WHERE, WHY, WHEN, AND HOW of this move from OOo to LO. Are both continuing? It sounds that way in some of the discussions, with some members on both groups. There also needs to be more and better installation instructions. Does LO go over OOo? Do they install separately? Does the installation of LO create a directory within its installation called program_old, like my last upgrade installation of OOo did? I believe the cart is out there, not before the horse, but completely without a horse! You just made it from being a totally confused 68 year old user to being a participant in the project - thank you ;-) I have participated in the project, off and on, every since the day I started using OOo about 9 years ago. But I AM still a totally confused 68 year old user. Roxy Robinson -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.orgdiscuss%2bh...@documentfoundation.orgfor instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 17:09 +1300, Paul A Norman wrote: Yep I've had two confirmtatoin that I have left the list and still the emails come rolling Does this constitute nuisnace email now? It's probably a glitch in the email system. Unfortunately, it's the middle of the night for the people who take care of that, so it will probably be at least another 4 to 6 hours before someone can look into it. And yes, that sucks, and I'm not defending it. --Jean -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On 10/18/2010 08:57 PM, Paul A Norman wrote: I really liek you trying to help - but please is it worth defending the indefensible? For a memeber of the public would they ever guess that Contriubte means Help Availabel Here I thought you were implying that you couldn't get to the mailing lists from the front page, and I was pointing out that you can. I understand you don't like the website. It's already been mentioned on the list that contribute is probably not the best link label for leading to the mailing lists. The way things improve is by having a constructive idea or volunteering to take responsibility for improving some aspect that you think can be improved. Jon Don't defend community actions when they are wrong, or you will all end up in a dead end. Paul On 19 October 2010 16:26, Jon Hamkinshamk...@alumni.caltech.edu wrote: On 10/18/2010 08:11 PM, Paul A Norman wrote: Hidden under Contribute on their current front paghe they ahve weay down some where some lists - who knows there might even be a more appropriate list. I was told off for trying to report a fault in the beta 2 here and told to go to the User's Help list as if I could have found that by myself from their front page? Yes, click on contribute from the front page of the TDF website, and all the mailing lists are listed there, including the users list. (Perhaps it didn't used to be so, when you last looked.) Jon -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 17:02 +1300, Paul A Norman wrote: Thanks Jean, I really appreciate that you probably did not realise how frustrated quite a few Users are when being told you should be on a list that should actually have been all too obvious to you - but you could never find on the web page. I do understand that, and I'm sorry that my original note came out sounding like you're in the wrong place, you should have known better instead of you can probably get more help in this other place we should have told you about in the beginning. Unfortunately, I'm not authorised to make changes to the website, or I'd do some of the necessary things myself. I find the situation quite frustrating too, even if I have managed to find my way around... I think. And I agree, I hope the people who can make a few simple, necessary changes to improve the website for users will get the message and fix it, not wait until the new website is designed (work is proceeding on yet another list). --Jean A list that is supposed to guide you to help and you can;t ewven find it, then some one tells you that you are on the wrong list and should be on that other one you always wanted to have found any way? Can you all yet see it form the point of view of the potential millions of people who might like to use LiBO on day? I hope so. Paul On 19 October 2010 16:58, Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 16:11 +1300, Paul A Norman wrote: Hidden under Contribute on their current front paghe they ahve weay down some where some lists - who knows there might even be a more appropriate list. I was told off for trying to report a fault in the beta 2 here and told to go to the User's Help list as if I could have found that by myself from their front page? Excuse me, you were not told off -- I believe I was the first person to suggest the other list as it is usually more appropriate for solving users' problems. I am sorry if you misunderstood my comment, or if others have been rude to you. I agree with you that the ways of directing users to appropriate support and bug-reporting places need serious improvement. --Jean -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On 18/10/10 10:22 PM, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 17:09 +1300, Paul A Norman wrote: Yep I've had two confirmtatoin that I have left the list and still the emails come rolling Does this constitute nuisnace email now? It's probably a glitch in the email system. Unfortunately, it's the middle of the night for the people who take care of that, so it will probably be at least another 4 to 6 hours before someone can look into it. And yes, that sucks, and I'm not defending it. --Jean Roxy / Paul, Not to stick my nose in...but if you would really like to stop the mails until the unsubscribe works, there is always the possibility of turning on your spam filtering. Its a rather semi-permanent, forceful solution. If you do subscribe in future you would have to remember to remove the filter to accept mail from the TDF. Sorry you're having a bad time with this. Hope this helps. Scott Furry -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 00:41 -0400, Drew Jensen wrote: hi Jean, Just being redundant here (multiple posts) - people can use the nabble web interface to the mailing lists if they prefer. sorry - missed an 'l' http://oucv.org/tdf.htm but I'll keep it there and make it nicer over time - so feel free to refer people there when it seems appropriate. Drew -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [tdf-discuss] Houston, we have a problem.
You're a good sort thanks Jean. On 19 October 2010 17:22, Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 17:09 +1300, Paul A Norman wrote: Yep I've had two confirmtatoin that I have left the list and still the emails come rolling Does this constitute nuisnace email now? It's probably a glitch in the email system. Unfortunately, it's the middle of the night for the people who take care of that, so it will probably be at least another 4 to 6 hours before someone can look into it. And yes, that sucks, and I'm not defending it. --Jean -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- E-mail to discuss+h...@documentfoundation.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.documentfoundation.org/lists/discuss/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
