Re: [slim] Sound quality comparison between classic SB3, Duet, Touch etc
I have all 3 and find the Touch sounds best, with a tossup between the Duet and SB3, with a slight edge to the latter. musicom's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30459 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96806 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality comparison between classic SB3, Duet, Touch etc
jezbo wrote: > Will the various devices intended to route the analog signal through a > hi-fi have much the same sound quality? Are the DACs the same? Or have > they improved (Touch > Duet > SB3)? The electronics you feed, the speakers, and their room placement will make vastly more difference than any purported difference in the particular SlimDevices product you choose. bFORl banned for life's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=56269 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96806 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality comparison between classic SB3, Duet, Touch etc
jezbo wrote: > Will the various devices intended to route the analog signal through a > hi-fi have much the same sound quality? Are the DACs the same? Or have > they improved (Touch > Duet > SB3)? Many have reported that the TOUCH is "better" in terms of analog (the TOUCH internal DAC is better vs older models). The Touch is also reported to be a better digital transport connecting to other DACs. Search the forums for about a thousand posts discussing this issue in more detail, some including measurements, etc. from folks like Phil Leigh and John Swenson. garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96806 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality comparison between classic SB3, Duet, Touch etc
Duet & SB3 are very similar architecture and sound. Touch definitely has a better DAC. toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96806 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Sound quality comparison between classic SB3, Duet, Touch etc
Will the various devices intended to route the analog signal through a hi-fi have much the same sound quality? Are the DACs the same? Or have they improved (Touch > Duet > SB3)? jezbo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9888 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=96806 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality
Digital Coax = orange If you are using either Digital Coax or Digital Optical then you are indeed bypassing the SB's DAC. -- toby10 toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79156 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality
ROBBIE BURNS;550732 Wrote: > I have recently hooked up my pc/squeezebox classic to an aduio note dac > (via coxial cable) which in turn is hooked into my amp and speakers. I > am ripping cds to flac via media monkey but have noticed a degredation > in the sound quality compared to using my existing hi fi cd transport > and dac combination, my question is simple is the dac in the squeezbox > being bypassed as i have my own dac connected to the sbclassic or iam i > doing or have i missed something out help please!!! If you're using the coax out (which looks exactly like the White/Red left/right analog outputs... I don't recall the color of digital outs), then yes, you are not using the analog portion of the SB at all. Note that you -should- set the volume of the SB to 100% (there is a setting option on the web interface to lock it there) and use the analog volume on your preamp to adjust volume. This will ensure the digital stream from the SB is exactly as intended: it is "bit perfect"... anything else will be (at least slightly) altered. You should also turn off 'replay gain' type changes... they will alter the digital signal (in order to change volume they need to do that). -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79156 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Sound quality
I have recently hooked up my pc/squeezebox classic to an aduio note dac (via coxial cable) which in turn is hooked into my amp and speakers. I am ripping cds to flac via media monkey but have noticed a degredation in the sound quality compared to using my existing hi fi cd transport and dac combination, my question is simple is the dac in the squeezbox being bypassed as i have my own dac connected to the sbclassic or iam i doing or have i missed something out help please!!! -- ROBBIE BURNS ROBBIE BURNS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38224 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=79156 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
ModelCitizen;515612 Wrote: > The transcoding could take a reasonable amount of the capacity of a very > low spec machine, perhaps not leaving sufficient resources for other > tasks.MC Dell Dimension 4600 with Intel Pentium 4 running at 2.8GHz As this is the only task this computer performs, Windows Task Manager reports no other processes taking CPU time when Squeeze Box Server is streaming. -- macsband macsband's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8488 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
"macsband" Wrote: > What difference would it make if the computer were particularly low > spec? Your SqueezeServer in your computer transcodes an Apple file to a Flac. With a flac file it does no transcoding and streams the file as is. The transcoding could take a reasonable amount of the capacity of a very low spec machine, perhaps not leaving sufficient resources for other tasks. As I said I am interested to get to the bottom of these occassional reports of sound differences between different lossless file formats so I was on a fact finding mission. Myself and others want to make dead sure that the differences are not caused by obvious but often overlooked things like volume and file type settings before devoting more time to the conundrum. MC -- ModelCitizen Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known Last.fm/user/ModelCitizen ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
iPhone;515581 Wrote: > Hey Phil, > > If you have time, run those same to files against the Diff Program and > see if the graphs line up or if there are slight differences. If you > have time. Yes I will do that - I've saved the ALAC file away for later. I may be imagining things... ADM will tell me. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
iPhone;51 Wrote: > Important: When you stream Apple Lossless, what are your settings for > that in the settings section of SBS? Is the Apple Lossless converted to > MP3 or FLAC for playback? If they are being converted to MP3, that is > why they sound inferior. Squeeze Box Server > Settings > Advanced > File Types Apple Lossless Apple Lossless = Native FLAC = ALAC/FLAC MP3 = Disabled PCM = ALAC FLAC FLAC = Native MP3 = Disabled PCM = FLAC These are the default settings; they have never been modified. -- macsband macsband's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8488 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
Phil Leigh;515573 Wrote: > Understood. > Now you are going to think I'm bananas, but I've just converted a FLAC > to ALAC and played them side by side (Touch, SBS 7.5 nightly standard > convert.conf) > ... and the ALAC is clearly quieter by about 2-3dB. > > I have Replaygain OFF, but I notice that the flac and alac files have > track gain of -3.18dB... hmmm... > > > EDIT: sorry - the FLAC has -3.18 track gain, the ALAC seems to have > lost its replaygain tags... Hey Phil, If you have time, run those same to files against the Diff Program and see if the graphs line up or if there are slight differences. If you have time. -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: Second Boom Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
iPhone;515571 Wrote: > Yes the default is Native, but that doesn't mean that is what it is set > to now. If it was changed to Disabled (for whatever reason) then the > ALAC could be streaming as MP3 which was my point for asking to check > the actual settings. This setting would only affect the ALAC and have no > affect on FLAC which could account for the audible difference. > > Without being there, I thought it best to check even what one might > assume. Understood. Now you are going to think I'm bananas, but I've just converted a FLAC to ALAC and played them side by side (Touch, SBS 7.5 nightly standard convert.conf) ... and the ALAC is clearly quieter by about 2-3dB. I have Replaygain OFF, but I notice that the flac and alac files have track gain of -3.18dB... hmmm... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
macsband;515570 Wrote: > Come by and listen for yourself. When played sequentially, the > difference is obvious. Not unless there is either something badly wrong with your high bit rate MP3s or you are one of those very few people who are blessed/cursed with an unusually exceptional ability to spot MP3 artefacts. -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ? I SAID ALL OF THEM ! andynormancx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17417 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
Phil Leigh;515557 Wrote: > The default setting is stream alac native... isn't it? > Is there any way to get hold of an alac test file? Yes the default is Native, but that doesn't mean that is what it is set to now. If it was changed to Disabled (for whatever reason) then the ALAC could be streaming as MP3 which was my point for asking to check the actual settings. This setting would only affect the ALAC and have no affect on FLAC which could account for the audible difference. Without being there, I thought it best to check even what one might assume. -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: Second Boom Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
andynormancx;515560 Wrote: > Very, very few people can testably, reliably hear the difference between > high bit rate MP3 and FLAC. Come by and listen for yourself. When played sequentially, the difference is obvious. -- macsband macsband's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8488 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
iPhone;51 Wrote: > Important: When you stream Apple Lossless, what are your settings for > that in the settings section of SBS? The documentation I've read says that Squeeze Box Server converts ALC to FLAC for streaming to the Squeeze Box player. According to my understanding, this is necessitated by Apple's proprietary way of doing business. I use the default settings on SBS, so I assume that's what I'm getting. If not, why would the designers of SBS default to stream ALC as MP3 and not tell me??? It would be a very illogical choice, given that FLAC is available and more suitable. But I'd be glad to check. Tell me where this setting is, please. -- macsband macsband's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8488 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
macsband;515558 Wrote: > > MP3 files, even those at high bit rates (192 and above) sound less full > than FLAC files, which is expected. Very, very few people can testably, reliably hear the difference between high bit rate MP3 and FLAC. If you aren't doing a double blind test (with a thorough check that the volume levels really are equal) to compare 192k MP3 and FLAC then I'm afraid you have no real idea whether you are really hearing a difference or not. The same applies to comparing your transcoded ALAC vs FLAC. -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ? I SAID ALL OF THEM ! andynormancx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17417 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
The ALC files were ripped with iTunes using its default settings for Apple Lossless. Over time, various CDs, (old and newly procured) were ripped using the current version of iTunes (most recently, version 9). The FLAC files converted from ALC were converted by MediaMonkey using the default setting (compression level 6). The FLAC files ripped from a CD were ripped by MediaMonkey using the default setting (compression level 6). Because AAC and ALC files share the same .m4a file extension, care was taken to not confuse the two: AAC files were converted to MP3; ALC files were converted to FLAC. MP3 files, even those at high bit rates (192 and above) sound less full than FLAC files, which is expected. I'm not contending that ALC files inherently sound inferior to FLAC, so I don't see the point of playing them on a different player. The point of my post is that the loss apparently occurs when Squeezebox Server translates ALC files on the fly. I'm sure this was not by design. I had no suspicion that it might occur. It was the fact that it did occur that shocked me. I anticipated hearing NO DIFFERENCE between ALC files and FLAC files when I played them via the same Squeeze Box Server to the same audio system. My post was to document for the community, for whatever purpose it may serve, that I (and others) do in fact hear such a difference. What difference would it make if the computer were particularly low spec??? It's the same computer and the same sound system. The only variable is the type of file being played. FLAC files sound better than ALC files WHEN PLAYED under the same conditions, i.e., via the same Squeeze Box Server streaming to the same audio system. We're not hearing a volume difference. It's very difficult to provide good qualitative descriptions of what we hear. I can only repeat: the difference is dramatic and the difference is in detail and clarity and fullness, whether played a low volume or played at booming volume. -- macsband macsband's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8488 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
iPhone;51 Wrote: > Important: When you stream Apple Lossless, what are your settings for > that in the settings section of SBS? Is the Apple Lossless converted to > MP3 or FLAC for playback? If they are being converted to MP3, that is > why they sound inferior. > > The default setting is stream alac native... isn't it? Is there any way to get hold of an alac test file? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
macsband;515384 Wrote: > A year ago, I ripped my CD collection in Apple Lossless format via > iTunes. With Squeezebox sending the music to a $2,000 amp+speaker > system via digital connection, I expected beautiful music. I was > disappointed. The sound was muffled and vague. > > A couple days ago, I got tired of dealing with Apple's proprietary way > of doing business, so I uninstalled iTunes and converted from Apple > Lossless to FLAC. Now Squeezebox sends music in its native tongue, as > it were. > > AND THE SOUND IS SUDDENLY AWESOME!! It's like I have a whole new music > library!! Now the amp + speakers are producing crystal clear, full, > rich sound with live concert hall depth, harmonics, and brilliance. > > Something I've never read in the Squeezebox literature or in this forum > is that there must be a significant loss that takes place when > SqueexCenter Server converts Apple Lossless to FLAC when sending Apple > Lossless music files to Squeezebox. By dropping iTunes and converting > the music files from Apple Lossless to FLAC (and switching to > MediaMonkey as my jukebox), listening to my music has become a joy. > > Just wanted to share this experience in case any other Squeezebox users > have their music files stored in Apple Lossless. You may want to > convert to FLAC! Important: When you stream Apple Lossless, what are your settings for that in the settings section of SBS? Is the Apple Lossless converted to MP3 or FLAC for playback? If they are being converted to MP3, that is why they sound inferior. Anyway, the good news is that you have made the switch and moved away from iTunes and Apple encoding, congrats! My position is that FLAC is currently the way to go. -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: Second Boom Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
There's been a spate of similar posts recently and in all cases I believe something odd is going on with transcoding... can't get to the bottom of it yet... It looks like usual suspects can be ruled out (prefs, lame). Seems to mostly involve some cross platform issue like mac formats on PC or PC formats on a NAS (I know - shouldn't matter)... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
If the Apple Lossless files were definitely streaming to the player as Flac (and not MP3) then there *should* be no difference all. It is a bit worrying that you have heard some. A perceived difference in sound quality can sometimes come as a result of a volume change. It does seem unlikely, but could it be that the flac files are louder? One other thing that springs to mind is if the ALAC files were volume limited by Apple's equivalent of Replaygain (I know nothing about Apple proprietary formats or what a Squeezebox can do with them). I'd be interested to know if your computer is particularly low spec? It's not entirely uncommon that that people report sound differences between formats that really should sound the same, flac and wav (raw pcm) for instance. These reports always intrigue me. MC -- ModelCitizen Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known Last.fm/user/ModelCitizen ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
macsband;515528 Wrote: > My intention was not to improve sound quality because the literature > states that lossless = lossless. I did not anticipate a change in sound > quality. My intention was to get away from Apple's proprietary way of > doing business. However several people have listened to the system > before and after. The difference is not subtle; it's so dramatic that > everyone immediately commented, even before they knew that I had made > any change to the system. > > SqueezeBox Server Version 7.4.1 > Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 3 (updates current) > > Player > Audio > Bitrate Limiting = No Limit > > I re-ripped several CDs (classical and pop) and played the same track > in different versions: the ALC version, the converted FLAC version, and > the ripped FLAC version. There was a dramatic audible difference > between the ALC and both FLAC versions. There was no audible difference > between either FLAC version. Is there any possibility that your ALAC rips were not truly ALAC encoded? I ask because both ALAC and AAC encodings go in the same .m4a container and it is possible to confuse the two. If you had converted your files directly from ALAC to FLAC using dBpoweramp and gained sound quality from doing so, I'd have ruled out the mis-encoding question above, but you mention re-ripping so I have to ask... Next, if you have two encodings of the same file, one of which sounds mediocre and the sounds good, then try listening to them both in another player with some good headphones. You have MediaMonkey installed, IIRC. There is a chance that Replaygain or Soundcheck settings somehow are in play here. If they still sound different in a software player, then I'd suspect the the encoding is wrong. If they only sound different when played back through a SqueezeBox system, I might begin to suspect the transcoding s/w binaries are not working as they should (but it's odd that others haven't noticed this). -- dsdreamer -- "Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you..." dsdreamer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12588 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
dsdreamer;515386 Wrote: > you've just pre-converted the files off-line instead of having them > converted on the fly. I guess I didn't make myself clear. This was the whole point of my post: pre-converting the files off-line instead of on the fly made a HUGE difference in sound quality. Mac -- macsband macsband's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8488 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
My intention was not to improve sound quality because the literature states that lossless = lossless. I did not anticipate a change in sound quality. My intention was to get away from Apple's proprietary way of doing business. However several people have listened to the system before and after. The difference is not subtle; it's so dramatic that everyone immediately commented, even before they knew that I had made any change to the system. SqueezeBox Server Version 7.4.1 Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 3 (updates current) Player > Audio > Bitrate Limiting = No Limit I re-ripped several CDs (classical and pop) and played the same track in different versions: the ALC version, the converted FLAC version, and the ripped FLAC version. There was a dramatic audible difference between the ALC and both FLAC versions. There was no audible difference between either FLAC version. -- macsband macsband's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8488 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
macsband;515384 Wrote: > Something I've never read in the Squeezebox literature or in this forum > is that there must be a significant loss that takes place when > SqueexCenter Server converts Apple Lossless to FLAC when sending Apple > Lossless music files to Squeezebox. You've never read it because it doesn't happen. The conversion from ALAC to FLAC is 100% lossless. If you hear a difference it is either down to some odd misconfiguration or because you just think you hear a difference. -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ? I SAID ALL OF THEM ! andynormancx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17417 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
Makes me think that bitrate limiting might have been turned on, and set to a low quality mp3. Seems I recall that LAME V9 (very low quality) was the default on bitrate limiting when I installed SbS. So perhaps he was accidentally listening to 32kbs files. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
If the change was as dramatic as you describe, then I can only imagine a bad ALAC binary or misconfiguration of the file conversion pipe was to blame. I assume you didn't re-rip your CDs? If not, you've just pre-converted the files off-line instead of having them converted on the fly. The results should certainly be the same either way! Would you mind stating your SBS version and OS platform it is running on? -- dsdreamer -- "Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you..." dsdreamer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12588 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Sound quality dramatically improved by removing iTunes and switching to FLAC
A year ago, I ripped my CD collection in Apple Lossless format via iTunes. With Squeezebox sending the music to a $2,000 amp+speaker system via digital connection, I expected beautiful music. I was disappointed. The sound was muffled and vague. A couple days ago, I got tired of dealing with Apple's proprietary way of doing business, so I uninstalled iTunes and converted from Apple Lossless to FLAC. Now Squeezebox sends music in its native tongue, as it were. AND THE SOUND IS SUDDENLY AWESOME!! It's like I have a whole new music library!! Now the amp + speakers are producing crystal clear, full, rich sound with live concert hall depth, harmonics, and brilliance. Something I've never read in the Squeezebox literature or in this forum is that there must be a significant loss that takes place when SqueexCenter Server converts Apple Lossless to FLAC when sending Apple Lossless music files to Squeezebox. By dropping iTunes and converting the music files from Apple Lossless to FLAC (and switching to MediaMonkey as my jukebox), listening to my music has become a joy. Just wanted to share this experience in case any other Squeezebox users have their music files stored in Apple Lossless. You may want to convert to FLAC! -- macsband macsband's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8488 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=75064 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality of Sonos vs Duet
Newfiestang50;493316 Wrote: > I have a Western Digital Mybook (500gig). Do you know if the Touch will > support it, I believe the USB drive has to be FAT32 but I cannot find > info that says the WD Mybook is or not.. Touch supports fat32 + ntfs Newfiestang50;493316 Wrote: > > Getting back to the sound quality, if I use the digital out to connect > to my AVR (Yamaha RXV2600) then I will be using the DAC in that unit > correct? If that is the n case then shouldn't both the SB and Sonos > system sound the samealmost?. Maybe, maybe not. Impossible to predict. Newfiestang50;493316 Wrote: > > I believe the Yamaha RXV2600 has a 24 bit Burr Brown DAC so I may be > better off using that anyway. The dac chip is only part of the equation. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72307 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality of Sonos vs Duet
Newfiestang50;493316 Wrote: > I have a Western Digital Mybook (500gig). Do you know if the Touch will > support it, I believe the USB drive has to be FAT32 but I cannot find > info that says the WD Mybook is or not. Attach your USB drive to a pc and check the format. On Windows (XP) right click on the dirve an then properties. It should say on the first tab what the File System is. Generally they are formated FAT32. -- lrossouw 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/lrossouw) lrossouw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3416 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72307 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality of Sonos vs Duet
ModelCitizen;493070 Wrote: > The Sonos solution is more robust but a lot less flexible. The Sonos > hand held controllers are well-built, heavy and two handed (apart from > the latest one which is larger than an iPhone but lacks all the best > bits... and costs more!). The Logitech Controller is light, a bit tacky > but can be held and manipulated using only one hand. It is unforgiving > of badly set up wireless networks and under-powered servers. > > Personally I'd avoid the Controller (unless you really like messing > around with wireless networks and computers) and think about getting the > third party iPeng on an iPhone/iPod instead. > > There will be difference in sound output between output the Sonos and > the Receiver (but which is best only the individual listener can decide, > and then only for themselves). If sound quality were your biggest issue > you should consider the Logitech Transporter or at the least the > soon-to-be-released Touch. You will be able to attach a USB drive > directly to the Touch too, which'll be useful if you wanted to play > local files without requiring an always-on PC or NAS. > > MC I have a Western Digital Mybook (500gig). Do you know if the Touch will support it, I believe the USB drive has to be FAT32 but I cannot find info that says the WD Mybook is or not. Getting back to the sound quality, if I use the digital out to connect to my AVR (Yamaha RXV2600) then I will be using the DAC in that unit correct? If that is the n case then shouldn't both the SB and Sonos system sound the samealmost? I believe the Yamaha RXV2600 has a 24 bit Burr Brown DAC so I may be better off using that anyway. -- Newfiestang50 Newfiestang50's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34117 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72307 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality of Sonos vs Duet
For a new user/purchaser, I would recommend getting an SB3 (Classic) or waiting for the Touch. The Duet is network needy and if ones WiFi Network is not up to the task it can be frustrating when first starting out. The Touch or Classic with an iPhone/iTouch running iPeng blows the Sonos away in my opinion. The one and only advantage in my opinion for Sonos is the proprietary network built into the system. One doesn't have to have or setup a home WiFi Network to use Sonos. That is about where the advantage or good of Sonos ends. Their Server has a limit to number of songs it can handle (though most will never reach this, I have exceeded it), the sound quality is slightly lower (and well below the Transporter), one is forced to use their amp or buy other modules, their Controller is bulky, and the system is less flexible and without plugins. -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: Second Boom Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72307 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality of Sonos vs Duet
As an original Squeezebox owner who then purchased a Sonos system (ZP100/120 & ZP90) along with that awful controller I think Im qualified to reply ;) I have since sold the Sonos system and settled with the Squeezebox Classic range. The sound quality of the ZP100/120 is suitable for background, a good use would be in the toilet or lift! it's terrible. Just taking the analogue output from these player and using a budget hi-fi amp really make a big difference. was able to compare the ZP90 to the SB3, via analogue, same files, to the same amp. To my ears the SB3 was better. Sono's wins on an easy to use solution that is 100% robust (except when the microwave is running), however closed and no "tinkering" or adjusting in the way that Squeezebox can be customised. Sure there are a lot of posts with people having problems here but if you hardwire at least part of your network and run stable software you should be quite safe from gremlins. -- shevans SB 3, NVA P90sa passive pre-amp, NVA A40 monoblock's, Fostex FE206E based big purple people eaters! shevans's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32505 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72307 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality of Sonos vs Duet
The Sonos solution is more robust but a lot less flexible. The Sonos hand held controllers are well-built, heavy and two handed (apart from the latest one which is larger than an iPhone but lacks all the best bits... and costs more!). The Logitech Controller is light, a bit tacky but can be held and manipulated using only one hand. It is unforgiving of badly set up wireless networks and under-powered servers. Personally I'd avoid the Controller (unless you really like messing around with wireless networks and computers) and think about getting the third party iPeng on an iPhone/iPod instead. There will be difference in sound output between output the Sonos and the Receiver (but which is best only the individual listener can decide, and then only for themselves). If sound quality were your biggest issue you should consider the Logitech Transporter or at the least the soon-to-be-released Touch. You will be able to attach a USB drive directly to the Touch too, which'll be useful if you wanted to play local files without requiring an always-on PC or NAS. MC -- ModelCitizen Think the third party Squeeze plugins and applets are important? Then 'vote for bug 14194' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14194) so more can be made. Last.fm/user/ModelCitizen ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72307 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality of Sonos vs Duet
All I can say is that I made a decision for SB against Sonus a few years ago when they were pretty much the only game in town (there was also a Roku box that seemed really low end). The Sonus solution seemed more bloated (I would never want an integrated amplifier) whereas the SB solution gave me all flexibility, and other than the headphone out the focus on audio quality was amazing for the price. And still is. -- pablolie ...pablo Server: Shuttle X27D - Ubuntu 8.04LTS - SBS 7.4.1 Sources: SB3 (3), SB Boom (3), Duet, Accuphase DP65v CD Amplifier: Accuphase E306v - Creek OBH21/22 Loudspeakers: Ceeroy 3-way tower (tuned) - Audioengine 5/S8 - Acoustic Energy Aego M Headphones: Grado SR-1 pablolie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72307 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Sound quality of Sonos vs Duet
Guys, I am trying to decide which product I will be going with, the SB Duet or Sonos system and was wondering if anyone on here knew which device sounds better. Does anyone know which DAC the Sonos unit uses, I searched their forum but came up empty. Also, I read over there that the Sonos only samples at 16/44. How does this compare to SB Duet and how important is this spec. Sorry for all the questions but I am new to all these streaming players, I usually just play my CD's but I am getting sick of going through my collection all the time trying to find a CD to listen to, just to many CD's to have out around. -- Newfiestang50 Newfiestang50's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34117 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72307 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Sound quality between wav and flac
Has anyone noticed sound quality differences between a flac and wave file? I am certainly aware that flac is "lossless" however playback of flac files sound flat and dont seem to have great imaging effect on the sound than Wav. anyone? -- Louishlomador Louishlomador's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34260 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71321 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality of SqueezePlay
rydenfan;421517 Wrote: > So, I have found a major issue with SqueezePlay, it does not output > sound!! When I hooked my DAC up via Firewire there is no sound. I can > use other front-ends and it works fine but nothing with SqueezePlay. > There is no way to set the output device. Hopefully will get resolved > soon! OK, you could probably use SqueezeSlave but that's limited to 44.1/16 What about SoftSqueeze (comes with SC)? -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63083 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality of SqueezePlay
So, I have found a major issue with SqueezePlay, it does not output sound!! When I hooked my DAC up via Firewire there is no sound. I can use other front-ends and it works fine but nothing with SqueezePlay. There is no way to set the output device. Hopefully will get resolved soon! -- rydenfan rydenfan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63083 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality of SqueezePlay
pippin;421301 Wrote: > What about SqueezeSlave? I have not tried squeezeslave yet. I am not super technically inclined when it comes to computers so I am still trying to figure out how to make it work properly. -- rydenfan rydenfan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63083 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality of SqueezePlay
What about SqueezeSlave? -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63083 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality of SqueezePlay
Sadly i think SqueezePlay would just use the system default audio setting on any platform, and even ignore it on Mac ? i've read in some tread, somebody tried an usb soundcard and still got the music trough internal laptop speakers ? On ubuntu it plays 24/96 files but ! they get truncated to 16/96 ? The developers claimed that this was down to some alsa problem in my ubuntu install, this is quite possibly so, but when 24/96 is not working on windows either hmm. Well there is still a slim possibility that SqueeezePlay could use 24/96 on a linux machine. And Radish is rigth for windows you want to select Asio drivers or kernel streaming just like you do with foobar, these drivers are installed to windows and can be selected by any application thats recognize this functionality apparently not SqueezePlay. ted_b and ryde fan why not write an bug report on this ? in bugzilla http://bugs.slimdevices.com/ -- Mnyb Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63083 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality of SqueezePlay
rydenfan;421099 Wrote: > is this a given that the Mac Mini will do this? or is this an > assumption? It's an assumption based on a decent understanding of how these things are typically done. It's usually possible to get a bit-perfect channel all the way through (at least it is on Windows) but it can take some tweaking (ASIO drivers, Kernel Streaming etc). Some quick googling suggests that the same problems exist on OSX (and hopefully there are similar solutions). -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63083 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality of SqueezePlay
David (Rydenfan) and I are on the same quest (and we're working together on this), to use a software player and Squeeze Center to send a bit perfect signal, through firewire, to a firewire DAC (Weiss DAC2). This way we get to keep our SC as our music server, use FLAC, and use iPeng app/iPod as our remote GUI interface. Although we're open to using whatever CPU, right now David has SC on a Mac and I have SC on a Vista PC. My 10 minutes of trying/testing Squeezeplay through my onboard sound driver (not the final setup of course, that would be fw DAC) has garnered this: * 16/44.1 works fine but has considerable noise in the background, which isn't normal for my pc. My pc setup isn't state of the art but through my Audio Engine 5 speakers I can tell you that Foobar sounds incredible, so it's something to do with Squeezeplay setup. (again, only 10 minutes of experience here) * 24/96 doesn't seem to work, even though the Squeezeplay Wiki says it should. Squeezeplay shows album as "stopped". This issue is very important to me. i have LOTS of hirez and need at least my Transporter capability (i.e 24/96). 24/192 would be icing on the cake. Again, Foobar handles all the way to 24/192 on my pc, so it ain't a restriction of my pc's sound capabilities. I can't seem to find a settings page for Squeezeplay audio drivers (which could fix the above issues). Most of these settings are either SC related, or are testing areas for text input, etc. There is one area for test tones (which includes sine waves for 88.2 and 96k) but they don't respond when chosen. -- ted_b ted_b's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3289 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63083 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality of SqueezePlay
pippin;421080 Wrote: > I think the two questions here are: > 1. Does SqueezePlay support lossless formats (flac) on Mac? Yes, I > suppose. > 2. Does the Mac Mini have an SPDIF out? I will actually be going Firewire to the DAC. -- rydenfan rydenfan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63083 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality of SqueezePlay
and 3. What happens to the stream between the source app and the ouput. Don't assume it gets through unmolested, there are often mixers, resamplers, EQ, etc in the mix. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63083 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality of SqueezePlay
I think the two questions here are: 1. Does SqueezePlay support lossless formats (flac) on Mac? Yes, I suppose. 2. Does the Mac Mini have an SPDIF out? -- pippin --- see iPeng, the Squeezebox iPhone remote, at penguinlovesmusic.com pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63083 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality of SqueezePlay
What comes out of SqueezePlay will be bit perfect (volume adjustments notwithstanding) - but what the Mac does to it after that is anyone's guess :) -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63083 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] sound quality of SqueezePlay
In one of my rooms I have a Transporter and in another I am planning a Mac Mini running SqueezePlay and external DAC. I am just wanting to make sure that the new SqueezePlay is a bit perfect solution. I am assuming SqueezePlay passes the exact signal that get passed to my Transporter but just want to make sure. Thanks! -- rydenfan rydenfan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=63083 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
If you email me or send me a pm with your email address I will send you what I call the purchase kit. It contains the complete manual with many screen snaps, the license agreement and how to buy it. The price is $29.95 via paypal. That does not include the Pronto, just the software for a Pronto. If you already have a Pronto PRO then tell me the model so I can send you the correct package -- barrygordon barrygordon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7468 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62713 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
barrygordon;418414 Wrote: > Chenrikson, Thanks for the plug. I have sold over 200 of the Pronto > control system (very low price). Many, especially in Europe, have > bought into the Slim Solution because of that application for the > Pronto. Sounds very cool, is there a web page that shows how it all works for us home audio challenged. :) -- Nonreality -IF THE RULE YOU FOLLOWED BROUGHT YOU TO THIS, OF WHAT USE IS THE RULE.- HTTP://www.last.fm/user/nonreality Nonreality's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62713 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
Chenrikson, Thanks for the plug. I have sold over 200 of the Pronto control system (very low price). Many, especially in Europe, have bought into the Slim Solution because of that application for the Pronto. -- barrygordon barrygordon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7468 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62713 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
barrygordon;418162 Wrote: > dsdreamer, thank you for the very well constructed and intelligent reply > (no denigration to other replies intended). Yes with clock > reconstruction as you indicated, there is the case for some waveform > edge jitter, but as I said I have old ears so maybe I just waste money > on my toys. > > The downstream audio is handled by the new Cary Cinema11A which IMHO > has a superb sound and is fed into an outlaw 7 channel amp into 7 > acoustically matched B&W speakers. Bass is done by a Velodyne servo > sub. > > I do have a large collection of ripped DTS tracks and some very high > end multichannel audio from some of the smaller labels. I buy DTS > multichannel CD's whenever I can. > > I do use the Transporter in the Music room/theater, Squeezeboxes in the > master bedroom and for whole house audio, a receiver for the guest > bedroom and a squeezebox for the pool deck. > > All music is controlled by a set of Pronto PRO remotes running an > application that provides full control and full visual feedback from > the Squeezecenter of all players. > > Once again, thanks to all who replied. We might add that Barry is the author of specialized software that allows using high-end Philips Pronto remotes (TSU9400, TSU9600) with SB applications including the Duet/Receiver! For more info check out Remote Central. -- chenrikson chenrikson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22407 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62713 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
pfarrell;418186 Wrote: > funkstar wrote: > > 48khz is the maximum output frequency of the normal players. > > Yes, but there is not a lot of material using that maximum. All RedBook > > is 44.1 > > > -- > Pat Farrell > http://www.pfarrell.com/ Yes quite so, I only seen 48k with 96k tra -- Mnyb Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62713 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
funkstar wrote: > 48khz is the maximum output frequency of the normal players. Yes, but there is not a lot of material using that maximum. All RedBook is 44.1 -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
pfarrell;418177 Wrote: > Do you really mean 48? or 44.1? 48khz is the maximum output frequency of the normal players. http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/HardwareComparison -- funkstar my collection: *1*x boom *2*x controller, *1*x receiver *2*x sb3 (sliver/black, *1*x sb2 wired (silver), *1*x sb (black) *1*x slimp3 (with rear shield) interested in any others if you have them! funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62713 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
Mnyb wrote: > Eh the "lesser" boxes are actually doing 24/48 not only 16/48 . Do you really mean 48? or 44.1? -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
Eh the "lesser" boxes are actually doing 24/48 not only 16/48 . SC is transcoding 24/96 to 24/48 for the "lesser" players. Imho a SB3 or SBR will do just fine as a "transport" The edge the TP has is 96kHz . I have a whooping 20-30 albums of these among my >1440 albums. And a clock input which can be used if your dac has clock output. In practice, with my old ears and declining hearing, i find my SB3 identical to my Meridian G98DH dvd player as a source into my my Meridian G68J HT processor/preamp on CD material (16/44) on hi-rez the meridian wins. -- Mnyb Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62713 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
dsdreamer, thank you for the very well constructed and intelligent reply (no denigration to other replies intended). Yes with clock reconstruction as you indicated, there is the case for some waveform edge jitter, but as I said I have old ears so maybe I just waste money on my toys. The downstream audio is handled by the new Cary Cinema11A which IMHO has a superb sound and is fed into an outlaw 7 channel amp into 7 acoustically matched B&W speakers. Bass is done by a Velodyne servo sub. I do have a large collection of ripped DTS tracks and some very high end multichannel audio from some of the smaller labels. I buy DTS multichannel CD's whenever I can. I do use the Transporter in the Music room/theater, Squeezeboxes in the master bedroom and for whole house audio, a receiver for the guest bedroom and a squeezebox for the pool deck. All music is controlled by a set of Pronto PRO remotes running an application that provides full control and full visual feedback from the Squeezecenter of all players. Once again, thanks to all who replied. -- barrygordon barrygordon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7468 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62713 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
barrygordon wrote: > Okay guestions bring answers and ansers bring more questions. I > understand about the 24/96 vs 16/48, but other than that... > > Addressing the connector - so what. It is a digital stream. If all > the bits get transmitted with negligible jitter ( a whole other > discussion, as I do not believe in it at the rates we are talking > about) who cares what the connector or medium of transfer (photons vs > electrons) is. Why/how can it make a difference. > > I am a digital (hardware and software) engineer with 47 years in the > field before I retired, So I know that subject fairly well. > I tend to agree with you. Ones and zeros are ones and zeros unless they aren't... Regards, Peter ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
You were very clear, but the matter is not as clear as you would like it to be. The Transporter and the lesser boxes all claim to be "bitperfect", but data can be lost or corrupted in the transfer to you DAC. Whether you can hear this will depend to some degree on the resolution of the DAC and the following analogue replay chain. In my opinion, you would need to have an extremely high quality replay chain to here the engineering imperfections of the Slimdevices/DAC interface. The problem playing of 24/96 files is resolved in the latest versions of Slimserver - it will downsample on the fly. Again, whether you can hear the difference between 24/96 and 16/48 will depend on the resolution of your replay chain - and that of your own ears! -- Labarum Brian Squeezebox 3 Classic and Virgin Cable Box Beresford DAC TC-7510 MK6/4 - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man Quart 980s Speakers Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62713 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
barrygordon;418137 Wrote: > My assumption is that if I play my music out of the optical connection > on any Slim Devices player there should be no difference in sound as > DAC quality of the player does not come into it. Am I correct in that > assumption? That is, a $2000 Transporter and a $120 Receiver should > sound exactly the same as far as their optical outputs are concerned. Let's assume CD-quality (16 bits per channel x 44.1kHz) is good enough and you aren't going to be buying high-rez FLAC downloads from audiophile music labels. Then, the only difference could be the clock stability of the source and jitter on edge transitions. The external DAC has to lock onto and recover the clock from a single stream containing both the data and an implied clock. The quality of that waveform, in particular the slope of the transitions between ones and zeros can make a difference to how jittery the recovered clock winds up. True, this is more a function of the counter measures taken inside the DAC, but to a degree it depends on the transmitted waveform quality as well. In fact, that is a reason that an electrical coax connection has the potential to be better, as it can be made very wide band. If the bandwidth is constrained, then you have a low pass filter which causes previous bits to influence the present bit, also known as ISI. This again causes edge-jitter which can impact the quality of the recovered clock. All this can sound like audiophilia nervosa, but it is scientifically quantifiable and mathematically correct. The only question is how important is it? Most good, modern DACs are designed to mitigate such effects to a large degree. So, depending on the level of ambition you have for your sound quality and the quality of your down-stream audio equipment you may not be able to hear the difference. In fact, the balance of probability is that you won't hear a difference. My summary: Using a Transporter purely for digital-out makes *most* sense if you think you are going to collect music in higher-than-CD resolution, but also has some theoretical justification if you are going all-out for a no-compromise system and really want to avoid all possible sources of jitter, real or imagined. (But in that case, use the coax output.) -- dsdreamer -- "Dreamer, easy in the chair that really fits you..." dsdreamer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12588 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62713 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
Okay guestions bring answers and ansers bring more questions. I understand about the 24/96 vs 16/48, but other than that... Addressing the connector - so what. It is a digital stream. If all the bits get transmitted with negligible jitter ( a whole other discussion, as I do not believe in it at the rates we are talking about) who cares what the connector or medium of transfer (photons vs electrons) is. Why/how can it make a difference. I am a digital (hardware and software) engineer with 47 years in the field before I retired, So I know that subject fairly well. -- barrygordon barrygordon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7468 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62713 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
Perhaps I wasn't being clear. Lets forget about the Audio chain after the player for the moment. Will the exact same digital stream be put out by all of the players to their digital outputs i.e. optical or coxial. I guess that is my question. I own every type of player that Slim Devices sells, but I have very old ears. In theory however, in the configuration I am discussing, the DAC's in the player should not be used. There should just be a digital format conversion from FLAC to LPCM out of the digital output, or am I missing something? If it is just a format conversion then all digital outoputs should be the same. -- barrygordon barrygordon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7468 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62713 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
Exactly the same? It may depend on the DAC and replay chain you are feeding. S/PDIF optical and through the RCA socket is compromised to some degree. An RCA phono socket is the silliest connector to use, but . . . boxes built to consumer standards seem to love them. The Transporter, of course, supports up to 24/96. The lesser boxes only up to 16/48. How much difference this will make in practice, I cannot say. -- Labarum Brian Squeezebox 3 Classic and Virgin Cable Box Beresford DAC TC-7510 MK6/4 - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man Quart 980s Speakers Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62713 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] sound quality
barrygordon;418137 Wrote: > My assumption is that if I play my music out of the optical connection > on any Slim Devices player there should be no difference in sound as > DAC quality of the player does not come into it. Am I correct in that > assumption? That is, a $2000 Transporter and a $120 Receiver should > sound exactly the same as far as their optical outputs are concerned. Maybe and then again maybe not. There certainly won't be much in it. The end result you achieve will depend greatly on the DAC. Also, optical toslink MAY or may not be as good as spdif with some DAC's... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62713 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[slim] sound quality
My assumption is that if I play my music out of the optical connection on any Slim Devices player there should be no difference in sound as DAC quality of the player does not come into it. Am I correct in that assumption? That is, a $2000 Transporter and a $120 Receiver should sound exactly the same as far as their optical outputs are concerned. -- barrygordon barrygordon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7468 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=62713 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality: Duet Receiver vs SB3?
Let me be the skeptic who calls bullshit on that. I'll bet my house that there's no discernible difference at all. -- Kvaks Kvaks's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21610 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=58298 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality: Duet Receiver vs SB3?
twynne;385134 Wrote: > I've just ordered a new Duet, and just wondered (as the Duet is clearly > a newer product) is there any difference in audio quality between that > output by the Duet as compared to the SB3? Are the components in one > any better than the other? Any subjective opinions??I read in a review that > they have different DACs. IIRC the audiophile journalist ran comparative tests, using borrowed equipment, and decided that the Duet was microscopically clearer than the SB3. Then he admitted that he wouldn't be able to hear the difference on his home system. Unfortunately I can't where I read it -- RolandG RolandG's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22575 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=58298 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality: Duet Receiver vs SB3?
snarlydwarf wrote: > Ah, my Harmony never got that much use.. stupid TV really doesn't like > it. (It is VERY picky about pauses between changing input sources... > too short and it ignores it, too long and it is busy trying to lock > onto a blank input and ignores it... I blame the TV since it also does > dumb things with HDMI sound, and despite having an optical out it won't > send the HDMI audio to my receiver except from the DTV input which is > useless since I use Composite for cable and HDMI for DVD...) > What brand is that TV? (so I can steer away from it in the store) Regards, Peter ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality: Duet Receiver vs SB3?
twynne;385185 Wrote: > Lol - thanks, but I haven't given all of the details. :-) > > I already have 2 SB3's and 2 Booms - in a 1 bedroom flat! The Booms > are both actively used pretty much daily, and the SB3's a bit less. I > was considering replacing one of the SB3's with the Duet. Oh, my, and I thought I was overdoing it. :P > > The infrared issue comes in that I use a Harmony Remote to control the > systems in each room, and it 'unifies' all of the components. If I > swap to the Duet I won't be able to control it at all without picking > up the Controller. Ah, my Harmony never got that much use.. stupid TV really doesn't like it. (It is VERY picky about pauses between changing input sources... too short and it ignores it, too long and it is busy trying to lock onto a blank input and ignores it... I blame the TV since it also does dumb things with HDMI sound, and despite having an optical out it won't send the HDMI audio to my receiver except from the DTV input which is useless since I use Composite for cable and HDMI for DVD...) -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=58298 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality: Duet Receiver vs SB3?
Lol - thanks, but I haven't given all of the details. :-) I already have 2 SB3's and 2 Booms - in a 1 bedroom flat! The Booms are both actively used pretty much daily, and the SB3's a bit less. I was considering replacing one of the SB3's with the Duet. The infrared issue comes in that I use a Harmony Remote to control the systems in each room, and it 'unifies' all of the components. If I swap to the Duet I won't be able to control it at all without picking up the Controller. -- twynne twynne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1326 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=58298 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality: Duet Receiver vs SB3?
twynne;385168 Wrote:
> Actually I may have just stumbled on the deciding factor - the SB3 has
> an infrared receiver, so can be controlled by my existing universal
> remote. Presumably the Duet Receiver does not? I certainly don't see
> it mentioned in the specs...
No, it does not, since the only really useful thing you could use it
for would be pause (or on/off) and volume. Without a display,
navigation would be blind ("if I hit down three times, then I am at the
album I want") and painful.
Personally, I would keep both units.
Use the SB3 where you want to see the display (perhaps a bedroom, it
makes a nifty alarm clock) and the Duet where you didn't need to see
the display.
At least try it with a couple units for a while: the SB client-server
model really shows its stuff with multiple units.
--
snarlydwarf
snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179
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Re: [slim] Sound quality: Duet Receiver vs SB3?
Actually I may have just stumbled on the deciding factor - the SB3 has an infrared receiver, so can be controlled by my existing universal remote. Presumably the Duet Receiver does not? I certainly don't see it mentioned in the specs... -- twynne twynne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1326 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=58298 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality: Duet Receiver vs SB3?
Thanks for the reply. I'm considering selling either one of the SB3's or the Receiver only (keeping the Controller). Long story. I'm looking for compelling reasons to keep one or the other. At the moment I can only come up with the fact that the Receiver is wireless (my SB3 is wired). -- twynne twynne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1326 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=58298 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound quality: Duet Receiver vs SB3?
Sound quality pretty much identical according to all reports. Receiver MIGHT have slightly less noise (no VFD display) but this will be extremely marginal at best. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=58298 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
[slim] Sound quality: Duet Receiver vs SB3?
I've just ordered a new Duet, and just wondered (as the Duet is clearly a newer product) is there any difference in audio quality between that output by the Duet as compared to the SB3? Are the components in one any better than the other? Any subjective opinions?? As the types of outputs remain the same, I don't see one having an advantage over the other in the area of connectivity. Is there any other advantage of the Duet Receiver? Thanks, Tom -- twynne twynne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1326 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=58298 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
I did a clean install of Opensuse 11.0 and KDE 4.1.3. And I was not happy with the sound so I installed Vista and suddenly I got the same sound as I have with a cd. For some reason Linux installed Audigy drivers, but the souncard is a SB Live 24. Maybe that had something to do with it. -- bernt 'LastFM' (http://www.last.fm/user/ottovonkopp/) SB3 - SC 7.2.1 - Ubuntu Server 8.04 bernt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1342 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
bpa;360851 Wrote: > I would expect a display as follows from Kmix. > > http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdemultimedia/kmix/working-with-kmix.html > > On my Suse system KMix mixer is open by clicking on the "mixer" button > at the bottom of the vomlume control. Alternatively start KMix from the > application menus. It does not look like that at all. Under Help About Kmix it says Ver 3.0 using KDE 4.1.2. After some experimenting using headphones I found out if I set the system vol to 100% and adjust the volume in Amarok to the same level as the CD sound. Distortion disappeared but the sound is still kind of flat, lifeless. But I guess that's depends on the hardware and cable and not the software. And I'll do clean install some day. Thank's for your help. -- bernt 'LastFM' (http://www.last.fm/user/ottovonkopp/) SB3 - SC 7.2.1 - Ubuntu Server 8.04 bernt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1342 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
left click the volume controlthen click the mixer tab. settings > configure channels etc. With my cmedia card I use the optical out which means me turning on the IEC958 switch -- mudlark SB3>CyrusDACX>PreXvs>ESPAudio P09B Active filter>NAP140+260A>Rhapsody, Avondale and Naim cable, Kubuntu Intrepid Ibis server, linkstation for storage. SB3 Flycatcher 3A linear power supply. Using SqueezeCentre 7.3 unstable mudlark's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7151 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
left click the volume control then click the mixer tab. if no response open the terminal and type kmix. Kmix is there with kde4 I think. settings > configure channels etc. With my cmedia card I use the optical out which means me turning on the IEC958 switch -- mudlark SB3>CyrusDACX>PreXvs>ESPAudio P09B Active filter>NAP140+260A>Rhapsody, Avondale and Naim cable, Kubuntu Intrepid Ibis server, linkstation for storage. SB3 Flycatcher 3A linear power supply. Using SqueezeCentre 7.3 unstable mudlark's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7151 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
I would expect a display as follows from Kmix. http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdemultimedia/kmix/working-with-kmix.html On my Suse system KMix mixer is open by clicking on the "mixer" button at the bottom of the vomlume control. Alternatively start KMix from the application menus. -- bpa bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
bpa;360776 Wrote: > Kmix usually has 3 tabs - output, input and switches. Look at "input" > tab. Sorry, I can't find any of the tabs. I click on the speaker next to the clock and then the button Mixer. There is a lot of channels but only one is doing anything. According to lspci my soundcard is a Creative Labs SB Audigy LS card. I also booted from Kubuntu 8.10 livecd and it sounded the same. Slightly distorted and flat. -- bernt 'LastFM' (http://www.last.fm/user/ottovonkopp/) SB3 - SC 7.2.1 - Ubuntu Server 8.04 bernt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1342 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
Sounds cards in PCs have poor analog output for the reasons stated in this thred. There is a lot of electrical noise in a computer. If you are getting pops and clicks you can make sure your sound card is on it's own interupt. Use "lspci" from the command line in linux. But I don't think this is your problem. Your best bet though is to use the SDIF out on your PC and connect that to your stereo. That way the A/D is done by the stereo not the PC. If your PC sound card doesn't have SDIF or digital out you can get sound sound cards or USB sound systems that do for under $25. -- agillis rip, tag, get cover artÂ… All you do is insert the CD! http://vortexbox.org agillis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21140 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
bernt wrote: > I guess I'm a little out of topic on this forum. My apologies. > > This has nothing to do with SC or SB. I listen to music on my computer > through above stereo and discovered by accident how bad it sound if a > play the music on the computer vs playing cd on the same stereo. > Internal sound cards can be pretty bad. They also tend to produce a lot of interference from the motherboard. External sound cards (or external DACs) can be much better, but one might as well get an SB for the money Regards, Peter ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
> > Where do I check what inputs are enabled? > Kmix usually has 3 tabs - output, input and switches. Look at "input" tab. -- bpa bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
Just a guess, but it may be down to the Ubuntu soundcard driver. Ubuntu may be using a 'generic' soundcard driver that may not be specifically written for your soundcard. You don't say what soundcard you have ... perhaps the manufacturer's web site may have a manufacturer written linux driver for it. As I say, just a guess. -- GlenL GlenL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14364 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
bpa;360763 Wrote: > Amarok only plays through the "speakers" which may also be routed to a > digital output on some cards. I'm assuming you have some output from > the PC connected to your main audio setup. > > What inputs are enabled ? I'm a little confused by the settings in Kubuntu, Where do I check what inputs are enabled? -- bernt 'LastFM' (http://www.last.fm/user/ottovonkopp/) SB3 - SC 7.2.1 - Ubuntu Server 8.04 bernt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1342 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
bernt;360764 Wrote: > I guess I'm a little out of topic on this forum. My apologies. > > This has nothing to do with SC or SB. I listen to music on my computer > through above stereo and discovered by accident how bad it sound if a > play the music on the computer vs playing cd on the same stereo. > > I run SC on another pc and have the SB connected to another stereo with > perfect results. Sorry, I missed that! Re-reading your post, I see you never mention SC, you're comparing computer -> stereo vs. CD player -> stereo. Incidentally, this is why I gave up on computer audio. No matter what I did, it was always just...blah. I suspect if I spent mega $$$ on a soundcard (M-Audio Delta or similar) the results would have been better, but the SB was roughly equivalent in cost and a lot more flexible. -- Mark Lanctot Current: SB2, Transporter, Boom (PQP3 - late beta) Stored: Boom (PQP1 - early beta), SBC (beta - no battery) Sold: SB3, Duet Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
I guess I'm a little out of topic on this forum. My apologies. This has nothing to do with SC or SB. I listen to music on my computer through above stereo and discovered by accident how bad it sound if a play the music on the computer vs playing cd on the same stereo. I run SC on another pc and have the SB connected to another stereo with perfect results. -- bernt 'LastFM' (http://www.last.fm/user/ottovonkopp/) SB3 - SC 7.2.1 - Ubuntu Server 8.04 bernt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1342 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
> > Everything in the Mixer is set to zero except for Front Speakers. For > some reason this is the output source. > Amarok only plays through the "speakers" which may also be routed to a digital output on some cards. I'm assuming you have some output from the PC connected to your main audio setup. What inputs are enabled ? -- bpa bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
It really should be mentioned here that SqueezeCenter doesn't care what OS you're running, the sound quality should not be affected (up to the point it drops out completely due to insufficient bandwidth). After all, you don't even need a soundcard to run SC. SC does not use any sound software or hardware. Playing back through the computer using the kernel mixer is a different matter. -- Mark Lanctot Current: SB2, Transporter, Boom (PQP3 - late beta) Stored: Boom (PQP1 - early beta), SBC (beta - no battery) Sold: SB3, Duet Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
Everything in the Mixer is set to zero except for Front Speakers. For some reason this is the output source. I have checked it from a terminal with alsamixer. -- bernt 'LastFM' (http://www.last.fm/user/ottovonkopp/) SB3 - SC 7.2.1 - Ubuntu Server 8.04 bernt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1342 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
Generally the PC speaker sound output has gone through a mixer which can combine various sources (e.g. wave, CD , mic, line-in ) into one output. Many of these sources are enabled by default so a lot of audio processing (e.g. upsampling , mixing, downsampling, enhanced stereo) will be performed on the audio before output. By contrast with SC, audio from files are passed unaltered to the SB. In Linux look for mixer control (e.g. Kmix in KDE I think or amixer on shell) to adjust volume amongst other things. -- bpa bpa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
bernt;360737 Wrote: > Maybe it's my installation that is messed up. I have installed Kubuntu > 8.04 with KDE 3.x, installed KDE 4.x and then upgraded to Kubuntu > 8.10. > > I think I try a clean install to see if that solves the problem. > > socistep. How do you the set the volume in Kubuntu? > > I have it set to 100% in Amarok and the system to 60-70%. If I set the > system vol higher it get really distorted. I only use Squeezecenter/Duet now to listen to music and I go with the same approach - set the Duet at 100% and then control volume through my Hi-Fi, this gives the best sound -- socistep socistep's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18860 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
Maybe it's my installation that is messed up. I have installed Kubuntu 8.04 with KDE 3.x, installed KDE 4.x and then upgraded to Kubuntu 8.10. I think I try a clean install to see if that solves the problem. socistep. How do you the set the volume in Kubuntu? I have it set to 100% in Amarok and the system to 60-70%. If I set the system vol higher it get really distorted. -- bernt 'LastFM' (http://www.last.fm/user/ottovonkopp/) SB3 - SC 7.2.1 - Ubuntu Server 8.04 bernt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1342 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
Re: [slim] Sound Quality Linux vs Windows
bernt;360725 Wrote: > Hi! > > I have this stereo connected to my computer with Kubuntu 8.10. > http://www.amazon.com/JVC-FS-Y1-Component-System-Player/dp/B0007XH72Y > > The other day I burned a music cd from flac files and put it in the > stereo to test it. And wow! What a sound compared to play the same > music with Amarok. > > The sound from the computer was distorted and flat compared to the cd. > > If I installed windows, could I get better sound or is it the > soundcard, cables or..? > > Has anyone else noticed a difference in sound quality between Windows > and Linux on the same hardware? > > Kind Regards > /Bernt Yes I have found a difference, I dual boot into Ubuntu & XP - the root cause of my difference's was related to the wireless card through. The wireless card was performing poorly on Linux and that was impacting sound quality, this has been improved significantly on the move to 8.10 so doubt whether that is your problem. I haven't since the 8.10 checked the sound quality between the 2, I guess this is a hard thing to measure as with the wireless issues resolved then it would be related to my own interpretation -- socistep socistep's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18860 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=55182 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
