Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting Minutes 5/13/14
Andrew, the questions where out of line and uncalled for.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 10:18 PM, Alex kot ak47...@gmail.com wrote:
Fiona,
Shoot an email to discuss-unsubscr...@synhak.org this will send an email
back letting you know you where unsubscribe.
Thanks,
Alex Kot
--
From: Fiona Casida fcas...@gmail.com
Sent: 5/15/2014 9:29 PM
To: SYN/HAK discussion list discuss@synhak.org
Subject: Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting Minutes 5/13/14
Good evening,
Would you please remove me from the list? Thank you.
I wish you all the best.
Fiona Casida
Sent from my iPhone
On May 15, 2014, at 9:05 PM, a l leit...@gmail.com wrote:
Becca,
I figured the minutes didn't accurately capture the moment. I agree that
interviews have been lax and even rushed in the past. It's obvious that
there are differing views on how we run and how we should run. Members new
and old should have some, at least casual, knowledge of how we govern and
what our mission and community goals are.
Everyone,
Sure we hack and do-ocracy things but what does that mean? How do you
balance do-ocracy with not crushing people's toes. In the past we were
operating fairly smoothly. Part of that is due to the small size but a
bigger part of that was a clearer sense of who we were as a community. It
would be simple if we could pile all of our faults onto the actions of a
few, or single person, over the past few months. The current state is a
symptom of a general failure of us as a community.
As Becca touched on these events are the culmination of a long history of
banal interviews and little clear direction. We say our mission at the
beginning of every meeting but do we really do what we tell everyone we do.
We've got the infrastructure but our community doesn't follow a coherent
set of values. Some people want voting, some want consensus, others just
want to throw money at a cool idea so they can use the tools once a month
and help out with expenses. Others still are confused as to why we
collectively need to provide educational outlets to the public. We as a
community have lost our way, maybe we never really had it.
We've had a couple classes this year and a few talks that no one went to.
Apart from GARC the community isn't using us. They haven't been since well
before the interpersonal disputes boiled over. If we want to fulfill our
mission we need to step up our game.
So while the questions asked were directed at AJ9, like you suggest, we
should all reflect on them.
regards,
Andrew L
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 7:51 PM, Steve Radonich IV
nesfr...@outlook.comwrote:
If that is the case Andrew then my reworded proposal meets the
qualifications to be consented on Tuesday. Because that is what I remember
as well
--- Original Message ---
From: a l leit...@gmail.com
Sent: May 15, 2014 7:49 PM
To: SYN/HAK discussion list discuss@synhak.org
Subject: Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting Minutes 5/13/14
My understanding, and how we've been operating, is that proposals
need to be discussed either on discuss@ or brought up at a meeting and
recorded in the minutes. Once those present have a wording they feel
represents the solution they are looking for it is sent to proposals@ or
brought up at a meeting and recorded in the precise wording to be
consented.
At least week after it has been proposed it is consented on at the
meeting and forever enshrined in the 'approved proposals' list.
The important step here are that the exact wording of the proposal is
sent to a mailing list accessible by the community so that any dissenting
views may be addressed. I believe proposals@ was spun off of discuss@ so
people were aware that mail from that list was the 'finalized' wording.
I wasn't aware I was having trouble seeing proposals?
regards,
Andrew L
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:17 AM, Andrew Buczko
a4s...@dsprototyping.comwrote:
Hey Andrew,
On https://synhak.org/wiki/Unified_SYNHAK_Code
it says that:
6. Proposals must be sent in full to discuss@synhak.org
But, on:
https://synhak.org/wiki/Proposals
it says:
2. A summary of the discussion is sent to propos...@synhak.org along
with the actual proposal.
Witch is it? One of these statements is wrong and needs to be changed.
Also,
Maybe this is why you are having trouble seeing the proposals ?
Andy
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 12:34 AM, a l leit...@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry for the double post. I didn't want my comments to get
mistaken as meeting minutes. I tried to put headings on things in case
people didn't want to read a lengthy email
1) Apparently I wasn't clear with my wording regarding Wills membership.
I ('the secretary') did not say that 'Everything is ok, and last weeks vote
is upheld.. What I said was Last week was a fairly involved interview,
you don't need to do that again. Be sure his(and AJ9's) memberships get
brought up. Meaning his membership needs voted/consented on properly
Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting Minutes 5/13/14
have legitamate concerns but no one has replied. No one has told me why I should as Treasurer be forced to deal with extra concerns. These are not valid. Becca - Is that pretty much a summation? Torrie - Yes. Becca - Anyone want to address direct comment? AJ9 - Justin - I can put this to bed. Steve - You should have to deal with it because it was your job. Paul - If I was Torrie I'd feel attacked. I'm not hearing this is what happneded and this is what I want to do. If you have unresolved issues it's your fault. The majority of comments have been bad or covertly bad but not moving forward. Nothing positive will hapopoen untill all parties aggree. Principles before personalities. I'm lacking that this evening. Why would anyone show up if people are going to get put in that meeting. Everyone's got hurt feelings: action as opposed to words. Torrie:If you aren't happy with me I'm going to bail. I havent seen any positive tonight. Steve - This is about removal of Torrie proposal. She's got out and attacked people repeatedly. Paul - No one here are social butterflies. When Philip was talking about the young boy: is Torrie a law-breaker? No. yes, Torrie may have attacked people but that's between that person in Torrie. For God's sake, have a vote for or against a person. Steve - Public attacks are not something people should have to deal with. Torrie - Steve I'm sorry can we talk about this? Xander - des[pite unexcellence in the past, be excellent in the future. Torrie - How can we be productive? Xander - Make a proposal or have discussion in private. Steve - I get the whole 1-1 thing but it occured in a group and needs to be addressed in a group. Torrie - Has there been any call for mediation? Obviously I don't know what i've done wrong. Steve - Yes you do. How can you say it's not offensive when I'm not a transphobe? I have nothing against LGBT. Steve leaves. Justin - Summary: Steve is upset because he feels the other party isnt listening and isnt usuing sense. Phillip - I'd like to as a group sit down with binding arbitration. I want to see people contribute. I dont want people to leave. SO do something! Paul - As a nonmember, I'd volunteer my services over hiring a real mediator. Cause this is group therapy. I've got not no dog in this fight. Torrie - I will not be back until the 22. Justin - I want discuss problems with the website. Devin - There were also signs hung on the door and website graffitti. Justin - It is from a residential account. It points to a TDFisher web account. Torrie - What evidence do you have? Devin - *reads sign about 24/7 surveillance* Torrie - Have you considered others are upset? - We want to make sure whoever is doing that knows it is bad. Xander - If you're doing that please stop. Meeting is adhurned by Xander On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:01 AM, Andrew Buczko a4s...@dsprototyping.comwrote: I think someone said said something about the WIFI was loading slow. I suggested that he mail it to the list so at least it's here. On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:22 PM, Steve Radonich IV nesfr...@outlook.com wrote: I can load it on my phone but not my computers --- Original Message --- From: Robert Rybicki rob...@robertrybicki.com Sent: May 13, 2014 11:22 PM To: SYN/HAK discussion list discuss@synhak.org Subject: Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting Minutes 5/13/14 What is the status of the website? I have heard from some that it is down but it has been working for me and G said it worked for him. Is this a selective DOS attack? Rob Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2014, at 7:53 PM, William Schaffer wschaff...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, here are the meeting minutes for today's meeting 5/13/14. I was not able to upload them to the website because of its status, so I've attached them to this email as I was instructed. Please note that Steve took notes for the first part of the meeting, and that I took notes for the last part of the meeting. If you have any questions, please let me know! Thanks, -Will -- Very Respectfully, William G. Schaffer 330-752-3328 The University of Akron minutes ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting Minutes 5/13/14
Fiona,
Shoot an email to discuss-unsubscr...@synhak.org this will send an email back
letting you know you where unsubscribe.
Thanks,
Alex Kot
-Original Message-
From: Fiona Casida fcas...@gmail.com
Sent: 5/15/2014 9:29 PM
To: SYN/HAK discussion list discuss@synhak.org
Subject: Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting Minutes 5/13/14
Good evening,
Would you please remove me from the list? Thank you.
I wish you all the best.
Fiona Casida
Sent from my iPhone
On May 15, 2014, at 9:05 PM, a l leit...@gmail.com wrote:
Becca,
I figured the minutes didn't accurately capture the moment. I agree that
interviews have been lax and even rushed in the past. It's obvious that there
are differing views on how we run and how we should run. Members new and old
should have some, at least casual, knowledge of how we govern and what our
mission and community goals are.
Everyone,
Sure we hack and do-ocracy things but what does that mean? How do you balance
do-ocracy with not crushing people's toes. In the past we were operating fairly
smoothly. Part of that is due to the small size but a bigger part of that was a
clearer sense of who we were as a community. It would be simple if we could
pile all of our faults onto the actions of a few, or single person, over the
past few months. The current state is a symptom of a general failure of us as a
community.
As Becca touched on these events are the culmination of a long history of banal
interviews and little clear direction. We say our mission at the beginning of
every meeting but do we really do what we tell everyone we do. We've got the
infrastructure but our community doesn't follow a coherent set of values. Some
people want voting, some want consensus, others just want to throw money at a
cool idea so they can use the tools once a month and help out with expenses.
Others still are confused as to why we collectively need to provide educational
outlets to the public. We as a community have lost our way, maybe we never
really had it.
We've had a couple classes this year and a few talks that no one went to. Apart
from GARC the community isn't using us. They haven't been since well before
the interpersonal disputes boiled over. If we want to fulfill our mission we
need to step up our game.
So while the questions asked were directed at AJ9, like you suggest, we should
all reflect on them.
regards,
Andrew L
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 7:51 PM, Steve Radonich IV nesfr...@outlook.com wrote:
If that is the case Andrew then my reworded proposal meets the qualifications
to be consented on Tuesday. Because that is what I remember as well
--- Original Message ---
From: a l leit...@gmail.com
Sent: May 15, 2014 7:49 PM
To: SYN/HAK discussion list discuss@synhak.org
Subject: Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting Minutes 5/13/14
My understanding, and how we've been operating, is that proposals need to be
discussed either on discuss@ or brought up at a meeting and recorded in the
minutes. Once those present have a wording they feel represents the solution
they are looking for it is sent to proposals@ or brought up at a meeting and
recorded in the precise wording to be consented.
At least week after it has been proposed it is consented on at the meeting and
forever enshrined in the 'approved proposals' list.
The important step here are that the exact wording of the proposal is sent to a
mailing list accessible by the community so that any dissenting views may be
addressed. I believe proposals@ was spun off of discuss@ so people were aware
that mail from that list was the 'finalized' wording.
I wasn't aware I was having trouble seeing proposals?
regards,
Andrew L
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 2:17 AM, Andrew Buczko a4s...@dsprototyping.com wrote:
Hey Andrew,
On https://synhak.org/wiki/Unified_SYNHAK_Code
it says that:
6. Proposals must be sent in full to discuss@synhak.org
But, on:
https://synhak.org/wiki/Proposals
it says:
2. A summary of the discussion is sent to propos...@synhak.org along with the
actual proposal.
Witch is it? One of these statements is wrong and needs to be changed.
Also,
Maybe this is why you are having trouble seeing the proposals ?
Andy
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 12:34 AM, a l leit...@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry for the double post. I didn't want my comments to get mistaken as meeting
minutes. I tried to put headings on things in case people didn't want to read a
lengthy email
1) Apparently I wasn't clear with my wording regarding Wills membership. I
('the secretary') did not say that 'Everything is ok, and last weeks vote is
upheld.. What I said was Last week was a fairly involved interview, you don't
need to do that again. Be sure his(and AJ9's) memberships get brought up.
Meaning his membership needs voted/consented on properly at this meeting.
That said: no one expressed any desire to block his joining and no one
protested at the meeting.
2) While AJ9's interview was a bit hostile
Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting Minutes 5/13/14
why I should as Treasurer be forced to deal with extra concerns. These are not valid. Becca - Is that pretty much a summation? Torrie - Yes. Becca - Anyone want to address direct comment? AJ9 - Justin - I can put this to bed. Steve - You should have to deal with it because it was your job. Paul - If I was Torrie I'd feel attacked. I'm not hearing this is what happneded and this is what I want to do. If you have unresolved issues it's your fault. The majority of comments have been bad or covertly bad but not moving forward. Nothing positive will hapopoen untill all parties aggree. Principles before personalities. I'm lacking that this evening. Why would anyone show up if people are going to get put in that meeting. Everyone's got hurt feelings: action as opposed to words. Torrie:If you aren't happy with me I'm going to bail. I havent seen any positive tonight. Steve - This is about removal of Torrie proposal. She's got out and attacked people repeatedly. Paul - No one here are social butterflies. When Philip was talking about the young boy: is Torrie a law-breaker? No. yes, Torrie may have attacked people but that's between that person in Torrie. For God's sake, have a vote for or against a person. Steve - Public attacks are not something people should have to deal with. Torrie - Steve I'm sorry can we talk about this? Xander - des[pite unexcellence in the past, be excellent in the future. Torrie - How can we be productive? Xander - Make a proposal or have discussion in private. Steve - I get the whole 1-1 thing but it occured in a group and needs to be addressed in a group. Torrie - Has there been any call for mediation? Obviously I don't know what i've done wrong. Steve - Yes you do. How can you say it's not offensive when I'm not a transphobe? I have nothing against LGBT. Steve leaves. Justin - Summary: Steve is upset because he feels the other party isnt listening and isnt usuing sense. Phillip - I'd like to as a group sit down with binding arbitration. I want to see people contribute. I dont want people to leave. SO do something! Paul - As a nonmember, I'd volunteer my services over hiring a real mediator. Cause this is group therapy. I've got not no dog in this fight. Torrie - I will not be back until the 22. Justin - I want discuss problems with the website. Devin - There were also signs hung on the door and website graffitti. Justin - It is from a residential account. It points to a TDFisher web account. Torrie - What evidence do you have? Devin - *reads sign about 24/7 surveillance* Torrie - Have you considered others are upset? - We want to make sure whoever is doing that knows it is bad. Xander - If you're doing that please stop. Meeting is adhurned by Xander On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:01 AM, Andrew Buczko a4s...@dsprototyping.comwrote: I think someone said said something about the WIFI was loading slow. I suggested that he mail it to the list so at least it's here. On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:22 PM, Steve Radonich IV nesfr...@outlook.comwrote: I can load it on my phone but not my computers --- Original Message --- From: Robert Rybicki rob...@robertrybicki.com Sent: May 13, 2014 11:22 PM To: SYN/HAK discussion list discuss@synhak.org Subject: Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting Minutes 5/13/14 What is the status of the website? I have heard from some that it is down but it has been working for me and G said it worked for him. Is this a selective DOS attack? Rob Sent from my iPhone On May 13, 2014, at 7:53 PM, William Schaffer wschaff...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, here are the meeting minutes for today's meeting 5/13/14. I was not able to upload them to the website because of its status, so I've attached them to this email as I was instructed. Please note that Steve took notes for the first part of the meeting, and that I took notes for the last part of the meeting. If you have any questions, please let me know! Thanks, -Will -- Very Respectfully, William G. Schaffer 330-752-3328 The University of Akron minutes ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting Minutes 5/13/14
Andrew,
To address a few points in your email:
Your point 2:
The interview was not a bit hostile but was blatantly hostile toward AJ9 in a
way that gave the impression that Torrie was looking for some sort of
confrontation. I actually applaud AJ9's composure throughout the ordeal and
find Torrie attitude, not questions, despicable.
Your point 3:
I actually agree with this, I feel it is too important of a group to just be
done without some sort of proposal and approval by the membership as a whole.
Your point 5:
I believe Justin gave evidence to support the claim of the webpage.
I don't disagree with you on issues to disagree, just wanted to provide some
light on things and give my experience of the situations.
-Steve
--- Original Message ---
From: a l leit...@gmail.com
Sent: May 15, 2014 12:34 AM
To: SYN/HAK discussion list discuss@synhak.org
Subject: Re: [SH-Discuss] Meeting Minutes 5/13/14
Sorry for the double post. I didn't want my comments to get mistaken as
meeting minutes. I tried to put headings on things in case people didn't
want to read a lengthy email
1) Apparently I wasn't clear with my wording regarding Wills membership. I
('the secretary') did not say that 'Everything is ok, and last weeks vote
is upheld.. What I said was Last week was a fairly involved interview,
you don't need to do that again. Be sure his(and AJ9's) memberships get
brought up. Meaning his membership needs voted/consented on properly at
this meeting.
That said: no one expressed any desire to block his joining and no one
protested at the meeting.
2) While AJ9's interview was a bit hostile those are important questions
that need asked more frequently by more people. If someone has no idea how
or why we govern the way we do how can we expect them to follow the rules
and help build a better community? Perhaps you could respond to the some of
the questions via email? Particularly consensus and do-ocracy. Feel free
disagree with them! We're an organic collaboration(or at least bill
ourselves as such), we won't grow if we don't get new ideas. On that note,
I'm going to add a question of my own: You mention you're interested in
non-profit work and need a cause to work with right now. What draws you to
SynHak compared to the other non-profits in the area?
3)Regarding the Community Working Group. There is already a proposal that a
few people have contributed ideas to. I feel that since this changes the
way we govern ourselves that it does warrant a full blown proposal. If we
want the suggestions to carry any weight when they are made it needs to be
part of the operating procedures. Xander brought up the idea of formalizing
the face to face mediation style and incorporating it into the proposal.
Having a few mediation templates is a great idea. My only concern is that
we not require them to be used. Getting the disputing parties to
communicate is goal 1A. How they do it is less important so long as they
both agree to it and it occurs in a timely manner.
I'm not convinced that using fractal groups will help. We are(were?) a
community, intentionally dividing us further seems counter productive and
bureaucratic. By having more mailing lists to subscribe to it makes it far
easier for a member to be out of the loop on things that may affect them.
People are lazy.
4) The front door. The landlord has told us not to modify it. Would we be
able to convince him to change his mind if we(or a mutually approved
price-quoted-prior-to-work contractor) replaced it in such a manner that
did not prevent the easy re-installation of the original door? We need to
balance our members physical safety with their perception of safety. By
installing a door with a push bar we could still 'lock' the door so outside
entry was not possible during the odd hours but in the event of a fire you
could get out.
5) If we're going to assign blame and distribute penalties to someone for
various signs, graffiti and other unexcellent behavior I want verified
proof.
6) Last one I promise. Will's key application. You're a new member and a
new face to the community. I like your enthusiasm and apologize that this
is going to come off as an attack, it is not. You want the keys to the
castle but a couple meetings back you were concerned with not knowing
anyone. 24/7 is a lot of trust. Not only that our key holders won't strip
the warehouse for machines and copper but that they'll lock up when they
leave and be excellent hosts to visitors from the public. I don't expect
everyone to know every other member as best friends but I find it hard to
put faith in someone we've just met.
Admittedly my recent and future attendance is lackluster so I welcome
people's anecdotes to instill faith in me about this.
One last time: None of the above are meant to be personal attacks. If any
wording can be construed as such I would appreciate it if you attribute to
poor proofreading, failure to appreciate the situation, and hasty word
choice.
regards,
Andrew L
On Wed
[SH-Discuss] Meeting Minutes 5/13/14
Hi all, here are the meeting minutes for today's meeting 5/13/14. I was not able to upload them to the website because of its status, so I've attached them to this email as I was instructed. Please note that Steve took notes for the first part of the meeting, and that I took notes for the last part of the meeting. If you have any questions, please let me know! Thanks, -Will -- Very Respectfully, William G. Schaffer 330-752-3328 The University of Akron minutes Description: Binary data ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
