from:"Rowland Penny"

On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 22:18 +0200, Antony Stone wrote:
> On Friday 30 July 2021 at 22:04:28, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 07:13:43PM +0100, Rowland Penny via Dng
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > This is sort of what I was getting at, English is a language that
> > > changes over time, unfortunately not all English speaking nations
> > > keep
> > > up, for instance, this is the correct English way to spell
> > > 'colour', it
> > > certainly isn't 'color'. We also have a habit of having letters
> > > in
> > > words that we do not pronounce, 'pterosaur' for instance :-)
> > 
> > But it's *fun* pronouncing both the p and the t.
> 
> Who in their right mind would pronounce the 't' in that :) ?

Just about everyone in England, it is the 'p' that you do not
pronounce. Unless you are actually referring to the 'that' on the end
of your sentence, in which case 'ha' :-D

> 
> 
> German pronounces all the letters in a word, in as consistent a way
> as 
> possible.

They would.

> 
> French pronounces as few of the letters in a word as it can get away
> with.

Terrible language, we stole the best parts of their language.

> 
> English pronounces most, but not all, of the letters in a word, in as
> many 
> different ways as possible.

How about the name 'Cholmondeley ' which is pronounced 'Chumley'

Rowland


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Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language

On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 13:55 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote:
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 1:13 PM Rowland Penny via Dng <
> dng@lists.dyne.org> wrote:
> > On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 13:57 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> > > Hendrik Boom said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:31:26 -0400>
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > And it's kind of amazing how these different versions have
> > > > grammatical
> > > > differences, not kust spelling and vocabulary.
> > > > 
> > > > Unfortunately, it's currently not accessible, so I can't give
> > you
> > > > any 
> > > > examples.
> > > 
> > > London: He's in hospital.
> > > 
> > > Chicago: He's in the hospital.
> > > 
> > > I'm from America, so when I hear a noun used without an article,
> > it's
> > > like fingernails on a blackboard (or for those too young to know
> > what
> > > a
> > > blackboard is, nasty screeching out of a malfunctioning sound
> > card).
> > > 
> > 
> > This is sort of what I was getting at, English is a language that
> > changes over time, unfortunately not all English speaking nations
> > keep
> > up, for instance, this is the correct English way to spell
> > 'colour', it
> > certainly isn't 'color'. We also have a habit of having letters in
> > words that we do not pronounce, 'pterosaur' for instance :-)
> > 
> 
> Even more challenging imo - - - - a letter group that has 8 different
> pronunciations
> - - - don't believe me (rough, slough, slough, though, cough, bough,
> ough, 
> through) - - - - there are even more (!) how's that for
> totally asinine! 

No, that's just English, at least we don't describe things as male or
female as some of the European languages do.

Rowland


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Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language

On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 13:57 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> Hendrik Boom said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:31:26 -0400
> 
> 
> > And it's kind of amazing how these different versions have
> > grammatical
> > differences, not kust spelling and vocabulary.
> > 
> > Unfortunately, it's currently not accessible, so I can't give you
> > any 
> > examples.
> 
> London: He's in hospital.
> 
> Chicago: He's in the hospital.
> 
> I'm from America, so when I hear a noun used without an article, it's
> like fingernails on a blackboard (or for those too young to know what
> a
> blackboard is, nasty screeching out of a malfunctioning sound card).
> 

This is sort of what I was getting at, English is a language that
changes over time, unfortunately not all English speaking nations keep
up, for instance, this is the correct English way to spell 'colour', it
certainly isn't 'color'. We also have a habit of having letters in
words that we do not pronounce, 'pterosaur' for instance :-)

Rowland

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Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language

On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 11:59 +0200, John Hughes wrote:
> On 30/07/2021 09:39, Rowland Penny via Dng wrote:
> > No, Chaucer == Old English
> > There is no one in England that speaks Old English in normal life
> > 
> > You are quite right though, the only real English is from England,
> > the
> > rest are derivatives.
> > 
> Really?  Where in England?
> 
> What does this phrase mean:
> 
>  Wait while lights flash.
> 
> In most of the country it means "wait here if the lights are
> flashing".  
> In Yorkshire (England) it can mean "wait here until the lights
> flash".

Well yes, but then people from yorkshire can be a bit retarded :-D

> 
> Are these English:
> 
>  "Is Jimmy laking out today?"

No, Jimmy cannot play today

> 
>  "Tha thee-tha's them that thee-tha's thee".
> 
> ?

Sithee lad, that's a lot of 'the'

Rowland


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Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language

On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 11:56 +0200, Harald Arnesen wrote:
> Rowland Penny via Dng [30.07.2021 09:39]:
> 
> > No, Chaucer == Old English
> > There is no one in England that speaks Old English in normal life
> > 
> > You are quite right though, the only real English is from England,
> > the
> > rest are derivatives.
> 
> "Real English" have a multitude of variants - Cockney, Yorkshire
> Dales,
> Cornwall,... - or do you mean "The Queen's English"?

They are all dialects, not variants and Cornwall has its own Celtic
language.

Cockney is a 'slang' language (apples and pears: stairs)

I will not comment on yorkshire, but it is similar to the 'lanky'
dialect I can speak, but do not normally use.

The Queen's English is also known as 'received pronunciation' and is
only used by the BBC and those idiots in the south of England.

Rowland

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Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language

On Thu, 2021-07-29 at 18:07 -0400, . via Dng wrote:
> On 7/29/21 6:00 AM, dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote:
> > American != English
> > 
> > Rowland
> 
> Also,
> 
> British != English
> 
> Canadian != English
> 
> Indian != English
> 
> Australian != English
> 
> Ugandan != English
> 
> 
> Chaucer == English

No, Chaucer == Old English
There is no one in England that speaks Old English in normal life

You are quite right though, the only real English is from England, the
rest are derivatives.

Rowland 



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Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language

2021-07-28 Thread Rowland Penny via Dng

On Wed, 2021-07-28 at 17:48 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE via Dng said on Wed, 28 Jul 2021 16:42:51 -0400
> 
> > On Mittwoch, 28. Juli 2021 15:47:24 -04 Steve Litt wrote:
> > > Hendrik Boom said on Wed, 28 Jul 2021 07:04:10 -0400
> > >   
> > > > On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 12:06:46PM +0200, Antony Stone wrote in
> > > > the
> > > > signature:
> > > > 
> > > > I was aware of chips, pavement, and pissed.
> > > > The confusion about pint and gallon is why I prefer litres.
> > > > 
> > > > But I do not know how the others differ.  
> > > 
> > > Don't forget Southern California Coastal English:
> > > 
> > > - Ate it
> > > - Ate concrete
> > > - Wiped out
> > > - Got Maytagged
> > > - Faceplant
> > > - Roadrash
> > > - Stoked
> > > - Gnarly (antideluvian from 80's)
> > > 
> > > SteveT
> > >   
> > Please be so kind as to translate for the uniniciated.
> > (1 Corinthians 14:27, 28) . . .And if someone speaks in a tongue,
> > let
> > it be limited to two or three at the most, and in turns, and
> > someone
> > must interpret. But if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent
> > in
> > the congregation . . .
> 
> - Ate it: Fell down, presumably while trying something challenging on
> a
>   skateboard, roller skates, bicycle, surf board, or while body
> surfing.
> 
> - Ate concrete: Subset of ate it: Fell off a bicycle, roller skates
> or
>   skateboard, onto concrete. Typically results in road rash.
> 
> - Wiped out: Synonym for ate it.
> 
> - Got Maytagged: While surfing or body surfing, when the wave crashes
>   on top of you and whirls you around vertically.
> 
> - Faceplant: Ate it, landing on your face.
> 
> - Roadrash: Removal of the first, and some of the second layers of
> skin
>   after eating concrete.
> 
> - Stoked: Happy, satisfied
> 
> - Gnarly (antideluvian from 80's): Sort of like "awesome", but also
>   meaning either difficult and probably dangerous, or doing something
>   difficult, and probably dangerous.
> 
> Partial sample paragraph: Deeeddd, shooting that gnarly part
> of Sepulveda Pass today on my longboard, I ate it big time, so now I
> have roadrash from my chest to my toes. At least I didn't do a
> faceplant like last week. To forget my troubles, I went body surfing
> at
> Venice, caught a gnarly eight footer, and got maytagged. Now I'm
> stoked.
> 
> 
> Hey deeeddd, doncha understand English, man?

No, because it wasn't English :-)

American != English

Rowland


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Re: [DNG] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed

2021-07-26 Thread Rowland Penny via Dng

On Mon, 2021-07-26 at 16:33 +, g4sra via Dng wrote:
> On Monday, July 26th, 2021 at 4:48 PM, Steve Litt <
> sl...@troubleshooters.com> wrote:
> > Andreas Messer said on Mon, 26 Jul 2021 09:38:23 +0200
> > 
> > > My feeling is, that you can not simply teach someone how to write
> > > safe software.
> > Why not? You can teach a person to do anything else. But maybe not
> > in
> > college, because college is built to make money, not to teach.
> > Consider
> > the average textbook and compare to the average "For Dummies" book.
> > The
> > former makes the subject matter look incredibly complex, justifying
> > the
> > professor. The latter makes it easy to learn.
> > What is needed is a curated document explaining the five or ten or
> > twenty things you need to do to be secure, and then how to achieve
> > them
> > in a practical world.
> Software is far too complex to be audited by following a fixed set of
> generic rules,
> otherwise someone would have already written software that can do
> exactly that.
> We have some tools, but they are incomplete and fallible.
> 
> The personality of the individual is key, which is why not anyone can
> learn to program safely.
> I witnessed an individual sail through and get top marks at college,
> they had an eidetic mind.
> They could recall any fact they had been told\read instantly and
> accurately.
> But they had no creativity and could be easily tripped up with the
> simplest of problems if they had not seen it before. 
> 
> 
> > Let's start with input field cleansing and
> > protection from errant pointers and buffer overflow. There are many
> > more:
> Yeah, that's what they taught me at college :).
> 
> > It takes some effort to learn, but I doubt it's rocket science
> Which is why they call it Computer Science, it's harder.
> Rocket Science has a formula for everything, even the top AI experts
> cannot formulate the intricacies of a Neural Net program.
> 
> > and one certainly doesn't need to come from a family who can fund
> > college plus living expenses for 4 years, or 7, or whatever.
> Agreed, we must have all at least heard of Kevin Mitnick, 

There you go with assumptions, something you should never do. I have
absolutely no idea who Kevin Mitnick is, I had never heard that name
until you posted it.

Rowland

> who as a teenager learnt from his dad, a security expert.
> How executing software processes what you enter into it is as much a
> security concern as the source code.
> > SteveT
> 
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Re: [DNG] ..maybe webmin?, was: Cockpit removal might make sense

2021-06-10 Thread Rowland penny via Dng


On 10/06/2021 10:36, Curtis Maurand via Dng wrote:

If you’re looking at something  like zentyal, you could look at HPE’s clearos 
as well.  there is a free version.  It does all the things that zentyal does.  
it’s only drawback is that it’s based on centos and it’s laced with systemd.



One thing clearos cannot do that zentyal can, it cannot be an AD DC.

Rowland


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Re: [DNG] Cockpit removal might make sense

2021-05-25 Thread Rowland penny via Dng

On 25/05/2021 17:09, Tomasz Torcz wrote:

Dnia Tue, May 25, 2021 at 04:53:29PM +0100, Rowland penny via Dng napisał(a):

After installing it on an fresh Beowulf installation, it does not run
and to my knowledge will never be able to w/o systemd sockets.

IIRC, the policy is not to remove anything related, but use stubs and
let the user deal with half-broken software (ie. GNOME). Cockpit doesn't
(currently) have dependencies on systemd and it's modules, but it
requires a systemd socket to function. So, AFAICT, it is not even
partially usable.

Why would you want to remove something that works ?

Have you seen Cockpit working on Devuan system?

Yes, I had it running on my old Samba AD DC's and I now have it running
on a Devuan Unix domain member on my way to installing the Samba AD DC
module.

There are minor problems, red-hat seems to think the only way to join to
a domain is via realmd and sssd and you cannot use either with Samba >=
4.8.0

It just needs an init script.

It's more than that. Cockpit uses systemd's API not only to listen on
network socket, but also to manage services and other stuff.
Just starting Cockpit without systemd requires helpers like
https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit/commit/777c59095af6147af487bf6a5aa76b915b2463d6
It probably not worth (or even feasible) reimplemnting all those APIs
for Cockpit.

You might be correct, but it works for what I require 

Rowland

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Re: [DNG] Cockpit removal might make sense

2021-05-25 Thread Rowland penny via Dng


On 25/05/2021 05:42, Simon Walter wrote:

Hi all,

I wanted to see if Cockpit would by some unknown magic run on Devuan. 
The reason I wanted to do this is because the packages are available 
in the default repos.


After installing it on an fresh Beowulf installation, it does not run 
and to my knowledge will never be able to w/o systemd sockets.


So, may I suggest that it is removed from the default repos, as it is 
misleading for beginners and may lead to unnecessary bug reports.


IIRC, the policy is not to remove anything related, but use stubs and 
let the user deal with half-broken software (ie. GNOME). Cockpit 
doesn't (currently) have dependencies on systemd and it's modules, but 
it requires a systemd socket to function. So, AFAICT, it is not even 
partially usable.


Best regards,

Simon
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Why would you want to remove something that works ?

It just needs an init script.

Rowland


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Re: [DNG] if2mac init.d service for persistent network interface names

2020-12-24 Thread Rowland penny via Dng


On 24/12/2020 15:37, aitor wrote:

does the output in the command line matches your desired order?


Continuing with our English academy: does it match


'does the command line output match your desired order ?'

Also, do not get me started on the use of the word 'since' by non native 
English speakers. 


Rowland


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Re: [DNG] Historical note on double negation.

2020-12-24 Thread Rowland penny via Dng


On 24/12/2020 14:49, Hendrik Boom wrote:

On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 10:30:58AM +0100, aitor wrote:

On 24/12/20 10:23, aitor wrote:

neither the mouse nor the keyboard didn't respond

Mmm..., this is a double denial. Neither the mouse nor the keyboard could
respond?

Agreed.  Happy to see neither..nor used.  Sometimes that's the clearest way to
say something.

But I'd have said "neither the mouse nor the keyboard responded".
I would have just said 'the mouse nor the keyboard responded' or 
'neither the mouse or the keyboard responded', no need for 'neither and 
'nor'.


This seems to be the prevailing English convention about double negation
nowadays -- that a double negation is a positive.

Historical note:

But there's an older convention (which I've heard dates back to Old English
and is common in other modern languages) where a double negation is used for
emphasis.

As in,

I ain't seen nothing!
Well it might be if "ain't" was a proper word, in fact, the whole 
sentence is gibberish, I personally would say 'I didn't see anything'.


This convention, which is perfectly understandable, was stamped out of
educated usage bu grammarians who slammed their understanding of Latin grammar
onto English which until than had a quite different grammer.

Another such an example is
John and me went swimming.
Here 'and' serves as a preposition.  Again, not Latin grammar.
And this has led fo confusion, when students misunderstand the new
Latin-inspired rules and start to treat 'and' as a preposition taking -- of
all things -- the nominative and end up with
He gave the ball to John and I.
The problem is that there are millions of People who speak English 
(which is not to be confused with what they speak in the USA), but there 
only a relative few that try to make the rules and they keep trying to 
change them.


Long live the complexities of evolving languages!


Which only makes sense if they evolve in a sensible way 

Rowland

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Re: [DNG] samba/NAS box problem

2020-12-01 Thread Rowland penny via Dng


On 01/12/2020 16:25, Fred wrote:

Hello,

I have a DNS321 NAS box on my local network and samba/cifs to access 
it.  When I upgraded from Debian Jessie to i386 Beowulf the DNS321 was 
no longer accessible by samba.


fred@ragnok:~$ mount /mnt/dns321
Password for fred@//192.168.42.32/Volume_1:
mount error(112): Host is down
Refer to the mount.cifs(8) manual page (e.g. man mount.cifs)

This is the /etc/fstab entry:
//192.168.42.32/Volume_1 /mnt/dns321 cifs rw,user 0 0

The dsn321 is accessible with ftp.
The mount.cifs manual pages had lots of interesting options but I 
didn't see any clue about what might be the problem.


Where would one look up error(112) to find out what it means?
Best regards,
Fred
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This undoubtedly down to SMBv1 (or rather the lack of it), try adding 
'vers=1.0' to the cifs options in /etc/fstab


Rowland


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Re: [DNG] Error installing samba in beowulf


On 31/08/2020 22:29, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote:
It is the same the low internet for the pc and from there I update 
since so I can use it on pc that do not have internet access

what I only use:

deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main contrib non-free

but it is giving me problems updating samba, maybe they are waiting to 
upload the packages from

deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main contrib non-free
or
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates main contrib non-free
or
deb http://deb.devuan.org/devuan beowulf-proposed main contrib non-free

You need all of the lines I posted, 'samba 4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u1' is now 
coming from security


Rowland


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Re: [DNG] Error installing samba in beowulf


On 31/08/2020 22:16, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote:

Best Regards
--
Ismael
Devuan User: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=devuan
- Original Message - From: "Dimitris via Dng" 


To: 
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: [DNG] Error installing samba in beowulf



what about beowulf-security repo? are you syncing all beowulf 
repos/dists ?


no, just the main repository
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main contrib non-free


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This is what I have in /etc/apt/sources.list

deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main contrib non-free
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main contrib non-free
deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-updates main contrib non-free
deb http://deb.devuan.org/devuan beowulf-proposed main contrib non-free

I do not have your problem, but I am not running a local repository ;-)

Rowland


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Re: [DNG] Error installing samba in beowulf


On 31/08/2020 21:53, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote:
I moved the repository to http://deb.devuan.org/merged// and it 
follows the same problem that does not allow me to install samba from 
an installation made with devuan_beowulf_3.0.0_amd64-desktop.iso


root@clt-iyc-03:/mnt/datos/sistemas/linux/devuan# sh rdbeowulf.sh
== 

Actualizando los repositorios DEVUAN 'beowulf'; main/debian-installer, 
main, contrib, non-free
== 



Mirroring to /mnt/datos/sistemas/linux/devuan/beowulf from 
http://deb.devuan.org/merged//

Arches: i386,amd64
Dists: beowulf
Sections: main/debian-installer,main,contrib,non-free
Pdiff mode: none
Will clean up after mirroring.
Attempting to get lock ...
Not able to use rsync to update remote trace files ...
Getting meta files ...
[  0%] Getting: dists/beowulf/Release...   #** GET 
http://deb.devuan.org/merged//dists/beowulf/Release ==> 200 OK (3s)

ok
[  0%] Getting: dists/beowulf/InRelease...   #** GET 
http://deb.devuan.org/merged//dists/beowulf/InRelease ==> 200 OK (1s)

ok
[  0%] Getting: dists/beowulf/Release.gpg...   #** GET 
http://deb.devuan.org/merged//dists/beowulf/Release.gpg ==> 200 OK (1s)

ok
[GNUPG:] ERROR add_keyblock_resource 33554433
[GNUPG:] NEWSIG
[GNUPG:] ERROR keydb_search 33554445
[GNUPG:] ERROR keydb_search 33554445
[GNUPG:] ERRSIG BB23C00C61FC752C 1 10 00 1598891740 9 
E032601B7CA10BC3EA53FA81BB23C00C61FC752C

[GNUPG:] NO_PUBKEY BB23C00C61FC752C
gpgv: unknown type of key resource 'trustedkeys.kbx'
gpgv: recurso de bloque de claves '/root/.gnupg/trustedkeys.kbx': 
Error general

gpgv: Firmado el lun 31 ago 2020 12:35:40 CDT
gpgv:    usando RSA clave 
E032601B7CA10BC3EA53FA81BB23C00C61FC752C

gpgv: Imposible comprobar la firma: No hay clave pública
.temp/.tmp/dists/beowulf/Release.gpg signature does not verify.
[GNUPG:] ERROR add_keyblock_resource 33554433
[GNUPG:] NEWSIG
[GNUPG:] ERROR keydb_search 33554445
[GNUPG:] ERROR keydb_search 33554445
[GNUPG:] ERRSIG BB23C00C61FC752C 1 10 01 1598891740 9 
E032601B7CA10BC3EA53FA81BB23C00C61FC752C

[GNUPG:] NO_PUBKEY BB23C00C61FC752C
gpgv: unknown type of key resource 'trustedkeys.kbx'
gpgv: recurso de bloque de claves '/root/.gnupg/trustedkeys.kbx': 
Error general

gpgv: Firmado el lun 31 ago 2020 12:35:40 CDT
gpgv:    usando RSA clave 
E032601B7CA10BC3EA53FA81BB23C00C61FC752C

gpgv: Imposible comprobar la firma: No hay clave pública
.temp/.tmp/dists/beowulf/InRelease signature does not verify.
[  0%] Getting: 
dists/beowulf/main/debian-installer/binary-i386/Packages.gz... #** GET 
http://deb.devuan.org/merged//dists/beowulf/main/debian-installer/binary-i386/Packages.gz 
==> 200 OK (3s)

ok
[  0%] Getting: 
dists/beowulf/main/debian-installer/binary-amd64/Packages.gz... #** 
GET 
http://deb.devuan.org/merged//dists/beowulf/main/debian-installer/binary-amd64/Packages.gz 
==> 200 OK (2s)

ok
[  1%] Getting: 
dists/beowulf/main/debian-installer/binary-all/Packages.gz... #** GET 
http://deb.devuan.org/merged//dists/beowulf/main/debian-installer/binary-all/Packages.gz 
==> 200 OK (1s)

ok
[  6%] Getting: dists/beowulf/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz... #** GET 
http://deb.devuan.org/merged//dists/beowulf/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz 
==> 200 OK (328s)

ok
[ 45%] Getting: dists/beowulf/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz... #** GET 
http://deb.devuan.org/merged//dists/beowulf/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz 
==> 200 OK (329s)

ok
[ 83%] Getting: dists/beowulf/main/binary-all/Packages.gz...   #** GET 
http://deb.devuan.org/merged//dists/beowulf/main/binary-all/Packages.gz 
==> 200 OK (155s)

ok
[ 99%] Getting: dists/beowulf/contrib/binary-i386/Packages.gz... #** 
GET 
http://deb.devuan.org/merged//dists/beowulf/contrib/binary-i386/Packages.gz 
==> 200 OK (3s)

ok
[ 99%] Getting: dists/beowulf/contrib/binary-amd64/Packages.gz...   
#** GET 
http://deb.devuan.org/merged//dists/beowulf/contrib/binary-amd64/Packages.gz 
==> 200 OK (2s)

ok
[ 99%] Getting: dists/beowulf/contrib/binary-all/Packages.gz... #** 
GET 
http://deb.devuan.org/merged//dists/beowulf/contrib/binary-all/Packages.gz 
==> 200 OK (1s)

ok
[ 99%] Getting: dists/beowulf/non-free/binary-i386/Packages.gz...   
#** GET 
http://deb.devuan.org/merged//dists/beowulf/non-free/binary-i386/Packages.gz 
==> 200 OK (3s)

ok
[ 99%] Getting: dists/beowulf/non-free/binary-amd64/Packages.gz...   
#** GET 
http://deb.devuan.org/merged//dists/beowulf/non-free/binary-amd64/Packages.gz 
==> 200 OK (3s)

ok
[100%] Getting: dists/beowulf/non-free/binary-all/Packages.gz... #** 
GET 
http://deb.devuan.org/merged//dists/beowulf/non-free/binary-all/Packages.gz 
==> 200 OK (2s)

ok
Parsing Packages and Sources files ...
Get Translation files ...
Get DEP-11 metadata files ...
Get command-not-found metadata files ...
Files to download: 0 B
Downloaded 25 MiB in 868s at 30.44 kiB/s.
Everything OK.

Re: [DNG] Error installing samba in beowulf


On 31/08/2020 21:00, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote:

I replenish between the lines

It has always worked for me (famous last words), is your sources.list 
file correct ? Have you run 'apt update' and 'apt upgrade' recently ?


Yes, I did it today

OK




How are you planning to run Samba ? (this has nothing to do with your 
present problem)


Are you going to run Samba as a DC or Unix domain member ? If so, 
don't bother installing sssd, you cannot use it with Samba any more, 
you will also require 'winbind' at least.


whether to join the PC to an Active Directory Windows Server 2016


You cannot use sssd with Samba, even red-hat admit this, you will need 
to install these packages:


samba winbind libnss-winbind libpam-winbind libpam-krb5 ntp krb5-user

You will also need to setup smb.conf correctly.



I have a local repository which I update from: pkgmaster.devuan.org


That could be your problem, I have lines in sources.list like this:

deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main contrib non-free

Once you get Samba to install, you should upgrade it, 4.9.5 is EOL from 
Samba's point of view, see here:


http://apt.van-belle.nl/

I know they are for Debian, but they work with Devuan.

Rowland



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Re: [DNG] Error installing samba in beowulf


On 31/08/2020 20:03, Ismael L. Donis Garcia wrote:

When I try to install samba it gives me the following error
root@ser-linux-01:~# apt-get install krb5-user samba sssd ntp 
openssh-server

Leyendo lista de paquetes... Hecho
Creando Arbol de dependencias
Leyendo la informacion de estado... Hecho
No se pudieron instalar algunos paquetes. Esto puede significar que
usted pidio una situacion imposible o, si esta¡ usando la distribucion
inestable, que algunos paquetes necesarios aun no se han creado o se
han sacado de «Incoming».
La siguiente informacion puede ayudar a resolver la situacion:
Los siguientes paquetes tienen dependencias incumplidas:
samba : Depende: python-samba pero no va a instalarse
Depende: samba-common-bin (= 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5) pero no va a instalarse
Depende: samba-libs (= 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5) pero 2:4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u1 va 
a ser instalado

Recomienda: attr pero no va a instalarse
Recomienda: samba-dsdb-modules pero no va a instalarse
Recomienda: samba-vfs-modules pero no va a instalarse
E: No se pudieron corregir los problemas, usted ha retenido paquetes 
rotos.

root@ser-linux-01 :~#


It has always worked for me (famous last words), is your sources.list 
file correct ? Have you run 'apt update' and 'apt upgrade' recently ?


How are you planning to run Samba ? (this has nothing to do with your 
present problem)


Are you going to run Samba as a DC or Unix domain member ? If so, don't 
bother installing sssd, you cannot use it with Samba any more, you will 
also require 'winbind' at least.


Rowland




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Re: [DNG] How to mount NTFS

2020-08-07 Thread Rowland penny via Dng


On 07/08/2020 17:19, Haines Brown wrote:

On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 04:57:18PM +0100, Rowland penny via Dng wrote:


It is extremely slow, but I am unsure just how slow, but 3-4 times slower
sounds about right.

Wow!
  

If the drive is never plugged into a Windows machine, then there is no point
in it being formatted as NTFS.

I do not have clients. I'm well past life expectancy, and so I need to
know that my grandchildren can simply plug the drive into a Windows
machine or Mac to access the files.


Ah, that is different and I asked that ;-)

If you are going to move the USB drive about, then, from a Windows point 
of view, you are going to have to stick to NTFS and put up with the slow 
speed, not sure about the Macs, I think they have their own version of 
ntfs-3g.





, but it would be better formatted with ext4 or another Linux
filesystem.

Yes, for sure. If you are right about the speed difference between
NTFS and ext4, then is there another FS that can be accessed by a
Windows machine that is not much slower than ext4?


Windows being Windows, you are stuck with NTFS or exfat etc

You could always set up Samba and share the files with that, that would 
allow you to use ext4 and all your clients (grandchildren) should be 
able to connect to the shares, that I can help you set up.


Life expectancy is what you make it and I am catching up ;-)

Rowland


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Re: [DNG] How to mount NTFS

2020-08-07 Thread Rowland penny via Dng


On 07/08/2020 16:46, Haines Brown wrote:

On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 03:58:40PM +0100, Rowland penny via Dng wrote:


Do you use the USB drive on Windows, if not, just reformat it to ext4,
ntfs-3g is a FUSE system, it isn't a fast as you would like.

Thanks Roland. I left the drive NTFS because I wanted easy access
to the drive for folks (granschildren) who do not run Linux.

Othersie I prefer ext4. When you say NTFS is slower, to you mean three
times slower (which I am experiencing) or a bit slower?

When my mount command in script encounters an already mounted device
formatted ext4 it complains but also proceeds. If the defive is
formattted NTFS it complains but also and hangs. That is another
reason to prefer ext4, but I wonder if the # mount -F would avoid the
NTFS hang. That is, does NTFS mount exclusively by deault, while ext4
does not?

It is extremely slow, but I am unsure just how slow, but 3-4 times 
slower sounds about right.


If the drive is never plugged into a Windows machine, then there is no 
point in it being formatted as NTFS. If your clients are connecting over 
the wire via your Linux OS to the USB drive, then it doesn't matter what 
it is formatted, but it would be better formatted with ext4 or another 
Linux filesystem.


Rowland

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Re: [DNG] How to mount NTFS

2020-08-07 Thread Rowland penny via Dng


On 07/08/2020 15:47, Haines Brown wrote:

Cron automatiically backs up some partitions on my HD by means of a
script. Not sure  of the size of thse backupos, but perhaps 300 Mb.

I have been doing the backups to an external WD USB drive, and they
took around 3 hours. However, I became nervous about the condition of
the drive which is quite old, and so bought a 2 Tb replacement. Now
the back up takes 10 hours.

The only thing that I can think of that might account for its being
slow is that my old WD drive was formatted ext4, but I thought best to
leave my new drive with NTFS.

This causes a problem in that if the backup drive happens to be
mounted, the mount command in my script no longer just tells me so
and proceeds with the backup, but instead hangs.

The other problem may be that for some reason the disk being NTFS
drastically slows the backup. So it occurred to me to make the command
in the script to mount the drive: mount -t ntfs /mnt/backup (I have
the drive's UUID in fstab). But when I check /proc/filesystems, ntfs
apparently is not recognized by the kernel. However, my impression
is that my having the ntfs-3g rw driver installed should enable me to
mount a NTFS partion wtihout problem or need for the -t ntfs option.

I checked my CPU instuctions/second. The services started at bootime
have not changed. The # top command does not show any problems. $ free
suggests I'm not demanding too much of my RAM. # iotop shows that my
backup process I/O demand on the kernel runs 50-100%. The kworker
flush can be 100%. My guess is that these figures are to be expected.
I run the backup at a time when no other significant processes are
running.

Do you use the USB drive on Windows, if not, just reformat it to ext4, 
ntfs-3g is a FUSE system, it isn't a fast as you would like.


Rowland


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Re: [DNG] What can even possibly go wrong?

2020-03-12 Thread Rowland penny via Dng


On 12/03/2020 10:25, Martin Steigerwald wrote:

Hi!

Just a little rant and feel free to ignore it.

systemd-homed… I hope none of it is ever implemented to elogind.

https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-homed.service.html

https://systemd.io/USER_RECORD/

(just count the lines of that one… its utterly complex stuff)

https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/homectl.html

NIH syndrome & what can even possibly go wrong?

I believe it is just a question of time until the first *grave* security
issue with that is revealed.

And the intended application of it: To use the own home directory on
different laptops? Why… at all… would I? Especially when one of those
laptops would be a device that I have otherwise no control over? I'd say
either I installed the laptop with Linux and thus trust it *or* it does
not ever see my $HOME.

But right on… extend Systemd until absurdity… maybe more people will see
the insanity in it.

Best,


Here we go again, reinventing the wheel ;-)

Windows has something similar, they call it roaming profiles and that 
has its problems.


Why does it need over 21 thousand lines of code to do what I can do with 
small bash scripts and pam-mount ?


Rowland


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Re: [DNG] List index out of range merging the repo of gnuinos with amprolla

2020-02-02 Thread Rowland penny via Dng


On 02/02/2020 18:24, Aitor wrote:


Hi,

I'm getting the following error merging packages .gnuinos.org with 
amprolla:


$ python3 amprolla_merge.py


[  ]

Loading packages: 
['/home/aitor/amprolla/spool/gnuinos/dists/beowulf/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz', 
'/home/aitor/amprolla/spool/devuan/dists/beowulf/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz', 
None, 
'/home/aitor/amprolla/spool/debian/dists/buster/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz']

Writing packages
Writing packages

Crawling ascii-security
Writing Release

Crawling ascii-updates
Writing Release

Crawling jessie

Crawling beowulf-updates
Writing Release
Writing Release

Crawling beowulf-security
Writing Release
2020/02/02 19:12:08 [ERR] list index out of range


Any hints?

Thanks in advance,

Aitor.

At a guess, without seeing the code, it looks you have 'x' items in your 
list but the python code thinks there are 'y' items.


Rowland



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Re: [DNG] VMware segmentation fault

2020-01-19 Thread Rowland penny via Dng


On 19/01/2020 21:22, Haines Brown wrote:

It been ten years since I've installed a virtual machine under Linux,
and things have changed.

I downloaded and ran VMware-Player-3.1.1-282343.x86_64.bundle to
install VMware Player with success.

Howver, I have trouble starting it. I have no desktop. Does that make
a differnce?

   $ vmplayer &
   [1] 25824
   haines@engels:~$ /usr/bin/vmplayer: line 35: 25827 Segmentation fault
   "$BINDIR"/vmware-modconfig --appname="VMware Player"
   --icon="vmware-player"

Is this a bug in the Player? Or must it be started by root?

   $ sudo vmplayer &
   [2] 25851

The second command starts a vmware process, but I gather I should
expect a VMware window to pop up.

I would like to run Windows 7 or 8 in a virtual machine. Any way to
get it cheaply?

Haines Brown

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I suspect running it this way will require a desktop, I mean it is 
hardly likely to pop up something on a desktop that isn't there ;-)


Try reading the man page.

I should also point out that Windows 7 and 8 are both EOL.

Rowland


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Re: [DNG] Fonts trouble on beowulf

2020-01-10 Thread Rowland penny via Dng


On 10/01/2020 07:13, Rick Moen wrote:

Quoting Rowland penny via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org):


Le projet Clearlooks-Phénix a pour but de créer une version GTK3 de
Clearlooks, thème par défaut de Gnome 2. Un style est également inclus
pour GTK2, Unity et les gestionnaires de fenêtres Metacity, Openbox et Xfwm4."

fsmithred

Pardon ? Sorry but I do not speak French (at least I think it is
French), but if you are referring to the mythical bird that rises
from the ashes, it is 'Phoenix' in English. Anything else is not
English.

Vous devez apprendre à parler la belle langue.  Même certains Anglais
peuvent l'apprendre.


Why ? Everyone else seems to want to learn English ;-)

Rowland


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Re: [DNG] Fonts trouble on beowulf

2020-01-08 Thread Rowland penny via Dng


On 08/01/2020 17:56, fsmithred via Dng wrote:

On 1/8/20 11:38 AM, Rowland penny via Dng wrote:

On 08/01/2020 16:25, goli...@devuan.org wrote:

On 2020-01-08 10:14, Rowland penny via Dng wrote:

On 08/01/2020 16:02, goli...@devuan.org wrote:

phenix is the correct spelling and has been since jessie.  ;)  The
French do it differently. :D

No, the Americans cannot spell correctly, it is Pheonix in English ;-)

Rowland


Even DDG isn't buying that one. When I search for Pheonix I am gently
asked whether I really want to search on that non-standard word:

Including results for phoenix.
Search only for "Pheonix"?

urbandictionary.com has a definition though.  LOL!

golinux



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This is what you get from upgrading to Beowulf and Thunderbird gets sets
to the American version of English LOL

Yes it is 'Phoenix', I just missed the transposition of the 'e' and 'o'
because I knew that they were both in there, even if the spellchecker
(American) was saying it was spelt wrong. I have now fixed the Thunderbird
spell checker, it is now using 'English (United Kingdom)'

Rowland



Copy/paste from upstream git LISEZ-MOI.md - I don't know how it will look
in email, but there's an accent aigu over the e in Phenix. No o in the
theme name.

"## À propos

Le projet Clearlooks-Phénix a pour but de créer une version GTK3 de
Clearlooks, thème par défaut de Gnome 2. Un style est également inclus
pour GTK2, Unity et les gestionnaires de fenêtres Metacity, Openbox et Xfwm4."

fsmithred


Pardon ? Sorry but I do not speak French (at least I think it is 
French), but if you are referring to the mythical bird that rises from 
the ashes, it is 'Phoenix' in English. Anything else is not English.


Rowland


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Re: [DNG] Fonts trouble on beowulf

2020-01-08 Thread Rowland penny via Dng


On 08/01/2020 16:25, goli...@devuan.org wrote:

On 2020-01-08 10:14, Rowland penny via Dng wrote:

On 08/01/2020 16:02, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
phenix is the correct spelling and has been since jessie.  ;)  The 
French do it differently. :D


No, the Americans cannot spell correctly, it is Pheonix in English ;-)

Rowland



Even DDG isn't buying that one. When I search for Pheonix I am gently 
asked whether I really want to search on that non-standard word:


Including results for phoenix.
Search only for "Pheonix"?

urbandictionary.com has a definition though.  LOL!

golinux



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This is what you get from upgrading to Beowulf and Thunderbird gets sets 
to the American version of English LOL


Yes it is 'Phoenix', I just missed the transposition of the 'e' and 'o' 
because I knew that they were both in there, even if the spellchecker 
(American) was saying it was spelt wrong. I have now fixed the 
Thunderbird spell checker, it is now using 'English (United Kingdom)'


Rowland


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Re: [DNG] Fonts trouble on beowulf

2020-01-08 Thread Rowland penny via Dng


On 08/01/2020 16:02, goli...@devuan.org wrote:
phenix is the correct spelling and has been since jessie.  ;)  The 
French do it differently. :D


No, the Americans cannot spell correctly, it is Pheonix in English ;-)

Rowland

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Re: [DNG] Way forward

2019-04-11 Thread Rowland Penny via Dng

On Thu, 11 Apr 2019 14:01:15 +0200
Wolfgang Pfeiffer  wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 01:27:08PM +0200, Edward Bartolo via Dng
> wrote:
> 
> > [ ... ] That prank was completely misplaced: as someone replied,
> >one does not joke with security. The latter can mean lost business.  
> 
>Only if people are too stupid to understand the idea behind what is
> called a backup of computer systems. Or because they're too negilent
> to create them. Again: Backup.

The problem isn't people who post on here not understanding the idea,
it was people browsing the Devuan webpage to get information who
'found' the joke and thought it was true.

I have said it before and I will say it again, the internet isn't
really the place for an April fools joke, I saw the webpage on the
31st March and the 'joke' was still up late on the 1st April. Where I
come from, this means the 'joke' rebounds on the perpetrator.

> 
> >
> >Why is it so hard to understand this?  
> 
>See above. And because it was a joke.
> 
 See above, because it was a poor joke.

I have great respect and admiration for Katolaz and the work he has
done on Devuan and hope that he reconsiders leaving Devuan, but he also
needs to understand that you do not joke with security.

The main problem that I saw was, the idiot who incessantly demanded the
perpetrator was sacked, this was way over the top, especially when the
joke was revealed (note, I was completely taken in by the 'joke',
probably because I didn't expect it to happen to something so
important), once it was revealed as a joke, I felt extremely stupid. I
did however think it should never have happened.

Rowland

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Re: [DNG] Fwd: April's fools mess

2019-04-02 Thread Rowland Penny via Dng

On Tue, 2 Apr 2019 14:28:52 +0200
Arnt Karlsen  wrote:

> On Tue, 2 Apr 2019 14:29:46 +0300, Dimitris wrote in message 
> :
> 
> > - TZ difference is bad. we should all go GMT or something unique,
> > and know when april fools starts/ends.  
> 
> ..disagreed, good pranks can use the extra bonus time. ;o)
> 

Yes, but your 1st of April may be my 31st March.

Rowland
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Re: [DNG] Fwd: April's fools mess

2019-04-01 Thread Rowland Penny via Dng

On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 20:18:01 +
Daniel Abrecht via Dng  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
> 
> It's now clear that this was a planned action and there was no danger.
> But when it happened, this wasn't obvious in any way. I assume the
> other staff members knew about it, was it discussed at the last
> meeting?
> 
> I really like April Fools, but this was no April Fool. Faking a crime,
> in this case claiming to have been hacked, is no prank or joke. It
> doesn't matter that it was April 1. either. This was absolutely
> unacceptable, never do this again!
> 
> Regards,
> Daniel Abrecht

Well said Daniel, it wasn't an April fool joke and when I first read it
it wasn't the 1st of April, it was still March 31.

I don't think the internet is a valid place to try and pull an April
fool joke, purely because of the time differences. If you do try and
pull an April fool joke, it should be something that hurts nobody, but
is possibly believable. I live in England and the most famous one was
when the BBC convinced everybody that spaghetti grew on trees. Okay
this was some time ago, but lots of people believed it and it hurt
nobody.

The stunt pulled here could have caused alarm and distress and should
never have happened. I do not know if this was a one person stunt or
not, but in my opinion, the guy who pulled it should offer a
grovelling apology and promise to never do anything as stupid again.

my one Penny's worth

Rowland

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Re: [DNG] new freedesktop "standard": /etc/machine-id

2019-03-08 Thread Rowland Penny via Dng

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 11:44:49 -0600
"Jamey Fletcher"  wrote:

> > Anno domini 2019 Fri, 8 Mar 10:45:04 -0600
> 
> >  Nate Bargmann scripsit:
> 
> >> * On 2019 08 Mar 08:00 -0600, KatolaZ wrote:
> 
> >>> and, IIRC, also /var/lib/dbus/machine-id is re-generated at boot
> >>> time. But we need to double-check.
> 
> >> Not on this Debian Buster machine.  Both /var/lib/dbus/machine-id
> >> and /etc/machine-id have a date/time consistent with the initial
> >> system installation back in October.  The machine has been
> >> rebooted a number of times since.  I've not tried moving either
> >> and seeing what happens on the next system restart.
> 
> > Hm ... same here:
> 
> > nik@t61:~$ ll /var/lib/dbus/machine-id
> > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 33 Sep 15  2015 /var/lib/dbus/machine-id
> > nik@t61:~$ ll /etc/machine-id
> > -r--r--r-- 1 root root 33 Sep 15  2015 /etc/machine-id
> > nik@t61:~$
> 
> > 2015 ... that was jessie, when this computer was set up ...
> 
> I have it here on my Gentoo install - and /var/lib/dbus/machine-id is
> a symlink to it.  It's basically the same length as a MD5SUM - why
> not just standardize on the MD5SUM of an empty 0-byte file (
> d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e ) and tell them to take a running
> leap from the ISS?

Now that's an idea, if they are tracking us, one ID will appear to be
everywhere at once, that should confuse them ;-)

Rowland


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Re: [DNG] new freedesktop "standard": /etc/machine-id

2019-03-08 Thread Rowland Penny via Dng

On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 13:47:40 +0100
Jaromil  wrote:

> 
> re all,
> 
> any thoughts about this new systemd-made thing that freedesktop
> immediately "standardized" (whatever is their procedure for that,
> likely smoking cigars among old-boys or so)
> https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/machine-id.html
> 
> its easy to replace by a script of course that's not the problem (the
> manpage suggests to use a systemd application for that, not a joke!)
> but I'm curious if anyone has some background and thoughts about this
> 
> AFAIK chromium started checking it and its absence on Devuan Beowulf
> is reported as an error, so we may have to work around this.
> 
> but first things first: do we want /etc/machine-id? and how?
> 

I would have thought the first question is 'What is it used for ?'

I don't seem to have it and everything works without it.

Rowland
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Re: [DNG] Creating directory in /var/run on bootup

2019-02-05 Thread Rowland Penny via Dng

On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 21:31:46 +0100
Alessandro Selli  wrote:

> On 05/02/19 at 11:34, k...@aspodata.se wrote:
> > Tom:
> > ...
> >> What is the recommended alternative way to create a sub-directory
> >> of /var/run on bootup for non-daemon software?
> > Don't know about "recommended", but you can 
> >
> > . prepend your cron script like (or have a wrapper):
> >
> >   if [ ! -d / ]; then mkdir -p /var/run/barman; fi
> >   
> 
> 
>   I think you meant to write:
> 
> if [ ! -d /var/run/barman ]; then mkdir -p /var/run/barman; fi
> 

even better:

[[ -d /var/run/barman ]] || mkdir -p /var/run/barman

Rowland

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Re: [DNG] excessive bounces

2019-01-09 Thread Rowland Penny via Dng

On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 21:26:45 +
Rowland Penny via Dng  wrote:

> On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 12:53:48 -0800
> Rick Moen  wrote:
> 
> > Quoting Rowland Penny via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org):
> > 
> > > Rick, please stop name dropping and please stop, just stop.
> > 
> > Seriously?  I merely asked you, while thanking you for your work on
> > Samba, to please say hullo to three of my friends and sometime
> > co-workers, as they are on the Samba Team with you.  They are in
> > fact exactly that, I like them quite a lot, and I haven't seen them
> > in far too long -- in some cases, since the dot-com collapse.
> 
> Two of the names you mentioned aren't involved much in Samba any more
> and the other lives nearer to you than me. I only mentioned I was a
> member of the Samba team to try and show I know that the problem is
> unlikely to be at my end.
>  
> > 
> > For the rest, I have been trying to assist you -- using my longtime
> > knowledge of how to investigate Mailman/MTA problems involving my
> > own server and that of a number of groups where I'm a longtime
> > listadmin. As such, I've told you who can gather the required
> > data.  If you don't believe me and would rather just pound the
> > table about how you believe the problem isn't at Samba's e-mail
> > server (which is entirely possible, and examining the logs would
> > confirm of deny), then best of luck to you, but I'll definitely not
> > repeat the mistake of trying to help you again.
> 
> Thanks, because you were not helping, I need to know when the mails
> bounced and why and you cannot help with this. Once I get this info, I
> can ssh in and read the relevant logs
> 

OK, after help from Katolaz and Jaromil (again thanks for the help),
and with help from one of my Samba team mates the problem has been
found.
It is all down to an anti-spam rule that Samba uses, the rule is for
any address that is info@, so when 'info at smallinnovations
dot nl' sent an email to the Devuan mailing list and it was then sent
to me, it bounced.

Perhaps that user would like to change to change their email address,
it wont affect me in future because lists.dyne.org has now been added
as an exception, but it could affect others.

Rowland

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Re: [DNG] excessive bounces

On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 12:53:48 -0800
Rick Moen  wrote:

> Quoting Rowland Penny via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org):
> 
> > Rick, please stop name dropping and please stop, just stop.
> 
> Seriously?  I merely asked you, while thanking you for your work on
> Samba, to please say hullo to three of my friends and sometime
> co-workers, as they are on the Samba Team with you.  They are in fact
> exactly that, I like them quite a lot, and I haven't seen them in far
> too long -- in some cases, since the dot-com collapse.

Two of the names you mentioned aren't involved much in Samba any more
and the other lives nearer to you than me. I only mentioned I was a
member of the Samba team to try and show I know that the problem is
unlikely to be at my end.
 
> 
> For the rest, I have been trying to assist you -- using my longtime
> knowledge of how to investigate Mailman/MTA problems involving my own
> server and that of a number of groups where I'm a longtime listadmin.
> As such, I've told you who can gather the required data.  If you don't
> believe me and would rather just pound the table about how you believe
> the problem isn't at Samba's e-mail server (which is entirely
> possible, and examining the logs would confirm of deny), then best of
> luck to you, but I'll definitely not repeat the mistake of trying to
> help you again.

Thanks, because you were not helping, I need to know when the mails
bounced and why and you cannot help with this. Once I get this info, I
can ssh in and read the relevant logs

Rowland
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Re: [DNG] excessive bounces

On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 11:56:29 -0800
Rick Moen  wrote:

> Correcting mistype:
> 
> > Please, let's work through the scenario.  You as rpe...@samba.org
> > subscribe to dng@lists.dyne.org.  Hypothetically for purposes of
> > discussion, for some reason the samba.org SMTP host occasionally 
> > does either SMTP error code 45x tempfail or 45x hardfail of
> > subscriber
>   ^^^   '55x'
> > copies of a Dng post addressed to you.
> 

Rick, please stop name dropping and please stop, just stop.

I have no reason to believe the problem is at the Samba's email server,
very little gets stopped by it.

All I am asking is for some one (probably the person who gets the
bounce reports, if there are such things) to tell me when the mails
were bounced and why.

If you can do this Rick, then great, otherwise, please keep quite.

This happens on a regular basis and not just to me.

Rowland

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Re: [DNG] excessive bounces

On Fri, 4 Jan 2019 04:21:28 -0800
Rick Moen  wrote:

> Quoting Rowland Penny via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org):
> > 
> > It has happened again, my membership to this list has been disabled
> > due to excessive bounces. I am fairly sure this isn't true, or I
> > would have told by one of the Samba team list moderators.
>
> 
> Sorry, just noticed the underlined bit.  {scratches head}  It's a
> mystery to me how and why Samba's _list moderators_ (by which I'm
> guessing you mean Samba's listadmins) would even have relevant data,
> let alone convey it to you.

Because, if the mails were bouncing, someone would get the bounce
reports and tell me. I get bounce reports for the samba and
samba-technical mailing lists (I am one of the moderators), so I know
what they look like.

Are you aware that I am one of the Samba team members ?

> 
> Solving these problems, in my experience, requires at minimum
> involvement by site sysadmins with access to read MTA logs one one or
> both end (mailing list manager = MLM host and your receiving SMTP
> host), and preferably also the MLM's logs.  Mailman's logs are by
> default world-readable by shell users.  Typically, MTA logs are not.
> 

Yes, I am totally aware of the above, but, as there is absolutely no
reason for the dng mails sent to me being bounced and that others have
had this happen to them, I feel the problem could be at the dng end.

Rowland
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[DNG] excessive bounces