[Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
Several weeks ago, I believe that Wayne posted a message asking what kind of different uses people were coming up with for their K3. One thing I've been playing with lately is feeding the signals from two horizontally polarized antennas at different heights on my tower into the Main and Sub receivers of my K3 in diversity mode. Since the relative phase between the two signals is preserved in the translation to audio, I can feed the audio from the two receivers into the A and B channels of my computer sound card and compare the relative phase using a dual-trace sound card oscilloscope program like Zelscope. By knowing the vertical distance between the two antennas I'm hoping to be able to calculate the arrival angle of the signal in real time. I say hoping to because so far I don't have a distant stable, unmodulated carrier to work with ... the best DX carriers have come from 40m BC stations but the modulation screws up the triggering. Once I get the methodology worked out a bit better I'll ask someone in Europe to throw a carrier on frequency for me. Playing around with this stuff got me thinking, though. What if I fed the output from two VERTICAL antennas into the K3 receivers in diversity mode, fed the audio output of both receivers into the A and B channels of the computer sound card, and used an application that introduced an adjustable delay in one audio channel before summing the two channels and doing the D/A translation back to monaural audio? Wouldn't that have the exact same effect as being able to adjust the phase of the incoming RF, and therefore the directivity of the 2 element vertical array? I'm pretty sure that today's computers could certainly handle the computation. There wouldn't be any constraints on the amount of delay so the array should be continuously steerable through an entire 360 degrees, and since the delay would be imposed digitally there wouldn't be any frequency dependency. Ideally the two feedlines would be of equal construction and equal length, but even if they weren't it would be fairly easy to characterize their relative phase delay as a function of frequency. I think mutual coupling even become a non-issue if the verticals are non-resonant. Non-resonant antennas might be the way to go anyway since such unlimited control over phase means that spacing between them would be less of an issue, and therefore the same pair of verticals could be used on more than one band as long as the spacing was wide enough. Why wouldn't this work? The PCM data format is pretty straightforward and I can't believe that the application would be that complicated to write. I must be missing something but nothing jumps out at me. If it worked, it could even be a feature in a next generation K3 (maybe even the current one) all it would take is some means to adjust the delay since everything else (two phase locked receivers, DSP processing for both RF and audio) is already there. In the case of the K3, all of this would only apply to reception, of course, although it almost seems like a transceiver could be engineered that used the desired delay determined from the receiver to set a corresponding delay for two identical tone-modulated transmitter chains driven from the same oscillator. I suspect a pair of phased transmitters would have pretty limited appeal, though ... certainly they'd be an expensive way to get just two or three db steerable gain. Fun stuff to think about, in any case. 73, Dave AB7E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - CONFIG question
Poul-Erik, I have here K3 PTT-KEY as OFF-DTR and N1MM as 38400, N,8,2, DTR-CW, RTS-Always Off. 73 Val LZ1VB What are the correct settings of the K3 and of N1MM for keying (CW) the K3 from N1MM? Sorry if this has been answered in the past - if so pse just a link. Poul-Erik, OZ4UN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] A request for CR's
Isn't Nabble a much better place to read this list? qth.net doesn't index its archives to allow full-text searches. 73, Pete N4ZR On 9/15/2010 7:43 AM, Mike wrote: The biggest problem with that is defining at what point the line ends.. :-P . Those who post from an email client have word wrap set at probably between 50 and 80 characters, and simply don't think about it, because it's unnecessary. 73, Mike NF4L On 9/14/2010 10:28 AM, Barry wrote: Hi all, I'm new to the list, having just purchased a K3. Still need to put some antennas up to try it out. Soon... Anyway, to the point of my post: Due to the large number of posts to this list, I read it on the qth.net web site in archives, rather than directly in email. Qth.net archives isn't smart enough to insert CR/LF's, which makes for a lot of horizontal scrolling in some posts. I, and I'm sure others, would appreciate you hitting your ENTER key when you come to the end of a line. On another note, given the high traffic of this list, has splitting it up (eg., K3 and accessories only) ever been considered? 73, Barry W2UP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
Spectrum Laboratory by DL4YHF http://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/spectra1.html may be able to do this already. If the K3's 15 KHz IF output were available from the main and sub receivers, Spectrum Laboratory could use those to generate the automatic phase display using the direction finding feature. Don't know how it would work with demodulated audio and 0 Hz IF. It may also be possible to use the DSP black box functionality in Spectrum Laboratory to introduce variable delay into the audio chain. Jack K8ZOA On 9/16/2010 4:37 AM, David Gilbert wrote: Several weeks ago, I believe that Wayne posted a message asking what kind of different uses people were coming up with for their K3. One thing I've been playing with lately is feeding the signals from two horizontally polarized antennas at different heights on my tower into the Main and Sub receivers of my K3 in diversity mode. Since the relative phase between the two signals is preserved in the translation to audio, I can feed the audio from the two receivers into the A and B channels of my computer sound card and compare the relative phase using a dual-trace sound card oscilloscope program like Zelscope. By knowing the vertical distance between the two antennas I'm hoping to be able to calculate the arrival angle of the signal in real time. I say hoping to because so far I don't have a distant stable, unmodulated carrier to work with ... the best DX carriers have come from 40m BC stations but the modulation screws up the triggering. Once I get the methodology worked out a bit better I'll ask someone in Europe to throw a carrier on frequency for me. Playing around with this stuff got me thinking, though. What if I fed the output from two VERTICAL antennas into the K3 receivers in diversity mode, fed the audio output of both receivers into the A and B channels of the computer sound card, and used an application that introduced an adjustable delay in one audio channel before summing the two channels and doing the D/A translation back to monaural audio? Wouldn't that have the exact same effect as being able to adjust the phase of the incoming RF, and therefore the directivity of the 2 element vertical array? I'm pretty sure that today's computers could certainly handle the computation. There wouldn't be any constraints on the amount of delay so the array should be continuously steerable through an entire 360 degrees, and since the delay would be imposed digitally there wouldn't be any frequency dependency. Ideally the two feedlines would be of equal construction and equal length, but even if they weren't it would be fairly easy to characterize their relative phase delay as a function of frequency. I think mutual coupling even become a non-issue if the verticals are non-resonant. Non-resonant antennas might be the way to go anyway since such unlimited control over phase means that spacing between them would be less of an issue, and therefore the same pair of verticals could be used on more than one band as long as the spacing was wide enough. Why wouldn't this work? The PCM data format is pretty straightforward and I can't believe that the application would be that complicated to write. I must be missing something but nothing jumps out at me. If it worked, it could even be a feature in a next generation K3 (maybe even the current one) all it would take is some means to adjust the delay since everything else (two phase locked receivers, DSP processing for both RF and audio) is already there. In the case of the K3, all of this would only apply to reception, of course, although it almost seems like a transceiver could be engineered that used the desired delay determined from the receiver to set a corresponding delay for two identical tone-modulated transmitter chains driven from the same oscillator. I suspect a pair of phased transmitters would have pretty limited appeal, though ... certainly they'd be an expensive way to get just two or three db steerable gain. Fun stuff to think about, in any case. 73, Dave AB7E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K2 trimmer cap orientation - Never mind
Never mind, I found an excellent post by Don that explains it well - rotor is the grounded end. Thanks for this great resource! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K2 S/N 7006 assembly is moving along
Receiver is alive and kicking on 40m. Awesome kit! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - CONFIG question
Val -- That is good information, but why 38400/N/8/2 ? My manual says the stop-bits should be set to '1' ? Is your keying working with N1MM the way you have it? 73, Tom - W4BQF -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Val Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:15 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - CONFIG question Poul-Erik, I have here K3 PTT-KEY as OFF-DTR and N1MM as 38400, N,8,2, DTR-CW, RTS-Always Off. 73 Val LZ1VB What are the correct settings of the K3 and of N1MM for keying (CW) the K3 from N1MM? Sorry if this has been answered in the past - if so pse just a link. Poul-Erik, OZ4UN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - CONFIG question
Tommy Alderman wrote: Val -- That is good information, but why 38400/N/8/2 ? My manual says the stop-bits should be set to '1' ? Is your keying working with N1MM the way you have it? You made me curious. Turns out that the stop bit is a minimum silent period between symbols. At least, that's what Wikiepdia says (Asynchronous serial communication article). So 2 won't hurt even if 1 is sufficient. 73 Jon LA4RT __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - CONFIG question
Poul-Erik, To get N1MM Logger to key my K3, here are my settings that work: K3: RS232 = 38400 CONFIG:PTT-KEY = rts + dtr N1MMConfig/Hardware Com 3: Elecraft K3 (in my case) CW/other checked SET:38400/N/8/1 DTR = CW RTS = Always OFF This works and follows N1MM CW speed settings up to its max, plus VOX and PTT still works. Of course if you have other software that you use, then you have to reconfigure your K3 for that software. 73, Tom - W4BQF -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA) Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 4:19 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - CONFIG question What are the correct settings of the K3 and of N1MM for keying (CW) the K3 from N1MM? Sorry if this has been answered in the past - if so pse just a link. Poul-Erik, OZ4UN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - CONFIG question
Tom, I am using SD contest logger, where 2 stop bits were set by default for K3. That's why now I set N1MM on my second computer the same way. Actually K3-N1MM connection works fine here with 1 or 2 stop bits set, no difference. 73 Val LZ1VB Val -- That is good information, but why 38400/N/8/2 ? My manual says the stop-bits should be set to '1' ? Is your keying working with N1MM the way you have it? 73, Tom - W4BQF Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - CONFIG question Poul-Erik, I have here K3 PTT-KEY as OFF-DTR and N1MM as 38400, N,8,2, DTR-CW, RTS-Always Off. 73 Val LZ1VB What are the correct settings of the K3 and of N1MM for keying (CW) the K3 from N1MM? Sorry if this has been answered in the past - if so pse just a link. Poul-Erik, OZ4UN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - CONFIG question
Ok Val. I just tend to go with what the designers specify and that is why I use their specified 1 stop-bit. 73, Tom - W4BQF -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Val Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 10:19 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - CONFIG question Tom, I am using SD contest logger, where 2 stop bits were set by default for K3. That's why now I set N1MM on my second computer the same way. Actually K3-N1MM connection works fine here with 1 or 2 stop bits set, no difference. 73 Val LZ1VB Val -- That is good information, but why 38400/N/8/2 ? My manual says the stop-bits should be set to '1' ? Is your keying working with N1MM the way you have it? 73, Tom - W4BQF Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - CONFIG question Poul-Erik, I have here K3 PTT-KEY as OFF-DTR and N1MM as 38400, N,8,2, DTR-CW, RTS-Always Off. 73 Val LZ1VB What are the correct settings of the K3 and of N1MM for keying (CW) the K3 from N1MM? Sorry if this has been answered in the past - if so pse just a link. Poul-Erik, OZ4UN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - CONFIG question
The industry standard for ascii async has been 8, none, and 1 since RS-232 baud rates rose above 1200 in the early eighty's.The other odd settings are supported for compatibility with really really ancient technology. 73 Jack KZ5A __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
What if I fed the output from two VERTICAL antennas into the K3 receivers in diversity mode, fed the audio output of both receivers into the A and B channels of the computer sound card, and used an application that introduced an adjustable delay in one audio channel before summing the two channels and doing the D/A translation back to monaural audio? Wouldn't that have the exact same effect as being able to adjust the phase of the incoming RF, and therefore the directivity of the 2 element vertical array? Yes, I think that would work fine. There are two issues that I can think of: While the main and sub receivers are phase-coherent, the actual phase difference between them is random. I believe that if you change frequency it is not guaranteed that the phase difference will be the same. So every time you change frequency you may have to re-adjust the phase delay to get the antenna to point in the right direction. The other issue is that the antennas must be no more than 1/2 wavelength apart to get a clean, single-lobe response in the directivity pattern. Al N1AL On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 01:37 -0700, David Gilbert wrote: Several weeks ago, I believe that Wayne posted a message asking what kind of different uses people were coming up with for their K3. One thing I've been playing with lately is feeding the signals from two horizontally polarized antennas at different heights on my tower into the Main and Sub receivers of my K3 in diversity mode. Since the relative phase between the two signals is preserved in the translation to audio, I can feed the audio from the two receivers into the A and B channels of my computer sound card and compare the relative phase using a dual-trace sound card oscilloscope program like Zelscope. By knowing the vertical distance between the two antennas I'm hoping to be able to calculate the arrival angle of the signal in real time. I say hoping to because so far I don't have a distant stable, unmodulated carrier to work with ... the best DX carriers have come from 40m BC stations but the modulation screws up the triggering. Once I get the methodology worked out a bit better I'll ask someone in Europe to throw a carrier on frequency for me. Playing around with this stuff got me thinking, though. What if I fed the output from two VERTICAL antennas into the K3 receivers in diversity mode, fed the audio output of both receivers into the A and B channels of the computer sound card, and used an application that introduced an adjustable delay in one audio channel before summing the two channels and doing the D/A translation back to monaural audio? Wouldn't that have the exact same effect as being able to adjust the phase of the incoming RF, and therefore the directivity of the 2 element vertical array? I'm pretty sure that today's computers could certainly handle the computation. There wouldn't be any constraints on the amount of delay so the array should be continuously steerable through an entire 360 degrees, and since the delay would be imposed digitally there wouldn't be any frequency dependency. Ideally the two feedlines would be of equal construction and equal length, but even if they weren't it would be fairly easy to characterize their relative phase delay as a function of frequency. I think mutual coupling even become a non-issue if the verticals are non-resonant. Non-resonant antennas might be the way to go anyway since such unlimited control over phase means that spacing between them would be less of an issue, and therefore the same pair of verticals could be used on more than one band as long as the spacing was wide enough. Why wouldn't this work? The PCM data format is pretty straightforward and I can't believe that the application would be that complicated to write. I must be missing something but nothing jumps out at me. If it worked, it could even be a feature in a next generation K3 (maybe even the current one) all it would take is some means to adjust the delay since everything else (two phase locked receivers, DSP processing for both RF and audio) is already there. In the case of the K3, all of this would only apply to reception, of course, although it almost seems like a transceiver could be engineered that used the desired delay determined from the receiver to set a corresponding delay for two identical tone-modulated transmitter chains driven from the same oscillator. I suspect a pair of phased transmitters would have pretty limited appeal, though ... certainly they'd be an expensive way to get just two or three db steerable gain. Fun stuff to think about, in any case. 73, Dave AB7E __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Low and High Mic gain question
Randy Below are the Macros I use to select the Front microphone (PF1) Rear microphone (FP2). I have an electrict element in a D104 case for the front and a CM500 headset in the rear. You can add eq settings to these if you want different settings for the 2 microphones. Front Mic Name -MicFP Macro - MG020;MN053;DN;DN;SWT11 Assignment - FP1 Rear Mic Name -MicRP Macro - MG006;MN053;DN;DN;UP;SWT11 Assignment - FP2 The above will leave you in the Microphone Select menu. I do that to verify it is correctly gain setting (High-Low). You can add ;MN255 (need the ; to separate) to have the end of the macro exit the menu after SWT11. MGnnn is the mic gain that you use for that microphone MN053 is Mic Sel menu UP DN commands are equivalent to turning the VFO A knob one step. SWT11 is Tap switch 11 [A/B(1)]. This is a toggle. Must exit the Mic Set menu. Error to watch out for -- Pressing FP1 or FP2 twice in a row will give you the wrong gain setting. That is why I make sure to leave the menu up to verify it is set correctly! George AI4VZ -- From: Bill Conkling n...@widomaker.com I think what is needed here are two PF keys, one to set the mic up for FrontPanel, and one for the RearPanel. -Original Message- From: Randy Moore [mailto:wrmoor...@gmail.com] The latest K3 manual implies that the Low and High mic gain settings are kept separately for each of the Front and Rear mic connections, __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] TX-test mode
Is there a way to have the K3 power-up in the TX-test mode? I read a message exchange recently which I thought was going to answer this question, but it appears that the received advice was how to have the K3 power-up with VOX turned off. The VOX Auto-OFF doesn't do the same thing as having a power-up TX-test capability. If this is not currently possible, I submit it as an idea for a future capability. 73, Steve, K4FJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] P3 cursors won't go up more then 200 MHz
hi Jim, sorry I've been not clear enough to explain my problem. It is the CENTER frequency I'm talking about not the SPAN. For example: receiving frequency is at 432.418 MHz (German beacon) and P3 has been switched on together with K3. P3 displays the same center frequency as the K3 dial shows. Now you tap 'Marker A' an switch it on. Displayed on P3's screen is 'Marker A 432418'. As soon as you dial the P3 select the P3's display shows 'Marker A 20'. You only can now dial to a frequency BELOW 20, there's no chance dialing mor than 20. If you now try qsying via P3 selct (tap to QSY) the K3 won't follow. It is fixed to K3's frequency. Sorry about being not clear enough, but my English is too poor to make the explanation clearer. Hope you understand my problem anyway ;-). Thanks for answering es 73 Wolf DK1IP Am 16.09.2010 um 14:21:01 schrieb Jim Cox: The span of the P3 is 200 khz. You state 200 mhz so not sure if span is what your questioning. Jim K4JAF - Original Message - From: Wolf E. Rose wolf.e.r...@freenet.de To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 12:47 AM Subject: [Elecraft] P3 cursors won't go up more then 200 MHz hi folks, just preparing everything for the IARU-region 1 UHF/SHF-contest (10/2-3). While testing I was not able to set the P3's cursors beyond 200 MHz. Anybody show me the right way to exceed this frequency limit please. I'm sure this must be a software bug between operator's ears. Everything else (K3/10 #1935, Kuhne TR432H transverter) working together fine since years. Only the brandnew P3 #323 won't follow ... ;-( 73 Wolf DK1IP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
David Gilbert wrote: Playing around with this stuff got me thinking, though. What if I fed the output from two VERTICAL antennas into the K3 receivers in diversity mode, fed the audio output of both receivers into the A and B channels of the computer sound card, and used an application that introduced an adjustable delay in one audio channel before summing the two channels and doing the D/A translation back to monaural audio? Wouldn't that have the exact same effect as being able to adjust the phase of the incoming RF, and therefore the directivity of the 2 element vertical array? Good idea, already implemented by MFJ, DXE and others: http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-1025 http://www.dxengineering.com/Parts.asp?ID=1227PLID=215SecID=114DeptID=12PartNo=DXE-NCC-1 This reminds me of one SDR guru who proposed using 4 SDR transceivers to emulate a 4-square. A multi-K$ solution to a $350 problem (i.e. one 4SQ controller box)...not to mention the need for 4 separate feedlines, 4 amplifiers, etc. 73, Bill P.S. I believe one problem with what you proposed above is that phase would need to be readjusted every time you touched the VFO...i.e. phase is locked (i.e. meaning the phase differential is fixed) but the actual phase offset between the two RXs changes each time the synthesizer changes. Lyle can correct me if I'm wrong. -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Diversity-Reception-and-Antenna-Directivity-tp5537531p5539351.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
There is another VERY important thing that is being missed by this discussion. A VERY large component of fading is due to multipath -- that is, the arrival of more two or more wavefronts that travel different paths, and thus have slightly different travel times. This produces a phase shift which varies with frequency, position, and the path. When the two wavefronts are precisely in phase and equal in amplitude, they add by 6dB; when they are precisely 180 degrees out of phase and equal in amplitude, they cancel. At any other value of phase difference, there is partial addition or partial cancellation. And, of course, the more nearly equal the two wavefronts, the deeper the cancellation. This is WELL recognized as multipath on VHF and UHF, but few hams realize that the same thing is happening on the lower bands. Think about it -- the phase shift is a direct function of frequency, so the very fast picket fencing at VHF/UHF of a mobile station or the flutter of a signal reflected by a moving aircraft becomes MUCH slower fading on the lower bands. A fading period on the order of a minute or two is not uncommon on 160M. When there is multipath on HF and MF circuits, the paths (most?) often differ by their vertical arrival angle. This suggests that one might expect a small time offset between horizontal antennas at different heights based on their vertical patterns and the vertical arrival angle of multiple wavefronts favored by the directivity of one antenna or the other. 73, Jim Brown K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
Thanks for the reply, Alan. That's interesting. I didn't realize that the two receivers in the K3 had a random phase difference between them even when locked. I noticed differences in phase delay when I changed frequencies during my tests with the two horizontal antennas on the tower, but I mostly attributed that to different arrival angles for the different stations being monitored, and different phase delay of the feed lines (expressed in wavelengths) at the new frequencies. However, that random phase difference between the two receivers could be adjusted out by momentarily feeding the same antenna into both receivers at each new frequency. That routing could be accomplished within the K3 if there was a quick and easy way to control whether or not the sub receiver was switched to the AUX RF antenna when diversity mode is active. If that routing option took the form of a command, the whole process could be done in software (either external or internal to the K3) each time the frequency was changed ... albeit of course with some settling delay while the phase difference was determined and adjusted out. 73, Dave AB7E On 9/16/2010 8:42 AM, Alan Bloom wrote: Yes, I think that would work fine. There are two issues that I can think of: While the main and sub receivers are phase-coherent, the actual phase difference between them is random. I believe that if you change frequency it is not guaranteed that the phase difference will be the same. So every time you change frequency you may have to re-adjust the phase delay to get the antenna to point in the right direction. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] P3 cursors won't go up more then 200 MHz
Hi Wolf, Thanks for the detailed explanation. I've found the bug and it will be fixed in the next firmware revision. It turns out that the Center Frequency adjustment also was not working properly above 200 MHz. Sorry about being not clear enough, but my English is too poor to make the explanation clearer. Hope you understand my problem anyway ;-). Danke sehr fur schreiben auf englisch. Mein deutsch ist nicht sehr gut! Alan N1AL On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 18:26 +0200, Wolf E. Rose wrote: hi Jim, sorry I've been not clear enough to explain my problem. It is the CENTER frequency I'm talking about not the SPAN. For example: receiving frequency is at 432.418 MHz (German beacon) and P3 has been switched on together with K3. P3 displays the same center frequency as the K3 dial shows. Now you tap 'Marker A' an switch it on. Displayed on P3's screen is 'Marker A 432418'. As soon as you dial the P3 select the P3's display shows 'Marker A 20'. You only can now dial to a frequency BELOW 20, there's no chance dialing mor than 20. If you now try qsying via P3 selct (tap to QSY) the K3 won't follow. It is fixed to K3's frequency. Sorry about being not clear enough, but my English is too poor to make the explanation clearer. Hope you understand my problem anyway ;-). Thanks for answering es 73 Wolf DK1IP Am 16.09.2010 um 14:21:01 schrieb Jim Cox: The span of the P3 is 200 khz. You state 200 mhz so not sure if span is what your questioning. Jim K4JAF - Original Message - From: Wolf E. Rose wolf.e.r...@freenet.de To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 12:47 AM Subject: [Elecraft] P3 cursors won't go up more then 200 MHz hi folks, just preparing everything for the IARU-region 1 UHF/SHF-contest (10/2-3). While testing I was not able to set the P3's cursors beyond 200 MHz. Anybody show me the right way to exceed this frequency limit please. I'm sure this must be a software bug between operator's ears. Everything else (K3/10 #1935, Kuhne TR432H transverter) working together fine since years. Only the brandnew P3 #323 won't follow ... ;-( 73 Wolf DK1IP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Scott King- AH6KL (sc...@elecraft.com) SK
I am very sad to post this. We are in a state of shock and loss here at Elecraft. Scott King, AH6KL, our first full time employee and oldest member of the Elecraft family, passed away suddenly Tuesday night. Scott was a personal friend and colleague of mine for the past 25 years. We literally worked from my basement in Aptos on our first K2 kits in 1999 and Scott was a key member of our support team for the past 11 years. We are going to miss his energy, great attitude and excellent support of customers. Scott came to work every day with a positive attitude and he truly looked forward to helping out people outside and inside of Elecraft. His friendly voice and smile will be missed by all of us, and I'm certain, those of you who have corresponded and talked with him. If you wish to send anything in memory of Scott, please use our PO BOX: Elecraft In memory of Scott PO BOX 69 Aptos, Ca 95001-0069 Please do not call the office, (we are already overloaded with people calling). If you wish to email something, please use our sa...@elecraft.com email address. Due to the large number of emails, we will not be able to respond to all of those received. We will gather anything we receive and forward it as appropriate to Scott's sister, who is handling his affairs. Rich Trebbien AD7FZ, richrebb...@elecraft.com , is now receiving any remaining emails that may be sent to sc...@elecraft.com. Please use Rich's direct email address for any follow up emails to ones previously sent to Scott. If you feel something you have requested from Scott may have been dropped or missed, please email Richard and he will help you out. New support requests should be sent to k3supp...@elecraft.com and supp...@elecraft.com (all non-K3 requests). I'll miss Scott. Eric WA6HHQ (and everyone at Elecraft) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
Yes, that should work, just switch the sub receiver antenna over to the main receiver to calibrate the phase. I think you'd get the best accuracy by looking for a null and then subtracting 180 degrees. By the way, I think rather than an adjustable delay between the two channels you need an adjustable phase. (If the phases of the two local oscillators in the K3 differ by X degrees, than all audio frequencies also differ by X degrees.) There are a number of ways to do that, but probably the most straightforward is to re-convert each audio signal to RF (a few kHz) using local oscillators of the same frequency but different phases, and then convert back to baseband with a single LO. That could be done either with hardware or in software. Just a SMOP. (Small matter of programming :=) Alan N1AL On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 10:08 -0700, David Gilbert wrote: Thanks for the reply, Alan. That's interesting. I didn't realize that the two receivers in the K3 had a random phase difference between them even when locked. I noticed differences in phase delay when I changed frequencies during my tests with the two horizontal antennas on the tower, but I mostly attributed that to different arrival angles for the different stations being monitored, and different phase delay of the feed lines (expressed in wavelengths) at the new frequencies. However, that random phase difference between the two receivers could be adjusted out by momentarily feeding the same antenna into both receivers at each new frequency. That routing could be accomplished within the K3 if there was a quick and easy way to control whether or not the sub receiver was switched to the AUX RF antenna when diversity mode is active. If that routing option took the form of a command, the whole process could be done in software (either external or internal to the K3) each time the frequency was changed ... albeit of course with some settling delay while the phase difference was determined and adjusted out. 73, Dave AB7E On 9/16/2010 8:42 AM, Alan Bloom wrote: Yes, I think that would work fine. There are two issues that I can think of: While the main and sub receivers are phase-coherent, the actual phase difference between them is random. I believe that if you change frequency it is not guaranteed that the phase difference will be the same. So every time you change frequency you may have to re-adjust the phase delay to get the antenna to point in the right direction. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 - CONFIG question
Poul Erik Karlshøj (PKA) wrote: What are the correct settings of the K3 and of N1MM for keying (CW) the K3 from N1MM? Sorry if this has been answered in the past - if so pse just a link. http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Supported+Radios#K3 Note that there are two alternatives to keying the K3 (Winkeyer or not) covered in the last 2 bullet points. 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-CONFIG-question-tp5534484p5539648.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
On Sep 16, 2010, at 9/169:59 AM, Jim Brown wrote: A VERY large component of fading is due to multipath -- that is, the arrival of more two or more wavefronts that travel different paths, and thus have slightly different travel times. Selective fading does not require multipath. The CCIR 520-2 profiles for Raleigh fading are all single path models. Raleigh fading causes selective fading. http://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-F.520-2-199203-W/en Whenever you hear distorted AM signals on HF, chances are it is caused by selective fading. You can see selective fading in a waterfall by watching the fading occur as moving holes that sweep across the spectrum (very visible when you tune in broadband signal such as a Coast Guard weather FAX station on HF). You can also see it take away individual tones in an Olivia signal in a waterfall. Selective fading was also one of the primary impetus to switch from on-off keying to FSK in the early days of RTTY. The Watterson model for ionospheric propagation breaks up a path into a complex signal with in-phase and quadrature components: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org:80/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?reload=truearnumber=1090438 Each component passes through a independent scattering function that have Gaussian random processes, both a Gaussian Doppler spreading term and also a Gaussian amplitude term. The modulus (i.e. amplitude, or square root of power of the I and Q components) of a bivariate Gaussian random process happens to have Rayleigh distribution. See references here (the Rician distribution is more general in that the mean of the components need not be zero): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_distribution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_distribution I.e., the amplitude of a signal whose I and Q components each have independent Gaussian statistics, has a Rayleigh distribution. As a consequence, a Rayleigh signal can cause selective fading without the need for a second path. Since the Rayleigh probability density function has finite probability of being infinitesimally small, the fade has a chance of being very deep. If you run a signal through an HF Channel Simulator (such as AE4JY's PathSim or cocoaPath) set to rayleigh fading parameters, you will see selective fading. Watterson's paper also considers both the cases of multi- paths and multi- magneto-ionic rays that are scattered by the ionosphere. Multipath signals have a time delay, multiray signals do not have a time delay between the rays. It is a fascinating paper that hams interested in HF propagation should read. Unfortunately, I have not found a free version on the web that I can reference, even though the research was done using tax payer's money at what is today NIST. But if you are an IEEE member, you can download the paper for free. 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
Hi, Bill. All true, but I thought that implementing it at audio might have some advantages ... assuming at least that someone already had the sub receiver: a. Cheaper. The DXE unit is $500 ... considerably more than that if you buy the active antennas as well. b. More versatile. Since the audio can be easily digitized using the sound card, almost anything could be done with the result via software. c. No need for separate receive and transmit antennas, or to maintain a large spacing between receive and transmit antennas. Alan has verified your point about relative phase of the two receivers changing with frequency, so that indeed would have to be accounted for. It's also true that something like a 4-Square would have a major advantage by offering gain on transmit as well as pattern on receive. In any case, I only suggested all of this for possible exploration. I don't have anything at stake here if it turns out to be a dumb idea. 73, Dave AB7E On 9/16/2010 9:49 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote: David Gilbert wrote: Playing around with this stuff got me thinking, though. What if I fed the output from two VERTICAL antennas into the K3 receivers in diversity mode, fed the audio output of both receivers into the A and B channels of the computer sound card, and used an application that introduced an adjustable delay in one audio channel before summing the two channels and doing the D/A translation back to monaural audio? Wouldn't that have the exact same effect as being able to adjust the phase of the incoming RF, and therefore the directivity of the 2 element vertical array? Good idea, already implemented by MFJ, DXE and others: http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-1025 http://www.dxengineering.com/Parts.asp?ID=1227PLID=215SecID=114DeptID=12PartNo=DXE-NCC-1 This reminds me of one SDR guru who proposed using 4 SDR transceivers to emulate a 4-square. A multi-K$ solution to a $350 problem (i.e. one 4SQ controller box)...not to mention the need for 4 separate feedlines, 4 amplifiers, etc. 73, Bill P.S. I believe one problem with what you proposed above is that phase would need to be readjusted every time you touched the VFO...i.e. phase is locked (i.e. meaning the phase differential is fixed) but the actual phase offset between the two RXs changes each time the synthesizer changes. Lyle can correct me if I'm wrong. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
If you plot the fade statistics for HF signals, however, you find many times that the result looks much more like Rician fading than Rayleigh. Jack K8ZOA On 9/16/2010 2:11 PM, Kok Chen wrote: On Sep 16, 2010, at 9/169:59 AM, Jim Brown wrote: A VERY large component of fading is due to multipath -- that is, the arrival of more two or more wavefronts that travel different paths, and thus have slightly different travel times. Selective fading does not require multipath. The CCIR 520-2 profiles for Raleigh fading are all single path models. Raleigh fading causes selective fading. http://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-F.520-2-199203-W/en Whenever you hear distorted AM signals on HF, chances are it is caused by selective fading. You can see selective fading in a waterfall by watching the fading occur as moving holes that sweep across the spectrum (very visible when you tune in broadband signal such as a Coast Guard weather FAX station on HF). You can also see it take away individual tones in an Olivia signal in a waterfall. Selective fading was also one of the primary impetus to switch from on-off keying to FSK in the early days of RTTY. The Watterson model for ionospheric propagation breaks up a path into a complex signal with in-phase and quadrature components: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org:80/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?reload=truearnumber=1090438 Each component passes through a independent scattering function that have Gaussian random processes, both a Gaussian Doppler spreading term and also a Gaussian amplitude term. The modulus (i.e. amplitude, or square root of power of the I and Q components) of a bivariate Gaussian random process happens to have Rayleigh distribution. See references here (the Rician distribution is more general in that the mean of the components need not be zero): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_distribution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_distribution I.e., the amplitude of a signal whose I and Q components each have independent Gaussian statistics, has a Rayleigh distribution. As a consequence, a Rayleigh signal can cause selective fading without the need for a second path. Since the Rayleigh probability density function has finite probability of being infinitesimally small, the fade has a chance of being very deep. If you run a signal through an HF Channel Simulator (such as AE4JY's PathSim or cocoaPath) set to rayleigh fading parameters, you will see selective fading. Watterson's paper also considers both the cases of multi- paths and multi- magneto-ionic rays that are scattered by the ionosphere. Multipath signals have a time delay, multiray signals do not have a time delay between the rays. It is a fascinating paper that hams interested in HF propagation should read. Unfortunately, I have not found a free version on the web that I can reference, even though the research was done using tax payer's money at what is today NIST. But if you are an IEEE member, you can download the paper for free. 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
Well, I was thinking mostly in terms of CW so I think delay and phase in the context of a single frequency are essentially the same. I did give a bit of thought to what it would take to make it work for SSB, though, and while I am the last person on earth you'd ever want to consult on math, it seemed to me that maybe adding the shift in the frequency domain would work. I.e., perform an FFT, add the shift, and then convert back to the time domain. Does that have the correct effect? I'm just kind of guessing here. LMOP (larger matter of programming ... but less hardware) Thanks for humoring me on the discussion! 73, Dave AB7E On 9/16/2010 10:47 AM, Alan Bloom wrote: Yes, that should work, just switch the sub receiver antenna over to the main receiver to calibrate the phase. I think you'd get the best accuracy by looking for a null and then subtracting 180 degrees. By the way, I think rather than an adjustable delay between the two channels you need an adjustable phase. (If the phases of the two local oscillators in the K3 differ by X degrees, than all audio frequencies also differ by X degrees.) There are a number of ways to do that, but probably the most straightforward is to re-convert each audio signal to RF (a few kHz) using local oscillators of the same frequency but different phases, and then convert back to baseband with a single LO. That could be done either with hardware or in software. Just a SMOP. (Small matter of programming :=) Alan N1AL On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 10:08 -0700, David Gilbert wrote: Thanks for the reply, Alan. That's interesting. I didn't realize that the two receivers in the K3 had a random phase difference between them even when locked. I noticed differences in phase delay when I changed frequencies during my tests with the two horizontal antennas on the tower, but I mostly attributed that to different arrival angles for the different stations being monitored, and different phase delay of the feed lines (expressed in wavelengths) at the new frequencies. However, that random phase difference between the two receivers could be adjusted out by momentarily feeding the same antenna into both receivers at each new frequency. That routing could be accomplished within the K3 if there was a quick and easy way to control whether or not the sub receiver was switched to the AUX RF antenna when diversity mode is active. If that routing option took the form of a command, the whole process could be done in software (either external or internal to the K3) each time the frequency was changed ... albeit of course with some settling delay while the phase difference was determined and adjusted out. 73, Dave AB7E On 9/16/2010 8:42 AM, Alan Bloom wrote: Yes, I think that would work fine. There are two issues that I can think of: While the main and sub receivers are phase-coherent, the actual phase difference between them is random. I believe that if you change frequency it is not guaranteed that the phase difference will be the same. So every time you change frequency you may have to re-adjust the phase delay to get the antenna to point in the right direction. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
Alan has verified your point about relative phase of the two receivers changing with frequency, so that indeed would have to be accounted for. A possible mod would be to feed the main synth to both receivers. This would then only be good for diversity operation, but there would be no random phase change when tuning. The DSPs do not have this relative phase change issue. The dual A/D is driven by one clock on the main DSP board. The ADC output is fed to the Aux DSP, but not clocked by the Aux DSP. Thus, the sampling offset and any delays are fixed and constant. DSP filter delays are also constant as long as you do not use the IIR filters for 100 Hz and 50 Hz bandwidth. I am not certain if the actions of AutoNotch and/or Noise Reduction would introduce any relative phase changes -- assuming activation in both receivers, of course! 73, Lyle KK7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Antennas and other.
Aloha Pete: No, I use the internal K3 tuner and then that feeds into an MFJ 986. this seems to work out just fine, even when I am loading up all the rigging on the boat. For a ground you can never have enough...I strongly suggest visiting a stained glass supply store. They sell copper ribbon in various widthsthe widest normally being around 3/4 inch. It is extremely thin, but remember rf travels only on the skin of a conductor. It is also sticky backed and it is around ten buck for a forty foot roll instead of 50 dollars for the wide, thick stuff sold at west marine. In the bilges of the boat, above the water and on the tumble home run three strips of copper ribbon down each side of the boat...solder them together at various points. then cover them over with varnish,shellac, etc. It is rather hard to hid a big ground wire running from the rig down into the bilges, however the ribbon is easily hidden. Now, remember, the ribbon is a conductor, the boat is an insulator, and the sea is a conductorVOILA...condenser. You have capacitive coupled into the ocean. Number TWOdo not cut the back stay and put in insulators...firstly, it is impossible to adequately connect the copper wire to the stainless backstay. Instead, run a sep. wire up to the top of the mast, with insulator at top, and insulator just above head heighth on the bottom. Use this as an antenna,. A cut backstay is a future failure point. No, the extra wire will not present problems because of all the rigging, heck if used, the back stay would do the same thing. If the back stay MUST be used...shine up the stainless steel, shine up the copper wire and , wrap then together first having applied. WELDERS HIGH TEMPERATURE COPPER WELDING PASTE. It is transparent to rf and makes a really good connection between the back stay and the copper wire. Then put onj a hose clamp, then two layers of electrical tape, and then COAT WITH TWO COATS OF LIQUID ELECTRICAL TAPE. You now have a bullet proof back stay connection that should last for years and years, instead of the normal way with its need of redoing every couple of years. I would look for a used Icom 718really good starter rig, at a reasonable price...and a plug and ply as far as pactor III, rtty, etc is concerned. I have used one for years...Now it is my backup as I have the K3 Susan If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly where you're headed!! Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm AFA9SM USSV DHARMA --- On Thu, 9/16/10, Pete Barth peteba...@gmail.com wrote: From: Pete Barth peteba...@gmail.com Subject: Antennas and other. To: Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm AFA9SM USSV DHARMA ussvdha...@yahoo.com Cc: ronald finkelstein sailmar...@gmail.com Date: Thursday, September 16, 2010, 8:33 AM Hello Susan, from Pete Barth W6LAW. I have seen your posts forever now on the Elecraft pages. I have had a K2 since they came out, a K3 of serial number that matches my K2 serial number, a KX-1 that is more fun than I could ever imagine. Recently an old work buddy of mine (now we are both retired) that has had a sailboat for years just passed his technician license. He is Ron Finklestein KJ6KIU. I was pleasantly surprised when he joined our ham ranks. He wants more comms. onboard, and the safety of the ham radios while on the water. He is in the marina near LAX and goes to Catalina often. He was just out watching blue whales, he saw about 150 of them. I was going to recommended a used IC706MK2 with a LDG tuner, or something like it for him to start. I was going to help him with a mast mounted 144 / 450 vertical on the mast top. And some kind of sloping vertical (with two insulators) as a backstay antenna for the lower bands. Would that become a lightning rod? I think he has one noble plate for the thru-hull water and head, and another wire running to the prop shaft. He thinks neither of these are tied to any ground on the boat. I will have to check this stuff myself. I am hoping that you might offer any hints that you have learned the hard way. Ground for the radios? Counterpoise? Best ant for the lower bands? Vertical or inverted vee? He thinks an inverted vee will get in the way of the sails. Angle might be collapsed enough to ruin teh antenna pattern too. I think you use LDG tuners? He will not be getting a K3 for a year or two. And he wants to use the boat radio in the car (Prius) and his house to start. I know this will get old for him, but that is how he will get more radios like the rest of us! Any help will be appreciated, Pete peteba...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Antennas and other.
Oh yes, Pete, I forgot...for an antenna tuner I can not over emphasize the use of the SGC 239...1. it is not dependent upon any particular rig 2. It senses rf and tunes itself, 3. it will handle 200 watts, 4, it is built by SGC...they supply tuners for the military. 5, IT IS ONLY $192.00. Now, it is not waterproof...in the manual they say to mount it in a tupperware type container up on the overhead back in the lazarette...near the bottom of your antenna. When running the feedline from the tuner to the antenna, keep it a couple of inches away from any metalagain capacitive coupling and loss of signal. If necessary use short pieces of small pvc pipe with a zip tie thru the pipe drawing the feedline to one end of the pipe and attaching the entire thing to the back-stay at the other end. If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly where you're headed!! Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm AFA9SM USSV DHARMA - __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
Hi, Lyle. Thanks for the comment. If nothing else, I'm learning from this discussion. Actually, until Alan pointed out that they were different, I thought that the two receivers WERE driven by the same main synth in diversity mode. If it were possible to have that option when in diversity mode, that would seem to greatly simplify what I was suggesting. 73, Dave AB7E On 9/16/2010 11:35 AM, Lyle Johnson wrote: Alan has verified your point about relative phase of the two receivers changing with frequency, so that indeed would have to be accounted for. A possible mod would be to feed the main synth to both receivers. This would then only be good for diversity operation, but there would be no random phase change when tuning. The DSPs do not have this relative phase change issue. The dual A/D is driven by one clock on the main DSP board. The ADC output is fed to the Aux DSP, but not clocked by the Aux DSP. Thus, the sampling offset and any delays are fixed and constant. DSP filter delays are also constant as long as you do not use the IIR filters for 100 Hz and 50 Hz bandwidth. I am not certain if the actions of AutoNotch and/or Noise Reduction would introduce any relative phase changes -- assuming activation in both receivers, of course! 73, Lyle KK7P __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 11:29 -0700, David Gilbert wrote: Well, I was thinking mostly in terms of CW so I think delay and phase in the context of a single frequency are essentially the same. I did give a bit of thought to what it would take to make it work for SSB, though, and while I am the last person on earth you'd ever want to consult on math, it seemed to me that maybe adding the shift in the frequency domain would work. I.e., perform an FFT, add the shift, and then convert back to the time domain. Does that have the correct effect? I'm just kind of guessing here. Yes, that would be another way to do it. Determine the phase of each complex FFT frequency point (arctangent of imaginary/real), add the proper phase, and then do an inverse FFT to get back to the time domain. To get a continuous signal you have to choose the proper windowing function and the amount of overlap of the sample sets in the time domain. Yet another way to do it is to design an all-pass network with a nearly constant phase shift over the frequency band of interest. That could be done with either an FIR or IIR digital filter, but the coefficients would have to be re-calculated for each desired phase shift. I'm thinking it would be easier to do the method where you heterodyne to RF using LOs of different phase and then downconvert back to baseband. That can be done all in software. Alan LMOP (larger matter of programming ... but less hardware) Thanks for humoring me on the discussion! 73, Dave AB7E On 9/16/2010 10:47 AM, Alan Bloom wrote: Yes, that should work, just switch the sub receiver antenna over to the main receiver to calibrate the phase. I think you'd get the best accuracy by looking for a null and then subtracting 180 degrees. By the way, I think rather than an adjustable delay between the two channels you need an adjustable phase. (If the phases of the two local oscillators in the K3 differ by X degrees, than all audio frequencies also differ by X degrees.) There are a number of ways to do that, but probably the most straightforward is to re-convert each audio signal to RF (a few kHz) using local oscillators of the same frequency but different phases, and then convert back to baseband with a single LO. That could be done either with hardware or in software. Just a SMOP. (Small matter of programming :=) Alan N1AL On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 10:08 -0700, David Gilbert wrote: Thanks for the reply, Alan. That's interesting. I didn't realize that the two receivers in the K3 had a random phase difference between them even when locked. I noticed differences in phase delay when I changed frequencies during my tests with the two horizontal antennas on the tower, but I mostly attributed that to different arrival angles for the different stations being monitored, and different phase delay of the feed lines (expressed in wavelengths) at the new frequencies. However, that random phase difference between the two receivers could be adjusted out by momentarily feeding the same antenna into both receivers at each new frequency. That routing could be accomplished within the K3 if there was a quick and easy way to control whether or not the sub receiver was switched to the AUX RF antenna when diversity mode is active. If that routing option took the form of a command, the whole process could be done in software (either external or internal to the K3) each time the frequency was changed ... albeit of course with some settling delay while the phase difference was determined and adjusted out. 73, Dave AB7E On 9/16/2010 8:42 AM, Alan Bloom wrote: Yes, I think that would work fine. There are two issues that I can think of: While the main and sub receivers are phase-coherent, the actual phase difference between them is random. I believe that if you change frequency it is not guaranteed that the phase difference will be the same. So every time you change frequency you may have to re-adjust the phase delay to get the antenna to point in the right direction. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Low and High Mic gain question
George, I was on the verge of developing these same macros, but I got hung up on the toggle of the H L gain setting being a toggle and not knowing what setting it is to start with. Leaving the Menu up seems to be a workable solution to this. I guess once you start using the macros for this, and don't do anything to get out of sync (like using the same macro twice like you say), this should work. Thanks! 73, Randy, KS4L On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 11:03 AM, George Jan georgeand...@windstream.netwrote: Randy Below are the Macros I use to select the Front microphone (PF1) Rear microphone (FP2). I have an electrict element in a D104 case for the front and a CM500 headset in the rear. You can add eq settings to these if you want different settings for the 2 microphones. Front Mic Name -MicFP Macro - MG020;MN053;DN;DN;SWT11 Assignment - FP1 Rear Mic Name -MicRP Macro - MG006;MN053;DN;DN;UP;SWT11 Assignment - FP2 The above will leave you in the Microphone Select menu. I do that to verify it is correctly gain setting (High-Low). You can add ;MN255 (need the ; to separate) to have the end of the macro exit the menu after SWT11. MGnnn is the mic gain that you use for that microphone MN053 is Mic Sel menu UP DN commands are equivalent to turning the VFO A knob one step. SWT11 is Tap switch 11 [A/B(1)]. This is a toggle. Must exit the Mic Set menu. Error to watch out for -- Pressing FP1 or FP2 twice in a row will give you the wrong gain setting. That is why I make sure to leave the menu up to verify it is set correctly! George AI4VZ -- From: Bill Conkling n...@widomaker.com I think what is needed here are two PF keys, one to set the mic up for FrontPanel, and one for the RearPanel. -Original Message- From: Randy Moore [mailto:wrmoor...@gmail.com] The latest K3 manual implies that the Low and High mic gain settings are kept separately for each of the Front and Rear mic connections, __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Low and High Mic gain question
Bill, Bill Conkling schrieb am 15 Sep 2010 um 21:29: I think what is needed here are two PF keys, one to set the mic up for FrontPanel, and one for the RearPanel. Each would make the necessare gain, compression, range, bias and equalization settings for the respective mics. Perhaps someone familiar with the K3 programming could create this and pass it on as a tutorial, or script or whatever for newbies like myself I have created two macros for my microphones, Heil headset rear, Icom SM-8 front. The macro for the Heil is: MN053;DN;DN;UP;SWT11;MN255;MG030; The macro for the Icom is: MN053;DN;DN;SWT11;MN255;MG023; The problem is that the High / Low setting is toggled and not saved seperately for the front and rear microphone. I see two possibilities for the developer to solve it: either keep it seperately for front / rear or create a dedicated code for low and high microphone level. I have also asked for this feature and Wayne's comment was positive. I don't know where it is on the list. 73! de Werner OE9FWV -- Das Problem mit den alten Leuten wird nicht weniger obwohl so viele sterben. Aber es wachsen immer neue nach. Email powered by Pegasus Mail free at http://www.pmail.com Homepage: http://www.qsl.net/oe9fwv/ Fone +43 5522 75013 Fax +43 5522 22505 Mobile +43 664 6340014 Fax-Email Gateway +43 820 220262990 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
Hi Dave, For some reason I got several copies of your message. I'll go ahead and post my reply to the reflector since it may be of wider interest. Yes, another way to get a constant phase shift at all frequencies is to convert to an I/Q (in-phase/quadrature) signal. One way to do that is to take the audio signal and run it through an all-pass network with a constant 90-degree phase shift at all frequencies. That is then the Q signal and the original non-shifted signal is the I. You can then obtain any desired phase shift by adding the two signals together with the proper weighting factor for each. For example, if you weight I and Q by the same factor you get 45 degrees. But that still requires a wide-band 90-degree phase shift network. It can be done with a FIR or IIR digital filter. I think there are some free filter design programs on the web that can design an all-pass network. It may need to be a big filter (i.e. lots of coefficients) to get good amplitude and phase accuracy over a 10:1 frequency range (300 Hz to 3 kHz). The other way to get the I/Q signals is with an I/Q modulator. Basically you run the baseband audio signal into two mixers whose local oscillators are 90 degrees out of phase. Now you have two RF signals 90 degrees out of phase. If you convert them back to baseband with the same oscillator you get two audio signals 90 degrees out of phase and can combine them as before. You then combine that signal with the original to simulate rotation of the directional antenna. I still think the easiest method is what I first suggested. Like the I/Q modulator except that, instead of a 90-degree phase shift, you adjust the relative phase of the two oscillators. When you convert back to baseband the two signals are already at the correct phase, ready to be combined to simulate the directional antenna. Alan __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 REMOTE CONTROL
I have replaced a TS-480 with a K3 at W7DXX Remote. The remote base software was built for a Kenwood but works in almost every way with the K3. One major exception is that with the K3 I have no remote S-meter reading. Both Kenwood and the K3 use SM; for the reading and I cannot understand why I am having the problem. Other than this problem, the K3 is awesome and user reports are great. Any thoughts? Keith, W7DXX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
That sounds very good, Alan. As I say, I'm not very knowledgeable on signal processing so all of this is very interesting to me. I guess whether any of it ultimately turns out to be useful to anyone remains to be seen. Regarding the multiple posts ... my ISP has been acting very flaky this afternoon and it kept telling me that the message upload had failed. Not sure what's going on there, but I'm sorry for the extra clutter. Thanks again es 73, Dave AB7E On 9/16/2010 1:55 PM, Alan Bloom wrote: Hi Dave, For some reason I got several copies of your message. I'll go ahead and post my reply to the reflector since it may be of wider interest. Yes, another way to get a constant phase shift at all frequencies is to convert to an I/Q (in-phase/quadrature) signal. One way to do that is to take the audio signal and run it through an all-pass network with a constant 90-degree phase shift at all frequencies. That is then the Q signal and the original non-shifted signal is the I. You can then obtain any desired phase shift by adding the two signals together with the proper weighting factor for each. For example, if you weight I and Q by the same factor you get 45 degrees. But that still requires a wide-band 90-degree phase shift network. It can be done with a FIR or IIR digital filter. I think there are some free filter design programs on the web that can design an all-pass network. It may need to be a big filter (i.e. lots of coefficients) to get good amplitude and phase accuracy over a 10:1 frequency range (300 Hz to 3 kHz). The other way to get the I/Q signals is with an I/Q modulator. Basically you run the baseband audio signal into two mixers whose local oscillators are 90 degrees out of phase. Now you have two RF signals 90 degrees out of phase. If you convert them back to baseband with the same oscillator you get two audio signals 90 degrees out of phase and can combine them as before. You then combine that signal with the original to simulate rotation of the directional antenna. I still think the easiest method is what I first suggested. Like the I/Q modulator except that, instead of a 90-degree phase shift, you adjust the relative phase of the two oscillators. When you convert back to baseband the two signals are already at the correct phase, ready to be combined to simulate the directional antenna. Alan __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
I just rummaged around in Google and found a different paper that Watterson wrote related to HF propagation and digital modes (almost 10 years after his HF channel model paper): http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/pub/ntia-rpt/79-29/79-29.pdf His conclusion definitely advocates the use of diversity reception. Discussion of HF Channel model starts on page 35 (yes, gigantic manuscript), discussion on using separate receiving antennas on page 46, use of matched filters on page 51, diversity reception on page 72. 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] OT: fixing antennas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXuzrIN_x2M __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
On Sep 16, 2010, at 1:55 PM, Alan Bloom wrote: I think there are some free filter design programs on the web that can design an all-pass network. It may need to be a big filter (i.e. lots of coefficients) to get good amplitude and phase accuracy over a 10:1 frequency range (300 Hz to 3 kHz). All-pass 90 degree networks (Hilbert Transforms) are really not that tough to implement anymore with the speed of today's computers. Just a couple of weeks ago, I did an implementation of cocoaPath's Hilbert transformer using Grand Central Dispatch to see how many cores I can use up concurrently. I ended up with a Hilbert transformer for 3 kHz passband (100 Hz to 3.1 kHz) with 16000 samples/second that ran at 300x real time on an 8 core Intel processor. Source code is free if anyone is interested. Unlike the good old analog days (you can find an analog design in Paul W1HFA's Art of Electronics book) you can get much more accurate quadratures using digital Hilbert transforms. The one is cocoaPath is good to 2.5 milli-degrees (yes, 2.5 thousandths of a degree deviation) over a span of 3 kHz. You can see the plots of the phase accuracy in Figures 3-2 and 3-3 here http://homepage.mac.com/chen/w7ay/cocoaPath/Contents/technical.html They are not a very long FIRs either -- two 511 tap filters, one to create the in-phase signal and one to create the quadrature signal. If the passband that you need is much narrower than the sampling rate, it is probably cheaper to just remodulate using sine/cosine local oscillators followed by low pass decimation filters (like what the SoftRock analog hardware does, but more accurately in the digital world :-). 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: fixing antennas
No longer available, copyright issue. --- On Thu, 9/16/10, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL doug...@gmail.com wrote: From: DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL doug...@gmail.com Subject: [Elecraft] OT: fixing antennas To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Thursday, September 16, 2010, 2:31 PM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXuzrIN_x2M __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: fixing antennas
Hi Douglas et al, I checked the link you sent doug and got this message from YouTube: This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by TheOnLineEngineer.org. Jeff Cochrane - VK4BOF Innisfail, QLD, Australia Elecraft K3# 4257 - Original Message - From: DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL To: Elecraft Reflector Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 7:31 AM Subject: [Elecraft] OT: fixing antennas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXuzrIN_x2M __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Diversity Reception and Antenna Directivity
On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:06:23 -0700, David Gilbert wrote: I thought that the two receivers WERE driven by the same main synth in diversity mode. If it were possible to have that option when in diversity mode, that would seem to greatly simplify what I was suggesting. YES! Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: fixing antennas
Aw, too bad. Worked for me half an hour ago but doesn't now. The comments included one thanking the source for getting it back on line, so perhaps there's some other issue that will be fixed soon. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- No longer available, copyright issue. --- On Thu, 9/16/10, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL doug...@gmail.com wrote: From: DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL doug...@gmail.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXuzrIN_x2M __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: fixing antennas
It was recently available at http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81100181/ Maybe it is still up there. From what I have read, this guy is nuts - he was free-climbing - with no safety equipment. If you want to know why these sites are being taken down, read the information at http://www.theonlineengineer.org/TheOLEBLOG/ 73, Don W3FPR On 9/16/2010 7:00 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Aw, too bad. Worked for me half an hour ago but doesn't now. The comments included one thanking the source for getting it back on line, so perhaps there's some other issue that will be fixed soon. Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] OT: antenna work (try this URL) - hurry they are taking them down quickly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNeUxt72m5s __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: antenna work (try this URL) - hurry they are taking them down quickly
Here's the sad story of the missing video. Our litigious society strikes again! http://www.theonlineengineer.org/TheOLEBLOG/ It showed the climber free climbing, only hooking from time to time to rest. I was shaking my head at that practice too, especially when he's climbing screwed-in bar steps on the outside of the pipe near the top. I've been up countless such steps on ship's masts (only a couple of hundred feet or less above the water, though, nothing like that astronaut on the video). Can't say how often I felt one step flex then break under my weight. On ships they paint the darn things, and painters just paint over rust, so it keeps eating away at the step making it weaker until suddenly you're dangling from your safety harness looking at steel deck 50 feet or so below... Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: fixing antennas
On 9/16/2010 4:35 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: From what I have read, this guy is nuts - he was free-climbing - with no safety equipment. If you want to know why these sites are being taken down, read the information at http://www.theonlineengineer.org/TheOLEBLOG/ Sounds like it wasn't a copyright issue, the guy [who is nuts to do this] suddenly realized that most everyone who saw it, including his clients, would realize he really is nuts, to the detriment of their liability coverage. I hope any hams who have seen this, and particularly young hams [come on guys, admit it, you're bulletproof and immortal, I was], realize that climbing a tower of any sort or even getting on the roof is an inherently dangerous activity. We all want you around and on the air, not just another young statistic. Safety equipment, providing it is properly maintained and inspected can improve the safety significantly, but there's a reason the military [and utilities] send people who will be climbing poles and towers to a safety school too. It's more than just equipment. This guy is stupid and insane, I'm glad they took it down, although things go viral so fast these days it may be hard. In college, in the late 50's/early 60's, I worked at the local TV station. CE offered me $50 to climb the 500' tower twice a year and do the mandatory FAA clearance light replacement. No elevator and I was 20 years old. I climbed in full harness, inside the tower, with a short-rope on the climbing brake on the cable down the middle of the tower. Some guy came every six months and inspected the harness and all the safety equipment. It was still dangerous, but $50 to a starving student in those days let me fix the brakes on my old truck which probably contributed a lot to my safety too. :-) I wouldn't have considered it without all the safety gear, and my CE was there and made sure I used it all. Thanks Charlie! This is s stupid, we want all our comrades alive and on the air, hopefully a few with K2s and KX1s from yet-to-be-activated summits. Please, everyone, don't ever think this guy has any brains at all. 73, Fred K6DGW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] [K2] sanity check for winding T1 and T2 on KSB2 module
I'm nearing the end of my K2 build, and am working on the KSB2 module at the moment. On page 11 of the most recent version of the manual (Rev E), it shows the secondary winding going against the grain of the primary winding. I really want to start with wire 2 on the same side of the toroid as wire 3. The picture shows wire 2 on the same side as wire 4. This makes winding more difficult and doesn't allow for me to go parallel to the primary winding. http://www.elecraft.com/manual/KSB2%20manual%20rev%20E.pdf Is this just a bad schematic, or does it matter what side of the core 1-2 are, relative to 3-4? Same goes for T2, since it uses the same schematic. Thanks! -john W4PAH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] sanity check for winding T1 and T2 on KSB2 module
John, The winding direction does not matter - just the turns ratio. So wind to so the green turns do not cross over the red winding and it will be neater and work just as well. 73, Don W3FPR On 9/16/2010 8:42 PM, John Shadle wrote: I'm nearing the end of my K2 build, and am working on the KSB2 module at the moment. On page 11 of the most recent version of the manual (Rev E), it shows the secondary winding going against the grain of the primary winding. I really want to start with wire 2 on the same side of the toroid as wire 3. The picture shows wire 2 on the same side as wire 4. This makes winding more difficult and doesn't allow for me to go parallel to the primary winding. http://www.elecraft.com/manual/KSB2%20manual%20rev%20E.pdf Is this just a bad schematic, or does it matter what side of the core 1-2 are, relative to 3-4? Same goes for T2, since it uses the same schematic. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 :: hardware AGC mod kit
I have my K3 on the bench, doing a series of updates and whatnot= ... since I just got and assembled the P3 I figured the setup is disconnected anyway, so, this is a good time. The K3 is serial # 1209. Looking at the hardware AGC mod instructions, I see that my radio does not have an R101 to replace with an LED, but already HAS an LED at that location. The silkscreened reference designator (D40?) is for a diode. R40 and R33 are already low-value ( a few ohms) resistance parts. R41 and R42 are already 33k parts. So... can I assume that this mod isn't necessary on my rig? Steve KZ1X/4 K1, K2, K3, etc. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] sanity check for winding T1 and T2 on KSB2 module
Thanks, Don. That's what I was guessing--but I wanted some expert opinions before I started tinning leads and soldering. -john W4PAH On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: John, The winding direction does not matter - just the turns ratio. So wind to so the green turns do not cross over the red winding and it will be neater and work just as well. 73, Don W3FPR On 9/16/2010 8:42 PM, John Shadle wrote: I'm nearing the end of my K2 build, and am working on the KSB2 module at the moment. On page 11 of the most recent version of the manual (Rev E), it shows the secondary winding going against the grain of the primary winding. I really want to start with wire 2 on the same side of the toroid as wire 3. The picture shows wire 2 on the same side as wire 4. This makes winding more difficult and doesn't allow for me to go parallel to the primary winding. http://www.elecraft.com/manual/KSB2%20manual%20rev%20E.pdf Is this just a bad schematic, or does it matter what side of the core 1-2 are, relative to 3-4? Same goes for T2, since it uses the same schematic. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 :: hardware AGC mod kit
Steve, That certainly sounds like the Hardware AGC mod is already installed on your K3. 73, Don W3FPR On 9/16/2010 9:14 PM, Steve Jackson wrote: I have my K3 on the bench, doing a series of updates and whatnot= ... since I just got and assembled the P3 I figured the setup is disconnected anyway, so, this is a good time. The K3 is serial # 1209. Looking at the hardware AGC mod instructions, I see that my radio does not have an R101 to replace with an LED, but already HAS an LED at that location. The silkscreened reference designator (D40?) is for a diode. R40 and R33 are already low-value ( a few ohms) resistance parts. R41 and R42 are already 33k parts. So... can I assume that this mod isn't necessary on my rig? Steve KZ1X/4 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 :: hardware AGC mod kit
inventor_sixty_one wrote: The K3 is serial # 1209. Snip So... can I assume that this mod isn't necessary on my rig? http://www.elecraft.com/K3/k3_app_notes.htm (next to last, at bottom of the page) Included on all new K3s Approximately Jan 20, 2008 Approximately s/n 350 73, Bill -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-hardware-AGC-mod-kit-tp5541072p5541126.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] OT: fixing antennas
I still get a little rush every time I climb my 50' tower. This video gives me that same feeling. Cool video though. 73, Tony W7GO __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Settings for CM500 on K3?
Bill, In other words, an analog peak reading wattmeter cannot be trusted until it has proven its worth. The same can be said of all instruments. Do not take the meter readings at face value. There can be logical explanations for differences in the readings, so do not panic - investigate. The best advice I ever heard was technician, know your tools, and know their limitations. Many measurement devices cannot be assumed to be correct unless they are proven at the parameters that you are trying to measure. Sorry to say, but all things that seem equal are NOT - do not assume, validate instead. 73, Don W3FPR On 9/14/2010 3:11 PM, Bill Conkling wrote: I just re-checked my K3, and I am set to MENU/MIC SEL=rP.l biAS, MIC Gain knob is 17, CMP is 22. I have the first 3 sliders in the TX EQUAL most of the way down (-12 to -16) and the top 2 up maybe +3. When I had an external LDG tuner with an analog meter, it would read low output, but when I switched to one of the newer models with the LED power indicator, it hits 80 to 100 watts consistently. Pretty well matches the power indicator on the K3 panel. I get 7-8 bars of Audio/ALC and 10+ on the Compressions scale. I'm getting good audio reports from contacts. ...bc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: fixing antennas
Possibly the same video as at: http://www.break.com/index/climbing-a-1786-tall-tower On Sep 16, 2010, at 3:16 PM, Mel Farrer wrote: No longer available, copyright issue. --- On Thu, 9/16/10, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL doug...@gmail.com wrote: From: DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL doug...@gmail.com Subject: [Elecraft] OT: fixing antennas To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Thursday, September 16, 2010, 2:31 PM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXuzrIN_x2M __ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: fixing antennas
That's it. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Possibly the same video as at: http://www.break.com/index/climbing-a-1786-tall-tower __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] [K3] [P3] New Beta Firmware
I noticed that there is a new Beta Version 0.35 for the P3 and in reading the release notes it indicates that to get the full benefit of the RS232 handler changes, it ideally it should be used with K3 firmware MCU 04.12. I tried to find 4.12 but can't find it on the K3 beta site. (An F5 update didn't work.) Am I doing something wrong or is it not available yet? Thanks 73 Doug VE3MV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] [P3] New Beta Firmware
Its in field testing right now... Give it time and I'm sure something will be hitting beta in the not too distant future... ~Brett (N7MG) On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Doug Joyce d_jo...@sympatico.ca wrote: I noticed that there is a new Beta Version 0.35 for the P3 and in reading the release notes it indicates that to get the full benefit of the RS232 handler changes, it ideally it should be used with K3 firmware MCU 04.12. I tried to find 4.12 but can't find it on the K3 beta site. (An F5 update didn't work.) Am I doing something wrong or is it not available yet? Thanks 73 Doug VE3MV __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: fixing antennas
It's up at http://www.break.com/index/climbing-a-1786-tall-tower, or at least it was about two minutes ago. Vertigo City. 73, Oliver W6ODJ On 16 Sep 2010, at 4:35 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: It was recently available at http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81100181/ Maybe it is still up there. From what I have read, this guy is nuts - he was free-climbing - with no safety equipment. If you want to know why these sites are being taken down, read the information at http://www.theonlineengineer.org/TheOLEBLOG/ 73, Don W3FPR On 9/16/2010 7:00 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Aw, too bad. Worked for me half an hour ago but doesn't now. The comments included one thanking the source for getting it back on line, so perhaps there's some other issue that will be fixed soon. Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] OT: fixing antennas
Gonna be hard to put this one back in the can ... (:-)) 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP elecraftcov...@rfwave.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: fixing antennas
It's gone viral. It's everywhere. :) David, W4SMT --- On Thu, 9/16/10, Ken Kopp k...@rfwave.net wrote: Gonna be hard to put this one back in the can ... (:-)) 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP elecraftcov...@rfwave.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] OT: fixing antennas
That scared the crap out of me... Thanks Ron I Love my GROUND mounted verticals. Sent from my iPad On Sep 16, 2010, at 9:05 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz wrote: That's it. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Possibly the same video as at: http://www.break.com/index/climbing-a-1786-tall-tower __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] [K3] New 700 Hz K3 Roofing Filter Webpage
This past week we added a page to our website devoted to an INRAD 700 Hz K3 roofing filter, new product offering. See http://www.upcbs.com/filter/ On September 15th we began accepting paid orders against the first batch of filters and it is already very close to selling out. Once it does, we will stop accepting payments and begin a pre-order waiting list in anticipation of a next production run. Please visit http://www.unpcbs.com/ to learn more. TNX 73, Gary KI4GGX webmaster, unpcbs.com P.S. We especially appreciate those of you who have waited for this filter to go into production since early summer. :) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] New 700 Hz K3 Roofing Filter Webpage
Duh, sorry about the typo! Our new webpage is http://www.unpcbs.com/filter/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
