Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Headphone Splitter/Amp
Keith, I am sure you mean to inform or express your objection to what you have been lead to believe about Behringer and patent or design infringements but you are passing unfounded rumors. The famous often quoted Mackie case was 90% dismissed on first reading by a judge up could see almost all the claims were groundless. The point let stand for trial(which never took place) were simply a similar color scheme (one was blue and silver and the other was gray and silver so even there they were not copies) and a similar but not that close, of a feature set in their largest mixers at the time. Mackie was barking up the wrong tree with that, ALL mixers of similar size at the time, including their own were laid out and functioned similarly to prior designs by other longer established manufacturers. To relate it to Ham radio, Collins would have, using Mackie's logic, sued Drake for use of tubes, colors and a similar layout in their first trancivers despite being quite different in design and roughly similar in features, yet not acknowledge they were both derivatives of prior practices in the field by, say, Hallicrafters. It was clear the suit was brought as a marketing ploy by a company that was fast fading and losing market share. They published it on musician forums and in ads long before it was even filed or Behringer had been informed. It worked, you believed it without knowing the facts, or bothering to find out. There are essentially no patents on circuit designs, Mackie or others have nothing uniquely their own in terms of fundamental circuit novelty, only slight variations of common practice. These are marketing patents, ones intended to lead the casual reader or shopper to believe a concept is unique to them when in fact the patent really only covers the way plastic clips are used to hold a component in, and has nothing to do with operation or circuit topology. Consumers do not read patents. They see Our revolutionary patented mixer is all new and the best, when it is clearly not new or best, or even much different from competing brands/models. I have a lot of inside information about Behringer and Mackie, DBX etc, and full sets of all the circuit diagrams for everything they ever made up until a few years ago and comparing the circuits of DBX, Mackie, etc reveals no copies, but they are all using similar parts with sub-circuits based on application notes by the IC manufactures. Behrngers main contribution was shifting assembly before the others to China. That is the big breakthrough that separated them from the other higher priced manufacturers. They offered higher performance-to-cost ratio equipment, none best of class but surely not worst either, just good value with good reliability. Their rack mount gear and small mixers were very reliable, quiet and worked as advertised, for a fraction of the selling price of the competitors. Since that time ALL of the mass market pro and musical equipment manufacturers have followed Behringer's lead and started subcontracting assembly in China, including Mackie. I've been to the Behringer headquarters in Germany many times, as well know quite well all the major brands and boutique brands of pro audio and I have been most impressed with Behringer. They have about the highest engineers/general staff ratio in the industry and have a modern tightly run operation. When I brought engineering data regarding the power supply problem and a set of proposed remedies a meeting with the design engineers, production engineers and even graphic arts was convened instantly and the issue was worked out in 30 minutes, including a conference call with Uli, the owner/chief engineer. Within hours the change was in place on the production line in China. I saw they were serious about getting it right and still keep their price point, something that is rare in the pro audio field where it can take months for a Japanese company to even acknowledge a problem. They have more engineers than their competitors in almost all cases. Uli Behinger himself designs much of the product line from his design center in Singapore where he lives. Next time someone uses that old rumor about stolen designs or cases lost ask the teller if he has ever compared the items he is referring to. He hasn't or he would be able to see in 1 second they are not the same. One rumor repeated in this thread was about copied PC boards even had copied mistakes. That is so easily proven false..it is supposed to be main channel boards of their 24x8 mixers at the time. Why did not any of the rumor mongers also report the same boards in question also had completely different layouts, the eq sections and AUX sends were in different areas of the pc boards, the only similarity was the channel faders were both located at the bottom of boardlike every mixer ever made. Mackie even sued over the use of the Panasonic 100mm fader as an infringement on an exclusive supply contract with Panasonic but Panasonic 100mm faders
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Headphone Splitter/Amp
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:34:27 -0700, Dick Dievendorff wrote: I used a Behringer HA-400 Behringer equipment is well known in the pro audio world to be of VERY poor quality, and the company is well known for extremely poor service. I would also expect it to have RFI problems. The company is also well known for copying the products of other companies (even the mistakes on circuit boards) and was convicted in a German court of doing so. They have also settled out of court with other companies. Audio professionals avoid their products. I've never needed more than a simple splitter cable to run two sets of headphones from any ham transceiver, including a K2 or K3. This year, our FD rig was a K3 set for SPKR + PHONES. The operator wore the cans, visitors could hear what was going on. Worked great! 73, Jim Brown K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Headphone Splitter/Amp
Hi All, Pardon me if this is a repeat of my previous suggestion. I can't remember where I posted it. I use a small, AA cell powered, headphone amp called a Boost-A-Roo. It's not a whole lot bigger than the 2 AA cells that power it. It has output jacks for 3 pairs of headphones. It's either on, or it's off! So, if you want volume control (other than what your rig provides), you need headphones with an inline volume control. I use this particularly with my KX-1 and ATS-3, as well as with my laptop, particularly on noisy airplanes. The cost is somewhere around $20-$30, depending on where you look. Seems to go a long time on the 2 AA cells. Dave W7AQK - Original Message - From: Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com To: Elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 8:29 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Headphone Splitter/Amp On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:34:27 -0700, Dick Dievendorff wrote: I used a Behringer HA-400 Behringer equipment is well known in the pro audio world to be of VERY poor quality, and the company is well known for extremely poor service. I would also expect it to have RFI problems. The company is also well known for copying the products of other companies (even the mistakes on circuit boards) and was convicted in a German court of doing so. They have also settled out of court with other companies. Audio professionals avoid their products. I've never needed more than a simple splitter cable to run two sets of headphones from any ham transceiver, including a K2 or K3. This year, our FD rig was a K3 set for SPKR + PHONES. The operator wore the cans, visitors could hear what was going on. Worked great! 73, Jim Brown K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Headphone Splitter/Amp
If I am inclined to use a splitter... for left ear/right ear I prefer a crossover network.. in the audio stream, high side feeding one ear.. low side feeding the other... with the cross over tuned very nearly 600 cycle. Then... when tuning across a weak but almost strong enough to be esp... I can easily focus in front of me... close my eyes... and copy... the words just come directly at me. With a switch in the circuit.. it is easy to bypass, to leave the amp in line but without the cross over, to apply a bit of amplification. The second or third set of headphones are plugged in, with a simple Y and I haven't had any rf feedback. The AT3 that needs an amp, may not be aligned just quite perfectly... I would be very happy to do that... if you were to ship it to me, and ship it back home, no charge from me. The KX1 is likely in the same position.. and the same offer applies. Thanks, --... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy _ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Headphone Splitter/Amp
Jim Brown wrote: I've never needed more than a simple splitter cable to run two sets of headphones from any ham transceiver, including a K2 or K3. This year, our FD rig was a K3 set for SPKR + PHONES. The operator wore the cans, visitors could hear what was going on. Worked great! RS sells a little audio amp/splitter [2 AA cells] that gives 3 outputs for one input. It also gives what sounds to my severely damaged ears as about 15 dB gain, just great for the KX1 which is a little too soft for me. I think I paid $8.99 or so for it, don't know what that is in Pounds or Euros. Radio Shack is in EU? 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2009 Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2009 - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Headphone Splitter/Amp
I used a Behringer HA-400 briefly for our FD effort and quickly replaced it with a standard 2 phone jacks to 1 phone plug rigid adapter. I heard a very loud garbled monitor signal when transmitting on SSB with the HA-400 headphone amplifier in use. Our station wasn't grounded (at all), which would account for this difficulty. Next year I'll be more careful about grounding the station. I think it'll work out well. The two headphones we used were of different makes and models, and of course one was much louder than the other. Dick, K6KR -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of list1 Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:04 AM To: Elecraft Subject: [Elecraft] [K3] Headphone Splitter/Amp Hi All, I am wondering if this Beringer headphone splitter amp (HA400) will work well with the K3. As long as it doesn't amplify or introduce hiss I would imagine it would work well. Any comments? I have an old Heil Proset that I mainly use, but others may use a wide range of microphones with different impedances. http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-BEH-HA400-LIST Thanks, Steve Pituch, W2MY, AAR6CX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Headphone Splitter/Amp
Dick and all, It sounds like you had some RF in that headphone splitter/amplifier. I am coming to believe that each Field Day setup should include a 1/4 wavelength of wire for each band of operation (to serve as a counterpoise wire) and enough braid or other strapping material to connect all enclosures together - connect the counterpoise wires to the ground strapping. Field Day is often run with random antennas, end fed antennas, offset fed antennas, and all those are prone to RF-in-the-shack problems - the energy from another station in a Field Day multi setup can only make the situation more complex. A few wires can help to tame things down and reduce the number of strange happenings. The counterpoise wires are a quick and easy method to bring the RF impedance at the radio location down to a good simulated RF ground level. Maybe it is a good idea to mark this down in your notebook of 'things to do next Field Day'. 73, Don W3FPR Dick Dievendorff wrote: I used a Behringer HA-400 briefly for our FD effort and quickly replaced it with a standard 2 phone jacks to 1 phone plug rigid adapter. I heard a very loud garbled monitor signal when transmitting on SSB with the HA-400 headphone amplifier in use. Our station wasn't grounded (at all), which would account for this difficulty. Next year I'll be more careful about grounding the station. I think it'll work out well. The two headphones we used were of different makes and models, and of course one was much louder than the other. Dick, K6KR -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of list1 Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:04 AM To: Elecraft Subject: [Elecraft] [K3] Headphone Splitter/Amp Hi All, I am wondering if this Beringer headphone splitter amp (HA400) will work well with the K3. As long as it doesn't amplify or introduce hiss I would imagine it would work well. Any comments? I have an old Heil Proset that I mainly use, but others may use a wide range of microphones with different impedances. http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-BEH-HA400-LIST Thanks, Steve Pituch, W2MY, AAR6CX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.13.0/2210 - Release Date: 06/30/09 06:10:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Headphone Splitter/Amp
If there's plenty of audio, using a hard-wired splitter into an in-line attenuator for each headphone will allow each listener to set the volume independently without any additional equipment. Small in-line attenuators are available from a variety of sources for a few bucks. One example is the Koss VC20 available for about $10 from sources here in the USA (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2272471tab=summary) Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dick Dievendorff Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:34 PM To: 'Elecraft' Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Headphone Splitter/Amp I used a Behringer HA-400 briefly for our FD effort and quickly replaced it with a standard 2 phone jacks to 1 phone plug rigid adapter. I heard a very loud garbled monitor signal when transmitting on SSB with the HA-400 headphone amplifier in use. Our station wasn't grounded (at all), which would account for this difficulty. Next year I'll be more careful about grounding the station. I think it'll work out well. The two headphones we used were of different makes and models, and of course one was much louder than the other. Dick, K6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] [K3] Headphone Splitter/Amp
Hi All, I am wondering if this Beringer headphone splitter amp (HA400) will work well with the K3. As long as it doesn't amplify or introduce hiss I would imagine it would work well. Any comments? I have an old Heil Proset that I mainly use, but others may use a wide range of microphones with different impedances. http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-BEH-HA400-LIST Thanks, Steve Pituch, W2MY, AAR6CX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Headphone Splitter/Amp
rant on Behringer - They really bug me. Sorry to say it, but I do. They bug me because they have a history of stealing other people's designs (Mackie, DBX) and producing them very cheaply in China. Or at least that is the way things appear and there is a history of law suits which suggests others have the same opinion. They bug me because their gear really does work well for less money. I have (had) 2 mixers, one was Behringer. My rack compressor is Behringer. So is my parametric EQ. Our church has Behringer compressors as well. We have a headphone distribution amp - yep, Behringer. I compared the Behringer EQ to a Rane EQ and the Behringer was better. I compared the Behringer 2 channel compressor to a DBX 2 channel compressor and found the Behringer was better. Dang them! I really hate to support their less-than-ethical business model, but I just can't escape the results of their approach. rant off - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -Original Message- I am wondering if this Beringer headphone splitter amp (HA400) will work well with the K3. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Headphone Splitter/Amp
There's an old saying about the cheap comes out the more expensive... If you're interested in expanding your Ham horizons into homebrewing, a headphone distribution amplifier has to be just about the most forgiving, inexpensive and simple project one might consider. Most radio/electronics handbooks have many examples and there are dozens of circuits and kits on the 'net. Just about any headphone amplifier with a relatively high impedance input (and that's 99.9% of them) can be set up in groups with the inputs paralleled to provide independently adjustable gain outputs. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Dang them! I really hate to support their less-than-ethical business model, but I just can't escape the results of their approach. rant off - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - -Original Message- I am wondering if this Beringer headphone splitter amp (HA400) will work well with the K3. __ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
