Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU - ability to handle more than two antennas

[Dan AE9K]

Wayne,

Thanks for the response.  I waited to respond until the KPA1500 manual was
published to see if there were any PF1/PF2 functions out of the box.  What
I'd like to see first is much less fancy than interacting with external
relay-based antenna switching like you mentioned.  How about initially
providing a second set of ATU segment memories to allow a /manual/ external
switch?  The amp can't know or control which antenna is selected but it
would be very handy to have a PF function key the operator could use to
toggle between ATU segment set one and two, for example, when the manual
antenna switch position is changed.

I envision it like this:

ANT1
  \
  Manual Switch
 \--:  Antenna 1  (Manually select ATU logical segment set 1 with PF1
tap)
 \--:  Antenna 2  (Manually select ATU logical segment set 2 with PF1
hold)

ANT2
   \
   Manual Switch
  \--:  Antenna 3  (Manually select ATU logical segment set 1 with PF1
tap)
  \--:  Antenna 4  (Manually select ATU logical segment set 2 with PF1
hold)

Just a manual logical segment set change in support of manual external
antenna switching.

Is that do-able?  I imagine I'm not alone in the use of manual antenna
switches and needing to accommodate more than two antennas without the ATU
experiencing a high-SWR-triggered re-tune hunt each time an external switch
selects a different antenna.

Thanks,

Dan
AE9K




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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU - ability to handle more than two antennas

[K9MA]

I considered buying the Expert 2K, but decided against it because there 
was no apparent way to tie the ATU into my antenna switch.  I'm not sure 
there is  or will be with the KPA1500, either, but it is much more 
attractive based on Elecraft's reputation.  Besides, I've since built an 
external tuner, which IS tied into my antenna switch, which matches both 
tribanders almost perfectly, so it won't even be necessary to use the 
ATU.  That was, however, a lot of work.


73,
Scott K9MA


On 1/27/2018 12:06, Ignacy wrote:

Microham Station Master listens to K3 traffic, decodes frequency and sets
switches as programmed. This is regardless whether the amp or computer are
on. Also very reliable unit. Can also be used for as rotator controller. I
cannot praise it enough.

I have Expert 2k-fa and it is  a love-hate relationships. On one hand, 2
input and 6 outputs with a reasonable antenna tuner. I switch bands and
antennas, and no extra work. On the other hand, it failed 4 times, the PS
supply creates RFI (fixed partially by a large toroid), and it is pretty
loud., requiring headsets all the time. Also, ability to control antennas
outside of front panel (or an unreliable app) is variable under Flex only
(DDUTIL).

Expert 1.3k-fa has RFI quiet PS and is very light. Its back fans are quiet
but the one insides is annoyingly loud - apparently fixed in newer models.
Also only 4 antenna outputs. But it was brilliant working with KX3 as
CE0Y/NO9E.

So I am looking for an Expert replacement -quiet both acoustically and RFI,
as automatic and with good CAT. Perhaps KPA1500-2 will be it.

Ignacy, NO9E

  




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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU - ability to handle more than two antennas

[Ignacy]

Microham Station Master listens to K3 traffic, decodes frequency and sets
switches as programmed. This is regardless whether the amp or computer are
on. Also very reliable unit. Can also be used for as rotator controller. I
cannot praise it enough. 

I have Expert 2k-fa and it is  a love-hate relationships. On one hand, 2
input and 6 outputs with a reasonable antenna tuner. I switch bands and
antennas, and no extra work. On the other hand, it failed 4 times, the PS
supply creates RFI (fixed partially by a large toroid), and it is pretty
loud., requiring headsets all the time. Also, ability to control antennas
outside of front panel (or an unreliable app) is variable under Flex only
(DDUTIL). 

Expert 1.3k-fa has RFI quiet PS and is very light. Its back fans are quiet
but the one insides is annoyingly loud - apparently fixed in newer models.
Also only 4 antenna outputs. But it was brilliant working with KX3 as
CE0Y/NO9E. 

So I am looking for an Expert replacement -quiet both acoustically and RFI,
as automatic and with good CAT. Perhaps KPA1500-2 will be it. 

Ignacy, NO9E

 



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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU - ability to handle more than two antennas

[K9MA]

I designed my station controller over 20 years ago.  Since I'm a 
hardware designer, it's all hardware. I suppose, however, something like 
your Arduino could be programmed to read the antenna switch and send a 
serial command to the amplifier, though that seems a lot of trouble.


73,
Scott K9MA

On 1/27/2018 10:06, Bill Frantz wrote:
My switch uses an Arduino to read the band lines from the K3 and 
select the last antenna(s) used on that band. It the code could easily 
be modified to tell an antenna tuner -- in the K3, an amp, or separate 
-- which antenna system is in use. Manual switching is with a button 
for each antenna.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/27/18 at 11:31 PM, k...@sdellington.us (K9MA) wrote:

Another advantage of doing all the antenna switching external to the 
amplifier is it allows using a single coax, which can easily be 
disconnected when there's lightning about.


In my case, it minimizes the number of coax runs, which keeps my wife 
happy.



My system, for example, has a toggle switch to select one of my two 
tribanders.  I can switch back and forth several times in a second 
when trying to determine which direction the signal is coming from.  
I can't possibly manipulate more than one switch that fast, nor to I 
want to have to reach over to wherever the amplifier happens to be, 
and I certainly don't want to be messing around with a mouse.  (While 
all this antenna switching is going on, the other hand is running the 
radio.)


---
B


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU - ability to handle more than two antennas

[Bill Frantz]

My switch uses an Arduino to read the band lines from the K3 and 
select the last antenna(s) used on that band. It the code could 
easily be modified to tell an antenna tuner -- in the K3, an 
amp, or separate -- which antenna system is in use. Manual 
switching is with a button for each antenna.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/27/18 at 11:31 PM, k...@sdellington.us (K9MA) wrote:

Another advantage of doing all the antenna switching external 
to the amplifier is it allows using a single coax, which can 
easily be disconnected when there's lightning about.


In my case, it minimizes the number of coax runs, which keeps my 
wife happy.



My system, for example, has a toggle switch to select one of my 
two tribanders.  I can switch back and forth several times in 
a second when trying to determine which direction the signal is 
coming from.  I can't possibly manipulate more than one switch 
that fast, nor to I want to have to reach over to wherever the 
amplifier happens to be, and I certainly don't want to be 
messing around with a mouse.  (While all this antenna 
switching is going on, the other hand is running the radio.)


---
Bill Frantz| I don't have high-speed  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | internet. I have DSL.| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU - ability to handle more than two antennas

[K9MA]

I don't think it's desirable to have the amplifier controls external 
antenna relays.  One might sometimes want to operate barefoot.  Besides, 
there are external antenna relay boxes available, as well as 
programmable controllers.  (And a few of us dinosaurs are using homebrew 
antenna controllers.)  In any case, an external controller can easily be 
made to switch antenna relays, bandpass filters, etc. Another advantage 
of doing all the antenna switching external to the amplifier is it 
allows using a single coax, which can easily be disconnected when 
there's lightning about.


If one already has the antenna switching and control set up, the ONLY 
new thing the amplifier has to do is to be able to switch the ATU among 
2 or more sets of parameters for each band, and have some way the 
external control system can tell the amplifier which set to use.  My 
preference would be some logic inputs to the amplifier, say 3 bits, 
which would allow 8 sets of parameters for each band.  (That might be 
excessive, but maybe not for some of the big muli-multi stations.  I'd 
settle for 2 bits, or even 1.) Using a serial port forces the user to 
use either a computer or a controller with a serial port, not compatible 
with simple homebrew systems.


My system, for example, has a toggle switch to select one of my two 
tribanders.  I can switch back and forth several times in a second when 
trying to determine which direction the signal is coming from.  I can't 
possibly manipulate more than one switch that fast, nor to I want to 
have to reach over to wherever the amplifier happens to be, and I 
certainly don't want to be messing around with a mouse.  (While all this 
antenna switching is going on, the other hand is running the radio.)


73,
Scott K9MA


On 1/26/2018 16:25, Matt NQ6N wrote:
I think this is a very important aspect of station design and a big 
consideration for any future amp purchase I make.


I'd like to respectfully suggest that Elecraft consider designing a 
bulletproof 16x2 antenna switch rated for 5KW and 10:1 SWR (and lots 
of isolation between ports) that integrates seamlessly with the amp 
and tuner.


There is typically a need to switch both antennas and high power 
bandpass filters, or at least the high cost of high power bandpass 
filters makes using only one for each band (via switching) very useful.


So when the amp QSYs to 40m the ideal scenario allows the switching in 
of a 40m bandpass filter after the amp, and then whichever antennas 
are usable on 40m, with the tuner knowing which antenna was chosen so 
that it can switch to the previously known settings for instant TX.


73,
Matt NQ6N



On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 1:45 PM, K9MA > wrote:


How about using an external switch to select which ATU settings
the amp uses?  Perhaps with a digital INPUT line?

Scott K9MA


On 1/26/2018 11:15, Wayne Burdick wrote:

This is definitely doable from the amp. All it takes is an
external antenna switch with a control port compatible with
RS232, Ethernet, USB, or one of the amp’s multi-purpose
digital output lines. (These have other uses, too, such as SWR
alarm output.)

To select among antennas from the amp, you could do any of the
following:

- tap the ANT switch to go between two or more antennas in
rotation

- tap ANT then use the UP/DN switches

- assign two frequently-used antennas to the front-panel PF1
and PF2 switches

In all cases, the LCD would show your selection from among N
external antenna jacks.

We can adapt the firmware to handle any such scenario.

Wayne
N6KR


On Jan 25, 2018, at 7:58 PM, K9MA > wrote:

I'm concerned about the same issue:  Multiple antennas on
one band. I have an automated antenna selection system. 
In addition to following the band data from the
transceiver, there are switches to select antennas.  I
frequently have to very quickly switch antennas, so it
must involve only a single switch.  Using a mouse with the
computer is nowhere near fast enough and I really don't
want to make it dependent on the computer, anyhway. 
However, my antennas have different impedances, so require
different ATU settings.  So, how can I tie the KPA1500 ATU
into my antenna control switch so it automatically
switches settings?  All the antenna switching is external
to the amp, so only a single amp output is used.  The
ideal would be a control line to the amp, controlled by
the same switch that selects antennas, which would select
ATU settings. I really don't want to make it dependent on
the computer.  I expect others 

Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU - ability to handle more than two antennas

[Matt NQ6N]

I think this is a very important aspect of station design and a big
consideration for any future amp purchase I make.

I'd like to respectfully suggest that Elecraft consider designing a
bulletproof 16x2 antenna switch rated for 5KW and 10:1 SWR (and lots of
isolation between ports) that integrates seamlessly with the amp and
tuner.

There is typically a need to switch both antennas and high power bandpass
filters, or at least the high cost of high power bandpass filters makes
using only one for each band (via switching) very useful.

So when the amp QSYs to 40m the ideal scenario allows the switching in of a
40m bandpass filter after the amp, and then whichever antennas are usable
on 40m, with the tuner knowing which antenna was chosen so that it can
switch to the previously known settings for instant TX.

73,
Matt NQ6N



On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 1:45 PM, K9MA  wrote:

> How about using an external switch to select which ATU settings the amp
> uses?  Perhaps with a digital INPUT line?
>
> Scott K9MA
>
>
> On 1/26/2018 11:15, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>
>> This is definitely doable from the amp. All it takes is an external
>> antenna switch with a control port compatible with RS232, Ethernet, USB, or
>> one of the amp’s multi-purpose digital output lines. (These have other
>> uses, too, such as SWR alarm output.)
>>
>> To select among antennas from the amp, you could do any of the following:
>>
>> - tap the ANT switch to go between two or more antennas in rotation
>>
>> - tap ANT then use the UP/DN switches
>>
>> - assign two frequently-used antennas to the front-panel PF1 and PF2
>> switches
>>
>> In all cases, the LCD would show your selection from among N external
>> antenna jacks.
>>
>> We can adapt the firmware to handle any such scenario.
>>
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>>
>>
>> On Jan 25, 2018, at 7:58 PM, K9MA  wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm concerned about the same issue:  Multiple antennas on one band. I
>>> have an automated antenna selection system.  In addition to following the
>>> band data from the transceiver, there are switches to select antennas.  I
>>> frequently have to very quickly switch antennas, so it must involve only a
>>> single switch.  Using a mouse with the computer is nowhere near fast enough
>>> and I really don't want to make it dependent on the computer, anyhway.
>>> However, my antennas have different impedances, so require different ATU
>>> settings.  So, how can I tie the KPA1500 ATU into my antenna control switch
>>> so it automatically switches settings?  All the antenna switching is
>>> external to the amp, so only a single amp output is used.  The ideal would
>>> be a control line to the amp, controlled by the same switch that selects
>>> antennas, which would select ATU settings.  I really don't want to make it
>>> dependent on the computer.  I expect others have the same issue.  Can the
>>> KPA1500 be made to do something like this?
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Scott K9MA
>>>
>>> --
>>> Scott  K9MA
>>>
>>> k...@sdellington.us
>>>
>>> __
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>>>
>>
>
> --
> Scott  K9MA
>
> k...@sdellington.us
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU - ability to handle more than two antennas

[K9MA]

How about using an external switch to select which ATU settings the amp 
uses?  Perhaps with a digital INPUT line?


Scott K9MA

On 1/26/2018 11:15, Wayne Burdick wrote:

This is definitely doable from the amp. All it takes is an external antenna 
switch with a control port compatible with RS232, Ethernet, USB, or one of the 
amp’s multi-purpose digital output lines. (These have other uses, too, such as 
SWR alarm output.)

To select among antennas from the amp, you could do any of the following:

- tap the ANT switch to go between two or more antennas in rotation

- tap ANT then use the UP/DN switches

- assign two frequently-used antennas to the front-panel PF1 and PF2 switches

In all cases, the LCD would show your selection from among N external antenna 
jacks.

We can adapt the firmware to handle any such scenario.

Wayne
N6KR



On Jan 25, 2018, at 7:58 PM, K9MA  wrote:

I'm concerned about the same issue:  Multiple antennas on one band. I have an 
automated antenna selection system.  In addition to following the band data 
from the transceiver, there are switches to select antennas.  I frequently have 
to very quickly switch antennas, so it must involve only a single switch.  
Using a mouse with the computer is nowhere near fast enough and I really don't 
want to make it dependent on the computer, anyhway.  However, my antennas have 
different impedances, so require different ATU settings.  So, how can I tie the 
KPA1500 ATU into my antenna control switch so it automatically switches 
settings?  All the antenna switching is external to the amp, so only a single 
amp output is used.  The ideal would be a control line to the amp, controlled 
by the same switch that selects antennas, which would select ATU settings.  I 
really don't want to make it dependent on the computer.  I expect others have 
the same issue.  Can the KPA1500 be made to do something like this?

73,
Scott K9MA

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU - ability to handle more than two antennas

[Wayne Burdick]

This is definitely doable from the amp. All it takes is an external antenna 
switch with a control port compatible with RS232, Ethernet, USB, or one of the 
amp’s multi-purpose digital output lines. (These have other uses, too, such as 
SWR alarm output.)

To select among antennas from the amp, you could do any of the following:

- tap the ANT switch to go between two or more antennas in rotation

- tap ANT then use the UP/DN switches

- assign two frequently-used antennas to the front-panel PF1 and PF2 switches

In all cases, the LCD would show your selection from among N external antenna 
jacks.

We can adapt the firmware to handle any such scenario.

Wayne
N6KR


> On Jan 25, 2018, at 7:58 PM, K9MA  wrote:
> 
> I'm concerned about the same issue:  Multiple antennas on one band. I have an 
> automated antenna selection system.  In addition to following the band data 
> from the transceiver, there are switches to select antennas.  I frequently 
> have to very quickly switch antennas, so it must involve only a single 
> switch.  Using a mouse with the computer is nowhere near fast enough and I 
> really don't want to make it dependent on the computer, anyhway.  However, my 
> antennas have different impedances, so require different ATU settings.  So, 
> how can I tie the KPA1500 ATU into my antenna control switch so it 
> automatically switches settings?  All the antenna switching is external to 
> the amp, so only a single amp output is used.  The ideal would be a control 
> line to the amp, controlled by the same switch that selects antennas, which 
> would select ATU settings.  I really don't want to make it dependent on the 
> computer.  I expect others have the same issue.  Can the KPA1500 be made to 
> do something like this?
> 
> 73,
> Scott K9MA
> 
> -- 
> Scott  K9MA
> 
> k...@sdellington.us
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU - ability to handle more than two antennas

[Ignacy]

If there are only two antennas per band, perhaps this is doable with
dual-input antenna switch (like DXE-RR2X8B) and Microham StationMaster. For
each band, MH SM selects one antenna for A and another one for B. To change
an antenna within a band,  select A  or B in the amp or via CAT.

Ignacy, NO9E



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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU - ability to handle more than two antennas

[K9MA]

I'm concerned about the same issue:  Multiple antennas on one band. I 
have an automated antenna selection system.  In addition to following 
the band data from the transceiver, there are switches to select 
antennas.  I frequently have to very quickly switch antennas, so it must 
involve only a single switch.  Using a mouse with the computer is 
nowhere near fast enough and I really don't want to make it dependent on 
the computer, anyhway.  However, my antennas have different impedances, 
so require different ATU settings.  So, how can I tie the KPA1500 ATU 
into my antenna control switch so it automatically switches settings?  
All the antenna switching is external to the amp, so only a single amp 
output is used.  The ideal would be a control line to the amp, 
controlled by the same switch that selects antennas, which would select 
ATU settings.  I really don't want to make it dependent on the 
computer.  I expect others have the same issue.  Can the KPA1500 be made 
to do something like this?


73,
Scott K9MA

--
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k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU - ability to handle more than two antennas

[Ignacy]

Multiple (4 to 6) antenna connectors is a nice feature of Expert amps. Once
you have antenna matched, QSY to up to 2-3 antennas per band is automatic.
The psychological effect is astounding, as trying to get SWR as close to 1:1
is becoming a waste of time. In my Expert 2k-fa I have 5 antennas connected. 

Having two antenna connectors is probably enough for heavy duty contesters
where sophisticated antenna selection together with SO2R  is done
externally.

However, Elecraft can provide several logical antennas software selected,
with each one matched separately. They can also come with an external
switch.  

Only 2 connectors is a reason why I am not placing the order for KPA1500. 

Ignacy, NO9E





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[Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU - ability to handle more than two antennas

[john]

I use the band data from my K3S's to select the appropriate antenna and
bandpass filters.

John KK9A


Dan AE9K dan at ae9k.com 
Thu Jan 25 14:48:50 EST 2018

While I'm awaiting the delivery of my KPA1500 I'm wondering if/how the amp's
ATU can accommodate more than two antennas.  For example, if I have an
antenna switch connected to one of the amp's antenna jacks is there a
facility on the amp that would allow me to choose one of two /logical/
antennas beyond the ANT1 / ANT2 physical selection?  Having two sets of
memories per band per physical port would accommodate 4 antennas.  

Does the KPA1500 support this or something similar to allow for more than
two antennas?  If not,  this seems pretty simple to implement as a firmware
change - assuming there's enough memory available.  If memory is a
constraint I suppose you could provide the option to halve the number of
tuning solutions stored per segment to keep the memory footprint the same.

Thanks,

Dan
AE9K

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU - ability to handle more than two antennas

[Wayne Burdick]

Dan,

The KPA1500’s firmware is written to accommodate many more antennas. It would 
be a fairly simple matter to externalize a number of them in the form of a 
remote-controlled antenna switch. 

This is a good example of how the amp can be tailored to user needs. The 
firmware could be updated to support an external switch, patch it into the 
normal antenna selection process (i.e. ATU retuning, ANT switch control), 
display its number or noun name on the LCD, etc. We even have two 
user-programmable switches (PF1 and PF2) that could be used as hot-keys to 
select specific antennas, rigs, or other configurations.

As unique station needs arise, we’ll try to address them in a timely fashion. 
To that end, feel free to recommend specific third-party antenna switches that 
we could test. We’ll work with the manufacturers to ensure smooth operation.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


> On Jan 25, 2018, at 11:48 AM, Dan AE9K  wrote:
> 
> While I'm awaiting the delivery of my KPA1500 I'm wondering if/how the amp's
> ATU can accommodate more than two antennas.  For example, if I have an
> antenna switch connected to one of the amp's antenna jacks is there a
> facility on the amp that would allow me to choose one of two /logical/
> antennas beyond the ANT1 / ANT2 physical selection?  Having two sets of
> memories per band per physical port would accommodate 4 antennas.  
> 
> Does the KPA1500 support this or something similar to allow for more than
> two antennas?  If not,  this seems pretty simple to implement as a firmware
> change - assuming there's enough memory available.  If memory is a
> constraint I suppose you could provide the option to halve the number of
> tuning solutions stored per segment to keep the memory footprint the same.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Dan
> AE9K
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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> Message delivered to n...@elecraft.com

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[Elecraft] KPA1500 ATU - ability to handle more than two antennas

[Dan AE9K]

While I'm awaiting the delivery of my KPA1500 I'm wondering if/how the amp's
ATU can accommodate more than two antennas.  For example, if I have an
antenna switch connected to one of the amp's antenna jacks is there a
facility on the amp that would allow me to choose one of two /logical/
antennas beyond the ANT1 / ANT2 physical selection?  Having two sets of
memories per band per physical port would accommodate 4 antennas.  

Does the KPA1500 support this or something similar to allow for more than
two antennas?  If not,  this seems pretty simple to implement as a firmware
change - assuming there's enough memory available.  If memory is a
constraint I suppose you could provide the option to halve the number of
tuning solutions stored per segment to keep the memory footprint the same.

Thanks,

Dan
AE9K



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