Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Fred Townsend]

Hi Wayne:

I noticed you are using the big Power Poles for the DC HV. I also note the 
cable length is listed at 5.5’ and that longer cable lengths will be supported. 
I have found that high currents cables can be a PITA. I hope that you are using 
high flex welding cables, hopefully the kind with embedded control lines so 
that Kelvin sensing can be used for longer cable lengths. 

Are the fans temperature controlled liked KPA500?

I also have not seen the drive requirements listed. Have we gotten around the 
FCC 13db rule? 

Finally, you need to proof the FAQ one more time. You have ‘cable’ in place of 
‘cabinet’ in one place.

 

73

Fred, AE6QL

 

From: elecraft...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:elecraft...@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 9:01 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Cc: elecraft...@yahoogroups.com; elecr...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, 
separate power supply

 

  

We’re pleased to announce our KPA1500 solid-state amplifier, covering 160 to 6 
meters. Max power output is 1500 Watts. Other important features include:

- Small RF deck fits on nearly any desktop (~4.5 x 13 x 11.5”, HWD); weighs 
only ~22 pounds
- Separate lightweight switching power supply weighs ~15 pounds (standard cable 
is 6 feet long)
- Styling matches our other K-Line products
- Built-in wide-range antenna tuner (ATU) with instant recall of 
per-band/per-segment settings
- Dual antenna jacks
- Rich I/O complement including Ethernet
- Interfaces to nearly any transceiver; fully integrated with K3 and K3S
- Extensive parametric monitoring ensures safe operation
- Silent PIN-diode T/R switching (no QSK relays)

Introductory price: $5995.

For photos and additional information, use the links below:

http://www.elecraft.com/KPA1500/KPA1500%20FAQ%20rev%20A1b.pdf

If you’d like to be notified when we begin taking orders, please contact 
Elecraft. Or add your name to the list at the Visalia DX convention this 
weekend. 

Required notification: "This device has not yet been authorized as required by 
FCC rules. It is not, and may not be
offered for sale, or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is obtained."

73,
Wayne, N6KR
Eric, WA6HHQ

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Wes Stewart]

With respect to your first sentence, all I can say is, of course; is there 
anyone who thinks differently?


In a signal generator, where source match is important, there will probably be 
an attenuator, or at UHF and above an isolator (terminated circulator), that 
dissipates returned power. Otherwise, almost all amplifiers are mismatched to 
returned power and simply reflect it, as does any mismatched load.




On 4/21/2017 9:47 PM, John Perlick wrote:

You have to remember that the built in tuner matches the amp to the 
transmission line.  It does nothing to improve the SWR at the antenna or to 
protect your coax.

Well, it might incrementally improve the loss in the coax because the reflected 
wave from a high SWR antenna would not be the-reflected at the amp.  It would 
be fully absorbed into the amp which is well matched.

The really good thing that the internal tuner does is make life easier for the 
amp.  You will get more power out because the protection circuits don't have to 
protect the amp.  I'd be far more protective of my amp than my coax!

John Perlick
Aria Corporation
www.ariacorp.com


On Apr 21, 2017, at 2:29 PM, "elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net" 
<elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

KPA1500
    amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Alan. G4GNX]

This reminds me of a visit to the underground BBC World Service, back in the 
1980s.


There were three RCA transmitters for MF, two in use and one on standby. 
They were capable of output around 1+1/2 Megawatts.


The final stages were in Faraday Cages, but they still invited my son to 
wander round inside one, with a fluorescent tube lit up like Darth Vader!


I asked about tuning for low VSWR and they said they didn't bother much. 
What comes back simply goes up again for another try. :-)



73,

Alan. G4GNX

-Original Message- 
From: David Woolley

Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2017 10:06 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power 
supply


..In real systems, most of the reflected power bounces 
straight back out

again when it hits the PA, to get another chance to be lost in the
feeder, or even radiated.  Of course this may cause the PA to run out of
volts, or gain, and clip or distort, or exceed the safe operating area,
and melt bond wires, or destroy the chip itself.

--
David Woolley Owner K2 06123

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Re: [Elecraft] KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[David Woolley]

Real PA designs are very far from correctly reverse terminating the 
transmission line.  The maximum power transfer theorem is a complete red 
herring in this sort of situation.  For example, on the top of page 12 
of the third edition of the Art of Electronics, immediately after 
setting the maximum transfer theorem as an exercise, they point out that 
ordinary output stages are operated far from that condition.


The only case in which you might get reverse termination, is if there 
was a (typically ferrite) isolator.  In that case, the PA wouldn't care 
about the mismatch (at least not for an ideal isolator), but the 
terminating resistor in the isolator might glow red or white if you 
shorted or opened the output.  In practice they are normally microwave 
devices, but I suppose they may be used in professional HF systems.


In real systems, most of the reflected power bounces straight back out 
again when it hits the PA, to get another chance to be lost in the 
feeder, or even radiated.  Of course this may cause the PA to run out of 
volts, or gain, and clip or distort, or exceed the safe operating area, 
and melt bond wires, or destroy the chip itself.


--
David Woolley Owner K2 06123

On 22/04/17 05:47, John Perlick wrote:


Well, it might incrementally improve the loss in the coax because the reflected 
wave from a high SWR antenna would not be the-reflected at the amp.  It would 
be fully absorbed into the amp which is well matched.



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[Elecraft] KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[John Perlick]

You have to remember that the built in tuner matches the amp to the 
transmission line.  It does nothing to improve the SWR at the antenna or to 
protect your coax.  

Well, it might incrementally improve the loss in the coax because the reflected 
wave from a high SWR antenna would not be the-reflected at the amp.  It would 
be fully absorbed into the amp which is well matched.  

The really good thing that the internal tuner does is make life easier for the 
amp.  You will get more power out because the protection circuits don't have to 
protect the amp.  I'd be far more protective of my amp than my coax!  

John Perlick
Aria Corporation
www.ariacorp.com

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 2:29 PM, "elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net" 
> <elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net> wrote:
> 
> KPA1500
>        amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply
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Re: [Elecraft] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Vic Rosenthal]

Just as a bit of anecdotal data, I am feeding a 20m dipole with 1200 watts 
through 600-ohm open line on 40 through 10 meters. The SWR on 40 meters 
approaches 100:1 (the line is short, but I am still eating about 2.2 dB loss).

Anyway, this presents a very difficult problem for most tuners -- and if you 
try it with an unbalanced tuner plus balun, even a 5kW DXE balun gets too hot 
quickly.

My solution was to cancel the reactance by switching in external capacitance or 
inductance as needed on 'difficult' bands (40 and 30 meters) and then letting a 
commercial autotuner take it from there.

Some day I'll put the matching circuits at the antenna and get the 2.2 dB back.

Vic 4X6GP

> On 21 Apr 2017, at 22:59, GRANT YOUNGMAN  wrote:
> 
> 2.  There are many ways to bring any antenna/feedline's Z0 to something that 
> a reasonably-sized affordable auto-tuner can handle at not too great a feed 
> line SWR.  Not the least of which is to feed a commercial old fashioned 
> mechanical tuner with heavy-rated components that can handle the reflected 
> power from whatever bobbie-pin you’re trying to match without just melting 
> all the plastic in the tuner if you key down for a bit too long.
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Re: [Elecraft] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Bill Johnson]

I see the internal a plus, limiting, I would expect faults when there is high 
swr.  Smart move! Safety and buyers $'s.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of GRANT 
YOUNGMAN
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 3:00 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, 
separate power supply

There seems to be some disappointment that a relatively compact wide-range 
auto-tuner at legal limit CCS (or even ICAS) is not included.  I don’t consider 
this a negative.

1.  A legal limit "LOW LOSS" CCS tuner using the build methods of most typical 
ham auto-tuners would be large and heavy with BIG toroids or air-wound 
inductors and probably vacuum caps, and expensive.  The usual supposed 
wide-range high power auto stuff is ICAS at best — with the operative word 
being “Intermittent”, unless you’re trying to boil water or vaporize circuit 
board traces.

2.  There are many ways to bring any antenna/feedline's Z0 to something that a 
reasonably-sized affordable auto-tuner can handle at not too great a feed line 
SWR.  Not the least of which is to feed a commercial old fashioned mechanical 
tuner with heavy-rated components that can handle the reflected power from 
whatever bobbie-pin you’re trying to match without just melting all the plastic 
in the tuner if you key down for a bit too long.

The Drake L4B (and most well built tube amps) have wide range Pi-networks with 
heavy components (large air-wound inductors, caps, switch contacts) that can 
handle the stress of high SWR at the amplifier’s output.  But even that won’t 
successfully match anything you throw at it (well, except for the Johnson 
Ranger, but thats not the subject).  Look at the innards of an MN2000 or Millen 
92200 to get a feel for it.

In most cases you can use a (good, not fine junk) mechanical tuner (knobs you 
have to turn, meters you have to read) to set the SWR in a band to somewhere in 
the vicinity of 1:1 at the midpoint of operating interest, and most well made 
internal tuners can manage the band edges in that case — when the load is 
non-resonant and presents a high SWR.

I suspect a real auto-tuner that can handle just about anything at 1500 watts 
at key down for a long period would take at least another KPA1500 sized box.

(Just another curmudgeonly opine)


Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342



> On Apr 21, 2017, at 2:57 PM, Wes Stewart <wes_n...@triconet.org> wrote:
> 
> Without modeling it, I would guess that it will actually narrow the matched 
> BW and it makes it a single band antenna at the same time.
> 
> My Drake L4-B would drive anything.  When I decided I needed a new challenge 
> (9BDXCC) I wanted to get on 160.  Of course the Drake didn't cover 160 and my 
> then K3, now K3S doesn't have a tuner.  So I added some wire to the ends of 
> the 80-meter inverted V.  This meant that I didn't have an 80-meter antenna 
> but the Drake would drive it anyway.  Currently, with a KPA500 and KAT500 I 
> have modest power on 160 but the KAT500 chokes on 80 at above 200-300 Watts.
> 
> Hence the new vertical for next season.
> 
> On 4/21/2017 11:10 AM, j...@kk9a.com <mailto:j...@kk9a.com> wrote:
>> It is very easy to put a hairpin coil on your top band vertical and 
>> bring the resonant SWR to 1:1. This should give you much more usable 
>> SWR bandwidth for the KPA1500. Many commercial tube amplifiers will 
>> only tolerate 2:1 SWR.
>> 
>> John KK9A
>> 
>> 
>> 





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Re: [Elecraft] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[GRANT YOUNGMAN]

There seems to be some disappointment that a relatively compact wide-range 
auto-tuner at legal limit CCS (or even ICAS) is not included.  I don’t consider 
this a negative.

1.  A legal limit "LOW LOSS" CCS tuner using the build methods of most typical 
ham auto-tuners would be large and heavy with BIG toroids or air-wound 
inductors and probably vacuum caps, and expensive.  The usual supposed 
wide-range high power auto stuff is ICAS at best — with the operative word 
being “Intermittent”, unless you’re trying to boil water or vaporize circuit 
board traces.

2.  There are many ways to bring any antenna/feedline's Z0 to something that a 
reasonably-sized affordable auto-tuner can handle at not too great a feed line 
SWR.  Not the least of which is to feed a commercial old fashioned mechanical 
tuner with heavy-rated components that can handle the reflected power from 
whatever bobbie-pin you’re trying to match without just melting all the plastic 
in the tuner if you key down for a bit too long.

The Drake L4B (and most well built tube amps) have wide range Pi-networks with 
heavy components (large air-wound inductors, caps, switch contacts) that can 
handle the stress of high SWR at the amplifier’s output.  But even that won’t 
successfully match anything you throw at it (well, except for the Johnson 
Ranger, but thats not the subject).  Look at the innards of an MN2000 or Millen 
92200 to get a feel for it.

In most cases you can use a (good, not fine junk) mechanical tuner (knobs you 
have to turn, meters you have to read) to set the SWR in a band to somewhere in 
the vicinity of 1:1 at the midpoint of operating interest, and most well made 
internal tuners can manage the band edges in that case — when the load is 
non-resonant and presents a high SWR.

I suspect a real auto-tuner that can handle just about anything at 1500 watts 
at key down for a long period would take at least another KPA1500 sized box.

(Just another curmudgeonly opine)


Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342



> On Apr 21, 2017, at 2:57 PM, Wes Stewart  wrote:
> 
> Without modeling it, I would guess that it will actually narrow the matched 
> BW and it makes it a single band antenna at the same time.
> 
> My Drake L4-B would drive anything.  When I decided I needed a new challenge 
> (9BDXCC) I wanted to get on 160.  Of course the Drake didn't cover 160 and my 
> then K3, now K3S doesn't have a tuner.  So I added some wire to the ends of 
> the 80-meter inverted V.  This meant that I didn't have an 80-meter antenna 
> but the Drake would drive it anyway.  Currently, with a KPA500 and KAT500 I 
> have modest power on 160 but the KAT500 chokes on 80 at above 200-300 Watts.
> 
> Hence the new vertical for next season.
> 
> On 4/21/2017 11:10 AM, j...@kk9a.com  wrote:
>> It is very easy to put a hairpin coil on your top band vertical and bring
>> the resonant SWR to 1:1. This should give you much more usable SWR
>> bandwidth for the KPA1500. Many commercial tube amplifiers will only
>> tolerate 2:1 SWR.
>> 
>> John KK9A
>> 
>> 
>> 





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Re: [Elecraft] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[ab2tc]

Hi Wayne/Eric and all,

Congratulations; it looks you have done what everybody wanted. Do you have
any data on IMD at the 1500W level? I have been pleading with you in the
past to take the lead in improving the miserable record of solid state PA
stages. Is it happening?

AB2TC - Knut



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Re: [Elecraft] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Wes Stewart]

Without modeling it, I would guess that it will actually narrow the matched BW 
and it makes it a single band antenna at the same time.


My Drake L4-B would drive anything.  When I decided I needed a new challenge 
(9BDXCC) I wanted to get on 160.  Of course the Drake didn't cover 160 and my 
then K3, now K3S doesn't have a tuner.  So I added some wire to the ends of the 
80-meter inverted V.  This meant that I didn't have an 80-meter antenna but the 
Drake would drive it anyway.  Currently, with a KPA500 and KAT500 I have modest 
power on 160 but the KAT500 chokes on 80 at above 200-300 Watts.


Hence the new vertical for next season.

On 4/21/2017 11:10 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

It is very easy to put a hairpin coil on your top band vertical and bring
the resonant SWR to 1:1. This should give you much more usable SWR
bandwidth for the KPA1500. Many commercial tube amplifiers will only
tolerate 2:1 SWR.

John KK9A


>From Wes Stewart n7ws
Fri Apr 21 13:11:12 EDT 2017

I'm not necessarily defining a personal situation.  But almost any 80 or 160
antenna will suffice as an example.

I am currently constructing a vertical for those bands.  The model shows
2:1 on
160 at resonance and >3:1 just 60 KHz away and this is with considerable
ground
loss.  Less loss would equal lower BW.  With quarter wave resonance on 80
at 3.6
MHz it exceeds 3:1 at 3.8 MHz and is nearly 7:1 at 4.0.

Transmission line loss is a non-issue with 7/8" Heliax.

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Re: [Elecraft] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Jessie Oberreuter]

 I have to keep physically restraining myself from placing an order 
just for the pleasure of owning one!  It's *just* *so* *Elecraft*! :).


- kb7psg

On Fri, 21 Apr 2017, Clay Autery wrote:


Wayne, Eric, and everyone else who had/has a hand in making this happen:

Well done!  Simply superb effort to overcome multiple and significant
obstacles on many fronts.

Please, do place me on the list of folks keenly interested in knowing
when one might place an order/pre-order.  :-)

Out-friggin'-standing!!

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

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Re: [Elecraft] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Wayne Burdick]

Hi Clay,

You're on the list. Thanks!

Wayne
N6KR



http://www.elecraft.com

> On Apr 21, 2017, at 10:44 AM, Clay Autery  wrote:
> 
> Wayne, Eric, and everyone else who had/has a hand in making this happen:
> 
> Well done!  Simply superb effort to overcome multiple and significant
> obstacles on many fronts.
> 
> Please, do place me on the list of folks keenly interested in knowing
> when one might place an order/pre-order.  :-)
> 
> Out-friggin'-standing!!
> 
> 73,
> 
> __
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> 
>> On 4/20/2017 11:01 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> We’re pleased to announce our KPA1500 solid-state amplifier, covering 160 to 
>> 6 meters. Max power output is 1500 Watts. Other important features include:
>> 
>>  - Small RF deck fits on nearly any desktop (~4.5 x 13 x 11.5”, HWD); weighs 
>> only ~22 pounds
>>  - Separate lightweight switching power supply weighs ~15 pounds (standard 
>> cable is 6 feet long)
>>  - Styling matches our other K-Line products
>>  - Built-in wide-range antenna tuner (ATU) with instant recall of 
>> per-band/per-segment settings
>>  - Dual antenna jacks
>>  - Rich I/O complement including Ethernet
>>  - Interfaces to nearly any transceiver; fully integrated with K3 and K3S
>>  - Extensive parametric monitoring ensures safe operation
>>  - Silent PIN-diode T/R switching (no QSK relays)
>> 
>> Introductory price: $5995.
>> 
>> For photos and additional information, use the links below:
>> 
>>   http://www.elecraft.com/KPA1500/KPA1500%20FAQ%20rev%20A1b.pdf
>> 
>> 
>> If you’d like to be notified when we begin taking orders, please contact 
>> Elecraft. Or add your name to the list at the Visalia DX convention this 
>> weekend. 
>> 
>> Required notification: "This device has not yet been authorized as required 
>> by FCC rules. It is not, and may not be
>> offered for sale, or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is 
>> obtained."
>> 
>> 73,
>> Wayne, N6KR
>> Eric, WA6HHQ
> 
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[Elecraft] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[j...@kk9a.com]

It is very easy to put a hairpin coil on your top band vertical and bring
the resonant SWR to 1:1. This should give you much more usable SWR
bandwidth for the KPA1500. Many commercial tube amplifiers will only
tolerate 2:1 SWR.

John KK9A


>From Wes Stewart n7ws
Fri Apr 21 13:11:12 EDT 2017

I'm not necessarily defining a personal situation.  But almost any 80 or 160
antenna will suffice as an example.

I am currently constructing a vertical for those bands.  The model shows
2:1 on
160 at resonance and >3:1 just 60 KHz away and this is with considerable
ground
loss.  Less loss would equal lower BW.  With quarter wave resonance on 80
at 3.6
MHz it exceeds 3:1 at 3.8 MHz and is nearly 7:1 at 4.0.

Transmission line loss is a non-issue with 7/8" Heliax.

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Re: [Elecraft] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Clay Autery]

Wayne, Eric, and everyone else who had/has a hand in making this happen:

Well done!  Simply superb effort to overcome multiple and significant
obstacles on many fronts.

Please, do place me on the list of folks keenly interested in knowing
when one might place an order/pre-order.  :-)

Out-friggin'-standing!!

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 4/20/2017 11:01 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> We’re pleased to announce our KPA1500 solid-state amplifier, covering 160 to 
> 6 meters. Max power output is 1500 Watts. Other important features include:
>
>   - Small RF deck fits on nearly any desktop (~4.5 x 13 x 11.5”, HWD); weighs 
> only ~22 pounds
>   - Separate lightweight switching power supply weighs ~15 pounds (standard 
> cable is 6 feet long)
>   - Styling matches our other K-Line products
>   - Built-in wide-range antenna tuner (ATU) with instant recall of 
> per-band/per-segment settings
>   - Dual antenna jacks
>   - Rich I/O complement including Ethernet
>   - Interfaces to nearly any transceiver; fully integrated with K3 and K3S
>   - Extensive parametric monitoring ensures safe operation
>   - Silent PIN-diode T/R switching (no QSK relays)
>
> Introductory price: $5995.
>
> For photos and additional information, use the links below:
>
>http://www.elecraft.com/KPA1500/KPA1500%20FAQ%20rev%20A1b.pdf
>
>
> If you’d like to be notified when we begin taking orders, please contact 
> Elecraft. Or add your name to the list at the Visalia DX convention this 
> weekend. 
>
> Required notification: "This device has not yet been authorized as required 
> by FCC rules. It is not, and may not be
> offered for sale, or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is 
> obtained."
>
> 73,
> Wayne, N6KR
> Eric, WA6HHQ

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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Clay Autery]

Excellent point  I look forward to deploying more/better copper!  :-)

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 4/21/2017 11:32 AM, Alan Bloom wrote:
> With 1500W of power, if the SWR is greater than 3:1 you may be
> exceeding the ratings of the feedline.  For example, Belden 9914 is
> rated at a maximum of 300 VRMS, which is 1800W with a 50-ohm feedline
> or only 600W with a 3:1 SWR.  At 30 MHz, RG-8/213 style coax is
> typically rated at 1500W with a 1:1 SWR.
>
> It's true that you can do more than that with low-duty-factor modes
> like CW and SSB, but if you are running much more than 3:1 SWR you may
> be in danger of damaging the feedline.
>
> Alan N1AL
>
>

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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Bill Breeden]

An excellent point missed by many of the desktop tuner and high feedline 
SWR advocates who insist on using coax fed antennas. Typically, they 
blame their failures on cheap coax.


73,

Bill - NA5DX


On 4/21/2017 11:32 AM, Alan Bloom wrote:
With 1500W of power, if the SWR is greater than 3:1 you may be 
exceeding the ratings of the feedline.  For example, Belden 9914 is 
rated at a maximum of 300 VRMS, which is 1800W with a 50-ohm feedline 
or only 600W with a 3:1 SWR.  At 30 MHz, RG-8/213 style coax is 
typically rated at 1500W with a 1:1 SWR.


It's true that you can do more than that with low-duty-factor modes 
like CW and SSB, but if you are running much more than 3:1 SWR you may 
be in danger of damaging the feedline.


Alan N1AL


On 04/21/2017 06:28 AM, Jim Miller wrote:

Wes

Can you describe your affected antennas?

73

Jim ab3cv

On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:56 AM, Wes Stewart 
wrote:

A couple of points.

If you believe that an SWR of >3 necessarily degrades the efficiency
of an antenna, you are simply wrong.

If the "tuner" components have to be derated to this extent then
perhaps it should be called a line flattener rather than a tuner
because a lot of guys are still going to need a tuner.




On 4/21/2017 4:34 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote: The KPA1500 tuner range
is fine. If your antennas have >3:1 SWR you need to do some work
outside. It will help your signal much more than the amp. Even when
I operated the RTTY Roundup in January after an ice storm my
antennas were within this amplifiers SWR range.

John KK9A


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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Clay Autery]

Ease up for a minute  Look at it my way.  I KNOW I am gonna need an
external tuner with massive capability to do the same thing I am doing
now  only one tuner on the commercial market will tune my 80m loop
at 1500W the way the K3s can.

I didn't WANT an onboard tuner...  I consider the price point fair for
an amp only.  It would cost me roughly that much to build one from a
true kit, boards, or schematic...  (Looking forward to it).

Tuning full range, full-power, from 160-6m, from more than 3:1 gets
expensive, big, and heavy in a hurry

MOST folks don't need/want a tuner like that, especially if it takes
more money out their pocket.

Consider the on-board tuner a bonus extra...  and if so inclined send up
a prayer the FCC approval is rapidly forthcoming.  :-)

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 4/21/2017 7:56 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:
> A couple of points.
>
> If you believe that an SWR of >3 necessarily degrades the efficiency
> of an antenna, you are simply wrong.
>
> If the "tuner" components have to be derated to this extent then
> perhaps it should be called a line flattener rather than a tuner
> because a lot of guys are still going to need a tuner.
>
>
>
> On 4/21/2017 4:34 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:
>> The KPA1500 tuner range is fine. If your antennas have >3:1 SWR you need
>> to do some work outside. It will help your signal much more than the
>> amp.
>> Even when I operated the RTTY Roundup in January after an ice storm my
>> antennas were within this amplifiers SWR range.
>>
>> John KK9A
>>
>> from: Wes Stewartn7ws
>> Fri Apr 21 01:18:59 EDT 2017
>> ]
>> Not enough full power tuner range.
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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Wes Stewart]

I'm not necessarily defining a personal situation.  But almost any 80 or 160 
antenna will suffice as an example.


I am currently constructing a vertical for those bands.  The model shows 2:1 on 
160 at resonance and >3:1 just 60 KHz away and this is with considerable ground 
loss.  Less loss would equal lower BW.  With quarter wave resonance on 80 at 3.6 
MHz it exceeds 3:1 at 3.8 MHz and is nearly 7:1 at 4.0.


Transmission line loss is a non-issue with 7/8" Heliax.

On 4/21/2017 6:28 AM, Jim Miller wrote:

Wes

Can you describe your affected antennas?

73

Jim ab3cv

On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:56 AM, Wes Stewart  wrote:

A couple of points.

If you believe that an SWR of >3 necessarily degrades the efficiency of an 
antenna, you are simply wrong.

If the "tuner" components have to be derated to this extent then perhaps it 
should be called a line flattener rather than a tuner because a lot of guys are still 
going to need a tuner.




On 4/21/2017 4:34 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:
The KPA1500 tuner range is fine. If your antennas have >3:1 SWR you need
to do some work outside. It will help your signal much more than the amp.
Even when I operated the RTTY Roundup in January after an ice storm my
antennas were within this amplifiers SWR range.

John KK9A

from: Wes Stewartn7ws
Fri Apr 21 01:18:59 EDT 2017
]
Not enough full power tuner range.



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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Alan Bloom]

With 1500W of power, if the SWR is greater than 3:1 you may be exceeding 
the ratings of the feedline.  For example, Belden 9914 is rated at a 
maximum of 300 VRMS, which is 1800W with a 50-ohm feedline or only 600W 
with a 3:1 SWR.  At 30 MHz, RG-8/213 style coax is typically rated at 
1500W with a 1:1 SWR.


It's true that you can do more than that with low-duty-factor modes like 
CW and SSB, but if you are running much more than 3:1 SWR you may be in 
danger of damaging the feedline.


Alan N1AL


On 04/21/2017 06:28 AM, Jim Miller wrote:

Wes

Can you describe your affected antennas?

73

Jim ab3cv

On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:56 AM, Wes Stewart 
wrote:

A couple of points.

If you believe that an SWR of >3 necessarily degrades the efficiency
of an antenna, you are simply wrong.

If the "tuner" components have to be derated to this extent then
perhaps it should be called a line flattener rather than a tuner
because a lot of guys are still going to need a tuner.




On 4/21/2017 4:34 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote: The KPA1500 tuner range
is fine. If your antennas have >3:1 SWR you need to do some work
outside. It will help your signal much more than the amp. Even when
I operated the RTTY Roundup in January after an ice storm my
antennas were within this amplifiers SWR range.

John KK9A


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Re: [Elecraft] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[iw2noy]

wayne burdick wrote
> We’re pleased to announce our KPA1500 solid-state amplifier, covering 160
> to 6 meters. Max power output is 1500 Watts. Other important features
> include:
> 
>   - Small RF deck fits on nearly any desktop (~4.5 x 13 x 11.5”, HWD);
> weighs only ~22 pounds
>   - [...]
*/
>  

>  - Silent PIN-diode T/R switching (no QSK relays)
/
> 
*

Can't believe it... YOU DID IT !!! O_O
Great result !

I love Elecraft ;-)

73's de iw2noy / w2noy



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http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/New-from-Elecraft-KPA1500-amplifier-with-built-in-ATU-separate-power-supply-tp7629660p7629694.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Jim Miller]

Wes

Can you describe your affected antennas?

73

Jim ab3cv

On Apr 21, 2017, at 8:56 AM, Wes Stewart  wrote:

A couple of points.

If you believe that an SWR of >3 necessarily degrades the efficiency of an 
antenna, you are simply wrong.

If the "tuner" components have to be derated to this extent then perhaps it 
should be called a line flattener rather than a tuner because a lot of guys are 
still going to need a tuner.



> On 4/21/2017 4:34 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:
> The KPA1500 tuner range is fine. If your antennas have >3:1 SWR you need
> to do some work outside. It will help your signal much more than the amp.
> Even when I operated the RTTY Roundup in January after an ice storm my
> antennas were within this amplifiers SWR range.
> 
> John KK9A
> 
> from: Wes Stewartn7ws
> Fri Apr 21 01:18:59 EDT 2017
> ]
> Not enough full power tuner range.
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[brian]

John,

Don't agree--unless there truly is something wrong with the antenna, 
connections or feedline.


Does your 80 or 160M antenna cover the entire band with <3:1 SWR?

If fact, on those bands the extra loss due to SWR is negligible with 
even 5:1 SWR's with usual coax. On 80M with a 5:1 SWR and 150' of RG8, 
TLW computes an additional loss of about 0.5 dB. The 4.5 db gain due to 
the extra power far outweighs the extra feedline loss.  Factoring in 
tuner loss doesn't change the conclusions.  Even on 20M, the extra loss 
for the above would be about 1.3 dB.


My experience with ice is much different.  Adding ice to a 4 el quad, 
the resonant frequency on 20M would shift 400 KHz (lower) giving 4:1 
SWR's in the phone band.  One could load it but run of the mill baluns 
at the feedpoint would pop at legal limit!


73 de Brian/K3KO


On 4/21/2017 11:34 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

The KPA1500 tuner range is fine. If your antennas have >3:1 SWR you need
to do some work outside. It will help your signal much more than the amp.
Even when I operated the RTTY Roundup in January after an ice storm my
antennas were within this amplifiers SWR range.

John KK9A

from: Wes Stewartn7ws
Fri Apr 21 01:18:59 EDT 2017
]
Not enough full power tuner range.

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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[David Bunte]

Wes -

Excellent points. One of the locals has very fine antennas, but really
appreciates the fact that his PW-1 can make the SWR look a 'bit' better. At
my QTH, and TUNER, is absolutely necessary... but that is because I have
only one antenna, and it is usable without a tuner on only one band. The
internal tuners in most rigs can't handle it... the tuner in my K3, or my
KAT500, are perfect on most bands. But a 30' vertical is a HUGE challenge
for ANY tuner on 160... and many can't handle it on 80.

Dave - K9FN

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 8:56 AM, Wes Stewart  wrote:

> A couple of points.
>
> If you believe that an SWR of >3 necessarily degrades the efficiency of an
> antenna, you are simply wrong.
>
> If the "tuner" components have to be derated to this extent then perhaps
> it should be called a line flattener rather than a tuner because a lot of
> guys are still going to need a tuner.
>
>
>
>
> On 4/21/2017 4:34 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:
>
>> The KPA1500 tuner range is fine. If your antennas have >3:1 SWR you need
>> to do some work outside. It will help your signal much more than the amp.
>> Even when I operated the RTTY Roundup in January after an ice storm my
>> antennas were within this amplifiers SWR range.
>>
>> John KK9A
>>
>> from: Wes Stewartn7ws
>> Fri Apr 21 01:18:59 EDT 2017
>> ]
>> Not enough full power tuner range.
>>
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Wes Stewart]

A couple of points.

If you believe that an SWR of >3 necessarily degrades the efficiency of an 
antenna, you are simply wrong.


If the "tuner" components have to be derated to this extent then perhaps it 
should be called a line flattener rather than a tuner because a lot of guys are 
still going to need a tuner.




On 4/21/2017 4:34 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

The KPA1500 tuner range is fine. If your antennas have >3:1 SWR you need
to do some work outside. It will help your signal much more than the amp.
Even when I operated the RTTY Roundup in January after an ice storm my
antennas were within this amplifiers SWR range.

John KK9A

from: Wes Stewartn7ws
Fri Apr 21 01:18:59 EDT 2017
]
Not enough full power tuner range.



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[Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[j...@kk9a.com]

The KPA1500 tuner range is fine. If your antennas have >3:1 SWR you need
to do some work outside. It will help your signal much more than the amp.
Even when I operated the RTTY Roundup in January after an ice storm my
antennas were within this amplifiers SWR range.

John KK9A

from: Wes Stewartn7ws
Fri Apr 21 01:18:59 EDT 2017
]
Not enough full power tuner range.

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[Elecraft] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[j...@kk9a.com]

Nice!  When you asked what we would want in a high power amp, this matched
my wish list perfectly.  Great job Wayne!

John KK9A

From: Wayne Burdick n6kr
Fri Apr 21 00:01:29 EDT 2017

We’re pleased to announce our KPA1500 solid-state amplifier, covering 160
to 6 meters. Max power output is 1500 Watts. Other important features
include:

  - Small RF deck fits on nearly any desktop (~4.5 x 13 x 11.5”, HWD);
weighs only ~22 pounds
  - Separate lightweight switching power supply weighs ~15 pounds
(standard cable is 6 feet long)
  - Styling matches our other K-Line products
  - Built-in wide-range antenna tuner (ATU) with instant recall of
per-band/per-segment settings
  - Dual antenna jacks
  - Rich I/O complement including Ethernet
  - Interfaces to nearly any transceiver; fully integrated with K3 and K3S
  - Extensive parametric monitoring ensures safe operation
  - Silent PIN-diode T/R switching (no QSK relays)

Introductory price: $5995.

For photos and additional information, use the links below:

   http://www.elecraft.com/KPA1500/KPA1500%20FAQ%20rev%20A1b.pdf


If you’d like to be notified when we begin taking orders, please contact
Elecraft. Or add your name to the list at the Visalia DX convention this
weekend.

Required notification: "This device has not yet been authorized as
required by FCC rules. It is not, and may not be
offered for sale, or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is
obtained."

73,
Wayne, N6KR
Eric, WA6HHQ

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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Ken K6MR]

The Anan SDR folks are doing this using an external coupler feeding one of the 
receivers in the Anan. Google “Pure Signal”, which is their name for the 
implementation.  I think it’s a VK who is doing the firmware. There are a few 
YouTube videos showing the end result, and it is really impressive.  The basic 
concept is pretty simple, but as always the devil is in the details. Way above 
my pay grade :^)

Ken K6MR


From: 'Stephen Bloom' sbl...@acsalaska.net 
[Elecraft_K3]<mailto:elecraft...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 11:20 PM
To: elecraft...@yahoogroups.com<mailto:elecraft...@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in 
ATU, separate power supply


Ken:

How would one implement this.  I know that the real weak spot amongst the high 
power solid state amps available to the Amateur community has been high IMD, 
due to what I understand are limits to the existing DMOS chips.

Thanks/73
Steve KL7SB


From: elecraft...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:elecraft...@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 8:48 PM
To: elecraft...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in 
ATU, separate power supply


The Elecraft folks should be in charge of government secrets… nothing would 
ever leak  :^)

One interesting item in the rear panel photo: Tx Sample.  Output for “Pure 
Signal” style IMD improvement using pre-distortion in an SDR radio?

Ken K6MR



.


__,_._,___

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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Wes Stewart]

Not enough full power tuner range.
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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Wayne Burdick]

Ken K6MR  wrote:

> One interesting item in the rear panel photo: Tx Sample.  Output for “Pure 
> Signal” style IMD improvement using pre-distortion in an SDR radio?

Yes.

Wayne
N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Ken K6MR]

The Elecraft folks should be in charge of government secrets… nothing would 
ever leak  :^)

One interesting item in the rear panel photo: Tx Sample.  Output for “Pure 
Signal” style IMD improvement using pre-distortion in an SDR radio?

Ken K6MR

From: 'Stephen Bloom' sbl...@acsalaska.net 
[Elecraft_K3]<mailto:elecraft...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 9:40 PM
To: elecraft...@yahoogroups.com<mailto:elecraft...@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Elecraft_K3] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in 
ATU, separate power supply


Wow …Wayne and Eric, you do realize, this is the closest thing ever to a 
unicorn turning real, right?

Congrats/73
Steve KL7SB who *will* own 1 or 2 of these puppies


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[Elecraft] New from Elecraft: KPA1500 amplifier with built-in ATU, separate power supply

[Wayne Burdick]

We’re pleased to announce our KPA1500 solid-state amplifier, covering 160 to 6 
meters. Max power output is 1500 Watts. Other important features include:

  - Small RF deck fits on nearly any desktop (~4.5 x 13 x 11.5”, HWD); weighs 
only ~22 pounds
  - Separate lightweight switching power supply weighs ~15 pounds (standard 
cable is 6 feet long)
  - Styling matches our other K-Line products
  - Built-in wide-range antenna tuner (ATU) with instant recall of 
per-band/per-segment settings
  - Dual antenna jacks
  - Rich I/O complement including Ethernet
  - Interfaces to nearly any transceiver; fully integrated with K3 and K3S
  - Extensive parametric monitoring ensures safe operation
  - Silent PIN-diode T/R switching (no QSK relays)

Introductory price: $5995.

For photos and additional information, use the links below:

   http://www.elecraft.com/KPA1500/KPA1500%20FAQ%20rev%20A1b.pdf


If you’d like to be notified when we begin taking orders, please contact 
Elecraft. Or add your name to the list at the Visalia DX convention this 
weekend. 

Required notification: "This device has not yet been authorized as required by 
FCC rules. It is not, and may not be
offered for sale, or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is obtained."

73,
Wayne, N6KR
Eric, WA6HHQ

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