Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Yes, I find this to be true as well.   I also suggest one tweak the TEXT 
DEC value to something other than AUTO.  In my experience a value of 3 
or 4 works well.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 11/30/2017 3:45 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
I get "reasonable" results. What I find is that the faster the sender, 
the better the decode. The ways I have found to improve decode are:


  Use CWT to exactly tune the signal.
  Use narrow bandwidth -- 250 Hz or less on the DSP filter
  Adjust the RF gain to minimize noise while still having signal.

I use CW 5--40 as my usual decoder setting.

73 Bill AE6JV



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Bill Frantz]

I get "reasonable" results. What I find is that the faster the 
sender, the better the decode. The ways I have found to improve 
decode are:


  Use CWT to exactly tune the signal.
  Use narrow bandwidth -- 250 Hz or less on the DSP filter
  Adjust the RF gain to minimize noise while still having signal.

I use CW 5--40 as my usual decoder setting.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 11/27/17 at 3:46 AM, jstengrev...@comcast.net (John 
Stengrevics) wrote:


I too have never been able to get the CW decoder to work well.  
It only works if signals are super strong - precisely when I 
don’t need it.


Anybody have any suggestions?


---
Bill Frantz|Security, like correctness, is| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  |not an add-on feature. - Attr-| 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |ibuted to Andrew Tanenbaum| Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[M. George]

Thanks for posting the videos Dick K6KR and John KK9A.  Fun to watch...
this thread just keeps going but I'm glad to see some more rounded
responses regarding contesting.  I made a couple of videos running stations
in the ARRL SS if you would like to see the perspective of a more involved
exchange.  I'm only running one radio, but you get some commentary along
with me running the stations.  You can't do any of this with a CW reader...
it's just not possible or practical for that matter.  I certainly don't
have a huge pile up calling me, but it would just never work trying to use
something that is decoding the CW.  The only thing you use is the grey
matter between your ears.  I also make several fills using the paddle as
you can see in the videos.

*Here are the videos:*

20 Meters :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTX255sEVpQ

15 Meters :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GPhl8hiGgs

Most would never put themselves out there for commentary... so here I go
anyway.  I hope someone finds the video interesting.  The setup is a 4K
desktop showing the new N1MM+ spectrum scope as fed by Win4K3Suite.  I'm
running along at a pretty good clip, but if you watch the videos, you will
see that I QRS several times based on the speed and or copy of the calling
station.

Max NG7M
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Fred Moore]

Not a looser at all..   I'm quite happy to not play in the robot CW
pool.  Most of the time these roboCW guys leave their rig off, except
during the contest, so life is very good for the rest of us. 

BTW sorry I didn't consult you before I posted my comments..   I'll try
to do better in the future... I bow to your cow dung, and those who you
know, who most likely sit in the dung you fling. 

My last comment on the subject.. 

  Regards.. Fred

Fred Moore
email: f...@fmeco.com
   wd8...@gmail.com
phone: 321-217-8699

On 11/28/17 1:48 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> You're the loser on that one, Fred. While there may be guys like that,
> the vast majority of contesters are not in that category.  All the
> great contesters I know (and I know a lot of them) can pick fly specs
> out of cow dung.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 11/28/2017 6:48 AM, Fred Moore wrote:
>> I quit contesting when about 5 years ago, when I walked into the 20
>> meter CW station at field day to relieve someone, I found 5 guys who
>> could not copy any CW at all, averaging 140-150/hour one was watching CW
>> skimmer and clicking on the calls, one was sending call/599 with
>> keyboard and one was logging with another keyboard.  The other two were
>> there just in case someone got tired of typing..  All at the same time
>> they were telling jokes and drinking coffee.
>
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to f...@fmeco.com


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Gary Smith]

Another thing about hearing and knowing 
the code is the errors you get if you use 
the calls posted to log. I usually don't 
go "assisted" but did this contest because 
I wasn't in it to compete but to give Q's 
to those in competition and I was on a 
time constraint.

One call, I don't remember which it was 
was spotted in N1MM with a final suffix as 
"T" but whoever posted it was incorrect, 
it was a "N". The guy was sending pretty 
quickly, about 40 WPM and it was easy to 
miss but if I hadn't been listening to 
every letter and relied on the spot or the 
K3s reader, I wouldn't have gotten it & 
they were too faint (I think) for the CW 
reader to pick up well. Don't know, wasn't 
using it.

That said, I'd rather have someone wanting 
to know CW use the reader than not 
participate in the contest because they 
still haven't become truly skilled at 
copying overly fast CW in a contest. As 
long as they're stressed enough to be in 
it, they will get better to where they 
don't need it. It's a crutch but sometimes 
we need to use crutches in life.

My 2 pence.

73,

Gary
KA1J


> Absolutely correct.  Successful contest operators rely almost entirely
> on their CW ability other than the use of the programmed messages.
> 
> I just saw another post about not sending over 30 wpm to have better
> rate,  TI7W was sending much faster had a rate of about 210 per hour
> for the entire 48 hour contest.  I did hear him slower as well but
> mostly was a lot faster.  ZF2MJ was in the same mode as well. 73
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jim Brown" <j...@audiosystemsgroup.com>
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 11:00:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder
> 
> On 11/27/2017 4:52 PM, Jim Cassidy wrote:
> > Just when did the totally incorrect fact that the high speed contest
> > operators are using CW decoders get started??  NO truth to that at
> > all
> 
> You're absolutely right, Jim. It's those beginning CW ops who don't
> know CW, or haven't developed their copying ability to contesting
> speeds, or who don't feel confident about their copying ability, who
> are using code readers.
> 
> Most serious contesters, including me, let their logging program SEND
> repetitive things. Some great contest operators still send a lot with
> a paddle, but let the computer call CQ. And some ops send a lot more
> with the paddle than they should. :) I used to have a pretty good
> fist, but it's declined with age. So when we let the computer send for
> us, we're doing others a favor by producing cleaner, well-spaced,
> error-free CW that makes easier copy for both their brains and their
> readers.
> 
> As a founding member of CWOPS, I'm proud of our members who have done
> such a great job developing and executing a mentoring program for hams
> who want to learn CW and build their skills.
> 
> 73,Jim K9YC
> 
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to jc_k...@q.com
> 
> -- 
> Jim Cassidy   
> 
> KI7Y
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to g...@ka1j.com
> 



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Jim Brown]

You're the loser on that one, Fred. While there may be guys like that, 
the vast majority of contesters are not in that category.  All the great 
contesters I know (and I know a lot of them) can pick fly specs out of 
cow dung.


73, Jim K9YC

On 11/28/2017 6:48 AM, Fred Moore wrote:

I quit contesting when about 5 years ago, when I walked into the 20
meter CW station at field day to relieve someone, I found 5 guys who
could not copy any CW at all, averaging 140-150/hour one was watching CW
skimmer and clicking on the calls, one was sending call/599 with
keyboard and one was logging with another keyboard.  The other two were
there just in case someone got tired of typing..  All at the same time
they were telling jokes and drinking coffee.



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[K9MA]

On 11/28/2017 07:16, Jim Stahl via Elecraft wrote:

A good CW contest op will adjust speed to the conditions. It’s a bit like 
tennis, with the point being to keep a rally going, not to demolish the other 
guy.


One big difference between contesting and other competitive events is 
that the competitors have to cooperate with each other, so demolishing 
the other guy is completely counterproductive.


73,

Scott K9MA

--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Jim Stahl via Elecraft]

Would you quit contesting if you walked into the 20 meter RTTY tent at Field 
Day and saw the same thing?  And BTW, 140/hr on Field Day CW ain’t going to 
happen even running a great pileup. FD ops just aren’t as fast as European QRQ 
ops in CQWW or the like, and tuning around (however it is done) is never going 
to be as fast as having guys lined up to work you.

When I describe contesting to non-ham friends I invoke a relatively recent ad 
campaign: It’s like finding a guy to say “Do you hear me now?” to which he 
responds “Yes, I hear you, do you hear me?” to which I respond “Yes, now is 
there anybody else out there who hears me?”

No, it’s not exchanging non-trivial information, and it’s not person to person 
chatting. It may not be one’s preferred cup of tea. But it’s not crazy.


73  -  Jim  K8MR





> On Nov 28, 2017, at 9:48 AM, Fred Moore <f...@fmeco.com> wrote:
> 
> I quit contesting when about 5 years ago, when I walked into the 20
> meter CW station at field day to relieve someone, I found 5 guys who
> could not copy any CW at all, averaging 140-150/hour one was watching CW
> skimmer and clicking on the calls, one was sending call/599 with
> keyboard and one was logging with another keyboard.  The other two were
> there just in case someone got tired of typing..  All at the same time
> they were telling jokes and drinking coffee.
> 
> I'm out of here says I, I still work FD, but refuse to work a CW
> contest, yes 30 meters is your friend on contest weekends
> 
> Fred Moore
> email: f...@fmeco.com
>   wd8...@gmail.com
> phone: 321-217-8699
> 
> On 11/27/17 10:30 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
>> I certainly sympathize with your feelings Fred. I too quit contesting when 
>> all RSTs were 5NN and rude behavior became acceptable. That was a long, long 
>> time ago. 
>> 
>> I just segue to 30 meters or QRT until the mayhem is over and I can have a 
>> real QSO with someone. 
>> 
>> Operating is, for me, a form of meditation that reduces stress. The hand 
>> that reaches for my key has gotten a lot older over the past 65 years of 
>> pounding brass but the effect on me is still the same.  I choose to keep it 
>> that way.  
>> 
>> 73, Ron AC7AC
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
>> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Fred Moore
>> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 5:09 PM
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder
>> 
>> CW skimmer can copy almost anything.  I will not play in their sand box... 
>> 
>> I think we need a good contest where each ham sends an actual RST he copes, 
>> and a personally designed 3 alpha numeric check sum.  The check sum get 
>> published when he/she turns in their log.  The logs get computer compared 
>> any call where RST and Checksum that is copied correctly during the exchange 
>> gets 5 points anyone that is incorrect looses 100 points for that QSO.  The 
>> contest sponsor should be putting out false calls and frequencies on the 
>> frequency spotter list, if any of those calls show up on any list the whole 
>> log gets tossed and their name published as a cheat..  There should also be 
>> people who only call CQTEST and never answer a call, if there call shows 
>> that log is also tossed.
>> 
>> I have not use for CW decoded qso's as a learning tool or otherwise.. off my 
>> soapbox
>> 
>> Fred Moore
>> email: f...@fmeco.com
>>   wd8...@gmail.com
>> phone: 321-217-8699
>> 
> 
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to jimk...@aol.com

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Fred Moore]

I quit contesting when about 5 years ago, when I walked into the 20
meter CW station at field day to relieve someone, I found 5 guys who
could not copy any CW at all, averaging 140-150/hour one was watching CW
skimmer and clicking on the calls, one was sending call/599 with
keyboard and one was logging with another keyboard.  The other two were
there just in case someone got tired of typing..  All at the same time
they were telling jokes and drinking coffee.

I'm out of here says I, I still work FD, but refuse to work a CW
contest, yes 30 meters is your friend on contest weekends

Fred Moore
email: f...@fmeco.com
   wd8...@gmail.com
phone: 321-217-8699

On 11/27/17 10:30 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> I certainly sympathize with your feelings Fred. I too quit contesting when 
> all RSTs were 5NN and rude behavior became acceptable. That was a long, long 
> time ago. 
>
> I just segue to 30 meters or QRT until the mayhem is over and I can have a 
> real QSO with someone. 
>
> Operating is, for me, a form of meditation that reduces stress. The hand that 
> reaches for my key has gotten a lot older over the past 65 years of pounding 
> brass but the effect on me is still the same.  I choose to keep it that way.  
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Fred Moore
> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 5:09 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder
>
> CW skimmer can copy almost anything.  I will not play in their sand box... 
>
> I think we need a good contest where each ham sends an actual RST he copes, 
> and a personally designed 3 alpha numeric check sum.  The check sum get 
> published when he/she turns in their log.  The logs get computer compared any 
> call where RST and Checksum that is copied correctly during the exchange gets 
> 5 points anyone that is incorrect looses 100 points for that QSO.  The 
> contest sponsor should be putting out false calls and frequencies on the 
> frequency spotter list, if any of those calls show up on any list the whole 
> log gets tossed and their name published as a cheat..  There should also be 
> people who only call CQTEST and never answer a call, if there call shows that 
> log is also tossed.
>
> I have not use for CW decoded qso's as a learning tool or otherwise.. off my 
> soapbox
>
> Fred Moore
> email: f...@fmeco.com
>wd8...@gmail.com
> phone: 321-217-8699
>


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Jim Stahl via Elecraft]

A good CW contest op will adjust speed to the conditions. It’s a bit like 
tennis, with the point being to keep a rally going, not to demolish the other 
guy. The other guy hits me a hard one, it’s a lot more satisfying to hit a hard 
one back. A less skilled player hits me a soft one, I’m not going to try to 
prove to him how hard I can hit it back. Rather I’ll hit it back at a pace 
appropriate for his skill level.

If I’m tuning and hear a high speed guy (I’m one myself) I’ll make a point to 
work him. For if I don’t get through immediately, I won’t have to wait long for 
a second chance.

TI7W and ZF2MJ weren’t running those awesome rates just because they were 
sending faster than the others. They were using (effectively) two radios at a 
time, interleaving QSOs on two different bands. That’s a skill beyond my pay 
grade.


73  -  Jim   K8MR



> On Nov 28, 2017, at 2:38 AM, Jim Cassidy <jc_k...@q.com> wrote:
> 
> Absolutely correct.  Successful contest operators rely almost entirely on 
> their CW ability other than the use of the programmed messages.
> 
> I just saw another post about not sending over 30 wpm to have better rate,  
> TI7W was sending much faster had a rate of about 210 per hour for the entire 
> 48 hour contest.  I did hear him slower as well but mostly was a lot faster.  
> ZF2MJ was in the same mode as well.
> 73
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jim Brown" <j...@audiosystemsgroup.com>
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 11:00:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder
> 
> On 11/27/2017 4:52 PM, Jim Cassidy wrote:
>> Just when did the totally incorrect fact that the high speed contest 
>> operators are using CW decoders get started??  NO truth to that at all
> 
> You're absolutely right, Jim. It's those beginning CW ops who don't know 
> CW, or haven't developed their copying ability to contesting speeds, or 
> who don't feel confident about their copying ability, who are using code 
> readers.
> 
> Most serious contesters, including me, let their logging program SEND 
> repetitive things. Some great contest operators still send a lot with a 
> paddle, but let the computer call CQ. And some ops send a lot more with 
> the paddle than they should. :) I used to have a pretty good fist, but 
> it's declined with age. So when we let the computer send for us, we're 
> doing others a favor by producing cleaner, well-spaced, error-free CW 
> that makes easier copy for both their brains and their readers.
> 
> As a founding member of CWOPS, I'm proud of our members who have done 
> such a great job developing and executing a mentoring program for hams 
> who want to learn CW and build their skills.
> 
> 73,Jim K9YC
> 

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Charlie T]

"In order to keep the robots from getting perfect copy on me either rag
chewing or the very few contests I enter, I've stopped using a keyer and
have reverted to sending with a bug.  Not very many robots can copy even a
good bug fist. " 

Is "bug sending" different from the Morse standard of 3:1 dot/dash ratio?
It would seem to me that properly sent Morse would sound the same regardless
if it was sent touching two wires together or by keyboard.

I must be missing something here.

Charlie k3ICH



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Doug Turnbull]

Gentlemen and Ladies,
 Calm down we enjoy a wonderful technological hobby.I am a CW rag
chewer but like the F1 button to send CQ in a contest and F2 to send the
report.   It saves my wrist.   Copy is by my ears though the K3 decoder is
there it will not cope with pileups so you use your ears.

 My new car has adaptive cruise control, lane assist and blind spot
monitoring - great the car is a bit safer!Technology is what our hobby
is about; FT8 and all.There are many rooms in the masters house.

 Enjoy and keep pounding the brass.

  73 Doug EI2CN

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of EUGENE GABRY
Sent: 27 November 2017 22:54
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder


> On November 27, 2017 at 2:39 PM Fred Moore wrote:
> 
>  CW contests have
> become a machine contest not a Ham contest...
> 


This is something I fight personally when I decide to enter a CW contest.
Technology is great, it has allowed those who are either not proficient at
CW or can't even copy CW, to be able to communicate.

I've always thought the focus of a "conTEST", whether CW or SSB was to test
the capabilities of the "operator" to accurately receive the information
sent, making as many contacts in the time period of the contest as possible.
Scores determined in part, by busted calls or other information copied
incorrectly, and then scoring against their peers. 


Today there are a lot of (Robots) that can decode CW. It is true that all
robots are not the same, and errors could occur. Just wonder when we draw
the line as to who/what is being judged for accuracy.  


I love the technology. It's great for communications. (I think you know
where I stand on robotic modes like FT8 :) )

But in a contest, "these days" it seems to come down to who has the best
robotics (machines) to eliminate the human element for the sake of driving
up the score to new levels.


73 Gene

N9TF  
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to turnb...@net1.ie

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Jim Cassidy]

Absolutely correct.  Successful contest operators rely almost entirely on their 
CW ability other than the use of the programmed messages.

I just saw another post about not sending over 30 wpm to have better rate,  
TI7W was sending much faster had a rate of about 210 per hour for the entire 48 
hour contest.  I did hear him slower as well but mostly was a lot faster.  
ZF2MJ was in the same mode as well.
73

- Original Message -
From: "Jim Brown" <j...@audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 11:00:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

On 11/27/2017 4:52 PM, Jim Cassidy wrote:
> Just when did the totally incorrect fact that the high speed contest 
> operators are using CW decoders get started??  NO truth to that at all

You're absolutely right, Jim. It's those beginning CW ops who don't know 
CW, or haven't developed their copying ability to contesting speeds, or 
who don't feel confident about their copying ability, who are using code 
readers.

Most serious contesters, including me, let their logging program SEND 
repetitive things. Some great contest operators still send a lot with a 
paddle, but let the computer call CQ. And some ops send a lot more with 
the paddle than they should. :) I used to have a pretty good fist, but 
it's declined with age. So when we let the computer send for us, we're 
doing others a favor by producing cleaner, well-spaced, error-free CW 
that makes easier copy for both their brains and their readers.

As a founding member of CWOPS, I'm proud of our members who have done 
such a great job developing and executing a mentoring program for hams 
who want to learn CW and build their skills.

73,Jim K9YC


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to jc_k...@q.com

-- 
Jim Cassidy   

KI7Y
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Jim Brown]

On 11/27/2017 4:52 PM, Jim Cassidy wrote:

Just when did the totally incorrect fact that the high speed contest operators 
are using CW decoders get started??  NO truth to that at all


You're absolutely right, Jim. It's those beginning CW ops who don't know 
CW, or haven't developed their copying ability to contesting speeds, or 
who don't feel confident about their copying ability, who are using code 
readers.


Most serious contesters, including me, let their logging program SEND 
repetitive things. Some great contest operators still send a lot with a 
paddle, but let the computer call CQ. And some ops send a lot more with 
the paddle than they should. :) I used to have a pretty good fist, but 
it's declined with age. So when we let the computer send for us, we're 
doing others a favor by producing cleaner, well-spaced, error-free CW 
that makes easier copy for both their brains and their readers.


As a founding member of CWOPS, I'm proud of our members who have done 
such a great job developing and executing a mentoring program for hams 
who want to learn CW and build their skills.


73,Jim K9YC


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[M. George]

Maybe the following link will be a good way to end this 'never ending
thread' that has now gone off the 'I know what is best for CW and amateur
radio' rails. :)  I hope everyone gets a chuckle out of this meme
<http://www.nc7j.com/downloads/memes/hamradio/mostinterestingcwop.jpg>.

www.nc7j.com/downloads/memes/hamradio/mostinterestingcwop.jpg

8-) Max NG7M

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 8:30 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <r...@cobi.biz> wrote:

> I certainly sympathize with your feelings Fred. I too quit contesting when
> all RSTs were 5NN and rude behavior became acceptable. That was a long,
> long time ago.
>
> I just segue to 30 meters or QRT until the mayhem is over and I can have a
> real QSO with someone.
>
> Operating is, for me, a form of meditation that reduces stress. The hand
> that reaches for my key has gotten a lot older over the past 65 years of
> pounding brass but the effect on me is still the same.  I choose to keep it
> that way.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-bounces@
> mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Fred Moore
> Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 5:09 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder
>
> CW skimmer can copy almost anything.  I will not play in their sand box...
>
> I think we need a good contest where each ham sends an actual RST he
> copes, and a personally designed 3 alpha numeric check sum.  The check sum
> get published when he/she turns in their log.  The logs get computer
> compared any call where RST and Checksum that is copied correctly during
> the exchange gets 5 points anyone that is incorrect looses 100 points for
> that QSO.  The contest sponsor should be putting out false calls and
> frequencies on the frequency spotter list, if any of those calls show up on
> any list the whole log gets tossed and their name published as a cheat..
> There should also be people who only call CQTEST and never answer a call,
> if there call shows that log is also tossed.
>
> I have not use for CW decoded qso's as a learning tool or otherwise.. off
> my soapbox
>
> Fred Moore
> email: f...@fmeco.com
>wd8...@gmail.com
> phone: 321-217-8699
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to m.matthew.geo...@gmail.com
>



-- 
M. George
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

I certainly sympathize with your feelings Fred. I too quit contesting when all 
RSTs were 5NN and rude behavior became acceptable. That was a long, long time 
ago. 

I just segue to 30 meters or QRT until the mayhem is over and I can have a real 
QSO with someone. 

Operating is, for me, a form of meditation that reduces stress. The hand that 
reaches for my key has gotten a lot older over the past 65 years of pounding 
brass but the effect on me is still the same.  I choose to keep it that way.  

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Fred Moore
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 5:09 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

CW skimmer can copy almost anything.  I will not play in their sand box... 

I think we need a good contest where each ham sends an actual RST he copes, and 
a personally designed 3 alpha numeric check sum.  The check sum get published 
when he/she turns in their log.  The logs get computer compared any call where 
RST and Checksum that is copied correctly during the exchange gets 5 points 
anyone that is incorrect looses 100 points for that QSO.  The contest sponsor 
should be putting out false calls and frequencies on the frequency spotter 
list, if any of those calls show up on any list the whole log gets tossed and 
their name published as a cheat..  There should also be people who only call 
CQTEST and never answer a call, if there call shows that log is also tossed.

I have not use for CW decoded qso's as a learning tool or otherwise.. off my 
soapbox

Fred Moore
email: f...@fmeco.com
   wd8...@gmail.com
phone: 321-217-8699

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Fred Moore]

CW skimmer can copy almost anything.  I will not play in their sand box... 

I think we need a good contest where each ham sends an actual RST he
copes, and a personally designed 3 alpha numeric check sum.  The check
sum get published when he/she turns in their log.  The logs get computer
compared any call where RST and Checksum that is copied correctly during
the exchange gets 5 points anyone that is incorrect looses 100 points
for that QSO.  The contest sponsor should be putting out false calls and
frequencies on the frequency spotter list, if any of those calls show up
on any list the whole log gets tossed and their name published as a
cheat..  There should also be people who only call CQTEST and never
answer a call, if there call shows that log is also tossed.

I have not use for CW decoded qso's as a learning tool or otherwise..  
off my soapbox    

Fred Moore
email: f...@fmeco.com
   wd8...@gmail.com
phone: 321-217-8699

On 11/27/17 5:53 PM, EUGENE GABRY wrote:
>> On November 27, 2017 at 2:39 PM Fred Moore wrote:
>>
>>  CW contests have
>> become a machine contest not a Ham contest...
>>
>
> This is something I fight personally when I decide to enter a CW contest. 
> Technology is great, it has allowed those who are either not proficient at CW 
> or can't even copy CW, to be able to communicate.
>
> I've always thought the focus of a "conTEST", whether CW or SSB was to test 
> the capabilities of the "operator" to accurately receive the information 
> sent, making as many contacts in the time period of the contest as possible. 
> Scores determined in part, by busted calls or other information copied 
> incorrectly, and then scoring against their peers. 
>
>
> Today there are a lot of (Robots) that can decode CW. It is true that all 
> robots are not the same, and errors could occur. Just wonder when we draw the 
> line as to who/what is being judged for accuracy.  
>
>
> I love the technology. It's great for communications. (I think you know where 
> I stand on robotic modes like FT8 :) )
>
> But in a contest, "these days" it seems to come down to who has the best 
> robotics (machines) to eliminate the human element for the sake of driving up 
> the score to new levels.
>
>
> 73 Gene
>
> N9TF  
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to f...@fmeco.com


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Jim Cassidy]

Just when did the totally incorrect fact that the high speed contest operators 
are using CW decoders get started??  NO truth to that at all.  And pretty well 
proven by the original question of this thread.  CW decoders need good steady 
on frequency signals to work reliably.  That almost never happens in contest 
pile up calling.



- Original Message -
From: "Jim Sheldon" <w...@cox.net>
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2017 3:04:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

In order to keep the robots from getting perfect copy on me either rag chewing 
or the very few contests I enter, I've stopped using a keyer and have reverted 
to sending with a bug.  Not very many robots can copy even a good bug fist.  

I'm of the opinion that robot copying and power over 500 watts output should be 
outlawed in contests.  That would help level the playing field immensely.  
(flame suit on)

> On Nov 27, 2017, at 4:33 PM, EUGENE GABRY <n...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On November 27, 2017 at 12:44 PM Jim Brown <j...@audiosystemsgroup.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> And another FWIW -- putting a lot of hours into a CW contest will 
>> improve your code speed significantly!
>> 
>> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
> Totally agree with this statement. I don't do much CW rag chew now as I used 
> to. So I'm losing some of my edge. But even from the beginning of a CW 
> contest to the end, the 36WPM sending speed at the end seems the same as the 
> 26WPM speed I started with. And I'm able to rag chew a bit at the higher 
> speed rather than only copy the call and report. SS is the best for honing in 
> accuracy with speed throughout just the contest period ass the exchange is 
> long and mostly unpredictable.
> 
> 73 Gene, N9TF
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w...@cox.net

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to jc_k...@q.com

-- 
Jim Cassidy   

KI7Y
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Hisashi T Fujinaka]

I view contests as "an easy way to work DX" for me. I'm on a city lot
that's getting noisier and noisier and CQWW is a good time to find a lot
of DX stations all on the air and willing to make a contact with this
guy with 100W into a vertical.

Not that I got on this year for either contest. :)

On Mon, 27 Nov 2017, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

I have refrained from working ANY and ALL contests for several years. 
For that and other reasons.   I view contests today in the same class as 
"road rage".


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 11/27/2017 2:39 PM, Fred Moore wrote:

This is exactly why I do not work CW contests anymore.  CW contests have
become a machine contest not a Ham contest... But some people will go to
any expense to make sure they are number one.  Not interested in even
giving them a 1 point..

Fred Moore
email: f...@fmeco.com
wd8...@gmail.com
phone: 321-217-8699

On 11/27/17 8:54 AM, d...@elecraft.com wrote:

There's a lot of automation.

Here's one of the best in the world at ZF2MJ, running 20 and 15 meters 

simultaneously. It's kind of mind-boggling.


Dan (N6MJ) and Chris (K9LA) won WRTC in Boston, after placing quite high 

in earlier WRTC efforts.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3ncFJZqkTA

73 de Dick, K6KR


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 

[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill Frantz

Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 22:42
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

Under the rules, in the assisted categories, using decoders is legal. It 
is also legal, but perhaps unwise, to use the spotting network to "read" the 
call signs. Wiser is to verify a spotted call sign, which is a lot easier 
than to copy it cold. In the unassisted categories, all these techniques are 
illegal.


I think most stations were using a macro to send their report.
Since the report in CQ WW DX is constant, setting up a macro is easy. 
Copying the report is a different matter, but I found the reports easier to 
copy than the calls, since the reports were all numbers (with some Ts, As, 
and Ns tossed in for brevity).


73 Bill AE6JV

On 11/26/17 at 9:21 PM, marvwhee...@nwlink.com wrote:


I personally don't depend on the rig decoding but listening this
weekend let me know that either the big boys are using something to
decode station callsigns and are definite using an automated system to 

send their report.

Using the K3S cw speed option I saw several that read over 60 wpm. I
realize there are those that can copy that fast but not this old boy.


Bill Frantz|"Insofar as the propositions of mathematics
refer to
408-356-8506   | reality, they are not certain; and insofar
they are
www.pwpconsult.com | certain, they do not refer to reality.?
-- Einstein

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 

Message delivered to d...@elecraft.com


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to f...@fmeco.com

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to ht...@twofifty.com


--
Hisashi T Fujinaka - ht...@twofifty.com
BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

I have refrained from working ANY and ALL contests for several years.    
For that and other reasons.   I view contests today in the same class as 
"road rage".


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 11/27/2017 2:39 PM, Fred Moore wrote:

This is exactly why I do not work CW contests anymore.  CW contests have
become a machine contest not a Ham contest... But some people will go to
any expense to make sure they are number one.  Not interested in even
giving them a 1 point..

Fred Moore
email: f...@fmeco.com
wd8...@gmail.com
phone: 321-217-8699

On 11/27/17 8:54 AM, d...@elecraft.com wrote:

There's a lot of automation.

Here's one of the best in the world at ZF2MJ, running 20 and 15 meters 
simultaneously. It's kind of mind-boggling.

Dan (N6MJ) and Chris (K9LA) won WRTC in Boston, after placing quite high in 
earlier WRTC efforts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3ncFJZqkTA

73 de Dick, K6KR


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill Frantz
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 22:42
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

Under the rules, in the assisted categories, using decoders is legal. It is also legal, 
but perhaps unwise, to use the spotting network to "read" the call signs. Wiser 
is to verify a spotted call sign, which is a lot easier than to copy it cold. In the 
unassisted categories, all these techniques are illegal.

I think most stations were using a macro to send their report.
Since the report in CQ WW DX is constant, setting up a macro is easy. Copying 
the report is a different matter, but I found the reports easier to copy than 
the calls, since the reports were all numbers (with some Ts, As, and Ns tossed 
in for brevity).

73 Bill AE6JV

On 11/26/17 at 9:21 PM, marvwhee...@nwlink.com wrote:


I personally don't depend on the rig decoding but listening this
weekend let me know that either the big boys are using something to
decode station callsigns and are definite using an automated system to send 
their report.
Using the K3S cw speed option I saw several that read over 60 wpm. I
realize there are those that can copy that fast but not this old boy.


Bill Frantz|"Insofar as the propositions of mathematics
refer to
408-356-8506   | reality, they are not certain; and insofar
they are
www.pwpconsult.com | certain, they do not refer to reality.”
-- Einstein

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message 
delivered to d...@elecraft.com

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to f...@fmeco.com

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Jim Sheldon]

In order to keep the robots from getting perfect copy on me either rag chewing 
or the very few contests I enter, I've stopped using a keyer and have reverted 
to sending with a bug.  Not very many robots can copy even a good bug fist.  

I'm of the opinion that robot copying and power over 500 watts output should be 
outlawed in contests.  That would help level the playing field immensely.  
(flame suit on)

> On Nov 27, 2017, at 4:33 PM, EUGENE GABRY  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On November 27, 2017 at 12:44 PM Jim Brown  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> And another FWIW -- putting a lot of hours into a CW contest will 
>> improve your code speed significantly!
>> 
>> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
> Totally agree with this statement. I don't do much CW rag chew now as I used 
> to. So I'm losing some of my edge. But even from the beginning of a CW 
> contest to the end, the 36WPM sending speed at the end seems the same as the 
> 26WPM speed I started with. And I'm able to rag chew a bit at the higher 
> speed rather than only copy the call and report. SS is the best for honing in 
> accuracy with speed throughout just the contest period ass the exchange is 
> long and mostly unpredictable.
> 
> 73 Gene, N9TF
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to w...@cox.net

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[EUGENE GABRY]

> On November 27, 2017 at 2:39 PM Fred Moore wrote:
> 
>  CW contests have
> become a machine contest not a Ham contest...
> 


This is something I fight personally when I decide to enter a CW contest. 
Technology is great, it has allowed those who are either not proficient at CW 
or can't even copy CW, to be able to communicate.

I've always thought the focus of a "conTEST", whether CW or SSB was to test the 
capabilities of the "operator" to accurately receive the information sent, 
making as many contacts in the time period of the contest as possible. Scores 
determined in part, by busted calls or other information copied incorrectly, 
and then scoring against their peers. 


Today there are a lot of (Robots) that can decode CW. It is true that all 
robots are not the same, and errors could occur. Just wonder when we draw the 
line as to who/what is being judged for accuracy.  


I love the technology. It's great for communications. (I think you know where I 
stand on robotic modes like FT8 :) )

But in a contest, "these days" it seems to come down to who has the best 
robotics (machines) to eliminate the human element for the sake of driving up 
the score to new levels.


73 Gene

N9TF  
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Bill Frantz]

I was totally S My logging program gives me 6.6 hours of 
operation with 119 QSOs, so that's about 18 QSOs/hour. I had 
plenty of time to copy the exchange given the number of times I 
needed to hear the call to be sure I had copied it correctly. 
This was particularly true for those stations that did not send 
their call at the end of every QSO. I would guess that this 
scenerio is why Jim observes the easy with which contest 
exchanges are read by slow operators.


Remember, my goals were to improve my CW and have fun, not to 
rack up the bigest score. BTW, with 2 QSOs on 160M and 2 on 10M, 
I did manage QSOs on all contest bands.


37 Bill AE6JV

On 11/27/17 at 10:44 AM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote:

FWIW, many serious contesters, including me, have found that 
even when a station calls at a speed much lower than we're 
working, they still copy our exchange when we slow down only a 
bit, which suggests that either they've listened to us for a 
while to copy our exchange before calling or that they're using 
a CW reader.


---
Bill Frantz| gets() remains as a monument | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | to C's continuing support of | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | buffer overruns. | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[EUGENE GABRY]

> On November 27, 2017 at 12:44 PM Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> And another FWIW -- putting a lot of hours into a CW contest will 
> improve your code speed significantly!
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC

Totally agree with this statement. I don't do much CW rag chew now as I used 
to. So I'm losing some of my edge. But even from the beginning of a CW contest 
to the end, the 36WPM sending speed at the end seems the same as the 26WPM 
speed I started with. And I'm able to rag chew a bit at the higher speed rather 
than only copy the call and report. SS is the best for honing in accuracy with 
speed throughout just the contest period ass the exchange is long and mostly 
unpredictable.

73 Gene, N9TF
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Fred Moore]

This is exactly why I do not work CW contests anymore.  CW contests have
become a machine contest not a Ham contest... But some people will go to
any expense to make sure they are number one.  Not interested in even
giving them a 1 point..

Fred Moore
email: f...@fmeco.com
   wd8...@gmail.com
phone: 321-217-8699

On 11/27/17 8:54 AM, d...@elecraft.com wrote:
> There's a lot of automation.  
>
> Here's one of the best in the world at ZF2MJ, running 20 and 15 meters 
> simultaneously. It's kind of mind-boggling.
>
> Dan (N6MJ) and Chris (K9LA) won WRTC in Boston, after placing quite high in 
> earlier WRTC efforts.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3ncFJZqkTA
>
> 73 de Dick, K6KR
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill Frantz
> Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 22:42
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder
>
> Under the rules, in the assisted categories, using decoders is legal. It is 
> also legal, but perhaps unwise, to use the spotting network to "read" the 
> call signs. Wiser is to verify a spotted call sign, which is a lot easier 
> than to copy it cold. In the unassisted categories, all these techniques are 
> illegal.
>
> I think most stations were using a macro to send their report. 
> Since the report in CQ WW DX is constant, setting up a macro is easy. Copying 
> the report is a different matter, but I found the reports easier to copy than 
> the calls, since the reports were all numbers (with some Ts, As, and Ns 
> tossed in for brevity).
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> On 11/26/17 at 9:21 PM, marvwhee...@nwlink.com wrote:
>
>> I personally don't depend on the rig decoding but listening this 
>> weekend let me know that either the big boys are using something to 
>> decode station callsigns and are definite using an automated system to send 
>> their report.
>> Using the K3S cw speed option I saw several that read over 60 wpm. I 
>> realize there are those that can copy that fast but not this old boy.
> 
> Bill Frantz|"Insofar as the propositions of mathematics 
> refer to
> 408-356-8506   | reality, they are not certain; and insofar 
> they are
> www.pwpconsult.com | certain, they do not refer to reality.” 
> -- Einstein
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message 
> delivered to d...@elecraft.com
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to f...@fmeco.com

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Jim Brown]

Most CW contesting takes place at 25-30 WPM. 20 WPM is QRS. A few speed 
merchants bang away at 35 WPM or above. I worked most of CQWW CW this 
weekend QRP with good antennas. I was able to get through pileups by 
sending my call at 30-32 WPM often fitting it in between others sending 
theirs. A station calling at 15 WPM takes twice as long to send his call 
(and stations with long calls take even longer), filling up much of the 
available space. I found this very frustrating when the QRS station was 
in W0 or the east coast and I'm in W6 trying to work EU stations with 5W.


The CQWW exchange is stupid simple. 599xy, where xy is the station's 
zone. The US, Canada, Russia, and Australia are the only countries 
having more than one zone, and most contest logging software fills that 
in automatically when you enter a call. So if you're in the US or 
Canada, for 99% of contacts, all you need to copy is the call.


Our group, W6GJB, W6JTI, and me, has won Field Day 1A Battery several 
times. When calling CQ, we usually work around 25 wpm, and toward the 
end will slow down a bit. I dropped in on N6TV working SS on Sunday 
afternoon at W7RN a year ago. He was working at about 25 wpm.  He's won 
SS from that QTH, and often works DX contests from K3LR. The guys at 
W3LPL were working at about 25 WPM this weekend. All three are super 
stations with spectacular antenna farms.


FWIW, many serious contesters, including me, have found that even when a 
station calls at a speed much lower than we're working, they still copy 
our exchange when we slow down only a bit, which suggests that either 
they've listened to us for a while to copy our exchange before calling 
or that they're using a CW reader.


And another FWIW -- putting a lot of hours into a CW contest will 
improve your code speed significantly!


73, Jim K9YC

On 11/26/2017 6:49 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
I agree, in fact I'd suppose as the CW speed the number of competent 
operators decreases proportionally.    Now I'm not saying "contest at 
5 WPM" but certainly there are more that can copy 15 WPM than 50 
WPM.   Just sayin'..so for us slow folks and old folks...QRS. 



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Back when telegraphy was the most common way to pass traffic, either on wires 
or by wireless, many systems such as Western Union welded the weights on the 
semi-automatic keys for a dit speed of about 15 wpm and did not allow operators 
to use their own keys. That was based on long studies that showed traffic moved 
faster at slower speeds because slower speeds avoided mistakes, requests for 
"fills", etc. 

In the Army we stuck with 13 wpm on the CW nets for the same reason (ca. 1960). 
That's the speed the radio schools trained operators to use. Note that these 
messages were commonly 5-letter code groups that were meaningless until 
decoded, so accuracy was critical. It wasn't possible to spot a mistake like 
one can in plain language text. 

It sounds like today's Ham contesters are rediscovering the same thing. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob McGraw K4TAX
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 6:50 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

Kevin et al;

I agree, in fact I'd suppose as the CW speed the number of competent operators 
decreases proportionally.Now I'm not saying "contest at 5 WPM" but 
certainly there are more that can copy 15 WPM than 50 WPM. Just 
sayin'..so for us slow folks and old folks...QRS.

73

Bob, K4TAX


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

I've had good to moderate success using the CW decoder.   I find several 
things to being the key to good results.    First, usually the ATTN is 
required on lower frequency bands, 160M - 40M, along with correct 
adjustment of the RF Gain.   Here you want to see that only CW elements 
flash the bar on the CWT indicator.  Most hams seem to believe more gain 
makes for hearing weaker signals. While somewhat true, there's other 
factors involved.    Secondly, the sensitivity of the CW decoder needs 
to be correct for band conditions.   I find it does required different 
values for different band conditions, usually impacted by noise.    I 
usually have mine at 3 or 4, never at AUTO.  Finally,  poorly timed CW 
elements will not decode correctly.   I do find that near keyboard 
quality or keyboard sent CW decodes quite nicely.    Of course a static 
burst, thus triggering the decoder will produce *** or random 
characters.    Here AGC PLS value and the value of AGC SLP setting  has 
a marked effect on results.  In general I find the internal decoder to 
work equal to or better than many CW software applications I've tried.   
None are perfect in my findings.


73

Bob, K4TAX



On 11/27/2017 5:46 AM, John Stengrevics wrote:

I too have never been able to get the CW decoder to work well.  It only works 
if signals are super strong - precisely when I don’t need it.

Anybody have any suggestions?

John
WA1EAZ


On Nov 26, 2017, at 9:28 PM, K9MA  wrote:

Perhaps my K3 has a problem, but I've never been able to get the CW decoder to 
work very well.  (Nor the digital modes.)  Fortunately, I've been copying CW 
the old-fashioned way for some 50 years, and the K3 otherwise works just fine.

73,
Scott K9MA


On 11/26/2017 19:32, Bill Frantz wrote:

In previous years, I used the K3's decoder and it worked very well. But, for this 
contest, I bit the bullet and said, "I'm going to decode the calls myself to improve 
my CW." I had a lot of fun doing so, although I had to skip several stations that 
were sending above 30 WPM.

A small suggestion to those who know CW. If you are calling CQ and getting no 
answers, like late in the contest, consider slowing down so the CW impaired, 
like me, have a chance of making the contact. It may improve your score.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 11/26/17 at 4:09 PM, hk3j...@gmail.com (German Duran) wrote:


Wonderful. I was doing the CQ WW CW contest and a lot of the contest I
worked with a software to help decode the stations. In the last hours of
the contest I decided to configure the decoder of my Elecraft K3s and
started to decode the stations better than with any of the software that is
in the market for this job. Congratulations to Elecraft for this marvel.
Germán HK3J

-
Bill Frantz| When it comes to the world | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | around us, is there any choice | 16345 Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall | Los Gatos, CA 95032

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to k...@sdellington.us


--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to jstengrev...@comcast.net

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Graziano Roccon]

To me, the Elecraft radio have the best decoder ever seen in a radio and i 
tried a lot of different last models.

ciao, Graziano IW2NOY
> Il 27 novembre 2017 alle 12.46 John Stengrevics  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> 
> I too have never been able to get the CW decoder to work well.  It only works 
> if signals are super strong - precisely when I don’t need it.
> 
> Anybody have any suggestions?
> 
> John
> WA1EAZ
> 
> > On Nov 26, 2017, at 9:28 PM, K9MA  wrote:
> > 
> > Perhaps my K3 has a problem, but I've never been able to get the CW decoder 
> > to work very well.  (Nor the digital modes.)  Fortunately, I've been 
> > copying CW the old-fashioned way for some 50 years, and the K3 otherwise 
> > works just fine.
> > 
> > 73,
> > Scott K9MA
> > 
> > 
> > On 11/26/2017 19:32, Bill Frantz wrote:
> >> In previous years, I used the K3's decoder and it worked very well. But, 
> >> for this contest, I bit the bullet and said, "I'm going to decode the 
> >> calls myself to improve my CW." I had a lot of fun doing so, although I 
> >> had to skip several stations that were sending above 30 WPM.
> >> 
> >> A small suggestion to those who know CW. If you are calling CQ and getting 
> >> no answers, like late in the contest, consider slowing down so the CW 
> >> impaired, like me, have a chance of making the contact. It may improve 
> >> your score.
> >> 
> >> 73 Bill AE6JV
> >> 
> >> On 11/26/17 at 4:09 PM, hk3j...@gmail.com (German Duran) wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Wonderful. I was doing the CQ WW CW contest and a lot of the contest I
> >>> worked with a software to help decode the stations. In the last hours of
> >>> the contest I decided to configure the decoder of my Elecraft K3s and
> >>> started to decode the stations better than with any of the software that 
> >>> is
> >>> in the market for this job. Congratulations to Elecraft for this marvel.
> >>> Germán HK3J
> >> -
> >> Bill Frantz| When it comes to the world | Periwinkle
> >> (408)356-8506  | around us, is there any choice | 16345 Englewood Ave
> >> www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall | Los Gatos, CA 95032
> >> 
> >> __
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >> 
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to k...@sdellington.us
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Scott  K9MA
> > 
> > k...@sdellington.us
> > 
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> > 
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to jstengrev...@comcast.net
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to grazi...@roccon.com
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[dick]

There's a lot of automation.  

Here's one of the best in the world at ZF2MJ, running 20 and 15 meters 
simultaneously. It's kind of mind-boggling.

Dan (N6MJ) and Chris (K9LA) won WRTC in Boston, after placing quite high in 
earlier WRTC efforts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3ncFJZqkTA

73 de Dick, K6KR


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill Frantz
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2017 22:42
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

Under the rules, in the assisted categories, using decoders is legal. It is 
also legal, but perhaps unwise, to use the spotting network to "read" the call 
signs. Wiser is to verify a spotted call sign, which is a lot easier than to 
copy it cold. In the unassisted categories, all these techniques are illegal.

I think most stations were using a macro to send their report. 
Since the report in CQ WW DX is constant, setting up a macro is easy. Copying 
the report is a different matter, but I found the reports easier to copy than 
the calls, since the reports were all numbers (with some Ts, As, and Ns tossed 
in for brevity).

73 Bill AE6JV

On 11/26/17 at 9:21 PM, marvwhee...@nwlink.com wrote:

>I personally don't depend on the rig decoding but listening this 
>weekend let me know that either the big boys are using something to 
>decode station callsigns and are definite using an automated system to send 
>their report.
>Using the K3S cw speed option I saw several that read over 60 wpm. I 
>realize there are those that can copy that fast but not this old boy.


Bill Frantz|"Insofar as the propositions of mathematics 
refer to
408-356-8506   | reality, they are not certain; and insofar 
they are
www.pwpconsult.com | certain, they do not refer to reality.” 
-- Einstein

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message 
delivered to d...@elecraft.com

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[John Stengrevics]

I too have never been able to get the CW decoder to work well.  It only works 
if signals are super strong - precisely when I don’t need it.

Anybody have any suggestions?

John
WA1EAZ

> On Nov 26, 2017, at 9:28 PM, K9MA  wrote:
> 
> Perhaps my K3 has a problem, but I've never been able to get the CW decoder 
> to work very well.  (Nor the digital modes.)  Fortunately, I've been copying 
> CW the old-fashioned way for some 50 years, and the K3 otherwise works just 
> fine.
> 
> 73,
> Scott K9MA
> 
> 
> On 11/26/2017 19:32, Bill Frantz wrote:
>> In previous years, I used the K3's decoder and it worked very well. But, for 
>> this contest, I bit the bullet and said, "I'm going to decode the calls 
>> myself to improve my CW." I had a lot of fun doing so, although I had to 
>> skip several stations that were sending above 30 WPM.
>> 
>> A small suggestion to those who know CW. If you are calling CQ and getting 
>> no answers, like late in the contest, consider slowing down so the CW 
>> impaired, like me, have a chance of making the contact. It may improve your 
>> score.
>> 
>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>> 
>> On 11/26/17 at 4:09 PM, hk3j...@gmail.com (German Duran) wrote:
>> 
>>> Wonderful. I was doing the CQ WW CW contest and a lot of the contest I
>>> worked with a software to help decode the stations. In the last hours of
>>> the contest I decided to configure the decoder of my Elecraft K3s and
>>> started to decode the stations better than with any of the software that is
>>> in the market for this job. Congratulations to Elecraft for this marvel.
>>> Germán HK3J
>> -
>> Bill Frantz| When it comes to the world | Periwinkle
>> (408)356-8506  | around us, is there any choice | 16345 Englewood Ave
>> www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>> 
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to k...@sdellington.us
> 
> 
> -- 
> Scott  K9MA
> 
> k...@sdellington.us
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to jstengrev...@comcast.net

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Bill Frantz]

Under the rules, in the assisted categories, using decoders is 
legal. It is also legal, but perhaps unwise, to use the spotting 
network to "read" the call signs. Wiser is to verify a spotted 
call sign, which is a lot easier than to copy it cold. In the 
unassisted categories, all these techniques are illegal.


I think most stations were using a macro to send their report. 
Since the report in CQ WW DX is constant, setting up a macro is 
easy. Copying the report is a different matter, but I found the 
reports easier to copy than the calls, since the reports were 
all numbers (with some Ts, As, and Ns tossed in for brevity).


73 Bill AE6JV

On 11/26/17 at 9:21 PM, marvwhee...@nwlink.com wrote:


I personally don't depend on the rig decoding but listening this weekend let
me know that either the big boys are using something to decode station
callsigns and are definite using an automated system to send their report.
Using the K3S cw speed option I saw several that read over 60 wpm. I realize
there are those that can copy that fast but not this old boy.



Bill Frantz|"Insofar as the propositions of mathematics 
refer to
408-356-8506   | reality, they are not certain; and insofar 
they are
www.pwpconsult.com | certain, they do not refer to reality.” 
-- Einstein


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[marvwheeler]

I have found that backing off the RF gain a bit help the decoding of cw.

 

I personally don't depend on the rig decoding but listening this weekend let
me know that either the big boys are using something to decode station
callsigns and are definite using an automated system to send their report.
Using the K3S cw speed option I saw several that read over 60 wpm. I realize
there are those that can copy that fast but not this old boy.

 

 

 

> 

> Perhaps my K3 has a problem, but I've never been able to get the CW 

> decoder to work very well.

 

 

Never had a ton of luck with it either on my K3S.   Perhaps it is operator

error on my par if others can make it go.

 

73 de AI6KG

 

 

On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 6:28 PM, K9MA  > wrote:

 

> Perhaps my K3 has a problem, but I've never been able to get the CW 

> decoder to work very well.  (Nor the digital modes.)  Fortunately, 

> I've been copying CW the old-fashioned way for some 50 years, and the 

> K3 otherwise works just fine.

> 

> 73,

> Scott K9MA

 

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Christopher Hoover]

>
> Perhaps my K3 has a problem, but I've never been able to get the CW
> decoder to work very well.


Never had a ton of luck with it either on my K3S.   Perhaps it is operator
error on my par if others can make it go.

73 de AI6KG


On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 6:28 PM, K9MA  wrote:

> Perhaps my K3 has a problem, but I've never been able to get the CW
> decoder to work very well.  (Nor the digital modes.)  Fortunately, I've
> been copying CW the old-fashioned way for some 50 years, and the K3
> otherwise works just fine.
>
> 73,
> Scott K9MA
>
>
> On 11/26/2017 19:32, Bill Frantz wrote:
>
>> In previous years, I used the K3's decoder and it worked very well. But,
>> for this contest, I bit the bullet and said, "I'm going to decode the calls
>> myself to improve my CW." I had a lot of fun doing so, although I had to
>> skip several stations that were sending above 30 WPM.
>>
>> A small suggestion to those who know CW. If you are calling CQ and
>> getting no answers, like late in the contest, consider slowing down so the
>> CW impaired, like me, have a chance of making the contact. It may improve
>> your score.
>>
>> 73 Bill AE6JV
>>
>> On 11/26/17 at 4:09 PM, hk3j...@gmail.com (German Duran) wrote:
>>
>> Wonderful. I was doing the CQ WW CW contest and a lot of the contest I
>>> worked with a software to help decode the stations. In the last hours of
>>> the contest I decided to configure the decoder of my Elecraft K3s and
>>> started to decode the stations better than with any of the software that
>>> is
>>> in the market for this job. Congratulations to Elecraft for this marvel.
>>> Germán HK3J
>>>
>> -
>> Bill Frantz| When it comes to the world | Periwinkle
>> (408)356-8506  | around us, is there any choice | 16345 Englewood Ave
>> www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall | Los Gatos, CA 95032
>>
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to k...@sdellington.us
>>
>
>
> --
> Scott  K9MA
>
> k...@sdellington.us
>
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to c...@murgatroid.com
>
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Gary Smith]

For me... I can copy just fine (can always 
be better...) but it's getting it to the 
keyboard that is the problem. Have to hear 
it, then copy that to the keyboard and 
that takes the most time...

73,

Gary
KA1J
AKA Fumblefingers


> Kevin et al;
> 
> I agree, in fact I'd suppose as the CW speed the number of competent
> operators decreases proportionally.    Now I'm not saying "contest
> at 5 WPM" but certainly there are more that can copy 15 WPM than 50
> WPM.   Just sayin'..so for us slow folks and old
> folks...QRS.
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
> On 11/26/2017 8:38 PM, Kevin Stover, AC0H wrote:
> > I agree.
> >
> > I can do 30 wpm without getting uncomfortable but I have experienced
> > the "slowing down gets more contacts" phenomenon. Once in field day
> > with a bunch of CW hands who can all copy and send above 40+ wpm.
> > The one rule they had for field day was nobody sent faster that
> > 22-25 wpm. They won their section and were a top 10 US 1A station
> > almost every year. No problem holding a frequency.
> >
> > Same for Nov SS. Ripping along at 40wpm sure is neat and all but how
> > long does the contact take when you add time for 3 or 4 repeats?
> > Slow down to 22-25 wpm and get the contacts first time or spend time
> > repeating parts of the exchange then ultimately having to slow down
> > anyway.
> >
> > On 11/26/2017 7:32 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
> >> In previous years, I used the K3's decoder and it worked very well.
> >> But, for this contest, I bit the bullet and said, "I'm going to
> >> decode the calls myself to improve my CW." I had a lot of fun doing
> >> so, although I had to skip several stations that were sending above
> >> 30 WPM.
> >>
> >> A small suggestion to those who know CW. If you are calling CQ and
> >> getting no answers, like late in the contest, consider slowing down
> >> so the CW impaired, like me, have a chance of making the contact.
> >> It may improve your score.
> >>
> >> 73 Bill AE6JV
> >>
> >> On 11/26/17 at 4:09 PM, hk3j...@gmail.com (German Duran) wrote:
> >>
> >>> Wonderful. I was doing the CQ WW CW contest and a lot of the
> >>> contest I worked with a software to help decode the stations. In
> >>> the last hours of the contest I decided to configure the decoder
> >>> of my Elecraft K3s and started to decode the stations better than
> >>> with any of the software that is in the market for this job.
> >>> Congratulations to Elecraft for this marvel. Germán HK3J
> >> ---
> >> -- 
> >>
> >> Bill Frantz    | When it comes to the world |
> >> Periwinkle (408)356-8506  | around us, is there any choice
> >> | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa
> >> Randall | Los Gatos, CA 95032
> >>
> >> __
> >> Elecraft mailing list Home:
> >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> >> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
> >> mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to ksto...@ac0h.net
> >
> 
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to g...@ka1j.com



__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Kevin et al;

I agree, in fact I'd suppose as the CW speed the number of competent 
operators decreases proportionally.    Now I'm not saying "contest at 5 
WPM" but certainly there are more that can copy 15 WPM than 50 WPM.   
Just sayin'..so for us slow folks and old folks...QRS.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 11/26/2017 8:38 PM, Kevin Stover, AC0H wrote:

I agree.

I can do 30 wpm without getting uncomfortable but I have experienced 
the "slowing down gets more contacts" phenomenon. Once in field day 
with a bunch of CW hands who can all copy and send above 40+ wpm. The 
one rule they had for field day was nobody sent faster that 22-25 wpm. 
They won their section and were a top 10 US 1A station almost every 
year. No problem holding a frequency.


Same for Nov SS. Ripping along at 40wpm sure is neat and all but how 
long does the contact take when you add time for 3 or 4 repeats? Slow 
down to 22-25 wpm and get the contacts first time or spend time 
repeating parts of the exchange then ultimately having to slow down 
anyway.


On 11/26/2017 7:32 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
In previous years, I used the K3's decoder and it worked very well. 
But, for this contest, I bit the bullet and said, "I'm going to 
decode the calls myself to improve my CW." I had a lot of fun doing 
so, although I had to skip several stations that were sending above 
30 WPM.


A small suggestion to those who know CW. If you are calling CQ and 
getting no answers, like late in the contest, consider slowing down 
so the CW impaired, like me, have a chance of making the contact. It 
may improve your score.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 11/26/17 at 4:09 PM, hk3j...@gmail.com (German Duran) wrote:


Wonderful. I was doing the CQ WW CW contest and a lot of the contest I
worked with a software to help decode the stations. In the last 
hours of

the contest I decided to configure the decoder of my Elecraft K3s and
started to decode the stations better than with any of the software 
that is
in the market for this job. Congratulations to Elecraft for this 
marvel.

Germán HK3J
- 


Bill Frantz    | When it comes to the world | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | around us, is there any choice | 16345 Englewood 
Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall | Los Gatos, CA 
95032


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to ksto...@ac0h.net





__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Kevin Stover, AC0H]

I agree.

I can do 30 wpm without getting uncomfortable but I have experienced the 
"slowing down gets more contacts" phenomenon. Once in field day with a 
bunch of CW hands who can all copy and send above 40+ wpm. The one rule 
they had for field day was nobody sent faster that 22-25 wpm. They won 
their section and were a top 10 US 1A station almost every year. No 
problem holding a frequency.


Same for Nov SS. Ripping along at 40wpm sure is neat and all but how 
long does the contact take when you add time for 3 or 4 repeats? Slow 
down to 22-25 wpm and get the contacts first time or spend time 
repeating parts of the exchange then ultimately having to slow down anyway.


On 11/26/2017 7:32 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
In previous years, I used the K3's decoder and it worked very well. But, 
for this contest, I bit the bullet and said, "I'm going to decode the 
calls myself to improve my CW." I had a lot of fun doing so, although I 
had to skip several stations that were sending above 30 WPM.


A small suggestion to those who know CW. If you are calling CQ and 
getting no answers, like late in the contest, consider slowing down so 
the CW impaired, like me, have a chance of making the contact. It may 
improve your score.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 11/26/17 at 4:09 PM, hk3j...@gmail.com (German Duran) wrote:


Wonderful. I was doing the CQ WW CW contest and a lot of the contest I
worked with a software to help decode the stations. In the last hours of
the contest I decided to configure the decoder of my Elecraft K3s and
started to decode the stations better than with any of the software 
that is

in the market for this job. Congratulations to Elecraft for this marvel.
Germán HK3J

-
Bill Frantz    | When it comes to the world | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | around us, is there any choice | 16345 Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall | Los Gatos, CA 95032

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to ksto...@ac0h.net


--
R. Kevin StoverAC0H
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441
ARRL
__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[K9MA]

Perhaps my K3 has a problem, but I've never been able to get the CW 
decoder to work very well.  (Nor the digital modes.)  Fortunately, I've 
been copying CW the old-fashioned way for some 50 years, and the K3 
otherwise works just fine.


73,
Scott K9MA


On 11/26/2017 19:32, Bill Frantz wrote:
In previous years, I used the K3's decoder and it worked very well. 
But, for this contest, I bit the bullet and said, "I'm going to decode 
the calls myself to improve my CW." I had a lot of fun doing so, 
although I had to skip several stations that were sending above 30 WPM.


A small suggestion to those who know CW. If you are calling CQ and 
getting no answers, like late in the contest, consider slowing down so 
the CW impaired, like me, have a chance of making the contact. It may 
improve your score.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 11/26/17 at 4:09 PM, hk3j...@gmail.com (German Duran) wrote:


Wonderful. I was doing the CQ WW CW contest and a lot of the contest I
worked with a software to help decode the stations. In the last hours of
the contest I decided to configure the decoder of my Elecraft K3s and
started to decode the stations better than with any of the software 
that is

in the market for this job. Congratulations to Elecraft for this marvel.
Germán HK3J

-
Bill Frantz    | When it comes to the world | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | around us, is there any choice | 16345 Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall | Los Gatos, CA 95032

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to k...@sdellington.us



--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com

Re: [Elecraft] CW Contest and Elecraft K3s decoder

[Bill Frantz]

In previous years, I used the K3's decoder and it worked very 
well. But, for this contest, I bit the bullet and said, "I'm 
going to decode the calls myself to improve my CW." I had a lot 
of fun doing so, although I had to skip several stations that 
were sending above 30 WPM.


A small suggestion to those who know CW. If you are calling CQ 
and getting no answers, like late in the contest, consider 
slowing down so the CW impaired, like me, have a chance of 
making the contact. It may improve your score.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 11/26/17 at 4:09 PM, hk3j...@gmail.com (German Duran) wrote:


Wonderful. I was doing the CQ WW CW contest and a lot of the contest I
worked with a software to help decode the stations. In the last hours of
the contest I decided to configure the decoder of my Elecraft K3s and
started to decode the stations better than with any of the software that is
in the market for this job. Congratulations to Elecraft for this marvel.
Germán HK3J

-
Bill Frantz| When it comes to the world | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | around us, is there any choice | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | but to explore? - Lisa Randall | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


__
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com