Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Jim Brown]

On 7/9/2023 11:32 PM, dyno lab wrote:

However, a new K3s Retrofit RF power amplifier is coming on the market that 
will resolve this problem and it may be seen in my W7YNC Bio at QRZ.com


Engineering is NOT defined as producing an ideal product, but one with 
certain user objectives, one of which is operation from 13.8VDC, and in 
a compact package that can be carried on an airplane to a DX operation. 
The K3 solves the latter design objectives quite well; while it's IMD is 
not wonderful at 100W, it's pretty good at the 25-50W level need to 
drive most power amps, and the real enemy of two radios in close 
proximity on the same band, phase noise, is spectacularly good. What 
matters about IMD are clicks and splatter when the signal is loudest, 
usually when it is driving a legal limit amp.


It's a byproduct of my work in the highest levels of pro audio, where I 
learned not to make the lab measurements of a distortion, but to measure 
the practical effects of it, clicks and splatter. And modern spectrum 
analyzers, like the P3/SVGA and lots of SDRs with good software blow 
away the lab gear for these measurements by at least two orders of 
magnitude! The frequency resolution of my HP8590D is only 100 Hz, 
compared to the P3 at a few Hz and the P3SVGA 10x better! Yes, the P3 
can display only 80 dB of its 100 dB dynamic range on screen, but the 
bodies are buried in the range of 40-70 dB down!


The K3 is a spectacularly good neighbor on CW, thanks to the carefully 
shaped keying -- my neighbor K6XX and I, about 3 miles apart, can run 
legal limit to serious antennas and work within 500 Hz of each other 
when contesting. And thanks to the control of phase noise, our CQP team 
could run K3s with KPA500s on the same band with in-line dipoles and 
Yagis from 80-10M.


At home, I learned that could run two K3s and Ten Tec legal limit 
3CX800A7 amps on the SAME BAND, 20M and above, within 60 kHz of each 
other, feeding Yagis separated by 100 ft, colinear to each other, and 
not know the other transmitter was there!


There is FAR more to life than measurements of IMD test signals! A FAR 
better test of IMD is the measurement of the bandwidth of a signal using 
spectrum analysis capable of very narrow resolution bandwidth, like the 
P3 (a few Hz), or even better, the P3/SVGA (a few fractional Hz). 
Download and study

http://k9yc.com/P3_Spectrum_Measurements.pdf
and
http://k9yc.com/TXNoise.pdf

The first link shows measurements of my K3, pre-upgraded synths, driving 
a Ten Tec 425 (2 3CX800A7s), a KPA500, and another amp I sold as soon as 
I realized how dirty it was compared to the others. The second link is 
my analysis data ARRL Labs sent me in electronic form of their 
measurements of more than a dozen rigs, plotting all on the same graph 
making comparison jump out at you! It was motivated by complaints by 
WRTC participants of trash competitors in the same group of sites were 
generating with rigs like the FTDX1000.


BTW -- after I'd done the work for the first link, Warren Pratt, NR0V, 
inventor of Pure Signal and long-time running partner of Rob Sherwood, 
NC0B, demonstrated to me that the RX in the $900 ANAN transceiver could 
display fractional Hz resolution with 120 dB dynamic range with his 
software (for ANAN) running the radio. I bought one to use in my 
measurement lab! I've never used it as a transceiver.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[dyno lab]

Dave, et al,

The K3s is one of several 1.8 to 54MHz transceivers that has suffered the 
consequences of using VMOS FETs in their final amplifiers.
And some, even if tuned as well as possible to minimize splatter, will not be 
considered friendly neighbors on the congested bands of today.

However, a new K3s Retrofit RF power amplifier is coming on the market that 
will resolve this problem and it may be seen in my W7YNC Bio at QRZ.com

73,
Hal
W7YNC



> On 07/08/2023 7:39 AM PDT Dave  wrote:
> 
>  
> Almost any rig can turn from “one of the best” to “one of the worst” if it is 
> misadjusted. 
> 
> We as hams should be willing to provide constructive criticism to those with 
> issues and more importantly be willing to receive constructive criticism. 
> 
> 73
> Dave wo2x
> 
> Sent from my waxed string and tin cans. 
> 
> > On Jul 8, 2023, at 10:24 AM, Andy Durbin  wrote:
> > 
> > Just a few comments on dirty signals and the rigs that can, if badly 
> > adjusted, produce them.
> > 
> > I've been using a Kenwood TS-590S for about 10 years.  I was asked to give 
> > a couple of digital modes presentations to the local club .  I was seeing 
> > so many foul JT65, and now FT8 signals, that I wanted to use my TS-590S to 
> > produce bad signal examples and show the operator errors that caused them.  
> > I tried everything I knew and could not make my TS-590 produce anything but 
> > a clean signal.  I had to resort to my library of screen captures of other 
> > station's signals for my presentation.
> > 
> > On the other hand, one of the worst FT8 signals I ever saw was transmitted 
> > by a very experienced local operator using a K3.  He fixed the problem as 
> > soon as he saw my screen shots.
> > 
> > Just because someone told you the K3 is the best rig ever made does not 
> > mean it can't produce some really nasty signals!
> > 
> > Andy, k3wyc
> > 
> > 
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Fred Jensen]

Which begs the question(s), "Why would one engineer a radio that can be 
'misadjusted' to create awful signals?"  Adjustable keying rise/fall 
times comes to mind first I guess since there is one optimal shape and 
rise/fall times.  All others are sub-optimal.  "I want to generate 
clicks today so I'll just crank this knob down to 0 and make square 
waves today."  Harks back to This is Spinal Tap.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

Dave wrote on 7/8/2023 7:39 AM:

Almost any rig can turn from “one of the best” to “one of the worst” if it is 
misadjusted.

We as hams should be willing to provide constructive criticism to those with 
issues and more importantly be willing to receive constructive criticism.

73
Dave wo2x

Sent from my waxed string and tin cans.


On Jul 8, 2023, at 10:24 AM, Andy Durbin  wrote:

Just a few comments on dirty signals and the rigs that can, if badly adjusted, 
produce them.

I've been using a Kenwood TS-590S for about 10 years.  I was asked to give a 
couple of digital modes presentations to the local club .  I was seeing so many 
foul JT65, and now FT8 signals, that I wanted to use my TS-590S to produce bad 
signal examples and show the operator errors that caused them.  I tried 
everything I knew and could not make my TS-590 produce anything but a clean 
signal.  I had to resort to my library of screen captures of other station's 
signals for my presentation.

On the other hand, one of the worst FT8 signals I ever saw was transmitted by a 
very experienced local operator using a K3.  He fixed the problem as soon as he 
saw my screen shots.

Just because someone told you the K3 is the best rig ever made does not mean it 
can't produce some really nasty signals!

Andy, k3wyc





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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[David Gilbert]

I don't have a TS-590S but I'm sure somebody who has one can tell you 
how.   Crank up the audio drive from Windows (or whatever), run the 
TS-590S in USB mode and crank up the audio gain and compression, etc.  
It simply doesn't make sense that you can't overdrive a TS-590S.


Dave  AB7E


On 7/8/2023 8:18 AM, Andy Durbin wrote:

"but I guarantee that it can be easily done with a TS-590S as well.  You just didn't 
do it right."

Ok, please tell me how to do that.  Specific settings please from a test that 
you actually ran with a TS-590S.

My tests had all audio drive sliders to max and ALC meter hard on the stop.  
Clean signal for FT8 and PSK.  I didn't believe that was possible until I ran 
the tests.


Andy, k3wyc




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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Jim Clymer]

On Sat, Jul 8, 2023, 10:23 AM Andy Durbin  wrote:

>
> On the other hand, one of the worst FT8 signals I ever saw was transmitted
> by a very experienced local operator using a K3.
>

>>> A very experienced operator who apparently hadn't read the manual. -:)
Jim - WS6X

>
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Andy Durbin]

"but I guarantee that it can be easily done with a TS-590S as well.  You just 
didn't do it right."

Ok, please tell me how to do that.  Specific settings please from a test that 
you actually ran with a TS-590S.

My tests had all audio drive sliders to max and ALC meter hard on the stop.  
Clean signal for FT8 and PSK.  I didn't believe that was possible until I ran 
the tests.


Andy, k3wyc




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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[David Gilbert]

Of course a K3 can generate bad FT8 signals if you drive the audio hard 
enough, but I guarantee that it can be easily done with a TS-590S as 
well.  You just didn't do it right.


Dave   AB7E


On 7/8/2023 7:22 AM, Andy Durbin wrote:

Just a few comments on dirty signals and the rigs that can, if badly adjusted, 
produce them.

I've been using a Kenwood TS-590S for about 10 years.  I was asked to give a 
couple of digital modes presentations to the local club .  I was seeing so many 
foul JT65, and now FT8 signals, that I wanted to use my TS-590S to produce bad 
signal examples and show the operator errors that caused them.  I tried 
everything I knew and could not make my TS-590 produce anything but a clean 
signal.  I had to resort to my library of screen captures of other station's 
signals for my presentation.

On the other hand, one of the worst FT8 signals I ever saw was transmitted by a 
very experienced local operator using a K3.  He fixed the problem as soon as he 
saw my screen shots.

Just because someone told you the K3 is the best rig ever made does not mean it 
can't produce some really nasty signals!

Andy, k3wyc


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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Dave]

Almost any rig can turn from “one of the best” to “one of the worst” if it is 
misadjusted. 

We as hams should be willing to provide constructive criticism to those with 
issues and more importantly be willing to receive constructive criticism. 

73
Dave wo2x

Sent from my waxed string and tin cans. 

> On Jul 8, 2023, at 10:24 AM, Andy Durbin  wrote:
> 
> Just a few comments on dirty signals and the rigs that can, if badly 
> adjusted, produce them.
> 
> I've been using a Kenwood TS-590S for about 10 years.  I was asked to give a 
> couple of digital modes presentations to the local club .  I was seeing so 
> many foul JT65, and now FT8 signals, that I wanted to use my TS-590S to 
> produce bad signal examples and show the operator errors that caused them.  I 
> tried everything I knew and could not make my TS-590 produce anything but a 
> clean signal.  I had to resort to my library of screen captures of other 
> station's signals for my presentation.
> 
> On the other hand, one of the worst FT8 signals I ever saw was transmitted by 
> a very experienced local operator using a K3.  He fixed the problem as soon 
> as he saw my screen shots.
> 
> Just because someone told you the K3 is the best rig ever made does not mean 
> it can't produce some really nasty signals!
> 
> Andy, k3wyc
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Steve L]

Yes, as I understood it, the Icom rise time default is a BAD choice, but recent 
(e.g. IC7300 and others) radios permitted changing this to a better value, 
although still behind the cleaner output of Elecraft & Kenwood.

The other interesting part of the discussion was the use of “pre distortion”.  
Again I read this as a way for the exciting transmitter to compensate for 
non-linearity (and resulting dirty emissions) introduced by a modern 
semiconductor based “linear” amplifier (one place where tubes excel).

All new and interesting stuff to me - and apparently the driving force behind 
the ARRL “Clean Signal Initiative” to both define better standards, then rate 
transmitters in ARRL testing against these standards.  And of course, 
encourage/coerce manufacturers to clean up their outputs!

Steve

> On Jul 1, 2023, at 3:33 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On 7/1/2023 10:34 AM, Steve L wrote:
>> The IC7300 was among the better commercial transceivers in terms of spurious 
>> emissions, clicks, splatter, etc. It wasn’t at the top of the list (the K3s 
>> is however), but was in the “better” category. However, Rob recommended a 
>> change in the CW signal rise time to no less than 6 milliseconds - I forget 
>> which menu item it was - but he criticized Icom specifically for a default 
>> setting that induced key clicks.
> 
> ICOM rigs are NOT among the cleaner ones -- that spot falls to Kenwood, which 
> is second to Elecraft (and, I suspect, Flex 6000 series, which I haven't 
> measured).
> 
> Yes, adjustable rise time is a REALLY bad idea, which K6XX pointed out in 
> 2013, and which I measured on the air for K6XX's talk, in a neighbor's ICOM 
> rig. Slower is better, but Elecraft's is best by far, carefully shaped keying 
> waveform.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Jim Brown]

This is typical of what I see anytime I tune the phone bands from Yaesu 
rigs, except that the dynamic range my K4D is far better adjusted. I've 
been posting about this for a couple of years now. Around that time, 
W4TV had posted general comments about how it was happening.


73, Jim K9YC

On 7/1/2023 6:44 AM, Wes wrote:
How about publicly shaming the guy whose signal is occupying the band in 
this photo?  Or is that receiver overload?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wJrLrryYkPrh7t1C8



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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Jim Brown]

On 7/1/2023 10:34 AM, Steve L wrote:

The IC7300 was among the better commercial transceivers in terms of spurious 
emissions, clicks, splatter, etc. It wasn’t at the top of the list (the K3s is 
however), but was in the “better” category. However, Rob recommended a change 
in the CW signal rise time to no less than 6 milliseconds - I forget which menu 
item it was - but he criticized Icom specifically for a default setting that 
induced key clicks.


ICOM rigs are NOT among the cleaner ones -- that spot falls to Kenwood, 
which is second to Elecraft (and, I suspect, Flex 6000 series, which I 
haven't measured).


Yes, adjustable rise time is a REALLY bad idea, which K6XX pointed out 
in 2013, and which I measured on the air for K6XX's talk, in a 
neighbor's ICOM rig. Slower is better, but Elecraft's is best by far, 
carefully shaped keying waveform.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Fred Jensen]

There are some things in a transmitter that just should never be 
adjustable. There is an optimum rise time and waveshape for minimizing 
clicks.  It is what it is, it's the best you can get, and there is no 
reason whatsoever to change it.


Nearly a lifetime ago at a college ham station, there was a very large 
bright red button on the amplifier rack labeled "Do Not Press."  Most 
every visitor did and discovered that nothing happened ... until they 
let go ... at which point a loud fire bell sounded.  It could be 
silenced by pressing and holding the button.


Give someone a knob and they will turn it.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

Steve L wrote on 7/1/2023 10:34 AM:

George,
The IC7300 was among the better commercial transceivers in terms of spurious 
emissions, clicks, splatter, etc. It wasn’t at the top of the list (the K3s is 
however), but was in the “better” category. However, Rob recommended a change 
in the CW signal rise time to no less than 6 milliseconds - I forget which menu 
item it was - but he criticized Icom specifically for a default setting that 
induced key clicks.

Take a look at this presentation - while it is titled “Receiver Performance 
What is the Limit Today” he mixes discussion on transmit composite noise with 
receiver performance.  It was really eye opening for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNh0wP9PlsM

There are others on line as well.
Steve
AA8AF


On Jul 1, 2023, at 12:06 PM, George Thornton  
wrote:

I think this was an Icom 7300 but I am not sure.

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Steve L
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2023 8:47 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

I was wondering too about the huge signal in the center of the waterfall…. 
Hopefully, the ARRL “Clean Signal Initiative” will help encourage manufacturers 
to clean up these messy transceivers!

I recently discovered several presentations by Rob Sherwood - famous for his 
receiver testing.  I was fortunate to get to meet him at Hamvention this year 
and thanked him for his work.  His new(?) message:  CLEAN UP THE DIRTY 
TRANSMITTERS.  And he calls out specific models!  BTW, Elecraft was NOT on the 
lists, but it is surprising which ‘high end’ transceivers were.  It’s worth 
reviewing his presentations on the subject - and it kept me from a bad upgrade!

Steve
AA8AF





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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Jim Brown]

On 7/1/2023 8:47 AM, Steve L wrote:

I recently discovered several presentations by Rob Sherwood - famous for his 
receiver testing.  I was fortunate to get to meet him at Hamvention this year 
and thanked him for his work.  His new(?) message:  CLEAN UP THE DIRTY 
TRANSMITTERS.  And he calls out specific models!  BTW, Elecraft was NOT on the 
lists, but it is surprising which ‘high end’ transceivers were.  It’s worth 
reviewing his presentations on the subject - and it kept me from a bad upgrade!


It's good to see that Rob has finally started paying attention to dirty 
transmit, but I started working on this ten years ago. My first 
publication was jointly with K6XX, the second an analysis of ARRL Labs 
data that they sent me in electronic form. The third consists of 
measurements in my own lab, using the P3/SVGA in my second radio.


http://k9yc.com/K6XXAmpTalk.pdf (Published Nov 2013)
http://k9yc.com/TXNoise.pdf (published July 2014)
http://k9yc.com/P3_Spectrum_Measurements.pdf (published March 2015)

When I leaked an early version of the ARRL data analysis to someone I 
strongly suspected would make sure that Yaesu saw it, they issued a 
firmware update that brought their flagship radio, the FTDX5000 from 
absolute worst to roughly even with the second worst, ICOM 7800. The 
March 2015 shows before and after measurements of a neighbor's Yaesu rig.


While Rob is a great engineer and has done a lot to improve our 
receivers, there are some things he doesn't understand, and refuses to 
listen to what I've told him to fill in his gaps -- that audio is 
dynamic, and that traditional RF test signals are not the way to test 
SSB rigs. Rather pink noise, which has been used in pro audio for more 
than 40 years, is a far better test signal to expose defects in rigs, an 
example of which is, again, Yaesu!


73, Jim K9YC

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Steve L]

George,
The IC7300 was among the better commercial transceivers in terms of spurious 
emissions, clicks, splatter, etc. It wasn’t at the top of the list (the K3s is 
however), but was in the “better” category. However, Rob recommended a change 
in the CW signal rise time to no less than 6 milliseconds - I forget which menu 
item it was - but he criticized Icom specifically for a default setting that 
induced key clicks.

Take a look at this presentation - while it is titled “Receiver Performance 
What is the Limit Today” he mixes discussion on transmit composite noise with 
receiver performance.  It was really eye opening for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNh0wP9PlsM

There are others on line as well.
Steve
AA8AF

> On Jul 1, 2023, at 12:06 PM, George Thornton 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think this was an Icom 7300 but I am not sure.  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
> Behalf Of Steve L
> Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2023 8:47 AM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation
> 
> I was wondering too about the huge signal in the center of the waterfall…. 
> Hopefully, the ARRL “Clean Signal Initiative” will help encourage 
> manufacturers to clean up these messy transceivers!
> 
> I recently discovered several presentations by Rob Sherwood - famous for his 
> receiver testing.  I was fortunate to get to meet him at Hamvention this year 
> and thanked him for his work.  His new(?) message:  CLEAN UP THE DIRTY 
> TRANSMITTERS.  And he calls out specific models!  BTW, Elecraft was NOT on 
> the lists, but it is surprising which ‘high end’ transceivers were.  It’s 
> worth reviewing his presentations on the subject - and it kept me from a bad 
> upgrade!
> 
> Steve
> AA8AF
> 
>> On Jul 1, 2023, at 9:44 AM, Wes  wrote:
>> 
>> How about publicly shaming the guy whose signal is occupying the band in 
>> this photo?  Or is that receiver overload?
>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/wJrLrryYkPrh7t1C8
>> 
>> Wes  N7WS
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Eric Fitzgerald]

Not at all.  My understanding is that the receiving station was in the 
near field of the transmitting station.  The shape of the signal looks 
consistent with the receiver being overloaded.  I suspect at any 
distance the signal is just fine.  But damnit Jim, I'm a graphic artist 
not an electrical engineer. ;-)


On 7/1/23 9:09 AM, Wes wrote:

I hope you're trying to be funny.

On 7/1/2023 8:18 AM, Eric Fitzgerald wrote:

Yes, it looks like a strong, clean signal to me.


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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[jerry]

Many years ago, my contribution to a club Field Day effort was a set of 
single band low pass filters.
Each one in a minibox with an SO-239 at each end. They seemed to help.  
Not for running CW & SSB

on the same band, though.

- Jerry, KF6VB


 -

On 2023-07-01 08:13, Wes wrote:

Retire that radio, operator or both.


On 7/1/2023 7:33 AM, George Thornton wrote:
Our group was a 6A.  The signal was from the 20 meter voice station in 
our group.  This station in the picture was GOTA operating under a 
separate call sign.


The 20 meter voice station showed up large on our waterfall, but we 
kept elsewhere on the band and no problems.


There was another station of ours operating CW on 20 meters, separated 
by about 400 ft. in elevation.  We had no problems with them.


Interestingly, at one point the 20 meter station chair contacted me 
and said he was being desensed by us and the 20 meter CW station.  I 
think they were using an Icom rig.


The conclusion, the K4 is just as well protected from adjacent station 
interference as the K3. Elecraft is the rig of choice in a 
multi-station operation.






-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
 On Behalf Of Wes

Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2023 6:45 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

How about publicly shaming the guy whose signal is occupying the band 
in this photo?  Or is that receiver overload?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wJrLrryYkPrh7t1C8

Wes  N7WS

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Wes]

I hope you're trying to be funny.

On 7/1/2023 8:18 AM, Eric Fitzgerald wrote:

Yes, it looks like a strong, clean signal to me.


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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[George Thornton]

I think this was an Icom 7300 but I am not sure.  

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Steve L
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2023 8:47 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

I was wondering too about the huge signal in the center of the waterfall…. 
Hopefully, the ARRL “Clean Signal Initiative” will help encourage manufacturers 
to clean up these messy transceivers!

I recently discovered several presentations by Rob Sherwood - famous for his 
receiver testing.  I was fortunate to get to meet him at Hamvention this year 
and thanked him for his work.  His new(?) message:  CLEAN UP THE DIRTY 
TRANSMITTERS.  And he calls out specific models!  BTW, Elecraft was NOT on the 
lists, but it is surprising which ‘high end’ transceivers were.  It’s worth 
reviewing his presentations on the subject - and it kept me from a bad upgrade!

Steve
AA8AF

> On Jul 1, 2023, at 9:44 AM, Wes  wrote:
> 
> How about publicly shaming the guy whose signal is occupying the band in this 
> photo?  Or is that receiver overload?
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/wJrLrryYkPrh7t1C8
> 
> Wes  N7WS
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Steve L]

I was wondering too about the huge signal in the center of the waterfall…. 
Hopefully, the ARRL “Clean Signal Initiative” will help encourage manufacturers 
to clean up these messy transceivers!

I recently discovered several presentations by Rob Sherwood - famous for his 
receiver testing.  I was fortunate to get to meet him at Hamvention this year 
and thanked him for his work.  His new(?) message:  CLEAN UP THE DIRTY 
TRANSMITTERS.  And he calls out specific models!  BTW, Elecraft was NOT on the 
lists, but it is surprising which ‘high end’ transceivers were.  It’s worth 
reviewing his presentations on the subject - and it kept me from a bad upgrade!

Steve
AA8AF

> On Jul 1, 2023, at 9:44 AM, Wes  wrote:
> 
> How about publicly shaming the guy whose signal is occupying the band in this 
> photo?  Or is that receiver overload?
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/wJrLrryYkPrh7t1C8
> 
> Wes  N7WS
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Eric Fitzgerald]

Yes, it looks like a strong, clean signal to me.  Funny how in the so 
called "weak signal" modes people will say that stations are "running 
too much power" but the never say they are "running too much antenna." ;-)


73 Eric KG6MZS

On 7/1/23 7:33 AM, George Thornton wrote:

The 20 meter voice station showed up large on our waterfall, but we kept 
elsewhere on the band and no problems.

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Wes]

Retire that radio, operator or both.


On 7/1/2023 7:33 AM, George Thornton wrote:

Our group was a 6A.  The signal was from the 20 meter voice station in our 
group.  This station in the picture was GOTA operating under a separate call 
sign.

The 20 meter voice station showed up large on our waterfall, but we kept 
elsewhere on the band and no problems.

There was another station of ours operating CW on 20 meters, separated by about 
400 ft. in elevation.  We had no problems with them.

Interestingly, at one point the 20 meter station chair contacted me and said he 
was being desensed by us and the 20 meter CW station.  I think they were using 
an Icom rig.

The conclusion, the K4 is just as well protected from adjacent station 
interference as the K3. Elecraft is the rig of choice in a multi-station 
operation.





-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Wes
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2023 6:45 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

How about publicly shaming the guy whose signal is occupying the band in this 
photo?  Or is that receiver overload?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wJrLrryYkPrh7t1C8

Wes  N7WS

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[George Thornton]

Our group was a 6A.  The signal was from the 20 meter voice station in our 
group.  This station in the picture was GOTA operating under a separate call 
sign.

The 20 meter voice station showed up large on our waterfall, but we kept 
elsewhere on the band and no problems.  

There was another station of ours operating CW on 20 meters, separated by about 
400 ft. in elevation.  We had no problems with them.

Interestingly, at one point the 20 meter station chair contacted me and said he 
was being desensed by us and the 20 meter CW station.  I think they were using 
an Icom rig.

The conclusion, the K4 is just as well protected from adjacent station 
interference as the K3. Elecraft is the rig of choice in a multi-station 
operation.





-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Wes
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2023 6:45 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

How about publicly shaming the guy whose signal is occupying the band in this 
photo?  Or is that receiver overload?
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/wJrLrryYkPrh7t1C8

Wes  N7WS

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Wes]

How about publicly shaming the guy whose signal is occupying the band in this 
photo?  Or is that receiver overload?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wJrLrryYkPrh7t1C8


Wes  N7WS

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[George Thornton]

This was my station.  

I appreciate the suggestion and will see what we can do next year to increase 
the Man-Cave effect.

Thanks for producing such a quality rig.  It was a joy to use and was very 
popular with our GOTA operators.  



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Wayne Burdick
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2023 3:45 PM
To: Michael Dinkelman 
Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

Great photos, Mike.

Half a dozen screens that size, plus some duct tape, would make a sturdy 
man-cave.

Wayne



> On Jun 30, 2023, at 3:14 PM, Michael Dinkelman  wrote:
> 
> K4D in operation at the Mike & Key GOTA station
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/q9T96tUYEwVQhtaq9
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/KV3ChVQ7JJSa8vsf9
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/wJrLrryYkPrh7t1C8
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/30/2023 12:40 PM, Dave New, N8SBE wrote:
>> Eric,
>> 
>> I promised Margaret some 'in action' K4D Field Day pictures.  I haven't 
>> forgotten, just been very busy in the aftermath of our 4A Field Day effort 
>> this year so far.
>> 
>> We've tried running 'cheap' GOTA stations over the previous few years, and 
>> except for a Kenwood TS-590S, everything else we've tried in the $1K-2K 
>> price category (or below) suffered badly from the other stations we were 
>> running at our FD site.  An ICOM IC-7300 last year and an IC-7610 
>> (surprisingly) this year both suffered from frontend overload.
>> 
>> Considering the typical experience level of GOTA operators, trying to copy 
>> SSB when is it being interrupted continuously by the nearby CW station is 
>> very frustrating, and certainly not the kind of experience we'd like to give 
>> our GOTA station visitors.
>> 
>> This year, after trying the IC-7610, we pulled it and subbed in my K3s/P3 
>> that I had been holding in reserve in case my K4D didn't hold up.  I'm happy 
>> to report my K4D ran with flying colors as our multi-band CW station (80M at 
>> night, 20M-10M during the day).
>> 
>> We also ran two other K3/P3 stations (with upgraded LOs, etc), one on 40M 
>> CW, and the other on 40M SSB, and the last station ran multi-band SSB and 
>> FT8 digital and was a Yaesu FTdx101d (superhet architecture with 'vctune' 
>> frontend).  I did notice a slight increase in my noise floor on my K4D when 
>> the Yaesu was running FT8 on the same band, but it really didn't effect our 
>> operation. Considering that 20M CW was on about 14.030 and FT8 on 14.074, we 
>> were relatively close to each other, but operated peacefully with out 
>> interference.
>> 
>> My experience with K3's running 2.8 kHz or narrower roofing filters, we 
>> could get within 10-20 kHz of another station before we noticed any 
>> interference, and that was mainly due to the Tx IMD of the other stations.  
>> The K4D, without K4HD roof filters, seemed to tolerate getting within about 
>> 20 kHz before noticeable interference.  Ditto for the Yaesu with it's 
>> roofing filter and 'vctune' technology.
>> 
>> We topped 2000 contacts this year, with the CW stations making the majority 
>> of the contacts.  We have some very good CW operators in the club, and they 
>> are 'QSO machines' on the Elecraft radios.
>> 
>> 73,
>> -- Dave, N8SBE
>> 
>> On 2023-06-26 10:59, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>>> Thanks for your comments, Eric.
>>> 
>>> Note that the K4 shares the same pedigree, and weighs only 2 pounds more, 
>>> for the same reasons.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Wayne
>>> N6KR
>>> 2A SCV



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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Wayne Burdick]

Great photos, Mike.

Half a dozen screens that size, plus some duct tape, would make a sturdy 
man-cave.

Wayne



> On Jun 30, 2023, at 3:14 PM, Michael Dinkelman  wrote:
> 
> K4D in operation at the Mike & Key GOTA station
> 
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/q9T96tUYEwVQhtaq9
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/KV3ChVQ7JJSa8vsf9
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/wJrLrryYkPrh7t1C8
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/30/2023 12:40 PM, Dave New, N8SBE wrote:
>> Eric,
>> 
>> I promised Margaret some 'in action' K4D Field Day pictures.  I haven't 
>> forgotten, just been very busy in the aftermath of our 4A Field Day effort 
>> this year so far.
>> 
>> We've tried running 'cheap' GOTA stations over the previous few years, and 
>> except for a Kenwood TS-590S, everything else we've tried in the $1K-2K 
>> price category (or below) suffered badly from the other stations we were 
>> running at our FD site.  An ICOM IC-7300 last year and an IC-7610 
>> (surprisingly) this year both suffered from frontend overload.
>> 
>> Considering the typical experience level of GOTA operators, trying to copy 
>> SSB when is it being interrupted continuously by the nearby CW station is 
>> very frustrating, and certainly not the kind of experience we'd like to give 
>> our GOTA station visitors.
>> 
>> This year, after trying the IC-7610, we pulled it and subbed in my K3s/P3 
>> that I had been holding in reserve in case my K4D didn't hold up.  I'm happy 
>> to report my K4D ran with flying colors as our multi-band CW station (80M at 
>> night, 20M-10M during the day).
>> 
>> We also ran two other K3/P3 stations (with upgraded LOs, etc), one on 40M 
>> CW, and the other on 40M SSB, and the last station ran multi-band SSB and 
>> FT8 digital and was a Yaesu FTdx101d (superhet architecture with 'vctune' 
>> frontend).  I did notice a slight increase in my noise floor on my K4D when 
>> the Yaesu was running FT8 on the same band, but it really didn't effect our 
>> operation. Considering that 20M CW was on about 14.030 and FT8 on 14.074, we 
>> were relatively close to each other, but operated peacefully with out 
>> interference.
>> 
>> My experience with K3's running 2.8 kHz or narrower roofing filters, we 
>> could get within 10-20 kHz of another station before we noticed any 
>> interference, and that was mainly due to the Tx IMD of the other stations.  
>> The K4D, without K4HD roof filters, seemed to tolerate getting within about 
>> 20 kHz before noticeable interference.  Ditto for the Yaesu with it's 
>> roofing filter and 'vctune' technology.
>> 
>> We topped 2000 contacts this year, with the CW stations making the majority 
>> of the contacts.  We have some very good CW operators in the club, and they 
>> are 'QSO machines' on the Elecraft radios.
>> 
>> 73,
>> -- Dave, N8SBE
>> 
>> On 2023-06-26 10:59, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>>> Thanks for your comments, Eric.
>>> 
>>> Note that the K4 shares the same pedigree, and weighs only 2 pounds more, 
>>> for the same reasons.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Wayne
>>> N6KR
>>> 2A SCV



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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Michael Dinkelman]

K4D in operation at the Mike & Key GOTA station

https://photos.app.goo.gl/q9T96tUYEwVQhtaq9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/KV3ChVQ7JJSa8vsf9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wJrLrryYkPrh7t1C8



On 6/30/2023 12:40 PM, Dave New, N8SBE wrote:

Eric,

I promised Margaret some 'in action' K4D Field Day pictures.  I 
haven't forgotten, just been very busy in the aftermath of our 4A 
Field Day effort this year so far.


We've tried running 'cheap' GOTA stations over the previous few years, 
and except for a Kenwood TS-590S, everything else we've tried in the 
$1K-2K price category (or below) suffered badly from the other 
stations we were running at our FD site.  An ICOM IC-7300 last year 
and an IC-7610 (surprisingly) this year both suffered from frontend 
overload.


Considering the typical experience level of GOTA operators, trying to 
copy SSB when is it being interrupted continuously by the nearby CW 
station is very frustrating, and certainly not the kind of experience 
we'd like to give our GOTA station visitors.


This year, after trying the IC-7610, we pulled it and subbed in my 
K3s/P3 that I had been holding in reserve in case my K4D didn't hold 
up.  I'm happy to report my K4D ran with flying colors as our 
multi-band CW station (80M at night, 20M-10M during the day).


We also ran two other K3/P3 stations (with upgraded LOs, etc), one on 
40M CW, and the other on 40M SSB, and the last station ran multi-band 
SSB and FT8 digital and was a Yaesu FTdx101d (superhet architecture 
with 'vctune' frontend).  I did notice a slight increase in my noise 
floor on my K4D when the Yaesu was running FT8 on the same band, but 
it really didn't effect our operation. Considering that 20M CW was on 
about 14.030 and FT8 on 14.074, we were relatively close to each 
other, but operated peacefully with out interference.


My experience with K3's running 2.8 kHz or narrower roofing filters, 
we could get within 10-20 kHz of another station before we noticed any 
interference, and that was mainly due to the Tx IMD of the other 
stations.  The K4D, without K4HD roof filters, seemed to tolerate 
getting within about 20 kHz before noticeable interference.  Ditto for 
the Yaesu with it's roofing filter and 'vctune' technology.


We topped 2000 contacts this year, with the CW stations making the 
majority of the contacts.  We have some very good CW operators in the 
club, and they are 'QSO machines' on the Elecraft radios.


73,
-- Dave, N8SBE

On 2023-06-26 10:59, Wayne Burdick wrote:

Thanks for your comments, Eric.

Note that the K4 shares the same pedigree, and weighs only 2 pounds 
more, for the same reasons.


73,
Wayne
N6KR
2A SCV



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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Dave New, N8SBE]

Eric,

I promised Margaret some 'in action' K4D Field Day pictures.  I haven't 
forgotten, just been very busy in the aftermath of our 4A Field Day 
effort this year so far.


We've tried running 'cheap' GOTA stations over the previous few years, 
and except for a Kenwood TS-590S, everything else we've tried in the 
$1K-2K price category (or below) suffered badly from the other stations 
we were running at our FD site.  An ICOM IC-7300 last year and an 
IC-7610 (surprisingly) this year both suffered from frontend overload.


Considering the typical experience level of GOTA operators, trying to 
copy SSB when is it being interrupted continuously by the nearby CW 
station is very frustrating, and certainly not the kind of experience 
we'd like to give our GOTA station visitors.


This year, after trying the IC-7610, we pulled it and subbed in my 
K3s/P3 that I had been holding in reserve in case my K4D didn't hold up. 
 I'm happy to report my K4D ran with flying colors as our multi-band CW 
station (80M at night, 20M-10M during the day).


We also ran two other K3/P3 stations (with upgraded LOs, etc), one on 
40M CW, and the other on 40M SSB, and the last station ran multi-band 
SSB and FT8 digital and was a Yaesu FTdx101d (superhet architecture with 
'vctune' frontend).  I did notice a slight increase in my noise floor on 
my K4D when the Yaesu was running FT8 on the same band, but it really 
didn't effect our operation.  Considering that 20M CW was on about 
14.030 and FT8 on 14.074, we were relatively close to each other, but 
operated peacefully with out interference.


My experience with K3's running 2.8 kHz or narrower roofing filters, we 
could get within 10-20 kHz of another station before we noticed any 
interference, and that was mainly due to the Tx IMD of the other 
stations.  The K4D, without K4HD roof filters, seemed to tolerate 
getting within about 20 kHz before noticeable interference.  Ditto for 
the Yaesu with it's roofing filter and 'vctune' technology.


We topped 2000 contacts this year, with the CW stations making the 
majority of the contacts.  We have some very good CW operators in the 
club, and they are 'QSO machines' on the Elecraft radios.


73,
-- Dave, N8SBE

On 2023-06-26 10:59, Wayne Burdick wrote:

Thanks for your comments, Eric.

Note that the K4 shares the same pedigree, and weighs only 2 pounds 
more, for the same reasons.


73,
Wayne
N6KR
2A SCV



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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Wes]

Thanks,

I just extracted that period from my log (DXBase) to take another look after all 
of these years.  I operated only 20-meter SSB and took a break from 0718Z to 
1347Z.  There were a lot of two QSO/minutes and some three QSOs/min.  So it's 
more like 88 Qs/hr :-)


This predates my K3, so I was using a TS-870 and HB 3-el Yagi@45 feet.  
Obviously the band was in good shape.


On 6/26/2023 7:43 PM, Al Lorona wrote:

Wow. I can't even imagine working 1532 contacts in 24 hours. If, in fact, you 
stayed awake for 24 hours straight, that would have meant you maintained a 64 Q 
per hour rate for the duration. That's an incredible run for *any* contest. 
Congratulations, sir!


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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[email]

there IS a 100 W category.  500 W max for high power (this year).  last 
year ALL limited to 100W


73, steve WB3LGC

On 6/26/23 10:08 PM, jerry wrote:


*** Didn't they make a rule this year that everybody's limited to 100W?

   - Jerry, KF6VB


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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Al Lorona]

Wow. I can't even imagine working 1532 contacts in 24 hours. If, in fact, you 
stayed awake for 24 hours straight, that would have meant you maintained a 64 Q 
per hour rate for the duration. That's an incredible run for *any* contest. 
Congratulations, sir!

Yeah, I let my frustration out on the air when I probably shouldn't have... but 
the guy matched me rude-for-rude, that's for sure, and I've already explained 
that he was not a newbie. Not only is it against the rules to fail to identify, 
it's actually detrimental to him because he makes people wait a long time to 
hear his call sign, and that undoubtedly leads to lost contacts as people give 
up waiting and leave. He (and the others) shoulda known better.

The only reason I continue to operate SSB on Field Day is because my two sons 
operate with me and, since they don't know CW, this allows them to participate 
with me, which so far has made it worth putting up with the circumstances I 
complain about. 

We again used the K2... the all-time, world's finest Field Day rig. Absolutely, 
flawlessly wonderful.

Al  W6LX


>>>But looking back some years I operated either 1E or
>>>1D and single-handedly worked 1040 Qs in 2001, 1357 in 2004, 1532 in 2005, 
>>>1093 
>>>in 2007 and slowed down to 1075 in 2009.  All on SSB and 100W.  With a 
>>>regular 
>>>logging program and no voice recording.

>>>Wes  N7WS


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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[jerry]

On 2023-06-26 17:32, Jim Brown wrote:

On 6/26/2023 4:08 PM, Wes wrote:
You simply have to be nice to the inexperience operators and coach 
them along.


It's far more than that -- far too many stations run high power.


*** Didn't they make a rule this year that everybody's limited to 100W?

   - Jerry, KF6VB


 We

added an SSB station one year from a 5,000 ft peak; it was a complete
exercise in frustration. CW is FAR more effective under crowded band
conditions.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Jim Brown]

On 6/26/2023 4:08 PM, Wes wrote:
You simply have to be nice to the inexperience operators and coach them 
along.


It's far more than that -- far too many stations run high power. We 
added an SSB station one year from a 5,000 ft peak; it was a complete 
exercise in frustration. CW is FAR more effective under crowded band 
conditions.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Wes]

I don't understand the knock on SSB. (I'm a few away from Honor Roll on CW so I 
do that mode too). I haven't operated FD for years, since I've outlived the guys 
I used to mountain top with and it's to damn hot here in the valley to be in the 
field.  (107F as I write).  But looking back some years I operated either 1E or 
1D and single-handedly worked 1040 Qs in 2001, 1357 in 2004, 1532 in 2005, 1093 
in 2007 and slowed down to 1075 in 2009.  All on SSB and 100W.  With a regular 
logging program and no voice recording.


You simply have to be nice to the inexperience operators and coach them along. I 
never have understood the contestor types who get so wound up, frantic and rude.


My 2 cents.

Wes  N7WS

On 6/26/2023 7:29 AM, Wilson Lamb via Elecraft wrote:

I know it's OT, but want to comment on FD operation here in NC.
I wouldn't even consider going on SSB for FD!But our SSB station on 40/15 made 
over 700 QSO, with several ops of modest experience but sensible people.  K3 
and double bazooka.  They were pleased.
I made almost 400 CW QSOs, K3 and 80m dipole/window line/MFJ tuner.
I had a 98% success when calling and many replies, often multiples, when 
running.
There were MANY strong signals on 40 and 20 at all hours I was on, so I didn't 
do 80.
Almost all CW was good, partly thanks to computer keying, and I encountered 
maybe three poor ops, not rude, just inexperienced/unpracticed.  I like SK and 
used it about 30% of the time.  I prefer SK for FD, because one can taylor 
speed/weight style to conditions and other op's experience.  There's no reason 
to expect everyone to deal with 25 WPM from the computer.  They all did fine 
with 15 WPM from the SK, sometimes with the dahs stretched a little.
The little rudeness seen was obviously competent ops who couldn't muster the 
manners to wait their turn.
A couple times I had to ignore them several times to ever get my weaker 
station's exchange!  I expect they are the same people who call DX stations 
when the DX is trying to reply to someone else.  Owning a big station and 
expensive gear IS NOT empowerment to trounce everyone in your way!
All in all, one could hardly ask for better conditions and operation.  Most, 
NOT ALL, people who go to the trouble to learn CW seem to pick up some manners 
along the way!  Of course, there are many fine SSB ops, including a couple of 
our XYLs, but the low bar to entry does cause problems!
Perhaps we need a new mode designator, CBSSB?


One problem I see is that people have the feeling that a slipshod antenna, or a 
commercial whizbang/wonderthingy, will get them by.  It does, but with many 
fewer QSOs and more frustration than they could have with a little more work!
After 66 years of hamming, I'm becoming fonder of ladder line and window line.  The 
commercial window line has saved my bacon many times and tolerates more poor practice 
than expected.  After some outdoor tuner problems, I gave up "proper" practice 
and ran my window line under our van and up through the port in the floor, past many 
other cables, to my little MFJ tuner.  It worked very well, as reported above.  Yes, I 
may have lost a dB or two, but the flat top at 65 feet got them back!  Besides, there's 
no connector problem and I can make fine splices in one minute, using a pocket knife and 
a pair of pliers!  I expect a better BALUN would get me a dB back, but the tiny one in 
the MFJ seems to be fine at 100W.


We also had successful K3 digi which were successful, as was our HB BBQ/potluck 
dinner for 35 ops!


End of OT report.  Did YOU work W4EZ?


Wilson
W4BOH
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[kc8wh.mh]

Wilson,Yes, I did work W4EZ. Our club closed down Sunday morning and I went 
home, put my trusty K3S on the battery and ran a combination of phone and CW 
for the last three hours of Field Day.Worked W4EZ on 40 phone at 1527 on 
Sunday73Mike KC8WHSent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: Wilson Lamb via Elecraft 
 Date: 6/26/23  10:30 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: 
elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation I know it's 
OT, but want to comment on FD operation here in NC.I wouldn't even consider 
going on SSB for FD!But our SSB station on 40/15 made over 700 QSO, with 
several ops of modest experience but sensible people.  K3 and double bazooka.  
They were pleased.I made almost 400 CW QSOs, K3 and 80m dipole/window line/MFJ 
tuner.  I had a 98% success when calling and many replies, often multiples, 
when running.There were MANY strong signals on 40 and 20 at all hours I was on, 
so I didn't do 80.Almost all CW was good, partly thanks to computer keying, and 
I encountered maybe three poor ops, not rude, just inexperienced/unpracticed.  
I like SK and used it about 30% of the time.  I prefer SK for FD, because one 
can taylor speed/weight style to conditions and other op's experience.  There's 
no reason to expect everyone to deal with 25 WPM from the computer.  They all 
did fine with 15 WPM from the SK, sometimes with the dahs stretched a 
little.The little rudeness seen was obviously competent ops who couldn't muster 
the manners to wait their turn.A couple times I had to ignore them several 
times to ever get my weaker station's exchange!  I expect they are the same 
people who call DX stations when the DX is trying to reply to someone else.  
Owning a big station and expensive gear IS NOT empowerment to trounce everyone 
in your way!All in all, one could hardly ask for better conditions and 
operation.  Most, NOT ALL, people who go to the trouble to learn CW seem to 
pick up some manners along the way!  Of course, there are many fine SSB ops, 
including a couple of our XYLs, but the low bar to entry does cause problems!  
Perhaps we need a new mode designator, CBSSB?One problem I see is that people 
have the feeling that a slipshod antenna, or a commercial 
whizbang/wonderthingy, will get them by.  It does, but with many fewer QSOs and 
more frustration than they could have with a little more work!After 66 years of 
hamming, I'm becoming fonder of ladder line and window line.  The commercial 
window line has saved my bacon many times and tolerates more poor practice than 
expected.  After some outdoor tuner problems, I gave up "proper" practice and 
ran my window line under our van and up through the port in the floor, past 
many other cables, to my little MFJ tuner.  It worked very well, as reported 
above.  Yes, I may have lost a dB or two, but the flat top at 65 feet got them 
back!  Besides, there's no connector problem and I can make fine splices in one 
minute, using a pocket knife and a pair of pliers!  I expect a better BALUN 
would get me a dB back, but the tiny one in the MFJ seems to be fine at 100W.We 
also had successful K3 digi which were successful, as was our HB BBQ/potluck 
dinner for 35 ops!End of OT report.  Did YOU work 
W4EZ?WilsonW4BOH__Elecraft
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Dave (NK7Z)]

Wayne,

I suspect that after the software becomes more stable, and more folks 
use the K4, it will replace the K3 for DX operations...  The question 
now becomes, will it fit in a RIB setup.  DX is changing...


73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources

On 6/26/23 07:59, Wayne Burdick wrote:

Thanks for your comments, Eric.

Note that the K4 shares the same pedigree, and weighs only 2 pounds more, for 
the same reasons.

73,
Wayne
N6KR
2A SCV



On Jun 26, 2023, at 7:56 AM, Eric Fitzgerald  wrote:

Every time I take my K3 out into the field - be it Field Day, POTA, SOTA or 
grid activations - I marvel at how well designed this transceiver is for 
portable operation.  From the informative display, to the practical power/ALC 
settings for soundcard digital operation, to the miserly power consumption; 
this radio shines over all the other rigs I have operated portable.  It is a 
pleasure to operate out of the shack.

Thank you Elecraft for devising a machine to match the portable operator's 
needs.

Bravo!

Eric

KG6MZS 2E LAX




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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[WILLIE BABER]

I used a kx1, operating FD with emergency power (batteries internal to kx1).  I 
used two sets of batteries.
The maximum output was 1.5 watts but after 2.5 hours of operating power output 
dropped to .5 watts.  So, I used another set of fresh batteries to operate a 
total of 5.5 hours. I made 70 contacts on 20m and 59 on 40m.  Of course I have 
large antennas.
However, I was surprised by how well the receiver did using my home-station 
antennas (yagis)! Dynamic range was not an issue but there was some I-F 
"blowby," on very strong signals but many dB down from other signals.
...amazing performance for such a simple radio.
73. Will, wj9b




CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/ 

On Monday, June 26, 2023 at 08:59:45 AM MDT, Wayne Burdick 
 wrote:  
 
 Thanks for your comments, Eric. 

Note that the K4 shares the same pedigree, and weighs only 2 pounds more, for 
the same reasons.

73,
Wayne
N6KR
2A SCV


> On Jun 26, 2023, at 7:56 AM, Eric Fitzgerald  wrote:
> 
> Every time I take my K3 out into the field - be it Field Day, POTA, SOTA or 
> grid activations - I marvel at how well designed this transceiver is for 
> portable operation.  From the informative display, to the practical power/ALC 
> settings for soundcard digital operation, to the miserly power consumption; 
> this radio shines over all the other rigs I have operated portable.  It is a 
> pleasure to operate out of the shack.
> 
> Thank you Elecraft for devising a machine to match the portable operator's 
> needs.
> 
> Bravo!
> 
> Eric
> 
> KG6MZS 2E LAX



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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Wayne Burdick]

Thanks for your comments, Eric. 

Note that the K4 shares the same pedigree, and weighs only 2 pounds more, for 
the same reasons.

73,
Wayne
N6KR
2A SCV


> On Jun 26, 2023, at 7:56 AM, Eric Fitzgerald  wrote:
> 
> Every time I take my K3 out into the field - be it Field Day, POTA, SOTA or 
> grid activations - I marvel at how well designed this transceiver is for 
> portable operation.  From the informative display, to the practical power/ALC 
> settings for soundcard digital operation, to the miserly power consumption; 
> this radio shines over all the other rigs I have operated portable.  It is a 
> pleasure to operate out of the shack.
> 
> Thank you Elecraft for devising a machine to match the portable operator's 
> needs.
> 
> Bravo!
> 
> Eric
> 
> KG6MZS 2E LAX



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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Eric Fitzgerald]

Every time I take my K3 out into the field - be it Field Day, POTA, SOTA 
or grid activations - I marvel at how well designed this transceiver is 
for portable operation.  From the informative display, to the practical 
power/ALC settings for soundcard digital operation, to the miserly power 
consumption; this radio shines over all the other rigs I have operated 
portable.  It is a pleasure to operate out of the shack.


Thank you Elecraft for devising a machine to match the portable 
operator's needs.


Bravo!

Eric

KG6MZS 2E LAX

On 6/26/23 7:29 AM, Wilson Lamb via Elecraft wrote:

K3 and double bazooka.

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Operation

[Wayne Burdick]

Hi Wilson,

Contrats on your successful FD effort.

Wayne
N6KR


> On Jun 26, 2023, at 7:29 AM, Wilson Lamb via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> I know it's OT, but want to comment on FD operation here in NC.
> I wouldn't even consider going on SSB for FD!But our SSB station on 40/15 
> made over 700 QSO, with several ops of modest experience but sensible people. 
>  K3 and double bazooka.  They were pleased.
> I made almost 400 CW QSOs, K3 and 80m dipole/window line/MFJ tuner.  
> I had a 98% success when calling and many replies, often multiples, when 
> running.
> There were MANY strong signals on 40 and 20 at all hours I was on, so I 
> didn't do 80.
> Almost all CW was good, partly thanks to computer keying, and I encountered 
> maybe three poor ops, not rude, just inexperienced/unpracticed.  I like SK 
> and used it about 30% of the time.  I prefer SK for FD, because one can 
> taylor speed/weight style to conditions and other op's experience.  There's 
> no reason to expect everyone to deal with 25 WPM from the computer.  They all 
> did fine with 15 WPM from the SK, sometimes with the dahs stretched a little.
> The little rudeness seen was obviously competent ops who couldn't muster the 
> manners to wait their turn.
> A couple times I had to ignore them several times to ever get my weaker 
> station's exchange!  I expect they are the same people who call DX stations 
> when the DX is trying to reply to someone else.  Owning a big station and 
> expensive gear IS NOT empowerment to trounce everyone in your way!
> All in all, one could hardly ask for better conditions and operation.  Most, 
> NOT ALL, people who go to the trouble to learn CW seem to pick up some 
> manners along the way!  Of course, there are many fine SSB ops, including a 
> couple of our XYLs, but the low bar to entry does cause problems!  
> Perhaps we need a new mode designator, CBSSB?
> 
> 
> One problem I see is that people have the feeling that a slipshod antenna, or 
> a commercial whizbang/wonderthingy, will get them by.  It does, but with many 
> fewer QSOs and more frustration than they could have with a little more work!
> After 66 years of hamming, I'm becoming fonder of ladder line and window 
> line.  The commercial window line has saved my bacon many times and tolerates 
> more poor practice than expected.  After some outdoor tuner problems, I gave 
> up "proper" practice and ran my window line under our van and up through the 
> port in the floor, past many other cables, to my little MFJ tuner.  It worked 
> very well, as reported above.  Yes, I may have lost a dB or two, but the flat 
> top at 65 feet got them back!  Besides, there's no connector problem and I 
> can make fine splices in one minute, using a pocket knife and a pair of 
> pliers!  I expect a better BALUN would get me a dB back, but the tiny one in 
> the MFJ seems to be fine at 100W.
> 
> 
> We also had successful K3 digi which were successful, as was our HB 
> BBQ/potluck dinner for 35 ops!
> 
> 
> End of OT report.  Did YOU work W4EZ?
> 
> 
> Wilson
> W4BOH



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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Report

[Wayne Burdick]

And to think I was only engaging in a little subtle humor.

W


> On Jun 27, 2022, at 4:05 PM, Fred Jensen  wrote:
> 
> Yes, in the US, 0.1A1 is permitted everywhere and always has been.  One does 
> often hear the term "CW sub-band" in the context of CW only however.  If you 
> study 47CFR97 closely enough, you'll find that it doesn't even mention CW 
> when talking about sub-band allocations, except for 6 and 2.  What we 
> normally think of as the CW portion of 80 m is the "RTTY/Digital" sub-band.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
> 
> Jim Rhodes wrote on 6/27/2022 2:47 PM:
>> Those bands have a CW only band, but otherwise there is no real place that 
>> CW is NOT allowed. So CW the CW segements are all the amateur bands. Let's 
>> keep it that way.
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 13:45 Fred Jensen > > wrote:
>> 
>>In the US:
>> 
>>50.000 - 50.100 MHz
>>144.000 - !44.100 MHz
>> 
>>73,
>> 
>>Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
>>Sparks NV DM09dn
>>Washoe County
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Report

[Fred Jensen]

Yes, in the US, 0.1A1 is permitted everywhere and always has been.  One 
does often hear the term "CW sub-band" in the context of CW only 
however.  If you study 47CFR97 closely enough, you'll find that it 
doesn't even mention CW when talking about sub-band allocations, except 
for 6 and 2.  What we normally think of as the CW portion of 80 m is the 
"RTTY/Digital" sub-band.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

Jim Rhodes wrote on 6/27/2022 2:47 PM:
Those bands have a CW only band, but otherwise there is no real place 
that CW is NOT allowed. So CW the CW segements are all the amateur 
bands. Let's keep it that way.


On Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 13:45 Fred Jensen > wrote:


In the US:

50.000 - 50.100 MHz
144.000 - !44.100 MHz

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County




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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Report

[Julia Tuttle]

I think most people mean and understand "CW segment" as shorthand for "a
segment that allows CW and does not allow phone" -- where you'd typically
go to operate CW.

On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 5:49 PM Jim Rhodes  wrote:

> Those bands have a CW only band, but otherwise there is no real place that
> CW is NOT allowed. So CW the CW segements are all the amateur bands. Let's
> keep it that way.
>
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 13:45 Fred Jensen  wrote:
>
> > In the US:
> >
> > 50.000 - 50.100 MHz
> > 144.000 - !44.100 MHz
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> > Sparks NV DM09dn
> > Washoe County
> >
> > Andy Durbin wrote on 6/26/2022 4:51 PM:
> > > "Still, that frenzied fun-house of robotic birdcalls did serve as a
> > convenient marker for the end of each CW segment."
> > >
> > > Which bands have a CW segment?  Did I miss a band plan change?
> > >
> > > Andy, k3wyc
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Report

[Jim Rhodes]

Those bands have a CW only band, but otherwise there is no real place that
CW is NOT allowed. So CW the CW segements are all the amateur bands. Let's
keep it that way.

On Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 13:45 Fred Jensen  wrote:

> In the US:
>
> 50.000 - 50.100 MHz
> 144.000 - !44.100 MHz
>
> 73,
>
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
>
> Andy Durbin wrote on 6/26/2022 4:51 PM:
> > "Still, that frenzied fun-house of robotic birdcalls did serve as a
> convenient marker for the end of each CW segment."
> >
> > Which bands have a CW segment?  Did I miss a band plan change?
> >
> > Andy, k3wyc
> >
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8

[Ed Cole]

Ham radio is a TECHNICAL hobby. We are required to pass an exam
demonstrating that we understand the underlying principles, our
privileges are based on our having that understanding, and it is our
LAWFUL responsibility to transmit clean signals.

A major problem is that many hams have never bothered to learn the many
fundamentals of radio, audio, and electronics, stopping after memorizing
only enough Q to pass the exam for their license.

73, Jim K9YC
---
Jim,

Have to smile (or cringe) at your observations.  I certainly did not 
have much technical knowledge when I got my first license in 1958 
(Novice at age 14).  And most hams were not wanting to be bothered 
explaining anything to a "kid".


I bought ARRL books and eventually QST from which I absorbed a little 
bit. I used the Q approach to passing exams (even the 2nd Class Radio 
telephone license).


My first antenna was a 40-meter folded dipole made from TV twinlead 
(locally obtainable).  I just soldered a PL-259 onto the twinlead and 
screwed into my DX-35.  Peak-n-dip and I had output.  SWR


I took Elect. Engineering in college and learned a lot of higher math 
ways of designing electronics (but the simple algebraic equations in the 
ARRL Handbook carried my further).  design now involves sw apps.


Starting as a young engineer, I learned enough to know I didn't know 
much about much.  An older mentor provided wise education on many 
things.  But with no desire or ambition to learn; null = null.


The knob thing came from many CBer upgrades to ham radio. Or "More" is 
better.  I am still running into hams that do not know how to solder 
even basic things.  My last 20-years of professional life I was doing 
surface-mount troubleshooting and repairs.  New techs just swap boards.


I use FT8 mostly on 6m.  I noted that audio level had to be adjusted if 
I switched to MSK-144 (both pgms under wsjt-x).  I run a K3.


73, Ed - KL7UW
Note to Wayne: I worked as tech writer with Hughes Aircraft for 2-1/2 
years.  But at age 78 might be a bit late for being employed, again.

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8

[N4ST - Jim]

New QTH and only a 33-foot vertical for an antenna so far, so wasn't going to 
play Field Day.
Finally broke down and made 50 FT8 contacts in a little over two hours Sunday 
afternoon.
Didn't nano-analyze the signals, but only saw a couple of obvious problem 
signals, mostly 3X audio harmonics .
Some shack room noise being transmitted from a hot mike.
Did notice that a lot of folks insisted on calling on freq instead of operating 
split.

_ 
73,
Jim - N4ST

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Bob McGraw
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2022 12:54
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8

AMEN!

I am using my K3S and P3 to observe the signals.  The antenna is a 4 ele 
yagi at 55 ft, fed with 75 ft of 1/2" Andrew hard-line.

I agree with Jim, the ham community in general has been dumed down in 
order to produce the numbers and dollars.  That's what politicians 
like.  The same thing is happening in our schools and colleges in order 
to get desired passing numbers.

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 6/27/2022 1:39 PM, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 13:21:51 -0700
> From: Jim Brown
> To:elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8
> Message-ID:
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> On 6/26/2022 1:07 PM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote:
>> I agree that there are a lot of improperly set up radios and improperly
>> set up software programs on the bands!
> Ham radio is a TECHNICAL hobby. We are required to pass an exam
> demonstrating that we understand the underlying principles, our
> privileges are based on our having that understanding, and it is our
> LAWFUL responsibility to transmit clean signals.
>
> A major problem is that many hams have never bothered to learn the many
> fundamentals of radio, audio, and electronics, stopping after memorizing
> only enough Q to pass the exam for their license.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC

-- 
IF ONE EXPECTS COMPUTERS AND TECHNOLOGY TO SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS,
ONE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND COMPUTERS AND TECHNOLOGY
AND ONE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THEIR PROBLEMS."
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8

[Steve KC6ZKT]

On 6/26/22 13:21, Jim Brown wrote:
Ham radio is a TECHNICAL hobby. We are required to pass an exam 
demonstrating that we understand the underlying principles, our 
privileges are based on our having that understanding, and it is our 
LAWFUL responsibility to transmit clean signals.


And yet, who has any power to prevent the importation of tons of 
substandard radio equipment that cannot produce clean signals, or 
receive them under adverse conditions?


A major problem is that many hams have never bothered to learn the many 
fundamentals of radio, audio, and electronics, stopping after memorizing 
only enough Q to pass the exam for their license.
And yet, we need numbers of those people too for public service, 
emergency communication, and general goodwill in the community.


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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Report

[Fred Jensen]

In the US:

50.000 - 50.100 MHz
144.000 - !44.100 MHz

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

Andy Durbin wrote on 6/26/2022 4:51 PM:

"Still, that frenzied fun-house of robotic birdcalls did serve as a convenient 
marker for the end of each CW segment."

Which bands have a CW segment?  Did I miss a band plan change?

Andy, k3wyc





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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day Report

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2022 26 Jun 18:45 -0500, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> (We didn't even consider using FT8. Still, that frenzied fun-house of
> robotic birdcalls did serve as a convenient marker for the end of each
> CW segment.)

On Saturday afternoon I took a cursory listen on the hight bands.  10m
only had a brief burst of voice on 28.405 for the couple minutes I tuned
around that frequency.  Neither CW nor FT8 showed any life.

I then checked 15m and found no SSB nor CW but FT8 was going so the band
was open to some extent.

I see this quite a bit where a seemingly dead band still has FT8 signals
with what are probably good S/N ratios.  I've not opened WSJTX in years
and I am guessing from what I hear and what I see on the P3 display.

I was in and out of the shack as I was putting my antennas back together
the storm tore up a couple of weeks back.

73, Nate, N0NB

-- 
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8

[Edward Mccann]

Well stated Nate.

As the Buddha said from his dying bed: 
“Strive on, untiringly.”

I am tempted to add, there but for a mentor administering with grace, go us 
all. 

Ed McCann
AG6CX

> On Jun 26, 2022, at 5:02 PM, Nate Bargmann  wrote:
> 
> * On 2022 26 Jun 17:18 -0500, Jim Rhodes wrote:
>> They weren't only on digital modes like that. Plenty of "all knobs all the
>> way to the right" operators on phone too. Of course that is nothing new on
>> Field Day.
> 
> I think there was at least one who didn't have the knob far enough to
> the right.  On the morning traffic net we had a station come up to pass
> a Field Day message.  The SSB audio was so poor that even though the
> signal strength was adequate, it was pinched to very high audio
> frequencies and only had adequate voice power on emphasized syllables
> and then it dropped down so far that it was unintelligible.  Two of us
> experienced ops with home stations could not make out the complete
> message after several tries.
> 
> The operator notes on the QRZ page to be almost completely a CW op.  I'm
> not sure if this was the op's first attempt at SSB or if the TX audio was
> never set up over the air with an experienced SSB op.  It's also
> possible the op has an unfortunate voice disability, I don't know as I'd
> never heard the op on the net frequency before.  I do hope the issue is
> sorted with a trusted friend.
> 
> We have to be willing to inform other ops when there are even minor
> issues and accept reports of such issues with our own signals with
> grace.
> 
> 73, Nate, N0NB
> 
> -- 
> "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
> possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
> Web: https://www.n0nb.us
> Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2022 26 Jun 17:18 -0500, Jim Rhodes wrote:
> They weren't only on digital modes like that. Plenty of "all knobs all the
> way to the right" operators on phone too. Of course that is nothing new on
> Field Day.

I think there was at least one who didn't have the knob far enough to
the right.  On the morning traffic net we had a station come up to pass
a Field Day message.  The SSB audio was so poor that even though the
signal strength was adequate, it was pinched to very high audio
frequencies and only had adequate voice power on emphasized syllables
and then it dropped down so far that it was unintelligible.  Two of us
experienced ops with home stations could not make out the complete
message after several tries.

The operator notes on the QRZ page to be almost completely a CW op.  I'm
not sure if this was the op's first attempt at SSB or if the TX audio was
never set up over the air with an experienced SSB op.  It's also
possible the op has an unfortunate voice disability, I don't know as I'd
never heard the op on the net frequency before.  I do hope the issue is
sorted with a trusted friend.

We have to be willing to inform other ops when there are even minor
issues and accept reports of such issues with our own signals with
grace.

73, Nate, N0NB

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8

[jerry]

On 2022-06-26 12:48, Jim Brown wrote:
 I

have zero interest in FT8 contesting.

*** I have zero interest in FT8 in general...but contesting might be a 
good use case for it.  Its weakness is
that it doesn't allow chatting - the format is fixed.  But contesting is 
like that anyway.


  Might be fun to write a software robot to go win Field Day for me :).

 - Jerry KF6VB


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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8

[Logan R Zintsmaster]

“But the knob goes to 11!”

Logan KE7AZ 

Entropy is winning. 

> On Jun 26, 2022, at 3:26 PM, Eric Fitzgerald  wrote:
> 
> I noticed things got a bit worse as Field Day 2022 wore on.  I wonder if, as 
> the batteries continued to discharge, the distortion products increased.
> 
> Eric KG6MZS
> 
>> On 6/26/22 3:16 PM, Jim Rhodes wrote:
>> They weren't only on digital modes like that. Plenty of "all knobs all the
>> way to the right" operators on phone too. Of course that is nothing new on
>> Field Day.
>> 
>> On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 3:08 PM Lance Collister, W7GJ 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8

[Eric Fitzgerald]

I noticed things got a bit worse as Field Day 2022 wore on.  I wonder 
if, as the batteries continued to discharge, the distortion products 
increased.


Eric KG6MZS

On 6/26/22 3:16 PM, Jim Rhodes wrote:

They weren't only on digital modes like that. Plenty of "all knobs all the
way to the right" operators on phone too. Of course that is nothing new on
Field Day.

On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 3:08 PM Lance Collister, W7GJ 
wrote:



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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8

[Jim Rhodes]

They weren't only on digital modes like that. Plenty of "all knobs all the
way to the right" operators on phone too. Of course that is nothing new on
Field Day.

On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 3:08 PM Lance Collister, W7GJ 
wrote:

> Hi Bob,
>
> I agree that there are a lot of improperly set up radios and improperly
> set up
> software programs on the bands! I operate mostly 6m and see that many
> people think
> that they can just connect the cables and start operating FT8 :-( FT8 is
> most
> certainly a very powerful innovation, and can lead to some amazing
> contacts. However,
> FT8 is NOT "Plug and Play"!
>
> Besides setting the audio levels properly for transmit, many users seem to
> have no
> idea about audio harmonics or why the WSJT-X developers took so much
> effort to make
> the program compatible with hundreds of different radios. This was not
> done without
> purpose! This feature enables those radios to automatically shift
> frequency on
> transmit, so the audio tones sent through the transmitter filter will not
> be
> generating harmonics throughout the entire (typically) 2800 Hz transmitter
> filter
> passband. An FT8 audio signal generated at 300 Hz will generate signals at
> 300, 600,
> 900, 1200, 1500, 1800, 2100, 2400 and 2700 Hz, and will become broader at
> each
> harmonic. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that is pretty easy to
> completely
> destroy the band by transmitting an FT8 signal using audio frequencies
> below 1500 Hz!
>
> My suggestion to any newcomers to FT8 is the read the manual, and choose
> the proper
> settings from the FILE/SETTINGS/RADIO screen so the transmitter frequency
> on your
> particular radio will automatically shift as required when a different
> "offset
> frequency" on the waterfall is selected for transmit.
>
> If that cannot be understood or figured out, then the simple solution is
> to ALWAYS
> KEEP YOUR TRANSMITTED AUDIO TONES ABOVE 1500 HZ BY SELECTING A TRANSMITTER
> OFFSET
> ABOVE 1500 HZ! Simple as that.
>
> Please share this information with anyone you see clogging up the bandpass
> with audio
> harmonics. They probably are not aware of the problem and will be grateful
> for the
> insights on how they can prevent generating QRM. It is the responsibility
> of everyone
> to make sure that we educate everyone so the bands remain usable!
>
> GL and VY 73, Lance
>
>
> On 6/26/2022 19:26:35, Bob McGraw wrote:
> > 
> >
> > I operated FD from here at the house this weekend.  Most all of my FT-8
> > contacts were on 6M.
> >
> > I was appalled at the poor quality of many signals. Many show spurious
> > every 1 kHz to 2 kHz either side of their primary signal.  Several were
> > noted to be bands of noise on the order of 2 kHz to 3 kHz wide. What
> > gives with hams and their pride for good quality signals?   Bottom
> > line..this is poor operating and technical practice.  Just because
> > it was Field Day, that is no excuse either.  Have the masses digressed
> > to this level of non technical expertise?  It sure seems so.
> >
> > Then I was off to 80M and 40M for a few FT-8 contacts. No different.
> > WOW!  This is all very disappointing.
> >
> > 73
> > Bob, K4TAX
> >
> --
> Lance Collister, W7GJ(ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX,
> 3D2LR, 5W0GJ, E6M, TX5K, KH8/W7GJ, V6M, T8GJ, VK9CGJ, VK9XGJ, C21GJ, CP1GJ,
> S79GJ, TX7MB, TO7GJ)
> P.O. Box 73
> Frenchtown, MT   59834-0073
> USA
> TEL: (406) 626-5728
> QTH: DN27ub
> URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
> Skype: lanceW7GJ
> 2m DXCC #11 - 6m DXCC #815 - FFMA #7
>
> Interested in 6m EME?  Ask me about subscribing to the new Magic Band EME
> email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web
> page (above)!
>
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-- 
Jim K0XU
j...@rhodesend.net
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8

[Jim Brown]

On 6/26/2022 1:32 PM, Andy Durbin wrote:

I have operated WSJT-X modes for many years HF-6 meters.  I'm in a very large 
metro area with lots of active FT-8 users.  I have learned that stations with 
perfect signals on the HF bands can show all sort of artifacts on 6 meters.  
For many of these stations it is not because the signals are not clean.  The 
various multiple signals can be caused by multi-path propagation sometimes with 
associated Doppler shift.  I'm not only in a signal dense area but under a busy 
airport arrival route.


Yes, we see a lot of this in NorCal.


The most common FT-8 signal defect is the presence of audio harmonics 
(harmonics of the tone modulation frequency).  These are usually caused by 
driving one or more audio stages into non-linearity and by refusing to use 
WSJT-X split mode.  These signal look very different from 6 meter multi-path.


Yes, and RECEIVE trash can be generated in our stations that can LOOK 
like dirty signals from others.  The good thing out here is that 
population density, at least on 6M, isn't so great that we don't know or 
at least are able to contact other users when we or they have a problem. 
Last season, N5KO and I cooperated to diagnose a distortion problem in a 
friend's station. Trey was at the friend's station, I monitored his 
signal while they tried things.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8

[Jim Brown]

On 6/26/2022 1:07 PM, Lance Collister, W7GJ wrote:
I agree that there are a lot of improperly set up radios and improperly 
set up software programs on the bands!


Ham radio is a TECHNICAL hobby. We are required to pass an exam 
demonstrating that we understand the underlying principles, our 
privileges are based on our having that understanding, and it is our 
LAWFUL responsibility to transmit clean signals.


A major problem is that many hams have never bothered to learn the many 
fundamentals of radio, audio, and electronics, stopping after memorizing 
only enough Q to pass the exam for their license.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8

[David Decoons]

A lot of hams have no clue on how to properly set TX gain on digital modes. 
There are so many variations of radios and interfaces that having a standard is 
almost impossible.

I have seen signals so bad that I cannot even decode them.

The K4 FT8 setup procedure is documented well. I would like to see more 
accurate TX audio level instead of 5 bars of ALC but it seems to work.

My other radio (Flex 6600m) has a TX audio level meter with peak indicator that 
stays yellow as level approaches zero then goes red if level is over zero and 
clipping is then applied.

Quite a few people use older radios for Field Day and use analog interfaces 
such as a Signal Link and they are harder to get set correctly.

Dave wo2x

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 26, 2022, at 3:28 PM, Bob McGraw  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I operated FD from here at the house this weekend.  Most all of my FT-8
> contacts were on 6M.
> 
> I was appalled at the poor quality of many signals. Many show spurious
> every 1 kHz to 2 kHz either side of their primary signal.  Several were
> noted to be bands of noise on the order of 2 kHz to 3 kHz wide.  What
> gives with hams and their pride for good quality signals?   Bottom
> line..this is poor operating and technical practice.  Just because
> it was Field Day, that is no excuse either.  Have the masses digressed
> to this level of non technical expertise?  It sure seems so.
> 
> Then I was off to 80M and 40M for a few FT-8 contacts. No different.
> WOW!  This is all very disappointing.
> 
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> -- 
> IF ONE EXPECTS COMPUTERS AND TECHNOLOGY TO SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS,
> ONE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND COMPUTERS AND TECHNOLOGY
> AND ONE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THEIR PROBLEMS."
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8

[Rick NK7I]

Hi Bob,

That almost has to be your set up (which radio?) to see so many issues;  
over driven rx signal and/or audio levels, and/or the NB on with a harsh 
setting.


I watched a little on HF over FD and didn't see any issues other than 
crowding more than usual (40 looked like 20).  There is the occasional 
errant user but they don't make contacts either, thankfully so they 
don't hang out long.


73,
Rick NK7I


On 6/26/2022 12:26 PM, Bob McGraw wrote:



I operated FD from here at the house this weekend.  Most all of my FT-8
contacts were on 6M.

I was appalled at the poor quality of many signals. Many show spurious
every 1 kHz to 2 kHz either side of their primary signal.  Several were
noted to be bands of noise on the order of 2 kHz to 3 kHz wide. What
gives with hams and their pride for good quality signals?   Bottom
line..this is poor operating and technical practice.  Just because
it was Field Day, that is no excuse either.  Have the masses digressed
to this level of non technical expertise?  It sure seems so.

Then I was off to 80M and 40M for a few FT-8 contacts. No different.
WOW!  This is all very disappointing.

73
Bob, K4TAX


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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8

[Lance Collister, W7GJ]

Hi Bob,

I agree that there are a lot of improperly set up radios and improperly set up 
software programs on the bands! I operate mostly 6m and see that many people think 
that they can just connect the cables and start operating FT8 :-( FT8 is most 
certainly a very powerful innovation, and can lead to some amazing contacts. However, 
FT8 is NOT "Plug and Play"!


Besides setting the audio levels properly for transmit, many users seem to have no 
idea about audio harmonics or why the WSJT-X developers took so much effort to make 
the program compatible with hundreds of different radios. This was not done without 
purpose! This feature enables those radios to automatically shift frequency on 
transmit, so the audio tones sent through the transmitter filter will not be 
generating harmonics throughout the entire (typically) 2800 Hz transmitter filter 
passband. An FT8 audio signal generated at 300 Hz will generate signals at 300, 600, 
900, 1200, 1500, 1800, 2100, 2400 and 2700 Hz, and will become broader at each 
harmonic. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that is pretty easy to completely 
destroy the band by transmitting an FT8 signal using audio frequencies below 1500 Hz!


My suggestion to any newcomers to FT8 is the read the manual, and choose the proper 
settings from the FILE/SETTINGS/RADIO screen so the transmitter frequency on your 
particular radio will automatically shift as required when a different "offset 
frequency" on the waterfall is selected for transmit.


If that cannot be understood or figured out, then the simple solution is to ALWAYS 
KEEP YOUR TRANSMITTED AUDIO TONES ABOVE 1500 HZ BY SELECTING A TRANSMITTER OFFSET 
ABOVE 1500 HZ! Simple as that.


Please share this information with anyone you see clogging up the bandpass with audio 
harmonics. They probably are not aware of the problem and will be grateful for the 
insights on how they can prevent generating QRM. It is the responsibility of everyone 
to make sure that we educate everyone so the bands remain usable!


GL and VY 73, Lance


On 6/26/2022 19:26:35, Bob McGraw wrote:



I operated FD from here at the house this weekend.  Most all of my FT-8
contacts were on 6M.

I was appalled at the poor quality of many signals. Many show spurious
every 1 kHz to 2 kHz either side of their primary signal.  Several were
noted to be bands of noise on the order of 2 kHz to 3 kHz wide. What
gives with hams and their pride for good quality signals?   Bottom
line..this is poor operating and technical practice.  Just because
it was Field Day, that is no excuse either.  Have the masses digressed
to this level of non technical expertise?  It sure seems so.

Then I was off to 80M and 40M for a few FT-8 contacts. No different.
WOW!  This is all very disappointing.

73
Bob, K4TAX


--
Lance Collister, W7GJ(ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 
5W0GJ, E6M, TX5K, KH8/W7GJ, V6M, T8GJ, VK9CGJ, VK9XGJ, C21GJ, CP1GJ, S79GJ, 
TX7MB, TO7GJ)
P.O. Box 73
Frenchtown, MT   59834-0073
USA
TEL: (406) 626-5728
QTH: DN27ub
URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj
Skype: lanceW7GJ
2m DXCC #11 - 6m DXCC #815 - FFMA #7

Interested in 6m EME?  Ask me about subscribing to the new Magic Band EME
email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web
page (above)!

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and FT-8

[Jim Brown]

On 6/26/2022 12:26 PM, Bob McGraw wrote:

Then I was off to 80M and 40M for a few FT-8 contacts. No different.
WOW!  This is all very disappointing.


I spent several hours on CW, playing with a K4 loaned from a neighbor on 
vacation. Very nice radio. I'm using it for K1JT modes on 6M. I have 
zero interest in FT8 contesting.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day report

[Linda M]

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and clean radios

[Gwen Patton]

I use a Verilux UV-C wand. It's the real deal, not a black light sold as a
sanitizer. I also have a water purifier that makes a combination of
hydrogen peroxide and hypochlorous acid. Put a dose in a liter of water,
let it sit for 30 minutes, and it's purified of all but cryptosporidium...
But leave it 4 hours and that's dead, too.

But put a few doses in a liter of water and don't let it sit, and it's a
very good surface disinfectant that won't hurt anything that water won't
hurt. It's not bleach, it's the same chlorine compound your white blood
cells generate to kill pathogens, and is used in municipal water treatment
systems. Cheap disinfectant, made to order.

You can get a spray bottle that supposedly does the same just for making
disinfectant solution, but the cheap ones are from China and will take a
while to arrive.

73,
Gwen, NG3P

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 9:14 PM Wes  wrote:

> I'm glad to see such agreement.  Since I used to do a little woodworking I
> had a
> half box of 3M N95 masks in my shop when this thing hit.  I also bought
> nitrile
> gloves by the box and had about a hundred each of large and small (for my
> SO) on
> hand.  Since then, I've purchased a couple of boxes more of each size
> although
> the gouging doubled the price on the last batch.  Despite now having
> hundreds of
> them, we keep just a couple of pair in the car when we go out and use
> sanitizer
> on them when we get back in the car.
>
> It doesn't damage the gloves and saves our hands.  I would suggest doing
> that
> for the FD operation.
>
> Wes  N7WS
>
> On 6/16/2020 4:31 PM, Wes wrote:
> > If you're going to worry about it, nitrile gloves.
> >
> > Wes  N7WS
> >
> > On 6/16/2020 4:02 PM, AB1DD wrote:
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> Question on cleaning a K3, specifically during Field Day. We need to
> clean
> >> the K3 before a change of operators. What is safe, IE not take off the
> button
> >> labels? Alcohol? We will take the rubber ring off the tuning nob.
> >>
> >> What's good?
> >>
> >
> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and clean radios

[Adrian]

Is it possible that all participants can use their personal laptop for 
remote control, requiring only the clean of the usb cable, and perhaps 
microphone during user change?




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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and clean radios

[Wes]

I'm glad to see such agreement.  Since I used to do a little woodworking I had a 
half box of 3M N95 masks in my shop when this thing hit.  I also bought nitrile 
gloves by the box and had about a hundred each of large and small (for my SO) on 
hand.  Since then, I've purchased a couple of boxes more of each size although 
the gouging doubled the price on the last batch.  Despite now having hundreds of 
them, we keep just a couple of pair in the car when we go out and use sanitizer 
on them when we get back in the car.


It doesn't damage the gloves and saves our hands.  I would suggest doing that 
for the FD operation.


Wes  N7WS

On 6/16/2020 4:31 PM, Wes wrote:

If you're going to worry about it, nitrile gloves.

Wes  N7WS

On 6/16/2020 4:02 PM, AB1DD wrote:

Hi All,

Question on cleaning a K3, specifically during Field Day. We need to clean 
the K3 before a change of operators. What is safe, IE not take off the button 
labels? Alcohol? We will take the rubber ring off the tuning nob.


What's good?



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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and clean radios

[RICHARD Martin]

UV Wands
I checked several LED Chinese uV wands for c band output.  They were
frauds. Buyer beware.

Dick KN6AA

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020, 18:02 W2xj  wrote:

> If that were the case, the radio should never be used outdoors.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Jun 16, 2020, at 7:41 PM, Walter Underwood 
> wrote:
> >
> > UV could be rough on the plastic.
> >
> > I strongly agree with the suggestion to use nitrile gloves. That also
> puts the responsibility onto the guest operator instead of onto the person
> who tried to sanitize the radio.
> >
> > wunder
> > K6WRU
> > Walter Underwood
> > CM87wj
> > http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> >
> >> On Jun 16, 2020, at 4:27 PM, W2xj  wrote:
> >>
> >> handheld UV sanitizer.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
>  On Jun 16, 2020, at 7:03 PM, AB1DD  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi All,
> >>>
> >>> Question on cleaning a K3, specifically during Field Day. We need to
> clean the K3 before a change of operators. What is safe, IE not take off
> the button labels? Alcohol? We will take the rubber ring off the tuning nob.
> >>>
> >>> What's good?
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> 73,
> >>> Carl
> >>> AB1DD
> >>>
> >>> Resistance is futile.
> >>> (don't know about reactance, though)
> >>>
> >>> __
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> >>
> >> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and clean radios

[W2xj]

If that were the case, the radio should never be used outdoors. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 16, 2020, at 7:41 PM, Walter Underwood  wrote:
> 
> UV could be rough on the plastic.
> 
> I strongly agree with the suggestion to use nitrile gloves. That also puts 
> the responsibility onto the guest operator instead of onto the person who 
> tried to sanitize the radio.
> 
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> 
>> On Jun 16, 2020, at 4:27 PM, W2xj  wrote:
>> 
>> handheld UV sanitizer.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
 On Jun 16, 2020, at 7:03 PM, AB1DD  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> Question on cleaning a K3, specifically during Field Day. We need to clean 
>>> the K3 before a change of operators. What is safe, IE not take off the 
>>> button labels? Alcohol? We will take the rubber ring off the tuning nob.
>>> 
>>> What's good?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Carl
>>> AB1DD
>>> 
>>> Resistance is futile.
>>> (don't know about reactance, though)
>>> 
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>> 
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>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to w...@w2xj.net 
>> 
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and clean radios

[Fred Jensen]

I volunteered at the local blood center for 15 years or so.  They had 
wipes [can't remember the name] for hands, and Caviwipes for surfaces.


https://www.metrex.com/en-us/products/surface-disinfectants/caviwipes

One can should last all FD and then some, there's a big roll inside 
soaked in the disinfectant.  They seemed safe for any surface, we used 
them to wipe down the apheresis machines which were covered with printed 
legends and the like.


However, I'd recommend nitrile gloves for all the operators.  They go 
inside-out when removed, easy disposal, personal hand wipes for after 
removal.  Clean the radios, mics, paddles, keyboards, and 
monitors/laptops after FD.  This also shifts much of the responsibility 
for appropriate behavior to the operators.


73,
Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County
On 6/16/2020 4:47 PM, George Thornton wrote:

Assuming this is not just keying you are also going to have to disinfect the 
microphone.  You also have issues with computer keyboards for logging.

For working with computers I would think the commercial equipment wipes would 
be OK.

I typically wet paper towels with alcohol so it is damp but not dripping.  I 
have used that method to clean screens and keyboards on laptops with no 
problems.

I do think the virus is pretty vulnerable outside the human body.   70 percent 
or higher concentration of alcohol wiped across a surface should kill any virus 
that got there.

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Michael Van Norman
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 4:36 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and clean radios

This sounds like the right answer.  Have operators use gloves and then clean 
once at the end.

/Mike
K6VN

On 6/16/20 16:31, Wes wrote:

If you're going to worry about it, nitrile gloves.

Wes  N7WS

On 6/16/2020 4:02 PM, AB1DD wrote:

Hi All,

Question on cleaning a K3, specifically during Field Day. We need to
clean the K3 before a change of operators. What is safe, IE not take
off the button labels? Alcohol? We will take the rubber ring off the
tuning nob.

What's good?


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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and clean radios

[Hank Garretson]

It is endless. Sanitize the radio, the keyboard, the pencil, the paper, the
desk, the chair, the mouse, the ...

Better bet. Keep your blooming hands away from your face! Don't ever touch
your face!

Contest, Cope Exuberantly,

Hank, W6SX
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and clean radios

[George Thornton]

Assuming this is not just keying you are also going to have to disinfect the 
microphone.  You also have issues with computer keyboards for logging.

For working with computers I would think the commercial equipment wipes would 
be OK.

I typically wet paper towels with alcohol so it is damp but not dripping.  I 
have used that method to clean screens and keyboards on laptops with no 
problems.

I do think the virus is pretty vulnerable outside the human body.   70 percent 
or higher concentration of alcohol wiped across a surface should kill any virus 
that got there.

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Michael Van Norman
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 4:36 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and clean radios

This sounds like the right answer.  Have operators use gloves and then clean 
once at the end.

/Mike
K6VN

On 6/16/20 16:31, Wes wrote:
> If you're going to worry about it, nitrile gloves.
>
> Wes  N7WS
>
> On 6/16/2020 4:02 PM, AB1DD wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Question on cleaning a K3, specifically during Field Day. We need to 
>> clean the K3 before a change of operators. What is safe, IE not take 
>> off the button labels? Alcohol? We will take the rubber ring off the 
>> tuning nob.
>>
>> What's good?
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and clean radios

[Walter Underwood]

UV could be rough on the plastic.

I strongly agree with the suggestion to use nitrile gloves. That also puts the 
responsibility onto the guest operator instead of onto the person who tried to 
sanitize the radio.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Jun 16, 2020, at 4:27 PM, W2xj  wrote:
> 
> handheld UV sanitizer.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jun 16, 2020, at 7:03 PM, AB1DD  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> Question on cleaning a K3, specifically during Field Day. We need to clean 
>> the K3 before a change of operators. What is safe, IE not take off the 
>> button labels? Alcohol? We will take the rubber ring off the tuning nob.
>> 
>> What's good?
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 73,
>> Carl
>> AB1DD
>> 
>> Resistance is futile.
>> (don't know about reactance, though)
>> 
>> __
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and clean radios

[Michael Van Norman]

This sounds like the right answer.  Have operators use gloves and then 
clean once at the end.


/Mike
K6VN

On 6/16/20 16:31, Wes wrote:

If you're going to worry about it, nitrile gloves.

Wes  N7WS

On 6/16/2020 4:02 PM, AB1DD wrote:

Hi All,

Question on cleaning a K3, specifically during Field Day. We need to 
clean the K3 before a change of operators. What is safe, IE not take 
off the button labels? Alcohol? We will take the rubber ring off the 
tuning nob.


What's good?


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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and clean radios

[Wes]

If you're going to worry about it, nitrile gloves.

Wes  N7WS

On 6/16/2020 4:02 PM, AB1DD wrote:

Hi All,

Question on cleaning a K3, specifically during Field Day. We need to clean the 
K3 before a change of operators. What is safe, IE not take off the button 
labels? Alcohol? We will take the rubber ring off the tuning nob.


What's good?



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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day and clean radios

[W2xj]

handheld UV sanitizer.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 16, 2020, at 7:03 PM, AB1DD  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> Question on cleaning a K3, specifically during Field Day. We need to clean 
> the K3 before a change of operators. What is safe, IE not take off the button 
> labels? Alcohol? We will take the rubber ring off the tuning nob.
> 
> What's good?
> 
> -- 
> 
> 73,
> Carl
> AB1DD
> 
> Resistance is futile.
> (don't know about reactance, though)
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[Kevin Cozens]

Conversely activity steadily drops off on Sunday and it drops rapidly
after 1800Z, there's not enough activity to compensate for lost time due
to a late start on Saturday.


The other problem one runs in to are the self-appointed "FD police" who will 
refuse to work you as they will tell you it is past a given time and you are 
supposed to have ceased FD operations.


It happened to me one time. I had a late set up which meant I should have 
been able to run the extra three hours. When I tried to contact someone in 6 
land they refused the contact telling me my time was up. At that point I 
just called it a day.


--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   | "Nerds make the shiny things that
https://www.patreon.com/KevinCozens | distract the mouth-breathers, and
| that's why we're powerful"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  |
#include  | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[donovanf]

Based on many Field Days, I'm certain that the optimum strategy is 
to be ready to at 1800Z. Plenty of stations are active at 1800Z and 
activity grows rapidly over the next few hours. Conversely activity 
steadily drops off on Sunday and it drops rapidly after 1800Z, there's 
not enough activity to compensate for lost time due to a late start on 
Saturday. 


This advice might be sub-optimum for QRP stations than benefit from 
less crowded bands. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 



- Original Message -

From: "K8TE"  
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 11:45:54 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day 

If you have operated FD recently (past multiple decades), you know there are 
NOT enough stations operating during those "extra" three hours to make it 
worth while. Of course, if you have plenty of beer and ice, I guess you 
could stay at the rig until there isn't anyone else left to work. That 
could be past 2100 UTC since, it appears, many don't read the rules/FAQ. 

By 1800 UTC, I am ready to stop operating, have a (one) beer, tear down, and 
listen to CW coming from the swamp cooler at home. I guess I won't need to 
tear down this year since I'll enter in Category E, probably. I will still 
hear the CW in the swamp cooler. The average life span for any "permanent" 
setup in my station is approximately 24 hours or until I read the next 
Elecraft Digest. I suppose that won't qualify for set-up time in Category 
E. Wait! I need to check the rules! 

73, Bill, K8TE 



-- 
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ 
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[K8TE]

If you have operated FD recently (past multiple decades), you know there are
NOT enough stations operating during those "extra" three hours to make it
worth while.  Of course, if you have plenty of beer and ice, I guess you
could stay at the rig until there isn't anyone else left to work.  That
could be past 2100 UTC since, it appears, many don't read the rules/FAQ.

By 1800 UTC, I am ready to stop operating, have a (one) beer, tear down, and
listen to CW coming from the swamp cooler at home.  I guess I won't need to
tear down this year since I'll enter in Category E, probably.  I will still
hear the CW in the swamp cooler.  The average life span for any "permanent"
setup in my station is approximately 24 hours or until I read the next
Elecraft Digest.  I suppose that won't qualify for set-up time in Category
E.  Wait!  I need to check the rules!

73, Bill, K8TE



--
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[Peter Wollan]

Class D and E are home stations. They certainly began setting up long
before the Friday of FD weekend. They don’t get the extra hours to operate.

   Peter W0LLN


On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 9:08 AM Andy Durbin  wrote:

> The field day rules need to be reviewed and corrected, not just for
> allowed power sources.
>
> Take this for example -
>
> "3. Date and Time Period: Field Day 2020 will be held June 27-28. Field
> Day is ALWAYS the fourth full weekend, beginning at 1800 UTC Saturday and
> ending at 2059 UTC Sunday.
>  3.1. Class A and B (see below) stations that do not begin setting up
> until 1800 UTC on Saturday may operate the entire 27-hour Field Day period.
>  3.2. Stations who begin setting up before 1800 UTC Saturday may work only
> 24 consecutive hours, commencing when on-the-air operations begin.
>  3.3. No class A or B station may begin its set-up earlier than  UTC
> on the Friday (Thursday afternoon or evening local time) preceding the
> Field Day period. Cumulative set-up time shall not exceed a total of 24
> hours."
>
> This rule set allows a 1E station to operate for almost 27 hours.  The
> contest start and end times are defined in rule 3.0.  None of the
> subordinate rules say that a 1E station that performs all setting up after
> 1800 UTC Saturday is not allowed to operate for the full contest period.
>
> It takes me less than 1 hour to convert from mains power to running the
> entire station on a generator.  The rules, as published, allow me to
> connect and start the generator after 1800 UTC Saturday and continue
> operating until 2059 UTC Sunday.
>
> ARRL representatives have told me that 1E stations may operate only 24
> hours but the rules don't say that.
>
> 73,
> Andy, k3wyc
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[JP Douglas]

75 amp AGM batteries still $140.00 on epay w/free shipping, I prefer them to 
the 105 amp/hr batteries as they weigh a little less.
Use it w/50 watt Solar Panel and have done FD from start to finish with it as 
long as weather cooperates.

73 de Jose Douglas KB1TCD

Sent from my iPad

> On May 25, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Phil Kane  wrote:
> 
> On 5/25/2020 10:09 AM, JP Douglas wrote:
> 
>> I bought an 75 amp/hr AGM deep cycle battery a couple of years ago
>> for $138.00 with free shipping from epay, works fine.
> 
> That was a decent price "a couple of years ago".  It's gone up since
> then.  It's almost time to renew my Trojan 27AGM (75 AH) batts.  We're
> planning to move a year from now and I hope that the existing ones will
> hold out until then.  Makes swapping them easy (local pickup from the
> wholesaler).
> 
> 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
> Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402
> 
> From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
> Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[Phil Kane]

On 5/25/2020 10:09 AM, JP Douglas wrote:

> I bought an 75 amp/hr AGM deep cycle battery a couple of years ago
> for $138.00 with free shipping from epay, works fine.

That was a decent price "a couple of years ago".  It's gone up since
then.  It's almost time to renew my Trojan 27AGM (75 AH) batts.  We're
planning to move a year from now and I hope that the existing ones will
hold out until then.  Makes swapping them easy (local pickup from the
wholesaler).

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[stephen shearer]

Also see XLOG

73, steve WB3LGC

On 5/25/20 10:57 AM, Bill Frantz wrote:


Does anyone know of good logging software for linux?

73 Bill AE6JV


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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[JP Douglas]

Pricey!
I bought an 75 amp/hr AGM deep cycle battery a couple of years ago for $138.00 
with free shipping from epay, works fine.
73 de Jose Douglas KB1TCD

Sent from my iPad

> On May 24, 2020, at 3:59 PM, James Bennett via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dave,
> 
> I’ve been a customer of Northern Arizona Wind & Sun for many years. I have 
> always been partial to the Concorde “Sun Xtender” line. Here is a link:
> 
> https://www.solar-electric.com/residential/batteries-battery-storage.html?manufacturer=369_battery_type=443_battery_voltage=386
>  
> 
> 
> 73, Jim / W6JHB
> 
>> On May 24, 2020, at 12:14 PM, David Lear  wrote:
>> 
>> Now my club is nixing a close  community effort I'm going to operate FD as
>> 2E running K3/P3 at 100W. Neighbor AF4B operating across the road from me
>> with his K3. Vertical antenna on my front lawn and me operating from my
>> garage. Maybe for 12 hours, if I can make it. Any suggestions for a
>> good quality AGM battery(s). Limit to $250.
>> 
>> 73, Dave Lear NE5DL
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[rich hurd WC3T]

I have a solution for your NTP tick if you should ever want to avail
yourself.   It involves a time server and a USB connected GPS receiver.
Works FB until the GPS satellites fall from the sky.  :)

https://morsetutor.com/2014/10/jt65jt9-workstation-gps-time-sync/



On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 10:57 Bill Frantz  wrote:

> Back around 1960, when IBM was developing the 360 series, the
> people working on the architecture document adopted a policy of
> not answering questions. Instead they rewrote the appropriate
> section and asked if it now answered the question. The result
> was the best architectural description of a computer ever produced.
>
> I basically agree with Jim about emergency planning. For me, FT
> modes are out (even if they could pass the necessary traffic)
> because they require accurate time. My MacBook Pro doesn't keep
> accurate time without a continuous connection to a NTP source.
> When I'm at home, that comes via Comcast, which requires mains
> power, and will probably fail for other reasons as well. In the
> field I use my cell phone, which has the same problems.
>
> Power is also difficult. At field day, I've used an inverter 12V
> to 120V to power my laptop power adapter. I don't have to
> describe why this solution is bad in so many dimensions to this group.
>
> To solve the laptop power problem, I built a computer using a
> single board computer and a 12V monitor from Adafruit. When
> running it draws 800 mA, but the computer really isn't fast
> enough for the FT modes. Faster single board computers are
> available, but they draw more power.
>
> This computer still doesn't solve all the problems, I haven't
> found a good linux logging program, and it would be nice to have
> a short term internal battery backup to save the computer state
> when it gets accidentally unplugged. The backup battery should
> be relatively easy. One solution just powers the single board
> computer and not the monitor. Then the user knows power has dropped.
>
> Does anyone know of good logging software for linux?
>
> 73 Bill AE6JV
>
> On 5/24/20 at 2:02 AM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote:
>
> >I understand the intent of the statement in the FAQ. My point
> >is that these clarifications should be part of the FD RULES,
> >not an FAQ. To me, an FAQ is answering questions raised because
> >the Rules are poorly written or incomplete. If I were running
> >things, I would ban all FAQs and tell the author(s) of the
> >basic document(s) to finish their job!
>
> ...
>
> >The good thing about requiring true backup power for the computer causes
> us as hams to think more seriously about running in emergencies. The bad
> thing is that independent of the mains AND not powered by a generator is
> that most laptops now need 16-20V at their power socket, it's hard to find
> QUIET DC-DC converters, and it probably takes more power to run the laptop
> than to run a KX3.
>
> ---
> Bill Frantz| When all else fails:  | Periwinkle
> (408)348-7900  | Voice and CW. | 150 Rivermead
> Rd #235
> www.pwpconsult.com |   | Peterborough,
> NH 03458
>
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-- 
72,
Rich Hurd / WC3T / DMR: 3142737
Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[David Herring]

Take a look at cqrlog, cqrlog.com  and see if that would 
work for you. 

73,
David - N5DCH

> On May 25, 2020, at 8:57 AM, Bill Frantz  wrote:
> 
> Back around 1960, when IBM was developing the 360 series, the people working 
> on the architecture document adopted a policy of not answering questions. 
> Instead they rewrote the appropriate section and asked if it now answered the 
> question. The result was the best architectural description of a computer 
> ever produced.
> 
> I basically agree with Jim about emergency planning. For me, FT modes are out 
> (even if they could pass the necessary traffic) because they require accurate 
> time. My MacBook Pro doesn't keep accurate time without a continuous 
> connection to a NTP source. When I'm at home, that comes via Comcast, which 
> requires mains power, and will probably fail for other reasons as well. In 
> the field I use my cell phone, which has the same problems.
> 
> Power is also difficult. At field day, I've used an inverter 12V to 120V to 
> power my laptop power adapter. I don't have to describe why this solution is 
> bad in so many dimensions to this group.
> 
> To solve the laptop power problem, I built a computer using a single board 
> computer and a 12V monitor from Adafruit. When running it draws 800 mA, but 
> the computer really isn't fast enough for the FT modes. Faster single board 
> computers are available, but they draw more power.
> 
> This computer still doesn't solve all the problems, I haven't found a good 
> linux logging program, and it would be nice to have a short term internal 
> battery backup to save the computer state when it gets accidentally 
> unplugged. The backup battery should be relatively easy. One solution just 
> powers the single board computer and not the monitor. Then the user knows 
> power has dropped.
> 
> Does anyone know of good logging software for linux?
> 
> 73 Bill AE6JV
> 
> On 5/24/20 at 2:02 AM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote:
> 
>> I understand the intent of the statement in the FAQ. My point is that these 
>> clarifications should be part of the FD RULES, not an FAQ. To me, an FAQ is 
>> answering questions raised because the Rules are poorly written or 
>> incomplete. If I were running things, I would ban all FAQs and tell the 
>> author(s) of the basic document(s) to finish their job!
> 
> ...
> 
>> The good thing about requiring true backup power for the computer causes us 
>> as hams to think more seriously about running in emergencies. The bad thing 
>> is that independent of the mains AND not powered by a generator is that most 
>> laptops now need 16-20V at their power socket, it's hard to find QUIET DC-DC 
>> converters, and it probably takes more power to run the laptop than to run a 
>> KX3.
> 
> ---
> Bill Frantz| When all else fails:  | Periwinkle
> (408)348-7900  | Voice and CW. | 150 Rivermead Rd #235
> www.pwpconsult.com |   | Peterborough, NH 03458
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[Bill Frantz]

Back around 1960, when IBM was developing the 360 series, the 
people working on the architecture document adopted a policy of 
not answering questions. Instead they rewrote the appropriate 
section and asked if it now answered the question. The result 
was the best architectural description of a computer ever produced.


I basically agree with Jim about emergency planning. For me, FT 
modes are out (even if they could pass the necessary traffic) 
because they require accurate time. My MacBook Pro doesn't keep 
accurate time without a continuous connection to a NTP source. 
When I'm at home, that comes via Comcast, which requires mains 
power, and will probably fail for other reasons as well. In the 
field I use my cell phone, which has the same problems.


Power is also difficult. At field day, I've used an inverter 12V 
to 120V to power my laptop power adapter. I don't have to 
describe why this solution is bad in so many dimensions to this group.


To solve the laptop power problem, I built a computer using a 
single board computer and a 12V monitor from Adafruit. When 
running it draws 800 mA, but the computer really isn't fast 
enough for the FT modes. Faster single board computers are 
available, but they draw more power.


This computer still doesn't solve all the problems, I haven't 
found a good linux logging program, and it would be nice to have 
a short term internal battery backup to save the computer state 
when it gets accidentally unplugged. The backup battery should 
be relatively easy. One solution just powers the single board 
computer and not the monitor. Then the user knows power has dropped.


Does anyone know of good logging software for linux?

73 Bill AE6JV

On 5/24/20 at 2:02 AM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote:

I understand the intent of the statement in the FAQ. My point 
is that these clarifications should be part of the FD RULES, 
not an FAQ. To me, an FAQ is answering questions raised because 
the Rules are poorly written or incomplete. If I were running 
things, I would ban all FAQs and tell the author(s) of the 
basic document(s) to finish their job!


...


The good thing about requiring true backup power for the computer causes us as 
hams to think more seriously about running in emergencies. The bad thing is 
that independent of the mains AND not powered by a generator is that most 
laptops now need 16-20V at their power socket, it's hard to find QUIET DC-DC 
converters, and it probably takes more power to run the laptop than to run a 
KX3.


---
Bill Frantz| When all else fails:  | Periwinkle
(408)348-7900  | Voice and CW. | 150 Rivermead 
Rd #235
www.pwpconsult.com |   | Peterborough, 
NH 03458


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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[Jim Brown]

Bill,

I understand the intent of the statement in the FAQ. My point is that 
these clarifications should be part of the FD RULES, not an FAQ. To me, 
an FAQ is answering questions raised because the Rules are poorly 
written or incomplete. If I were running things, I would ban all FAQs 
and tell the author(s) of the basic document(s) to finish their job!


When I first did FD in 1957, we logged on paper and kept paper dupe 
sheets. One guy operated, a second kept the log and the dupe sheet. The 
rules have not changed much since then, and to some extent, those days 
are still the mindset of both the League and many club participants.


BTW -- my question about the monitor was rhetorical, and I don't agree 
with your logic about it. It's part of the computer's user interface -- 
we humans can't operate the computer to control a radio without it.


The good thing about requiring true backup power for the computer causes 
us as hams to think more seriously about running in emergencies. The bad 
thing is that independent of the mains AND not powered by a generator is 
that most laptops now need 16-20V at their power socket, it's hard to 
find QUIET DC-DC converters, and it probably takes more power to run the 
laptop than to run a KX3.


There's the interpretation of another contesting rule that is the basis 
of "split site" operation during Sweepstakes. Two operators run one day 
from their own QTH, then trade QTHs for the second day. This was 
originated by our own big club, NCCC, and has since been adopted by 
other clubs. The RULES says that 1) each operation needs to use a 
different call (usually a Club call) and 2) a TRANSMITTER may be used 
with only one call during a contest. This means four calls and four 
transmitters. Starting out in broadcasting a few years after that first 
FD, I've always viewed a power amp as part a transmitter, but the Rules 
are not interpreted that way -- they apply it only to the transceiver!


73, Jim K9YC

On 5/24/2020 5:09 PM, Nr4c wrote:

The monitor does not control anything, so it can be powered anyway you want.  
But if you push buttons on the Winkeyer and it’s not connected to the computer 
then you are ok. But if you let n1mm do the keying ( Winkeyer or not) then the 
computer must be on battrry or some form of emergency power.


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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[Barry Baines via Elecraft]

Jim:

> On May 24, 2020, at 6:41 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Frank. IMO, this sort of clarification ought to be in the FD RULES, 
> not in an FAQ.  We've done 1AB QRP for at least 8 years using N1MM on a 
> laptop running on a generator.
> 
> A few of the slower NUCs will run on 12V and are adequate for logging. Would 
> this ruling mean that its monitor must not run on a generator or mains power?
> 
> What if the transmitter is being keyed by a WinKeyer which is controlled from 
> a computer running on a generator?


I’m not a lawyer nor do I play one on television, nor did I stay at a Holiday 
Inn Express last night….  ;-)

It seems to me that the ’spirit’ of the FD rules is that anything that impacts 
the transmission/reception/interpretation of RF communications cannot be on a 
commercial power source if the site is going to claim ‘emergency power’ as the 
power source.

So if a Local Area Network is installed to pass data between stations at the 
site for logging purposes or coordination of transmissions, or is involved with 
digital signal modes, or if there is  computer equipment, monitors, or 
ancillary equipment is used as part of the system to process information as 
part of the overall operation, then they all must be off commercial power if 
‘emergency power’ is to be claimed as the power source.  A Flex system that 
uses the LAN to communicate between Maestro, Antenna Genius, PGXL 
Amplifier,etc.  may only be running CW and SSB without a PC would have to have 
that LAN on emergency power as the LAN is integral to the setup/operation of 
their communications equipment.  If a laptop is running SSDR and has an 
external monitor, both devices would need to be off commercial power.  If a 
laptop is logging contacts or being used for digital modes, it and anything 
else attached to it would also need to be “off the grid” to claim emergency 
power status.

The bottom line is that those that are involved with the design/installation of 
a field day site shouldn’t be looking for ‘exceptions’ to the rules but ask 
themselves whether their site setup meets the ‘intent’ of the rules. 

Or, to put it another way, if the site did have a commercial feed available and 
that feed was lost due to a power outage, would the site be able to continue 
operating regardless on the existing sources of power that they’ve installed at 
the site?  If the answer is “no” (e.g. they need to rewire/reconfigure to 
accommodate the loss of commercial power to keep operating as intended), then 
that site doesn’t qualify as running on emergency power until such time as they 
can indeed operate from start to finish without interruption.

FWIW,

Barry Baines, WD4ASW
Keller, TX


> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
> On 5/24/2020 4:16 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:
>> From the ARRL Field Day FAQ:
>> www.arrl.org/files/file/Field-Day/2019/2019-FD-FAQ-RevA.pdf 
>> 
>> Q. What equipment at our Field Day site must be operated off of the 
>> emergency power in order to claim the 100-point per transmitter bonus?
>> A. You must operate all transmitting and receiving equipment from emergency 
>> power.
>> If you use a computer for digital modes/, and/or to control or operate the 
>> radio, /it also must use emergency power.
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[Nr4c]

Jim. 

The monitor does not control anything, so it can be powered anyway you want.  
But if you push buttons on the Winkeyer and it’s not connected to the computer 
then you are ok. But if you let n1mm do the keying ( Winkeyer or not) then the 
computer must be on battrry or some form of emergency power. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On May 24, 2020, at 7:43 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Frank. IMO, this sort of clarification ought to be in the FD RULES, 
> not in an FAQ.  We've done 1AB QRP for at least 8 years using N1MM on a 
> laptop running on a generator.
> 
> A few of the slower NUCs will run on 12V and are adequate for logging. Would 
> this ruling mean that its monitor must not run on a generator or mains power?
> 
> What if the transmitter is being keyed by a WinKeyer which is controlled from 
> a computer running on a generator?
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
>> On 5/24/2020 4:16 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:
>> From the ARRL Field Day FAQ:
>> www.arrl.org/files/file/Field-Day/2019/2019-FD-FAQ-RevA.pdf 
>> 
>> Q. What equipment at our Field Day site must be operated off of the 
>> emergency power in order to claim the 100-point per transmitter bonus?
>> A. You must operate all transmitting and receiving equipment from emergency 
>> power.
>> If you use a computer for digital modes/, and/or to control or operate the 
>> radio, /it also must use emergency power.
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[Jim Brown]

Thanks Frank. IMO, this sort of clarification ought to be in the FD 
RULES, not in an FAQ.  We've done 1AB QRP for at least 8 years using 
N1MM on a laptop running on a generator.


A few of the slower NUCs will run on 12V and are adequate for logging. 
Would this ruling mean that its monitor must not run on a generator or 
mains power?


What if the transmitter is being keyed by a WinKeyer which is controlled 
from a computer running on a generator?


73, Jim K9YC

On 5/24/2020 4:16 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

 From the ARRL Field Day FAQ:

www.arrl.org/files/file/Field-Day/2019/2019-FD-FAQ-RevA.pdf 



Q. What equipment at our Field Day site must be operated off of the 
emergency power in order to claim the 100-point per transmitter bonus?


A. You must operate all transmitting and receiving equipment from 
emergency power.
If you use a computer for digital modes/, and/or to control or operate 
the radio, /it also must use emergency power.


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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[donovanf]

>From the ARRL Field Day FAQ: 


www.arrl.org/files/file/Field-Day/2019/2019-FD-FAQ-RevA.pdf 



Q. What equipment at our Field Day site must be operated off of the emergency 
power in order to claim the 100-point per transmitter bonus? 


A. You must operate all transmitting and receiving equipment from emergency 
power. 
If you use a computer for digital modes , and/or to control or operate the 
radio, it also must use emergency power. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "Jim Brown"  
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2020 8:46:32 PM 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Field Day 

On 5/24/2020 1:16 PM, Jack Brindle via Elecraft wrote: 
> Two things - if the computer controls the radio (and it should for logging 
> and sending exchanges), then it must also be run on emergency power. 

Are you sure about that, Jack? I've seen exactly the opposite statement 
(not directly from ARRL, but by someone quoting ARRL). 

> Second, the addition of a wall charger for the batteries puts you firmly into 
> class D. You can charge the batteries off solar panels to remove this 
> restriction. 

Right. 

73, Jim K9YC 
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[Macy monkeys]

They should give extra credit for using pencil and paper...

John K7FD

> On May 24, 2020, at 2:31 PM, stephen shearer  wrote:
> 
> "To be listed as Class A, all contacts must be
> made with transmitter(s) and receiver(s) operating independent of commercial 
> power mains."
> 
> IN the past...  I DO remember that IF a computer was used for logging it 
> could be on "mains".  Time was ... computers didn't control the rig while 
> logging.  Also digital modes change things.
> 
> I looked at the rules and "I" could not find the "loggin with mains power" 
> anymore...  There was a time "alt power solar" had to be 5W, too...  I used 
> "find" in pdf .
> 
> 73, steve WB3LGC
> 
>> On 5/24/20 4:46 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> On 5/24/2020 1:16 PM, Jack Brindle via Elecraft wrote:
>>> Two things - if the computer controls the radio (and it should for logging 
>>> and sending exchanges), then it must also be run on emergency power.
>> Are you sure about that, Jack? I've seen exactly the opposite statement (not 
>> directly from ARRL, but by someone quoting ARRL).
>>> Second, the addition of a wall charger for the batteries puts you firmly 
>>> into class D. You can charge the batteries off solar panels to remove this 
>>> restriction.
>> Right.
>> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[stephen shearer]

"To be listed as Class A, all contacts must be
made with transmitter(s) and receiver(s) operating independent of 
commercial power mains."


IN the past...  I DO remember that IF a computer was used for logging it 
could be on "mains".  Time was ... computers didn't control the rig 
while logging.  Also digital modes change things.


I looked at the rules and "I" could not find the "loggin with mains 
power" anymore...  There was a time "alt power solar" had to be 5W, 
too...  I used "find" in pdf .


73, steve WB3LGC

On 5/24/20 4:46 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 5/24/2020 1:16 PM, Jack Brindle via Elecraft wrote:
Two things - if the computer controls the radio (and it should for 
logging and sending exchanges), then it must also be run on emergency 
power. 


Are you sure about that, Jack? I've seen exactly the opposite statement 
(not directly from ARRL, but by someone quoting ARRL).


Second, the addition of a wall charger for the batteries puts you 
firmly into class D. You can charge the batteries off solar panels to 
remove this restriction.


Right.

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[Jack Brindle via Elecraft]

From the FAQ:

"You must operate all transmitting and receiving equipment from emergency 
power. If you use a computer for digital modes, and/or to control or operate 
the radio, it also must use emergency power. If the computer is used only for 
logging and is not keying the transmitter, it does not need to be emergency 
powered.” 

Now this is an answer to a question about the 100 point emergency power bonus, 
but we have been told it applies to normal operation as well. The key is 
“controlling the transceiver”. If it even changes bands or causes transmission, 
then it must be operated on emergency power.

If anyone questions the charging requirements, section 6 “Miscellaneous Rules:” 
states:

"6.9. Batteries may be charged while in use. Except for Class D stations, the 
batteries must be charged from a power source other than commercial power 
mains. To claim the power multiplier of five, the batteries must be charged 
from something other than a motor driven generator or commercial mains."

Very clear.

73!
Jack, W6FB


> On May 24, 2020, at 1:46 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On 5/24/2020 1:16 PM, Jack Brindle via Elecraft wrote:
>> Two things - if the computer controls the radio (and it should for logging 
>> and sending exchanges), then it must also be run on emergency power. 
> 
> Are you sure about that, Jack? I've seen exactly the opposite statement (not 
> directly from ARRL, but by someone quoting ARRL).
> 
>> Second, the addition of a wall charger for the batteries puts you firmly 
>> into class D. You can charge the batteries off solar panels to remove this 
>> restriction.
> 
> Right.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[Walter Underwood]

Don’t guess, look it up.

Q. What equipment at our Field Day site must be operated off of the emergency 
power in order to claim the 100-point per transmitter bonus?

A. You must operate all transmitting and receiving equipment from emergency 
power. If you use a computer for digital modes, and/or to control or operate 
the radio, it also must use emergency power. If the computer is used only for 
logging and is not keying the transmitter, it does not need to be emergency 
powered.

http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Field-Day/2019/2019-FD-FAQ-RevA.pdf\ 


Also, batteries may be charged from commercial power, just not during Field Day 
operation. It does make sense to get a simple charger if you are going to buy a 
big battery.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On May 24, 2020, at 2:07 PM, Nr4c  wrote:
> 
> Jim 
> 
> My club had used this idea for as long as I’ve been doing FD with them. If 
> the computer controls the TX, it must be on emergency power. If it only logs, 
> then commercial power is ok.  But if you press F4 to send your call, computer 
> should be on the battery too. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ...nr4c. bill
> 
> 
>> On May 24, 2020, at 4:48 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
>> 
>> On 5/24/2020 1:16 PM, Jack Brindle via Elecraft wrote:
>>> Two things - if the computer controls the radio (and it should for logging 
>>> and sending exchanges), then it must also be run on emergency power. 
>> 
>> Are you sure about that, Jack? I've seen exactly the opposite statement (not 
>> directly from ARRL, but by someone quoting ARRL).
>> 
>>> Second, the addition of a wall charger for the batteries puts you firmly 
>>> into class D. You can charge the batteries off solar panels to remove this 
>>> restriction.
>> 
>> Right.
>> 
>> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[Nr4c]

Jim 

My club had used this idea for as long as I’ve been doing FD with them. If the 
computer controls the TX, it must be on emergency power. If it only logs, then 
commercial power is ok.  But if you press F4 to send your call, computer should 
be on the battery too. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On May 24, 2020, at 4:48 PM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On 5/24/2020 1:16 PM, Jack Brindle via Elecraft wrote:
>> Two things - if the computer controls the radio (and it should for logging 
>> and sending exchanges), then it must also be run on emergency power. 
> 
> Are you sure about that, Jack? I've seen exactly the opposite statement (not 
> directly from ARRL, but by someone quoting ARRL).
> 
>> Second, the addition of a wall charger for the batteries puts you firmly 
>> into class D. You can charge the batteries off solar panels to remove this 
>> restriction.
> 
> Right.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[rich hurd WC3T]

That was my understanding also. Only the transceiver must be on emergency
power.   Didn’t make a lot of sense, but...

On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 16:46 Jim Brown  wrote:

> On 5/24/2020 1:16 PM, Jack Brindle via Elecraft wrote:
> > Two things - if the computer controls the radio (and it should for
> logging and sending exchanges), then it must also be run on emergency
> power.
>
> Are you sure about that, Jack? I've seen exactly the opposite statement
> (not directly from ARRL, but by someone quoting ARRL).
>
> > Second, the addition of a wall charger for the batteries puts you firmly
> into class D. You can charge the batteries off solar panels to remove this
> restriction.
>
> Right.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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-- 
72,
Rich Hurd / WC3T / DMR: 3142737
Northampton County RACES, EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[Jim Brown]

On 5/24/2020 1:16 PM, Jack Brindle via Elecraft wrote:
Two things - if the computer controls the radio (and it should for logging and sending exchanges), then it must also be run on emergency power. 


Are you sure about that, Jack? I've seen exactly the opposite statement 
(not directly from ARRL, but by someone quoting ARRL).



Second, the addition of a wall charger for the batteries puts you firmly into 
class D. You can charge the batteries off solar panels to remove this 
restriction.


Right.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[Jack Brindle via Elecraft]

Be careful following this one. His suggestions will leave you in class D. Why? 
Two things - if the computer controls the radio (and it should for logging and 
sending exchanges), then it must also be run on emergency power. Second, the 
addition of a wall charger for the batteries puts you firmly into class D. You 
can charge the batteries off solar panels to remove this restriction.

Field Day at WVARA station K6EI consists of many QRP stations all running off 
battery, and all are charged by solar panels. For SSB, my 20/80 meter station 
will run the entire event from a single Marine battery (bought at Costco for 
$75). That powers K3S, P3, Computer (15” MacBook Pro) and lighting. It is 
charged during daylight by a 100 watt solar panel. By the time we break down on 
Sunday, the battery is fully charged. That solar array is a game-changer, 
turning this from a multiple battery event into one handled by a single 
deep-discharge marine battery.

Unfortunately, it appears we won’t be doing FD this year from the great vista 
overlooking the San Francisco Bay area (really a spectacular view), although we 
haven’t been told the definitive no just yet.

Be sure to read the full Field Day rules for what is legal and what isn’t. They 
tend to be rather strict.

73!
Jack, W6FB


> On May 24, 2020, at 12:24 PM, Walter Underwood  wrote:
> 
> This was a nice blog post with a link to a deep cycle marine battery. Not the 
> same
> as an AGM battery, but maybe a starting point.
> 
> https://www.amateurradio.com/how-much-does-emergency-power-cost/ 
> 
> 
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> 
>> On May 24, 2020, at 12:14 PM, David Lear  wrote:
>> 
>> Now my club is nixing a close  community effort I'm going to operate FD as
>> 2E running K3/P3 at 100W. Neighbor AF4B operating across the road from me
>> with his K3. Vertical antenna on my front lawn and me operating from my
>> garage. Maybe for 12 hours, if I can make it. Any suggestions for a
>> good quality AGM battery(s). Limit to $250.
>> 
>> 73, Dave Lear NE5DL
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> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[James Bennett via Elecraft]

Dave,

I’ve been a customer of Northern Arizona Wind & Sun for many years. I have 
always been partial to the Concorde “Sun Xtender” line. Here is a link:

https://www.solar-electric.com/residential/batteries-battery-storage.html?manufacturer=369_battery_type=443_battery_voltage=386
 


73, Jim / W6JHB

> On May 24, 2020, at 12:14 PM, David Lear  wrote:
> 
> Now my club is nixing a close  community effort I'm going to operate FD as
> 2E running K3/P3 at 100W. Neighbor AF4B operating across the road from me
> with his K3. Vertical antenna on my front lawn and me operating from my
> garage. Maybe for 12 hours, if I can make it. Any suggestions for a
> good quality AGM battery(s). Limit to $250.
> 
> 73, Dave Lear NE5DL
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Re: [Elecraft] Field Day

[Walter Underwood]

This was a nice blog post with a link to a deep cycle marine battery. Not the 
same
as an AGM battery, but maybe a starting point.

https://www.amateurradio.com/how-much-does-emergency-power-cost/ 


wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On May 24, 2020, at 12:14 PM, David Lear  wrote:
> 
> Now my club is nixing a close  community effort I'm going to operate FD as
> 2E running K3/P3 at 100W. Neighbor AF4B operating across the road from me
> with his K3. Vertical antenna on my front lawn and me operating from my
> garage. Maybe for 12 hours, if I can make it. Any suggestions for a
> good quality AGM battery(s). Limit to $250.
> 
> 73, Dave Lear NE5DL
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Re: [Elecraft] FIELD DAY PREP

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Those transceivers are noted to have that issue.  They are very popular 
and there are thousands of them on the air today.  And we are always 
concerned better receivers.   How about cleaner transmitters.  That 
company did correct the problem but only with releasing a new model.


You aren't the only instance of those causing a problem.

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 6/14/2019 11:59 PM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:

One of the worst FD problems I’ve experienced was a Japanese transceiver (I’ve 
honestly forgotten the brand) in the SSB tent that transmitted a wideband hiss 
whenever the PTT was closed. We couldn’t operate CW on the same band even 
though there was no problem caused by his SSB signal.

Victor 4X6GP


On 14 Jun 2019, at 20:52, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:

So was the issue the result of poor shielding and connectors of cables inside 
the trailer or actual antenna separation?  That would do it.

And could the SSB station be pushing the power and ALC and compression thus 
likely causing distortion and splatter?   That would do it.

One of my major pet gripes for net control operators and contest operators is 
the fact they believe turning things up a bit with the thinking they will be 
heard a bit betterWhen in fact they are making their signal more difficult 
to copy.   If their station sounds good during SSB rag chew QSO's the the same 
settings should also be good for contests, Field Day, and when a net control.  
The mentality of turning things up a wee bit is just pure B. S.

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 14, 2019, at 10:52 AM, KENT TRIMBLE  wrote:

Good morning, Bob . . .

We normally use 75-100 feet separation between dipoles aligned end-to-end, and 
have had no problems over the years.  However, last year we were limited to 
less than 50-feet separation and I noticed the Carrier Operated Relay (COR) in 
my K3 was kicking on occasionally from the SSB station with which we (CW) were 
obliged to share a trailer.

I tried a TRP-150 for the first time on the air this morning and a station in 
Michigan detected no clicks, truncating, or other aberrations.

We'll see.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV






On 6/14/2019 10:24 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
With stations running 100 watts or less and reasonable antenna separation, I've found no 
reason for a Receiver Input Protector. Although, it might be a good idea to circumvent a 
"screw up" by an operator.   I've seen some mighty strange things done by 
knowledgeable hams at Field Day.

73

Bob, K4TAX



On 6/14/2019 10:07 AM, KENT TRIMBLE wrote:
Have any of you used Ameritron's "Receiver Input Protector" model TRP-150?  I 
find no reviews on eHam.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV


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