RE: Importance of EMC

[Pettit, Ghery]

Thomas,

EMC can be both a regulatory and a quality issue.  Many countries place
limits on the electromagnetic emissions from various devices and a few also
legislate immunity requirements (EU, Korea and China come to mind).
Multimedia devices would clearly have such requirements.  Audio equipment
may not (at least not in Brazil), but consideration of EMC issues should be
made even without government regulations.

If audio equipment is designed without regard to EMC (and much is) the user
may suffer interference from nearby radio transmitters and other sourced of
EMI.  I have had telephone instruments receive AM broadcast stations (as
well as my ham station).  Poor design on the part of the telephone
manufacturer.  A simple filter on the phone line cured the problem.  I have
also had stereo systems receive nearby mobile radio transmissions.  Again, a
poor design on the part of the stereo equipment.  It didn't have a receiver
built in and obviously should not have been functioning as a receiver.  This
can be a serious customer satisfaction issue.  Designing and testing
products for immunity can help with this matter.

Good luck in dealing with the folks who control the budget.  If you have
specific questions about various tests and what equipment or facilities you
might need, there are plenty of people on this list who will be able to
help.

Ghery S. Pettit, NCE


-Original Message-
From: tkrze...@genius.org.br [mailto:tkrze...@genius.org.br]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:16 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Importance of EMC



Hi All,

I would like to have some of your experiences to help me to explain to my
boss what is the importance of EMC and why it is interresting to develop an
EMC/EMI area...
To explain a little, we are a small R&D institute of technology and
consumer electronics (principally Audio and multimedia) for the Brasilian
market...
I work here for one year (I'm french and come from a different horizon:
Telecom and RF) and try to develop a small EMC area to improve the quality
of our projects... For 2003 I would like to buy some stufs to start a
prototype/pre-qualification lab and I made a budjet... Now I need to
explain and convince the liders !!!

Can I have some advices ?

Thanks a lot...

Thomas K.




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Re: FW: Bendable circuit boards

[Hans Mellberg]

Flexible circuit boards have been used in standard and hi-rel circuits 
successfully
for at least two decades or more!

--- Brodie Pedersen  wrote:
> 
> 
> I have a design team looking at using a bendable circuit board in order
> for a certain fit in a plastic housing.  Do any of you have information
> on reliablity, pitfalls, experiences with this type of circuit board
> implementation. Your help and suggestion will be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Brodie Pedersen
> QA Engineer 
> Nonin Medical Inc.
> 
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
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=
Best Regards
Hans T. Mellberg, Consultant
Regulatory, High Speed, EMC and Power Design Services
By the Pacific Coast next to Silicon Valley, Santa Cruz, CA, USA
office:831-454-9450, cell:408-507-9694, fax:831-454-0755
BSEE, NARTE Certified Engineer, IEEE, AIAA, dB
2004 IEEE EMC Symposium Program Chair, IEEE EMC SCV ADCOM

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Re: High Voltage Relay HELP!!!

[Scott Lacey]

Brian,
There are a couple of things that you might try:

1) Modify your PCB outline to rout a channel between the contacts and coil. 
This 
would have to be cut completely through the PCB board, so any internal planes 
would need to have clearance added first. I have seen this done successfully 
with 
opto-isolators that did not meet creepage spacings.

2) Use a high-voltage epoxy compound to add insulation around the relay pins. 
This 
reduces the potential at the PCB surface. It would have to be added post-solder.

Another less pleasant option is to add extension leads to the relay, insulate 
with high-
voltage epoxy, and then bend the exposed portion of the leads to match the PCB 
holes which would have the correct spacing. The main advantage over method 2 is 
the ease of replacing the relay (no epoxy on the PCB).

I would ask the relay vendors for advice. You cannot be the first customer to 
have 
encountered this issue.

Scott Lacey

On 10 Dec 2002 at 15:33, brian_ku...@leco.com wrote:

> 
> Happy Holidays Group,
> 
> Let me set the scene for you:   
> 
> We have a piece of laboratory equipment that has a 10,000 volt low
> current power supply that puts a high potential onto a small metal
> sample as it is being tested.  When the operator opens a door to
> remove the sample we have to turn off the high voltage to protect the
> operator.
> 
> We have been looking for a High Voltage Relay to do the job without
> luck.  We have found several that are rated for 10,000 volts, but the
> creepage and clearance spacing between the pins don't seem to match
> what the IEC61010-1:2001 standard says.
> 
> If I am reading the standard correctly, the creepage is the big
> problem.  Table 7 calls for a spacing of 40mm on pc cards pollution
> degree 1.  This seems like a lot.  The clearance would be 30.3mm  - 
> 31.6mm according to Table 5.  We have one relay that is rated 10,000
> volts, but it only has 23mm between the contact and the coil pins. 
> How can this be?  Am I looking at something wrong here?  
> 
> I can't find any high voltage relays with any kind of agency
> approvals.  
> 
> 1. Am I figuring out the creepage distance correctly or am I missing
> something?
> 
> 2. If I do have to meet the spacings listed above, does anyone know of
> a good source for a compliant relay?
> 
> 3.  Anyone have tips and suggestions how to minimize spacings in high
> voltage circuits?
> 
> Thanks to all.
> Brian Kunde
> LECO Corp.
> 
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Re: TNV Test Generator

[Ken Javor]

It's bad form to answer a question with a question, but I will ask a very 
simple-minded question: Is the specified test generator anything different
than the ac line (possibly through an isolation transformer) in series with
1200 Ohms?

--
>From: FastWave 
>To: "'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org'" 
>Subject: TNV Test Generator
>Date: Wed, Dec 11, 2002, 2:55 PM
>

>
> Telecom - Product Safety Question:
>
> I am looking for a "test generator" per clause 2.3.5 of IEC60950 = "a test
> generator is used that provides 120 V +/- 2 VAC at 50 or 60 Hz and has an
> internal impedance of 1200 ohms +/- 2%". Anybody have any input on a source
> to buy or a method to build such a device. It's the internal impedance
> aspect that's throwing me for a loop.
>
> Thanks for your time and input,
>
> Bill Bisenius
> ED&D
> bi...@productsafet.com 
> North Carolina - the natural disaster capital of the U.S. - last week's ice
> storm left us all without power, heat, or phones for several days (during 30
> degree weather). Come to North Carolina and have your house smashed by
> falling ice covered trees (or hurricanes in the summer).
>
>
>
> ---
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AV terminations

[Dan Pierce]

Dear Group, 

I was wondering what the typical load termination to use for audio and video
RCA connections on a typical receiver, both in and out. 

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Receiver Requirements in ETSI 300 220

[Kirk Thomas]

In the title of ETSI 300 220 it states "Harmonized EN covering essential
requirements under article 3.2 of the R&TTE Directive".  Article 3.2 is only
concerned that the device effectively uses the allocated spectrum, but
within the standard it has a battery of receiver immunity tests.  I thought
that by completing ETSI 300 683 Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) standard
for short range devices that we had shown compliance with the requirements
of the EMC Directive.

My question is this;  Do I show compliance with the EMC Directive and the
R&TTE Directive by complying to ETSI 300 683 and ETSI 300 220 (less the
Receiver tests of ETSI 300 220)?

Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

Kirk Thomas


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Re: Location of CE DoCs - electronic copies

[John Woodgate]

I read in !emc-pstc that Chris Maxwell  wrote
(in <83d652574e7af740873674f9fc12dbaaf7e...@utexh1w2.gnnettest.com>)
about 'Location of CE DoCs - electronic copies' on Wed, 11 Dec 2002:

>Of course, these are just my opinions and interpretations.  I haven't had to 
>tell them to a judge (does CENELEC have a judge?); but I believe that the 
>reasoning is sound.

Well it isn't CENELEC's responsibility but the Commission's, which is
liable to be judge, jury and prosecuting counsel, if your MEP doesn't
kick up a fuss. 
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

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RE: Location of CE DoCs - electronic copies

[richwoods]

Has anyone on this list ever had an authority ask to see a DoC or TCF after
the product was placed on the market? We have had two products audit tested,
but no one has ever asked for these documents.

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International

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TNV Test Generator

[FastWave]

Telecom - Product Safety Question:

I am looking for a "test generator" per clause 2.3.5 of IEC60950 = "a test
generator is used that provides 120 V +/- 2 VAC at 50 or 60 Hz and has an
internal impedance of 1200 ohms +/- 2%". Anybody have any input on a source
to buy or a method to build such a device. It's the internal impedance
aspect that's throwing me for a loop.

Thanks for your time and input,

Bill Bisenius
ED&D
bi...@productsafet.com  
North Carolina - the natural disaster capital of the U.S. - last week's ice
storm left us all without power, heat, or phones for several days (during 30
degree weather). Come to North Carolina and have your house smashed by
falling ice covered trees (or hurricanes in the summer).



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RE: Receiver Requirements in ETSI 300 220

[richwoods]

EN 300220-1 contains the test requirements, but its reference is not
published in the OJ. EN 300220-3 is published in the OJ and lists the
sections of EN300220-1 that apply in order to comply with the essential
requirements concerning article 3.2 of the RTTE Directive. As you noted, it
lists requirements for the receiver as well as the transmitter. If you
declare compliance using the standard, you will have to comply with all
requirements of EN 300220-3. I once used the TCF route and the Notified Body
told me that the blocking requirement was not an essential requirement. Go
figure. Oh, and, of course you also have to comply with EN 300 683 or its
replacement, EN 301489-1 and EN 301489-3.


Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International


-Original Message-
From: Kirk Thomas [mailto:k...@cclab.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 1:25 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Receiver Requirements in ETSI 300 220



In the title of ETSI 300 220 it states "Harmonized EN covering essential
requirements under article 3.2 of the R&TTE Directive".  Article 3.2 is only
concerned that the device effectively uses the allocated spectrum, but
within the standard it has a battery of receiver immunity tests.  I thought
that by completing ETSI 300 683 Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) standard
for short range devices that we had shown compliance with the requirements
of the EMC Directive.

My question is this;  Do I show compliance with the EMC Directive and the
R&TTE Directive by complying to ETSI 300 683 and ETSI 300 220 (less the
Receiver tests of ETSI 300 220)?

Your comments would be greatly appreciated.

Kirk Thomas


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RE: Location of CE DoCs - electronic copies

[Gary McInturff]

Does electronic storage of the documents make any difference? The DoC, 
the test reports, BOM's, drawings and Design verification tests are all stored 
electronically and can be dumped from any printer in the world. Obviously, they 
would have electronic signatures.
Gary


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RE: Location of CE DoCs - electronic copies

[SOUNDSURFR]

The old requirement that copies of technical files be maintained at some 
physical location within the EU is essentially unenforceable.  As John Woodgate 
pointed out, newer Directives do not incorporate that wording.

To my knowledge, the only entities in the EU that have the legal authority to 
demand copies of the technical files are the Competent Authorities in each 
member state.  It is unlikely that such a demand would be made unless a serious 
and well-documented complaint were launched regarding the non-compliance of the 
product in question. (Even in that situation, only those segments of the 
technical documentation that are relevant to the complaint can be requested.) 

We advise our clients that in the event of such an inquiry, the technical 
documentation needs to be furnished to the competent authority in a timely 
manner - preferably 48 to 72 hours from receipt of the request.

I agree that electronic files are the most viable means of ensuring that the 
appropriate documentation can be transmitted quickly if necessary.  

And who's to say it's not in the EU if it's in cyberspace? ;-)

Regarding the Declaration of Conformity being shipped with the product - it's 
always a good idea, but under most Directives, it's not a requirement.  The 
Machinery Directive is one that does require it, but the LVD and EMC Directives 
do not.



Greg Galluccio
www.productapprovals.com

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FW: Bendable circuit boards

[Brodie Pedersen]

I have a design team looking at using a bendable circuit board in order
for a certain fit in a plastic housing.  Do any of you have information
on reliablity, pitfalls, experiences with this type of circuit board
implementation. Your help and suggestion will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance

Brodie Pedersen
QA Engineer 
Nonin Medical Inc.

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Re: Location of CE DoCs - electronic copies

[John Woodgate]

I read in !emc-pstc that Gary McInturff  wrote (in <917063bab0ddb043af5faa73c7a835d40ac...@windlord.wwp.com
>) about 'Location of CE DoCs - electronic copies' on Wed, 11 Dec 2002:
>
>   Does electronic storage of the documents make any difference? The DoC, 
>the test reports, BOM's, drawings and Design verification tests are all stored 
>electronically and can be dumped from any printer in the world. Obviously, 
>they 
>would have electronic signatures.

My understanding is that the authorities normally require hard copy, but
provided you can produce that, how you store the data is up to you.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

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RE: ITE / AV Equipment with Ethernet

[Juhasz, John (IndSys, GE Interlogix)]

Dan,

You would want to terminate the line with a test set.
Putting just a discrete termination on the line is
not valid. You should be testing the product with
data transfer in progress. If you don't have one,
rent a data test set.
Your data drivers/receivers/muxers would be exercised
properly and you'll have emissions more representative
of actual field installation, and for immunity
you'll be able to capture data corrpution - which is the
measure of your product's immunity.

John A. Juhasz

GE Interlogix
Fiber Options Div.
Bohemia, NY 


-Original Message-
From: Dan Pierce [mailto:dpie...@escient.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 12:18 PM
To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org'
Subject: ITE / AV Equipment with Ethernet



Dear Group,

I currently have a device that is a cross between ITE and AV (a typical set
top box) which has Ethernet.  I am wondering how to terminate the line for
testing both emissions and immunity.  In addition, should I have this
Ethernet setting so that I transmit data in a 1 meter loop back cable?
Would a connection to a hub with no other lines to/from be legal?

Any responses are greatly appreciated.

Sincerely, 

-Dan Pierce

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RE: Location of CE DoCs - electronic copies

[Chris Maxwell]

Gary,

I'm with you on this one.  I consider electronic availability to be equal to, 
if not superior to, having the documents on "European Soil".   

My feeling is that: as long as the documentation explains what the CE mark 
means; and points the user in the right direction for getting the files; then 
files can be emailed at a moment's notice; and the reader is guaranteed to get 
the latest revision as stored in our Document Control system.  

I don't think that you can make the equivalent statements about any method of 
keeping paper copies at any location.

Of course, these are just my opinions and interpretations.  I haven't had to 
tell them to a judge (does CENELEC have a judge?); but I believe that the 
reasoning is sound.

Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division
email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024

NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA
web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | 




> -Original Message-
> From: Gary McInturff [SMTP:gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:38 AM
> To:   Nick Williams; Stephen Irving
> Cc:   emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> Subject:  RE: Location of CE DoCs - electronic copies
> 
> 
>   Does electronic storage of the documents make any difference? The DoC, 
> the test reports, BOM's, drawings and Design verification tests are all 
> stored electronically and can be dumped from any printer in the world. 
> Obviously, they would have electronic signatures.
>   Gary
>   
> 
> 

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RE: Location of CE DoCs

[Hans Mellberg]

But if you analyze the grammatical construction of :

"and he or his authorised representative established within the Community"

That can be interpreted as follows:

"he" is established within the community and in that absense, "his authorized
representative" is established within the community.

Therefore it can be implied defacto that either the manufacturer OR the
representative reside within the EU and kkep the information within the EU.

--- Richard Hughes  wrote:
> Nick,
> 
> Unfortunately, regarding the last para, you have not followed your own good
> advice of checking with the specific EU Directives concerned.  
> 
> Annex IV section 2 of the LVD requires:
> 
> "The manufacturer must establish the technical documentation described in
> point 3 and he or his authorized representative established within the
> Community must keep it on Community territory at the disposal of the
> relevant national authorities for inspection purposes for a period ending at
> least 10 years after the last product has been manufactured."
> 
> Not surprisingly, the Commission's Guide to the LVD (2001 edition) states: 
> 
> "This technical documentation must be kept within the Community."
> 
> 
> On the other hand, the R&TTED does not state that the technical
> documentation must be kept within the Community.  The corresponding para to
> the above (Annex II section 2) requires that: 
> 
> "The manufacturer must establish the technical documentation described in
> point 4 and he or his authorised representative established within the
> Community must keep it for a period ending at least 10 years after the last
> product has been manufactured at the disposal of the relevant national
> authorities of any Member State for inspection purposes."
> 
> Note that the part requiring that the technical documentation be kept "on
> Community territory" is absent.
> 
> 
> Equally, the LVD and the R&TTED have different requirements regarding the
> provision of a DoC.  See Article 6(3) of the R&TTED.
> 
> 
> Own opinions as always,
> 
> Richard Hughes
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Nick Williams [mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk]
> Sent: 11 December 2002 00:12
> To: Stephen Irving
> Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> Subject: Re: Location of CE DoCs
> 
> These are indeed rumors. Different Directives have different 
> requirements in this regard, and although the general rules of thumb 
> that documentation should be kept in the EU and a copy of the DofC 
> should be supplied with the product provide a good working basis for 
> compliance with the Directives, they are by no means mandatory for 
> all equipment under all New Approach directives. If it really matters 
> to you, you should read the text of the specific directives which 
> apply to your products in order to find out what is required.
> 
> As examples, neither the LVD nor the EMC Directives require a copy of 
> the EC declaration to be shipped with the product, although the 
> Machinery Directive does. None of these three directives require the 
> appointment of an Authorised Representative (only the medical devices 
> directives do this) and ergo there is no requirement for the 
> technical file to be 'kept on EU soil'.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Nick.
> 
> 


=
Best Regards
Hans T. Mellberg, Consultant
Regulatory, High Speed, EMC and Power Design Services
By the Pacific Coast next to Silicon Valley, Santa Cruz, CA, USA
office:831-454-9450, cell:408-507-9694, fax:831-454-0755
BSEE, NARTE Certified Engineer, IEEE, AIAA, dB
2004 IEEE EMC Symposium Program Chair, IEEE EMC SCV ADCOM

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ITE / AV Equipment with Ethernet

[Dan Pierce]

Dear Group,

I currently have a device that is a cross between ITE and AV (a typical set
top box) which has Ethernet.  I am wondering how to terminate the line for
testing both emissions and immunity.  In addition, should I have this
Ethernet setting so that I transmit data in a 1 meter loop back cable?
Would a connection to a hub with no other lines to/from be legal?

Any responses are greatly appreciated.

Sincerely, 

-Dan Pierce

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RE: Can 2.4GHz wireless phones be marketed in EU?

[richwoods]

See CEPT Recommendation 70-03 which can be found at 
http://www.ero.dk/

Richard Woods
Sensormatic Electronics
Tyco International


-Original Message-
From: Hans Mellberg [mailto:emcconsult...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 4:46 PM
To: emc-pstc
Subject: Can 2.4GHz wireless phones be marketed in EU?



Question,
Can 2.4GHz wireless phones be marketed in EU as SRD? Is there a chart or
document
similar to FCC's part 2.106? for frequency allocations in EU?

Thanks in advance



=
Best Regards
Hans T. Mellberg, Consultant
Regulatory, High Speed, EMC and Power Design Services
By the Pacific Coast next to Silicon Valley, Santa Cruz, CA, USA
office:831-454-9450, cell:408-507-9694, fax:831-454-0755
BSEE, NARTE Certified Engineer, IEEE, AIAA, dB
2004 IEEE EMC Symposium Program Chair, IEEE EMC SCV ADCOM

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RE: Location of CE DoCs

[Richard Hughes]

Nick,

Unfortunately, regarding the last para, you have not followed your own good
advice of checking with the specific EU Directives concerned.  

Annex IV section 2 of the LVD requires:

"The manufacturer must establish the technical documentation described in
point 3 and he or his authorized representative established within the
Community must keep it on Community territory at the disposal of the
relevant national authorities for inspection purposes for a period ending at
least 10 years after the last product has been manufactured."

Not surprisingly, the Commission's Guide to the LVD (2001 edition) states: 

"This technical documentation must be kept within the Community."


On the other hand, the R&TTED does not state that the technical
documentation must be kept within the Community.  The corresponding para to
the above (Annex II section 2) requires that: 

"The manufacturer must establish the technical documentation described in
point 4 and he or his authorised representative established within the
Community must keep it for a period ending at least 10 years after the last
product has been manufactured at the disposal of the relevant national
authorities of any Member State for inspection purposes."

Note that the part requiring that the technical documentation be kept "on
Community territory" is absent.


Equally, the LVD and the R&TTED have different requirements regarding the
provision of a DoC.  See Article 6(3) of the R&TTED.


Own opinions as always,

Richard Hughes



-Original Message-
From: Nick Williams [mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk]
Sent: 11 December 2002 00:12
To: Stephen Irving
Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: Location of CE DoCs

These are indeed rumors. Different Directives have different 
requirements in this regard, and although the general rules of thumb 
that documentation should be kept in the EU and a copy of the DofC 
should be supplied with the product provide a good working basis for 
compliance with the Directives, they are by no means mandatory for 
all equipment under all New Approach directives. If it really matters 
to you, you should read the text of the specific directives which 
apply to your products in order to find out what is required.

As examples, neither the LVD nor the EMC Directives require a copy of 
the EC declaration to be shipped with the product, although the 
Machinery Directive does. None of these three directives require the 
appointment of an Authorised Representative (only the medical devices 
directives do this) and ergo there is no requirement for the 
technical file to be 'kept on EU soil'.

Regards

Nick.

RE: Can 2.4GHz wireless phones be marketed in EU?

[david.graham]

Hi Hans,
The closest is CEPT 70-03. You can download it from www.ero.dk (3rd link
down on the right of the home page).
Regards,

Dave Graham.

-Original Message-
From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Hans Mellberg
Sent: 10 December 2002 21:46
To: emc-pstc
Subject: Can 2.4GHz wireless phones be marketed in EU?



Question,
Can 2.4GHz wireless phones be marketed in EU as SRD? Is there a chart or
document
similar to FCC's part 2.106? for frequency allocations in EU?

Thanks in advance



=
Best Regards
Hans T. Mellberg, Consultant
Regulatory, High Speed, EMC and Power Design Services
By the Pacific Coast next to Silicon Valley, Santa Cruz, CA, USA
office:831-454-9450, cell:408-507-9694, fax:831-454-0755
BSEE, NARTE Certified Engineer, IEEE, AIAA, dB
2004 IEEE EMC Symposium Program Chair, IEEE EMC SCV ADCOM

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Re: Location of CE DoCs

[John Woodgate]

I read in !emc-pstc that lcr...@tuvam.com wrote (in <3187EE460C488A458D4
dc186f40edc2101d00...@exchdan.us.tuvworld.com>) about 'Location of CE
DoCs' on Tue, 10 Dec 2002:
>For the Low Voltage Directive the manufactuture must keep the technical 
>documentation on "community territory."  

That's because the Directive is very old. That provision is unlikely to
be enforced in normal circumstances.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

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Re: Location of CE DoCs

[John Woodgate]

I read in !emc-pstc that Stephen Irving  wrote (in
) about 'Location of CE DoCs' on Tue,
10 Dec 2002:
>I know that the DoC and TCF need to be stored somewhere on European soil. 

Where did you get that from? All that is required, AFAIK, is that you
can produce them to a European authority within about 24 hours (some say
72 hours). You could fax them. You could very nearly air-mail hard copy
in 72 hours.
>Beyond this, are there any further requirements for the DoC to be included 
>with the product? Specifically, I am interested in knowing if it is 
>important to include the DoC either with the shipping documentation, in 
> the 
>product instructions, or both.

It should be included with the shipping documentation - it's mainly
addressed to customs officers! You don't have to include it with the
product, but it costs next to nothing to print it in the product manual.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!

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Re: Location of CE DoCs

[Nick Williams]

These are indeed rumors. Different Directives have different 
requirements in this regard, and although the general rules of thumb 
that documentation should be kept in the EU and a copy of the DofC 
should be supplied with the product provide a good working basis for 
compliance with the Directives, they are by no means mandatory for 
all equipment under all New Approach directives. If it really matters 
to you, you should read the text of the specific directives which 
apply to your products in order to find out what is required.


As examples, neither the LVD nor the EMC Directives require a copy of 
the EC declaration to be shipped with the product, although the 
Machinery Directive does. None of these three directives require the 
appointment of an Authorised Representative (only the medical devices 
directives do this) and ergo there is no requirement for the 
technical file to be 'kept on EU soil'.


Regards

Nick.


At 15:38 -0500 10/12/02, Stephen Irving wrote:

Hi everyone!

I have been hearing a few rumors regarding the requirements for the 
location of CE Declarations of Conformity, and I am hoping you can 
help me clear it up.


I know that the DoC and TCF need to be stored somewhere on European 
soil. Beyond this, are there any further requirements for the DoC to 
be included with the product? Specifically, I am interested in 
knowing if it is important to include the DoC either with the 
shipping documentation, in the product instructions, or both.


Thanks,
Steve


Stephen R. Irving
Project Electrical Engineer
Lutron Electronics, Co. Inc.
+1 (610) 282 - 6468
+1 (610) 282 - 7324 [Fax]



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