Standards process
Dear Group Thank you to all those that responded to my post on “IEC and EN standard relationships”. The replies made me realise that as a user of standards, I know very little about the process of producing standards! Can anyone recommend a link or reference where I can learn more about the process of producing IEC and EN standards? Many thanks Stuart Miller http://msgtag.com/?source=ffooter has notified the sender that this message has been received.
IEC and EN standard relationships
Dear group A client located outside the EU has a large number of IEC standards. They would like to determine the differences between their IEC standards and the equivalent EN standards. I was told by BSI that if the BSEN60xxx number is identical to the IEC60xxx number, the standards are the same. The person I spoke to was not aware of a way to get the differences between IEC and BSEN standards, apart from parting with (a lot of) money. However, the BS online website states that BSEN60950-1:2002 is a modified version of IEC60950-1:2001. I guess that the BS standard incorporates UK deviations and removes deviations for other countries, but we’d like to know if there are any other modifications? Thanks in advance Stuart Miller http://msgtag.com/?source=ffooter has notified the sender that this message has been received.
RE: Russian Translation for Battery Disposal Marking
Peter Try this site for Russian translation: http://www.translate.ru/text.asp?lang=en Stuart Miller Ablewisp – compliance engineers From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of peter merguerian Sent: 24 July 2003 01:07 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Russian Translation for Battery Disposal Marking Forum, Can anyone translate the following into Russian? Thanks Warning There is the danger of explosion if the battery is replaced incorrectly. Replace the battery only with the same or equivalent type recommended by the manufacturer. Dispose of used batteries according to the manufacturer's instructions. _ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=10469/*http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
Electric Fence Controllers
Hi I've been asked why electric fence controllers are outside the scope of the LVD. I don't know much about them and assume its because they generate voltages exceeding the LVD upper limit. Is my assumption correct? Many thanks Stuart Miller --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
VDSL for Brazil GPS for U.S
Dear folks, What kind of approval do we need to export VDSL to Brazil and GPS(Global Positioning System) to United States? Thanks! Michelle
China Standards
Greetings All, I have one question about MII CCC standard. For the Switching Hub, which standard will be applied? Thanks in advance. Regards, Michelle Cho
Machinery Directive experts
Can anybody recommend an expert on the EU's Machinery Directive. It can be an individual, consulting firm, test lab, a.n. other. This person needs to be expert in particular in the technical/engineering assessment aspect of the Directive thanks in advance Brian McAuliffe MCA Compliance Consulting Tel: +353.65.6823452 Mobile: +353.87.2352554 email: i...@mcac.ie --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: creepage v breakdown voltage
Peter I agreee with your comment, but, I have seen lots of boards (material group III) pass high pot tests at 1.5kV with only 2 mm creepage on the boards. yet, 950 specifies 2.5mm for basic insulation. This is why I am after some independent experimental test data correlating creepage and dielectric strength, with different board material properties taken into account. I suppose to flip it around, if a board passes the hi-pot for 1 minute with 2 mm creepage (and the fact that it passes the hi-pot, means the clearance must also have been adequate?), why does 60950 look for 2.5mm creepage ??? rgds Brian -Original Message- From: Peter Merguerian [mailto:pmerguer...@itl.co.il] Sent: 15 March 2002 12:00 To: 'MCA Compliance'; Emc-Pstc Post Subject: RE: creepage v breakdown voltage Brian, Your PCB manufacturer should be able to tell you what spacings to keep in order to withstand the test voltages. It all depends on the base material used for the PCB which all have different dielectric strength properties. Remember, the standards reference a minimum creepage distance AND you must still pass the electric strength tests. This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il http://www.i-spec.com -Original Message- From: MCA Compliance [mailto:bally...@iolfree.ie] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 11:54 AM To: Emc-Pstc Post Subject: creepage v breakdown voltage does data exist which correlates creepage distance on a pcb with hi-potential test voltage it should withstand ? for example, I know 60950 sugests a test voltage of 1500Vrms for 1 minute and a creepage of 2.5mm (material group III) for basic insulation. How did they arrive at 2.5 mm ??? Brian email: i...@mcac.ie --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
creepage v breakdown voltage
does data exist which correlates creepage distance on a pcb with hi-potential test voltage it should withstand ? for example, I know 60950 sugests a test voltage of 1500Vrms for 1 minute and a creepage of 2.5mm (material group III) for basic insulation. How did they arrive at 2.5 mm ??? Brian email: i...@mcac.ie --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Reducing Risk of Fire and Electric Shock Hazards at Mains Socket Outlets
not sure of specific standards, but a fault condition test to consider would be - what if the switch failed with its contacts closed (maybe welded together following exposure to high current) ? Brian -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Peter Merguerian Sent: 12 March 2002 10:04 To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: Reducing Risk of Fire and Electric Shock Hazards at Mains Socket Outlets Dear All, For a bi-metallic switch fitted within a socket outlet (outlet receptacle) and which disconnects the power upon sensing of high temperature on the contacts, what would be the applicable N. American and European standards for safety? This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il http://www.i-spec.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
PSE mark
Folks, Could anyone give me some details about PSE mark and the test lab who can give me quote? Any information will be appreciated. Thanks, Michelle
INNOVA Product Service GmbH
Can anyone provide information on this test lab ? Are they part of TUV group ?? contact details thanks Brian McAuliffe email: i...@mcac.ie --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
[URGENT] Need some information about NEBS..
Dear all, I need some help about something called NEBS(Network Equipment Building System). The whole procedure... What exactly the NEBS is and where can I do the testing? How much? How long does it take? Thanks in advance! Michelle
ultrasonics - hazardous acoustic output ?
Does anybody know of safety requirements controlling/regulating ultrasonic ouptut levels from electrostatic transducers ? e.g. the Polaroid Series 7000 operating at 50 kHz (http://www.polaroid-oem.com/products/ultrasonic.htm). I have come across IEC 61157, but form the description of this standard, it seems to only provide guidelines on how and what is declared in product documentation. Is there any regulatory requirement you are aware of ?? Brian MCA email: i...@mcac.ie --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
ul 60950-1
Can aybody advise on the status of UL 60950-1 ? In particular, will claue 7 of the IEC on CATV requirements remain unchanged and what are the DOP and DOW ? Brian McAuliffe MCA --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
60950-1: definiton of HAZARDOUS VOLTAGE SECONDARY CIRCUIT
Clause 7.1 of 60950-1 (at least in the FDIS draft circulated on Jul 6 2001) refers to a HAZARDOUS VOLTAGE SECONDARY CIRCUIT. A definition for this type of circuit is not included in the definitions section. Can anybody help with defining this ? Brian --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL Recognized 24VDC PC Supply
Hi Gary - Even better...you can search on line at www.ul.com Brent -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Gary McInturff Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 1:34 PM To: 'John Chambors'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org.' Subject: RE: UL Recognized 24VDC PC Supply If you have a copy of the UL recognized component directory they have a gazillion companies that have recognized supplies. I am looking at the 2000 edition volume two (CCN QQGQ2)for power supplies used in ITE and it runs from page 845 to 1274. There are different sections for medical equipment and other uses. Its a good place to start hunting. Gary -Original Message- From: John Chambors [mailto:john.chamb...@nematron.com] Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 9:38 AM To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org.' Subject: UL Recognized 24VDC PC Supply Does anyone know of a good source for a UL Recognized 24VDC PC Supply? It's not too difficult to find 24VDC input power supplies, but finding one that is UL recognized is another matter. I'm trying to get a product certified for use in hazardous locations. Thanks, John Chambors Senior Engineer Nematron Corp. Tel: (734) 214-2021 Fax: (734) 994-8408 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: BCIQ/BSMI Product Certification
Hi George/All - Thank you for your responses. All have concurred that BSMI is only imposing EMC requirements on our types of products. On a side note, I have noticed that they are imposing safety requirements on some IEC60065 products and on Electrostatic photocopying apparatus. Thanks again for your assistance. Regards, Brent Taira -Original Message- From: geor...@lexmark.com [mailto:geor...@lexmark.com] Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 6:49 AM To: complia...@eoscorp.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: BCIQ/BSMI Product Certification Brent, The Taiwan BCIQ terminology was changed last year to BSMI. It is my understanding that at the present time BSMI only imposes an EMC requirement and certification on ITE. We market adapter powered printers there (120V) and have not been required to obtain any safety certifications, although BSMI is working toward a safety certification process. In your case, the Taiwan EMC certification number and mark would probably go on the main ITE product, as measured using the planned AC adapter. George Alspaugh Lexmark International Inc. compliance%eoscorp@interlock.lexmark.com on 06/07/2000 08:24:32 PM Please respond to compliance%eoscorp@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: BCIQ/BSMI Product Certification Hello Group, We are currently in discussion with one of our OEMs who is insisting that we obtain BSMI/BCIQ Safety Certification on our product. We are manufacturing an AC/DC Adapter for an end product that is a typical ITE product (with a processor and I/O ports). After reviewing the List of Electronic Products that are Subject to Measures Governing Registration of Product Certification I could not locate any reference to a Safety Standard for potential categories for our equipment (8471.41.00.00). Therefore, I do not believe that the safety certification is required. On the other hand, I am aware that regulations are changing on a daily basis. If the Safety Certification IS required, I would also appreciate a recommendation on test laboratories/agents that can assist in the process. Thank you very much for your kind assistance, Brent Taira Eos Corporation --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
BCIQ/BSMI Product Certification
Hello Group, We are currently in discussion with one of our OEMs who is insisting that we obtain BSMI/BCIQ Safety Certification on our product. We are manufacturing an AC/DC Adapter for an end product that is a typical ITE product (with a processor and I/O ports). After reviewing the List of Electronic Products that are Subject to Measures Governing Registration of Product Certification I could not locate any reference to a Safety Standard for potential categories for our equipment (8471.41.00.00). Therefore, I do not believe that the safety certification is required. On the other hand, I am aware that regulations are changing on a daily basis. If the Safety Certification IS required, I would also appreciate a recommendation on test laboratories/agents that can assist in the process. Thank you very much for your kind assistance, Brent Taira Eos Corporation --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Actual requirement or money making scheme?
Hi All, Thank you all for your expert advice as usual. I feel significantly better now that I know that we are all being subjected to the same requirements. Brief Summary: 1. The CB Scheme requires all its participant labs and agencies to update their CB reports every 3 years, change or no change. 2. Original CB Test Reports can be subjected to three (3) amendments only, after which a new CB Test Report and associate CB Test Certificate shall be issued. 3. Corrections due to misprint, changes of names or addresses are not considered to be amendments. Best Regards, Brent Taira -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Ned Devine Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 6:57 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Actual requirement or money making scheme? Hi, We discussed this at the US National Committee of the IECEE on 19 April 2000. There is some confusion on the interpretation of this requirement. It was explained, that an amendment is NOT a correction or a change to a part number. An amendment is when new data/pages are added. Using Brent's example of adding an alternate plastic. If no tests are necessary, then it would not be an amendment. If there was testing, then it would be an amendment. Ned Devine Entela, Inc. Program Manager III Phone 616 248 9671 Fax 616 574 9752 e-mail ndev...@entela.com -Original Message- From: Matthew Meehan [mailto:mee...@i-kk.co.jp] Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 1:35 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Actual requirement or money making scheme? Hi Brent, Subject: Actual requirement or money making scheme? Definitely an actual requirement. (about the rest of your subject: No comment). Decision: Original CB Test Reports can be subjected to three (3) amendments only, after which a new CB Test Report and associate CB Test Certificate shall be issued. Explanatory notes: Experience shows that by making more than three amendments to a CB Test Report the technical features of the initial product becomes such that the tracking against the Master File can be lost. To get your very own copy go to: http://www2.imq.it/ctldecisions/collect.htm choose sheet 291 (bottom right) Regards, Matt Subject: Actual requirement or money making scheme? Hello wise colleagues - Just recently, we have decided to add some alternate components to one of our CB Reports and was informed by a particular agency that we needed to have a new CB Report issued since we already have 3 updates to the existing report. In the past, we were able to add an alternate plastic to the CB report and just pay for an addendum (few thousand...I know, I am already getting ripped off). But, now to add an alternate component and pay for a full CB Report and Certificate?! That does not make sense. After talking to the project engineer, he indicated that this is the direction of his organization and this interpretation will be implemented across the board with all member agencies. We only have a few products with few changes. I would hate to work for a computer manufacturer who changes the disk drive manufacturer and model numbers like it was last month's model. Oh yeah, it was last month's model. All I know is that this change in policy will push me well over budget this year. Without turning this into a bashing session of any particular agency, can anyone direct me to an agency that has a more relaxed interpretation of the CB Update requirement? Thank you very much for your time and your expert advice. Best Regards, Brent Taira --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the
Actual requirement or money making scheme?
Hello wise colleagues - Just recently, we have decided to add some alternate components to one of our CB Reports and was informed by a particular agency that we needed to have a new CB Report issued since we already have 3 updates to the existing report. In the past, we were able to add an alternate plastic to the CB report and just pay for an addendum (few thousand...I know, I am already getting ripped off). But, now to add an alternate component and pay for a full CB Report and Certificate?! That does not make sense. After talking to the project engineer, he indicated that this is the direction of his organization and this interpretation will be implemented across the board with all member agencies. We only have a few products with few changes. I would hate to work for a computer manufacturer who changes the disk drive manufacturer and model numbers like it was last month's model. Oh yeah, it was last month's model. All I know is that this change in policy will push me well over budget this year. Without turning this into a bashing session of any particular agency, can anyone direct me to an agency that has a more relaxed interpretation of the CB Update requirement? Thank you very much for your time and your expert advice. Best Regards, Brent Taira --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
IEC601 - Spacings Requirements
All - Is anyone aware of a revision to IEC601 that would affect the creepage and clearance distance requirements? Any details or history would be kindly appreciated. Best Regards, Brent Taira --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Certification School
All - There is a Product Safety School...It goes by the name of Underwriters Laboratories in the United States. It is a two to three year apprenticeship following a basic BS in Engineering. The school offers training seminars about 1-2 times a month during the first two years and private sessions with standards experts. The advanced student is offered an opportunity to work on special projects or standards development to enhance their knowledge. On one hand, I am joking, but there may be some truth in the matter. I know that in the past, UL's would train the industry by hiring fresh college graduates (or war veterans). They would then train them in the concepts of safety and then allow/force them to leave (by offering sub-standard wages for the level of experience). No, I did not make this up. It came from a book that I had read 4-5 years ago. It was written by one of the former UL presidents (Baron Whitaker?). Brent Taira -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of sbarr...@icomply.com Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 6:14 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Certification School Years ago when the Product Safety Society was petitioning the IEEE for Society status, the subject of Safety Professional Certification was discussed. It was assumed that our alliance with the IEEE would enhance this move. Well, 15 years later, we are still petitioning the IEEE for society status and discussing certification for professionals. In order to achieve these goals, product safety professionals from all disciplines need to talk to the various colleges, at the community level as well as 4 year ones. I have found with talking to professors that they are in favor of Safety and EMC professionals coming in to give seminars and short classes. This needs to be better organized and a good video or face to face presentation prepared, so that each working group/ area can work with the local educational establishments to build an appreciation of the precepts of our chosen field. It may take a long time before classes are actually given (may give consultants something to do when they retire?), but if we don't start nothing will happen. My 2 cents because I don't really think The IEEE has given us much over the years (I haven't changed my mind Rich), and if there is going to be value in the alliance, then this would be the place to start. Scott Barrows --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
IEC 60167
Hi All - EN60065 specifies a specimen of material, as specified in IEC60167, clause 9 to be subjected to a humidity test. Can anyone fill me in on the details of this clause? Thank you in advance for your assistance, Brent Taira Eos Corporation --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: CB
All, We have used the CB Scheme very successfully to obtain numerous agency approvals. The scheme works very well from the product safety side. Due to the introduction of new EMC requirements throughout the world, we are paying for multiple EMI/EMC tests as part of our approval process. 1. Are there any plans to develop a CB Scheme type approval for EMC Testing? 2. If not, which laboratories have the most MRAs in place for EMC Testing? I suspect Nemko, followed closely by some private EMI test sites (IBM, Compaq, Dell, etc.). 3. Are there any laboratories which have MRAs in place for the following countries (approval bodies within the country): a. Poland b. Czechoslovakia c. Brazil (when safety and EMC become manadatory) d. Norway e. Russia f. Slovenia g. China h. Japan i. Korea j. Taiwan I currently believe that these countries require EMC Certification by an agency which is either located within their country or accredited by their approval body. If I have left out any other countries, please do not hesitate to correct my list. Thank you very much for your time, Brent Taira Eos Corporation -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of geor...@lexmark.com Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 9:01 AM To: pmerguer...@itl.co.il Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: CB Peter, Go to www.cbscheme.org . This is as good a site as any. Basically this is a global reciprocity scheme. Any authorized Certification Body (CB) for a country agress to accept the CB test Report issued by another CB, unless of course they believe it contains an error. The many countries (30+) and CBs are listed at this site. SII is the CB for Israel. The CB Report is not an automatic license for any country, but will normally result in a country license without further testing. The trick is to make sure the issuing body tests to IEC 60950 plus all listed country differences. This avoids additional testing for things like the Australia dc ground current limitation. George Alspaugh pmerguerian%itl.co...@interlock.lexmark.com on 03/02/2000 11:34:28 AM Please respond to pmerguerian%itl.co...@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: CB Dear All, Does anyone know a good sight where I can have a good explanation of the CB Scheme? I checked the CB in safetylink and it does not give a good explanation (advantages, etc.). Anyone knows of any other site on the internet? Peter Merguerian Managing Director Product Testing Division I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. Hacharoshet 26, POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: 972-3-5339022 Fax: 972-3-5339019 e-mail: pmerguer...@itl.co.il website: http://www.itl.co.il --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
EN60065 requirements
To: Audio safety aficionados Reference: EN60065:1993 and similar IEC, UL, and CSA standards Just a few thinks to chew on. I encourage a response from everyone, especially those involved or associated with European or North American safety agencies. 1. Clause 4.1.5 includes a description of a band pass circuit for the input signal for audio amplifier temperature testing. Assuming the RC time constant (tau) is defined (I think) as 1/(3db frequency corner), clause 4.1.5 describes a band pass with a low frequency corner at 5 microseconds, or 200 kHz, and a high frequency corner at 250 microseconds, or 4 kHz. Not much of a band pass, and clearly (If one refers to the calculation shown in fig. 2a) there is a typo and the clause 4.1.5 text should read 5 milliseconds rather than 5 microseconds. Keeping this in mind, clause 4.1.5 text describes a 12dB per octave (double pass) band pass with 3dB points at 200 Hz and 4 kHz. This is not what is shown in fig. 2b of the standard. First of all, the response curve shown in fig. 2b is centered around approx. 180 Hz. Second, the 3dB points are at approx. 40Hz (low) and 550 Hz (high). In our lab, for the sake of simplicity, we perform audio testing by injecting white noise from a CD player into a graphic equalizer, adjusting the EQ bands at flat response for frequencies 200Hz - 4kHz, and -12dB for other frequencies. Comments? 2. Clause 4.2.6 describes loading the amplifier to 1/8 maximum power, using the signal described in 4.1.5. Assuming max power is determined by finding the point where there is an increase in THD at clipping. How does one accurately determine this point with a white-noise signal input? Are there THD meters that can do this, and if so, how much do they cost? (sorry for my ignorance here). Also, since the THD of white noise would fluctuate (since white noise is random), at what point would one determine that clipping had been reached? In our lab, the clipping level is determined by amplifying a 1kHz sinusoidal signal and looking for clipping on an oscilloscope. The input voltage to the amplifier is set at RATED (not 1.06 times rated). If it is possible to measure THD of white noise, I am guessing that clipping (say, defined as THD10%) would come at a lower output power level than clipping of a sinusoid, due to the random nature of the white noise - causing peaks that would clip as the output signal approaches the DC bus rails. Comments? 3. Clause 4.3.1 states that as a fault condition, one shorts across creepage and clearance that is less than basic insulation (curve A). Should that not say to short across creepage and clearance that is less than double/reinforced insulation (curve B)? Otherwise, one could have basic insulation creepage (say 3.0 mm) plus 1 micron, and since only the basic insulation is shorted, there remains 1 micron of insulation. While the 1 micron distance would not provide supplementary insulation, I think that it is appropriate that any insulation that is less than double/reinforced can be considered shorted as a fault condition. Looking forward to your responses, Jeffrey Gray Product safety lab manager, Compliance West
Re: Current generated by 12V in human body
Further to Tony's remarks, I also worked on swimming pool fixtures at UL, and I remember that a research paper on the subject of shock currents' effects from broken swimming pool lamps on immersed subjects is (was) available from UL Pubs. The study was based on actual testing of people in a swimming pool. I am sorry I do not remember the title, but if it is still available, it may be helpful. Jeff Lind At 04:14 PM 6/18/96 PDT, Tony Fredriksson wrote: I worked for a while with underwater low voltage lighting @ UL. There were some experiments performed which showed that as little as 2V, 60 Hz across a person's submerged head could cause some rather severe symptoms, albeit not death. I beleive that UL is a good source for research data in this area. As all of these good responses suggest, this is not an area for casual experimentation or assumption. Regards, tony_fredriks...@netpower.com
Re: hi pot testing
Richard, I am not familiar with prEN50116 either. However I am confident that with few exceptions UL and CSA procedure holders will find that hipot testing is required. UL controls the hipot tester by manufacturer and model in an Appendix located at the front of each Volume of the procedure. Why they put an Appendix at the front is another question I can't address. Most EN standards do not have production line hipot requirements; however most holders of TUV licenses have no doubt been informed of production hipot and high current ground continuity testing requirements during their first inspection. NEMKO also has internal requirements requiring production hipot and high current ground tests on many types of products. Their requirements state they will become superceded upon adoption of harmonized CENELEC test requirements, which hopefully is what prEN50116 will be. As far as production line test requirements for holders of CE marking self declaration documents, who knows? As you, I await the group's reception of this note with bated breath. Jeff Lind Compliance West Recently I have seen some questions in this group regarding hi-pot testing and IEC1010 and prEN50116. I am not familiar with prEN50116 (perhaps someone can enlighten me about that), but I am familiar with IEC1010 and hi-pot testing. In amendment 2 to IEC1010 Annex K changes from Informative to Normative (becomes required). This Annex describes the routine manufacturing line testing for products which includes hi-pot testing. I am sure that this will be added to the harmonized equivalents as well, ANSI/ISA S82.01, CSA 1010.1, EN61010-1, and UL3111-1. Also, I believe that hi-pot testing is required by UL as well as CSA in the majority of their electronic product categories. It may be in the Section General or in an Appendix rather than in the Section which describes the product, but I feel sure that UL believes that it is required. It would also surprise me if organizations like VDE and TUV don't also feel that hi-pot testing is a requirement. I believe that we would be doing hi-pot testing at this company whether it was required by the standard or not, because we feel it is a good thing to do. If my understandings here are not accurate, I am confident that someone will now let me know. Richard Payne Tektronix, Inc. richard.pa...@tek.com
re: Dumb Question
Gene and Vic, Thanks for letting everyone know about notified body certification. A couple of points that I think are important: 1. If a notified body is contacted for CE marking approval, notified bodies will judge ONE serial number for compliance. There is nothing stating that the notified body is taking any responsibility for any PRODUCTION units. Also, it goes without saying that the mfr still signs the DofC in this case. 2. I further understand that it is not possible to obtain a GS Mark if any safety critical item has a CE marking only. The safety critical items have to have safety markings in kind. Jeff Lind Compliance West Vic, Great observation and the simple answer is, under self-declaration only, there isn't much more for protection. And you are right, the people you deal with will not think like you. It is still possible to add certification on top of your self-declaration. When anyone asks, Why would I do that? your questions points to one reason. I realize this mail may seem like an advertisement for all certification bodies but the plain fact is, the service of certification and the needs that drive it, are still present in a self-declaration environment. It's just a question of whether you want to add volunatry certification or not. Gene Panger TUV Product Service - Original Text From Victor L. Boersma 102126@compuserve.com, on 27-4-96 8:14 PM: To: EMC-PSTC emc-p...@ieee.org In the grey past, we obtained certification/listing from our friendly certification houses. If we thought that something was wrong with the application of an old standard to a new product, we would have a heart-to-heart talk with our certification organization. If we had a good, solid and valid argument, chances were that our certification organization would agree and certify us to the spirit of the standard. In addition, it was likely that our certification organization would propose changes to the standard, to rectify the anomaly. In the brave new world of Declaration of Conformity, the only time you have to explain yourself is, when you get caught. The question will be whether the regulatory police will consist of intelligent people who think like you, or will they be dummies who think unlike you ? If they think unlike you, your organization may be in for extraordinarily expensive times, where the fact that they don't have you on the payroll any longer, will not offset the costs. Question: How are we going to best protect our owners and ourselves in this new environment Ciao, Vic Boersma
