Re: South Africa and SRD
Hi Kim, The organization that allegedly controls the radio spectrum is SATRA (http://satra.gov.za/). Their website doesn't appear to be working at the moment. Regards Doug Kim Boll Jensen kimb...@post7.tele.dk@world.std.com on 11/21/2002 03:38:54 PM Please respond to Kim Boll Jensen kimb...@post7.tele.dk Sent by: treg-appro...@world.std.com To: EMC-PSTC emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org, treg t...@world.std.com cc: Subject: South Africa and SRD Hi all Does South Africa require approval of short range devices e.g.. Bluetooth. As fare as I can tell they require conformity to EU, US or Canadian requirements and have approved a lot of world wide accreditation bodies. But what is the actual national requirements, I can't find them at any national web. Best regards, Kim Boll Jensen Bolls Raadgivning Denmark --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Official Languages of Countries, slightly off topic
The CIA world fact book is kind of interesting and shows some really obscure places and makes for an interesting geography lesson. If you want to get away from the crowds, Bouvet Island this is the ideal vaction spot, 1600km SW of CapeTown. (the only people I know who are likely to go there are a few of my fellow radio amatuers). I almost went there with South African DXpedition team many years back. http://www.dxer.org/countries/bouvet/bouvet.html regards Doug VE6DTB Hans Mellberg emcconsult...@yahoo.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 10/31/2002 04:37:16 PM Please respond to Hans Mellberg emcconsult...@yahoo.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: Stephen Irving sirv...@lutron.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: Re: Official Languages of Countries the CIA website has great descriptions of each country. Yes, that CIA!!! http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html --- Stephen Irving sirv...@lutron.com wrote: Hello everyone. My name is Steve Irving, and I am new to this forum. Does anyone know where to find a reliable, up-to-date list of the official languages of each country? This list would be useful to people selling products internationally, as many standards require instructions in the official language of each country of sale. Thanks for your help, Steve Stephen R. Irving Project Electrical Engineer Lutron Electronics, Co. Inc. +1 (610) 282 - 6468 +1 (610) 282 - 7324 [Fax] = Best Regards Hans Mellberg Regulatory Compliance EMC Design Services Consultant By the Pacific Coast next to Silicon Valley, Santa Cruz, CA, USA office:831-454-9450, cell:408-507-9694, fax:831-454-0755 __ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ?
Eh? John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk@majordomo.ieee.org on 10/25/2002 11:01:45 AM Please respond to John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: Re: English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ? I read in !emc-pstc that Jacob Schanker schan...@frontiernet.net wrote (in 001301c27c1f$b550d880$6401a8c0@net1) about 'English vs. American - very off topic, but in line with current thread Re: Definition ?' on Fri, 25 Oct 2002: Back in March 2000, I wrote the following piece for The Rochester Engineer magazine. I think it fits in nicely with the current Definition ? thread contrasting English English with American English. It's 'British English', not 'English English'. Professional translators recognise them as two closely allied but distinct language variants, as are Australian and South African English. It is important to translate from, say, German, into the right one for the client. US barbecue, British barbecue, Aus barbie, SA braai, for example. I am not a professional translator, but I work in technical writing and standards writing with people from both sides of the Pond, so I tend to be able to switch from one to the other. Many of my US colleagues can also do that. We NEVER know which terms to use when addressing Canadians, and one Canadian colleague confirmed that each Canadian citizen picks his or her own selection from the two variants. (;-) There are also a few Canadian English words. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
ESD protection for test equipment
Hi All, We have run into a problem where the ESD discharges to the EUT are getting onto the 100base T ethernet lines and damaging the support equiment Does anyone know of a commercially available box that we could put onto or in series with the Cat 5 cable ethernet line that would provide ESD protection for the equipment used to support the EUT during ESD testing, i.e. Hub, ethernet switch etc. We have fried a couple of hubs this way, and I was wondering if there was a ready made solution. I'm sure we are not the only ones who have encountered this, so any ideas are welcome. Regards Doug Beckwith Mitel Networks --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Question regarding something slightly unusual ...
Hi Doug, I have seen this recently on another cord connected power supply, like you use on a laptop, and I wondered about that too. I am speculating, but it may be that the product was approved before TUV had NRTL status i North America, thus an approval by an OSHA/SCC accredited third party was required to sell it in North America. It could also be that it was done for marketing reasons, in which case we know there is absolutely no logical reason why. Regards Doug Doug McKean dmck...@corp.auspex.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 10/09/2002 11:43:44 AM Please respond to Doug McKean dmck...@corp.auspex.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: EMC-PSTC Discussion Group emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: Question regarding something slightly unusual ... In 20 years, I've never seen this before but that's not saying much. Why would a mfr get a UL recognition approval for a commercial ITE style single phase 155-230vac computer style product but for that same product get the TUV GS mark? Mfr is a stateside company. Product to be used in restricted areas with trained personnel only. But, one that essentially anyone could buy. What's the advantage of getting such a mixed set of approvals? I would assume such a thing would normally get a Listing. Maybe turning the question around for our overseas friends - why would you get a GS mark for your product but only get UL recognition for an ITE computer product when it's normal to get a listing for such a product? And now I'm wondering if with such a device that there's some deviation within the testing as to cause the product to be GS accepted but not with a listing. Regards, Doug (scratching head...) --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Telecom Connector and line cord standards
Hi All, Does anyone know what the equivalent standard is for UL1863 in Europe? Regards Doug Beckwith --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Laser Warnings
Hi Richard, Try this URL. http://babelfish.altavista.com/translate.dyn I have used this in the past and it fairly accurate. I suggest do the translation and get someone who speaks the lingo to look at it for technical correctness. This is an inernational form, and I'm sure someone will be able to do that for you. Regards Doug richwo...@tycoint.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 08/14/2002 02:39:08 PM Please respond to richwo...@tycoint.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: Laser Warnings Can someone tell me where I can find translations of the following, especially German. Caution - Class 2 laser radiation when open. Do not stare into beam. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Marking Languages for Canada
The key word in 1.7.12 is 'country'. At the moment, Canada is one country, with two official languages, either of which is legally acceptable. I will say though, that regradless of the law, I believe we are morally obliged to make safety instuctions as clear and understandable as possible, as a misunderstanding of an instruction could potentially cause a hazard to someone. That means, we translate important instructions/labels into French and English for Canada. Regards Doug soundsu...@aol.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 08/02/2002 11:37:56 AM Please respond to soundsu...@aol.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: Re: Marking Languages for Canada Gary McInturff wrote: I believe UL does require it, but as Rich pointed out it isn't always followed up, and II think is somewhat vague about it, intentionally I imagine. To be very specific about it one would have to know what countries the equipment will be installed in? Often the manufacturer doesn't know, or if they do initially that is subject to change. If you can't control the export then do you require warnings in Malayalam (Southern India I believe), Arabic, Japanese, Chinese, (which dialect). ad nausium. How about those countries where UL 60950 has no real standing. I think EN60950 has the same clauses and they are no more illuminating. 1.7.12 Language Instructions and equipment marking related to safety shall be in a language which is acceptable in the country in which the equipment is to be installed. This is pretty much on the mark. I was a manager at UL when this issue was put forth to the chief engineer's office. It was recognized that the standard required warning markings to be placed on the product in the appropriate language for the intended market, and the follow-up service procedures specifically included that requirement. However, it was also understood that there is no way for any UL follow-up inspector to know where the product was intended to be shipped, nor is it possible for a FUS inspector to evaluate a warning marking in Swahili, for example and determine its compliance with the standard. Therefore, the decision was to have the inspectors verify the english wording of the warning marking and place the burden of compliance with local language (other than English) on the manufacturer. Greg Galluccio www.productapprovals.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Marking Languages for Canada
Hi Kristiaan, If you look at 60950, you are only required to mark your products in a language which is acceptable in the country which it is being sold. In the national deviations there are some specific countries, such as Germany, who specify that safety instructions be in their particular country. To get to the specifics of your question. Canada has two official languages, English and Canadian French and either is acceptable. If we marked our product in french only, it would not be acceptable in the US, so because of the limited space on labels, we generally mark our North American products in English only on the label and have the other languges (English, French and Spanish)in the user guide. We do it purely for marketing reasons (I'm not going to bore you with the details of the french language debate here in Canada). In your scenario, a product that has a cULus marking with markings in English only is legal in both countries. Regards Doug Beckwith Carpentier Kristiaan carpenti...@thmulti.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 08/01/2002 05:37:07 AM Please respond to Carpentier Kristiaan carpenti...@thmulti.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: Marking Languages for Canada Hello group, A product from manufacturer X is delivered with a (direct plug-in) power supply from mftr Y to customers in Canada. Regarding the power supply, it is UL approved + UL listed and has the UL marking with C and US. The warning marking on the power supply is only in english. Question: Is it required that the marking is also in french (en francais) when the product is sold in Canada? If YES, is there any reason why the marking is not in both languages if there is an approval for US+Canada? Thanks for your answers. Kris Carpentier --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: HALT and HAAS
Hello Peter, There is a company in Denver, CO, called Qualmark who should be able to answer your questions. Regards Doug Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il@majordomo.ieee.org on 07/31/2002 06:38:21 AM Please respond to Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: \EMC-PSTC (E-mail)\ emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: HALT and HAAS Dear All, 1. Has anyone heard of HALT and HAAS? 2. What are some overseas labs (in Europe, North America and Asia) testing for HALT and HAAS? 3. What does a manufacturer testing to HALT and HAAS gain? This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il http://www.i-spec.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: UL 60950, Section 6.1.2.1
Hi Rich, A question. If you bridge the barrier between TNV and earth, for the purposes of test 6A, I assume the test voltage is the upper limit of the rated mains voltage of the equipment, (240V). Is this correct? Regards Doug Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 05/16/2002 05:30:25 PM Please respond to Rich Nute ri...@sdd.hp.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: rgeorger...@carrieraccess.com cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: UL 60950, Section 6.1.2.1 Hi Richard: For those who want to read the UL60950 Section 6.1.2.1, I have written the specific parts of the section that I have questions on. Otherwise, here are my questions and comments: 1) If the bridging components are left in place, do I still have to meet the 10 mA requirement? No. The standard is quite clear that the Figure 6A, 10 mA, test is only performed if components are removed for the electric strength test. Note the statement: If this option is chosen, an additional test... is performed with all components in place. 2) If so, at which test voltage, the 1.5kV/1.0kV or EUT's rated voltage/range? The test voltage is the EUT rated voltage, not the electric strength test voltage. The paragraph describing what to do if components are removed, implies that if the components are left in place, the 10 mA test is not performed, only that the components shall not be damaged. But the section describing the passing requiring requirements does not make that distinction. They are part of an 'and' condition. The standard implies that some circuits may have components connecedt between the telecom network and earth. For such circuits -the components could load the electric strength test such that the test would appear to be a failure, or -the test voltage could damage the components. Therefore, the standard allows such components to be removed such that only the insulation is tested (and the components are not damaged). However, the standard requires a degree of isolation between the telecom network and earth such that the impedance is not less than 7 kohms for a 120-V source (120 V/10 mA - 5 kohms). 3) If the 10 mA test is not required, when the bridging components are left in place, then what is the reasoning for having these components be able to exceed the 10 mA, when those components that had to be removed, be subject to the 10 mA max current? The problem is that the impedance will either load the hi-pot tester such that it indicates failure or cannot rise to the specified voltage (1 kV or 1.5 kV), or the component cannot withstand the hi-pot test voltage and is destroyed. For these reasons, the line-to-earth components can be lifted for the hi-pot test (1 kV or 1.5 kV), but must be tested by the rated voltage test (120 V or 230 V, 10 mA max). Imagine a non-linear voltage-limiting device between the network line and earth. At working voltages, the device appears as an open circuit. At higher voltages, the device appears as a relatively low impedance (or even near zero ohms). For the hi-pot test, the circuit would indicate failure because of the operation of the voltage-limiting device. For the rated-voltage/10 mA test, the device will appear as a relatively high impedance. In summary: The requirement is for basic insulation between the network line and earth. This insulation is tested by a hi-pot test. In some constructions, the circuit may have components (i.e., impedances) between line and earth. Depending on the components, the hi-pot test may not be possible, or may damage the line- to-earth components. In such cases, the components may be removed for the hi-pot test. However, the impedance of the components between line and earth cannot be less than that determined by the rated-voltage/10 mA test. If you have further questions, or want further clarification, please ask. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at:
Re: A little off topic but ... exploding CD's ???
Sounds to me like someone has too much time on their hands. On the face of it, it is amusing, but it is this kind perceived hazard that safety agencies and lawyers love, with the result that ridiculous requirements like this start appearing in safety standards. Maybe we should just ban all electrical and mechanical devices, along with large bodies of water so that people don't drown etc. Regards Doug Beckwith Doug McKean dmck...@corp.auspex.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 05/09/2002 06:34:09 PM Please respond to Doug McKean dmck...@corp.auspex.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: EMC-PSTC Discussion Group emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: A little off topic but ... exploding CD's ??? As a matter of safety, has anyone really addressed the issue of the upper speed limit of CDs? Quoted from the following webpage ... http://www.qedata.se/e_js_n-cdrom.htm Introduction But where's the limit? Manufacturers try to outspin each other all the time by selling CD-ROM drives with higher and higher spin ratios. Spin ratios of 2x, 4x, 8x, 16x, 32x, 56x and 64x come in a never ending stream. The CD is forced to rotate faster and faster. At what speed will a CD blow up, and can you do something to prevent it from exploding? ... At the conclusion of the test, the author recommends the following ... Safety Recommendations The committee wishes, after finishing its work, to suggest the following safety precautions. Safe distance to a CD-ROM drive with spin ratio 64x CLV should be no less than 5 metres (15 ft.). All work with CD-ROM units should require safety goggles and protective clothing be worn. CD-ROM drives of the 64x CLV class and higher, should be provided with shrapnel protection of no less than 3 mm aluminium or 1 mm steel. To avoid operator inhalation of CD-ROM particles, CD-ROM drives should be provided with a dust suction fan with suitable filter, or have the fan duct connected directly to the outside air. In addition to the laser light warning label, CD drives should be affixed with another label warning against the hazard of shrapnel, such as the one below: With appropriate labels for exploding CDs. No. This isn't a joke. Regards, Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: A very nice game
I deleted the file email immediately, but our IS group is asking what the file name was. Can anyone remember what it was, so I can pass it on to them. Thanks Doug Beckwith Naftali Shani nsh...@catena.com@majordomo.ieee.org on 04/24/2002 12:06:22 PM Please respond to Naftali Shani nsh...@catena.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org To: 'Chris Chileshe' chris.chile...@ultronics.com, 'Bill Ellingford' bill.ellingf...@motion-media.com, 'emc-p...@ieee.org'emc-p...@ieee.org cc: Subject: RE: A very nice game If I'm not wrong, this is the KLEZ virus (Win32.Klez.I@mm). Regards, Naftali Shani, Catena Networks (www.catena.com) 307 Legget Drive, Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2K 3C8 613.599.6430/866.2CATENA (X.8277); C 295.7042; F 599.0445 E-mail: nsh...@catena.com -Original Message- From: Chris Chileshe [mailto:chris.chile...@ultronics.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:19 AM To: 'Bill Ellingford'; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: A very nice game Bill, Do we know which virus it was? Regards -Original Message- From: Bill Ellingford [SMTP:bill.ellingf...@motion-media.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 12:37 PM To: 'jmw'; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: A very nice game Importance:High URGENT Please be aware that the above E-mail to the EMC group contained a virus. Fortunately our system removed it from the message. Bill Ellingford -Original Message- From: jmw [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: 24 April 2002 22:59 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: A very nice game -- Virus Warning Message (on gemini2) setup.exe is removed from here because it contains a virus. - * --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. The service is powered by MessageLabs. For more information on a proactive anti-virus service working around the clock, around the globe, visit: http://www.star.net.uk --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at:
Re: FCC Part 68 and prototypes
Richard, Under the old Part 68 regime, there was a thing called a Limited field trial administered by the Telcos. This was primarily used to do test prototypes and do early field trials while you were waiting for the FCC to issue the approval. You had to have a compliant product, i.e. have all your testing completed, before you coud go to field trial. This process has now gone the way of the Dodo, as there is no longer any approval by an agency (FCC, ACTA) required; you self declare as a manufacturer. Under the self declaration scheme, all you have to do is test your product (can be inhouse), issue a Declaration of Conformity, and send the application to ACTA. You do not have to wait for any form of approval from ACTA, but you can ship the product in any quantities you wish, as soon as you have signed the declaration and posted it on your company website . All the details are on the ACTA website (www.part68.org). Regards Doug Beckwith --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Existing EN50082-1 approved products
From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 02/14/2002 02:06 PM Hi All, Thanks for the response. I just want to clarify that this is not our product, it was prompted by a discussion I had with a someone. So far everyone has supported my position, that re-test is required and a declaration to EN50082-1 is no longer valid. Many thanks to all, I was beginning to doubt my sanity. Regards Doug Ron Pickard rpick...@hypercom.com on 02/14/2002 12:41:55 PM To: Douglas Beckwith/Kan/Mitel@Mitel cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Existing EN50082-1 approved products Doug, After July 1, 2001, EN50082-1:(1992 or 1997) no longer gives a presumption of conformity for ITE to the EMC Directive. This is, of course, assuming your product is ITE, then EN55024 must indeed apply. Your declaration of conformity also needs to be updated to reflect this. If your product is not ITE, then another immunity standard will likely apply to your product. I hope this helps. Best regards, Ron Pickard rpick...@hypercom.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Existing EN50082-1 approved products
Hi All, As we all know, I hope, EN55024 came into effect on July 1, 2001, and superceded EN50082-1. If a product was legally being sold in the EU, before that date, and was compliant to EN50082-1, does the product need to be re-tested to EN55024 to be sold after that date, if there are no changes to that product, i.e. is a declaration to EN50082-1 still legal? Regards Doug Beckwith --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: CE Marking - Prototypes
From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 01/29/2002 08:39 AM Just a comment. UL approval is not mandatory in the US, although certain parties would like to think so. Safety approval by an OSHA accredited agency is mandatory. Some cities, such as Los Angeles have their own safety approval, and there are many organisations that provide safety approvals in the USA (CSA, Entela, ETL, Metlabs, to name a few). For PC peripheral cards, I have often seen the statement in UL reports that state that a product may only be used in conjunction with a UL approved chassis. The implication is that the use of the card in a chassis approved by other agencies is not acceptable, which is not the case. I am not knocking UL here because I believe that they do excellent work and their approval has many advantages. I am simply saying that they are not the only one. Unfortunately it is often communicated to potential customers at trade shows, that any other safety agency marking is somehow inferior to UL's. As we all know, this is not the case, but this sometime results in customers demanding approval by UL as well, imposing unneccessary costs on the manufacturer who has opted to use another agency such as CSA. Regards Doug Beckwith Own Opinions Only Gregg Kervill gr...@test4safety.com on 01/28/2002 09:13:13 PM Please respond to Gregg Kervill gr...@test4safety.com To: 'Chris Chileshe' chris.chile...@ultronics.co.uk, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Douglas Beckwith/Kan/Mitel) Subject: RE: CE Marking - Prototypes PLEASE consider this in the context of what is expected in the US, from the UK. When I have exhibited the exhibition package will specify something about NOT connecting any equipment that is not UL Listed. Failure to adhere to this clause usually promised summery expulsion. So why should we not expect any less commitment to exhibiting from the US into Europe I agree there is a lot of non-compliant (and sometimes potentially dangerous) equipment on show but that should make us more cautious. PLEASE DO NOT add on big filters without considering (AND MEASURING) the issue of Earth Leakage. Similarly - make sure that you know the earth leakage current for each item that in in your booth. Otherwise your extension lead may fail to meet OSHA or the local code requirements. As for 'exploding' products - I was lecturing each morning and afternoon at an exhibition in London (product safety) and at 11:45 and 4:45 each day 50 people would leave the lecture hall and 'hit' the exhibition. On the last Friday I visited a PSU supplier near the lecture hall and asked him about a (non-compliant) product label. The poor guy nearly exploded. Every morning and afternoon 50 people came to his booth to tell him why his labels were non-compliant! True story and maybe a useful one - check out the local competition and list their non-compliances - then explain (to visitors) the mistakes that you have avoided - making sure NOT to mentions names. Point - Aim and Fire! Best regards Gregg --Original Message- -From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org -[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Chris Chileshe -Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 4:11 AM -To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org -Subject: RE: CE Marking - Prototypes - - - -Regarding products for demo's and exhibitions, Enci writes .. - - Therefore the application of CE Marking or lack thereof is -meaningless. - -You would think so wouldn't you. A small problem arises in -that if you have -competitors with a CE marked product, they will make it a -point to display -this and this means potential customers will be signing deals -with them -and not you because they have better and more reliable information on -delivery dates. If you have no competitors, then you are OK. - -CE marked or not, make sure that the product is safe and -further, that it -will not go bang when connected to a supply with everybody else's non -compliant stuff. It might be an idea to take a large filter if -one is affordable. - -There is nothing quite as memorable as a product that explodes at an -exhibition. In fact, it makes the exhibition worth attending -the next time, -and considering it has been the talk of the industry since the -last time, you -will get an unusually large crowd, and a quick check through their -business cards will reveal they are competitors and not customers -if the former exist! - -Having said this much, I feel it important that I state that -these experiences -were not personal to me or my current or previous employers. -That's the -truth. - -Best regards - -- Chris - - --Original Message- -From:Enci [SMTP:e...@cinepower.com] -Sent:Sunday, January 27, 2002 12:18 PM -To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org -Subject: RE: CE Marking - Protoypes - - - - -Well, I found the guide I was looking for, and the key issue is the -placing on the market or taking into service. The guide -clearly states -demonstrating at an exhibition is not
RE: radar
From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 01/10/2002 11:17 AM Aha, a man after my own heart. Now you are talking about real cars. As an ex South African living in Canada, I still can't get used to the idea of driving on the the wrong side of the road. Doug Beckwith Veit, Andy andy.v...@mts.com on 01/10/2002 08:29:14 AM Please respond to Veit, Andy andy.v...@mts.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Douglas Beckwith/Kan/Mitel) Subject: RE: radar Why would someone want to take a car out of UK with the steering wheel on the wrong side? I can think of at least one good reason to take a RHD car out of the UK - its called the Lotus Super 7. There, its out in the open now. I am a British car nut. :) Rerards, Andrew Veit Systems Design Engineer MTS Systems Corp 1001 Sheldon Drive Cary, NC 27513 -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 3:35 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: radar I read in !emc-pstc that John Shinn john.sh...@sanmina.com wrote (in 001f01c1992f$09f5c960$0b3d1...@hadco.comsanmina.com) about 'radar', on Wed, 9 Jan 2002: Why would someone want to take a car out of UK with the steering wheel on the wrong side? There are actually more *countries* where you drive on the left. Not more RHD cars, though. (No, I don't have the list of RHD countries, but it's on the web somewhere - everything is!) Besides, it is *undeniable* that a British car has the steering wheel on the right side. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk After swimming across the Hellespont, I felt like a Hero. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: EMI guard bands
From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 12/19/2001 10:50 AM Legally you are not required to have any margin, but you measurement uncertainty is usually 3-4db, so you would set the margin to allow for at least your measurement uncertainty. In my previous company we specified 6dB margin to Class A and 3dB margin to Class B. If you specifiy greater than 3dB to class B, your development costs to achieve that rise exponentially. Regards Doug Beckwith Mitel Networks Stone, Richard A (Richard) rsto...@lucent.com on 12/19/2001 08:06:06 AM Please respond to Stone, Richard A (Richard) rsto...@lucent.com To: 'Gary McInturff' gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com, Doug McKean dmck...@auspex.com, EMC-PSTC Discussion Group emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Douglas Beckwith/Kan/Mitel) Subject: RE: EMI guard bands Does anyone make Class A AND Class B products? if so, do you allow for a much smaller margin on the B since its approx. 10 db quieter than A to start with. or do you treat them equally. Also Oats site to Oats site can differ as much as +/- 4 db do to many factors. any comments? Richard, -Original Message- From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@worldwidepackets.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:19 PM To: Doug McKean; EMC-PSTC Discussion Group Subject: RE: EMI guard bands I hold with the 3 db under class B, as well as A. The only effective argument, in my mind, is the uncertainty of measurement issue. Beyond that I find that if I have 3 db everywhere my measurements next time down with that product or with one off the shelf have also been compliant. So if pragmatic repeated measurements is telling me I'm in then I am not going to spend the time and money to make even more sure that I am in. The goal is to not interfere with communications not to be invisible at all costs. If it ain't broke I'm not fixing it. Obviously, others disagree. By the way if a customer requests it, they get what they want, if they want to pay for it, and I have never rejected products with a 3 db band - and they haven't bitten me yet either. My couple cents Gary -Original Message- From: Doug McKean [mailto:dmck...@auspex.com] Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 3:15 PM To: EMC-PSTC Discussion Group Subject: Re: EMI guard bands Tania Grant wrote: Amund, My minimum criteria and recommendation has always been at least 6dB. However, how many engineering managers, upon finding a 1.5 dB margin in their favor, rule ship it! nod Although in some markets, there are customers who require -6dB under the Class A limit. Although if I had it my way, I'd make it about -10dB under the limit. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our
Re: Conducted emisions - frequencies lower than 150kHz
From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 11/15/2001 09:38 AM I can't take these roonerspisims any more! Doug John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk on 11/15/2001 03:33:44 AM Please respond to John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Douglas Beckwith/Kan/Mitel) Subject: Re: Conducted emisions - frequencies lower than 150kHz I read in !emc-pstc that bogdan matoga bogda...@pacbell.net wrote (in 3bf31b67.a7262...@pacbell.net) about 'Conducted emisions - frequencies lower than 150kHz', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001: John: Why would you want to eat mink? The tag is a false Spoonerism (rearrangement of initial letters for humorous (?) effect) of 'Eat, drink and be merry!' Time for a new tag, I think. Watch the space below.(;-) -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: [Fwd: User Warning Signal Words]
From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 11/08/2001 11:09 AM Sounds like it should be changed to either Alert, Note or similar. Does anyone know where this requirement comes from? Regards Doug Robert Macy m...@california.com on 11/07/2001 08:59:35 PM Please respond to Robert Macy m...@california.com To: Douglas Beckwith/Kan/Mitel@Mitel, David Heald davehe...@mediaone.net cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org, ni...@tsd.serco.com Subject: Re: [Fwd: User Warning Signal Words] Perhaps, it's time to utilize Alert instead of Warning for Class A compliance information. - Robert - Robert A. Macy, PEm...@california.com 408 286 3985 fx 408 297 9121 AJM International Electronics Consultants 619 North First St, San Jose, CA 95112 -Original Message- From: douglas_beckw...@mitel.com douglas_beckw...@mitel.com To: David Heald davehe...@mediaone.net Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; ni...@tsd.serco.com ni...@tsd.serco.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [Fwd: User Warning Signal Words] From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 11/07/2001 04:27 PM Hi All, If I may submit my two Canadian pesos worth. There is a US miltary handbook on technical writing that discusses the defintion of these words and how they should be used. Can't remember what it is off hand, but I will look it up and post it. These are the definitions that we use in our documentation. Here is a brief summary. CAUTION - Potential damage to the equipment, e.g. ESD or static WARNING - Potential minor injury or harm to the the user/maintainer. e.g sharp edges, corners etc DANGER - Potential major injury or death of the user/maintainer, e.g. exposed High voltage terminals. That being said, I have seen so many misuses and applications of these terms that deviate from the definitions, for example in the UK you are required to put an EMC Class A warning note in the documentation. In that case, I don't think that Class A emissions from an unintentional radiator are harmful, but that is another debate. Regards Doug Beckwith Mitel Networks --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: [Fwd: User Warning Signal Words]
From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 11/07/2001 04:27 PM Hi All, If I may submit my two Canadian pesos worth. There is a US miltary handbook on technical writing that discusses the defintion of these words and how they should be used. Can't remember what it is off hand, but I will look it up and post it. These are the definitions that we use in our documentation. Here is a brief summary. CAUTION - Potential damage to the equipment, e.g. ESD or static WARNING - Potential minor injury or harm to the the user/maintainer. e.g sharp edges, corners etc DANGER - Potential major injury or death of the user/maintainer, e.g. exposed High voltage terminals. That being said, I have seen so many misuses and applications of these terms that deviate from the definitions, for example in the UK you are required to put an EMC Class A warning note in the documentation. In that case, I don't think that Class A emissions from an unintentional radiator are harmful, but that is another debate. Regards Doug Beckwith Mitel Networks --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: EMC test table construction plans
From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 11/02/2001 08:21 AM Sorry guys, finger trouble here with a mouse, didn't mean to send a reply. Regards Doug Beckwith --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: EMC test table construction plans
Doug, You might want to look at a paper that was presented at the Montreal IEEE EMC Symposium by HP on measurements that they made on a table when starting to test above 1 GHz. As you know, the FCC (ANSI C63.4) and CISPR 22 requirements simply call out that the table should be non-conducting. That's about all that is said. Measurements made by HP in Vancouver, WA show that this might just be an inadequate specification for the table due to reflections from the table/air boundary. Their table was wood with no metal fasteners of any kind, with a plastic sheet on the top. It meets the non-conducting requirement, but demonstrated that this minimal standard is inadequate to ensure accurate and repeatable results. I am certain that the results of their tests will cause some interesting discussions in various standards bodies over the next few years. That said, a wood or fiberglass table should meet your needs quite nicely. I've seen a number of construction techniques over the years that have all had minimal metal content (our tables have two swivel casters under the legs at one end and metal axels for the wheels at the other end as their total metal content). These range from all wood, to PCV pipe frame with a wood top to fiberglass construction. All are sturdy enough to hold 200 pounds and all are non-conductive. I'm not sure what to suggest for your swivel mount, but I have seen turntables built with a single metal pivot in the middle with a race of pool balls used for ball bearings further out on the table. Quick, simple and elegant. Non-conductive, except for the pivot in the middle. Good luck and have fun. Based on HP's paper, I suspect that a lot of us will be building new tables of a yet to be determined material in the next few years. Should make for some interesting conversations. Ghery Pettit Intel -Original Message- From: POWELL, DOUG [mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com] Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 9:38 AM To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) Subject: EMC test table construction plans Hello all, I plan to construct my own insulated EMC test table for a 5 meter chamber. Seems simple enough to do and I could easily come up with something. I thought I might first ask for input from those of you in the discussion group who have experience or maybe even construction plans. Here are some features I want: 1) I will be testing products that weight up to 200 Lbs (91 kg). 2) I want to minimize metalic fastners. 3) I would like to make it a pivoting table (not motorized). 4) Height is 80 cm. 5) The surface should be replacable if it gets badly worn or scarred. I'm thinking of using hardboard. 6) Suggestions on length width? -doug --- Douglas E. Powell, Compliance Engineer Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. Mail stop: 203024 1626 Sharp Point Drive Ft. Collins, CO 80525 970.407.6410 (phone) 970-407.5410 (fax) mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com --- _ This message, including any attachments, may contain information that is confidential and proprietary information of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. The dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this message or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited without the express written consent of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product
Re: Definition for Safety Critical Component
From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 10/31/2001 12:00 PM I agree with everthing that has been said so far. The trouble comes with what the agency deems to be critical. My experience with approvals agencies has been that their definition of Safety Critical is somewhat unscientific. I have often found that they tend to arbitrarily define a component as safety critical because they don't understand the function of circuit and what the component does in the application. The application of the compnent is best understood by the designer, not the approvals agency. I have spent many hours arguing with a well known Canadian safety agency on this question. I spent a number of years in the defence industry doing fault tree analysis and failure modes, effects and criticality analysis of components and circuits, and this to me seems like a more scientific way to approach the definition of what components ae safety critical. I tend to follow this process in definining the critical components, by looking at their failure modes and contribution to the overall flammability of the circuit, and I do not allow the safety approval agency to define them, primarily for the reason above. In fairness to the agencies, most of the time I come up with the same list as they come up with, but at least I have a technical reason behind the decision. I also only specify the critical parameters in the safety report, e.g. rating only, not manufacturer where it is not critical. Doug Beckwith geor...@lexmark.com on 10/31/2001 08:40:17 AM Please respond to geor...@lexmark.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org cc:(bcc: Douglas Beckwith/Kan/Mitel) Subject: Re: Definition for Safety Critical Component There are at least two possible definitions of this term. Under the 60950 standards, these would be the components listed by an approving agency deemed to be safety critical. The other is any part, listed or not, that contributes to the overall safety of the device. For example, a metal housing will not show up on a critical parts list, but can have sharp edges. As pointed out earlier, even a caution label could be considered such a part. Based on the single fault theory on which the standards are based, the failure of a single safety critical component should NOT introduce a hazard. For example, if the insulation between primary and exposed metal parts fails in a Class I design, the fault current will go to ground via the earthing path, and blow the fuse. At no time should the exposed metal carry hazardous voltages. The failure of two safety critical components can result in a hazard. If in the example given the ground path does not exist (a second fault), the bare metal may bear hazardous voltages. George Alspaugh --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Insulated Electrolytic Capacitors
From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 10/24/2001 02:05 PM Hi Peter, My understanding of 60950 is that distance through insulation applies here (0.4mm). I have never had this issue with CSA. Regards Doug Beckwith Mitel Networks Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il on 10/24/2001 09:38:19 AM Please respond to Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il To: \EMC-PSTC (E-mail)\ emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Douglas Beckwith/Kan/Mitel) Subject: Insulated Electrolytic Capacitors Dear All, I have submitted an ac input to dc output switching power supply for NRTL approval. One deviation is that the primary ac insulated capacitor is too close to the earthed chassis and that the insulation cannot be relied to provide the required basic insulation. 1. What is the group's opinion regarding this point? I have personally seen many Listed/Recognized units with clearance distance less than 2.0 mm to the earthed chassis without any additional insulation to provide the required insulation. In fact, I am holding a switching power supply by a reputable manufacturer with only approx. 0.7 mm between the primary and earthed chassis. This power supply is UL Recognized and TUV approved. 2. There is a UL Pag 156002 regarding this issue, but it seems that some NRTL engineers are using their own judgement and approving units at their own discretion. This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: [Fwd: RE: LVD testing suite for ITE devices]
From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 08/31/2001 04:59 PM The standards for North America are CSA C22.2No60950-00 or UL60950-00. The standard for Europe is EN60950. I suggest that you get a CB scheme report and certificate for other parts of the world. Doug Beckwith Mitel Networks David Heald davehe...@mediaone.net on 08/31/2001 01:40:16 PM Please respond to David Heald davehe...@mediaone.net To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc:(bcc: Douglas Beckwith/Kan/Mitel) Subject: [Fwd: RE: LVD testing suite for ITE devices] Forwarded for Eric Meunier Original Message Subject: RE: LVD testing suite for ITE devices List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:08:34 -0400 From: Meunier, Ériceric.meun...@ca.kontron.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org For Ethernet ports you may also want to consider the high-voltage isolation requirement specified in the IEEE-802.3 Ethernet specification. I found that Ethernet isolation is usually not required as part of the EN60950 certification process but it may be a good safety feature to consider and can improve product reliability as well. === Éric Meunier Hardware Architect E-mail: mailto:emeun...@teknor.com mailto:emeun...@teknor.com Kontron Communication Inc. (Teknor) 616, rue Curé-Boivin Boisbriand, Québec Canada, J7G 2A7 Tel: 1-450-437-4661 ext. 2419 Fax: 1-450-437-8053 Web: http://www.teknor.com http://www.teknor.com -Original Message- From: Stuart Lopata [SMTP:stu...@timcoengr.com] Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 12:35 PM To: emc Subject: LVD testing suite for ITE devices Can anyone point me to specific tests and standards applicable for safety testing for ITE devices? Specifically, we are looking to meet the low voltage directive for computers and computer peripherals ( such as hardware that plugs into the bus slots and wireless networking equipment that connects to pcmia or ethernet ports). Sincerely, Stuart Lopata --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: North American test house
From: Douglas Beckwith@MITEL on 08/14/2001 08:53 AM Hello Kim, I believe NEMKO could help you. They have a very strong presence in North America. Nemko Canada and are fully accredited by the FCC and IC. The person to contact is Russel Grant at Nemko Canada (rgr...@nemkoca.com) and he will be able to advise you. Regards Doug Beckwith Mitel Networks Canada wo...@sensormatic.com on 08/14/2001 08:12:42 AM Please respond to wo...@sensormatic.com To: kim.jen...@eicon.com, geor...@lexmark.com cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org, t...@world.std.com (bcc: Douglas Beckwith/Kan/Mitel) Subject: RE: North American test house Yea, UL has an EMC test lab. Richard Woods -- From: geor...@lexmark.com [SMTP:geor...@lexmark.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 7:49 AM To: Kim Boll Jensen Cc: EMC-PSTC (E-mail); TREG (E-mail) Subject: Re: North American test house Underwriters Laboratories (UL) owns DEMKO. You may be able to use the DEMKO / UL connection to your advantage. However, I am not sure that UL does any EMC testing / verification. George Kim Boll Jensen kim.jensen%eicon@interlock.lexmark.com on 08/14/2001 04:34:26 AM Please respond to Kim Boll Jensen kim.jensen%eicon@interlock.lexmark.com To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com, TREG (E-mail) treg%world.std@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: North American test house Hi all I need URGENTLY a test house in North America which will accept a Danish accredited test report for a Bluetooth product for FCC and IC approval. The Danish test house is accredited my national government and have just applied for FCC approval concerning Bluetooth but we can't wait for that. Can some one give me names of possible test houses so we don't have to retest it all. Best regards, Kim Boll Jensen Approval manager Eicon Networks Denmark --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
