Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?

[McBurney, Ian]

Mike Sherman’s view exactly mirrors my experience in the 25 years I’ve been 
doing EMC testing!

Regards,

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

From: MIKE SHERMAN 
Sent: 24 May 2021 21:29
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?

We have found "pre-screening" EMC testing early in the development cycle to be 
a good investment. EMC test results can be notoriously hard to predict, even 
when using EMC-savvy design principles. Extra PCB board spins are cheap in the 
context of a larger or time critical project.
Mike Sherman
Graco Inc.
On 05/24/2021 2:58 PM John E Allen 
<09cc677f395b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
 wrote:


“From much experience” I can only concur with Pete, Monrad and yourself –  
safety, EMC  & RoHS compliance must be  explicitly built into the Product 
Lifecycle structure and process. Failure to do that, and to then make sure that 
that all WORKS is a route to “painful”, time-consuming and expensive results 
(“been there and seen that” – and recounted that here -  far too many times!). ☹

John E Allen
W.London, UK




From: Richard Nute mailto:ri...@ieee.org>>
Sent: 24 May 2021 19:45
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?


Hi Charles:

Not what you asked for, but a set of principles for success with third-party 
testing, from a product safety point of view:


  1.  The design engineer and the product safety engineer should be able to 
predict the outcome of any test.
  2.  Testing simply confirms (or not) the prediction.
  3.  Failure of a test or other requirement at the third-party delays the 
third-party investigation which can imperil the product schedule.  To maintain 
schedule, the product must comply with all tests before it is submitted to the 
third-party.
  4.  If the product that you successfully tested fails a third-party test, 
then your or the third-party test was in error.  This can open a dialogue 
between you and the third-party as to test process.
  5.  Tests to standards requirements are either pass or fail; always record 
the measurement.  If the test requires a stimulation, then adjust the 
stimulation to the point of failure and record the measurement.  Both tell you 
the margin between pass and failure.
  6.  Provide your measurement data to the third-party when you submit the 
product.  If the third-party measurement data differs from your data, some 
third-parties will do their own investigation as to why.

In my opinion, EMC is not a black art and can follow these same principles.

Stay safe, and best regards,
Rich




From: Grasso, Charles [Outlook] 
mailto:charles.gra...@dish.com>>
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 7:47 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] What percentage of products pass first time?


Hello EMC gurus!



Calling all labs - In your experience how many products pass the Unintentional 
Emissions
test first time? ​




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[PSES] RF absorber for EMC room

[McBurney, Ian]

A question for the EMC experts.

Is there an alternative rf absorber to ferrite tiles that works between 30MHz 
to 1GHz? I am thinking of the pyramidal type absorber.
This is for research for partially lining a pre compliance radiated rf emission 
EMC room.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. UK.
TR10 9LU.
Tel: 01326 370121
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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Re: [PSES] Wifi user settings

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Robert & Bruce.

Thank you for your reply.
The user would only be requested to select the country in which they were 
located. All the power settings and available channels would automatically be 
set in the software for that particular country. The user would not be able to 
adjust any settings or channels that weren't permitted for that country. 
However; as I understand it, for the USA, not even the country selection menu 
is permitted and the unit must be factory set with no option to select a 
country. I was just wondering if any other countries required this arrangement.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

From: Robert Bonsen 
Sent: 24 September 2020 21:16
To: McBurney, Ian 
Subject: Re: [PSES] Wifi user settings


Hi Ian,

Regardless of whether a country does surveillance on this issue or not, it's 
usually a violation of local spectrum laws to even allow selection of  wi-fi 
settings which could exceed what is locally allowed. As part of most regulatory 
documents, verbiage is included requiring a method that ensures locking in 
settings to not exceed allowable levels, or rather the levels that were used to 
demonstrate compliance of the transmitter. It's risky to allow users to change 
settings of a transmitter if there is potential for exceeding compliance levels 
as regulators would go after the manufacturer rather than the user to mitigate 
compliance violations.

>From a specific surveillance perspective, depending on the target segment and 
>whether the product is OEM or ODM, you may run into issues with a few 
>countries like China, Taiwan, Japan, India, Brazil, Russia and a few others 
>who have in recent years stepped up control of their own wireless space.

The question that regulators may ask during evaluation or if/when regulatory 
issues arise is why this selection functionality is exposed to users to begin 
with. Most products have country-specific SKUs and settings, so some level of 
customization takes place on the device anyway prior to shipping-- why  not 
include wireless. I've had to deal with such an issue in China some time ago, 
where the company decided on an export-only solution that determined wireless 
performance based on user input during the setup phase to help out product 
integrators. That caused a ban on that particular product and additional 
customs scrutiny and delay in subsequent submittals for China-marketed products 
as well.

Cheers

-Robert
On 2020-09-24 06:41, McBurney, Ian wrote:
Dear colleagues.

I understand that this may not be the correct forum to discuss this issue but 
I'm hoping someone may be able to answer my question or refer me to someone who 
can.
We have a product with a built in Wi-Fi/Bluetooth module. For the USA, it is 
not permitted for the user to be able to select any other country Wi-Fi 
settings and any alterations must only be those permitted for the USA. e.g. 
channels & power settings. For other countries & territories we will have a 
country selector GUI for the user to control.
Does anyone know if there are any other countries that necessitate the Wi-Fi 
settings to be fixed and not permit the user to select another country?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company. -


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[PSES] Wifi user settings

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

I understand that this may not be the correct forum to discuss this issue but 
I'm hoping someone may be able to answer my question or refer me to someone who 
can.
We have a product with a built in Wi-Fi/Bluetooth module. For the USA, it is 
not permitted for the user to be able to select any other country Wi-Fi 
settings and any alterations must only be those permitted for the USA. e.g. 
channels & power settings. For other countries & territories we will have a 
country selector GUI for the user to control.
Does anyone know if there are any other countries that necessitate the Wi-Fi 
settings to be fixed and not permit the user to select another country?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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[PSES] unsubscribe

[McBurney, Ian]

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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Re: [PSES] UL 60065 7th & 8th Edition

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Ted.

Many thanks for your reply.
I hope you are safe during the current pandemic.

Kind regards;

Ian

From: Ted Eckert 
Sent: 07 May 2020 15:07
To: McBurney, Ian ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: UL 60065 7th & 8th Edition

Hello Ian,

New products will not be eligible to be certified to UL 60065 starting December 
20th. However, products already certified to UL 60065 as of that date will 
continue to retain their certification and do not need to be updated to the new 
standard. However, at some point in the future, a date may be announced when 
existing certifications will need to be transitions. I would expect that to be 
a number of years off in the future.
https://ctech.ul.com/en/knowledge-center/ul-62368-1-effective-date-information/<https://url6.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1jWhB1-0007sN-5r=57e1b682=9JUsGNmwiQ-rac_qRbanb9S0mk9sxcLnx8C1o0saBxZlVQMSUdbtnY4Pu-BgkDvS4PPpsoJlkEraSkdQDaxQqxFpF8GE2PafckxsxFKo4iSTq2nt-nn3eZRfkKT65K4YFhh8PAHQXQTXKKff2jdzVdsF-hZDkF_NK7Y2VDxVvGM8Dj6ee0pDymDlE0hn_M93xEna6u46zn8r9eL5LNDezRemmgjqh9J__bCFesr5aSquD1mHDPK7tKBFISyYoHF3_BwZo4lrpE5VGn5Jn232NqD0jFMSYqu5-EqkQciXIIM>

Regards,
Ted Eckert
The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer, UL or any other NRTL.

From: McBurney, Ian 
mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>>
Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 6:56 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [PSES] UL 60065 7th & 8th Edition

Dear Colleagues.

Does anyone know if products approved to the above standard will still be able 
to be NRTL marked after 20th December 2020? This is the date the EN version can 
no longer be used to declare conformity with the EU LVD. I would like to know 
if the same event will happen in the USA, or when it is likely to occur.

Many thanks in advance.


Ian McBurney
Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.
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[PSES] UL 60065 7th & 8th Edition

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear Colleagues.

Does anyone know if products approved to the above standard will still be able 
to be NRTL marked after 20th December 2020? This is the date the EN version can 
no longer be used to declare conformity with the EU LVD. I would like to know 
if the same event will happen in the USA, or when it is likely to occur.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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Re: [PSES] IEC 61010-1:2010 hazardous DC voltage

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

I would be interested in finding out how the hipot values (electric strength) 
were derived as they have been increased in 62368-1.

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

From: Regan Arndt 
Sent: 26 February 2020 04:49
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] IEC 61010-1:2010 hazardous DC voltage

Hi Rich.
Thanks for your feedback.

Correction/clarification. I was not trying to ‘convert’ to DC using 1.414 (root 
2).
I merely used that ‘multiplication factor’ (1.414 & sometimes just 1.4) based 
on the widely used/misused?/abused? that is used in the industry when 
determining ‘equivalent’ DC values, just like one commonly does when 
calculating the hipot test values.

See: 
https://electrical-engineering-portal.com/what-is-hipot-testing-dielectric-strength-test,
 where Jignesh Parmar quotes in his article: “Therefore, if we use dc test 
voltage, we ensure that the dc test voltage is under root 2 (or 1.414) times 
the ac test voltage, so the value of the dc voltage is equal to the ac voltage 
peaks.”

Another classic example comes from the 60950 standard for hipot values. 1500 
VAC/2121 DC (calculation factor = 1.414)

That being said, I look forward to hear a response from someone on TC66 on why 
they chose 70V.

It would also be great if you could do a whitepaper (& speak) on the 
understanding of how the body reacts to AC & DC for this year’s PSES symposium 
in Chicago? 

Regan

On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 4:07 PM Richard Nute 
mailto:ri...@ieee.org>> wrote:


Hi Regan:

The “bump” occurred from 1st edition, 1990, to 2nd edition, 2001.  The 2nd, 
2001, and 3rd, 2010, are the same.

Be careful with your math and DC interpretation.  The rms voltage limit is 33.  
The ac peak is 1.414 x 33 = 46.7.  The DC is 70, which is unrelated to the AC 
voltages (which is because of how the body reacts to AC and DC).

As to the rationale for the change from 1st to 2nd, I suggest you find a member 
of TC66 and ask for the documents preceding the 2nd.

Touch voltages are specified in IEC TS 61201.  In this standard both 30 and 33 
volts rms are listed, with very little difference in body reaction.  Same for 
60 versus 70 volts DC.

Best regards,
Rich



From: Regan Arndt mailto:reganar...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2020 2:38 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] IEC 61010-1:2010 hazardous DC voltage

Dear fellow members,

I am trying to understand the 'rationale/history' of why TC66 bumped up the DC 
voltage by a mere 4 volts for hazardous voltages.
As we know by simple math, 46.7 Vp x 1.414 = 66 VDC.where, why and 
how did the extra 4 volts come about?
I need a history lesson here ;)

Also, will these voltages also come back to normal in Ed 4? (i.e. 42.4 Vp, 60 
VDC)

Thanks for shedding any light on this?

Regan Arndt


-


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Re: [PSES] 62368-1 fire enclosure

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Charlie.

Thank you for your reply.
The harnesses are in the fire enclosure which also contains PS3 circuits but 
are located well away, both electrically and physically from the PS3 & PS2 
circuits.

My query is really with the 6.4.6 clause below:

Within the fire enclosure, combustible materials that are not part of a PS2 or 
PS3 circuit
shall comply with the flammability test of Clause S.1 or be made of V-2 class 
material,
VTM-2 class material or HF-2 class foamed material. These requirements do not 
apply to:
- parts with a size of less than 1 750 mm3;
- supplies, consumable materials, media and recording materials;
- parts that are required to have particular properties in order to perform 
intended functions,
such as synthetic rubber rollers and ink tubes;
- gears, cams, belts, bearings and other parts that would contribute negligible 
fuel to a fire,
including, labels, mounting feet, key caps, knobs and the like;
- tubing for air or fluid systems, containers for powders or liquids and foamed 
plastic parts,
provided that they are of HB75 class material if the thinnest significant 
thickness of the
material is < 3 mm, or HB40 class material if the thinnest significant 
thickness of the
material is ≥ 3 mm, or HBF class foamed material.

It seems to imply that any component in a fire enclosure notwithstanding the 
exceptions listed and a mass of >4g must have a V-2 flammability rating 
regardless of the distance from a PIS.

Kind regards;

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

From: Charlie Blackham 
Sent: 04 February 2020 19:43
To: McBurney, Ian ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: 62368-1 fire enclosure

Ian

Are these harnesses and connectors:

  1.  within the part of the enclosure that needs to be a Fire Enclosure due to 
presence of PS3 circuits,
  2.  or are they in other parts of the enclosure that doesn't need to be a 
Fire Enclosure, as all circuits are PS1, but it just happens that the enclosure 
material is the same?

If (a), then there are restrictions on them as explained in PD IEC/TR 
62368-2:2015

6.4.6 Control of fire spread in a PS3 circuit
Source: IEC 60950-1
Rationale: There are two basic requirements to control the spread of fire from 
PS3 circuits:
a) use of materials within the fire enclosure that limit fire spread. This 
includes the same requirements as for components in PS2 circuits and includes a 
requirement from IEC 60950-1 to address all combustible materials that are 
found within the fire enclosure;
b) use fire-containing enclosures - Product enclosures will have a design 
capable of preventing the spread of fire from PS3 circuits. The criteria for 
fire enclosures is based on the available power.
Rationale: PS3 sourced circuits may contain a significant amount of energy. 
During single fault conditions, the available power may overwhelm the safeguard 
of material control of fuels adjacent to the fault or any consequential 
ignition source making a fire enclosure necessary as part of the supplementary 
safeguard. A fire enclosure and the material controls constitute the necessary 
supplementary safeguard required for a PS3 circuit.

If (b), then my understanding is that that part of the enclosure is not acting 
as a "fire enclosure", so the rules don't apply to those harnesses providing 
they are suitably separated from the volume requiring a Fire Encloure


Regards
Charlie


Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: 
https://sulisconsultants.com/<https://url6.mailanyone.net/v1/?m=1iz460-0009Fp-3p=57e1b682=1xfADfbhq9d84XtqhQH22JROmXtBsIUUw7x-eFnI7v8_5VltshTe6xCSt1mFlVK1ugmj6YafHjU5vdouZ6S_4OgLE_O1J0Vaocy_vwD4hP0VELnBQYVQzGgcIZvAlQaYRM7XmvV0Kw62pwuf-t3ULVbhRFQL9sQQgmEqBHAAJ3mh0njX653lRRO7ALmPCMLVdzIz_TJLbDZB_MgimsvaSImNgR1m1qXrmTraY9hYtKw>
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: McBurney, Ian 
mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>>
Sent: 04 February 2020 13:55
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] 62368-1 fire enclosure

Dear colleagues.

I have a question regarding the flammability rating of components located 
within a fire enclosure.
We have been told by a safety approval engineer that under clause 6.4.6 of 
62368-1:2014 that all combustible material within a fire enclosure and not part 
of a PS2 or PS3 circuit must have be V-2 or better flammability rating. For 
example, internal harnesses & connectors which carry low level signals between 
PCBs and do not carry supply voltages must have a rating of V-2 or better.
Does this mean that any component within a fire enclosure regardless of 
location must have a minimum flammability rating of V-2 or pass the convoluted 
Annex S.1 test?

Many thanks in advance;

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,

[PSES] 62368-1 fire enclosure

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

I have a question regarding the flammability rating of components located 
within a fire enclosure.
We have been told by a safety approval engineer that under clause 6.4.6 of 
62368-1:2014 that all combustible material within a fire enclosure and not part 
of a PS2 or PS3 circuit must have be V-2 or better flammability rating. For 
example, internal harnesses & connectors which carry low level signals between 
PCBs and do not carry supply voltages must have a rating of V-2 or better.
Does this mean that any component within a fire enclosure regardless of 
location must have a minimum flammability rating of V-2 or pass the convoluted 
Annex S.1 test?

Many thanks in advance;

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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[PSES] Conducted rf emissions measurements from network ports

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear Colleagues.

We have a product that can be powered from a PoE source as well as 12V DC.
For the EU EMC regulations, we measure the conducted rf emissions from the 
ethernet port when supplied with PoE power. EN 55032 Table A.11
Is the same test required when declaring compliance with the FCC regulations?

Many thanks in advance,

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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Re: [PSES] UK Gov Using The UKCA Mark

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Michael.

Am I right in believing that you can now affix the FCC logo to products when 
using the sDoc scheme?

Kind regards;

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

From: Michael Derby 
Sent: 05 February 2019 11:15
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] UK Gov Using The UKCA Mark

Anyone with a test site that meets the requirements of ANSI C63.4.☺

Michael.


From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com]
Sent: 05 February 2019 10:52
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] UK Gov Using The UKCA Mark

Glyn

For sDoC... there is no requirement to be accredited, nor listed on the FCC 
website.   So, anyone can do sDoC testing.

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: 
www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Payne, Glyn 
<0d283c0acebb-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: 05 February 2019 10:41
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] UK Gov Using The UKCA Mark

Hi John,

Won’t the lack of a MRA with the US effect the FCC SDoC route when getting 
emission scans done in labs that are accredited by UKAS?

Regards,

Glyn Payne

Validation and Compliance Engineer

Solid State Logic - UK Headquarters

www.solidstatelogic.com

Facebook : 
Twitter : 
Youtube

25 Spring Hill Road | Begbroke | Oxfordshire | OX5 1RU | UK

t: +44 1865 664894 | m: +44 7989 163937


From: John Woodgate mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk>>
Reply-To: John Woodgate mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk>>
Date: Tuesday, 5 February 2019 at 10:23
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>>
Subject: Re: [PSES] UK Gov Using The UKCA Mark


Goods arriving in the UK should not be in trouble. UK recognizes the CE Mark on 
March 29 and there is no reason to stop recognizing it on March 30.  Goods 
leaving the UK for the EU are in a different position IF a UK-only Notified 
Body is involved in determining compliance. For many products, there is no need 
for Notified Body involvement, and many Notified Bodies are not UK-only but 
widely-based in the western world.

This scenario applies only if there is a 'no-deal' Brexit, and in that case it 
is up to the UK and EU to decide independently what marking to accept and for 
how long.  We can hope that common sense will prevail, but it might not.

Best wishes

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2019-02-05 09:59, Scott Xe wrote:
I fully agree on the Ken's concern.  How can the manufactures change the logos 
and relevant documents of the goods arrive in the UK post Brexit of 30/03/2019? 
 UK will suffer short of goods in next few months.  Does UK plan to cope with 
it?

Regards,

Scott


On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 at 01:51, Kapur, Ken 
mailto:ken.ka...@thermofisher.com>> wrote:
Hi John,
These new requirements with the UKCA mark will be a significant burden on 
industry, if a MRA can be established, it would help significantly. There are 
still lot’s of questions about the UKCA marking and how it gets implemented.  
Considering a no-deal Brexit: getting any relabeling to happen will definitely 
take a lot of time.  Hopefully, there will be no new testing and existing 
standards would be accepted.

Will there be an 18 month transition? Will there be a different set of 
requirements for products shipping EU to UK versus from other countries?


Best Regards,
Ken Kapur
Director, Compliance
Thermo Fisher Scientific
Mobile: 408-685-1454



From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2019 8:42 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] UK Gov Using The UKCA Mark

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.


We need to get a Mutual Recognition Agreement as soon as possible. I'm 
surprised that the UK Gov document doesn't even mention the possibility. It 
ought to be very easy, because on March 28 the UK NBs were accredited to EU and 
they didn't suddenly become incompetent on March 29. The problem is pure petty 
bureaucracy (and spite!).

Best wishes

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates 

Re: [PSES] Spare parts requiring an EU declaration of Conformity.

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello John.

The problem is we have over 7000 different spare assemblies and I don't really 
want to issue a DoC for each one.
Previous product DoCs have had to list each model in the range rather than just 
specifying the product range series.

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

From: John Woodgate 
Sent: 18 January 2019 15:39
To: McBurney, Ian ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Spare parts requiring an EU declaration of Conformity.


Your simplest course is not to argue but give them the DoC they want. As you 
say, Turkey is not in the EU, so it could, if it wanted, require a DoC written 
on parchment, with gold lettering.

Best wishes

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk<http://www.woodjohn.uk>

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2019-01-18 09:50, McBurney, Ian wrote:
Dear Colleagues.

Can anyone point me to the relevant section in the EU directives regarding the 
shipping of spares into the EU?
We are shipping a spare PSU PCB assembly into Turkey and the Turkish customs 
want a Declaration of Conformity document. I know Turkey is not in the EU but 
they are demanding this documentation.
I thought that spare parts/assemblies did not require a Declaration of 
Conformity document if the part was an identical replacement and is being 
fitted into an already CE marked product.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company. -


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Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
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and not necessarily those of the company.

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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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[PSES] Spare parts requiring an EU declaration of Conformity.

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear Colleagues.

Can anyone point me to the relevant section in the EU directives regarding the 
shipping of spares into the EU?
We are shipping a spare PSU PCB assembly into Turkey and the Turkish customs 
want a Declaration of Conformity document. I know Turkey is not in the EU but 
they are demanding this documentation.
I thought that spare parts/assemblies did not require a Declaration of 
Conformity document if the part was an identical replacement and is being 
fitted into an already CE marked product.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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[PSES] Brexit requirements for UK manufacturers.

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear Colleagues.

I have been waiting for some firm guidelines as to what will be the 
requirements for UK manufacturers after 30th March 2019
but so far nothing has been published by the relevant authorities.

>From my understanding, if the UK leaves the EU without an agreement, the UK 
>will be outside the EU and there are different requirements for UK based 
>manufacturers.

I believe the existing manufacturers Declaration of conformity documents will 
still be valid but that a nominated representative in the EU will now be 
required. We plan to nominate our distributor in the EU (i.e. Germany) as the 
importer to satisfy this requirement.

Please can you let me know if my assumptions are correct?

Thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

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Re: [PSES] EN 55032

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Gert.

Many thanks for your reply.
Your comments are appreciated.

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

From: Gert Gremmen 
Sent: 27 November 2018 09:28
To: McBurney, Ian ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 55032


Hi All,

The document below has been published very recently and shows how and why...

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=COM:2018:764:FIN

In simple language, the EC court has decided that HS are to be treated as 
EU-law (Elliot case).

This has a lot of consequences. In order to get a privately originated text 
count as law, the EC has added

a number of conditions that standards need to fulfill. These find their base in 
 the New Legislative Framework.

Some of the problems with current texts are:

  *   Not static (by undated references to standards), so "law"  changes when 
referenced  standards update, or referenced standards are withdrawn.
( the problem is here also that ESOs are private organisations (ISO,CENELEC, 
CEN, ISO) can change EU law this way)
  *   Unclear/incomplete technical specifications , link between directives 
essential requirements and standards technical specifications
  *   Ambiguous test specifications, often introduced by choices a manufacturer 
can make on its own, so as to avoid testing.
  *   And many more, mostly of a legal interpretation nature.

The problem is not that standards are not technically suitable to show 
presumption of compliance, but that they are not suitable to be used as law.

Secondly, the ESOs and national committees are not (yet) fully aware of the 
consequences and are a bit reluctant.They have been used to create and approve 
HS on their own, where now the EC takes the lead. This creates problems 
especially for older standards, that have not been written with the newer 
standardisation requests in mind.

To assess the standards for their suitability a number of HAS-experts have been 
nominated, and the iterative process of creating suitable harmonised standards 
is active for about 6 months.

Gert Gremmen

--

Independent Expert on CE marking

Harmonised Standards (HAS-) Consultant @ European Commission for RED and EMC

EMC Consultant

Electrical Safety Consultant


On 27-11-2018 9:43, McBurney, Ian wrote:
Hello David.

I would be interested in getting more information regarding these legal issues 
with standards and the court proceedings.
Are there any published articles?

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>

From: itl-emc user group <mailto:itl...@itl.co.il>
Sent: 27 November 2018 06:07
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 55032

I was informed that almost all the latest versions of standards are being held 
up over legal issues since a standard was introduced as evidence in a court 
case.
CISPR 11 and others have the same issue.

Regards,
David Shidlowsky | Technical Reviewer
Address 1 Bat-Sheva St. LOD 7120101 Israel
Tel 972-8-9186113 Fax 972-8-9153101

Mail : 
dav...@itlglobal.org<mailto:dav...@itlglobal.org>/dav...@itl.co.il<mailto:dav...@itl.co.il>/e...@itl.co.il

rom: John Woodgate mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk>>
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 1:29 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 55032


I think it is still held up over legal issues, which may not be resolved any 
time soon.

Best wishes

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk<http://www.woodjohn.uk>

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-11-26 09:45, McBurney, Ian wrote:
Dear colleagues.

Does anyone know if the 2015 edition of the above standard is now listed in the 
OJEU for the EMC directive?
I am struggling to find it on the website.

Many thanks in advance.

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company. -


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product

Re: [PSES] EN 55032

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello David.

I would be interested in getting more information regarding these legal issues 
with standards and the court proceedings.
Are there any published articles?

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

From: itl-emc user group 
Sent: 27 November 2018 06:07
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 55032

I was informed that almost all the latest versions of standards are being held 
up over legal issues since a standard was introduced as evidence in a court 
case.
CISPR 11 and others have the same issue.

Regards,
David Shidlowsky | Technical Reviewer
Address 1 Bat-Sheva St. LOD 7120101 Israel
Tel 972-8-9186113 Fax 972-8-9153101

Mail : 
dav...@itlglobal.org<mailto:dav...@itlglobal.org>/dav...@itl.co.il<mailto:dav...@itl.co.il>/e...@itl.co.il

rom: John Woodgate mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk>>
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2018 1:29 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 55032


I think it is still held up over legal issues, which may not be resolved any 
time soon.

Best wishes

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk<http://www.woodjohn.uk>

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-11-26 09:45, McBurney, Ian wrote:
Dear colleagues.

Does anyone know if the 2015 edition of the above standard is now listed in the 
OJEU for the EMC directive?
I am struggling to find it on the website.

Many thanks in advance.

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company. -


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[PSES] EN 55032

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

Does anyone know if the 2015 edition of the above standard is now listed in the 
OJEU for the EMC directive?
I am struggling to find it on the website.

Many thanks in advance.

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer
Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial estate,
Penryn,
Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK.
Tel: 01326 372070
Email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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Re: [PSES] NRTL approval

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

Many thanks to all those who replied to my enquiry below. All contributions 
were appreciated.
The reason I posed the question was to avoid the costs of approval 
certification from an NRTL. For us, it is around £12+ per product.
In reality, at 2.5W and 5V DC,  I don't foresee the product being a safety 
hazard.
The purpose of NRTL approval would only be to fulfil the regulatory 
requirements but not doing so may cause problems with our distributor in the 
USA.
For the EU, as a manufacturer we issue our Declaration of Conformity documents 
based on satisfying ourselves that we meet the requirements of the relevant 
directives.

Thank you all;

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


From: McBurney, Ian 
Sent: 13 November 2018 09:27
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] NRTL approval

Dear colleagues.

We are in the process of designing a USB bus powered audio product around 2.5W 
for professional/consumer use.
The product enclosure will be UL94 5VA flammability rated plastic.
Will this product have to be NRTL approved for sale in the USA/Canada?
The EU LVD doesn't apply because of the supply voltage is only 5V DC. The GPSD 
probably will!

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Mike Cantwell 

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[PSES] NRTL approval

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

We are in the process of designing a USB bus powered audio product around 2.5W 
for professional/consumer use.
The product enclosure will be UL94 5VA flammability rated plastic.
Will this product have to be NRTL approved for sale in the USA/Canada?
The EU LVD doesn't apply because of the supply voltage is only 5V DC. The GPSD 
probably will!

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
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Mike Cantwell 

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David Heald: 

[PSES] IEC62368-2

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

With the introduction of edition 3 of IEC 62368-1, does anyone know when the 
corresponding version of IEC 62368-2 will be available?

Many thanks in advance;

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

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Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] RF immunity - audio noise in headsets

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello James.

Yes. XLR, RCA/phono & ¼" Stereo jack connectors are the main connectors we use.
We mainly specify balanced connections as this means the screen part of the 
cable is used correctly.
For unbalanced connections, it gets a little more complicated for radiated rf 
immunity but can be effectively attenuated with filtering.

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.


From: James Pawson (U3C) 
Sent: 05 September 2018 09:17
To: McBurney, Ian ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] RF immunity - audio noise in headsets

Hi Ian,

That's interesting, thanks. What connector and cable technology do your 
products end up getting used with? RCA/phono or XLR?

All the best
James


From: McBurney, Ian 
mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>>
Sent: 05 September 2018 08:51
To: James Pawson (U3C) 
mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk>>; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: RE: [PSES] RF immunity - audio noise in headsets

Hello James.

We produce digital products with multiple analogue audio inputs and outputs and 
have to include common mode filtering on every port to reduce the 
susceptibility to radiated rf but also to attenuate the digital rf emissions 
from within the product.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.


From: James Pawson (U3C) 
mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk>>
Sent: 05 September 2018 08:17
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] RF immunity - audio noise in headsets

Hi Amund, hope you are well.

Some general thinking aloud follows, some of which you may have already 
considered.

I would have expected that some kind of non-linear function (e.g. diode) would 
be required to demodulate the AM RF carrier. This is unlikely to be present in 
a "dumb" speaker set but there's usually a JFET amplifier inside electret 
microphone cartridges. Therefore most of the demodulation from RF carrier to 
1kHz tone is going to take place inside the equipment.

Assuming that the equipment is not outputting audio (active but silent) to 
enable detection of any AM demodulation then it would be the effect of the RF 
carrier on the audio amplifier circuitry in the equipment that causes this 1kHz 
tone to appear. The unshielded wire from the headset is the antenna or means of 
coupling of the noise into the circuit.

It's unlikely (but still possible) that it would be noise on the ground / 
screen wire of the headset that causes the issue. More likely that the signal 
conductor is the most susceptible part of the system. This means that shielding 
of the cabling and speakers would be a main method of preventing this issue.

The shielding could be examined by disassembling a product. In my experience of 
taking audio equipment apart for this purpose the cabling is almost always some 
kind of enamelled copper wire in a twisted pair. The connections at the end 
points of the cable is where the symmetry breaks.

It also raises the question of immunity as a product quality issue rather than 
a regulatory one. Earphones / headphones are a very personal choice for many 
people. Its fine to state in the product literature that a well shielded pair 
of headphones must be used for compliance but if someone wants to wear their 
potentially less immune Beats or Sennheiser headphones and has problems as a 
result then it reflects on the product rather than the accessories.

Maybe this is why Apple have started using AirPods - no cable to worry about!

Hope some of this was useful
All the best
James



From: Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>>
Sent: 05 September 2018 07:01
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] RF immunity - audio noise in headsets


Wired headsets and microphones connected to a product, often acts as receiver 
for induced RF fields. That means you quite often hear the 1kHz modulation tone 
under the RF immunity tests. This is quite annoying for the user and above a 
certain level, not acceptable.



To avoid such phenomena is quite a big task to conduct. But have anyone of you 
any experience how to determine if the headsets / microphones or the connected 
final product is the source to this problem? 3rd. party headsets / microphones 
have of course different RF immunity performance, and after a lot of testing, 
you might be able to find headsets / microphones that are does not pick up 
fields and the hearing audio noise level is acceptable.



I assume that the final product may have great level of immunity, but as long 
the headsets / microphones has poor immunity level, you will have this audio 
problem anyway.

Has anyone been into this problem before?



BR

Amund














-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a mess

Re: [PSES] RF immunity - audio noise in headsets

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello James.

We produce digital products with multiple analogue audio inputs and outputs and 
have to include common mode filtering on every port to reduce the 
susceptibility to radiated rf but also to attenuate the digital rf emissions 
from within the product.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.


From: James Pawson (U3C) 
Sent: 05 September 2018 08:17
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] RF immunity - audio noise in headsets

Hi Amund, hope you are well.

Some general thinking aloud follows, some of which you may have already 
considered.

I would have expected that some kind of non-linear function (e.g. diode) would 
be required to demodulate the AM RF carrier. This is unlikely to be present in 
a "dumb" speaker set but there's usually a JFET amplifier inside electret 
microphone cartridges. Therefore most of the demodulation from RF carrier to 
1kHz tone is going to take place inside the equipment.

Assuming that the equipment is not outputting audio (active but silent) to 
enable detection of any AM demodulation then it would be the effect of the RF 
carrier on the audio amplifier circuitry in the equipment that causes this 1kHz 
tone to appear. The unshielded wire from the headset is the antenna or means of 
coupling of the noise into the circuit.

It's unlikely (but still possible) that it would be noise on the ground / 
screen wire of the headset that causes the issue. More likely that the signal 
conductor is the most susceptible part of the system. This means that shielding 
of the cabling and speakers would be a main method of preventing this issue.

The shielding could be examined by disassembling a product. In my experience of 
taking audio equipment apart for this purpose the cabling is almost always some 
kind of enamelled copper wire in a twisted pair. The connections at the end 
points of the cable is where the symmetry breaks.

It also raises the question of immunity as a product quality issue rather than 
a regulatory one. Earphones / headphones are a very personal choice for many 
people. Its fine to state in the product literature that a well shielded pair 
of headphones must be used for compliance but if someone wants to wear their 
potentially less immune Beats or Sennheiser headphones and has problems as a 
result then it reflects on the product rather than the accessories.

Maybe this is why Apple have started using AirPods - no cable to worry about!

Hope some of this was useful
All the best
James



From: Amund Westin mailto:am...@westin-emission.no>>
Sent: 05 September 2018 07:01
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] RF immunity - audio noise in headsets


Wired headsets and microphones connected to a product, often acts as receiver 
for induced RF fields. That means you quite often hear the 1kHz modulation tone 
under the RF immunity tests. This is quite annoying for the user and above a 
certain level, not acceptable.



To avoid such phenomena is quite a big task to conduct. But have anyone of you 
any experience how to determine if the headsets / microphones or the connected 
final product is the source to this problem? 3rd. party headsets / microphones 
have of course different RF immunity performance, and after a lot of testing, 
you might be able to find headsets / microphones that are does not pick up 
fields and the hearing audio noise level is acceptable.



I assume that the final product may have great level of immunity, but as long 
the headsets / microphones has poor immunity level, you will have this audio 
problem anyway.

Has anyone been into this problem before?



BR

Amund














-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 

Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Ari.

I'm considering hiring an ac source to power the LISN but my only concern would 
be that the ac source has high conducted rf emissions as I assume the ac is 
derived from high frequency switching power devices.

regards

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


From: Ari Honkala [mailto:ari.honk...@sesko.fi]
Sent: 26 April 2018 17:22
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

As an interim solution, until you get the source fixed, would be to use UPS on 
battery.

with best regards,

Ari Honkala

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: torstai 26. huhtikuuta 2018 13:33
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

Dear Colleagues.

I am setting up a mains conducted rf emissions measuring system and am 
experiencing excessive mains noise when connecting the LISN to the 240V wall 
socket. The noise affects my measurements between 150kHz to 400KHz. Beyond that 
and up to 30MHz I am satisfied. Is there a way of filtering out this noise. I 
have tried various EMI mains filter modules but none appear to attenuate enough 
at that frequency band. They are very good at attenuating frequencies beyond 
1MHz. I have tried inserting an isolation transformer before the LISN but this 
appears to distort the measurements.
Can anyone recommend a solution?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

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Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
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-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

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formats), large 

Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello John.

That will be quite difficult as the screened room is in the centre of the 
building with many different types of equipment adding to the overall mains 
noise.

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk]
Sent: 26 April 2018 13:43
To: McBurney, Ian <ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

Have you tried to isolate the original source of the noise - and then to 
supress that?

John E Allen
W. London, UK

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: 26 April 2018 11:33
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

Dear Colleagues.

I am setting up a mains conducted rf emissions measuring system and am 
experiencing excessive mains noise when connecting the LISN to the 240V wall 
socket. The noise affects my measurements between 150kHz to 400KHz. Beyond that 
and up to 30MHz I am satisfied. Is there a way of filtering out this noise. I 
have tried various EMI mains filter modules but none appear to attenuate enough 
at that frequency band. They are very good at attenuating frequencies beyond 
1MHz. I have tried inserting an isolation transformer before the LISN but this 
appears to distort the measurements.
Can anyone recommend a solution?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Brian.

Yes, I have 2 bulkhead mounted filters; one for the screened room & one for the 
control room.
However; I think the fundamental frequency of the noise may be in the KHz or 
10s of KHz range.

Regards;

Ian


From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: 26 April 2018 14:12
To: McBurney, Ian <ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

Ian,

Does your screen room have massive line filters on the AC mains coming in?  
This would be a requirement I believe.

Brian

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 9:08 AM
To: Kunde, Brian; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: RE: Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

Hello Brian.

If I power the LISN from the wall socket with no load connected, the emissions 
measurements are high.
If I switch off the wall socket, (double pole switch) but leave the LISN supply 
cable plugged in the wall socket the emissions drop considerably.
It is unfortunate that the measurement chamber is within a busy air conditioned 
R building but it is a screened room.

Regards;

Ian


From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: 26 April 2018 13:38
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

Ian,

First, are you sure the noise if coming from your AC Mains?   If you are using 
line filters, you need to get some kick butt filters that will give you good 
attenuation down to at least 10khz.

Second, are you sure the signals you are seeing between 150kHz and 400kHz are 
real?  Zero in on one of the signals and do a linearity check. This is done by 
taking a reading, then add attenuation such as a 6 dB attenuator to the input, 
and take another reading, which should be 6 dB less. If not, the problem might 
be a signal much lower in frequency which is throwing off the input stage of 
your receiver/spectrum analyzer.

Check the AC Mains powering your analyzer.  It might be the source of your 
problem.

Hope you figure it out.

The Other Brian

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 6:33 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [BULK] [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements
Importance: Low

Dear Colleagues.

I am setting up a mains conducted rf emissions measuring system and am 
experiencing excessive mains noise when connecting the LISN to the 240V wall 
socket. The noise affects my measurements between 150kHz to 400KHz. Beyond that 
and up to 30MHz I am satisfied. Is there a way of filtering out this noise. I 
have tried various EMI mains filter modules but none appear to attenuate enough 
at that frequency band. They are very good at attenuating frequencies beyond 
1MHz. I have tried inserting an isolation transformer before the LISN but this 
appears to distort the measurements.
Can anyone recommend a solution?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
-


This message is from the I

Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Brian.

If I power the LISN from the wall socket with no load connected, the emissions 
measurements are high.
If I switch off the wall socket, (double pole switch) but leave the LISN supply 
cable plugged in the wall socket the emissions drop considerably.
It is unfortunate that the measurement chamber is within a busy air conditioned 
R building but it is a screened room.

Regards;

Ian


From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: 26 April 2018 13:38
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

Ian,

First, are you sure the noise if coming from your AC Mains?   If you are using 
line filters, you need to get some kick butt filters that will give you good 
attenuation down to at least 10khz.

Second, are you sure the signals you are seeing between 150kHz and 400kHz are 
real?  Zero in on one of the signals and do a linearity check. This is done by 
taking a reading, then add attenuation such as a 6 dB attenuator to the input, 
and take another reading, which should be 6 dB less. If not, the problem might 
be a signal much lower in frequency which is throwing off the input stage of 
your receiver/spectrum analyzer.

Check the AC Mains powering your analyzer.  It might be the source of your 
problem.

Hope you figure it out.

The Other Brian

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2018 6:33 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [BULK] [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements
Importance: Low

Dear Colleagues.

I am setting up a mains conducted rf emissions measuring system and am 
experiencing excessive mains noise when connecting the LISN to the 240V wall 
socket. The noise affects my measurements between 150kHz to 400KHz. Beyond that 
and up to 30MHz I am satisfied. Is there a way of filtering out this noise. I 
have tried various EMI mains filter modules but none appear to attenuate enough 
at that frequency band. They are very good at attenuating frequencies beyond 
1MHz. I have tried inserting an isolation transformer before the LISN but this 
appears to distort the measurements.
Can anyone recommend a solution?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>


LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

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Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello John.

I'm getting the LISN checked at a UKAS EMC facility next week. I think it's 
excessive noise on the ac mains that's not being attenuated sufficiently by the 
LISN.

Regards;

Ian


From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@woodjohn.uk]
Sent: 26 April 2018 13:04
To: McBurney, Ian <ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements


You might ask the manufacturer of the LISN. Maybe it's faulty.

John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only

J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk<http://www.woodjohn.uk>

Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-04-26 11:32, McBurney, Ian wrote:
Dear Colleagues.

I am setting up a mains conducted rf emissions measuring system and am 
experiencing excessive mains noise when connecting the LISN to the 240V wall 
socket. The noise affects my measurements between 150kHz to 400KHz. Beyond that 
and up to 30MHz I am satisfied. Is there a way of filtering out this noise. I 
have tried various EMI mains filter modules but none appear to attenuate enough 
at that frequency band. They are very good at attenuating frequencies beyond 
1MHz. I have tried inserting an isolation transformer before the LISN but this 
appears to distort the measurements.
Can anyone recommend a solution?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company. -


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

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http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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<emc-p...@ieee.org>

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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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[PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear Colleagues.

I am setting up a mains conducted rf emissions measuring system and am 
experiencing excessive mains noise when connecting the LISN to the 240V wall 
socket. The noise affects my measurements between 150kHz to 400KHz. Beyond that 
and up to 30MHz I am satisfied. Is there a way of filtering out this noise. I 
have tried various EMI mains filter modules but none appear to attenuate enough 
at that frequency band. They are very good at attenuating frequencies beyond 
1MHz. I have tried inserting an isolation transformer before the LISN but this 
appears to distort the measurements.
Can anyone recommend a solution?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] EAC Mark in Russia

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Brian.

My company is going through EAC certification at the moment but for medium 
volume manufacturing.
>From my understanding there is 2 types of compliance.
TR CU Certificate of conformity and the TR CU Declaration of conformity.
Essentially, the Certificate of conformity is meant for higher volume products 
e.g. consumer and the Declaration or conformity is intend for one offs or small 
batches e.g. industrial.
Hopefully someone out there will correct me if I'm mistaken.

regards;

Ian


From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: 29 November 2017 19:25
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EAC Mark in Russia

Greetings.

I would love to hear your story about dealing with the EAC mark and shipping 
products to Russia. Though most all countries have laws, acts, or directives on 
the books, most are not enforced across the board, yet focuses primarily on 
mass produced consumer electronics, computers, etc.. Individual or custom built 
equipment, such as scientific/laboratory equipment generally gets in such 
countries without much trouble.

However, our department has been asked to looking into the current status of 
the EAC marking and what it takes to get single built instruments into Russia.  
Any information on this would be helpful.

We have talked to a couple 3rd party labs and of course they want the entire 
gambit including full certification testing for Safety, EMC, and RoHS by an 
accredited lab and a full certification program with factory inspections, the 
works, blah blah blah.  This approach is totally out of the question for the 
few products that we sell into this market.  Let's be reasonable here.

So far we haven't had any issues (unless we include a PC in the shipment) but 
if things are changing we would like to stay on top of things.

I would love to hear from you.  Thanks for all comments and stories.

The Other Brian



LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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David Heald >

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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formats), large files, etc.

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Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1:2014 DoW

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Bostjan.

I was informed by a testing agency that the DOW was the same as EN 60950 i.e. 
20-12-2020.

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si]
Sent: 11 September 2017 09:58
To: McBurney, Ian <ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: EN 62368-1:2014 DoW

Hello Ian,

EN 60065:2014 has a DoW 17.11.2017. This is in two months.

For this standard CENELEC and OJ show the same DoW.

Best regards,
Bostjan

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2017 10:54 AM
To: Boštjan Glavič <bostjan.gla...@siq.si<mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si>>; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: RE: EN 62368-1:2014 DoW

Hello Bostjan.

Do you know if EN 60065:2014 has the same withdrawal date as EN 60950?

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>


From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si]
Sent: 11 September 2017 09:08
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] EN 62368-1:2014 DoW

Dear all,

There was new EU official journey published on Sep 08 2017, however still DoW 
20.06.2019 is mentioned for EN 62368-1. Is anyone familiar about it? It is very 
important topic for customer who need to change certification for EN 60950-1 
into EN 62368-1. Cenelec web page shows DoW as Dec 20, 2020.

Best regards,
Bostjan


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Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
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and not necessarily those of the company.

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Re: [PSES] EN 62368-1:2014 DoW

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Bostjan.

Do you know if EN 60065:2014 has the same withdrawal date as EN 60950?

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si]
Sent: 11 September 2017 09:08
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EN 62368-1:2014 DoW

Dear all,

There was new EU official journey published on Sep 08 2017, however still DoW 
20.06.2019 is mentioned for EN 62368-1. Is anyone familiar about it? It is very 
important topic for customer who need to change certification for EN 60950-1 
into EN 62368-1. Cenelec web page shows DoW as Dec 20, 2020.

Best regards,
Bostjan


-


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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

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Re: [PSES] Why higher value for DC in SELV

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Rich

I endorse Johns comments.

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


From: John Allen [mailto:jral...@productsafetyinc.com]
Sent: 03 September 2017 20:23
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Why higher value for DC in SELV

Hi Rich,

Very well stated, as always.  Your contributions to our industry will forever 
be appreciated.

Thank you and Best Regards,

John

John Allen
Product Safety Consulting, Inc
www.productsafetyinc.com

On Sep 2, 2017, at 3:47 PM, Richard Nute 
> wrote:


Hi Pete and Vincent:

While the body is susceptible to current, the body resistance changes (lowers) 
as a function of voltage.  At voltages below 30 volts (DC or AC peak), the body 
impedance is very much greater (orders of magnitude) than the 1500-ohm value 
specified in IEC 60990.

Consider, if the body impedance was always 1500 ohms, then a 1.5-volt battery 
would give 1 mA body current.  We all know that this isn't the case.

I have done a number of experiments applying a slowly rising (1 minute) voltage 
(from a voltage source) from zero to 30 to the palm and forearm.  Large contact 
area.  The voltage and current were shown on an oscilloscope.  The body 
resistance could then be calculated from the voltage and current at any 
specific time.   The body resistance changes to a lower value, dramatically, as 
the voltage approaches 30.  I published the results in "Electrical Shock Safety 
Criteria," edited by J.E. Bridges, Pergamon Press, 1985.  I have repeated the 
test in many of my HBSE classes, and the results remain the same.  The voltage 
and time of dramatic lowering of body impedance is a function of applied 
voltage, duration, and the individual.

Where the "prospective voltage" exceeds the low-voltage limit, the current must 
be limited.  There is no current limit if the voltage is below the low-voltage 
limit value.

Because the body impedance is a function of voltage, low voltages, regardless 
of source current, are considered "safe" by most authorities.

The values of 30 volts AC and 60 volts DC are traditional, but have since been 
rationalized in IEC 61201.  The body responses to AC and DC current are 
described in IEC 60479.  The body response to AC is at a lower current than DC. 
 Hence, 30 volts AC and 60 volts DC.  And 0.5 mA AC and 2 mA DC.

For electric shock conditions, both voltage and current must exceed specified 
values.  If *either* voltage or current does not exceed specified values, then 
conditions for electric shock does not exist and safety is assured.

Best regards,
Richard Nute

On 9/2/2017 7:10 AM, Pete Perkins wrote:
Vincent,

The issue of adequate electric shock protection is difficult in 
that the human body responds to current rather than voltage.  This was quickly 
discovered by the early workers, such as Dalziel in the USA, and has been 
incorporated in the IEC work in the 60479 series of standards dealing with the 
effects of current on the human body.

IEC 60479-1 and 60479-2 deal directly with these currents.  The 
long term limit for LETGO-IMMOBILIZATION is 5mArms/7.1mApeak for bipolar/AC and 
25Ma for monopolar/DC.  More current is allowed at higher frequencies/shorter 
times as shown in the accompanying curves in these standards.  Note that I have 
expanded the waveform description to more easily allow you to see how it is 
implemented for non-sinusoidal waveforms which are much more important these 
days for switching electronics such as SMPS, VSDs and CFL/LED lamps.

Voltage has been used as a proxy for current since the early 
days because it has always been easier to measure voltage.  Because different 
historical limits have been used at various times and in various places there 
is some variation as to which voltage limits constitute adequate protection.   
The case for choosing the correct voltage limits to provide the same protection 
is much more complicated and needs to be modified to include the contact 
conditions and body impedance variations.  It is covered in IEC 61201 and 
60479-5 which contain dozens of curves for a myriad of these conditions.

The addition of switching electronics has brought about 
additional scrutiny for proper electric shock protection.  The development of 
IEC 60990 brings the needed focus on making proper TOUCH CURRENT measurements 
in products today, focusing on making peak measurements of these pulse driven 
non-sinusoidal waveforms.  Product standards, starting with IEC 60950 and 61010 
have worked to implement these methods and they are being further implemented 
in other product standards (and need to be more fully implemented further as 
electronic switching spreads to other product families).  Many presentations 
and 

[PSES] EN 55032 conducted emissions for network ports.

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

In EN 55032:2015 the definition of a wired network port (3.1.32) is for the 
connection of voice, data and signalling transfers intended to interconnect 
widely dispersed systems by direct connection to a single user or multi-user 
communication network e.g. CATV, PSTN, ISDN, xDSL, LAN.

We have a communication system that uses RJ45 network connectors for audio, 
data & signalling using a modified version of the Ethernet protocol. It is 
mostly direct connection between two units over distances of up to 150m but can 
also be multi-connection using a customised Ethernet switch.

Would these types of ports required conducted emissions measurements as 
detailed in annex A tables A.11 & A.12?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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[PSES] FCC labelling

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

Many thanks to all those who replied to my query, in particular Bill Stumpf and 
Michael Derby.
Always appreciated!

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
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[PSES] FCC labelling

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

I am looking into labelling a product as Class A for FCC Part 15  emission 
limits.
The product will use the verification route to compliance.
I would appreciate it if someone could let me know what labelling will be 
required on the product and the text required in the user documentation.
I am familiar with Class B labelling but would like to know the difference for 
Class A.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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Re: [PSES] EN 62368-3:2017-02-15 power limits

[McBurney, Ian]

Does anyone know where I can obtain or purchase a copy of this draft standard?
A source in the UK would be preferable.

Many thanks;

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: 08 March 2017 23:36
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 62368-3:2017-02-15 power limits


Hi Chuck:

I have reviewed the IEC draft version of EN 62368-3, 108/639/CD.  As near as I 
can tell, the power limits depend on the components of the system such as wire 
size and connector ratings.  In some cases, the power can be as high as 100 
watts.  In other cases, the current is limited to 1.3 amperes.
There is no one answer to your question.

Best regards,
Rich

From: Chuck August-McDowell [mailto:chu...@meyersound.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 1:49 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EN 62368-3:2017-02-15 power limits

Greetings from Berkeley,

I am curious to know the power limits described in the draft standard EN 
62368-3:2017-02-15.
Titled; Audio/video, information and communication technology equipment - 
Safety -- Part 3: DC power transfer through communication cables or ports
Any information would be helpful.

Thank you,


Mr. Chuck McDowell
Compliance Specialist
Meyer Sound Laboratories Inc.
2832 San Pablo Ave.
Berkeley, CA 94702-2204
Direct: 510-540-4670
Phone 510-486-1166 Ext. 270
Fax 510-486-8356
Email cmcdow...@meyersound.com


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[PSES] Wi-Fi (WLAN) router approvals with psu

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

We are looking at purchasing a WLAN (Wi-Fi) router from China and include our 
own wall wart power supply with it.
The router comes with all the necessary approvals and safety reports tested 
with its own wall wart psu. However; are these documents still valid it we swap 
the PSU with our own PSU?
Our own wall wart psu is approved.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
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[PSES] EN60950-1 dates and amendments

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

With the change to the European Union LVD and the requirements regarding 
declaring compliance, what version of EN 60950-1and its amendments are 
acceptable and is there an expiry date?
Does the UL version have similar expiry dates?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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[PSES] Canadian Standards

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

Is there an expiry date for declaring compliance with CAN/CSA-C22.2 No. 
60065:16 2nd edition when manufacturers will then be required to use 
CAN/CSA-C22.2 No. 62368-1-14?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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Re: [PSES] EU EMC Harmonized Standards (2014/30/EU) for Audio Power Amplifiers

[McBurney, Ian]

Hasn’t 55103-1:2009 been withdrawn and replaced by 55032:2012.
I believe professional audio products shipped after 2 march 2017 must use 55032 
to declare compliance with the EU EMC directive.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: 12 November 2016 12:19
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU EMC Harmonized Standards (2014/30/EU) for Audio Power 
Amplifiers

How could I have forgotten! Of course, Grace is probably concerned with 
professional equipment.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates 
Rayleigh England

Sylvae in aeternum manent.

From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen [mailto:g.grem...@cetest.nl]
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 11:17 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU EMC Harmonized Standards (2014/30/EU) for Audio Power 
Amplifiers


For professional equipment

EN 55103-1 and -2 apply  !

Regards,

Ing. Gert Gremmen
Approvals manager





+ ce marking of electrical/electronic equipment
+ Independent Consultancy Services
+ Compliance Testing and Design for CE marking
 according to EC-directives:
- Electro Magnetic Compatibility 2004/108/EC
- Electrical Safety 2006/95/EC
- Medical Devices 93/42/EC
- Radio & Telecommunication Terminal Equipment 99/5/EC
+ Improvement of Product Quality and Reliability testing

+ Education

Web:www.cetest.nl (English)
Phone :  +31 10 415 24 26
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that is confidential and/or protected by intellectual property rights
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Thank you for your co-operation.

From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: Friday 11 November 2016 22:22
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU EMC Harmonized Standards (2014/30/EU) for Audio Power 
Amplifiers

EN 55032 applies, and EN 61000-3-2. Audio amplifiers are in EN 61000-3-2 Class 
A. For immunity, EN 55020 still, until EN 55035 is finalized.


With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only

www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates 
Rayleigh England

Sylvae in aeternum manent.

From: Grace Lin [mailto:graceli...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 9:04 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EU EMC Harmonized Standards (2014/30/EU) for Audio Power 
Amplifiers

Dear Members,

Could you please advise the appropriate EU EMC harmonized standards for audio 
power amplifiers?

For radiated and AC mains disturbances,  I think EN 55032 fits.  Please let me 
know if it is not.

For immunity tests,  the title of EN 55024 seems not fit very well.  Though 
CISPR 35 was published, OJ has not published it (EN 55035?).  Should a generic 
standard (EN 61000-6-1 or EN 61000-6-2) be used?

Thank you very much!

Best regards,

Grace Lin



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discussion list. 

Re: [PSES] IEC 62368-1

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello John.

Do you know why the IEC doesn't make this information available to the public?
It would be very useful to those manufacturers who sell their products 
worldwide.

Kind regards;

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: 18 October 2016 12:31
To: McBurney, Ian <ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] IEC 62368-1

There is such a document but it is an internal IEC TC108 HBSDT document. If 
your company were a member of a trade association represented on BSI committee 
EPL108 you could obtain a copy, but I don't think there is any legitimate way 
otherwise.

I have proposed that the document (frequently updated) should be made publicly 
available, but without success.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk<http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> J M Woodgate and Associates 
Rayleigh England

Sylvae in aeternum manent.

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2016 9:21 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] IEC 62368-1

Dear Colleagues.

I have been informed that China, Japan & Australia have not adopted IEC 62368-1 
yet.
Does anyone know of a document or website where I can check to see which 
countries have adopted the above standard?
I am having to test products to the above standard but with the national 
deviations for the countries that have not adopted the standard tested to 
60065. This is adding a certain amount to the test cost.
Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

Thanks in advance;

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.
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[PSES] IEC 62368-1

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear Colleagues.

I have been informed that China, Japan & Australia have not adopted IEC 62368-1 
yet.
Does anyone know of a document or website where I can check to see which 
countries have adopted the above standard?
I am having to test products to the above standard but with the national 
deviations for the countries that have not adopted the standard tested to 
60065. This is adding a certain amount to the test cost.
Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

Thanks in advance;

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Brian.

The wall wart psu is class II construction and is LPS/LCC.
The CB report for the power supply was issued under the responsibility of UL 
and specifically lists the power supply.
The report details the construction of transformer which is class B.
The report also has photos of the internal construction of the power supply.
Although the product it powers is a digital product I would say it is 
multimedia as its primary function is audio.
My understanding of 60065 is that if a supply meets the requirements of 60950 
and is used in accordance with its technical specification then no internal 
examination of the supply is required.
Is this correct?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


-Original Message-
From: Brian O'Connell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
Sent: 15 June 2016 18:25
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

Responses to various thread posts below. Assumption is that the wall wart is 
not certified as a component, but as end-use item, and is Class II construction.

1. " A example: the 60950 power supply does not necessarily meet insulation 
requirements (among other requirements) of the 60065."

Class II construction per latest edition of IEC60950-1 meets  IEC60065 8th ed, 
but may be differences in di-electric withstand requirements. Clause 8 
indicates some special stuff for transformer testing of multi-layer sheet 
stuff, but is moot because both 60950-1 and 60065 both point to IEC61558-1, so 
test and construction requirements essentially same for both standards. For 
North America, these power supplies should have UL1310/CSA No.223 certification 
where LPS rating required, which meets or exceeds IEC60065 construction 
requirements. Class I construction is not typical for 'walwart' p/s, but 
UL60065, based on 8th ed, allow BI where ground bound properly tested and 
constructed.

2. "The 60950 compatible PSU normally relies on Basic Insulation and Protective 
Earthing of the secondary voltage, where your product may have a different 
configuration."

8th edition allows secondary reference to P.E. In any case, this construction 
concern would only be applicable to a component p/s that is built into the 
end-use equipment.

3. " CB documentation does not often list the insulation properties 
Basic/Double/Reinforced. This may have been a reason for further investigation."

Have never seen an IEC60950-1 power supply CBTR that did not define and 
describe the EIS and other isolative components. There are specific line items 
in TRF where this information is required.

4. "Presumably, they were not confident that what was in the sample was the 
same as what was in the CB-certificated sample. Unfortunately, that is very 
often the case."

Inexorably correct. Ya know, due diligence and all of that rot. Would be loath 
to do business with a CBTL that did not require a sample to fondle and gaze at.

5. ".. submitted to IEC 62368-1 instead, pointing to the section in 4.1.1 that 
states that components that comply with IEC 60950-1 or IEC 60065 are 
acceptable.."

Applicable to component p/s that is built into your box. N/A for wal-wart 
without further test unless output rated LPS and/or Class 2.

6. The Klingon national version (K60065-0.1) disallows other than functional 
insulation.

Brian

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 4:29 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

Dear colleagues.

I have submitted a product for CB certification to IEC/EN/UL 60065.
The product is powered from a 12V dc wall wart purchased from an external 
supplier. The power supply is fully CB approved to IEC/EN/UL 60950 and operated 
well within its ratings.
I submitted the CB documentation for the power supply along with the product to 
the safety testing agency.
I am surprised that the testing agency decided to dismantle the power supply 
and thoroughly evaluate it even though it is already pre-approved.
Is this usual and if so why bother with a pre-approved power supply if you are 
going to be paying for it to be tested along with your product?

Your knowledge and experience would be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

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Attachments are no

[PSES] Power Supply Safety approval

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

I have submitted a product for CB certification to IEC/EN/UL 60065.
The product is powered from a 12V dc wall wart purchased from an external 
supplier. The power supply is fully CB approved to IEC/EN/UL 60950 and operated 
well within its ratings.
I submitted the CB documentation for the power supply along with the product to 
the safety testing agency.
I am surprised that the testing agency decided to dismantle the power supply 
and thoroughly evaluate it even though it is already pre-approved.
Is this usual and if so why bother with a pre-approved power supply if you are 
going to be paying for it to be tested along with your product?

Your knowledge and experience would be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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[PSES] Screened room mains filter

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues

I am looking into purchasing a single phase 50/60Hz ac mains input filter for a 
screened room.
However; I am not sure whether to purchase a 2 line multistage filter or a 3 
line.
I'm assuming the filtering is only required on the live and neutral lines as 
the earth should be bonded to the screened room.

Your advice will be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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Re: [PSES] Transformer insulation class

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Adam.

The transformer is one of own designs and we are used to dealing with the 
safety agency regarding material approval documentation.
Although the transformer satisfies class A insulation we would like to run the 
transformer a little hotter in some designs.

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


From: Adam Dixon [mailto:lanterna.viri...@gmail.com]
Sent: 19 May 2016 10:51
To: McBurney, Ian <ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Transformer insulation class

Good morning, Ian,
Are you using an "off-the-shelf" transformer or doing your own transformer 
design?  What additional transformer information was provided to the testing 
agency regarding the design?  My limited experience is that component-level 
specifications with (or without) associated agency certification details are 
provided to the test agency.  Agency evaluates what testing must be done in 
light of component certifications and what data are included in the report 
(critical components list, etc.).  If the transformer was originally 
agency-approved as Class A insulation-rated, then it sounds like you (or your 
transformer supplier) are faced with an amendment cycle to get Class B rating.  
If you are doing your own transformer design, seems very reasonable that your 
materials specification would justify the Class B rating.
Will be interested to hear what the power supply experts say.

Cheers,
Adam in Atlanta

On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 5:03 AM, McBurney, Ian 
<ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>> wrote:
Hello colleagues.

The switch mode transformers we use in our power supplies are specified by the 
testing  agency as insulation class A even though the materials used in the 
transformer are all rated for 130°C operation.
We have asked the agency to up rate the transformer to insulation class B but 
the say they cannot do this as the transformer would have to be approved as a 
component.
Is this correct?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.
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[PSES] Transformer insulation class

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello colleagues.

The switch mode transformers we use in our power supplies are specified by the 
testing  agency as insulation class A even though the materials used in the 
transformer are all rated for 130°C operation.
We have asked the agency to up rate the transformer to insulation class B but 
the say they cannot do this as the transformer would have to be approved as a 
component.
Is this correct?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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[PSES] Latest OJEU

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues

With the implementation of the new EMC & LVD directives this month, does anyone 
know where I can access the latest OJEU to check which standards are listed as 
acceptable for declaring conformity with the new directives.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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[PSES] Bluetooth audio product

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear Colleagues.

I have an audio product that is Powered over Ethernet, has Bluetooth capability 
and has various audio inputs and outputs. The product can be used in a 
residential/consumer environment. I am very familiar with testing audio 
products without wireless capability but this is the first product I have 
encountered with Bluetooth that requires EMC and safety testing.
I believe that when a product has wireless capability that the EMC testing is 
more formal. For example; am I required to use a notified body as I assume the 
RED/RTTE directive will apply? Do I have to register the product with the FCC?
Please can someone advise me regarding the process for the EU and FCC 
compliance.

Many thanks in advance,

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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Re: [PSES] EN 60065 clause 8.17 TIW

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Rich.

Is the 108-606 DC document file available to all or is its access limited to 
certain personnel only?

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: 22 January 2016 00:09
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EN 60065 clause 8.17 TIW


Hi Scott:


At the time the standard was written, the performance of TIW (FIW) was not 
fully understood, so the requirements were the same as for ordinary 
enamel-insulated wire.  The authors took the conservative route.  I suggest 
moving to IEC 62368-1 and invoking 108-606 DC.  (This is what happened to IEC 
60950, too.)


Good luck,
Rich



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Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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unsubscribe)
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Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
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and not necessarily those of the company.

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Re: [PSES] IEC 60950-1 PSU acceptance

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Rich.

The product only consumes 5W so the current is well below the 0.2A limit.
I'm assuming the 0.2A limit is ac mains current.

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: 05 January 2016 18:58
To: McBurney, Ian <ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] IEC 60950-1 PSU acceptance



Hi Ian:


Clause 7.2 only applies if the steady-state current exceeds 0.2 amps.  Is this 
the case with your wall wart?


Happy New Year,
Rich



From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 3:29 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] IEC 60950-1 PSU acceptance

Dear Colleagues.

A happy new year to you all!

I have a problem with a well-known safety testing agency regarding an AC/DC 
"wall wart" type adapter.
The adapter is fully approved to IEC/UL 60950-1 but in this case I am using it 
to power a product that is being evaluated to IEC/UL 60065.

The agency has informed me that the adapter has failed approval due to the 
softening temperature of the insulating material supporting parts of the 
adapter as specified in clause 7.2 of IEC 60065.

I thought there was an agreement that if a power supply met the requirements of 
IEC/UL 60950-1 it would be acceptable for use with products tested to IEC/UL 
60065 provided it was used within its performance specification.

Is this belief incorrect?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.
-


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Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
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and not necessarily those of the company.

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[PSES] IEC 60950-1 PSU acceptance

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear Colleagues.

A happy new year to you all!

I have a problem with a well-known safety testing agency regarding an AC/DC 
"wall wart" type adapter.
The adapter is fully approved to IEC/UL 60950-1 but in this case I am using it 
to power a product that is being evaluated to IEC/UL 60065.

The agency has informed me that the adapter has failed approval due to the 
softening temperature of the insulating material supporting parts of the 
adapter as specified in clause 7.2 of IEC 60065.

I thought there was an agreement that if a power supply met the requirements of 
IEC/UL 60950-1 it would be acceptable for use with products tested to IEC/UL 
60065 provided it was used within its performance specification.

Is this belief incorrect?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] EN55032 definition of residential environment

[McBurney, Ian]

on-consumer (Class A) categories.  In Europe the manufacturer has a similar 
responsibility to make a product that meets the EMC requirements appropriate 
for the intended use of the product. For some products it is more or less up to 
the end user to determine if a Class A or Class B compliant product is 
appropriate.

You will find the Class A warning statement in the EN 55032 standard, Clause 7.

Class A equipment shall have the following warning in the instructions for use, 
to inform the
user of the risk of operating this equipment in a residential environment:

W arning: This equipment is compliant with Class A of CISPR 32. In a residential
environment this equipment may cause radio interference.


Bill Stumpf - Lab / Technical Manager
D.L.S. Electronic Systems, Inc.
166 South Carter Street
Genoa City WI 53128
Ph: 262-279-0210



From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 2:55 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] EN55032 definition of residential environment

Dear colleagues

In the 2015 edition of EN 55032 an interesting statement in clause 4. 
"Equipment intended primarily for use in a residential environment shall meet 
the class B limits. All other equipment shall comply with the Class A limits."
I am unable to locate a definition for residential environment in the standard. 
Does anyone know of an official definition? Would sports stadia, theatres, 
hospitals, commercial industrial estates located in residential housing be 
included in residential environments?
If the product is Class A, is the warning notice still required? "Warning. This 
is a Class A product. In a domestic environment this product may cause radio 
interference in which case the user may be required to take adequate measures." 
This used to be a requirement in EN 55022.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com<mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com>
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

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Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

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<emc-p...@ieee.org>

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Re: [PSES] Test message

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello john;

I received your email today at 12:12 UK time.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: 10 December 2015 14:48
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Test message

I think my posts about EMC environments are not being reflected. Has anyone 
seen my quotes from the Scopes of 61000-6-1 and -2?

With best wishes. OOO - Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh, 
UK www.jmwa.demon.co.uk

-

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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

[PSES] EN55032 definition of residential environment

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues

In the 2015 edition of EN 55032 an interesting statement in clause 4. 
"Equipment intended primarily for use in a residential environment shall meet 
the class B limits. All other equipment shall comply with the Class A limits."
I am unable to locate a definition for residential environment in the standard. 
Does anyone know of an official definition? Would sports stadia, theatres, 
hospitals, commercial industrial estates located in residential housing be 
included in residential environments?
If the product is Class A, is the warning notice still required? "Warning. This 
is a Class A product. In a domestic environment this product may cause radio 
interference in which case the user may be required to take adequate measures." 
This used to be a requirement in EN 55022.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
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Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Rental costs for 1 day in shielded room

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Amund;

I'm a regular customer with a UKAS accredited UK EMC lab and pay £750 per day 
including EMC engineer.
In the UK, I believe £1000 per day + test technician would be a reasonable 
charge.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.


From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: 12 November 2015 13:56
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Rental costs for 1 day in shielded room

Amund,

I think the price you listed for Norway is about average.

We are not a commercial EMC lab but a corporate lab who on occasion does 
outside work for companies in our area. An advantage we have is since we always 
have internal work to do we can charge our outside work by the hour. So if one 
of our customers need a couple hours of testing they don't have to pay for an 
entire shift. And testing other company's products makes life more interesting 
for us.  We charge a flat rate of $300USD per hour for any EMC testing done at 
our lab either in the 10M SAC or in the EMC Lab itself; and we do all the 
testing and report writing. We have report writing software so you walk away 
with your report or we can email it to you. So a full 8 hour shift would be 
$2400USD.

We are in the US Midwest (SW Michigan) and I understand that our prices are 
about the going rate for this area. I've been told that East and West coast 
labs charge a bit more. EMC labs have become quite competitive these days so I 
don't think you'll see a whole lot of difference in price.

I think other factors become more important like a lab's ability to produce 
reliable and repeatable data and the speed in which they can do such testing.  
It's not that unlike finding a good doctor or dentist that you like. And don't 
necessary believe a lab salesmen tells you. Some have become like used car 
salesmen.  So shop around; kick the tires. Take one out for a test drive and 
see if you like it.

Good luck.

The Other Brian


From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 6:38 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Rental costs for 1 day in shielded room

I am a bit curious about the rental price for one day in a shielded room 
(3m/10m semi-anechoic chamber). What are the prices around in EU and US?

Here in the Oslo area (Norway), we pay about NOK 25.000 (ex.vat) for one day 
including lab engineer. Same price for radiated emission and radiated immunity.
NOK 25.000 = EUR 2.700 = GBP 1.900 = USD 2.900


Best regards
Amund


-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas >
Mike Cantwell >

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher >
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LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas >
Mike Cantwell >

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher >
David Heald >

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in 

Re: [PSES] Rental costs for 1 day in shielded room

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Brian;

The EMC facility I use has a 10m OATS, a 3m semi anechoic and a 3m fully 
anechoic room. I mainly carry out my testing in the 3m semi anechoic room and 
extrapolate the results for 10m. 10m OATS sites in the UK tend to be quite 
"polluted" with ambient rf. The facility is also accredited for defence EMC 
testing but I have no experience of this type of testing.

Kind regards;

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.


From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: 13 November 2015 13:09
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Rental costs for 1 day in shielded room

Ian,

Out of curiosity, does this UK lab do compliance testing on a 10 meter OATS or 
SAC?  In our area, testing at an OATS is much cheaper but it takes longer.

This brings up a good point. In addition to cost, one must consider the type of 
test facility and if they meet your needs. You would expect to pay more for a 
10 meter test site over a 3 meter site (pre-compliance?). If you are just 
performing a single scan an OATS might be cheaper, but if you are 
troubleshooting the extra cost of a SAC would be money well spent since you can 
run a scan in only a few minutes.

There are many other factors as well. The size of the turntable; in case you 
have a large EUT or setup. How much weight can it handle? What kind of power 
they have? 50hz and 60hz? Can they provide water or compressed air (or other 
gases) for the EUT? Can they handle heavy floor mounted machines or EE? What 
all EMC test can be performed and at what power levels?

It would be nice if there was a single source such as a website that would 
provide a lot of this kind of information. The EMC Lab listing published in the 
latest issue of Interference Technology comes pretty close to this. Check it 
out.

The Other Brian

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 6:40 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Rental costs for 1 day in shielded room

Hello Amund;

I'm a regular customer with a UKAS accredited UK EMC lab and pay £750 per day 
including EMC engineer.
In the UK, I believe £1000 per day + test technician would be a reasonable 
charge.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.


From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: 12 November 2015 13:56
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Rental costs for 1 day in shielded room

Amund,

I think the price you listed for Norway is about average.

We are not a commercial EMC lab but a corporate lab who on occasion does 
outside work for companies in our area. An advantage we have is since we always 
have internal work to do we can charge our outside work by the hour. So if one 
of our customers need a couple hours of testing they don't have to pay for an 
entire shift. And testing other company's products makes life more interesting 
for us.  We charge a flat rate of $300USD per hour for any EMC testing done at 
our lab either in the 10M SAC or in the EMC Lab itself; and we do all the 
testing and report writing. We have report writing software so you walk away 
with your report or we can email it to you. So a full 8 hour shift would be 
$2400USD.

We are in the US Midwest (SW Michigan) and I understand that our prices are 
about the going rate for this area. I've been told that East and West coast 
labs charge a bit more. EMC labs have become quite competitive these days so I 
don't think you'll see a whole lot of difference in price.

I think other factors become more important like a lab's ability to produce 
reliable and repeatable data and the speed in which they can do such testing.  
It's not that unlike finding a good doctor or dentist that you like. And don't 
necessary believe a lab salesmen tells you. Some have become like used car 
salesmen.  So shop around; kick the tires. Take one out for a test drive and 
see if you like it.

Good luck.

The Other Brian


From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 6:38 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] Rental costs for 1 day in shielded room

I am a bit curious about the rental price for one day in a shielded room 
(3m/10m semi-anechoic chamber). What are the prices around in EU and US?

Here in the Oslo area (Norway), we pay about NOK 25.000 (ex.vat) for one day 
including lab engineer. Same price for radiated emission and radiated immunity.
NOK 25.000 = EUR 2.700 = GBP 1.900 = USD 2.900


Best regards
Amund


-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
<emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived

[PSES] FCC Labelling

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues;

I know this question has been asked before but would I be correct in stating 
that under the FCC labelling requirements that if a product is deemed compliant 
in the Verification category for an unintentional radiator that it is not 
permitted to mark the product with the FCC mark but you must apply the 
statement " This device complies with Part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is 
subject to the following two conditions: (1) this device may not cause harmful 
interference, and (2) this device must accept any interference received, 
including interference that may cause undesired operation."

>From my understanding; in the unintentional radiator subpart only products in 
>the Declaration of Conformity or Certification categories can apply the FCC 
>mark to a product or its documentation.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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[PSES] Thank you to Rodney Davis

[McBurney, Ian]

Many thanks to Rodney Davis for his help with my Level VI USA Energy efficiency 
enquiry.

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
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[PSES] USA Level VI energy efficiency regulations

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues;

I understand that this question is slightly off topic but someone might know 
the answer.
For USA level VI energy efficiency regulations, are power supplies intended for 
professional use only included within the regulations or can they be exempted?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design & Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
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[PSES] UL updates

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues;

Can anyone let me know if there is website that lists all the amendments and 
updates to a particular standard.
In this case I am interested to know all the latest updates to UL 60065.

Many thanks in advance;

Ian McBurney
Design  Compliance Engineer.

Allen  Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen  Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
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[PSES] US energy efficiency regulations level VI

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

Although not strictly an EMC or safety question I am hoping someone might be 
able to help.
The new US DOE Energy Efficiency regulations for external power supplies (EPS 
level VI) are due to become mandatory in February 2016 and now include 
multi-output external power supplies.
These regulations had an amendment added in December 2014 clarifying the supply 
of spare power supplies to existing equipment: The EPS Service Parts Act 
HR5057 2014.
What is not made clear to me in this amendment is the supply of multi-output 
external power supplies as spares for existing equipment that does not meet the 
requirements of Level VI. It mainly deals with single output EPS.
As a manufacturer with a number of legacy products still in use and powered by 
multi output power supplies that do not meet the requirements of level VI, are 
we allowed to manufacture and distribute spares to the original design.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design  Compliance Engineer.

Allen  Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen  Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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Re: [PSES] Rear panel marking

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Rich;

This is why I would like an independent arbitration service whose decision 
would be binding on both sides.
The testing agency I use is a large international organisation that I have been 
using for  15+ years.
The product in question is an audio mixer for professional use that will be at 
the centre of an large audio system of many kW.
They have tested this product several times before as it has been in production 
for more than 4 years. This is the first time this issue has arisen.
They don't care about how this will affect our production or stock quantities.
This is just another exasperating example of testing agencies lack of common 
sense.
On the same product I have to send circuit details for a CR2032 coin cell use 
in memory back up on a  processor board!

Many thanks;

Ian McBurney
Design  Compliance Engineer.

Allen  Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com



-Original Message-
From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: 21 January 2014 19:26
To: McBurney, Ian; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Rear panel marking



Dear Ian:


You have entered a contest of wills.

The situation is not a contest of what is safe or not safe.

The situation is not a contest of compliance to the standard or not.

The test house, having taken a position, cannot be argued into giving up its 
position without losing face.

I advise you to sit down with the test house and explain to them the 
consequences to your company of their position. Negotiate some kind of plan 
that is acceptable to your company and to the test house. Go into the 
negotiations with several plans (like producing x units until the marking can 
be changed; like pasting a label over the max; asking for a variance; etc.).

Don't argue safety or compliance. You won't win.


Good luck!
Rich


ps: Markings are aggravating.

Ratings and rating markings are not particularly significant to the safety of 
products or to the user of the products.
Ratings are chosen by the manufacturer. There is never any reason to choose a 
rating that is more than two significant digits. The only criterion is that the 
measured input power or current not exceed the marked rating by more than 10%.
10% accuracy is okay, 20% would be better.

What is the use of the rating markings and the measurement for cord-connected 
equipment? If it has a cord, we plug it in; the user pays no attention to the 
rating markings. The safety test house uses the test data to determine that the 
primary components are suitably rated. End. Yet, the marking requirements in 
the standard bind you to examine the rating markings, and deny certification if 
the markings don't agree with the standard.



On 1/21/2014 8:09 AM, McBurney, Ian wrote:

 Dear colleagues.

 We have a product that is marked Max Power 80W on the rear panel.

 I have been informed by the testing agency that this is not compliant 
 with the requirements of IEC 60065 because the actual power 
 consumption is 82.1W.

 The clause in the standard allows for a 10% tolerance but I am told by 
 the testing agency because the rear panel states Max Power this 
 tolerance doesn't apply.

 Is this correct and can anyone let me know if there is a tolerance 
 figure as power consumption varies slightly with ac input voltage.

 Many thanks in advance.

 Ian McBurney

 Design  Compliance Engineer.

 Allen  Heath Ltd.

 Kernick Industrial Estate,

 Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK

 T: 01326 372070

 E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


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[PSES] Rear panel marking

[McBurney, Ian]

Dear colleagues.

We have a product that is marked Max Power 80W on the rear panel.
I have been informed by the testing agency that this is not compliant with the 
requirements of IEC 60065 because the actual power consumption is 82.1W.
The clause in the standard allows for a 10%  tolerance but I am told by the 
testing agency because the rear panel states Max Power this tolerance doesn't 
apply.
Is this correct and can anyone let me know if there is a tolerance figure as 
power consumption varies slightly with ac input voltage.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design  Compliance Engineer.

Allen  Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com



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Re: [PSES] Cooling fan safety query

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Rich;

Can I suggest to the safety testing agency to disconnect or stall the fan rotor 
for all testing? Would this then mean the CFM rating for the cooling fan would 
not be required?

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Design  Compliance Engineer.

Allen  Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: 13 December 2013 20:06
To: McBurney, Ian; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Cooling fan safety query



Hello Ian:


The first question is whether or not the fan is necessary
to meet the temperature requirements of the standard.

If yes, then the fan and its alternates must be tested to
prove that the end-product meets the temperature requirements.
A UL-certified fan should reduce the testing requirements.

The fact that you put a resistor in series with the motor
does not affect this requirement.  However, in stalled rotor
condition, the resistor must not exceed its power rating.

The CFM rating of the fan is not applicable with a resistor
in series with the fan.  So, if meeting temperature requirements
with the fan, it would be necessary to meet temperature
requirements with each different fan (because the CFM cannot be
predicted with a resistor in series).  Model numbers of tested
fans would be required, although I don't know why the CFM rating
of each fan would be required since compliance with the
temperature requirements would not be dependent on the CFM
rating.

If no, then the fan can be removed (or disconnected) and the
end-product should meet all the applicable safety requirements,
including the temperature requirements.  Under this condition,
the fan is just another functional component.  Ask the cert
house to perform all testing without the fan.

However, the fans should meet the stalled rotor requirements
and, if applicable, the plastic flame rating requirements.  These
should be a part of the UL certification.  Also, the series
resistor must be rated for the power dissipation in the stalled
rotor condition.  This may require testing each alternate fan;
if so, each different fan must be identified.


With best wishes for the holiday season,
Rich


On 12/13/2013 2:02 AM, McBurney, Ian wrote:
This is a question for the safety testing engineers.

We have products that contain 12V/24V DC cooling fans that cool either the PSU 
or processing circuits.
The fan speeds are reduced with basically a series resistor to reduce audio 
noise.
The safety testing agency demands to know the exact model number and CFM of 
each fan even though the products continue to function during the stalled rotor 
test. Obviously there is temperature rise within the product.
My question is why does the agency list the exact model number and CFM rating 
of the fan even though it doesn't run at full speed and the product continues 
to function with a stalled rotor.
We have to use alternative fans due to supply issues and this incurs 
considerable test agency costs as the agency won't accept a manufacturers range 
of fans without testing each one.
All fans used are UL listed and the products are tested to IEC/UL 60065.

Your comments would be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design  Compliance Engineer.

Allen  Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.commailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


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[PSES] Cooling fan safety query

[McBurney, Ian]

This is a question for the safety testing engineers.

We have products that contain 12V/24V DC cooling fans that cool either the PSU 
or processing circuits.
The fan speeds are reduced with basically a series resistor to reduce audio 
noise.
The safety testing agency demands to know the exact model number and CFM of 
each fan even though the products continue to function during the stalled rotor 
test. Obviously there is temperature rise within the product.
My question is why does the agency list the exact model number and CFM rating 
of the fan even though it doesn't run at full speed and the product continues 
to function with a stalled rotor.
We have to use alternative fans due to supply issues and this incurs 
considerable test agency costs as the agency won't accept a manufacturers range 
of fans without testing each one.
All fans used are UL listed and the products are tested to IEC/UL 60065.

Your comments would be appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Design  Compliance Engineer.

Allen  Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com



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Re: [PSES] Cooling fan safety query

[McBurney, Ian]

John;

I believe the fans are listed for the flammability of the plastic body but I 
may be wrong.

Ian McBurney
Design  Compliance Engineer.

Allen  Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] 
Sent: 13 December 2013 10:34
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Cooling fan safety query

In message
80f690de07894e049b221728b4a99...@dbxpr07mb206.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
, dated Fri, 13 Dec 2013, McBurney, Ian ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com
writes:

We have to use alternative fans due to supply issues and this incurs 
considerable test agency costs as the agency won?t accept a 
manufacturers range of fans without testing each one.

On what grounds are they re-testing when the fans are UL-listed?
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Nondum ex 
silvis sumus John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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Re: [PSES] Cooling fan safety query

[McBurney, Ian]

John;

I agree the airflow rates will vary with applied voltage and blade profile but 
if the product continues to function safely with a stalled rotor why does it 
have to be listed in the critical component list.

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Design  Compliance Engineer.

Allen  Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com



-Original Message-
From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] 
Sent: 13 December 2013 13:31
To: McBurney, Ian; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Cooling fan safety query

Ian

I think the critical factor may be the airflow rates at the reduced voltages as 
this may well vary between various ostensibly similar fans of the same nominal 
voltage.

The actual airflow patterns from the outputs of the various fans may also 
differ due to differing blade profiles, etc.

Regards

John Allen
Compliance with Experience
W.London. UK

-Original Message-
From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: 13 December 2013 11:05
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Cooling fan safety query

John;

I believe the fans are listed for the flammability of the plastic body but I 
may be wrong.

Ian McBurney
Design  Compliance Engineer.

Allen  Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: 13 December 2013 10:34
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Cooling fan safety query

In message
80f690de07894e049b221728b4a99...@dbxpr07mb206.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
, dated Fri, 13 Dec 2013, McBurney, Ian ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com
writes:

We have to use alternative fans due to supply issues and this incurs 
considerable test agency costs as the agency won?t accept a 
manufacturers range of fans without testing each one.

On what grounds are they re-testing when the fans are UL-listed?
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Nondum ex 
silvis sumus John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

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Re: [PSES] Cooling fan safety query

[McBurney, Ian]

John;

I have often asked for the reasoning to many similar problems and get directed 
to an ambiguous clause in the standard that I read one way and the agency reads 
the other way and because there is no independent arbiter  I end up acquiescing 
as the whole process slows down and I am on a tight deadline to market.

regards

Ian McBurney
Design  Compliance Engineer.

Allen  Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com



-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] 
Sent: 13 December 2013 14:18
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Cooling fan safety query

In message
ff0018ae2af54a2b95bfa760f8747...@dbxpr07mb206.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
, dated Fri, 13 Dec 2013, McBurney, Ian ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com
writes:

but if the product continues to function safely with a stalled rotor 
why does it have to be listed in the critical component list.

Why does the test house say it does? They have to justify their opinions. We 
can only guess, and even if we guess right, you are no further forward. You 
have to get their reason, in their words, and refute it.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Nondum ex 
silvis sumus John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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[PSES] EMC requirements for Japan

[McBurney, Ian [Allen Heath UK]]

Dear colleagues;

Can anyone give me some advice regarding EMC regulatory requirements for 
commercial products in Japan. Are there any mandatory requirements?
Is there a government organisation that issues proclamations regarding product 
EMC compliance.
Is there a memorandum of understanding recognising CISPR22 testing methods or 
are there specific Japanese measurement methods  standards.

Many thanks in advance

Ian McBurney
Design  Compliance Engineer.

Allen  Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com



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[PSES] Retesting to latest standards

[Mcburney, Ian]

Dear Colleagues;

I know this question has been ask before so please humour me.
We have an old product that was tested to the 1996 version of EN 55103 parts 1 
 2.
The latest versions are dated 2009 with some changes to testing.
Am I required to retest the product to the new version even though there have 
been no changes to it since its original introduction.

Many thanks in advance

Ian McBurney
Design Engineer

Allen  Heath Ltd
Kernick Industrial Estate
Penryn, Cornwall
TR10 9LU
United Kingdom

+44 (0)1326 370121

ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.commailto:ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.com
www.allen-heath.comhttp://www.allen-heath.com/
A DMH Pro Companyhttp://www.dmh-global.com/.


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[PSES] POE creepage clearances

[Mcburney, Ian]

Dear colleagues

We are developing a hand held product that is powered from +48V DC over 
Ethernet or from an external +12V DC wall wart PSU. The maximum internal 
voltage will be the +48V POE.
Can anyone let me know what the creepage and clearance requirements between the 
primary Ethernet circuit and the secondary circuit.
The product will be tested to IEC 60950 or possibly IEC 60065 so I am assuming 
a safety isolation creepage  clearance is required.

Many thanks in advance;

Ian McBurney
Design Engineer

Allen  Heath Ltd
Kernick Industrial Estate
Penryn, Cornwall
TR10 9LU
United Kingdom

+44 (0)1326 370121

ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.commailto:ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.com
www.allen-heath.comhttp://www.allen-heath.com/
A DMH Pro Companyhttp://www.dmh-global.com/.


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Re: [PSES] POE creepage clearances

[Mcburney, Ian]

Hello John;

The front  rear panel is painted metal. The base  sides are a plastic 
moulding.
So yes; the secondary circuit is electrically accessible to the user as the 
circuit board is mounted to the front panel using metal pillars.

I have not started applying IEC 62368-1 as the testing agency I use has not 
recommend it. Is IEC 62368-1 the preferred option as opposed to IEC 60065 
/60950 with most testing agencies now?

Regards;

Ian McBurney
Design Engineer

Allen  Heath Ltd
Kernick Industrial Estate
Penryn, Cornwall
TR10 9LU
United Kingdom

+44 (0)1326 370121

ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.com
www.allen-heath.com
A DMH Pro Company.

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate
Sent: 23 November 2012 11:40
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: POE creepage  clearances

In message
7b970d3d82cee74c920c2e6b0d3b837720be4...@sn2prd0610mb358.namprd06.prod.o
utlook.com, dated Fri, 23 Nov 2012, Mcburney, Ian 
ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.com writes:

We are developing a hand held product that is powered from +48V DC over 
Ethernet or from an external +12V DC wall wart PSU. The maximum 
internal voltage will be the +48V POE.

Can anyone let me know what the creepage and clearance requirements 
between the ?primary? Ethernet circuit and the ?secondary? circuit.

Insufficient data. Is the secondary circuit electrically accessible to the user?

The product will be tested to IEC 60950 or possibly IEC 60065 so I am 
assuming a safety isolation creepage  clearance is required.

Do you not have those standards (60950-1 and 60065)? You should be looking at 
IEC 62368-1 as well for a new product development.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk The longer it takes to make a 
point, the more obtuse it proves to be.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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[PSES] Product safety requirements

[Mcburney, Ian]

Dear Colleagues

We are a manufacturer of audio mixing consoles with a range that varies from A4 
size up to large 2m long 2 man lift consoles.
Most have internal ac/dc power supplies.
We are researching changing the way we power are future products to rationalise 
the psu range as worldwide approval costs increase.
One of the options is to purchase 60-80W PC laptop power supplies and power the 
smaller mixers from the DC output of the external laptop supply.
The DC output voltage from a laptop PSU is typically 19V. However; most mixers 
require typically +/-15V, +10V  +48V internal voltage rails.
We propose to buck regulate the +/-15V and +10V rails  boost the +48V rail 
from the 19V DC input.
If the total power consumption of the mixer was no more than 80W and the +48V 
was current limited to no more than 1 Amp, would the mixer require approval 
testing for north America or any other country as the input voltage would only 
be 19V DC.
Obviously the external ac to dc laptop power supply would have all the 
necessary approvals; probably to IEC60950 and be class 1 construction.

Your opinions would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance;

Ian McBurney
Design Engineer

Allen  Heath Ltd
Kernick Industrial Estate
Penryn, Cornwall
TR10 9LU
United Kingdom

+44 (0)1326 370121

ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.commailto:ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.com
www.allen-heath.comhttp://www.allen-heath.com/
A DMH Pro Companyhttp://www.dmh-global.com/.


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Re: [PSES] FW: [PSES] EU sets EMC limits for London Olympics

[Mcburney, Ian]

ALL

If you're aged 75 or more, you don't have to pay for a Licence.

Ian McBurney
Design Engineer



Allen  Heath Ltd
Kernick Industrial Estate
Penryn, Cornwall
TR10 9LU
United Kingdom

+44 (0)1326 370121

ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.com
www.allen-heath.com
A DMH Pro Company.

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Cotman
Sent: 09 August 2012 09:31
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] FW: [PSES] EU sets EMC limits for London Olympics

 A nice touch with the TV licence is the reduced rate you get if you are 
registered blind.

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk]
Sent: 08 August 2012 21:55
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] FW: [PSES] EU sets EMC limits for London Olympics

In message
64D32EE8B9CBDD44963ACB076A5F6ABB026264C4@Mailbox-Tech.lecotech.local,
dated Wed, 8 Aug 2012, Kunde, Brian brian_ku...@lecotc.com writes:

Is the TV License a onetime deal or to you have to renew it on an 
annual bases like a dog license?

Renew every year, but we don't have dog licences any more.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Instead 
of saying that the government is doing too little, too late or too much, too 
early, say they've got is exactly right, thus throwing them into total 
confusion.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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[PSES] FCC maximum frequency measurement

[Mcburney, Ian]

Dear Colleagues;

I would like to thank all those who contributed to answering my query regarding 
the maximum measurement frequency for FCC compliance. In particular; thank you 
to Bill Stumpf for the FCC document.

Thank you;

Ian McBurney
Design Engineer

Allen  Heath Ltd
Kernick Industrial Estate
Penryn, Cornwall
TR10 9LU
United Kingdom

+44 (0)1326 370121

ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.commailto:ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.com
www.allen-heath.comhttp://www.allen-heath.com/
A DMH Pro Companyhttp://www.dmh-global.com/.


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[PSES] FCC maximum frequency measurement

[Mcburney, Ian]

Dear Colleagues;

I am trying to establish the maximum measurement frequency for radiated 
emissions for a digital device that is an unintentional radiator (part 15).
Is it set by the highest frequency generated internally in a microprocessor or 
DSP or is it the maximum frequency that is tracked chip to chip on a PCB.
Some of our components have high frequency internal clocking relative to PCB 
tracked clocking.

Thank you in advance

Ian McBurney
Design Engineer

Allen  Heath Ltd
Kernick Industrial Estate
Penryn, Cornwall
TR10 9LU
United Kingdom

+44 (0)1326 370121

ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.commailto:ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.com
www.allen-heath.comhttp://www.allen-heath.com/
A DMH Pro Companyhttp://www.dmh-global.com/.


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[PSES] FCC labelling

[Mcburney, Ian]

Dear Colleagues;

I'm sure this question has been asked before but I can't remember the answer.
My question concerns FCC labelling spare PCB assemblies.
These can be multilayer high speed processor boards shipped as spares to be 
fitted into equipment that is already FCC labelled.
Would the packaging or PCB assembly have to be FCC labelled if the part were 
being shipped from outside the USA?
The spare assembly can only be used in our own equipment.

Many thanks in advance.


Ian McBurney
Design Engineer

Allen  Heath Ltd
Kernick Industrial Estate
Penryn, Cornwall
TR10 9LU
United Kingdom

+44 (0)1326 370121

ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.commailto:ian.mcbur...@dmh-global.com
www.allen-heath.comhttp://www.allen-heath.com/
A DMH Pro Companyhttp://www.dmh-global.com/.


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Thanks - PSE approval of wall wart PSU.

[McBurney, Ian [Allen Heath UK]]

Dear colleagues;

 

I would like to thank all those who replied to my PSE approval query in
particular Peter Merguerian and Jim Goedderz.

 

Thanks;

 

Ian McBurney.

Allen  Heath Ltd.

email:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

 

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PSE approval of wall wart PSU.

[McBurney, Ian [Allen Heath UK]]

Dear colleagues;

 

We are shipping a “wall wart” style psu bought in from a separate supplier
with one of our own products.

Our distributor in Japan requires the psu to be PSE marked.

The supplier of the psu has modified the psu rating label with the PSE diamond
and also put on the name of our distributor in Japan.

Is this correct? Are we required to name the Japanese distributor of our
product on the psu? If we have more than one distributor in Japan, do we have
to put both names on the label or have separate labels.

I look forward to you advice.

 

Thanks;

 

Ian McBurney.

Allen  Heath Ltd.

email:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

 

P Please consider the environment - do you really need to print this email? 

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immediately. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email
are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Allen 
Heath Limited. 

This email has been checked for the presence of viruses using Sophos AV
Scanner. Anti-virus updates are downloaded on a daily basis . The recipient
should also check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses.
Allen  Heath Limited accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus
transmitted via this email. 

This email has been sent from Allen  heath Limited, registered in England,
reg. no:4163451. VAT Number GB 876 3336 94. 

Registered Address: Kernick Industrial Estate, Penryn, Cornwall. UK. TR10 9LU. 

*** 

 

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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 

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LED lamps

[McBurney, Ian [Allen Heath UK]]

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Heath Limited. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for
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***


Dear Group;

Many thanks to all those who responded to my query in particular John
Jankowski and Richard Schumacher.

Dear Group;

My company is in the process of designing a low voltage gooseneck lamp using
super bright white LEDs. I have been informed that LEDs are now classed as
laser devices and are subject to specific standards. Can anyone let me know
which standards will apply to this product as it is intended to be sold
worldwide?

Many thanks;

Ian McBurney.

Allen  Heath Limited.

email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

LED lamps

[McBurney, Ian [Allen Heath UK]]

***LEGAL DISCLAIMER: READ THIS FIRST***

This Email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual to whom or the entity to which they are
addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender
immediately. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email
are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Allen 
Heath Limited. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for
the presence of viruses. Allen  Heath Limited accepts no liability for any
damage caused by any virus transmitted via this email. 

***


Dear Group;

My company is in the process of designing a low voltage gooseneck lamp using
super bright white LEDs. I have been informed that LEDs are now classed as
laser devices and are subject to specific standards. Can anyone let me know
which standards will apply to this product as it is intended to be sold
worldwide?

Many thanks;

Ian McBurney.

Allen  Heath Limited.

email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com

Stripline design

[McBurney, Ian [Allen Heath UK]]

Does anyone have fabrication drawings for a 150mm Stripline they could send
me. I am keen to construct one from aluminium sheet.

thanks

Ian McBurney.

Allen   Heath Ltd.

email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


***DISCLAIMER***
This Email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual to whom or the entity to which they are
addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender
immediately. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email
are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Allen 
Heath Limited. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for
the presence of viruses. Allen  Heath Limited accepts no liability for any
damage caused by any virus transmitted via this email. 

Superseded standard

[McBurney, Ian [Allen Heath UK]]

Sirs;

Can anyone tell me when products tested to EN 50082-1:1992 and still in
production should have been retested because the 1992 standard has now been
superseded.

I assume any reports and declaration of conformity documents issued for
products declaring conformity with EN 50082-1:1992 are now not legitimate.

Ian McBurney.

Allen   Heath Ltd.

email: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


***DISCLAIMER***
This Email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual to whom or the entity to which they are
addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender
immediately. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email
are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Allen 
Heath Limited. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for
the presence of viruses. Allen  Heath Limited accepts no liability for any
damage caused by any virus transmitted via this email.