Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for safety

[Douglas Powell]

Of course, I think we all understand, or at least I hope so, that
artificial intelligence cannot replace real humans in the world of product
safety engineering. My previous email was intended to jokingly point out
its shortcomings. And I had thought this would be obvious.

As for the future of artificial intelligence, I personally think there is
still a very long way to go. Keeping that in mind, all the different AIs,
not just ChatGPT, Bard, AI Writer, and Perplexity, were trained on limited
information, mostly from the WWW. A good friend of mine once described
the WWW as the world's largest repository of unqualified information
(thanks, Brian H). Last time I checked, ChatGPT-3 had a large training size
of 570 GB. ChatGPT-4 is apparently trained on about five times more than
that and is still ongoing. Although this is massive, it is certainly not
all that is available on the Internet or in the rest of the world's
libraries. The last time I checked, the available data on the WWW is
measured in exabytes (EB), and the annual transfer of data is in the range
of zettabytes (ZB), with much of this contained within daily email and
streaming media.  Even so, all this AI training is based on dated
information, which means it has no capacity for innovation whatsoever.

Even today, a close friend who is a professor of astrophysics is part of an
effort to understand when students who may be taking tests or
writing theses may be using AI to produce their answers. This is even
making software-based plagiarism detection, currently used by
our universities, very difficult.

-Doug

(Note: This email was written with the assistance of AI-based plagiarism
detection, summarization, and authoring tools)

Douglas E Powell
Laporte, Colorado USA
doug...@gmail.com
LinkedIn 

(UTC -06:00, US-MDT)



On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 7:27 AM Elliott Martinson 
wrote:

> ChatGPT is not “artificial intelligence”. It’s a “word calculator” IMO and
> I have a strong CS background.
>
>
>
> *From:* Vincent Lee <08e6c8d35910-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
> *Sent:* Saturday, June 10, 2023 8:45 AM
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards
> for safety
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> ChatGPT is NOT specifically designed for product safety purposes.
>
> It can only give very general results, then it is the job of product
> safety professionals to add the missing details.
>
>
>
> In my work, I don't use ChatGPT, since it is not a tool designed for
> product safety which is a highly specialized engineering field.
>
> In my view, ChatGPT is a toy to ask for very general questions. It cannot
> replace product safety professionals. Moreover, who is going to be
> responsible if a product fails and causes harms to users when one used the
> test plan generated by ChatGPT ?
>
>
>
> Regards, Vincent
>
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 03:15:19 AM GMT+8, Douglas Powell <
> doug...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Aside from all the news articles about problems with ChatGPT, I've tried a
> few things myself.  For example, "*write a complete test protocol for IEC
> 62368-1 for a desktop audio streaming amplifier weighing less than 7 kg.*
> "
>
>
>
> Of course, gave me a fairtly detailed but generally incomplete responses
> under these topic headings.
>
>
>
> 1. Objective:
>
> 2. Test Equipment:
>
> 3. Test Setup:
>
> 4. Test Procedures:
>
> 4.1.2. Lifting Test:
>
> 4.2.1. Ground Continuity Test:
>
> 4.2.2. Insulation Resistance Test:
>
> 4.2.3. Dielectric Voltage-Withstand Test:
>
> 4.3.1. Audio Performance Test:
>
> 4.3.2. Power Consumption Test:
>
> 4.4. Environmental Tests (if applicable):
>
> 5. Test Criteria:
>
> 6. ... *after this point it was left blank ...*
>
>
>
> In fun example is the 4.1.2 Lifting Test, it specified: "Apply a force of
> 200 N in the upward direction"
>
>
>
> -Doug
>
>
>
>
>
> Douglas E Powell
>
> Laporte, Colorado USA
>
> LinkedIn 
>
>
>
> (UTC -06:00, US-MDT)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 11:49 AM Chuck August-McDowell <
> chu...@meyersound.com> wrote:
>
> Friday’s attempt at humor…
>
> So how about using the text generator ChatGPT to write the standard draft?
>
>
>
>
>
> Chuck in Berkeley
>
>
>
> *From:* Vincent Lee <08e6c8d35910-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 8, 2023 7:05 PM
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO
> standards for safety
>
>
>
> [THIS EMAIL IS FROM AN EXTERNAL SENDER]
>
> Huff,
>
>
>
> No national nor international is available yet.
>
>
>
> AI is more closely related to computer science than product safety.
>
> And who knows AI may experience another winter, since there were AI winter
> in 1980s - 1990s.
>
>
>
> Regards, Vincent
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 10:37:35 PM GMT+8, David Huff <
> dh...@vermeer.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> All,
>
> I 

Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for safety

[Elliott Martinson]

The fundamental problem with ChatGPT’s architecture is that it axiomatically 
CANNOT “know” what any words mean. Without there being a conscious observer to 
actually associate words with sensory experiences, it might as well be 
gibberish for all the algorithm cares. It doesn’t “know” anything.

From: Elliott Martinson 
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2023 8:27 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for 
safety

ChatGPT is not “artificial intelligence”. It’s a “word calculator” IMO and I 
have a strong CS background.

From: Vincent Lee 
<08e6c8d35910-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2023 8:45 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for 
safety

Hi all,

ChatGPT is NOT specifically designed for product safety purposes.
It can only give very general results, then it is the job of product safety 
professionals to add the missing details.

In my work, I don't use ChatGPT, since it is not a tool designed for product 
safety which is a highly specialized engineering field.
In my view, ChatGPT is a toy to ask for very general questions. It cannot 
replace product safety professionals. Moreover, who is going to be responsible 
if a product fails and causes harms to users when one used the test plan 
generated by ChatGPT ?

Regards, Vincent


On Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 03:15:19 AM GMT+8, Douglas Powell 
mailto:doug...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Aside from all the news articles about problems with ChatGPT, I've tried a few 
things myself.  For example, "write a complete test protocol for IEC 62368-1 
for a desktop audio streaming amplifier weighing less than 7 kg."

Of course, gave me a fairtly detailed but generally incomplete responses under 
these topic headings.

1. Objective:
2. Test Equipment:
3. Test Setup:
4. Test Procedures:
4.1.2. Lifting Test:
4.2.1. Ground Continuity Test:
4.2.2. Insulation Resistance Test:
4.2.3. Dielectric Voltage-Withstand Test:
4.3.1. Audio Performance Test:
4.3.2. Power Consumption Test:
4.4. Environmental Tests (if applicable):
5. Test Criteria:
6. ... after this point it was left blank ...

In fun example is the 4.1.2 Lifting Test, it specified: "Apply a force of 200 N 
in the upward direction"

-Doug


Douglas E Powell
Laporte, Colorado USA
LinkedIn

(UTC -06:00, US-MDT)


On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 11:49 AM Chuck August-McDowell 
mailto:chu...@meyersound.com>> wrote:

Friday’s attempt at humor…

So how about using the text generator ChatGPT to write the standard draft?





Chuck in Berkeley



From: Vincent Lee 
<08e6c8d35910-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2023 7:05 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for 
safety



[THIS EMAIL IS FROM AN EXTERNAL SENDER]

Huff,



No national nor international is available yet.



AI is more closely related to computer science than product safety.

And who knows AI may experience another winter, since there were AI winter in 
1980s - 1990s.



Regards, Vincent





On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 10:37:35 PM GMT+8, David Huff 
mailto:dh...@vermeer.com>> wrote:





All,

I am working to guide a design that uses Artificial Intelligence and machine 
vision thru a certification type process (CE Mark) and I am looking for ISO or 
IEC standards or similar related guidance.  My theory is that this is such new 
territory very little guidance exists yet.  Are there any recommendations for 
international guidance.



Thanks,

David



-


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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All 

Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for safety

[Elliott Martinson]

ChatGPT is not “artificial intelligence”. It’s a “word calculator” IMO and I 
have a strong CS background.

From: Vincent Lee <08e6c8d35910-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2023 8:45 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for 
safety

Hi all,

ChatGPT is NOT specifically designed for product safety purposes.
It can only give very general results, then it is the job of product safety 
professionals to add the missing details.

In my work, I don't use ChatGPT, since it is not a tool designed for product 
safety which is a highly specialized engineering field.
In my view, ChatGPT is a toy to ask for very general questions. It cannot 
replace product safety professionals. Moreover, who is going to be responsible 
if a product fails and causes harms to users when one used the test plan 
generated by ChatGPT ?

Regards, Vincent


On Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 03:15:19 AM GMT+8, Douglas Powell 
mailto:doug...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Aside from all the news articles about problems with ChatGPT, I've tried a few 
things myself.  For example, "write a complete test protocol for IEC 62368-1 
for a desktop audio streaming amplifier weighing less than 7 kg."

Of course, gave me a fairtly detailed but generally incomplete responses under 
these topic headings.

1. Objective:
2. Test Equipment:
3. Test Setup:
4. Test Procedures:
4.1.2. Lifting Test:
4.2.1. Ground Continuity Test:
4.2.2. Insulation Resistance Test:
4.2.3. Dielectric Voltage-Withstand Test:
4.3.1. Audio Performance Test:
4.3.2. Power Consumption Test:
4.4. Environmental Tests (if applicable):
5. Test Criteria:
6. ... after this point it was left blank ...

In fun example is the 4.1.2 Lifting Test, it specified: "Apply a force of 200 N 
in the upward direction"

-Doug


Douglas E Powell
Laporte, Colorado USA
LinkedIn

(UTC -06:00, US-MDT)


On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 11:49 AM Chuck August-McDowell 
mailto:chu...@meyersound.com>> wrote:

Friday’s attempt at humor…

So how about using the text generator ChatGPT to write the standard draft?





Chuck in Berkeley



From: Vincent Lee 
<08e6c8d35910-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2023 7:05 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for 
safety



[THIS EMAIL IS FROM AN EXTERNAL SENDER]

Huff,



No national nor international is available yet.



AI is more closely related to computer science than product safety.

And who knows AI may experience another winter, since there were AI winter in 
1980s - 1990s.



Regards, Vincent





On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 10:37:35 PM GMT+8, David Huff 
mailto:dh...@vermeer.com>> wrote:





All,

I am working to guide a design that uses Artificial Intelligence and machine 
vision thru a certification type process (CE Mark) and I am looking for ISO or 
IEC standards or similar related guidance.  My theory is that this is such new 
territory very little guidance exists yet.  Are there any recommendations for 
international guidance.



Thanks,

David



-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
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To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC 

Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for safety

[John Woodgate]

I don't think that the original suggestion was serious. But a chatbot 
trained only on standards from one SMB could probably do quite a good 
job, apart from assigning numbers to specifications.


==
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

I hear, and I forget. I see, and I remember. I do, and I understand. 
Xunzi (340 - 245 BC)



On 2023-06-10 14:44, Vincent Lee wrote:

Hi all,

ChatGPT is NOT specifically designed for product safety purposes.
It can only give very general results, then it is the job of product 
safety professionals to add the missing details.


In my work, I don't use ChatGPT, since it is not a tool designed for 
product safety which is a highly specialized engineering field.
In my view, ChatGPT is a toy to ask for very general questions. It 
cannot replace product safety professionals. Moreover, who is going to 
be responsible if a product fails and causes harms to users when one 
used the test plan generated by ChatGPT ?


Regards, Vincent


On Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 03:15:19 AM GMT+8, Douglas Powell 
 wrote:



Aside from all the news articles about problems with ChatGPT, I've 
tried a few things myself.  For example, "/write a complete test 
protocol for IEC 62368-1 for a desktop audio streaming amplifier 
weighing less than 7 kg./"


Of course, gave me a fairtly detailed but generally incomplete 
responses under these topic headings.


1. Objective:
2. Test Equipment:
3. Test Setup:
4. Test Procedures:
4.1.2. Lifting Test:
4.2.1. Ground Continuity Test:
4.2.2. Insulation Resistance Test:
4.2.3. Dielectric Voltage-Withstand Test:
4.3.1. Audio Performance Test:
4.3.2. Power Consumption Test:
4.4. Environmental Tests (if applicable):
5. Test Criteria:
6. ... /after this point it was left blank .../


In fun example is the 4.1.2 Lifting Test, it specified: "Apply a force 
of 200 N in the upward direction"


-Doug


Douglas E Powell
Laporte, Colorado USA
LinkedIn 

(UTC -06:00, US-MDT)


On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 11:49 AM Chuck August-McDowell 
 wrote:


Friday’s attempt at humor…

So how about using the text generator ChatGPT to write the
standard draft?

Chuck in Berkeley

*From:*Vincent Lee <08e6c8d35910-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
*Sent:* Thursday, June 8, 2023 7:05 PM
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO
standards for safety

[THIS EMAIL IS FROM AN EXTERNAL SENDER]

Huff,

No national nor international is available yet.

AI is more closely related to computer science than product safety.

And who knows AI may experience another winter, since there were
AI winter in 1980s - 1990s.

Regards, Vincent

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 10:37:35 PM GMT+8, David Huff
 wrote:

All,

I am working to guide a design that uses Artificial Intelligence
and machine vision thru a certification type process (CE Mark) and
I am looking for ISO or IEC standards or similar related
guidance.  My theory is that this is such new territory very
little guidance exists yet.  Are there any recommendations for
international guidance.

Thanks,

David

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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unsubscribe) 
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald 



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[PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for safety

[Vincent Lee]

Hi all,
ChatGPT is NOT specifically designed for product safety purposes.It can only 
give very general results, then it is the job of product safety professionals 
to add the missing details.
In my work, I don't use ChatGPT, since it is not a tool designed for product 
safety which is a highly specialized engineering field.In my view, ChatGPT is a 
toy to ask for very general questions. It cannot replace product safety 
professionals. Moreover, who is going to be responsible if a product fails and 
causes harms to users when one used the test plan generated by ChatGPT ?
Regards, Vincent 

On Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 03:15:19 AM GMT+8, Douglas Powell 
 wrote:  
 
 Aside from all the news articles about problems with ChatGPT, I've tried a few 
things myself.  For example, "write a complete test protocol for IEC 62368-1 
for a desktop audio streaming amplifier weighing less than 7 kg." 
Of course, gave me a fairtly detailed but generally incomplete responses under 
these topic headings.  

1. Objective:2. Test Equipment:3. Test Setup:4. Test Procedures:4.1.2. Lifting 
Test:4.2.1. Ground Continuity Test:4.2.2. Insulation Resistance Test:4.2.3. 
Dielectric Voltage-Withstand Test:4.3.1. Audio Performance Test:4.3.2. Power 
Consumption Test:4.4. Environmental Tests (if applicable):5. Test Criteria:6. 
... after this point it was left blank ...

In fun example is the 4.1.2 Lifting Test, it specified: "Apply a force of 200 N 
in the upward direction"
-Doug

Douglas E PowellLaporte, Colorado USALinkedIn

(UTC -06:00, US-MDT)


On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 11:49 AM Chuck August-McDowell  
wrote:


Friday’s attempt at humor…

So how about using the text generator ChatGPT to write the standard draft?

 

 

Chuck in Berkeley

 

From: Vincent Lee <08e6c8d35910-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2023 7:05 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for 
safety

 

[THIS EMAIL IS FROM AN EXTERNAL SENDER]

Huff,

 

No national nor international is available yet.

 

AI is more closely related to computer science than product safety.

And who knows AI may experience another winter, since there were AI winter in 
1980s - 1990s.

 

Regards, Vincent

 

 

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 10:37:35 PM GMT+8, David Huff  
wrote:

 

 

All,

I am working to guide a design that uses Artificial Intelligence and machine 
vision thru a certification type process (CE Mark) and I am looking for ISO or 
IEC standards or similar related guidance.  My theory is that this is such new 
territory very little guidance exists yet.  Are there any recommendations for 
international guidance.

 

Thanks,

David

 

-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web 
at:http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald 

To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following 
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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David Heald 

Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for safety

[Scott Aldous]

Hi David,

I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but you could check
out ISO/IEC
23894 .

On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 12:15 PM Douglas Powell  wrote:

> Aside from all the news articles about problems with ChatGPT, I've tried a
> few things myself.  For example, "*write a complete test protocol for IEC
> 62368-1 for a desktop audio streaming amplifier weighing less than 7 kg.*
> "
>
> Of course, gave me a fairtly detailed but generally incomplete responses
> under these topic headings.
>
> 1. Objective:
> 2. Test Equipment:
> 3. Test Setup:
> 4. Test Procedures:
> 4.1.2. Lifting Test:
> 4.2.1. Ground Continuity Test:
> 4.2.2. Insulation Resistance Test:
> 4.2.3. Dielectric Voltage-Withstand Test:
> 4.3.1. Audio Performance Test:
> 4.3.2. Power Consumption Test:
> 4.4. Environmental Tests (if applicable):
> 5. Test Criteria:
> 6. ... *after this point it was left blank ...*
>
>
> In fun example is the 4.1.2 Lifting Test, it specified: "Apply a force of
> 200 N in the upward direction"
>
> -Doug
>
>
> Douglas E Powell
> Laporte, Colorado USA
> LinkedIn 
>
> (UTC -06:00, US-MDT)
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 11:49 AM Chuck August-McDowell <
> chu...@meyersound.com> wrote:
>
>> Friday’s attempt at humor…
>>
>> So how about using the text generator ChatGPT to write the standard draft?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck in Berkeley
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Vincent Lee <08e6c8d35910-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 8, 2023 7:05 PM
>> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO
>> standards for safety
>>
>>
>>
>> [THIS EMAIL IS FROM AN EXTERNAL SENDER]
>>
>> Huff,
>>
>>
>>
>> No national nor international is available yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> AI is more closely related to computer science than product safety.
>>
>> And who knows AI may experience another winter, since there were AI
>> winter in 1980s - 1990s.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards, Vincent
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 10:37:35 PM GMT+8, David Huff <
>> dh...@vermeer.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> All,
>>
>> I am working to guide a design that uses Artificial Intelligence and
>> machine vision thru a certification type process (CE Mark) and I am looking
>> for ISO or IEC standards or similar related guidance.  My theory is that
>> this is such new territory very little guidance exists yet.  Are there any
>> recommendations for international guidance.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> 
>>
>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
>> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>>
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>> -
>> 
>>
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>> emc-p...@ieee.org>
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>> 
>>
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Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for safety

[Douglas Powell]

Aside from all the news articles about problems with ChatGPT, I've tried a
few things myself.  For example, "*write a complete test protocol for IEC
62368-1 for a desktop audio streaming amplifier weighing less than 7 kg.*"

Of course, gave me a fairtly detailed but generally incomplete responses
under these topic headings.

1. Objective:
2. Test Equipment:
3. Test Setup:
4. Test Procedures:
4.1.2. Lifting Test:
4.2.1. Ground Continuity Test:
4.2.2. Insulation Resistance Test:
4.2.3. Dielectric Voltage-Withstand Test:
4.3.1. Audio Performance Test:
4.3.2. Power Consumption Test:
4.4. Environmental Tests (if applicable):
5. Test Criteria:
6. ... *after this point it was left blank ...*


In fun example is the 4.1.2 Lifting Test, it specified: "Apply a force of
200 N in the upward direction"

-Doug


Douglas E Powell
Laporte, Colorado USA
LinkedIn 

(UTC -06:00, US-MDT)


On Fri, Jun 9, 2023 at 11:49 AM Chuck August-McDowell 
wrote:

> Friday’s attempt at humor…
>
> So how about using the text generator ChatGPT to write the standard draft?
>
>
>
>
>
> Chuck in Berkeley
>
>
>
> *From:* Vincent Lee <08e6c8d35910-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 8, 2023 7:05 PM
> *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO
> standards for safety
>
>
>
> [THIS EMAIL IS FROM AN EXTERNAL SENDER]
>
> Huff,
>
>
>
> No national nor international is available yet.
>
>
>
> AI is more closely related to computer science than product safety.
>
> And who knows AI may experience another winter, since there were AI winter
> in 1980s - 1990s.
>
>
>
> Regards, Vincent
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 10:37:35 PM GMT+8, David Huff <
> dh...@vermeer.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> All,
>
> I am working to guide a design that uses Artificial Intelligence and
> machine vision thru a certification type process (CE Mark) and I am looking
> for ISO or IEC standards or similar related guidance.  My theory is that
> this is such new territory very little guidance exists yet.  Are there any
> recommendations for international guidance.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
>
>
> -
> 
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
> emc-p...@ieee.org>
>
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>
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> unsubscribe) 
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> Mike Cantwell 
>
> For policy questions, send mail to:
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> David Heald 
> --
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>
> -
> 
>
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> -
> 
>
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-

Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for safety

[Chuck August-McDowell]

Friday’s attempt at humor…
So how about using the text generator ChatGPT to write the standard draft?


Chuck in Berkeley

From: Vincent Lee <08e6c8d35910-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 8, 2023 7:05 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for 
safety


[THIS EMAIL IS FROM AN EXTERNAL SENDER]
Huff,

No national nor international is available yet.

AI is more closely related to computer science than product safety.
And who knows AI may experience another winter, since there were AI winter in 
1980s - 1990s.

Regards, Vincent


On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 10:37:35 PM GMT+8, David Huff 
mailto:dh...@vermeer.com>> wrote:



All,

I am working to guide a design that uses Artificial Intelligence and machine 
vision thru a certification type process (CE Mark) and I am looking for ISO or 
IEC standards or similar related guidance.  My theory is that this is such new 
territory very little guidance exists yet.  Are there any recommendations for 
international guidance.



Thanks,

David


-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

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Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for safety

[Vincent Lee]

Huff,
No national nor international is available yet.
AI is more closely related to computer science than product safety.And who 
knows AI may experience another winter, since there were AI winter in 1980s - 
1990s.
Regards, Vincent 

On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 10:37:35 PM GMT+8, David Huff 
 wrote:  
 
  
All,
 
I am working to guide a design that uses Artificial Intelligence and machine 
vision thru a certification type process (CE Mark) and I am looking for ISO or 
IEC standards or similar related guidance.  My theory is that this is such new 
territory very little guidance exists yet.  Are there any recommendations for 
international guidance.
 
  
 
Thanks,
 
David
 
  
 -


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Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for safety

[Doug Nix]

Hi David,

At the moment, only one machinery related standard even opens the door for AI 
in functional safety systems: ISO 13849-1:2023. That standard only says that AI 
“can be used,” but immediately goes on to say that no information on how to do 
that or how to validate the results are given in the standard. ISO JTC 1/SC 42 
and IEC/TC 65/SC 65A have been working on a document, ISO/IEC/DTR 5469, 
Artificial intelligence — Functional safety and AI systems 
, for some time now, and there is no 
available target date for publication.

The automotive sector has made more progress in this direction. There was an 
IEEE SA webinar entitled "RISK-BASED METHODOLOGY FOR DERIVING SCENARIOS FOR 
TESTING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE SYSTEMS 
”
 that discussed a risk assessment methodology that Barnaby Simkin from NVIDIA 
developed. It was good, but I think it’s very premature to be entrusting safety 
to AI systems.

Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org
+1 (519) 729-5704



> On Jun 7, 2023, at 10:37, David Huff  wrote:
> 
> All,
> I am working to guide a design that uses Artificial Intelligence and machine 
> vision thru a certification type process (CE Mark) and I am looking for ISO 
> or IEC standards or similar related guidance.  My theory is that this is such 
> new territory very little guidance exists yet.  Are there any recommendations 
> for international guidance.
>  
> Thanks,
> David
>  
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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> 
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> 
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Re: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for safety

[Richard Nute]

 

Hi David:

 

If you are looking for product safety, I would say that product safety
should be independent of AI, or, indeed, of any software.  

 

However, some new power distribution schemes involve "handshaking" (which is
software controlled) before power can be delivered.  So, before power is
delivered, the hardware and the controlling software must be safe.  And,
when power is delivered, the hardware (at both ends) must be safe.  

 

Good luck, and best regards,

Rich

 

 

From: David Huff  
Sent: Wednesday, June 7, 2023 7:37 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for
safety

 

All,

I am working to guide a design that uses Artificial Intelligence and machine
vision thru a certification type process (CE Mark) and I am looking for ISO
or IEC standards or similar related guidance.  My theory is that this is
such new territory very little guidance exists yet.  Are there any
recommendations for international guidance.

 

Thanks,

David

 


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[PSES] Looking for AI or machine vision related ISO standards for safety

[David Huff]

All,
I am working to guide a design that uses Artificial Intelligence and machine 
vision thru a certification type process (CE Mark) and I am looking for ISO or 
IEC standards or similar related guidance.  My theory is that this is such new 
territory very little guidance exists yet.  Are there any recommendations for 
international guidance.

Thanks,
David


-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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