Antenna Pre-amps
Can someone provide me with the name(s) of manufacturers of pre-amps that I can stick at the output of our antennas in the rage of 1 GHz to 40 GHz (don't necessarily need a single amp to cover the entire range). Anyone had good or otherwise experiences with these units? Thanks, Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Antenna Pre-amps
Thanks for the many replies that I received. Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 = - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: Antenna Pre-amps
From: don_borow...@selinc.com [mailto:don_borow...@selinc.com] Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:53 AM To: rehel...@mmm.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Antenna Pre-amps Bob- Let me know what you find out. I am needing similar preamps. Right now I need to go to 13 GHz, but may need to go to 26 GHz soon. I don't think I will be going beyond 26 GHz for quite some time. Having said that, it seems to me that the best solution would be to have a remote preamp/mixer on the antenna to use with the receiver/spectrum analyzer, so that high frequency signals would not have to be sent down the coax. It is really hard to avoid non-TEM modes in low loss (i.e., large diameter) coax at such short wavelengths. Don Borowski Schweitzer Engineering Labs Pullman, WA Don: What you do for expansion often depends on the equipment you already have, since it's usually attractive to add on rather than go completely new. I have an HP-8572A Receiver system, that goes directly to 20 GHz. However, I usually switch over to an old portable HP-8562A analyzer, because this model interfaces easily with the HP-11970x series of down-converters. These converters are waveguide input (so they hang directly on the horn antenna's waveguide output port; essentially zero RF loss. The converters are fed with a custom LO from the analyzer, and they output an IF to the analyzer. The analyzer scales everything for frequency and conversion losses, even applying the proper DC bias to the converter. I typically use 3-meter low-loss coax cables between the analyzer and the converter. (I could improve my noise figures if I put a low-noise pre-amp between the antenna and the converter.) I typically use full-band horn antennas (12-18 GHz, 18-26 GHz, 26-40 GHz). Some people use the HP EMC analyzer system, which had rather large down-converter / pre-amp heads. You might be able to find an older receiver, like the Eaton NM-67 (with a QP adapter). Of course, if you don't have a legacy to build on, then you and your banker will get to talk with the good folks at AR or RS. Ed Price mailto:ed.pr...@cubic.com ed.pr...@cubic.com NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Technician Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Applications San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (FAX) Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Antenna Pre-amps
Bob- Let me know what you find out. I am needing similar preamps. Right now I need to go to 13 GHz, but may need to go to 26 GHz soon. I don't think I will be going beyond 26 GHz for quite some time. Having said that, it seems to me that the best solution would be to have a remote preamp/mixer on the antenna to use with the receiver/spectrum analyzer, so that high frequency signals would not have to be sent down the coax. It is really hard to avoid non-TEM modes in low loss (i.e., large diameter) coax at such short wavelengths. Don Borowski Schweitzer Engineering Labs Pullman, WA rehel...@mmm.com Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org To emc-p...@ieee.org cc 11/27/2006 08:06 AMSubject Antenna Pre-amps Can someone provide me with the name(s) of manufacturers of pre-amps that I can stick at the output of our antennas in the rage of 1 GHz to 40 GHz (don't necessarily need a single amp to cover the entire range). Anyone had good or otherwise experiences with these units? Thanks, Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 This e-mail may contain SEL confidential or legally privileged information. The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of SEL. Any unauthorized disclosure, distribution or other use is prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender, permanently delete it, and destroy any printed copies. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: Antenna Pre-amps
We use Miteq here with very good experience and results. Amplifier Research (AR) are high quality also. Thank you. Rob Kado EMC Product Development Engineer DaimlerChrysler EMC Laboratory CIMS 481-47-20 800 Chrysler Drive Auburn Hills, MI 48326 Desk: (248) 576-6915 Mobile: (248) 467-0639 Fax: (248) 576-7045 rehel...@mmm.com Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org 11/27/2006 11:06 AM To emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject Antenna Pre-amps Can someone provide me with the name(s) of manufacturers of pre-amps that I can stick at the output of our antennas in the rage of 1 GHz to 40 GHz (don't necessarily need a single amp to cover the entire range). Anyone had good or otherwise experiences with these units? Thanks, Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: Antenna Pre-amps
Miteq and Avantech come to mind for octave band, low noise figure pre-amps powered typically by 15 Vdc (they also have some multi-octave band amps). Both HP and Rohde Schwarz make mains powered multi-band pre-amps with good sensitivity, but not as good as the special purpose octave band devices. Also Mini-Circuits makes some inexpensive pre-amps, but I don't think they will go as high in frequency as you want. No reason you couldn't save some money at the low end with Mini-Circuits though, to help pay the big $$$ for the name brand manufacturers' products at the high end. If you are working outdoors you have to consider overload from non-EUT source signals. It may then be better to use octave band pre-amps with octave band horns, if possible directed away from the source of the undesired signal. From: rehel...@mmm.com Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 10:06:33 -0600 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Antenna Pre-amps Can someone provide me with the name(s) of manufacturers of pre-amps that I can stick at the output of our antennas in the rage of 1 GHz to 40 GHz (don't necessarily need a single amp to cover the entire range). Anyone had good or otherwise experiences with these units? Thanks, Bob Heller 3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01 St. Paul, MN 55107-1208 Tel: 651- 778-6336 Fax: 651-778-6252 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
RE: Pre-amps
David -- you are correct -- the mismatch in the system and antenna factors still remain, regardless of the cable length If the antenna (or whatever load) is not 50 ohms at some frequency, and the source feeding the antenna (or whatever) is 50 ohms at that frequency, a mis-match will exist. Adding 50 ohm cable between the source and load won't change the mis-match, but depending on the cable length, may make the mis-match look better or worse from the source end. (Unless, of course, the cable is infinitely long in which case it will look very much better, but normally, the cable length acts as an impedance transformer.) For specific frequencies, one could use the cable as an impedance matching section between the source and load, but this is clearly unusable for broad-band applications. Mike Hopkins -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 1:05 PM To: Pommerenke, David; 'ravinder ajmani'; marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps Note I am replying to all. What is the measurement inaccuracy associated with a mismatch if the transmission line is vanishingly short (relative to a wavelength)? -- From: Pommerenke, David davi...@ece.umr.edu To: 'Ken Javor' ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, 'Ravinder Ajmani' ajm...@us.ibm.com, marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Pre-amps Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001, 8:10 AM Dear Ken, I am thinking you are missing something (hope that I am correct). If you simply shorten the cable to zero, the problem of the missmatch, and the effect of an error that is not corrected for by the antenna factor still remains. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 5:51 PM To: Pommerenke, David; 'Ravinder Ajmani'; marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps If input VSWR for preamp and output VSWR for antenna are both bad, then it seems a simple solution is to connect preamp input to antenna output and let 50 Ohm output of preamp drive cable, solving two problems at once. Am I missing something? -- From: Pommerenke, David davi...@ece.umr.edu To: 'Ravinder Ajmani' ajm...@us.ibm.com, marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Pre-amps Date: Thu, Nov 15, 2001, 7:49 AM On the amps: For emissions there are the following electrical criteria: - Noise figure expect about 4 dB for a broadband amp 30 MHz - 2 GHz. The noise figure is often larger at the lower frequencies if the amplifier goes up to many GHz. - Input SWR. This is important. Most broadband amps (especially if they go up to many GHz) have a bad input match at low frequencies. As the log-per antennas have a bad mismatch too, you will have multiple reflections on the cable between the antenna and the pre-amp. This reflections will influence your measurement and cannot be corrected for by the antenna factor. They may be as large as a few dB below 100 MHz. For that reason, you may be forced to add a 3 dB attenuatore at the antenna. This increases your noise figure by 3 dB. - Gain. Of course, you need only as much gain as is needed to overcome the cable loss (cable to the spectrum analyzer) and the noise figure of the spectrum analyzer. More gain will not help you. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: Ravinder Ajmani [mailto:ajm...@us.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:27 PM To: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps Joe, HP (Agilent) make good Pre-amps for different frequency ranges. If you are looking for an economical solution then you may try Com Power Corp. at (949) 587-9800. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain MartinJP@appliedbiosyst ems.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordom Subject: Pre-amps o.ieee.org 11/14/2001 10:14 AM Please respond to MartinJP I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why? Your assistance is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our
Re: Pre-amps
I don't understand that. You only get standing waves when a mismatched transmission line is a significant fraction of a wavelength. If the transfer of power from antenna to amplifier is in question, then you could do what another list member suggested: calibrate antenna and amplifier together as a unit. Problem solved. -- From: Pommerenke, David davi...@ece.umr.edu To: 'Ken Javor' ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, 'ravinder ajmani' ajm...@us.ibm.com, marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Pre-amps Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001, 12:36 PM Ken, The added uncertainty is exactly as large as if you have a piece of cable (assume too short to have relevant losses) inbetween. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 12:05 PM To: Pommerenke, David; 'ravinder ajmani'; marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps Note I am replying to all. What is the measurement inaccuracy associated with a mismatch if the transmission line is vanishingly short (relative to a wavelength)? -- From: Pommerenke, David davi...@ece.umr.edu To: 'Ken Javor' ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, 'Ravinder Ajmani' ajm...@us.ibm.com, marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Pre-amps Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001, 8:10 AM Dear Ken, I am thinking you are missing something (hope that I am correct). If you simply shorten the cable to zero, the problem of the missmatch, and the effect of an error that is not corrected for by the antenna factor still remains. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 5:51 PM To: Pommerenke, David; 'Ravinder Ajmani'; marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps If input VSWR for preamp and output VSWR for antenna are both bad, then it seems a simple solution is to connect preamp input to antenna output and let 50 Ohm output of preamp drive cable, solving two problems at once. Am I missing something? -- From: Pommerenke, David davi...@ece.umr.edu To: 'Ravinder Ajmani' ajm...@us.ibm.com, marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Pre-amps Date: Thu, Nov 15, 2001, 7:49 AM On the amps: For emissions there are the following electrical criteria: - Noise figure expect about 4 dB for a broadband amp 30 MHz - 2 GHz. The noise figure is often larger at the lower frequencies if the amplifier goes up to many GHz. - Input SWR. This is important. Most broadband amps (especially if they go up to many GHz) have a bad input match at low frequencies. As the log-per antennas have a bad mismatch too, you will have multiple reflections on the cable between the antenna and the pre-amp. This reflections will influence your measurement and cannot be corrected for by the antenna factor. They may be as large as a few dB below 100 MHz. For that reason, you may be forced to add a 3 dB attenuatore at the antenna. This increases your noise figure by 3 dB. - Gain. Of course, you need only as much gain as is needed to overcome the cable loss (cable to the spectrum analyzer) and the noise figure of the spectrum analyzer. More gain will not help you. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: Ravinder Ajmani [mailto:ajm...@us.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:27 PM To: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps Joe, HP (Agilent) make good Pre-amps for different frequency ranges. If you are looking for an economical solution then you may try Com Power Corp. at (949) 587-9800. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain MartinJP@appliedbiosyst ems.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordom Subject: Pre-amps o.ieee.org 11/14/2001 10:14 AM Please respond to MartinJP I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why? Your assistance is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel
RE: Pre-amps
Ken, The added uncertainty is exactly as large as if you have a piece of cable (assume too short to have relevant losses) inbetween. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 12:05 PM To: Pommerenke, David; 'ravinder ajmani'; marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps Note I am replying to all. What is the measurement inaccuracy associated with a mismatch if the transmission line is vanishingly short (relative to a wavelength)? -- From: Pommerenke, David davi...@ece.umr.edu To: 'Ken Javor' ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, 'Ravinder Ajmani' ajm...@us.ibm.com, marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Pre-amps Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001, 8:10 AM Dear Ken, I am thinking you are missing something (hope that I am correct). If you simply shorten the cable to zero, the problem of the missmatch, and the effect of an error that is not corrected for by the antenna factor still remains. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 5:51 PM To: Pommerenke, David; 'Ravinder Ajmani'; marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps If input VSWR for preamp and output VSWR for antenna are both bad, then it seems a simple solution is to connect preamp input to antenna output and let 50 Ohm output of preamp drive cable, solving two problems at once. Am I missing something? -- From: Pommerenke, David davi...@ece.umr.edu To: 'Ravinder Ajmani' ajm...@us.ibm.com, marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Pre-amps Date: Thu, Nov 15, 2001, 7:49 AM On the amps: For emissions there are the following electrical criteria: - Noise figure expect about 4 dB for a broadband amp 30 MHz - 2 GHz. The noise figure is often larger at the lower frequencies if the amplifier goes up to many GHz. - Input SWR. This is important. Most broadband amps (especially if they go up to many GHz) have a bad input match at low frequencies. As the log-per antennas have a bad mismatch too, you will have multiple reflections on the cable between the antenna and the pre-amp. This reflections will influence your measurement and cannot be corrected for by the antenna factor. They may be as large as a few dB below 100 MHz. For that reason, you may be forced to add a 3 dB attenuatore at the antenna. This increases your noise figure by 3 dB. - Gain. Of course, you need only as much gain as is needed to overcome the cable loss (cable to the spectrum analyzer) and the noise figure of the spectrum analyzer. More gain will not help you. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: Ravinder Ajmani [mailto:ajm...@us.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:27 PM To: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps Joe, HP (Agilent) make good Pre-amps for different frequency ranges. If you are looking for an economical solution then you may try Com Power Corp. at (949) 587-9800. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain MartinJP@appliedbiosyst ems.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordom Subject: Pre-amps o.ieee.org 11/14/2001 10:14 AM Please respond to MartinJP I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why? Your assistance is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server
Re: Pre-amps
Note I am replying to all. What is the measurement inaccuracy associated with a mismatch if the transmission line is vanishingly short (relative to a wavelength)? -- From: Pommerenke, David davi...@ece.umr.edu To: 'Ken Javor' ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, 'Ravinder Ajmani' ajm...@us.ibm.com, marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Pre-amps Date: Fri, Nov 16, 2001, 8:10 AM Dear Ken, I am thinking you are missing something (hope that I am correct). If you simply shorten the cable to zero, the problem of the missmatch, and the effect of an error that is not corrected for by the antenna factor still remains. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 5:51 PM To: Pommerenke, David; 'Ravinder Ajmani'; marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps If input VSWR for preamp and output VSWR for antenna are both bad, then it seems a simple solution is to connect preamp input to antenna output and let 50 Ohm output of preamp drive cable, solving two problems at once. Am I missing something? -- From: Pommerenke, David davi...@ece.umr.edu To: 'Ravinder Ajmani' ajm...@us.ibm.com, marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Pre-amps Date: Thu, Nov 15, 2001, 7:49 AM On the amps: For emissions there are the following electrical criteria: - Noise figure expect about 4 dB for a broadband amp 30 MHz - 2 GHz. The noise figure is often larger at the lower frequencies if the amplifier goes up to many GHz. - Input SWR. This is important. Most broadband amps (especially if they go up to many GHz) have a bad input match at low frequencies. As the log-per antennas have a bad mismatch too, you will have multiple reflections on the cable between the antenna and the pre-amp. This reflections will influence your measurement and cannot be corrected for by the antenna factor. They may be as large as a few dB below 100 MHz. For that reason, you may be forced to add a 3 dB attenuatore at the antenna. This increases your noise figure by 3 dB. - Gain. Of course, you need only as much gain as is needed to overcome the cable loss (cable to the spectrum analyzer) and the noise figure of the spectrum analyzer. More gain will not help you. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: Ravinder Ajmani [mailto:ajm...@us.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:27 PM To: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps Joe, HP (Agilent) make good Pre-amps for different frequency ranges. If you are looking for an economical solution then you may try Com Power Corp. at (949) 587-9800. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain MartinJP@appliedbiosyst ems.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordom Subject: Pre-amps o.ieee.org 11/14/2001 10:14 AM Please respond to MartinJP I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why? Your assistance is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson
RE: Pre-amps
Greetings, I believe David is correct here, the effect of the mismatch between antenna and preamp is still there and so all the available energy from the antenna will not be transferred to the preamp. However, the effects of the length of cable will be gone as with zero length there can be no standing wave. So if the preamp has a pretty good 50 input impedance you will gain nothing by adding a 3dB pad. This could be a trade off if the input impedance is terrible - which has less loss (= lower noise) the 3dB pad and its mismatch losses to both antenna and preamp, or the single antenna to preamp mismatch loss? At least with zero cable it would be a stable value. If different cable lengths are used, the transferred impedance will be also be different meaning that the mismatch losses could well change too. Getting the preamp as close as possible to the antenna is always best I think. With a zero, or very short fixed length cable the measurement set up will be as repeatable as possible while reducing the noise floor. Does this help or confuse? Colin.. -Original Message- From: Pommerenke, David [mailto:davi...@ece.umr.edu] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 9:10 AM To: 'Ken Javor'; 'Ravinder Ajmani'; marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:RE: Pre-amps Dear Ken, I am thinking you are missing something (hope that I am correct). If you simply shorten the cable to zero, the problem of the missmatch, and the effect of an error that is not corrected for by the antenna factor still remains. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 5:51 PM To: Pommerenke, David; 'Ravinder Ajmani'; marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps If input VSWR for preamp and output VSWR for antenna are both bad, then it seems a simple solution is to connect preamp input to antenna output and let 50 Ohm output of preamp drive cable, solving two problems at once. Am I missing something? -- From: Pommerenke, David davi...@ece.umr.edu To: 'Ravinder Ajmani' ajm...@us.ibm.com, marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Pre-amps Date: Thu, Nov 15, 2001, 7:49 AM On the amps: For emissions there are the following electrical criteria: - Noise figure expect about 4 dB for a broadband amp 30 MHz - 2 GHz. The noise figure is often larger at the lower frequencies if the amplifier goes up to many GHz. - Input SWR. This is important. Most broadband amps (especially if they go up to many GHz) have a bad input match at low frequencies. As the log-per antennas have a bad mismatch too, you will have multiple reflections on the cable between the antenna and the pre-amp. This reflections will influence your measurement and cannot be corrected for by the antenna factor. They may be as large as a few dB below 100 MHz. For that reason, you may be forced to add a 3 dB attenuatore at the antenna. This increases your noise figure by 3 dB. - Gain. Of course, you need only as much gain as is needed to overcome the cable loss (cable to the spectrum analyzer) and the noise figure of the spectrum analyzer. More gain will not help you. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: Ravinder Ajmani [mailto:ajm...@us.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:27 PM To: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps Joe, HP (Agilent) make good Pre-amps for different frequency ranges. If you are looking for an economical solution then you may try Com Power Corp. at (949) 587-9800. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain MartinJP@appliedbiosyst ems.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordom Subject: Pre-amps o.ieee.org 11/14/2001 10:14 AM Please respond to MartinJP I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why? Your assistance is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org
RE: Pre-amps
I thought he was referring to this part of your statement... you will have multiple reflections on the cable between the antenna and the pre-amp. This reflections will influence your measurement and cannot be corrected for by the antenna factor. thus removing the cable, removes the reflections... not necessarily the mis-matches, just the reflections on the cable. Could the pre-amp-antenna combination be considered a 'unit' for antenna factors ??? - Bill At 09:10 AM 11/16/2001 , Pommerenke, David wrote: Dear Ken, I am thinking you are missing something (hope that I am correct). If you simply shorten the cable to zero, the problem of the missmatch, and the effect of an error that is not corrected for by the antenna factor still remains. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 5:51 PM To: Pommerenke, David; 'Ravinder Ajmani'; marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps If input VSWR for preamp and output VSWR for antenna are both bad, then it seems a simple solution is to connect preamp input to antenna output and let 50 Ohm output of preamp drive cable, solving two problems at once. Am I missing something? -- From: Pommerenke, David davi...@ece.umr.edu To: 'Ravinder Ajmani' ajm...@us.ibm.com, marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Pre-amps Date: Thu, Nov 15, 2001, 7:49 AM On the amps: For emissions there are the following electrical criteria: - Noise figure expect about 4 dB for a broadband amp 30 MHz - 2 GHz. The noise figure is often larger at the lower frequencies if the amplifier goes up to many GHz. - Input SWR. This is important. Most broadband amps (especially if they go up to many GHz) have a bad input match at low frequencies. As the log-per antennas have a bad mismatch too, you will have multiple reflections on the cable between the antenna and the pre-amp. This reflections will influence your measurement and cannot be corrected for by the antenna factor. They may be as large as a few dB below 100 MHz. For that reason, you may be forced to add a 3 dB attenuatore at the antenna. This increases your noise figure by 3 dB. - Gain. Of course, you need only as much gain as is needed to overcome the cable loss (cable to the spectrum analyzer) and the noise figure of the spectrum analyzer. More gain will not help you. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: Ravinder Ajmani [mailto:ajm...@us.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:27 PM To: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps Joe, HP (Agilent) make good Pre-amps for different frequency ranges. If you are looking for an economical solution then you may try Com Power Corp. at (949) 587-9800. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain MartinJP@appliedbiosyst ems.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordom Subject: Pre-amps o.ieee.org 11/14/2001 10:14 AM Please respond to MartinJP I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why? Your assistance is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Heald davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Heald davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new
Re:RE: Pre-amps
Keep in mind that the location of the pre-amp can make a big difference too. If you are trying to make up for cable loss, the best place to put the pre-amp is near the antenna, before the loss occurs. Some labs mount one of those small amp-modules right on the antenna but you have to run DC power to it. We mount our amp where the antenna coax meets the floor. We gain several db in the noise floor over mounting it near the receiver. Brian Reply Separator Subject:RE: Pre-amps Author: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 11/14/01 8:06 PM John and all, I am looking for a pre-amp to connect to our receiver/antenna for performing radiated emissions testing from 30-1000MHz. It has been recommended that the gain be approximately 20-22dB with low noise. I am guessing that most people on this forum that have EMC labs use a similar type pre-amp for their radiated emissions set up. Please excuse me for not providing this information in my initial question. As always, your responses are greatly appreciated. Joe Martin John Shinn john.shinn@saTo: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org nmina.comcc: Subject: RE: Pre-amps 11/14/01 01:03 PM Please respondto john.shinn What is the frequency range needed. Is this Audio (10 Hz to 40 kHz)? RF (0.1 MHz to 1000 MHz)? Above 1 GHz? What transducer is feeding the input? Microphone, antenna, etc.? Output Z requirements? Do you need a specific gain, such as between 20 to 22 dB? or can you live with something greater such as 25 dB? Does it need to be adjustable? That information would be helpful. Regards, John Shinn, P.E. Manager, Lab Operations Sanmina -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 10:15 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Pre-amps I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why? Your assistance is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Pre-amps
On the amps: For emissions there are the following electrical criteria: - Noise figure expect about 4 dB for a broadband amp 30 MHz - 2 GHz. The noise figure is often larger at the lower frequencies if the amplifier goes up to many GHz. - Input SWR. This is important. Most broadband amps (especially if they go up to many GHz) have a bad input match at low frequencies. As the log-per antennas have a bad mismatch too, you will have multiple reflections on the cable between the antenna and the pre-amp. This reflections will influence your measurement and cannot be corrected for by the antenna factor. They may be as large as a few dB below 100 MHz. For that reason, you may be forced to add a 3 dB attenuatore at the antenna. This increases your noise figure by 3 dB. - Gain. Of course, you need only as much gain as is needed to overcome the cable loss (cable to the spectrum analyzer) and the noise figure of the spectrum analyzer. More gain will not help you. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: Ravinder Ajmani [mailto:ajm...@us.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 1:27 PM To: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Pre-amps Joe, HP (Agilent) make good Pre-amps for different frequency ranges. If you are looking for an economical solution then you may try Com Power Corp. at (949) 587-9800. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain MartinJP@appliedbiosyst ems.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordom Subject: Pre-amps o.ieee.org 11/14/2001 10:14 AM Please respond to MartinJP I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why? Your assistance is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Pre-amps
Most use the HP (Agelent) 8447D pre-amp, or one of its family members. John -Original Message- From: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com [mailto:marti...@appliedbiosystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 4:25 PM To: john.sh...@sanmina.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Pre-amps John and all, I am looking for a pre-amp to connect to our receiver/antenna for performing radiated emissions testing from 30-1000MHz. It has been recommended that the gain be approximately 20-22dB with low noise. I am guessing that most people on this forum that have EMC labs use a similar type pre-amp for their radiated emissions set up. Please excuse me for not providing this information in my initial question. As always, your responses are greatly appreciated. Joe Martin John Shinn john.shinn@saTo: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org nmina.comcc: Subject: RE: Pre-amps 11/14/01 01:03 PM Please respond to john.shinn What is the frequency range needed. Is this Audio (10 Hz to 40 kHz)? RF (0.1 MHz to 1000 MHz)? Above 1 GHz? What transducer is feeding the input? Microphone, antenna, etc.? Output Z requirements? Do you need a specific gain, such as between 20 to 22 dB? or can you live with something greater such as 25 dB? Does it need to be adjustable? That information would be helpful. Regards, John Shinn, P.E. Manager, Lab Operations Sanmina -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 10:15 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Pre-amps I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why? Your assistance is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Pre-amps
-Original Message- From: marti...@appliedbiosystems.com [mailto:marti...@appliedbiosystems.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 10:15 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Pre-amps I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why? Your assistance is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems My choice for a pre-amp usually starts with the assumption of minimum noise figure and a large, flat bandwidth. For instance, a 1 GHz to 2 GHz octave bandwidth pre-amp, with an NF of 0.5 dB and a gain of about 30 dB. Or an 8 GHz to 12 GHz, 1 dB NF, 26 dB gain model. With that assumed, I usually look to Miteq for a basic amplifier module, likely with SMA connectors and an external 15 VDC power supply. Depending on frequency and how low a NF you want to buy, prices range from a few hundred to a couple of thousand dollars. If you can tolerate the experience, watch eBay, as they have a continuous flow of RF hardware being offered for auction. Ed Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Pre-amps
I read in !emc-pstc that marti...@appliedbiosystems.com wrote (in of931a5cdb.ac7941d8-on88256b04.0063e...@pe-c.com) about 'Pre-amps', on Wed, 14 Nov 2001: I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. You wouldn't care to suggest a frequency range (and perhaps an output power or voltage), would you? -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Eat mink and be dreary! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Pre-amps
Joe, HP (Agilent) make good Pre-amps for different frequency ranges. If you are looking for an economical solution then you may try Com Power Corp. at (949) 587-9800. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain MartinJP@appliedbiosyst ems.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordom Subject: Pre-amps o.ieee.org 11/14/2001 10:14 AM Please respond to MartinJP I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why? Your assistance is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Pre-amps
I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why? Your assistance is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: Pre-amps for EMC Use
John Do you know the full name of Com-Power or its www address? Thank You KC Chan jestuckey jestuc...@micron.com 06/29/01 12:43am Com-Power 2122Pre-amp 500 MHz to 22 GHz $6,500.00 PA-122 Very flat response curve. I have been very happy with mine. Regards, JOHN E. STUCKEY EMC Engineer Micron Technology, Inc. Integrated Technology Group Micron Architectures Lab 8455 West Emerald Boise, ID 83704 Ph. 208.363.5313 Fx. 208.363.5596 jestuc...@micron.com -Original Message- From: andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com [mailto:andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 9:59 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Pre-amps for EMC Use Hi everyone Can anyone help, I am trying to identify a per-amplifier low noise gain 29dB to 36dB to cover frequency range 1GHz to 18GHz for Emission testing. I know HP do a couple but usual problem expensive and I only have a limited budget. Has anyone used a DBS Microwave amplifier type DBS-0119N410? Are they suitable for emission testing? Any help would be gratefully received. Regards Andy Price BAE SYSTEMS Avionics email andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Pre-amps for EMC Use
You need to use a bandwidth of 1MHz above 1GHz remember. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Pre-amps for EMC Use
List, I would suggest a noise budget calculation for a EMC bandwidth of 120 kHz before you proceed. You may need to consider mounting the pre-amp on the test (receiving) antenna and in such case consider the possibility of ESD damage during set up. cheers :-) Tim Foo, E-mail: f...@np.edu.sg ECE, School of Engineering, http://www.np.edu.sg/ece/ Tel: + 65 460 6143 Ngee Ann Polytechnic, Fax: + 65 467 1730 535 Clementi Road, Singapore 599489 David Heald davehe...@mediaone.netTo: andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org, (bcc: Wan Juang Sent by: Foo/ece/staff/npnet) owner-emc-pstc@majordomSubject: Re: Pre-amps for EMC Use o.ieee.org 06/29/01 05:50 AM Please respond to David Heald I have used Miteq or Mini-Circuits preamps with a custom box (Al project box) and a 15Vdc regulator. These had around 20dB of gain which was sufficient at 3 or 1 meter for most frequencies between 1 - 18 GHz. The exact model that we used has been discontinued though and I am unsure if a replacement has been designed. I believe the cost for these preamps was between $1k - $3k, so they were pretty cheap if you are handy enough to build your own box to protect/power it. Regards, Dave Heald andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com wrote: Hi everyone Can anyone help, I am trying to identify a per-amplifier low noise gain 29dB to 36dB to cover frequency range 1GHz to 18GHz for Emission testing. I know HP do a couple but usual problem expensive and I only have a limited budget. Has anyone used a DBS Microwave amplifier type DBS-0119N410? Are they suitable for emission testing? Any help would be gratefully received. Regards Andy Price BAE SYSTEMS Avionics email andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com snip --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Pre-amps for EMC Use
I have used Miteq or Mini-Circuits preamps with a custom box (Al project box) and a 15Vdc regulator. These had around 20dB of gain which was sufficient at 3 or 1 meter for most frequencies between 1 - 18 GHz. The exact model that we used has been discontinued though and I am unsure if a replacement has been designed. I believe the cost for these preamps was between $1k - $3k, so they were pretty cheap if you are handy enough to build your own box to protect/power it. Regards, Dave Heald andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com wrote: Hi everyone Can anyone help, I am trying to identify a per-amplifier low noise gain 29dB to 36dB to cover frequency range 1GHz to 18GHz for Emission testing. I know HP do a couple but usual problem expensive and I only have a limited budget. Has anyone used a DBS Microwave amplifier type DBS-0119N410? Are they suitable for emission testing? Any help would be gratefully received. Regards Andy Price BAE SYSTEMS Avionics email andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Pre-amps for EMC Use
-Original Message- From: andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com [mailto:andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 8:59 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Pre-amps for EMC Use Hi everyone Can anyone help, I am trying to identify a per-amplifier low noise gain 29dB to 36dB to cover frequency range 1GHz to 18GHz for Emission testing. I know HP do a couple but usual problem expensive and I only have a limited budget. Has anyone used a DBS Microwave amplifier type DBS-0119N410? Are they suitable for emission testing? Any help would be gratefully received. Regards Andy Price BAE SYSTEMS Avionics email andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com Andy: I have used Miteq octave band pre-amps, typically 1-2 GHz, 2-4 GHz, 4-8 GHz 8-18 GHz. Trouble is, when you add up the cost of a whole set, you are right in the neighborhood of an HP-8449B! At least with the Miteq's, you can buy them one at a time, spreading the expenditure over time. Ed --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Pre-amps for EMC Use
Com-Power 2122Pre-amp 500 MHz to 22 GHz $6,500.00 PA-122 Very flat response curve. I have been very happy with mine. Regards, JOHN E. STUCKEY EMC Engineer Micron Technology, Inc. Integrated Technology Group Micron Architectures Lab 8455 West Emerald Boise, ID 83704 Ph. 208.363.5313 Fx. 208.363.5596 jestuc...@micron.com -Original Message- From: andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com [mailto:andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com] Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 9:59 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Pre-amps for EMC Use Hi everyone Can anyone help, I am trying to identify a per-amplifier low noise gain 29dB to 36dB to cover frequency range 1GHz to 18GHz for Emission testing. I know HP do a couple but usual problem expensive and I only have a limited budget. Has anyone used a DBS Microwave amplifier type DBS-0119N410? Are they suitable for emission testing? Any help would be gratefully received. Regards Andy Price BAE SYSTEMS Avionics email andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Pre-amps for EMC Use
Hi everyone Can anyone help, I am trying to identify a per-amplifier low noise gain 29dB to 36dB to cover frequency range 1GHz to 18GHz for Emission testing. I know HP do a couple but usual problem expensive and I only have a limited budget. Has anyone used a DBS Microwave amplifier type DBS-0119N410? Are they suitable for emission testing? Any help would be gratefully received. Regards Andy Price BAE SYSTEMS Avionics email andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
