Re: [Emc-users] synchronous belt supply

2010-12-30 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2010/12/29 Bill Hribar billhri...@yahoo.com:
 Hi All!

 Happy New Year!

 Anyway, dues anyone have a good source for synchronous belts and pulleys, with
 reasonable prices?


Can anyone suggest a good source for worm-gearbox? Or whatever
reductors they use in robot arms - I have to build one. Thanks!

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] Proper treatment of Back Gear on a Bridgeport mill

2010-12-30 Thread andy pugh
On 30 December 2010 03:45, Don Stanley dstanley1...@gmail.com wrote:

 I use the following Hal logic to maintain the spindle speed (S setting)
 and direction when in Hi or Low gear on my Bridgeport.
snip

That seems to replicate in HAL what the gearchange component does. I
am not entirely sure that that is what Igor needs, as he has no VFD to
take the PWM value.
Igor possibly needs a wcomp to operate the air valves on the variable
speed drive, and a mux or similar to swap the action when in
back-gear.

-- 
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Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men

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Re: [Emc-users] synchronous belt supply

2010-12-30 Thread andy pugh
On 30 December 2010 10:03, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:

 Can anyone suggest a good source for worm-gearbox?

If you don't specify cheap and affordable too then you can look at
www.hpcgears.com

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Re: [Emc-users] synchronous belt supply

2010-12-30 Thread Peter Blodow
Hello Viesturs,
have a look at www.*harmonicdrive*.de/.
They make gear boxes with a very high reduction rate in one stage, 
absolutely backlash free. The principle is the rotation of a so called 
flexible spline (having (n) teeth around its outside) which is steadily 
deformed by the rotating elliptical (really!) ball bearing inside. The 
spline, in turn, rotates engaged inside the gear box having (n+2) teeth 
inside. So, one rotation of the ellipse makes the spline wander by only 
2 teeth giving a high reduction rate, typically 100:1. Those gear 
boxes are relatively small, too. There is no momentum on the driven 
axis, all force is exerted at the circumference causing high stiffness.

They are used for large telescopes, for instance, where these properties 
- together with a lot of torque - are essential. They have their price, 
though, I believe. By the way: I don't get paid by the company, just 
considered using those drives for my telescope mount some time ago.
There is another (Bavarian!) company near us that was taken over by the 
Japanese recently. They use the cycloid principle for reduction, rather 
similar. Look at www.sumitomodriveeurope.com.

Greetings and best wishes for the New Year from
Peter Blodow


Viesturs La-cis schrieb:
 2010/12/29 Bill Hribar billhri...@yahoo.com:
   
 Hi All!

 Happy New Year!

 Anyway, dues anyone have a good source for synchronous belts and pulleys, 
 with
 reasonable prices?

 

 Can anyone suggest a good source for worm-gearbox? Or whatever
 reductors they use in robot arms - I have to build one. Thanks!

 Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC4PC Servo controllers (a new Wiki page?)

2010-12-30 Thread Kent A. Reed
[my comments are embedded]

On 12/24/2010 2:38 PM, cogoman wrote:
 I looked on the Wiki, and believe I could provide something that
 would be useful.  I could include more information to give a more
 complete treatment of the time limiting factors of using stepper
 motors.  I have a few questions to try to make it more informative, and
 since I've never posted to the Wiki I could use some advice.

I'm no Wiki expert but I think you can divine a lot by finding pages on 
the existing Wiki you want to emulate and examining their markup in 
editing mode. Also, see the extensive info on this particular Wiki 
engine at http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl
 1: Can I compose this offline using Open Office Writer, and transfer the
 final form to the Wiki?
Hmmm. I've never tried. When you log in to the Wiki a new upload link 
appears at the top of each page (in addition to the new edit text of 
this page link at the bottom) so I assume one can upload a file of 
formatted page(s) and then create Wiki links to it from existing pages. 
Perhaps one of the core wiki maintainers can comment. It would be a bore 
to have to cut-and-paste many pages between a local editor and the Wiki 
editor.
 2: Some tables would be helpful.  How can I include tables in the Wiki?
See http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TextFormattingRules/WikiTables 
or just make the table into an image and goto 3.
 3: I could use to include one or two plots from Switcher Cad (many
 thanks to the folks at LT).  Can I include them as .jpg or .png?
See http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TextFormattingRules#Images for 
the linkage rules. I've never done it but again I assume one can upload 
the image files first and then create Wiki links to them in the edited page.
 4: Can you help me with the outline of what to put in there?
I apologize for not responding earlier. Life has dealt me some harsh 
real-world distractions (not, thankfully, involving an over- or 
under-abundance of water!).

First, thanks for taking the time to generate this outline. I suggested 
you contribute an ounce and in response you're offering a pound! I 
haven't had time to think about the subject carefully so I'm not yet 
prepared to comment in detail.

I am warmed by your use of words like useful and more informative :-)

As a general observation, and speaking only for myself, I would expect 
the EMC2 wiki to emphasize practical aspects of technology as it applies 
to configuring, using, or troubleshooting EMC2 and simply reference 
other, more expository accounts, such as the nearly legendary Jones work.

Taking your first topic, for example, I'd want the discussion to help me 
select EMC2 parameters for an existing stepper motor and driver in light 
of these limitations. Should I decide motor and/or driver is unsuitable, 
I'd look to this discussion to help guide my selection of more suitable 
ones. One of the things I really liked about your response to Catherine 
was your use of real-world numbers.

Again, if good material already exists on the web, let's just link to it 
along with an explanation of why it's worth reading :-)

I especially like your thoughts about how all this affects machining. 
That's what we're here for!
 Perhaps it could be called What Limits a Stepper Motor's Speed in EMC2
 1:  How inductance/voltage/current limits the max stepper motor speed
 and how torque drops as speed increases.
 2:  How the step/direction interface vs quadrature A/B interface affects
 performance along with how discrete speed changes as you approach max
 step rate can hurt performance.
 3:  How resonances can reduce the maximum speed.
 4:  How micro-stepping reduces torque from full step torque.

 Perhaps I could include a little discussion on how an axis getting
 behind during cutting might not affect the quality of the part (when the
 tool slows to take a corner, the axis can catch up).
 How most machining is done at low speeds where torque in a stepper
 system is good.

 Any suggestions of how to tweak this outline will be helpful.  Thanks!

remainder deleted for brevity

Again, thanks for your positive response and I look forward to further 
discussion after the holidays.

Best wishes in the coming year.

Regards,
Kent

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[Emc-users] Harmonic Drives

2010-12-30 Thread H J Johnson
Just make sure the ones you buy are rated for the torque you need. The level of 
transmittable torque is the weakest link in a HD.

Fwiw

J. Johnson

- Original Message -
From: Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de
Date: Thursday, December 30, 2010 5:48 am
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] synchronous belt supply

 Hello Viesturs,
 have a look at www.*harmonicdrive*.de/.
 They make gear boxes with a very high reduction rate in one stage, 
 absolutely backlash free. The principle is the rotation of a so 
 called 
 flexible spline (having (n) teeth around its outside) which is 
 steadily 
 deformed by the rotating elliptical (really!) ball bearing inside. 
 The 
 spline, in turn, rotates engaged inside the gear box having (n+2) 
 teeth 
 inside. So, one rotation of the ellipse makes the spline wander by 
 only 
 2 teeth giving a high reduction rate, typically 100:1. Those 
 gear 
 boxes are relatively small, too. There is no momentum on the 
 driven 
 axis, all force is exerted at the circumference causing high 
 stiffness.
 They are used for large telescopes, for instance, where these 
 properties 
 - together with a lot of torque - are essential. They have their 
 price, 
 though, I believe. By the way: I don't get paid by the company, 
 just 
 considered using those drives for my telescope mount some time ago.
 There is another (Bavarian!) company near us that was taken over 
 by the 
 Japanese recently. They use the cycloid principle for reduction, 
 rather 
 similar. Look at www.sumitomodriveeurope.com.
 
 Greetings and best wishes for the New Year from
 Peter Blodow
 
 
 Viesturs La-cis schrieb:
  2010/12/29 Bill Hribar billhri...@yahoo.com:

  Hi All!
 
  Happy New Year!
 
  Anyway, dues anyone have a good source for synchronous belts 
 and pulleys, with
  reasonable prices?
 
  
 
  Can anyone suggest a good source for worm-gearbox? Or whatever
  reductors they use in robot arms - I have to build one. Thanks!
 
  Viesturs
 
  -
 -
  Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows 
 customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their 
 database environment, and, 
  should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC 
 database 
  without downtime or disruption
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 database 
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Re: [Emc-users] Proper treatment of Back Gear on a Bridgeport mill

2010-12-30 Thread Thomas Powderly
if there are many index signals during motion, then use a 'near home'
swx to identify which one and home in one direction
the 'near home' switch should reduce the velocity so the index is reliable.
i used a 90 to 1 gearing on a 3R Caxis with a prox switch and dog to
identify which of 90 indexes was the correct index.
the dog was simply a sheet metal flag on the rotating bit, the prox
was in a hole thru the outer casting
keep the index in center of any dog to dog cycle
hth
tomp

On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:
 Igor Chudov wrote:
 Oh, and one more thing: the index signal on the encoder, does not mean a
 full turn in back gear. It means -1/8 of a turn. Will that be a problem?


 The only problem is that you won't be able to re-tap a particular hole,
 as the tap will
 enter with one of 8 possible orientations.  But, I'm too timid to try
 anything like that,
 anyway.  This would be unacceptable on a lathe, where multi-pass
 threading is
 common.  But, I don't really see it as a particular problem for rigid
 tapping on the
 mill.

 Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Proper treatment of Back Gear on a Bridgeport mill

2010-12-30 Thread Jon Elson
Thomas Powderly wrote:
 if there are many index signals during motion, then use a 'near home'
 swx to identify which one and home in one direction
 the 'near home' switch should reduce the velocity so the index is reliable.
 i used a 90 to 1 gearing on a 3R Caxis with a prox switch and dog to
 identify which of 90 indexes was the correct index.
 the dog was simply a sheet metal flag on the rotating bit, the prox
 was in a hole thru the outer casting
 keep the index in center of any dog to dog cycle
   
We are talking about a spindle encoder here, and the special case where 
the actual spindle
is pretty much inaccessible to mount an encoder.  I solved this in my 1J 
Bridgeport head
by putting 3 gear-tooth sensors inside the head to effectively turn the 
bull gear into an encoder
disk.  Some other Bridgeport heads make even this scheme hard to do.  
Igor has a way to
access a shaft that is at the input to the back gear mechanism, so it is 
either 1:1 with the spindle
or turning at a faster speed but with a fixed ratio.  So, the original 
problem returns, that it would
be hard to get a once/rev sensor directly on the spindle.  If he was 
going to go to the trouble of
doing that, he might as well put 3 in there and make it an encoder.


Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Do _Not_ Clean Your Machines

2010-12-30 Thread Yann Jautard
I'm not sure what remains after drying WD40 is oil, because it doesn't look 
greasy. Just dry. And doesnt leave marks on clothes like oil does.

But also protects less efficiently than pure oil.



- Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com a écrit :

 WD-40 is mostly composed of a solvent that evaporates, leaving a thin
 layer
 of oil.
 
 I am not sure why one would want to pay for solvent, for rustproofing
 purposes, so I prefer buying straight sprayable oil.
 
 i
 
 On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 8:30 AM, yann jautard brico...@free.fr
 wrote:
 
  WD40 is said to be such a product.
 
  I buy it by 5liters cans and use it also in spray bottle. Old
 bottle
  from window cleaner is very convenient :)
 
 
 
 
  Le 29/12/2010 14:10, Igor Chudov a écrit :
   There are some rust preventative sprays that 1) adhere to surfaces
 2)
   displace water 3) do not become sticky over time.
  
   Examples include LPS-2. I buy it by the gallon and put in spray
 bottles.
  
   i
  
   On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 7:00 AM, yann jautardbrico...@free.fr 
 wrote:
  
   Le 27/12/2010 02:22, Kirk Wallace a écrit :
   The rain came and put a 1/8 of water across the whole shop,
 then sunny
   the next day and turned the shop into a sauna on freezing cold
 steel.
   Only the few cruddy parts of my machines escaped the rust. I'm
 _really_
   pissed with mother nature right now, but I guess I should be
 thankful,
   it could be worse (don't know how, oops more rain Tuesday). If
 my
   machines were dirty I'd be okay.
   Sad news. Sorry for you.
  
   I use WD40 to protect all the unpainted parts from rust. Spray it
 after
   cleaning, it dry in two or three days, then doesn't look oiled
 any more,
   but still prevent the rust.
  
   One old machinist I met a few years ago also used petrol to
 prevent the
   rust. Sprayed it all over the machine. Works well. But keeps a
   oiled/greasy aspect.
  
  
  
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Proper treatment of Back Gear on a Bridgeport mill

2010-12-30 Thread Igor Chudov
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:

 Thomas Powderly wrote:
  if there are many index signals during motion, then use a 'near home'
  swx to identify which one and home in one direction
  the 'near home' switch should reduce the velocity so the index is
 reliable.
  i used a 90 to 1 gearing on a 3R Caxis with a prox switch and dog to
  identify which of 90 indexes was the correct index.
  the dog was simply a sheet metal flag on the rotating bit, the prox
  was in a hole thru the outer casting
  keep the index in center of any dog to dog cycle
 
 We are talking about a spindle encoder here, and the special case where
 the actual spindle
 is pretty much inaccessible to mount an encoder.  I solved this in my 1J
 Bridgeport head
 by putting 3 gear-tooth sensors inside the head to effectively turn the
 bull gear into an encoder
 disk.  Some other Bridgeport heads make even this scheme hard to do.
 Igor has a way to
 access a shaft that is at the input to the back gear mechanism, so it is
 either 1:1 with the spindle
 or turning at a faster speed but with a fixed ratio.  So, the original
 problem returns, that it would
 be hard to get a once/rev sensor directly on the spindle.  If he was
 going to go to the trouble of
 doing that, he might as well put 3 in there and make it an encoder.



It would appear that the index count is only necessary if I want to re-tap
an existing hole, so I do not really care too much for it.

If I have the exact ratio of back gear, I would be just fine using the
gearchange component, it appears.

I am working on 4th axis right now, but once I am done, I will work on the
back gear.

i
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Re: [Emc-users] Do _Not_ Clean Your Machines

2010-12-30 Thread Eric Keller
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Yann Jautard brico...@free.fr wrote:
 I'm not sure what remains after drying WD40 is oil, because it doesn't look 
 greasy. Just dry. And doesnt leave marks on clothes like oil does.

 But also protects less efficiently than pure oil.


My experience as a bike mechanic is that WD-40 offers almost no
protection against rust.  Although sometimes almost no protection is
enough protection.  I use Johnston paste wax for rust protection.  I
have thought about getting some Boesheild T-9, which is reportedly
available from Sears.  But the paste wax works well.
Eric Keller
Boalsburg, PA

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Re: [Emc-users] Proper treatment of Back Gear on a Bridgeport mill

2010-12-30 Thread Thomas Powderly
Jon, Igor,
i got it
maybe identifying the setup with a picture might be of use
heres a good breakdown of a j head
http://home.comcast.net/~tom.jelly/j%20head%20rebuild%20web%20page/j%20head%20rebuild.htm
tomp

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[Emc-users] get'n started

2010-12-30 Thread kqt4at5v
Try to overlook my ignorance
If I use stepconf to modify a config file it discards any manual changes I had 
previously made
Can I change this behavior
Using the Axis interface I have File - Edit tool table
It does not open the tool.tbl file and when I add a new tool it deletes the 
previously defined tools and writes a strange format
I appreciate any suggestions

Richard

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Re: [Emc-users] get'n started

2010-12-30 Thread Eric Keller
My suggestion is to save a copy under a different name before you use stepconf.
Eric


On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 5:10 PM,  kqt4a...@comcast.net wrote:
 Try to overlook my ignorance
 If I use stepconf to modify a config file it discards any manual changes I 
 had previously made
 Can I change this behavior
 Using the Axis interface I have File - Edit tool table
 It does not open the tool.tbl file and when I add a new tool it deletes the 
 previously defined tools and writes a strange format
 I appreciate any suggestions

 Richard

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Re: [Emc-users] Do _Not_ Clean Your Machines

2010-12-30 Thread Dave
Has anyone ever tried Penetrol?

It is a paint additive for oil based paints and it claims to be an 
effective rust preventer.

I haven't tried it.

An old woodworker I once new swore by the use of paraffin mixed into 
kerosene.   You heat up some kerosene in a pan and dissolve paraffin wax 
into the kerosene.

Paint the mixture onto  machined surfaces.The kerosene dries out 
slowly and leaves a super thin layer of wax on the surface.

I haven't tried that either.  :-)

Dave

On 12/30/2010 12:45 PM, Eric Keller wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Yann Jautardbrico...@free.fr  wrote:

 I'm not sure what remains after drying WD40 is oil, because it doesn't look 
 greasy. Just dry. And doesnt leave marks on clothes like oil does.

 But also protects less efficiently than pure oil.

  
 My experience as a bike mechanic is that WD-40 offers almost no
 protection against rust.  Although sometimes almost no protection is
 enough protection.  I use Johnston paste wax for rust protection.  I
 have thought about getting some Boesheild T-9, which is reportedly
 available from Sears.  But the paste wax works well.
 Eric Keller
 Boalsburg, PA

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Re: [Emc-users] get'n started

2010-12-30 Thread Kirk Wallace
On Thu, 2010-12-30 at 16:10 -0600, kqt4a...@comcast.net wrote:
 Try to overlook my ignorance
 If I use stepconf to modify a config file it discards any manual changes I 
 had previously made
 Can I change this behavior
 Using the Axis interface I have File - Edit tool table
 It does not open the tool.tbl file and when I add a new tool it deletes the 
 previously defined tools and writes a strange format
 I appreciate any suggestions
 
 Richard

I haven't used Stepconf, so I can't offer any advise on it. Making
configuration changes manually is not that hard and keeping different
file versions is a little more transparent. The text editor can be found
on your desktop at Applications - Accessories - Text Editor. The
configuration files are under your home
directory, /home/user_name/emc2/configs ...

I just remembered, there is a getting started guide here:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/EMC2_Getting_Started.pdf 

There is a Stepconfig section and toward the end are some pointers on
using Linux. The general documentation page is here:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/5/5/lang,english/ 

If you need real time help there is an IRC chat channel on #emc
irc.freenode.net, some info here:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/content/view/4/8/lang,en/ 

You can try the Java client link, but I don't recall if Java is
installed by default. There is also Pidgin Internet Messenger in the
Applications - Internet menu. I don't recall if this is in the default
install either. I have used http://www.mibbit.com/ which runs in the
cloud, so no installation is needed (Oops I can't seem to get it to work
right now). If you have done IRC chat before, then you should not have
too much trouble.

This should give you some leads to follow. Good luck.

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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