[Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
Greetings; Actually, thinking of the springs out of old 1 wide 15+ foot tape measures. Has anyone done this, and taken a pix of how you anchored the ends of the spring so that there was enough pivot available so that it didn't force the spring out of shape with potential dirt leaks as it telescoped? It seems to me that solidly anchored ends would encourage its warping as it telescoped. I am inclined to machine a hub the right diameter for each end but doing a knob only the springs thickness high to fit a hole in the spring may be beyond my machining ability even with EDM. Thanks for any URL's I can plagiarize. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml Put your best foot forward. Or just call in and say you're sick. I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- Master HTML5, CSS3, ASP.NET, MVC, AJAX, Knockout.js, Web API and much more. Get web development skills now with LearnDevNow - 350+ hours of step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122812 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
On Friday 11 January 2013 15:04:59 andy pugh did opine: Message additions Copyright Friday 11 January 2013 by Gene Heskett On 11 January 2013 17:58, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Actually, thinking of the springs out of old 1 wide 15+ foot tape measures. I doubt that they will work unless you re-roll them. If you buy a spring cover then you have to fit it on the screw first, then snip the wires, at which point it springs out to whatever extent it can. Tape measure springs want to be large and flat. Screw-cover springs want to be small and elongated. It would be possible to make a set of rollers to re-train the springs, but it would be quite a lot of work. Humm, I'm 78 Andy, even at that, probably more time than money. What few of those covers I have seen were all well above the hundred dollar marker on this side of the pond. And I have considered making spring rollers before wouldn't consider it much more than an exercise in making a roller holding tool to roll it around a suitably sized mandrel in the lathe. But what do you call wires? Tape measures over here on this side of the pond generally contain a flat spring (flat as opposed the the across the width curve the tape itself is given to stiffen it for a good standout or stickout without the tape breaking over) that is usually very close to the tapes width, in this case about 25mm. If anchored at the ends to a hub on each end, with one hub being x number of turns of the thickness bigger than the one anchoring what would be the inside, fixed post end, And anchored at each end to a non-rotating hub so that it will come 'unwound' only if its broken, then it seems like it ought to slide sideways in and out of itself regardless of any tension it exerts to unwind itself. Got my curiosity up, I'll go knock an old one apart just for SG. Back when I've had time to fiddle with it a bit. Thanks Andy. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml You're working under a slight handicap. You happen to be human. I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- Master HTML5, CSS3, ASP.NET, MVC, AJAX, Knockout.js, Web API and much more. Get web development skills now with LearnDevNow - 350+ hours of step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122812 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
On Friday 11 January 2013 15:38:36 Jon Elson did opine: Message additions Copyright Friday 11 January 2013 by Gene Heskett On 01/11/2013 11:58 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: Greetings; Actually, thinking of the springs out of old 1 wide 15+ foot tape measures. Has anyone done this, and taken a pix of how you anchored the ends of the spring so that there was enough pivot available so that it didn't force the spring out of shape with potential dirt leaks as it telescoped? It seems to me that solidly anchored ends would encourage its warping as it telescoped. I am inclined to machine a hub the right diameter for each end but doing a knob only the springs thickness high to fit a hole in the spring may be beyond my machining ability even with EDM. Thanks for any URL's I can plagiarize. Cheers, Gene The commercial ones seem to be tapered, ie. the strip is wider in the middle, and narrows at the ends. I'm not sure that is necessary. Jon Was that perhaps a lopsided taper? eg the end edge trimmed so as to allow the taper to approach the anchoring end flange when collapsed? I just took a cheap but still good Great Neck 25 footer apart, and the springs normal position when the tape is fully retracted, is in a fairly tight coil against the inside of the spool, and drawn toward the center of the spool as the tape is pulled out. That would indicate that its relaxed shape is likely flat about 26 feet long. The inner diameter of the containment pocket in the spool is of course determined by how much space the tape fills in a nominally 2.75 diameter spool, and looks to be about 1.75 with another 25 feet of tape on the spool. I think it could be made to work, with or without putting the spring thru forming rollers as long as it was suitably anchored on both ends. But it would have to have the ability to pivot on the anchor points by 20 degrees or so sideways in order not to cause it to buckle near the anchors when the length changes. Cheap tape measures with big enough springs can be had for a total spring cost of 15 to 20 USD. The hubs would be the shape controlling factor there. Which is why I'm looking for ideas. In fact, it might be best to make the larger diameter end that I'd put against the bearing bosses, not a hub, but a containment cup. Put the hubs against the nuts flanges. This screw I have on order is 675MM long so I can put the right end floating bearing about 2 to the right of the existing bearing, so I'd have room for the cup without losing any travel. Needs about 625mm according to my very rough measurements. About 6 of the left end of the screw is inside the electronics housing and not usable for carriage travel anyway. I knew there was a reason I bought the longer screw. :) The left end is not a problem unless I can find a collet setup for that small a spindle, which would gain me about 40mm of travel there. That would be nice, but probably made out of pure un-obtainium for the 7x12. In fact, I am not at all sure if the headstock even has a Morse taper capability on this toy. Ugly thought just now Jon. Do these nuts have a lube port I'd have to leave uncovered? There was some sort of a red plug, looked flush with the OD on the side of it in the poor res pix on fleabay. Thanks Jon. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml Do you mean that you not only want a wrong answer, but a certain wrong answer? -- Tobaben I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- Master HTML5, CSS3, ASP.NET, MVC, AJAX, Knockout.js, Web API and much more. Get web development skills now with LearnDevNow - 350+ hours of step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122812 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
On 11 January 2013 20:20, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Humm, I'm 78 Andy, even at that, probably more time than money. What few of those covers I have seen were all well above the hundred dollar marker on this side of the pond. Some of the mini-lathes come with spring-guards as standard. You might get lucky with a spare part. The one I bought for my machine wasn't that expensive: From: DQR Precision Ltd Further to our telecon, I have attached a couple of pages from our spiral catalogue which I hope will be of use. We are pleased to offer as follows: Qty Description Unit Price £ 1 ‘Duraspring’ Spiral Cover in Blue Steel 55.58 SF 30/450/50 V 1 ‘Duraspring’ Spiral Cover in Blue Steel 51.16 SF 30/400/30 V 1 ‘Duraspring’ Spiral Cover in Blue Steel 52.08 SF 30/350/50 V But what do you call wires? They come held together with a loop of wire. When you snip the wire they fly out to full extension. The idea is to put them on the screw, close up the gap as small as possible _then_ snip the wire. Even at full extension the one on my Z axis isn't all that easy to pull up to oil the screw. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/rAELzB_258RZqjlFQatN-NMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink It is held in place only by its own preload. The spigots just centre it so it doesn't touch the screw. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Master HTML5, CSS3, ASP.NET, MVC, AJAX, Knockout.js, Web API and much more. Get web development skills now with LearnDevNow - 350+ hours of step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122812 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
On Friday 11 January 2013 19:19:01 andy pugh did opine: Message additions Copyright Friday 11 January 2013 by Gene Heskett On 11 January 2013 20:20, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Humm, I'm 78 Andy, even at that, probably more time than money. What few of those covers I have seen were all well above the hundred dollar marker on this side of the pond. Some of the mini-lathes come with spring-guards as standard. You might get lucky with a spare part. The one I bought for my machine wasn't that expensive: From: DQR Precision Ltd Further to our telecon, I have attached a couple of pages from our spiral catalogue which I hope will be of use. We are pleased to offer as follows: Qty Description Unit Price £ 1 ‘Duraspring’ Spiral Cover in Blue Steel 55.58 SF 30/450/50 V 1 ‘Duraspring’ Spiral Cover in Blue Steel 51.16 SF 30/400/30 V 1 ‘Duraspring’ Spiral Cover in Blue Steel 52.08 SF 30/350/50 V But what do you call wires? They come held together with a loop of wire. When you snip the wire they fly out to full extension. The idea is to put them on the screw, close up the gap as small as possible _then_ snip the wire. Even at full extension the one on my Z axis isn't all that easy to pull up to oil the screw. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/rAELzB_258RZqjlFQatN-NMTjNZETYmyPJ y0liipFm0?feat=directlink It is held in place only by its own preload. The spigots just centre it so it doesn't touch the screw. Unforch, it doesn't appear they want any business from my side of the pond, no links to individual products at all, and a very limited web page, looks like a line card from a distributer for me. And, while those are better prices, one would need one on each side of the nut, which puts that at about the same as the cost of the screw. I'll cobble up something before I make swarf with it though. Thanks Andy. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml Joe's sister puts spaghetti in her shoes! I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
On 12 January 2013 00:23, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Unforch, it doesn't appear they want any business from my side of the pond, no links to individual products at all, and a very limited web page, looks like a line card from a distributer for me. Quite likely. DQR just happened to be the ones who would take an order from me. And, while those are better prices, one would need one on each side of the nut, which puts that at about the same as the cost of the screw. FWIW my lathe has been running with a bare screw for a few years now, with no problems so far. The ballnut does have rubber inserts though, to keep out most of the mess. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
Unforch, it doesn't appear they want any business from my side of the pond, no links to individual products at all, and a very limited web page, looks like a line card from a distributer for me. And, while those are better prices, one would need one on each side of the nut, which puts that at about the same as the cost of the screw. I'll cobble up something before I make swarf with it though. Welcome to the UK. Industrial supplies that do have prices online tend to be daylight robbery with violence. For example, looking at online prices only; black mild steel costs ~5 times as much as bright machined aluminium. A lot of companies won't respond to e-mail, or if they do, it's to request a phone call. Other companies will ignore phone calls, but reply to e-mails. *mutter* That said, my lathe (which has sealed ballscrew bearings) has telescopic springs on half of the Z axis, with the X axis being enclosed. The other half *should* have a spring cover, but since it was broken I left it alone. This has not resulted in any problems yet. Turning has been limited to fairly soft materials though, so no sparks from CBN inserts. The mill has a sheet of PU over the ways, which does a surprisingly effective job, I appreciate this doesn't work on lathes - but I can't see any mention of the type of machine you're using at the moment. Cheers Ben -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
If it's worth the hassle to. Reshape the spring, I can picture wrapping it around a ceramic rod spiraling. Then using 3 propane torches. Attached to point toward the assembly from 120 degrees apart gradually move them from one end of the assembly to the other, slowly enough to get the metal cherry red, while quenching the red end in water or oil. You'll probably have to borrow a torch or two, and perhaps wood could be used instead of ceramic if there's enough water to put out the flames. 8-) Sent from my Kyocera Rise -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
On 12 January 2013 00:41, Ben Potter b...@bpuk.org wrote: The mill has a sheet of PU over the ways, which does a surprisingly effective job, I appreciate this doesn't work on lathes Something like this might: http://byerplastic.en.made-in-china.com/productimage/hoJQxTkwhdWV-2f0j00uZBTiMmjkRoO/China-Collapsible-Hose-Pipe-Respirator-Hose-for-Hospital-Equpipment.html -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
Something like this might: http://byerplastic.en.made-in-china.com/productimage/hoJQxTkwhdWV- 2f0j00uZBTiMmjkRoO/China-Collapsible-Hose-Pipe-Respirator-Hose-for- Hospital-Equpipment.html Darn it Andy. It's the weekend, I'm trying to not think about stuff to make for work! I have enough 'projects' as it is! But yeah, that could work, assuming your screw is longer than your travel to allow for compression. -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
On 11 January 2013 21:19, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Cheap tape measures with big enough springs can be had for a total spring cost of 15 to 20 USD. http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/497219348/cnc_machine_telescopic_spring_covers.html $10 max price, though you need to buy 10. plus shipping. I bet you could sell on the extras though. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
On Friday 11 January 2013 19:57:40 andy pugh did opine: Message additions Copyright Friday 11 January 2013 by Gene Heskett On 12 January 2013 00:23, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Unforch, it doesn't appear they want any business from my side of the pond, no links to individual products at all, and a very limited web page, looks like a line card from a distributer for me. Quite likely. DQR just happened to be the ones who would take an order from me. And, while those are better prices, one would need one on each side of the nut, which puts that at about the same as the cost of the screw. FWIW my lathe has been running with a bare screw for a few years now, with no problems so far. The ballnut does have rubber inserts though, to keep out most of the mess. If I hear from the seller, which I should, I have an unanswered message in his inbox, I will ask if he has those for the nuts, its another trail to explore. Even those would probably outlast me AFAIAC, I'm not done yet. :) Thanks Andy. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml We are drowning in information but starved for knowledge. -- John Naisbitt, Megatrends I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
But yeah, that could work, assuming your screw is longer than your travel to allow for compression. Dyson hose has rather an impressive extension ratio.. Indeed. But when I'm at the faceplate I have ~3mm of travel before hitting the ballscrew bearings - ~550mm of travel from there - I'd be impressed by any hose that had that sort of compression ratio. I did have to pull the limit switches to machine the faceplate - so not exactly normal machining - but still... -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
On Friday 11 January 2013 20:02:12 Ben Potter did opine: Message additions Copyright Friday 11 January 2013 by Gene Heskett Unforch, it doesn't appear they want any business from my side of the pond, no links to individual products at all, and a very limited web page, looks like a line card from a distributer for me. And, while those are better prices, one would need one on each side of the nut, which puts that at about the same as the cost of the screw. I'll cobble up something before I make swarf with it though. Welcome to the UK. Industrial supplies that do have prices online tend to be daylight robbery with violence. For example, looking at online prices only; black mild steel costs ~5 times as much as bright machined aluminium. A lot of companies won't respond to e-mail, or if they do, it's to request a phone call. Other companies will ignore phone calls, but reply to e-mails. *mutter* That said, my lathe (which has sealed ballscrew bearings) has telescopic springs on half of the Z axis, with the X axis being enclosed. The other half *should* have a spring cover, but since it was broken I left it alone. This has not resulted in any problems yet. Turning has been limited to fairly soft materials though, so no sparks from CBN inserts. The mill has a sheet of PU over the ways, which does a surprisingly effective job, I appreciate this doesn't work on lathes - but I can't see any mention of the type of machine you're using at the moment. Cheers Ben 7x12 lathe with 8x2.5mm ball screw fairly well covered for the X crossfeed, motor on the rear. Z motor on the left, 2/1 gear between motor and OEM 16 tpi 3/4 screw ATM. This is the screw being discussed. HF micro-mill with expansion tables from LMS, home made Z drive, some early pix of it on my web page. Std (but longer) screws on xy. Lotta miles on it. Plastic spur cut gears in gearbox have been totaled a couple times now. Anything I left out, just yell Ben. Thanks. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml No skis take rocks like rental skis! I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
On 12 January 2013 01:05, Ben Potter b...@bpuk.org wrote: Indeed. But when I'm at the faceplate I have ~3mm of travel before hitting the ballscrew bearings - Same here. If I was doing the conversion again the ballscrew would be shifted 6 towards the headstock end. The part past the tailstock is utterly wasted. (it's not like you ever turn _really_ long stuff without the tailstock. (I have no fixed-steady) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
On Friday 11 January 2013 20:13:00 Cogoman did opine: Message additions Copyright Friday 11 January 2013 by Gene Heskett If it's worth the hassle to. Reshape the spring, I can picture wrapping it around a ceramic rod spiraling. Then using 3 propane torches. Attached to point toward the assembly from 120 degrees apart gradually move them from one end of the assembly to the other, slowly enough to get the metal cherry red, while quenching the red end in water or oil. You'll probably have to borrow a torch or two, and perhaps wood could be used instead of ceramic if there's enough water to put out the flames. 8-) Sent from my Kyocera Rise If I do it, probably with a pretty small mandrel and something like a knurling tool, but with ball bearings for the knurling wheels. That might not work of course, but it would be my first try. :) Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml There *__is* intelligent life on Earth, but I leave for Texas on Monday. I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
On 12 January 2013 00:48, Cogoman cogo...@optimum.net wrote: If it's worth the hassle to. Reshape the spring, I can picture wrapping it around a ceramic rod spiraling. Then using 3 propane torches. Attached to point toward the assembly from 120 degrees apart gradually move them from one end of the assembly to the other, slowly enough to get the metal cherry red, while quenching the red end in water or oil. That's not how you make springs. They are cold-formed. Quenching and tempering will ruin the microstructure. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Using 'clock' spring for dust cover on ball screw
On Friday 11 January 2013 20:28:49 andy pugh did opine: Message additions Copyright Friday 11 January 2013 by Gene Heskett On 11 January 2013 21:19, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Cheap tape measures with big enough springs can be had for a total spring cost of 15 to 20 USD. http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/497219348/cnc_machine_telescopic_sprin g_covers.html $10 max price, though you need to buy 10. plus shipping. I bet you could sell on the extras though. Probably! But no dimensions given. I'll bookmark chat Monday evening. No clue if I could mix match in that qty 10 either. Thanks Andy. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml I did it just to piss you off. :-P -- Branden Robinson in a message to debian-devel I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] LinuxCNC for DIY 3D Printing
TL;DR summary: advice needed on a LinuxCNC-based 3D printer project. The background... About a year ago, high-end DIY 3D printers outstripped the capabilities of Arduino-based controllers: the gymnastics required to stuff acceleration control into 8 bit microcontrollers appears to be a dead end. There's a notion of re-re-writing the Arduino firmware in 32 bit style for [ARM | Beagle | RPi | whatever] running on another generation of custom microcontroller boards. Rather than waiting for more of the same, I want to explore what LinuxCNC can enable for an advanced (albeit Cartesian) DIY 3D printer, starting with a solid motion-control foundation plus all the other features LinuxCNC provides, the ones that would require serious firmware development for Arduino-based code. For example... Hard real time motion control, rather than interrupt-based motor handlers that go awry when userland code inadvertently disables interrupts to bit-bang an I2C peripheral. Userland scripting, extensible language features, a G-Code dialect with loops / branching / subroutines, stuff like that. Probing the build platform to correct for for height variation and misalignment: probekins. I think a HAL-based extruder model that could include second- and third-order effects should provide better control than a simple linear/angular axis, particularly for a printer with multiple extruders. The plasma torch controller modules seem like good starting points. Similarly, ladder logic offers interesting possibilities for an extruder tool changer. LinuxCNC offers a *much* better UI, with devices that aren't teleported from 1990. I want to get a Touchy interface running early, just to show it off, plus the usual gamepad jogging and suchlike. Network-aware capabilities right out of the box, a real operating system, and enough compute power storage to make everything work. Plus all the topics I can barely pronounce when you folks discuss using them on your industrial machinery. The hardware plan... I'll start with a stock Makergear M2, which seems to be the most solid and well-designed DIY printer currently available. I'd prefer an enclosure to stabilize the ambient temperature, but that's basically a big box. Once the stock M2 works well enough, replace its RAMBo controller with Mesa 5i25 + 7i76. The 7i76 has enough robust digital outputs to drive SSRs for heaters and whatnot, with HAL components closing the temperature loops. The thermal time constants seem long enough to not require high-frequency PWM proportional control, which should simplify things. It also has sufficient digital inputs for home switches, probe contacts, and stuff like that. However, the printer controller also needs multi-channel thermocouple inputs, because thermistors seem underqualified for long-term measurements at 200+ C. I'd like to use a Mesa 7i87 for analog input, but it appears unsupported by the HostMot2 driver: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Mesa_Cards An alternative might be some Arduino love with this shield, although four channels seems limiting: http://www.mlgp-llc.com/arduino/public/arduino-pcb.html The Mesa 7i32 stepper driver board doesn't connect to the 5i25 at all. I don't know whether a Gecko G540 4 channel board (which is one axis shy of what I want) would make more sense than a quintet of M542H boards hot from the usual eBay vendor, but, for sure, blowing a single-channel board would be much less painful than taking out the Gecko. Although I have some of those tiny Pololu drivers, I think they're underqualified for this job. I'd love to be proven wrong. The goal is to produce a 3D printer with a contemporary control system that's easily extensible and isn't constrained by the quirks of DIY 3D history. Eventually, I want to tinker with better printer mechanics, in particular extruders, but the M2 should suffice for much of the proof-of-concept work. I have the attention of a guy who knows his way around the innards of the latest accelerated-motion-control Arduino firmware. I'll get my M2 running to show it's possible, then poke around at system improvements, after which he can build a similar setup and begin doing wonderful things. What I need... Guidance around my blind spots! F'r instance, I'm sure I've missed a hardware gotcha. Are there more practical ways to drive five stepper axes, get a bunch of digital I/O, and read thermocouples? Although I'm generally a big fan of lashing up surplus parts in my shop, I want to do this with reasonably standard hardware, so as to simplify building the next one. It's coming out of my pocket, however: the sky is *not* the budgetary limit. I'll surely have a bunch more questions as I make progress over the next few months (the M2 will likely take several months to arrive), but I'd appreciate any advice in the interim. Thanks... -- Ed softsolder.com
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC for DIY 3D Printing
On 12 January 2013 02:25, Ed Nisley ed.08.nis...@pobox.com wrote: I think a HAL-based extruder model that could include second- and third-order effects should provide better control than a simple linear/angular axis The laser rastering work might be relevant, that requires a constant photon density in much the same way as FDM requires a constant material density. The example on the Wiki (G-raster?) is really very clever. Much cleverer than it would have needed to be if inserted at a more sensible layer. Similarly, ladder logic offers interesting possibilities for an extruder tool changer. Don't discount HAL and custom comps in this area. The 7i76 has enough robust digital outputs to drive SSRs for heaters and whatnot, with HAL components closing the temperature loops. I keep trying to persuade Pete to make an SSR / thermocouple module. It's possible that one is on the way. It seems to me like a really useful 7i76 smart-serail plug-in board. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC for DIY 3D Printing
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 1/11/2013 8:25 PM, Ed Nisley wrote: What I need... Guidance around my blind spots! F'r instance, I'm sure I've missed a hardware gotcha. Are there more practical ways to drive five stepper axes, get a bunch of digital I/O, and read thermocouples? Although I'm generally a big fan of lashing up surplus parts in my shop, I want to do this with reasonably standard hardware, so as to simplify building the next one. It's coming out of my pocket, however: the sky is *not* the budgetary limit. I believe Mesa has some analog input cards that are supported by the hostmot2 driver, if not it probably wouldn't be too hard to add support. As you mentioned, the Arduino is one way to get some cheap I/O, and there are examples of integrating this with HAL already: http://axis.unpy.net/01198594294 Tooting my own horn, a couple other ways to do this include: Directly interface an I2C ADC to a couple pins on the parallel port and talk I2C via a custom HAL module. I have done this and used the result to connect LinuxCNC via a parallel port to a standard RAMPS board. It worked well enough to print reasonably well, and would work a lot better with a more sophisticated thermal control algorithm (I was using a bang-bang thermostat, it wouldn't be too hard to work up a PID control with feed-forward coming from the extrusion rate). Details and code are in my github repo: https://github.com/cdsteinkuehler/LinuxCNC-RepRap ...and what I personally am working on for the 'future' of LinuxCNC control of 3D printers: Interface the BeagleBone to a 3D printer, running LinuxCNC on the ARM core, and using the 'Bone's integrated hardware (ADC, PWM, and high-speed PRU co-processors) to handle the low-level control. I'm currently working on this along with several others (see the developer list for LinuxCNC on ARM goodness), using the BeBoPr shield for the BeagleBone as a starting point for the hardware: http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=BeBoPr_Cape I'll surely have a bunch more questions as I make progress over the next few months (the M2 will likely take several months to arrive), but I'd appreciate any advice in the interim. I design hardware for a living, and am *VERY* interested in seeing LinuxCNC controlling a 3D printer *WELL*, so holler if you have any questions. I am currently working on the hardware end of things, but there is a lot in the interface, control, and HAL configuration that could be done to help things along. The nice thing about LinuxCNC is if you can get a good solid working configuration on one platform (parallel port + Arduino, Mesa cards, BeagleBone or whatever), it should be pretty straight-forward to port to alternate hardware. - -- Charles Steinkuehler char...@steinkuehler.net -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlDw4yAACgkQLywbqEHdNFyVdwCeMtSuACDkkcIU4RmDnrfph7lM XJwAoIVvefdydJOKb5PDrgDRp3qBCiRE =bvk2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC for DIY 3D Printing
On Friday 11 January 2013 22:48:24 Ed Nisley did opine: Message additions Copyright Friday 11 January 2013 by Gene Heskett TL;DR summary: advice needed on a LinuxCNC-based 3D printer project. The background... About a year ago, high-end DIY 3D printers outstripped the capabilities of Arduino-based controllers: the gymnastics required to stuff acceleration control into 8 bit microcontrollers appears to be a dead end. There's a notion of re-re-writing the Arduino firmware in 32 bit style for [ARM | Beagle | RPi | whatever] running on another generation of custom microcontroller boards. Rather than waiting for more of the same, I want to explore what LinuxCNC can enable for an advanced (albeit Cartesian) DIY 3D printer, starting with a solid motion-control foundation plus all the other features LinuxCNC provides, the ones that would require serious firmware development for Arduino-based code. For example... Hard real time motion control, rather than interrupt-based motor handlers that go awry when userland code inadvertently disables interrupts to bit-bang an I2C peripheral. Userland scripting, extensible language features, a G-Code dialect with loops / branching / subroutines, stuff like that. Probing the build platform to correct for for height variation and misalignment: probekins. I think a HAL-based extruder model that could include second- and third-order effects should provide better control than a simple linear/angular axis, particularly for a printer with multiple extruders. The plasma torch controller modules seem like good starting points. Similarly, ladder logic offers interesting possibilities for an extruder tool changer. LinuxCNC offers a *much* better UI, with devices that aren't teleported from 1990. I want to get a Touchy interface running early, just to show it off, plus the usual gamepad jogging and suchlike. Network-aware capabilities right out of the box, a real operating system, and enough compute power storage to make everything work. Plus all the topics I can barely pronounce when you folks discuss using them on your industrial machinery. The hardware plan... I'll start with a stock Makergear M2, which seems to be the most solid and well-designed DIY printer currently available. I'd prefer an enclosure to stabilize the ambient temperature, but that's basically a big box. Once the stock M2 works well enough, replace its RAMBo controller with Mesa 5i25 + 7i76. The 7i76 has enough robust digital outputs to drive SSRs for heaters and whatnot, with HAL components closing the temperature loops. The thermal time constants seem long enough to not require high-frequency PWM proportional control, which should simplify things. It also has sufficient digital inputs for home switches, probe contacts, and stuff like that. However, the printer controller also needs multi-channel thermocouple inputs, because thermistors seem underqualified for long-term measurements at 200+ C. I'd like to use a Mesa 7i87 for analog input, but it appears unsupported by the HostMot2 driver: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Mesa_Cards An alternative might be some Arduino love with this shield, although four channels seems limiting: http://www.mlgp-llc.com/arduino/public/arduino-pcb.html The Mesa 7i32 stepper driver board doesn't connect to the 5i25 at all. I don't know whether a Gecko G540 4 channel board (which is one axis shy of what I want) would make more sense than a quintet of M542H boards hot from the usual eBay vendor, but, for sure, blowing a single-channel board would be much less painful than taking out the Gecko. I currently have a 6 pack of the $50 2M542's in my stuff Ed, 4 running on a measly 28 volts on the mill, and two running on a hair under 40 on the lathe, one of them (Z) wide open for current because its 8 wire, wired parallel. Zero problems in a year + so far. The 28 volt rig is 4 of them in a sealed box with a big fan to distribute the heat to the boxes 1/8 and 1/4 skin panels, and another fan blowing across the top of the box, which I forgot to plug in for a couple days last summer. It got to about 115F without the external fan. That one I wanted to be tight against any flying swarf. Configuring can be fun because it scales either on powers of 2, but can also do decimal, as much as 25x microstepping. Very quiet that way, but my atom boards couldn't get it to anywhere near a decent speed, so its back to about 8x microstepping now. The motors are all double and triple stack nema 23's. Although I have some of those tiny Pololu drivers, I think they're underqualified for this job. I'd love to be proven wrong. I think you are correct, I looked at a board at the shack, but do not have any motors that small. The single stack nema 17's I have could not be driven to full torque by the Pololu. The goal is to produce a 3D printer with a contemporary control system
[Emc-users] Linuxcnc on the Olinuxino
Hi all, This is really a response to the LinuxCNC for DIY 3D Printing thread without hijacking that thread. After seeing the success of a few other people in getting lcnc running on an Arm / Beaglebone, I thought I would take a shot at doing the same on the Olinuxino, with the intent of driving a 3D printer. I found the Olinuxino attractive because it has 512MB RAM and a 1Ghz processor and 3 I2C interfaces, as well as a companion 7 LCD or LCD touch display. It does not have an immediate interface to get to a Mesa type FPGA device, but I was hoping with a 1Ghz processor I would at least be able to directly drive 3 stepper motors. The board in fact just arrived today. Android built into the onboard NAND booted first time. While waiting for the board to arrive, I also built a custom kernel and a debian image and loaded that to a 4GB SD card. That, unfortunately was an abject failure. It would not boot, and worse, gave no error message. I just got a black screen. I am going to try a prebuilt stock debian image tomorrow. I did start a blog to document my progress here: http://lcncolinuxino.blogspot.com/ I will certainly have many questions (probably better posted to the developer list) as I get further along, but this seemed to be an appropriate time mention what I was up to. Regards, Eric -- Master Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL, ASP.NET, C# 2012, HTML5, CSS, MVC, Windows 8 Apps, JavaScript and much more. Keep your skills current with LearnDevNow - 3,200 step-by-step video tutorials by Microsoft MVPs and experts. SALE $99.99 this month only -- learn more at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/learnmore_122912 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
