Re: [Emc-users] [was] Anybody know where to find a pdf on the HOYMK SSR40DA SSR?

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 20 December 2015 16:42:48 John Kasunich wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015, at 03:45 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 20 December 2015 04:27:39 Gene Heskett wrote:
> >
> > [... back to readable size, on my charge-pump detection to run the
> > SSR's]
> >
> > > Has anyone else concocted such a circuit, and were you able to get
> > > enough pump power out of it running the BoB on 5 volts, with the
> > > pump at 500 hz, to run an SSR without resorting to an external
> > > current booster?
> >
> > Now I am both bumfuzzled and confused. There really ought to be a
> > formula for calculating the size of the capacitors needed, but there
> > is absolutely zip in ITT #5, nor in the hambook of about the same
> > vintage.
> >
> > So, I guess its build it, and test it by the old fashioned cuss &
> > cry method. Seems to me there really ought to be, in the year 2015,
> > a plug in the blanks formula for that.  Sigh...
>
> My gut feeling is that you won't be able to do it.
>
> First, lets make sure we are talking about the same circuit.  A google
> image search found this schematic of a charge pump, which is the
> circuit I normally use.
> http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Theory/diode_pump/Image152.jpg
> (refer to the circuit on the left)

Yes, thats the one John K., except the circuit ground is the + terminal, 
and the diode and cap pols reversed.  The idea is to make the 1st cap's 
available charge so low at powerup, that there will not be a 1 or 2 
cycle on time at powerup.

>
> Assume that the input is swinging from 0.0 to 5.0 volts.  Also assume
> that the loading is negligible.  When the input is low, the voltage on
> the left side of Cp is 0.0, and the right side is -0.7V due to the
> drop in D1.  When the input goes high, the left side of Cp is 5.0V,
> and the right side is 4.3V, assuming zero change in the voltage across
> Cp.  Because of the drop across D2, the output is 4.3-0.7 = 3.6V. 
> Pretty marginal.  And that is with zero load, and an output that
> swings a full 5V.  No real output will swing all the way down to 0.0
> or up to 5.0V, so you lose another couple tenths of a volt.

Unless cmos drivers are used, true.

> The above assumes that there is NO CHANGE in the voltage across Cp.
> That means no current flows into or out of Cp, and the circuit
> delivers no output current (I said "assume loading is negligable").
>
> To deliver any load current, the voltage across Cp has to change, and
> that will further drop the output voltage.  Say you need a load
> current of 10mA. That is 10 milli-coulombs per second.  If the input
> frequency is 500Hz, then each cycle needs to deliver 0.010/500 = 20
> micro-coulombs.  If you need an output voltage of 3V, and the ideal
> no-load output is 3.6V, then the voltage across Cp can only be allowed
> to drop 0.6V when 20 micro-coulombs of charge is extracted from it.  C
> = Q/V = 0.20 / 0.6 = 33uF.  That is a HUGE pump cap, and will
> badly load down whatever is driving it.

That is the reasoning behind what I was trying to do, but all my 
reference books are apparently too prehistoric to know about coulombs.

> When I make a charge pump, I usually think of something like Cr =
> 0.1uF, and Cp = 0.01uF.  Charge per cycle at 0.6V droop is 0.006
> micro-coulombs, and I run it at 10kHz instead of 500Hz, for a total
> load current of 60 micro- amps.  Put a 100K load resistor as a load
> and drive the gate of a logic level MOSFET and it works fine.  But
> getting milli-amp currents out of a low-powered charge pump is much
> much harder.

The mosfet isn't a problem, nor would a small sig npn transistor, but 
power for it is.  Not because its needed, but because of the external 
powers on-off transients feeding in and causing a few cycles of "on" 
before the rest of the circuit is ready.

That will obviously defeat the purpose unless that external supply is 
itself fully floating. I do have a smallish 12.6.ct.12.6 tranny, good 
for 200 mills or so, that I can make that psu with, and be completely 
isolated from a ground reference except for the capacitance in Cp, and 
of course the leakage capacitance in the transformer.  But theres no 
base thread, so I'm stuck at 500 hertz.

This almost sounds like a good place for a cmos 7556 if I can figure out 
how to disable it until the psu is up and stable.

I am home from the woofs cataract surgery, which I was up well before 
breakfast to attend to, so I'll be later this afternoon before I am able 
to play. Right now I feel a catchup nap coming on. :)

Thanks for confirming my worries.

> John Kasunich
>
>
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Some 

Re: [Emc-users] [was] Anybody know where to find a pdf on the HOYMK SSR40DA SSR?

[John Kasunich]

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015, at 01:17 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

> The mosfet isn't a problem, nor would a small sig npn transistor, but 
> power for it is.  Not because its needed, but because of the external 
> powers on-off transients feeding in and causing a few cycles of "on" 
> before the rest of the circuit is ready.
> 
> That will obviously defeat the purpose unless that external supply is 
> itself fully floating. I do have a smallish 12.6.ct.12.6 tranny, good 
> for 200 mills or so, that I can make that psu with, and be completely 
> isolated from a ground reference except for the capacitance in Cp, and 
> of course the leakage capacitance in the transformer.  But theres no 
> base thread, so I'm stuck at 500 hertz.

It seems to me that the FET source needs to be common to the signal
and the load power.

Regarding the initial "power up" glitch, that shouldn't happen.  The
reservoir cap (Cr) needs to be much bigger than the pump cap (Cp).
I consider 10:1 as a minimum, 50:1 or even 100:1 can be used if 
needed.  A rough approximation is that if Cr is 50 times Cp, it will 
take at least 50 pulses to charge it up.  That should pretty much 
eliminate any mis-behavior at startup.

-- 
  John Kasunich
  jmkasun...@fastmail.fm

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Re: [Emc-users] [was] Anybody know where to find a pdf on the HOYMK SSR40DA SSR?

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 21 December 2015 13:43:23 John Kasunich wrote:

> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015, at 01:17 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > The mosfet isn't a problem, nor would a small sig npn transistor,
> > but power for it is.  Not because its needed, but because of the
> > external powers on-off transients feeding in and causing a few
> > cycles of "on" before the rest of the circuit is ready.
> >
> > That will obviously defeat the purpose unless that external supply
> > is itself fully floating. I do have a smallish 12.6.ct.12.6 tranny,
> > good for 200 mills or so, that I can make that psu with, and be
> > completely isolated from a ground reference except for the
> > capacitance in Cp, and of course the leakage capacitance in the
> > transformer.  But theres no base thread, so I'm stuck at 500 hertz.
>
> It seems to me that the FET source needs to be common to the signal
> and the load power.
>
Absolutely.  It could even be a std 2n for that matter, and the 
shutdown lag wouldn't be quite as great as with the fet.  OTOH, that 
would all depend on the needed initial bias to make the fet conduct too.

But in the context of discussing the micro-coulombs per pulse pumped by 
Cp, should we not discount it somewhat because of the limiting source 
resistance the BoB's output stage represents?  Or are we assuming a Cp 
small enough that at 1 millisecond at each voltage level, t=rc is 
essentially infinite and Cp is fully charged to whatever differential 
voltage is available?

Also, and I am not sure I have two of them, and I know I don't have 4 for 
both circuits, so I expect I should order a small bag of schotkey 
diodes, which would raise the potential output voltage by approximately 
an additional volt.

> Regarding the initial "power up" glitch, that shouldn't happen.  The
> reservoir cap (Cr) needs to be much bigger than the pump cap (Cp).
> I consider 10:1 as a minimum, 50:1 or even 100:1 can be used if
> needed.  A rough approximation is that if Cr is 50 times Cp, it will
> take at least 50 pulses to charge it up.  That should pretty much
> eliminate any mis-behavior at startup.

I don't believe the junk box network I put together for the vacuum is 
more than 3 or 4/1.  Its driving a junk box to-220 of some sort, which 
is in turn pulling the 24 volt coil of a DPDT P octal plugin relay, 
whose contacts are paralleled in deference to the 6.5 amps running (at 
normal air flow, my lashup could even be higher because nearly all the 
plumbing but the radiator hose is nice smooth interior 1.5" PVC, and 
that 6.5 is probably measured with the 1.125" corrugated hose normally 
used. That stuff, while handy as a vac hose, is very high internal 
turbulance & a good flow restriction)

My "nap" lasted about 4.5 hours! I must have really been behind.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Some mill pix are at:
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Grounding Issues

[MC Cason]

   Those carbon fiber sections must have a conductive layer added, for 
lightning protection.  The Dreamliner uses a combination of wire meshes, 
and metal foils for grounding it's carbon fiber sections.



On 12/20/2015 08:50 PM, R.L. Wurdack wrote:
> Some of them tubes are Carbon fiber composite these days. Makes grounding
> more fun.
>> Don't get too carried away with Earth as the most important part of
>> grounding.  After all those big metal tubes that fly through the sky
>> aren't
>> connected to ground and they have all sorts of power systems from DC to AC
>> (if you can afford business class).
>




-- 
MC Cason
Eagle3D - Created by Matthias Weißer
github.com/mcason/Eagle3D



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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Anyone have a small piece of 15/64" drill rod?

[andy pugh]

On 21 December 2015 at 10:11, Sarah Armstrong
 wrote:
> m-machine-metals.co.uk

After fossicking about in their web site, it turns out that they have
a horizontal boring machine, just like the one my dad has.

(Kearns S-type with the facing chuck)

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Grounding Issues

[Bertho Stultiens]

On 12/21/2015 02:48 PM, andy pugh wrote:
>> Where did you get the filter from?
> search eBay for "Rasmi filter" and find one with the right number of
> phases and current rating for your system.
> 
> The suggestion from Bertho sounded to be worth a try too.

Yes, to expand slightly with all the filters being installed...

You must ensure that all mains power input is in phase when it goes
through separate filters (see below). Mains filters use T and Pi
constructs where a (capacitively coupled) common goes to earth.

If the filters are not connected with the phase-polarity in mind, then
you will have an earth point that will conduct current, due to the
phase-shift between the filters.

The same happens when you use transformers. The capacitive coupling in
your system may induce (large) currents if the power lines are not
entirely in phase.


The classic example is the computer with a printer. Touching the
computer and the printer-cable (when they are not connected) can have a
differential between them, and you get zapped. This happens when the
devices are not on the common earth. However, connecting the earth will
mean that there is an induced current in the earth between the devices,
which still may wreak havoc.

The "wisdom" people said in that case was: "put the plug in reversed".
That simple swapping of phase and neutral often solves this particular
common-mode problem because it will put both devices in phase.


Now, using multiple mains-filters can be a huge problem because the
common point (earth) of these filters may still be off due to load
imbalances (cos(phi) differences) and therefore carry current.

The best way to handle mains noise is to use one mains-filter, which
must be rated for the total load. Internal wiring and loads should be
carefully planned to prevent local phase-imbalances. Most local noise
sources are (relatively) high-frequency and are dampened with shielding
and ferrites on the wires.

-- 
Greetings Bertho

(disclaimers are disclaimed)

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Anyone have a small piece of 15/64" drill rod?

[Rick Lair]

Gregg,

Mcmaster Carr has some that are 3 7/8" long, High-Speed M2 Tool Steel, 
http://www.mcmaster.com/#3009a182/=10c3bni, but for a dollar or so more 
you you can get a piece of O-1 36" long.

Rick



On 12/21/2015 7:39 AM, Dale Ertley wrote:
> Try McmasterCarr.com
>
>  On Monday, December 21, 2015 5:58 AM, Sarah Armstrong 
>  wrote:
>   
>
>   theirs one thing Andy , if you called , you'd never leave ! LOL
> theirs always a cuppa on hand too
>
> dont take any notice of the stock list , it's always wrong , theirs More !!
> (arh !  yes the borer the reminants of having to work with Steam !! ) and
> still do .
>
>
>
>
> On 21 December 2015 at 10:47, andy pugh  wrote:
>
>> On 21 December 2015 at 10:11, Sarah Armstrong
>>  wrote:
>>> m-machine-metals.co.uk
>> After fossicking about in their web site, it turns out that they have
>> a horizontal boring machine, just like the one my dad has.
>>
>> (Kearns S-type with the facing chuck)
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
>> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>>
>>
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>>
>
>

-- 

Thanks


Rick Lair
Superior Roll & Turning LLC
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
PH: 734-279-1831
FAX: 734-279-1166
www.superiorroll.com


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Re: [Emc-users] Grounding Issues

[andy pugh]

On 21 December 2015 at 13:15, John Thornton  wrote:

> Where did you get the filter from?

search eBay for "Rasmi filter" and find one with the right number of
phases and current rating for your system.

The suggestion from Bertho sounded to be worth a try too.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Grounding Issues

[andy pugh]

On 21 December 2015 at 14:26, Bertho Stultiens  wrote:
>
> The "wisdom" people said in that case was: "put the plug in reversed".

Not possible with the infinitely superior[1] BS 1363 plugs and sockets.

[1] Apart from being very large, very ugly, and really bad to stand on
in bare feet.

-- 
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http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] Grounding Issues

[Bertho Stultiens]

On 12/21/2015 03:34 PM, andy pugh wrote:
>> The "wisdom" people said in that case was: "put the plug in reversed".
> Not possible with the infinitely superior[1] BS 1363 plugs and sockets.

Agreed.

However, how many people have been able to connect the wires wrong? (not
counting the sealed cables)


> [1] Apart from being very large, very ugly, and really bad to stand on
> in bare feet.

Well, large, yes; ugly, yes; but bare feet?

I guess that working in the shop is a no-go on bare feet...

Then again, I'd prefer to use something more sturdy like
http://dk.rs-online.com/largeimages/R7249088-01.jpg which I actually may
stand on with bare feet without being afraid ;-)

-- 
Greetings Bertho

(disclaimers are disclaimed)

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Re: [Emc-users] is anyone here buyingbfrom aliexpress?

[Marius Alksnys]

12/22/2015 05:51 AM, Gene Heskett rašė:

Their help popup says letters,numbers, and symbols, but a letters &
numbers including mixed-case, is an invalid pw. I tried plugging a & and
an @ but that didn't make it happy either, and theres no place to ask
for help in that regard. So I've not a clue what they expect in english.

Ideas?


Now I tried to register, wrote some simple password including letters ad 
numbers and it says it is ok. See attached gif
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Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 7i77 encoder max count rate

[Marius Alksnys]

Yes, filter was the first thing I tried. And it does not change max 
count rate at this setup. I tried to play with muxed-count-rate, but 
could not raise it more than 1666. When I tried some bigger number - 
the system just hang =|

I could not find how to change the skew while I found this mentioned in 
forums. I am using standard Mesa cable, but can make shorter one, about 
400mm length.

12/22/2015 05:41 AM, Peter C. Wallace rašė:
...
> Did you try turning off the encoder filter bit?
>
> The limitation is because the 7I77 encoders are muxed. You can push up the mux
> rate with rev 4 encoders because they allow adjusting the multiplexing skew
> (from cable delays and switching times)


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Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 7i77 encoder max count rate

[Marius Alksnys]

12/22/2015 06:15 AM, Peter C. Wallace rašė:
...
> changing the mux rate should not be able make the system hang (though if
> too fast it may scramble all the encoder counts vaues)
I think I tried 4000 when it hung. I can try again.

> If the filter-rate setting does not change the maximum count rate,
> the count rate limitation is not the 7I77 but something external
> (possible the converter or the interface)

I doubt this is the converter problem, because it is in original spindle 
drive, which should work up to 10 kRPM.

But I will check it with scope.

> The skew setting HAL pin is only exposed with version 4 encoder counters

What is this?


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[Emc-users] is anyone here buyingbfrom aliexpress?

[Gene Heskett]

I ask,because I just tried, and cannot get past the password registration 
page.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Some mill pix are at:
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] Mesa 7i77 encoder max count rate

[Marius Alksnys]

In my current linuxcnc, 5i25 and 7i77 setup I get 1MHz maximum encoder 
count rate. Is it possible to increase it?

I want to run a spindle up to 10k RPM with resolver. There is a resolver 
to quadrature converter, giving 16384 counts per revolution. That's 
5.461 MHz.

Encoder velocity output goes crazy above 4000 RPM roughly. That's about 
1 M counts / s.

It might be not possible for Mesa 7i77 while using 4 channels. I will 
try to reduce output scale of the converter, but would like to get more 
from 7i77. Can't find how.

Another approach would be to look at the index pulse width and if it is 
wide enough, count it with another encoder channel in count mode and 
make custom HAL component to switch between feedback devices. I need 
accuracy for slow moves and spindle orientation and velocity at higher 
speeds.

Using probably the latest firmware for Mesa cards and updated LinuxCNC 2.7.


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Re: [Emc-users] is anyone here buyingbfrom aliexpress?

[Marius Alksnys]

Yes, I am buying from aliexpress sometimes. It's ok.

12/22/2015 04:01 AM, Gene Heskett rašė:
> I ask,because I just tried, and cannot get past the password registration
> page.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>


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Re: [Emc-users] is anyone here buyingbfrom aliexpress?

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 21 December 2015 22:34:34 Marius Alksnys wrote:

> Yes, I am buying from aliexpress sometimes. It's ok.
>
> 12/22/2015 04:01 AM, Gene Heskett rašė:
> > I ask,because I just tried, and cannot get past the password
> > registration page.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
Their help popup says letters,numbers, and symbols, but a letters & 
numbers including mixed-case, is an invalid pw. I tried plugging a & and 
an @ but that didn't make it happy either, and theres no place to ask 
for help in that regard. So I've not a clue what they expect in english.

Ideas?

Thanks Marius.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Some mill pix are at:
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Anyone have a small piece of 15/64" drill rod?

[Sarah Armstrong]

m-machine-metals.co.uk
will have it ,
we all ways take silver steel as Drill rod here in the UK .

and probably has the largest collection of silversteel in 64's in the uk

they can supply anything from plastics to ferrous , and 9 times out of 10
will have it in stock or
will order it for you if not , and quantity is not a problem if you want 4"
then thats what you'll get

ok thats a plug for Dorreen , so what LOL
any probs let me know .







On 21 December 2015 at 10:00, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 20 December 2015 at 23:19, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
> > I need a small chunk of 15/64" drill rod, about 4 to 6" long. Nobody
> > within 100 miles stocks drill rod, or not in "oddball" 64th sizes
>
> Have you found any anywhere? I always assume that "Drill rod" is the
> same thing as "silver steel", but that only comes in whole mm or n/32"
> sizes.
> https://www.cromwell.co.uk/publication_page_pdfs/2245/804.pdf
>
> Maybe a job for a lathe?
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Anyone have a small piece of 15/64" drill rod?

[Sarah Armstrong]

theirs one thing Andy , if you called , you'd never leave ! LOL
theirs always a cuppa on hand too

dont take any notice of the stock list , it's always wrong , theirs More !!
(arh !  yes the borer the reminants of having to work with Steam !! ) and
still do .




On 21 December 2015 at 10:47, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 21 December 2015 at 10:11, Sarah Armstrong
>  wrote:
> > m-machine-metals.co.uk
>
> After fossicking about in their web site, it turns out that they have
> a horizontal boring machine, just like the one my dad has.
>
> (Kearns S-type with the facing chuck)
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
> --
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>



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Re: [Emc-users] Grounding Issues

[John Thornton]

After sleeping on this for a bit my question is if I change the 220v to 
two hots and a neutral then string a ground wire across the floor (for 
testing) and wire the left cabinet to split out one phase and a neutral 
to run the 120v part do you think this would be worth the effort to try 
out? I'd rather try an experiment like that prior to trying to walk 
across my attic to string a ground to the 220v outlet. I have 12" of 
insulation  on top of 3.5" so walking is very difficult... actually 
finding a place to step is rather fun.

JT

On 12/20/2015 11:55 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 12/20/2015 05:06 PM, John Thornton wrote:
>> Well it works fine till I plug in the VFD so I guess I'll have to rewire
>> the machine and my shop again :(
>>
>>
> Well, that is now very important information!  Just plugging
> in the VFD, without having it start the spindle motor causes
> the problem? Then you are probably right.  If you only had
> problems when the spindle was running, then the line
> reactors might help.
>
> I put a commercial line filter box on the VFD on my mill, I
> was having interference in a couple units, but only when the
> VFD was running the spindle.  The filter fixed it.
>
> Jon
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Grounding Issues

[John Thornton]

By robust, what do you mean?

JT

On 12/20/2015 6:44 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> John,
> I'd still take a close look at your existing system to see if it is robust.
>
>


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Anyone have a small piece of 15/64" drill rod?

[andy pugh]

On 20 December 2015 at 23:19, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
> I need a small chunk of 15/64" drill rod, about 4 to 6" long. Nobody
> within 100 miles stocks drill rod, or not in "oddball" 64th sizes

Have you found any anywhere? I always assume that "Drill rod" is the
same thing as "silver steel", but that only comes in whole mm or n/32"
sizes.
https://www.cromwell.co.uk/publication_page_pdfs/2245/804.pdf

Maybe a job for a lathe?

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Re: [Emc-users] is anyone here buyingbfrom aliexpress?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 22 December 2015 00:35:47 Marius Alksnys wrote:

> 12/22/2015 05:51 AM, Gene Heskett rašė:
> > Their help popup says letters,numbers, and symbols, but a letters &
> > numbers including mixed-case, is an invalid pw. I tried plugging a &
> > and an @ but that didn't make it happy either, and theres no place
> > to ask for help in that regard. So I've not a clue what they expect
> > in english.
> >
> > Ideas?
>
> Now I tried to register, wrote some simple password including letters
> ad numbers and it says it is ok. See attached gif

Thats the same popup I get for a right click, but it never goes past 
that. Either with chromium or iceweasel.

So I just went back and added a similar 3 items to the cart again, but 
then when I clicked on view cart to proceed, it popped up an Opps with a 
box that should have had a captcha in it, but the captcha image now 
cannot be viewed by the latest iceweasel v38-5 from our repo's. So 
obviously I can't get past that.

firefox/iceweasel, as emasculated by debian, is falling apart, and this 
is the last straw, I am about to install the real firefox.

As they say on the radio, stay tuned. I just fired off a nastygram to 
ad...@aliexpress.com to see what effect, if any, results.

Thanks Marius.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Some mill pix are at:
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 7i77 encoder max count rate

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015, Marius Alksnys wrote:

> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 05:06:43 +0200
> From: Marius Alksnys 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] Mesa 7i77 encoder max count rate
> 
> In my current linuxcnc, 5i25 and 7i77 setup I get 1MHz maximum encoder
> count rate. Is it possible to increase it?
>
> I want to run a spindle up to 10k RPM with resolver. There is a resolver
> to quadrature converter, giving 16384 counts per revolution. That's
> 5.461 MHz.
>
> Encoder velocity output goes crazy above 4000 RPM roughly. That's about
> 1 M counts / s.
>
> It might be not possible for Mesa 7i77 while using 4 channels. I will
> try to reduce output scale of the converter, but would like to get more
> from 7i77. Can't find how.
>
> Another approach would be to look at the index pulse width and if it is
> wide enough, count it with another encoder channel in count mode and
> make custom HAL component to switch between feedback devices. I need
> accuracy for slow moves and spindle orientation and velocity at higher
> speeds.
>
> Using probably the latest firmware for Mesa cards and updated LinuxCNC 2.7.
>

Did you try turning off the encoder filter bit?

The limitation is because the 7I77 encoders are muxed. You can push up the mux 
rate with rev 4 encoders because they allow adjusting the multiplexing skew
(from cable delays and switching times)


>
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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 7i77 encoder max count rate

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Tue, 22 Dec 2015, Marius Alksnys wrote:


Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 06:01:24 +0200
From: Marius Alksnys 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 7i77 encoder max count rate

Yes, filter was the first thing I tried. And it does not change max 
count rate at this setup. I tried to play with muxed-count-rate, but 
could not raise it more than 1666. When I tried some bigger number - 
the system just hang =|



changing the mux rate should not be able make the system hang (though if too 
fast it may scramble all the encoder counts vaues)


If the filter-rate setting does not change the maximum count rate,
the count rate limitation is not the 7I77 but something external
(possible the converter or the interface)


I could not find how to change the skew while I found this mentioned in 
forums. I am using standard Mesa cable, but can make shorter one, about 
400mm length.



The skew setting HAL pin is only exposed with version 4 encoder counters


12/22/2015 05:41 AM, Peter C. Wallace ra:
...

Did you try turning off the encoder filter bit?

The limitation is because the 7I77 encoders are muxed. You can push up the mux
rate with rev 4 encoders because they allow adjusting the multiplexing skew
(from cable delays and switching times)



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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Anyone have a small piece of 15/64" drill rod?

[Dale Ertley]

Try McmasterCarr.com 

On Monday, December 21, 2015 5:58 AM, Sarah Armstrong 
 wrote:
 

 theirs one thing Andy , if you called , you'd never leave ! LOL
theirs always a cuppa on hand too

dont take any notice of the stock list , it's always wrong , theirs More !!
(arh !  yes the borer the reminants of having to work with Steam !! ) and
still do .




On 21 December 2015 at 10:47, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 21 December 2015 at 10:11, Sarah Armstrong
>  wrote:
> > m-machine-metals.co.uk
>
> After fossicking about in their web site, it turns out that they have
> a horizontal boring machine, just like the one my dad has.
>
> (Kearns S-type with the facing chuck)
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Grounding Issues

[John Thornton]

Kirk,

Where did you get the filter from?

JT

On 12/20/2015 11:44 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> On 12/20/2015 05:20 AM, John Thornton wrote:
>> I have a BP knee mill with an Anilam 1100M CNC kit on it. I've removed
>> all the Anilam controls a while back. I've retained the drives and power
>> supply and added a GS2 VFD for the spindle. I have a 5i25 7i77 setup.
>>From the get go I've had problems with the electronics on this machine.
> I have had good results (noise on encoder lines) by adding mains filters
> to my VFD power inputs.
>
> The shiny box here:
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/00024-1a.jpg
>
> I suspect any switching power circuit might benefit from installing an
> input filter.
>


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Re: [Emc-users] Grounding Issues

[John Thornton]

Another update, Automation Direct has an EMI input filter designed for 
that drive that mounts under it so that is on order as well as a ferrite 
bracelet... Peter said it was a bracelet not a bead. At least knowing 
it's the VFD and not an unknown issue is a big relief for me. In any 
case I have a well grounded machine now :)

JT

On 12/20/2015 7:20 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> I have a BP knee mill with an Anilam 1100M CNC kit on it. I've removed
> all the Anilam controls a while back. I've retained the drives and power
> supply and added a GS2 VFD for the spindle. I have a 5i25 7i77 setup.
>   From the get go I've had problems with the electronics on this machine.
> The VFD is controlled by modbus via the gs2 component. The VFD gets
> reset to default parameters all the time from noise on the modbus. the
> 5i25 get sserial errors. The sserial errors are so bad now it won't even
> move an axis. The spindle works ok. The power supply is a simple bridge
> rectifier with a huge blue cap and a large power resistor across the cap.
>
> Peter keeps telling me it's a grounding issue so where do I start
> looking and what do I need to do?
>
> Thanks
> JT
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Grounding Issues

[John Dammeyer]

The addition of the VFD might just put an system that is on the edge of
being unstable over the edge.
John Dammeyer


> -Original Message-
> From: John Thornton [mailto:j...@gnipsel.com]
> Sent: December-21-15 3:15 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Grounding Issues
> 
> 
> By robust, what do you mean?
> 
> JT
> 
> On 12/20/2015 6:44 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > John,
> > I'd still take a close look at your existing system to see if it is
robust.
> >
> >
> 
> 
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Grounding Issues

[andy pugh]

On 21 December 2015 at 14:49, Bertho Stultiens  wrote:

[BS1363 Plugs]
>> [1] Apart from being very large, very ugly, and really bad to stand on
>> in bare feet.
>
> Well, large, yes; ugly, yes; but bare feet?

They seem well designed  lie on the ground with the pins poking upwards.
This tends to mainly cause problems in bedrooms with hairdriers.

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Re: [Emc-users] Grounding Issues

[John Thornton]

The VFD has been on that machine since the original conversion from 
Anilam to LinuxCNC. Hm2 has reported errors from time to time all along 
but never quit. Upgrading to 2.7 was the reason it now won't run when 
the VFD is plugged in due to a change in 2.7 that's a bit over reactive 
at this time. If I can get it to run even with the overly sensitive 
software then I'm good. I upgraded to 2.7 to use my new probe with an 
encoder input.

JT

On 12/21/2015 10:54 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> The addition of the VFD might just put an system that is on the edge of
> being unstable over the edge.
> John Dammeyer
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: John Thornton [mailto:j...@gnipsel.com]
>> Sent: December-21-15 3:15 AM
>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Grounding Issues
>>
>>
>> By robust, what do you mean?
>>
>> JT
>>
>> On 12/20/2015 6:44 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>>> John,
>>> I'd still take a close look at your existing system to see if it is
> robust.
>>>
>>
>>
> 
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