Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Danny Miller]

I don't know why you'd want to use that when the 7i92 is available.  
You're using a parallel port or serial, which has significant bandwidth 
and latency issues compared to ethernet. 7i92's only $30 more so I doubt 
cost is a big factor here.


But, pretty sure it'll work with LinuxCNC.  For 7i92, you loadrt 
HOSTMOT2 which creates HAL pins for all the functions.  You do need to 
use a command-line tool "mesaflash" once to load the hardware bitfile 
image into the FPGA.  There are several bitfiles available, they 
dedicate specific pins to be stepgens, encoders, etc.  You can turn off 
specific functions and turn them into GPIO, but you can't take GPIO and 
assign a new stepgen to it, because that involves new FPGA code.

Danny


On 10/24/2016 12:18 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> Does the 7I90HD work with Linux CNC?   It looks like it could work
> It looks like it would be the board to use with an ARM Pi3.  It
> connects with the host using SPI which is easy to use in the Pi3
> 7I90HD is the lowest cost Mega FPGA board at only $59 so you could
> have the computer and Mesa card both for under $100 and the set of
> cards would fit in the palm of your hand.
>
> There is an Ethernet version of the FPGA card too but it is much more
> expensive and SPI might be even faster as there is far less overhead.
> SPI can't go very far, just a few inches but
>
> What about labor problems as the ports?  Spomthing like this would
> come in air freight. Almost all electronics
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 8:37 PM, Danny Miller  wrote:
>>
>> On 10/23/2016 4:28 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
 No biggie, on my CNC (not an SBC) I just added a wifi USB already.

 Mesa 7i92 are totally available from the mfg:

 http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=30
 2
>>> Not according to that web page 2 hours ago. Out of stock. But this link
>>> say 170 on the shelf? Left hand, please call right hand. :)  Either that
>>> or the boat finally docked, I understand they've got labor problems at
>>> some west side ports.


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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Chris Albertson]

Does the 7I90HD work with Linux CNC?   It looks like it could work
It looks like it would be the board to use with an ARM Pi3.  It
connects with the host using SPI which is easy to use in the Pi3
7I90HD is the lowest cost Mega FPGA board at only $59 so you could
have the computer and Mesa card both for under $100 and the set of
cards would fit in the palm of your hand.

There is an Ethernet version of the FPGA card too but it is much more
expensive and SPI might be even faster as there is far less overhead.
SPI can't go very far, just a few inches but

What about labor problems as the ports?  Spomthing like this would
come in air freight. Almost all electronics



On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 8:37 PM, Danny Miller  wrote:
>
>
> On 10/23/2016 4:28 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>
>>> No biggie, on my CNC (not an SBC) I just added a wifi USB already.
>>>
>>> Mesa 7i92 are totally available from the mfg:
>>>
>>> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=30
>>> 2
>> Not according to that web page 2 hours ago. Out of stock. But this link
>> say 170 on the shelf? Left hand, please call right hand. :)  Either that
>> or the boat finally docked, I understand they've got labor problems at
>> some west side ports.
>
-- 

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Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Danny Miller]

> Sounds like its the -H I'd want too. More conserving of horizontal real
> estate.  And while I'm not going to add yet another potential loose
> connection to the home switch setup, these bobs I have have such poor
> terminals that I will cobble up a distribution point for all the stuff
> that needs 5 volts. 2 bobs and 2 points on the opto so far as 5 volt
> loads. As for home/limits, these cheap bobs, intended for a Mach system,
> already have pullups so all they'll have to do is pull to ground with a
> microswitch.
>
> Thanks Danny, for calling that board to my attention.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
Some FYI-

Mesa cards use a 3.3v FPGA, but you can enable a bidirectional bus 
switch which can convert to "mostly" 5v IO, but it's not a true 5v.

Also ALL IO has pullup resistors on the Mesa, which only have an effect 
as inputs.  Outputs are not open-collector, they're driven, but a bus 
switch's driven "high" is less than the 5v Vdd.

This worked quite well for me.  The AM882H has 5v opto-isolated IO, with 
integral resistors (so it's gotta be 5v to generate specified opto drive 
current), and they didn't common the anode or cathode. The 
step/dir/enable I fed by tying the anodes to 5v and the cathodes to the 
Mesa IO pin because drive-low is definitely 0v but drive-high isn't 
quite 5v.

And the IO is just pulldown.  My board's got a  bunch of optoisolators 
and their outputs are just pulldowns against the Mesa inputs' built-in 
pullups- which is simple.

BTW, about "loose connectors"-  this ferrule stuff CHANGED MY LIFE on 
clamp-down-on-stranded-wire:

https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-AWG10-Insulated-Ferrule-Terminal/dp/B00UBUR6E2/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1477283614&sr=8-6&keywords=ferrule

https://www.amazon.com/Signstek-Adjusting-Ratcheting-Crimping-AWG23-10/dp/B00HPRYIL8/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1477283614&sr=8-5&keywords=ferrule&th=1

Seriously, it's amazing.  I learned not to trust stranded-on-clamps.  
Strands fray and short, they break, they work out strand-by-strand.  And 
having to rework it damages the wire. I've tinned stranded wire in the 
past, only to have it get loose later and wires fell out, and Googled 
this- most people say "never tin, it's too soft and gets loose and your 
wire falls out".  Oh. Kay.

This stuff is cheap and quick, it makes a 100% solid strain-relieved 
bond.  Phoenix connectors hold them easily and they never let go.

Use that 4-jaw tool, NOT the 6, if they're going in clamp connectors.  
Only 2 surfaces get used, so square maximizes the surface area that gets 
used.

I showed this stuff to my hacker buds and they were all "OMG where has 
this been all my life???"

Danny





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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? -->NML

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> Today I made first tests with pipe actually clamped in machine with
> Machinekit running on beaglebone for plasma pipe cutter I planned to
> develop.
> 
> I was able to do UI with machinetalk interface to reach for linuxcnc
> functionality that was needed.
> Machinetalk allows you to move UI on PC instead having it on linux server -
> part of 3d interface seen on video below.

I thought NML fulfilled same purpose?

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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 October 2016 23:37:47 Danny Miller wrote:

> On 10/23/2016 4:28 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> No biggie, on my CNC (not an SBC) I just added a wifi USB already.
> >>
> >> Mesa 7i92 are totally available from the mfg:
> >>
> >> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id
> >>=30 2
> >
> > Not according to that web page 2 hours ago. Out of stock. But this
> > link say 170 on the shelf? Left hand, please call right hand. :) 
> > Either that or the boat finally docked, I understand they've got
> > labor problems at some west side ports.
>
> The DB25 FEMALE (no suffix) version is out of stock.
> They have plenty of "H" (two 26pin locking DIL) and "M" (DB25 male).
>
> Personally I recommend the "H".  It's locking.  I'm not gonna use a
> remade round cable, the board's right there with the controller so I'd
> make up an IDC ribbon cable for that anyways.
>
> Me, I built a motherboard that provided power, broke out into
> individual DIL 10-pins for the AM882 drives, and broke out pins for
> homing switches etc.
>
> >> There are 3 versions which change the port on the end: male DB25,
> >> female DB25, male 26-pin DIL header.  But the one in the middle is
> >> always a male DIL26 header.
> >
> > And the 7i92M means its a male db25 on the end?
>
> Yep!
>
>  Gene Heskett
>
Sounds like its the -H I'd want too. More conserving of horizontal real 
estate.  And while I'm not going to add yet another potential loose 
connection to the home switch setup, these bobs I have have such poor 
terminals that I will cobble up a distribution point for all the stuff 
that needs 5 volts. 2 bobs and 2 points on the opto so far as 5 volt 
loads. As for home/limits, these cheap bobs, intended for a Mach system, 
already have pullups so all they'll have to do is pull to ground with a 
microswitch.

Thanks Danny, for calling that board to my attention.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Danny Miller]

On 10/23/2016 4:28 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>
>> No biggie, on my CNC (not an SBC) I just added a wifi USB already.
>>
>> Mesa 7i92 are totally available from the mfg:
>>
>> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=30
>> 2
> Not according to that web page 2 hours ago. Out of stock. But this link
> say 170 on the shelf? Left hand, please call right hand. :)  Either that
> or the boat finally docked, I understand they've got labor problems at
> some west side ports.

The DB25 FEMALE (no suffix) version is out of stock.
They have plenty of "H" (two 26pin locking DIL) and "M" (DB25 male).

Personally I recommend the "H".  It's locking.  I'm not gonna use a 
remade round cable, the board's right there with the controller so I'd 
make up an IDC ribbon cable for that anyways.

Me, I built a motherboard that provided power, broke out into individual 
DIL 10-pins for the AM882 drives, and broke out pins for homing switches 
etc.

>
>> There are 3 versions which change the port on the end: male DB25,
>> female DB25, male 26-pin DIL header.  But the one in the middle is
>> always a male DIL26 header.
> And the 7i92M means its a male db25 on the end?
Yep!
>
 Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit?

[Klemen Živkovič]

Today I made first tests with pipe actually clamped in machine with
Machinekit running on beaglebone for plasma pipe cutter I planned to
develop.

I was able to do UI with machinetalk interface to reach for linuxcnc
functionality that was needed.
Machinetalk allows you to move UI on PC instead having it on linux server -
part of 3d interface seen on video below.

If you are interested to see little shaky video checkout:
https://youtu.be/MPE4uVrcRAk

Hypertherm Plasma 45XP & THC is still not integrated, but I plan to do that
in comming months.

regards Klemen



On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 9:25 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday 23 October 2016 15:02:00 bari wrote:
>
> > Gene,
> >
> > IO is via FPGA over Ethernet since it has an integrated Ethernet
> > controller in the ARM SOC vs being Ethernet over USB like the Rpi and
> > many other ARM boards. Look at the Mesa 7i92.
>
> Currently Out of Stock at both N.A. dealers. So its a solution I can't
> obtain, in a useable time frame, anyway.
>
> Another thought is what happens to the real time of an encoder edge going
> by when its subjected to the ethernet packet latencies?
>
> I believe some of what I think is bearing noise in my G0704, sounds like
> a bearing trying to eat its ball cage, is not that, but its partially
> the noise created by the fast response of the PID causing the motor to
> slam back and forth in the backlash of the gears.  This noise is much
> worse when the backgear is in high gear, and reduces under loading.
>
> Thanks Bari.
>
> > HD can be over USB.
> >
> > On 10/22/2016 03:30 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Saturday 22 October 2016 14:44:47 bari wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Bari, sounds like something that could replace this huge Dell I
> > > am about 1/2 configured to run it with allready.  And that could fit
> > > in the driver box I am using, leaving only the VFD, keyboard, mouse
> > > & monitor to worry about.
> > >
> > > Whats it need to run steppers as well as a Mesa 5i25 can?
> > >
> > > Obviously some sort of a cape/bob sits on the 40 pin header to do
> > > all that.  Who has that & how much money?
> > >
> > >> The Orange pi is ~$15 and uses the Allwinner H3.
> > >>
> > >> http://www.orangepi.org/orangepione/
> > >> http://linux-sunxi.org/H3
> > >> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orange-Pi-PC-linux-and-android-mini
> > >>-PC -Beyond-Raspberry-Pi-2/32448079125.html
> > >>
> > >> It has native Ethernet (not over USB) so it can use hm2_eth with
> > >> Mesa 7i92 FPGA.
> > >>
> > >> Axis runs pretty smoothly at HD res using llvmpipe since it has 4
> > >> cores.
> > >>
> > >> Runs without anything TI or Machinekit.
> > >>
> > >> -Bari
> > >
> > > Thanks Bari.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Chris Albertson]

They do sell the Rasberry Pi with a small touch screen.   But the cost is
higher.

The way to do a graphical interface now on a new project is to assume the
user already owns a phone of tablet and access that phone of tablet over
WiFi  As an example look how you'd set up a new IP security camera.  The
$100 camera has an internal web server and you log into the camera web page
and click on some web forms.   No reason not to set up a CNC tool the same
way.

The cost of computers has pretty much gone to nearly free.   Right now on
my desk is an ARM M3 board thais is about 0.6 by 2.0 inches that I bought
for $3.85 with free shipping.  (I can't see how they can ship it for $3.85
but that is what I pay for these)

This little ARM M3 will be a servo motor controller.  It will accept
commands for position,velocity over a serial I2C bus and then control an
H-bridge and PWM to drive a couple motors.  I'm also adding a status
display using  a tiny 1 inch LCD screen.   I can't ask for a o lower price
as $4 shipped is close enough to free that it does not matter.  I'm
building a digital motor controller and even this M3 is over kill

The Orange Pi is an order of magnitude more compute power for still a price
so close to free that it may as well be free.

Your entire concept for computer control of equipment changes when
computers cost $9 and are the size of a credit card or with the M0, four
computers fit on my thumb nail and cost a buck each.   You (as a designer)
no longer have to think of "The Computer" and you can start using computers
like they were Lego Blocks.You start paling the computers INSIDE the
device that is being controlled.  inside the camera, inside the stepper
motor, indie the cable's d-shell inside the sensor and so on.  So now my
mid-level robot controls only has to tell the motor to "drive 1.4 metrer at
0.25 meter per second squared acceleration and all me when you are done".
 Same with a camera, I can ask it for "what's new" rather then just getting
a blast of real time image data.

Same for the main computer that does motion planning.  Rather then generate
one plan and test it and then another and another.   Given enough CPU cores
I can evaluate thousands of plans simultaneously


I wonder why they don't sell similar boards with small LCD touchscreens.
> There are 5" smartphones for $50, now I would like it without SIM and
> battery but with HDMI, LAN etc.

-- 

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Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 October 2016 16:25:46 Danny Miller wrote:

> I use the Mesa 7i92.  It is EXCELLENT.  I prefer it over PCI solutions
> just because I can keep the controller separate from the PC without a
> lot of wiring.
>
So, all I have to is find one.

> It works fine with my 1ms servo-thread.  I have no reason to see if it
> goes further.  It offloads all the pulse generation for the steppers
> so it doesn't require a lot of the computer.  The recommended setup
> uses a PLL which compensates for jitter down the ethernet link, it's
> probably overkill but it's just a HAL component to add.
>
> I don't know what other issue I'd run into with latency in a stepper
> system.  I had no problem at all.  I don't know how it'd go with servo
> encoders.

I've encoder feedback to the spindle on 2 of my machines now. It can be a 
cast iron kitty to make it work, encoder jitters drive the PID out of 
its skull at times. I can only use about .5% of the Pgain the steppers 
use.  And thats after I rigged up some hal trickery to average the 
timeing of the last 4 encoder edges going by which divides the velocity 
noise by a /4 factor.

I don't think that lag in the turnaround for a rigid tap is helped by 
that as I seem to be getting looser taps than normal since I put that 
code in.

> I discovered it does NOT work with all ethernet ports, my MB had a
> very odd onboard ethernet chipset and LinuxCNC didn't start at all.  
> Adding a PCI ethernet card was an easy answer for me, but not for
> someone  with that SBC with no PCI, but I doubt that will come up.
>
> It does require you to dedicate that ethernet port.  No routers. Since
> that SBC has only one ethernet port, your network access would have to
> be through USB.

Thats a potential full stop. But on a board with two ports, one could be 
dedicated to lcnc, while the other was checking for updates.  If no 
routers, how about switches/hubs and an eth0:1 setup? Sharing that port 
IOW.

> No biggie, on my CNC (not an SBC) I just added a wifi USB already.
>
> Mesa 7i92 are totally available from the mfg:
>
> http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=30
>2

Not according to that web page 2 hours ago. Out of stock. But this link 
say 170 on the shelf? Left hand, please call right hand. :)  Either that 
or the boat finally docked, I understand they've got labor problems at 
some west side ports.

> There are 3 versions which change the port on the end: male DB25,
> female DB25, male 26-pin DIL header.  But the one in the middle is
> always a male DIL26 header.

And the 7i92M means its a male db25 on the end?

> Danny
>
> On 10/23/2016 2:07 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 23 October 2016 13:54:59 Dave Cole wrote:
> >> Connect to a Mesa ethernet controller?
> >>
> >> Dave
> >
> > What about the latency?  Can it match the 1 to 4 kilohertz
> > servo-thread loop I have used?
> >
> > It's no help that the 7i92 is out of stock on both Peters and Johns
> > web pages.  How long to source one of those critters?
> >
> > Or that what I think would be the next step up, as in skipping the
> > db25 breakouts in favor of direct i/o is the 7i76E @ $200.
> >
> > So I guess I am stuck, drooling over the possibilities, but still
> > using an old Dell I paid $75 for, with a single core P4 that burns
> > 90 watts, and a 5i25, in a box that occupy's at least a cubic foot
> > to run this lathe. There IS a limit to the relatively clean space
> > under the drawers in this Sheldon cabinet, so the motor driver box I
> > am building up from an old rusty box will have to live out where
> > swarf will collect on top of it.
> >
> > I do like the ethernetted idea because theres little effect to
> > moving the computer to a cleaner location, a most desirable
> > condition.  Sigh.  And not helped that my giddyup got up and left me
> > needing another nap this morning. But I think I can go cobble up
> > some hole locations and get this stuff mounted yet today.
> >
> >> On 10/23/2016 1:46 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >>> On Sunday 23 October 2016 12:02:58 Roland Jollivet wrote:
>  By the way, while you guys are discussing SBC's, there's also the
>  UP board  too, which is x86.
> 
>  Here's a fun video 
>  on it too. Worth looking at...
> >>>
> >>> Nice board, pricy tho at a 90 buck starting point. And no pci
> >>> buss, so nothing from pico or mesa is usable. Whats available to
> >>> plug onto the 40 pin pi header that can duplicate a mesa anything
> >>> i/o functionality?
> >>>
> >>> C'mon crickets, speak up.  I looked thru that blog post link to
> >>> see what might be found only to see that decently capable boards
> >>> for the BBB like the k9 have been discontinued for lack of
> >>> interest.
> >>>
> >>> This is not how we move linuxcnc to the next generation hardware.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> >>
> >> ---
> >>--- 

Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Danny Miller]

I use the Mesa 7i92.  It is EXCELLENT.  I prefer it over PCI solutions 
just because I can keep the controller separate from the PC without a 
lot of wiring.

It works fine with my 1ms servo-thread.  I have no reason to see if it 
goes further.  It offloads all the pulse generation for the steppers so 
it doesn't require a lot of the computer.  The recommended setup uses a 
PLL which compensates for jitter down the ethernet link, it's probably 
overkill but it's just a HAL component to add.

I don't know what other issue I'd run into with latency in a stepper 
system.  I had no problem at all.  I don't know how it'd go with servo 
encoders.

I discovered it does NOT work with all ethernet ports, my MB had a very 
odd onboard ethernet chipset and LinuxCNC didn't start at all.   Adding 
a PCI ethernet card was an easy answer for me, but not for someone  with 
that SBC with no PCI, but I doubt that will come up.

It does require you to dedicate that ethernet port.  No routers. Since 
that SBC has only one ethernet port, your network access would have to 
be through USB.

No biggie, on my CNC (not an SBC) I just added a wifi USB already.

Mesa 7i92 are totally available from the mfg:

http://store.mesanet.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=302

There are 3 versions which change the port on the end: male DB25, female 
DB25, male 26-pin DIL header.  But the one in the middle is always a 
male DIL26 header.

Danny


On 10/23/2016 2:07 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 23 October 2016 13:54:59 Dave Cole wrote:
>
>> Connect to a Mesa ethernet controller?
>>
>> Dave
> What about the latency?  Can it match the 1 to 4 kilohertz servo-thread
> loop I have used?
>
> It's no help that the 7i92 is out of stock on both Peters and Johns web
> pages.  How long to source one of those critters?
>
> Or that what I think would be the next step up, as in skipping the db25
> breakouts in favor of direct i/o is the 7i76E @ $200.
>
> So I guess I am stuck, drooling over the possibilities, but still using
> an old Dell I paid $75 for, with a single core P4 that burns 90 watts,
> and a 5i25, in a box that occupy's at least a cubic foot to run this
> lathe. There IS a limit to the relatively clean space under the drawers
> in this Sheldon cabinet, so the motor driver box I am building up from
> an old rusty box will have to live out where swarf will collect on top
> of it.
>
> I do like the ethernetted idea because theres little effect to moving the
> computer to a cleaner location, a most desirable condition.  Sigh.  And
> not helped that my giddyup got up and left me needing another nap this
> morning. But I think I can go cobble up some hole locations and get this
> stuff mounted yet today.
>
>> On 10/23/2016 1:46 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> On Sunday 23 October 2016 12:02:58 Roland Jollivet wrote:
 By the way, while you guys are discussing SBC's, there's also the
 UP board  too, which is x86.

 Here's a fun video  on
 it too. Worth looking at...
>>> Nice board, pricy tho at a 90 buck starting point. And no pci buss,
>>> so nothing from pico or mesa is usable. Whats available to plug onto
>>> the 40 pin pi header that can duplicate a mesa anything i/o
>>> functionality?
>>>
>>> C'mon crickets, speak up.  I looked thru that blog post link to see
>>> what might be found only to see that decently capable boards for the
>>> BBB like the k9 have been discontinued for lack of interest.
>>>
>>> This is not how we move linuxcnc to the next generation hardware.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>> --
>>  Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
>> most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
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>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit?

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 October 2016 15:02:00 bari wrote:

> Gene,
>
> IO is via FPGA over Ethernet since it has an integrated Ethernet
> controller in the ARM SOC vs being Ethernet over USB like the Rpi and
> many other ARM boards. Look at the Mesa 7i92.

Currently Out of Stock at both N.A. dealers. So its a solution I can't 
obtain, in a useable time frame, anyway.

Another thought is what happens to the real time of an encoder edge going 
by when its subjected to the ethernet packet latencies?

I believe some of what I think is bearing noise in my G0704, sounds like 
a bearing trying to eat its ball cage, is not that, but its partially 
the noise created by the fast response of the PID causing the motor to 
slam back and forth in the backlash of the gears.  This noise is much 
worse when the backgear is in high gear, and reduces under loading.

Thanks Bari.

> HD can be over USB.
>
> On 10/22/2016 03:30 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 22 October 2016 14:44:47 bari wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bari, sounds like something that could replace this huge Dell I
> > am about 1/2 configured to run it with allready.  And that could fit
> > in the driver box I am using, leaving only the VFD, keyboard, mouse
> > & monitor to worry about.
> >
> > Whats it need to run steppers as well as a Mesa 5i25 can?
> >
> > Obviously some sort of a cape/bob sits on the 40 pin header to do
> > all that.  Who has that & how much money?
> >
> >> The Orange pi is ~$15 and uses the Allwinner H3.
> >>
> >> http://www.orangepi.org/orangepione/
> >> http://linux-sunxi.org/H3
> >> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orange-Pi-PC-linux-and-android-mini
> >>-PC -Beyond-Raspberry-Pi-2/32448079125.html
> >>
> >> It has native Ethernet (not over USB) so it can use hm2_eth with
> >> Mesa 7i92 FPGA.
> >>
> >> Axis runs pretty smoothly at HD res using llvmpipe since it has 4
> >> cores.
> >>
> >> Runs without anything TI or Machinekit.
> >>
> >> -Bari
> >
> > Thanks Bari.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] Re. AMD (64 bit) stable LinuxCNC Debian with CNC in Menu - download link (Sebastian Kuzminsky)

[Jeffrey Reed]

Dear Mr. Kuzminsky,
Thank you for your perfect instructions.  The problem was exactly as you
suggested.  I am running the jitter test as I compose this response.

This was my first question to the forum and I am not sure I handled the
Topic information correctly, in response to your reply.  Please correct me
if this is not appropriate.

Again, Thank you for your help.

Jeff Reed
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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 October 2016 13:54:59 Dave Cole wrote:

> Connect to a Mesa ethernet controller?
>
> Dave

What about the latency?  Can it match the 1 to 4 kilohertz servo-thread 
loop I have used?

It's no help that the 7i92 is out of stock on both Peters and Johns web 
pages.  How long to source one of those critters?

Or that what I think would be the next step up, as in skipping the db25 
breakouts in favor of direct i/o is the 7i76E @ $200.

So I guess I am stuck, drooling over the possibilities, but still using 
an old Dell I paid $75 for, with a single core P4 that burns 90 watts, 
and a 5i25, in a box that occupy's at least a cubic foot to run this 
lathe. There IS a limit to the relatively clean space under the drawers 
in this Sheldon cabinet, so the motor driver box I am building up from 
an old rusty box will have to live out where swarf will collect on top 
of it.

I do like the ethernetted idea because theres little effect to moving the 
computer to a cleaner location, a most desirable condition.  Sigh.  And 
not helped that my giddyup got up and left me needing another nap this 
morning. But I think I can go cobble up some hole locations and get this 
stuff mounted yet today.

> On 10/23/2016 1:46 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 23 October 2016 12:02:58 Roland Jollivet wrote:
> >> By the way, while you guys are discussing SBC's, there's also the
> >> UP board  too, which is x86.
> >>
> >> Here's a fun video  on
> >> it too. Worth looking at...
> >
> > Nice board, pricy tho at a 90 buck starting point. And no pci buss,
> > so nothing from pico or mesa is usable. Whats available to plug onto
> > the 40 pin pi header that can duplicate a mesa anything i/o
> > functionality?
> >
> > C'mon crickets, speak up.  I looked thru that blog post link to see
> > what might be found only to see that decently capable boards for the
> > BBB like the k9 have been discontinued for lack of interest.
> >
> > This is not how we move linuxcnc to the next generation hardware.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[bari]

It has a GPU with HDMI.

Ethernet is integrated for HM2_eth.

HD can be over USB.

The trick is building the rt kernel and llvmpipe.

On 10/23/2016 08:40 AM, TJoseph Powderly wrote:
> hiya, did you pick the 'one' as the best of the litter?


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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit?

[bari]

Gene,

IO is via FPGA over Ethernet since it has an integrated Ethernet 
controller in the ARM SOC vs being Ethernet over USB like the Rpi and 
many other ARM boards. Look at the Mesa 7i92.

HD can be over USB.

On 10/22/2016 03:30 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 22 October 2016 14:44:47 bari wrote:
>
> Hi Bari, sounds like something that could replace this huge Dell I am
> about 1/2 configured to run it with allready.  And that could fit in the
> driver box I am using, leaving only the VFD, keyboard, mouse & monitor
> to worry about.
>
> Whats it need to run steppers as well as a Mesa 5i25 can?
>
> Obviously some sort of a cape/bob sits on the 40 pin header to do all
> that.  Who has that & how much money?
>
>> The Orange pi is ~$15 and uses the Allwinner H3.
>>
>> http://www.orangepi.org/orangepione/
>> http://linux-sunxi.org/H3
>> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orange-Pi-PC-linux-and-android-mini-PC
>> -Beyond-Raspberry-Pi-2/32448079125.html
>>
>> It has native Ethernet (not over USB) so it can use hm2_eth with Mesa
>> 7i92 FPGA.
>>
>> Axis runs pretty smoothly at HD res using llvmpipe since it has 4
>> cores.
>>
>> Runs without anything TI or Machinekit.
>>
>> -Bari
> Thanks Bari.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] glue question?

[Chris Albertson]

Cured in the bottle?   Some how it got opened before you got it.   It cures
with contact with water vapor in the air

The other polyurethane that is very good is made by 3M and called "3M 5200"
  It is sold as a marine adhesive.

One thing you can do with this 5200 is install a through hole sensor on a
boat that is in sea water.  I drilled a hole with a hole saw and a diver
applies 3M 5200 and the sensor from the outside then I tighten the nut
down.   (Yes a LOT of sea water gets in.) The glue does it's job and the
fitting can never be removed.  The stuff cures to be the same kind of
plastic used on modern inline sake and skateboard wheels.

I good standard test of a glue is to try and glue a 1" steel ball bearing
to a steel plate.  Then measure the force it takes on the side of the ball
to break the bond.  with  5200 you will be using a hydraulic press   The
cured glue is hard to hack-saw. The trick is to use thin music wire and try
to slice the joint with the wire.

Gorilla glue is as sticky but cures to a kind of foam and you can saw the
foam or cut it with a knife or wood chisel.  5200 cuts too but it is just
like trying to cut a skateboard wheel, not easy.


All that said, it is rare to need such a string bond and 5200 costs $25 per
tube and takes 7 days to cure.  I used hot glue last time I wanted to mount
a power supply inside a metal box along with some other electrics.I can
take it apart later with a small pry bar but now I can turn it upside down
a shake it and it stays in place.

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 5:55 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Saturday 22 October 2016 20:21:24 albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >  Two types of glue I can think of one is gorilla glue the stuff is a
> > polyurethane that expands and sticks to anything the other is hot glue
> > which works surprisingly well for mounting electronic parts
> >
> I bought some of a newer gorilla that claimed it doesn't expand so much a
> month ago, but it had cured in the bottle when I tried to open it, so
> I've still no experience with it.  It did sound promising though.
>
> Thanks Chris.
> > > On Oct 22, 2016, at 3:33 PM, Dave Cole 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > I think there is some super high end glue that 3M makes that will
> > > glue HDPE, but most people don't bother trying to glue it.
> > > I would consider stapling velcro to the HDPE strips.I've had
> > > very good luck using the industrial strength velcro that 3M sells,
> > > not the Velcro brand.  I've mounted power supplies with it inside
> > > control cabinets that could not be drilled and years later it is
> > > still working fine.  No failures.
> > > But be careful, the stuff they show holding Fire Extinguishers to
> > > the wall can really do that!   Don't plan on separating that without
> > > really yanking on it.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >> On 10/22/2016 5:47 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > >> Greetings all;
> > >>
> > >> I am in the process of re-arranging the peripheral layout on the
> > >> inside face of the box that holds the BoB's, opto's etc on the
> > >> boxes swinging door plus a couple power supplies and stepper
> > >> drivers in the box proper.
> > >>
> > >> As opposed to drilling umpty holes in this cover, I've sawn out
> > >> some strips of HDPE, and screwed the boards to those.  Its
> > >> nominally 1/2" thick and I have not, but could, sand the face to be
> > >> glued.
> > >>
> > >> So now I need to fix them to the inside face of this boxes door,
> > >> and plug up the holes I have drilled already in a probably vain
> > >> attempt to exclude swarf. Except for some conduit holes in the
> > >> bottom, its gasketed and liquid tight.  So I need a glue that will
> > >> stick to this HDPE.  G0-2 or Goop is one possibility, but is there
> > >> something that will get an even better grip on that stuff?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > >
> > > 
> > >-- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > > most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's
> > most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
> 
> --
> Check

Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Dave Cole]

Connect to a Mesa ethernet controller?

Dave

On 10/23/2016 1:46 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 23 October 2016 12:02:58 Roland Jollivet wrote:
>
>> By the way, while you guys are discussing SBC's, there's also the UP
>> board  too, which is x86.
>>
>> Here's a fun video  on it
>> too. Worth looking at...
> Nice board, pricy tho at a 90 buck starting point. And no pci buss, so
> nothing from pico or mesa is usable. Whats available to plug onto the 40
> pin pi header that can duplicate a mesa anything i/o functionality?
>
> C'mon crickets, speak up.  I looked thru that blog post link to see what
> might be found only to see that decently capable boards for the BBB like
> the k9 have been discontinued for lack of interest.
>
> This is not how we move linuxcnc to the next generation hardware.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 October 2016 12:02:58 Roland Jollivet wrote:

> By the way, while you guys are discussing SBC's, there's also the UP
> board  too, which is x86.
>
> Here's a fun video  on it
> too. Worth looking at...

Nice board, pricy tho at a 90 buck starting point. And no pci buss, so 
nothing from pico or mesa is usable. Whats available to plug onto the 40 
pin pi header that can duplicate a mesa anything i/o functionality?

C'mon crickets, speak up.  I looked thru that blog post link to see what 
might be found only to see that decently capable boards for the BBB like 
the k9 have been discontinued for lack of interest.

This is not how we move linuxcnc to the next generation hardware.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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[Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Roland Jollivet]

By the way, while you guys are discussing SBC's, there's also the UP board
 too, which is x86.

Here's a fun video  on it too.
Worth looking at...






On 23 October 2016 at 17:09, Dave Cole  wrote:

> Good to know.. I missed that but didn't order any yet.
>
> Dave
>
> On 10/23/2016 4:43 AM, Andrew wrote:
> > Note that there are two versions of Orange Pi: PC (1GB RAM, more
> > connectors) for $15 and One (512MB and less connectors) for $10.
> > I think I'd prefer 1GB. I'd buy immediately but I already have a spare
> Pi 2
> > )
> > Anyways, incredible prices!
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > 2016-10-23 1:06 GMT+03:00 Dave Cole :
> >
> >> I went to the orangepi.org page and clicked on sellers and it can be
> >> bought for $9.99!  Wow.. crazy! 8-)
> >> The cords will cost more than the computer!
> >> I think I need to raid the spare change jar and buy a few computers.
> >> Dave
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/22/2016 3:52 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> >>> Seems like a cheap good LinuxCNC computer, maybe a split between user
> >> interface and real time is not needed. If I get it correct software is
> >> stored in flash and then I guess it also boot fast.
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 13:44:47 -0500
> >>> bari  wrote:
> >>>
>  The Orange pi is ~$15 and uses the Allwinner H3.
> 
>  http://www.orangepi.org/orangepione/
>  http://linux-sunxi.org/H3
>  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orange-Pi-PC-linux-and-
> >> android-mini-PC-Beyond-Raspberry-Pi-2/32448079125.html
>  It has native Ethernet (not over USB) so it can use hm2_eth with Mesa
>  7i92 FPGA.
> 
>  Axis runs pretty smoothly at HD res using llvmpipe since it has 4
> cores.
> 
>  Runs without anything TI or Machinekit.
> 
>  -Bari
> 
>  On 10/19/2016 11:26 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> >> ...
> >> While I use many BeagleBones to control various machines exactly the
> >> way you describe (using an HDMI monitor and KB/Mouse connected to
> the
> >> BBB), it is not nearly the same user experience as running on an x86
> >> PC.  Everything is noticeably slower on the BBB, and graphics
> >> performance is particularly horrid (to the point that the 3D preview
> >> display is essentially unusable).
> > Sound like the real time stuff on Raspberry or BBB and an ordinary
> >> computer for user interface is the way to go for all systems with an
> >> ordinary user interface.
> > 
> >> --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>  
> >> --
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>  engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> >>> 
> >> --
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> >>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >> 
> >> --
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> >> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> >>
> > 
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-

Re: [Emc-users] AMD (64 bit) stable LinuxCNC Debian with CNC in Menu - download link

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On 10/23/2016 09:32 AM, Jeffrey Reed wrote:
> Hi to All,
> I am trying get an old 64 bit Compac Persario running with LinuxCNC.
> I believe I have successfully completed every item in step 7.1 in this link
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html
> except step 10.
> Failure to install message---
> Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
> requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
> distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
> or been moved out of Incoming.
> The following information may help to resolve the situation:
>
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>  linuxcnc-uspace : Depends: libboost-python1.55.0 but it is not installable
>Depends: libc6 (>= 2.15) but 2.13-38+deb7u11 is to be
> installed
>Depends: libfontconfig1 (>= 2.11) but 2.9.0-7.1+deb7u1
> is to be installed
>Depends: libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0) but it is not
> installable
>Depends: libpangocairo-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0) but it is not
> installable
>Depends: libpangoft2-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0) but it is not
> installable
>Depends: libtk8.6 (>= 8.6.0) but it is not installable
>Depends: libudev1 (>= 183) but it is not installable
>Depends: tcl8.6 but it is not installable
>Depends: tk8.6 but it is not installable
>Depends: python:any (>= 2.7.5-5~) but it is not
> installable
> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.

It looks like you deviated from the instructions in step 7.1.8.

It looks like you're trying to install linuxcnc-uspace from Jessie onto 
a Wheezy machine.  You can check if this is the problem by looking for 
the linuxcnc line(s) in /etc/apt/sources.list, it should be looking in 
wheezy (like 7.1.8 says), not in jessie.


> I have explored Debian downloads but they do not contain the Package -
> LinuxCNC.

The linuxcnc packages are not (yet) part of the Debian distribution, 
instead we provide our own debian package archive with the linuxcnc 
packages.  That's what step 7.1.7 and 7.1.8 are about.


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Dave Cole]

Good to know.. I missed that but didn't order any yet.

Dave

On 10/23/2016 4:43 AM, Andrew wrote:
> Note that there are two versions of Orange Pi: PC (1GB RAM, more
> connectors) for $15 and One (512MB and less connectors) for $10.
> I think I'd prefer 1GB. I'd buy immediately but I already have a spare Pi 2
> )
> Anyways, incredible prices!
>
> Andrew
>
> 2016-10-23 1:06 GMT+03:00 Dave Cole :
>
>> I went to the orangepi.org page and clicked on sellers and it can be
>> bought for $9.99!  Wow.. crazy! 8-)
>> The cords will cost more than the computer!
>> I think I need to raid the spare change jar and buy a few computers.
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> On 10/22/2016 3:52 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>>> Seems like a cheap good LinuxCNC computer, maybe a split between user
>> interface and real time is not needed. If I get it correct software is
>> stored in flash and then I guess it also boot fast.
>>>
>>> On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 13:44:47 -0500
>>> bari  wrote:
>>>
 The Orange pi is ~$15 and uses the Allwinner H3.

 http://www.orangepi.org/orangepione/
 http://linux-sunxi.org/H3
 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orange-Pi-PC-linux-and-
>> android-mini-PC-Beyond-Raspberry-Pi-2/32448079125.html
 It has native Ethernet (not over USB) so it can use hm2_eth with Mesa
 7i92 FPGA.

 Axis runs pretty smoothly at HD res using llvmpipe since it has 4 cores.

 Runs without anything TI or Machinekit.

 -Bari

 On 10/19/2016 11:26 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>> ...
>> While I use many BeagleBones to control various machines exactly the
>> way you describe (using an HDMI monitor and KB/Mouse connected to the
>> BBB), it is not nearly the same user experience as running on an x86
>> PC.  Everything is noticeably slower on the BBB, and graphics
>> performance is particularly horrid (to the point that the 3D preview
>> display is essentially unusable).
> Sound like the real time stuff on Raspberry or BBB and an ordinary
>> computer for user interface is the way to go for all systems with an
>> ordinary user interface.
> 
>> --
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> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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 ___
 Emc-users mailing list
 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>> 
>> --
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[Emc-users] AMD (64 bit) stable LinuxCNC Debian with CNC in Menu - download link

[Jeffrey Reed]

Hi to All,
I am trying get an old 64 bit Compac Persario running with LinuxCNC.
I believe I have successfully completed every item in step 7.1 in this link
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/getting-started/getting-linuxcnc.html
except step 10.
Failure to install message---
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 linuxcnc-uspace : Depends: libboost-python1.55.0 but it is not installable
   Depends: libc6 (>= 2.15) but 2.13-38+deb7u11 is to be
installed
   Depends: libfontconfig1 (>= 2.11) but 2.9.0-7.1+deb7u1
is to be installed
   Depends: libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0) but it is not
installable
   Depends: libpangocairo-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0) but it is not
installable
   Depends: libpangoft2-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0) but it is not
installable
   Depends: libtk8.6 (>= 8.6.0) but it is not installable
   Depends: libudev1 (>= 183) but it is not installable
   Depends: tcl8.6 but it is not installable
   Depends: tk8.6 but it is not installable
   Depends: python:any (>= 2.7.5-5~) but it is not
installable
E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
--
I have explored Debian downloads but they do not contain the Package -
LinuxCNC.

uname -v provides this information #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 3.2.82-1

I don't know if I am doing something wrong or the documentation is outdated?

Thank you in advance.
Jeff Reed
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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[John Alexander Stewart]

Peter;

On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 9:27 AM, Peter Blodow  wrote:

> when I started listening to this list, I was intrigued by the
> possibilties of using ordinary "left-over" desk top PCs (which were
> getting very cheap at the time) to do extraordinary work with ordinary
> out-of-time machinery. This wonderful idea met my desires to make ends
> meet and, what's more, at low cost. Now, LinuxCNC has gone commercial,
> and using "dedicated", purpose-made computers doesn't appeal much to me
> - everybody makes dedicated computers and builds modern gadgets with
> them. It has lost lots of charms by now.
>

If I attach an older PC, or Mini-ITX board to the side of a machine
cabinet, is that ok or is it "dedicated" in your eyes?

I kind of like attaching the computers to my machines - they are all on
casters, so I can roll them around if/when I want to.

John.
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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[andy pugh]

On 23 October 2016 at 14:27, Peter Blodow  wrote:
> Now, LinuxCNC has gone commercial,
> and using "dedicated", purpose-made computers doesn't appeal much to me

What on earth do you mean by this?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit?

[TJoseph Powderly]

for orange pi et al
7" lcd with touch screen
and some notes on what the plus2 lacks
in this discussion:

http://www.orangepi.org/orangepibbsen/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=192&extra=&page=3


tjtr33 tomp


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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[TJoseph Powderly]

Andrew
yes,many variants available, many bundles available

check closely the sata specs, its not so hot,

i liked the onboard wifi but see warnings about linux and the wifi chip

so, maybe i try the 9$ 'one' and the 'plus2' at 49$ still cheap :-)

damn i just looked into the drawer fulla dinosaur controller boards :-(

anybody wannabuy some ? :-p

bari...
hiya, did you pick the 'one' as the best of the litter?

tomp tjtr33


On 10/23/16 17:35, Andrew wrote:
> Right, now I see that they have a lot of models. Top model Plus 2 even
> supports SATA, but it's $49 and needs a special $4 SATA cable.
>
> I wonder why they don't sell similar boards with small LCD touchscreens.
> There are 5" smartphones for $50, now I would like it without SIM and
> battery but with HDMI, LAN etc.
>
> Andrew
>
> 2016-10-23 12:58 GMT+03:00 Gregg Eshelman :
>
>> Looks like 4 or 5 models on the website. If one can handle a touchscreen,
>> and can somehow be interfaced to the thermostats etc. in a cooktop and
>> oven, I'd be interested in modifying and old GE P7 range to replace the
>> mechanical clock/timer on the front with an LCD. I'd also replace the
>> burner control knobs with flat things that have an LED ring to indicate
>> their settings, operated via the touchscreen.
>>
>>
>>From: Andrew 
>>   To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
>>   Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:43 AM
>>   Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer
>>
>> Note that there are two versions of Orange Pi: PC (1GB RAM, more
>> connectors) for $15 and One (512MB and less connectors) for $10.
>> I think I'd prefer 1GB. I'd buy immediately but I already have a spare Pi 2
>> )
>> Anyways, incredible prices!
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> 2016-10-23 1:06 GMT+03:00 Dave Cole :
>>
>>> I went to the orangepi.org page and clicked on sellers and it can be
>>> bought for $9.99!  Wow.. crazy! 8-)
>>> The cords will cost more than the computer!
>>> I think I need to raid the spare change jar and buy a few computers.
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/22/2016 3:52 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
 Seems like a cheap good LinuxCNC computer, maybe a split between user
>>> interface and real time is not needed. If I get it correct software is
>>> stored in flash and then I guess it also boot fast.

 On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 13:44:47 -0500
 bari  wrote:

> The Orange pi is ~$15 and uses the Allwinner H3.
>
> http://www.orangepi.org/orangepione/
> http://linux-sunxi.org/H3
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orange-Pi-PC-linux-and-
>>> android-mini-PC-Beyond-Raspberry-Pi-2/32448079125.html
> It has native Ethernet (not over USB) so it can use hm2_eth with Mesa
> 7i92 FPGA.
>
> Axis runs pretty smoothly at HD res using llvmpipe since it has 4
>> cores.
> Runs without anything TI or Machinekit.
>
> -Bari
>
> On 10/19/2016 11:26 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>>> ...
>>> While I use many BeagleBones to control various machines exactly the
>>> way you describe (using an HDMI monitor and KB/Mouse connected to
>> the
>>> BBB), it is not nearly the same user experience as running on an x86
>>> PC.  Everything is noticeably slower on the BBB, and graphics
>>> performance is particularly horrid (to the point that the 3D preview
>>> display is essentially unusable).
>> Sound like the real time stuff on Raspberry or BBB and an ordinary
>>> computer for user interface is the way to go for all systems with an
>>> ordinary user interface.
>> 
>>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
>>> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
 
>>> --
 Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
 engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
 ___
 Emc-users mailing list
 Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> _

Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Peter Blodow]

Gene,
when I started listening to this list, I was intrigued by the 
possibilties of using ordinary "left-over" desk top PCs (which were 
getting very cheap at the time) to do extraordinary work with ordinary 
out-of-time machinery. This wonderful idea met my desires to make ends 
meet and, what's more, at low cost. Now, LinuxCNC has gone commercial, 
and using "dedicated", purpose-made computers doesn't appeal much to me 
- everybody makes dedicated computers and builds modern gadgets with 
them. It has lost lots of charms by now.

By the way: at least in this country, polo shirts don't have pockets, 
that's why I dont like them.
Best wishes
Peter


Am 23.10.2016 14:46, schrieb Gene Heskett:
> I am intrigued by the processing power I can put in a polo shirt 
> pocket, but is it useable power for our purposes?


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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 October 2016 04:43:41 Andrew wrote:

> Note that there are two versions of Orange Pi: PC (1GB RAM, more
> connectors) for $15 and One (512MB and less connectors) for $10.
> I think I'd prefer 1GB. I'd buy immediately but I already have a spare
> Pi 2 )
> Anyways, incredible prices!
>
> Andrew
>
Since this has come up again, whats the chances of me being able to run a 
machine like this lathe, useing software step generation? And be doing 
it 2 weeks after it falls out of my mailbox?

Is the buildbot building arm versions of lcnc?

I am intrigued by the processing power I can put in a polo shirt pocket, 
but is it useable power for our purposes?

> 2016-10-23 1:06 GMT+03:00 Dave Cole :
> > I went to the orangepi.org page and clicked on sellers and it can be
> > bought for $9.99!  Wow.. crazy! 8-)
> > The cords will cost more than the computer!
> > I think I need to raid the spare change jar and buy a few computers.
> > Dave
> >
> > On 10/22/2016 3:52 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > > Seems like a cheap good LinuxCNC computer, maybe a split between
> > > user
> >
> > interface and real time is not needed. If I get it correct software
> > is stored in flash and then I guess it also boot fast.
> >
> > > On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 13:44:47 -0500
> > >
> > > bari  wrote:
> > >> The Orange pi is ~$15 and uses the Allwinner H3.
> > >>
> > >> http://www.orangepi.org/orangepione/
> > >> http://linux-sunxi.org/H3
> > >> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orange-Pi-PC-linux-and-
> >
> > android-mini-PC-Beyond-Raspberry-Pi-2/32448079125.html
> >
> > >> It has native Ethernet (not over USB) so it can use hm2_eth with
> > >> Mesa 7i92 FPGA.
> > >>
> > >> Axis runs pretty smoothly at HD res using llvmpipe since it has 4
> > >> cores.
> > >>
> > >> Runs without anything TI or Machinekit.
> > >>
> > >> -Bari
> > >>
> > >> On 10/19/2016 11:26 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> >  ...
> >  While I use many BeagleBones to control various machines
> >  exactly the way you describe (using an HDMI monitor and
> >  KB/Mouse connected to the BBB), it is not nearly the same user
> >  experience as running on an x86 PC.  Everything is noticeably
> >  slower on the BBB, and graphics performance is particularly
> >  horrid (to the point that the 3D preview display is essentially
> >  unusable).
> > >>>
> > >>> Sound like the real time stuff on Raspberry or BBB and an
> > >>> ordinary
> >
> > computer for user interface is the way to go for all systems with an
> > ordinary user interface.
> >
> > >>> 
> >
> > --
> >
> > >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > >>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > >>> ___
> > >>> Emc-users mailing list
> > >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >>
> > >> 
> >
> > --
> >
> > >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > >> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > >> ___
> > >> Emc-users mailing list
> > >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > > 
> >
> > --
> >
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> --
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> most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] glue question?

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 October 2016 04:09:10 Bruce Layne wrote:

> Slightly Off Topic Tip:  I recently discovered Reynold's Non-Stick
> Foil.  It has a chemically coated side that has a dull finish.  I read
> an excerpt from the patent and I wouldn't want any food touching that
> stuff,

And I've used at least 10 or 15 rolls of that stuff on the gas grill, 
each time doing at least a 2 lb package of pork chops and an occasional 
piece of chicken for my bride as she gets tired of pork and I've been 
allergic to chicken for about 30 years. Pork, the other white meat, way 
less cholesterol than beef. Half a ton or more over the last 20 years.  
I'm still here, and in reasonable possession of my faculties. I think, 
heck I can't remember what I had, or if I had breakfast by noon.

> but it's great for disposable nonstick applications in the 
> shop. My initial test shocked me.  The non-stick property apparently
> uses some magic.  It's incredibly non-stick.  I tumbled some cast lead
> bullets in my rotary tumbler with some powder coat powder.  When the
> bullets smash together, the powder coat is embedded into the surface. 
> I then bake the powder covered bullets in a convection oven at 400F
> for ten minutes to melt and reflow the powder coat.  As you might
> imagine, the molten plastic is very sticky.  It stuck to anything it
> touched.  After baking, the powder coated bullets lift off the
> non-stick foil with ease.  I can see lots of use for this stuff in the
> shop.

I can see where that would, because of the mini-fins formed if sitting on 
its base, play hob with the accuracy. Stand them on their noses so the 
bases remain as rumbled and they'll probably shoot noticeably smaller 
groups.

Lining a muffin pan when doing a wheel weight melt in your casting pot to 
make ingots for the next pouring session. Run it thru the dishwasher & 
put it back in the cupboard for the next batch of muffins or cupcakes. 
The RR should peel off the ingot after its cooled, if not, its just 
floating dross to be skimmed off the pot when next plugged in.

Thanks Bruce.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Andrew]

Right, now I see that they have a lot of models. Top model Plus 2 even
supports SATA, but it's $49 and needs a special $4 SATA cable.

I wonder why they don't sell similar boards with small LCD touchscreens.
There are 5" smartphones for $50, now I would like it without SIM and
battery but with HDMI, LAN etc.

Andrew

2016-10-23 12:58 GMT+03:00 Gregg Eshelman :

> Looks like 4 or 5 models on the website. If one can handle a touchscreen,
> and can somehow be interfaced to the thermostats etc. in a cooktop and
> oven, I'd be interested in modifying and old GE P7 range to replace the
> mechanical clock/timer on the front with an LCD. I'd also replace the
> burner control knobs with flat things that have an LED ring to indicate
> their settings, operated via the touchscreen.
>
>
>   From: Andrew 
>  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
>  Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:43 AM
>  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer
>
> Note that there are two versions of Orange Pi: PC (1GB RAM, more
> connectors) for $15 and One (512MB and less connectors) for $10.
> I think I'd prefer 1GB. I'd buy immediately but I already have a spare Pi 2
> )
> Anyways, incredible prices!
>
> Andrew
>
> 2016-10-23 1:06 GMT+03:00 Dave Cole :
>
> > I went to the orangepi.org page and clicked on sellers and it can be
> > bought for $9.99!  Wow.. crazy! 8-)
> > The cords will cost more than the computer!
> > I think I need to raid the spare change jar and buy a few computers.
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > On 10/22/2016 3:52 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > > Seems like a cheap good LinuxCNC computer, maybe a split between user
> > interface and real time is not needed. If I get it correct software is
> > stored in flash and then I guess it also boot fast.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 13:44:47 -0500
> > > bari  wrote:
> > >
> > >> The Orange pi is ~$15 and uses the Allwinner H3.
> > >>
> > >> http://www.orangepi.org/orangepione/
> > >> http://linux-sunxi.org/H3
> > >> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orange-Pi-PC-linux-and-
> > android-mini-PC-Beyond-Raspberry-Pi-2/32448079125.html
> > >>
> > >> It has native Ethernet (not over USB) so it can use hm2_eth with Mesa
> > >> 7i92 FPGA.
> > >>
> > >> Axis runs pretty smoothly at HD res using llvmpipe since it has 4
> cores.
> > >>
> > >> Runs without anything TI or Machinekit.
> > >>
> > >> -Bari
> > >>
> > >> On 10/19/2016 11:26 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> >  ...
> >  While I use many BeagleBones to control various machines exactly the
> >  way you describe (using an HDMI monitor and KB/Mouse connected to
> the
> >  BBB), it is not nearly the same user experience as running on an x86
> >  PC.  Everything is noticeably slower on the BBB, and graphics
> >  performance is particularly horrid (to the point that the 3D preview
> >  display is essentially unusable).
> > >>> Sound like the real time stuff on Raspberry or BBB and an ordinary
> > computer for user interface is the way to go for all systems with an
> > ordinary user interface.
> > >>>
> > >>> 
> > --
> > >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > >>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > >>> ___
> > >>> Emc-users mailing list
> > >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >>
> > >> 
> > --
> > >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > >> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > >> ___
> > >> Emc-users mailing list
> > >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > 
> > --
> > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > > engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > 
> > --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Gregg Eshelman]

Looks like 4 or 5 models on the website. If one can handle a touchscreen, and 
can somehow be interfaced to the thermostats etc. in a cooktop and oven, I'd be 
interested in modifying and old GE P7 range to replace the mechanical 
clock/timer on the front with an LCD. I'd also replace the burner control knobs 
with flat things that have an LED ring to indicate their settings, operated via 
the touchscreen.

 
  From: Andrew 
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)  
 Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:43 AM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer
   
Note that there are two versions of Orange Pi: PC (1GB RAM, more
connectors) for $15 and One (512MB and less connectors) for $10.
I think I'd prefer 1GB. I'd buy immediately but I already have a spare Pi 2
)
Anyways, incredible prices!

Andrew

2016-10-23 1:06 GMT+03:00 Dave Cole :

> I went to the orangepi.org page and clicked on sellers and it can be
> bought for $9.99!  Wow.. crazy! 8-)
> The cords will cost more than the computer!
> I think I need to raid the spare change jar and buy a few computers.
> Dave
>
>
> On 10/22/2016 3:52 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > Seems like a cheap good LinuxCNC computer, maybe a split between user
> interface and real time is not needed. If I get it correct software is
> stored in flash and then I guess it also boot fast.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 13:44:47 -0500
> > bari  wrote:
> >
> >> The Orange pi is ~$15 and uses the Allwinner H3.
> >>
> >> http://www.orangepi.org/orangepione/
> >> http://linux-sunxi.org/H3
> >> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orange-Pi-PC-linux-and-
> android-mini-PC-Beyond-Raspberry-Pi-2/32448079125.html
> >>
> >> It has native Ethernet (not over USB) so it can use hm2_eth with Mesa
> >> 7i92 FPGA.
> >>
> >> Axis runs pretty smoothly at HD res using llvmpipe since it has 4 cores.
> >>
> >> Runs without anything TI or Machinekit.
> >>
> >> -Bari
> >>
> >> On 10/19/2016 11:26 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>  ...
>  While I use many BeagleBones to control various machines exactly the
>  way you describe (using an HDMI monitor and KB/Mouse connected to the
>  BBB), it is not nearly the same user experience as running on an x86
>  PC.  Everything is noticeably slower on the BBB, and graphics
>  performance is particularly horrid (to the point that the 3D preview
>  display is essentially unusable).
> >>> Sound like the real time stuff on Raspberry or BBB and an ordinary
> computer for user interface is the way to go for all systems with an
> ordinary user interface.
> >>>
> >>> 
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] glue question?

[andy pugh]

On 23 October 2016 at 08:48, Danny Miller  wrote:
> Glues and paints just
> don't stick to anything in this category and there's no easy answers
> except "just don't use glue".

I looked into this one time when making super-low force load cells for
measuring tension in skin cultures.
I wanted to bond strain gauges to Delrin flex-arms and basically gave
up when the only adhesive that seemed likely to work suggested that a
plasma treatment of the surface was required.

If you have ever tried to attach and wire-up tiny strain gauges you
will realise that it is hard enough already without having to jump
through hoops with the glue.  I changed material.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] glue question?

[Gregg Eshelman]

A nifty feature of hot glue is 91% isopropyl alcohol will nearly instantly 
release its bond. It'll even get it off fabric. Soak the fabric then pick and 
rub off the glue. 70% will also work but not as quickly.



 
  From: "albertson.ch...@gmail.com" 
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)  
 Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 6:21 PM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] glue question?
   
 Two types of glue I can think of one is gorilla glue the stuff is a 
polyurethane that expands and sticks to anything the other is hot glue which 
works surprisingly well for mounting electronic parts
   
 
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Re: [Emc-users] glue question?

[Gregg Eshelman]

A google for HDPE glue shows several options, at non-crazy prices. A few years 
ago I looked for glues for various slick 'poly' plastics and the options were 
few, hideously expensive and generally came with a suggestion to not put a lot 
of stress on the bond.

 
  From: Bruce Layne 
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)  
 Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 4:22 PM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] glue question?
   
In general, no matter what your glue question is, my glue answer is epoxy.

HDPE is almost as difficult to glue as UHMW or Teflon.  Very low surface 
energy.  I'd recommend cleaning with isopropyl alcohol to remove every 
trace of oil from the surfaces (HPDE and panel), allow it to air dry, 
and then use a liberal amount of RTV silicone.  You seemed to be heading 
in that direction with your Goop musings. Don't be stingy.  Slop it up 
the sides of the HDPE if possible so it has more surface to grip and 
it's protected from shear loads, which are the enemy of adhesives.

I've had good luck mounting stuff like PC power supplies and solid state 
hard drives inside a panel with 3M VHB double sided tape.  VHB = Very 
High Bond.  It's the stuff the auto industry uses to attach automotive 
trim strips to prevent automated car washes from yanking them off.  Even 
then, I try to mount these components on the base of the cabinet so 
gravity is helping the adhesive bond rather than trying to peel the 
device off the vertical side of the panel.  I use powder coated steel 
cabinets, and that's a slick surface that doesn't bond well.  Even 
worse, it's a crinkle finish so there's about half the surface area or 
less for the adhesive bond to grab.
   
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Machinekit? --> LinuxCNC computer

[Andrew]

Note that there are two versions of Orange Pi: PC (1GB RAM, more
connectors) for $15 and One (512MB and less connectors) for $10.
I think I'd prefer 1GB. I'd buy immediately but I already have a spare Pi 2
)
Anyways, incredible prices!

Andrew

2016-10-23 1:06 GMT+03:00 Dave Cole :

> I went to the orangepi.org page and clicked on sellers and it can be
> bought for $9.99!  Wow.. crazy! 8-)
> The cords will cost more than the computer!
> I think I need to raid the spare change jar and buy a few computers.
> Dave
>
>
> On 10/22/2016 3:52 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> > Seems like a cheap good LinuxCNC computer, maybe a split between user
> interface and real time is not needed. If I get it correct software is
> stored in flash and then I guess it also boot fast.
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 22 Oct 2016 13:44:47 -0500
> > bari  wrote:
> >
> >> The Orange pi is ~$15 and uses the Allwinner H3.
> >>
> >> http://www.orangepi.org/orangepione/
> >> http://linux-sunxi.org/H3
> >> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orange-Pi-PC-linux-and-
> android-mini-PC-Beyond-Raspberry-Pi-2/32448079125.html
> >>
> >> It has native Ethernet (not over USB) so it can use hm2_eth with Mesa
> >> 7i92 FPGA.
> >>
> >> Axis runs pretty smoothly at HD res using llvmpipe since it has 4 cores.
> >>
> >> Runs without anything TI or Machinekit.
> >>
> >> -Bari
> >>
> >> On 10/19/2016 11:26 PM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>  ...
>  While I use many BeagleBones to control various machines exactly the
>  way you describe (using an HDMI monitor and KB/Mouse connected to the
>  BBB), it is not nearly the same user experience as running on an x86
>  PC.  Everything is noticeably slower on the BBB, and graphics
>  performance is particularly horrid (to the point that the 3D preview
>  display is essentially unusable).
> >>> Sound like the real time stuff on Raspberry or BBB and an ordinary
> computer for user interface is the way to go for all systems with an
> ordinary user interface.
> >>>
> >>> 
> --
> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> >>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>
> >> 
> --
> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> >> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> >> ___
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> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > 
> --
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] glue question?

[Bruce Layne]

Slightly Off Topic Tip:  I recently discovered Reynold's Non-Stick 
Foil.  It has a chemically coated side that has a dull finish.  I read 
an excerpt from the patent and I wouldn't want any food touching that 
stuff, but it's great for disposable nonstick applications in the shop.  
My initial test shocked me.  The non-stick property apparently uses some 
magic.  It's incredibly non-stick.  I tumbled some cast lead bullets in 
my rotary tumbler with some powder coat powder.  When the bullets smash 
together, the powder coat is embedded into the surface.  I then bake the 
powder covered bullets in a convection oven at 400F for ten minutes to 
melt and reflow the powder coat.  As you might imagine, the molten 
plastic is very sticky.  It stuck to anything it touched.  After baking, 
the powder coated bullets lift off the non-stick foil with ease.  I can 
see lots of use for this stuff in the shop.



On 10/23/2016 03:48 AM, Danny Miller wrote:
> LOW surface energy plastics include nylon, teflon, HDPE, LDPE,
> polypropylene, UHMW, PET, Mylar, and others.  Glues and paints just
> don't stick to anything in this category and there's no easy answers
> except "just don't use glue".  Their hallmark is chemical resistance and
> things NOT sticking to them.


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Re: [Emc-users] glue question?

[Danny Miller]

On 10/23/2016 2:30 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> I considered dropping the face to be joined on my big bench belt sander
> for about long enough to make the surface good and "hairy", but haven't
> actually tried that. About a second maybe as the melting point is
> reached very quickly and I'd want it badly scuffed without melting.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
I know far too much about this, from autism-inspired tests.

Sanding only increases the bondability SOME.  It won't be anywhere near 
enough to be "great", it will never approach the strength of the parent 
material.  Alcohol, thinner, MEK, acetone, etc have no real value except 
in cleaning off residue.  Those work great for ABS or acrylic, they 
partially dissolve the surface leaving it tacky, etched, and the 
polymers are "open".

But both ABS and acrylic are a "high surface energy plastic".  LOW 
surface energy plastics include nylon, teflon, HDPE, LDPE, 
polypropylene, UHMW, PET, Mylar, and others.  Glues and paints just 
don't stick to anything in this category and there's no easy answers 
except "just don't use glue".  Their hallmark is chemical resistance and 
things NOT sticking to them.

Danny





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Re: [Emc-users] glue question?

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 23 October 2016 01:45:58 Danny Miller wrote:

> You CANNOT expect any high-strength bond on HDPE that rivals the
> strength of the material, not with any glue.  Typically it is bolted.
>
I am reaching that conclusion, Danny. I still have enough of those 
mini-wood screws to do that.  8 of them will nicely hold what I have in 
mind ATM.

> E6000 (same an Amazing Goop except uses PERC solvent instead of
> toluene) is the highest strength.
>
> Locktite makes a system for cyanoacrylate where you use a primer to
> activate it and then use this superglue stuff.

I tried that last week on some freshly machined alu, had to make an 
outboard holder for the index ATS667, clamped for about 1/2 hour. A 2 oz 
bump as I was taking it out of the vice and it slid right off that 
faintly colored layer of dried primer. Never penetrated the primer. 
Total waste of 10 bucks for the can of primer/prep spray.

Scraped it clean, drilled & tapped for a 3mm socket head capscrew now 
with a drop of cyanoacrilate in the joint as I was tightening the screw.  
Cleaned with acetone before the s-glue went on. That has survived a trip 
into the milling vice for a part trench to be milled into it.  Needs one 
more 1/16" cut for wire exit. Or the edges dulled and the kynar wire 
formed and gooped in place.  But that stuff is fragile at the solder 
joint, so I am tempted to cut off 3" of ribbon cable & slit it to 3 
conductor pieces. Its crowded under the cover when its in place on the 
spindle, more room below than above. I'll have to machine a pcb by hand 
to serve as an anchoring point for the encoders output cable and it will 
be mounted on this index extension.  Not happened yet tho.

And while there is room under all the gears to run it to an existing 1/4" 
hole in the back face of the bottom half of the spindle housing, its 
also going to be swimming in oil, and I have no clue how oil resistant 
that grey plastic jacket is.  I have several lengths of SS tubing 
commonly used on race cars that this cable could be pulled thru, which 
is another picky to do it way to get this cable out of the spindle 
houseing.

> HDPE can be thermally/ultrasonically welded to more HDPE.  UHMW, that
> doesn't really work because it has a melt index of 0.  If you put it
> in an oven, UHMW becomes a semi-transparent floppy sheet- but it DOES
> NOT melt before it starts decomposing.  Its chains are so long and
> entangled it can't become a liquid and remain UHMW.
>
> Now I do know this.  Society of Creative Anachronism uses UHMW blocks
> on fiberglass arrow shafts for live-combat arrows.  To do this, they
> bore a tight, deep hole that requires compression to seat the shaft
> and use E6000.  The joint never goes out of compression and has a lot
> of surface area in shear alone.  That holds for life, no matter what. 
> But you really won't have that scenario.

No, but that is an interesting use scenario. :)
> Danny
>
> On 10/22/2016 5:22 PM, Bruce Layne wrote:
> > In general, no matter what your glue question is, my glue answer is
> > epoxy.

Epoxy or JBWeld hasn't proven to be the answer in plastic scenarios for 
me.

> > HDPE is almost as difficult to glue as UHMW or Teflon.  Very low
> > surface energy.  I'd recommend cleaning with isopropyl alcohol to
> > remove every trace of oil from the surfaces (HPDE and panel), allow
> > it to air dry, and then use a liberal amount of RTV silicone.  You
> > seemed to be heading in that direction with your Goop musings. Don't
> > be stingy.  Slop it up the sides of the HDPE if possible so it has
> > more surface to grip and it's protected from shear loads, which are
> > the enemy of adhesives.

I considered dropping the face to be joined on my big bench belt sander 
for about long enough to make the surface good and "hairy", but haven't 
actually tried that. About a second maybe as the melting point is 
reached very quickly and I'd want it badly scuffed without melting.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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